US Constitution and holy bible together
Do these two things belong together?

The following guest sermon was submitted by ULC minister Brenda Dansby. All ULC Ministers are invited to contribute their own sermons for consideration/publication. To submit a sermon, please email it to sermons@ulc.org.


In case you’ve been living under a rock, the Supreme Court is fast steering the United States into theocracy territory.

It started when they decided to walk back 50 years of legal precedent by overturning Roe v. Wade – and in the process delivering a major victory to religious groups that oppose abortion.

As if that wasn’t enough, just days later the conservatives on the court ruled that prayer from teachers and coaches is A-okay in public schools – so long as you’re Christian, of course. Yet again, the Christian faith received preferential treatment at the Supreme Court.

Is it just me, or are we moving from a secular society toward a theocracy at an alarming pace?

State-Sponsored Christianity

As you're aware, the First Amendment guarantees every American freedom of religion. It also prohibits the federal government and all U.S. states and territories from establishing a state religion. As Thomas Jefferson put it, "separation between church and state." It’s a bedrock principle upon which this country was founded.

And that pesky Establishment Clause in the Constitution has been a thorn in the side of faith groups who would like to see their religion (typically Christianity) more broadly represented in the public sphere. Well, they may finally have found a Supreme Court that agrees with them. 

Earlier this week, the court ruled on the side of a public high school football coach who prayed at the 50-yard line after games. His own school district repeatedly asked him to stop, fearing it would appear that the school explicitly endorsed his Christian faith. Not to mention his actions coerced players to join him in prayer out of fear that their position on the team would be compromised if they didn’t.

Cases like this are exactly why the Establishment Clause exists. Even if the prayers were well-intentioned, they are completely inappropriate given the circumstances. It was as clear an endorsement of one faith over another that you could ever find.

Amazingly, the court actually found that the school violated the coach’s rights to freedom of religion when they asked him to stop his very public prayers.

Somehow, a football coach surrounded by students, praying to Jesus on the field (while on the clock) is not an obvious endorsement of Christianity?

One wonders if he were rolling out the prayer mat and facing Mecca if he would receive the same judgment.

Abortion Rights Trampled

Removing women's bodily autonomy in the name of God has been a primary goal of evangelicals ever since Roe was first decided. Guided by their religious belief that life begins at conception, Christians have been trying to reverse the landmark ruling that guaranteed a woman’s right to an abortion for decades.

In overturning Roe, the Supreme Court again voted to impose a particularly narrow Christian worldview on all of us, whether we like it or not.

Nevermind that Jewish scripture guarantees the right to an abortion for women. Nevermind that the science states that life doesn’t begin at conception. Nevermind that banning abortion doesn’t actually stop it, it only makes it more dangerous.

Evangelical Christians have interpreted their particular religious text to say that life begins at conception, so we must all fall in line.

And if you think this rights rollback stops at abortion, you might have another thing coming. Justice Thomas himself said the court should give another look at other recent court rulings, such as those that legalized marriage equality, gay sex, and contraception

Coincidence, I’m sure, that those are all things that evangelicals most fervently oppose.

There is only one endgame I can see here: a full-blown Christian theocracy. A return to a time when women were pregnant, barefoot, and in the kitchen. A return to a time when the LGBTQ community hid in the closet, out of fear of violent reprisal. A return to a time when teachers indoctrinated the next generation with prayer in the classroom. 

A return to Christian privilege.

77 comments

  1. John's Avatar John

    My comment is a simple one. We need to elect public officials regardless of party who believe in the separation of church and state and if the people find our judicial system is in violation of this constitutional principle, then those judges can be impeached and removed.

    Furthermore elected party officials whoever they may be should believe in the right of a woman to control her own body. And if these elected party officials want to put us back to a simpler time where men, particularly white men determine and control a woman's life, then they must be voted out and kept out. It's frankly up to all of us to become proactive and involved citizens.

    Our democracy and the future of our children and nation are being attacked from within. Yes we are all affected by inflation, climate change, discrimination, etc. But if all of us don't take an interest and action NOW against this right wing and overly zealous minority whose only purpose is to control the majority, these United States of America will cease to exist

    1. John P Maher's Avatar John P Maher

      WELL JOHN I for ONE AGREE 100 % WITH YOUR STATEMENTs ! TOO, TOO MUCH B S and LIES in ALL GOVT.!

    2. Earl Wayne Bell's Avatar Earl Wayne Bell

      The legal mindset often eludes many people. The Court ruled on the constitutional right to abortion, As the constitution doesn't address it, the Court would have been hard-pressed to say it was there when it clearly wasn't. Rather that being upset at the decision, I'm more upset that they established a prescient with Roe vs Wade when there was never anything to substantiate it in the first place. For 50 years abortion was allowed because of a lie. Now that's something to be upset about.

