Think you’ve got annoying bills? At least you probably got something out of them. According to a recent report, an estimated 225,000 couples who postponed their weddings this year due to the COVID-19 pandemic owe a combined $3.7 billion dollars in loans for weddings that haven’t happened yet.
Billion. With a B.
11% of now-postponed weddings scheduled for this year were funded with a loan. They calculated the jaw-dropping figure by using the average loan amount couples take out for a wedding ($16,500) combined with the roughly 2 million weddings scheduled for 2020. It all adds up to a staggering amount of debt for couples who might not even get the wedding of their dreams at all - but are still stuck paying the bill.
If anything, the staggering numbers seem to be a cautionary tale about taking out a loan to pay for a wedding.
No one could have predicted COVID, but for Ethan Taub, founder of Loanry, it’s a lesson in spending wisely within your means. “You should take financing a wedding using a loan very seriously and we don’t recommend it,” he says. “However, we can take a positive from this situation. It may have highlighted that an exuberant wedding isn’t always the best option. The occasion will be memorable no matter how much you spend on it.”
As If Weddings Weren't Stressful Enough...
Back in May, wedding planning website The Knot announced that 93% of US couples were not canceling their 2020 wedding, and were either moving forward with it or postponing it.
Those who forged ahead with their ceremonies despite the pandemic most likely saw something only vaguely resembling a traditional wedding.
Most states have severe restrictions on wedding attendance, with mandatory social distancing and masks required from all parties at all times, in front of limited crowds. Many locations require constant sanitation of all surfaces. Plated meals, instead of buffet, are now the norm.
But it’s certainly not all bad. Weddings can be safe so long as the right precautions are taken. And ultimately, it’s a day about love, after all. Couples have successfully done limited in-person weddings, but even virtual weddings over Zoom or Skype. You can certainly never underestimate the creativity and passion of people. 2020, for better or for worse, has offered many examples of why.
While the COVID-19 pandemic has changed the world, love, it seems, remains constant.
54 comments
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
All anyone ever has to do is get a marriage license from their county's courthouse...and maybe jump a broom. I've never heard of wedding ceremonies being required by law. They can bake their own cake from a box mix, and serve Andre or Cold Duck (with the labels torn off), if they must have a reception. Then all their have to spend much money on is their world cruise honeymoon.
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skye riversong
It's time we came up with a way for folks to just get a marriage certified online, just a matter of registering as a married couple. Considering that nearly all couples are already living together, and many have half-grown children, before they decide that yes, they really are serious about each other....all the fuss about the wedding is a bit ridiculous. Sorry, 40 year old bride, you aren't a Disney princess and the white dress is a really poor joke. Save the cash for your retirement.
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T Kosse`
I agree with everything you wrote, however the one the most important part of any legal document is their handwritten signature. There are two main purposes of a signature in a legal contract: 1. To identify person and or persons who is party to the contract. 2. To show that the signing party has read the contents of the document, understands the contents and consents to the stipulations of contract. That may be worked out by submitting a sign contract at a later date within a reasonable time period. If they do not submit the sign contract within the time period allotted then the marriage would be deemed null and void. unless can they show good cause as to why they are not able to submit it in the allotted time period and ask for extension before their allotted time period is due to expires.
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Lionheart
Weddings can be stressful, but make the best of it as best you can, memories are precious! Mine was a sunset wedding on a private beach on a cove in Maui, just the two of us, an officiator, videographer and camera crew. Halcyon memories indeed.
❤️🦁
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Thom
I like the simple weddings the most. Budget weddings always seem to really mean more. No one is trying to out-do someone or have a bunch of doves flying out of whatever is the new fling. It can be like new parents trying to figure out a new way to do the reveal for the baby's gender. Come on, make it simple. If you make it something out of the ordinary, people remember will that instead of the reason for the actual event. Backyard weddings are always fun.
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
Not too simple! What is needed is a piece of fruit cake, half a chalice of wine, incense, and a broomstick.
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Anisahoni
Weddings became productions. A friend of mine asked me to be a bridesmaid while in college and the dress was close to $500.00. Students in my day didn't have the kind of money to squander on a dress to be worn only once. Her wedding production cost he and her parents over $25,000! She and her "groom" were both working and kiving together. That was 25 years ago. I told her to save the money for a down payment on a home.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And now for the reign of the true King of Gandor!!! Hip hip hooray!!!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
P.S. I'd rather stay home, and watch the world on T.V., and would only have a wife with similar desires. You know, like a soul mate. However, now at 57, I think it's safe to assume that my soul mates have already married, and I'm free to watch my T.V. all by myself. Maybe in my next life I'll have a big, expensive wedding. Of course, I'll be sure to come back as a rich man then, too.
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T Kosse`
Yeah it would be great to be rich, but if you were be healthy and to have enough money were you wouldn't have to worry about any money problems and can live a very comfortable life that would fantastic. As for soul mate or at least someone you can feel comfortable with, well who know it still might happen.
