Earlier this month, the Florida legislature passed the wildly controversial ‘Don’t Say Gay’ bill, and the legislation has now been signed by governor Ron DeSantis.
In its wake, other similar proposals are popping up elsewhere.
The original bill's name was coined thanks to provisions that would severely limit what teachers can say about homosexuality and gender identity in classrooms.
There has been an outpouring of criticism in response. Opponents say that by forbidding any discussions of sexual orientation, the bill will endanger the lives of LGBTQ youth by forcing them to keep their identities secret. The bill also allows parents to sue school districts or even individual teachers over potential violations.
Students staged walkouts across the state in protest.
Nevertheless, perhaps inspired by the attention around Florida’s bill, legislators in other states are proposing their own ‘Don’t Say Gay’ bills – some of which are even more restrictive.
Don’t Say Gay… Again
They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and if that is the case, then Florida should feel very flattered.
Tennessee, Kansas, Georgia, Indiana, Oklahoma, and Louisiana are all now considering ‘Don’t Say Gay’-style bills.
The original legislation in Florida prohibits “classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity” in primary schools across the state.
But similar bills take those rules even further. The Louisiana proposal, for example, would not only ban teachers from discussing sexual orientation or gender identity in classrooms K-8th grade, but also decrees that "no teacher, school employee or other presenter shall discuss his own sexual orientation or gender identity with students in kindergarten through grade twelve."
LGBTQ advocates were outraged, arguing that the bill effectively pushes gay teachers right back into the closet. What are gay teachers supposed to do, they asked, if a student asks them about a photo of their same-sex spouse on their desk?
And that's not all:
- An Indiana bill would require written consent from the parents of students under 18 for any discussions on sexual orientation, gender identity, and “transgenderism”.
- In Georgia, lawmakers want to ban “inappropriate classroom discussion of gender identity and sexual orientation.”
- An Oklahoma bill would prohibit public schools from hiring anyone “that promotes positions in the classroom or at any function of the public school that is in opposition to closely held religious beliefs of students.”
- Meanwhile, in Tennessee, there's a proposed ban on all instruction that would “promote, normalize, support, or address controversial social issues, such as lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, and transgender lifestyles,” arguing that “the promotion of LGBT issues and lifestyles in public schools offends… Tennessee residents with Christian values.”
Is Gay Okay for Kids?
As these ‘Don’t Say Gay’ copycats have sprouted up in states across the nation, LGBTQ advocates argue that far from protecting kids – as sponsors say is their goal – these bills do real harm to LGBTQ students by making them feel unwelcome in their own communities.
“Every LGBTQ young person deserves to attend a school that provides an inclusive, affirmative environment – not one that aims to erase their existence,” said Amit Paley, CEO of The Trevor Project. “We know that LGBTQ youth already face higher risk for bullying, depression, and suicide – and this bill will only add to the stigma that fuels these disparities." The Trevor Project found that 42% of LGBTQ youth seriously considered suicide last year.
But proponents of this controversial legislation say that they’re simply putting the power of explaining gender identity and sexual orientation into the hands of parents. As Florida state Rep. Joe Harding said, "families are families. Let the families be families. The school district doesn't need to insert themselves at that point when children are still learning how to read and do basic math."
While some of these copycat bills have failed to make much headway, others have a decent chance of becoming law. Either way, the media attention serves as a likely catalyst for similar legislation to the same effect in the future.
What do you think? Should public school parents get the final word on everything their children hear about homosexuality in the classroom, or are these bills just brazenly harmful to LGBTQ youth?
98 comments
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David Arthur Lewis
These bills are in direct conflict with the US Constitution because they create an Established State Religion. They have no basis in public safety, public health, nor best practices in education or counseling. Religious bigotry is the only justification. And THAT is un-American.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry no they dont. First there is no such thing as separation of church and state in the constitution. The constitution was ratified in 1787 and the very first mention of this myth was in a letter to the bishops who opposed Jefferson in 1802 a good 15 years after the constitution was ratified. Now keep in mind that it clearly states that any change in the constitution would require a constitutional amendment, not a letter or 9 judges in black robes. So show us exactly where this myth was passed and made part of the constitution. You cant.
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David Arthur Lewis
"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or restricting the free exercise thereof..." It's called The First Amendment, Bozo, and the Constitution would never have been passed without it. In fact, Mr. Knownothing, this ULC church was founded specifically to prove that point by fighting the government's restrictions. Religion is personal and has NO place in democracy. Laws concerning religious beliefs and practices are tyranny. YOU do not get to interpret the US Constitution until you become a Supreme Court Justice.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry oh ignorant one, Homosexuality is not a religion and that just destroys your whole point, that is if you even had one.
Try again child as you screwed up badly
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Richard Basen
When did anyone say that being gay was a religion. YOU are trying to use your beliefs to legalize discrimination against people you THINK are not like you! That goes against the teachings of Christ and the US Constitution! You want laws that support YOUR version of a religious belief.... that goes against the first amendment! Calling people names only shows your immaturity...
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Minister Wilson
Hey Mr. Gray,
Amendment I
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances"
The First Amendment's Establishment Clause prohibits the government from making any law “respecting an establishment of religion.” This clause not only forbids the government from establishing an official religion, but also prohibits government actions that unduly favor one religion over another. It also prohibits the government from unduly preferring religion over "non-religion, or non-religion over religion" (https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/establishment_clause)...
"Separation of Church and State is a phrase that refers to the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. The phrase dates back to the early days of U.S. history, and Thomas Jefferson referred to the First Amendment as creating a “wall of separation” between church and state as the third president of the U.S. The term is also often employed in court cases. For example, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black famously stated in Everson v. Board of Education that “[t]he First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state,” and that “[t]hat wall must be kept high and impregnable.” (https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/separation_of_church_and_state)
Please, stop pretending that your knowledge and understanding of the English language is only intermittent and sematical in efforts to support support your own cognitive distortions...
If not, then what religion is the U.S. goverment based on?
Why did this "religion" not impede the hundreds of years of slavery, the treatment and theft of indeginious people's land, Jim Crow, Segragation, Black Codes, Red-lining, Lynchings, Burning down Black Wall Street...etc...
So, obviously if the goverment was based on the christian religious idealogy it has been completety useless and ineffective from an ethical and moral perspective...
Christians of today are essentially no different than their predecessors because now CRT or gays, or Black Lives matter are the real threats to society, while insurrections, insurgents, and armed white nationlist are all doing "God's work to save the country and take it back, right"...
So, where specifically does the constitution say this is a "christian" nation specifically?
So, please stop pretending like all this is information is new and you are not aware of any of it...if you can...
Minister Wilson
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Daniel Gray
Sorry child but wrong yet again. There is no "establishment" clause in the Constitution. All it says in article 1 is that the Government cannot make a national religion like England did, and it cant pass a law saying that or violating a persons religion...nothing more. It does not stop someone from praying in a school, nor before a government meeting as long as all religions are welcome.
And for it to say what you try and claim it does, then you would have to have a constitutional amendment since it was already passed into law and the very first mention of this myth came a good 15 years AFTER it was passed into law meaning that it would take a constitutional amendment to say what you are trying to claim it does nor does a letter from Jefferson or a decision from 9 people in black robes as article 3 (powers of the Judiciary) does not and never has given the SCOTUS the right to interpret anything. Now if you want to claim they have that right then show us where in the Constitution it specifically gives them that right as the 10th Amendment clearly says unless the Constitution SPECIFICALLY grants the Government a right, then they dont have it and never have had it.
I can quote you chapter and verse of what is actually IN the Constitution, and what you claim ....ISNT.
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Minister Wilson
Hey Mr Grey,
Please provided your references that claim that the Judicial Branch is not responsible for interpreting the Constitutionallity of laws...
You seem to be very ignorant when it comes to this topic, because on one hand your talking about prayer in school, and on the other hand your claiming that the seperation of church and state is a myth....
So, then what religion does the Goverment endorse? Can kids attending public schools be forced to pray?
How is this any different than theorcratic Muslim countries?
You and others that think like you see the new make up of the Supreme Court as a way to force religion into public classrooms...
I provided those sources from Corrnell University where are yours...?
And what does the seperation or church and state have to do with "Don't Say Gay" Copycat Bills Spreading Across America ??
Quit trying to dodge, distract, and avoid with all this nonsense just like CRT which you wont address because these political ploys are just that a political distraction to drum up right wing evangelico / white nationalist to vote for republicans..
So, if it is not CRT, then anti-Mask mandates, if not masks then Gays if you support this garbage then you are no where near as smart as you think you are...
