cute baby with 'no' sign over face
Is having a child immoral? One activist group says yes.

Residents of Portland, Oregon might’ve noticed some interesting billboards popping up throughout the City of Roses lately.

In early 2022, three billboards warning Oregonians to “Stop Having Kids” sprouted up in the Portland area. With messages like “Stop Having Kids” and “A Lot of Humans Wish They Had Never Been Born” in stark black and white, it reads as more of a warning than a suggestion.

The message is certainly clear. But who’s behind it, and why?

Meet the Antinatalists

It turns out these “Stop Having Kids” billboards were put up by the appropriately named activist group Stop Having Kids.

Citing the “unconscionable amount of needless suffering, injustice, and death in the world,” their website says, "it is a moral imperative that we strive to minimize and prevent… as many new lives as possible.”

They are advocates of the antinatalist movement, which the group defines as “a philosophical and ethical stance against human reproduction, rooted in harm reduction and rational consideration for future life.”

In short: There is too much suffering in the world as it is. And you can’t suffer if you’re never born.

Their website lists a whole host of additional reasons for their opposition to birth, including the potential for birth defects, parenthood regret, and lack of consent. Birth is immoral, they say, because no child can consent to being born.

Be Fruitful and Don’t Multiply

The eye-catching billboards aren’t their only means of bringing the message to the people. They’ve also upped their ground game, taking to the streets for sidewalk demonstrations with signs to espouse their beliefs, which include normalizing childfree adults, veganism, and destigmatizing abortion.

Many Christians were unsurprisingly bristling at the whole anti-birth message, considering the Bible is decidedly pro-birth. Family advocates point to passages like Genesis 1:28, which says: “And God said to them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.’" There's even a faith-based movement dedicated specifically to procreation and making big families, known as Quiverfull

However, antinalatists have faced complaints unrelated to religion as well. Some critics accuse them of being selective in how they spread their message. 

“Not down with eugenics,” said one passerby in a video posted to Stop Having Kids’ YouTube channel. “I don’t like Nazis who pretend to help others and try to make minorities not have children,” said another.

Stop Having Kids repeatedly and strongly push back against eugenics claims, arguing that they “are totally against human procreation all across the board.”

Still, the group says the grand majority of their interactions on the street are supportive – controversial as their message might be. 

What do you make of the antinatalism movement? Is having a child really an immoral act? Or should these activists instead live and let live?

50 comments

  1. Nicholas J Page's Avatar Nicholas J Page

    I don't believe it Who in God's name are these people.Having children is a wonderful happening event.Being a father myself,a grandfather and a great uncle is one of the best times of my life is Welcoming in a newborn is an out of this world experience.What about these poor women who can't conceive like my wife. What would you idiots say to her face.Good job we live in the UK So you will never meet us.And with the tripe your sprouting you wouldn't be able to get on a plane back to Uncle Sam I may be disabled but you wouldn't want to face me and I am not a violent person unless I'm protecting my nearest and dearest.Do yourselves a favour and crawl back under the rock you came from..

    1. Michael K. Bruce's Avatar Michael K. Bruce

      Amen brother

    2. Deacon Michael's Avatar Deacon Michael

      Indeed I 2nd that.

    3. Nicky's Avatar Nicky

      I totally understand where you're coming from but let's face it "Some" ppl in my opinion should not get the privilege to have children.

    4. DubSpell's Avatar DubSpell

      Have you ever met someone who was abused by their parents as a child? Or people who have neglected their children? Different people = different experiences. Big fat duh.

  1. William Dusenberry's Avatar William Dusenberry

    From Bishop William Dusenberry, DD; PhD, two academic MA's, four ULC doctorates (besides the ULC DD) twice sainted by the ULC, and a FFRF celebrant.

    Humanity will come to an end, primarily due to human overpopulation -- which is now currently adding about 80.000.000 additional humans to our Earth every year.

