A strange story exploded across the internet last week, provoking headlines that one might expect to find in a 1918 publication but not one from 2018.
"Christian Missionary Killed by Uncontacted Indigenous Tribe"
It all started when a man named John Chau, inspired by his faith, decided to make contact with an isolated indigenous tribe on a small island in the Indian Ocean. Chau was convinced it was his duty to preach the Gospel to these people. In doing so, Chau knowingly violated India's laws against traveling there. Unfortunately, he paid the ultimate price for embarking on this treacherous trip.
A Dark History
According to experts, the Sentinelese people have lived on North Sentinel Island for at least 50,000 years. But after centuries of independent, self-sufficient living, they were eventually contacted by the outside world with devastating results. Having zero immunity to foreign pathogens, many died from diseases their bodies were unequipped to ward off. A small portion of the tribe survived, isolating themselves completely from the outside would to avoid coming in contact with further disease.
Jesus' Love Not Enough
Given this history, when Chau arrived on the island he was immediately viewed as a threat. He reportedly made several attempts to approach the tribe, but each time was driven off by their arrows. Chau's diary, discovered following his death, describes these harrowing encounters. Chau explains how he attempted to offer the tribespeople fish as a gift, and yelled out to them "My name is John, I love you and Jesus loves you." It was the last entry he would write.
His final attempt to contact the tribe proved to be fatal, as Chau was killed in a hail of Sentinelese arrows.
Recovering the Body a "Futile" Task
Authorities are now struggling with how to recover Chau's body from the island. They reportedly have an idea where it might be located on the island, but aren't sure how to go about retrieving the remains. With the Sentinelese people still on high alert, any such efforts could provoke further violence.
Meanwhile, some critics argue that authorities are overstepping their bounds and that Chau's body should simply be left where it lies. The risks of spreading disease to the locals are too great, they insist. Why risk more lives when Chau clearly understood the perils of exploring this remote area of the world?
Should the Tribe Face Charges?
Chau's body is not the only ongoing concern. While the majority of the public appears to have sided with the native tribe in this encounter, some faith groups believe that the Sentinelese people should face murder charges.
The calls for justice have been led by International Christian Concern (ICC), a group that focuses on fighting Christian persecution around the world. Following Chau's death, ICC published a statement calling it a "murder," noting the incident "comes at a time when Indian Christians report ever escalating levels of persecution across the country" and calling on the Indian government to take action. "A full investigation must be launched in this murder and those responsible must be brought to justice," the group said in its statement.
But critics say that is nonsense. How can you realistically prosecute people who have no contact with the developed world and no understanding of its laws? Plus, the tribe's defenders point out, religious persecution had nothing to do with Chau's death. The Sentinelese people don't speak English - and in all likelihood, don't even know who Jesus is. They were just protecting their land from outsiders whose diseases pose a threat to their existence.
I feel he did what he was born to do! With his body remaing on that island, a piece of Jesus will always remain with the people there when they are ready they will come out from their seclusion but for now Jesus remains with them just as Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross!
Um, he almost MURDERED the entire tribe by infecting them with pathogens they have no resistance to. You really think that Jesus - if he existed - was for the extermination of an entire culture because of one idiot's ignorance? If so, you need to crack that Bible open more often!
An excellent point, Don, and perhaps the MOST important one! The tribes' collective memory, passed down from generation to generation, has no doubt vivid recollections of the death and destruction brought by contact with foreigners. And they are absolutely right. Had Chau actually gotten close enough to interact with the natives, his mere presence could have resulted in the destruction of what little remains of the entire tribe. He put his "mission" before the welfare of the very people he was intended to "help". Could he truly not have known the tragic consequences of his intended actions to the tribe? Did he think somehow God/Jesus would miraculously inoculate from the pathogens he carried, or was he too focused on his potential/probable martyrdom to worry about that? One thing that has been abundantly clear in my life: God/Jesus/Allah/Whomever doesn't stop people from making stupid mistakes, and surely doesn't stop people from murdering others. Fortunately, in this case, the Sentinelese people may have. This was not murder - it was a very real self-defense.
Be careful Don. You are going to confuse him with common sense and logic.
If he existed ?? Of course he does, this man will be wrapped in God's love and be praised for doing his work, sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ, well done my faithful servant.
Well rex why don't you go
I think it may be unwise to mock courage and conviction.
Wow, you’ll be saying next that your megalomaniacal capricious god was justified in his infanticide, and also his genocide of mankind.
I wonder if those he killed are wrapped in the arms of his love, especially those first born little infants he killed because of his uncontrollable anger towards one man.
Don, “murder” is a legal term that more than likely does not apply in this case. It would be more accurate to use the word “kill”. In that sense, I agree with you.
Correct. Murder is s legal conclusion to be decided by a judge or jury.
Not necessarily. Murder is defined as killing for no reason, such as for food or defense. When killing to eat or to defend oneself from death, killing is then justified. Neither a judge nor jury can define murder. However, they convict based on their belief of what took place. In either case, this tribe defended themselves from what they thought would be death.
What inconceivable logic. A judge nor jury can define murder. Hhhhhmmmm. Just go out and kill anyone for no reason. Sounds like you've been influenced by BLACK PANTHERS, BLM & ANTIFA logic. A complete terrorist. In this sense these people want to be left alone so leave them alone. In their tribal sense of law they were defending themselves. Leave them alone. Many cases occurred in American history executing American Indians for killing American settlers. Their cultures saw settlers simply as invaders. Tribal groups have every right to defend their cultures from foreign ideas regardless of religious missionaries. I wish Christians would back off and respect cultures that don't want to change. Tribal peoples have their own systems of laws and it works within the Civil law . In this case, leave these people alone. A society must have law . Each society does have it even in a simpler form.
Killing always has a motive. Meditated or premeditated. Learn some law. It is 1st, 2nd, or 3rd degree. It is always intentional or unintentional. That is why we have law to determine with the facts of each case presented.
