Is America a Christian nation? According to a new report, if it is… it won’t be soon.
A new report from Pew Research Center has some alarming news for Christians: In 50 years, less than half of Americans will be Christian.
But, the report says, another group may constitute a full half of America’s religious makeup: Those who believe nothing at all.
Is America losing its religion?
Bye, Bible
The researchers at Pew looked at recent trends and extrapolated the four most likely scenarios for the future of faith in America - all of which are much less Christian than things are today.
The religiously unaffiliated - colloquially called the ‘Nones’ - are America’s fastest growing religious ‘group’... if you can call them that. Frequently citing dissatisfaction and cynicism with organized religion, particularly Christianity, America’s young people are switching from Christian to nonreligious at meteoric rates.
Currently, 64% of Americans identify as Christian. ‘Nones’ account for another 30%, and the remaining 6% is made up of all other faiths, primarily Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus.
Even at the report’s most optimistic outlook for Christianity, by 2070 only a little over half of Americans will be Christian. Because Christians now skew older and the nonreligious skew younger, the report found that, assuming no person in America has changed or will change their religion post-2020, only 54% of Americans will be Christian in 50 years. More realistic projections, which assume current trends of religious dropoff will continue, show that Christians will make up less than half of the population by 2070, with some projections even putting Christians at just a little over one-third of the population.
Of course, the forecasters say, some events are impossible to predict. Some future event could re-Christianize Americans - or cause further dropoff. A cultural shift could happen, tipping the balance in one direction or the other. But if current trends hold, America will quickly be much, much less Christian.
What is driving Americans away from Christianity?
Losing Our Religion
America’s religious landscape has recently changed in ways that would’ve been unfathomable even a few decades ago. Up until the early 1990s, roughly 90% of Americans were Christian, and only 5% of Americans identified as nonreligious.
When asked, America’s ‘nones’ point to a variety of reasons why they lost their faith.
Some identify scientific discoveries, like evolution or the big bang theory, as reasons why they no longer believe. Others dislike organized religion, and cite “Christians doing unChristian things” as their reason why. The clergy sex abuse scandal, prosperity preachers, and many religious leaders’ anti-gay rhetoric are frequently cited.
Still others just say their faith eroded; They were never extremely religious, and they just fell off.
Whatever the reasoning, secular Americans will likely soon be the majority.
What do you think? Is it good or bad for America’s future that belief in Christianity is dropping? Is it good or bad for America that the religiously unaffiliated will soon be the majority belief in this country? And what impact will that have on American culture?
Is America losing its religion a good thing?
122 comments
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Lionheart
I’m sure that even the half of those that say they are Christian, are only Christian in name only, from what I know about them. Few ever really read the Bible, and many have poor morals in treating their fellow human beings with respect, as often evidenced on here by many who profess to be Christian, then write abusively of others on here that don’t have the same belief system. All we can do is try and love them as best we can. 🤷🏼
🦁❤️
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Douglas Robert Spindler
I’m sure that even the half of those that say they are Christian are Christians. It's not even close to being 50%,
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Rev Mark D
Lion! I think you have inadvertently coined a new label. To your credit. And might just exactly fit the bill for efficiency and cutting through all untruths as well in one quick word.
Consider: CHristians In Name Only. Chinos.
...which I would define as pretty much anybody who does not behave like Jesus did.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
I doubt this, but hope that one day the patriarchy will fall.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
It's not true.
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High Priestess Vega
Do you have proof? I work in statistics and I am telling you, all signs point to this being true.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@High Priestess Vega Yes I can provide proof based on factual statements made by Christians based on false facts and figures which were made up by Christians.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Well then. Let's see it.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Oh it's happening faster than everyone thinks. Look at all the silly things "Christian" politicians are saying in the name of God? Women have no control over their bodies. Women like to get rapped. God needs your money. Priests, pastors and ministers rape young children and women. Homosexuality is a sin. A loving young married couple of two women should not be allowed in a Christian community.
When will this Christian haltered end? Answer is simple, when there aren't anymore Christians. These are just some of the many reasons why young people today think Christians are dope/stupid and don't want to be associated with the Christian religion.
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Joe R Day
"Women like to get raped. God needs your money. Priests, pastors and ministers rape young children and women. Homosexuality is a sin. A loving young married couple of two women should not be allowed in a Christian community." These and more are some of the reasons why I have eschewed 'religion' in all it's hateful glory. Also endemic racism, folks who talk a good story but don't 'live what they say others should'.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Joe R Day EXACTLY - Are you seeing the ads from all of the lawyers who are and have successfully sued the Catholic Church? The church has paid out over $3 Billion dollar so far. The victims on average receiving $.5 million dollars each.
Young people are seeing and hearing all of these ads and associating the Christian religion with the repeated rapping and young girls, little boys and women.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Paganism isn't like this.
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Mark Stricklett
Douglas, I agree with your prespective - as dismal as it is...
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Joy
Spot on, Douglas. My feelings as well. Thank you.
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Rev Mary
Comment removed by user.
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Canadian Yankee
In the thirties and forties many German Jews stood up for their religion, acknowledging their faith publicly. Today in America it is easier to say "I am a Christian." than not to acknowledge being part of the group. However I wonder how deep the faith is for many ot them. Would they acknowledge their faith as the German Jews did or deny the belief faced with the same options.
I think that many fewer in our nation are truly commited to Christianity.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Canadian Yankee That's not quite true. Many of the "Jews" in Nazi Germany did not know they were Jewish when they were rounded up. Many were practicing Christians. The Nazi's with the help of IBM's "computers" and census records going back several hundred years is how many of these "Jews" were found and rounded up. Read the book "IBM and the Holocaust" for additional information.
But what Nazi Germany did to the Jews doesn't compare to what the Russians and Stalin did to the Jews and the Christians.
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JT of the plains
The major reasons I see that people are abandoning the "Christian" churches are because those facilities are now becoming politically driven cults, rather than legitimate Christian houses of worship.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Whenever possible, I ask anyone who self-identifies as a Christian, what they consider necessary (mandatory) in order to be a Christian.
For example: Are all Christians required to love all of their neighbors — or just the members of their own Christian tribe; they can still hate and discriminate against those not in their particular tribe.
Another example. Are Christians actually supposed to love, worship and otherwise adore, the Jewish God who drowned everyone on Earth, and arranged to have his only son tortured to death — so that only Christians would eventually end up in the Christian Heaven— because only Christians who believe in the Holy Ghost (not the Holy Spirit) will be granted entry into eternal life in the Christian Heaven?
If the mythological Jesus was (still is) gay — does a Christian before entering the Christian Heaven— required to “love the gay” in order to placate Jesus and also the Holy Ghost (Who’s also gay, but gay in his heart only).
When these questions are answered — the actual number of “real Christians” is less than one percent — the rest of them (the phony Christians) just profess to be Christians— because in doing so, they can hate gays, females, minorities, those of different faiths, and liberals who use science to understand reality — rather than a reliance on medieval superstitious nonsense — exclusively.
And, I have two DD’s from the ULC, plus four other ULC doctorates in all the other subject areas, which enables me to be more Christian-like ( because I follow the Golden Rule) than any Christian I know.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Your DD's apparently aren't doing you any good because you apparently have such a dislike for Christianity that your mind is not allow you to understand what it is.
There's way too much to explain in the blog comment section, but while Christians are commanded to have love and compassion toward people, at the same time that in no way neuters them from not accepting what is deemed sin or sinful behavior from those people.
And "Judge not least ye be judged" does not mean Christians are precluded from recognizing sinful behavior, so they do not fall into it, and calling it out. But that whole chapter is not about Christians being perfect, it's about judging with little or no hypocrisy in your own faith life.
The point about Jewish possibly being gay is irrelevant because it's ludicrous on the face of it. Jesus was a Pious Jew and Jewish law at the time was very clear on that type of activity. It still is actually, but the number of Jews that has done mental gymnastics to negate it has increased significantly.
And yes Christians are expected to love and worship a loving yet just God. A God who punishes sin and sent his son to be the ultimate sacrifice so you no longer have to kill a lamb in the temple for atonement.
From the Christian perspective, and the prospective of the Jews, he is not just the Jewish God but rather he is THE God of everybody. It's irrelevant if anybody else accepts that are not. Under their faith systems it is a fact.
You can be neither Christian nor Jew and say that many or other Gods and all such belief systems are equal. That is incompatible with the core beliefs of those, and other, religions.
I leave everybody with this thought on it all...
https://youtu.be/yf-TNVSCfsQ
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
Christian arrogance enables most self-identifying Christians to claim that there’s only one God — theirs.
Such arrogant Christians (99% + or - ) are this blasphemous claim, even though by doing so they violate one of the “Ten Commandments” which the Jewish God commanded — and several centuries later — the Christian God agreed with the Jewish God — that “thou shalt have no other Gods before me.”
If there were only one God, how could you claim that your God is better than all the rest of the Gods?
As a Secular Humanist Pantheist (SHP) I can truthfully state that the SHP God is the only God - because, as far as I know, the SHP God is the only God which is provable.
Why?
Because the SHP God is the same as nature - and even Christians who abhor science, begrudgingly acknowledge that nature exists.