    Overpopulation is the leading cause of wars, global overheating. freshwater depletion; desertification; the continuance of belief in silly medieval religious nonsense; the election of demagogues by the GOP; and everything else where there is not enough money to provide adequate medical care, housing, food, clothing and safety to the less fortunate -- who are the majority of the 7.5 billion of us currently inhabiting our planet.

    So those who advocate the use of birth control are the real hero's -- while those who consider the use of birth control (the GOP, Roman Catholics, and now the Southern Baptists) are doing as much as they can, to bring about the "end of times" when overpopulation soon renders humankind extinct.

    As a meteor ended the era of the dinosaurs (some 65 million years ago) overpopulation is positioned to end humankind in many of our current lifetimes.

    Is the Pope worse than Putin/Trump in this regard? -- we'll soon find out.

    1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

      William Dusenberry, nobody here or in the world at large cares about your being a "Bishop","Doctor of Divinity","PhD" or your "two academic MAs","four ULC doctorates" or your being "canonized twice as a saint", none of which you are living up to, since no actual saint advocates abortions of unborn children or the other things that you do, but which you are always tossing in people's faces, just to appease and bolster your rightful inferiority complex!! Why is a member of the Freedom From Religion Foundation bothering with getting "canonized twice as a saint", anyway, when that isn't freedom from religion or in line with the philosophy of that organization? Why the discrepancy? As for controlling the population, when just aborting unborn children or preventing them from being born aren't enough to keep the population down, according to many people, they will want other groups to be the next victims, such as old people, mentally ill people, disabled people, "inferior" races or ethnic groups, low income and homeless people, or just any other people that they don't like!! The same as many other people, you don't care about what happens to other people, but would only care about it if it were done to you and your family. But it will come around to them and you, eventually, when we start down that road!! You would already know that if you were actually a Bishop or a saint or any of these other things that you are always telling people here and in the world that you are and acting on it and speaking accordingly, which proves all of those things to be phony for you!! Real saints believe in loving their neighbors as themselves, doing unto others as they would have others do unto them, and Inasmuch as they have done it unto the least of these, Jesus' brethren, they have done it unto Him, and don't just ignore all of that and make up "being saints" to suit themselves, as you are doing!! More proof of your phoniness!! Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and many other genocidal dictators and serial killers also believed that there were "too many people" in the world and did what they could to reduce that number!! The world is big enough for many more millions or billions of people, with large unpopulated or sparsely populated areas of the world, and means of production of food for all of them already or in under ocean farming or living for people or transformation of desert areas into farmland, potentially, and if the world ever actually became overpopulated, the excess could be siphoned off onto terraformed and colonized planets, such as Mars. The Bible tells us to be fruitful and multiply, which is a much bigger directive than anything that a fraudulent "Bishop" comes up with!!

      1. John Bolen's Avatar John Bolen

        Very well said

  1. Frank Peter Guarino's Avatar Frank Peter Guarino

    One of the biggest benefits of being gay is that I can definitely say I'm doing my part of not accidentally having a baby. Stop having babies, should be a slogan of places like Planned Parenthood and other pro-abortion clinics, as that's what makes them all of their money. NOW, if FDR wouldn't have created the welfare system then people wouldn't be popping out babies to get monthly checks and benefits as well. On the other side of the coin, childbirth is truly a blessing and should stop being abused. One of the lines from my favorite all time movie 'Starship Troopers' says, I joined because I wanna have babies. RESPONSIBLE parenting (ie- Baltimore Mom), is what will help improve our world.

    1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      Don't feel bad, Frank. Someday I bet they'll find a way for men to have babies too. And it won't matter if the male mothers are gay or straight, although it would be more difficult for a straight woman to impregnate her husband. Maybe she could find a bi-sexuals man to do it for her.

      1. Frank Peter Guarino's Avatar Frank Peter Guarino

        Feel bad? You must be reading something I didn't post. I don't feel bad at all, I actually hope that there will one day be an enforcement of only responsible parenting.

        1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

          That sounds like a good idea to me too, Frank.