So, ya please quote the "chapter and verse" in the Constitution that claims that the Judiciary Branch does not interpret laws...
You talk like when of those soverign citizen domestic terriosts, look it up,
https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2010/april/sovereigncitizens_041310/domestic-terrorism-the-sovereign-citizen-movement
Because I have provided you what it says if you can refute it then do so but not with your ole hibbly bibbly cra%p....use reputable sources, I ll read it...
Until then,
Minister Wilson
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Daniel Gray
Until you ACTUALLY READ Article 3 of the Constitution and see what it states, then you have no room to talk. At NO TIME does Article 3 give the judiciary ANY authority to "interpret" anything. Now if you think it does then please cite chapter and verse of Article 3 (powers of the judicial branch) showing what you say or imagine it says, I wont hold my breath waiting.
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Minister Wilson
Mr Gray,
So, I guess "they" have foolin us the whole time, eh?
Nice try, but no, you claimed that;
"a decision from 9 people in black robes as article 3 (powers of the Judiciary) does not and never has given the SCOTUS the right to interpret anything"
Then you stated that;
"I can quote you chapter and verse of what is actually IN the Constitution, and what you claim ....ISNT."
I have claimed that;
Article III establishes the judicial branch of government, which is responsible for [ interpreting the laws ]. At the highest level, the judicial branch is led by the U.S. Supreme Court, which today consists of nine justices.
Please, "Quote the "chapter and verse" that my claim is not true...?"
"Reality" right, hey, I heard tinfoil may be going on sale in your area, so you might want to see to that...
Keep Trying,
Minister Wilson
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Ilmenheru Terikson
You need not bother. DG here in the past has said things like there is no such thing as rape because women do not have rights, and other nonsense.
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Thom
The problem with these laws and our Governments at the state and Federal levels is that they are too entwined with religion. There is no place for religion in government. Religion is a personal choice. Something that we are all inclined to choose on our own basis. I quit dating a girl in high school because she told me our kids would be raised Mormon. I told her they had their own minds and they would be allowed to choose. That ended that. Needless to say I was really gay living a life that I didn't really intend to follow. As soon as I could get away from the restrictive, religious, racist, backwards lives, ideals, and ethics of those people I was surrounded by in Indiana the better off I would be. I looked for people who had open minds. Religions who accepted people on the basis that they are human. Not on the basis that they are CHRISTIAN. Christianity is a racist and war like religion which has kept our world in a state of hatred and war. It is time that they realize they are not the only religion on earth and they will not concur all. We are here to be otherwise. I sometimes dream of being taken away by and alien race or even just to die to move on the the dimension of energy that we become after death because I know all this hell like behavior is gone there. Religion has to be removed from government. There is no room for hatred, racism, and the removal of human rights of those who are just as entitled to the rights of other.
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Jean
There is, in the Constitution, supposed to be protection against religious discrimination, and the separation of church and state is supposed to be guaranteed as well. There is a very strong movement in our country right now trying to negate those features of the Constitution; they want to make everyone adhere to "Christian" principles, and to introduce "Christian" principles into every facet of our government. Our vote is our voice. These people must be stopped, unless we are willing to lose what freedom we have. I started to say "not all Christians...", but that reminded me of "not all police officers...", and I realized it would be meaningless. Until the "Christians" who actually follow the teachings of Christ are willing to stand up and stop those who wear the label but behave in very non-Christian ways, all Christians are suspect, or complicit in the destruction of this free nation with the guarantee of religious freedom and the separation of church and state. Complacency equals complicity. Yes, it is that simple.
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Minister Wilson
Jean,
You make a very convincing argument for "not all Christians" being a meaningless sentiment because tacit acceptance is still accepting and supporting what is happening...thus, making them complict as well.
Although people often claim they want to be treated as individuals, an individual tends to find their identity within the group. In other words, a person is unable to assess their uniqueness until attitudes, views, and behaviors are compared with others.
CRT and Sexual orientation bills are an attempt to change history and role back progress for the LGBTQ communities by disregarding the magnitude of effects as it relates to future inclusion...For example, slavery happened hundreds of years ago, so how am I then affected today? Well, I am impacted by the loss of generational inclusion and economic opprotunities from organized social ostracization...
These bills represent a new version of the ongoing culture war against progress and inclusion for all people....
I like what you said because tacit acceptance because of the wide spread assumption that "religion" is a "good thing" disregards situational aspects and the contrary nature of what someone believes to be "following the teachings", who or what decides that?
One cannot claim the Bible's "actual teaching helps" because the literal reading of the book is litered with contray examples of what we know and understand now to be untrue;
The role of women Rules for Slavery Beating children The Golden Rule
The Golden Rule only works if both parties agree on what constitutes well-being, for example boy and girl go up to inspiration point and "he treats her they way he wants to be treated"...Well, this principle only works if she consents to such treament, if not, it is rape, but has his actions violated the Golden Rule principle?
Can any rule really be applicable when assessing the vissitudes of human behavior, since each situation depends on an independent assessment of the contextual factors regarding its conditions...
So, Jean I think you are right, we must fight these attempts to impose any "religious based values" or genralized edicts that ignore an individual's uniqueness, situational context...and the potential for prolonged harm well into the future through "social ostracization"...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Jonathan William Downes
Apparently the author and everyone commenting haven’t read the Bill. It prevents teachers and others from talking about sexual orientation, transgenderism or even heterosexual conversations with Pre Schooler to 3rd Graders! Labeling this Bill as “Don’t Say Gay” was coined too attack the Governor not defend people’s rights. This Bill protects parents rights to not have too have a “sex talk” with their 4 year old or 8 year old. This Bill protects young children just like the “R” or even G-13 ratings on games and movies is intended too do. The fact that teachers and others in the classroom have such little common sense or discretion of what is appropriate conversation with a kindergarten age child that our government has too even write a law like this is even more disturbing! And by the way, all the people who are offended by the law that protects their children should probably get a visit from Child Services if you think talking about sexual orientation with a pre schooler to 3rd grader is okay.
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James
Finally, someone who actually read what the bill is about. And not just going by what they saw on Facebook.
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Minister Wilson
Hello Mr. Downes,
I have a copy of the bill and have read it, and I would like to express a few concerns and problems I noticed in your recent post...
On page 4 through 5, line 97 to 101 of the Florida Legislation it states that;
“Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 [or] in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards.”
There is no mention in the bill about transgenderism [or] heterosexuality, the primary purpose of the bill is to;
“...[prohibit] classroom discussion[s] about sexual orientation or gender identity in certain grade levels or in a specified manner...”
First, are you aware of [or] could you produce a copy of any curriculum [or] lesson plan used by Florida school to teachers that outlines “sex-talk”?
Is just being gay, in your opinion, a matter of sex?
Then how would you describe a Mommy or Daddy to a young child? Does it require information regarding sexual activity [or] sexual intercourse?
While the bill strictly prohibits classroom instruction from occurring between K-3 grade, it also includes a vague caveat;
about the “...manner that is not “age-appropriate” or “developmentally appropriate” for students in accordance with state standards.”
Are you familiar with Florida’s State standards defining what is age [or] developmentally appropriate?
And were these standards established by parental input?
If the standards were established by parents, this bill is redundant and completely unnecessary; if “Florida standards” were not based on parental input, why are you okay with the State imposing its standards without parental consent?
So, just like CRT, a college-level course for law students that is not taught in grade school, no teachers teach K-3 grades about sexual orientation or gender identity. However, it does seem to prevent teachers from answering specific questions about homosexuality, which is most likely the underlying goal of the bill. I understand your comparison with movie ratings; however, children usually attend movies for entertainment purposes and not necessarily to be taught about social intelligence.
How do you know the common sense level of “all” teachers? Common sense is an ironic choice of words because what you seem to be claiming is like-mindedness with yourself and how you view the world when you know that people are different...
Then you claim to justify the state’s actions as if it was completely necessary, so then, was banning CRT necessary as well? Were these state governments justified in banning a subject not taught in grade school? You see my point, right?
Additionally, you do realize that you are in a post about copycat bills spreading into other states like CRT, the Florida bill’s vagueness allows other states and Florida to go well beyond K-3 graders because what are the “state’s standards”?
I and others are offended by these States using children to “gin up” religious and political support for unnecessary, nonsense legislation that is keen on ostracizing other groups of people based on their sexual orientation...
And if you have ever told a child that this is your mommy and that is your daddy, and they are married and love each other, should someone then call child protective services on you?
