Pope Francis recently accepted the resignation of Paris archbishop Michel Aupetit, following the revelation that Archbishop Aupetit had an ambiguous, (supposedly) nonsexual relationship with a woman in 2012.
Aupetit "handed over [his] office to the pope to preserve the diocese" when the allegations came to light. The pontiff ultimately decided to accept the resignation, but his comments on the matter left some with more questions than answers about the archbishop's conduct:
“It was a failing against the sixth commandment (You shall not commit adultery) but not a total one, one of small caresses, massage given to his secretary — that is what the accusation is. There is a sin there but not the worst kind.”
Beyond the strange touching of one's secretary, it was his apparent handwaving away of the sin of lust, one that notoriously plagued the Catholic Church, that caught people's attention.
Lust Not So Bad, Apparently
“Sins of the flesh are not the most serious” declared Pope Francis when pressed by reporters – seemingly in defense of Archbishop Aupetit. He also reminded the crowd that everyone sins.
But the exchange got even more controversial. Pope Francis said that while he accepted Aupetit’s resignation, it wasn’t on the grounds of his sin; It was because the media was gossiping about him too much.
“A man has lost his reputation… when the gossip grows and grows and removes someone's good name, he cannot govern,” Pope Francis said. “That’s why I accepted the resignation of Aupetit: not an altar of truth, but on the altar of hypocrisy.”
The Pope’s comments were met with anger and confusion in some Catholic circles. While most accept that no faith leader is perfect, the Pope’s blame-shifting didn’t go down well.
“Many Catholics [were left] wondering what exactly [Pope Francis] was trying to say, and what had guided his decision,” read one analysis of the situation.
Victims Might Disagree
Pope Francis’ comments on lust not being the “most serious” sin were also a shocker to many, considering the Catholic Church’s recent reputation. Seemingly every year new child sex abuse allegations rock some diocese or another, with inquiries revealing up to hundreds of thousands of abuse cases at a time.
Critics felt the Pope’s perceived dismissive attitude towards lust was in rather poor taste considering the thousands upon thousands of child sex abuse cases that the church is only now seriously reckoning with. Diocese in the United States alone have paid out more than $3 billion to abuse victims.
It’s worth noting, however, that the Pope’s comments weren’t part of a statement. They were off-the-cuff comments reporters aboard the papal plane. All of us have certainly misspoken… we just aren’t being recorded by international press.
Still, it’s hard to argue it wasn’t a bit tone deaf, to say the least.
What do you think? Were the Pope’s comments justified? Where exactly does lust fall in the sin hierarchy?
And is it so wrong for us to expect Christian leaders to live like Christ?
77 comments
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James Riggle-Johnson
I guess this accounts for why so many pedophiles were never punished by the church.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
My sentiments exactly.
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Nicholas J Page
All Sins are Sins no.one should touch a woman unless in a relationship with her Reverend Nick Page UK
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It sounds to me like the Pope may have been relieved by not having to address another pedophile, which makes this man seem like a saint in comparison to.
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Gerardo Salazar
Huge difference between lust and rape; while lust is a normal biological behaviour rape a a crime.
For me the worst son is that of envy; while some sins are normal like the desire to eat, to have sex, to get angry, envy absolutely has no excuse whatsoever. How can you hate somebody because of his good luck, beautiful wife, business success, etc? We should be happy for them and wish them well but no, sometimes we go to the extreme of killing our brothers so are doing well. Were I God Almighty I would find in my heart a excuse to forgive you except for the sin of envy. It is vile, selfish and horrible.
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Rev. Dr. G. Waldron
You are right lust is not doing an act. Remember scripture - Matthew 5:27You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. And maybe remember he who has no sin cast the first stone.
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Lionheart
Can we just see it for what it really is. It's a criminal gang of pathetic, disgusting, perverted old men, pretending they are something they are not, who use a fake authority to sexually abuse children. The supreme leader of the gang should be jailed for life for doing nothing about it, and the gangs/mobs should be closed down worldwide. The buildings belonging to the gangs should be destroyed, all gold ornaments should be melted down, and all the financial proceeds should be evenly distributed to the poor. Housing should be built on all the gangs real estate for homeless citizens. This should also be applicable to all female gang members, especially those who have abused, murdered, and buried infants/children in the past. If there really was a god, I'm sure it would be very pleased for this to happen. For those of you who are still indoctrinated by these criminal gangs and their fake mythical etherial leader that they claim to revere, please don't be afraid to get out from under the grasp they all have over you. I doubt it's just Catholicism.