        2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

          As far as I know Frank I don't have any kids other, and never wanted any, but am all for other people having them. I wish only good, responsible couples had them, but seriously doubt that will ever be the case. Nevertheless, we need people in this world. I don't want my future incarnations to be on other planets, looking like no telling what. I'm used to the human form, and this planet. Maybe if I keep living a good life, next time I'll be born into a good family again, in no worse of a nation than this one.

  1. Alice Kay Looney's Avatar Alice Kay Looney

    I decided very early on not to reproduce. I knew I had serious allergy issues (allergic to soybeans - the food of the future, plus about 70% of what I eat) and hereditary skin problems that might be passed on. Not to mention that I foresaw our current decent into fascism before I was out of college, so.... I look at friends' grandchildren now and think how horrible their lives will probably be. I'm glad I didn't bring any children into this mess....

    1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      I just don't like being around children, Alice. They get on my nerves. I even live in an apartment building where all but two of the tennant's are older than me, and I'm 59 years old. I don't mind being around well behaved children, when their parents are with them.

  1. Sheila Gae Lucas's Avatar Sheila Gae Lucas

    When there are Billions of ANYTHING, it no longer is special, or a beautiful snowflake, or even wanted...just another pebble on the beach.... except pebbles are pretty....too many folks, over eat our ability to feed ourselves, polute every piece of water, and land, and air. We are not special and beautiful and wanted. Weve overpopulated ourselves, and you continue to make excuses why it's a good thing. Want some chili?

  1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

    Wonder if this includes Jesus? I'm sure he was embarrassed by his father's murderous, tyrant actions against innocent people.

    1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      Yes Douglas, the world would be a much better place if Joseph would have aborted Mary's immaculate conception.

      1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

        Carl, the world definitely wouldn't have been a better place or even a tolerable place without the birth of Christ, despite how much many people have distorted and twisted Him to fit their own agenda and "justify" themselves, because those who got Him right wouldn't, then, have been here. No Catholic or Christian hospitals, no Christian aid or social concern organizations helping homeless people, due to natural disasters, such as hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, earthquakes, wildfires, and because of economic conditions and mental health problems and disability, no humanitarian aid to refugees fleeing Ukraine or poverty stricken people anywhere else, and no mercy or compassion for anyone other than oneself. Only those who have never needed hospital care or any other assistance and never will (which is NOBODY!!) have any room for saying that "Christ should never have been born", when all of that concern for others exists because it has been inspired and commanded by Christ, Who said "Love your neighbor as yourself, Do unto others as you would have others do unto you, and Inasmuch as you have done it unto the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me". The Inquisitors and other wrongdoers falsely calling themselves "Christians" don't cancel out or overrule all these examples of true following of Christ and lights shining in the darkness! Conversely, without Christ, we would be left only with people who care only about themselves and none of this concern for other people, and the self-centered world, and Roman Empire still ruling over the world or some modern equivalent of it! Baby Jesus and many other babies are routinely thrown out with the bathwater, which is always more than the babies, because people concentrate far more on that bathwater and forget about the babies!! Jesus knew the truth about His Father, no matter what lies some Bible writers told about Him or words that they put into His mouth, and so wasn't ashamed of His Father at all, but only loved Him!!

      2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        P.S. Not that I believe in immaculate conceptions, or other biblical fairytales.

        1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

          Carl, you and other people here and in the world can believe that Christ and the Virgin birth and the Bible are fairy tales all that you want, but the good that they have produced (not the evil from not even following them!) aren't fairy tales! The same as you can doubt that Rome was founded by Romulus and Remus who were brought up by wolves and stories about Buddha or in Hindu mythology, but the fact that there is a Rome and Buddhism and Hinduism proved that they all started from somebody and had factual bases, and so, likewise, Christianity's being here proves that it had a founder and factual basis, and that isn't a fairy tale.

