The recent firing of a Christian nurse in England has ignited debate about the role of faith in healthcare. After 15 years on the job, Sarah Kuteh was dismissed from her position for aggressively pushing her Christian faith on patients while prepping them for surgery. Hospital officials say the decision came on the heels of complaints from numerous patients who felt the nurse had overstepped her bounds.
For her part, Kuteh believes that the termination was unfair: "All I had done was to nurse and care for patients. How could it ever be harmful to tell someone about Jesus?"
It's easy to see how she could feel that the lines were a little blurred, as her duties as a nurse involved interviewing pre-operation patients (which included asking some questions about their religion). However, after giving Kuteh two previous warnings, her superiors ran out of patience and dismissed her for gross misconduct.
Kuteh decided to fight the decision.
Fighting Back
Kuteh's lawyer commented on the case, arguing that "a nurse without compassion would be unworthy of the name. On top of performing her immediate duties, a good nurse would try and find words to say to her patient."
For her part, the nurse insists that she only talked about her faith during the specified religious section of the interview: "I don't want it to look like it was a habit. I would not always initiate it, only when I'm prompted in the questionnaire".
But other parties involved paint a very different story.
For example, a spokesperson for the National Health Service described many of Kuteh's interactions with patients as "inappropriate" and that it seems she was clearly trying to "impose her religious beliefs" onto them.
Several patients complained that Kuteh spoke more about religion than the actual procedure they were about to undergo. One cancer patient even alleges that she told him praying would raise his chances of survival.
The case was brought before an independent panel last month. After some deliberation, the decision to fire Kuteh was upheld.
Praying on the Vulnerable
Religion often deals with ideas of death, mortality, and the afterlife. It only makes sense that chaplains and other types of religious representatives can be found on the hospital payroll. But what is the role of religion within a medical institution like a hospital?
Hospital patients are in a uniquely vulnerable position. For those with sincere faith beliefs, having someone to speak with about those issues might be a welcome relief. However, for those who do not share such beliefs, having an unwanted religious experience forced upon them could be incredibly distressing especially if it comes right before an important medical procedure.
The independent panel that upheld Kuteh's dismissal shared this viewpoint, writing: "Many people are not religious and there are many people that object. It is a subject fraught with difficulty and as a consequence people should not express anything about their own beliefs without it first being raised as a question by someone else."
Andrea Williams, chief executive of the Christian Legal Center, was dismayed by the result. She thinks that Kuteh's case is yet another example of modern society discriminating against Christians:
"This religious illiteracy is pushing Christians out of public life and robbing society of the service of many good people like Sarah Kuteh".
Villain or Martyr?
In the aftermath of this saga, Kuteh has emerged as a martyr for those who believe religion absolutely has a place in our lives and in the workplace. From their perspective, she went down fighting for Christian values. Kuteh lost her job for trying to bring Christ into people's lives when they most needed it.
The obvious problem with this idea is that many of her patients did not want to hear about Christ. They wanted information about the procedure they were about to undergo.
Do you think that the nurse's firing was justified? What is your view on religion in hospitals?
94 comments
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china mayhew
yes her firing was justified. i've had similar experiences in american hospitals with nurses trying to convert from my pagan ways before i went under the knife. during one hospital stay i was literally tagged teamed by nurses and techs. a kindly nurse at the desk actually changed my religion on the forms so they would leave me alone. just prior she came in and said i know you're not christian but is their someone i can call for you. she also set it up so that anyone going into my room had to check in at the desk first. i didn't find out my religion had been changed until i went for a follow up procedure and a the women checking me in said so it says here you're presbyterian. i was just like, yeah, why not.
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Florence Xu
They just don't want you to go to hell.
Whether you believe or not, you will go to hell unless you repent. And you will deserve it.
But Jesus Christ loved you enough to die for you, and to save your wretched soul from hell. Instead of being grateful, you get annoyed? Jesus Christ will say I never knew you, and throw you into eternal damnation.
You love Satan, because Satan tells you that you'll be fine, and that hell isn't real. Satan tells you you're great, and that you're a "good" person. But the truth is, you're a sinner, just like everyone else on Earth.
You worship demons. Of course you don't understand the light, it's like talking to a brick wall.