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Alexander Clarke
The debt accrued is just more proof that there is no limit to human stupidity. Take the money and apply it toward a home.
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T Kosse`
It probably the first sign that the marriage isn't going to last and is headed to a divorce court.
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Daniel Gray
If they were stupid enough to spend more then maybe 5000. for the food and rental hall and the church and the rings and dress, then thats their own fault. If you cant afford it, then dont spend it.
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Minister Mike
What the ... does this non-issue have to do with church, religion or anything else that might be construed of interest to ordained ministers of any religion? Hint - not a damn thing.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
We've got to talk about something, Mike, and they don't give us a choice. Trust me The Monastery knows what's best for us, and knows that talking about even these far-fetched topics will make us better ministers.
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Minister Mike
There's plenty to talk about without dragging ceremony/party cancelations into the mix:
• Poverty and what we, as faith leaders can do to alleviate it. • War – and what we, as faith leaders can do to alleviate it. • Hate speech – and what we, as faith leaders can do to alleviate it. • Constitutional issues that effect faith and related issues. • Education, defeating hunger, eliminating child and spouse abuse.
The list is almost endless thanks to the inconsiderate people, but canceled parties is not something that should be on any faith leader’s list of priorities.
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Anisahoni
Ahhh, a voice of reason and humanism! Imagine ministers actually addressing issues of poverty, homelessness, hunger, discrimination and racism, war mongering, etc rather than focusing on quotes from their bibles and pretending to be holier than thou while wearing their black robes and crucifixes. Standing up and speaking out about white supremacy, homophobia, misogyny, wow wouldn't that be inspiriting? That's why I love the work of Bishop William Barber II, co founder of the Poor People's Campaign.
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Steven Lee
I married 4 couples on 10/31 (seems to be a popular date) All of them were very simple affairs. Except maybe the one where everyone was dressed in medieval attire. With yours truly as a plague doctor. (Pun intended) Personally I prefer simple uncomplicated weddings. It also says something about the couple and how they can celebrate their joining in life without large overly costly arrangements. Mine was a small wedding where we did all the work ourselves. 39 years later, we still have fond memories.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Weddings and funerals are some of the biggest spreaders of covid. Right now I’m living in a popular wedding spot. Over the past 30 days there have been 12 weddings. Everyone has been a huge production costing anywhere between $1.5 million to $4 million dollars if not more. It’s crazy, they spend 2 or 3 days setting up and building an elaborate setting only to take it down by the next day throwing it all away. Then the next day the construction crew is back building another enormous setting for the next wedding. For the one tonight they had a construction crew f 15 people working 10 hours a day for 3 days to build the setting. By tomorrow it will be gone.
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T Kosse`
The only good part of that is that it giving some people work, but still with that amount of money being spend they could help a lot more people with it and still have a great wedding to remember.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Why don’t you think the marriage is the good part? These are two people who, in some cases are meeting each other for the first time on their wedding day. This is quite a celebration. Why don’t you think that is any good?
Compared to non arranged marriages, non arranged marriages last longer.
And who is to say a marriage should be between two people? There are many people in this world who have multiple wives.
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T Kosse`
You have missed the point I was making I wasn't talking about the two people getting married, but the amount of money they were spending on the wedding ceremony itself. Maybe you didn't notice at the top of this blog the heading is: Report: Couples Owe $3.7 Billion for Canceled or Postponed COVID Weddings And By the way I did write " and still have a great wedding to remember." And you're the one who was saying that they were sending "anywhere between $1.5 million to $4 million dollars if not more. It’s crazy," Don't you read your own blog posting? And what country are you from anyway? You're making comparison of non arranged marriages, to what ? arranged marriage and also having multiple wives neither of which is practice nor is it a custom in United States. Mormons are the only cultural group that believe in having multiple wives again which is not or should not be practice and is also illegal in the United States
Please carefully read and fully comprehend what is written before you post your comments Douglas Robert Spindler
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@T Kosse. Didn’t you write, “ The only good part of that is that it giving some people work, but still with that amount of money being spend they could help a lot more people with it and still have a great wedding to remember.” ?
You say the only good part of multimillion dollar wedding is it gives some people work. Don’t you think there are other good parts?
Dude are you for real? “Mormons are the only cultural group that believe in having multiple wives... “. Forgive me, for a moment to point out what a narrow minded Christian you are. And just how uninformed about religion. You do realize the second largest practiced religion in the world, that’s 1.8 billion people and rapidly growing, allow for men to have up to four wives at one time. And yes this is practiced in the United States as well as arranged marriages. And don’t you think that’s a good thing? I know many married Christians who have one or more partners on the side and have kids. Many of these kids live in a single family household where the parent is struggling to survive.
