The Catholic Church and the gay community have always had a… strained relationship, to say the least. But could that be changing?
In a recent address that’s making headlines, Pope Francis declared that being gay is “not a crime” and argued that laws which criminalize homosexuality are inherently “unfair.”
The pope also insisted that the Church has a duty to push the abolishment of anti-gay laws around the world, saying “it must do this. It must do this.”
And that’s not all.
Francis also believes that Catholic leaders need to embrace these inclusive values. He even proposed a plan that would send any bishops who stand in opposition to special re-education programs – a sort of “reverse conversion therapy” that would teach them how to treat LGBTQ people in their communities “with tenderness.”
Such a measure would be unprecedented in the Church's history.
So, what comes next?
A Shifting Tide
Many regard Pope Francis as the most progressive pontiff the Catholic Church has ever had, and indeed his stance on various issues – including LGBTQ rights – is markedly softer than any of his predecessors.
Supporters of the LGBTQ community cheered the announcement, and one progressive Catholic pastor went so far as to describe it as “a historic call for the decriminalization of homosexuality worldwide.”
Others speculated that given the current rate of progress, it’s possible we could one day see a gay pope:
But not everyone was impressed, noting that gayness “not being a crime” isn’t a terribly high bar to meet. Some even argued that it was equivalent to a PR grab. Wrote one Twitter user:
“Cringe. The Vatican’s sudden shift towards ‘LGBT rights’ is nothing more than a rebranding to maintain power and legitimacy with younger generations. As a gay guy, I don’t want progressive religion of any sorts.”
Grumbling in the Wings
Of course, there are also plenty of more traditionally-minded Catholics who are not too happy with Francis’s comments.
The pope has famously clashed with more conservative factions within the Vatican who favor a stricter interpretation of Catholic teachings on homosexuality and gender identity.
This latest announcement marks yet another step toward a more inclusive Catholic Church – a vision that not everyone in Catholic leadership supports.
Critics voiced their disagreement online:
Tempering Expectations
However, it’s also clear the Vatican remains unwilling to fully embrace homosexuality. In the same address, Pope Francis took care to clarify that while not criminal, homosexual acts are still sinful in the eyes of the Church.
"It's a sin," Francis explained, adding: "Let's make the distinction first between sin and crime."
On the issue of gay marriage, the Catholic Church’s official position remains unchanged: it cannot bless same-sex marriages because "God cannot bless sin."
What are your thoughts on these developments?
120 comments
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Franco J. Gassiraro Then why do so many priests and bishops engage in the act?
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Franco J. Gassiraro
Let's be clear. According to the Catholic Church, being gay is NOT a crime nor a sin. You are who you are. The sin comes in participating in sexual acts, just as it's a sin for heterosexual couples to have sex out side of marriage. The discussion here would be in abstinence from sexual acts. Hope this helps.
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Richard Nathaniel Baker
I don’t claim to be a Christian. I claim to be a follower of Christ and his teachings. As such, I also believe that he established the new covenant with God that supersedes the old laws.
Christ instructed us to keep the 10 commandments, and to that he added one more. If homosexuality was such an “abomination”, why didn’t he say “oh, and don’t be gay.”? He certainly had the opportunity. Yet, Christ mentions nothing about it.
I don’t really care what Paul, the church, or the old laws have to say about it. Consider the SOURCE.
Consensual sex among adults is not a crime. Period. Is it a sin? I’d say that is between you and God.
For reference I’m a white heterosexual male. Politically I’m centrist. Leaning right but keeping one foot on the left.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Richard Nathaniel Baker What's the difference between being a Christian and a follower of Christ?
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Rev. Jim Sutton
The Pope clarified the following day. Same sex relationships are not sinful if the couple is in a "committed" and truly loving and "devoted" relationship.
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James Bullard
He says it isn't crime because it isn't up to the Catholic church to govern diverse societies which include a lot of non-Catholics. A 'sin' is an immoral act, one that believers in a particular idea of God believe is immoral. Not eveyone believes in the same idea of God. As far as it being "evil", that is defined as being profoundly immoral and wicked, something with intent to harm others. The gay people I know are loving and caring people.