The only way to be a “Good” Christian (according to Mark Twain) is for such Christians to abandon their power to reason — then turn their minds over to predatory, vulturistic demagogues (such as DJT, and the Pope)
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William J Lewis
Christianity is best displayed by action, not knowledge, not hate, being an example doesn't even usually involve the use of the mouth, or in this case the written word.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Well there's a lot to unpack there but I just want to address two issues that stick out to me. If you think anything else is very important we ask it singularly and I will try to address it.
Also the below should not necessarily be taken as MY personal belief system. I'm just trying to look at it and explain it from a academic philosophical point of view.
The first of "Thou shall have no other God before me" is part of a greater whole of statements found in Exodus chapter 20.
As such it is in no way an acknowledgment that there are other, legitimate, gods. It just recognizes that some people think there are.
So, from a judeo-christian point of view it's not Jewish or Christian arrogance, it's just acknowledging the fact, according to that faith system, that there's only one God.
The other point is regarding talking about Christians giving up reason. Well, duh. As do Muslims as do Jews as do those that worship tree spirits and I can go on and on.
All those are called FAITHS. They are not called reasons or logic. Nobody walks up to anybody and asks them, "What reason/logic are you?"
So somebody walking up to somebody else and telling them, "I am going to defeat your faith with reason and logic." is kind of a non-starter
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Randy C Hamilton
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so," Mark Twain. "Faith" is promoted by those who make money off of the lies. I prefer reality.
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Randy C Hamilton
provable?? What is this proof?
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Joe R Day
Your reply is the very embodiment of the reasons for my 'Turning Away' from the faith you follow. May your faith bring you comfort.
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Rev. MichaelRS
If you're talking to me you need to read the second paragraph of my statement
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AetherAgent
This isn’t a sign that people are losing their religion; it’s a sign that they’re finding it. Ancient wisdom didn’t view religion as a set of rules to follow without question or views to believe with blind faith. To be religious meant that you were a seeker of the fundamental Truth of our existence.
If your search led to a revelation that your long held, cherished beliefs were based in illusion or fiction, you wasted no time abandoning them. And that is exactly what is happening.
This is the true meaning of the Mayan prophecy that 2012 would bring great change to the world. It didn’t foretell the end of the world. It marked the end of a cycle and the beginning of an awakening. You are not viewing a collapse of religion. You are viewing the death of ignorance and the birth of an enlightened humanity.
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Minister Jeannine of the Church of the Free Spirit
America is not losing "its" religion! Religion should have stayed separate from "state"! This religious ideology of "Christianity" has done this to itself by getting intimately involved in politics, believe they are the superior morality police and forcing their religion on everyone in the entire nation and beyond! Their hatred and intolerance and expectations that the world be all like them is the cause of their decline! "They" are not God! And should not have placed idols of their worship before God in order to fulfill their desire to control the world!
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Maureen Tighe-Brown
Until reading this article, I had no idea that "universal" was only for christians. What a disappointment.
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Kathleen Harron Zea
It would be a good thing for secular life in general if we could stop the ridiculous litmus test of Christianity for politicians andmany others. Paying lip service to religious faith is an exhausting exercise. Religious freedom also means freedom from religion and it would be a good thing for atheists never to have to hear again that they can have no moral center without belief in a deity.
But I don't think it matters who is a "real" Christian. I don't think that calling the US a Christian nation is going anywhere. I don't think we will ever achieve true separation of church and state. I don't believe Christians have anything to worry about here. And the tithing and lip service will continue, in my opinion. Of course, this is just my opinion based on personal experience. I realize that I'm making blanket statements here that don't apply to everyone.
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Scott Edward McCoy
Does it matter?
Seriously, if it does matter to a person that there will be less Christians over a period of time (or any religion for that matter), that person needs to ask themselves "why?".
Why might a person be concerned with less religion in the country - an honest answer may be more shocking than the declining rate of believers.
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J. K. Ivey
I am an agnostic Christian who has spent the better part of 60 years in the faith. I believe in the religion “of” Christ. I do not believe in the religion “about” Christ. Man has now made God in his own image. Judgmental haters who are sexist, racist, misogynistic, and homophobic. Think the Catholic Church was wrong for condemning Galileo to house arrest in 1633 for saying the earth was round? Come down to Texas and see doctors accused of felonies for saving a woman’s life who has an ectopic pregnancy. Or a pregnancy that’s a result of rape. They have weaponized their religion, to justify attacks on anyone who is not just like them. Jesus said to love God, and to love your neighbor as yourself. “On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets” (Matt. 22:40). People are going to continue leaving the church unless it can get back on message. Love, humility, service.
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Judy Henry
I’ve read all above comments and they are fascinating. I agree with many of them. IMHO I also believe the reason people are not-identifying with “Christianity” is because the term has been tarnished by the stereotype of hypocrisy. Much like other religions have their negative stereotypes, Christianity has now become synonymous with the current politics of evangelism, conspiracies and far right, extremism. Younger people aren’t having it. Despite the assault on education—which includes book banning, and restrictions on truth (replaced by “ alternative facts”)— young people still crave rational and reasonable philosophies to help them make sense of the world. They are smart enough to see gross hypocrisy. Per this specific discussion on Christianity, I believe that until the loudest Christian sects return to their roots of compassion, love, and service to those less fortunate and in need, and away from their reputation as partisan political machines, they will continue to dwindle into obscurity, and become relevant only to the vacillating whims of political cults.
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Rev Mary
I can promise you there are many many Christians continuing to practice love, compassion and service all over the world, quietly and gently. You dont hear or see them unless you look for them, which many here and other places dont. ~ Chaplain Mary
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Sylvia Sue King
I was raised in the Faith of God but as I entered adulthood, I questioned what I had been taught, we go about our daily lives sinning and then on Sunday we go to church and ask for our sins to be forgiven. Why do we do this why is it we can sin and then be forgiven? I am 66 years old, and my feelings have become stronger on why we read the bible but pretty much go against everything in it. Is the bible really the words of God and Jesus, it was written by men who wrote what they believed God said where is the proof that these are Gods words and thoughts its only paper, where are the tablets the commandments where wrote on, where is the proof of any of teachings of Christianity? Where is the proof that we go to Heaven or to Hell, it's hard to just go by faith when so many suffer, it hard to keep faith when innocents die without really living a life. I have been alive these 66 years and there is still no proof that any of this is real, and we are told you have to have faith.
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Richard DellaValle
The sooner Christianity is gone, the better. I became a minister of the Universal Life Church because I wanted to declare my separation from the Christian Church – of which I was a serious part for 24 years. Christianity is a pagan religion based on previous myths such as Osiris, Zeus, etc., The more I studied the Bible, the more I became convinced that the God of the Old Testament was a figment of evil imagination, a butcher, a sadist, and a misogynist. He even condoned slavery. The New Testament compounded things by claiming that Jesus was God. If I have no respect for butcheries of the OT god, how can I respect the NT god? I cannot accept that the true creator of the Universe would condemn anyone or anything He created. “Believe in me or perish in eternal torment” is an ugly message and must be obliterated. I live as a humanist, helping others as I would like them to help me. I cannot shake the “feeling” that there is a Creator but He/She/It is a silent God and loves, doesn’t hate his creation, and wants nothing but the best for us. If there is a heaven for us to share in an afterlife, I am positive that we will ALL participate, not just those who have faith in Jesus. If anyone wishes to discuss this further, I can be reached at richdellavalle6@gmail.com. May the Creator bless you all and show you a good path to follow.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
As a ULC Bishop, with two DD’s and four other ULC doctorates (and, whose been sainted twice) I can categorically state that there can’t be religious freedom in the USA— until all parents are prevented from religiously brainwashing their naive, gullible, kiddies— until they reach what’s supposedly the age of 18.
Why?
Because childhood religious brainwashing (I,e; Sunday school) is clearly a serious type of psychological child abuse.
And, unless, and until religious brainwashing (indoctrination) is categorized as child abuse — teaching our school kids that the USA has religious freedom is a lie.
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Pastor George Day
William Dusenberry, you seem to paste the same comment around threads. Another indicator of what I referred to before.
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Rev Mary
where in the New Testament did Jesus say he was God?
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Ronaldo
This article claims that 90% of Americans were Christian before the early 1990s, but prior to that time, I had seen different results from the polls, and I'm uncertain of their accuracy. The other polls show that 70%, 75%, and occasionally more Americans claimed to be Christian, but during the times when three quarters of American citizens touted their belief in Christ, prayer was removed from schools and the Ten Commandments were removed from our courthouses and other public buildings. "In God We Trust" remained on the money, but there were attempts to remove it, as well. If so many Americans were actually Christian, how did these things happen? I've been Christian for several decades and was very active in the church most of that time. Today, I am unchurched, as I moved to a new city, and have yet to find a church that appeals to me. This does not mean I have given up Christianity, however. Many Christians could be in the same situation as I, still following Christ, but not belonging to any organized religion.
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Roger Sigtermans
Public schools, courthouses, etc. are government affiliated institutions. US is made up of many people of other religions and Christian references in those places can easily be interpreted as government sponsored. Thus, all non-Christian (which according to the survey is a significant portion) citizens may be made to feel second class or subtlety (and not-so-subtlety) encouraged to change or adopt a specific (in this case Christian) religion. A true religion would stand on it's own, wouldn't it? It wouldn't need to be supported by the government. Like it or not, US is a multi-cultural society. Public life is secular. If someone wants to see a socially mandatory religious life, look to may countries in the middle east. May be the "wrong" religion, but the principle is the same.