You say:' this tribe defended themselves from what they thought would be death.' Are you sure? Did 'they' tell you that? This is your personal opinion, because you absolutely cannot know what their motive was. In this day and age, meeting an unknown person, knowing nothing about him, knowing nothing about his intensions and then killing him cold blooded on sight. just isn't exceptable. Bringing a little bit of civilization to this people would not be so bad. What if they decided to made a 'crusade' to your regions and started killing people? Do we have to allow that also because of their 'ignorance'? These people are simply still 'Wild'. Is it really necessary to let these people live there lives in this way? Sounds to me more like a museum attraction.
It is a sociological fact that bringing civilization to any primitive society eventually breaks down their culture bit by bit, even it is just a a little introduction. Leave them alone. Learn from American history and how we destroyed the American Indians. Apply it to this case even in a foreign situation. Why do stupud Christians have to go into a primitive culture and put clothes on naked people. Leave them alone. In this sense disregard the command Jesus gave to spread the word . These people have turned their backs to the message so leave them alone. Why can't stupid people learn from past history in any country. Industrial and technological society does destroy primitive societies. Even just alittle bit. They don't need glass beads and pots & pans. Leave them alone. As a Christian missionary I say that.
I agree completely. These people ask nothing more than to be left alone. Forcing our beliefs on others is a sin in its own right.
To go and preach is not "forcing" one's religion on another. However, after being thrown arrows the first time, Jesus said to shake the dust from your feet and move to the next town (or island...haha).
Agreed. No one deserves to be murdered, but that is what this "servant" was about to do 150 times over. If you want to minister like Jesus, use your brains like He did.
His actions could have been seen as genocide. Those people had a fundamental right to save themselves from certain death.
It is sad that he lost his life but he chose to ignore the law banning anyone going to this island and he persisted in trying to contact them when they had given him enough warnings.Besides, there is no chance of being able to identify who the culprit was.
Try going into a Crips neighborhood and try to teach Bloods’ phylosophy. Probably suffer the same fate, but with knives and bullets instead of arrows. Best to keep to one’s own kind and not try changing the paths others have chosen.
All you're doing is sealing your fate by making such comments Don. You are so ignorant and so arrogant that you don't realize the error in YOUR judgment (not Chau's judgment), but you will realize it one day, because you were made for destruction you poor, worthless, everlasting fool. Rev 20:11-15.
Minister Leslie Kulac..You need to reexamine your thought process because I find it so disrepectful to the natives.
People like Kulac don't care about the rights of others when it comes to stuffing their belief systems down other people's throats. They have no respect for the beliefs of others.
Debbie..you are 100% correct. There is no "War on Christianity"..it's simply people deciding they are not going to be bullied by christians any longer and standing up to them.
I agree with Debbie and appreciate Bob's following no-nonsense reply.
Mr Kulac, please don’t tell me you are old enough to have the right to vote. Your thought structure is really scary.
That guy was just another delusional schizophrenic who heard God talking to him, and got what he deserved for sticking his nose where it didn't belong, in other peoples business, who were minding their own business until he came along and started acting like a Bob Fleutsch protege.
Yes. These people live in peace and have their own God. Leave them alone. Who do we think we are that WE know everything?
Truth is one but many great souls speaks in different ways. All religions and spiritual denomination lead to the Divine. Worshippers who are sectarian in nature are unable to accept the fact that truth behind every religion is the same, sure worships are dependent upon the religious system that has been presented by the churches,Temples,or Mosques they are upon the teaching of Christ revealed in the New Testament.
Well, Mr Sharma, how can anyone determine truth in any religion that has been dreamed up by the thoughts and imaginings of mankind? Most religions of today are at best only 2000 years old, if that, some a little longer. Considering the earth has been around for millions of years, and mankind, as we currently know it, for a couple of hundred thousand years, I don’t see the point, or need, for any religion.
Thank you for your comment
Amen. Thank you Lionheart.
Perhaps this tribe, having existed on earth for 50,000 years, many centuries longer than Christianity has been around, maybe their religion is the right one, maybe their god is the true god. Anyone who understands religion in a historical context realizes that at one time, all gods were the right god for their time. The story of Jesus isn't even original and many of his followers are lacking in knowledge and too arrogant for their own good. Some Christians need to try reading more than just one book. As for Chau, he broke the law, and he also failed to follow the words of the bible that state one should knock the dust from one's sandals and move away from those who refuse to listen.
I find it hard to feel sorry for someone who threatens others lives in his arrogance.
Or maybe he should have obeyed the law and stayed away
The Aborigines of Australia have had the same religion for 60,000 to 80,000 years. They win on that basis.
"The Divine" was invented by Bronze Age sheepherders who didn't even know where the Sun went at night. You are an adult in the 21st century. Stop clinging to ancient superstitious nonsense and grow up.
Each have our own path to follow. None have the wisdom to really know which path is right for ourselves let alone for another. If we don’t agree with another’s point of view, might just accept that they own it and not allow ourselves to be upset by it. Admonishing probably won’t lead to a change in thinking, but might lead the admonisher into thinking they’ve won the moment. If so, might as well accept the path each has chosen. Best wishes to all for a healthy, happy and prosperous life.
No truth is not the same in other faiths. Truth is not relevant. That kind of logic leads to recognizing that even Nazi Germany was correct in committing genocide. My God, some of you people have been brain washed by secular humanism on a grandcscale. Islam teaches to kill Christians and Jews. Is that truth? No it is not. JUDAISM teaches that saving the life one human being is saving the life of all humanity. Is that true? You darn right it is. It's recognizing the Divine in each person. Catholicism teaches all religions have truth in them, but only partial truth. Not all religions lead to salvation. Only one does and that is Jesus Christ. Even Judaism leads to full revelatory truth. They believe in the coming of the Messiah. They just denied Him the first time. The Second Coming they will accept Him. That belief alone saves the ones who died in that belief. Salvation comes from the Jews as Jesus was Jewish. There is only one Way. Through the Blood of Jesus Christ.
A tragic story... yet John should have listened to the words of Our Saviour
Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 10:14 And if anyone will not welcome you or listen to your message, shake the dust off your feet as you leave that house or that town.
No one - NOT even the Messiah ever “forces” the LOVE or Word of God on anyone else...