Unless you repent, I tell you, you will burn in hell.
Mark my words, because you will regret this tremendously, while you are in torment, and you ask yourselves, why didn't I listen? Why was I so stubborn? Why was I so prideful?
But it will be much too late.
God bless.
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maya
She should go to the Fiji Islands, plenty religious nuts there . I was a Nurse in Fiji and I am of Hindu belief . The government there ,forces us Hindus to convert to Christianity . A true barbaric place that has no respect for people of other nationalities and backgrounds . I work in America now and no one pushes Christianity on me here . I have total freedom to do whatever I want .
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John Maher
HAVE you EVER had the JEHOVA WITNESSES KNOCKING on your DOOR, RINGING YOUR BELL, INSISTING YOU NEED GOD WITHOUT EVER MEETING YOU MUCH LESS KNOWING YOU, YOU KNOW LIKE POLITICIANS asking for MONEY so THEY can DO NOTHING, I MEAN the POLITICIANs ALL,the POLICE ALL, the GANGSTERs ALL TRY to CONVINCE YOU that YOU NEED THEM, MAYBE SO BUTT if YOU TEND to YOUR OWN LIVEs and THEY TEND to THEIR WORK, LESS the GANGSTERS, I THINK WE as CITIZENs of the GREAT US of A WILL ALWAYs BE THE GREATEST, DUMP the tRUMP !!!
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John Maher
ALRIGHT ALREADY, WE NEED a COMMENT from JOHN BOOGER OWINS so as to get INPUT from the VILLAGE of CLOWN IDIOTS PERSPECTIVE, DUMP the ORANGUtRUMP DOTAR and ALL his VILLAGE CLOWN IDIOTS !!!
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Galin Pheylan
And here we go! The Post is about someone trying to shove their own religious beliefs upon others, captive audience, and now we have someone who is trying to do the same in a reply post to this article. Please learn, Witnessing and Preaching is not the same thing. Let your life be your Witness to others of what your lord has and is doing for you. All Blessings to you. But, if I want to hear preaching, I will go to christianisms meeting places. Learn from your own lord, people went to him to listen to Him, He did not go around to individuals, except certain occasions, maybe; they went to him. Please, please christianisms people, learn this.
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Shannon Hanes
What I personally love about Jesus' dying on the cross for me to give me His kind, loving, gentle invitation, is how - when all is wrong in my life, when I've nowhere else to go, and no one else to turn to, His still, small voice gently invited me, 28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” I can't say no, ya'll <3 There is false religion in the world. I've been enslaved by it. I am the Chief of Sinners. Jesus says, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Ya'll, where is the offense in the God who made us reaching out to us with such loving, gentle kindness? My friends, do not be deceived by the Religious, by the child-molesting priests, who misrepresent Jesus. It was the Religious who killed Jesus, my dear friends! :-) <3 Ya'll, I have sinned similarly, as a well-intentioned, enslaved, proud, deceived, hurting, confused Christian. How can we say no to a God who would give us rest from this hell on earth in which we live now? I cannot and will not say no to that God, and for this nurse to point me to such a rest in my own time of greatest suffering is to offer me a taste of the medicine that will last for eternity. Ya'll, I was deceived for many years of my own life to doubt Jesus' love for me, even as a Christian. Ya'll, I plea with you, consider the still, small voice of my Jesus' invitation; who am I and who is Nurse Kuteh to do you the inconsiderate unkindness of not sharing His love with you? I lived too many years in ignorance of His love for me, and I will not do you such an unkindness, my precious friends, in the name of my Savior and Best Friend - who loves you, too, the same as He loves me, Jesus Christ :-) < <3 Jesus says, “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30)
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starmom41
This obnoxiousness is going on in England, too? I don't know what the laws/rules are there, but it's not o.k. The individual was taking advantage of people in vulnerable positions instead of doing her job.
From my POV, it would have been acceptable if she asked the patients if they wanted her to call a minister/priest/rabbi/etc., for them; or asked them if they wanted her to pray with or for them. But that's the extent of it.
