Tensions in the Muslim world have risen even further in the wake of a mass execution of 47 men by the Saudi Arabian government, among whom was a prominent Shiite cleric named Sheikh Nimr al-Nimr. Saudi Arabia is a monarchy led by a Sunni Muslim family, while nearby power Iran is a theocracy led by Shiite Muslim clerics.
In news coverage from the region we often hear of tensions between Sunni and Shia Islam, but find that few people in the Western world have been truly exposed to the differences between these two interpretations of one of Earth's most influential faiths. What is the difference between Sunni and Shia Islam?
Islam Around the World
For starters, most Muslims (more than 85 percent of them) practice Sunni Islam. These form the majority of the population in most "Muslim" nations (the two most notable outliers from this trend are Iraq and Iran, where Shiites form the majority).
Because these two sects must account for nearly 1.5 billion individuals around the world, it is also important to note that the spectrum of ideas within Sunni and Shia Islam is incredibly wide. There are more fundamentalist and more secular individuals in either group. Some people have argued that the differences between these two groups is analog to the difference between Catholic and Protestant Christians - among which you see a similar ideological spectrum.
History of the Sunni/Shia Split
The initial split between the two groups actually took place nearly 1,400 years ago, when the prophet Mohammed died. The sect that would become Sunni Islam argued that Mohammed's best friend, Abu Bakr, should succeed him as the next leader of Islam. Those who would come to form the Shia sect of Islam believed that Mohammad's son-in-law, Ali, should succeed him.
The Sunnis would eventually win that debate, but the rift never really closed (Sunni troops would later kill Ali, an event commemorated annually by Shiites). Tensions have remained high between the two groups - one Pew Research poll revealed that 4 out of 10 Sunnis don't believe that Shiites are 'real Muslims'.
What is the Difference Between Sunni and Shia Islam?
Both Sunni and Shia Islam share most of the core values of Islam and largely believe in maintaining similar practices. The rift between the two, at least from an outside perspective, definitely appears to be more historical/political (much of the political upheaval that has taken place in the Middle East over the last ~30 years can at least partially be attributed to Shia/Sunni conflict) than it does theological.
What's Next for Islam?
Especially in the wake of the recent uproar in Iran, it appears unlikely that tensions between the two factions will ease anytime soon. At this point, unfortunately, it appears as though the religious conflicts we've seen around the world (particularly over the last year) will only increase in quantity and severity.
In the interest of Universal brotherhood, we at the Universal Life Church want to know what you think: How can we close rifts and built peace?
186 comments
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Rev. Hoagie
"At this point, unfortunately, it appears as thought religious conflicts we’ve seen around the world (particularly over the last year) will only increase in quantity and severity. Read more at http://www.themonastery.org/blog/2016/01/whats-the-difference-between-sunni-and-shia-islam/#OIEVWZy9UKIAemx9.99"
First, that should read: "...it appears as though..." , not thought. Secondly you are once again confusing religion with politics and state. The Sunni's and Shi'ite's are the same religion: Islam. They are of different sects or "political parties" and because of that want different leaders and laws. Again, Islam is a form of theocratic dictatorship wrapped up in a oppressive religion. It is impossible to separate the two. All Muslims believe in theocracy they only vary on the operation of that state.
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Alvin Jones
Can we All Just Get Along!!!!! (Keep it Simple)
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Gordon
can one party "get along" with any party that desires to destroy the first party? i do not subscribe to any suicidal philosophy.
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rfox44
Religion is a delusion and conflict is follows from this. It will take many centuries before folk can do without such delusions.
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Sandy
I don't think we have centuries, let alone years left--and i'm afraid the end is drawing near!!
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Ted Prettyman
I would appreciate your definition of "delusion" as it applies to a belief system that provides hope and joy to one motivated to do good and to be of service to others in love. What is your delusion?
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Brother John
I'm not sure of rfox44's definition, but here are two…
The Merriam-Webter definition of delusion is "a belief that is not true".
Wikipedia defines it as "a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary".
Many of us choose beliefs that make us feel happy and hopeful, and often deny any realities that are contrary to those beliefs. It's called Cognitive Dissonance.
http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/dissonance.htm
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Memirsbrunnr
i am wondering if the description theocratic monarchism would be more to the point for Saudi Arabia. It is a monarchy but rules along very strict religious laws.
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Richard Yap
One Jesus, many sects. From Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Protestant, Catholics, Anglican, Lutherans, Assembly of God, etc,etc. Islam have Sunni, Sufi, Shia etc, etc. Buddhism (One Buddha) but countless type of self proclaimed buddhism. Buddhism in India/Sri Lanka differs from in China, Thailand and Tibet. The problem is never with the religion. It is always with the practitioners/followers. Once so called learned scholars takes over at the helm of the religion, division will definitely arise. Each scholars would interpret the religion according to their understandings. As time passes, we have many many sects in each religion. In Hinduism, the beginning was a worship of One God, as time passes by they have thousands of gods. As longs we have egos and holier than you attitude, we can never reunite and close the rifts set by humans and not religion. In Zen: We have One meat, but thousand of ways of cooking it. As long as we cannot control our tongue, don't think of controlling yourself -Zen Master Richard Yap
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Greg Maloney
Your beginning with one Jesus, had it been understood that it was his WORDS only that should have been adopted, and not the tale of how it all happened, the affairs of the hangers-on, the minutiae of his execution, the dwelling on ceremony and primarily the invention of bogus 'miracles' to embellish the story.
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Brother John
Lectures and debates by one of the most respected New Testament scholars, Dr. Bart Ehrman, are available on YouTube. You can also verify his credentials. For 30+ years, he's devoted his life to studying ancient Greek manuscripts regarding the Gospels, which are at the heart of Christianity. For those insisting that the Bible is the infallible word of God and contains no contradictions or errors, the lectures of this expert will challenge your beliefs to their roots, and hopefully open your eyes to the difference between fact and myth. These are but a few of the realities…..
There are no original manuscripts… only copies of copies of copies and most written centuries after the events described.
There are tens of thousands of errors, changes and variants amongst copies, particularly the oldest ones.
There were no eyewitnesses accounts of the life of the messianic Jesus. Most were written decades after the supposed events occurred.
Accounts surrounding the resurrection (key to Christianity) vary amongst the four Gospels significantly.
The original Gospel authors are not known. The names Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were added at a later date.
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Saundra Parker-Shoto
FINALLY! A logical, rational perspective! Looking through the anti-Islam comments it is difficult to imagine the authors have any religious proclivity at all. They certainly defy nearly everything I know about Christianty -- not that the authors claim to be Christian. Thank you for pointing out that other religions, especially Christianity, have opposing sects. It could also be noted that Christians are definitely not exempt from individual or collective (I.e. Crusades?) violence. Does that make them 'better' than Muslims -- or anyone else, for that matter? I think not!!!
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Rev. Hoagie
Once again Saundra Parker-Shoto, I need to point out to the ignorant the Crusades were fought to BEAT BACK the barbarian hordes of Muslim conquerors. Christians did not start the wars they were fighting back for survival.
Now, read and learn:
I stumbled across this earlier today. It’s a complete, though older, version of The Reliance of the Traveler available online.
http://www.shariahthethreat.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/reliance_of_the_traveller.pdf
This is a standard Sharia reference guide of the Shafi’i school; sort of “Sharia 101.” I wanted to bring it to everyone’s attention for a couple of different reasons. If you scroll down to the “Documents” section (beginning at page viii, or 9 of 1251 in your browser and ending at xxi or 17 of 1251 pages) you’ll see it has the stamp of approval from the leading Sunni authority of Syria, the Mufti of the Jordanian armed forces, the President of the International Institute of Islamic Thought (as well as a member of the fiqh [Islamic jurisprudence] council of Jedda, as in Saudi Arabia, and the President of the fiqh council of North America), and most importantly perhaps Al Azhar university. All of which affirm that it is an accurate transliteration of the Arabic original.
This means several things, as I’ve been trying to say.
1) Those who say you can’t understand the Quran unless you can read Arabic are full of crap. If one can accurately transliterate this book from Arabic to English, or a contract, one can do that with any document. No one makes the same claim for Japanese or Russian to English, because it’s a stupid claim.
2) No one can claim this basic Sharia manual is “extremist” as we constantly hear that Jordan is a moderate country and Al Azhar is the leading centrist authority in Sunni Islam. Which is why Obama chose it as the site for his historically and theologically illiterate 2009 speech.
3) The difference between moderate and extremist Islam ain’t all that great, as Muslim apologists would have us believe.
How so?
Well, Boko Haram is normally translated as “Western education is forbidden.” Actually it’s more accurate to say Boko Haram means “Un-Islamic education is forbidden.” Oddly enough this Sharia manual has a chapter on Sacred Knowledge. And in that chapter it has a section on on unlawful knowledge. Guess what? (Section a.7.2, or page 14):
a7,2 Unlawful knowledge includes: (1) learning soreery (dis: p3), since according to the most reliable position, it is unlaw-ful, as the vast majority of scholars have decisively stated; (2) philosophy (dis: wlO); (3) magic (sha’badha, meaning sleight of hand, etc,); (4) astrology (dis: p41); (5) the sciences of the materialists (dis: wII); (6) and anything that is a means to create doubts (n: in eternal truths). Such things vary in their degree of unlawfulness
Philosophy is simply the love of knowledge. Haram, formbidden. And guess who the “materialists” are, and what our sciences are? It turns out that far from being extremist Boko Haram is pretty much in the mainstream of Islamic thought.
Salat, or Prayer (section f1.4, or page 109)
fl.4 A Muslim who holds the prayer to be obligatory but through lack of concern neglects to perform it until its proper time is over has not committed unbelief (dis: w18.2).
Rather, he is executed, washed, prayed over, and buried in the Muslim’s cemetery (0: as he is one of them). It is recommended, but not obligat-ory, that he be asked to repent (N: and if he does, he is not executed).
You see, this is one of those YUUUUGE “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin,” inside baseball issues that mainstream Muslims believe separate them from the extremists. The Islamic doctrine of takfir, or more accurately an accusation of unbelief against someone, which is essentially a form of excommunication, is a YUUUGE point of contention between the groups. ISIS would say this individual who neglected his prayers had apostatized. the Shafi’i school says he hadn’t.
But either way you’re dead. And not even the Shafi’i school says this guy deserves a second chance at this whole Islam thing. It’s now purely a matter of which graveyard you end up in; the one for the believers or the unbelievers.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I wouldn’t be able to find a great deal of comfort in any of this.
Islam preaches peace and tolerance! (section O, “Justice,” chapter 9, “Jihad,” or page 599):
09.0 JIHAD (0: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the lesser jihad. As for the greater jihad, it is spiritual warfare against the lower self (nafs), which is why the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said as he was returning from jihad,
“We have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad.”
The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus (def: b7) is such Koranic verses as:
(1) “Fighting is prescribed for you” (Koran 2:216);
(2) “Slay them wherever you find them” (Koran 4:89); …
Read the entire chapter if you wish. Despite what you might have seen on the side of some bus or on subway car, “My jihad is to lose weight, what’s yours?,” from a legal or Sharia aspect the only jihad that is a personal or communal religious obligation is violent warfare to subjugate the unbelievers.
Page 600:
THE OBLIGATORY CHARACTER OF JIHAD
09.1 Jihad is a communal obligation (def: c3.2). When enough people perform it to success-fully accomplish it, it is no longer obligatory upon others (0: the evidence for which is the Prophet’s saying (Allah bless him and give him peace),
“He who provides the equipment for a sol-dier in jihad has himself performed jihad,”
and Allah Most High having said: “Those of the believers who are unhurt but sit behind are not equal to those who fight in Allah’s path with their property and lives. Allah has pre-ferred those who fight with their property and lives a whole degree above those who sit behind. And to each. Allah has promised great good” (Koran 4:95).
But it’s not all drudgery, fighting in the cause of Allah.