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David Kelly Marlowe
I can see it now, all the teachers of God's word on their knees in front of Jesus saying "Did I not teach your word and bring your children to you? Then Jesus responds "Go away from me, I don't know you!". A lot of Pharisees found that out.
If you feel you can teach God's word in anyway other than the way God meant it to be taught. Don't forget to pack some heavy duty sun screen.
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Lionheart
Personally, I wouldn’t want to teach your gods word. I don’t agree with slavery, stoning people to death, drowning people, or killing first born children when I get angry with someone. Know what I mean?
If anyone needs to pack the sunscreen it’s your god. He has to be one of the worst deities mankind has ever created 🤷🏼. You need to stay well away from that butcher 🤭
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Alejandro Medina de Wit
Baby steps to decriminalize pedophilia
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Robert James Ruhnke
In red many states it’s already legal. They just have to declare it Christian marriage between an adult an a child. There are many red states where grown men can wed girls if they invoke religious purposes.
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David Kelly Marlowe
I can't believe anyone is surprised or shocked. Gods words say in prophesy, "Right will be wrong and wrong will be right" Just more proof that you should be looking up.
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Robert James Ruhnke
It was never right if the Christians didn’t r Hebrews to force their views onto others just because they thought God told them To do it. It was never right of Hebrews to destroy the cultures of Canaanites. It was never right of the Christians to deem non Christians evil. In short the Abrahamic religions can take their prophecies and shove them.
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Ronaldo
These days, marriage is more of a legal construct than a religious one. Marriage is nothing more than a contract between two people in which the State has too much say. Perhaps we should scrap the present concept of marriage completely and replace it with a legal cohabitation contract. It could be between two or more people even if they are not sexual partners. As an example; my brother's wife died a couple of years ago. Should mine die, he and I could decide to live together in order to save money. Rather than having to go through powers-of-attorney so we can share property as well as legal and medical decisions, why not have a contract that gives us the same rights as a married couple? If we had such a system, then any two, or more, people could have all the legal protections of marriage, but without calling by that name or involving a church. This could be a boon for people like spinster sisters, or relatives or friends who move in together to save money or care for each other.
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Thomas A. Follis
Wow. So, the PONTIF doesn’t know the difference between crime and sin? Is he trying to say he no longer believes in Gods law?
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Rev_Shaun
The day I listen to pronoucements about sexual matters from elderly male virgins in skirts will be a very odd day indeed.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
As far as I can tell Michelangelo Buonarrotti only had a fetish for muscular men with tiny penises. I don't know if that made him gay. I can't recall having read or heard about him being in love with another man.
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Colleen McAllister
There are times in history when gays were not only accepted but treated as special. Think of Michaelangelo. He was quite celebrated. We will get back to that point eventually.
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Wallace da Silva Santiago
It's not a crime, but biologically only males and females of the same species naturally generate fertile offspring... But that this biological theme, it will be between you and God.
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Rev_Shaun
Yes, there are around 10,000 gods currently being worshipped and the 000's we don't worship any more that might still be up there, swirling around in the clouds with nothing to do all day buy play the harp and reminice about the old days.
Fact is that the chances of any human worshipping the right god are about the same as winning a lottery without buying a ticket.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Rev_Shaun Well stated.
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Lionheart
Do you have any particular god in mind, Wallace? Mankind has created so many. Just asking for a friend if mine that follows Lord Krishna.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Sometimes, sometimes sexual reproduction isn’t the only method of reproduction in nature. This is a bad argument.
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John P Maher
YEAH ESPECIALY in the CATHOLIC CHURCH !!!
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Daniel Gray
And it makes no difference what he says, the Bible says this: Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination. IN short it is saying you should not be a homosexual. You don't like this then that's fine as you are more then able to find another religion that will allow you to do this. But DON'T do this and claim you are followers of the Christian or Muslim or Buddhist religions as you will get called out very swiftly
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Robert James Ruhnke
You’re not supposed to do a lot of things in those religions. You can be both. Christian and LGBTQ+ it’s really not your place to judge. Plenty of other sinners call Christianity home. I think that’s whole point. For you to cherry pick gate keep for that particular sin is rather childish and moronic. Your right wing politics corrupts all things. Doesn’t it, Mr. Grey?
