child_vaccineA mother in New York has won her appeal to not vaccinate her child with the MMR (measles, mumps, and rubella) vaccine for religious reasons. The woman, who was not publicly identified, stated that because the vaccine has links to aborted fetal cells, she had a religious objection to it. Originally, the Department of Education rejected her request to not have her son vaccinated because of her beliefs. However, she appealed, and an Education Commissioner sided with her. Because of this ruling, her son will be exempt from the vaccination and will be able to attend school without receiving the vaccine.

The Vaccination Debate

Vaccines have been in the news lately more than they ever have in the past. The majority of doctors recommend the Center of Disease Control's schedule for vaccinating, despite the alarming rise of number of vaccines. Between a child's birth and sixth birthday, he or she will receive a total of 33 vaccines, assuming he or she receives the vaccine on the recommended schedule. Many have raised the concerns over the potential health risks which are not well covered by the media, and most of the time, they aren't covered by doctors or nurses giving the vaccines either.

Possible Exemptions

In general, children are required to have a certain set of vaccinations before they are entered into the public school system. However, there are certain exemptions that can keep a child from being vaccinated. While it depends on the state you live in, here are the basic exemptions:

  • Medical Exemptions: These need to be signed by a doctor, saying that the child should not receive the vaccine for health reasons. It may be because their immune system is too weak to handle the vaccine, or because of an allergy to a preservative in the vaccination. Another common medical exemChild-sick-fever-jpgption is if the child has had a severe reaction to a previous vaccine.

  • Religious Exemptions: Religious exemptions state that people who have a religious opposition to vaccines (such as the woman we are discussing and her objection to the vaccine's link to fetal tissue) may sign a form exempting their children from vaccinations. However, the strictness of these policies varies by state, which is why the New York woman originally was told her reason for not vaccinating was not valid. Furthermore, three states (California, Mississippi, and West Virginia) do not allow religious exemptions.

  • Philosophical or Personal Belief Exemption: This exemption is only available in twenty states, and the rules apply differently depending on which state you reside in. This allows parents to exempt their children from vaccines if it goes against what they feel about vaccines personally.

Religious Freedom and Endangerment

Most of us would agree that each person has the freedom of conscience to make decisions on any issue that affects them and not others. Vaccination fits into a grey area in that regard. It isn't terribly likely at all that an unvaccinated person would create a major health risk due to what we call herd immunity.

Herd immunity is the ability of a population to resist an attack of a disease because the majority of members are immune to it and function as a shield to stop the susceptible people from even being exposed to it.

The problem with a movement of people not getting vaccinated is that this weakens that shield and more people will come into contact with highly contagious and sometimes deadly diseases. There is a somewhat common question that if vaccines work, then nobody should care when others choose to not get vaccinated, but this relies on a misconception.

As we mentioned above, there are some people born with weak immune systems or allergies, and even if they want to be vaccinated, they cannot be exposed to an otherwise harmless dose of a disease. These people depend on being shielded by herd immunity. Healthy people that opt out of vaccinations are contributing to the health decisions of others. Their freedom is, to an extent, infringing on the freedoms of others.

Problems with Government Mandates

gov table Giving the government power to make these medical decisions for us might seem perfectly fine and even reasonable to many, but it would heavily depend on who is wielding that power. This is always something we should consider when mandates are allowed.

Conceding power to one regime you like could result in that very power being handed over after the next election to someone with whom you disagree to enact measures perhaps even totally unrelated to why those powers were granted to the office in the first place. Even if you are pro-vaccination, consider that it becomes difficult to have a solid argument against other government mandates if you allow one on this issue.

ULC Ministers and Exemption

The ULC is a very diverse group of ministers with a plethora of beliefs. This includes religious and philosophical stances on vaccinations. We have been in contact with ministers that stress the medical benefits in championing a view that all children should receive at least some basic vaccinations not only for their own good, but in helping protect the herd immunity and protect those that cannot receive this preventative treatment.

We also regularly receive calls and letters from ministers that have religious objections to vaccinations and request exemption by way of their affiliation to the Universal Life Church. Religious exemption by way of a church requires that the religious body has an official stance on the matter and that finds the practice objectionable relative to their beliefs.

Since the ULC supports the freedom of belief of all our ministers, and given that we have ministers on opposing sides of the issue, the church does not have any official stance on the matter. As such, we cannot issue letters requesting exemption for our ministers. Any ministers seeking exemptions would need to express their beliefs as being personally held, not as part of church doctrine.

How do you feel about the woman in New York winning a religious exemption for her child? This no doubt will inspire many different and nuanced positions. We champion expression of religious freedom. We also want to consider the potentially problematic issues that arise as the numbers of children vaccinated drops as well as the problems in granting the government power to tell us what to do. How do you feel these considerations can be sufficiently addressed to the best benefit of us all?

Share with us below.


  1. Zeke Hanzl's Avatar Zeke Hanzl

    I do not have a "nuanced" position regarding legitimate vaccinations. Children should be vaccinated at the required age not only to protect them but all the other kids with whom they come in contact. There is excellent science supporting the efficacy and safety of vaccines required in the US. There is basically irrefutable science indication that vaccines do not cause Autism. Much as we do not like federal mandates, sometimes the State must act to protect it's citizens from damaging themselves or others.

    1. Rick's Avatar Rick

      Well said. Also, with the upswing of people not vaccinating their children (due to lack of actual education on the subject), these diseases are on the upswing as well. Try explaining to a child who contracts polio or has brain damage caused by fever of mumps or measles why you didn't get them vaccinated, right? It's appalling to me that people would risk their own child's health in this way.

      1. Rebecca Hood's Avatar Rebecca Hood

        I totally agree with you! Explain to your child why he/she has issues that could have been prevented. How could a person live with themselves knowing they are the reason their child has disabilities caused by illnesses they didn't have to get?

        1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

          The same goes for children infected by the vaccines, Rebecca. Those things aren't created by God. They use disgusting stuff to make them and they are sometimes contaminated. There are PLENTY of documented cases of vaccines CAUSING illness, but it is really difficult to prove they actually prevent them. If a population is vaccinated and do not get a disease, you ATTRIBUTE that to the vaccine but that is not provable. That is a matter of faith, and I have no faith in government or in do-gooders of any kind. Everyone has an agenda, and it is seldom actually altruistic.

          1. Matt's Avatar Matt

            Well said, John. Most vaccine peddlers promote 'science' like a religion. Safe and Effective, Safe and Effective, just believe. If they were to look into the 1913 Nobel prize in medicine, they would learn that proteins entering the body through effraction (forced entry) cause anaphylaxis. Peanut oils in vaccines...massive epidemic of peanut allergies. Now, more and more studies coming out about the overwhelming levels of aluminum in autistic brains. Explain why pregnant mothers shouldn't eat tuna because of mercury, but doctors and pharma have no problem with it as an adjuvant. Find the video titled 'brain neuron degeneration via mercury'. Become a critical thinker.

          2. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

            Thank you, Matt, but there is one flaw in what in you said-- "critical thinker." Too many of these people BELIEVE themselves to be critical thinkers just because they have swallowed the mainstream dogma about something. That makes them feel superior and of higher intellect, whereas, all too often, the very ones THEY label paranoid, less-educated, or downright ignorant are the ones who are actually using critical thinking skills and making their OWN observations based on experience. Too many people have allowed even their instinct for self-preservation to be propagandized right out of them, and have lost the ability to believe things they can see with their own eyes. "Strong delusion."

      2. seth gross's Avatar seth gross

        If you believe that the vaccinated are being infected by the non vaccinated, then so vaccines work as intended, and are you aware that the vaccinated shed the weakened (attenuated) vaccine's viruses for up to 40 days, infecting themselves and those they contact or within range of the shedding period. Almost all of the recent "break-outs" were within the well vaccinated (95%) population.

        1. Adrian's Avatar Adrian

          Well garbled Seth. I think the issue you are misunderstanding is that a well vaccinated population prevents transmission of diseases to those with a genuine medical reason not to receive a vaccination who will remain vulnerable to the disease and generally have extremely weak immune systems. Healthy people who choose not to receive vaccinations selfishly risk spreading disease to those weaker individuals and killing them. Sometimes people need help to make the right choices.

          1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

            So, why is it SELFISH for someone to decide NOT to vax, but NOT selfish for someone ELSE to decide that they should HAVE to vax? You are saying that because some people are too unhealthy to vax, that's okay for THEM, and it is not selfish for THEM to be a reason to force others to vax. That is a horrible double standard.

      3. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

        For ZEKE and Rick --If the STATE is so interested in protecting its citizens, it should control immigration and foreign travel by citizens and prevent demonstrators from blocking traffic. A “legitimate” vaccination is when a parent decides that it is legitimate. The STATE does not and shall not have control over the children of its citizens, regardless of what people like you who think you know better than the parents, say. The “excellent” science is tainted and biased in favor of the government, CDC, and big pharma, due to conflict of interest. The government is in favor of population control without appearing to be population control, and big pharma only wants big money. Neither of them cares about citizens or children. Read more at

      4. Kathleen's Avatar Kathleen

        DPT vaccinated children had higher mortality in this study:

    2. Bruce Wesley's Avatar Bruce Wesley

      Zeke, several years working as a forensic scientist taught me that the irrefutability of science is directly related to the amount of money available to support ones interests, and bury the evidence which proves it to be false.