As for the "in God We Trust" on money (money, of all things)... that isn't some motto from the founding fathers. It was added to our money during the red scare. It was to remind all that we weren't "godless communists".
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Warren Calvin Wall
My godparents had a sign above the counter in their small town diner. "In God we trust. All others pay cash."
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Karl Axel Lindström
this just seam healthy to me... i mean most of europe is kinda unintrested in religion at least no one is really pushing it anywhere near where the US does with religion..
and i mean half of the things people in the Us belive dosen't even come from scripture... its all so inter tangled with politics and group identity and just messy....
dialing it down can only improve things if you ask me.
by i am swedish so my bias is towards "lagomt" i.e enought...i.e dont over do it... just enought... we are not really that religious here in sweden.. like old people may go to the church to listen to the music on x-mas but never go near a church otherwise lol
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Amber Fry
News flash. Christianity isn't the only religion out there. There are a great many others. Also not being religious doesn't automatically mean atheist. There is a wide range of agnostic and spiritual paths out there that people have been exploring. It doesn't mean they are walking away from everything... just the church specifically. Many hold onto a belief of something greater and decide the church is just not the way any more.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
There is a custer's-last-stand/remember-the-alamo mentality ongoing in the US for fear chrstns are losing their majority; goppers are ready to decree the US is a chrstn nation (think how putin announcing ukrain is russian then makes ukrain russian; like that).
By declaring the US to be a chrstn nation the goppers will begin to act; first with prayers (only approved, chrstn white ones though) in all schools, offices, government buildings, public and sporting events and with SCOTUS decisions in favor of chrstns (mostly white chrstns of course), to having to be a chrstn for employment or public office (fully backed by the now-chrstn CSCOTCUS (or Chrstn Supreme Court Of The Chrstn United States)).
The chrstn panic nigh approaches as diminishing numbers of people claim to be chrstn. It can all be lost in one generation and so I foresee schools becoming fully chrstn-ized (supported by tax-payer monies) and making sure every child is thoroughly 'educated' in it (think how texas teaches about texas in every grade level and how they celebrate texas and how everyone practices being a good texan (in fact I bet texan chrstns are better at being texans than they are at being chrstns))
One would think that people who profess to follow the jesús would be better people overall but sadly being a follower of jesús seems to give them certitude that they are correct (and thus better) in their outlook and, as it gives them dominion over all living things it apparently includes dominion over those non-chrstn/non-white folk (mostly the ones that jesús loved (supposedly)). Why is it so many followers of jesús don't act in the way jesús is supposed to have acted. They instead act more like the people jesús spoke out against. I wonder if jesús gets irony?
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Donald G Magel
Trump and his small c christian followers who selected him as their chosen one are leading the way to at least an Agnostic country. They are proving that while Christ was a real and humane man, they have no idea who he was or what he preached and modeled. I expect that the "c" right will be demanding beheadings and burnings at the stake for any disparagement of their trumpie.
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Candace Sue Singleton
I was baptized as Christian and tried to do my best by that faith, but life managed to make me too busy to work on it. I became divorced 1988 and was feeling lost so I started going to Church again. That's when the Church added the last straw. They told me that I needed to return to my husband and let God decided if I should be divorced or not. My ex-husband is an alcoholic and abusive, but I tried to work things out with him and all it did was cause me more misery and upset. So I parted way again with my ex-husband and with Christianity.
I have now found my peace and direction in Paganism.
My thoughts on being a Minister are these ... Who are we, as human individuals, to tell another person that their beliefs/religion is wrong? There are far TOO MANY organized religions out there for any ONE religion to claim theirs is the one and only. I want to serve any and all people, regardless of their religious beliefs. I believe that Divine Energy filled the Universe. It's there for everyone to reach for and that Divine Energy doesn't deny anyone.
Too often people have negative or incorrect thoughts/ideas in regard to other religions. It is my goal to create a group of individuals (from any and all religions) that can come together and "talk", teach one another about their beliefs without jamming it down our throats. We all have the right to peace of mind and spirit. Sometimes, that can happen by just talking to someone.
Christianity is declining because the majority of Christians are in the "slowly going nuts" category created by political lies. As these so-called Christians keep trying to make insane laws based on their beliefs, people will leave and search elsewhere if at all.
We need to speak in terms of spirituality and kindness toward our fellow human beings. Our society is becoming too "me, me, me". We need to open back up to our fellow man and not judge them or berate them.
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Christopher Tracey Robertson
"They told me that I needed to return to my husband and let God decide if I should be divorced or not." - This is not Biblical. I would go as far as calling it a false doctrine.
This story and experience isn't an isolated experience. This story and experience happens even with the genders swapped. I would never hope for any person to go through this experience.
What I'm writing next is not directed at the writer of this post. What I write is to provide balance and information that is useful even within the secular world. Please do not take any offense. No offense is intended or warranted.
....ok....
No person or organization can suggest with force a person to do anything under any legal standard. If this happens, it is ineffective unless the person or organization has leverage. This enters the realm of coercion and/or blackmail. Clearly these two things are illegal and hold legal ramifications. When a person or organization has leverage over a person, this is usually instituted at a very early stage. The only significant leverage is knowledge and/or evidence of some sort of impropriety which is 100% sure to Socially and/or Legally Disrupt and/or Destroy the person's current way of life.
With this information one can easily determine who has leverage over them.
How to defeat Leverage: Personal Accountability and Full Disclosure. Preferably on Your terms.
Practical Example: I received a Congressional Security Clearance in my youth. I went through a vetting process. During my vetting process I disclosed everything. What they asked about; what I volunteered. Both in thought and deed. I received the clearance with complete knowledge on both sides that I could not be coerced or black mailed for anything in my past. Going forward, I remained open and accountable for my actions (as much as I could legally). Because of this I tend to disclose things to people in my inner circle with ease. This is not an easy task for the uninitiated.
I offer this: If a person ever feels unsure about what they are about to share, do not share. That means that you don't inherently trust the person or the situation.
Feel free to fit this information into any past, present or future scenario as needed for personal clarity.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Women have control over their bodies. They just not should not have arbitrary control over the other person's body growing inside of them.
What nonsense are you speaking when you say Christians are saying "women like to get raped". Nobody calling themselves a Christian says anything of the sort.
Yes, men and women, of ALL faiths, have done evil in the name of their faith.
It's not just Christians that have issues with homosexuality. Why aren't you ragging on how that issue is treated in Muslim communities. For the most part Christians will only tell you that you are going to hell for it. Muslims are likely to try to personally send you there on the double quick by throwing you off a roof.
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Amber Fry
A woman having control of her body means what goes on in her body and who gets possession of it at any given time. We cannot live in a truly autonomous state until we stop telling people what they have to do or not do in the case of pregnancy or homosexuality. Religion is about the self and how to live by choice if you are to be part of the religion. It doesn't include forcing others to live by those rules too. Be Christian or don't be, but don't force it on others.
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Minister Wilson
Sorry Rev MichaelRS,
There are several definitions for "arbitrary"
--existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will an arbitrary choice...
--based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something...
---not restrained or limited in the exercise of power : ruling by absolute authority
Your comments [still] I am afraid misses the point...
Does a "person" have the right to use your body without your consent?
If not, then it does not matter if it is on the inside or outside of anyones body. That is what bodily autonomy is all about...
And the reason why, I presume, people here don't rail against Muslim's treament of gays is because we are American and do not live and do not care to live in a theocracy...
Can you personally prove there is a hell?
If not, then Why should people care about what you feel or believe to be the nature of reality? A reality that you can niether prove or justify...
Take care,
Minister Wilson
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Randy C Hamilton
Hey, RevMichaelRS, You might actually read your book. Deut 22:28-29 Written by MEN, of course. since biblically women have NO RIGHTS! Ditch the cult. Get a real job. Try reality.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Well thanks for the advice. but I already spent over 30 years in the very "real job" fields of public and private safety as well as active and active reserve military. So for now I'm good with that, thanks.
And nothing I have expressed is necessarily my own personal view or faith view on the subjects. I'm just able to look at it from others points of views that might have those beliefs.
For example, you mentioned Deuteronomy but if I was a Christian the way things were run under the "Old Law" really wouldn't interest me that much.
But this, even though it probably doesn't go far enough in your mind, should make you happy; I'm for a woman's unfettered ability to choose an abortion prior to the fetal stage of development.
I think that's enough time to decide if is going to have an abortion because, as a woman who is sexually active, one should have already thought what they were going to do if you got pregnant in your current situation.
A position by the way, as you might imagine, kind of rankles my more strict conservative friends.
But it's interesting that you, and others, are on a forum that has a religious/spiritual bent to it, bringing up "reality" in relation to faith and spirituality.
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Minister Wilson
Dear Rev MichaelRS,
I appreciate the personal views of others; however, competing views cannot both be right. If this were the case we would be in a prepetual state of confusion, or no-knowledge, since everyones personal believes or idealogical whims must be given defference over facts.
It seems that you have a problem with "sex" and the care-free nature that some may partake in the act without a long-term commitment, and that is fine for you...but does not neccesarily comport with others views...
Pregnancy as a consequence of sex is a normal and natural thing, yet it is up to the individuals to decide if they want to be parents or in this a mother, or as some states see it a forced breeder...
While it is true that women can give life, it is not true that that is their only purpose in life...Aside from the obvious, rape, insest, life of the mother, etc. how do you know what the "correct timming" should be?