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Margo King
This is an ethical issue. Patient/medical staff boundaries crossed. It is not her job to be a spritual counselor, she can be empathetic as a nurse at best. Invading patients space and not respecting their boundary lines is unprofessional. Jews don't want to hear about Jesus, Christians may be open to that, Muslims will give you a disagreeing discussion on Jesus and Athiest are not interested in any Godheads. It also become wasted time being a messenger to people who don't want to here her message. The hospital is justified in terminating her just on violating the ethics code alone. Breaking the boundary line.
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kindredspirit23
I can only say what works for me. I do not impose myself at all on people. If they open a conversation and seem to want to hear my beliefs or are very upset with their own beliefs, I will talk. I do not preach at them or try to convert them. That is not my place. I feel that has been the church's stance - to push and preach. Doesn't work well with me. if I were a patient in a hospital and was preached at, I would tell the person to stop, then report it. When my father was in the hospital and having problems, the Catholic Sister came and spoke to him. i was there; she was talking about how he should just pray and let himself go to be with God. It appalled me that someone would do any more than just support a person in this time. If Dad was insistent on no help and to allow him to die, that would be different, but to impose this idea on a person who was trying to think things through is very poor. I reported here and requested she not be allowed to see Dad anymore.
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Margo King
Well within your rights as a family. I am suprised that a Catholic Sister nade That statement usually they are trained to listen and support. I would be appalled as well.
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angel
If she is spending more time preaching and less time nursing, then perhaps she should change careers. When you work on a job, your getting paid by that employee, therefore, your time is already bought and paid for. You don't get the right to preach to patients. If they express an interest and ask you to pray with them, fine, but preaching about Jesus doesn't always bring peace and comfort to the patients. They are there to get better, not deal with more headaches!
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Will
I am a gay man, and this happens all the time to me with individuals trying to force their beliefs on me, even when I tell them I have no interest. 1.) I have no interest in religion at all, since I believe it causes more harm than good. 2.) I do not mind if you ask to pray for me, with me, etc, but when I say no thank you, etc, that is the end of it. 3.) I respect those who respect me as well. 4.) People wander why people like me do not accept religion. When you constantly tell us we are going to hell, your message will fall of deaf ears. If at some point, you JUST SAY "I love you" or "I just want to be your friend", and THAT IS IT, than you will more than likely grab my attention at that point, but with some suspicion of course. A person who starts off with condemnation, force, etc are the ones that will be speaking to a wall. The reality for most gay people: if you as a believer that wants to save others, you have to earn the right to be heard. Agree or not, that is the truth. Start off by doing something nice, being polite, and being a friend without a mention of religion at first. I believe your chance of success of converting someone to being a believer will increase, but until that happens, you are the enemy.
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Brother John
great post, Will. Successful conversion would also require avoiding the horrific truth about the Christian god, however. I'm sure Kuteh had the usual salvation nonsense, including the alternative of eternal damnation, to share with her patients. I suppose it's possible that in a near death state, some would find the delusions comforting. Carry on Bravely!
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Margo King
Will, I see your view. Old Heads continue to believe hell is on the other side of death's door if you don't repent. The world is progressing in a new direction. As a minister it is I find it hard to work with people who are ministers that cut people down for non-compatible beliefs or who/what they are. I am a lesbian minister who in my lifetime has experienced and seen it all.
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Rev John
Anyone who, at her age, has an invisible friend needs psychiatric help. Call it religion or not, the underlying problem is if you think you have an all powerful invisible friend who controls your life and tells you directly or indirectly how to behave. She needs help through education. Poor woman was probably indoctrinated since childhood. Religion, like tattoos and body piercing should not be imposed until 18 years old.
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Ben
lol
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John Garza
1 Thes 5:19 Do Not Quench the spirit. God says the Holy Spirit does the work. Not Us, we cannot boast. We evangelize others on Mission with Christ for his will and purpose not ours. Stop tearing this woman down. God has 2 rules, Love God and love others. If your angry with Gods messenger, you are angry with God and not on mission with him. John 15:18,19
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hsw
She was in her workplace. Workplace rules apply. On your own time you can be as aggressive and obnoxious as you please - in the workplace there are consequences for breaking the rules. She was warned and the consequences should come as no surprise.
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Ben
You're right about that.