      1. KK's Avatar KK

        If I go to a pharmacy I've never been to and pick up an Rx for which I don't file insurance, the pharmacy somehow finds my insurance information. I found this disturbing, so I asked how the pharmacy could do that, given the privacy laws in place. The pharmacy clerk told me they run my name through a national database and find my insurance info, if I have it. If the insurance, pharmacy, and healthcare industries have all of our information at the ready, the federal government CERTAINLY has it.

        When my child was born, I had to get a social security number for her, and this number has been given to every single doctor she has ever seen.

        I've often wondered why the CDC, which surely has the statistics on which children have been vaccinated and which have not (along with which children have autism or other disorders, and which do not), doesn't open up its records to the public? They have been requested numerous times, and people have even gone so far as to attempt to subpoena these records. These records are sealed and not available for us to view.

        Additionally, consumers are not able to sue immunization manufacturers in the courts for injuries caused by vaccines. People who suspect a vaccine caused injury are forced to go to what is commonly referred to as "vaccine court," which is run by the government, and accept the ruling that is handed down.

        I have a serious problem submitting my children to a system that does not provide full disclosure, does not allow me to seek free recourse for damages, and that demonizes and bullies those that dare ask questions. If that's okay for you--if you trust the government and the Rx industry to have your best interests at heart--then you go right ahead.

        If the facts were as black and white as the government claims, then we'd have the solid evidence in front of us. Do you honestly think the government would hesitate to swat the deniers down with hard cold facts? We don't have those facts and figures, however; all we have are personal attacks and name calling.

        This isn't too much to ask. I flip over food packages and check ingredients at the store. I check safety ratings on the cars I buy. I make sure car seats and cribs haven't been recalled before I use them. I check crime statistics before I move into a neighborhood. If my child needs federally guaranteed services in school, I make sure the school follows the law.

        All I (and countless other parents) want is to do the same when it comes to vaccines. I don't want to hear what your officials who used to work in the Rx industry, and now head our governmental agencies, assure me to be true. I don't want to see studies conducted by the immunization manufacturers.

        I want the numbers that relate to who in this country isn't immunized, and the percentage of unimmunized children with autism, ADHD, etc vs. the percentage of immunized children with spectrum disorders. You have them, let me see them. When I see the numbers, and if the numbers show that vaccines are indeed as harmless as everyone says they are, then I'll make doctor's appointments on the spot. Until then, I'll wait for the information I need to make informed decisions regarding my children's health. Period, end of sentence.

        1. norman j peace's Avatar norman j peace

          I live in a different country from you three of my partners children have major disabilities including downs syndrome all of them have ben vaccinated because I want the best of health for them. I have been to third world counties no vaccinations are available now just in the last 6 yrs 35 children have died from whooping cough. because of leftist fucking loonies like you are worried. I bet you are one of those mums that don't let you children eat dirt or peanuts (it might give them a disease) that is what wrong with the world today tree hugging fuckwits like you are worried about the government watching you and you don't spend enough time watching you offspring. just let them grow up playing in thre backyard with cuts and bruises time is to short. they grow up so quick spend them the time with them now before it is to late by the way I am 56 yrs old wake up before it is to late

          1. Karen Polvinale's Avatar Karen Polvinale

            Norman Peace there are case every day of children being harmed by vaccines. The last case I read awarded the parents 64 million dollars beause the child will now need skilled care for the rest of her life. What if that were one of your kids? Would you be so wiling to take whatever the government and vaccine makers tell you at face value then?

            The problem is people who don't think for themselves and just let the government and Big Pharma run our lives without a whimper. And if youre kids are vaccinated, why are you so worried about kids who aren't. If those vacines realy do work, your kids should be fine.

            And name calling just makes you look ignorant.

          2. kc's Avatar kc

            It isn't just the name calling that makes Norman look like an idiot.

          3. T's Avatar T

            Third world countries. Enough said.

          4. nitro MT's Avatar nitro MT

            I never had shots before I joined the Infantry and had a severe reaction to them. My children do not have shots and are healthy, smart and well educated. I make you look like a communist as far as politics and yes, I'm well educated on vaccinations and risks. I researched it online, in the library, with several doctors and scientists and have come to the conclusion that it all depends on your location, genetics and and religious convictions. I hope you will wake up someday. You are far from conservative if you believe people are liberal loons for not vaccinating their children. I'd bet you don't even have kids and are not up to date on your shots. Just speculation. If you did have kids, they were not exposed to the same shots and frequency as this gigantic cash cow we call modern pharmaceutical practices. If you have half a brain left after all your "conservative" indoctrination, you will find that the entire system is completely anti-freedom and entirely profit driven. It's theoretical medicine that treats everybody equally. It's worse than a high school science experiment. Good luck commie.

        2. Chris's Avatar Chris

          How many children are dying from immunizations and how many are dying from the actual disease?
          I have worked in the medical field for 17 years and have held a baby that was 7 weeks old, unable to get immunized because he was too young, and died from pertussis. He was exposed to his neighbors who "had a cold" and gave it to him, which was actually pertussis. So, instead of his neighbors getting a poke because his parents believe what you do, he lost his life.
          This was back in 1999, at which time the CDC was doing some research and found that the pertussis vaccine wears off and needs to be boosted.

          So explain to these parents why your children are more important than theirs.

          1. T's Avatar T


          2. T's Avatar T

            This was reply to PATTI, below here.


            "cases not limited to the unvaccinated" 70 measles infected; but they are ONLY using 43 records... statistics spin

            "The rate statewide (of exemptions) that year was 3.1%."

            "Experts say it's a problem when 8% or more decline vaccines that keep diseases such as measles from spreading."

            "And so when you have a scenario where hundreds of people get exposed, then even if the vaccine is 99% good after two doses, you're going to have a handful of people who are going to get sick."

            When I interviewed at one public university, I was told that "these vaccines are required"...I looked at the list, and informed the Director/Ass't Dean "then I will not be interested in attending your school". THEN I was handed a sheet for documentation of TITER levels, and was told that I could prove immunity via blood testing.

            As stated below, listing the ingredients of vaccines.... do your own research, choose what risks you will take for yourself, your family, and your future offspring and their future offspring for generations to come. Then live with your choices.

          3. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

            Does a vaccine to prevent the common cold exist? If this child was too young to vaccinate, doesn't that mean the vaccine is harmful? We have to use a little common sense in order for "education" to be of any use to anyone but those who try to run our lives for us.

        3. Karen Polvinale's Avatar Karen Polvinale

          KK, you are obviously a good parent and I'm with you 100%. If more people were that thoughtful about what goes into their bodies, this would be a much healthier world.

          1. T's Avatar T

            Yes. And further: Isn't it interesting that the article stated : "...there are some people born with weak immune systems or allergies, and even if they want to be vaccinated, they cannot be exposed to an otherwise harmless dose of a disease. These people depend on being shielded by herd immunity. Healthy people that opt out of vaccinations are contributing to the health decisions of others. Their freedom is, to an extent, infringing on the freedoms of others." REALLY? INFRINGE on others' freedom? So a parent who chooses to not vaccinate is infringing, but the parent who doesn't restrict that child's activities to self- protect the 'weak immune system' child isn't infringing on others' rights to not have poisons, toxins, fetal/animal/synthetic/chemicals, etc., forced into their systems on a pre-mandated schedule? An unvaccinated child should be kept at home so the 'immune-issue' child can go out and play? What's good for the goose...? The US and Calif. had >91-92% immunity against measles when the Disney outbreak occurred, and as such had achieved its target of herd immunity. So, there should have been NO outbreak, right? And why did more vaccinated people get measles than unvaccinated?

            I guess they should stop ALL visitors from foreign countries, since their is no way to tell if they are carriers of a communicable disease. But, then, let's go ahead and build that southern wall, because we KNOW they are.

          2. Patty's Avatar Patty

            In response to TruthBeTold:

            In regard to those who came down with measles in the Disneyland outbreak:

            "Health officials have immunization records of 43 measles patients; 37 were unimmunized, one had only one shot, and five were fully immunized."


            "About 96 to 99 percent of people in the community need to be vaccinated against measles to effectively halt its spread. Because about 7 percent of people won't get immunity from one dose of the vaccine, two doses are recommended in the U.S."


            Check your facts please.

        4. adam ingraham's Avatar adam ingraham

          i could not agree more...

        5. Gail's Avatar Gail

          Yes! I am totally with you. I never immunized my 3 children and they grew up just fine. Now my grandchildren are subjected to California law that they must be immunized. My question is, why are there 3 times more vaccines now? They are subjected to as many as 3 vaccines during one office visit, starting during the first month of life! The Pharma is making big money off of this. I believe that if we eat organic and have a healthy diet of fresh foods and food supplements, our immune systems should be strong enough to fend off illnesses. Not to mention that we should know exactly what is in each vaccine. I have seen some of the ingredients and it's enough to make me barf!

          1. Glenn Geist's Avatar Glenn Geist

            Extrapolating from tiny samples to universal principals is a process that deludes the world. I used to drag race on public roads and I never got hurt -- so it's OK for you to do that right?