Page 606:
010.0 .THE SPOILS OF BATTLE
…010.2 As for personal booty, anyone who. despite resistance, kills one of the enemy or effec-tively incapacitates him, risking his own life thereby, is entitled to whatever he can take from the enemy, meaning as much as he can take away with him in the battle, such as a mount, clothes, weaponry, money, or other.
Guess what falls into the category of “other,” little Yazidi girls? Mm hmm, that’s right. We need to back up a little bit.
09.13 When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman’s previous marriage is immediately annulled.
Why is the slave woman’s marriage annulled? As the Quran says:
Surah 4:24 An-Nisa (The Women)
And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.
Those whom your right hand possess is an Arabic idiom for captives and slaves. And they are sexually available to Muslims, according to Allah, because their marriages don’t matter.
The Preezy would like you to believe that GITMO is a YUUUGE recruiting tool for the Islamists. As if the jihadists care where the Blind Sheikh is being imprisoned, as opposed to the fact he’s imprisoned in the first place. More to the point, which does anyone imagine is the bigger draw? Abu Ghraib, or the chance to have unlimited sex slaves?
I don’t mean to be flippant, cruel, uncaring, what have you. Indeed, I’m quite the opposite. Which is why honesty and compassion compels me to point out what should be obvious, if it were not against administration policy and maybe will soon be illegal to say. ISIS main recruiting tool is that it has finally shaken off the shakles of the opinion of the filthy kuffar and has instituted true Islam. They can make a very strong case, so strong that those whom we are told are our moderate allies generally shut up when confronted with it.
This is the reality of the situation. We need to face up to it.
Please do not lecture me about what "could be" or "should be" about Islam. I know Islam. They will kill you and me just as soon as look at us. You may not like it but that my dear, is THEIR words not mine. .
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Brother John
Well Hoagie, you may not mean to be "flippant", but you are condescending when you say "I need to point out to the ignorant" at the start of your comment. I assume you're as knowledgeable about the Bible as you claim to be about the Quran and can explain how the following biblical passages are any less extremist than you might find in the Quran. How is this not the same command to "kill the infidels"?
This one involves family and friends, not just "other people"
Deuteronomy 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, LET US GO AND SERVE OTHER GODS, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7NAMELY, OF THE GODS OF THE PEOPLE WHICH ARE ROUND ABOUT YOU, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8THOU SHALT NOT CONSENT UNTO HIM, NOR HEARKEN UNTO HIM; NEITHER SHALL THINE EYE PITY HIM, NEITHER SHALT THOU SPARE, NEITHER SHALT THOU CONCEAL HIM: 9BUT THOU SHALT SURELY KILL HIM; THINE HAND SHALL BE FIRST UPON HIM TO PUT HIM TO DEATH, AND AFTERWARDS THE HAND OF ALL THE PEOPLE. 10AND THOU SHALT STONE HIM WITH STONES, THAT HE DIE; BECAUSE HE HATH SOUGHT TO THRUST THEE AWAY FROM THE LORD THY GOD, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
This one advises to kill everyone in the city, plus all the cattle
Deuteronomy 13: 13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, LET US GO AND SERVE OTHER GODS, which ye have not known; 14Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15THOU SHALT SURELY SMITE THE INHABITANTS OF THAT CITY WITH THE EDGE OF THE SWORD, DESTROYING IT UTTERLY, AND ALL THAT IS THEREIN, AND THE CATTLE THEREOF, WITH THE EDGE OF THE SWORD.
This one confirms that the women are included but uses stoning instead of the sword
Deuteronomy 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 4And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: 5THEN SHALT THOU BRING FORTH THAT MAN OR THAT WOMAN, WHICH HAVE COMMITTED THAT WICKED THING, UNTO THY GATES, EVEN THAT MAN OR THAT WOMAN, AND SHALT STONE THEM WITH STONES, TILL THEY DIE.
I guess it's your choice on the manner of death here
2 Chronicles 15:13 THAT WHOSOEVER WOULD NOT SEEK THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH, WHETHER SMALL OR GREAT, WHETHER MAN OR WOMAN.
But Jesus wouldn't agree with this barbarity would he?
In Luke 19:27, Jesus says: Those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and KILL THEM IN FRONT OF ME.
Exodus 21 provides God's approval for slavery including the method for owning other humans for life and passing them to your heirs as property.
Thankfully the vast majority of Christians and Muslims do not adhere to the Bronze and Iron Age barbarity of their "holy books". Your statement that "they will kill you and me just as soon as look at us" is not reality, but rather a vision blurred by bigotry, racism and propaganda.
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cmdsgtmajor
No peace in the world, until all religions sit down together and solve their differences.
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Brother John
Or until the world discards all Bronze and Iron Age myths and perhaps adopts the ULC credo.. We Are All Children of the Same Universe and the Golden Rule in their place.
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Ray
If your religion says you must kill to get to heaven and be rewarded with 72 virgins, maybe the prince of lies is pulling the strings.
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Bren Cou
It did not say you have male or female virgins so if you are male you could be together with 72 male virgins ..... think about it so what are you killing for?
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Rashid
Ray, please quote it and the source. Is it from the Qur'an or a Hadith (source of guidance). There are also limitations and prerequisites. None of which you mentioned. There is no verse as you have put it. We don't have to kill to get to heaven and be rewarded as you say. It was misconstrued to fit a particular agenda. People in general will repeat what they fear and I'm sorry you have been mislead by it.
If you quote it and provide the source I can elaborate more and maybe we can cut some of those strings together.
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Nina Bonita
Oh i am SURE you'd like to elaborate more-too bad NO ONE IS GULLIBLE enough to listen. Keep your nasty LYING, misogynistic cult to yourself-islam fits the criteria of a cult not a religion you abuse women - are explicitly given that privlege by the pedophile mohamned.
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Frank Villari
Too bad this article didn't really answer it's own question in any detail. It didn't seem to answer it at all, for me.
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Gregg Scott
The more knowledge we have - the more understanding we'll also have. Ignorance is the ground that hate and intolerance grows from.
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Michael Maximus Rischer
They will never change. Their true personality already shows by their actions against one another. But they are taking the fight into our mids. Every religion speaks of acceptance and unity. For them it is only their way. Even the more open minded ones force us to ban religious classes from school and not have us put a cross up either. Instead of leaving everyone with different world views be at peace and form a peaceful living among each other type of life, the call us non believers. Well, their majority is a threat to world peace, as you can see if you only open your eyes. May god bless everyone's souls for enlightenments may enter our minds and let us realize that just because of different perceptions and world views we are still one. And what we do to each other we automatically to to ourselves. God bless.
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Steven Reimel
are you talking about your midsection "But they are taking the fight into our mids." or are you talking about bringing it into our midst?
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Brother John
I assume that you're speaking of Christianity, MMR, which remains the largest religion ("their majority") in the world (and because most of them believe "it's only their way.") The attached chart does, however, does show the Christian population dropping and Islam rising. The drop could certainly be attributed to evangelical, fundamentalist Christianity that makes no sense to rational people.
http://www.islamicity.org/1684/world-population-by-religions/
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Kathryn
Sunni or Shiite....the differences are superficial. At their core is the subjugation of women and intolerance of any life philosophy(religion) other than their own. What is the difference between a tiger and a lion? Not much, if you are a gazelle.
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Michael Brasch
Wow...suscinct and to the point! Bottom line: One must have mutual respect for every other person first...all life including our environment...then you can create a philosophy to live by. Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.
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Jean Hill
Very well put!
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Rev. Don Tobias
Best comment here so far, I'm borrowing this to post on my fb page.
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Rashid
That description sounds more like the "non-denominational" Christians that beat their wives and are intollerant of other faiths. God help us for including everyone when we say happy holidays. Geesh!!!
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Brother John
Do you believe the Bible is the word of God? Have you read the book of Exodus and others, Kathryn?
Unmarried women were not allowed to leave the home of their father without permission. Married women were not allowed to leave the home of their husband, without permission. They were normally restricted to roles of little or no authority. They could not testify in court. They could not appear in public venues. They were not allowed to talk to strangers. They had to be doubly veiled when they left their homesIs this an example of tolerance? 2 Chronicles 15:13 THAT WHOSOEVER WOULD NOT SEEK THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH, WHETHER SMALL OR GREAT, WHETHER MAN OR WOMAN.
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Kathryn
Yes, I have read the Bible, also. I will not defend any religion that degrades females or non-believers, including Christianity. Most belief systems have some form of misogyny. If you're trying to engage an "us vs. them" debate, you've chosen the wrong individual. What's difference between Catholicism and Mormonism? Not much if you are female. I was simply replying to the sects mentioned in the newsletter.
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Brother John
I'm happy to hear of your enlightenment, Kathryn and was pleased to read your thoughtful and intelligent reply
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Nina Bonita
Don't you dare quote the old testament and pretend that's Christianity. Christ said to ignore the Old Law the new testament and his words are all that matter in his New Covenant so shut up imam liar.
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Your brain
The Quran requires the death if all nonviolent Muslims (Quran 3:167) and is a murder cult like charles Manson. They rule by fear and we have never allowed such s "religion" to exist in america before. The leaders of murder cults are always in prison and Islam itself is a murder cult that breaks the first amendment inciting to murder. They are rebellious Christians and need to come back yo the nonviolent Jesus they rejected in favor of killing.
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john
This is a surprise to me. There are a variety of interpretations for this Koranic reference and most seem to decry hypocrisy.
If one searches for brutal scriptural references you may look in the Bible: Deuteronomy 7 and 20, and Joshua 8, 10 and 11. I have read these chapters in many versions of the Bible and unequivocally the interpretation is clear and consistent: God commands genocide so complete that even the domestic animals of conquered people are slaughtered. Without complete annihilation of conquered races the right to a nation will be denied to Israel. In fact, I believe that these chapters are the only reference to the formation of Jewish nation. I choose to believe that most modern Israelis ignore these verses and have found some other biblical justification for their homeland.
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Ted Prettyman
It's true that the Quran does include such references: However, my cardiologist is a Muslim and, from the many years of association with him including him guiding me through two heart attacks and related surgeries, I believe strongly in his commitment to healing and shunning of any such violence as presented. If one looks at the Old Testament of the Christian Bible one could choose to defend violence and the taking of another's land as recounted therein. Yet, my Jewish friends would not do such a thing. Many condemn the Jewish homeland, Israel, as stolen from the Palestinians. They also neglect to recount that that area was set aside by Western Allied Powers since none of them wanted the Jew in their own land. (Therein lies a huge bundle of sins all around. Depending upon one's politics and prejudices is their position on this subject. Suffice it to say it's a pool of fear and hatred begat by the same.) There is, within all of us, I believe, that sense of what is right and what is dead wrong. Whether or not legal some thoughts, beliefs and actions are just dead wrong. The absence of that dichotomy presents problems when absent in leadership, regardless of the people. The absence of that dichotomy in a people presents a problem for them as it presents an ignorance of competent and humane leadership in their leaders. My Muslim friends and my Jewish friends would have my defensive actions against any who would scandalize or libel them, or attempt physical harm to them; just like my Christian friends. Let us be faithful to discern between those who would love us from those who would hurt us regardless of their religion, color, national origin or sex. It seems that, for us Christians, is the core charge of the Christ whom we claim to love and whose Father we claim to worship. Then let us love them and serve them. Adequate defense against those who would harm us, or them, is one way to love and serve them. A part of this "adequate defense" is prayer for them who would harm us with the hope the they will, in time, see their error and atone; and we ours. Thank you for indulging my thoughts. I hope they are of service to you.
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Robert Phillips
So hard to live by but so incredibly true. This is the best post I've read, thanks.
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Brother John
Excellent post TedP! Religious conflicts are often due to bigotry, ignorance and misunderstanding. Most religions all have a form of the Golden Rule at their heart. If more of humanity were to live by this simple, pure adage, the world would be a much saner and safer place. It's the extraneous details that cause religious division, down to the word used for God.