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Daniel Gray
nope sorry you cant. You can claim to be all you want but if you have a specific religion then you must follow the teachings of that religion no matter if you like them or not.
And how delightful, you come along and instead of accepting this simple fact, you now have to bring politics into this when nothing was ever said of it in the first place. Is that how you try and justify your viewpoint Robert? when reality does not fit your world view you have to try and bring in politics, something that has nothing to do with this; just to make yourself feel better?
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Robert James Ruhnke
Religion and Politics have always ridden in the sand cart, Gray. You are are bigoted cherry picking fool, so of course you’ll deny that. Christian priests have always been there to meddle in the lives of people in the least 2000 years. Catholic or Protestant, is doesn’t matter who claimed the mantle of Christian. From the Inquisitions of Spain and Portugal, to the murders of Protestants in France and England to appease the Papist law. All interference from the church. Today it’s more behind the scenes, but it’s there.
As always. You have no facts, just projections and baseless claims that have no bite or backup to them. Your hollow words don’t do them any of your conjectures justice. Your reality is crumbling before you and the sand is falling away from where you stuck your head. Someone earlier said that the Christian church congregations are dropping, they are. They may not be super low in your life time, but they are falling, and in many places, what they were is a shell compared to say 20 years ago. Though I am seeing growing numbers in the Amish and Mormon Congregations. Take heed from the Amish. Do the world a favor and seclude your irrelevance there. The fresh air and hard work would do you world of good. Take Care.
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Daniel Gray
I have already given you the facts. And you refuse to accept them. So that does not say a whole lot about the truthfulness of your rant now does it
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Robert James Ruhnke
No Gray, you didn’t. You just gave outdated cultural views that have no basis in fact. You’ve told yourself and been told a lie a million times and now that’s the life raft of ideology you cling to.
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Lionheart
Sadly, you are onto a loser trying to convince Daniel of anything. He seems to be cut with the same cloth as John Partin. They have their own particular ideology that few, if any, agrees with them. I’m just grateful they aren’t fundamental Islamist’s. 🤷🏼
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Robert James Ruhnke
The problem Kitten Butt is that they’re the reason fundamental islamists exist in the first place. They’re two pages and two law decrees from unleashing their self righteous cleansing zealotry on others. The Abrahamics have always been murderous regardless of their version of faith. Judaism had a few thousand years to settle down understand humility at least. The Israelis are rattling their sabers and banging their war drums unfortunately.
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Daniel Gray
No Lion, I cite fact and unlike most people in here who cite their opinions and then get upset when they are proved wrong, they throw a fit. You could also do this Lion if you bothered to use a search engine instead of parroting what has been posted.
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Daniel Gray
yes I actually did and since you cant refute it, you try and use the "when did you stop beating your wife" method. And you even lose at that since you have nothing to back you up
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Rev_Shaun
do tell us who this Leviticus guy was and what qualified him, her or it to make such pronouncements.
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Daniel Gray
Sure, as soon as you tell us where you suggest that he didnt have the authority
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Robert James Ruhnke
Lol you can’t, can you Gray? You have no answer to his question lol. You could just say, “i don’t know,” it’d be more honest of you.
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Daniel Gray
already did, so your pitiful "I know you are but what am I" argument isnt going to fly
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Robert James Ruhnke
Nope, sure didn’t. Not one citation was written. You just huffed and puffed and gave a hot take or an opinion. Like always.
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Daniel Gray
Ok then lets try this in a way you can understand...tell us exactly WHERE the Pope has the authority to change what has been taught as Christian tenets for the last 1000 years on his word alone? He does not and never has had that authority. Whenever anything like this was brought up all previous Popes had to call an ecumenical council and then discuss it. So since he didnt do this, this is his OPINION and is not based on Cannon Law nor any tenant and as such does not mean anything. Understand now?
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Rev. Jim Sutton
And here's a cherrypicked oldie but goodie. 1 Corinthians 7:1 --- "It is GOOD for a man NOT to touch a woman." As such, who or what is a man to "touch."