Each of us is called to be wise in this world... Wisdom means knowing your limits and knowing your audience as a witness
Breaking the law IS NOT following Christ... for He said “render to Caesar that which is Caesar’s!”
When you act in civil disobedience you diminish the Gospel and while it is TRUE that...
No one is a fool Who exchanges that which they cannot keep... For that which they cannot lose
The greater TRUTH is that one must be fully in tune with the authority of God before acting
Rash behaviour will always result in the weakening the testimony
Beautifully presented response, Kathlynn. Thank you.
Indeed❤️ I just joined this community and I’ve got to be honest I’ve read all of the comments and I must say i’m quite saddened by inability for others to see what a tragic situation this is for both parties the Christian man who went to share his faith and these poor frightened people, the fear that they must have felt this is very sad and and unjust situation all around . Rather than bashing one another’s comments and views as human beings at whole ,imagine yourself in each situation there is no justice there’s no making it right brother let this be an experience and something that we can teach each other so that we don’t harm one another nor place yourself in The future with situations like that it’s all very sad and very sad for the man that lost his life and I’m very sad that those people have endured so much fear because of outsiders I will pray for everybody I will hope that we can remember this Very situation and share it with othersI love Jesus Christ and I love human beings from all over I don’t judge him for which religion they choose oh which they believe but I think this world could truly have a chance in hopes that this doesn’t happen anymore I love Jesus Christ I also love my fellow human beings regardless of what they believe system is in regardless of what religion they choose to believe it or not and religion I have friends of all nations that are a big part of my life it shows me how big and wide and her grand this world is this god is this universes we are all like puzzle pieces with the right to be here I’ve always told people if you make it before me and it’s better than where I Am or a place of peace hope and Above all else love do you remember one thing my name is Tiffany please remember me and I should do the same I think extending myself out as a way of showing love a universal language
Tiffany, you speak the language of pure love for all humans as the great religious teachers of most religions would have done. Your words reflect those of the Universal Life Church, “We are all children of the same universe” regardless of the spiritual or secular path each has chosen. Best wishes to you as you follow your path through life.
What you say sounds really lovely, Tiffany, unless you're a member of a minority religion and have had these so-called do-gooders try to "share their faith" with you. I am a Witch. I am also a lawyer. I understand the First Amendment gives people the right to knock on my door. I have the right to slam that door in their faces. I've been on the receiving end of several Johns, and I don't want to be bothered. I hope that John's death will deter others from thinking that they have the right to shove their religion at others. We all have the right to believe as we wish. I most definitely DO judge him for thinking that he had the right to approach them. He didn't.
Yes beautifully presented. Absolute rubbish from an horrific fictional book, but beautifully presented!
Is there anything interesting from any of the Harry Potter books you’d like to quote? Personally, I think they are better written with a great story line, and not quite so horrific. Just asking!
The longer I walk with God the more I am convinced that he is love and truth. Religion was not created by him because it causes separation, division,hate, fanaticism, makes people do things that a loving god would never ask. Suicide bombers think they are very religious. Even believing in nothing is a religion and is very passionate about defending it's way of thinking. You can hear religion all through this site. Isn't it time to just all come together in the truth of love and build one and other up instead of tearing each other apart. I have met the father and he is love. I have bet my life on it in the way I choose to live. Good luck to everyone in pursuing your dreams and hopes that will define your life. I do believe this tragedy could have been avoided if the boy would have sought out some mature council. Haven't we all done things that we escaped from only by the grace of the creator? Good luck with your bet CWTMINC.com Can We Talk Ministries
Mr Faith, you said above "Haven't we all done things we escaped from only by the grace of the creator"
Um no! I think only Noah's family escaped during the fictional flood. The rest of mankind supposedly perished.
Um no! The first born males didn't escape from your fictional gods wrath of Pharaoh.
Those two event were actually created by your loving god because of his anger management issue.
I'll ignore the grace of your creator when it comes to saving 6 million jews during the holocaust as I'm sure you'll say it was all mans fault, but clearly your god wasn't really interested anyway, or he'd have done something about it using his "grace of God" magic spell stuff. I'm sure they all gave him a piece of their mind, and flipped the bird, when he welcomed them through those fictional pearly gates.
Anyway, keep walking with him and being convinced of his love and truth. One day you'll find you might need him and he won't really be there, he'll leave you to it, but it's a very nice thought though isn't it.
I don't believe God wants any of us to ridicule the beliefs of another
Neither does Harry Potter, but don't take it seriously, it's only a book.
The same Bible god that commanded the deaths of heathens for worshipping the "wrong" gods? THAT god? Because I believe you are horribly mistaken. "Yes, kill those heathens for their beliefs , but don't make fun of their beliefs!" --- A bit on the silly side.
John, I generally agree with your statement in response to Lionheart. His comments, however, reflect the path he has chosen to follow. I accept that it is his path and not mine.
This minister knew that what he was doing was illegal and was warned several times prior to his death that he was not allowed on the island. His presence would have wiped out the entire tribe as they did not have immunity to diseases he carried. Had he lived, he could have brought about complete genocide. Is that the work of a "good Christian?" If so, maybe religion is not his forte.
The ICC is wrong in wanting to prosecute the islanders for protecting their lives. This is a case of self defense, as he invaded their home, they did not go to his home and attack him.
Some of you people cannot be as ignorant as you sound in your postings. The missionary is not always a doctor. For him or her to understand that following the great commission from the Bible might be dangerous to the health of an ignorant tribe of individuals is not even a valid thought pattern for intelligent individuals. To love someone, you do not even know, enough that you would lay your life on the line, to offer them the knowledge of the love of their creator should speak volumes to those of you that do not believe that God is real. Aren’t we just as guilty of murder, when we won’t step with the medicines and Vaccines that will save this tribe from infections, that might be carried in, in the future?
Just because you choose to remain ignorant doesn’t exclude you from prosecution of laws governed by your country, island or territory. If this tribe believes it’s ok to kill, just because something MIGHT happen, then the extinction of their tribe might be the best thing to happen before they commit further murders.
Good god, this is insane. It's their country, their laws. The US doesn't run the world, and considering the present government that's a very good thing.