The Dalai Lama said:"Every religion emphasizes human improvement, love, respect for others, sharing other people's suffering. On these lines every religion has more or less the same viewpoint and the same goal."
Matthew 7:12 "Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets."
Confucianism:"Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you"
Analects Hinduism: This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you. Mahabharata 5:1517
Islam: "None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself." Number 13 of Imam "Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths."
Judaism: What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the law: all the rest is commentary." Talmud, Shabbat 31a.
Taoism: To those who are good to me, I am good; to those who are not good to me, I am also good. Thus all get to be good."
Buddhism: “hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." Udana-Varga 5:18
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Dragon Priest
I read some of that koran and I find it a bunch of non related gibberish with no clear cut of morals. But it is full of horrible things their allah will do to a muslim if they do not become a slave to him. That sounds too much of what the devil would demand of his followers.
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Rashid
Obviously you read what was posted online or you would have read the limits either before or after such versus. Just like the bible it has limits to what must or should be done.
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Dragon Priest
No friend I had a copy of the Koran and read it and it felt like unconnected gibberish. Then I did some research on the historical Mohamed, mostly the hadiths and was horrified as to what was there. BTW I am spiritual of no religion as I think it is bad for humans. I do not think what appeared to him at the cave was of God as it tortured him mentally and physically. He was about to commit suicide because of it. It would have been best for the world if he had as millions would have lived with their heads attached to their necks. Islam will survive if it turns peaceful as the next WWIII will wipe it out of necessity.
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Rashid
I invite everyone to read it to see for themselves if your comments are true. They can then make a decission based on fact that they see for themselves or they can just believe your words and go blindly. They can even get the Qur'an free online and without obligation.
Me personally, I hated Muslims. I was raised that way. I never trusted anything they said.
How does the saying go..."Know your enemy." I did that after I lost my faith in God. All I was taught was hate. I knew how to argue with Christians but not Muslims. So I then began to study Islam. The problem was... The more I studied Islam, the more I felt love, peace and above all... belonging. It was like it was calling me home.
I studied for many years before becoming a Muslim. I never regretted it. I even have videos of it and my reasons on YouTube.
Forgive my typing. I wrote this on my cell phone.
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Brother John
Read the Old Testament and you'll have a weirdly similar experience.
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Brother John
Your brain on …….?
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Pastor Warrick
The ongoing -- and unfortunate -- battle between the Sunni’s and the Shi’ites explains why it is pointless to send US troops to the Middle East. The core argument between the two has not been settled in 1,400 years and it won't be settled by us. No doubt most Muslims would like nothing more than peace and quiet, but the reality is that both Saudi Arabia and Iran are intent on spreading their dogma worldwide.
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Brother John
Your focus is on the smokescreen of religious conflict, not the reality that the ME "conflict" is about political hegemony and corporate profits. Saudi Arabia has been a western "ally" for many years. They are one of, if not the worst, offenders of human rights on the planet, yet it's their neighbours who have been "liberated" by the West. They are also the world's largest importer of weapons. Guess who's the #1 exporter? Sadly, it's not pointless. It's the opportunity to wage endless global war with it's blood money rewards for those in the business of war. Having enough people believing the propaganda is all that's required for it to continue.
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Shelli
I agree with Tony. Although your brief outline of the history of disagreement over succession of the caliphate provides a helpful backdrop, the article didn't even touch on theological differences. Most Shi'ites believe in the 12 Imams, the last of whom (called the Mahdi) is to return at the end of the world to bring peace and justice. This Messianic aspect of Shi'ism, to me, gives it a different flavor and future focus from Sunnism. How does that impact the faith, and are there common threads between this and the focus of some Christian Evangelicals on the end times? Could have been interesting.
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God and Jesus and Holly Ghost helper
The biggest mistake you can make is to be afraid to follow that inward witness which is the No. 1 way God leads all His children (Romand 8:14). So don't be afraid. Take time to listen today. Expect to hear in your spirit. God has something to say to you.
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Joanne
As hard as it is to avoid denigrating a religion's tenets, avoiding that at all costs is key to surviving this conflict. I may not like the approach a religion takes to controlling its believers, but I can settle that by not becoming one. There's not a religion on the planet that hasn't caused serious damage, and there's not a religion on the planet that hasn't seen shifts and changes over the centuries. I, for one, will go on accepting individuals (or not) based on their own behavior, not on what religion they espouse.
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Michael Brasch
Agree...self-transformation, not assent to religious doctrines, is the goal of spiritual life. Nam Myoho Renge Kyo
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Rick Bernardi
Religion is for the ego. It attempts to satisfy the basic fear within the ego. (I'm right. They are wrong.) Religion separates. True spirituality transcends the ego's needs and tells us we are all one. Ego is of the brain. Spirituality is of the spirit. I cannot be in ego and in spirit in the same moment.
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Peter Chappell
Here is a thought....organized religion is a good way to control the general population for their own good. Old Testament contained "rules" for eating food so that man did not get sick (unclean pork and milk). New Testament was created from a collection of stories and put together by the Niceane conference organized by the Roman emperor of the time...books according to Phillip Thomas, Mary etc. Were left out of the New Testament for whatever reasons...the bible was used to give the generally illiterate population rules to live by and "faith" that He will come again to judge good versus evil so you had better be good...the Romans tried to quell the anarchy and chaos of the population by creating the Roman Catholic Church..and surely Christians went too far with the crusades later on which is not too dissimilar to Islamic zealots today...however, today man has bigger weapons so the dissatisfied few can cause mass destruction...as opposed to the Crusades.....unless some equal force is supplied to "control" any zealot in today,s world, turning the other cheek and loving the aggressor could end up in annialation of entire populations....Death to America is Not a loving sign and is ignored at our own peril...this not to say that one religion is wrong or right....the inmates appear to be running the asylum
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Ted Prettyman
Weren't the crusades purposed to deflect the peoples' minds away from the poverty of the middle ages with a trumped-up holy cause spiced with the savor of possible riches? Clever of the roman pope, and the French (i think) king, to solve the problem of excess poverty-ridden population in Europe.
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Brother John
Your thought may have been more accurate by leaving off the "for their own good" part. There has always been collusion between religion and the regional rulers/elite to control the masses.
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one truth
What sort of pastor are you? A collection of stories? Paul' letters are stories? No they are letters and no reputable theologian would agree with you.. There is much in the new testament that speaks about you.
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V
It is hard for me to embrace a religion that wants me and my way of life dead.
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Rick Pascal
I think that as long as there is a strong, fanatical belief in religion in general there will always be conflict, i.e.,"My god is better than yours." As long as religion enters into political practice there will always be conflict. The human species must evolve away from belief that a supernatural, mystical, "man in the sky" calls the shots before world peace can begin to become a reality. After that, there will be battles for natural resources that cause conflicts and wars. Don't mean to be totally pessimistic, but we just have to live with the reality that different groups of humans (whether they differ in religion, class, origin or other political boundaries) will always be at odds with each other. The best we can do is try as hard as we can to be proponents of peace within our own particular area of influence.
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Brother John
Excellent points, Rick. Sadly, religion and politics are deeply intertwined as evidenced in world events today. Sadly, as long as greed, bigotry and racism exist, there will be conflict. Contrary to what many of us believe, humans may very well be the least advanced and most dangerous of the millions of species in existence and a serious threat to all life on our planet.
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Kenneth Littley
Your question: In the interest of Universal brotherhood, we at the Universal Life Church want to know what you think: How can we close rifts and built peace? In the case as described in your article, I suggest that we, as a religious entity, leave well enough alone. Even when, or if, Sunnis and Shias should want to discuss closing rifts and building peace we must leave that strictly to them. Only if individuals approach us should we lay down the tenets of our own universality for them to consider in their own time frames.
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Brother John
Agreed Kenneth, but there are many Bible verses to the contrary like these and evangelicals take them to heart.
Mark 16:15-16 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
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Nina Bonita
And you aren't doing the same going around "inviting" people to read the quran?! Hypocrite!
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bob wright
The alternative to not getting along and co-existing is total chaos and war. Pride can be a very dangerous thing
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Jim Bean
To be a mortal human requires some type of promise for the afterlife here. Without hope and religion the world would truly be in a state of chaos. So as long as there are humans on this earth they will be in conflict over their own personal gods.
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Brother John
Your statements seem to contradict one another, Jim. Conflicts over which god is real are the basis for much of the current chaos in the world (which is also real). An afterlife is a comforting belief, particularly for those who believe all sins, no matter how heinous, are forgiven and the reward of an eternal heaven granted to those with the right beliefs/god/religion after a single lifetime.
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Dragon Priest
These people have been killing each other since old Mohamed was poisoned by the Jewish s e X slave he had after murdering her husband. That conflict will never end until one or the other are eliminated and then they will come for us. So he left no clear successor and on his last sermon cemented women abuse for ever. I do not see any thing positive ever coming out of Islam. All there is now is death and destruction.
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Brother John
"These people" Paul? Try totalling all the deaths attributed to Muslims/Islam to Christianity/Western nations over the past couple of centuries. "That conflict" will end when Western countries stop invading and systematically destroying country after country. And who do you think is arming "these people"?
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Rev Warner
I believe that we are living in the last days, and the bible is fulfilling itself. All prophecy has to come to pass. Glory be to God.
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William A Roe
Rev. Roe Amen Things stated in the Bible have and are coming to past.
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tygress66
Unfortunately, due to the nature and teachings of Islam, imho the only way to achieve true, lasting peace in the Middle East and the world will be to eliminate Islam. This religion is not what it claims to be. Religion of peace, religion of tolerance? Only if all other religions of the earth are Islam! There is no peace or tolerance, the Koran does not teach these. Islam is the only religion I have ever come across that cannot and will not ever "coexist". They can't even coexist among themselves, let alone with people of other faiths. They refuse to acknowledge the validity of other people's beliefs and they refuse to live by the laws of the countries they are currently emigrating into. Even Satanists and most atheists, who vehemently reject religion, live in relative peace with others. But you will never hear of Satanists or atheists chopping off heads or blowing people up for the sake of their beliefs. This however, is everyday news with Islam. There will always be arguments over differing belief systems; we would not be human if we did not occasionally disagree. But when a belief system comes along that seeks to destroy the variety and vibrancy that makes us human, it must be done away with the same as any other cancerous affliction.
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Greg
That's not really true. You're generalizing fundamentalist Islam into Islam in general. A direct quote from the Koran: “There is no compulsion where the religion is concerned.” (Holy Quran: 2/ 256)
As stated in the verse, no one can be compelled to live by Islamic morals.
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tygress66
And yet these so-called "peaceful" Muslims in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc., will go after and EXECUTE former Muslims who convert to Christianity. Their own Koran instructs them to "kill infidels wherever you find them", and it also instructs them to seek out and kill apostates who abandon Islam for any other faith. In my own experience, I have never met a peaceful or tolerant, or even a "mainstream" Muslim. And the places I have lived have no shortage of Muslims. Show me where these peaceful, tolerant Muslims are, where I can find them, how I can meet them. Show me how they are tolerant of other religions and how they are happy to live by the laws of whatever land they have chosen to live in. Because I'm not seeing it anywhere I look. And God help me, I have been looking.
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Brother John
Holy cow Danna! Do you remember what started the current ME carnage? I'll give you a couple of hints… 9/11…. Weapons of Mass Destruction…. oil….. the multi-billion $ arms trade…. You're hearing (and obviously believing) a constant barrage of propaganda to promote the "Global War on Terror". If you'd like it to stop, quit with the bigotry you've displayed here and quit with supporting "the elimination of Islam".
