Does anyone have the prayers to pound conversion?
A £10 million monument to answered prayers is coming to Birmingham, England in 2026, with construction set to begin soon.
The creators say this will be the largest symbol of hope in the world and inspire untold millions.
The project is not without its critics, however, who argue that the creators don’t have to rely on prayer to bring prosperity into the world… instead they could just use the 10 million pounds going towards the monument’s construction for good works.
The Eternal Wall of Answered Prayers
Where did the idea for the monument originate? Apparently, the Eternal Wall of Answered Prayers (as it will be known) began as a vision from God.
“Sixteen years ago, I felt God speak to me and give me the idea,” says Richard Gamble, the project’s founder and chief executive. “I spent 10 years wrestling with that, then six years ago I said: OK, let’s see if we can make this happen. It’s an audacious project, but I believe God is helping us to achieve it.”
The project has three stated goals:
- “Preserve the Christian heritage of the nation”
- “Proclaim Jesus for the country”
- Encourage prayer
Due in 2026, the monument will be massive – nearly 170 feet tall and visible from six miles away. It will sit on land in the outskirts of Birmingham that was donated by Lord Edmiston, a British billionaire businessman and entrepreneur.
The monument is expected to attract some 300,000 visitors per year, who will use an app to read the individual prayers that built the monument.
What's more: each of the million bricks used in construction will represent an actual prayer from a member of the public, and visitors will be able to read those answered prayers in the app.
It’s set to be one of the biggest monuments to faith built in the modern age.
But not everyone is praying for its completion.
Money Well Spent?
Critics say that the new construction is nothing more than a monument to hubris, and that the money would be better off spent on feeding the needy or providing medical care to the sickly.
“15,000 children die every day around the world from easily preventable diseases,” pondered one Reddit user. “I wonder how many could have been helped by that £10M....”
“I wonder how big the wall of unanswered prayers will be?” quipped another.
While the monument has its share of detractors, the founders say they hope it will inspire and fortify the faith of all who visit. That alone is worth the 10£ million price tag, in their eyes.
What do you think of the Eternal Wall of Answered Prayers? Is the potential to inspire millions worth the tremendous cost, or are critics right that the money could make a greater impact elsewhere?
92 comments
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Jack Gordon Campbell
A terrible waste of money. A squandering that will bring more contempt than converts. Christianity practiced right is admirable; i consider this fanaticism repulsive.
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Amber M. Castleman
Money can be used for better use than a monument there are far more important things needed more than a monument
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Catherine
@ServantOfJudgement
I'm not picking on the Catholic Church. It knows what it's done : . ) And I would be amiss if I didn't share similar facts about other large, organized religions. However, there is not enough room on this blog to do that, and likely not enough interest because many - religious or not - don't want to consider any church denomination or faith could be so utterly vile.
Most recently, only last year, I spoke with a young college student whose family left the Mormon Church because at age 11, a church member who was then 43, approached her father to arrange marriage with her as soon as possible.
My mother was raised Protestant, yet left for never disclosed reasons, then chose a Southern Baptist church. So that's where I was until about age 13, when a deacon made an inappropriate comment which I later asked my father about. At which point, he suggested I should stop going there. We lived in deep in the boondocks and there was not another church for about 17 miles, I didn't drive and that was that.
It's endless, the facade churches wear. Now, I have no doubt there are very good people with genuine faith, who attend churches. And, as someone pointed out to me after I explained why I didn't want to be around some of the ne'er-do-wells in church, isn't that a good place for ne'er-do-wells to be? Fine, I will find a better place, which ended up with self-exclusion from any church : . )
Nonetheless, lumping all churches together and speaking as if they all do good deeds for the public at large, indicates lack of sufficient knowledge and historical and current understandings of the dominant organized religions. No doubt smaller groups have similar issues as well, the 'human condition' being what it is. Still, due to the extensive number of people terrorized by organized religions, past and present, reasonable fault for negative public relations falls squarely on those religions that perpetrate crimes on those who hold / held their faith dear.
As for the monument, I could not agree more with Kenneth Safe Eric Sanders on that:
"It's hard to think of anything more religious than building a monument to themselves."
and
"It's no doubt a metaphor for the eternal 'truths' of their religion.
"Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
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Catherine
@ServantOfJudgement
Are you familiar with the history of churches profiting by building prisons? Though this link below prompts selecting a state in the U.S., the Catholic Church builds prisons all over the world. What is so little discussed publicly, are the profit and business deals the Catholic Church makes by 'helping the incarcerated'. Same as homelessness is big business for religious organizations. Long ago, in an interview with a legislator it was disclosed that the profit is about $1,500 'per head' who signs in every day for a full month. And the programs... oh my goodness... whole other story there though the gist of that is how homeless are kept homeless to milk their misery as long as possible. When no more profit is to be made, those unable to fend for themselves are back on the streets. And it's been found that most chronic homeless people have a mental health condition that makes them unemployable for most jobs. Some could work for Goodwill, though following the money trail there leads to the Koch Brothers who pay their upper management decently to maintain a status quo by definition ally abusing vulnerable people by keeping a high turnover to avoid lawsuits. All that was in the discussion, not my opinion.