Please, answer these questions if you want to have a conversation; however, if you wish to perform a “drive-by” post and express some form of political/religious “pearl-clutching,” ,then now, I hope you can better understand why some would strongly disagree with only suface-level considerations...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
What is it about the LBGTQ community that government is afraid of?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
They are smarter than the Christians.
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Rev Mark D
Beats me what they are afraid of. Just can't figure it. Must be something weird like guy's father in the movie "American Beauty." Just primitive. We need to go back to Hellenist Meditteranean, Greece and Rome. What stupid clowns these charismatic clowns are. Homophobic does not explain anything so don't bother with that, what is it really? It's not "fear and hatred." Somebody explain it for real, not the old cliches, if they can. Just a subset of the whole "different" Darwinism? Seems to always come back to that, "different," tribalism, "not Us." So "not us" is replicated in a thousand variations, period, which is my personal theory. Just simple Darwin functions. Anyone who can do better, sing out, but please, you need evidence and some amount of legitimate evidence-supported argument, not just the tired old invectives everyone has.
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Minister Wilson
Hey Rev Mark,
I would be happy to help and explain something , if I can...However, I am not quite sure what your question is, specifically...
So, please, what is it that you would like know for real?
With respect,
Minister Wilson
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Alicia Szot
No one is "afraid" of the LGBTQ community. They just don't feel kindergarten through 8th grade is the place to learn about sexual orientation. Those growing up in families with same sex parents or other relatives will accept them.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Alicia Szot From the first day kids are in school they are taught sexual orientation when they have to use the bathroom. Or do you think boys and girls should use the same restroom until they are in 9th grade?
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Minister Wilson
What about those that dont grow up in families with same sex parents or other relatives?
Was CRT a problem too?
Are there any sexual orientation lesson plans for K-3? if not stop acting like these bills are necessary and harmless...
Minister Wilson
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Jemma Kimberly Whyatt
If it’s about sexual orientation only and not putting ideas in their head then they shouldn’t be hearing about straight marriage or straight relationships either.
If these people believe sexuality is a choice and teachers are warping young minds by talking about their partners then heaven knows how many poor gay children have been twisted into being straight.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Matthew, haven't you noticed that there are a lot of closet queens in high ranking government positions. You know, like Trump and his cronies, for instance. It seems obvious to me.
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Deacon Michael
We are all children of the same universe as created by Him. That includes the LGBT community. Whenever there is any prejudice simply because of their traits or beliefs is not pleasing to Him. Since the beginning of time, the purpose of creation is to instill harmony among every living creatures so that it can become daily spiritual medicine in undertaking critical human matters.
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Lionheart
Who is the Him that you refer to? You seem to make a lot of claims here. Do you have any demonstrable evidence to back them up, or are you just quoting from what you’ve read in some book?
🦁❤️
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Alicia Szot
I don't know about the other states, but in Florida, it's the Parental Rights Bill. It just says that PARENTS have a say in what their kids (ages 5 - 8) learn about sexual identity. There's no need to teach sexual identity to kids that age since they're pretty much asexual. Kids that age accept people for who they are, not what sexual orientation they are. Kids with same sex parents won't be affected by this bill because having two moms or dads will be normal for them, and their friends will just accept these parents.
Florida is NOT making it illegal to say the word "gay" as this misnomer (Don't say gay bill) suggests. The bill is just giving the parents some say in what their kids (again....ages 5 - 8) are learning in school. Kids are kids. My 5 year old grandson accepts the fact that he has lesbian aunts without being told that his aunts are lesbians. In his eyes, that's just the way it is. Sexual learning, especially at these young ages, should come from the PARENTS, not the schools. People freak out if religion is taught in the schools, so why are they so upset when anyone suggests that sexual orientation shouldn't be taught in schools?
If a child of the ages 5 - 8 starts to question their sexual identity, it shouldn't be up to the teachers to explain things to them. It should be the parents! Maybe the parents need more education on these issues so that they better know how to handle these talks with their kids.
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Minister Wilson
Again Mrs Szot,
So, it is apparent that you did not "read anything" I sent you last time about Flordia's bill, right...There is nothing stopping the state from imposing these standards on older kids as well..
Either, you just dont get it, or your intentionally playing ignorant...
Minister Wilson
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Minister Wilson
Hello Members,
This is a shout-out to all those Florida Bill supports making the case a couple of weeks ago about the K-3 graders sexual orientation bill being innocous and neccessary...(do you see any pattern yet, do ya?)
I and several others have told you that these bills are a pretext for white evangelico voters and nothing to do with protecting children...Just like the CRT banning, which no one seems to want to address the erie similarities of this type of garbage legislation...
If this article does not convince them about the political pandering of republicans then they are either too ignorant to understand or they are intetionally playing ignorant or naive as some ploy to hide their religious bigotry...
In either case, this action are intentionally divisive and shows that republicans need a bunch of idealogical religious zealots that have only a suface level of comprehension so they can win...or steal elections
I say lets get the liberal states to ban biblical teaching in public classrooms or any questions or references to pagan rituals such as Easter, Halloween, or Christmas...should be strictlly forbidden...in order to "protect kids"
The Bibles should also be banned from public libraries, since these young children must also be protected from accessing information about mass murder, genocide, bear attacks, incest, misogyny, slavery, human sacrifice, and the killing of children which is all promoted and endorsed by the Bible as well...
It is time to take action,
Minister Wilson
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Minister Wilson
Hey people,
This is precisely the problem with these CRT like bills they are not based on facts just political attempts to otherize and fearmonger...
So all those nay sayers about the Florida now get a first hand example of what we were pointing out as problematic...Because, it is too hard to ignore this blantant example...Even for those faining ignorance...
We as a society may need to take a long hard look at religion taught in "public schools" and ban bibles from public libraries because kids might get a hold off one and read about all the incest, rape, misogyny, slavery endorsement, mass killing ordered by "god" not to mention telling them that they will burn in a lake of fire for not being a christian bigot...
This could cause children extreme discomfort, and therefore must be banned from the public...
Just a thought,
Minister Wilson
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Scot Strong
That's a creative way to pivot from the facts in this case. But of course, you have it exactly backwards. The bill only prevents teachers from indoctrinating young children about such sensitive matters as sexuality. The bill simply recognizes that parents have the primary responsibility for all of character development. Teachers should not engage in such tender topics with innocents. Read the bill for yourself and you'll likely reach a different conclusion than the one you wrote about.
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Minister Wilson
Hey Mr. Strong,
So, please tell me what it is you believe I have exactly backward?
Was CRT, a college-level course for Law students, taught in K-12?
Similarly, were kindergarten and preschool teachers introducing a curriculum or lesson plan to teach sexual orientation to children?
Accordingly,
“The CPALMS standards from the Florida Department of Education show all of the educational standards that public school teachers must meet and follow.
Under the “Health Education” category, [nowhere does it mention anything about sexual orientation or gender identity in those grade levels].
Some of the health-related topics that are taught to students in those age groups include [brushing your teeth and covering your mouth for a cough and sneeze]”.
See indoctrinating means that;
“you teach that person a one-sided view of something and ignore or dismiss opinions that don’t agree with your view.”
So you believe that parents should have the right to condemn homosexuals and socially ostracize their behavior, and ignore treating gay persons as “normal” human people since they are not right with a God?
Because homosexual individuals have a sub-standard character, so even speaking about their unnatural sex orientation negatively affects the child’s mental characteristics and behavior...
First, you are welcome to your own opinion, but not your own alternative facts...
Like CRT, K-3 graders [are not taught about sexual orientation or gender identity], Mr. Strong...
So what parental rights have been violated? And why is this bill even necessary?
Creating an issue out of a non-issue is the new right-wing autocrat tactic since it provides red meat to white evangelical idealogues that believe homosexuality is a character flaw and a direct affront to a god belief...
If you want to believe I am wrong, cool, you are entitled to your opinion...However, if you’re going to prove me wrong, then;
Present evidence that K-3 graders were being taught sexual orientation and gender identity...
Present evidence that K-12 graders were being taught Critical Race Theory...
Please show me where it is the parent’s “primary responsibility ” to raise and develop little religious bigots that don’t treat members of society with equal respect...
So, before anyone goes around clutching their pearls about the delicate nature of young children, please make sure it is based on something rather than a mere make believe thought by right-wing radicals...to drum up votes...
Indoctrination, in this case, is sheer irony...