The missionaries have been committing genocide for thousands of years. Some with disease and some with the sword. I have run into extremists were so relentless in their need to convert everyone to their beliefs that i was ready to shoot them with an arrow myself. I know how the natives felt. Keep your religion to yourself, pray to the god within. I don't need or want your hypocritical teachings and neither do the natives. To the natives he was no different than the missionaries that wiped out entire indian cultures.
Rick you are ignorant. Its people like you that started the spanish inquisition, causing the deaths of innocent people, just because they don't believe in your god. The natives have their own law and leaders, Chau was breaking their laws and was punished according to their customs.
Well minister kulac why not join him,if the cause is so worthy
It was Jesus who got him killed. What a ridiculous mission to embark upon.
The blind arrogance of people who are so immersed in their chosen religious doctrine that they feel compelled to impose it on others is mind boggling. Not one human being knows the "truth of God". This man was intruding. He was amply warned by people who ended his life only when her persisted. They could have killed him outright the first time he approached their private homeland.
This was nothing more than an act of deluded arrogance. These people do not want anyone on their island. Christians have a long history of forcing their beliefs on others. Theirs is not the ONLY way, and he had no right to break the law and encroach on their land, endangering all of the islanders. The islanders are entirely correct to have taken the actions that they did. They don't need a piece of Jesus or any other foreigner.
If tje people who live around them do go there then dont go there, if you see a haunted house and wverybody says dont go there everybody who goes there dies and never makes it back and you say dammit im going and you get killed its your own fault,
Glad you said this. For all of the apparently agnostic or atheistic people on this website...why are you on here at all? If you don’t agree with religion, or a divine being, or God, or whatever, then why get so worked up? I think this missionary at least deserves some level of respect and a traditional burial.
If this story is really true that is. Sad state of affairs when a fella has to qualify an opinion. But that is a tale for another day...
I think that missionaries are incredibly stupid and careless people with little regard for their lives. I can just hear Jesus saying, I put those savages there for a reason...maybe it is fate that he brought a disease that will wipe them out. Eventually that is what will happen. But his negligence about his life he will have to answer to. The universe making a correction...
The man was a fool he knew the laws and went any way so really he committed a sin by doing a Christian suicide by going there even though he knew he could be killed or even become a killer himself by spreading pathogens which the native people couldn’t hope to fight. I am sorry for the man’s family truly but this is what happens when you go too far and try to force people to convert when you’ve been warned off not just by arrows but by the laws of the world as well. So no the native people shouldn’t be brought to so called justice because the were justified in defending themselves.
He should have followed his own path and respected others to follow theirs. He knew the dangers and made his choice. The natives should be left alone. No more lives should be wasted attempting to retrieve the body. Not the natives through disease transmission nor the rescuers through arrows.
You are so right! First of all all of us have to respect the laws of the country, which prohibited going there specifically!!! Then there is past history, indicating illness transfer may bring disease and death to these people rather than " Jesus". And the natives dragged his body up the beach and buried him, let it be there as a final resting place where he wished to be.
Sounds to me like John risked his life for his faith, but I don't know he was right in doing so. To force the Christian faith or any other on these people I just don't think is right. And the law prohibited him from going there, yet he did anyway. Why CONVERT them from what ever god they worship. Why not just honor and respect them. Tell them about your God but if they choose to continue to worship their own god, so be it. Planting a seed does not mean force feeding. He invaded their space and was seen as a treat to them. They were protecting themselves and their way of life. When he saw he was not welcome he should have left.
We forget due to our inability to understand truth than God is one and is known by many names and is presented to us in many ways according to our personal believes.
Our inability to understand things is why humans invented gods. A shame so many cling to this superstitious security blanket rather than evolve and move forward.
Agreed and it's a shame that people feel that they have to have answers to everything. There is nothing wrong with not knowing the answer. Shouldn't we learn that in elementary school? Delusion is a way of life for most people.
Right on, Don and deb!
Sharma, your observations are valid to those who are sure there is a Divine.My opinion is that humans did invent gods to alleviate fear of the unknown. They sure did a poor job of it, though, as they invented so many gods and so many (manmade) rules that they created chaos and misery.
He probably thinks he was martyred, and in a way he was, but not everybody wants to hear the story he was telling. Missionaries as often as not have just been paving the way for conquerors or exploiters.
Most do-gooders really should stay at home and tend to their own family and garden, and give others the freedom and privacy to do the same. If these people wanted something different, they could signal they want something different. Otherwise, they should be left alone.
No, they should not be prosecuted. He was warned.
He died for his faith and was killed for theirs. A balance of sorts.
Yes. That's a good way to look at it.
Just had to fit in your extreme right wing libertarian rhetoric in didnt you J.O.
This man was not a do gooder. Missionaries are invasive, manipulative, and seek to sow dissent in non christian cultures and overthrow the status quo. They are far more like guerilla soldiers of their church.
But we get it, you want everyone to mind their own business as you put it, so that abusive spouses, child molesters and all the other degenerates out there can do whatever they wish without oversight from the community they live in.
In a society everyone is responsible for everyone else, we must police our own first and foremost not ignore those that are cancerous.
But we get it, you know you are one of those sane and civil minded people would see driven into exile to die alone because you refuse to grow and change with society and instead seek to fight against anything that dares to challenge your archaic belief systems.
Ofcourse we really shouldnt expect better from a self admitted birther,creationist, and more then likely a flat earther to.
T'Keren, what are you talking about? I said nothing extreme, and rhetoric is the specialty of lefties. You must have read the first three or four words I wrote and invented the rest in your poisoned little mind. I think the dude was stupid and I hate do-gooders. Now what is it about that you don't like?
ALSO, I am not extreme right wing and extreme right wing is not libertarian, you semi-literate troll. Again, you showed that you are a moron.
Hahaha respect on that, what a twat
Yes. Wow. And I would add that he only thought he was a do-gooder. He most certainly was not. He had no idea that he was an ignorant self centered idiot with no respect for that tribe.
Valmez.... you are WAY off base. Jeez.