      This all has nothing to do with the legality of abortion. It's just not a constitutional issue. Congress can pass a law to make this the case nationally. Until this is done it's up to the individual States.

      I disagree with the writer's read on the Coach's prayer. I played College Ball and as a Christian, I prayed along with most players. Not all players shared my beliefs, but many prayed to Allah. Christians, Jews and Muslims share the same Father. Those who did not pray were left to follow their own choice. None expressed dissatisfaction about praying to a God worshiped by the vast majority of the population.

      This is a predominantly Christian country. Accept the what is.The reason why we have the elected officials we have are because that the majority of the voters are Christian. So that's something Christians can be blamed for. You get the Government that you deserve.

      1. John's Avatar John

        Remember Earl, the ruling had nothing to do with the actual process of abortion or the protection of an unborn child / fetus. The ruling which stood for 50 years had to do with privacy. The privacy between a woman and her physician. The ruling has nothing to do with protection of the fetus but rather control of the woman.

        1. Darrell Hebert's Avatar Darrell Hebert

          Even rbg knew roe was bad case law.
          Now people (women) will truly get a choice, Through their elected state representatives. NY and Cali (fed gov) should not tell the middle of the country or the south what laws should be.

      2. Deborah Lynn Strafuss's Avatar Deborah Lynn Strafuss

        Exactly John - and with the right of a woman to have control over her own body irrespective of religious beliefs and perceptions. I personally find it appalling that we even need to have legislation over such a topic - there is nothing I am aware of in our entire legal system that deals with a man's right to control his own body. I have no idea how we came to be discussing a woman's bodily rights without addressing limitations on all peoples, male and female. Many might find that topic completely non-constitutional. Life at conception and protecting that life is a beautiful religious belief that Christians are very welcome to embrace within their faith - which is free and voluntary because this country guarantees the freedom and right of all religious beliefs and groups. Not their dominance.

        And I think I will go down to the playing field and hold a shamanic ceremony praying to the spirits of the land to welcome and bless the players and to thank them for this wonderful, live earth that gives us space to play and enjoy and be blessed by the energy of life and spirit in all things. I would encourage all religions to begin to hold ceremony and prayer at public and school sporting events - it is a wonderful way to begin to expose people to the beautiful varieties of faith and spirit and the diversity of belief systems this country embraces.

      3. Lynda Louisse Dickerson's Avatar Lynda Louisse Dickerson

        I'm not against prayer. I think prayer is a good thing. But it just seems to me that praying to win a football game is a petty, cheesy, immature invocation of God's powers. It's just a stupid game of entertainment. Pray for peace. Pray for forgiveness. Pray for understanding.

  1. Robert Gagnon's Avatar Robert Gagnon

    Seems like most countries are dominated by the prominent religion in there region. Protestants in England, Catholics in Rome, Muslims in Arab lands. America was supposed to be different, but only on the surface. Historically, we were always ruled by the Protestants and recently the Evangelists. In fact Christian extremists and out casts founded this country. Not until 1960 did we see the first Catholic President, and look at what happened to Kennedy. Now the power of the WASP seems to be fading, and they are exerting their will. Fired up by the fear of no longer being the majority, they've decided to destroy our democracy. Because they no longer are the majority. If it were up to these religious nuts, only WASP's could vote. They just happened to rally behind the most monstrous leader they could find. Now they are forcing their loony ideas on the other 2/3rds of Americans. If they want to use violence to make these gains, they find they bit off more than they can chew. The fears of being hunted down for their religious beliefs may yet come to pass.

    1. Rev Mark D's Avatar Rev Mark D

      The CIA assassinated Kennedy, not the pope.

    2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      Ok Robert, you need to reeducate yourself. We are a Democratic REPUBLIC meaning one person one vote. We are NOT and never have been a democracy. That should have been taught to you in the 3rd grade, so the question now should be why didnt you pay attention?

      1. Dr. Zerpersande's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande

        Although you are correct if you truly wish to fight for the semantical difference apparently so important to you, (but totally irrelevant to the point that Robert was making), then be prepared for said fight to consume a large portion of your life energy. As for this difference being taught being taught in the 3rd grade, I think you are exaggerating quite a bit. Go take a poll of 4th graders and see how many can explain the difference between a democracy and a republic. Also, will your fight to wipe out this ignorance include educating the American politicians that blather on about ‘American democracy’ and ‘spreading democracy to other countries’?

        And to Robert… I, for one, agree with your sentiments.

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          there is noting semantical about it, I quoted exactly from the Constitution and US history. You dont wish to accept this fact then thats your problem not mine

          1. Dr. Zerpersande's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande

            Oh, I was fully aware of both the fact that the US is a republic and the difference between them. My issues with your comment were:

            1- You focused on the republic/democracy difference but the discussion has nothing to do with that.

            2- You greatly exaggerated your insult when you stated such is taught in the 3rd grade. That’s bull.