As for Leviticus 18:22, God told Moses to tell his people not to do like the Egyptians and Canaanites. This was so that there'd be a complete separation between His people and others. In order to do this, God called what the other cultures did "abominations" and "perversions.". But within those other cultures, certain sexual education (men taught boys, women taught girls) was not just words and pictures. There was hands-on practice. It was not homosexuality nor lesbianism. God wanted His people to have a complete break from their masters. And one way was to make sinful the ways of the others. Now, the Pope, God's earthly representative, has reversed that.
And let's look at the word "homosexual." It was created, along with "heterosexual," in 1868. "Homosexual" did not appear in the Bible until 1946. In other words, it's a 'new' addition to some editions of the Bible.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
So, the Pope announced that homosexuality is: • Not a crime • Is part of God's plan • Is a sin. So the all-knowing, all-powerful God created homosexuals, on purpose, and then declared them evil? What was his plan? Sadism? Christian theologians, please explain
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Rev. MichaelRS
A somewhat argue that God created 2, and only 2, perfect, interrelated entities; man and woman.
After The Fall sin ran rapant in the world which led to the flood and, on a lesser scale, the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah. But humanity did not take those lessons to heart and continued on it's merry way with many turning away from God.
So no, what is considered sin or sinful acts is not of God. That is to say, not created by Him.
That's what some would say.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Matthew Mastrogiovanni. Nope you got it right but missed one key point. God needs your money too.
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Andrew B Shatner
The 1983 Code of Canon law states, "same sex orientation is not a sin, and never can be, because same sex orientation is not a choice." If a priest has sex with another man, it does not break the vow of celibacy, but insults the virtue of chastity !
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Interesting choice of words... "Being gay is not a crime", but "it's still a sin." Pretty crappy thing for the Pope to say. What a double standard. Gays like LGBTQIA+ and heterosexuals are all Gods children. One has to ask if God is perfect and makes perfect things, why does God create sinners who are gays/LGBTQIA+? If God can't create things that are prefect we have an imperfect God.
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James Lowrance
The creator can do as it wishes. End of debate....
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Yeah, J. Lowrance, that pretty much sums it up for humans with a world view that emulates Bronze Age desert goat herders that couldn’t explain where the sun went at night.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@James Lowrance. Typical Christian response. And I suppose the creator has fun with children seeing priests rape and molest them and women.
It’s comments like yours that young people read which makes them want to have nothing todo with God and religion,
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Daniel Gray
because its called FREE CHOICE. You would know that if you bothered to study the scriptures.
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Rev_Shaun
So, god gave us the attribute of free will, presumably because he she or it wants us to use it.
Therefore, if we use our god given free will to decide to become atheists, we are pleasing god, because we are using the attribute he, she or it gave us.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray If God is all powerful as it say in the scriptures, how can it be free choice? But I think you are right there is free choice which is why so many people are leaving the church and abandoning religion. So looks like you and the scripture are right.
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Daniel Gray
because God GAVE them the right of self determination. That they can believe in him or not, that they can follow his word or not. Its up to you. And please stop with this lie that so many people are abandoning the church, The Christian Church is still the largest religion in the world and for this religion to fall you would have to lose close to 200 MILLION in less then a year. So please keep your nonsensical dreams to yourself
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray So God who is all powerful gave them the right of self determination. If one has the right of self determination that mean they have more power than God.
The number of Christians in the United States and Europe has been shrinking for decades. Fifty years ago the number of Christians in the the United States was 90%. Today it's nowhere close to 90%. The largest age group that's least associated with Christian religion are teenagers to those in their forties. Appears you live in your nonsensical world dreams.... And then there's what's happening in the real world.
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Daniel Gray
I just answered your question, no skin off my nose if this is not the one you wanted.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray That you did. I reject your reality and substitute the reality everyone else knows to be true.
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Daniel Gray
and most sane people reject your attempt to redefine what their religions tell them
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray I have yet to meet a person who can give a define their religion.
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Daniel Gray
then why are you here trying to do the same thing you just claimed you couldnt find someone who could do it?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray I guess it's just to mess with you. You say your God is all powerful but then isn't. Just like all of the other Christians who can't answer simple question about their religion.