Shakespeare would probably see him --who "suffered the slings & arrows of outrageous fortune"--as a tragic hero. Such heroes, of course, have a tragic flaw, which he surely did. So I think the question of 'deserving his fate'--or not, is not the point. I can mourn his death, see him as having a concept of faith that is disrespectful of others, and still mourn his death.
BTW If we are all ministers in this debate, oughtn't we have the same respect for each other in our comments. Ginny
WHOA! What on earth was THAT? It is one thing to disagree, but is another to name call. Can we keep it civil, please?
We are all adults here. We don’t need referees. If YOU find something personally offensive, then complain about it. But don’t tell the rest of us how we should act.
I am often accused, and guilty of calling names, Priestess, but you would be hard-pressed to find a place where I was the first in an exchange to call names. I start out civil, and become abrasive, as the need arises, as in this stupid exchange with the T'person above, who just mouthed off without reading or thinking, because he likes to think he has a sharp wit. Off his meds, I guess. Sometimes he is okay, but sometimes he isn't. I respond in kind, depending on which of his personalities is dominant that day.
Some of these nuts will call you anything if you just don't agree with them. If you don't have a thick skin, don't say much on the blogs.
Amen, Rev. Rene.
Why do Christans belief that their beliefs are better than so callled heathens? Or other religions belief theirs is best? I think they are all deluded. If God is Love every body is the same regardless. The source is pure energy and we were created in that Image, Energy. Then people, religions, started to create him in their physical image and that is were God came in, revengefull and a cruel God according to the the bible. In your image. Wake up people, and listen the new science. Astrophysics and quantum physics. Use your intelligence! Find it on youtube! Neal deGrassi Tyson, Rupert Sheldrake etc. ????
Amen! Well stated, Willie.
Yes well stated Willie. I was raised Catholic as a child then I studied the Christian Bible and thought I was told the truth. But now I really don't know about that. The Bible was written by MAN so how do I really know EVERY word is true. No one today was around when Jesus walked the Earth so who can say for sure. And no one has died and come back to tell us what the after life (if there is one) is like. Is the Christian faith THE ONE TRUE faith or is it all a giant lie?
I do prison outreach ministry. Why? Because I was there whete they are. One thing I learned on the inside. You don't force your faith on anyone. You lead by example. They watch to see if you walk the walk you preach to them. If they see thst you do, THEY WILL COME TO YOU and ask questions, then you just teach them what you know and leave it up to them to become Christian if they want to. That's why I got my 2nd ordination from ULC. I already haf one from World Christianship Ministries but I wanted to reach out to inmates of ALL faiths
forgot the . net
Giant lie...Mental slavery at its best.
Trust me, Dave. It's only true for those who believe in it, like all other forms of mythology, even the Pagan myths I believe in. Myths can be very real in our imaginations, but there is no one true way for all to believe. There is no one true religion, for no religion was created by God.
BANG BANG NO RELIGION WAS CREATED BY GOD
Yea! Thats it! Find truth on YouTube!
Willie..The days of mental slavery is over..for some anyways. Your comment is so right. We need to embrace each others and enjoy our differences. And we would soon realize we are so much the same. That what have separated us is religion. God has no religion...Metra_/_
I have tried to feel sympathy for this guy but I can't. First what part of "forbidden" did he not understand. Second, what business is it of his that to "convert" people who have no interest in what he has to offer. Third, clearly these people have a clearer idea of how to defend their borders than we do here in the U.S.
I totally agree with you I do understand what he was trying to do but when you know who you are dealing with their history should have prayed for them at his house so sorry he had to lose his life hope others get the message to stay away
So many opportunities to help people right here in your own back yard, and yet he has to go around the world and perform his missionary work where it was neither needed or appreciated. He had his own agenda and he didn't give a rat's ass (pardon my French) to the consequences to himself and to the people he put at risk. He is indeed a recipient of the "Darwin Award" . His gene pool will never go forward and frankly that's probably a good thing. Maybe his passing will help others to do a little introspection before they act irresponsibly.
Go back a few years, Aztecs, Mayans, hey we wantcha to believe in dis guy, not your guy, go forward a few years, North American indians, hey we wantcha to believe in dis guy, not your guy, go forward a few more years, Africa, hey we wantcha to ................. Well I think you get my point, Im not saying the missionary system didn't work in some cases but if you look at the genocide created by what they were trying to accomplish i think these people came out on top for a change, and the Darwins should prove me right.
"When the missionaries came to Africa, they had the Bible and we had the land. They said “let us close our eyes and pray.” When we opened them, we had the Bible, and they had the land."
-- Attributed to Desmond Tutu
We have a saying in Hawai’i: the missionaries came to Hawai’i to do good and did well.
You need to study the real history of the missionaries in hawaii. they almost wiped out the Hawaiian nation. Killed everyone who didn't submit.
Apparently you didn’t understand the comment. It certainly isn’t meant as any kind of compliment. They did well for themselves. I know the history of Hawai’i. It’s were I was born and raised.
Unfortunately, he was an uneducated, indoctrinated, idiot. His parents are possibly to blame. He might just as well have stood in front of a high speed train and commanded it to stop in the name of his god to show the power of his faith. Result would have been similar....splat. You can’t fix “stupid”.
Yes..its sad to say..You can't fix stupid. Parents or the church are responsible for this man's death not the natives.