            3- Politicians commonly speak of spreading democracy, it’s a common mistake. Democratic process, spread democracy to other countries, the examples heard are numerous.

            As for your most recent comment claiming there is ‘nothing semantical about it it’, in this case you need to educate yourself as to the meaning of a word prior to using it in an argument.

            Semantical is defined as ‘of or relating to meaning or arising from distinctions between the meanings of different words’. Ask yourself if this article is about the difference between democracies and republics. (Clue: not at all). However, you read Robert’s somewhat lengthy post and jumped on the fact that he used the word ‘democracy’ rather than ‘republic’ attempted to educate him on THE DISTINCTIONS BETWEEN THE MEANINGS OF two DIFFERENT WORDS.

            • Your response was nade purely ad hom attack that had exactly ZERO to do with the article being discussed.
            • You made a false claim that the difference between democracy and republic is taught in the 3rd grade.
            • You then attacked him for not paying attention in the 3rd grade??

            Go do something useful, Danny, such as take an exit poll of 3rd graders to determine if they know the difference between republic and democracy.

          2. Dr. Zerpersande's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande

            Here’s an example of someone referring to ‘our democracy’. Target him. I’m sure he’ll benefit from your correction efforts. https://youtu.be/42phACLyZb4

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              Who? You mean Merrick Garland? The guy that has so many political problems that he was darn near about to have his name removed from consideration? You mean the guy who calls the jan 6th people "instigators" and then turns around and calls the rioters in Wisconsin and Oregon and Washington State who murdered people/raped people/extorted people/blocked people from leaving their own neighborhoods/committed arson/destroyed businesses/stole and these were called "peaceful protestors"? Are you really playing that ignorant?

      2. Paul Edward Nunis's Avatar Paul Edward Nunis

        Past 3rd grade they teach that classic democracies like ancient Greece, and modern constitutional republics can both be 'a democracy'. And middle school math explains why the former cannot work for 330 million people.

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Thats them, that is NOT America. evey one of our founding fathers documents say that we are a Democratic REPUBLIC, not a democracy. Even Franklin tod a woman when she asked what kind of government that they gave us was, Franklin stated a Democratic Republic, IF you can keep it

          1. Paul Edward Nunis's Avatar Paul Edward Nunis

            Again, interesting version of reality you are stuck in. Here on Earth, there are 330+ million people in America, every person voting on e erything is literally impossible. And Ben Franklin never said what you claim (3 decades before there was a Democratic Party)... he just said 'Republic', leaving the obvious difference between a monarchy and a democracy understood for any literate person. And here on Earth, words that start with similar letters don't always mean exactly the same thing. Sounds like your version of reality saves you from having to think for yourself.

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              Thanks for destroying yourself with your own post as you just cut the throat of the point you tried to make and failed.

              Nice to have a fake source act like an expert so you can just use them for reference, ignoring the simple fact that it makes you look more foolish then before

      3. Robert Gagnon's Avatar Robert Gagnon

        Definition of democracy 1a: government by the people especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections 2: a political unit that has a democratic government

        One person one vote? Guess electoral college makes every vote count.

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          SO I guess you just proved yourself wrong and didnt even see it.

  1. Dr. Zerpersande's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande

    “The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” John Adams

    “The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding.” Thomas Jefferson

    1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp's Avatar Catherine Ohrin-Greipp

      James Madison: "Religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together." Thomas Jefferson: "Christianity neither is, nor ever was, part of the common law" The USA is not a Christian nation. It never was nor is it now. What we have are Talibangelicals and Christo Fascists, attempting to control the masses with their racist and misogynist beliefs of their superiority while demonstrating hypocrite behavior.

    2. JaZe's Avatar JaZe

      Several founding fathers were Masons.

  1. Dawn's Avatar Dawn

    Welcome to ‘christian’ sharia law…

  1. Chris's Avatar Chris

    Reading the comments, it's interesting to see those supporting the SCQTUS decisions. They're all based on one particular religious doctrine. It's obvious to anyone with a brain. Denying it makes you look foolish.

    It doesn't matter what the majority religion is of this country. This country was never intended to be a theocracy. The First Amendment was set specifically for that. The federal government cannot support any one particular religion, yet that's exactly what the GQP have been doing in earnest since 2015. The past couple of weeks have proven these so-called Justices don't care about the Constitution. They only care about pandering to their religion. They can't even live by their religion but they sure demand everyone follows it regardless of what we might believe.

    1. Dr. Zerpersande's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande

      It seems that the separation of church and State has been construed as the meaning. The religiously delusional crowd points out, perhaps correctly, the the First Amendment just says the State make an official religion, not that religion can’t be practiced in State activities.

      I’m a Democrat (in theory) in large part because from an extremely young age I decided that religious people were total nutjobs for believing in god. I try to avoid associating with such people.