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Chief Taina Amayi
"The ends justifying the means," has long been the excuse to perpetrate the most vile acts of violence throughout the world. In 1492, the Roman Catholic Church perpetrated terrorist crimes against the Indigenous Peoples of what is called the Americas. The Protestant sects then added to the attempted genocide of an entire race, and the over 500 Indigenous nations brought under the categorization of race. In Latin, the word religion means to "bind back," which implies spiritual repression at its darkest. Extremism in ANY religion leads to horrific deeds of violence and destruction in the name of its deity. The ends NEVER justify the means when it involves the annihilation of living beings. Historically, Christianity has a track record of terror equal to the decried terrorism of extremist Muslims. It is not wise to point a finger at others, when three fingers point back.
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Brother John
Some of the future generations of Indigenous survivors were subjected to Indian Boarding Schools in the U.S. and Residential Schools in Canada, operated principally by Christian missionaries of various denominations.
Regarding the pointing of fingers by Christians…..
Matthew 7:1-5 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."
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Rashid
This article never touched on the little groups that are outcasts within the Islamic faith. These groups, like ISIS have been killing way more Muslims than it has Christians. People hearing and reading articles like these only get partial truths to make a decission. Not their fault but faulty none the less.
Many muslims, myself included have taken a stand against these horrors. People generally don't see this in the news though. It's not great for ratings. The problem lies in the fact that others group all middle eastern and east Asians as violent. Then violence is often used against them so they have no choice but to turn to whover will defend them. These being groups like ISIS who will use them for whatever they can get. Like being caught in a trap.
As for the divission between the sects... The Qur'an' states “And hold fast to the Rope of Allah, and be not divided among yourselves” Quran 3:103. Like any believer, Muslims included can and do falter to customs, tradition and negativity. Much like being caught in a trap. As for the verse above I take it as a warning. That a believer in the Almighty should not stray from those who believe in the Creator (Christians, Jews and Muslims) and maybe even others.
Finally, The responses I've read to this article prove to me, however, that many of other faiths have fallen into the same trap as the Muslims. Seperating themselves from other believers will never further peace. It's sad!
Richard Heath
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William Waugh
My studies have led me to believe,that violent jihadist's should be exterminated. --By actively and aggressively destroying their logic. The fact is, they are a J.V. team. American leadership should include a genuine oratory that exposes their errors in historical interpretations and actions. And, in a timely manner, utterly destroy any remaining terrorists. Very important that the verbal assault from our highest leaders (the President) aggressively exposes the universally condemned concepts of this deranged bunch, while being certain that all statements flow from a NON-religious place, that leaves zero room for radical religious interpretation. ......and, by the way,to the extent applicable, George Bush left us with this mess by calling the invasion of Iraq, a crusade. And then laughing about comments on his intelligence by joking that he received an "intelligence report", every morning. Yes the current peace process is working and incorporates views from involved governments in the area but, an active, smart, accurate campaign could wrap this up more quickly by exposing these people as the idiots they are. The apparent conclusions of the current administration seems to be that they will just sit and wait, while the J.V. team "self actualizes" and rejects violent radicalism. Hello!, second world countries do not have the advantage of "the enlightenment"!
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Brother John
My humanity leads me to believe that all violence should be eliminated. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. It's sad to realize so many people are heavily and easily influenced by propaganda and bigotry when factual information is right at their fingertips. I encourage everyone concerned about the slaughter in the ME and elsewhere to do a couple of internet searches with minds open to the possibility that what you believe may not be true. "Who created ISIS?" and "Who arms ISIS" would be a good start. To keep the obscene profits from the Business of War to continue, there can't be a peaceful solution.
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Sam
For those of you who write against Muslims in general, I ask how many of you have any Muslim friends? Ignorance breads fear and hate. Love thy neighbour. There is hope. Look at Ireland. We need to stop judging, start excepting and spread love.
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Ray
Really ? So how is that Nothern Ireland thing working out ?
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Rev. Laurel
I do know a wonderful hard working young lady who got in county under a student visa and was able to stay and works hard. She and her sister were abandoned by parents during Bosnia war and grandmother raised them. Her sister has been denied a visitor's visa as possible terrorist connections. Sister here adheres to eating laws, but don't know of much else--no eating pork. Called her on that she smokes--she was a little taken aback having not thought of cigs as 'food'. But a sweet person who has survived a lot in her life.
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Ron Sheckler
My only prayer "God protect me from your followers ! "
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BARJONA
Christ asked just one person to feed his sheep: Simon Peter Barjona. Peter Co- authored the Gospels of Mark(except 16:9-20) and Matthew: Teaching only the words of Eternal Life as Jesus taught.
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Michael Brasch
Much of what we assume to be true is culturally determined and does not rest on fact. I doubt we can "close rifts and built peace" between/within any "Abrahamic" religion, let alone Islam. We need a new humanistic philosophy/religion which pursues social change for the sake of people's happiness and world peace. Always a seeker, I found Nichiren Buddhism. The main points of Buddhist Philosophy is "The oneness of mind and body", The oneness of humans and their environment", "The importance of supporting others as the gateway to one's own happiness". When you undertake to practice Buddhism, you stop looking for salvation outside of yourself. Every human...every thing...has an inner Buddha nature. Self-transformation, not assent to religious doctrines, is the goal of spiritual life. In the final analysis, whether or not we can confirm the validity of a life philosophy depends on the qualities we are able to manifest in daily life and society. Life is the stage on which one's Buddha nature is tested. Humans need to expand their states of life...raise their life conditions. Cause and Effect. We create causes through thoughts, words, and actions. You want different Effects? You need to create different Causes.
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Brother John
To clarify and avoid misconception, Islam, Christianity, Judaism are all Abrahamic religions worshipping the same God, regardless of the word used… Allah, God, Yahweh.. The Bahai and Rastafarians faiths are also Abrahamic.
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john
My community actively promotes interfaith activities. I have found this very profitable and my insight into Islam has certainly changed over the years. For example: • The Koran is sacred and a source of revelation, but the Bible too is considered a source of revelation in Islam. Some of the well-publicized and brutal penalties ascribed to Sharia Law (e.g. stoning adulteresses) are prescribed by the Bible, not the Koran. Consider the brutal criminal penalties prescribed in Deuteronomy and Numbers. Even Christian fundamentalist in Western culture no longer adhere to these penalties. • Sharia law varies with geography. Islam is geographically and culturally very diverse. Practice of the religion as well as application of Sharia law are markedly different for Africa, Persia, Arabian, Asia, and Southeast Asia. • “Jihad” is often cited in the Koran, but the meaning of the word varies. Almost invariably “jihad” refers to an internal struggle against our own ego or greed. Only once does “jihad” refer to physical violence – and that was referred to as the “lesser jihad,” and was followed by a caution that the inner struggle was of prime importance. If I were a Muslim I would certainly object to the distortion of jihad by the both the western press and religious fanatics. • Unlike what I learned in school, Islam has not “spread by the sword.” In Western history, Jews and Christians were often tolerated in Islamic lands, unlike the persecution suffered by Jews and Muslims in Christian lands – e.g contemporary references of the crusades capture of Jerusalem describe the slaughter not only of Jews and Muslims, but also Eastern Rite Christians. The implication is that practitioners of each of these religions resided in Jerusalem before the conquest. In most Islamic lands, forced conversion was not necessary. The voluntary spread of Islam can be followed around the world but the single most telling example may be the 13th century conquest of the Islamic lands by Genghis Khan and the atheistic Mongol hordes. Within 2 generations, the conquering atheistic Mongols had converted to Islam.
I am fortunate to live in a community with substantial interfaith activities and education. In other cities, I have been surprised to find less of a tendency for interaction and outright disdain for the ignorance of non-Muslims. I am surprised and disappointed that outreach is not a priority to much of the US Muslim community - we could all profit from such activities.
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Rashid
Excellent post!
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Brother John
Thank you for your informative post, john. There are "non-believers" living in all Muslim countries that practice Sharia Law, as it only applies to Muslims. The exceptions would be offences that affect Muslims such as selling alcohol, stealing, distributing pornography, etc. They are not forced to convert to Islam and live peacefully with their Muslim friends and neighbours. Those practicing an extreme fundamentalist version of Islam are not representing their religion any more than the KKK and Westboro Baptist Church are representing Christianity.
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Bren Cou
Very Powerful words and referring to the very last sentence you wrote (We create causes through thoughts, words, and actions. You want different Effects? You need to create different Causes.) If everyone would heed this the world would be a better place harmony in thought and vibration we are all vibration everything on this earth is frequency and vibration ...proven in science if in doubt look it up . Dr .Michio kaku everything is vibration Breaking down the universe in a nutshell
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Michael Brasch
Agree! Everything is vibration. Cause & Effect. Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo. "I dedicate my life to the mystical law of cause and effect through sound or vibration".
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JO-ANN
GOOD FOR YOU....MOST OF US DO.....however, you must realize that you are preaching to the CHOIR..... from Abraham came Ishmail and Isaac ....from Ismail came Muhammad and from Isaac...JESUS....NOW...from Muhammad came the split creating the SUNNI/SHITTE KORAN believing people...they are not the only problem in our world today...goodness knows if you have read anything lately about the corruption of our own government and the issues we have shoved down other nations....however, bottom line....we are a Nation that allows all to live and let live....free will....we do not advocate killing any religious group...THEY DO....this is a problem. I agree with Pastor Warrick...pointless to sacrifice our Men and Women for an on-going battle between them...because one believed one person should be in charge and others believed some-one else should be in charge...THIS IS WHY WE SEND OUR BOYS OVER THERE TO COME HOME WITHOUT ARMS AND LEGS AND EVEN MORE IMPORTANT PARTS....PLEASE... OK...so go preach this to them and get back to me.....in the meantime...I LEAVE YOU WITH THIS....GOD...OUR CREATOR IS IN CONTROL....HIS PLAN IS UNFOLDING .....In this do I trust and rely...Praise GOD Until....i will pray they have no....islamic terrorist training camps here....zero
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James Pace
Actually if the difference between the two is more a question of who should have been the successor to the faith, the split more resembles the difference between Gnostic and Catholic Christians....Gnostics believed the Mary should have been the successor because the was the first person that Jesus revealed himself to while the Catholics believed that Peter was the successor.....although the difference was more profound than the Sunni/Shiite split as there were practical differences as well......
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Douglas Jones
The whole point of this article and the comments are mute because it all boils down to TRUTH. Liars would have you look the other way and that's what people do. They all look at Islam instead of themselves. Jesus said, remove the plank from your own eye first. He also said, let no man deceive you. We are constantly deceived by people we know, love and trust so we are afraid to research the truth because we are afraid of what we will discover. We invaded Iraq and murdered half a million people to get revenge for something they did not do. We will invade Iran under the same premise because we are ignorant of the truth. GO AMERICA!
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Brother John
Awesome Douglas!! There is no excuse for self imposed ignorance with facts and information at our fingertips. Keep in mind that 9/11 is the source and justification for the entire GWOT, including the invasion of first Afghanistan then Iraq and on and on. The truth about this event is easily available for those who can overcome the urge to label any uncomfortable information as conspiracy theories.
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Metalmaiden
Christianity, Judaism, Islam all spring from the same roots. All sects of these religions have so much more in common than they have differences. That we are all one race, one people? trying to navigate this life is what the focus should be not on the small differences. Until we can look past being the who's right, who's wrong and accept other's differences but still live and work beside each other this will not end. It takes people to say enough is enough and stop the viscous cycle. I think people want this it is politics of power that want to keep this going.
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Brother John
Agreed that the Abrahamic religions all have the same roots (and god). But, no, we're not all one race. Racism is a key component in most global conflicts, along with it's ugly sister, bigotry. We are, however, all one species, or in ULC terms All Children of the Same Universe. Only through the global acceptance of this truth will we re-gain our lost humanity and avoid the very real possibility of the extinction of our species (bacteria and some others will survive our insanity).