🦁♥️
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White Owl
There where no children involved in this case, only two adults.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
It's time for Catholicism to be outlawed.
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Rev Mark D
No, just the priesthood. The people themselves are not the cause, it's the human garbage running them.
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Woodrow
It's time for government to be outlawed.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Woodrow, you sound like a typical insurrectionist. We know who you were rooting for on January 6.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Not only Catholicism Matthew, but christianity as a whole. Let's even outlaw the father, son, and holy spirit, ghost, or whatever you want to call that phantom!
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White Owl
Let's outlaw all religions & any groups that subscribe to any common moral, ethical, or behavioral belief.
After all where should we draw the line when banning an other's beliefs?
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Reverend Kurt
you cannot blame the pope, he too is subject to the same indoctrination he was subjected to from the Seminary (The school of Paedophilia) where women are evil,the human need for sex is evil, and children revered for their innocence. It is not the pope per-say that is the problem, the whole institution of the church is the problem. Every believer of the doctrine is as responsible as the perpetrators of the atrocities. A responsibility no one can deny, if you follow the rules ,you play the game You are Responsible for it's outcome.! No use in in apportioning blame to any one individual when every believer needs look inward. Without actual supporters the Catholic church would be the last outpost of the long dead Roman empire
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Reverend Kurt
But hang on IT IS the last outpost of the long dead Roman Empire
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John P Maher
WELL ITS BEEN GOING ON FOREVER, DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS ? DOES ANYBODY REALLY CARE? I DO NOT THINK SO and THATS WHY IT HAPPENS, MEN OF GOD, NO THE DEVILS RECTUM !
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Linda weeks
A problem is that we tend to see clergy and other authority figures as above reproach, and grow to believe that they are above poor behavior. Clergy are people, just like any other, and whether it is the fire-and-brimstone Baptist preacher that gets caught in a motel at 2am with a hooker, or a priest that molests a child, spiritual forms sometimes seem to have a strange dichotomy within their leadership. They espouse purity and helpfulness and then use their followers to date their own closeted dark desires, behind closed doors. Not every spiritual leadership, of course, but we have all heard the tales. Don’t accept authority blindly. True leaders live whole, healthy, lives that enhance their society’s membership.
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Reverend Kurt
The perfect cop out. Do as I say NOT as I do. Good advice right from God in the bible to the churches to the people. The cle3rgy are only following Gods instructions.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Reading the comment here many of you are out of touch with what's going on in society. Do you know the lengths the Catholic Church went to move pedophile and raping priests.
Or the minister who from the pulpit stated he had raped a young women (minor) and the entire congregation stood up and applauded? Not one of those good Christians arrested him or called the police. The young women he raped is still traumatized to this day.
But it gets worse. In the San Francisco human trafficking especially of young Asian women as young as 13 has and is a problem. The sad part is the police, actually officers from several police departments are in on it. These young 14 year old girls don't know who to trust. They get raped by their church leaders and the police. It's a huge problem.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm glad I don't live in San Francisco, Douglas. I wouldn't talk bad about the police there, if I did. You could suddenly disappear, without a trace. I'll just keep living where I live, and minding my own business. If I were you, I'd quickly move to a different state. Just food for thought.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Some of our fellow ministers think this is a place where they can let it all hang out; the good, the bad, and the ugly ...then they disappear, and are quickly forgotten about. No sweat off my back! I'm glad to see them go. And I hope they get a swift kick up their ***** on their way out the door!
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Douglas Robert Spindler
How could you just sit around knowing young girls and boy are being rapped by the police and priests? If you are a good Christian I'm sure there is a bible verse which says something about protecting your fellow man and kids from harm. But maybe there's also a Bible verse which says a good Christian should do say and do nothing when kids and women are being rapped.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Douglas, I'm nothing like a Christian. If you've read many of my comments you would know I belong to a Pagan Religion called Wicca. I don't even know what a good Christian is. Sure I'd enjoy living in our society better if everyone was morally astute and highly ethical, but I'm not Superman, and I'd rather tolerate living in a corrupt society than get killed for trying to change it. If you'd rather be a martyr, and go out in a blaze of glory, by undoubtedly unsuccessfully trying to get the worst people to change, then by all means go for the gusto! However, in retrospect, if you take personal inventory, in Christian heaven, you might realize it would have been better to simply accept what you can't do anything about, mind your own business, and live as peacefully and ethically as you can, through which we lead by example. And maybe someone will see how living the same way would be better than the corrupt path they have loved, and eventually change. That is the only way we can change this world for the better.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Good to know what kind of person you and Wiccas are like. So if we turn the tables and if you or your kids/family members were being repeated rapped you would just want your fellow man to do nothing and mind their own business.