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Brother John
God set a poor example with it's actions, John Garza. It is best described by Richard Dawkins...... “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion
In case you haven't read much of the Bible, here's why the Christian god is described as above. I encourage you to read the scriptures for yourself, in your own Bible, to confirm that your God does not qualify as benevolent, kind or forgiving. Notice that God's hitman, Moses, had a hand in much of the carnage. Why anyone would want such a monster to exist is beyond me. Thankfully is all myth and belief, not reality.
http://www.holysmoke.org/hs00/killer2.html
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healthiestdietpossible
When a nurse is getting complaints from patients he or she needs to change the behavior if she wants to keep her job. This applies whether the behavior is pushing religion or anything else. Media is blowing this up into something it's not. But sounds like the nurse wasn't doing the job she was paid to do. She was doing a different one. So I would have fired her. If that's harsh - sorry. We can't get all soft on someone just because they were doing "God's work" Whether something is "God's work" is God's own decision. Not ours.
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Len Rudnick
"Pushing" anything, while protected by the First Amendment, is at best, selfish. Other examples of "pushing" bring to mind Hitler and Stalin, to name just two. While I strongly support freedom of religion and freedom of speech, I also respect that others have the right to react to what she has done,or more accurately, how she has done it. In physics, it is called, "for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction. She certainly should have known there would be a reaction. Now that there is, she should accept this as a natural occurrence. If she believes so strongly, she should know that things happen for a reason.
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hsw
Jim your last sentence made me chuckle. It brought back a memory of sitting next to a gentleman on a long flight who started a conversation about faith. I shared my belief that all religions come from the same place and basically have the same tenets when you get to the heart of things. He gave me a horrified look and didn't speak to me for the rest of the flight. I'm pretty sure that was a good thing.
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Jim D.
Let me get this straight. Patients complained, and the hospital warned her. Patients complained again, and the hospital issued a second warning. Patients complained again, and the hospital fired her. I'm sure there are other Christian nurses working there. Were there any complaints against them? No? Case dismissed. Well, that was easy. And to any of you that think the nurse was unfairly treated, you are the people I dread having to sit next to on a long flight!
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Aileen
Hospital employees should not talk to patients about religion unless the patient asks. The better practice would be to ask,the patient if she/he wants to talk with a chaplain. I am personally profoundly offended when someone tries to get me to listen to their proselytising or to pray with them. I find Protestant Christians to be the worst offenders.
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Lin Amendt
Butt out of other folks' lives.
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Sandra
The patient on that hospital who talked so bad about that nurse was under Satans influence. I belive she did the right thing beacuse there is a heaven and there is a hell and Jesus is the thing. Hospital did wrong to take her away. God is the Almighty!
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Brother John
Here, in real world, there is no Satan, no heaven or hell, no biblical God and no Jesus, Sandra. These are all ancient myths that many, yourself included, choose to believe without evidence. Believe what you like, but do not present beliefs as facts. There are many "non-believers" on this forum who do not share your beliefs.
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Bro. James the Apostate, OSHSF
I've heard it said, "Reality is what's left when you stop believing."
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Marilyn Francis
PRAISE THE LORD THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE LIKE HER. AMEN
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Missy B
We dont need more disrespectful people who believe in some unproven entity
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Anita Ganser
If she is acting as a nurse the expectations of the job is in the employee handbook as well as in the job description. If the interview portion of the asks about the pt's religious preferences, she should ask that question and move on. If the pt seems in distress you can always offer to pray with them or for them but that is it. Follow the patient's lead don't push them your direction. People have the right to believe or to not believe.
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Charles Done
It is such a shame to our global well being that religion is the cause of such hatred. With the problems we all face with family, health and financial well being. is it so wrong to try and make others feel comfortable with our beliefs of eternity. Living in an area of mixed beliefs of Muslim, Jewish and Christians I feel blessed that our community lives in harmony for the most part. We have criminal acts but so far, personal religious beliefs are not looked upon with hatred. I feel our mission here on earth is to help others get to heaven. If Sarah Kuteh was doing that then she should be commended for great works of health, both medical and spiritual. Please pray for her and may we all be able to stand against the hated of our religious convictions.
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Missy B
She was a hateful bitch who only cared about her own agenda here.