HTTP://www.catholicprisonministries.org/explore-organizations
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/they-were-setting-fires-new-details-emerge-about-deadly-saskatchewan-prison-riot
Though Wikipedia is not a great source, it does well enough here that anyone can use this link as a springboard should they want to investigate further:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastical_prison
And how does the Catholic Church justify how it treats those they imprison? Canon Law, which constitutions worldwide are based on. It's been said that most are adapted for their country, however what is most important to the Catholic Church to continue to function as it needs to, remains in place.
Then there were the Magdalene Laundries, a human traficking endeavor of sorts carried out by the Catholic Church. Terrible, truly terrible history there. And that continued far into the last century. It began with a Pope Innocent (no joke) who blackmailed women into turning tricks for the 'church's benefit' and to blackmail anyone who barked at the church. Women were told they would be educated and cared for in a convent, only to be raped and otherwise abused. Under the auspices of the Catholic Church, laundries were established to handle clothing while also 'laundering' women and children (some of whose fathers were employed by the church) who became church slaves, sometimes until they died from the harsh environments and poor nutrition.
There is the Sedlic Ossuary in Prague, a church made of bones. There are others. This one was explained to me by a historian who lived there. This church was not built to honor the dead. It was done to terrorize locals (then) into remaining 'true to the Catholic Church', because bones were cheap building materials, and the Catholic Church is so very good with finding free or very cheap labor through various forms of coercion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedlec_Ossuary
I'm not thoroughly familiar with this next source, however much of what is explained at this link, I have found on JSTOR, loc.gov, and similar sources though those sometimes require a membership to view a complete read.
https://www.thesmartset.com/article05111001/
"so many Vicars of Christ have been denounced as the “Worst Pope Ever” that we have to settle for a Top Ten list."
Freudian slip?
http://thecatechist.com/the-churchs-work-with-prostitutes-in-the-middle-ages-and-the-renaissance/
"In 1198, Pope Innocent III issued a decree determining that every godly man who marries a prostitute to give him [sic] an honorable life would have his sins fully remedied (learn more in Daniel-Rops’ Church of the Crusades and Cathedrals). It was a plenary indulgence, that is, the cancellation of the temporal penalties due for the sins committed up to that moment."
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Robert Rohr
I fully support the goals. However, I fail to see how a generic looking metallic structure does anything to contribute to them.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
In response, to one of my comments, I was asked how I was able to conclude that God and nature are the same thing — meaning that my religion (via Spinoza, Thomas Jefferson, and Einstein) is the only known religion, able to actually prove that God exists (which no one who calls themselves a Christian has ever been able to do).”
Secular Humanist Pantheism (SHP; what I self-identify as) is just a particular aspect of Pantheism, which “burdens” SHP’ers, with having to try to follow the “Golden Rule” (the Humanist aspect of it) and “Secular” (which means that there is nothing supernatural— at least not anything that the human mind can comprehend — Haeckel).
SHP is a consolidation of all belief systems, into one overall religion, for everyone — it has a God (which 98% of people apparently need) it has rules and regulations — regarding acceptable behavior— and that’s basically it.
SHP’ism can differ, from one adherent to another, and there’s no one watching you all the time, constantly reading one’s mind, or asking you for any money
Or, telling females, that their medical needs should be established by a bunch of old white guys, who are obviously fascistically-inclined.
Hopefully the ULC will soon be offering a doctorate in Pantheism — in general, and a doctorate in SHP’ism in particular.
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Catherine
A long time ago, I learned not to conflate a person with a cause. Where is the substance of personal sprituality when someone chooses a religion or path in life because of another person's celebrity?
Somewhat lame example: My mother was all about Billy Graham until she discovered Edgar Cayce. When no one she cared about jumped on her bandwagon, she stopped going to church altogether, and gave up hope that someone had more answers about her, or solutions for her, than she did. About several years later and a lot of thinking, she began discovering who she really was, buried beneath fears of being different from people she cared about.
I think religions lead individuals away from their Self.
Why does an all inclusive religion need a god/dess or God? Because someone else, celebrity or not, said so?
Following someone else's religious choices seems a sure recipe for self-imposed grief. A form of lifelong self- flagellation.
What is this need to lean on something or someone else, really about?
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
If I may intrude...
In my experience, a religion is a social construct. It's about a group of people supporting a set of beliefs.
A God/dess is necessary for authority. Without authority, a religion is just a book club.
But make no mistake, religion greatly appeals to some people. It's part of natural diversity. Some people are deep thinkers, who intellectualize motivations and actions. Other people, not so much.
Just my 2 cents.
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Catherine
@Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Public discussion = no intrusion, yes?