  1. John Peter Dugan's Avatar John Peter Dugan

    And this is very disturbing because Christianity is a minority religion of the religions of the world and it is in itself fragmented into many variations some of which do not get along with the other forms at all. This will make the U.S. even less favored among other nations, specially the more developed ones, and non Christian countries and will lead to a lot of fighting among people in the U.S. than is already going on.

    1. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

      No one has a right to control their own body without paying the consequences that come after. Your statement disregards responsibility. A woman has every right to her body only in the sense of being responsible. If you intend to engage in premarital sex or sex in marriage then take precautions to avoid pregnancy. To take a life just because you were irresponsible in your actions regarding pregnancy does not give you the right to overlook your responsibilities.

      1. Chris's Avatar Chris

        You are ignoring cases of pregnancy via rape, as well as medical emergencies. If a girl is raped and becomes pregnant should she have been on birth control just in case? Should she be required to carry out her attacker's child? If a woman's life is in danger due to the pregnancy, such as an ectopic pregnancy, should she be required to give up her life in a futile attempt at saving the unviable fetus?

        What if mandates came out requiring you to wear a mask to prevent spreading a disease? Or getting a vaccine to prevent spreading a disease? Would that negate bodily autonomy? How about forced castration because you're gay? Is that acceptable?

        Not to mention birth control for women is already being regulated much more than for men. Perhaps the responsibility you speak so highly of should be removed from women all together and placed solely on men, since without a man a woman wouldn't be pregnant. If life begins at conception, allow claiming a fetus on tax returns. Make child support mandatory from conception and make it a legal requirement regardless of the male's circumstances. After all, he had sex too. He needs to take responsibility for HIS actions.

        Or does that not coincide with your opinion?

    2. Keith Allen Steele Eash's Avatar Keith Allen Steele Eash

      Why should we care what other countries think. We are responsible for pushing for abortion and gay rights in our foreign policy. Most of the world didn't support either one. We have become a godless nation advocating crimes and disrespect and mockery of religion. It's time we start promoting our Judeo-Christian values and our Constitutional values in our foreign policy and yo hell otherwise with what the world thinks. Why should we be like the rest of the world. We are a "City on a Hill".

    3. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      Nope sorry but you are wrong, Christianity is the biggest religion in the world, followed behind by Islam. Before you make a post make sure that you are telling the truth as all your post here does is make you look foolish

      1. Dr. Zerpersande's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande

        Ahh, the old ‘The boil on my buttocks is larger and smellier than the one on yours.’ But although it may be larger, it is currently not as smelly as that of Islamic Sharia law. It seems that it is the intent of xtians to become the nastiest boil on the buttocks of mankind. And progress is being made. Please continue.

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          No its stated fact. you cant accept this fact then thats your problem not mine

          1. Dr. Zerpersande's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande

            Yes, I was aware that xtianity is the current President of the Organization of Non-Evidenced Delusional Beliefs. My point is just that, in my opinion, uhhh, currently xtianity is the largest and smelliest boil on the buttocks of humankind. Stand proud, Danny.

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              really? so you really want to do this Carl? You got blasted so badly the last times you tried this and came very close to having your account removed so you go through and make up a new one?

              Try this ignorance again and this account will be reported as well and then what are you going to do?

      2. Robert Gagnon's Avatar Robert Gagnon

        Christians are 20% more than Muslims. But recently some Christians claim that the Catholics are Satan's soldiers. So if Catholics are grouped with the Muslims as an enemy, then Christians are no longer the majority. Out of this number how many self described Christians are actually practicing? How many are true believers, or just identify as Christian like the Trans community? How many are Anglo? Do brown and black Christians count? Hey Dan how does that work in your republic?

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          trying to add more to it then needed? Ok then how many who claim to be atheists or humanists or wiccan or muslums can say they are practicing? Or any other religion. Your attempt to try and downplay that Christians are the worlds largest religion has failed drastically.

          So hey Robert, how does fact and reality that destroy your post work in your fantasy?

  1. Maximillian Martin's Avatar Maximillian Martin

    If this country becomes a christian theocracy it will fall faster than you can imagine!!! The revolution will be extremely violent and bloody!!!

  1. Robert Gagnon's Avatar Robert Gagnon

    The Texas school board has decided that the word slavery is too harsh for the delicate white students sensitivity. They have decided to change the "S" word to "involuntarily relocated". All school books will soon require this. I guess the Jews were involuntary relocated to Egypt?

