At a recent speaking event, Democratic presidential hopeful Pete Buttigieg told the audience about his own struggles as a gay man growing up in the Christian church.
"When I was younger, I would have done anything to not be gay," said the mayor of South Bend, Indiana during an emotional address at the LGBTQ Victory Fund National Champagne Brunch in Washington. "If you had offered me a pill to make me straight, I would have swallowed it before you had time to give me a sip of water. If me being gay was a choice, it was a choice that was made far, far above my pay grade."
But eventually, the man known to many as "Mayor Pete" explained, he came to terms with his sexuality and began to embrace it. This, he contends, is not impossible to do as Christian. In fact, Buttigieg says getting married to his husband actually brought him "closer to God."
Sparring with Pence
The topic then turned to Mike Pence, who formerly served as governor of Mayor Pete's home state. Pence, who had already publicly called for federal funds to be allocated for gay "conversion therapy," was launched onto the national stage in 2015 when he signed the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The controversial bill effectively legalized discrimination against LGBT individuals.
But according to Buttigieg, Mike Pence's view and that of many other religious fundamentalists refuses to acknowledge one crucial point: God created everyone, including LGBT people.
"And that's the thing I wish the Mike Pences of the world would understand. That if you got a problem with who I am, your problem is not with me your quarrel, sir, is with my creator," he said.
VP Fires Back
Mike Pence was asked in a recent interview about Buttigieg's claim that God created him to be gay. Pence deflected, simply saying "all of us have our own religious convictions. Pete has his convictions, I have mine."
But when pressed on Mayor Pete's overarching argument that Christians need to quit being hostile to LGBT groups and accept them for who they are, Pence shot back.
"I hope that Pete will offer more to the American people than attacks on my Christian faith or attacks on the President as he seeks the highest office in the land," Pence said. "He'd do well to reflect on the importance of respecting the freedom of religion of every American."
Hiding in Plain Sight
Buttigieg's admission that he previously wished to be straight - a prayer that was not answered, despite its earnestness - flies in the face of the prevailing view among some Christians that being gay is a choice. When it comes to the belief that homosexuality is some kind of moral failure that needs to be corrected with God and therapy, Pete Buttigieg stands as compelling evidence of its absurdity.
On a personal level, it's easy to understand why Buttigieg acted the way that he did. The former Naval officer joined the reserves prior to the repeal of "Don't Ask Don't Tell," when it was still possible to get kicked out of the military just for being gay. As a practicing Christian, he never imagined a day where he could be legally married and accepted by his family, the military, and his parish.
And yet, times change. Mayor Pete came out publicly during his 2015 mayoral re-election campaign, receiving resounding support and easily winning re-election. In doing so, Buttigieg has torn through the conventional wisdom that one cannot be both gay and devoutly Christian, perhaps paving the way for a more moderate and inclusive version of Christianity to become mainstream.
Like The vice president said, you're entitled to your faith and I have mine.
Love is from God for God is love! Of course it will bring you closer to God when love abounds! There is no other way. No love is sin
I don't cast pearls before swine therefore it would be a complete waste for anyone to enlighten you or for you to even begin to understand who or what God is and certain things God says will cause a person to suffer the second and final death. Homosexuals are a filthy disgusting choice of a lifestyle period and they will not be in the eternity and I love and bless God for that promise.
You are so sad.
Sad, yes . . . . but TRUE!
I don't think you truly understand the meaning of Love either.
Why is it sad
it is not a biblical tradition to marry not in anyway it started in Irish religious traditions as early as the Celtic druids in the Before your Christ!
Such an unchristian comment and Lack of knowledge to scripture
Hows that scripture go then
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
There is only one being allowed to judge anyone, and YOU sir are not that being.
Quit playing God.
're neesue': I can''t believe your ignorance!
Jesus encouraged us to judge: John 17:24, and to rebuke: Luke 17:3.
The Bible (Old and New Testaments) has much advice for us to: beware, avoid, depart from, come ye apart, This all has implications of discernment, evaluation and judging of behavior and attitudes.
To bad theres not a book that tells you how he judges like dont do this dont do that
Being homosexual is no more of a choice than having green eyes or had ing brown skin is a choice. The same goes for being transgender.
There's NO valid condemnation in scripture for being gay or trans either.
I don’t know why people don’t mind their business and stop saying hateful things about others people. So what someone is gay? Why would you care? Some homosexuals just go over the top and express themselves and some are shy and insecure about. But you know what? I don’t care. And you can’t talk for God. He blessed us with souls with the 4 people powers. Think, choose, love, and relate. People thought about the possibility of loving the same gender. They choose them over the opposite gender. They love them with all their heart, just like Jesus loved everyone (not just His own “manly” gender). And other people can relate to how they feel. I’m not here to judge you for your horrible opinion. I’m not gay either, so I don’t have a biased opinion. But I think if you are thanking God for other people who have done nothing wrong to suffer, that’s a conversation you need have with the man upstairs. Sometimes you just need mind your own business.
wow, the Jesus I know would never condemn any one to hell . As a matter of fact as he died he promised a thief heaven...and didn't even ask him what his sexual orientation was. You say " ...it would be a complete waste for anyone to enlighten you or for you to begin to understand who or what God is........" And yet that is exactly what you are doing with this post. Kind of hypocritical wouldn't you say !
So the killers perverts gays just every ones going to heaven free passes
Jesus WOULD indeed condemn someone to hell. He wouldn't want to... but He would.... All He asks is that we Believe Him. If someone is too stupid, or stubborn to Believe Him because they don't like who He associates with.... well then they are bound to hell.... but there's still a chance for them... they might turn toward Him before their last breath.... so we're supposed spread the word... so it might sink in....
BUT .... it's not up to us to judge who hears the Good News....
'seth': Yep, Jesus would never condemn anyone to hell. BUT, you send yourself to hell by not accepting Jesus' sacrificial work on the cross.
So flugo, what business is it of yours if Seth is condemning himself to hell? Stop proselytizing your own beliefs on other people
You say "homosexuals are a filthy disgusting choice of lifestyle" and "they will not be in the eternity (of Heaven)" because you make "God" say whatever you want "Him" to say and agree with you.
I pray someday that God may clothe you with the kindness, compassion, humility, gentleness and patience requested of his chosen people (Colossians 3:12) since you clearly have none at the moment. I hope God also enlightens you as to your own sins since I doubt by the rules you play by you'll be making it into eternity either.
no one has the right to discriminate on any reason! my god gave everyone rights that can not be taken away and one is that lgbt have the same rights as anyone and should be respected and my faith condemns no one. i am pagan and proud
it historically true
Homosexuals are people too and they are not filthy your mind is
to my understanding your evil and vile and the your are a filthy disgusting killing good honest Wiccan's that is a bad choice that the Church made because of stupid scotch-Irish swines that smelled of folwers boose and piss
Rick:Your are so right! One cannot be Christian and be a practicing homosexual! The lifestyles of the LGBTQxyz-ers are repugnant, abnormal and a blight. Just because some small deviant section of society wants inclusion, acceptance and equality, doesn't mean they have a valid stance.
Read the bible dont be ignorant You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. 23 iAnd you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is jperversion.
The term "male" was used to differentiate between an adult and a child, not another man.
'less grey': The Bible verse to which your are referring, please.
Yes know your bible! ?
Again, people who wrote the Bible put their own prejudices against homosexuality into "God's mouth", in order to "sanctify" and "justify" them and impose them on other people easier.
Jerry Brooks, as I have told many other people here before and am now telling you, many things are called "abominations" in the Bible and not just homosexuality (look it up in a concordance if you don't believe me!), since "abomination" is really just any kind of "sin against God". So, if you're going to be against "abominations", be consistent, at least, and be against all of them (many of which are pretty trivial "sins") and not just against homosexuality and stop picking and choosing in that way.
Read the Bible and become ignorant!
Joc you are absolutely correct. God's love is greater than "Christian" principles. If one were to study the Bible and translation he/she would find that God has no problem with same sex couples in fact in the book of Isaiah He says that He will lift them up higher than those who are not.
'jake': The Isaiah reference, please.
Your a fool now most of you are just taken the words and twisting its simply a sin
May the one without sin through the first stone.
There are only 7 sins in actual christianity circa 0-roughly 300AD. all literature after that time written is based on a desire to establish a new governing faction for Rome and began the line of so called holy roman emperors aka Popes.
Those 7 sins are: 1.Pride 2. Greed 3.Lust 4.Envy 5.Gluttony 6.Wrath 7. Sloth
Now while an act of homosexuality can fall under lust, so too can love making between a married couple. Its that very sin, a christian concept, that sharia law cultures use( not anything from the teachings of their prophet) to justify female genital mutilation.
However Pride has become a sin embraced by U.S. culture in everything from taking pride in work and a job well done, to ones possessions including family. Glutony as well, for every time you eat more then simple meals indulging in reach seasonings and sauces, eating till one feels excessively full, a common occurrence for most around holidays.
Sloth, by the christian definition literally means every waking moment your not devoting to aiding your fellow man is slothful. How many here that identify as christian never take any time off except to rest and eat? I suspect very few.
Wrath well every one here that defends the right to bear arms and self defense has the potential to fail that one as Wrath is any act of anger or aggression.
Seriously ever christian wannabe Ive ever known has failed at least 4 of those 7 sins on a regular basis often numerous times a day.
Just an FYI thing: That list of 7 deadly sins didn't come from scripture but literature. Not saying they aren't sins, just saying that list is not from scripture. The actual biblical list is from Solomon's Proverbs 6:16-19--
"6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."
One might also look at Paul's letter to the Galatians 5:19-21--
"5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
These lists are biblical.