      3. Raymond Dennis Lams's Avatar Raymond Dennis Lams

        Why read a comment column in a supposedly religious publication? You really have it in for the major christian churches and (seemingly) just cannot refrain from making negative sexual comments. And then the bible also seems to be fair game for those same negative comments.

  1. Michael K. Bruce's Avatar Michael K. Bruce

    Live and let Live

    1. Sheila Gae Lucas's Avatar Sheila Gae Lucas

      Live and let DIE

  1. William Waugh's Avatar William Waugh

    I just read here a potential upside to the devastating delays in distribution of covid vaccines and outright denial there was a problem.

    However, I am not willing to give accolades to the former president (45), for anything.

    Anywho, the antinatelists are correct. Overpopulation, especially among the least intelligent among us may be the end to us all.

    1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      Face it, William. We're all going to die anyway. And after I'm dead I won't care if the rest of humanity ceases to exist. I'll just have the rest of my incarnations on other planets. I'm sure many of us have already. As a matter of fact, some people seem so totally alien that I bet this is their first incarnation on this planet. And I really wish a lot of them would go back to wherever they came from.

  1. John Bolen's Avatar John Bolen

    I believe what the sign's say is " Stop having white babies " .

    1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      John, I think babies should come in a lot of different colors, instead of just a few.

      1. John Bolen's Avatar John Bolen

        I agree

        1. Raymond Dennis Lams's Avatar Raymond Dennis Lams

          "Jesus loves the little children of the world."

    2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      I thought they were only talking about those stupid, ugly babies from Oregon. Us Texans produce much higher quality babies, that's why they outlawed abortion in our state. This nation needs more of our superior quality Texan babies, and less of those inferior babies from those Yankee states, such as Oregon.

      1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

        @Carl Bernard Elfstrom Are you sure? I thought Texas always wants to boast about having the biggest of everything. Forcing women to have babies they don't want will increase the population. But I got to tell you the people is Texas are want to keep people stupid. It was Texas that tried to outlaw the teaching of Critical Thinking skills to students in grades K-12. Good think those smart people in Oregon and the rest of the states put Texas in their place. With all of these unwarted births, Texas will be know as the state with the biggest number of stupid people in the country. I've meet a lot of Texan blonds and fake blonds who are pretty dumb. Might you be one of them?

      2. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

        Carl, I'm not at all sure that you really want to incite the envy of the Oregonians and other citizens in Yankee States and make them all want to crowd into Texas, without armed militias at the borders preventing it, so that their babies might end up looking better and being smarter, too, even if it won't work, from something special in the air or water or something going on down there and their babies will be safe from abortion!! To the point that there would be less room for native Texans and they would have to be belligerent toward these newcomers (more than usual!) and try to drive them back to where they came from or end up going where they came from themselves and try to start new Texases there and not become stupid or ugly there, too!! This could all be avoided by following the sage (and parsley, rosemary, and thyme) advice of that great guru William Claude Dukinfield: "Never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump"! We certainly don't need the shifting of entire populations and any unnecessary (any at all!) smartening up of stupid or beautifying of ugly people! A word to the wise is sufficient!

        1. Bobby Roy's Avatar Bobby Roy

          Comment removed by user.

        2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

          Yeah, that's a good song, John. Are you going to Scarborough Fair, parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme. Don't forget about thyme, if you want that Cajun creole taste. And there's nothing wrong with babies from Louisiana either!

          1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

            If I went to Scarborough Fair, Strawberry Fields, Munchkinland, Willie Wonka's Chocolate Factory, down the rabbit hole, and every other fanciful place, I would still try to keep an eye on the thyme and on Rosemary, to make sure that she isn't bringing her damn devil baby around, as if there weren't already more than enough of them, since you can take a good thing too far and not enough of a good thing is a very bad thing, which is just the kind of consistent and sensible thinking that we have far too much of in this world right now! And that would make it a very bad thing, until it stops being so infrequent, and then it might be alright, after all! It's anyone's guess! Thyme has a way of slipping away before you know it and then you are twenty or thirty years older, and saying "Where did all my spices and Utes go to and who took my seasoning rack?!! Give it back!!". And a few babies from Louisiana in the gumbo have never hurt the taste of it too much and some thought that it even made it better!!