  1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

    Ok for the clueless who still hang on to this myth of Separation of Church and State....EDUCATE YOURSELF! The Constitution was ratified in 1787 and after it was ratified as the supreme law of the land then it would take a constitutional amendment to change it. There has been NO such amendment ever brought up. The very first mention of this myth was in a letter from Jefferson to his baptist detractors in 1802, a good fifteen years after the Constitution was made supreme law of the land. In short there is not and never was any separation of church and state. The establishment clause means that the Federal Government CANNOT make a national religion like they had in England, nothing more. And that the federal/state/local CANNOT make a law that violates a persons recognized religion as clearly stated in the Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc. v. Hialeah, 508 U.S. 520 (1993) lawsuit from the SCOTUS. Animal sacrifice is part of their religion (Sangrea) and Hialeah Florida tried to ban this animal sacrifice and got slapped down so hard they are still bouncing. And it makes no difference what the SCOTUS ruled about this as they do not at any time in article 3 of the constitution, have the authority or ability to interpret anything and neither Congress nor the SCOTUS can grant or give themselves this ability or authority. They can only decide if a law that was passed is legal or not...unconstitutional or not. Nothing more. And the 10th Amendment clearly says that unless the constitution SPECIFICALLY grants an authority to you, then you dont have it and never have had it. So you can try and whine all you want but the fact remains that you cant demand anyone support this myth. The Little Sisters of the Poor (Little Sisters of the Poor Saints Peter and Paul Home v. Pennsylvania, 591 U.S SCOTUS 2020) and the baker decision (MASTERPIECE CAKESHOP V. COLORADO CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION US Supreme Court(2018) out of Colorado BOTH say the same thing. Nice try to the author of this bologna, the law and the Constitution are calling you out for lying. So maybe the author should take their personal bias out of this and actually tell the truth, but they cant as if they did then it would destroy them.

  1. Rod Gesner's Avatar Rod Gesner

    The neglect of our public school education of critical thinking skills and accurate non jingoist usa and world history; has greatly contributed to this wave of fascist control it is not just the church going but also the ignorant (sometimes willfully ignorant) Fearfull of any one or thing beyond their own narrow lifestyle; That have been given permission to hate, Bully, intimidate, and Commit Violent acts to support a viscous Gangster connected Real estate Con man that panders to their need to Blame and attack others instead of making positive change; TRUMP KEEPS HITLERS SPEACH BOOK AS HIS BEDSIDE READING. HIS GOAL IS BEYOND A XSTAIN THEOCRACY BUT HE WILL USE THEM JUST LIKE HE USES WHITE NATIONALIST PRO FASCIST GROUPS. EVEN With all the combined forces he has gathered he has NO TRUE MAJORITY. The xstain Right even less of a percentage; We The PEOPLE have a responsibility to act not just vote.. File charges and Lawsuits against churches violating their tax exemptions by promoting and paying for political campaigns. Prosecute All domestic terrorists and shut down Violence Promoting and Civil rights Violating Groups. Yes even churches. Large demonstrations have become to vulnerable to police abuse of power cooperating with Violent accelerationists and fascist white supremacists which Media Spins as Rioting by the Left. We Need more Direct Actions that get results and Stop the Killers. Hold accountable those that use fear hate n divisive Psych ops to breed Chaos and support their Power grab. Protect our children from KILLERS; land those that attempt to force hatefilled n bigoted racist and cultural practices on our kids; not Drag Queen story hours. Or honest examination of how racism and other bigotry have been and still are getting gov and church support. Make the churches that hide pedophiles accountable for their crimes and Bankrupt them with Victim LAWSUITS.. THEY HAVE AMASSED FORTUNES WHILE VIOLATING OUR TAX LAWS AND OUR CHILDRENS MINDS AND BODIES.. MAKE THEM PAY.

    1. Dr. Zerpersande's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande

      A bit rambling but for the most part you made valid points.

    2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      All ramblings and not one of them truthful. And I would LOVE for you to try and claim that a church should pay taxes, this has already been decided by the Supreme Court and at least 45 other lower courts that the religions are EXEMPT from taxes. SO try your ants somewhere else as all they are doing is showing you are not playing with a full deck as you are missing 50 of the 52 cards.

  1. Charles Jude Platt's Avatar Charles Jude Platt

    OMG, The same type of Christians that attempted to overthrow our American Government are now removing Constitutional law from the US Constitution, Holy, Sugar Honey Iced Tea, where in for a mess of doo-doo.

    I like to believe I am a follower of Christ. I truly like the guy. These clowns are dangerous. We now have good old Lucifer Nazis in charge of our Supreme Court. Would the real Jesus Christ stand up and "smite" these clowns down quickly before they destroy you Jesus, and America as well.

    Good day all. Peace & love, where the he'll are all the "flower" power when we need it?

  1. Dr. Zerpersande's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande

    There’s a need for a coach that will spend some time before a football requesting help from Satan in defeating the other team. Maybe this will drive home the point that there are people who shudder at the thought of even being exposed to the delusional religious rantings of a bunch of scientifically ignorant adherents to a Bronze Age belief system.

  1. Carla Jakola Smith's Avatar Carla Jakola Smith

    A return to Christian privilege?

    I am a native of North Carolina for all my almost 57 years; Christian privilege has ALWAYS been present in my state and in the South.