I would like to see that scrpture i dont recall that at all
John Owens, if you really have to have everything spelled out for you, the Seven Deadly Sins were taken by the Catholic Church from the Scriptures, not from literature, and are inferred or expressly stated in those Bible verses that you referred to. "A proud look": obviously, pride. "A lying tongue" is often the result of greed, pride, lust, and wrath. "Hands that shed innocent blood": anger, pride, lust, and greed (as when David had Bathsheba's husband Uriah sent to the heaviest part of the fighting in a war so that he would be killed and David could take Bathsheba). "A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations": lust, envy, greed. "Feet that be swift in running to mischief": lust, greed, envy. "A false witness that speaketh lies": unless it's just lying for the Hell of it (and that would be sloth!), it would be for one of these other 7 deadlies, such as lying out of pride (you might have some familiarity with that), lying out of greed, lying out of lust for someone, lying out of anger, and for other reasons that can be boiled down basically to one of these sins. "He that soweth discord among brethren": anger, greed, lust (causing broken homes and divorces from taking someone's wife or husband or the killing of the person who takes that person sounds like discord to me!). Then, you go into a litany of other sins, which can be traced back to one or more of the 7 deadlies. "Adultery, fornication, uncleanness (being or talking dirty), lasciviousness": LUST!!! Well, the rest of the list from the Scriptures follows suit and is boilable down to one or more of the 7 deadlies: anger, pride, lust, and so on. Do you mean to say that you really can't figure this out for yourself and have to be spoonfed these obvious connections here? That's very sad!! Anyway, there you go and problem solved!!
homosexuality is no sin its possible for 2 men to love each other and its just love between 2 grown adults and just that and nothing easel they want kids to raise and insert good morals that all just as any parent and its better for kids to go to a loving home that will not abuse and Miss-treat them
Can you tell me exactly how isaiah says rhat and where please
So lets see that proof
'jake': We're still waiting. Cat got your tongue . . . . and brain?
Yep, 'no lov is sin'. BUT, lust is sin!
More specific so i can look it up if you dont mind
You sound like someone who would like sharia law
Flugo Marx, gay love isn't lust, anymore than straight love is lust. That is a consistent standard, instead of a double standard, and so this consistent standard is what all honest people (and you, if you were an honest person, instead of a deceitful person, as you are) are required to follow by your "Lord and Master Jesus Christ".
Homosexuality is clearly condemned in the Bible. It undermines God's created order where He made Adam and Eve, a man and a woman, to carry out his command. Homosexuality is from the dark Liberal demonic underworld, a wicked evil spirit design and determined to drag men souls to hell.
(Leviticus 18:22), "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Sounds like sharia law is what you’d like and we will NEVER have sharia law in this country
Except that theological scholars from every faith and standing have agreed for years that there is no condemnation of homosexuality in either the OT or NT. not counting certain modern edited and rewritten versions like the king james bible which is not an actual holy text by any standard but political propaganda made at the order of King James.
The most often cited by the homophobes is the story of Soddom. Which the finest minds for many a year have stated is about fearing strangers and abusing them rather then offering them welcome with open arms open doors and open hearts.
And unless your possessed of divine wisdom and are the 2nd coming, I doubt you are wiser then hundreds of scholars from all faiths often with 30-50 years of work in the field of theology.
Michael Barnett, homosexuality is condemned in the Bible because it was written by homophobes and so what else is it going to say? That no more proves that it is actually wrong than Mein Kampf's condemnation of Jews makes them actually wrong or "inferior" and it is circular "reasoning" to say that it does.
How should a Christian view politics?
Question: "How should a Christian view politics?"
Answer: If there is anything that will spark a spontaneous debate, if not an outright argument, it is a discussion involving politics—even among believers. As followers of Christ, what should be our attitude and our involvement with politics? It has been said that “religion and politics don’t mix.” But is that really true? Can we have political views outside the considerations of our Christian faith? The answer is no, we cannot. The Bible gives us two truths regarding our stance towards politics and government.
The first truth is that the will of God permeates and supersedes every aspect of life. It is God’s will that takes precedence over everything and everyone (Matthew 6:33). God’s plans and purposes are fixed, and His will is inviolable. What He has purposed, He will bring to pass, and no government can thwart His will (Daniel 4:34-35). In fact, it is God who “sets up kings and deposes them” (Daniel 2:21) because “the Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of men and gives them to anyone he wishes” (Daniel 4:17). A clear understanding of this truth will help us to see that politics is merely a method God uses to accomplish His will. Even though evil men abuse their political power, meaning it for evil, God means it for good, working “all things together for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose” (Romans 8:28).
Second, we must grasp the fact that our government cannot save us! Only God can. We never read in the New Testament of Jesus or any of the apostles expending any time or energy schooling believers on how to reform the pagan world of its idolatrous, immoral, and corrupt practices via the government. The apostles never called for believers to demonstrate civil disobedience to protest the Roman Empire's unjust laws or brutal schemes. Instead, the apostles commanded the first-century Christians, as well as us today, to proclaim the gospel and live lives that give clear evidence to the gospel’s transforming power.
There is no doubt that our responsibility to government is to obey the laws and be good citizens (Romans 13:1–2). God has established all authority, and He does so for our benefit, “to commend those who do right” (1 Peter 2:13–15). Paul tells us in Romans 13:1–8 that it is the government’s responsibility to rule in authority over us—hopefully for our good—to collect taxes, and to keep the peace. Where we have a voice and can elect our leaders, we should exercise that right by voting for those who best demonstrate Christian principles.
One of Satan’s grandest deceptions is that we can rest our hope for cultural morality and godly living in politicians and governmental officials. A nation’s hope for change is not to be found in any country’s ruling class. The church has made a mistake if it thinks that it is the job of politicians to defend, to advance, and to guard biblical truths and Christian values.
The church’s unique, God-given purpose does not lie in political activism. Nowhere in Scripture do we have the directive to spend our energy, our time, or our money in governmental affairs. Our mission lies not in changing the nation through political reform, but in changing hearts through the Word of God. When believers think the growth and influence of Christ can somehow be allied with government policy, they corrupt the mission of the church. Our Christian mandate is to spread the gospel of Christ and to preach against the sins of our time. Only as the hearts of individuals in a culture are changed by Christ will the culture begin to reflect that change.
Believers throughout the ages have lived, and even flourished, under antagonistic, repressive, pagan governments. This was especially true of the first-century believers who, under merciless political regimes, sustained their faith under immense cultural stress. They understood that it was they, not their governments, who were the light of the world and the salt of the earth. They adhered to Paul’s teaching to obey their governing authorities, even to honor, respect, and pray for them (Romans 13:1-8). More importantly, they understood that, as believers, their hope resided in the protection that only God supplies. The same holds true for us today. When we follow the teachings of the Scriptures, we become the light of the world as God has intended for us to be (Matthew 5:16).
Political entities are not the savior of the world. The salvation for all mankind has been manifested in Jesus Christ. God knew that our world needed saving long before any national government was ever founded. He demonstrated to the world that redemption could not be accomplished through the power of man, his economic strength, his military might, or his politics. Peace of mind, contentment, hope and joy—and the salvation of mankind—is accomplished only through His work of faith, love, and grace.
But that actually isnt accurate history. The Term Pagan for example arose because of the early roman christian abuse of rural romans who still practiced the older faith traditions. It was a term used to dehumanize them and oppress them. As soon as Christians took power they turned that power upon those that believed differently from them.
Religion is just another form of government, and is why we have always kept churches separate from the state in the U.S. because they all want to be the one and only government order just as its always been.
actually your wrong it apply's to any faith outside the stereotypical churches of 1 god
wrong not at that time
i do not need this b.s from anyone I worship an all loving mother Goddess THAT HAS 1,000 Names and a family of Gods i will never worship Jesus 1st that's not his real name its Yeshua that was lost to history in some book that to me is fiction and that king james took his has face and stuck it on Yeshua's body and his thugs gave him a new name Je-Zeus from the Greek's and Roman's names Jove and Zeus and then miss translated as Jesus.
and marriage goes back to the Celtic-druids time
the person is not because no one is white at point in history but rome and the greeks and vikings
yes i am entitled to my own faith for my faith will not kill in our spiritual parents name! for it goes againest our laws and ethics in my tradition.
no you are a swine
get your ead out of peoples pants
Thats true but changeing the word of got is wrong let them live there life just keep it to yourself
I certainly see a lot of judgement in these comments. Why must we choose which sins are more heinous than others? Why are Christians not standing outside of Hotels and Motels with signs damning those who are adulterers, or outside of the Walmart condemning those who steal? Or outside the White House damning the lies? It is not our authority to judge and damn. We are all sinners, and I am thankful for my imperfection, for it ever brings me closer to My God, who is a loving God.
Relax a sin is a sin can be stealing or any other in gods eyes he just sees sin one isnt worse
Statement of Faith
Section 1: The Bible We believe the Bible, comprised of the Old and New Testaments, to be the inspired, infallible, and authoritative Word of God (Matthew 5:18; 2 Timothy 3:16-17). In faith we hold the Bible to be inerrant in the original writings, God-breathed, and the complete and final authority for faith and practice (2 Timothy 3:16-17). While still using the individual writing styles of the human authors, the Holy Spirit perfectly guided them to ensure they wrote precisely what He wanted written, without error or omission (2 Peter 1:21).
Section 2: God We believe in one God, who is Creator of all (Deuteronomy 6:4; Colossians 1:16), who has revealed Himself in three distinct Persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 13:14), yet who is one in being, essence, and glory (John 10:30). God is eternal (Psalm 90:2), infinite (1 Timothy 1:17), and sovereign (Psalm 93:1). God is omniscient (Psalm 139:1-6), omnipresent (Psalm 139:7-13), omnipotent (Revelation 19:6), and unchanging (Malachi 3:6). God is holy (Isaiah 6:3), just (Deuteronomy 32:4), and righteous (Exodus 9:27). God is love (1 John 4:8), gracious (Ephesians 2:8), merciful (1 Peter 1:3), and good (Romans 8:28).