            Seriously, this is not a valid or intelligent argument. You're probably not old enough to remember the epidemics that used to ravage the world before vaccination.

        6. Peter Chappell's Avatar Peter Chappell

          It is exactly that kind of self centred Neanderthal thinking that will perhaps will spell the end of humanity. Vaccinate your children and spare us Your pious thoughts on government controls

      2. Karen Polvinale's Avatar Karen Polvinale

        Bruce Wesley, very well-said. There are actually a lot of cases of children being harmed, one just died, by vaccinations. The fact that the vaccine makers can't be sued should tell you a lot. Throw enough money at a situation and you can get whatever outcome you want. I would not let my kids be vaccinated.

        1. Chris's Avatar Chris

          A healthy 17 year old in Minnesota died last flu season from getting the flu. She had her head laying on her mothers lap and stooped breathing....never got the flu shot. What's your point?

        2. Ric Basen's Avatar Ric Basen

          If you search enough, you'll find cases where someone has died of almost anything you want to be against. People have died from taking an aspirin and from coffee or fish or almost any thing you can put in your body. It does not mean that all of that should be avoided. How many of you have seen kids in iron lungs from polio? Other than pictures of that.. most have never seen it... Why? Because of a vaccine. Yes a few died from the vaccine.. but millions are alive today because of that same vaccine. If you want facts.. go to a real source.. ... they will answer questions from both sides with real facts .. not hype.

      3. T's Avatar T

        As the saying goes, do not just ask what the evidence is, also ask WHOSE evidence it is and what the 'research' was trying to prove/support/disprove! Meaning, of course, that the source of the 'evidence' (who funded it, and how the research question was asked, for instance). Agree with you Bruce. Just look at the health community outcry when a TX city mandated Gardasil for teenaged school girls. Look how fast that public and health community reaction was, as well.

        1. randy's Avatar randy

          my opinion is this you should not be forced to vaccinate your child ! yes some may be saved by it yet some may die or be disabled from it so you shouldn't be forced to take the chance . if vacinatio s are so good the. those who want to should get them to protect themselves and stop worrying about what others do

    3. Catherine B Owen's Avatar Catherine B Owen


    4. Mari Failing's Avatar Mari Failing

      I absolutetly agree that children should be vaccinated. Diseases like polio and TB were non existent in US when it was required. Now these are sneaking back into our society. The parents of children that contract these diseases will be wishing they'd gotten their child vaccinated. Both are horrible and so very hard on the child.

      1. Susan's Avatar Susan

        We do not vaccinate for TB in this country and the oral polio vaccine was stopped because it was spreading polio.

        The whooping couch vaccine as currently formulated, allows vaccinated individuals to carry and spread the disease without symptoms, which does not happen with those who get the disease and get immunity in a natural way.

        1. Chris's Avatar Chris

          I had it from a 7 week old boy who died from it. Natural immunity lasts as long as a vaccine.

        2. Ric Basen's Avatar Ric Basen

          Actually, Susan they are still vaccinating children against those diseases. If we dont, you'll be seeing millions of children dying from them. Polio is nothing to play around with. You can not get a disease from a dead virus..which is what is used in vaccines. Please check the WHO for real facts .

      2. nitro MT's Avatar nitro MT

        It's more of an immigration issue but just ignore that and all the diseased travelers who come here by air every day. The require our children get about 40 shots before they hit 6 years old, yet they don't require any proof of health to enter the states. Brilliant! While we're at it, lets ignore the shedding of the disease by the vaccinations administered. Don't read the warnings on the pamphlet inside every box. Having to keep your kids locked down for days or weeks while the vaccination sheds would be a terrible inconvenience for parents.

        1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

          Excellent points, nitro

    5. Tammy's Avatar Tammy

      Agreed. If you don't want your child(ren) vaccinated, please keep them at home and indoors. There is enough going on in this world without having to deal with soneones else's sick child. I do childcare and handle newborns to 12 years old. To think you (them) have the audacity to want to bring a suck child around babies and think its ok is disgusting.

      1. T's Avatar T

        Your statements are incongruent.

        Also, vaccinated does NOT equal well (and certainly still allows a person to be a carrier, or expose others to a fomite). And, unvaccinated does NOT equal sick.

        It is your responsibility to disallow a sick child from entering the child-care environment, should a parent actually bring a sick child.

        1. Adrian's Avatar Adrian

          I agree but unvaccinated does equal vulnerable

          1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

            If unvaccinated = vulnerable, then would not vaccinated =invulnerable? If not, what is the point of vaccination. If so, what is the point of trying to force it on those who do not wish it?

          2. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

            Hey, Moderators, I need to re-write this.

            John Owens Your comment is awaiting moderation. March 6, 2019 at 10:13 am If unvaccinated = vulnerable, then would vaccinated =invulnerable? If not, what is the point of vaccination. If so, what is the point of trying to force it on those who do not wish it?

      2. nitro MT's Avatar nitro MT

        I thought you immunized your kids so that they are immune from healthy, strong, smart kids like mine who are never sick? What are you afraid of if you have your shots? My kids making your kids look weak or dumb?

    6. Sir William the fearless's Avatar Sir William the fearless

      I totally agree with vaccinations as well. We have them for a reason so as not to spread fatal diseases and plagues. As we have had in past centuries they have caused nothing but death and destruction. Those who do not wish to vaccinate perhaps need to be placed on Lepers Island with those who have no hope.

      1. nitro MT's Avatar nitro MT

        Wow! You would have made a great SS soldier.

      2. Kathleen's Avatar Kathleen

        DPT vaccinated children had higher mortality in this study:

    7. Susan's Avatar Susan

      Wow, sound really informed on this issue. Maybe you could link to the research you have read that shows that vaccines are safe and effective? I would really like to see it.

      1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

        Good one, Susan! I think you got him, there.

    8. Lea Weisenbach's Avatar Lea Weisenbach

      Well in can understand being unsure about vaccination. As a parent I worry about the side effects and yes the government dose not give us all the facts. But I'm at an age that I had two neighbor's that have passed or had to live with the ending results of Polo. So it's a double edge sword. But I did follow though with the vaccines. I just really spread them out. But the one thing that gets to be is the way someone can do what ever they want and hide behind religion. I think as a whole..we have a real problem with how this country has been ruled in the past...It's to black and white and no reason and's all in how we think.. We think black and white ..We need to think of ourselves as a whole...Don't need to confuse's not talking race.

    9. Minister SC's Avatar Minister SC

      As someone who has a friend who was in her first trimester when she was accidentally exposed to German measles by coming into contact with an unvaccinated child (her child was born deaf), I agree the notion that, "Children should be protect them[selves and]...other[s]...." While I respect individual rights, as well as an individual's right to make decisions that solely affect him/her, vaccinations protect the many. Therefore, I also agree with Zeke's position: "Much as we do not like federal mandates, sometimes the State must act to protect it’s citizens from damaging themselves or others."

    10. Kiki's Avatar Kiki

      "There is excellent science supporting the efficacy and safety of vaccines..." You wouldn't happen to have a double blind study using a placebo on the safety and efficacy of vaccines kicking around would you? You know, the gold standard of safety and efficacy? That would be some excellent science. So would a study on the overall health of vaccinated vs non vaccinated. You're spewing dogma, not science Zeke.

      1. nitro MT's Avatar nitro MT

        While we're at it, how about a study of the base materials used instead of the active ingredients? You know, the metal based carriers!

      2. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

        Great point, Kiki.

    11. Regina's Avatar Regina

      It's times like this we should all be asking ourselves,what would our Lord do.He never turned anyone away who needed help.But these people have to want help to receive it.Our Lord is comeing soon,I know he is dispointed In how we the people are living,but it's up to us to do what is right.We need to look inside our selfs,what do we see.?

    12. Yashi's Avatar Yashi

      first, Immunity is a False god. Its a religion because people have faith that the sacred act of Vaccinating against disease will prevent death. Most people would say, medicine prevents death and vaccines are medicine, however vaccines do, can and will kill a few children a year. These deaths are for the greater good they say as an offering to the false god of immunity. So then they are now saying that if my son is not vaccinated that their false god of immunity will remove the immunity of the community because my sons not vaccinated? Community Immunity is known in Religious Language as COLLECTIVE SALVATION. That is to say, if everyone is not vaccinated the false god of immunity will remove the protection against death and disease from EVERYONE. This Ethos and Dogma is widely believed to be truth. I will not offer my son as a sacrifice on the alter of vaccination as worship to the false god of Immunity for your collective salvation.

      1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

        If their vaccines work, then an unvaccinated child should present no threat to the vaccinated ones. Seems the vaccine-believers are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

    13. seth gross's Avatar seth gross

      How can you be so sure vaccines work as intended and are safe?

    14. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

      If the STATE is so interested in protecting its citizens, it should control immigration and foreign travel by citizens and prevent demonstrators from blocking traffic. A "legitimate" vaccination is when a parent decides that it is legitimate. The STATE does not and shall not have control over the children of its citizens, regardless of what people like you who think you know better than the parents, say. The "excellent" science is tainted and biased in favor of the government, CDC, and big pharma, due to conflict of interest. The government is in favor of population control without appearing to be population control, and big pharma only wants big money. Neither of them cares about citizens or children.