It might be wondered why someone with my views joined ULC. I signed up to learn more about ULC, because dichotomies and things that don't make sense interest me. Then some of the discussions seemed interesting. So, though mostly I lurk, sometimes I flop about with mental masturbations.
I would apologize, except there are worse things to do : . ) Reading and posting here is more of a break from researching earthen construction.
You, however, seem to maintain balanced perspectives. You cut through the muck, straight to the point. That is a gift.
It seems most who post here are happily entrenched and why shouldn't they be? I don't think everyone should think as I do, though I do enjoy pondering what is different and why.
Considering religions as a form of natural diversity surely adds a perspective that would quiet most debate, if that were more widely accepted. And if it were not for how enthusiastically some readers respond to what is different from them.
Sometimes posting here is a little like skipping stones to watch the water ripple.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
In my view, you are the best kind of person to join ULC. Open minded, curious, empathically aware, independent, meticulously thoughtful. Honestly, it is the "happily entrenched" (Good description!) who I find so often on this blog that I cannot understand joining ULC. Numerous times I have literally seen people stating only people with their beliefs should belong to ULC, and everyone else should be kicked out, which of course is completely contrary to everything the ULC stands for. The only reason they were able to join is because of the ULCs radically inclusive values! It's a real stumper.
I joined because my son asked me to officiate his wedding. They were married June 18 in my front yard.
I don't often see people talk about their personal or professional lives here. I am a handyman. Pretty humble, I suppose, but it does foster a very pragmatic approach to issues, especially as most of my clientele are elderly, disabled, or otherwise socially marginalized. Every day I see what, but for the luck of the draw, could be my fate - and as far as age, I'm no spring chicken. I recently turned 60. Statistically, my health could fail at any time, or my wife's.
So I am keenly aware of the rapid decline or hardships that can suddenly happen to anybody. Honestly, sometimes it makes me angry how indifferent and neglectful, when not openly bigoted and prejudiced, our society is of its own. Perhaps sometimes it boils over a little on this blog. Then I have to apologize. Then, I have to remind myself that it is part of natural diversity that some people are naturally less inclined to care, or even see beyond the end of their nose. As long as they are comfortable, they don't care. I've seen that too - a lot.
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Catherine
What you said. The more common poster here, as you described, is similar to my second husband. (Lost #1 in the military.) Unfortunately, #2 (fun pun in this case) wore such a great facade for several years, that was hard to recognize : = )
I was blessed with husband #3 about 18 years until he passed a few years ago. So, I began being busy with learning to build an earthen home. And reading, genealogy (curious history with John Calvin The Reformer), plants, aquarium, generally the mundane that helps with walking life's tightropes less stressfully.
I think social media creates distance between people, preventing discussions that would make clear our differences are less than what we humans generally share in common. And when I hear or read peoples' negative or less than informed comments, I remember when I was there. As you related, "if not for grace there go I".
I suppose my most repetitive point posting on ULC is that little good, if any, comes from imposing our will on each other and nature. Really, that doesn't always go well when we do it to ourselves! Some things simply will not be denied a place in our lives.
This column is getting too small to post in, so for now I will say thank you again, and wish you and yours the best. That your efforts are not unnoticed and are appreciated. And, if marketing statistics have not changed much over the past 35ish years, there might be a small pleasure in knowing that for each person who speaks out loud, there are about a 100 more who feel similarly and have not. That works both ways, of course : . )
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Brien
You, nor your religion, could no more prove the existence of a supreme magical being than I could walk to mars whistling. But, whatever floats your boat. Peace ✌️
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Mary
Ohhh we so need another Cleansing Of The Temples!
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Mary
Pay your taxes already!! Ashamed they would waste money like this. It's just Tragic. These people should definitely not have that kind of money or power they should be paying their share of taxes! This is what happens when they are given free rides!! https://www.themonastery.org/blog/monument-to-answered-prayers-coming-to-england
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Brien
Again, I am left to wonder..... If someone does something, in your name, that is grotesque, perverted, or otherwise against what you believe in, would you stand up and call them out? Likewise, if something good is done in your name would you stand up and say thank you? Now, all of you "come to Jesus" folks, question for you... Would you rather a big concrete statue or would you prefer to help a bunch of people? If your answer is to help, why do you not defend your belief against this gross waste of money done in your name?
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Rev Ned
It will probably boost their tourism industry, which, to date, relies heavily on their pet people (The Royals). “Christians” who send their hard earned money to Joel Osteen will probably want to see it.
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Daniel Alaniz
No one has the right to criticize the donor for devoting this money to the monument. A promise made in faith and a requested believed to have been granted should be fulfilled. The monument may inspire others to return to a stronger faith and benefit others in many ways.
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Mary
Oh we so need another Cleansing Of The Temples. As long as these churches are not following Jesus and paying their taxes we do and we will. WWJD? It was clear what he would do and DID! These churches are getting a free ride to boot! Pay your taxes!