She was warned not once but TWICE to stop harrassing people about her child raping religion so you can drop your pathetic victim mentality
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hungrymindsi
When doing any type of counseling or care, the idea is to ask and listen more than talk, to ease the person's mind and heart, and to help them reflect in a way that works for the person, not for the caretaker. To impose aggressive proselytizing on anyone -- let alone a sick patient in a hospital -- is not only disrespectful of the individual's rights, but is also cruel and inhumane. The firing was absolutely right.
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Ben
Stand as an example of Christ and that is the greatest testimony to your faith. He made himself available to those who chose to see him. He didn't push himself on anybody. The harder someone pushes their beliefs on someone else, the less it becomes a selfless act and the more it becomes a selfish act.
Obviously she takes pride in being pushed away for her faith but what did she do for those she sought to enlighten?
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ginacannone
Everyone should be thoughtful and aware of the fine line of pushing beliefs and sharing the word...In a Hospital, Clergy are present and ALWAYS ASK first if you would like a prayer...This is the proper way, since so many people have different beliefs and perspectives. Spread the word but, DO NOT BE PUSHY...
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Jack Lam
This is what our country has become.when you let nonbelievers into gov.this is what you get.all the negatives of the bible.what happened to the grandmothers that took us kids to church to learn the gospel. God will send his angels to destroy like in the past.amen.you need to be scared,my God humans are worse now than in the past.im just glad that I'm of age and soon will be going to God at the right of jesus.amen.
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hsw
You might want to read the article again - this wasn't in the United States.
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Ben
Relax and take a breath brother.
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Missy B
Your Jesus is a homicidal maniac and there is no heaven for religious pedophile supporter just like his followers.
Maybe the nurse should be praying for religious leaders to stop raping children instead of being a twisted bitch and condonibg it.
Christianity is just another pedophile ring that comes under the umbrella of religion so turn your clocks forward 2000 years and stop pretending to be holy!!!
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Brother John
You might find this site of interest, Missy. This represents only one church in one country.
http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbylastName-A.html
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John Maher
I did NOT ASK so do NOT TELL, LET ME FIND MY GOD and DIE in PAZ..................
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Swan
This is certainly a story about proselytism in spite of existing beliefs, even predatory for "God's work," as if such people think, "I will change your mind and your heart" though I'm sure a few replace "I" in that thought and feeling with "God."
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pastorrichard13
I am curious if a Muslim nurse would have been fired under the same circumstances.
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hsw
How would that be relevant to this discussion?
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John Maher
PUT THAT in YER PIPE PASTOR DICK 13
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pastorrichard13
Keep your name calling to yourself John, it's obvious you can't keep up in a conversation without it. Snowflakes Geeze!
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John Maher
PASTORDICK13, I may not KEEP up in conversation but U surely do not have the ability to READ and UNDERSTAND your own WORDs or THINKING,
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pastorrichard13
Look at the way the world is going in regards to Christian V Muslim tolerance that how it pertains.
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hsw
Which has absolutely nothing to do with what's being discussed here. Stop trying to hijack the thread. Your islamaphobia is as unwanted as the nurse's prosthelytizing.
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John Maher
HSW, UR RIGHT as the FALLEN SNOWFLAKE, PASTORDICK13 his FLOCK must be CHRISTIAN SOLDIERs MARCHING OFF to WAR !!!
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Pastor Pete
Yes pastor Richard, exactly the same. The NHS has a very strict non-discriminatory structure.
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Minister Norman
One things for certain, ganging up on someone who poses a question (whether apropos to the "Thread" or not), and then descending into name calling & shaming, isn't a very intelligent, helpful, or even mature response to anyone's comments!
How is that "Relevant" to any civilized discussion?!
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Roy L. Patterson
My bet a Muslim Nurse would never have fired. Muslims get away with things that if Christians did them, they would be called Racist, not Muslims. Christianity can't taught in our schools, but Islam can.
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Bro. James the Apostate, OSHSF
This is not a Muslim issue, and your sad hypothetical is a complete logical fallacy, not to mention, a lame attempt to spread your (apparent) xenophobic propaganda, which is representative of a larger mass-delusion. I could be wrong, and you might not be a bigot, I know nothing about you. However, your statement is filled with dog whistles and innuendos. Apparently, you identify with the "persecution" faction, while confusing criticism with persecution.