Section 3: Jesus Christ We believe in the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is God incarnate, God in human form, the expressed image of the Father, who, without ceasing to be God, became man in order that He might demonstrate who God is and provide the means of salvation for humanity (Matthew 1:21; John 1:18; Colossians 1:15).
We believe that Jesus Christ was conceived of the Holy Spirit and was born of the virgin Mary (Matthew 1:23); that He is truly fully God and truly fully man (John 1:1,14); that He lived a perfect, sinless life (1 John 3:5); that all His teachings are true (John 14:6). We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross for all humanity (1 John 2:2) as a substitutionary sacrifice (Isaiah 53:5-6). We hold that His death is sufficient to provide salvation for all who receive Him as Savior (John 1:12; Acts 16:31); that our justification is grounded in the shedding of His blood (Romans 5:9; Ephesians 1:7); and that it is attested by His literal, physical resurrection from the dead (Matthew 28:6; 1 Peter 1:3).
We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ ascended to Heaven in His glorified body (Acts 1:9-10) and is now seated at the right hand of God as our High Priest and Advocate (Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:25).
Section 4: The Holy Spirit We believe in the deity and personality of the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4). He regenerates sinners (Titus 3:5) and indwells believers (Romans 8:9). He is the agent by whom Christ baptizes all believers into His body (1 Corinthians 12:12-14). He is the seal by whom the Father guarantees the salvation of believers unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14). He is the Divine Teacher who illumines believers' hearts and minds as they study the Word of God (1 Corinthians 2:9-12).
We believe that the Holy Spirit is ultimately sovereign in the distribution of spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:11). We believe that the miraculous gifts of the Spirit, while by no means outside of the Spirit's ability to empower, no longer function to the same degree they did in the early development of the church (1 Corinthians 12:4-11; 2 Corinthians 12:12; Ephesians 2:20; 4:7-12).
Section 5: Angels and Demons We believe in the reality and personality of angels. We believe that God created the angels to be His servants and messengers (Nehemiah 9:6; Psalm 148:2; Hebrews 1:14).
We believe in the existence and personality of Satan and demons. Satan is a fallen angel who led a group of angels in rebellion against God (Isaiah 14:12-17; Ezekiel 28:12-15). He is the great enemy of God and man, and the demons are his servants in evil. He and his demons will be eternally punished in the lake of fire (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10).
Section 6: Humanity We believe that humanity came into existence by direct creation of God and that humanity is uniquely made in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27). We believe that all humanity, because of Adam's fall, has inherited a sinful nature, that all human beings choose to sin (Romans 3:23), and that all sin is exceedingly offensive to God (Romans 6:23). Humanity is utterly unable to remedy this fallen state (Ephesians 2:1-5,12).
Section 7: Salvation We believe that salvation is a gift of God's grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross (Ephesians 2:8-9). Christ's death fully accomplished justification through faith and redemption from sin. Christ died in our place (Romans 5:8-9) and bore our sins in His own body (1 Peter 2:24). On the third day after His death, Jesus physically rose again, demonstrating His victory over sin and death (Romans 14:9).
We believe salvation is received by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Good works and obedience are results of salvation, not requirements for salvation. Due to the greatness, sufficiency, and perfection of Christ's sacrifice, all those who have truly received Christ as Savior are eternally secure in salvation, kept by God's power, secured and sealed in Christ forever (John 6:37-40; 10:27-30; Romans 8:1, 38-39; Ephesians 1:13-14; 1 Peter 1:5; Jude 24). Just as salvation cannot be earned by good works, neither does it need good works to be maintained or sustained. Good works and changed lives are the inevitable results of salvation (James 2).
Section 8: The Church We believe that the Church, the Body of Christ, is a spiritual organism made up of all believers of this present age (1 Corinthians 12:12-14; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 1:22-23, 5:25-27). We believe in the ordinances of believer's water baptism by immersion as a testimony to Christ and identification with Him, and the Lord's Supper as a remembrance of Christ's death and shed blood (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 2:41-42, 18:8; 1 Corinthians 11:23-26). Through the church, believers are to be taught to obey the Lord and to testify concerning their faith in Christ as Savior and to honor Him by holy living. We believe in the Great Commission as the primary mission of the Church. It is the obligation of all believers to witness, by word and life, to the truths of God's Word. The gospel of the grace of God is to be preached to all the world (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 1:8; 2 Corinthians 5:19-20).
Section 9: Things to Come We believe in the blessed hope (Titus 2:13), the personal and imminent coming of the Lord Jesus Christ to rapture His saints (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18). We believe in the visible and bodily return of Christ to the earth with His saints to establish His promised millennial kingdom (Zechariah 14:4-11; 1 Thessalonians 3:13; Revelation 3:10, 19:11-16, 20:1-6). We believe in the physical resurrection of all human beings—the saints to everlasting joy and bliss on the New Earth, and the wicked to eternal punishment in the lake of fire (Matthew 25:46; John 5:28-29; Revelation 20:5-6, 12-13).
We believe that the souls of believers are, at death, absent from the body and present with the Lord, where they await their resurrection when spirit, soul, and body are reunited to be glorified forever with the Lord (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23, 3:21; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). We believe that the souls of unbelievers remain, after death, in conscious misery until their resurrection when, with soul and body reunited, they shall appear at the Great White Throne judgment and shall be cast into the Lake of Fire to suffer everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:41-46; Mark 9:43-48; Luke 16:19-26; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9; Revelation 20:11-15).
Should a Christian run for political office?
Question: "Should a Christian run for political office?"
Answer: Whether or not Christians should run for political office is one of those “hot-button” issues that provoke strong responses on both sides of the question. There are no direct references in the Bible to Christians running for political office. But there are Christian principles we can bring to bear on the decision whether or not to seek political office. Anyone considering running for office would do well to consider these principles and prayerfully seek God’s will for his/her own life.
There is no doubt that countries where political officials are elected by the citizens are countries that promote freedom. Christians in many countries in this world are oppressed and persecuted, suffering under governments they are powerless to change and governments that hate their faith and silence their voices. These believers preach the gospel of Jesus Christ at risk of their own lives. In the U.S.A., Christians have been blessed with the right to speak about and choose their leaders without fearing for themselves or their families.
The leaders we elect have great influence on our freedoms. They can choose to protect our right to worship and spread the gospel, or they can restrict those rights. They can lead our nation toward righteousness or toward moral disaster. Clearly, the more committed Christians that are part of government—whether at the local, state, or federal level—the more our religious freedoms will be guarded. Christians in politics can effect desperately needed changes in the culture. A prime example is William Wilberforce, a 19th-century English politician who campaigned for decades to end the abominable slave trade that flourished at that time. His campaign was eventually successful, and he is lauded today for his courage and commitment to Christian principles.
At the same time, there is an old saying: “politics is a dirty business.” Politicians, even those with the best of motives, are in danger of being corrupted by a system that deals in power. Those in political office, especially at the federal level, are courted by those who hope to gain favor in an effort to advance their own agendas. Wherever money and power are concentrated, greed and covetousness are always nearby. There is great danger for Christians who are involved in worldly political systems, and great care must be taken to be in that world, but not of it. Perhaps nowhere in life is it more true that “bad company corrupts good character” (1 Corinthians 15:33) than in the seats of political power.
Jesus said that His kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36). The kingdom of Christ is not connected with earthly political systems or national governments, all of which are in rebellion against God. The world Christians are to be concerned with is the spiritual realm, not the temporal. There is nothing wrong with Christians being involved in politics, as long as they remember that we are to be ambassadors for Christ on earth. That is our primary job description, and our goal is to appeal to others to be reconciled to God through Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:20).
So should a Christian run for political office? For some Christians, the answer is a definite no; for others, a definite yes. This is a personal decision that requires prayer and the wisdom only God can provide and which He promises to grant to those who truly seek it (James 1:5). Christian politicians must remember that their duty to the Lord must take precedence over the duties of their office. Paul tells us that whatever we do, we are to do it for the glory of the Lord, not our own (1 Corinthians 10:31; Colossians 3:17). If a Christian does seek office, it should only be if he/she can faithfully execute the duties of that office to the glory of God and without compromising Christian principles.
Why are we so concern about others life style? The one almighty made us all and as human beings we have personal choices less us stay out of the bedrooms of our fellow humans and be more concern with the other problems facing us in American
Exactly. For a party who claims to be in favor of smaller government they sure are worried about who's doing what to whom in the privacy of their own homes. There are far more urgent issues that need to be addressed. Frankly, I don't care who sleeps with who so long as they're not out shooting up malls and schools for example.
With a name like s harma I bet you're faced with a lot of problems in America. I've never had a problem with America. Maybe that's because I'm from here, and a member of the majority, instead of an outsider looking in. Maybe you'd have fewer problems if you were living in India. However, never forget that wherever you go, there you are.
Your comment was offensive and I hope in my heart this is not the way you really believe.
Open ur mind you think thats offensive please lol
Offensive is not a strong enough word for this post, but I understand your restraint in not stooping to name calling level. The veiled suggestion of 'othering' of Dr asha sharma. America is obsessed with sex, and not whether a person is fit for office. Are they qualified by looking at their past actions?Are they concerned with making the people's lives better? If so much attention had not been given to the present President's private life perhaps his public life would have been enough for people to make a decent decision on whether he was suitable or not.