Just like some Christians, Mormons and other religions believe their God’s laws are more powerful than man’s laws.
Would very much like to hear your comments.
It’s time we start preaching love to all.
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T Kosse`
Really just religion would that be since you fail to mention exactly which one it is you only said . You do realize the second largest practiced religion in the world, that’s 1.8 billion people and rapidly growing, allow for men to have up to four wives at one time. And yes this is practiced in the United States as well as arranged marriages. And don’t you think that’s a good thing? If this religion that you fail to mention is practiced in the United States it is illegal to marry multiple wives in the United States yes some do have arranged marriages but that is not a normal practice nor is it a custom in United States. and for the rest look for my posting at the lower part of this blog with the heading; Here is what the Supreme Court of British Columbia had to say about polygamy this past November (ref. http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt/SC/11/15/2011BCSC1588.htm): By the way never assume anything about a person you don't know.
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T Kosse`
Reynolds v. United States
This Supreme Court Case focuses on a case which tested the limits of religious liberty: Reynolds v. United States (1879). The Court ruled unanimously that a law banning polygamy was constitutional, and did not infringe upon individuals' First Amendment right to free exercise of religion.
On 14 November 1878, arguments were heard in the Reynolds case before the United States Supreme Court. Reynolds' attorneys argued that his conviction for bigamy should be overturned on four issues: (1) that it was his religious duty to marry multiple times, the practice of which the First Amendment protected as his fundamental duty of his religion; (2) that his grand jury had not been legally constituted; (3) that challenges of certain jurors were improperly overruled; and (4) that testimony was not admissible as it was under another indictment.
On 6 January 1879, the Court issued its unanimous decision for Reynolds v. United States. The Court affirmed Reynolds's conviction unanimously and rejected Reynolds' argument that the Latter-day Saint practice of plural marriage was protected by the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution. Thus, his conviction was upheld, as was the constitutionality of the Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act. Chief Justice Morrison Waite wrote on behalf of himself and seven colleagues. Justice Field wrote a concurrence that dissented on one minor point.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
What you are saying is man’s laws are more powerful than God’s laws.
S what happens when he family of a legally recognized multiple partner marriage moves, immigrates or visits the United States?
Theses people are legally married in their country.
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T Kosse`
You wrote that: Just like some Christians, Mormons and other religions believe their God’s laws are more powerful than man’s laws.
Well they can believe what ever they want. However while you're alive and on this earth you follow the laws of man of the country of which you are in at the moment, no matter what your faith is, but once you're dead then you're in the hands of whatever god or gods and his/her laws that you believe in.. So no God's laws is not more powerful than man laws while you're here and alive on earth.
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T Kosse`
Well most people idea "preaching love to all" as you put it does not include men to have up to four or more wives at one time as you seem be obsessed with advocating. It seem to me it not so much as having multiple wives that you're interested in, but having multiple female sexual partners that you're really interested in. And just because you know "many married Christians who have one or more partners on the side and have kids" does not make it right nor does it make having multiple wives right. So NO I don’t think that’s a good thing
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Why don’t you think multiple marriage partners is a good thing? People in the second largest religion in the world do. As a Christian why aren’t you accepting of people of other religions? What happens when a legally married group of multiple partners moves with their kids to the United States? Are you telling them they are no longer married? What happens to the kids in these married groups families?
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T Kosse`
It doesn't matter what I think, I don't make the laws in the US. they will only recognize the first marriage as being legal, However as long as no one make a complaint nothing will happen. And I have nothing again whatever that religion is since you never even mention what the religion is, You only refer to it as the second largest religion, there are more then one religion that have multiple marriage Don't assume to know someone's religion if you don't know the person, it would be like me assuming from your name Douglas Robert Spindler you're not from the Middle East. As to why I don't think it a good thing, I refer you to my posting at the lower part of this blog with the heading; Here is what the Supreme Court of British Columbia had to say about polygamy this past November (ref. http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt/SC/11/15/2011BCSC1588.htm):
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Dude do you seriously not know what the second largest religion in the world is? And rapidly growing. Do you know what the largest religion is in the world and shrinking? I’ll give you an hint, some of the priests are pedophiles.
And why do you say this religion is only in the Middle East? Yes, Muslims are in the Middle East but what about in South East Asia and Europe? Is there some reason your are leaving them out? I think you will find Muslim men are far more attentive to their families and wives, if they have more than one, then most Christians are. That’s what I have seen. There is also far less crime in Muslim communities. Every hear of murders and rapes where large populations of Muslims and Mormons are located? Rapes and pedophilia is not uncommon with Christians.
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T Kosse`
Again Please carefully read and fully comprehend what is written before you post your comments Douglas Robert Spindler READ EVERY THING I WROTE INCLUDING U.S. IMMIGGRATION LAWS AND my posting at the lower part of this blog with the heading; Here is what the Supreme Court of British Columbia had to say about polygamy this past November (ref. http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt/SC/11/15/2011BCSC1588.htm): READ ALL OF IT!!!!! TOP TO BOTTOM!!!!