So, I hope you will at least consider joining us in “banning” all religious teachings and pagan rituals taught in our public school system...Since we must protect our children’s fragile nature and tender young innocence from biblical indoctrination...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Scot Strong
You're obviously passionate about the teaching of CRT and religion. Those are certainly interesting topics and worthy of debate in another forum. This bill, however, only recognizes that character development should remain the primary responsibility of parents -- not school teachers. Parents don't want a teacher introducing matters of sexuality to their kids because that's the parent's job.
Please consider that most parents don't have evil intentions for their children. They just want to raise their own children as they see fit. Let the school focus on teaching the basics (reading, math, etc) since many seem to struggle even doing that part well. Character development is better taught at home.
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Minister Wilson
Mr. Strong,
I appreciate your response...
However, I am not passionate about those topics I am knowledgeable...Yet, it seems that I have not been sucessful in communicating this information in a way that you might better understand...
So, lets try this...
Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity has never been taught in K-3 grade in Florida...
If you conduct a search of the bill "character development" is not language used as the purposes of this bill...
So, how were parental rights being infringed by a subject that was never taught?
Therefore, sexual orientation and gender Identity cannot serve as valid legitimate means for invoking this legislation...
If an officer showed up at your house and cited you for speeding but you did not own a car would you accept it?
So, upon hearing about this, I said to you, well it is important that you respect pedestrians and other motorists becauce speeding is dangerous...Would you accept the ticket then?
This is essentially what your arguing...
So, even though we might both agree that speeding is wrong and dangerous, if you do not own a car, how are you disrespecting pedestrians and infringing on other drivers?
Now CRT, is not a seperate issue, this seems to be a pattern because this was never taught to K-12 graders either...
Do you understand my point now?
So, what is prompting this sudden rash of bills claiming to protect parents from non-existent instruction?
Thus, I strongly [no-pun intended] disagree with your postion...
I think some people have an idealogical predisposition to believe things that are not actually real or have not been shown to exists...
You can change my mind if;
Sexual orientation and gender identity was being taught to K-3 graders in Florida schools
CRT was being taught to K-12 graders in any school across America
Your assuming that this legislation is well intended, and based on the facts and information, it is not....And you also seem to be casting these same "evil intention" dispersions on teachers...when they have not been shown to be undermining parental responsibilities...
As a result, I remain unconvinced...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Scot Strong
Mr. Wilson,
If you were paying any attention to the numerous statements from activist Florida teachers you would have all the "proof" you require to justify the need for this bill. And if you're genuinely unaware of K-12 schools promoting CRT curriculum then you may want to do a few Google searches. This is precisely what led to the parental uprising in Virginia! There are many other examples across our nation. Open your eyes.
None of us will do your homework for you but claiming that school districts aren't promoting these topics is ignorance at its best. And pure deception tactics at its worst.
You seem to enjoy giving lengthy speeches on this forum. But you never really make your case for why parents shouldn't have the right to raise their own children in the way they choose without activist teachers influencing their young children on topics of human sexuality.
In the beginning I had the impression you were interested in an honest exchange of ideas so that you might better understand the bill and why it was signed into law. After reviewing your responses that is clearly not the case. Therefore I see no reason to continue this dialogue.
There is none so blind as he who will not see.
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Minister Wilson
Mr. Strong,
You initiated this “conversation,” stating that; “I was [pivoting] from the facts in this case. [and I] have it exactly [backward]...”
You went on to claim that;
“The bill only prevents teachers from [indoctrinating] young children about such sensitive matters as sexuality. The bill simply recognizes that parents have the primary responsibility for all of character development. Teachers [should not engage] in such tender topics with innocents. Read the bill for yourself and you’ll likely [reach a different conclusion] than the one you wrote about”
I presented the facts;
Teachers are not engaged in teaching sexual orientation and gender identity to K-3 graders...
I cited the West Palm Beach article from the news about the truth of the matter; and the CPALMS standards for education from the Flordia state government...
This clearly showed that sexual orientation and gender identity were not ever being taught to K-3 graders, and there was no mention of adopting these subjects to teach K-3 grade children in the future...
Now you are claiming that;
“...numerous statements from activist Florida teachers you would have all the “proof” you require to justify the need for this bill...”
“..And if you’re genuinely unaware of K-12 schools promoting CRT curriculum then you may want to do a few Google searches. This is precisely what led to the parental uprising in Virginia!”
And then said I am being ignorant for “...claiming that school districts aren’t promoting these topics...”(as if it is true)
Now that we are past the facade of reasonableness, let me give it to you straight...
Your religious bigotry and political ideaology has scared you into believing in things that do not exist...
And, you don’t really believe that all people’s rights should be respected, especially gays...
You are complicit in these non-issue right-wing schemes, and now you are lashing out at me because I broke your false reality bubble...
So;
A person may begin a search using Goggle or Wikipedia, but your information must come from credible sources... “to be considered proof.”
The number of activists Florida teachers is not “proof” of a legislative need... Mainly because those teachers do not set the State’s standards for what is being taught...
In Virginia, parents claiming that their children are being taught college-level courses are diluted and have been manipulated by right-wing white nationalist which capitalized on their anger from losing a “rigged” election...
For example, do you also believe the 2020 election was “stolen” by Facci and the Democrats through the fake Covid-19 virus that has killed millions?
According to your rationale, a quick Goggle search should be enough to provide factual support for this wrongdoing, right, Mr. Strong?
While at the same time, you disregard the 60 plus unsuccessful court cases and subsequent liability lawsuits that would lead a reasonable person to think otherwise...
Your apparent lack of critical thinking skills seems to be clouded by your distorted presuppositions because it is ideologically suitable for you...So, in turn, your attempt to make reality fit these false narratives is the very definition of intellectual dishonesty...
Additionally, no one has ever claimed that parents should not have the right to teach their children...
However, as stated before, how have parental rights been infringed or overlooked by a subject they were never teaching?
The fact that you cannot answer this simple question should tell you something about the weaknesses in your position...yet, you and people that think like you try to fabricate imaginary conditions in an attempt to support such false ideological narratives...
In the future, if you ever contact me again, please make sure that your argument is based on reality and facts, not just ideological spin and right-wing political talking points...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Minister Wilson
Mr. Strong,
You initiated this “conversation,” stating that;
“I was [pivoting] from the facts in this case. [and I] have it exactly [backward]...”
You went on to claim that;
“The bill only prevents teachers from [indoctrinating] young children about such sensitive matters as sexuality. The bill simply recognizes that parents have the primary responsibility for all of character development. Teachers [should not engage] in such tender topics with innocents. Read the bill for yourself and you’ll likely [reach a different conclusion] than the one you wrote about”
I presented the facts;
Teachers are not engaged in teaching sexual orientation and gender identity to K-3 graders...
I cited the West Palm Beach article from the news about the truth of the matter; and the CPALMS standards for education from the Flordia state government...
This clearly showed that sexual orientation and gender identity were not ever being taught, and there was no mention of adopting these subjects to teach K-3 grade children in the future...
Now you are claiming that;
“...numerous statements from activist Florida teachers you would have all the “proof” you require to justify the need for this bill...”
“..And if you’re genuinely unaware of K-12 schools promoting CRT curriculum then you may want to do a few Google searches. This is precisely what led to the parental uprising in Virginia!”
And then said I am being ignorant for “...claiming that school districts aren’t promoting these topics...”
Now that we are past the facade of reasonableness, let me give it to you straight...
Your religious bigotry has blinded you into believing in things that do not exist...
You don’t really believe that all people’s rights should be respected, especially gays...
You are complicit in these non-issue right-wing schemes, and now you are lashing out at me because I broke your false reality bubble...
So;
A person may begin a search using Goggle or Wikipedia, but your information must come from credible sources... “to be considered proof.”
The number of activists Florida teachers is not “proof” of a legislative need... Mainly because those teachers do not set the State’s standards for what is being taught...
In Virginia, parents claiming that their children are being taught college-level courses are diluted and have been manipulated by right-wing white nationalist which capitalized on their anger from losing a “rigged” election...
For example, do you also believe the 2020 election was “stolen” by Facci and the Democrats through the fake Covid-19 virus that has killed millions?
According to your rationale, a quick Goggle search should be enough to provide factual support for this wrongdoing, right, Mr. Strong?
While at the same time, you disregard the 60 plus unsuccessful court cases and subsequent liability lawsuits that would lead a reasonable person to think otherwise...
Your apparent lack of critical thinking skills seems to be clouded by your distorted presuppositions because it is ideologically suitable for you...
So, in turn, your attempt to make reality fit these narratives is the very definition of intellectual dishonesty...
Additionally, no one has ever claimed that parents should not have the right to teach their children...