      1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

        If they cared, they would teach against sexual promiscuity and eating raw foods.

    15. Angel's Avatar Angel

      Please show us 1 efficacy study and 1 safety study done on every synergistic ingredient in a single pediatricians visit. You won't because they don't exist. Herd Immunity is a term misused in reference to vaccination programs. It refers to when a population has acquired cell mediated lifetime immunity because they have contracted a germ en masse. Vaccination programs cannot make this claim. Vaccines are failing to provide protection to highly vaccinated populations.

  1. Anni's Avatar Anni

    Zeke, I suggest You research this more thoroughly... Vaccines in USA come with heavy metal toxicity ( thimerosal is mercury ) the main source of many hard to heal diseases today since the 20th century. I suggest You research this much more to become educated about both sides before subjected it to an innocent :+)

    1. Rick's Avatar Rick

      "Hard to heal diseases" like Polio?? Pretty sure that vaccines aren't causing that, but preventing it. The cause of resistant strains is in part natural selection (easily killed bacteria are killed off and stronger ones survive) and everyone rushing to the doctor for antibiotics to cure a cold and then not using the entire prescription, so the bacteria is exposed to the toxic substance but not killed. .It's just like if you are exposed to a venom repeatedly but not killed. You develop an immunity. Just like humans evolve and become more resistant to normal causes of our death, so do viruses and bacteria. Mercury isn't doing it. You actually are the one who needs to become more educated on the subject.

      1. Bruce Wesley's Avatar Bruce Wesley

        No Rick. Hard to heal diseases like mercury poisoning. It is extremely difficult for bodies to dispose of heavy metals. They are either pushed out through the skin, causing no end of skin issues, and setting up the right environment for melanoma, or they are absorbed into fats and cells, making the cells malfunction.

        If our government would be show as much dedication to public health as they do to campaign contributions, then thimersol would be illegal in this country like it is in the countries that care about their people. THEN we could trust the vaccines. Until then, bravo to the parents that are willing to stand against contrived "science" for the protection of their children.

        1. Chris's Avatar Chris

          The multi-does vials have preservatives in them. The single dose does not. Request single dose vials if that is your worry.

          Do you NOT eat fish, tuna, or sea food? The amounts in these foods are more than an immunization.

          1. Larry's Avatar Larry

            Chris, You will find (if you already haven't) that trying to discuss facts with these conspiracy nuts is like trying to teach a pig to sing; it doesn't work and and only gives pigs more the squeal about.

          2. nitro MT's Avatar nitro MT

            All use aluminum or mercury. Pick your poison. Do you inject tuna? What percent of available metals is tuna is absorbed in the stomach. This is basic knowledge. Injections do not have a filter like our digestive system does. But, nice try Einstein.

          3. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

            Try, "semi-literate liberal."

        2. Glenn Geist's Avatar Glenn Geist

          And you certainty that there is enough mercury in vaccines to cause anything remotely like what you're talking about is based on what? SInce it's been demonstrated that there has been no increase and at them most there are only microscopic traces I have to wonder why these certainties persist. Ther4e would have to be a strong correlation between Tuna and Autism if what you say weren't hokum - and there isn't. Give it up.

          1. Glenn Geist's Avatar Glenn Geist

            And I should add that Mercury in Thimerosal is not the compound that is difficult to excrete unlike that which is in fish. and it's there in minuscule quantities. There is simply no data supporting the danger of vaccines at any level exceeding that of crossing the street. Passionate as these people are the arguments are invalid, fallacious and factually false.

          2. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

            So, they use HEALTHY mercury in the vaccines...

          3. Angel's Avatar Angel


          4. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

            Thank you, Angel. That is a good article, and if all these fake science-believers would read it, it should at least cause them to doubt their indoctrination to some degree.

    2. Didda's Avatar Didda

      You really, really need to learn about the difference between an element, and a compound.

  1. Rt Rev Dr N's Avatar Rt Rev Dr N

    It is sad really that their belief's get in the way of protecting their children from severe illness but, one has to respect everyone's belief, their thoughts and ideas. I just hope and pray for the child's sake that they do not contract any of these illnesses which could have been prevented.

    1. Glenn Geist's Avatar Glenn Geist

      To respect a person is one thing, to respect their misstatements of fact is quite another. I have no obligation to honor the idea that witches cause disease or that the world is flat and I do feel an obligation to stop the spread of lies that affect public health.

      1. Chris's Avatar Chris

        Hahaha. It is to laugh.

  1. Tom's Avatar Tom

    If I could have a time machine to take these anti-vaccinators to my street during the polio epidemic I experienced as a child. That horrid disease went down our street like a tornado, Indiscriminatory touching homes on both sides of the street at random. My home was thankfully spared. The little girl next door was not and spent the remaining months of her life in a iron lung. Many of you are too young to even know what an iron lung is and I hope you will look up images of them on the net. One day father came home in the middle of the day, gathered us all up and took us to the local fire house. There, in a ragged line, were all my neighbors. Some smiling, some praying, and mostly crying. We were about to be given the first of the newly created polio vaccines. I realized at that moment that I had dodged the bullet. I was not going to be like my little next door neighbor. A vaccination had given me another chance at this glorious thing we call life. In those days there were no vaccinations for things like measles, mumps, whooping cough or chicken pox. I had them all and survived by the Grace of God with only poor eyesight as a result of the measles (rubella). Then those vaccinations become available and we all rejoiced. Parents, be comforted by the idea that God just may have had a big hand in the creation of these life saving shots. Stay well, all, stay well

    1. Sue Nicholai's Avatar Sue Nicholai

      when people are in opposition to vaccines they are thinking of the potential damage to their child,(any medical intervention can affect some adversely)some people are willing to take the chance,While others are thinking about the whole.I do know some adults who as infants became sick after being vaccinated and now a mentally reterd due to the damage, I think this needs to be an individual choice of the parents. More than likely we will see a resurgence in diseases due to illegal and mass reguges from other contries who don't vaccinate.Being vaccinated does prevent you from getting a disease but make it easier for yopur body to deal with it because of some it being in your blood. White people about decimated many indian tribes because they brought diseases from other places

      1. Glenn Geist's Avatar Glenn Geist

        Wouldn't want to be "reterd" would we. Perhaps I could call the Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy a bit ignorant if not actually "Reterded."

        Sequence does not demonstrate causation, OK?

  1. rfox44's Avatar rfox44

    How dreadful, exempt because of a superstitious delusion.

  1. Pastor P.'s Avatar Pastor P.

    This is an issue which transcends "Religious Freedom". If a greater good can be served by 'rendering unto Cesar', then shouldn't we? For me this is where the slippery slope begins. Freedom of one becomes dangerous when it impinges on another's Rights.

    1. wim's Avatar wim

      It seems Americans are increasingly polarized and unwilling to allow dissent of opinion. We each are reposible for our own choices. Demanding others adopt our personal preferences by projecting our personal fears creating those opinions is a form of bullying. I personally don't believe in using vaccines, especially for non-life threatening diseases, which are self limiting and mostly annoying.As for more serious diseases, I support personal freedom. If you spend a few hours in deep research (checking citation sources) -on this topic, you will findmany reasons to distrust the drug companies products. Field testing various vaccs in Africa rrsultrd in a quick cover-up of horrific harms to neurological systems of acertain village's children by the Gates Foundation, for instance. I am against animsl testing, and deeply against human testing. In amy case, please research the topic and meanwhile consider accepting that there is seldom only one way to solve a problem, including disease control. 1 remove carpets from public spaces, they are germ collectors 2 use full -spectrum lightbulbs which kill mivrobes and viruses 3 remove street shoes at the entry of your home, the soles of shoes carry immense number of pathogens. 4 after exposure to ppl who are infected w a cold etc, clean your nasal passages with a mild saline or herbal cleansing mist. Nasal passages provide a perfect environment for infections to establish. Those are simple practices which will reduce getting flu and colds without subjecting your entire . body to injected pathogens in nebulous solution. Thx for the conversation.

    2. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

      Religious Freedom is a Civil Right and therefore shall not be "transcended". You use that word like it's some kind of mandate from a heathen god.

  1. Tim's Avatar Tim

    Those that don't want to vaccinate there children on some idealogical grounds need to make a decision about whether the want to be a part of this society or not. In Western society we vaccinate our children as part of a responsibility to the rest of society as well as a way of protecting our children. Vaccination works only when enough members of the society are immunised to stop the infection of those that are not, this means 90% plus need to be immunised to protect those that cannot be immunised for GENUINE medical reasons. The FACTS about vaccination are that there are NO poisons or heavy metals in vaccines. There is a remote chance of having a bad immune redaction to vaccines which can cause dangerous problems but the odds of this happening are always dramatically lower than the odds of your child dying from the disease because they were not vaccinated. By choosing not to vaccinate your child you are not only endangering your child you are endangering the children of those people whose children can not be vaccinated for genuine medical reasons. As for other claims made by the anti-vaccination lobby about connections to Autism etc. these claims have been proven to be completely false over and over. So the situation is simple if you don't want to vaccinate your kids on idealogical grounds then LEAVE go and live in a third world country that does not vaccinate and watch your children suffer and die from preventable disease. If you don't want to do that then vaccinate your kids and do the right thing for your children and the children of others.