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Gene Schenck
I hope it creates zero pollution everything else seems to screw up God creations
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Gary Wall
A Mobius Strip as monument to answered prayers, my hope is that they rethink that design here's why. Because Atheists' are going to look at this and make a joke out of it. Saying its a symbolize of a religious trap. One sided infinitely going around in circles with out escape.
Please do not do this, it could do create doubt, irreparable damage. What's wrong with two hands brought together in prayer?
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Curtis W Miller
Three words can speak to this issue. “Follow the money.” Where is the money coming from and who is profiting.
If it follows a typical course, the money will come from taxpayers and go to the designer and contractors who are already rich.
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Mary
And since these churches are not following Jesus and paying their taxes it is OUR money. They are stealing from all of us.
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Brien
I have a question for the religious believers, why do you not take responsibility for cruel, gross, and even perverted things all done in the name of YOUR beliefs. I would not really mind the organized religions if the people would take control of them and accept responsibility for things done in the name of their "God"
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Martin L Stigleman
I'm looking forward to the day that this is completed, and God decides to show them how the commandment of not worshipping graven images works... Just as he did in Ohio with the Solid Rock Church's "King of Kings" sculpture. A 62 foot tall bust of Jesus that cost $250,000 (that could have been used to help others instead of aggrandizing a church)...struck by lightning and consumed by flames!! It was a beautiful sight... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Kings_(statue)
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Esther Norma Parson
Well, my gut reaction was "what a ridiculous choice." Then I thought I'd give it the benefit of the doubt... so I looked it up on their website. They're crowdfunding this to build it. They even have a question in their FAQ about why you should donate to them instead of any other charity. I suppose it's an interesting idea, but fridge logic makes it feel very questionable to me especially when you consider they're naming it "Eternal Wall of Answered Prayer."
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
God designed this monument because she feels happy when people pray to Her.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Since v when did God become a woman? God is recognized as Father. Plainly revealed in Scripture. The Holy Spirit is the Comforter. A feminine nature and feminine in Jewush and Christian theology, but God is Spirit, so there really is no gender in God. But, when he appeared amongst us as as a human it was in a body as man. That still does not make God male or female .
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Rev_Shaun
This is another reason why I am totally in favour of entirely scrapping the Charities Act in the UK. This will all be done under the name of 'charity' and doubtless all the tax advantages of doing that will be used in this project. Doubtless contributions will be made using 'Gift Aid' which will enable the charity to gain tax funds. The donor will be able to offset this against the personal tax bill. There be a lower rate of VAT (Sales Tax) paid on the building materials etc, etc, ecetera! And for what? A useless lump of stone that will serve no other purpose than to spoil the natural view of the countryside. The delusional idiot behind this crazy scheme clearly has too much money. I suggest the government serves him with a windfall tax order and use that money to build homes for the homeless.
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David Arthur Lewis
What's the big deal? In a capitalist society, people can spend their own money on whatever they please. At least this group is creating jobs instead of creating dependency on handouts.
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
Wow, a huge Mobius Strip, how original.
Better idea, education and jobs programs instead.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
It's no doubt a metaphor for the eternal 'truths' of their religion.
"Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
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Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson
Building a monument to oneself worked well for Ozymandias. ;-)
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ServantOfJudgement
If this were a satanic temple with it's construction being disparaged by christians for the same reason, wasting money, just about everyone on this blog would 180 and defend it's construction with great enthusiasm. There are a few that come at it square but not many.
Look, it's their money. It's their time. It's their right. Thank God this world still has enough freedom in it for people to carry out their desires. Churches do offer food, housing assistance and medical care. Missionaries flood the world with these things. Small communities across the globe all give and help. Christians are everywhere doing the things most of you demand from them. You want them to do this without speaking of Jesus? Don't hold your breath, they're actually doing these things for Jesus, whom they love. They're thrilled to give him the credit for their generosity and help.
The structure looks beautiful and is thought provoking, my opinion.
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Martin L Stigleman
"Churches do offer food, housing assistance and medical care". REALLY? Are you counting the one that closed down their food pantry service because they said it was "attracting the wrong kind of people"? Do you include the multiple churches that have had police arrest vagrants for sleeping on benches on their property? You do realize that the Christian Right are the primary opposition to Universal Health Care for Americans, don't you? They also lead the fight against Free Education programs. "Missionaries flood the world with these things.". That is a misrepresentation of what todays Missionaries do. The entire objective of missionary work is to convince the populace to join their church. Why else do they only go to Non Christian areas? How many "Christian" groups send missionary workers to Native American Reservations? Most of the reservations are locked in poverty. Clean water us scarce, children are starving, and medical care is often unavailable...but the NA Tribes have already . been indoctrinated, so they don't get help anymore..
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Do the Satanists claim to be benevolent and loving, like the Christians do?