According to you, abortions should be banned at 9 weeks of pregnancy (prior to the fetal stage of development)...When most women dont find out they are pregnant until 4-13 weeks depending on the methods of birth control if any...
Yet, still the reality of the situation is does a person have the right to use another person's body without their consent ??
Not to mention all those other types of cases that pertain to fetal viability, health of the mother, rape, etc...
So, what is your red-line (so to speak based from) if it is not from experience??
So, who should ultimately decide? the state, the goverment, the church, you, or the woman?
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Rev. MichaelRS
😄 I'm sorry, I nearly busted a gut laughing (as would anybody who really knew me from high school on into my 40s) at your second paragraph there about me having a problem with sex or certain aspects of it.
If I was not the king of debauchery I was certainly one of it's princes.
Of course there's no way you could have been aware of how humorous that statement was.
No need to go into specific details but girlfriends (that one probably goes without saying) parties, one night stand from clubs, married women, horny tourist women around Disneyland (some hardly speaking English if at all. It's amazing what you can accomplish with looks and made up rudimentary sign language) all Races, all creeds, tall women, short women, skinny women, skinnier women.
So yeah, that was pretty funny.
I also want to point out that a lot of you seem to be skipping over the part of my comments where I say, in reference to religion or abortion or whatever, X is not necessarily my own personal view.
So instead of asking me to clarify or what would I feel about a certain situation, you start lecturing me on what you THINK I believe.
But let me just mention two points. As far as homosexuality goes; I don't give a rat's ass. But as far as Judaism and Christianity goes. I can find nothing in anybody's scriptures that has anything positive to say about it. And it's just mental gymnastics to come up with a philosophy that says it's okay under those faiths. At the same time I was a groomsmen at one of my best friends wedding 30 years ago...and she was a lesbian. In fact, she still is😄
As far as abortion goes, contrary to what some of my more strict conservative best friends with I think I'm 100% for choice mostly during the first trimester. I have problems with it after that and I am radically opposed to it in the third trimester as a matter of choice.
So if someone is not clear on my position on a given issue, just ask. I'm a pretty amiable guy and will be happy to clarify.
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Christopher Tracey Robertson
Please Please Can I Play Too:
Personal Accountability!
- If one has sex with no protection there is the opportunity to cause a pregnancy.
- There is No birth control (outside of a hysterectomy) that is 100%.
- Return to 1.
That just about sums everything up. You can add Rape, Incest and the like in to the equation. Those things don't pose any change to the equation.
Male has intercourse with Female > Female gets pregnant > Female chooses whether or not to abort the pregnancy > Man has NO say in it
Female has intercourse with Male > Female gets pregnant > Female chooses whether or not to abort the pregnancy > Man has NO say in it
If there is no problem with ending a pregnancy at any stage from 1 second to 9 months, then what's the argument. Just fight for legislation that says, "You can Abort the Pregnancy at Any Point Before the Embryonic Sack Bursts." Just choose to believe that it's not a sentient life until that point. If a persons conscience (female) allows that Belief System...Well OK.
Here's a solution: If you do not want Abortion on the table, do not put Abortion on the table. ABSTAIN FROM SEX! (Talking to Males)
That pretty much an Absolute in present society since even your wife can consent to sex, revoke consent without actually telling you, report it to the police and have you arrested. Destroying your life even if you don't go to prison. Social Media does Not Play!
Here's an interesting thing: I do not have any personal skin in this because I'm Abstinent. So, how is it that I have to tell the Super Majority of Females "NO" more than once? Why do they feel anger?
So, why did I take this Here? I have counseled many young men on their being Sexually Assaulted (legally females can't rape men). I've been sexually assaulted by Females. One of those Females became Pregnant. She chose to get an Abortion. I had no say in the matter. And I'm not a special snowflake as this has happened to other Males I have spoken with.
People fail to understand that the Males involved in these scenarios have valid feelings. Feelings that they will need to sort out. Most of the time ALONE!
So, I simply adopt one view. No matter how the female conceives, from 1 second to 9 months it's a life. That life should have the opportunity to live. Everything can sort itself out. Either All Sentient Life is Precious or No Sentient Life is Precious. This is the true argument. Otherwise, a Female can lose a Pregnancy under ANY circumstances and it would not be a Bother.
Female Body > Female Choice > Female Issue > Female Go Cry To Other Females > Female Accept 100% Accountability > Female Deal With Your Conscious Without Involving Males
If you're going to be Fair then Be 100% Fair. Under these current conditions a Male should Not have Any Responsibility to Support ANY Pregnancy. This absolutely includes a WIFE. Why? Because under the current Legislation, any Female (including a wife) can terminate a pregnancy without the Males Consent. That said, Logic Dictates: Until the fetus enters the world outside the Embryonic Sack, the Embryo has no Legal Connection to the Male. It's a Female issue For Females to Sort Out. Just call the male once you give birth without him present.
Then the male gets to CHOOSE if He will Financially and/or Emotionally Support that child AFTER a PATERNITY TEST IS COMPLETED!
Hey Fair is Fair and If you're in Get IN 100%.
After this logical thought exercise, how do those Archaic Christian Biblical Beliefs Sound?
P.S. The female pays for all costs for choosing to proceed with the pregnancy. No Exceptions. Your Body Your Choice Your Bill.
This is what True Equality Looks Like. It's not meant to offend anyone. It still Offends the Super Majority.
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NLilly
In a society wherein GOD ALMIGHTY is denounced and rebelled against, because of many choosing the path of unrighteousness and sinful pleasures, well yes, it is a very disturbing, disheartening, & frightening thing for America to lose her faith in GOD ALMIGHTY & His Son JESUS CHRIST.
To turn one's back on JESUS CHRIST is to turn and walk away from the Gift of GOD ALMIGHTY'S Salvation Plan of gaining Eternal Life through His Son JESUS. So if this is in fact the lifestyle many are embracing, to believe in nothing, whether Old or Young, is totally up to that individual.
But, as for me and my house, We shall continue serving the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, through His Obedient Son CHRIST JESUS! ♥ After All Of The OUTSTANDING GOOD & Mind Blowing Grace & Mercies I Have Witnessed & Received In The Holy Godhead through Life's Experiences, I Simply Will Not Walk Away! No Matter Who Does! AMEN JESUS! Why Give Up Eternal Life? I Won't! ♥ ♥ To GOD The Father, GOD The Son (JESUS CHRIST), & God The Holy Ghost & Holy Spirit, I Give All The Glory In My Life! 24/7! No Shame Here! AMEN HOLY GHOST! ♥ ♥ AMEN LORD JESUS! ♥ ♥ ♥
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NLilly
Coming From 1 JOHN: 5, 9-13: KJV
09) If we receive the witness (testimony) of men, the witness (testimony) of God is greater: for this is the witness (testimony) of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10) He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness (testimony) in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record (account) that God gave of his Son. 11) And this is the record (account), that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God./ Selah! AMEN! ♥ ♥ -
Lionheart
I wonder if your god is real, and I wonder if the biblical Jesus was also real. It's possible that someone like him did exist, but there's very little demonstrable evidence, and even less evidence for any of the worlds gods, let alone the biblical one. I also wonder who wrote the stories and tales in the Bible that is often quoted? 🤔
🦁♥️
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Randy C Hamilton
Lionheart, Read "Forged" by Bart D Ehrman.
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Rev. Rory
The comments are copy/paste, NLilly.
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Govannon Thunorwulf
I found it interesting that there is no mention of the fact that many branches of Paganism are growing. In fact there is no mention of Paganism at all. Ignoring the this fact doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
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Nicole Niebrzydowski
Christianity is “falling off” due to the immense hatred that’s often spewed; this unkind behavior adulterates the very idea of God being LOVE (as cited in 1st Jn. 4:8). If in fact, God “is love”, how can his people so eagerly hate others? Unfortunately said hatred is pushing people away from the very Loving God that they claim to worship. If we “Love one another” as Christ has loved us we’d grow rapidly. Christin churches are now filled with Judge, Jury & executioners; this must change. We don’t have to like everyone but by golly, we need to love them and be kind. Love one another as Christ has told us to do!!!
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James Bullard
As a PK (preacher's kid) I long ago observed that a significant percentage of any congregation went to church for what I call 'afterlife insurance'. They aren't firm in their adherance to their denomination's beliefs but attending church gave them a sense of community and psychological comfort.
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Randy C Hamilton
I'm betting a LOT sooner than that!!! Thanks to education and the complete failure of ALL religions to prove any of their imaginary mystical magical claims. I only do secular weddings and we, as a group, who actually think for ourselves, are growing fast.
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Michael Burton
Christian evangelical movements have come and gone through out US history,from the "Great Awakening" of the 18th Century to the recent "patriotic evangelicalist' of today. Each has had political ramifications that evetually tempers the sharp edges of the movements. Meanwhile, human knowledge of the universe has deepened; we know more about our place and space than ever before and this has lessened our need for "god' answers to the unknown. Still the mystery of "why" remains unanswered and organized religion will try to answer that question, for better or worse.
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Elizabeth Ashley Woods
It is my hope that with the assistance of the psychedelic revolution humanity will shift into being more in-tune with the earth, shed judgement, embody “Christ consciousness”, and create a more beautiful and peaceful existence.