Good to know you and Wiccas can't be depended on to help their fellow human.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
No Douglas, considering the kind of family I came from, we'd torture such a person to death, and spend the rest of our lives in prison, if we had to, without any regret. But still, we wouldn't think of going outside of the family to save the rest of the world. That is my mother's side of the family, which started with the names Pistone and Maniscalco. If you want to learn about traditional Sicilian family values, you should watch a movie called The Godfather.Another good one is called Carlito's Way. Some would say that story was written about me, but at home they call me Carlo, and nobody in our family has ever been a member of that very nice family organization called the Cosa Nostra, which some people confuse with a fictitious organization which never really existed called Mafia. Ma fia are two separate words which only mean"my daughter".
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Douglas, I spoke with some good San Francisco police officers about you. They said they read your comments, and know who you are. It won't be long now, so you might use this time to get your affairs in order. I'm glad I could be of service to our nation, and community.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
I have to ask, if you are Italian how did you get a Swedish name? Glad to know it was you who contacted the San Francisco Police Department. Yes they did contact me, warning me about some crazy nutty Christian who thinks he connected to the Mafia. They thought of you as just another San Francisco homeless person with severe mental issues who should be hospitalized and drugged and institutionalized as in the movie the Cuckoo's Nest. The police apparently know who you are, where you live and have you on this list of crazy people with a mental illness.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Douglas, my mother's side of the family is Italian, and my father's side is Swedish, English, Welch, Spanish, and French. Personally, I am none of those things, but am an all American mutt. I'm nothing like a Christian, nor do I have any ties to the mafia, and nobody in my family is in the mafia iether. I live in Galveston, Texas, and have never contacted anyone in San Francisco. I'm not mentally ill, and I've never been homeless. You seem to have me confused with someone else. Considering the other things you've said that wouldn't surprise me.
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Paul Andrew Barker
My fiance is Roman Catholic Christian she is dedicated to her love of the lord I'm a. Christian spiritualist minister. I feel the pain she is will eventually feel about. This
This pope has been a disappointment to the faithful and I for one feel personally effected by his erroneous way of using his high office. To push through an agenda that a majority of catholics opposed from. Not allowing Cuban protestors. Into st peters Square. About the communist oppression in Cuba. To other strange ideas. That is coming from the vatican maybe it's time the Catholic faithful acctually. Had a vote. Who was to be their spiritual leader because obviously the old men running. The church. Are out of step with their own laity.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
My wife is a “recovering Catholic” and according to her, the worst sin (when she was a little-bittie child, was a sin against the “Holy Ghost.”
Since then, the Catholic Church has tried to minimize the worstness of a sin against the Holy Ghost, to being a sin against the Holy Spirit, which means that the former “worst sin” (aka, mortal sin) is now not the worstest; but has been replaced by a sin against the Holy Spirit, which is understandable because more people are afraid of ghosts, than they are of spirits.
Hopefully who ever selects topics for us to discuss, will devote one of these chit-chats, to trying to figure out what the differences are between a Spirit, and a Ghost — when both are classified as Holy.
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Lionheart
I'm sorry your wife is going through that, or went through that 😥. Denying what they call the "Holy Ghost" is perhaps the greatest religious blackmail ever invented William. It is of course mental abuse created by mankind. No real loving deity would ever do that, and if it did, I would be the first person to poke it in the eye, and punch it on it's nose, if I ever saw it 😜
🦁♥️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'll hold that holy ghost down while you punch it, Lionheart!
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John D. Partin
Chickenheart, as you prove yourself even more to be by your post here, instead of you and Carla telling us what you would do to a Being that you consider to be "imaginary", why don't you try doing that to a big mean man over there, so that he can beat both of you down into the ground?!! Still chickening out, huh, Cowardly Heartless Lyin'?!!
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Rev Mark D
So it's okay to commit (especially if you are a priest or higher) as long as it is not the "worst" sin.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Sin is a word that was made up by Christianity, Mark. So if you aren't a Christian it doesn't apply to you. However, we get along best in this world by being ethical; doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do.