  1. Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson's Avatar Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson

    My wife and I did not have children due to the jobs we had at the time, both in the USAF. As what we did had one or both of us away from home quite a lot, felt it unfair to bring children into it.

    I am a proud uncle and granduncle. My nieces and nephews have grown up to be good people, who are raising their children to be the same.

    I disagree with the anti birth advocates, but I served to defend their right to express themselves.

  1. Guy Sutherland McLaren's Avatar Guy Sutherland McLaren

    They have a point, the worlds woes are due to overpopulation, cars are great but there may be too many, Staeks are awesome but too many cattle, Having a small family is wise in many respects, having children you can afford even wiser. Big families are the problem, not babies in general.

  1. Julie Armstrong's Avatar Julie Armstrong

    I think that reproduction is a PERSONAL CHOICE.GOVERNEMENT & RELIGION needs to stay out of it. It may sound weird being Ordained and having this opinion Here it goes:

    I have more respect or a women who chooses to terminate pregnancy than go through it and take it out on the child, neglect it , abuse it. What about women who take birth control and get pregnant? They chose not to have kids and the method failed, then they have a second option. What it deformity is in place (I'm not that kind of mom, I personally couldn't/wouldn.t do it. What about rape, incest, harmful to mom? There are many factors involved Case studies say 60% of unwanted children wind up in the system, run away, in gangs, in prison. True some get adopted, it's more rare than you think. These kids are growing up with low self esteem, abandonment issues, they become callus, hard and unsociable. Before you get angry some do have happy endings, yet few. I believe in the right to choose. Look at animals how intelligent they are. They thin the herd of newborns knowing they won't survive. What is so wrong about nature?

    TRUE SITUATIONS:

    OK just give up for adoption. Hmmm I know someone who did that ( Her boyfriend said me or kid) she had baby gave it up for adoption, she Loved him ( I would have said later, even if I choose to end or keep it). He left her until she had kid and gave it away. The stayed together, got married have 3 boys. She kept trying for a girl. At the age of 18 she decide to look up the Bio's. Can you imagine how this child felt knowing that her Bio parents gave her up yet kept the brothers? Awful!!

    OK what about the drug addict who is so lazy not to get a job, insurance, food stamps, because food stamps requires she look for a job. DES does nothing except say clean your trailer. She lives in a trailer with NO HEAT in the winter, has a dog and cat with no liter boxes, Feces on floor NO RUNNING WATER. This 5 year old lives like this and nothing is DONE. Bare foot in the snow No snow coat. This is real people! No one cares enough about this kid to step in. I myself have called CPS, only to find out she has 5 cases against her. Yet kid still there and one on the way. She trades drugs and herself to live. ( This kids was born with Gastroschisis!!) So do I believe in right to choose? YES! With stipulations up to 13 weeks, unless harm of mom and deformed kids is the case. The creation CAN NOT I REPEAT CAN NOT LIVE OUTSIDE of the body until 24 weeks. At that time it's human. Would our world take care of itself if we populated less? Yes, however last time I looked so far we live in a free COUNTRY, Until it becomes COMMUNISTIC . We aren't that far away from it. That's a different article. I think it is NO ONES DECISION, EXCEPT THE MOM to make that choice. Ultimately in the end its MOM decision. . Statistics show in men unwanted babies they don't stick around, Parents and Grandparents say they might help, however when the kids are 8 and the grandparents are 80?? How many times I see parents (MOM's with major deformed kids and she looks like she 70 or 80 and she's so worn out at 50. She dies who takes care of kid? BOTTOM LINE MOM's personal choice and hers alone!! Starting to ramble so I'll end

    Namaste .

  1. Pink Clover's Avatar Pink Clover

    If you want children, have them. If you don't want children, don't have them.