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T Kosse`
Yes I am very much aware as you wrote "what the largest religion is in the world and shrinking? I’ll give you an hint, some of the priests are pedophiles." I have already posted about that very same subject on the blog
Proof Hexes Work? Trump's COVID-19 Diagnosis Emboldens Witches
Posted on Oct 15, 2020
My post on that blog was posted on
T Kosse`
Oct 16, 2020 at 02:40 am
You're right about it being very small percentage, plus the fact that there are male practitioners of witchcraft, Wicca and paganism So no it wouldn't be about feminism and battling the patriarchy. But still it a nice thought that witchcraft might of have had a hand in him getting the China virus as Trump like to refer it as.
The 2014 Pew Research Center's Religious Landscapes Survey included a subset of New Age Spiritual Movement called "Pagan or Wiccan" reflecting that 3/4 of individuals identifying as New Age also identified as Pagan or Wiccan and placing Wiccans and Pagans at 0.3% of the total U.S. population or approximately in 2014 there are 318.4 million people in the U.S. 0.3% of 318.4 million = 955200. However Wicca and Paganisn is on a rise while those who once identify themselves as Christian or being religious is on a decline.
The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip. In Pew Research Center telephone surveys conducted in 2018 and 2019, 65% of American adults describe themselves as Christians when asked about their religion, down 12 percentage points over the past decade. Meanwhile, the religiously unaffiliated share of the population, consisting of people who describe their religious identity as atheist, agnostic or “Wicca and Pagan,” now stands at 26%, up from 17% in 2009.
Both Protestantism and Catholicism are experiencing losses of population share. Currently, 43% of U.S. adults identify with Protestantism, down from 51% in 2009. And one-in-five adults (20%) are Catholic, down from 23% in 2009. Meanwhile, all subsets of the religiously unaffiliated population – a group also known as religious “nones” – have seen their numbers swell. Self-described atheists now account for 4% of U.S. adults, up modestly but significantly from 2% in 2009; agnostics make up 5% of U.S. adults, up from 3% a decade ago; and 17% of Americans now describe their religion as “Wicca and Pagan,” up from 12% in 2009. Members of non-Christian religions also have grown modestly as a share of the adult population.
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T Kosse`
As far as whatever your personal or religious beliefs may be this is my stand on that subject :
True religious freedom means the right to exercise your religion in peace and harmony while also respecting the freedoms of others. It does not mean steamrolling over their freedoms; it does not mean controlling every aspect of their lives; and it is not a free pass to do whatever you want on the grounds of personal faith. Religious freedom ends when it seeks dominion over the basic freedoms of others. Including people in your own religious group Each individual of the group, all have rights too. The group does not have the right to impose their will on the individual.
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T Kosse`
The Quran restricted the practice of Polygamy and suggests MONOGAMY as the ONLY acceptable from of marriage for Society in general.
Polygamy is only encouraged by the Quran where it concerns "oppressed or the orphans among women" (Holy Qur’an,4:3), if justice can be done by marring more than one.
Is polygamy allowed in Islam?
There are three basic reasons for marriage in Islam[1]:
To enable a man and a woman to live together and experience love and happiness, within Islamic law.
To produce children, and provide a stable and righteous environment for their upbringing.
To provide a legal union which safeguards society from moral and social degradation.
The subject of polygamy generates more misconceptions about Islam than any other. Islam does allow polygamy, i.e., having more than one wife at the same time, but it does not encourage it. In fact, Islam is the only religion that limited this ancient and widespread practice. Previous teachings permitted unlimited and unrestricted polygamy. Islam limits the number of wives allowed to four, and also discourages the practice. Allah says:
“But if you feel you many not be able to deal justly between them, then marry only one.” (Holy Qur’an, 4:4).
If a man cannot be satisfied with one woman, it is better for society that he assumes full moral and financial responsibility of a second wife. Having a mistress and committing adultery is a grievous sin and causes the moral decline of society.
Polygamy becomes a necessity under certain circumstances, but can only be practiced under certain conditions and with restrictions. A man has been given permission to marry again if his wife is chronically ill and cannot fulfil the obligations of marriage; or if she is unable to have children; or under certain conditions of wartime, when marrying widows to look after orphans may be necessary to protect the morals of society. Also it must be emphasized that Ahmadiyya Muslim Community’s policy requires that Ahmadi citizens obey the law of the land in which they live.