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Richard Lee Cornell
If you have read the Torah you can question most of it as has been done for centuries. If you read the Christian Bible which was written first by Jews then by Romans and do not question it the problem is in you and not the Bible.Those books were written when the distant a human could see what was in front of him and the smallest was what he saw looking down. In 1776 the founding fathers did a wise thing with religion no one religion can rule of the rest of us and it they try to do invoke the 2rd.
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
When the Hebrew God told Moses (by originally giving him 936 commandments ( ten, of which, are the most important) he (the Hebrew God) told Moses not to have any other Gods before him.
And Gods is plural - because before the Hebrews figured out — that no one had any idea about what God was supposed to be— they (the rabbis collectively) decided to tell their sheeple (today’s churchgoers) that there was only one God — and that only after long years of intensive study — could anyone comprehend the Hebrew God.
So, if a sheep, asked his rabbi — who, what, where, why, or whatever— is the Hebrew God supposed to be — the rabbi told them it would take twenty years to learn what the rabbi did, so sheeple should believe everything the rabbi told them — if they didn’t have 20 years to unravel the Hebrew God mumbo-jumbo.
The Catholics kept worshiping dozens or so Gods — by simply calling their plethora of Gods saints — and that’s that.
When Nietzsche (Birthday, 10/15) concluded that “the Christian God was dead” he didn’t mean that there actually was a Christian God who died— what Nietzsche had figured out was now that Europeans had science — they no longer needed a God to explain man’s place in the universe.
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Pastor George Day
William Dusenberry, the Catholic Church adopted pagan practices to make Christianity appealing - I credit that. However, your factual error is that the rabbis never said there is only one God, but one of a kind - unique, unequal - to other Gods. They never did, nor do they today, nor do we Christians, admit that there are other deities claiming to be Gods: Moloch, Leviathan, Asmodeo, etc. Even the ancient Greek and Roman gods are none other than rebellious angels claiming to be gods. The unique (one of a kind) is YHWH (causative Hebrew form of the verb to be, meaning: origin of all existence).
Nietche might be right - in fact many are turning away from God. Yet, science still has not been able to explain the origin of life. Only Jews, Christians and Muslims have this revelation from the one-of-a-kind Creator of all beings. And guess what... interestingly, all three worship the same one-of-a-kind Creator of life!
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Richard Hinson
There has always been religious extremism in America. From the traveling evangelical tents of the dust bowl era through to today. The sad fact is, that extremism has infected more and more churches because it works. Here in my home town, there's not a single church that isn't also operating as a corporation. Laundering donations for causes big and small. Somehow the church elders and pastors seem to live in a nicer and nicer area of town.
When you see sex scandals, drug scandals, and what amounts to out right conman level money grabs by preachers of the word on an annual basis. When famous billion dollar churches have pastors on TV wearing ten thousand dollar suits. What are people supposed to think? It's obviously all about money. Once you see it in that light, you look back at history, at popes, and reformers, and again, it's all about money and power. To a soul seeking God and finding only hypocrisy, is it any wonder they give up? The earliest follows of the Nazarene did so in small groups, talking about the meaning of his words, not as a church, but as humans gathered seeking to be closer to God. I for one hope that Christianity, as it exists today in America, dies, fully, and absolutely, within my lifetime. I think if there's any hope for the works of that simple carpenter to have real meaning again in this nation, then the corrupt churches and the vile conmen feeding off them need to all die out.
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Dianne McGuire
If an engineer "invents" or "creates" something, it is because it is thought to have purpose and value. It is thought that it has a place, a use, and will be used according to it's purpose. The "invention" is that of the inventor not the purchaser. Take guns for example, but more on that later. God created you. You are the invention of God. Of billions if sperm and billions of eggs over millions of years, it is miraculous that you are even here to debate the so-called hypocrisy and decline of Christianity. He gave each of us special gifts to be used for good. The fact that these gifts are misused or not used at all is not the "fault" of God or Christianity, which is one of the same. When inbGenesis the mention of "GodS" is made, many Christian scholars believe that refers specifically to "God the Father", "God The Son" and "God the Holy Spirit ". To those who identify Christians as hypocrites, I refer you to John 8:7 where Jesus listens to the argument of the Old Testament sentence of stoning a woman "caught in adultry". Jesus listened yet offered a NEW Testament consideration suggesting to the "jury" of "letting the sinless cast the first stone". The "jury" put the stones down and presumedly dispersed after being humbled by Jesus. It is not noted anywhere that I am aware of that Jesus took a vote to see if any of those ready to stone the woman were heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or another kind of sexual. He simply said, "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone". The book of Jude speaks specifically to sins of the flesh AND, I think it important to consider that sin is sin is sin, is sin. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit did not list "sin" in any numerical order. He (they) said "Repent and sin no more". Notice he didn't say, "Do it again and you will be stoned to death". No, he knew we would sin again and therefore took on the burden of sin and was sacrificed as proof that sin would continue in a broken world and that God's creations would be misused and would forever need confession, forgiveness and redemption. The temptations would always be presented. Whether or not the temptation is stronger than the purpose meant by the creator is a personal struggle between God and his creation NOT the stone- ready hypocrites who have placed themselves above God and think they know better than the Creator as to whether his invention is a good one. That's the argument against guns!!!. Guns are today's stones! The stones did nothing wrong! The question is "For what purpose were YOU created"? Are YOU using YOUR gifts and talents according to the purpose intended by YOUR Creator? If not, and you are judging others according to your own rules, you are similar, in my opinion, to the mass murderers who pick up a gun, enter a school or church or any other building and begin executing people because of some warped belief of having been wronged or misunderstood. Ask yourself your purpose on this earth is and whether it is being defined by you or for the purpose od your creator. The invention is that of the creator. It's very similar, in my opinion, to this diatribe if executing or stoning Christians for being sinners. "Let he who has not sinned, cast the first stone". Its about a personal relationship with your God(s). Read the Bible as though it was written specifically TO you and not FOR everyone else. Think of the Bible as a personal book written and as a personal gift given specifically to you. Think of art given to you by a child who loves you and made something special JUST FIR YOU because of how much you are lived and appreciated. Many of us have been give gifts that we personally wondered what in the world would we do with it. We wondered why on God's green earth would someone make that and even pay money for it and give it as a gift! And we put it on a shelf, regift it or give it ironically to Good Will. God did more than that for you. He created you with purpose that others may not understand, may mock you behind your back because they don't understand your purpose or worse, try to misuse you according to their agenda but consider the Creator. Consider the purchaser. Consider what it cost. God created you. You have a purpose and it was paid for with the blood of a redeemer.
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Karen M Butler
I don't know why this is so surprising to some. Religion has had changes throughout history. I personally do not have any faith in religion overall but that doesn't mean I don't believe in God. I just don't care for the way the religions push their views onto a person. I can think for myself and I have come to the conclusion that God weeps. Some 'Christian' behavior is appauling. What goes on in your face as well as behind closed doors is downright sinful. A person of faith is kind not aggressive. As I look around at our world as it is today, religion does nothing more than cause wars and conflict between denominations, abuse of power and children, and is full of money hungry narcissists. I don't think this is what a loving God would want for us. And I wish we could have access to the true Bible, before the inclusions, exclusions, and delusions. I want to read and study the original story before it went through changes from scribes, languages, seperation into sects and politics. I don't think religion will disappear because everyone needs to belong to a group or a tribe even if they're a loner. Lonely people are alone together. So, no I don't think it'll leave us or that we will leave it. Everyone needs something.
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Cindy L Edgar
Sadly to tell all you Christians paganism and polytheism are the two oldest beliefs out there still to this day I practice paganism and I am very much believe in many gods and goddesses not the false god that was made up by the christianities but nobody ever wants to hear the true facts everybody still believes there's only one God sadly and everybody wonders why nobody wants to be a Christian anymore cuz they're learning the truth
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Terry Essmaker
Too many fake preacher out there has corrupted people about God
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Richard Darwin Richards
Is it just a coincidence that as the US turns to atheism we are also fast turning into a third world dump?
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Tom
Correlation and causation are two very different things.
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Jerry Chris Petty
I'm a Christian and you can be too, I believe that Christianity is not a religion it is only Christianity, and any person that professes Jesus Christ as their lord and savior, knows in their heart that Jesus was crucified for the world's sins and was risin, repents and is baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost will be saved by the grace of God, Jesus is coming back and soon in my personal view and he's not coming to be nice on the return trip, the only judgment on anyone that really matters is the one coming from the Lord himself, anyone else who has past judgment on anyone means nothing and they will also be judged. Moral of the story folks is .... the end will come and all will be judged. I pray every soul be ready for it, Amen
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Karen M Butler
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this is the kind of speak that turns people off. It's in your face, do as I say kind of blah blah blah that tunes people out. It's like your trying to tell people hw to live their lives without letting them make there own decisions. It just doesn't work anymore.
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Pastor George Day
Exactly, Karen M Butler!
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Jack A Mabry
How can I believe in a God that would continue to allow Putin to exist!
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Karen M Butler
It is a test for humans. Everything is everyday. God wants to see what we will do to save the people, to do what's right. What we do is what is reviewed on judgement day.
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Greg Formoe
I think a lot of it, is churches focusing on sin, instead of love. Who wants to come to a place that makes you feel unwelcome? Churches that are real, focus on helping the poor, not harassing people who are different. Politics, has absolutely NO PLACE in church. As they walked along, Jesus said to John, “John, do you love me?” And when John answered, “Yes, Master, with all my heart,” the Master said: “Then, John, give up your intolerance and learn to love men as I have loved you. Devote your life to proving that love is the greatest thing in the world. It is the love of God that impels men to seek salvation. Love is the ancestor of all spiritual goodness, the essence of the true and the beautiful.”