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Doug Person
Micheal's explanation of Buddhist philosophy challenges most convention religions. All "Abrahamic" religions focus on a judgmental and even angry God that must be pleased. What if God didn't care about all these nuances? What if all religions see an imperfect reflexion of the same God. Even religions with multiple gods were actually seeing a different manifestation or reflection of the same God? What if all of God's creatures were simply his children and equal in every way? What if taking the life of any other of His children was, in fact, the greatest of sins? What if lying, deceiving, the selling of hate as a means of control over others, using God falsely to self-aggrandize; to make oneself seem somehow closer to God and able to speak for Him and thus superior and above all others - what if this too was a sin of the highest order? Here's a concept that challenges all religions: human-kind is incapable of truly knowing the nature of God. We have only the flawed writings of enlightened humans attempting to communicate that which the human mind is incapable of understanding. God is all. God is perfect. Electrons spin around a nucleus because He wills it to. Hydrogen fuses into helium in the heart of the sun giving us light and heat - because God wills it to be so. A universe exists as a result of a single instant of immeasurable time from an single, immeasurable point in non-space because God choose that there be such an event and somewhere, within the vastness that ensued, both energy and matter came to organize into an order that allowed Earth to form, animals of so many forms to evolve, and, ultimately humans to exist. All because God so willed it to be so. Now, look around and see the various forms that God is perceived to be. Through imperfect human eyes, perceived by imperfect human brains, we define God imperfectly. God reveals himself only to those that seek the oneness of all. The acceptance that we are all equally part of God's creation; that by seeking the pureness of the one, true God; baring ourselves, humbly and imperfect before him, can and will we ever know his essence. We all begin in spiritual darkness. Some, existing in that dark, emptiness, devoid of God's love, catch a glimpse of a distant light and know that their path must lead to that light. Others shun it. They choose darkness; they choose to be their own false beacon, beguiling the weak and the desperate with false hope. For those who seek with open hearts and willing spirits the true light of God's infinite love, the path of life is filled with joy and contentment. We become God's vessels, carriers of His love for all of his creation. We seek only to walk more closely to the light that is God's essence. We are conductors of his love and the more we conduct of his love the more we become part of His oneness. True vessels do not hate nor judge nor force beliefs. They forgive all - knowing that not everyone walks in the True Light; that false beacons persist and that all we can do is to offer guidance to the True Light where possible. The one who knells and prays, bowing his head humbly to the floor, reaches out spiritually to feel his connection to God. The one who kneels before the symbol of his belief and motions with his hands, also reaches out to God. There are so many ways humanity has devised to do the one thing each individual is so capable of: seek the true God. The semantic arguments of one understanding of God versus another pale in comparison to the truth. False beacons, false prophets, deceivers, and lie sellers all seek to distract us from the true path of light. For their's is the promise of an easy path. In truth there is only one path to the true Light. That of being the vessel of His love. To join the Oneness, to be selfless and generous; forgiving of all things; to express His love in kindness to others; to know the vastness of God's gift to us - his children, and to cherish it with respect and awe at its beauty. We all, His children, have one chance to tend the garden we have been given. If we do so poorly, bickering over words rather than seeing how we are drifting towards failure, then perhaps one day we will end and God will place his finger on another point in the nothingness and new a garden will spew forth. For each of us - choice still remains. The path to the true Light remains forever open to all who choose it.
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Douglas Jones
Doug, Lets go to congress. I want you on my teem.
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Douglas Jones
Now if I could just learn to spell.
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Brother John
I question your statement that "We have only the flawed writings of enlightened humans attempting to communicate that which the human mind is incapable of understanding."
Modern science has made huge advancements in our understanding of much of the Universe, which the "enlightened humans" were not capable of understanding. Much of their writings were indeed flawed. We now know that: the Sun doesn't revolve around the Earth; disease isn't caused by demons; the earth wasn't created before light and the stars; that the Universe is over 13 billion year old with new stars constantly being formed and that humans weren't formed from dust and breath, but rather evolved over millions of years to correct but a few of their Bronze Age beliefs.
Modern science doesn't necessarily deny the existence of a god, but also does not attribute anything they cannot currently prove or understand to one either. They are still searching for answers and accept that some may never be answered.
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A druid
Here in the U.S. we enjoy the luxury of having our laws separated from and independant of our religions. Muslim areas suffer sharia law as interpreted by their imams. Almost by definition, these two systems cannot begin to understand the other. If Islam could refrain from interfering in the realm of politics, we could refrain from interfering in Islam. Since they can't, we can't. This seems to suggest that we should strenuoulsy assist them in their pursuit of virgins and sherbet. Just a thought......
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Douglas Jones
Islam is a distraction and you all have too much time on your hands. We have a much greater threat than Islam and it's called the Federal Reserve.
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JO-ANN
THE FEDERAL RESERVE....wow..what power they have....an entitly onto itself...IS A CRASH COMING????...ISLAM IS A BIT MORE THAN A DISTRACTION..... According to End-Time Prophecy Author Joel C Rosenberg.....The Mahdi or Messiah is coming back at any moment...but they also believe that Jesus is coming but don't believe that he is the Son of God but raither the Mahdi's deputy who will force all the infidels to convert to Islam or be slaughtered....Jesus will establish GLOBAL ISLAMIC KINGDOM & impose SHARIA LAW.... they openly vow not to simply attack but, to annihilate the US AND ISRAEL.... They believe they are being guided by GOD...ACCORDING TO THE KORAN...and, the extremist are doing it now..... We Christians believe in BIBLE PROPHECY unfolding simultaneously with thiers....WAS NOT THE GOD OF ABRAHAM ..THE GOD OF ISACC AS WELL AS THE GOD OF ISHMAIL.. ONE CREATOR....ONE UNIVERSE
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Gallet Christ Sampu
Brothers and sisters, all your suggestion are aright in the way of humankind!!! Let me go with the Word and it is revealed in Quran:- Verily We created man of potter's clay of black mud altered, and jinn did We create a for time of essential fire. And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels; Lo! I am crating a mortal out of potter's clay of black mud altered. So, when I have made him and have breathed into him of My spirit , do you fall down, prostrating yourselves to him. So angel fell prostrate, all of them together. Except Iblis. He refused to be among the prostate. He said: Why should I prostate myself to a mortal whom You have created out of potter's clay of black mud altered? He said: Then go you forth from hence, for verily you are outcast. And Lo! The curse shall be upon you till the Day of judgement.
Brothers and sisters it is again revealed in Quran: And verily we send down for you revelations that make plain, and the example of those who passed away before you. An admonition to those who are pious.
God is the light of heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is a niche wherein is a lamp. The lamp is in a glass. The glass is a as were a shining star. (This lamp is ) kindled from a blessed tree, an olive neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow forth(of itself) though no fire touched it. Light upon light, God guide to His light whom He wills. and God speaks to people in allegories, for God is knower of all things.
Brothers and sisters it again revealed in Quran: And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and light, confirming that which was(revealed) before it in the Torah a guidance and admonition to those who are pious. Let the people of the Gospel judge by that which God has revealed therein. Whoever judges not by that witch God has revealed; such are evildoers.
Brothers and sisters ;To atone is to ransom, reconcile, expiate, redeem, reclaim, absolve, propitiate, make amends, pay the penalty.
Thus the atonement of Christ is designated to ransom men from the effects of all full of from Adam in that both spiritual and temporal death are conquered; their lasting effects is nullified.
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and Spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Receive us ; we have wronged no man, We have corrupted no man, we have defrauded no man, So let clean not harder but let clean smarter.
If not there is misguidance and ruin. This message is clear not by a meaning of man but always wait for the comforter to guide and lead us.
People are not patient to know and understand the truth that why there is calamities . I have a lot to write or to say to you but for the moment let me end with this word: My God shows is mercy upon all humankind upon all religions or sects to understand the truth(light) and to be save by having happiness and joy going love and justice; because nothing is new and God made like that. Have faith and don't lose hope. Have a great weekend.
May God bless all of you.
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William Waugh
The reality that this planet still suffers from some of the rigid and static, religiously imposed rules is clear evidence to me that the "lightbulb" in our brains, only burns dimly thru the vast majority of the Earth's population.
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Kathryn
I visited a Moslem country about 5 years ago. On the beaches of the Mediterranean were families swimming. The men were in Speedos, the women in burkas. This seems to be a metaphor regarding their view of the female sex. What some say is ' protection' of women is really a euphemism for subjugation. I have observed misogyny in most, if not all, religions,Christianity, Judaism, etc., but Islam is beyond most in its fevered desire to have a gender caste system. I have tried to be understanding, but the the more I see, hear and read the more I ask myself one simple question: I would NEVER ask any African-American to be tolerant of the Klan. Why should I be tolerant of a religion whose is so intolerant of me?
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Dragon Priest
Islam is all about slavery of the soul. Freedom is foreign to them. Why would anyone want to be a willing Muslim? Most are born and trapped into it and they have killed those that have tried to leave it. Nothing good can ever come out of it.
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Minister Nkanwi Fokwa Ambe
the etymology of religion lies with the Latin word religare, which means “to tie, to bind.” tie you to what is the question. the human soul is born with the inclination to express itself spiritually using the mode of its three-dimensional body freely. survive is our most basic instinct and experience is our most intrinsic intuition. "bigotry and blindness are a narcissist con." any system that takes you away from glorifying your existence in relation to nature in harmony with others beings for the duration you are physically conscious is retrogressive to humanity. i see alot of people singling out Islam here. proceeding from a basis of reasoning that because IS is made up of muslims and is a terrorist group, all muslims are terrorist, it would be logical to say "white" police officers have publicly killed a higher ratio of un-armed black males, therefore all "white" police police will shoot un-armed black males. this type of wild usage of contrived population statistics easily presents opinions as facts.
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Dragon Priest
Look at all current conflicts, wars and atrocities today and you will find Islam at its core. The problem is that book of theirs is being used to justify murder for its god... And it ain't the same as mine.
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Brother John
What you're saying is bigoted and ignorant, Paul. Why don't you get off your computer and go meet and talk with a few Muslims instead of this ranting? I'll be you could even find some living ex-Muslims who weren't killed. And heads up, my friend. Most Christians were born into their religion as well. Had you been born in Saudi Arabia you'd most likely be one of the extremist Muslims you're warning us about.
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Gallet Christ Sampu
Brothers and sisters, I would like to share with you the difference between Sunni and Shia islam is both tribes are different each one and the Sunni believe in the prophe Mohamad directly) and Shia believe on Ali who was closed to the Prophet. So How did Islam manage to achieve this?(suite) It stems to the core Islamic beliefs laid down in the Quaran and the Sunnah of the Prophet(Sallallahu alahi wassalam).
Allah SWT says in the Quran: O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. indeed , the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Surrah al-Hujurat(49:13).
Allah SWT has addressed all humanity in the verses of Quran-not one section alone such as male or female, black or white, young or old.
He reminds humanity that it shares a common Creator, a common ancestry despite the diversity of gender, race and geographical location.
He makes it clear that none of those things convey any inherent superiority of one person over another. Rather it is righteousness in terms of what one believe and does a that makes one person better or worse than another.
Beliefs and actions are the products of thoughts-so they are something any thinking person capable of undertaking actions is able to achieve.
It is the value of individuals based on merit and nothing else.
This view of belief in diversity of humanity is not confined to one verse. There are others, some which even describe the diversity as a sign for people of knowledge..
And of His signs in creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colours, indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge. Surah Rum 30:22
The Prophet SAW reinforced this view of humanity, race, belief and action in teachings. In his final sermon at Hajj he said: All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a no-Arab nor a non -Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.( reminder part)
So far Abdul Wahid wrote again: The manifestation of this in today's day and age is that if a Muslim put their tribal or national loyalty and bond above that witch Islam ordained, they would be doing something that both wronged themselves and was a divisive action.
This is clarified in the Qur'an when Allah commands Muslims to hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allah,(Islam) and not be divided among yourselves SurahAl imran:103. This alludes to a time before Islam came to Medina, when the main tribes of Banu Aws and Banu Khazra were at war with each other- with the various Jewish tribes holding the balance of power in terms of alliances they kept with either Arab tribe.