If you are going to head out to another world nothing like your own better prepar to do as the people there do . This includes the law of that land .... anyone believing they are above the law will suffer the conquiences . If your referring yourself as Christian act according to the laws where you are . This young mad set off on his own misdirected ideals to Save a tribal people that do not need saving ... one thing that angers me is any religious representative believing they should Convert any other person to their level of faith and worship of their chosen deity . Wat to bring another into your personal belief space live every moment as you should . Follow your faiths doctrine and way of everyday living . If others enquirer as to why your life seems to be filled with love , giving , progress then and Only then do you speak of your faith . Then move on to daily chores . No one likes to be forced into any thing or belief .... That tribe of natives did what any other counrtry would today do in our society they arrest you for crossing into their country for illegal entry as does most countries . He knew the law violated the laws and paid the ultimate price and that action had nothing to do with Religon , faith, belief it was the response of a tiny island nation whom want to be left alone . As for his remains let’s hope the idiot even in his death does not cause the spread of viruses and bacteria that can wipe out a group of beings never exposed to such things before . Everything the young mad did was bore of stupidity and ignorance Jesus is not going to Save you ...You must save yourself first . I’ve served in the missionary through a small group in East Texas way back in the early 1980s . One thing I despised was the attempted Conversion of indigenous peoples of Central America from northern Mexico clean down to Belieze . Most of the people had grand visions of Saving other people from their pagin beliefs .... Leave people alone they don’t need saving if and when some should convert to a different belief that’s their path not yours to interrupt in this life . I’ve found there is no right or wrong belief system or needing lead down a path of religious zealotry . Pretty much every faith system I’ve experienced around the globe all have one goal to enlighten ones actions and advance in the after life a place of no more suffering especially human forced suffering . I ended my faith in modern American / European Christian system of controlling the masses many government sanchaned forced idealotry . Large Christian groups are more like a government instution abusing people’s faith to gain control over wealth and power over others . I’m 50% Choctaw 50% Scottish European Anglo . I’ve herd of the long held stories of the Choctaw beliefs they are one of the 5 civilized tribes as were coined for accepting Christian law and civilized conversion . They along with other tribes lost the identity of their ancestors and their long held faith . Only in recent times have certain tribal members are bringing back lost values that worked long ago . It’s a terrible shame for any religious group to use food and other needed things as bait to convert anyone this is how many Christian ummmmm warriors go about converting groups . Find a group in need as their society may be starving or what ever is effecting survival in a modern world . Bait them ...want more convert ... I have 0 sorrow for this young mans death 0 ... he crossed the line and cost him his life . Move on and learn from this event , stop attempting to inject your personal faith / religon on anyone . Again to be completely repediative don’t be stupid ... stupid is as stupid does it always ends badly . Pastor B Stevens The Forest is my church .......
Wow! Yes. I agree with you. This guy had no business going there. They gave him warnings and he ignored them. The Christian ego is enormous. So many of them are unable to see beyond the brainwashing they've received. The Forest is a good church to belong to.
The forest is the best church to belong to.
I agree with so many of the commenters here; leave the island people alone. Stop trying to force your beliefs on others, even breaking the law in order to do it. And, who knows what pathogens the natives may have been exposed to simply by handling his body in order to bury him. What a selfish act by this young man.
I feel that this young man came with good intentions but didn't understand what he was walking into and that it would cost him his life is tragic. Think about what the first arrivals in America did to the American Indians. Want to read about this horror story? Check out a book called "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee". Disease decimated the Indians and usurping their land and slaughtering them wholesale finished the job. Alcohol was a serious factor too. Definitely not politically correct! It is really unusual to find any group of people this isolated on earth today. Every time civilization encroaches on indigenous peoples the result is almost always going to be bad.
It is said that the way to hell is paved with good intentions! ???
How did they find the diary and not find the body?
Chalk up another one for the international christianity community. They want to persecute ehr uhm I mean prosecute a people that are on their land, living by their rules and upholding their clearly recognized desire to be left the hell alone.
This half mad looney toon of a fool that had intelligence replaced by indoctrination was a legitimate threat to these people based on their previous history with invading main land inhabitants.
And ofcourse now so called christians that put their faith before all others rights and beliefs want to see these people invaded, exposed further, so that a man committing a willful crime of trespassing can be avenged erh uhm I mean given justice.
And they wonder why people with even half a functioning brain cell are growing disgusted with the antiquated archaic beliefs from centuries ago.
Well said Lea, spot on!
They saw him as an illegal alien encroaching into their land, so they took care of the threat.
Perhaps we could borrow them for a while to help take care of ours?
For shame..but a good one.
This Missionary was ill prepared for the task he attempted. I cant personally think of a way this could actually get done with out a bad outcome. These people are protecting their lives and keeping the outside world out. How does anyone know what they actually do believe ? Is our God so weak that he needs us to reach out to these people ? or could he have another way to reach these peoples hearts ? Only God will know the true hearts of these people. They should not be punished they should be left alone. who knows maybe one day God will touch one of these people to leave their home and come out to the outside world. Then he of she may be able to go back and bring the word to these people along with medicine and other things that could be helpful . I know this sounds childish , but what did Jesus say about the Children ??....
Maybe god has already touch their lives...What makes you think your god is better then theirs!! You are so judgemental.
I don't think Jesus said enough about the ignorance of adults, although he was planning to, the following year. We must always plan, organize, implement, and control in that order always, and only.
God has no religion. It amazes me how Christians feel they can just come in and enslave peoples minds. Typical self centered. And Christians think these people should be charged with murder!! But over look the dangers that they put these people in...This type of mind set should be held accountable..The church that set him out and its no different then the young ones that bang on my door ...Should be held responsible for his death!! I don't feel sorry for him and his body should be left there..Start taking responsibility for your actions of stupidity.
His body could be used for dish and crab bait. Let's send them a fax about that.
I may add..Its disrepectful to push your beliefs on others .Why don't you try living what you preach.
Wow. I think this is the first time I have seen everyone agreeing and I have to say that it does my heart good.
While it is sad that he died, as it is a sad thing in almost every case, he was warned multiple times. (the first arrow would have had my ass gone) Even if he wasn't in that area illegally, once he was warned it was trespassing. Therefor it wasn't murder. They were protecting themselves from what could have potentially been the equivalent of a mass bomber.
I don't know much about missionaries save what I have seen on tv, but it has always been my understanding ( in today's world at least) that they went into "godless" areas to help people and if those people were interested in their faith they were more than happy to share their teachings but that it was supposed to be about helping people not about forcing your way into their homes.
As to some of the statements about god touching their lives. (if that is your religion, it's not mine just an FYI) Then I would look at it as god did touch their lives by saving them from a well meaning but not well educated man who could have eradicated them from the planet. We may have different names for the power that inspires us to be better but it's not about the name we use but about the people we are.