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Greg Formoe
As they walked along, Jesus said to John, “John, do you love me?” And when John answered, “Yes, Master, with all my heart,” the Master said: “Then, John, give up your intolerance and learn to love men as I have loved you. Devote your life to proving that love is the greatest thing in the world. It is the love of God that impels men to seek salvation. Love is the ancestor of all spiritual goodness, the essence of the true and the beautiful.” This, is what churches would do well to focus on. Not politics.
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Donald Michael Woodward
It is time for individuals to learn to know their God and not their religion. Religions require belief and faith, while learning to know their God requires an examination of how their God interacts with them in their daily life. No need to believe or have faith, simply examine how God provides opportunity to know what God is.
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Judy Henry
I’ve read all above comments and they are fascinating. I agree with many of them. IMHO I also believe the reason people are not-identifying with “Christianity” is because the term has been tarnished by the stereotype of hypocrisy. Much like other religions have their negative stereotypes, Christianity has now become synonymous with the current politics of evangelism, conspiracies and far right, extremism. Younger people aren’t having it. Despite the assault on education—which includes book banning, and restrictions on truth (replaced by “ alternative facts”)— young people still crave rational and reasonable philosophies to help them make sense of the world. They are smart enough to see gross hypocrisy. Per this specific discussion on Christianity, I believe that until the loudest Christian sects return to their roots of compassion, love, and service to those less fortunate and in need, and away from their reputation as partisan political machines, they will continue to dwindle into obscurity, and become relevant only to the vacillating whims of political cults.
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Loraine Mussatti
I belong to an ELCA Lutheran church. It is difficult for me to stay committed as I relate to a more progressive Christianity model. I see how the numbers keep dwindling. When I bring up some of the things that need to change, I get this look like “go away”. We need to eliminate the archaic creeds that really make no sense anymore. If the church could be willing to move into the present, we may be able to salvage it. Following the words of a Jesus is still exciting and are ageless, but reciting creeds that science has proved irrelevant need to be eliminated. I have hope💞
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Dianne McGuire
I'm sorry yours and others experience with Christian's has been less than Christian. I am a Christian. By definition, I am a human in need of mercy, grace and forgiveness. By definition, I am a hypocrite. By definition I am a work in progress. By definition I mess up repeatedly because I am a human living in a broken world. I'm never going to be perfect. NEVER. I am human. My church is a hospital for sinners not a place to cast judgment on others. We are taught scripture and we study ways to live more like Christ. Christ was an example of helping others, in forgiveness of others, in helping to heal others. He SERVED others. He did not wait to be served. He washed the feet of others. He was humble. As a Christian, that's what we are commanded to do. We are to live our God with all our heart, all our mind and all our being AND we are commanded to love our neighbors as ourselves. It is what we are charged with working to attain. We are sinners first otherwise we wouldn't need Christ. We pull together and respond to crises on micro, macro and meso levels. Together we contribute more money to charities than any other group. But first, we are sinners. We need salvation. We are hypocrites. We go to church then get drunk and watch porn. We are sinners in need of forgiveness and salvation. We cheat on our taxes, we gossip, we cuss and live in domestic violence. We need Christ. We need fellowship. We need a scriptural message that helps us find our way. Research shows that we adopt and identify with the people we associate with. I choose to be with the hypocrites who recognize their need for redemption than with people who don't. I am a sinner. I need mercy, grace, forgiveness and redemption. I look to Christ for those things. I look to fellowship to hold me accountable. I am a practicing Christian. I would be blessed to bring you to the building where we worship and learn together. We the people are the church. The building is a hospital for sinners and we sinners meet together. We are not perfect. We never will be.
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High Priestess Vega
It is about time. I am an ecletic HP. I believe all religions hold some truths. Like I tell most, I am cool with Jesus but not his followers (most of the time). Man-made religion has caused more heartache, grief, pain, suffering, and divide than it is worth. It is far past time for religion to die out.
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Diana Lee Tyree
This is the time of the great falling away! Except for the shortening of time would no flesh be saved. Men have become so embolden that some have been turned over to reprobate minds. It is better for them to not believe that there is a mighty YHVWH GOD because they don't want the consequences for sin. Which is HELL, Death and destruction. Broad is the way that leads to destruction, narrow is the way that leads to life eternal. We who believe are not surprised by this great falling away because it was prophesied over 2,000 years ago. We are free moral agents, free to choose what road we travel in life but we are not free of the consequences of the destination. I choose relationship over religion, O choose to connect my spirit with the Holy Spirit that leads and guides into all truths. I don't know about you but anyone who knew over 2,000 years ago what would happen now in these end times has certainty got my attention! Amen Thank God for the Holy Writ 🙏 🙌 ❤️
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Thomas A. Follis
I haven’t lost my faith and honestly don’t think I ever will. However, due to the situation this country is in and where we’re headed, I probably won’t be the good Christian one might think.
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Keith A Weaver
I'm a Evangelical Christian and have no problem with evolution or the big bang theory. And definitely not a member of the religious right.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Keith A Weaver You do know evolution was discovered by devote Christians. And the Big Bang was discovered by a Catholic Priest. Albert Einstein thought the Catholic priest was wrong.... And then realized he was wrong and the Priest was right. The priest also provided God and the Bible was grossly wrong when it came to Genesis and the story of creation. The priest showed everyone God got it wrong for days 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. Just another reason young people think Christians are dope/stupid.
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Pastor George Day
Douglas Robert Spindler... right... so the priest was there at the beginning to eyewitness everything, right? Everything is theory, including the Big Nang... until they come up with a better theory. I stick with the old story, thanks.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Pastor George Day I think you don't know or understand the scientific definition of theory. Have you taken a sciences class? Theory is the word that's used when we know something has not been disproven. Do you believe in Gradational Theory? Germ Theory? Theory of Evolution?
As for the Big Bang we have pictures thanks to the Hubble Telescope and the James Web Telescope. These telescopes have allowed us to look back to the beginning of time.
As for the old story, it's been proven to be wrong be wrong by so many people over thousands of years why do you still believe in something that everyone knows is wrong. Take a look at the pictures and see for yourself.
It's statements like yours, " I stick with the old story, thanks. that the educated youth hear that makes them not want to have anything to do with religion. Just goes to show you are stuck in your ways and even when you can see, hold and use evidence of the big bang you still insist it didn't happen.
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Pastor George Day
Douglas Robert Spindler, first of all, when I say I stick with the old story, what I mean to say is that that is all I'm interested in. It has worked for over 6000 years, and it can still work. Genesis does not claim to be a book of science, nor of history. It simply discloses the deep fracture that has occurred between man and God, and points to the roots and the solution. That's all I need. If you believe it is possible to go back in time over millions of years, my hat's off! Bingo! I have what I need. And yes, I have studied science since I am an academic, but I have then opted for theology. That is what I am studying now, viz: Theology of the Body, Biblical Hermeneutic, Church History and Jewish Theology. I think I am pretty stuffed. Thank you.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Pastor George Day Genesis does not claim to be a book of science, nor of history. So if it's not a book of science nor of history what is it? And I think you answered the question, it's fiction. A collection of stories. If that's all you need in life, more power to you.
Sad you didn't keep up you study of science and the connection with God in the world of sub-atomic particle physics. Physicists who study this world use explain things in terms of God. If you ever doubt the existence of God sub-atomic particle physics will change your mind. It's beautiful.
If you are studying Hermeneutics have you examined the Oxyrhynchus Papyri? There is an excellent video on church history, Martin Luther and the reformulation on YouTube you might be interested in viewing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXK9NNp1yk4&t=1569s&ab_channel=RickSteves%27Europe
If you are studying Church history then you must be very familiar with the The Didache or the The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations.
Have you studied the the Mormon and John Frum religions? How they were started and have they have evolved over the years.
Tell me what if you are studying the Theology of the Body why you are no longer studying science. Theology of the Body is the foundation of science and empirical knowledge. And it even includes sex.
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Christopher Tracey Robertson
Something To Consider:
God is all powerful, The Great I Am:
Is it possible for Him to create an entire evolving universe with all the trappings? Placing markers in this universe that allows lower beings like us mere humans to discover and come to our own beliefs. God does not force us to believe in Him. God actually wants us to believe in Him. It is a special thing to most people when they watch a child believe in something. Seeing that child's behavior morphs to encompass that belief. Examples: Being better all year because of the Belief in Santa Clause. Feeling very lucky because they found one Four Leaf Clover. Belief is a very powerful thing. Belief can and has been used as a weapon (propaganda). A person can get another person to believe something they do not believe for good or ill. Belief brings with it Faith. Most people act or are motivated by the Faith in what they Believe in. That said: One can be an analyst and a scientist and Choose to believe in God above it all. I therefore do not give much credence to what people say or write. I observe how they live. I see what they believe in by the actions they perform in their daily lives. That has been the gold standard in Profiling or Developing a Profile on Many Criminals (forensic science). Science is meant to Enhance ones Belief in God. Science is Not meant to turn one away from God.
Again...These are thoughts from a mere human. Feel free to dismiss at your leisure.