Facts matter.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
I'm glad you find it beautiful but I'm biased. I prefer Gothic artitexture to be more appealing. Even Stonehenge is more appealing for its pagan art. My opinion it's just plain ugly and reeks to much of New Age comedy.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
It's hard to think of anything more religious than building a monument to themselves.
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Catherine
Best summation yet. I stand corrected.
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Russel A. Kester
I once read that way, way back in the day the Catholic church built exquisite cathedrals and churches to give the faithful hope and a glimpse of heavens glory during a time when peasants' live were quite difficult. I think that even the Christian scriptures record a story of the disciple Judas as offended with the costly perfume Mary used to wash Jesus's feet saying it would have been better to sell it and give the money to the poor. But Jesus rebuked him. So, if this monument didn't use taxpayer money and is on private property, good for them. I hope it does truly inspire some people.
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Wilberta M. Berry
With mortgages rising and all of the money problems Brexit has cost England a 10 million pound prayer monument is ludicrous. Doing something God inspired would be to take that money and help the people of the country who are in dire straits.
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Alexander Arends
First of all, I love the design. Second, people have a right to use their money as they seem fit. Better than spending money at the casinos. In regard to spending money on the poor, who knows how much the contributors donated to that cause? And to be honest, ten million pounds is a drop in the bucket.
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Brien
Any drop helps, but we have different definitions for "drop". You are correct however, everyone, including rich zealots, have a right to spend their money.
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Susan Colmenares
Disgusting!
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Ms. Colvin;
I’m a Secular Humanist Pantheist (SHP’er) and in this capacity, we’re the only known group able to prove the Existence of God — because to SHP’ers, God and nature are the same thing.
As a Pantheist (although a secular humanist type);I try to remember to communicate with the Sun most mornings, by mentally-saying to the Sun “Oh great star ( our Sun) where would your beauty be, if not for those for whom you shine.” — which I use from the opening lines of Nietzsche’s “Thus spake Zarathustra.” — then I ask the Sun (which Ms.Colvin might call praying) to give us its light — which it always has done for as long as I’ve asked it to — which means that 100% of my requests to the Sun (which those like Ms. Colvin call praying) have been fulfilled.
No other religion, besides Pantheism, has a 100% success rate, in this regard.
Bottom line — if you pray (ask) for the right things (like for the Sun to shine) you too will be able to have a 100% prayer success rate.
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Catherine
Mr. Dusenberry,
I agree that praying, hoping for, or anticipating the right things is likely more productive and much less stressful. I think most humans are learning what those right things are.
About Panthesim, how does believing become proof that God and nature are the same?
I've not yet been pigeonholed into choosing a religious category because so far there's been no proof any religion is not at least partially contrived by at least one human. And when one human wants another human to subscribe to beliefs not of their own discovery, that boils down to the attempt to subjugate or control another person rather than theirself.
Probably that is a natural inclination because most humans are social creatures who are inclined to be around those with like minds. That is certainly comforting, as long as that lasts.
However, labels confine, cripple, and feel suffocating to me.
After years of arduously searching for answers to questions that defied clarity, eventually looking outward to writings that share life lessons, and looking inward to figure out what of that I can use, churned up these simple self-understandings that improved life without calling myself part of a belief system:
- be kind
- most people are doing their best
- the best of other people need not meet my standards in order for me to meet my standards, and I need not lower my standards to communicate with others who maintain lower standards
- have more faith in my Self than anyone might think I should because I'm right about myself more than anyone else ever has been and my life is about me me me
- encourage others to have the same faith in themselves
- live with my choices and allow only momentary feelings of regret or shoulda - woulda - coulda, then move forward with a lesson learned
- focus less on grief, because that is easiest to find
- question everything and encourage others to do the same
- resist restrictions to a sensible degree and indulge in challenges because humans grow through resistance
- adapt because that's how humans survive
- look for opportunities to be thankful and grateful
If you are aware of a religion or system of beliefs that encapsulates a lifetime of my personal lessons, none of which were learned in a religious environment, please share. I might consider joining to check it out.
While nature grounds me, I cannot call nature a religion or distill it down to a system of belief because nature requires neither belief nor a religion. Nature just is. I think every human just is. And all within the realm of nature, possibly including humans, has unique rules whether voluntary or involuntary. No belief is involved. Hope maybe. Not belief.
If there were a religion or system of belief in which everyone else had learned these same lessons, I might get along quite well with such a group of people long term. Instead though, I think we are all in a different place in our personal journeys and should be. I think that is also why we struggle with confining ourselves to beliefs of others.
I have felt the power of nature. In a few oceans. Mountains across the United States. Watching the sky. Observing animals and human behaviors. Standing in the rain. Watching rivers flow. Watching fire. And air that cannot be held in my hand though it can destroy a skyscraper or hold a plane amidst clouds. As powerful as nature is in all its variations, I would not reduce it to a man-made name called God or gods.