    For many years, Jews and Catholics weren’t allowed. You didn’t advertise that you attended any church BESIDES the Baptist Church because all the rest were devil worshippers (choir robes and robes worn by clergy). I kid you not. Speak to Freewill or Pentecostal Baptists and ask them.

    As a public eclectic Pagan Witch since 2000, I have issues with public schools who ostracized my son for not praying around the flagpole in the mornings. My house was egged by students ON A PUBLIC SCHOOL BUS and I have heard kids on the bus singing Jesus Loves You in their attempt at bullying.

    Threats with lawsuits and removing my son from school were how the issues were resolved. Although damage was done. My son dropped out because he was fed up with it all at 16.

    So yeah the First Amendment guarantees Freedom of Religion and Freedom FROM Religion, but in the South, the majority of society interprets the First Amendment to mean THEIR RELIGION is okay. Everyone else worships Satan or are towel heads.

    No I am NOT exaggerating. The Wite Evangelical Christianity movement is alive and well and in charge since PTL was founded and the Moral Majority came into play under President Reagan.

    They have the majority in this country; y’all haven’t been paying attention.

  1. Melvyn R. Winge's Avatar Melvyn R. Winge

    Separation of Church and State was listed as the topic, not abortion rights, but given feelings on that topic it is understandable it has dominated the conversation/arguments:
    I do have one thing to share, and it has nothing to do with abortion. It is a prayer/song/ poem that I found posted on a website on the Fourth of July, posted over a gif of an American flag bravely flying in the wind.

    We are the people whom God chose to be free. We are the ones who live in grace from sea to sea. We are the heroes who battle for each noble right. We are the families who must be God's pure light. We are you and me, black and white, man, woman, child. We must stand with honor in unity and emerge undefiled. We are Americans and we must remain strong night and day.

    On the face of it, it would seem to be a somewhat patriotic song, but think about that first line - "We are the people God chose to be free." Since when? I thought we were a number of different groups of people who chose to be free and create a country based on freedom. (Yes, I am fully aware that we have not reached that dream, but I still have some small bit of hope for the future.)

    2nd line: "We live in grace" Huh? Whose grace? Who granted us this grace? We are human beings with all of the failing of human beings, and of late more failing than most, failing that are tearing us and our country apart.

    3rd line: "We battle for each noble right." Really? As I remember there is some important document that says we all have the unalienable right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. So, why does my gay Muslim neighbor have to keep her Wicca celebrations and observances hidden in her backyard?

    Line #4 is a goodie! : "We are the families who must be God's pure light." Do those families basking in God's light include the two gay men down the street with their three kids? The Hindi family across the street? The atheist, his wife, and five children I saw at the store last night? The black family who just moved in behind me after their last home was bathed in the light of the cross burning in their front yard?

    Line #5: "...you me, black, white, man, woman child." So long as you have the same ideas, thoughts, and values that I do, sure we can get along. If you or I disagree, we just have to be sure that we never - EVER - let it be known.

    Line the 6th: "We must stand with honor in unity and emerge undefiled." With this line I agree - We MUST stand together, even in our differences - ESPECIALLY in our differences, and we must work to gain that unity and we must honor each other's differences, accept them, and respect them - if we are to emerge "Undefiled." Whatever the frack that means.

    7: This is frightening. "We are Americans and we must remain strong night and day." Our country, commonly called "America", more rightly the United States of America, was founded on a dream that by coming together and combining our many cultures we would build a country where we could be proud of who we are and what we, as a people, stand for. However, I read that line and I hear martial music playing and see ghostly goose-stepping armies marching in masses across my mind. I hear the echo of a dark-haired man ranting before crowds, telling them of the "Purity" of their blood and how they must be strong.

    That prayer/song/poem doesn't seem so patriotic to me now. To me, at 75 years of age, it sounds of echoes from a huge conflict started by people saying much of what we hear today in this country, and in the world, a conflict that took millions of lives globally, that many of our own fathers, and mothers, well, your grandparents, fought in, were affected by, or even died in. A conflict that loosed unmentionable evils on the world and that many today try to claim never happened. We had the church and state separate when that horror was loosed on the world by mad men, and as a country, struggling with many of the same faults and fears then as we have today, we became a country and did what we were asked to do, what we had to do. I believe that we as a people, and we, as human being, have the ability to find that kind of unity again and to hold on to it and build on it. But I also believe that if we force a situation onto the many religions and beliefs found in our land we will tear apart and destroy the fragile material of the dream put out before us.

    As for the origin of the song/prayer/poem, I don't know who wrote it. I know that the person who posted it where I saw it, has feelings that are seated in the far-right politics, and they are believers in the "Far-Right Christian Faith" and believe that the church should tell the state what to do. That has been tried. Ever hear of The Inquisition?

  1. P. Keith Benefiel's Avatar P. Keith Benefiel

    When religion and government are merged, both are compromised so much that neither are effective any longer.