The society that Islam wants is the kind of society where people gather on their ideas and belief alone, such that the believers will have one united Ummahdespite their differing colours, languages, ecthnic backgrounds, tribes, so that it becomes one Ummah becomes like one body.
I will continue the rest as soon as can I and let this scripture inspire you more.
May God bless all of you
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JO-ANN
If what you write is the case..... then...... WHY ARE THEY SO OFFENDED BY OUR CHRISTIANITY....IF WE ARE TO LIVE AS ONE...WE MUST LIVE AND LET LIVE...AND RECEIVE JUDGEMENT FROM OUR OWN IDEA OF OUR CREATOR....not yours not mine.........NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE EXTREMIST AND CUTTING THE HEADS OFF OF CHRISTIANS.......BUT, NOW I HAVE READ SO MUCH WRITTEN BY PEOPLE WHO ARE TELLING US WHAT THE MUSLIMS BELIEVE ETC....I TRUELY DO NOT SAY THAT IN ALL HONESTY......I KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE ABOUT YOUR FAITH...EXCEPT...THAT THE EXTREMIST ARE GIVING YOU A VERY BAD NAME ....because.....ARE THEY NOT JUST EXPRESSING THE TRUTH OF THEIR BELIEFS TO THE LETTER???? I GET THAT YOU ARE SAYING THE KIND OF SOCIETY WHERE PEOPLE GATHER ON THEIR IDEAs for one united community....but, sounds like it must be yours or nothing.......we all live that way now.... with different ideas...colors...languages...etc....ITS CALLED THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA...and we have tried to incorporate all religions ...BUT, THIS MOVEMENT OF THE ISLAMIC EXTREMIST IS DETRIMENTAL TO OUR HEALTH...which is why you are having such a hard time selling your case ......give us some credit for not being that dumb...we read whats happening in GERMANY... EVERYWHERE ....WE ARE SIMPLY SAYING .....NOT HERE!!!! MAY GOD MEET US AT OUR CONFUSION
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Rashid
The problem is pride! To proud of any one faith. We say Happy Holidays to include everyone but the "non-denominational" Christian would be offended as it has to be their way! Extremist Christians in my opinion! Catholics have child molesting priests! Munks have a violent history as well. If we are to follow your ideas than let's just start ending life on earth. After all it seems you know better than the All Mighty himself. We all have violent people within our faiths! We should be reading our bibles, qurans and other books with OPEN hearts and minds like our books tell us. It tells us to be peaceful to one another! Not to blame the entire tribe for the sins of a few. There are limits that our Creator has set in our books to guide us. So if your gonna hear only the negative that makes the news, you keep your heart of stone! You will be the one answering for it anyway. We can get along! YOU just choose not to.
Muslim husband of Christian wife and Christian children
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JO-ANN
I CHOOSE TO TRY AND UNDERSTAND WHY YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE TRUELY UP AGAINST....WHAT IS HAPPENING IN GERMANY FOR EXAMPLE.... I try and understand why you feel you must threaten me here and now.....I am trying to understand why you do not do something against your extremist....to calm them down abit....I don't understand why you do not get that it is the EXTREMIST THAT ARE KILLING CHRISTIANS and all that we have been told is the end of the story does not look good for the infidels....what are we to think....what are we to think.....WHAT ARE WE TO THINK....what does your wife think as a christian??? get along...ok...just please tell the extremist to NOT RAPE OR KILL me ..ok....I choose to get along withy anyone who is not meaning to hurt me..who has not said .....SHOUTED....he is out to get me...now come on...please answer that...what are we to think...are you asking me just to ignore the SHOUTS OF DEATH TO THE AMERICANS.... AGAIN...I AM TRYING TO UNDERSTAND...PLEASE UNDERSTAND WHERE I AM COMING FROM....AND, MAY GOD MEET US AT OUR CONFUSION....LOVE JO-ANN
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Rashid
1 Wow! I had to read my own post as you left me a bit confused. Has anyone ever told you that you tend to exagerate? I never threatened you! Or anyone else for that matter. What I see is the news tends to do the same. Whether it be from tv, radio or gossip. The juicier the better.
My point was that you want to illiminate Muslims. What's next... Jews? How about atheists? There will always be someone to pick-on.
As far as those shouting death to people, yes I do believe they should be dealt with and swiftly! It is written in both the Qur'an and the Holy Bible to not let people pillage your community. But to terminate all Muslims for the acts of a few is wrong. My point was to show that if this idea or thumping is right then that would mean the end of life on earth as there is also extremist christians such as the KKK and other right-wing groups. But if you attempt to say they are not Christians because of their activities then by your own definition you must also exclude those extremists from our faith and stop calling for and end to Islam. What are we to think?
Sorry, but I trust God more than any human idea! Even my own!
2 News has to be juicy. Lies spread quickly and truth tends to be forgotten. The majority of us are quiet , calm and try not to get into conflict. Just like other Christians, Jews, etc. Many have moved their families to calmer places like the US, Germany, etc. However warmongers like yourself tend to look for issues to pick and infect to cause strife in others lives! For these kinds of people their is no life without DRAMA! Religion is a touchy subject that always gets the reaction.
3 I am not the Muslim I wish I was, but I strive for it everyday. To better myself, my family and the community in which I live. This said, I'm about to say something our book tells us not to do, this results in losing our reward in the heavens due to boasting, though this is not my intention!
Many people say we don't do any good. Stop looking at the rummors and see. We donate to many charities, families, individuals, groups and even churches of other faiths. Examples? CAIR in Baltimore working with the NAACP and the ACLU. AAANY, MARC , etc., raised funds to rebuild multiple Christian churches in the south in 2015. This is even online at the website www.christiantoday.com website.
4 I support the decissions of my wife and children in their faith. We go to church together on Sundays and I don't have a problem with them. They are kind, friendly and yes, they do know I'm a Muslim. As for us getting along... We are diverse in our beliefs but have agreed to celebrate the holidays together regardless of our faiths. There is things I cannot do as a Muslim as well as things my wife and children cannot do as Christians. We agree that we obey God and raise our children to do the same. We have NO arguments over faith. We get along just fine. I just wish others can experience it too.
Peace and blessings.
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Brother John
I chose to leave the ULC forum last year due to the FREQUENT RANTING and proselytizing in the comments. It's seems to have been abated to a degree, probably due to increased moderation. However, I've already noticed some familiar commenters from the past, including JO-ANN, who had been repeatedly been reminded that typing in caps is the equivalent of shouting in person. It's rude and not conducive to rational discussion. Regarding your obvious concerns about rape, JO-ANN, how far down this list do you have to go to find a Muslim country?
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rape-rate
Who, other than yourself, is SHOUTING? Yes, fundamentalist extremists have given some people a negative view of Muslims, but these are often those infected with a substantial amount of bigotry who are anxious to denigrate others. Christian extremists (Westboro Baptist Church and the KKK for example) do the same for Christianity. Fundamentalist extremists are by definition not indicative of their overall group.
There was no opportunity to congratulate Rashid for his thoughtful, honest reply… Well done, brother! It would be awesome to have a few more Muslims on this forum to counter the exaggerations and misinformation that sometimes appears.
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William Waugh
Jo-ann, my take on your confusion is that there are fundamentalist christians that may well be just as destructive as the jihadists if they had the opportunity. Thankfully, our post-enlightenment society pushes these concepts to the fringe. Unfortunately, some modern middle-eastern societies do not.
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Brother John
Instead of RANTING here JO-ANN, why don't you use the same computer you're using to post to educate yourself about Islam and Muslims instead of relying on what the comments here and elsewhere are saying? You are correct in saying that not all Muslims are extremists. No Muslim who follows the teachings of the Koran are "cutting off heads" just as the KKK or other white supremacist groups are not representing Christians.
Do you think these folks may be reasons for people to believe Christianity is corrupt, disrespectful and possibly an abomination? How many Muslim televangelists like these can you find? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGTyC86eWbw
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William Waugh
Bravo, Rashid! Now, contemplate this. The ULC could not have initially emerged anywhere else but it the U.S. It is the virtual equal to a group of like minded folks, circle sitting in the sun, contemplating the wonders of existence. Each with a different book, or no book. Myself, I guess, probly mostly agnostic. I can wrap my head around an initial creative force of the universe, but, I calculate that the arc of my spiritual quest is longer than current human lifespans. Having said that, I thank (God) for the protections of state against any murderminded fundamentalist of any stripe.
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Brother John
I'm not sure why you believe that the U.S. is the only logical birthplace for a group like the ULC when a number of other countries rank lower for government restrictions on religion, other than it's principally an English speaking country. http://national.deseretnews.com/article/4157/the-best-and-worst-countries-for-religious-freedom.html
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William Waugh
Brother John, --nice article. I truly don't know if any of the other large and successful interfaith churches originated elsewhere. My assessment was based largely on the concept of american exceptualism. ---in this post recession (for that matter post apocolyptic) world. Very few of the "masses" (anywhere) really get it that ISIL is (really is) a J.V. team. -----read between the lines-----Be still, and know that I AM (God). Let them with ears, comprehend.
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Gallet Christ Sampu
Brothers and sisters! I would like to focus on ''what is the difference between Sunni and Shia?'' But let me correct the name of the Prophet (Muhammad).
so Sunni believe in the Prophet Muhammad
Shia believe in Ali who was partners with the Prophet.
Thank you Jo-Ann , so let me share with you this:
Islam doesn't cancel races, languages,and religions,makes them member sand parts within this one body; they move with that body towards a common goal,in a way that none of the roles of any parts of the body is canceled or conflicts with other parts.
Even beyond this, in this Islamic state that originated in Medina, he managed to take the strength of this one body; they move with that originated in Medina,he managed to take strength of this brotherhood of Ummah, as the basis of creating a sense of citizenship,by giving worth and values to non -Muslim citizens who signed up to his constitution- the Sahifah al Medina- and paid the jizyah tax.
A few years ago, I saw( Abdul) a powerful example about how these Islamic ideas Cancelled racially motivated anger and hostility, in a dramatic and rapid way.
The was conflict between the black community and Asian community one UK city. The Asian community was made up of largely Muslims and Sikhs and tensions had become heighten to the point that sectarian conflict seemed inevitable.
Amongst the Asian community there was a lot of generalization about black people which was heightening the chance of sectarian conflict.
A group of Muslims circulated a leaflet entitled Bilal was black man targeting the Muslims from the Asian community, addressing the racial aspect of conflict. The effect- of they title above all else-had an immediate effect to diminish the racial aspect of the conflict for the Muslim community ,and so put the other issues of disagreement in perspective. It was a powerful example of how a reference to Islamic-beliefs and history had an effect-even amongst non- observant Muslim youth.
thank you for the moment and may God bless all of you
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JO-ANN
ROMANS 9-31........What shall we then say to these things? "IF GOD BE FOR US, WHO CAN BE AGAINST US?"
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JO-ANN
DEAR RASHID...... I OPTED TO BE APART OF ULC....PEOPLE THAT COULD BELIEVE WHAT THEY WANTED...CONTINUE DOWN THEIR OWN PATH...AND, SHARE WHAT WE BELIEVE AND GAIN KNOWLEDGE...I do not want a replica of whats happening abroad.....mY IDEA to Eliminate MUSLIMs...simply saying what i have read....about the religion........that being said...MY VERDICT IS STILL OUT AS TO WHAT I DEEM AS TRUTH....BUT, THAT IS MY FREE WILL.....AND, I HONOR YOURS....as a fellow minister in the UCL ...OPEN HEART....YES.....HEAD IN THE SAND....NO!!! ..........AND, IF I am paying attention to any news thats negative..it is that ISLAMIC EXTREMIST ARE AMONG THE REFUGEES THAT ARE BEING LET IN THE US...I choose the BIBLE...YOU CHOOSE THE CORAN......thats not the issue the religion we have chosen....its not an acceptable excuse as to what is happening... GOD HAS MET US AT OUR CONFUSION... OUR CREATORS STORY UNFOLDS. I do understand not all Muslims are Extremist....I am not convinced that there is not an agenda THAT IS NOT GOOD FOR THE INFIDELS...BUT, LET THAT GO....IN GOD DO I TRUST AND RELY...I PRAISE YOU AND THANK YOU GOD THAT YOU ARE IN CONTOL even when we can't see the answer.