    1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

      Those who want to FORCE people to vaccinate need to make a decision about whether they want to be a part of this society. You have it backwards, Tim. The United States Constitution is about as little government as we can get by with, not about the totalitarian nanny-state big brother monstrosity you advocate.

  1. Ervin Kosch's Avatar Ervin Kosch

    Should we vacinate? Yes, but not the way we're doing it now. We're injecting multiple vacines in a single concentrated doses at younger and younger ages. They can overwhelm a child's system causing an alergic reaction or super immunity response that can damage a child's body.The vacines need to be seperated out into individual vacines (not 3 and 4 at a time) and started at 2 years old, perferably at 3 years old. Any younger then that and thier immune systems may over react the shock that these forgien bodies can cause.

    1. Didda's Avatar Didda

      Please learn about how we have advanced vaccine science, and that there is actually less 'stuff' in all of the current vaccines combined than just one of a decades old vaccine. We are not overwhelming a child's system.

      1. Glenn Geist's Avatar Glenn Geist

        Never underestimate the power of the wish to believe. No amount of information is enough to overcome it. Lies are the most persistent life form in the Universe.

        The idea that we are less healthy than previous generations is one of those lies you can't kill no matter how much longer we live and bigger we are. I can make a better argument for us getting more stupid and less receptive to reality than I can for all these non-existent "toxins" I can make a better arguments for evil spirits and witches.

    2. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

      If you're really interested in immunizing children, you should be advocating that birthing mothers nurse their babies. Haven't seen anything here about that.

  1. bender's Avatar bender

    Science über alles

  1. Lee Batchelor's Avatar Lee Batchelor

    It's true that a lot of people simply do not trust science these days. I believe the lack of trust is due to extreme media coverage--that is--every detail of every incidence is right at our finger tips. People are making judgments about science under conditions they can't trust. And yes, science has let us all down at some points in history. Look at the wonder drug, Thalidomide, which was used for preventing nausea during pregnancy. It was a disaster with thousands of babies born with deformities. Yes, we've been wrong! I'll go with the odds. When you're vaccinated against disease A, you won't get disease A, or least it will be a short lived infection with little consequences.

    I just finished reading a book about the great influenza epidemic in the post WWI era. Jump in a time machine and ask anyone back then if they would like a vaccine against influenza. No one really knows what the death toll was, but estimates vary form 40 to 100 million world wide, and guess what--the highest death toll was among the young and healthiest age group, 18 to 35 years if memory serves. The book also states that they developed a vaccine against meningitis in 1917. After that, the death rate from meningitis was 7 percent. With today's advances in antibiotics, the death rate is 25 percent because we favor antibiotics over vaccines (in this case).

    Life is a game of chance. Vaccines work, and I'll certainly take my chances with them over hysteria or media hype.

  1. Larry's Avatar Larry

    I appreciate the ULC staying out of politics. The anti-vaxxers are like the climate deniers, but they are trying to use religion in their quest to put their irrational beliefs ahead of the common good, and the argument has nothing to do with religion.

    1. Glenn Geist's Avatar Glenn Geist

      Good advice sir.

    2. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

      oh yes, semi-literate liberal, you are really staying out of politics... You are hooked on mainstream Kool-Aid. A lemming. I'm sorry. You think YOUR beliefs are rational? "Every way of a man is right in his own eyes." You lumped two big issues together, vaccines and climate, pretty much stating that anyone who doesn't follow the TREND is irrational. You don't see anything potentially wrong with that? Do you really think that people who follow trends are more rational than those who do not? That is insane.

  1. Vernon Simpkins's Avatar Vernon Simpkins

    If that child go to public school he or she should be vaccinated so they do not affect any other children

  1. Steven J Frey's Avatar Steven J Frey

    I have no objection to a parent refusing to have their child immunized. However, immunization not only protects the child, but keeps that child from infecting all of the children around them. That is why schools require it. If a child is not immunized, they need to be home schooled, or perhaps create an immunization and peanut free school.

    1. Susan's Avatar Susan

      Could you please explain to me how other preschoolers and kindergartners need to be protected from an STD that requires blood to blood contact to transmit and is gotten through shared needles and unprotected sex?

      1. Chris's Avatar Chris

        What immunization is given for this may I ask?

  1. Shen's Avatar Shen

    As with the recent issue of Religious "law" versus Governmental law in the Kim Davis case, Our Nation is a secular one, we are founded upon the separation of Church and State and while various forces have been fighting that ideal for hundreds of years, I must lend my voice to that of Reason and Science. It is foolishness to favor Faith, superstition or the "Will of Insert Deity here" when addressing issues of public health. No matter what Faith you follow, most if not all reflect some form of humanity being gifted with Talents and being told to use those Talents, to better ourselves and our World with our choices. Are we perfect? No. Do we make mistakes? Yes. However, I would much rather take my chances with methods based in logic, reason and Scientific inquiry, works reviewed and assessed by hundreds if not thousands of educated minds, each seeking to the ideal of improving the quality of life for all mankind than to allow a single opinion of any Dogmatic leader based not in understanding, but in rote repetition of a tradition from a bygone era where millions died needlessly due to wallowing in filth and ignorance.

    Let us not bring back the Dark Ages, shall we?

    1. Susan's Avatar Susan

      How much actual research have you done to verify the safety and efficacy of the current vaccine protocol?

      How many peer reviewed studies have you read and analyzed? Do you know who funded them? Can you link them here?

      How much study have you done regarding the epidemics said to have been stopped by vaccines?

      If you have not done that research, then you are not following science and reason. Instead, you are following group think and government/corporate propaganda.

      1. Chris's Avatar Chris

        Same to you Susan. I find it very diffult to believe scientists are evil and for profit only.

    2. Shirley Harrison's Avatar Shirley Harrison

      I have lived in Africa where it is hard to get people vaccinated. I was there in the middle of a polio epidemic. My goodness I can not believe there are those among us who do not believe in this essential public health issue. Yes all people must be vaccinated.

    3. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

      A "single opinion of any Dogmatic leader based not in understanding?" "Bygone era where millions died needlessly due to wallowing in filth and ignorance?" "Dark Ages?" HOW ABOUT DIALING BACK THE HYPERBOLE, Shen?

      If you believe it foolishness to favor Faith, perhaps you think people should not practice sexual promiscuity, in order to BE HEALTHY by not exposing themselves to viral infections. SCIENCE has clearly shown that promiscuity is the single largest contributor to STDs.

      I'm sure you preach against Mohammedism also, since Mohammed (as preached by his modern-day disciples) is a "Dogmatic leader based not in understanding." There is NOTHING scientific about Islamic fundamentalism.

      Are you preaching that women should nurse their babies? Surely science has taught us that this is healthier than any other diet for babies.

  1. Dr G's Avatar Dr G

    If any of the repliers are in the health care field and are appalled at the increasing numbers of not only autistic but brain damaged and family damaged lifestyles that are a direct result of DPT injections, and the rising costs put on families by Big Pharma. Now the state of Montana is introducing(Oct 1 ) MANDATORY chickenpox vaccine. Which I certainly do not agree with and have already filed with my kids schools that they are not to be vaccinated for a disease, for which we (our local community)had a block party. All of the kids in the neighborhood came over and we got through it(the POX) in a week. Oatmeal baths and not one medical intervention. These kids now have God's natural immunity and are protected. Not good enough for the state of Montana, If your child has no medical information of being examined or treated by NP DO MD RN, they will need to have an expensive blood test to prove that the parents aren't lying. God made us perfect. "Science is funded by big Pharma, please do the math. It is not about protection, it is about money. Tell the truth. Don't Get stuck

    1. Chris's Avatar Chris

      They are not protected agains Shingles, a debilitating disease that affects adults, mainly elderly.

    2. Larry's Avatar Larry

      Dr G - not really a doc, huh? Apparently, you don't know how to read ALL of the peer-reviewed studies that have found no link between vaccines and autism. The vaccines that HAVE caused problems (the very, very, very few) have been caught within a year and stopped or fixed.

      You must think very little of your 'profession' (whatever your real one is - probably bartending or oil rig worker.)

      1. Stan Grogg's Avatar Stan Grogg

        I'm confused. We are saying the same thing. Be wise, immunize.

    3. Lee Batchelor's Avatar Lee Batchelor

      I doubt Dr G is an M.D. And to quote his or her on words:

      "Which I certainly do not agree with and have already filed with my kids schools that they are not to be vaccinated for a disease, for which we (our local community)had a block party. All of the kids in the neighborhood came over and we got through it(the POX) in a week. Oatmeal baths and not one medical intervention."

      So, you had a block party and gave all the kids an oatmeal bath who had chicken pox? Did I get this right? Sounds like snake oil to me. I'm only a medical lab tech, however, I know enough about pathology to tell you oatmeal baths DO NOT cure anything. Perhaps the extra heat from the bath helped boost the body temperature slightly to make it even more difficult for the virus to survive, however, I think that would be reckless because you could raise the body temperature too high, which could result in convulsions. I'm sure any M.D. would agree with my analysis. What would have happened if one of the children died (God forbid)? I refuse to play Russian Roulette with my kids' health.