Now, the next question is why permission has been given for up to four wives. Why not three or five? “Four” (cardinal number) was a sacred and complete number with the Hebrews, as well as with several other peoples. It occurs very frequently in the Old Testament and the New Testament. It indicates completeness. Number 4 is the number of stability, order and completion of justice. Four is a cardinal number in prior scriptures. Arba in Hebrew and Arabic means 4. In the Jewish scripture and saying of their sages the number four signifies completeness, wholeness, or fullness. Allah in His wisdom has determined four to be an adequate number to provide proof beyond doubt (four witnesses) or to provide adequate time. It represents comprehensiveness, wholeness and fullness or completion. Also there are four cardinal attributes of Allah [2]: Rabb (Lord), Rehman (Gracious), Raheem (Merciful) and Malik (Master).
Women who are married to chronically ill, sterile or impotent husbands are allowed recourse to divorce, if they feel the situation is unbearable.
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T Kosse`
U.S. immigration law frowns on being married to more than one person at the same time, and prohibits both bigamists and polygamists from becoming naturalized citizens. Practicing polygamy as a legal permanent resident can lead to deportation, as can a criminal conviction for bigamy.
Many people think bigamy and polygamy mean the same thing (which they don’t); others find them confusing. In fact, so many people didn’t understand the word ‘polygamy’ that U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) stopped using it on the N-400 Application for Naturalization form (N-400) more than ten years ago. Instead, the form now asks whether the applicant has ever been married to more than one person at the same time.
What Bigamy Means Under U.S. Immigration Law
Bigamy is the crime of being intentionally married to more than one spouse at a time. To commit bigamy in the U.S., you would have to first legally marry one spouse, and then apply for a second or third license to marry someone else, and follow through with that second (or third) marriage ceremony, all without first obtaining a divorce from the first spouse.
Intentional bigamy is a crime; it virtually always involves lies and deception. Most intentional bigamists have lied to one or both of their spouses, hiding the fact that they are married to two or more people at the same time. Intentional bigamy, even if you have not been convicted of the crime of bigamy, will bar you from having the good moral character required to naturalize.
And even unintentional bigamy can block you from becoming a U.S. citizen, unless you take steps to fix the situation.
What Polygamy Means Under U.S. Immigration Law
USCIS defines polygamy as “the custom of having more than one spouse at the same time.” (This comes from the USCIS Policy Manual.) It describes situations where all the parties to all the legal marriages are fully aware of all the marital relationships and deliberately chose to practice polygamy for cultural or religious reasons.
Under the regulations, polygamy is a problem if have have practiced it in the past or are currently practicing it. You cannot be considered a practicing polygamist unless you belong to a culture or religion that recognizes the custom of polygamy; but in that case, if USCIS becomes suspicious, it can look at all your sexual and household relationships. As USCIS defines polygamy, it doesn’t matter whether or not you are legally married to the people who share your polygamous relationships.
Nor does it matter whether you are the spouse with multiple partners, or whether you are merely one of the partners. The non-legal ‘spouses’ of a polygamous man are practicing polygamy just as much as he is.
For example, a refugee who was practicing polygamy before he immigrated will be required by U.S. immigration law to designate one wife as his legal wife to accompany him to the United States. Years later, after becoming a U.S. citizen, he might divorce that wife, and marry the woman who was formerly his second wife, in order to petition for her (on Form I-130) to immigrate to the United States.
If the petition is approved, the new/formerly second wife immigrates, and then USCIS learns that the husband is still continuing to live with the first wife (even if only some of the time), all three could be accused of practicing polygamy. This is the case because all three come from a country where polygamy is practiced. Therefore, if the man lives with both women at the same time, whether the women live separately or apart, their joint behavior meets the USCIS definition of polygamy. Nor does it matter whether you are the spouse with multiple partners, or whether you are merely one of the partners. The non-legal ‘spouses’ of a polygamous man are practicing polygamy just as much as he is.
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T Kosse`
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T Kosse`
Overlaps Between Bigamy and Polygamy
A practicing polygamist might not be a bigamist, if he or she does not attempt to legally marry more than one spouse at the same time. So, for example, if a man is legally married to only one woman, but has formed a household in which, based on cultural traditions, he takes other women as “wives,” he could be blocked from U.S. citizenship as a polygamist but not as a bigamist.
The opposite situation might be a bigamist who is hiding the bigamy from each of his or her purported legal spouses. For example, perhaps a woman marries one man in Nevada and another in California, and maintains two households, pretending to often be away on “business.” Such a person is not considered a polygamist under U.S. immigration law, as she is not practicing the custom of having more than one spouse at the same time, but is simply pretending to be monogamous with more than one partner. The person could, however, still be blocked from U.S. citizenship as a bigamist.
You cannot be considered a practicing polygamist unless you belong to a culture or religion that recognizes the custom of polygamy; but in that case, if USCIS becomes suspicious, it can look at all your sexual and household relationships. As USCIS defines polygamy, it doesn’t matter whether or not you are legally married to the people who share your polygamous relationships.
Nor does it matter whether you are the spouse with multiple partners, or whether you are merely one of the partners. The non-legal ‘spouses’ of a polygamous man are practicing polygamy just as much as he is.