Seriously?? Dude ... Stop being a part of the problem. You are definitely NOT part of the solution. Why IS it that people who claim to be so American also claim that not being born American means you are not welcome?? You pick and choose what works for you? Hardly American. And so not Christian, either.
Carl I am pretty familiar with your typical efforts at smart assery and usually they dont paint you as negative, but this one man eesh.
You seem unaware that the U.S. and the North American continent are vast places. local society and culture varies widely across the 50 states and several territories. Many of our army brats are born and spend many of their early years far from the country and are often sufferers of culture shock when they finally come to their homeland.
People from Washington state and Washington D.C. are likely to be farther apart in culture and custom in many subtle ways then people from the U.K and france or spain etc simply due to the distance that seperates them.
I was born and raised on the west coast, and find people from both north and south of the border from the western half to be more relatable then people from the east coast. My eldest brother moved to PA when he turned 18 and has been there ever since. We barely bother to talk because we have less in common then people in east and west germany did while the wall was up.
There is such a thing as too big, and the U.S. is starting to suffer from just that. I myself support states like texas, alaska, and california leaving the U.S. and becoming countries of their own, each is more then capable of enough natural wealth to be no worse of and in many cases better off then other countries the world over.
It would also shrink the U.S. into a much more manageable size, and give outlets for those unhappy with the U.S. for one reason or another a close, alternative each with its own unique sub culture.
Those are problems wake up its wrong men women women men read the book dont chenge it to fit your mistakes use ur brain
They must of been giveing out diplomas that doctor this is not your we love the world news gay is a sine i pray for them i dont treat them any different but just because you dont stand up for whats fact your scared someone might not like you your follower i pray for you
I could be mistaken, but I believe I saw Mike Pence performing in a drag show a few years ago, at a convention of pedophile priests, to raise money for Trump's presidential campaign. That was before Pence's wife had her sex change. When she was the real man of the family.
The only thing I would like to say to Mike Pence is "Go, girl !!!"
Both this President and his Vice-President have, in my humble opinion, lost any semblance of legitimacy to continue with leading the government of the USA! The straight vs gay, the right of a woman to her own body, (In Texas they wish to convict and then kill the mothers who have a D&C, early termination, so the baby is dead and then these right to lifers kill a person???), and then rip children from their mothers at the border, lie to people, blackmail mothers to save their children, and then "consider to send refugees to Sanctuary Cities to thwart the Democrats??? What monsters are these people?
You're right. I too know a lot of monstrous democrats. I just don't like Trump. That won't make me a turncoat, but I do sometimes vote for a democrat anyway. I vote for who I think will do a good job, regardless of his beliefs. I wish only good Republicans always ran for office, but too often that's not the case. A lot of them seem to have twisted the meaning of Republican beliefs into meaning something else, like they do with those worthless christian Bibles. So, it looks to me now like the only good man who's running for president happens to be gay, and doesn't share most of my beliefs. My hat's off to him nevertheless, and he's got my vote. I might sway a few other Republicans to vote for him too.
Color me a Theocrat....
Thst makes no sence hypocritical in my opinion
That’s great. This man is such a wonderful human being in so many different ways. Impressed by him and how he handles himself.
You should meet some of the monsters who are aborting their babies.
As one of those monsters I tell you this would not have happened if my parents would have not threatened me that I would lose my home. All I could could do is see myself on the street pregnant with nowhere to go trying to raise a child. I didn't know about shelters or help out there. My child would be bi-racial which would habe added to my situation. I was in the middle of 2 groups of people who didn't want to face each other. Neither my love or my parents. To know I would not be loved by my parents and they would hate me was too much to bare.
Before you call us monsters know many of us were just in self survival mode.
So you're ok.... but no one else better sin. You Jesus only allows for you excuses and causes....
Jesus said "“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
What your parents did was wrong.... but what you did.... well it stopped a life. What's worse.... you still feel you have to defend it... after all these years.... so you might be like me.... hauling that heavy load around... cause Jesus doesn't need to see that.... Jesus wants you to tell Him about it... and ask Him for forgiveness.... maybe you've already taken it to Jesus.... and He forgave you... but you can't forgive yourself... I know that kind of sin...
Get up... dust yourself off.... OF COURSE YOU ARE A MONSTER... YOU ARE HUMAN.... that's ok tho... God knew how you were going to turn out long before you were conceived.... so He's probably already forgiven you.
And he can forgive a gay mayor... and take him into the fold just as easily.... the difference is... the gay mayor knows it and accepts it... you're still blaming murder on your parents.
If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Romans 12:18
So nolan god talks to you saying he forgives everyhing lets just sin then say sorry after you must be catholic
There's nothing to forgive. Being gay is a condition of birth, not a choice. Show me where being born anything is a sin.
You do know that stuff about jesus with a sword was added during one of the revisions right? Specifically during the first crusade and was clear propaganda by the church to help incite people to violence.
And humans are not monsters. WTF is wrong with you? We can be monstrous but that is not some universal trait.
Nor is having an abortion as an act of survival out of nature. It is a trait of every species females on earth that if a drought or famine occurs they abandon babies and have miscarriages they intentionally trigger by eating mildly toxic plants so that they can focus on themselves. Because if they die no more babies. As long as they live they can have another.
And Jesus wont be forgiving anyone because he was just a man who died. The diety people like to say he is the avatar/demi god son of is a psychic parasite feeding on the foolishly faithful who unwittingly betray the human race in doing so.
See how easy it is to highlight how ones faith makes them a bad person, just like you want to use someones desperate act when they were young to call them a monster.
News flash Carl elfstrom is a class clown smart ass type on these forums. the fact you are parroting him while being serious is worthy of an infinite double face palm.
The real monster is the god you betray your race for. Lucifer is far more relatable and likable because basically his entire fall is the exact same story as in the last samurai. A loyal and zealous warrior that sees his lord as having becoming too focused on the new at the cost of the old. Willing to rebel not out of hate or anger but out of love and loyalty. Only to become fallen in the eyes of his lord because those advising the lord say he is the enemy.
Then practice safe sex
You are not a monster. You are a human, with human failings, who made a decision based on what YOUR situation was at the time. Don't listen to the posters here - they judge you by their standards. God forgives all. Hopefully you are out of your family's clutches now, an independent woman who can no longer feel shamed by them. You need to be around people who love you, accept you, and help should you need it. God bless you.
You're not a monster. These so called "right to life" screechers refuse to help either a woman in crisis before a birth or after. All they want is to deny you sovereignty over your own body.
There are no monsters, only people who are just human. Birth control should be the responsibility of men and women. So far it's all on women with men in background making decisions for her. Sex is natural and normal, not being control of your body should not be seen as normal.
Who granted you the power to judge anyone?
'less-grey': Jesus granted us the power to judge. John 7:24; Luke 17:3. among others. Discernment, rebuking, evaluating involve judgment. Don't you read your Bible?
SMH. Do you think you can pack any more off topic ATDS liberal mantras into one paragraph?
First off Rev you should be ashamed of yourself you as a Christian knows that the Bible that you preach from says if you sleep with another man all a woman sleeps with another woman that this is a sin you reverie as a preacher as a Christian allows these things to happen including abortion is a sin the Bible states to protect the unborn child in the womb think about it there is no how no way what they are doing today gay marriage is a sin abortion is a sin and USA rev a man of the cloth is committing a sin by allowing and saying this is okay God said it's not okay
Punctuation is your friend.
Thats a you got from that ken thats sad
You're easily saddened.
Trying to decipher what you just said Alex I can see that English and grammar are not your friend.
Amen to that brother.
Thats what its about you two read it or dont
Then keep scrolling down and keep my name of your comment
Amen to that Alex
Freddy i couldn't agree more those are facts some people just think they can twist it to make what they are doing justified
Homosexuality is not in scripture.
'less grey'; Your lack of scholarship, honesty, and intellect are as obvious as dog balls!
Look at Leviticus 18;1 Corinthians 6:9,10; Galatians 5:19-21; Romans 1:26-28 Deuteronomy 22:5. There are numerous other references.
Basically, homosexuality is defying God's original 'man and woman' marriage concept as shown early in the book of Genesis. Jesus underscored this in Matthew 19:4,5.
Scholars and experts a lot smarter than you and I concur that these references point to homosexuality.
Freddy i agree 100%
So your pro gay why are you on this site
Jerry, you are sooo funny. Your statement is a joke...right?
You have a problem speak up lion sarcasm is a kids game
Wow! Alex. I take it then, that you think Jerry was serious...right?
Lighten up! Don't take life so seriously.
i am for equal rights and not trash
Thats a hole different site in my opinion you shouldbe saying that
Dont listen to the lion he knows what ur saying i write fast so i miss spell
WHAT?! Be gay and devoutly Christian?! Impossible! That's antithetical!
'Christian' mean: like Christ; follower of Christ. Christ NEVER condoned homosexuality! In Matthew 19:4,5 Christ underscores the 'man & wife' concept; and refers to God's original design listed early in the book of Genesis. A homosexual lifestyle is sin, perverse and abnormal. Times may change, but God's law is eternal, unchanging, and righteous.
I'm sorry.... I've been reading the Bible for years and years..... I have a real hard problem with people who pick and choose which laws from Deuteronomy and Leviticus that they will honor.
Back then.... if a woman became a widow.... her brother-in-law had to sleep with her and get her pregnant so his brother's name would continue..... should we go by that?
How about the one about adultery.... when a man and a woman enter an adulterous relationship today... should we drag them out in the street and stone them to death? No one would tolerate that today.
Yes... it is called abominable.... in the beginning... before sin... the idea was to populate the earth.... homosexuality would hinder that....