      Leave medicine to the experts :).

    4. Chris's Avatar Chris

      I actually work in the medical field on the nursing staff in pediatrics. I can tell you that plenty of generations have grown into happy healthy immunized adults. The only deaths have been from congenital disease and from diseases that were preventable from immunizations.

      1. T's Avatar T

        CNA, MA, LPN/LVN? There is a lot of latitude in that statement. Perhaps you would be so kind as to identify the credential and formal education associated with your work.

        1. Chris's Avatar Chris

          What difference does it make? I have SEEN, with my own eyes, exactly how it goes....first hand.....for almost 20 years.

          But seeing you NEED credentials, here you go: CMA with AAMA Certified x-ray operator Certified in phlebotomy Certified in urine drug and alcohol testing Certified in Occupational hearing testing I have an additional 2 years of college and have been a college instructor. I am also a cake decorator and an ordained minister. Hopefully, my credentials are good enough for what I see.

          1. T's Avatar T

            Not hardly. It is common knowledge that children learn what they live. That is no different from any venue, where workers learn from that in which they work and by those from whom they are taught. Towing the party line is what hospitals and the staff are required to do.

  1. Kris Lindemann's Avatar Kris Lindemann

    The bigger picture here involves the shift needed to optimal health and robust wellness instead of a fear based potential illness paradigm. Everyone should have the choice over what goes into their body. There is much opportunity for healing and growth here on many levels of the individual body and the collective at large.

  1. Stan Grogg's Avatar Stan Grogg

    As a pediatrician, I am a strong advocate for all FDA vaccinations. I have been part of vaccine research studies and know about the stringent reviews before vaccines are approved. They are very safe and efficacious. I wish parents would review evidence based studies and stop using University of Google as their resource for anti-vaccine prigrams. Let's protect everyone from vaccine preventable diseases, be wise and immunize. SEG

    1. Lee Batchelor's Avatar Lee Batchelor

      Amen to that, Dr. Stan! People--stop relying on junk science to protect your loved ones. Junk science doesn't have to stay awake at night mourning the loss of a child who could have lived a long life thanks to vaccinations.

      Good point about U of Google too! Anyone can post crap on the Internet and be believable. In the final analysis, I rely on a good heart to heart with my family M.D. He's a good man who for 40 years has stuck with quality science, and I'm 62 and still kicking :).

      • Lee B. (Medical Lab Technologist)
    2. Susan's Avatar Susan

      Right arm! Extremely safe! Well, unless you don't like Gullaine-Barré. Or encephalitis. Or what is that.....demyelinating injury. Or severe cognitive injuries. Or blindness.

      Reading about the cases in the vaccine injury court is most instructive. You should try it some time.

      Also check out those inserts for the vaccines you are handing out with assurances about how safe they are.

      1. Chris's Avatar Chris

        More people DIE from these diseases than harmed from the vaccination. Susan, you are a very interesting individual.

    3. T's Avatar T

      Not really true. The Gardasil vaccine was well known during clinical trials to have the adverse effects that were harsh enough to create and become a public outcry in TX when there was a city mandate that soon was rescinded. It is also a fact that vast majority of cervical HPV clears itself within 18 months. That only 3% of the 2 so-named 'high risk HPV' types become precancerous, and that there are >100 types of HPV. Even before the vaccine was released, yes the one that actually had the research (not generics that have no human clinical trials), the close-conference speaker who was engaged in the last phase of trial (human) advised prescribers that the research findings did not support widespread vaccination, nor did it support pre-adolescent vaccination. It did, though, support caution regarding the adverse effects that had been repeatedly observed. The link below provides a listing by age of what the government is recommending for children.

      49 vaccine doses by age 6! Many before the baby's neurological system is fully developed. Well before the brain is fully developed, as well.

      Pediatric practices make hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars/year on vaccine revenue, even when the vaccines are provided by the health department at no cost, hundreds of thousands of dollars on 'administration' (injection) fees. That is reason behind changing from 5-in-1 or 6-in-1, etc,, vaccines, as well. The administration fee, reimbursed by insurances, Medicaid (Public Aid), etc., run from around $4-12 (public aid) to $32 PER INJECTION. 4 injections? 4 x $32= $128 extra income for that 'wellness' visit. That of, course, doesn't include the 400%+ markup on the vaccines that they do buy (minimum markup in healthcare offices) and sell. They do not give the vaccines, a $7.50/hour aide does. Compare that to the actual office visit fee of $24-32/visit (Public Aid) to about $55- 70.

      One pediatrician told me that, at any given time, his vaccine refrigerator has $50,000 of product (his cost), and that recommending every vaccine on the market makes a huge ( ~$2 million) profit for his 3 provider practice.

      Don't think for a minute it is not significantly about profit. And a review is not the same as a double-blind human clinical trial on a large scale. Flu vaccine, for instance, is a crapshoot every year. There are no human trials for the latest purportedly risky strain. They are based on the first vaccine trial decades ago.... but I guarantee you that when you read the ingredients list, they are not the exact same ingredients used in the original trials (I have looked). And the sourced ingredients for some vaccines are neither pure nor tested.

      But, more eerily, if a certified pediatrician does not 'tow the party line' of their certifying board (American Assoc of Pediatrics), they risk not being recertified by that board. Almost a death-knell to their hospital privileges in most metropolitan regions, and also to their professorships and lucrative speaking engagements at conferences and for drug companies.

      People wouldn't mind if they were told the TRUTH, the WHOLE TRUTH, and NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. No slant, no bias, no elimination of results that didn't fit with what the researcher was trying to prove for the government or the sponsor. It is not what the public is getting, and not what the FDA or CDC is getting, either.

      AMA is not the only culprit here, ADA is just as bad. And the profit follows the sheep that follow the leaders.

  1. HMK's Avatar HMK

    Media hype, from what I've seen, has been extraordinary attention paid to very isolated outbreaks of so called preventable diseases, such as the recent measles "epidemic" (what counts as an epidemic? 189 people?) That, and a great deal of media play and advertisement of flu vaccines, offered in every drug store, even offering discounts on your purchase if you get a shot. Media "hype" is nearly exclusively pro-pharmaceutical. In addition, 99% of people in this country follow their doctor's recommendations for medications and shots.

    Surely there are extreme views in all camps. However, Most people I hear talking about vaccine concerns are neither worried from a religious standpoint (fetal cells, blood sanctity, etc) nor "hysterical", nor rejecting vaccines outright: Rather, they wonder about the cumulative effect of so many immune stimulants, they wonder about the ingredients, they wonder if there is a way to make vaccines safer and more individually scheduled, they wonder if vaccines play a PART in the many chronic diseases that are on the rise in children (diabetes, cancer, allergic disorders, autism spectrum disorders, etc.), for reasons of immune system overstimulation, chemical exposure (aluminum, mercury, other adjuvants etc.), or some unknown mechanism. Or, they have children with documented vaccine damage, and hesitate to expose their other children to the vaccine that caused the damage in the first child, or perhaps any vaccines, until they better understand how and why their injured child had a bad reaction. Or, they are scientists who try again and again to get independent funding for safety studies or research into alternative modes of delivering immunization, and can't for the life of them break into a very solidified and somewhat incestuous system, such that it is - one in which corporations, government agencies, and even universities are so inextricably linked by a revolving door of personnel and a thick web of financial interest that the real possibility of serious conflict of interest looms large.

    Vaccines work to at least some percentage to prevent the manifestation of diseases they are created for. Some are far more effective than others, judging from the CDC's website. One can continue to explore whether the vaccines as administered in the current mandated schedule are indeed resulting in overall improvement of the health of the populace on all fronts. There are risk/benefit ratios to be determined, there are large epidemiological studies to be undertaken; but after all, whether the vaccines WORK is not what is at debate.

    What is up for debate here is whether citizens should have the right to choose whether to subject themselves and their family to a medical procedure that has both potential benefits and risks for themselves individually, and also has an impact on their community.

    Science Uber Alles? - Yes. TRUE science. Disinterested peer review. Independent third party checking of data, and the conclusions drawn from it. Continual inquiry in the service of human compassion. How can we continually do no harm? How can we alleviate the most suffering? How can we help the most people, and continually reduce, and then eliminate, any harm to those who are not helped? Asking the NEXT question, not resting on the laurels of a well known and lucrative discovery. Saying "We discovered this principle, developed this therapy - now, how can we make it even less harmful and more helpful?" Being willing to prove oneself wrong through further scientific inquiry. Being willing to continually reevaluate in light of a constantly changing world and populace Being willing to live in uncertainty on the path to knowledge. Being willing to continually seek knowledge in the pursuit of truth. Scientific inquiry is performed by human beings, we are fallible, and must be checked by other scientists who aren't gaining anything from the results of the study.

    That's the kind of science we need, in this, and every, debate.

    Much of what passes for "science" in the media is just the latest study or incident that can get a sensational response, often oversimplified or misrepresented contextually. Or we hear broad "studies" from cherry picked metadata that make a good sound bite.("Tomatoes contain lycopene, lycopene is good for you=pizza is good for you!") Or, advertisements drumming up insecurities and fear as they advertise drugs, in the name of education. We are often treated to mouthpieces of corporations with letters of education after their names that assure us that whatever they are doing to the world is nothing to worry about. This is the kind of thing that leads people to mistrust "science" - when really, that kind of thing, of course, isn't science at all.