However, as stated before, how have parental rights been infringed or overlooked by non-existent instruction?
The fact that you cannot answer this simple question should tell you something about the weaknesses in your position...you and people that think like you fabricate imaginary conditions to try and support such false ideological cruel narratives...
In the future, if you ever contact me, please make sure that your argument is based on reality and facts, not just ideological spin and right-wing political talking points...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Hey - hey Wilson, haven't you heard that hay is for horses? Addressing someone with the word "hey" isn't polite, or even very literate. It's almost as bad as Daniel addressing people as child, as if he thought of himself as a parental figure, reprimanding an underling.
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Minister Wilson
Mr. Elfstrom,
Thank you for bring this to my attetion, and I will change my initial greetings based on your feedback...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Minister Wilson
sorry "attention"
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Marnell C Keller
This has nothing to do with being against gay people- this has been the Leftist woke culture's lie since it was introduced. What this law does is prevent a "Woke" teacher from telling a little girl who might pick up a toy car, or a boy who picks up a doll, during play, from being groomed to believe they are transgender. If a child comes from a same sex family- it can be discussed.
Please learn to read for yourselves and not rely on the Left media crap
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James
Exactly that. Infact the word gay is not even in the bill. If people actually read it, they would realize what the bill is about. But they would rather listen to someone on Facebook and CNN
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Cathie Ann Campbell
I am beyond disappointed by the advancement of this lie. The word GAY is not in the bill. This bill is to protect children in preschool through 3rd grade from gender indoctrination and sexualizing children. Sexual health is not taught until after 5th grade. The topics should not be addressed at school, this is for the family to teach. The fact that a bill is even needed to protect children is a sign of how evil the education system has gotten.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Laws like this will never pass as they are unconstitutional. One has to wonder why Christian try to get laws like this passed when God makes one out of every of God's 200 "children" born is gay, lesbian, non-binary or has some other sex abnormality. I hope a Christian can tell us why God would create children with a sex difference for Christians to attack.
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Daniel Gray
sorry no they are not as the part of the constitution you want to claim exists, does not and never has existed. If you dont know what the constitution says then maybe you should not try and speak on it.
Nobody is saying you cant say "gay" the bills are just saying that as a teacher you do NOT have the right to try and tell children about this until they are at grade 5 or higher. You dont like it? dont really care as you dont have the right to try and indoctrinate a child into your beliefs without the permission of the parents.
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Chris
Much as I dislike agreeing with Mr. Gray on something, he is right in that these hate bills are not unconstitutional. His reasoning is flawed, but regardless they are not in opposition to the letter of the law in the Constitution. It applies only to the Federal Government. Each state has its own constitution, thus allowing openings for hate bills and theocratic laws no matter how wrong they are.
I do find it interesting that the party who is instituting such bigotry is made of the same people who force their children into picketing things they don't understand, asking children if they have a boy/girlfriend, claim boys with long hair are "girly", and want to put their own religion into law while claiming anything else is "indoctrination." It's like they are only opposed to teaching children if it's not done in their own manner.
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Minister Wilson
Hey Chris,
You are allright rest assured Mr. Grey is still in error...you are okay....
The Federal Constitution supersedes any of the states Constitutions
Article VI, Paragraph 2 of the U.S. Constitution is commonly referred to as the Supremacy Clause. It establishes that the federal constitution, and federal law generally, take precedence over state laws, and even state constitutions...
Plus, Mr. Grey doesnt believe that the Judicary branch of goverment has the right to interpret laws, so I am still waiting for information showing that from him...
Lastly,
“The governor (DeSantis) said classroom instruction in kindergarten through third grade should not involve issues of sexuality. [In fact, it already does not.]” (Susskind and Papaycik, 2022).
The CPALMS standards from the Florida Department of Education show all of the educational standards that public school teachers must meet and follow.
“Under the “Health Education” category, [nowhere does it mention anything about sexual orientation or gender identity in those grade levels]” (Susskind and Papaycik, 2022).
“Some of the health-related topics that are taught to students in those age groups include [brushing your teeth and covering your mouth for a cough and sneeze]” (Susskind and Papaycik, 2022).
[So, unlike DeSantis said, if you are against the “Parental Rights In Education” bill, it does not necessarily mean you are for sexual instruction because, according to the state’s own standards, those lessons are already not part of the curriculum for kindergarten through third grade] (Susskind and Papaycik, 2022).
Just like the banning of CRT this right-wing ploy to go after after LGBTQ rights because of the current make up of the Supreme Court...
However, sexual orientation and gender identity are not even taught in this age range so all this pearl clutching is an attempt to manipulate ignorant voters and religious bigots to support republicans..
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
When I was still a preteen (before I began to learn the scientific explanations of the origins of everything, including humankind) I was forced to learn a Christian X-Mass carol, that included the line: “don we now our gay appeal” which is now verboten to today’s GOP Christian MAGA’ers.
But my former preteen indoctrination to Christian mythology failed, and I grew into adulthood viewing reality through a background based on science, rather than various primitive superstitious mythologies.
It’s mythological-fact, that the Christian God is gay, because he never married, had a gay Holy Ghost impregnate the Virgin Mary, so he could have a Son, who also never had sex with a female,
It’s not difficult to understand why most gayness takes place in convents and monasteries, but as Groucho Marx famously said “ I’d never belong to either a monetary, or a convent, that would allow a gay Holy Ghost” to become a resident.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Score I reached the age of reason (12) I believed most Christian mythology— except silly poop like the Holy Ghost.
My stereotypical view of Christians was that they were supposed to love everyone — and it’s only since I’ve lived in South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Arizona, and now Oklahoma, that Christians are supposed to only love those in their same tribe (which non Native Americans, call their church).
MAGA-type Christian White Nationalists, call their tribes churches.
And as a member of a tribe (called a church) a Christian is allowed to “hate the gay” “hate Democrat’s” “hate females” “hate science” “hate any news sources not approved by the GOP” and to “hate non tribal members who approve of the use of birth control.
Both tribes and churches require “group think” which means that the chief, or minister thinks for everyone else.
And, if you don’t like it, you can go to where you’ll be tortured throughout all eternity.
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Kevin Joseph Kervick
The word gay is not in the bill. This is complete propaganda from the well-funded LGBTQ lobby. The question is when to introduce sexuality education and what to include. What do we consider normal and what do we consider deviant or abnormal? Is sex reassignment surgery a medical necessity if a gender clinic doctor says it is? Or is it irreparable child abuse? Are we doing psychological harm to our children by treating gender dysphoria with affirmation, or should be do watchful waiting?
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Minister Wilson
Attention,
For members attempting to discuss the don’t say Gay (sexual orientation) bill and its spread across the nation because of right-wing zealots and white evangelical ideologues...
Be aware of two crucial points they always seem to miss;
- The young children’s tender innocence will be corrupted by learning about gay and lesbian terminology, and we need to stop this indoctrination attempt by “the left.”
This is a [furtive fallacy] that is an informal fallacy of emphasis in which outcomes are asserted to have been caused by the hidden misconduct or wrongdoing by decision-makers...
Proof...
“The governor (DeSantis) said classroom instruction in kindergarten through third grade should not involve issues of sexuality. [In fact, it already does not.]” (Susskind and Papaycik, 2022).
The CPALMS standards from the Florida Department of Education show all of the educational standards that public school teachers must meet and follow.
“Under the “Health Education” category, [nowhere does it mention anything about sexual orientation or gender identity in those grade levels]” (Susskind and Papaycik, 2022).
“Some of the health-related topics that are taught to students in those age groups include [brushing your teeth and covering your mouth for a cough and sneeze]” (Susskind and Papaycik, 2022).
[So, unlike DeSantis said, if you are against the “Parental Rights In Education” bill, it does not necessarily mean you are for sexual instruction because, according to the state’s own standards, those lessons are already not part of the curriculum for kindergarten through third grade] (Susskind and Papaycik, 2022).
- There is no mention of Gay in the bill; just read it; the bill is harmless and does not say anything about gays.
This is a Prosecutor’s fallacy – where a low probability of false matches does not mean a low probability of some false match being found...
Argument...
If a bill were passed that claimed no more Christian or Muslim worship could be held, would that law violate the First Amenmanndt and pass Constitutional muster if only the bill didn’t mention religion? Of Course not...
Sexual orientation and gender identity concern homosexuality...so it is implied...
According to the American Psychological Association;
Sexual orientation; “A component of identity that includes a person’s sexual and emotional attraction to another person and the behavior and/or social affiliation that may result from this attraction.”