Apparently, the defense organization is capitalizing on such a publicity stunt. This is not persecution, and people aren't singling out "Christians™" to persecute. Her actions brought this criticism upon herself. This is the consequence of certain actions, and apparently not a single incident, but rather the results of an accumulation of several unprofessional behavioral conflicts. She was never singled out for her "faith". She has the right to believe whatever she chooses. However, her rights end where the rights of anyone else begin - including coworkers, patients, and whoever might be in the immediate vicinity of her in any employment environment.
I don't know about you, but I've never experienced Muslims knocking on my door to introduce me to Mohamed - and I've lived in West Dearborn surrounded by Muslim neighbors! Ironically, I don't see them praying over people in hospitals - unless invited - either. From one perspective, Muslims are more respectful of others' personal relationships with their personal understandings and god(s) of choice, and not prone to evangelical forms of proselytizing.
Yet, I was forced to hang a sign on my front door to stop the incessant barrage of Fundamentalists interrupting my life by knocking on my door. (Religion - specifically Christian Fundamentalism - is the primary economy in West Michigan.)
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Galin Pheylan
Yes, to J Coop Klamer
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hsw
Congratulations pastorrichard. Your hijacking has been successful. Minister Norman I agree about the name-calling but the comment was a blatant off-topic attempt to hijack the thread, which has now succeeded.
As for Roy Patterson, I'm going to assume you're American. Islam is only taught in public schools in the context of world religions, which is an essential topic in teaching the history and culture of other countries.
Also for what it's worth, the incident being discussed did not happen in the US, so whatever you believe is happening here is unrelated to the OT of this thread.
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Shaune
I am more curious about how the people defending her actions would feel if a nurse of a non-Christian religion started pushing her beliefs on Christian patients.
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hsw
I've always said "show me don't tell me." Also not a Christian but I can respect anyone who genuinely walks the walk.
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Pastor Pete
Absolutely disgraceful behaviour from this woman. How dare she push her beliefs on sick people, I have a dear friend who is a hospital chaplain, great man, one day he was doing the rounds, being a friend mostly, enormous warm Welshman that he is, and happened to have some young born-again types with him, whereas Mike is more laid-back Church of England, and just before they went into the intensive care unit, he turned to them and said " Now lads, you're not going to go on about this Jesus business are you?" That's what I call a priest, he demonstrates the love of Christ by loving example, not proselytising. Speaking as a non-Christian, he's the only person I know personally who walks the walk if you know what I mean...
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Brother John
Kuteh asks, "How could it ever be harmful to tell someone about Jesus?”
When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called a Religion. Robert Pirsig
Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence. Richard Dawkins
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions." -- Frater Ravus
"'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'" -- Douglas Adams
"Without God, life is everything." -- Rev. Ron
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -- Stephen Henry Roberts
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw
"Gullibility and credulity are considered undesireable qualities in every department of human life -- except religion ... Why are we praised by godly men for surrendering our 'godly gift' of reason when we cross their mental thresholds?" -- Christopher Hitchens
"Religion is an illusion and it derives its strength from its readiness to fit in with our instinctual wishful impulses." -- Sigmund Freud
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived." -- Isaac Asimov
"As to the book called the Bible, it is blasphemy to call it the word of God. It is a book of lies and contradictions, and a history of bad times and bad men. There are but a few good characters in the whole book." -- Thomas Paine
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Bro. James the Apostate, OSHSF
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful." - Seneca (ca. 4 BC –AD 65)
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John Maher
DITTO THRICE..............................
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Lynne
Cogito, ergo deus non est. I think, therefor god is not.
The buybull is for delusional sheeple.
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Bro. James the Apostate, OSHSF
Definitely, Villain and dangerous! Sounds like someone just wants a fight! Buh-bye!
Sarah Kuteh is delusional, and her hyper-religiosity does not belong in a secular society or professional healthcare environment. The incidents which landed her without a job have nothing to do with her - period. If she had acted within the confines of her job description and left religion at home, she would not find herself the target of public criticism.