    I hope that good faith discussions are encouraged, and that research is pushed to the forefront to find the very best ways to protect both the long term health of all people AND the prime agency of the individual to decide his/her fate and that of her family when it comes to medical matters. It is a razors edge to walk, but I think that we here, and I hope in our nation and world at large, have the commitment to compassion, truth, and the health of our children to walk it.

    1. Larry's Avatar Larry

      HMK - perhaps you should look more into the science of how diseases spread - and what makes up and epidemic. Of course, since your mom got you a polio vaccine, you never got polio - and you never got the opportunity to transmit it to others. How sad for you, huh?

      1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

        You don't know if the polio vaccine prevented polio or not. That can never be proven.

      2. keithmcwilliams's Avatar keithmcwilliams

        We are using the electrobox and it is beating Virus and Bacteria this is so amazing

  1. Reverend Robert's Avatar Reverend Robert

    Vaccines are like seat belts, air bags and child safety seats in vehicles. They have been mandated by Government, after research, development and stringent testing. If my "religious " beliefs allowed me to remove all these, would you want your children to car pool with me? That's what I thought!

  1. Jim Stoner's Avatar Jim Stoner

    "Most of us would agree that each person has the freedom of conscience to make decisions on any issue that affects them and not others." Since when? Smoking marijuana is against the law and it doesn't even hurt the user let alone someone else.


    I have never read anyone's notice of a list of world journeys showing the scientific proof; some people only write like some Madison avenue ad. Does anyone know that polio was on the wane until the vaccine was main lined into us kids of the early 60's? It's all about MONEY, and that's their bottom line. I wonder how many pro - vaccine people read any other sources or are they just good followers

    1. Chris's Avatar Chris

      I'm a follower. I don't like it when babies die from preventable diseases.
      Hold a dying baby once and explain to the parents why your ignorance is more important than their baby's life.

  1. Janet Stegman's Avatar Janet Stegman

    Nobody should have the right to force me to inject foreign substances into my blood stream. Or that of my child. Even if they are afraid.

    1. Chris's Avatar Chris

      Huh.....but it's ok for you to spread your germs that kill people......interesting....

      1. Lee Batchelor's Avatar Lee Batchelor

        Chris is right, Janet. You do have that right, but where your rights stop, mine begin. That is, if your unvaccinated child is responsible for spreading a deadly disease (God forbid), what are the moral and legal implications? Are you and the child guilty of some form of manslaughter? Could you live with yourself knowing you were responsible for your child's ultimate demise and possibly others? I have no answer but you need to think about that.

  1. Sharon Therkildsen's Avatar Sharon Therkildsen

    As a older person, I had measles, mumps, and chicken pox. I nearly died from the measles and missed almost two months of school. I was very sick and would not want to see any child go through the suffering I had and the anguish it caused my parents. These childhood diseases can have long term consequences. I hope and pray that parents will educate themselves about the possible outcomes of avoiding vaccinations along with the risks of vaccinations before making their decisions about their children's lives.

    Children can die from what we used to call "childhood illnesses." I think that label may have caused some to believe that theses illnesses were more of an inconvenience than a direct threat to their child's health.

  1. hannah's Avatar hannah

    I would like to clarify one point. Immunizations and vaccinations are not interchangeable terms. One can become immunized without a vaccination when their immune system is healthy and can overcome the intruding disease on its own. This is understandably a heated issue, because both sides feel they are doing the responsible thing. I respect parents who base their decision on the best research they have available. There are pros and cons to both sides -- as a parent you need to choose which of those you are willing to live with, and act accordingly. There are NO GUARANTEES, only best lifestyle choices. I believe it is irresponsible on both parties (vax or un-vax) to rely solely on a series of shots/no shots as the inroad to health. It's a lifestyle of nourishing our bodies, movement, healthy stress reduction, emotionally stable relationships, etc.

  1. Anita French's Avatar Anita French

    I agree with the reasons not to give government the power to mandate vaccines for anyone. If you wish to do it, do it. If you wish to not do it, then don't do it. This debate has been raging since my children were born - 26 and 16 years ago. I educatedly decided not to have injections of immunizations into my children. ESPECIALLY NOW, with evidence that the pharmaceutical industry is driven more by profits than public health, I think the people who are immaturely saying "keep your stupid kids at home if you do not buy into vaccinations" have the most scary of all the Eugenics-ish mindsets. I think it boils down to two different philosophies, all centered around either the trust of natural/alternative nutrition/diet natural based health science, as opposed to the ones who blindly trust the AMA and their Insurance/Pharmaceutical corporate alliances. I was fringe then, and I am considered fringe now by the latter. Any research into the shoddy history of medicine reveals that as wonderful and necessary as Science is, it is always shifting to the next new finding or truth. So, until we know it all (including cures and eradication of all diseases), then Medicine is hardly qualified to "claim" science as their own. ***Now ready to hear the usual middle-schoolboy onslaught of name-calling and pseudo-intellectual egotists out there that need to be right, no matter if they're wrong.

    1. Chris's Avatar Chris


  1. Randy McDonald's Avatar Randy McDonald

    Why is it that in our current society the few out weigh the many? Why should other children be exposed to a possibly life threatening disease just because someone decides they want to risk their own child? So many examples of similar situations where the words of Spock (Star Trek) seem to be reversed. he said in one scene "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one". Enough said!

  1. Kasey's Avatar Kasey

    Though, there certainly are a healthy barrage of reasons for debate over why to vaccinate or not to vaccinate, it comes down to me, the ability to be able to express ones own democratic options. Thus, when the federal government steps in to decide for a parent what is right then the parent's voice is taken away. I feel that there should be some advocacy for the child, too. Therefore, the matter becomes even more complicated. If there were not someone out there standing up for children, there would be no child labor laws or any protections. We have to keep in mind that not every child is the same nor is every situation the same!! Western world is full of medical practices that medicate and conduct surgery for nearly 9/10ths of all medical conditions. We are nation who practices in reactionary medicine not in holistic resolves. Though, this is changing some with amendments and changes to the design of health plans.

    1. Chris's Avatar Chris

      Then, explain how you feel about seat belt laws, and car seat laws.

  1. Rev. Keith A. Neal's Avatar Rev. Keith A. Neal

    I am 76 years old and had all the required shots as a small child. After the war there were no polio or mumps shot available. When I was 7 years old I got the mumps and could not see my father until I was over them. If he would have gotten the mumps I would not have my beautiful sister, as he would have become sterile.Is this what you want to happen. How about polio? It can kill you and it will cripple you. The shots in my opinion are necessary. I do not know why a family would take a chance on harming their child or another child that contacts a disease from your child.

    1. Lee Batchelor's Avatar Lee Batchelor

      Good comments Rev. Keith.

      Do mumps cause sterility 100 percent of the time (perhaps Dr. Stan can clarify)? Regardless, who wants to risk it?

      Further, not one person who objects to vaccines has told us how he or she would deal with the loss of life. Therein lies a truth you can't ignore. Would you rationalize it? Perhaps suppression would work. I'm not judging my fellow ULC members; I simply pose the question. And please don't hide behind the "It's God's plan" argument.

      1. Susan's Avatar Susan

        How about the permanent disability and loss of life from vaccines?

        Besides that, what exact loss of life are you referring to?

  1. JO-ANN's Avatar JO-ANN

    Parents should be able to have a choice, especially if based on religion.....if you choose TO NOT have your child vaccinated.....HOME least give the chances of your unvaccinated child causing a break out like Disneyland, this past a very low possibilty....thats a little of give and take.....enough of giving at this point.

  1. Susan's Avatar Susan

    The Disney oubtreak had nothing to do with unvaccinated schoolkids. It started with visiting foreigners most of those who got it were adults.

    1. JO-ANN's Avatar JO-ANN

      I had heard that it was a fact I had friends that were about to cancel thier trip to Disneyland but, her child was about to enter kingergarten and got all her they went anyway......that doesn't change my logic of why should parents that are for vaccinations be subject to those that are not in agreement with the data...but, you say you heard visiting foreigners...THATS EVEN WORSE....WHAT A NIGHTMARE SENERIO THAT IS....can't go anywhere...well...we can at least be sure our children are protected!!!! wow FOREIGNERS???? thats a bag of worms....... Psalm 56:3 WHAT TIME I AM AFRAID....I TRUST IN THEE....

  1. Paul Brimi's Avatar Paul Brimi

    I think of my great grandmother Lena and how she must be spinning in her grave at the thought that people would not vaccinate their children. I think of her often and of the 5 little graves and tombstones in the family plot of my great uncles and aunts who died before age 6 in the 1880's variously from diphtheria, whooping cough, measles and or mumps. I think of what this loss did to Lena. I think of her as she put the rope over the beam in the barn and how my great great aunt found her. I think you would have to be insane not to vaccinate your child. I think it would be an act of child abuse and neglect.