Gender Identity; “...refers to “a person’s deep-felt, inherent sense of being a girl, woman, or female; a boy, a man, or male; a blend of male or female; [or another] gender” (APA, 2015, p. 862).
Homosexuality is not a result of having a smothering mother, an absent father, or emotional problems. It is not caused by seduction by an older adult (Rind et al., 1998).
It is not caused by parental practices or role models. Most gay men recall that they rejected the typical boy role and boys’ toys and games from an early age, in spite of enormous pressures from their parents and peers to conform to the traditional male role (Bailey and Zucker, 1995).
Conversely, the overwhelming majority of children of gay parents do not become gay, as a learning explanation would predict, although they are more likely than the children of straight parents to be open-minded about homosexuality and gender roles (Bailey et al., 1995; Patterson, 2006).
In other words, parents or teachers cannot prevent kids or cause children to become gay...
There is no indoctrination or character flaw that has been shown to cause homosexuality...
These arguments are weak, intellectually dishonest attempts to frighten parents about [sexual orientation and gender identity], which is not even taught in K-3 grade, like CRT...
So when you hear these types of assertions, understand that that person is ignorant and doesn’t understand the facts...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Cathie Ann Campbell
I am beyond disappointed by the advancement of this lie. The word GAY is not in the bill. This bill is to protect children in preschool through 3rd grade from gender indoctrination and sexualizing children. Sexual health is not taught until after 5th grade. The topics should not be addressed at school, this is for the family to teach. The fact that a bill is even needed to protect children is a sign of how evil the education system has gotten.
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Minister Wilson
Ms. Campbell,
Enough...
Not two posts above yours, I clearly showed that Ron DeSantis and the republicans are not telling you the truth...about this bill...
Sexual orientation and gender indenty have "never" been taught to K-3 graders, ever....
Here in case you missed it;
“The governor (DeSantis) said classroom instruction in kindergarten through third grade should not involve issues of sexuality. [In fact, it already does not.]” (Susskind and Papaycik, 2022).
The CPALMS standards from the Florida Department of Education show all of the educational standards that public school teachers must meet and follow.
“Under the “Health Education” category, [nowhere does it mention anything about sexual orientation or gender identity in those grade levels]” (Susskind and Papaycik, 2022).
“Some of the health-related topics that are taught to students in those age groups include [brushing your teeth and covering your mouth for a cough and sneeze]” (Susskind and Papaycik, 2022).
[So, unlike DeSantis said, if you are against the “Parental Rights In Education” bill, it does not necessarily mean you are for sexual instruction because, according to the state’s own standards,[those lessons are already not part of the curriculum for kindergarten through third grade] (Susskind and Papaycik, 2022).
The fact that the word "Gay" does not appear in the bill does in no way means that the bill is not targeting Gay people...For example, the second amendmant states we have the right to bear arms, well it sure does not say anything about ammunition for arms...it is implied...
Similarly;
Sexual orientation and gender identity concern homosexuality...so it is implied...
So, now you know and have been shown that these bills are nothing more than political pandering, so who should you really be dissapointed with?
The teachers that never taught K-3 graders sexual orientation and gender identity?
Or the republican legislators that are pretending to "protect parents" from subjects that are not even being taught to K-3 graders?
So please, explain to me how is the education system so "evil" when republican lawmakers are just making things up? And how are children being protected from "gender indoctrination and sexualization" when these subjects are not ever taught with this age group of young students?
You don't have to take my word for it here is the link; to CPalms
[https://www.cpalms.org/public/search/Standard]
This clearly shows under the Health Education Standards for each grade level what they are taught, look it up for youself from the source...
I am also beyond disappointement about people that are completely misinformed or underinformed that then go on to say ridiculous talking points because they have not even taken the time to simply look it up, and determine who is not telling the truth...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Steve Pacholuk
Nowhere in the bill does it state, "Don't Say Gay" The media is running against it using words not said.. It's an anti grooming bill that makes it illegal to teach sexual education to primary aged children (4-10 years of age) Not that they cannot hear about it, see it, but that it's not to be a part of the curriculum until 4th grade. Growing up they didn't start teaching us until the 6th grade and we were still too young to take it seriously. We spent every class giggling at the names of body parts.
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Kathryn Darcy Smith
STOP using the term "Don't Say Gay". That is lying liberal propoganda false terminology INVENTED by the radical left.
ULC STOP PROMOTING LIES!
There is NOTHING in the Florida LAW that says that. The law is giving PARENTS THE RIGHTS to teach THEIR children and to prevent the SEXUALIZATION OF CHILDREN K-3rd grade. ANYONE WHO ARGUES AGAINST this is insisting that young children get inappropriate sexual exposure at an age that it is completely unnecessary! This is not "education", this is INDOCTRINATION!
I know what I'm talking about!
I'M TRANS!-
Minister Wilson
Mrs. Smith,
Please, refrain from your irrational right-wing pearl clutching with provably false narratives...
Based on your understanding then, is it okay for teachers to talk about gay and homsexual issues,since gay and homosexualality arent mentioned?
So, if not what are you talking about?
As reported;
[So, unlike DeSantis said, if you are against the “Parental Rights In Education” bill, [it does not necessarily mean] you are for sexual instruction because, according to the state’s own standards,[those lessons are already not part of the curriculum for kindergarten through third grade] (Susskind and Papaycik, 2022).
If Florida teachers were never teaching sexual orientation and gender identity then what is this bill for?
Because the bill does not say "gay" does not mean that it is not about gay or homosexual issues...
The Constitution does not say black people or slavery but it defended those activities using other terms that implied the same thing...
So how are parental rights being infringed by subjects that are not even taught to their children at that grade level...?
Therefore, the alternative position in this debate does not mean or imply that if I or anyone else are against this bill then we are [insisting] that teachers teach those subjects....to young children...because they already dont...
And because you claim to be Trans, does not mean that your not incappable of being incorrect in your mental assessments, as clearly shown...here.
ULC is not reporting or spreading false narratives, you are....
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Stacey Owens
People think that laws we make are designed to protect us but there not, the law of life does. The purpose of laws, constitute life, it's substance. Like humans, we are not to have sex with animals, or living in the ocean trying to breath in water like fish. The law of life does not constitute it. The law of life would not allow you to alter life, or you will surly die.
But laws like murder, adultery, stealing, baring false witness are laws that constitute human action. The action is breaking the law. These laws are design to show a individual what he/she has done wrong them selves. These are the chooses that allow us to see what we have done by our own will.
God gave us a WILL to chose the difference, not religion. This ability allows us to see the likeness of the image of God in us. It gives us dominion, if we chose right.
But if we make laws outside of the natural law of life, we start to have issues that create problem that become unfair. As you can see, religion is used and it don't make sense. But yet we think its right.
Just because we have a education, a family, money, a house, and car we think we have dominion. God blessed use with his abilities to be fruitful. We don't act like gods, we act more like the devil or beast. LGBT want to confuse the world to make us more like them. Whites don't like other races, Blacks and Mexican want to kill and control its race. And Asians are sucking up all the hate and control the world so they can watch us destroy our selves.
We blaming God for what He's not doing and He gave us the power to act stewards and have self control (love) like Him.
God is not the blame. He created people to inform us, but we killed them to shut the up. Like Jesus Christ, but no one believed him. Look through the history of the world, how much blood shed just to silence the people who gave there lives to make a difference.
God has people today, and I'm not talking about religious leader, I'm talking about people who are sacrificing their lives to make a change for mankind. But we're white washing the world with delusion with our opinions. We got to stop picking sides like children and stop pointing fingers.
Why let one group of people have control in killing us all, because of money, race and with nuclear weapons of mass destruction. Cut out the middle man, fear, and become living sacrifices,
(Then fear will be swallowed up).
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Nicholas J Page
For goodness sake who allows these bills to be passed If you can't say gay or whatever.What are people supposed to say Or is it time to stop sex education in schools etc . This is ridiculous
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Rev. Dr. James Jacob Showers Jr
From the founding of the country to our documents through service In God we Trust, So help me God and the like are embedded in every document. When I go to Texas, I can attend a Christian Gay Church. The Boss and subsequently his disciples, stated-'Love one another as I have loved you'. The Biblical Narrative leads us from the dark to the light, through the war torn nations of the east-slowly progressing. Not to a Utopia, but to a better way, a more caring, kinder, gentler world. There are close to 1200 translations of the Holy Bible alone. That doesn't count all of the Apostles Words of Wisdom, the Aquarian Gospels, The Nag Hammadhi Library, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Copper Plates, the Books of Enoch and a whole host of thousands of years of 'lip to ear, feet of the master' conversations. As I was just relaying to a younger person-there is a marked difference between Theology, Theosophy, Religion, Spirituality, the ism's so to speak-dogma is vastly different, but still we all come back to the 'feet of the Masters', and the 'wayshowers of yester year'. Thank you to the sages of old and the initiates of all ages past ,present, and future. We have come a mighty long way-So mote it be!! as the Master Key Society would also relay-'The Lips of Wisdom are closed except to the ears of understanding'. One may think it is jibberish, parables,but when the word lands in good soil-when the seed falls into good soil. So we must 'BE' by example, Yes and I must be by example, even as corrupt as I might be!!..Thank you for letting me share my experience, strength and hope.