These patients were the victims of her unsolicited religious advances - "religious harassment"/"religious abuse". Apparently, in her best perception of what might be good for others, or what she wanted for them ("salvation", "Utopi-ternity", etc.), she is unable to control her actions and her impulsive desire to force her thoughts and beliefs on others - in their most vulnerable state and positions.
Having spent most of my life both in active ministry and retired from medical administration for the largest healthcare system on the planet (VA), from my humble perspective, she definitely is not the victim here and she needs to either (1) find a more fulfilling and suitable career elsewhere, or (2) abide by professional standards and ethics.
The way to live an active witness of a pious life is to walk humbly with your god, seek justice and do good for others; and then, when someone asks for it, you have permission to share your experience.
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Jess Martin
You are being paid to do a job. Proselytize on your own time. If you feel such a strong calling go into the ministry.
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Minister Norman
As my Mom lay dying of cancer, with extreme respiratory distress, both a Respiratory Therapist Nurse and a "Spiritual Councilor" kept coming by and pushing "Christ's Redemption"!
I walked them outside and said, "First, you've as good as told her, she has no chance of survival, and I believe that's God's realm not yours, second she has strong, but extremely personal/private Religous beliefs of her own, so she doesn't need yours, and third, if you don't stop this, I'll report you to your Superiors!"
The Nurse (who seemed well connected to the Councilor), looked concerned and apologized. The Councilor on the other hand, was just unrelenting, and said, "I'm just doing God's work". I said, "Do it someplace else", and returned to my Mom's room.
They stayed outside talking up a storm.
Later, that same Councilor reappeared and started up again. My Mom just looked totally stressed out, so I said, "Leave or I'll bodily remove you!" She almost ran out of the door. Mom smiled at me. Later that Respiratory Therapist would not give my Mom another Treatment, when she was in extreme distress to unconsciousness, stating, "She only gets one of these treatments three times a day. Her next one's not for several hours".
I said, as my Mom's numbers were crashing (on the Respiratory Monitor), "Are you waiting for zero? Give her the goddamn treatment or I'll get the Doctor, and then I'll come after your licence!"
She gave my Mom the treatment and Mom's respiratory numbers climbed.
I requested and got a different Respiratory Therapist after that; who was very cool, and gave treatments as needed to ease my Mom's discomfort, and then dying distress.
Mom died with family all around her (after we asked all staff to leave), and with us holding her hands, loving her, and praying quietly with her.
Religion, Prayer, and Dying are all very personal/private things. Too many seek to intrude beyond their real interest, or JOBS, in all of these areas.
My Mom considered herself a "Humble Christian", but always taught us, "It's a very personal/private thing between you, and God, if that's your path", and warned us (as the Bible does) to pray in private, unlike the hypocrites!
Mom's Christian LOVE extended to sharing her beliefs, if asked, but also to all of us in the family finding our own way, and she was open and accepting of everyone's "Personal Conviction and beliefs". Today, I embrace Jesus as a great loving Master, and Lao-tzu likewise, and hold Tao as my personal path.
Mom was very open and accepting of my beliefs, and also those of an Atheist Brother, equally, and likewise, because of her teaching, we are now ultimately accepting of each other.
Mom use to say, "Religion forced on people is dead and pointless! I don't get it; all that does is push people away and alienate them!"
My beautiful Mom taught me that, and she lives on in my heart & in the legacy of Love and tolerance she gave us, taught us and others, and left behind as a legacy.
Her funeral was well attended, and my entire family each spoke about and for her, and from each of our very unique perspectives! Mom would have loved that! I will love you forever Mom!
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Galin Pheylan
This is beautiful !
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Minister Norman
Thank you shiningwolf9!
And yes, she was!
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Jim D.
Thank you for sharing such a personal piece of your life. Your mother sounds like she was an awesome lady and a force with which to be reckoned. I'm sure I would have liked her very much.
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Missy B
I hope your mum is restinh peacefully ?
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Minister Norman
Jim, and Missy B, thank you both for your comments!
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Mamie Lightford
Amen!!!! Beautiful and as it should be! But you had more patience then me I would have sent them literally flying out the door!