  1. Wilberta M. Berry's Avatar Wilberta M. Berry

    The FOUNDING FATHER'S said " There shall be no religious test to our government including running for office. Which is why they did not incorporate a CHURCH OF THE UNITED STATES. The OPUS DEI Prodominated SCOTUS says they want a "strick" nterpertation of the Constitution then, they insert their Religious beliefs into making decisions. It's hypocrisy to the Nth degree. We need Agnostics on the Bench with TERM LIMITS.

  1. Rev. MichaelRS's Avatar Rev. MichaelRS

    Is it possible to have a little bit of truth instead of hyperbole in some of these articles?

    I may get to it later out of curiosity, but for now when I got to the part that grissly mischaracterized the ruling by the Supreme Court in case of the football coach who was praying after the games as a ruling saying that prayer in public schools is okay, I really felt there was no reason to go any further.

    No matter what faith one practices I should think one of the hallmarks of any kind of minister, or whatever one's related title would be, would be to remain faithful to the truth. Otherwise our Christian friends might say that they are under the influence of the Father of Lies.

    Anyway you will know that the Supreme Court rulings quoted no Christian scriptures in their reasoning and they clearly pointed out that the protections, such as those afforded to the football coach, applied to individuals of ALL faiths.

    I for one firmly believe that this would never have been any kind of issue, starting at the school level, if that football coach had been Muslim and tossed out a prayer rug to you utilize instead of simply kneeling in place as that Christian coach did.

    1. Dawn's Avatar Dawn

      If one wants to pray in school let them attend a religious school. But public school? Nope.

      1. Rev. MichaelRS's Avatar Rev. MichaelRS

        I'm going to say Christian here, but this example applies to any faith that has a similar tradition;

        You're telling me if a Christian person is in a public school, maybe at lunch time or between classes before an exam, that that person cannot bow their head to say grace before lunch or ask God for support in the exam?

        1. Dr. Zerpersande's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande

          Nope, bet money she isn’t saying that. But school employees can’t lead such stupidity.

    2. Alexander Arends's Avatar Alexander Arends

      Not sure about your last paragraph but the rest is so correct. And as Christian pastors, we should not dictate the doctrines of other faiths. This is what makes America great.

  1. Nicholas J Page's Avatar Nicholas J Page

    I'm a UK Citizen and I admit I don't understand your Amendments so I shall plead ignorance and pass on this debate.Its funny as I have previously stated in the past.When I was a kid back on the 60s we were only taught about Christians and one church.

    1. Rev Mark D's Avatar Rev Mark D

      Nicholas, let's just say we haven't advanced much beyond the days of Henry VIII and his daughters Mary & Liz, except that everybody here is also been issued guns as tools of argument.

    2. Rev. MichaelRS's Avatar Rev. MichaelRS

      Well, that's because the UK has an official religion with HM charged with being the defender of that religion/faith.

      But the US has no such thing and if you read our 1st Amendment (the first 10 being called The Bill of Rights) it's extremely clear and that is why ULC and Scientology and Satanism and many others get to do their thing here. Not saying the three listed are interrelated, just using them as varied examples.

      But if you ever read our first 10 amendments, and they're not that long, you will see they came directly out of the grievances the founders had against the Crown.

      Although speaking of religion, I find it very funny that many groups leave their homeland for America, in part because we have religious freedom, and when they get here they want to turn parts of America into the intolerant place that they came from. The only difference being that they were the minority in their country, and so subject to the abuse of the majority, but when they get here they are the majority in the area in which they settle so then they get to be the intolerant abusers.

      1. Rev Mark D's Avatar Rev Mark D

        Michael, don't forget to mention that gunshots are the second leading cause of pediatric deaths in this country. Freedom's a gas.

      2. Rev Mark D's Avatar Rev Mark D

        Actually this country was founded by two groups for two distinct reasons. First was by rich religious intolerants so that they could practice their religious intolerance without interference. The other was irreligious rich who wanted to develop mercantile opportunities.

  1. Mark Stricklett's Avatar Mark Stricklett

    It's interesting reading the various historical descriptions of our form of goverment. Just like Religion, there are a variety of opinions and beliefs.

    Is there only one way to govern?

    We will see, change is upon us.

  1. Rev Mark D's Avatar Rev Mark D

    Oh well.

  1. Rev Mark D's Avatar Rev Mark D

    The end of lawsuits to coerce bakers to make a wedding cake? Somehow I think not.

  1. Jimmy Moon's Avatar Jimmy Moon

    For so many so-called pastors on here, you sure don't mind murdering babies, and you hate JESUS. HE is the only GOD. There is no other.

    1. Dr. Zerpersande's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande

      One god? I beg to differ. Please note list of others. http://lowchensaustralia.com/names/gods.htm

    2. Paul Edward Nunis's Avatar Paul Edward Nunis

      Murder? Like forcing 10 year old rape/incest victims to die in childbirth? And Jehovah isn't God because Jesus is the only God? Well alrighty, then...