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Susan Claire Schloeder
Parents should absolutely have a say in what their children learn. K THRU 3RD graders don't need to be learning about sexuality. Let them be kids If a child has a problem or question, he/ she can talk to the teacher or whoever.
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Krystina S.
And isn't that the point, Susan. "If a child has a problem or question, he/ she can talk to the teacher or whoever" IS EXACTLY WHY "Don't say gay" is HARMFUL. BECAUSE children DO have questions. And teachers or whoever should be able to answer their questions with the best science available. Were you being purposely obtuse? Because that was a great reason WHY those laws are awful!!
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Minister Wilson
Hey Mrs. Schloeder,
"If a child has a problem or question, he/ she can talk to the teacher or whoever."
Nope
No, they cant answer any questions see that is the problem...Unless you actually have a K-3 grade lesson plan for teaching sexual orientation to young children which they dont, this is precisely what thi type of law is supposed to chill, just like CRT...which also is not taught in K-12 grade..
People raising objections like yours seem to always use this false comparison narrative you mentioned...So essentially, a teacher cant discuss or talk about sexual orientation because it takes away the parents say...How?
By the way, what sexuality do you tell your kids that you and your husband are? Or are they to young to know about such things?
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Julie Armstrong
If you properly read the bill it states Teachers can NOT try to influence CHILDREN into being something they are not. I am so tired of the Left & Liberals taking things out of context. I completely believe parents are the ones to have this conversation in young children. Children that young have NO IDEA what all this is about. They want to play. My son wore high heels and make up, this doesn't make him Gay, BI Trans etc. He was coping his MOM. Now he dates females (with Vaginas) It's all personal and teachers and Government need to stay away from this. Do some men rather same sex and visa versa for women? Yes they are out there. GOD created you in his image. You are the way you are because that is the body God and you chose for yourself. In my belief if you choose to mutilate your body then you are going against God and are Atheist. Someone stated something about CRT. That is a Theory not facts not real. If you truly read it you are RACIST and promotion Racism. History is what makes our Country. You can't erase it! The Commandments were given to us from GOD. We are suppose to follow them not rebuild them.
Rev. Jules
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Minister Wilson
Hello Rev Jules,
I am the one mentioning CRT...
And first note a theroy is
"A scientific theory is a structured explanation to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the natural world that often incorporates a scientific hypothesis and scientific laws"
It is apparent by your comments;
"Theory not facts not real"
that you are referring to theory as
"used in describing what is supposed to happen or be possible, usually with the implication that it does not in fact happen"
The core idea is that race is a "social construct", and that racism is not merely the product of individual bias or prejudice, but also something embedded in legal systems and policies.
The basic tenets of critical race theory, or CRT, emerged out of a framework for legal analysis in the late 1970s and early 1980s created by legal scholars Derrick Bell, Kimberlé Crenshaw, and Richard Delgado, among others.
A good example is when, in the 1930s, government officials literally drew lines around areas deemed poor financial risks, often explicitly due to the racial composition of inhabitants. Banks subsequently refused to offer mortgages to Black people in those areas.
Did Red-lining really happen? Is this objectively factual? What do you suppose are the ramifications of those actions by banks?
Weren't Black codes, Segragation, and Jim Crow enforced by police officers? Is this objectively factual? What do you think would be a product of the Black communities relationship with law enforment today?
I better every fourth of July you and your family celebrate the war for independence why? It happed so long ago 1776 what difference does it make today?
So, I think right-wing autocrats and religious zealots are the ones taking things out of context...
No one can influnce someone to be gay...Mrs Armstrong
Did you make a conscious decesion to be straight? Are did you always perfer men? Is there anything someone could do are say that might make you change your mind?
If not, then what are you talking about? You let your son wear high heels werent you worried he might be turned gay? Why not?
So in your mind allowing your son to wear womens clothes is okay but teachers should not use the term lesbian, or gay , when asked question by students because somehow parents rights are infringed???
Did you help create the state standards for appropriateness, if not, why is it okay then for the state to define age or developmental appropriateness without parental consent?
It seems that your religious bias has created some cognitive vulnerabilities in your decision making processes,
For example, can you prove where the ten commandments came from are is it just a "theory" ?
Moreover, you must also believe that there are other Gods too right?
Talking snakes, demons in pigs, slavery is fully supported by the christian bible, and stoning kids or gays to death...is a okay right? Why not? Arent you going against the bible?
History is in books, not record by statues, statues venerate the past...Are you proud of the nation's fight to keep black people enslaved?
Should we make statues of the 9/11 terrorizers so we dont forget?
How about statues of burnt black men women and children lynched you think that would help us remember? The country had no problem sending post cards of murdered blacks to friends or relatives should we start that up again, I mean its 2022 and Congress just recently said lynching is a "federal crime", better late than never I reckon...
How dare you call others rascists when it appears that you dont seem to understand what a "theory" really is, never even read about CRT past right-wing talking points, dont believe rascism exists, and think Civil war statues or monuments are good way for remebering the country's cruel and twisted history...Which, I imagine you would claim is all based on "religious values"...
This is just dissonance ladened and silly...
You should be ashamed of yourself, but nothing I have read so far from you, makes me think you are capable of understanding what that means...
Minister Wilson
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Rev David Drudge
Don't say Gay, it's like saying I can't be my faith. Embrace your Gay, like I embrace my Christian Semite, embrace your Gay or ''Shut up''. Jesus Christ would not ask for your attention.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
You can still cruise the cute boys in class David, and get their phone numbers. Just don't say what it's about until you're speaking with them in private. It's not something that needs to be shouted from rooftops. We don't always have to blurt out everything that's on our minds. It's called being prudent, and practicing self-discipline, which are noble traits, for anyone, regardless of sexual orientation.
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Michael Barton
Has anyone in the comment section read or heard what the bill is about? It's about not having a gay-related curriculum for grades K-3, and it lets Parents know what their kids are being taught; as a "gist" of what it's about.
It's shocking how bad, even this website is. Mention the grades. No teacher should be talking about sex to any kid outside of a sex-ed class (at the appropriate ages).
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John Casillo
How sad......even the rainbow has been stolen.....how gay!.....rev john
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Take a second look, John. It's not the same rainbow.
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Scot Strong
It's a shame that this bill has been hijacked by the radical leftists. If one actually READS the bill all it does is give parents control of how matters of sexuality are communicated to their young children. It's their primary responsibility and they believe it's inappropriate to pass that authority to school teachers who may hold views not shared by those parents. When people stop hyperventilating and just look at the facts then most realize that this bill is simply common sense. Parents should set the agenda on matters of character development.
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Richard Basen
If you read the bill.. it states clearly that IF a child asks questions about anything relating to sex, it's to be reported to the parent, under penalty of termination. Teachers are not allowed to teach anything not approved by his holiness the governor! Everything MUST follow HIS personal beliefs! This bill is the another step in this governor's power quest. Anyone who dares to question him on his decisions is arrested! Does that sound like a government by the people or one of a 'supreme commander"? If you want you child to be taught your version of religion ... send them to a private school!
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Scot Strong
Richard, there is absolutely nothing in the bill about following the beliefs of the governor. Again, it says that teaching this topic should remain the responsibility of parents -- not the school. Let them focus on the basics of reading/writing etc.
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Minister Wilson
Mr Strong,
There is "absolutely nothing" in the Constitution that allows for ammunition for arms, there is "absolutely nothing" in the Constitution about mariage either...
You seem to be defending this legislation by a "semantic parsing of words".....
There were no Florida teachers teaching K-3 graders sexual orientation or gender identity not one thing...
The bill also mentions that age or developmentally appropriate students by "state standards", may be taught these subjects...Therefore, your inference that "...teaching this topic should remain the responsibility of parents..." would not be applicable to older children...