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John
It sounds like the nurse was being over zealous and insensitive. But there are some patients that the mere mention of religion is offensive so there's that to keep in mind.
As a former hospital chaplain it was always crucial to be sensitive to the patient and their needs. I always asked if it was ok to pray for them etc.. In some cases the family asked for prayers. It was always kept short as to allow them (patient/family) to be alone with one another.
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John C.
Very well said. As a chaplain in training that is pretty much what I am learning.
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Marcel French
It is never ok for anyone to force their beliefs on others.
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rabbi jim
Shame shame shame! No one should ever push religion on anyone. Faith and religion is an individual thing. I would never do that myself. Just offer to pray for their recovery and leave it at that. Love to all
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hsw
Religious counseling should be available to those who request it. For those who don't desire it, its intrusive and stressful at a time when they need to relax and focus on healing. If religion was forced on me in such a setting, I would ask that they be removed by any means necessary.
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Zeke Hanzl
The mission of the nurse is to care for her/his patient keeping in mind the first principle of the Hippocratic Oath. One wonders how the Buddhist, the Moslem, the Hindu, or the atheist would respond to her proselytizing.
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Lynne
As an atheist I would have told her to shut the f**k up and keep her buybull bullshit to herself. If she wants to praise jebus she can go to her church with the rest of the sheeple.
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Ben
lol
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Guairdean
Asking is OK, but pushing isn't. Many years ago my mother went in for surgery and a local preacher came into her room during the preparations. My mother and father wanted time together before she was taken to the operating room, but all the preacher wanted to do was pray and proselytize. I tried to quietly explain that his actions were intrusive, but my words fell on deaf ears. He finally listened when I whispered that I was about to remove him by whatever force was necessary. If a patient seeks comfort through prayer, then a compassionate healthcare worker would be justified in praying with the patient. Seeking conversions under those conditions is wholly unacceptable. There is a time for every purpose under Heaven, but that time is no meant for that purpose. Her firing was justified.
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Barney McComas
Amen!
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Kathy Henshaw
Absolutely. I don't think this is what Jesus would do. You are not being kind or a true Christian when you try to impose your beliefs on someone who is in such a vulnerable state
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Ben
exactly! asking is fine but she was being pushy and that's not cool. england is a progressive country and unlike the bible belt in the u.s. doesn't tolerate people being pushy with their evangelical christian leanings ..... and understandably so.
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Larry Martin
Religion is a personal choice.. Either you want it or you don't. If she would have asked her patients for their permission before starting her "sermon" then she could have been justified. Unfortunately she is like to many others who believe that everyone is a target for her way of thinking. She was warned and didn't heed. Her firing was justified.
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John Maher
IF anywhere in this WORLD U can use SOME GOD I would put the HOSPITAL on the TOP of the LIST,ALTHOUGH if it is NOT the POLICY of SAME best NOT to INTERVENE,MANY,MANY PERSONS are NOT on the PATH of FAITH, GOOD LUCK, GOD SPEED......
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Lynn Gideon
She did what she was supposed to do. She was obedient to her Father and didn't bow to the offense, but instead she bowed to God the Father. She will reap the harvest of her obedience. Bless you in the name of Jesus Kuteh!
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Missy B
Pity the religious didnt pray for religious leaders to stop molesting children instead of being twisted and condoning it.
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Ben
well said and true.
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angel
Well then, hopefully God will pay her bills for the next several months.
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Yes, I've had a similar experience. In my case, it was not from the nurses but "volunteers". My doctor had to put his foot down, restrict visitors to my own "visitors list", because I needed my rest while recovering from surgery - not to stay awake debating religion.
My religion got changed from "none" to "Christian" to "Baptist" during that hospital stay. When I returned to have them treat a hospital-acquired infection, I put "atheist" for religion, in front of a witness, and explained changing it is illegal - as a hospital record, including intake form, is a legal document.
I don't want to be a "militant atheist", but when any other option compromises the medical care I am there to get, it's the only thing left.
Recently, in these COVID-days, a nurse in a cardiology clinic told a cardiology patient he didn't need a mask if he'd "trust Jesus". That is hazardous to health, especially to cardiology patients who are likely at elevated risk if they catch COVID.