“You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it.” – Morpheus
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Christopher Tracey Robertson You bring up several good points. If God is all powerful how come God hasn't done much lately? Let's take a look, • 10,000 years ago, God creates the universe, man and woman. • 5000 years ago, God parts the Red Sea. • 2000 years ago, virgin birth and resurrection. • 200 years ago, heals the sick, less frequently as medicine advances. • 20 years ago, God speaks to televangelists, usually to tell them to ask for money. • 5 years ago God helps a losing football team win a few games. • 2 years ago, Jesus appears on a slice of toast
Sure looks like God has become powerless.
You will find young people today are much less likely to believe in God. You don't need to believe in God to be a good person. One of the many reasons young people have lost their faith in God is because their prayers to God go unanswered. Why have faith in an all powerful God when that God doesn't do anything? They view it as being silly.
Christians have used science for thousands of years to enhance ones belief in God and prove their is a God. What's happened is the opposite. When young people learn about the religious work of that Belgian Catholic priest, Georges Lemaître, who is also a theoretical physicist, mathematician, astronomer, and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Louvain discovered that God and the Bible completely wrong they lose their faith and their interest in religion. For nearly 2,000 years science shows us the bible is wrong. Heck we have the Oxyrhynchus Papyri which are the many drafts of the Bible to demonstrate to us the Bible is NOT the word of God, but the creation of man.
What are your thought's on the Oxyrhynchus Papyri?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Christopher Tracey Robertson You bring up several good points. If God is all powerful how come Gpd hasn't done much lately? Let's take a look, • 10,000 years ago, God creates the universe, man and woman. • 5000 years ago, God parts the Red Sea. • 2000 years ago, virgin birth and resurrection. • 200 years ago, heals the sick, less frequently as medicine advances. • 20 years ago, God speaks to televangelists, usually to tell them to ask for money. • 5 years ago God helps a losing football team win a few games. • 2 years ago, Jesus appears on a slice of toast
Sure looks like God has become powerless.
You will find young people today are much less likely to believe in God. You don't need to believe in God to be a good person. One of the many reasons young people have lost their faith in God is because their prayers to God go unanswered. Why have faith in an all powerful God when that God doesn't do anything? They view it as being silly.
Christians have used science for thousands of years to enhance ones belief in God and prove their is a God. What's happened is the opposite. When young people learn about the religious work of that Belgian Catholic priest, Georges Lemaître, who is also a theoretical physicist, mathematician, astronomer, and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Louvain discovered that God and the Bible completely wrong they lose their faith and their interest in religion. For nearly 2,000 years science shows us the bible is wrong. Heck we have the Oxyrhynchus Papyri which are the many drafts of the Bible to demonstrate to us the Bible is NOT the word of God, but the creation of man.
What are your thought's on the Oxyrhynchus Papyri?
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Christopher Tracey Robertson
@Douglas Robert Spindler
You actually argued the point in detail that I brought to this discussion. My argument in this debate is, "People get the Choice to Believe and have Faith in what they Choose."
Everyone (and I do mean EVERYONE on this planet that is sentient) will Believe in Something. They will also have Faith in that Something. Their Belief and Faith will Define that person.
That said, what i think about this or that historical document or document is absolutely irrelevant.
I have my Belief. I am absolutely aware of what other people Believe and Why they Believe what they Believe. I can observe the way they live and I can ask questions where they are able to share the way they live. I would have no issue if a person believed in The Brick With a Dog Carving as their God. I would simply be interested and find out what I can about their Belief. As far as I would be concerned it would extend to the question, "Does the Belief system have a Positive impact on their life and contribute Positive outcomes to Society?" If it does, Great. If it doesn't, I just don't personally connect with that person.
People have an issue with me Believing in God (I Am). I have no issue or quarrel with what they Believe in. My quarrel is with the actions that Destroy Lives.
Five Examples:
- Sex work is real work
- People who are attracted to children (17 and Under) and act on their attraction are M.A.P.S "minor attracted persons"
- Believe all women
- Legal abortion is not murder
- What a person has done in their past is irrelevant
I'm watching those three things complicate and destroy peoples lives. Now if a person's belief system allows for the promotion and advancement of those ideals, I'll have no part in it. If the belief system is against those ideals, we have common ground that I completely acknowledge.
Young people are being deceived and destroyed. The Super Majority of the Secular and Belief Systems: Feed, Encourage, Celebrate, Champion ... Children into Self Destructive Lifestyles and Patterns.
If Christianity saves any one child from a life full of regret and horrible outcomes, I'm for it. Even if there are flaws.
If I were an almighty being that created my own people in my image, I would put in place the ability for my people to choose to not believe in me. Why? Because the ones that do believe actually have Faith.
Anyone can bring me their evidence that My God (I Am) is Not real. Their evidence will Not cause me to change My Belief. Conversely, My Belief and My Life due to My Belief causes people to Question Their Belief Systems. And I don't even need to start the conversation.
"I do not deal in problems; I deal in solutions" - Me
“What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad.” – Morpheus
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Christopher Tracey Robertson You make several very good points. Let me address a few of them.
"People get the Choice to Believe and have Faith in what they Choose." Yes and no. It depends on where they live and if they have been brainwashed to believe something which is not true or have been deceived. Magic and in the news today is Alex Jones, the man who claimed the students and parents the the Sandy Hook School shooting were actors. Alex Jones convinced and deceived many American into believing they were. We know and have always known they were not and that he was lying. Millions of people believe they will be healed by preachers if they listen to them and give them money. Unfortunately millions have died from their lies.
You can you have your belief and I can have mine and they can be very different. Thanks to a priest we use the science and the scientific method to commutate to every what we know to be true to each other.
I know you believe young people are being deceived and destroyed. The Super Majority of the Secular and Belief Systems: Feed, Encourage, Celebrate, Champion ... Children into Self Destructive Lifestyles and Patterns.
I will agree that is what you believe, however young people using their God given freewill disagree with your beliefs. They are looking at the all of the credible evidence and find what you believe to be true is incorrect.
They see Christian beliefs to be destructive to society and to their friends. Just look at your own words... "Legal abortion is not murder" In the United States murder encourages and was completely legal if the person was a Native American of Mormon.
A legal abortion is not murder it's the legal termination of an unborn life. Why is there are a problem killing an unborn life, yet we don't seem to have a problem killing a life that has been born and living with the death penalty? Isn't a born living life something we should protect from being killed?
If you believe God's definition of life begins at conception then God is killing 80% of the lives created. You see we know women spontaneously abort 80% without the women even knowing they are pregnant. One has to wonder why God only allows less that 20% of the lives created to live.
Morpheus quote is outdated and now wrong. What we know when can and do explain. Do we know everything? No, but we thought we did when we believed the word of God and what was written in the Bible. Many priests and men of God have used science to commutate to the world what is written in the Bible, like Alex Jones is a wrong, and in many cases is a lie.
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Burruss Scott Williams
In 50 years? not soon enough
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Douglas Robert Spindler
THIS IS WHAT YOUNG PEOPLE SEE AND HEAR ABOUT CHRISTIANS.
The Catholic Church’s decades-long sex abuse scandal caught up with a Nobel Peace Prize winner Thursday, with the Vatican confirming that it had sanctioned the East Timor independence hero, Bishop Carlos Ximenes Belo, following allegations that he sexually abused boys there during the 1990s.
The Vatican admission came a day after a Dutch magazine, De Groene Amsterdammer, exposed the claims against the revered Catholic bishop, citing two of Belo’s alleged victims and reporting there were others who hadn’t come forward in East Timor, where the church wields enormous influence.
WHY WOULD ANY YOUNG PERSON WANT TO BE PART OF A CHRISTIAN ORGINIAZATION WHERE THEY MIGHT GET RAPPED AND MOLESTED BY A PERSON CLAIMING TO BE A REPRESENTITIVE OF GOD? ANSWER – THEY DON’T
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Janis Carol Sommers
To think that no religions, other than Christianity, created the United States and that losing a Christian majority stronghold on this country is something to be worried about is born of being kept ignorant of the history of the people who have been here for thousands of years and other ethnic groups who have been made to assimilate to a majority religious rule. We only know a fraction of what people believed who settled here. Wise up. I cannot understand why this is an article of interest to any of us. Are we not inclusive of all beliefs?
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Pastor George Day
Janis Carol Sommers, you do realize that the ancient Aztecs and Maya used to perform human sacrifices, right?
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Clayton Lee Pratt
As an atheist I find this news a relief. I've spent a lot of my life dealing with people forcing their religion on me unsolicited. It's extremely rude, on my own doorstep, grocery shopping, walking down the street, they are literally everywhere waiting to invade peoples personal space. Yes, goodbye religion. I only got ordained to help friends marry without religious influence.
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Pastor George Day
The Universal Life Church Monastery invites each of its ministers to define religious terms as they see fit, but for the purposes of this guide we shall define the following.
“Religion,” as ULC Monastery defines it, is a method by which a sentient entity can bring out some profound beneficial change. The ULC Monastery prefers this definition to all others because it encompasses all world religions as well as most other less prominent faith systems. One interpretation of this definition is that all religions have a way of expressing that humankind at large has some flaw.
The flaw makes all who possess it unsatisfied The flaw is the only cause of dissatisfaction A specific faith system is a way to relieve the flaw (Please note that while many definitions of religion will cover major world religions, this particular definition also respectfully applies to non-spiritual faith systems such as atheism.)