God Bless You Amy. We, the outside world, have no idea of these folk or their beliefs. They do know what's right for them. Reverend Ian
Unless you were a Witch like me, then those Christians tied you to and burned you to death at a stake for not believing in the same God and religion. Don't even think about spewing out that crap about Christians and Christianity having always only preached to those who wanted to hear them. How would you like to be turned into a toad ? Believe it or not, I have past life memories of being burned to one of those stakes. Although Christians might be better in this century, they weren't always nearly as prim and proper, as they now claim.
I have past life memories of being nailed to a cross as the savior of mankind, “believe it or not” Carl. It was absolutely horrible! I wouldn’t like that again, how about you Carl? To this day in my present life I still get pins and needles in my hands and feet. How about you Carl? Do you get heart burn, or suffer with hot flashes in your present life?
Do you feel better having used sarcasm to admonish Carl for his belief?
He should bot have gone there knowing the culture and reason for staying away. And no dont go wondering around trying to get his body he was wrong and to get him would be wrong 2 wrongs dont make it right. Leave these people the children of them alone in there safe place on gods earth its the way he made it to be so they could live life just as we do.
Their land; their rules. The ICC sounds like an organization of terrorists happily advocating genocide. Those islanders had every right to protect themselves, and Chau got exactly what he deserved. I hope that it is a lesson to others who think they have the right to shove their beliefs down others' throats. What a bunch of vile, odious people the ICC is. How dare they advocate for prosecuting for murder a group of people who were only upholding their own laws against invasion by foreigners?
I believe the last paragraph of the article to be comprised of logic, common sense, and imo, is inarguable.
He tried, the tribe wants NO part of the rest of the world. We should respect their wishes and leave them alone. That guy is with God now so all good.
Every person / people has the right to choose their own path(s) until it hurts or injures others. John could have wiped out this entire population. It was an ill conceived plan at best.
It is so unfair that this tribe gets to protect it's beliefs and I cannot. Free country? I would love to be able to lob arrows at the pesky Jehovah Wittnesses and Mormons.
This is Karma in action. No one has the right to force their beliefs on anyone. Each person experiences the Divine in their own very personal way and no two are the same.
With respect to all involved - minister, natives, commentators - the statement "Father forgive them they know not what they do" absolves all unto peace. We need do nothing. God has this well in hand and everything else.
I approached this comment section braced for disappointment and am pleasantly surprised to see so many people being rational. Hooray!
First, it is illegal to approach this island. Second, he had to bribe the sailors to even approach the island, and he dropped them off a mile from shore. Third, the natives have been known to kill any intruder, no matter how innocent their trespass. He knew the dangers, and he insisted on breaking international law.
He was forewarned about the inhabitants of the island and their way of life. He was told that others have been killed and not to approach the island. He chose to ignore the warnings and lost his life because of it. When will well meaning but ignorant people learn?
Christians missionaries are like fucking culture daleks... killing them on sight seams quite sensible given their history....
and especially when you consider the fact that these fuckheads do shit like lobby for the death penalty for homosexuality in African countries or even aggravate modern witch-hunts.
Republicans should approve the protect their borders from illegal aliens X3
anyway i have absolutly 0 empathy for idiots like that! another darwin award winner if you ask me.
So these ignorant savages will get away with murder.
I hope you can soften your heart to the natives. They were defending their lives.
My ancestors were called ignorant savages too. They were native Americans, look what happened to them when the white man came to enlighten them.
Attaboy Keith. You tell them how "The Cow eats the Cabbage". That super judgemental corrupted statement of yours tells everyone just how badly you need to go home and clean your own toilet. They don't need us, they made it clear they didn't want him. That's intelligent life.
In this particular case, Chau was the ignorant savage. The island natives were merely upholding their laws.
Are you suggesting, Mr Allier, that if someone walks into your home unannounced, and you feared for your life, like they obviously did, you wouldn’t defend yourself?
There's nothing savage or ignorant about wanting to be left undisturbed. They didn't want him there. He was warned. They don't need his version of Jesus. It's not murder, it was self-defense. Score one for the "savages".
I don't know if he "deserved it". I'm not the one who can make that decision. He knew he would likely die and he was willing to do so.
I think George Carlan said it best, Religion is like lifts in your shoes, They make you fill better about yourself but don't try to nail lifts to others feet.
There is following your faith and beliefs and then there is just being an idiot. These simple people have never in history allowed outsiders in. This is not new. While unfortunate that this young man died, he chose to do this and the result was as expected. Leave these people alone and they will harm none. Their soventry must be respected.
He broke the law. It was against the law for him to go to the island. (Romans 13:1-5 ESV / 350 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.)
It is good that the invader was quickly killed, history has taught us what Christians are willing to do to convert others.
When Columbus and the Christians showed up in the Caribbean in 1492 to introduce my people to their 'god', we were a peaceful people.
""They ... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things, which they exchanged for the glass beads and hawks' bells. They willingly traded everything they owned... . They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features.... They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane... . They would make fine servants.... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want."
"Endless testimonies . .. prove the mild and pacific temperament of the natives.... But our work was to exasperate, ravage, kill, mangle and destroy; small wonder, then, if they tried to kill one of us now and then.... The admiral, it is true, was blind as those who came after him, and he was so anxious to please the King that he committed irreparable crimes against the Indians...."
When we would not convert, he sent for the conquistadors who arrived in 1493 to attempt to wipe out my people. By the time his last voyage arrived on our islands in 1502, and they were done attempting to converts us, 80% of my ancestors had been tortured and killed. 30 of our islands were cruelly depopulated then laid to waste. The devastation was in fact so horrible that Fray Bartolomé de las Casas turned against his own people to defend my ancestors.
"They took infants from their mothers' breasts, snatching them by the legs and pitching them headfirst against the crags or snatched them by the arms and threw them into the rivers, roaring with laughter and saying as the babies fell into the water."
"They made some low wide gallows on which the hanged victim's feet almost touched the ground, stringing up their victims in lots of thirteen, in memory of Our Redeemer and His twelve Apostles, then set burning wood at their feet and thus burned them alive. They attacked the towns and spared neither the children nor the aged nor pregnant women nor women in childbed, not only stabbing them and dismembering them but cutting them to pieces as if dealing with sheep in the slaughter house."