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Rashid
You Stated... "...I choose the BIBLE…YOU CHOOSE THE CORAN..." This is not correct. A Muslim CANNOT be a Muslim unless he/she also accepts the Holy Bible.
I will quote from one website and give the reference. You can research this more if you desire, or you can ignore it. It's your choice. Either way, know this... I am friendly to all that are peacefull. But I am a lion to those (like ISIS) that harm the innocent. I mean you no harm and extend my hand in friendship. May God bless us and keep us safe!
"The Qur'an does not reject reading the Bible. Instead, it gives many positive references concerning the Bible and the importance for Muslims to read it:
"Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light" (Sura 5:44).
"And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil)" (Sura 5:46).
"It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)" (Sura 3:3).
"And be not thou of those who deny the revelations of Allah, for then wert thou of the losers" (Sura 10:95).In addition, the Qur'an calls the Bible the Word of God (kalam Allah) in Sura 2:75, the Book of God (kitab Allah) in Sura 2:101; 3:23; 5:44; 28:49, and the enlightening book in Sura 3:184. Further, the Qur'an teaches that Allah Himself sent the Law (of Moses) and the Gospels: "It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)" (Sura 3:3).
The Qur'an calls the Bible, or parts of the Bible, a light (Sura 5:44, 46), an example (Sura 11:17), and a warning (Sura 17:4). It also states that the authors of the Bible were inspired (Sura 4:163; 5:111).
In many places and a variety of ways, the Qur'an's teachings overwhelming support the importance of the Bible and permit Muslims to read and learn from it."
Source: http://www.compellingtruth.org/Quran-reject-Bible.html
Peace and blessings, Rashid
PS As you see above, I do believe in the same God. We just practice our faith differently.
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JO-ANN
WOW...IS THAT THE TRUTH ....THAT YOU CAN NOT BE A MUSLIM UNLESS YOU ALSO ACCEPT THE HOLY BIBLE....amazing....thank you Rashid for taking the time to explain so much....I HAVE GAINED KNOWLEDGE.....very interesting.....LOVE JO-ANN
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Brother John
JO-ANN…. HAVE YOU TRIED TURNING OFF THE AUTO CAPS LOCK ON YOUR KEYBOARD?
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Brother John
With the call for modern day Crusades to stop the Muslim horde from taking over the Universe growing louder, it's time to once again call on Prester John to come to the rescue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prester_John
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Dark Gray
"Both Sunni and Shia Islam share most of the core values of Islam and largely believe in maintaining similar practices."
It's my understanding that they often worship at the same mosque.
"The rift between the two, at least from an outside perspective, definitely appears to be more historical/political ... than it does theological."
I made that same point at a lecture I attended on Islam. The speaker replied, "For Sunnis, it's political. For Shiites, it's religious." Interesting difference.
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johna
I may be wrong,but does not the Koran say that Christians and Jews are people of the book and are to be left in peace.
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Rashid
Here are some versus in the Qur'an regarding that..
Compassion, mercy, modesty and justice: … You will find the people most affectionate to those who believe are those who say, 'We are Christians.' That is because some of them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant. (Surat al-Ma'ida, 82)
People of the Book having moral precepts: Today all good things have been made lawful for you. And the food of those given the Book is also lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. So are chaste women from among the believers and chaste women of those given the Book before you, once you have given them their dowries in marriage, not in fornication or taking them as lovers. But as for anyone who disbelieve, his actions will come to nothing and in the hereafter he will be among the losers. (Surat al-Mai'da: 5) Muslims must respect Jewish and Christian places of worship: …if God had not driven some people back by means of others, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, where God's name is mentioned much, would have been pulled down and destroyed. God will certainly help those who help Him - God is All-Strong, Almighty. (Surat al-Hajj: 40 ) Common ground: O People of the Book! Let us rally to a common formula to be binding on both us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God. (Surat Al 'Imran, 64) Just to place a few. Hope this helps, Rashid
Ho
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JO-ANN
INFIDELS??? (non-believers) We both believe in GOD...ONE GOD....with IRRECONCILABLE differences in the stories written in the CORAN VS BIBLE.....like any other religion or sect....that believe in their own interpertations of GOD and his unfolding story....HOWEVER....that is why all religions up to this point have been able to dwell in the UNITED STATES.....so why do they shout death to the infidels....WE ARE BELIEVERS.....leaves me to sumized that its in these difference thats causing ... the shouts that you are an INFIDEL....IF YOU ARE NOT BELIEVING THE MESSAGE OF THE CORAN......thats what I get after days of research....and according to MICHAEL SAVAGE...they are not just killing CHRISTIANS...but, also...MUSLIMS...that are not TRUE enough. We are merely a summation of what we were taught as children and exposed to as adults.... so please don't kill the messanger....just trying to be a succourer....and, wrap my head around...why the extremist are doing what they are doing...in the name of GOD...acccording to Ivan Baxter(ETM) THE Euphrates War could start at any time....this will only add to the REFUGEE CRISIS.....I BELIEVE THAT WE DO BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD....BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD....and, our problems do not derive because we call him YAHEWH OR ALLAH...but, raither in the message regarding what to do with those who do not want to follow your version....of GOD'S message to us humans. "THANK YOU FOR THE DIALOGUE" RASHID.... Now, "the GOD of Peace be with you all. AMEN" (ROMANS 15:33)
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William Waugh
Religion was mans "first" attempt to understand the universe. Complete with a flat earth, sun and stars circling around, sacred mountains and rainbows. Let's not forget the promise of virgins and nirvana to those who fall in battle. Wake up and smell the coffee. -----historically, these folks only know; I've got my sand dune, you have yours. Now you are dead and I have your sand dune and women too. They are "Klingons" on steroids. ------speaking of the 'jihadist'. ------hopefully, the everyday Muslims (peaceful believers) will have the opportunity to share this world with the rest of us. I don't want to kill them, the jihadists want to KILL us. That's you and me. Christain and agnostic.--------by the standard of modernism, and enlightenment, they have proven themselves to be like feral animals.
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JO-ANN
I am hoping that the Muslims that are peaceful (not TRUE ENOUGH for isis) are also spared the hand of isis as well........It is all about GOOD AND EVIL.....AND, FREE WILL and where you were born. Palms 37:10 A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy peace and prosperity....LOVE TO ULC PASTORS..MAY WE CHOOSE TO STAY IN THE LIGHT as we converse.
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William Waugh
You keep right on quoting applicable scripture. Aside from your continued use of CAPS!, I think, you are getting it pretty good. Often, a whisper goes further than a shout. ---unless you are the likes of Limbaugh or Savage, leading the self identified disenchanted, like a pied piper, to their graves. By giving these folks a vent for their anger, less of them shoot things and people. "Be still, and know that (I am) God"--------------I do not know, but I seriously doubt, that Rashid and his wife subscribe to right wing commentaters newsletters.
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Brother John
Since 2009, Savage has been barred from entering the United Kingdom, for allegedly "seeking to provoke others to serious criminal acts and fostering hatred"
Here's part of what he said to an on-line caller that resulted in his firing by MSNBC….
"Oh, so you're one of those sodomites. You should only get AIDS and die, you pig; how's that? Why don't you see if you can sue me, you pig? You got nothing better to do than to put me down, you piece of garbage? You got nothing to do today? Go eat a sausage, and choke on it."
You'd be far better off absorbing what Rashid has to say and going to the source he provided than goons like Savage.
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Marcel French
The stats and politics of it all is a distraction. To solve a problem like this all extremist in all religions should not be permitted to exist. Every time a blind eye is turned or those who wish to see this kind of evil put to an end fail to take action it gets worse. So if your going to be prepared for something be prepared to prevent extremist from terrorizing the world whenever and however possible.
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William Waugh
That's why we are called progressives. It takes a while for folks like the KKK, to die off.
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Gallet Christ Sampu
Bro Jo Ann , in this case of against one each others was inevitable by creating tribal discrimination of tribes. That affected political classes, civilians and others religious team. Just focus on reading the good news and you will be assisted by the comforter to let you understand what you need to know for your right understanding. Everything comes in and goes out by prayers. Peace.
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Paul
We all know that Islam and Christianity have similar roots, and in this there may be a solution.
Years ago we had the Protestant reformation of the Church, and Martin Luther 98 theses, and many other events that changed Christianity from a religion of hate against all others and those that believe in the faith differently. Such as the end of the Holy Wars, etc.
The same thing will need to happen for Islam to stop the fighting, and hate towards others. However we know that the hanging of 47 is small compared to what will happen to those that want to put something such as this forward. Many thousands will likely be killed before there is even any talk about becoming for the most part moderate to each other and those of other religions. History tells us this, and is a good idea of how things will shape up in the future.
All the information that I have received over the years on Islam has led me to develop a zero tolerance for Islam. Mostly provoked by the jihad they have waged on Western culture.
The beheading of Christians and the current hostile take over of our culture and religion has put me on guard. While it is nice to know the difference between the Sunni's and the Shi'ites it is immaterial as long as the jihad and threat to me and my family exists.
Just the fact that we 47 terrorist training camps in the United States is enough to keep us all in guard. The Federal government checks into everything else that poses a threat and have allowed these camps to exist. As long as the jihad exists and the government remains complacent I will have zero tolerance for Islam.
Agree
It's easy to understand your fear. However, saying you have "zero tolerance for Islam" because an extremely tiny percentage of Muslims want to wage war is a lot like someone in Iran saying all Christians are evil war-mongers because some tiny percentage want to nuke all of Iran into the desert. Hate breeds more hate. Wouldn't it be better to focus on the select few who actually mean you harm, than to alienate all Muslims and make them your enemy?
I didn't call for nuking anyone nor did I attempt to generate "hate" of any kind. Muslims are taught to deceive "infidels" to achieve their order.
In the movie/play the towns people asked the Rabbi to issue a proper blessing for the Tzar.
The Rabbi thought for a moment and said, "God bless the Tsar and keep him far away from us.".
That is is my blessing for Muslims.
I failed to name the movie/play. It was Fiddler on the Roof.
A wonderful insight that! The entire specious argument that this large body of peaceful muslims somehow ignoring the more outrageous passages in the koran, will prevent conflicts between islam, and the mainstream. It does not happen. The moment their communities are established, changes are sought in the affairs of the majority. Their amazing fecundity invariably begins to imperil democracy as well. It is time in the United States that the Supreme Court codify the rights of individuals to be UNTOUCHED by practitioners of any religion. I am supremely annoyed by the audible muezzin call eminating from mosques, and my right to quiet outrumps theirs to announce publically their presence.
I agree. It's so easy to hate. Hate comes from fear and lack of understanding. We must be open to the fundamental beliefs, before we make judgements.
Fundamentalists are easy to understand: "It's my way or the highway." This applies to that ilk in any group, religious, political or national. It especially true with the armed groups of lunatic theology or social philosophy. Too many of them are of this ilk. Just a thought.
They are not open to our fundamental beliefs
It may be more accurate to say fundamentalist beliefs. No rational, informed person would accept them, no matter what label was attached.
It may be a small percentage but that small percentage actually equals millions of Muslims that are extremist in the USA. Wake up and stop saying small percentage and look at the numbers. It is close to 18 million extremist Muslim worldwide and close to 5 million in the.US
Good point.
No, actually a completely made-up point with no basis in fact. Empirical estimates are that there are less than 2 million Muslims TOTAL in the U.S.
And a microscopic number are extremist.