It could also be called abominable because "good Christians" misinterpret the scriptures... specifically John 3:16 causing the loss of so many souls.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
It doesn't say only the circumcised, or those who will promise to never eat pork, or only those who read the KJV, or only the ones that the priests say are ok, or only the ones who haven't had a beer or a glass of wine, or only the ones who live in this spot and earn this amount and drive this kind of chariot.
It says WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH..... Jesus loves everyone....
When Jesus was asked "which law".... He said there are only two..... Some would say that since those who are gay are "abnormal" God doesn't want them..... now I ask you.... who are you to decide what is normal.... when Jesus Himself said "whoever believes". Jesus sat down to dinner with a despised deceitful tax collector because the tax collector "Believed".
There's no first you get right and then ..... Jesus accepted everyone who believes.... even if they don't fit your vision of the perfect human.
Jesus even died for the ignorant.
Read more god lives everone thst dosent mean the sin is ok wake up .You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. 23 iAnd you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is jperversion.
What! Being a big mouthed bigot is a sin too.....
Look... I was ignorant like you once too. They call that having just enough Bible to get you in trouble.
Jesus didn't get along with rich people.... and now the rich people run the churches....
Let's go to Revelation.... only one in seven churches made the cut... and that one only made it by the skin of their belief.
I know a "good Christian", a proud mother of a pastor... who sponsors Bible Studies in her home.... but she's a baby killer.... she had an abortion because the "timing" was all wrong. She should got to heaven... because she's "normal"?
What about the guy who discovered "stem cell"? He delivered a baby just until the neck was available.... plunged a knife into it's spine... killing it.... so he could harvest some "stem cells". How does that guy get to the "good Christian" list?
Yet.... every day.... those horrible homosexuals are "not allowed" to hear the gospel because people like you have judged them as unworthy.... more unworthy than a "good Christian" who would murder an innocent baby..... for "timing" or to "harvest" the parts.
Wake up.... Jesus allowed Himself to be hung on that cross of EVERYONE who BELIEVES... Thank God.... if it was left up to some "good Christians" none of us would be good enough to see Heaven.
Sorry... to be so blunt... Jesus still loves you...
I agree with you well said You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. 23 iAnd you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is jperversion.
I am tired of reading the same verses over and over, it is as if those are the only verses you can find. Thank goodness that others do not stoop to pulling verses to defend their point, but use reason. Worse, you call yourself a loving Christian, but hate others. A Christian is someone who believes in Christ and should be following the New Testament, not the old to defend their point of view.
Grow up and release your hate because Christ taught love. It seems for many Christians hate has become their religion.
Why abortion is part of this discussion is ridiculous, this is about whether Christians should accept LGBT people for who they are, not what they are.
Clear and very well said. Thanks.
Well said those are are in the book thank you for not letting the world change your what you believe in
Sin denotes a willful choice to commit an act that is known to be wrong. How can a condition of birth be a sin?
'less grey': We ALL inherited Adam's sin nature. All sin, as well as the LGBTQxyz-ers lifestyle, is a condition of birth. BUT, God provided an escape. through Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross.
flugo, it’s all myth and fantasy, unless you can prove otherwise.
What part is fantasy
Gosh, where would you like me to start? Adam & Eve? The flood? A virgin birth? A talking ass? A talking snake? A woman being turned to salt? Water being turned to wine? A man walking on water? A man being swallowed by a fish and living in its stomach? A man parting the sea with his staff? A god?
These are just a few. There are many more on this blog who could add lots more, but thank you for asking, Alex.
If we're right.... we get to live in Heaven..... If you're right... we're cosmic dust.... I prefer Heaven.... so I'll keep believing....
There's still time... All you have to do is Believe that a man [more God than human, we admit] allowed Himself to be hung, naked, on a cross... even though He was totally innocent.... so you wouldn't have to....
I know it's a lot to ask... but hey.... being nice to someone actually makes me feel better.... Believe... that's all He asks... He'll supply the rest....
Yes directortice you are quite right. We either become cosmic dust or there really is a heaven and hell. I’m sure it’s nice to hedge your bets and go with the Heaven option. There are many on this blog who it seems have made the same choice as yourself, though by their rhetoric and rude remarks I think they’ll be joining me in Hell ? ? ?
Thank you for you pleasant remarks. You are one of the very few Christian’s that seem fun, and educated, to chat with on here. I wish more were like you.
I’m sure there are some that say Gay marriage took them away from God and brought them to their senses. We can but hope! ?
I agree with dr asha sharma and Rev. Rene. Jesus said that the only Commandment was TO LOVE. And it seems that Pete loves God and others well. That is all. Jesus told us not to judge others, and we learn in the Bible that we are ALL CREATED IN GOD'S IMAGE. God does NOT have a gender, sooooo I don't see that as a function of "God-ness." It was said that people of other races did not love, that they were "less than." Welllll, have we proven that wrong yet??? Look at the poor Refugees on our southern border. THEY ARE ALSO MADE IN GOD'S IMAGE. They demonstrate LOVE more than the GOP leadership ever will. Love is patient and kind. Love is not envious..... If we have not charity, WE ARE NOTHING. Jesus, REDUCE Us TO LOVE. That is the message and the life of Jesus. We are ORDERED to Love Others. No Matter What. Of other races, handicapped, LGBTQ, of other countries, of other religions. Jesus changed the Old Testament. Even those who wrote the New Testament agree that Jesus was beyond comprehension, God's Love is beyond their comprehension or their own personal issues/biases. How would we wish to be treated? With compassion and acceptance and understanding.
'"'rev' crass tina" 'Reverend'?! Whew! And NOT even knowing what Jesus said! I hope you don't teach Bible to other unsuspecting viewers. .
You're in gross error when you suggest we are not to judge. In Luke 17:3 Jesus told us to rebuke the errant. Rebuking involves discernment and judgement. And in John 7:24 He taught us how to judge . . . . . 'rightly'. So, your ''not to judge others' is crap.
And 'reverend', Jesus NEVER said the ONLY. commandment was love! He listed two main commandments that encapsulated the rest of the commandments. But He NEVER said what you so badly misquoted!
Are you suggesting Jesus' countless statements like: Be ye kind one to another; Repent; Turn the other cheek; Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, etc. are just nice little suggestions? Or, are they 'commandments'?
It's disheartening to find 'reverends' who misquote, distort, manipulate the Scriptures.
Yes it is a shame when someone misquotes or misinterprets or takes a scripture out of context.
Luke 17 is not talking about EVERYONE as John 3:16 is. Luke 17 is talking about "brothers and sisters".... IN CHRIST.... Luke 17 calls for us to be vigilant about the errant ways of those who are already saved.... pointing out their mistakes just like a mother teaches her child to walk.
Please understand... I mean no disrespect... but Jesus said that ANYONE who BELIEVES in Him will not parish. He wants EVERYONE to have a chance to decide for themselves.
If you withhold the gospel, or distort it by taking things out of context or misinterpreting them purposely.... from a person you "judge" to be abnormal.... then you are pulling that millstone around your own neck.
You can "judge" a brother or sister in Christ because you are on equal footing.... you are supposed to offer a hand to anyone who needs it... and EVERYONE EVERYWHERE needs to hear the gospel.
Even if you think the mole on their nose makes them a witch.
It dosent mean you dont love everone the fact is you can twist all you want but doesn't make them facts sin is sin what part is so hard to get looks to me your just feeding into whats being on with yhe world you sound like a follower
It does .... that's DOES... It DOES mean that you love everyone.
It DOES mean that we are to tell everyone.... EVERYONE about Jesus. It's not up to us to point out the beer in a person's hand before telling him about Jesus. It's not up to us to point out the lie on someone's lips before telling him about Jesus. It does not matter what the pamphlet says about gay rights... before telling him about Jesus. It doesn't matter if their clothes are clean... or they are circumcised....or they eat pork... or they are not the same skin tone.... EVERYONE needs to hear.....
Then the ball is out of your court....
I just read in Psalm 46 "Be still, and know that I am God".
It's not up to us to decide who hears the Good News. It's not up to us to decide who should see the light of Christ in our Lives. It's our mission... and if you withhold Christ from someone.... you are going to fail your mission.
It's not for me to Judge.... I didn't create the universe.... I'm not twisting anything.... EVERYONE should hear....
One sin is no bigger than another.... ANY sin causes a person to be separated from God... it's up to God to deal with it..... God created splinters and logs... and He does not have splinters or logs in His eyes.... like we do.
God sent His Son so that WHOEVER BELIEVES will have eternal life. Jesus, His Son, healed the sick, fed the poor, taught love, and brought the dead back to life. The leaders of the church despised Jesus.... they refused to BELIEVE that Jesus was the Son of God. They arrested Him, they held a mock trial with fake witnesses, they beat Him, they paraded Him through the busy city street.... beaten, bloody, and half naked.... they took Him out of the city... nailed Him to a Cross... naked.... while the guards gambled for this clothes... He hung there... forgave us... and then died.... they put Him in a borrowed tomb... they planned to come back as soon as possible to embalm Him.... but when they came back... after three days.... the tomb was open and Jesus was gone.... He had Risen.... He got up and walked out of that tomb.
He met with His disciples a couple of times after that... he spoke with followers... He walked beside people without them realizing it was Him.
Then He rose... in plain site.... He went up to.... He conquered death....
He wants you to have eternal life. His dad is building a place for you in Heaven.... all you have to do is BELIEVE.... listen to that little voice saying.... she might be right....