"They made a grid of rods which they placed on forked sticks, then lashed the victims to the grid and lighted a smoldering fire underneath, so that little by little, as those captives screamed in despair and torment, their souls would leave them."
As pagans, we are not godless, we have many deities assigned to natural occurrences and such. Christians must stop trying to convert those who do not want conversion. What kind of religion is so desperate for members that is is willing to kill the pagans for not wanting to trade in our existing beliefs for their evil, vengeful, narcissistic god.
If this idiot(with full knowledge)decided to go their ILLEGALLY then so be it,it was against the law,and it was pure arrogance on his part to go,of course the Christians will probably make the idiot a martyr
After reading most of these Posts. There is something missing. What he did was Illegal! The Indian government place that island and I it's inhabitants OFF LIMITS! If they defended them selves and he was killed I see it as SELF DEFENSE. NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS!!
This is the problem with "true believers" who believe their way is the only way for all of humanity. Chau, deliberately broke the laws of India, by sneaking onto the island, not once, but three times, endangering the island's inhabitants, in order to proselytize. When a person thinks only they have the answer, they not only ignore the established culture, customs, beliefs and stories of those who may believe differently, but it is also rude arrogance on the part of the proselytizer. Some philosophies would call his demise karmic, because he was not engaging in "right action." Respect the beliefs and customs of others, and if someone is really dissatisfied or feels there must be another path for them to follow, they will seek it out given opportunity. Chau, was a victim of his own small-mindedness, lack of respect and brainwashing by the missionary mindset. The International Christian Concern (ICC), should stop meddling, or better yet, practice what they supposedly preach - "turn the other cheek," walk away, and pray for the souls of all concerned. ICC action is wrong, just as Chau's actions were wrong.
He should have minded his own business and left these people alone. His belief is not the only one in the world. The islanders have their own belief system and its no ones right to barge in and destroy their way of life.
Take that, Great White Savior.
Of course he deserved it. The tribe killed him in self defense, and were right in doing so. Throughout history millions, perhaps billions of people have been killed in the name of religion simply because a church demands that the world convert. Through war, disease, and famine religion is the number one cause of death around the world; and always has been. It is quite alright to have a relationship with your savior, in your own manner but, it is NOT okay to force your beliefs onto others.
He knowingly broke the law, trespassed in their property, and either knowingly or unknowingly seriously endangered them. Based on prior experience they understood the gravity to themselves of what his presence meant. I doubt they could understand his alleged intent. From my perspective they defended themselves, and because of his determined persistence it was fatal.
Wow!!! Imagine being the person to convert a whole tribe of people to Christianity by offering them a piece of fish. Later, you can come back and steal their land...exploit them...and all in the name of religion and love !
I find it interesting that somehow a religious person's valor is recognized by walking into the den of a lion asking it to convert. I see no intelligence walking into the situation John Chau got himself into.
This guy was using the name of God to justify his own prejudices. He went because he thought the people on the island were stupid. The trip to get to the island is difficult and dangerous. The intentionality of his acts tell me he went there because the authorities said he couldn’t. It was a criminal act.
He knew the rules when he went in. Let him stay. It wasn't an "unexpected" outcome.
If anyone is to be prosecuted in this case, it should be the arrogant missionary organization that broke the Law by sending the fool there in the first place. And apparently, they have been illegally invading the island for years.
Well, Mr Partin, the human being jumping up and down in the water was I think male, but whatever turns you on I guess!
Hummm! White meat the dogs do like. Send more! Is that like the preacher that travels to a Muslim country and is toss into jail for handing out Bibles. To be not so bright to believe that somehow his God would protect him. Wait until this tribe gets their hands on modern weapons able to shoot down air craft. Maybe do upon others before others can do upon them. They could have the solution to over population. Their bodies have a strain of Small Pox that the rest of the world has no defense against. Just go back to the late 1970's when man became infected with HIV either by sex with said monkey or being biten by said monkey. The results death by millions. Let the tribe live alone on their island far from others.
Indian laws were enacted for the protection of a vulnerable, endangered people, AND for the protection of those who choose to violate those laws. The laws were knowingly and intentionally violated. From the perspective of the indigenous people, their world was being violated by someone who was just another of those who nearly destroyed them in the past. To say he made an error in judgement is irresponsible. He violated numerous laws and warnings. While I admire his faith and conviction, his actions were criminal, irresponsible, dangerous and for lack of a better term, selfish. Even after several warnings from the indigenous people he still tried to force contact with him. People don't deserve to die for stupidity but at some point responsibility for their own death rests solely on them. I will pray for strength for his family and loved ones.
John Chau was not a missionary. He was a person of faith, but what he really was was an adventure blogger. He wanted the glory of going to that island and living among an uncontacted people to add to his collection of adventures.
A true missionary doesn't spread the Word for their personal glory.
The longer I walk with the Lord the more I am convinced He is Truth and Love. I don't believe God is in religion because it brings strife, fear, worry, separation,hate,fanaticism,superiority complex and other forms of putting people down. Even believing in nothing is a religion and will produce a passion to defend it's belief. A true relationship with the creator can happen along any road and is about more changing from within than making everyone around you think the same. Although because of the great peace and joy it brings I do wish to share with others. There is a lot of religion in the posts on this site and would suggest that it is time to rather encourage one another in love. It is a terrible turn of events that the boy was killed but one that could have been avoided if he would have sought wise council. I have met the creator and until you do it is very hard to believe he exists because of all the corruption that is around. Our choice not His. Hopefully I live my life in a way that shows my choice. Good Luck with yours ken CWTMINC.com
"FIRST DO NO HARM!" This is very sad, tragic! Happened because, rather than seeking to understand, he was seeking to be uderstood. Lessons for everyone on this forum.
Uh, nope....SELF DEFENSE!!! He knew the possible consequences of his actions, as did those who supported him. Christian persecution??? It appears to me, that some of Christian faith, think it's ok to persecute others beliefs, aka TRYING TO CONVERT. When things are not seen their way, they cry persecution. Again, this indigenous tribe, did what that felt they had to, to survive....SELF DEFENSE!!!
This iscreqlly an old story. Why does ULM keep posting it. Post up to date news. Not old news you've posted before. Look how old some of the comments are.