    1. T's Avatar T

      The deaths were from lack of germ knowledge, hygiene and appropriate and infectious precautions, which are well known now. Sick? Stay home! Kid sick? Keep them home. Under the weather? STAY HOME. Your body is telling you it is trying to fight off something. Rest it, keep it hydrated, and LET IT. Wash your hands, cover your mouth, drink clean water, cook healthy foods from whole foods (from 'scratch'), sleep 7-9 hours /night for an adult and appropriate amount for child's age. Stop trying to push your beliefs and emotional baggage, and toxins, on those who are strong enough and engaged enough to do their own research and make their own choices.

  1. Dr. David's Avatar Dr. David

    "Science" is not absolute. Vaccinations can indeed cause significant harm and death, that is well documented fact. Vaccinations are also helpful, they have made tremendous impact on disease around the world. Our children were not vaccinated until they were in early adolescence - and I would do the same again unless there were specific reasons regarding where we lived or what type of diseases were becoming prevalent where we were. Vaccinations that are given in early childhood in mass, multiple vaccinations at the same time, are strictly for the convenience of the medical providers - it is not "Best Practice".

    1. T's Avatar T

      Exactly. You made an informed decision. Any many pro-vaccine medical providers either pick-and-choose which vaccines they feel are imperative and/or spread out the vaccine schedule. Little known is that there are vaccines that have much, much wider parameters for the advised schedule by the manufacturer than is advised by the CDC. The neurological system of newborns is not fully developed. Yet they are now supposed to be given vaccines on Day 1 of life? Really, how many newborns do you know that are into IV drug abusers and engaged in illicit sex? Hep B vaccine NECESSARY???? Really....

  1. Beverly's Avatar Beverly

    Yes,all babies and young children should be given shots. Medical tech with four children I would not even think about not giving my kids shots against dangerous diseases. They became less dangerous when children were given protective shots.Now the diseases are on the up swing because people listen to a fright tale and left their children at risk.

  1. T's Avatar T

    Educate yourselves from facts, not hype. And certainly not from technicians or those whose careers and 'knowledge' are based on only following orders or information from the government or special interests (kind of an oxymoron, isn't it?)!

    Here is a list of the ingredients in vaccines. Ammonium sulfate; beta-propiolactone; latex rubber; genetically modified yeast, animal, bacterial and viral DNA; monosodium glutamate; aluminum; formaldehyde (formalin); microorganisms--live and killed virus and bacteria or their toxins polysorbate-80; tri(n)butylphosphate; glutaraldehyde; gelatin (calf, cattle, pork); gentamycin sulfate & polymixin B (antibiotics); mercury/thimerosal--be aware that <0.5% is considered insignificant and not labeled as an ingredient, by the FDA, just like food products; neomycin sulfate (antibiotic); phenol/phenoxyethanol (2-PE); human and animal cells--human cells from aborted fetuses and human albumin (Ever wonder why all those blood donation vehicles are in the parking lots of your favorite retail centers? Think your blood donation is just being 'donated' to be used as blood for a needy victim? Think again!) Pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain, guinea pig, dog kidney, cow heart, monkey kidney, chick embryo (fetal), chicken egg, duck egg, sheep blood, etc., etc. etc. (source: Instead of depending on the rumors and 'Vaccine Information Sheet' written by the CDC/DOH/FDA, ask for the "drug insert" from the vaccine box --- AND READ IT. The mantra in healthcare is that you are only required to inform patients enough to make the decision you want them to make, with a few exceptions. NOW you have been educated....go do your own research on each ingredient (use 'google' as a verb---an ACTION word) and decide for yourself and your dependents.

  1. T's Avatar T

    One does not receive a religious exemption from the DOE, one NOTIFIES that entity of such. Federal Law gives the right to choose based on one's religious beliefs (not 'one's religion'). State law NEVER trumps federal law that has afforded you a minimum right. All that has to be done, is state that it is your religious belief. No one can challenge you on your beliefs, or your past acceptance of any or all vaccines. All one has to state is that it is his/her religious belief -- if you want to add "it's in the Bible", you certainly may do so. Any state worker that challenges you (bullying, in reality, from local experiences), should be met with the following statement "You are PROHIBITED by federal law from asking me those questions.". This is the strongest bullet you have in your arsenal of parental protection.

    If your state allows for a personal belief exemption, and you choose to go that route, frequently it is easier on you and your child to have the 'school physical' and necessary form, completed at a non-threatening, non-punitive care site (retail clinics, chiropractors, and wellness-oriented medical (ARNP, MD, DO) providers rather than a pediatrician/practitioner who has stated that if you do not vaccinate he/she will not take care of your child. Be forewarned, if local action is any indication of other jurisdictions, personal belief is a lot more under attack than would be religious belief.

    There is another option of which many parents are not aware: Titers. These are blood level tests for the specific disease to determine whether or not a person (any age) has immunity. Once there is a titer level that has the result(s) of immunity, the provider writes a note/prescription or fills out a school form (college-level) that identifies the disease and the immunity determination. Voila, no need for the vaccine. After all, the goal is to prevent disease, and if one is immune, that goal has been met without the need for that vaccine. Titers can be used for proof of immunity at any school level; just be cognizant of how one acquires natural immunity and perform the titer testing at the best time.

    If you chose to vaccinate or not, or are selective in the vaccines you choose or the vaccination schedule (which has a wide berth for choice, in some instances), be sure you are educated on the risks and benefits of your choices.

    One educational text, now in PDF on the internet, is "Horrors of Vaccination Exposed" (and Illustrated) by Chas. M. Higgins, Brooklyn, NY 1929. It is insightful, research based, and thought-provoking.

    Good luck to all.

    1. patty's Avatar patty

      1929!!!! That is the year of the article that you are referencing!?

      1. T's Avatar T

        It is a Textbook, as stated, now available in PDF, as it is no longer under copyright. It is a LANDMARK research textbook, and as such, is not thrown out just because of the date of publication. That is widely accepted in health care, research, and writing. Again, it is an educational reading, but quite illuminating as to the actual progression of disease eradication and the onset of vaccine campaigns. Amazing reading. And, well before medicine, research, and treatment became a multi-trillion dollar a year profit oriented corporate business model.

  1. Ric Basen's Avatar Ric Basen

    I dont want to argue with anyone. I simply wish that people would get facts from a verified source rather than rumors or discredited sources. There are many sources today that have been proven wrong, including actors and a few doctors. One of the most outspoken Doctors on the issue later admitted that he made up his 'findings' to please some friends. Also, an actor made a lot of noise against health issues a few years ago. She had NO training nor actual knowledge about the subject. If you want real facts, from both sides, Please check with the WHO. They have real answers.. not Hype.

    1. JO-ANN's Avatar JO-ANN

      THERE-IN lies the problem....that both sides do have FACTS .....HARD FACTS......which makes it virtually impossible to make any kind of decision........and the debate begins...based on what you are personally leaning toward...based on mindset....based on life experiences......etc. We know these vaccinations are nasty ( thank you for the list.....yuk!) and, yet we are beholden to the the scientist that have halted polio in its tracks etc. and other diseases right????? of course.... What are you able to trust more....the shots will work....the lack of shots won't cause me to get the disease and possibly infect others.....the shots will cause me to get sick......THOSE ARE OUR CHOICES matter how you slice it! Poverbs 3:6 In all ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths ....I would never let my kids get shots while they were either sick or even if they had just been sick.... recovering from the flu....I remember thu the years....Now I understand that slowing the cycle of shots down is recommended...I would go for that too regarding grandchildren I now have.... and, then 1CORINTHIANS10 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsover ye do, do all to the glory of GOD! I bless everything I eat...say my prayers before meals. I AM DEFINATELY GOING TO BLESS THOSE VACCINATIONS!!!! I PRAISE YOU AND THANK YOU GOD FOR THE WORD TO STAND ON....and, when I am afraid ....I trust in you!

  1. Michael Fullmer's Avatar Michael Fullmer

    Let's see...should kids be vaccinated? Ahhhh Yeah!

  1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

    If you trust your government, by all means get vaccinated, and get your children vaccinated. Don't worry about everyone else's children. If YOUR vaccine works, you have nothing to fear. If you're afraid it won't, that means you don't trust your government. You can only worry about your own. Everyone else's child is THEIR responsibility. Sure, if they're starving or beating them, you have a right to intervene. If they are raising them in a way that is different from yours, it is none of your business, OR the government's business. Why is this even a "controversy"? Get over it.

  1. Jacqueline's Avatar Jacqueline

    I suggest people watch the excellent documentary film "Vaxxed" that Robert de Niro helped to promote. Not all vaccines are bad but some are. People need to know the facts and then be allowed to make a choice. Apparently Amazon has just banned this film from its website store. About a hundred years ago Rudolph Steiner warned that in the times we live in now there would be vaccines that would turn children away from their natural spiritual inclination.

  1. Charles Ryan Lilly's Avatar Charles Ryan Lilly

    I've written exemptions for people. I was just checking to see the Church's stance on it. Since the Church has no stance and allows us to decide, in my congregation I am against mRNA vaccines and any vaccine requirement needed to buy and sell or make a living or participate in society. Just wait, soon they will require an iris scan (forehead) or a hand scan (right hand) to verify your vaccination status just so you can enter a grocery store. No thank you. I will not participate.

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