Given most have absolutely no idea what the Bible says as they have not even read it, let alone studied it to learn its historicity and culture, it does not really surprise me to see such nonsense about "homosexuality being an abomination." The ONLY place where I have actually seen it even mentioned, and not just open to vague assumption, would be newer versions of the Bible in 1:Cor 6:9-10. If you even look at the KJV1611, you would see it does not even mention it. It is only a fairly recent addition to newer Bibles, which, if one recalls, Jesus said something about that - something about "adding to or taking away from the Word of God, not one jot, not one tittle".
you are the pot calling the kettle black for you too are clueless on the ancient manuscripts and the translations that were used to write the KJV in 1611. Bad news for the gays...you are not going to make it according to God, you will experience the second and final death. Your kind rely on the new and improved and very different Jesus in your main stream religion / churches / denominations and ignorance does not justify filthy abominations period.
Dan Check againYou shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. 23 iAnd you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is jperversion.
If you read as mu h as you run your mouth about knowing so much you would have read that part
I'm sure most of them got away from that evil and terribly distorted christian misconception of our creator, and came to their senses, long before they thought about Gay marriage.
He is absolutely right...people attack gays out of fear, and use "God" as a justification...the reality is that we were all created by, and equal under, God...which, again, is why evolution and creation are the same...Peace...Tom B
'tomb': Show me the evidence that we were all created 'equal' under God!
flugo...Respectfully...why does there have to be evidence?...don't you have any intuition or faith?...i do not have to prove anything...and as a Member of the ULC, are you taking the position that we are not all equal under God?...Peace...Tom B
'tomb' If your belief system foundation is based on intuition, faith, ULC's stance, etc. you're on shaky ground. God's Word is the only true, reliable source for a life worthwhile.
flugo...Respectfully...i am not the one on "shaky ground"...of that i am certain...i pray for you to open your awareness...Peace...Tom B
If you have to ask God to forgive you for something that you think it's right. then it's totally wrong. and for he knoweth to do good and do it not, to him it's a sin. there you go.
So.... When a man pulls out.... then he should be put to death.... that's Biblical... God did it.
So... The only people in the world that God loves are the circumcised.... that's Biblical.... God made all the men be circumcised.... [like He couldn't have circumcised you before you got in the womb if He wanted to].... still they argued about that just as passionately in the early church.
John 3:16..... says Whosoever Believeth..... not whoever does want the Rev. Don says is holy.
Should the adulterers, drunks, liars, thieves, and rapist get to heaven but a man who was raped by a priest when he was young, now stays away from the priests and sells his body on the streets because; even tho he believes in Jesus, the priest said he would never see heaven....should not?
Who are you to judge..... we aren't supposed to withhold the Good News from anyone.... We're supposed to spread the Good News all over the earth.... we're supposed to sew the seeds everywhere.... and God will make sure the right ones grow. God can grow a cactus out of an tiny crack in a rock...
Who are you to judge....
Shame on you all... stop being ignorant... read the book... study it... it'll tell you... Jesus didn't judge.... that's good enough for me!
You need to read abook its not judgeing people are saying its a sin You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. 23 iAnd you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is jperversion. it says so in the bible
'dire tortoise': 'Jesus didn't judge' That'a good one! Out of where did you pull that one?
Matthew 7:6, 15-15; 23:23 shows Jesus making judgments and labeling the offenders publicly!?
So, Jesus didn't judge? What other 'nuggets of truth' have you?
Back in the day... while Jesus was teaching..... if I said so in so did such and such.... and I got someone else to agree with me.... so in so would be found guilty and consequences would be swift.
Their court system was built on two witnesses. Whenever two witnesses were available to testify against someone.... then they were guilty.
Just to make the point clear... the reason there is 1st & 2nd Kings and Chronicles.... the reason the law is stated both in Deuteronomy and in Leviticus .... is to show two witnesses.
There were so many laws back then that a person couldn't wipe their nose without fearing doing so in an improper direction my cause them to get their nose cut off.
Jesus was not one to Judge... He taught people... He taught them to value God and value themselves.
Jesus sat down with the sinner... while the government rode on the sinners back... weighing him down more... so he would falter..... Jesus on the other hand lifted that sinner up... and pulled him to his feet.. and made him steady.
Spend a little more time in the Word instead of watching Olsteen teach selfishness... and you might find that Jesus wasn't here to make us happy... He was here to conquer death.
I plan to live forever.... and I plan to tell others how to live forever as well... Heaven is a big place... there's plenty of room.
'dire tortoise': 'Jesus was not one to judge'?! What about the verses from Matthew I showed you? You have 'crawfished' and wriggled around them. Where's your intellectual honesty? Your previous response was a bunch of irrelevant mumbo jumbo.
Did Jesus judge? Yes? No? Do we believe the Bible, or you?
Like I said.... Jesus is the Son of God.... He is perfectly capable and yep... responsible for judging all of the humans.
We don't have any right to judge our fellow humans.... they are human just like us.... they have the same logs in their eyes as we do.... not one of us is perfect so not one of us can throw the first stone.
Jesus will decide who will be our brothers and sisters. They will be fellow believers.... and yes... when we see our FELLOW BELIEVERS doing something that might cost someone their Salvation.... we are supposed to point it out.
We are not to judge someone who is NOT a Believer.... that responsibility belongs to the Father and the Son.
We are only supposed to tell people about Jesus and His offer of Salvation. Jesus said.... many will be called and few will answer.... so those who don't care won't respond... there's no need for cherrypicking who gets the message.... Jesus was there when we were created [John 1:1] so He [as the Son of God] knows how the story ends.... and He knows who is going to respond.... that's not for us to say.
We agree that Jesus is the Judge. We agree that we are to remind our brothers and sisters IN CHRIST when they start off the path.
We only seem to disagree that EVERYONE who BELIEVES will have eternal life.
Or do we?
Wow... I must have been asleep when I posted that.... Jesus is the Judge... He's the Son of God... or course He's a Judge....
WE AREN'T to judge who should receive the word.... we are not to judge others who are non-believers.... we're supposed to tell them the good news.... that's all...
WE ARE supposed to remind our BELIEVING brothers and sisters IN CHRIST when we see them getting off the trail.
Exactly! So that’s (judging) not for us humans to do, that’s for God to do.
See... now I thought you meant I [me myself] could judge....
Jesus is God... so of course He could judge... I think our point is....
WE'RE not supposed to judge.....
We're suppose to tell everyone.... that's all... just pass the Word... we're not supposed to cherrypick who to tell it to.... just tell everyone....
Jesus loves you.... He wants you to join Him.... We're ALL miserable stupid humans... none of us deserve anything other than to turn into worm food..... but then Jesus still loves us and He's offered us something different.... other than just the grave....
'rainy': You must be related to 'dire tortoise'!
Jesus taught us to judge, be discerning and evaluative. John 7:23; Luke 17:3 among many other references.
You ought to do your homework before 'enlightening' us about your 'scholarly' comments.
People attack out of ignorance. If we are going to live by the old Testament standards.... then marriage is going to change. In the same book that our fellow "good Christians" use.... the marriage of a childless widow to a brother so that the name of the dead would not die was law... yet we don't see our "good Christians" talking that one up.... as a matter of fact.... the poor brother would be the subject of scorn in our society today.... people would say the widow and her brother-in-law must have been having an affair.
On top of that.... banking would have to change if we went back to the Old Testament law. What happened to Jubilee years.... when all debt was forgiven?
Most of us haven't read the Old Testament. Those of us who have read it [the ones with any sense] are really glad we're not living under Old Testament law. Adulterers were stoned to death..... people are upset today because this is still going on in one country. Today humans would call the stoning of an adulterer a human rights violation.
Jesus will open a relationship with whomever He pleases. It's not for us to choose. Remember.... how upset stupid humans got when Jesus had dinner at the tax collector's home? We aren't God and we cannot begin to know what is really best for humanity. We don't throw oxen and lambs on the altar anymore.... Christ gave His life.... and ANYONE who believes in Him will have everlasting life.
That's just the way it is.... I would suggest we all sit down and read the books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus.... before we start blasting either opposing side.... at least one of them is being a chicken or counting on the ignorant.....
You should take some of your own advice inless you and god talk all time then excuse me
You are excused. https://forums.somd.com/forums/religion.30/
'Devoutly Christian AND gay'?! Impossible! It's antithetical!
Christian mean Christ-like; follower of Christ. NO where dis Christ ever condone homosexuality!
In Matthew 19:4,5, Jesus underscored the concept of husband and wife. He, also, referred to God's original design of marriage: man and woman.
The homosexual lifestyle is sinful, perverted and abnormal.
BUT, God's remedy for this malady (and ALL sin) is Jesus and His sacrificial work on the cross.
Let me just re-post the answer here..... this is what I think Jesus would think about this thread..... I think the two sins match pretty close... both carry a death penalty in the Old Testament....
John 8:At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11 “No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
YOU ARE SO RIGHT>>>>>> JESUS TOOK CARE OF THIS ON THE CROSS
Flugo... I paint rocks... I pick up river rocks, wash them, paint them with acrylic paint... on one side I put a picture... on the other I copy a proverb or another verse from the Bible. Then I seal them and give them away.
It's interesting to me that two "Christians" are discussing picking up rocks to stone a sinner... or laying down a rock and extending a hand up to a fellow stupid ignorant human.
I guess this presidential candidate will get people talking and maybe some souls will be won!
Flugo Marx, Matthew 19:5-6 says that "a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one", but it doesn't say that the wife has to be a woman and so it could certainly be another man. There were de facto male wives long before modern times and back in Jesus' time, too, and these Bible verses have to be made relevant to our lives today or else really just be totally discarded, as are all of the other useless lumber and wreckage of past philosophies and religions. Men who are as effeminate as many women should certainly be suitable for the same role as women hold in a marriage and love between any two people is love---period!!