(From ULC Monastery guidelines)
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Pastor George Day
Faith
Belief in the absence of proof, supported by evidence which is not universally recognized (Ibid)
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Christopher Tracey Robertson
The United States becoming more Secular shouldn't surprise anyone. I've seen the decline since 2005. The trend received more steam once social media embedded itself into society. Moreover, among all the scandals and misrepresentation of the Bible and 'Christian' community, the choice of being a 'Christian' or even mentioning 'Christianity' in public or on social media, is almost a clear road to being ripped apart in life in general.
So, while this is problematic, it's not without a very difficult solution. When I say Difficult, I'm actually being optimistic. The solution I see would surely place any one or group of people at odds with the Super Majority on all Social media.
I'll give three points to help your understanding:
- 100% unified belief in the Bible as the Standard
- 100% unified belief in Baptism (Why and How and When Baptism should happen
- 100% unified belief that God the Father, Son & Holy Spirit are Real
I'm positive that there is no Unity in not arguing with those three points without even my expounding wit the practical applications needed to achieve those three things.
So, I'll just say this: The biggest problem is personal accountability. This needs to happen with Most men and the Majority of women. Unfortunately, the Majority of men are held accountable for lies and false accusations along with the fact that society says 'Being a Man simply Makes You Accountable for Everything You Do. Whereas for women, society dictates that You are Not Accountable for Your Behavior and Choices.
The "Legal" and 'Social Standards' pretty much make Christianity Impossible in this current Generation based on Personal Accountability alone.
The whole of the Christian Organization(s) needs to be rebuilt on solid truth or morals. The only other thing is to choose to be the Shrewd Person who is the Odd Man Out.
These are just the thoughts of a guy choosing to share. Feel free to dismiss what I said completely.
“I stand here, before you now, truthfully unafraid. Why? Because I believe something you do not? No, I stand here without fear because I remember. I remember that I am here not because of the path that lies before me but because of the path that lies behind me.” – Morpheus
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Pastor George Day
Christopher Tracey Robertson, thanks for sharing something sensible. It was a pleasure to read :-)!
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Susan Christine Giganti
When corruption and abuses come forward , when new pastors are asked to leave a church because they are asking for acceptance of LGBT, when an office demands that people fill out a form stating their income for a tithe, these worldly things drive people away. It doesn’t mean people are not reading a Bible, or trying to love their fellow humans. it means they are not going to a building because for them , fellowship comes with prejudice. In my opinion, there is not enough core teaching about Jesus and the message of how to love one another. The message is love, not judgement. Teaching a prosperity gospel, and having modern and traditional services aren’t enough if the message isn’t seen in how people treat each other.
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Christopher Tracey Robertson
Food for thought:
The Bible and God does not Condemn any Sin. The Bible and God Condemn the Practice of Sin.
That said any person or organization can Choose to say what Practices they Will Not Accept.
Therefore I will not speak of Homosexuality, here is a more controversial example: I know women who currently neglect and abuse their Son(s). I do not allow them to be part of my life. I can work at a job with them. I can be at an event with them. I can do a myriad of things with them. What I do not do is discuss anything of a personal nature with them. Whether it is about my life or their life. I simply do not entertain any personal relationships with them. Here the rub: People actually see me as the Villain.
One should recognize that people are not supposed to have a Personal Standard (in present day society). Why? If I have standards that conflict with another person's belief system (a belief system that does not bring positive outcomes), that alone presents Judgement. My actions will show another person what they are willing to accept. Conversely, other people have caused me to see what I am willing to accept. Here is the difference: I value that Judgement and I examine myself to see if I need to adjust my Actions accordingly.
I also argue that there are indeed many teachings both Biblical and Secular that teach Jesus and How to Love. I do this because I have successfully taught people how to Love the way Jesus Loves without ever mentioning the Bible or Jesus. I simply apply the practical and provide the outcomes available. The person then is accountable for the choice on how to proceed.
There are many Corruptions and Abuses happening right now in the world. The question is will one allow those things to affect their personal lives. Beyond that: What is one going to do if/when those things encroach into their personal space?
“There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.” – Morpheus
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Christopher Tracey Robertson
I want to point something out for consideration:
I've noticed since 2017 a true and growing Hostility towards people in society who identify as a Christian in general. A Mainstream Hostility. Whether it's attached to a political issue or a random feeling in the force. I also found that the #MeToo movement became a thing in 2017. So, I did a surface dive to quell my curiosity. I found that with every Major iteration within the Feminist Movement, the Christianity took a hit. I'm not surprised by this. I'll be the first person here to acknowledge that Christianity in its intended practice does not favor the ideals the majority of women have in present day society. The bible says that women should be Submissive. That's an immediate offence to the majority of the Modern Day Females. I find that amusing since it's actually a suggestion. "Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.", is one of the most notable scriptures. That may seem like a command. It's not a command. It's a guideline. A positive guideline will lead to a positive outcome. That is just a fact of life.
I'll briefly share more about this: Females in current society still have the expectation that a male should be the major, primary or sole provider of the financial side of the relationship despite their having their careers and the super majority of legislation in their favor as a cushion to land on. With that understanding, why should any woman even want to submit to a male. She has no actual need for his resources as a provider. She can provide for herself.
I simply say Fair Enough. I do not know any males that really want to use their resources on a female they do not know. That is a losing investment.
That said, if a female has no desire to be submissive in a relationship she should have no desire to extract financial, emotional or time resources from a male. Simply put: that is just an annoyance. One person cannot have two heads and successfully navigate life. One of those heads would need to go dormant or submit to the other in order for anything to truly get done. If the male chooses the submissive role...
Does 50/50 work in a marriage. I'm going to simply say No. One of the two people is submitting to the other.
"However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband." Here's another scripture that comes often. I don't even need to speak to this scripture. This scripture alone will offend the super majority of females in current society.
...going one layer deeper...
"Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. ..." This scripture could probably incite a riot when said in public. This is a root cause item. Females can go on an application or website to do or initiate all of the listed things globally with ease and no accountability. The super majority of females do this, support this and/or champion this.
Now I'm going to ask those reading this to remove Christianity from the discussion.
Everything listed becomes a list of best practices that bring forth better outcomes.
-foolish talk, crude joking -sexual immorality, all impurity, covetousness
Each of those things are at war with Modern Day Feminism. Why would Christianity be a popular choice in current society? I simply expect it to decline knowing this. Simply this truth alone should cause Christianity to vanish from mainstream society. It is pretty much acceptable to be Christian-Phobic in current society.
Me being a Christian, Scientist, Minister, Veteran (Decorated/Honorable/USAF)... I am neither surprised nor without the expectation for Christianity to decline. I'd be delusional to think otherwise.
“I know who I am! I’m a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude!” – Kirk Lazarus
“Believe me when I say we have a difficult time ahead of us. But if we are to be prepared for it, we must first shed our fear of it.” – Morpheus
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Rev Mary
Evangelicals are not true Christians and have commandeered Christianity for their own agendas which are often bigoted, heartless and cruel. The true message of Jesus was simple: love on another and do good to them. Thats it. All else is an agenda that he did not support and likely added much later. There are good compassionate people that follow Christ's message around the world, one of kindness, compassion. For all of you who do not know that or prefer to bash everyone who follows his true path, here is an example: https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/07/us/georgia-urban-farming-hunger-food-deserts-cnnheroes/index.html
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Quinn R Amaro
The New Testament made it clear this would happen
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Quinn R Amaro
The New Testament made it clear this would happen
The only thing Christianity taught me in the first 2 decades of my life was self loathing, and no sense of self. I wanted to be totally worthy in Gods eyes but every Sunday sermon brought more guilt, more self hate until I couldn't take being such a sinner and condemned to hell. So I tried to do God a favor and tried to take my own life. I found more peace and inclusion in Wiccan, Paganism, and Buddhism. With Christianity losing steam I feel hope for the lost ones, the exiled, the emotionally tortured, that they can find their way without overwhelming voices of hypocrisy, violence, and judgment, and embrace solace in the spiritual God of all.
Cheryl, I am so very sorry that happened to you. Guilt and fear are powerful motivators; it is why cults use them to hold their members in place. I hope that you found and continue to find the support that you want and need.
People are discovering other forms of spirituality and as more knowledge is available they move away from rigid teachings and falsehoods.
Cheryl Anne Hamm, I apologize to you on behalf of all Christians. In my church, you would certainly be most welcome. Please, check this link https://theologyofthebody.webador.co.uk/online-chapel
Christianity was unpopular 2,000 years ago when it was being persecuted by the Roman Emperors in the Coliseum and Christians fed to the lions and it is unpopular now with many people in here and in the world, but its unpopularity then and its unpopularity now have no relevance whatsoever to its being right and truth because right and truth aren't proved by popularity polls or untruth proved by something being unpopular. Can 40 million Frenchmen be wrong? Yes, and so can billions of anti-Christian or non-Christian people be wrong, especially considering the nature of the individuals in the worldly herd, who don't really think for themselves, to go along with whatever the rest of that herd are doing and "thinking". If they were really thinking for themselves, they wouldn't be part of the worldly herd. One with God is a majority and everyone against God is a minority. Everyone doing or thinking something is no intelligent reason for doing or thinking it. Christianity when it is rightly followed and taught is right and truth because God says that it is, and is wrong only when it isn't rightly followed and taught.