    Yes, overpopulation is a serious problem mostly because in many countries birth control of any sort is not acceptable for religious reasons. That is a problem. If you cannot feed your children, you shouldn't have them.

    But also in many countries, including the US, if there aren't enough kids then as we age up there will not be enough workers or enough people putting money into the system to help everyone get thru old age.

    Ya, we need kids. IF you want them. Please don't have kids if you don't!!

  1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

    The only place in this world that can use antinatalists is China. They are way too overpopulated. And they couldn't be very intelligent,or they'd wear condoms.

  1. John P. Reilly's Avatar John P. Reilly

    There is no more fuller blessing from God than the joys of parenting. The people who are anti-abortionist are simply realizing their own failures in life and are attempting to correct those guilt's through punishing others. Rape and incest and harm to the mother during term of baby or childbirth are the only reasons that abortions should be permitted because that child is a sin. Being a father is the greatest victory of my life and my children are a real blessing to me.

    1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      John, I feel truly blessed by not being a parent, but am happy for those of you who feel blessed by being parents.

    2. Sheila Gae Lucas's Avatar Sheila Gae Lucas

      I'm gonna have an abortion just cuz you reminded me why I need to...thanks for reminding me! See you next month!

    3. Sheila Gae Lucas's Avatar Sheila Gae Lucas

      I'm gonna have an abortion just cuz you reminded me why I need to...thanks for reminding me! See you next month!

      1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        Sheila, I hope you have Dr.Hannibal Lechter's book, The Joy Of Cooking! No sense in letting that meat go to waste.

  1. Philenda L. Daniel's Avatar Philenda L. Daniel

    Is having children Immoral?

    This is my perspective as I perceive it was Yeshua’s (Jesus) perspective. AS YOU BELIEVE…it is done unto you. There are probably over 7 billion people on this planet. There are 7 billion perceptions of Truth. That being said, there is no argument only perception.

    From Aramaic to English: Matthew 8 versus 5 through 13

    5But when Yeshua entered Kapernahum, a certain Centurion approached him, and he prayed to him. 6And he said, “My Lord, my boy is lying in the house and is paralyzed, and he is badly tormented.” 7Yeshua said to him, “I shall come and heal him.” 8That Centurion answered and said, “My lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say in a word and my boy will be healed.” 9“I also am a man under authority and soldiers are under my hand, and I say to this one, 'Go', and he goes, and to another, 'Come', and he comes, and to my servant, 'Do this', and he does.” 10But when Yeshua heard, he was amazed, and he said to them that came with him, “Truly I say to you, that not even in Israel have I found faith like this.” 11“But I say to you, that many will come from The East and from The West and will recline with Abraham and Isaaq and Jaqob in the Kingdom of Heaven.” 12But the children of the Kingdom will be cast out to outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 13And Yeshua said to that Centurion, “Go, it will be done for you just as you have believed”, and his boy was healed at that moment.

    If one asks me specifically: Is, it immoral to have children. I would have more than one answer and many more Questions. Why does one want children? Can one afford children? Do you feel supported in the choice of having children? Is one responsible enough to take pristine care of oneself; not abuse alcohol or drugs while the child is in utero? Worse yet…Will the child be loved with dignity, or abused, tormented in unspeakable ways?

    We cannot have a knee jerk response to this question. A child…children are...as I perceive them are Sacred Trusts with the Universe.

    There are those that see children as possessions. There are those that see children as a commodity. There are those that do not think of children as a Sacred Trust. In some societies the elder population outweighs the young and little people populations; these societies want more babies being born. A race that have been in the majority may now be facing becoming a minority. How will society serve the baby, the child, the preteen, the teen, the young adult, the adult, and finally the old man or woman down the street?

    Many societies are ill prepared, valuing the profit margin over the value ALL children’s education, socio-economic needs, and of course, there right to be seen and heard. Romanticizing new Divine Life entering the physical realm is nice, yet not practical. There are deeper issues that need to be address other than morality.