So, if Mr Basen, thinks that the Gov.'s personal religious pandering helped to orchestrate this legislation, you really do not have any basis to say one way, or the other, ...that he is incorrect
Moreover, it should be obvious by now that the Florida bill was not based on any actions or behvaiors from the schools or teachers, since "No K-3 graders were ever taught sexual orientation or gender identity" lessons...(Susskind and Papaycik, 2022).
Therefore, you dont know,
And, if you really believe that kids should be focusing on reading/writing etc... The I would think that you do not support republicans that keep pushing for a moments of silence or prayer, in school, if the fundamental duty is supposed to be education?
You really need to stop characterizing these right-wing religious pieces of legislation as innocuous and necessary Mr Strong, it makes you complicit because you are inteligent enough know better...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Mark Hannon
So much seems to be changing in such a short time. I'm mostly pessimistic about the future and changes like rolling back abortion availability and LGBTQ gains are just the start. I personally know people that would welcome a strict, disciplinarian government that would match with their nationalist and xenophobic tendency.
May the Higher Power and Nature protect us.
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Michael Perritt Reish
We are 2 married gay ministers. God, our creator, does NOT make mistakes! Now, let’s ALL work together and make our world a better place!
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Paul Seldes
surely teaching children hate is not better than dealing with the fact that little Billy has two daddies (or two mommies). The far right wants us to believe that schools will promote the Joy of Gay Sex as opposed to the realities of daily life. Because that is how certain political agendas can inflame and incite a twisted base segment of hate.
Do parents have a say in what is taught in school and how? Sure....that is why we vote for a school board. Educators educate while haters hate.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
The far right is jealous because their religious convictions won't allow them to have gay sex.
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Lady Celynia
I think the adults are sexualizing children by bringing these subjects into the schools. I really feel if one does grammar, literature, math, science and history well, there is no time for anything else.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
School is first and foremost about social interaction and learning about the varied nature's of our species myriad representatives. Not too mention sex plays a very real part in the shaping of our worlds history. The great unions of monarchies happened in bed chambers. And yes it should be taught in elementary school that once upon a time queens had to be watched on stage like live porn stars to understand how degenerate the likes of old king George really were.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Lady Celynia, why in the world would any child want to do good in all those subjects. That would take the fun out of childhood. Don't you think children should have time to play? Ofcourse, I grew up in a middle class neighborhood full of juvenile delinquents, so our idea of fun and games were a little different than studious goodie two shoes. Four of us boys in that neighborhood were so bad we were altar boys. And we had a stack of pornographic magazines when I was eight! I c a bit remember where we stole them from. We sure did like looking at them. Still, even after being exposed to sex at such a young age, I didn't have sex with a girl until I was eleven. However, our teachers never mentioned sex, and those nuns weren't about to tell us that they were lesbians. We didn't even have pedophile priests at the parish where I went to school. A lot of people seem to think that children have to be influenced by adults to be interested in sex. I guess they live sheltered lives, and we're good little boys and girls, unlike the ones who I grew up with.
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Harding Gay Harrison
My flock finds it entertaining but disturbing that a story made up from the Aether to agitate and divide America. We all know, even if all do not publicly acknowledge, there is no such thing as a "Don't say gay" bill. Never has been. Probably there never will be. Such animus about such a deeply personal and intimate subject would be laughable even as a parable or story for debate. But, however, he said, there is no beau ideal for this as it was foist upon us. Instant, unfiltered and perhaps even unwanted communications have seriously damaged our ability to have fulfilling human relationships. I have found that if information is promulgated on the Tic Toc platform, it is not worth the time it would take to watch or listen to.
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Nicholas J Page
Here in the UK back in the 80s Gay meant having a great time now it's used for Gay people,?? The English language and the way of words is getting ridiculous How about using Queer folk or as the late comedian Dick Emery would say in a sketch.Ohh Hello Honky Tonks how are you.Nice to see you.As a camp character.That was funny In fact a good ex Army bloke used to call me honky tonk at the Salvation Army in Guildford feeding the homeless
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Nicholas J Page
I thought all Americans knew the Amendments or is that a myth one person argues with another.The old saying in the UK There's nowt queer as folk All these arguments.is boring.Sorry Brothers and Sisters but it's true So many arguments so little time.Is the American government trying to make everyone the same Robots? Let's move on with different subjects
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Rev. Paige
Hope you don't have children. You apparently don't educate yourself much.
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Nicholas J Page
Actually Rev Paige I do have 2 daughters,1 granddaughter and 1 great nephew who I don't see because my daughter's mother poisoned their minds against me When we divorced and mucked me around on visitation rights and my Great nephew lives in California and I'm terminally ill .But I get regular updates on him and as a Reverend like my self.I find your comments very hurtful and insulting.You should be ashamed of your self Until you know facts here in the UK Keep your mouth shut
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Nicholas J Page
I thought this article was finished .It ought to be now.I have said my piece it's time to move on
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Nicholas J Page
Also Rev Paige I spent 8 years working alongside Ministry of Defense Police Royal military police and working for a large private security company where I have undertaken various security services and been a qualified Medic and Ambulance driver for 16 years.Having grown up in that environment.So that is education a good one at that .
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John Peter Dugan
being gay means your are in a carefree, cheerful or bright mood. its in christmas carols...............
All of these laws and agenda's, aside from a basis in fear and hatred, reflect the very sad level of ignorance of the writers and their supporters. Words like indoctrination and the "gay agenda" are used. As if gay or transgender were infectious. Here's a little real medical science FACT world : sexuality and gender nonconformance are NOT communicable !!! Being homosexual is NOT a choice, it IS an in-born trait. Gay people are born, endowed by their creator gay. Being Transgender is NOT a choice but is an in-born trait. Transgender people are born, endowed by their creator. People are BORN this way just as people are born heterosexual and cisgender. This is known medical science world ... look it up !!! Want to know what the real LGBTQA++ agenda is? Their agenda is simply and plainly to live. That's all, just live, just like you and everybody else. Let me repeat : Gay and Transgender are NOT communicable conditions. Being gay or transgender is NOT a choice. Never has been, never will be. All these laws and the movements behind them are based in ignorance, willful ignorance, and the kind of hatful discrimination that all authoritarian movements throughout history have employed towards their hateful and greedy ends. Who does this woman think she is coming with all this stuff here? you might ask ... Well, allow me to tell you. I've studied in depth, for two decades, the real (and most recent) medical science of sexuality, gender, the human brain, psychiatry, phycology, and anatomy and have a lifetime of experience living with the condition of gender non-conformity that I was born with. I AM transgender. I did NOT choose to be transgender and I can assure you from very personal life experience that had I not been born transgender, my life would most certainly have been a whole lot easier and less complicated. American LGBTQA+++ individuals are OWED the exact same freedoms of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as every other American, and it is high time that the ignorant haters out there accepted this simple reality. (Wow ... this is a lot of pent up stuff that I suppose had to come out sooner or later.)
Well said! You go, girl!!
No one is born gay, that is a scientific medically proven fact, there is nothing that shows a gay gene. Our creator didn't make anyone gay, your parents made you, society and the internet fuels homosexuality like its really good and it's natural but it's not. Do a lot of homosexual male and female drift that way from as early as they can remember, yes that is true, why do they, we don't know. Have millions of early pronounced homosexual teens turned heterosexual later in life, yes. Christ said love thy neighbor as thyself ! Are self pronounced teens subject to bullying and more harm in school, I would believe so just like any other children who sort of don't fit the normal mode. Just do not force a Homosexual way of life upon me or my children. Children do not see color and children do not see homosexuality, they only do when you point it out.
"Have millions of early pronounced homosexual teens turned heterosexual later in life, yes." I'm wondering where you got this statistic from? Just wondering. I've never seen this in any peer-reviewed article. Thanks for the citation.
Please show proof of you 'choosing to be gay' theory. Making a choice means that everyone had to consider what their sexuality is, which means you had to consider the options... When did you choose to be straight? Why do you choose to discriminate against them? Children have shown tendencies towards being gay as well as being straight at very young ages. .. you simply choose to not recognize that. Children grow with a questioning mind... it's normal for them to question everything including feelings and tendencies they have. This law makes that illegal and requires parents to be notified of those questions, if they dont they will be fired! Supporting these laws is saying that simply because you THINK someone is not like you .. you can discriminate against them. Christ condemned that behavior but did NOT mention gays.
You’re an ignorant idiot Daniel.
Have you considered that gay etc may stem from soul memories, good or bad, carried over from past lives?
What a bunch of uneducated blather.