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Daniel Gray
Never said anything like that now did I, so I guess the only way for you to win an argument or a discussion in your own mind is to make up things?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray Well you did in your previous posts.
Problem with you saying I'm making what you said up is that you and I and everyone else can see what you previously wrote. But i you want to say you didn't say what you say go right ahead if that will make you feel better. -
Daniel Gray
well no I did not. Nice try at at smoke and mirrors but no dice.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
I didn't try, I succeeded smoke and mirror not needed.
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Daniel Gray
in your OPINION only, but not in fact or reality
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray Not my opinion, that's your opinion. Remember you are living in your own reality which is not shared by the rest of the world. Have you ever thought about rejecting your reality and joining the one shared by everyone else? You'll be a much happier person.
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Daniel Gray
And thats YOUR opinion that most of the world agrees with you. Please show some proof of this or admit that you lost that point
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray What proof would you like to be provided with to demonstrate your opinion is wrong?
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Daniel Gray
still waiting for you to prove I was wrong though..nice try at smoke and mirrors.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray I know you are waiting because to use a quote from the Bible you are a lazy ass that when given the evidence refuses to look at it. Or is it you are under educated and can't understand the words?
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Daniel Gray
No I am waiting for you to provide one iota of proof and so far all you have done is whine and call names. And that is not proof.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray You are so cute.... You already believe in your subjective truth which is why you are having such a difficult time with the objective truth.
Can you set aside your subjective truth so you can receive the objective truth?
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Daniel Gray
still waiting for you to provide ANY of your "objective truths" that can be PROVED to be factual. So far you have not provided anything but your OPINION. At least I am honest, you? not so much
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray Sounds like you are still to lazy or not interested in looking at the police evidence and failed using your critical thinking skills. The objective truth if you can get beyond the subjective truth you believe to be true. You must be miserable being trapped in your own reality.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray You are right I have not provided you with one iota of proof, but a Monte Verità or mountain of objective truth. Why is it you don't look at it?
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Daniel Gray
And if anyone goes back and reads your posts, they wont find anything except your OPINION and that in and of itself is NOT proof.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Yes Daniel that is what you believe. Question is why don't read what I wrote the first time? You tried, but then couldn't handle the truth. Try reading my posts again and all of your questions will be answered.
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Daniel Gray
Something that can be validated instead of you espousing your opinion and expecting it to be taken as fact
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray Oh you are so adorable. We call something that can be validated by everyone the objective truth which is also the reality whish can be shared by everyone in the world. You are so fixated with your own private reality you just can't accept the truth even when it's presented to you over and over.
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Daniel Gray
Wow must have really hit your sore spot as all you are doing is going on a rant and STILL not proving anything you claim
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray The truth is out there, but is seems you can't handle the truth.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray Dude, it's not my opinion you've been provided with the objective truth. Appears you can't handle the objective truth.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but when you cant give anything that can be proved valid, it is your opinion. And 6 replies does not make you any less wrong
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Daniel Gray
No he gave you the ability to believe in him or not. What you do with it is up to you. but you cant then get upset when you meet him if you get punished for it.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
If God gives one the ability to believe in God or not, God isn't as powerful as you claim.
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Daniel Gray
still waiting for you to prove that claim.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray How many times do you need someone to provide with proof? In stead of asking for more proof, why not read they proof you have already been provided?
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Daniel Gray
what proof?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray All the proof that's been proved to you. It's been my experience that no matter how much evidence a true Christian is provided they keep asking for more. So what proof that you've been given would you like to be given again?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Proof provided.
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Daniel Gray
saying so does not make it so
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray A lie that's told over and over as in the example of the Bible and religion is Normative Truth.
How much more objective proof do you need?
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Robert James Ruhnke
Man wrote the Bible, man said you get punished by god for not believing in him. That’s the problem. Men, mortals, human beings, wrote that damn book. A you have no citable proof otherwise, Gray. You saying you have proof whilst not providing any is why you’re a fool.