He would be a great President and if people use his sexuality to attack him and use the bible to justify the attack they not only are hyprocrits they are uncomfortable with their own sexuality and in their own skin. I hope God will bring all these self haters to their senses so they will stop projecting that self hate onto others. The Trump government is peddling hate and division and its not about Liberal vs Right wing nationalist its about the future for younger generations and it's about LOVE for self, others and country. VOTE LOVE and to protect the USA from falling into the hands of Russia and other foreign powers. Trump, Barr and the supreme court are poised to dismantal democracy right before your eyes and everyone is still watching it unfold. Gay marrage is a beautiful thing and a human right, May god bless you all with love in your hearts and to resist the hate, homophobic vile sluurs that will only eat at your soul and inmune system.
You sound like a news channel trump this russia god has a book out you should read it
An epitome of an oxymoron: 'devoutly Christian gay'! Such an idea is absurd and incongruous!
'Like Christ' and 'follower of Christ' best describe the term 'Christian'. Yet, Christ NEVER approved homosexuality!
We find in Matthew 19:5,6 that Christ supported the concept of 'man and wife'. He, also, made reference to God's original design of marriage as stated in the early chapters of the book Genesis - man and woman.
A homosexual lifestyle is sinful, perverted and abnormal.. . . . definitely NOT Christian!
Just as big an epitome of an oxymoron as a self righteous bigot spouting the same tired argument.
It's not up to you to judge..... Judgement is God's chore....
Just preach "Jesus on the Cross" .... He'll do the rest....
Don't worry... there won't be anyone in Heaven that doesn't meet God's standards.... all you have to worry about is your own self....
Cherrypicking who hears the Word.... I don't think that's Biblical.....
In the parable of the seeds.... even the seed on the rock bloomed.... it just didn't have a good root system.... it depended on God...
What is 'Christian'? It is 'Christ-like',' follower of Christ'. So, then, the expression 'gay and devoutly Christian' is impossible in its concept.
Jesus was a 'man and wife' supporter. In Matthew 19:4&5, He also referenced God's original marriage design as listed in the early part of the book of Genesis.
Jesus NEVER espoused the homosexual lifestyle. So, the term 'gay and devoutly Christian' is false.
Flugo Marx, the term "bigot and devoutly Christian" is even more truly false than you falsely think "gay and devoutly Christian" is because Jesus was always arguing against the religious bigots and self-righteous fools of his time, such as you, while never arguing with any gay people, as he would have even more if he had thought that they were worse than the Pharisees. But that has never stopped you and other religious bigots and Pharisees from thinking that you are "Jesus' true representatives" here and can point out how "wrong" gay and other people are, compared to you, the same as the Pharisees did!! Gay people are certainly more Christian than something like you!! Jesus never said anything against gay people, as he certainly would have if he had thought that they were worse than the Pharisees. He only mentioned "man and woman marriage" (actually, a man and his wife, which could have been another man) because that is all that he knew about or saw around him there, but would certainly have mentioned gay marriage and his approval of that love, too, if he had known about it, since he was gay himself. His having only male disciples (and a few women camp followers) proves that, as does John the disciple's being "the one whom Jesus loved" and who rested his head on Jesus' shoulder at the Last Supper and the boy who ran away from Jesus naked after his arrest. All other homophobic verses in the Bible were the thoughts of bigots and just put into "God's mouth". Case closed and enough said to you!!
Jesus was a Heretic by the opinions of the leaders of the day; Because he renounced the Vengfull Petty "god" that had been created by Power Hungry in the vacuum; of past ignorance of Scientific Explanations of Causes and medical preventions of Death and Suffering; Instead he Taught Tolerance; Promoted Equality and forgiveness. So They Killed Him thus Creating a Martyr; whose words They could manipulate... In the Next 2,000 years the Power brokers in Churches and Kingdoms have Perverted his teachings to Serve their goals of Dominance thru Fear and Jealousy; Fought Wars of Colonialism; and Justified Slavery and Genocide in his Name.. In his Time, "Foot Washing" was Slang for Love making (somehow that got by the translators;) So Ye who would Stone Those of Different Sexual orientations Might Start with Your "Savior".. Oh Wait,You've Already Killed him; Many Times...? First on the Cross; Then By Killing in His Name all These 2 Thousand Years.. Any of Those that would Judge Mayor Pete? Just Look at the pictures and ignore the words; even as he speaks the words that Pence Call an Attack on freedom of "His religion" He has A Kindly Openness and Caring Look; While Pence has The Squint and Tight Smug Smile of an Entitled Self Righteous Prig. The Eyes are a Window To the Soul; and the nature of ones Smile Shows Caring; or Other intentions...
Pete ButtIgieg is horribly WRONG!
It's impossible for his gay lifestyle to have brought him 'closer to God'. And, his speaking of quarrels . . . . . God is going to have a 'quarrel' with Pete's erroneously stating his repugnant behavior enhanced his proximity toward God. Sin CANNOT exist in the presence of the loving, righteous, and forgiving God.
The practicing LGBTQxyz-ers' lifestyles defy God's original intentions for His crowning creation to live decent, moral, civil, productive lives.
'fluked toe', to play your own name game, you are horribly WRONG!!! because Jesus argued against and condemned self-righteous Pharisees, such as yourself, far more than the "sinners" and tax collectors and harlots and, no doubt, homosexuals, and hung around them and not the "righteous" people. By your own standard, your bigotry and self-righteousness, which is the bigger sin and the one that Jesus condemned most, "CANNOT exist in the presence of the loving, righteous, and forgiving God". How about practicing some of that love and understanding and forgiveness that God is showing toward even you toward gay people?
Why is Pete Buttigieg "horribly WRONG!", according to you, fluke-o, and not you who is actually horribly WRONG, since Jesus condemned self-righteous Pharisees and people such as yourself far more than he did the "sinners", tax collectors, harlots, and, no doubt, homosexuals, and hung out with them and not with the "righteous" people? How about showing some of that same understanding, love, and forgiveness toward gay people tbaf God even shows toward you?
We will let God deal with this one
And He most certainly will!
Possibly, if god exists! However, if god doesn't exist Pete Buttigieg will have a lived a very loving life, sharing his love with someone that loves him, and his loving memory will live on with those he shared his life with.
Wow you watch alot of lifetime movies everything is sunshine and rainbows lol
Your ignorent you just say things to get a rise out of people god is they all mighty creator
Well, Marisa and Alex, I assume you don't believe in the gods Thor, Odin, Dionysus, Ares, Athena, Apollo, et al so perhaps you can tell me what reasonable logic you used to prove they didn't exist, and then tell me how you applied that same logic to your god to convince you that yours is real?
Whether God exists or not, Pete is just another person with his feelings and thoughts. Whether he lives a loving life or shares his love with someone who loves him is really not for us to know, nor judge, not be concerned with. Each of us has our hands full with ourself.
Perfect. And what I’ve heard from Pete he is a very good person and I’d be proud as anything to have him represent me and my country.
It's crazy how 98% of the population does not know the word of God. God does not create people, men and women have children, God was part of one birth, Jesus Christ.
This site had such potential for being a place where people of various beliefs and faiths could express themselves freely - and where we could learn from each other.
I've grown weary of checking in and finding the same simplistic comments posted by those who consider the Bible to be the incontrovertible authority on matters of sexual orientation or gender identity. They appear not to understand - or care - that not everyone shares their beliefs. And I cannot and will not abide anyone who assumes a moral high ground and takes the "God will get you" approach, as if he or she knows something I don't.
Face it, folks. None of us knows. We only believe, one way or another, and that's the definition of faith.
I don't countenance using religion as a weapon, and I choose to leave the presence of those who do so.
That's because most people haven't read it for themselves. Most people rely on what other people tell them it says.
Fifty years ago... the only translation I could get my hands on was a KJV... and I can not understand that version no matter how hard I try.... and I was raised in the Baptist Church. If I had known how to use the sword fifty years ago.....
How many preachers have you heard who could really preach the story of the camel passing through the needle? Still we're so willing to take the splinter out of someone else's eye..... we ignorant humans.
How are you seeing it as a weapon
Yes, God was part of one birth. It didn’t go down at all well with Mary’s lover, Joseph, but what do you say to a god seeing him with your betrothed? You can’t just bonk him on the nose can you. I mean, look what happened to Lots wife when she made god angry, not to mention how he took his anger out on Pharaoh. Jeeeeez!
How do you define what Love is? LOVE IS LOVE Mark 12:29-30 You shall love the Lord with all your heart , with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment.
Mark 12:31 You shall love your neighbor as yourself! There is no other commandment greater than these.
Love has no Color Love has no gender Love has no Nationality Love has no political party or affiliation! Jesus did not say hate your neighbor if he is a different race than you - Jesus did not say hate your neighbor if he or she is different from you - Jesus said LOVE your neighbor as yourself! That’s the bottom line - JESUS taught/commanded us to love one another! ✝️
Yes we should love the Lord with all of of our heart, with all of our soul, with all of our mind......HANG ON!!! Isn’t the Lord a man, wearing a type of dress, and we are being told to love him? My wife, wouldn’t be very pleased about that. Don’t get me wrong, if he’s gay I’m okay with it. Just don’t ask me to sit on his lap and give him a hug.
Look it up You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. 23 iAnd you shall not lie with any animal and so make yourself unclean with it, neither shall any woman give herself to an animal to lie with it: it is jperversion.
Look it up.... there were fake temples and religions all around where people would have orgies as part of the worship. Some religions even fired up a metal idol until it glowed and sacrificed a baby during the worship.
God was telling humans that they shouldn't do that... it wasn't necessary.... Yes.... God wants humans to survive and homosexual activity is not procreative. On the other hand, those couples who can produce seem to prefer to throw the "fetus" on the Molechian idol instead of bringing another gift from God into the world.
Consider the people we're talking about here... A man who believes in God.... that's a good thing.