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Rev Mark D
First, nobody owns the word or definition except as a specific sub-clause in any dictionary, and virtually every word in the various dictionaries, including Christian ones, have many specific separate subsection and sub-clause definitions using the same word. So I think your response is a little cheap and a little patronizing. Trying to kid a kidder.
Second, and most importantly: Wrong and violent is wrong and violent. Sexual abuse is both. Do you disagree?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Wrong and violent are definitely bad Mark, but o ly a hristian, or zomeone who had spent too much time around them, would think of such things being sinful behavior. Pagan or Wiccan like me would call it negative karma, or creating karmic debt. I don't know what members of other religions would call it, but I seriously doubt the word sin would come to mind, and totally nonreligious people would think of it as a bad thing, but definitely not as a sin.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I find it best to live within the boundaries of my conscience, and stay true to myself, astute to my morals; my personal principles. That usually keeps me ethical.
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Daniel Gray
Really? Thats not what you were saying when you were in South America....
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
They told me I was in South America too, but I honestly can't remember that weekend at all! Or was it a week?
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Daniel Gray
Not funny, My buddy Tony Rios's son Tony Jr married a woman (Maria Rios now, Alverez is her maiden name) from Brazil and down there EVERY priest still tells the followers that premarital sex is wrong. So it seems the Sins of the flesh are still wrong and still against the teachings of the Catholic Church
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Rev Mark D
Holy Marquis de Sade! (and under this new criterion, he actually does qualify as holy)
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I love doing things against the Catholic denomination. I get quite a laugh at watching the way they react to me. It's been that way ever since the first time I was sent to the principal's office, in Kindergarten, at St. Mary's Elementary School, in Galveston, Texas, in 1968. And I'll forever be proud that I was expelled from two Catholic schools, and then told that they'd never let me in another one, even if I wanted to become a priest later on. Thw only thing I could think of saying is "Thankyou, Jesus"!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Don't worry Ehrman! I haven't come across anyone who's greater than me, so I never have anything to become vain or bitter about. I'm far superior to even the lowly god of this universe. Ask him, he'll tell you. Unlike you, he knows his place.
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flugo
'seabee': ' . . . . greater than me, . . . .' Your poor English grammar demonstrates your empty vanity perfectly! It should read ' . . . . greater than I . . . ..'
On the 17th you misstated the construct of 'sin'. The holy, righteous God first used the concept in the 4th Chapter of Genesis.
Your vain diatribes epitomize an insecure pseudo-intellectual craving admiration and esteem from this site's audience who, also, tire of your pompous blather.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Thanks for correcting me, Professor Fleutsch.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Apparently flugo, our good brothers and sisters of the ULC aren't tired of my glorious sermons, or they wouldn't keep posting them. And in case you haven't noticed, far more of mine have been getting posted for a while than anyone elses. That tells me sir that despite your obviously much higher level of education, that you sir, in all your infinite glory, don't have a leg to stand on. Also sir, you might keep in mind that it's not our level of education that matters as much as what we do with the amount that we have.
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White Owl
Just an observation, Carl Bernard Elfstrom, to post here one simply need click their mouse. Only if they violate ULC's standards will they be deleted. Therefore the quantity of your post merely implies that you have far more time on your hands for this than actually existing in the real world and in no way implies that your post ad-nausea-um make them any better or worse than anyone else's
Further, you are a liar. Once a person shows them self as a liar then THAT discredits everything else they say thereafter, no matter how much they spew forth.
i.e. "Carl Bernard Elfstrom Dec 24, 2021 at 02:34 am Douglas, I spoke with some good San Francisco police officers about you. They said they read your comments, and know who you are. It won't be long now, so you might use this time to get your affairs in order. I'm glad I could be of service to our nation, and community."
and
"Carl Bernard Elfstrom Dec 28, 2021 at 06:24 pm Douglas, ... I live in Galveston, Texas, and have never contacted anyone in San Francisco."
These are your own post from above, you either contacted San Francisco people or you didn't, but where I come from that is called lying. That makes you a liar and as such I don't believe anything further you have to say.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Right again, Ehrman. Your god is rather dull and ignorant, isn't he? You listen to him for me. I've got better things to do (like contemplate my navel, while I smoke this joint).