Maybe that's akin to what the Tao is said to be, "the unnameable". Even so, no belief system I've found can adequately address all the differences between humans without reducing the power of nature to insufficient words.
I think only hubris encourages humans to try to find a thing or person that encapsulates the power of all life.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Catherine Colvin,
What a remarkable post that is. Thank you so much for sharing.
I agree with many of your thoughts. Diversity, change, interactivity, dynamism, transformation, synergy, reactivity, evolution, renewal... These are some of the constant processes in nature that many seem determined to contain, to deny, and even stop. That's just observation. I feel we come out of nature, and everything we do, too.
I welcome labels, myself. I collect them like trading cards. I feel they make me well rounded. Just this afternoon one of the fine patrons here called on me being expelled. While nobody likes being on the wrong end of attention, I can't help but feel somebody really doesn't want my opinions heard. Perhaps I should change my name to "Book your Pastor warned you about" or some such.
Anyway, love your posts. Keep up the great work.
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Catherine
Thank you for your kind words, Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson. I look forward to your posts as well. They check me : . ) When I run with a pointless rant because it can be done, your posts add reason and perspective.
I should have chosen less absolute phrasing about labels. Labels help understand, define important boundaries and create order. I use labels, too.
Clarification: Perceiving ourselves through labels that don't work for us can be stultifying.
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Catherine
I'm begining to think of organized religions as a path to self-enlightened narcissism.
Shouldn't a 10m public monument be timelessly meaningful to all people?
Love the mobius. Not so much a religious tourist trap. (What would Jesus say?)
Even if the local economy dictated the decision, that 10m might have been similarly used with less bias and fodder for division.
Are those whose prayers were answered paying for this project? Guessing it isn't free to have your answered prayer added. Or read them, because apps cost one way or another. Oh noes! Where will future answered prayers be recorded? Another public religious project?
Did the founders and approving authorities not pray for clarity or common sense before acting?
Some future day, aliens will find this and wonder, "what were 'they' thinking"?
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ServantOfJudgement
Catherine,
There are monuments bringing attention to just about every cause humanity has fronted. There's a monument for lgbtqiiaa++, actually quite a few. If you want to know what Jesus would say, fully study the entire word of God to find out. I'll give you a clue till then, Jesus would say "They spend their pounds, who are you to judge?"
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Catherine
You would speak for Jesus?
Given Jesus' view of moneychangers, it's hard to imagine he would be nonchalant about such a matter. In the KJV bible, didn't Jesus generally castigate significant beneficence that benefited few?
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ServantOfJudgement
Yes, he has great sympathy for the poor and little hope for the rich. There's a decent possibility he'd not want it built. You could be right. I don't know where the money came from, the source of the cash may spend tons the way most would agree Jesus would approve of. One way to know for sure, if some dude's name is on the monument or anywhere on plaques, we can know it was vanity.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
It's a church.
Everybody knows where the money came from.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Why are people outraged by this? The Mormons just got busted by the US government for secretly amassing over $200 BILLION DOLLARS in donations over the past 28 years to feed the hungry, provide shelter to the homeless and help the poor. All of those Christian values. But as it turns out the Church LIED to donation givers and on spent $5 million keeping the rest. No if that doesn’t make your blood boil…. The Morons have purchased and own 2% of Florida’s real estate. No what is the Governor for Florida/Presidential candidate saying? “Make America like Florida!” Do we really want the Mormons to own 2% of all of the real estate in America?
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
I think what the Mormons did was a question of breaking the law. Not quite the same comparison as to this crazy ugly monstrosity costing 10 million dollars or even a modern cathedral or temple being built costing 10 million with no aesthetic value.
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Nicholas J Page
As an English man I agree with everybody it's a wasteful spending on a project that could be used for the hungry round the world and desperate medication.Just think how many homeless people that money could benefit from it.I can't afford to visit Brum as I'm on benefits and to be honest I wouldn't waste my time who says thousands of people will turn up and guarantee the income. As I have said spend the money on helping others those who could die because of diseases, Water not fit for drinking food shortages the list is endless.Saving lives is more important.
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ServantOfJudgement
During one of my visits to you're beautiful country I spent a few hours in a few pubs to meet the locals. Just about everyone was super cool and a pleasure to speak with. One Friday evening Charlies Horse in Windsor was closing so we were all outside chatting. These two drunk girls came along with one pushing the other in a grocery cart. They hit the cobblestone and tossed the whole thing. Didn't look good. Of all of us there only one person rushed to help the two. No English person lifted a finger. It was the belligerent and nasty Christian American that did the right thing and rushed to help.
Get your peoples priorities square so you can be in a better position to critique others about helping those in need.