Do they exist? Yes. Do they pose a threat? Yes. Do all Muslims pose a threat? Nope, and not nearly as much a threat as bigotry armed with made up statistics.
I checked your information Ken and it's seems your alarm may be based on exaggerated numbers and unfounded fears. With less than 1% of the U.S. population Muslim and most of the "extremists" weeded out in the immigration process, there's no reason to believe Muslims are going to take over the U.S. and enforce Sharia Law. If you read the results of this well documented world wide survey, you'll also find that the countries that support Sharia Law happen to be those the West have been systematically destroying (and no doubt increasing extremists views), while other reject it. You'll also find that the majority of Muslims on a global basis do not support ISIS.
I recommend this article for everyone as it provides a factual overview of Islam and it's followers and dispels many of the current misconceptions and propaganda. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/07/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/
Here's a another well documented report confirming that more than 90% of the terrorist attacks in the U.S. have been carried out by non-Muslims. http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-muslims-carried-out-more-than-90-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619
Muslims aren't oppressors. Are you people blind to the terrible things that happen to them. Yes there are bad Muslims too just as there are bad Buhddists, Christians and Jewish people. People seem to always turn a blind eye to the terror attacks on Muslims. But if a Muslim does such an act to a Christian, Buddhist or Jew its all that anyone ever talks about. And yet people say that they are judgemental and close minded.
I have asked them that same Q. Privately they will say Islam overrides anything, which means they will kill over their religion which completely controls their lives. So a peaceful Muslim is a lie they must tell us infidels. I personally think Mohamed was met by the devil in disguise.
That clearly is the mind of some Islamists. But we need to remember the "Holy Inquisition" wherein a Christian sect thought it permissible to burn dissenters at the stake; of course they would blame the state...
You want to "remember" something that happened 500 years before you were born. Remember the Boston Marathon bombers, the World Trade bombers and the slaughter at San Bernardino. That's today not 500 year old history. You do realize Christianity went through a Reformation and the entire world went through the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution EXCEPT THE MUSLIMS!
You guys have to stop the pixie dust and unicorn sweat and get with reality or you'll be slaughtered like cattle
Ironically the Golden Age of Islam with it's advances in science, mathematics, medicine, astronomy and more was taking place while Europe was mired in the Dark Ages.
False flag events have been used to create fear, submission and compliance by using the ever popular Ordo ab Chao or Problem/Reaction/Solution method. See #10 on this list as it relates directly to the on-going GWOT and Islamaphobia.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Terrorism/10_False_Flag_Operations.html
This list includes links for further verification… http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/41-admitted-false-flag-attacks.html
Greg You really can't believe ISIS jihad are just a few of the Muslims. They are not waging war on us. They are planning on taking us over from within. Oboma is doing that as we set on our Asses. We sat and watched one woman take prayer out of our schools. You expect us to set and watch them cut our heads off because we love Jesus Christ. If you don't like us standing up for our freedom then go over to the middle east and live. Pastor Daryl Wake Up America
The road to enlightenment is not short. And it is filled with many potholes. The forces against ISIL are winning. "Be still, and know that I AM (God)" ----the more you know!
On the contrary, I am standing up for our freedom. I believe in your freedom to love Jesus Christ, just as I believe in the freedom of Muslims to worship Mohammed. I believe in the freedom of religion, the way our country was created. One woman didn't take prayer out of our schools, the entire country did, because forcing everyone in schools to follow one religion, regardless of which one you choose, violates the Constitution. Please don't suggest that those who follow the precepts of the founding of our country leave it. You're being controlled by your hate and paranoia. Accept the love of your saviour and spread that love, like a responsible Christian.
Excellent points Greg. Here's a history lesson for all those purporting that America was founded as a Christian nation. http://www.alternet.org/story/155985/5_reasons_america_is_not_--and_has_never_been--_a_christian_nation
For those scoffing at the "alternative media", here's a CNN article for confirmation (published on July 4 to boot). http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/living/america-christian-nation/
Greg, I agree with your thoughts but I have to point out something... In the Qur'an, God commanded Muhammad to say this... "Say (O Muhammad): 'I am only a man like you. It has been inspired to me that your God is one God. So whoever hopes for the Meeting with his Lord, let him work righteousness and associate none as a partner in the worship of his Lord.'" (The Qur'an: al-Kaufman 18:110) and "O people, say what you have to say and do not allow Satan to fascinate you. I am Muhammad, the slave of Allah (God) and His Messenger. I do not like you to raise me above the status at which I have been placed by Allah (God), Noble and Magestic is He." (Musnad Ahmad: 13596) There are others referring to the same instruction.
What you see from the above is a verse from the Qur'an and from the Hadith (source of guidance) that point out Muslims should not worship Muhammad. It is God alone that we seek. Although, there are groups like some Shiites for example, that pray to others.
I know this thread is old but i wish to say, that even so called "peaceful sufis" who claim to be based on love and follow the Persian poet Rumi are fundamentalists operating in Pope Valley california on a fundamentalist Muslim compound. How do i know this? I went to a new age "universal dance of peace" and they tried to recruit me but later started teaching the quran and imposing a Scientology like confessional whereby you tell them all so they can extort money and fidelity to islam from you. My friend who actually was going to join finally woke up when he saw the women in Pope Valley wearing hijabs and serving the men. I woke up waaaay before that. I realized immediately when their homosexual misigynist"teacher"lol, "pat" another lol tried to tell me i am shaitan-the devil bc i am feminist and beautiful. I was very young but not that impressionable. I declared them a cult and frauds for lying to convert people to Islam. I should never have gone out West it's lala land. New Yorkers are smart-except for trump who clearly is Not a native-he grew up in New Hampshire lol-we new yorkers realise things a lot quicker than the loons in lala land. So islam Does pose a threat to every fruit and nut in California and basically that is almost the entire population or else why would they stay there?! All fundamentalists are insane and pose a threat incluing crazy baptsts. But at least christian wackos don't lie. The islam fundamentalists are trained subversives. They will brainwash with kindness no fire and brimstone and before you know it californians will be wearing hijabs. Now that they can smoke pot and become even more stupid and crazy it is a bigger threat than ever that goes for the pacific northwest residents too. Especiakly seattle-they didnt save anyone from that landslide a few years ago bc they looked and moved like they were on qualudes - no doubt the weed. I mean seriously the whole u. S is screwed up except New York and some of the northeast coast.
Wow Daryl. Get a grip brother! Do yourself a favour and google "who created ISIS" for starters. You'll find the answer, from many different reputable sources, shocking. Regarding beheadings, it may also surprise you that our closet ally in the Middle East beheads far more people than ISIS as the legal system there is the dreaded Sharia Law. They're also one of the world's largest importers of weapons. Guess who's the world's largest exporter of weapons? Guess where ISIS gets the bulk of their weapons?
I agree with you brother…. it's time to Wake Up America!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-executions-amnesty-international-beheadings-death-sentences-rate-under-king-salman-10470456.html
Fear has nothing to do with it. Just look at what they do in the name of their god. Some people are slow to learn/accept; to their own peril. Maybe they will have second thoughts when they survey the destruction of their world. Let us pray for enlightenment to arrive on time.
Define a "tiny percentage"of at least 1.5 billion individuals around the world. How many of that.number does it take to kill THOUSANDS. We've already seen how that goes.
Ignorance. The 1.5 refers to the amount of Muslims. Not the amount of terrorists. The majority of us Muslims are peaceful, law abiding citizens. We intergrate well, work and care for others.
Just like in any group, there will always be those that work for their own gain. Such people are gang members, politicians, thieves and yes even the so called religious pastors and members of churches.
How are these people in your community? Because these people are generally bad shall I also name you bad because you fit within that community?
I fit within an islamic faith. Does that make me a terrorist? I doesn't any more than you in your community or groups that you identify with. So when you say 1.5, remember that the number is WAY smaller than you are trying to embellish. You can't and shouldn't remove a group because of a few. It's not even a majority for this to be acceptable. Think WWII Nazi Germany. Should the whole white race be extinguished because of the few?
Yes, you say "how many of that number..." but you still degrade the remainder. Let me explain something... Most the world sees the US as people that meddle in others peoples business. We live here and we know better. Politicians are at fault for this. Does that make all Americans nosey? No! We are within the group and are identified as such. Identified by ignorance and not fact!
To Rashid:
My earlier comment needs to be corrected to refer exclusively to the so-called terrorists. Please accept my apologies for the slight.
Thank you for your generous response.
My PROBLEM with your faith is that it is acceptable to LIE in order to convert people to Islam. If you can accept That about your faith how can i trust anything you say?! Lying to convert people to islam happens every day. It almost happened to a friend of mine. They tried to recruit me-HAHAHA a feminist New Yorker-but they were too stupid to realize you cannot put anything past a smart New Yorker-that's why most muslims are in the midwest or california-it's easier for you out there.
There are NOT 47 Islamic terrorist training camps in the United States. Please site a credible source for your belief. If you are speaking of domestic terrorists like the Bundy family, I would not disagree with you
And if they exist, they're probably run by the CIA, which trained the terrorists we're currently engaged with.
And they vote.
Elizabeth has been doing some homework. Islam is a distraction from the real truth.
Please site a credible source showing the Bundy family are domestic terrorists.
And where did you get your information for such a statement?
Consider that everywhere Islam infects, they kill all others. Egypt was a Christian country until the Muslims killed almost all of them. Iran was invaded by the Muslim hordes and look what it is today. So much for the peaceful religion lies. Just see what happens when they take over. Frankly i wished Mohamed would have jumped off the mountain when he was being tormented by the demon that he later said was the angel.
The use of hyperbole destroys the credibility of any point or argument, Paul. You should have used Saudi Arabia (our ally in the Middle East) for your example as they're listed as 100% Muslim, use Sharia Law as their legal system and behead more people than ISIS ever will. It may surprise you to find that the majority of Muslims have chosen Islam as their religion. With Muslims representing a whopping 1% of the U.S. population (not exactly a horde), why would you even suggest that they're going to "take over" let alone issue an urgent warning? http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0855613.html
There’s a Christian sect of Domestic Terrorist that have been here; way before we ever heard of ISIS. They have harmed more Americans than ISIS and I’m more worried about them. If you want to fight or talk about hordes look at the KKK, Skinheads, and White Separatists. We need to be talking about cleaning up our own back yards first. These are so-called Christian organizations and part of your reformation Hoagie and Paul. You also don’t have to look to find any to their resent exploits. Where is the 0% tolerance for them?
Brother ron, i feel realky sorry for you. I travel and earn my living studying world cultures. Trust me when i tell you the reason for so many adherents to islam is lies and brainwashing not "choice". If you are a woman in a muslim ciuntry you do jot have "choice". You cannot even in turkey, report a crime against a man and have it followed up on. Wake up! I know certain protestants hate women but do you really want to go back to the stone age? In kashmir if a woman has sex before marriage they stone her to death and set the male on fire.
Perhaps the ULC isn't the right fit for you William. Scroll to the top of this page and you'll see the words… "We are all children of the same universe." Allowing yourself to develop "zero tolerance" for Islam, or any faith for that matter, flies in the face of this credo.
It's sad that you've chosen to have zero tolerance for Islam, or any faith for that matter, William. It's also contrary to the ULC credo of "We are all children of the same universe." (scroll to the top of this page)
William…... Your decision to have "zero faith" in one of the world's most popular and respected religions seems to contradict the credo "We Are All Children of the Same Universe" at the top of this page.
Can you provide any evidence to support your claim that a "hostile take over of our culture and religion" is taking place and that there are "47 terrorist training camps in the U.S."? The current Muslim population in the U.S. is around 2%. The vast majority of them are neither extremists nor "jihadists". They are either naturalized citizens, born in the U.S., or have chosen to immigrate and become Americans. Why do feel they're a threat to you and your family, especially when their numbers are so small?
We are all children of the same universe? Take that california new age lala land crap and put it where the sun dorsn't shine and wake up! This is a dangerous cult of islam not a religion.