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Daniel Gray
Really? then please tell us why Einstein that the Christian Church is the LARGEST church in the world, the next closest one is Muslim but they are still well over 200 million people behind.
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Lionheart
Your argumentum ad populum doesn’t mean anything, and you know it, or should do. Everyone on earth could believe in your god, but it wouldn’t make any of them right if all they do is cling onto a belief structure with no demonstrable evidence.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry Lion, but facts are facts even if you dont want to agree with them
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Lionheart
As I said, everyone on earth could believe in a god, but it doesn’t mean to say any of them are right if they cannot demonstrably prove it. All it means is that they “believe” it. A large population of belief doesn’t mean anything. Ask O. J. Simpson 🤭
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Daniel Gray
Ok then Lion, prove they are wrong.
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Lionheart
I can’t prove they are wrong, just as you can’t prove they are right. 🤷🏼
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Daniel Gray
Never said I could Lion, thats why its called "FAITH"
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Lionheart
As Richard Dawkins very eloquently said:
"Faith is belief without evidence and reason; coincidentally that's also the definition of delusion"
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Daniel Gray
Then you admit that he is delusional because he can no more prove that a deity does not exist then I can that a deity does exist. That is his beliefs/faith. But thanks again Lion for proving my point and using an atheists own statement against him.
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Lionheart
From your statement you clearly don’t have an understanding of the word “atheist”, which doesn’t surprise me. Atheists don’t rely on faith, but you do because you have no choice, which is what we are talking about here.
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Daniel Gray
I actually do but it seems you are trying to use smoke and mirrors. here is the definition of Atheism
a·the·ism /ˈāTHēˌiz(ə)m/ Learn to pronounce noun noun: atheism
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
Now how is that any different then what I have said previously?
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Robert James Ruhnke
The Christian church was spread through violence, shame, and colonialism, Gray. It’s the biggest cult in the world currently. Even then. That wasn’t and still isn’t a guarantee of great life. Here you are Gray, proving that there’s no hate like Christian love. The fastest growing religion right now is Islam. Christianity is on a slow but steady decline. An it’s due to hypocrites like yourself.
Let’s not forget that it was the Christian Church who started the whole racism in law problem. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-racism-was-first-officially-codified-in-15thcentury-spain
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Daniel Gray
Makes no difference what your "opinion" is so if you want to complain then do it elswhere as no matter if you like it or not, Christianity is the largest religion in the worl by more then a safe bet. And name me one religion that has not fought wars against non believers or can be classified as a cult according to you. You cant. So one has to wonder why you are still complaining
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Robert James Ruhnke
You’re right for once, all religions are cults by technicality. I’m not complaining, Gray, though as always you’re trying gaslight. It still hasn’t shut me up, has it? So try having a civil conversation for once where you’re not playing on the defensive like the victim you pretend to be to get away with such vulgar ways of expressing yourself. I never said Christianity wasn’t the largest, I’ve acknowledged that, several times. What we are saying here is that it’s on a decline. Do calm yourself. No need for shouting.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray Not sure if you are aware, but Einstein has been dead for nearly 75 years. Sadly many Christians who refer to Einstein's statements on religion they get it wrong.
The only reason the Christian religion became so popular is same reason so many Germans/Europeans became Nazis. If you didn't you would be killed.
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Daniel Gray
I am aware and just like your opinion, its a dead issue as you are never going to be able to prove what you are trying to pass on as fact.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray Is it my opinion? Have you attended Church lately? Then you have seen young people are not attending. Visited a local high school or middle school and talked to kids about religion? They will tell you religion is dope, meaning stupid. They will also tell you they way Christians treat women, Muslims and LGBTA+ is discussing. Or visit a local college or university and ask students what they think of Christians and God. They will tell you of all of the evil things Christians do.
If you need more proof religion is dead, take a look at how many churches have closed or are for sale.
And then you might want to look on Facebook/Meta, Reddit, YouTube and all of the podcasts where ex-Christians are providing support for people who and losing their Christian faith and sharing all of the evil things Christians have done. As in rape, insist, child molestation, control over women's lives. What's appealing about being part of an organization that's just promotes hate?