    3. Robert Gagnon's Avatar Robert Gagnon

      Defiantly an example how ignorance is bliss!

    4. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      It’s strange how all others of other religions on the face of the earth say exactly the same as you Mr Moon, that their God is the only one. A friend of mine of the Hindu faith says the same as you. He believes his unchristian god is the only one as well. Strange thing is, neither of you have any demonstrable evidence to back up your claims. 🤷🏼

      🦁❤️

    5. Jimmy Moon's Avatar Jimmy Moon

      All three of you skipped the part about baby murder. But the name of JESUS set you off. If HE is fake, why get excited?

  1. Wayne S Pierce's Avatar Wayne S Pierce

    First, we are a Constitutional Republic not a Democracy. Second, a woman can do with her what she needs to. Men and Government should stay completely out of that decision making process. Third, prayer AFTER school, after classes have stopped or after school events or sporting events should continue. It's not a violation of the separation of church and state and it's not affecting anyone..

    These issues are based entirely upon one's own moral compass. Government has no right to tell anyone what to do. The church holds Government accountable and responsible and that's why the government wants religion abolished across all of the U.S. But, that's just my views.

  1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

    This is what happens to a US city when religion is in the mix. https://youtu.be/qHixc-QAhZQ

  1. Ronaldo's Avatar Ronaldo

    Our Founding Fathers never intended for a complete and utter separation from Church and State. Had they intended that, our currency would not contain the phrase "In God We Trust". These great men wanted people to worship as they pleased, including government officials, without government interference. If we had a true separation, Churches would probably be considered businesses and taxed accordingly, because our government could not recognize them as religions.
    Besides, abortion should never be a religious nor a political matter. It is and should only be a medical and science matter, and we need for our medical community to rise up and declare just when a "random collection of cells" becomes a separate human life. If they declare, based on science, that it begins at, or shortly after conception, then every woman who had an abortion should be charged with murder. Every woman who abuses alcohol or drugs while pregnant should be charged with child abuse. If the unborn fetus is declared human, then a woman who chooses to do with it as she pleases would be legally and medically in the wrong.

  1. James Bullard's Avatar James Bullard

    Daniel,

    The US is a democratic republic. The two terms are not incompatible. A republic is government through representatives who represent whatever the ruling class is. In China, for example, it is "the party". There is only one party allowed and if you aren't in the party you are not represented. Of course, you can only be in "the party" by acquesing to the will of the leaders of "the party"so in effect, although China is a republic in form it is actually a dictatorship in reality.

    We (the US) directly elect our representatives except for the president, who is not a representative as such but rather is an administrator who directs our government in such a way as to reflect the overall will of the people. By virtue of electing our representatives directly we are a democratic republic. Before anyone jumps on me with the argument that our representatives bow to the rich and corpororate interests rather than representing their voters, that is simply corrupt behavior on the part of those representatives. It does not alter the fact that they are elected by the people .

  1. Bart S Smith's Avatar Bart S Smith

    All they did was return the right to the states to decide on abortion. And some states rightfully had laws that went into effect banning it. Others have no laws banning it.

  1. Melvyn R. Winge's Avatar Melvyn R. Winge

    Comment has been removed.

  1. Ricardo Gonzales's Avatar Ricardo Gonzales

    What Theocracy allows for the murder of unborn children as a daily practice? China did this and the world seemed to chastize them until they couldn't get their goods for cheap. The Author must believe this whole heartedly as they continue to chastize the SCOTUS for their decisions. They also have failed to study the U.S. Consitution to understand the why it was writen as it is. The debates and arguments that went on for months over sentences. The prevailing rulings released were well written and supported by the Consitution and U.S. history. The dissenging opinions has no support in the Consitution and quick to chastize their colleagues for their well written agreements. So much so that the 3 dissenting Justices couldn't come up with a single reason the Federal Government should own that power. I've read those Opinions from both sides and found the dissenters wanting.

    The Author is either an Athiest or Muslim and complains that putting down a Mat towards Mecca is not allowed? Where? I see it frequently where 35k people work everyday and in plain view of others. So why the complaint?
    If, and I do mean if, the Author and the Editor would take the time and study the Constitution they would realize that it is the best agreement between a people and their government since no other Nation put's its people 1st and the Government 2nd. If one wants to watch where Religion and Government are one, look at the Middle East where there is often infighting and thier Governments rule with a Communist style hand and the Government is superior to the People and it shows.

  1. Krystina S.'s Avatar Krystina S.

    In discussions of the governing of the United States, SPARE ME your religious mumbo-jumbo, "beliefs," and holier-than-thou remonstrations. We have a SECULAR government and do not Pander to any version of a religion. Shame on the Christofascist Theocrats.

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