For example, a refugee who was practicing polygamy before he immigrated will be required by U.S. immigration law to designate one wife as his legal wife to accompany him to the United States. Years later, after becoming a U.S. citizen, he might divorce that wife, and marry the woman who was formerly his second wife, in order to petition for her (on Form I-130) to immigrate to the United States.
If the petition is approved, the new/formerly second wife immigrates, and then USCIS learns that the husband is still continuing to live with the first wife (even if only some of the time), all three could be accused of practicing polygamy. This is the case because all three come from a country where polygamy is practiced. Therefore, if the man lives with both women at the same time, whether the women live separately or apart, their joint behavior meets the USCIS definition of polygamy.
Similarly, if an immigrant from a country where polygamy is practiced culturally but not legally goes through a ceremony of customary ‘marriage’ with someone in her country of origin who has other customary wives, USCIS will see her as a practicing polygamist. This will be the case even though there is no legal marriage between the couple, and even though she is living in the U.S. and he and his wives are living outside the United States.
Islam is the most common religious tradition recognizing the custom of polygamy today. Nevertheless, as a result of the biblical practice of polygamy, there exist practicing polygamists in both the Hebrew and Christian traditions. In addition, many African and some South-East Asian nations have sociocultural traditions of polygamy.
If you belong to any of these traditions (or certain sects within them), therefore, USCIS will pay close attention to indications that your household situation fits the definition of polygamy.
Because many immigrants and U.S. citizens come from religious traditions that have practiced polygamy, it is not against U.S. law to believe in polygamy, so long as you are not actually practicing it. Special Concerns for Immigrants From Countries Where Polygamy Is Legal
Because USCIS defines polygamy as a religious or cultural tradition, USCIS examiners are taught to pay particular attention to the possibility that an immigrant from a country where polygamy is or has recently been legal may still be practicing polygamy. Although refugees and immigrants are all advised that polygamy is illegal in the United States, some immigrants are continuing this practice nonetheless. (See, for example: In Secret, Polygamy Follows Africans to N.Y. and Some Muslims in U.S. Quietly Engage in Polygamy.)
USCIS examiners reviewing an application for naturalization will take an especially close look where an immigrant was practicing polygamy before immigrating or is from a country where polygamy is practiced.
The most common way USCIS officers have of spotting polygamous relationships is by paying attention to when and where children are born. The N-400 form requires that all children be clearly listed and their relationship to the applicant noted.
USCIS officers are also trained to pay attention to requests for legal name changes that appear unusual, particularly when the applicant is a female seeking to change her surname. A change of surname can signal to the USCIS officer that the woman is in a non-legal marital-type relationship.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@T KOSSE You can sure write a lot say nothing. Would sure like to know what you said that the censors of this forum removed.
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T Kosse`
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Why do you assume a multiple partner marriage only involves multiple women? Why can’t it involve multiple men? You seem to be obsessed with sex. A marriage is not just about sex, but then with the comments you have writing maybe you didn’t know that.
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T Kosse`
You're the one that obsessed with having multiple partners and yes it can involve multiple men, but in your case I find that to be highly un-likely you really would be interest in such a relationship. It very rare that men get into such relationship solely for the purpose of love Men are more into physical attraction rather emotional attraction, where as women are the opposite, women are more into emotional attraction rather than into physical attraction.
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T Kosse`
You read but you fail to comprehend what is written, you will find your answers to all your questions in everything I wrote. If you're intelligent enough you will be able to figure it out on your own, if you're not able to figure it out then I have no more to say to you.
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T Kosse`
They didn't remove anything, it just you don't like the answer I gave you. You want me to give you a justifiable reason for having multiple female sexual partners that you're really interested in. You just want a legal reason to have female sex slaves by using religion as excuse.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
What is that you are sating? Your posts are so long winded I’m not sure what it is you are saying.
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T Kosse`
Joe Biden will be the next President of the United States
For the Christians
Saor in aisce faoi dheireadh saor in aisce faoi dheireadh, buíochas le Dia uilechumhachtach Táimid saor in aisce faoi dheireadh
Free Finally Free Finally, thank Almighty God We are finally free
For the Pagans
Saor in aisce faoi dheireadh saor in aisce faoi dheireadh, buíochas leis na déithe agus na bandia Táimid saor in aisce faoi dheireadh
Free Finally Free Finally, thanks to the gods and goddesses We are finally free
Saoirse (Freedom)
Bealtaine nglanfaidh an ghaoth atá ag réabadh trí na crainn tú strus agus imní.
Bealtaine nighfidh na báistí do chuid brón.
Bealtaine n-osclóidh na bláthanna gach lá agus go mbeannaíonn siad duit lena n-áilleacht cumhra.
Bealtaine gcuirfidh scread na seabhac mothú saoirse agus misnigh ionat.