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Brien
Get your peoples priorities straight. It is your freakin' belief that is spending 10 million on a piece of concrete.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Not only is it a waste of money (billionaire stupidity!), but it’s based on nonsense and lies to encapsulate the gullible fools who believe in a nonexistent sky daddy they think can hear and act on their personal requests! I wonder how many of these prayers will be requests to win the lottery, get a pay rise, or some other greedy human created situations?👎
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Brien
10 million spent on a concrete ribbon? Are you freakin' zealots serious? Using your own belief structure tell me, how many people would all that money feed? How many children could get medical treatment? You dare ask for donations to accomplish "God's" work, then you use it for this worthless statue. Doesn't this go against your teachings? Wow, the worst example of a belief system that I have ever seen. Normally I would wish you peace, not this time.
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Rev. Kev
It's a shame these followers of Christ couldn't put the same amount of thought, planning, and effort into raising funds to build inexpensive housing, or provide free or heavily discounted medical services to the sick, or open food kitchens and food distribution centers for the hungry. Or all of the above. Because Jesus did directly address things like that. Never saw any Bible where he told his followers to spend gobs of money on massive church buildings, or grand monuments, or multimillion dollar ad campaigns.
Less rhetoric. Less Bible thumping. Less shaming others. More action out of pure caring to help our fellow humans with zero thought of a reward for doing so.
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ServantOfJudgement
Rev Most US cities have Christian food pantries, housing assistance and medical assistance. Smaller Christian communities do the same for their neighbors. All the things you said Christians should do, they do plus more. We can expect the same from any Christian church regardless of location. Go on line and you'll find plenty of these Christian led programs.
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Rev. Kev
First, let me point out I never wrote that NO such services existed. So pointing out that some do is beside the point.
Clearly they are insufficient to handle the task since there are still plenty of poor, homeless, hungry, and sick men, women, and children in our society scraping by. If not dying.
Second, I will also point out that not all churches are as generous in their help to others. Over the years I have tried to find help for people by contacting local churches. They were all quite ready to help their existing members, but not all all ready to help strangers off the street who were not already a member of their church.
So.....some Christians (not ANY Christian or Church) do these things. Some do not. Let alone any sign of "plus more". Clearly more is needed. My post is quite valid. All that money could have gone to help people currently not being helped. Unless you are under the impression everyone is now fine and no one else is in need of aid?
We could also use more in the way of low cost or free vocational training to help the jobless unable to afford tuition, or qualify (or pay for) student loans, to acquire useful skills for the current job market.
Some of that money could have even gone to lobbyists to push legislation to help the poor and needy. Especially since we have people running the U.S. who look at such people and just see "lazy bums who need to pick themselves up by their own bootstraps" and who are wholly undeserving of "handouts".
Plenty of work still to do.
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Catherine
There are also many individuals who are homeless due to having mental health conditions serious enough that they are unemployable.
Just because someone looks healthy, does not mean they can work.
Who, with a healthy mind and body, chooses to be homeless?
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Brien
10 million for a concrete ribbon? Oh please SOJ, please justify this. Even your own mythical being said not to do stupid stuff like this. 10 million could go a very long way in Europe to helping those organizations you speak of. But this horrible waste of money is being spent in the name of YOUR god for garbage. Do you or any of your believers take any responsibility for this? If not, why?
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ServantOfJudgement
Brein,
If you're worried about starving Europeans, try to get them to stop reducing farm output levels to save the planet from climbing change. Good luck though, they're hell bend on decreasing the food supply. Ireland almost culled 200k cattle to cool the planet s couple months ago. Maybe they did it already, dunno.
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Brien
Typical. Just like a myth believer to side step an issue. You seem to be perfectly happy with grotesque showings of waste by the 1 percenters. There is just no reasoning with people like you. Your ideas and beliefs will destroy this planet. I'm just glad I won't be here to see it.
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ServantOfJudgement
Brein,
Dang, I'm always in hot water here from just about all angles
Alright, let's not sidestep then. Would I spend my money the way I want? Yes I would, same as you. So far I bet we're ok. Would I build a $15m monument? No, not to anyone or anything. I bet you wouldn't either. So far so good I hope.
Should I be free to spend my money the way I want? I say yes, I am free to spend my money at my pleasure.
If you say yes then the two sides can find common ground and there's hope. If you say no then you're right, the the whole mess will fall, probably much sooner than anyone is willing to face up to. These things come overnight.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Why are ethics questions always like: "Is it ethical to steal money to buy bread to feed your starving family", and not: "Is it ethical to hoard money when families are starving?"
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Brien
That is a great question. I have no answer for it other than greed. But you pose a great question. I simply don't know. Peace ✌️
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Brien
Yes, you have a right to spend or even waste your money, as do I. But, just because you can do a thing, should you? I would love to get myself a brand new movie screen along with a hd projector, (game nights would be awesome), but that money would be better spent on bills or repairs. I don't need a movie projector. Now, 10 mil could go a long way to helping others. Yes, they have a right to spend it on a giant statue. But if they were claiming it under a belief that I followed, I would be p******... er upset and I would call them out on it. Maybe you can tell me why others of the mythical belief don't.