Put it in context.... read the five books.... even though they are terribly boring.... it all boils down to the same thing....
If God calls you... it doesn't matter who you are or what you look like or who you know or what you said or what you did or what you think you were going to do.... if God calls you .... and you Believe.... it'll all work out.... He guarantees.... and being God... He doesn't Lie.
It might be worth remembering here that the United States is (and is meant to be) a SECULAR republic. As a minister I will not bless a gay union because I believe that homosexuality violates the Order of Creation. Having said that, I fully support the rights of those whose beliefs differ from my own.
And that is exactly why people like me exist. As an ordained minister and as a grey jedi, I will be more than happy to take the mantle that you leave behind for, in my opinion, a ridiculous reason. But hey, everyone has a different view on things! And that should be respected to a certain degree.
Am I seeing Christian ministers of the ULC condemn people for who they love, based on what Leviticus and Deuteronomy have written? Maybe some of you should re-read the tenets and beliefs of ULC. ULC accepts all, glbt, straight, pagan, etc.
Thank you Richard. I am appalled that there are so many judgemental folks here. Jesus threw out Leviticus and Deuteronomy when he established his kingdom. I joined the ULC because of their beliefs and tenets. I am closer to Jesus in my relationship with Him then I ever was when I was hating myself for being what I am. NONE of us would get to the Christian heaven on our own merits. Jesus is the only way we can. I read his teachings.
This is not Leviticus or Deuteronomy. So, it doesn't apply either? ULC is not "Christian". It is fundamentally secular. (ESV) 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
You do realize that there were places of worship, even in the days of Jesus, where sex was part of the religious service.
Move on to Revelation, then, and look at what Jesus had to say about the churches.... out of seven churches... only one got a halfway decent review and that was only by the skin of their belief system.
Still... Jesus did sit down with the tax collector...
Let's not forget that the Book of Revelation was supposedly written on the Isle of Patmos. This is an Island well known for its abundance Fly Agaric mushrooms, or Amanita muscaria. They are very well known for their hallucinogenic properties, but may be better classified as a deliriant. Ever wondered why that book was so hard to understand? Some very strange visions were written about in that book. I'm sure psychoactive substances have a lot to answer for in some of these early writings. I think John must have been quite the hippie in his day, and I don't mean John Lennon ?
You can read more about psychedelic visions here: http://entheology.com/peoples/revelation-a-psychdelic-vision/
I've often figured John had to be really close to delusional. He was, after all, stuck on an Island. He spent a lot of time alone.
Here's another take.... John was a friend of Jesus of Nazareth.... who did all kinds of fantastic things..... John saw Jesus walk on water.... feed thousands out of nothing more than a few fish and loaves... healed the sick and brought people back from the tomb..... just to name a few....
At the end of Jesus' teaching tours... there seemed to always be crowds around John.... and then John was left alone on an island.... totally alone... to process it all... and then figure out.... why did it happen? and where do we go from here?
I'm sure that put a crease or two in John's brain.
God Will; Let us say you drop dead from an heart attack at my feet. I need to pounder the question about your fate since God gave you that heart attack. Do I bring you back to life and make God mad at me. While your family would be over joyed with your return, God on the other hand will not. Your expected to meet God and if I bring you back to life. You get the point. So mankind fate is made by God or is it in the hands of mortals. The Bible is created by man as was the Torah or the Qur'an or any other religious texts. What ever is in those books was made by man and you know man not the wisest monkey on the planet.
I think it's more a combination..... Humans have free will. God controls Time and Space. Since God knows how everything turns out..... He knows what decision you will make before you ever make it.... and if you should decide that you will change your decision to try to throw off the sequence of life... He knows in advance that you're going to do that too.
I generally knew when my daughters or my son was about to hit their head... and I could put my hand out to prevent it because I knew in advance... it's like that... only way way way way bigger!.... ;)
That's how I figure it.
The majority of these comments once again prove that the hate (and ignorance, if you can go by the many misspellings) of professed 'christians' is alive and well. They hoist the bible, wave the flag, and march against anything and anyone that doesn't or won't conform to their twisted way of thinking.
Because that is what they were taught. They were deprived of the Word of God. They were fed the garbage of humans. Humans think they know it all.... that's how the sheep get backed up on a cliff with nowhere else to go......
What hate its opinions and facts ignorence and spelling who cares they might have slot to say
Why am I thinking you’ve just proved Bob’s point Alex?
Hows that you expert
4 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
God is bigger than the Bible. Or to put it another way, the Bible is not God. Read Acts Chapter 15, and you will see how the apostles dealt with commands in the scriptures (in that case, following Jewish law) which did not square with daily living. They decided the Bible was wrong. Christians have been doing the same thing ever since. We no longer believe slavery is acceptable (Paul was wrong about that), nor the women should be silent in the churches.
It is time to say the Bible is wrong about homosexuality.
Besides, the writers of the Bible (Including Paul) had no conception of same sex marriage.
I thought the point of becoming a minister with the Universal Life Church was to offer help to people who may not receive it from traditional christian denominations. If someone is not receptive to LGBTQ people, he or she should stick with the denominations that share your view. ULC should resist being politicized by people who have a negative view of God's children in any way, shape or form.
Sharon...i agree...as i have said before, to me the ULC stands for the equality of everyone...Peace...Tom
Plain out and simple homosexuality is a CHOICE! You are physically born as a Male or a female! Nothing anyone can say here can change that fact! You choose the behavior of being attracted to the same sex. You are not born as a certain sex physically but mentally are another sex. This behavior is taught learned or planted but it is a CHOICE!
To Argue old testament, KJV; or any other Centuries old interpretation by the Leading Scholars, Disciples, Priests Shamans, Politicians; WHATEVER.. Ignores The Evolution of Man, Science and our understanding of Cause and Effect... Most "Sins" Were acts that harmed others or Self.. Basic Survival Myths.. Many were distorted and Perverted to Serve the male Dominant Culture that was Violently Suppressing the Knowledge and Rights of Women, Infidel, "pagan" "aboriginal" nature focused Healing lifestyles.. (Ie.. Alternative Science n Medicine;) with the long term Goals of Supporting Status Quo and Justifying Slavery and Colonialism..
Since that time Most have Seen and Acknowledged that Slavery colonialism and Bigotry are Greater sins; than the JUSTIFICATIONS USED FOR THEM!.. (just as evolved humans No longer Stone Obnoxious Teenagers;) However in this case ie.. Homosexuality; like Premarital Sex had risks of disease and the spread to others; (thus the sin of harm to self and others) To Deny those risks and Act without Proper Preventative measures would still qualify as Sin in that context; to Say that Christ Would condemn Those that Love and Care enough to Take Care of Those That They Love and protect them from risk of Disease.. is To Ignore his Basic message of Love; and his further teaching That We Should not be held To outdated and Vengeful Petty interperatations of The Abrahamic god. But Evolve And Act with Caring and Recognition that ALL have Souls and All Souls were Equal.
By the way the system of belief that the only way to heaven is to Subjugate ones Life/Soul to Christ Was NOT his message but the Ruling of a Counsel of the Orthodox xtian Church leaders 200 years after his Death; Thus imposing Their Control thru church authority and ritual; Much like the Catholic Cannibalistic Ritual and confessional affirm their control on a weekly basis...
To Those Who Refuse to Evolve Spiritually as Well as Intellectually; We can Only Pity them and Try To Prevent their Self imposed ignorance from Harming others (Love/Pity the Sinner; Prevent the Sin/Harm;)
Again I Say Look into the eyes of Both; men See their Smiles and What They Show of the Depth of their Souls and Caring...
Mayor Pete Served in our military in Spite of the Bigotry against him.
Pence Never Served But would like to Reinstate or Worsen That Bigotry.... Would you really Want Pence with his Smug Apocalyptic Xtian Beliefs to have the Nuclear Launch Codes?? The Scary Idea of Trump having them is only Balanced by the Statements of Military leaders saying; " We would not act against Legal Authority" and We have to Study International and USA LAWs".. If Pence were to be allowed to impose His Xtian Standards on our Military and it's Leadership... We would lose that protection; as it is Obvious His god is a Vengeful Petty Bigoted one....
'red gasser': Your third paragraph is blasphemous and heretical. Jesus message WAS that HE is the Way, the Truth and the Life and that the ONLY way to the Father was through Jesus.
"fuglo": It doesn't matter that any paragraph is classed by yourself as heretical or blasphemous, because your premise is based on your mythical god and jesus being real, which as we all know, there is not significant evidence as yet to prove your concept. So your statement is at best fallacious.
Similarly, just like you, I can say that your jesus way, is not the truth and light, but it's okay if that's what you want to believe, just like it's okay for me to believe your comments are based on a load of male bovine manure. But anyway, thank you for letting us know what you believe. You can thank me for letting you know what I believe later if you so wish.
fluke-o, Jesus didn't mean, quite obviously (except to you and your ilk), that people had to go through his physical body in order to get to God because in 2,000 years of Christianity, nobody has ever done that. Obviously, he meant that they would go through his spirit to God, and that spirit isn't and wasn't limited to the physical body of Jesus and has existed in many other places and times. Gandhi had it, as did Buddha and Lao-Tse and Krishna and others throughout history.
I'd have stopped going to church had I not met my partner of 39 years at Metropolitan Community Church in Detroit. Then we went to his liberal Baptist church for 19 years. I am the organist and we attend a Lutheran church near where we live now.
Unconditional love means just that. Without conditions. If I am busy with showing love I am not able to do anything mean spirited.
Respectfully...everyone should be entitled to join the ULC, and be considered to be equal to everyone else, regardless of gender/transgender, race, creed, ethnicity and anything else...Peace...Tom B