Bealtaine gcuirfidh áthas na gréine teas ar do chraiceann.
Bealtaine dtreoróidh solas na gealaí tú ar feadh do chosáin.
Bealtaine líonfaidh na réaltaí thuas tú le fiosracht agus le hiontas.
Bealtaine gcuirfidh an t-amhrán crickets suaimhneas ort.
Bealtaine mbeifeá oscailte agus sásta glacadh le cumhachtaí cneasaithe uile Gaia,
Thar aon rud eile,
Bealtaine bhfeicfidh tú i gcónaí an grá agus an maitheas bunúsach i measc daoine eile.
- Mar sin mote é bí *
Freedom
May the wind blowing through the trees will clear you of stress and anxiety.
May the rains wash away your sorrows.
May the flowers open every day and bless you with their fragrant beauty.
May the scream of the hawks give you a feeling of freedom and courage.
May the joy of the sun warm your skin.
May the moonlight guide you along your path.
May the stars above fill you with curiosity and wonder.
May the crickets song will reassure you.
May you be open and willing to accept all of Gaia 's healing powers,
Above anything else,
May you always see the basic love and goodness among others.
- So mote it be *
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Why should a marriage be limited to two people? What’s wrong with a man having multiple wives. These marriages are very successful. Talk to the women who might be once of three or five wives one man is married to and you will find they are very happy. Multiple partner marriages have a higher success rate than single partner marriages if we measure success by the length of time they stay together.
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Joseph F. Carideo Jr
This door swings both ways! My daughter and her fiance pre-paid vendors for much of their wedding day which was to originally be held April 25, 2020. The wedding was to be held in Banff, Alberta, Canada.
The caterer, florist, photographer were all contracted early. And of course all arrangements were made long distance (she lives in Florida). Thousands of dollars were paid to these vendors long before the anticipated wedding day. Then COVID hit and the Canadian borders were closed. The wedding was re-scheduled to September, 2020 and now finally it is scheduled for May 1, 2021 IF we allowed to cross the Canadian Borders.
These vendors were paid in full for their services and are refusing to refund them any money. Not one meal was prepared, not one flower was ordered, and not one photograph was taken and yet these people have thousands of US dollars in their hands at the expense of two young people who can't afford to lose such large sums of money.
It's sad, that COVID producing millions of sick patients, but it is also sad that it is showing the true colors of those so greedy who keep money without providing a service.
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T Kosse`
Hopefully this all works out well for you and your daughter and her fiance. If you still have time then take them all to court and sue them. Of course COVID might made it somewhat difficult to do, however check with a trustworthy Lawyer to see what your options are.
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Richard Lee Cornell
A girl (woman) I known for years wants a wedding that will be more costly than her sister. She even pick out a husband for herself. Me! My church is too small to have her event in so that the place down the street has a large room. A large circus tent could be rented next to a large parking lot. That the cost should never be mention if I really love her. It is her only time that she will be happy and that she will make sure everyone has a set of pictures to show how happy she is. Her father would have to put a loan on his business, his house, then I must do the same thing if I really loved her. She wanted her brothers to take out loans so that she could have a wedding that would splash on the front page of the local paper. What she wanted. What she wanted. One picture of me leaving a local motel with a (woman) show that her and my dreams of bliss are far apart. She has never spoken to me again once she saw that picture. Thanks. Mother!
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T Kosse`
That all only can happen if the people around her allow her to have everything HER WAY as Nancy Reagan said just say NO! NO to everything and anything SHE wants. She's a spoiled self-centered person that need to learn that the world DOES NOT revolve around her every wants and need. She the type of person who will never be happy no matter what you do for her and she a toxic person who will only make everyone life around her miserable and a living hell.
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T Kosse`
Here is what the Supreme Court of British Columbia had to say about polygamy this past November (ref. http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt/SC/11/15/2011BCSC1588.htm):
[782] Women in polygynous relationships are at an elevated risk of physical and psychological harm. They face higher rates of domestic violence and abuse, including sexual abuse. Competition for material and emotional access to a shared husband can lead to fractious co-wife relationships. These factors contribute to the higher rates of depressive disorders and other mental health issues that women in polygynous relationships face. They have more children, are more likely to die in childbirth and live shorter lives than their monogamous counterparts. They lack reproductive autonomy, and report high rates of marital dissatisfaction and low levels of self-esteem. They also fare worse economically, as resources may be inequitably divided or simply insufficient.
[783] Children in polygynous families face higher infant mortality, even controlling for economic status and other relevant variables. They tend to suffer more emotional, behavioural and physical problems, as well as lower educational achievement. These outcomes are likely the result of higher levels of conflict, emotional stress and tension in polygynous families. In particular, rivalry and jealousy among co-wives can cause significant emotional problems for their children. The inability of fathers to give sufficient affection and disciplinary attention to all of their children can further reduce children’s emotional security. Children are also at enhanced risk of psychological and physical abuse and neglect.