    Do I personally believe, perceive it is immoral to have a child? No. Do I believe being responsible and caring when making such a Sacred Trust with the Universe? Yes, I definitely most deeply do believe and perceive it is a moral duty. I raised three children and a stepchild. I have three grandchildren.

    Two of my children wanted to bring children and two of my children did not to want to bring Divine Life into this plane of reality. Both choices are moral. Both choices are correct. They based their decisions for having children or not on their beliefs…not anyone else’s beliefs and perceptions. This is as it should be.

    From my point of view, judging those with different perceptions of moral touchstones is fine as long as one’s own moral touchstones are not imposed upon the one’s being judged. Every individual has a right to practice and express what they believe. Each individual has the freedom to attach themselves to those beliefs or remain detached and move forward with their own valid perceptions and beliefs.

    Philenda L Daniel 13/04/2022

  1. DubSpell's Avatar DubSpell

    Yes. We have become a quantity over quality planet because of overpopulation. Reproduction should be a privilege reserved for those who've earned the wisdom, foresight, empathy, and intelligence necessary for successfully raising another healthy and functioning person. Why do we have to pay, study, test, register, and insure ourselves just to operate a vehicle when there is no regulation on something so heavily significant as creating a person to bring into our chaotic world? It is damaging to the economy, environment, and eventually mental health of other at large when we can't successfully find a way to parse resources among those already existing, but especialy when you don't have the resources(even mental/emotional) to be up to the task. At that point it is contributing to the problem. Most people who make babies do it because they lack wisdom, foresight, empathy, and intelligence. Please watch the movie Idiocracy if you still can not see the obviousness of this epidemic.

    1. Philenda L. Daniel's Avatar Philenda L. Daniel

      I watched the movie Idocracy more than once. Just because the right kind of people do breed...and the wrong kind of people do not breed...does not guarantee the outcome of the offspring.

      Aldous Huxley's 1932 Brave New World the first novel to ever mention cloning. If I recall the ethos of that once fictional society was "Community, Identity, Stability." I'm also remembering that having a child through natual biological means was illegal because it threatened that societies very ethos. Cloning was the only way that humans were created, and they were raised by the State.

      In the book, The Brave New World, there were four types A, B, C, D clones. A type clones were highly intelligent and the A list of society. B type clones less intelligent, C type even less intelligent, and finally D type basically genetically created to do all of societies crappy jobs...one step from drooling.

      Perhaps this type of society would be what the comment and tone of your words are describing?

      Instead of money putting people in their place genetics kept people in their places. Society maybe moving in the cloning direction anyway, meaning...cloning...and genetic manipulation of gnomes within DNA ...it would be the best way to control the Intellitec, the color, the sex of future generations.

      However, I feel the naturally organic, unaltered GMO product is better because it is more interesting, more fun, more human. Being flawed is our humanity, and while there are many ways to create a human...the outcome of that human can never be guaranteed even when strictly, anal retentively controlled. Chaos always fines a way to intervene, and yes... The Chaos Theory.

      I feel a person must consider children longer than...question: "Do you want Kids?" answer: "Yep." or Six weeks after being with someone asking and deciding then.

      “When all the world recognizes beauty as beauty, this in itself is ugliness. When all the world recognizes good as good, this in itself is evil.” Lao Tzu as translated by John C.H. Wu as published by Shambala Boston & India 1990.

      Yes, the world is overpopulated. However, the larger portion of the population is older. People are not having children in the industrialized first and second worlds at a very high rate as to be able to have enough populous to sustain economies and ways of life most take for granted. How do you want specifically how do you want repopulation to happen? Through the vehicle of cloning where genetically modified humans are manufactured in a State controlled facility? or the old-fashioned way yet with some thought and care by parents and society?

      Be careful what one wishes for...there are always unforeseen as well as the foreseen consequences.

      May Love fill your heart and Peace be with your thoughts.

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