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
A ghost is an apparition. You can't see spirits, unless they become apparitions. A spirit can be any kind of discarnate or even incarnate entity, and there are many, but by far most of them are not ghosts.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That's right, Ehrman, the universe is unfolding the way it should, but I still wish it would do so faster, so it's inhabitants would evolve and quit being morons. At my age, I could get wrinkles from laughing at them too heartily.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Ehrman, I couldn't possibly become fatigued or lonely around this place. There's nothing fearful about the good, hearty chuckles I get around here!Even your antecdotes are hilarious!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Ehrman, I'm sure you sometimes wish I'd find peace in silence, but I'm not the one who posts these glorious sermons. I just write them.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Hey Spindler, did you know that the good police officers of San Francisco read this blog?
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Now, even more so than your misinterpretation of that poem you wrote, the funniest thing on this blog are the words of Douglas Robert Spindler. I'm totally laughing my ass off now!!! Give me a break, Ehrman! You know I'm doing my best to clean up this blog, but it's getting to be one after another! When will these lame brains ever learn ..when will they ever learn? I'm even considering taking a short break. No, nevermind, I'll go to the opposite extreme instead. My ministry must never end. My underlings need me.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Douglas, the police are good people, by far mostly, and you should be ashamed of yourself! So bend right over in the confessional, and t a key a good sodomizing for your penance, plus say two Our Father's and three Hail Mary's. The Catholic Church won't give up on you that easily. You were one of their favorite sexually abused a altar boys. That because you were so willing to please Jesus and the other pedophiles.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Never forget, Ehrman, Magick is not instantaneous, but a process. And there can be great power in words, as long as the right ones get posted. So don't sit on your laurels. If you snooze, you lose!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
If you won't play by the rules Douglas, you need to go away, and find another game to play. It's as simple as that. You needn't bring more anxiety to the table. Now run along and hide from the San Francisco police, and the others who you've chosen to turn against you, on your deranged and vastly misinterpreted Christian crusade, or schizophrenic delusion.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Soon they'll be asking "Whatever happened to Douglas Robert Spindler"? However, soon thereafter, he will be totally forgotten, as if he never existed, and the universe will continue to unfold, without missing a beat.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Douglas, we aren't here to save the world from what we perceive as wrong and evil, but only to discuss the topics which are given to us. If you want to do other than that you might want to start your own blog.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Ehrman, haven't you heard that the road to hell was paved with good intentions (which can also be stated as high ideals).
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I know I flew off the handle last night, and hope some of the things I wrote won't be posted. It does get frustrating at times, I must say, trying to minister to those who are on those holier than thou self-destruction courses. Again, patience and tolerance must be worked on. And remembering that I don't have to read everything written by everyone. There are those who it is best to not pay any attention to. They too have a right to be here. We are all children of the same universe, I sometimes must remind myself.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
No Ehrman, not I, I have never been one to feign affection, but I get more than plenty of attention anyway, both positive and negative, a which usually gives me a hearty chuckles, and a good reason to keep ministering to those poor, unfortunate souls.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I never think of anyone as being greater or lesser than myself Ehrman, but there are those who are very different, who sometimes easily get under my skin.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
You sure talk to yourself quite a bit in the forums..
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Atleast you read my comments, Douglas.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Douglas, although I'm glad to know you read my comments it's too bad that you aren't smart enough to accurately interpret the things I say. Nevertheless, I will continue ministering to you, in hope of you someday getting better.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Ehrman, I do seek to avoid people who are louder and more aggressive than myself.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Jesus and flugo sitting in a tree k-i-s-s-i-n-g!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It's hard to believe some of the things they'll post on this blog!
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I wonder if they'll ever do skits of this blog on SNL. That would be a riot!!! And a good way for the ULC to make a lot of money.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Does anyone remember what the original topic was? Are we ever going to get back to discussing it, or should we move on to the next?
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Gwendolyn Lord
Of course pedophilia is no big deal either.
A thousand times rather see a priest having sex with a woman in a consensual relationship.
Religious hypocrisy.
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Alan Diamond
The Church does not approve of rape or paedopfiles. It merely forgives you for it as long as you tell them about it, wash your organ in a special water and give them money.
I believe Church leaders should be held to a higher standard than lay people. In this case, a lay person, say a manager at a company, would be fired for this inappropriate behavior towards an underling. It may also be grounds for civil or legal action. Therefore the Pope should not treat this lightly. Some in society have way too much sympathy for the perpetrator in these cases.
Sounds like the Pope is giving permission for inappropriate behavior and as always with no accountability because of status which in reality folks with so called status should be punished to the highest degree, especially because they think their above the law and think they have so called status, especially when it comes to the Catholic church, priest that have committed many monstrosities, especially hurting children. These poor babies, my heart and prayers go out to them to have a full healing and recovery even the ones that are adults.