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Mary
And do you attempt to convert because many do. If you really want to help do it without bringing religion into it at all. Do it because that's who you are as a person. We see people here sleeping on the sidewalk and our vets hungry going without and they put this up!? This thing they did was a total waste of money.
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Catherine
Homelessness is more about profit margins than not.
Homelessness is big business and, like the percentage of people held in prisons and in the military, the numbers of homeless individuals is integrated with economic survival.
Several years ago I read an eyeopening interview with a government legislator, in which it was stated that "the average homeless person is worth $1,500 per head" per month, to shelters.
In shelters, that income is a primary reason for signing in every day and being enrolled in trap-like programs that keep homeless people in a shelter or on the streets for a period of time before they are allowed to do better for themselves, spending taxpayer money for government funding that mostly lines pockets of charities.
Furthermore, charities that provide service to homeless individuals are often understaffed and insufficiently trained for the work they do. While management is paid well to maintain the status quo.
Church associated drug programs... much the same.
Look deeper and you'll find that is a fact. Charities do not provide care and housing from the goodness of their collective hearts. Those who run a charity are all about the money in their bank accounts.
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Mary
Yes it's a shame that they are not following Jesus and paying their taxes because if they were things such of this could happen reguarless of how selfish and greedy they are.
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Brien
Are they actually christians or just greedy people building a giant statue to themselves?
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Rev. Mike Eggleston
I don't suppose they could afford to build a monument proportional to all the unanswered prayers. Still, it's their money to waste, just don't expect the UK taxpayers to subsidise such a ridiculous project. I hope their won't be any favouritism when considering the application for planning permission either.
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Magistar Mormaer MacLean
What an absolute waste of money.
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ServantOfJudgement
I wonder how many construction workers will be able to buy socks for their kids when the project kicks off. I'll bet they won't think it's a waste.
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
That's a very shortsighted view.
Construction is contract work - they build something, and then move on. What happens after they finish, or if there is no next job, or the construction worker is hurt on the job?
This is why Jesus was NOT WRONG when he said we need to take care of each other.
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Kenneth Eagle Spirit
Money well spent? Hardly. Think of all the people whose prayers could've been answered had this money been spent on food and medicine for the needy. This is nothing more than a monument to ego.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Teaching (in this case, indoctrinating) little-bitty kiddies to pray (instead of using their power of reason) is clearly child abuse; however culturally-imposed child abuse.
In my religion (Secular Humanist Pantheism— in which God and nature are interchangeable— depending on the circumstances) there is no need to pray; because whatever what one might pray for, nature (AKA, God) will take care of it— in one way or another.
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ServantOfJudgement
Nonsense. Prayer is akin to positive thinking which can have a positive effect on reality, even if the God of the Bible doesn't exist.
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Brien
Ok, I will give you that one. Prayer can help to offer internal strength. People have different ways of calling up strength, prayer is certainly one of those ways. But prayer alone does not fix problems. People fix problems and some of those don't pray at all. Peace ✌️
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Omg. Childabuse? Are you serious? You are mentally disturbed. Altho, I think it's a waste of money .
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Randy C Hamilton
Childhood Indoctrination IS Child Abuse. DUH
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
I never said it wasn't . Teaching little kids learn how to pray is not childhood indoctrination in any religion. Only in the minds of atheists. So go away fr comments on my posts.
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Mary
My mother telling me as a child that if we kids weren't good God would kill us with lightening was child abuse. And this 10 million is not just their money as long as they are getting a free ride and not paying taxes it is our money owed to the people that they are blowing. Until they are paying taxes they are not following Jesus.
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Brien
I do agree with most of what you said. However, child abuse is something I have seen first hand. Parents have the absolute right and responsibility to teach beliefs to their children. They are solely responsible for doing everything they can to make certain they raise good humans. I of course do not believe in their mythical god thing, nor do I believe in yours. You can see how this gets a little muddy right? Anyway, it is a horrible and grotesque misuse of resources that could go to helping people.
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Mary
Beliefs are one thing threats of death are another. Why not teach them abut the cleansing of the temples and then explain WHY churches aren't paying their taxes yet.
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Brien
I get you. But I think it is more about responsibility. If something is done in the name of a belief that is grossly incompetent, where is the outrage from the people of that belief? Why are they silent? Is it because they agree with it? Parents have the right to teach their faith to their children. It is up to them to teach the responsibility too. That is what's missing. Peace ✌️
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Amber Fry
Teaching them to and forcing them to are two different things. Learning is good. Forcing is not. If they learn it and then don't want to do it then it shouldn't be forced.
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Brien
When they are adults, then they can live as they wish. As long as the parents are responsible for them, children need to honor the rules set by the parents. Sorry, but that is how it should be.
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I'm certainly not opposed to Christian monuments, representing notable things. However, I believe we should keep it within reason financially. The Church needs to be kept, the Ministers, missionaries, etc. First and foremost, we must have ample funds to carry out the mission of God's Hope! Godspeed!!