[784] Early marriage for girls is common, frequently to significantly older men. The resultant early sexual activity, pregnancies and childbirth have negative health implications for girls and also significantly limit their socio-economic development. Shortened inter-birth intervals pose a heightened risk of problems for both mother and child.
[785] The sex ratio imbalance inherent in polygyny means that young men are forced out of polygamous communities to sustain the ability of senior men to accumulate more wives. These young men and boys often receive limited education as a result, and must navigate their way outside their communities with few life skills and little social support.
[786] Another significant harm to children is their exposure to, and potential internalization of, harmful gender stereotypes.
[787] Polygyny has negative impacts on society flowing from the high fertility rates, large family size and poverty associated with the practice. It generates a class of largely poor, unmarried men who are statistically predisposed to violence and other anti-social behaviour. Polygyny also institutionalizes gender inequality. Patriarchal hierarchy and authoritarian control are common features of polygynous communities.
[788] A great many of the foregoing effects are not limited to particular cultures or geographic locations; they are universal. Dr. McDermott’s statistical analysis of polygyny reveals that throughout the world, women in polygynous societies sustain more physical and sexual abuse. They have more children, are more likely to die in childbirth and live shorter lives than their monogamous counterparts. They are more likely to be subject to sex trafficking and genital mutilation. They receive less equal treatment than men and encounter more discrimination under the law.
[789] Girls are less likely to be educated, restricting a key factor allowing for upward mobility and economic independence. Up to half of the boys in highly polygynous societies are ejected from their communities with incalculable negative effects.
[790] Individuals in polygynous societies tend to have fewer civil liberties than their counterparts in societies which prohibit the practice. Polygynous states spend more on defence on average, leaving fewer resources for domestic infrastructure and projects geared toward health and education.
[791] Moving closer to home, these harms are consistent with what clinical experts in North America have observed in their patients from polygynous backgrounds. Dr. Beall spoke of PTSD and other mental health conditions in his patients from fundamentalist Mormon communities. Dr. Stickevers’ Muslim patients in polygynous relationships had higher rates of depression and anxiety and lower levels of self-esteem than her monogamously married patients. Dr. Hassouneh’s Muslim patients had similar symptoms.
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T Kosse`
You wrote that: Just like some Christians, Mormons and other religions believe their God’s laws are more powerful than man’s laws.
Well they can believe what ever they want. However while you're alive and on this earth you follow the laws of man of the country of which you are in at the moment, no matter what your faith is, but once you're dead then you're in the hands of whatever god or gods and his/her laws that you believe in.. So no God's laws is not more powerful than man laws while you're here and alive on earth.
One thing you must remember if you're a American citizen and you're in a foreign country you follow the laws of the country you're in, but you're still bound by U.S. laws as well. So if you do something that may be legal in the country you're visiting, but illegal in the U.S, you can be charge with committing a crime once you enter back into the U.S.
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T Kosse`
U.S. immigration law frowns on being married to more than one person at the same time, and prohibits both bigamists and polygamists from becoming naturalized citizens. Practicing polygamy as a legal permanent resident can lead to deportation, as can a criminal conviction for bigamy.
Many people think bigamy and polygamy mean the same thing (which they don’t); others find them confusing. In fact, so many people didn’t understand the word ‘polygamy’ that U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) stopped using it on the N-400 Application for Naturalization form (N-400) more than ten years ago. Instead, the form now asks whether the applicant has ever been married to more than one person at the same time.
What Bigamy Means Under U.S. Immigration Law
Bigamy is the crime of being intentionally married to more than one spouse at a time. To commit bigamy in the U.S., you would have to first legally marry one spouse, and then apply for a second or third license to marry someone else, and follow through with that second (or third) marriage ceremony, all without first obtaining a divorce from the first spouse.
Intentional bigamy is a crime; it virtually always involves lies and deception. Most intentional bigamists have lied to one or both of their spouses, hiding the fact that they are married to two or more people at the same time. Intentional bigamy, even if you have not been convicted of the crime of bigamy, will bar you from having the good moral character required to naturalize.
And even unintentional bigamy can block you from becoming a U.S. citizen, unless you take steps to fix the situation.
What Polygamy Means Under U.S. Immigration Law
USCIS defines polygamy as “the custom of having more than one spouse at the same time.” (This comes from the USCIS Policy Manual.) It describes situations where all the parties to all the legal marriages are fully aware of all the marital relationships and deliberately chose to practice polygamy for cultural or religious reasons.
Under the regulations, polygamy is a problem if have have practiced it in the past or are currently practicing it.
Insane. Weddings should be a simple family affair. Those $16K could be better spent on more lasting things. That night or day flies by so fast and all you do is fill the stomachs of people who criticize it all. I should have eloped...