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Daniel Gray
yes I have, and every church I pass no matter if its a 7th day Adventist or a Mormon or a Muslim or a Sikh temple or a Jewish temple, I have yet to see any empty parking spaces when they hold services. And its YOUR OPINION that they promote hate, not fact. Nice try but then again yet another major fail from you
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Daniel Gray It's your opinion, that it's my opinion young people want nothing to do with the Christian religion why is the Muslim religion growing faster that the Christian religion is losing member? Why are there half the number or priests that 20 years ago? Why are so many Christian churches for sale?
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Daniel Gray
last count of the people on the sites you mentioned dont even come to 1/100th of 1% of the members of the Christian religion. Or in a way you can understand it....it would be equal to a gnat on the hair of an elephants tail. And again its YOU who claim they promote hate all because they refuse to just bow down to your flavor of the month
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David Cox
God created Adam and Eve perfect but Satan tricked Eve into sinning and Adam sinned with her then everything changed now the the perfect human and earth and animals changed because of sin and the only way to be saved is Jesus took our place for the penalty of sin and when we get to heaven the perfect will be back
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@David Cox That's the story God tells in the bible, but as we now know, thanks to the Belgium Priest Georges Lemaître who proved the God and the Bible to be wrong. It is Lemaître, not Einstein who came up with the concept of the Big Bang and showed God and the Bible got everything wrong in the story of Genesis for days 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. How do we know Lemaître was right? And that God and the Bible is wrong? We have Lemaître's discovery to thank which lead to the creation of computers, LED lights, Internet, atomic weapons, GPS and countless other products you use every day.
Just think if Lemaître was wrong and God and the Bible were correct you wouldn't have a computer or the Internet and we would not be commutating. But then again you might be right, as many people say computers, the Internet ARE the tools of the devil. So if that's the case, why are you using Satan's tools? Hard to believe God would ever let you into heaven since you use the devils tools everyday and continuing to doing Satan's work.
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Colleen McAllister
One small step forward. Unless everyone starts treating LGBTQ+ people the same as anyone else nothing will change. Jesus accepted everyone, not just the perfect. There aren't any perfect. I say good for the Pope.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Coleen McAllister. Yup, took 2,000 years to get this far. Think it will be another 2,000 years for LGBTQA+ to be treated equally?
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Joe Stutler
In some backwards Third World countries it is. Some backwards cults consider it a "sin", which apparently is a crime against imaginary magical critters.
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Nicholas J Page
No being gay is not a crime it's how a person feels towards the same sex I would guess.Im hetrosexual so obviously I don't have a clue.But remember folks we are what we are.Were all god's children amen
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John D. Partin
All God's children is what God made us; all sinners are what we have made ourselves and were made by our first parents. We had to be made capable of not going along with God's will for our going along with His will to mean anything, which it wouldn't if we were robots and incapable of choosing wrongly, but we are responsible for our own actions and decisions and bring the consequences of wrong thinking and actions down upon ourselves.
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My Honourable Pope Francis ( THE PONTIFF) I have already separated the two items (1) CRIME and (2) SIN [ Homosexual might not be a Crime according to you indeed. BUT, HOMOSEXUAL IS A SIN ACCORDING TO YOUR ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH LAWS AND PEOPLE LIKE ME " Reverend Stephen Trevor Mohlaloga Makgoathane of the Southern Africa. My question is: What are you trying to Condone or to Promote? Did you ever consider the Sexual Activity of these Gay Community seriously and with your right mind found or having found NO SIN AT ALL? Yes, you haven't seen any Crime in that activity, But let us talk about GOD'S APPROVAL OF WHAT YOU PROMOTE" The HOLY SCRIPTURES v/s What you Condone. I HAVE RESPECT FOR YOU MY HONOURABLE POPE" l would never say maybe you confusing the two ( CRIME AND A SIN) You are too Democratic. Think of your Church, you are already on a brink of a more serious clash of an item in your future agenda meetings to come. With due Respect my Honourable Pontiff" Refrain or think again. Thanking you in advance. REVEREND STEPHEN TREVOR MOHLALOGA MAKGOATHANE (SA)