Pope Francis capped off his 10th anniversary as the supreme pontiff with some controversial comments.
In a recent interview, Pope Francis suggested that the principal of priestly celibacy – the requirement that all priests in the Catholic Church remain unmarried and abstain from sex – could be just a “for now" kind of thing, not necessarily forever.
"There is no contradiction for a priest to marry,” Pope Francis said. “Celibacy in the western Church is a temporary prescription. It is not eternal like priestly ordination, which is forever whether you like it or not. On the other hand, celibacy is a discipline."
The pope's comments have led to speculation that this nearly thousand-year-old practice could be coming to an end.
They've also sparked renewed dialogue about clergy celibacy, its history, and Pope Francis’ own perceived progressive leanings.
Best Laid Plans
Clergy celibacy dates back to the 11th century, and is one of the Catholic Church’s most well-known and celebrated traditions.
The most important figure in the Catholic world suggesting it might not be permanent has sent shockwaves through religious circles.
Curiously, this announcement seemingly flies in the face of comments made by Pope Francis just a few years ago on this very same subject.
In 2019, Pope Francis signaled his belief that celibacy remain mandatory, arguing that it is “a gift” and that he “does not agree with allowing optional celibacy.”
Four years later, has Pope Francis changed his tune? The pontiff cited the Eastern Catholic Church – where celibacy is not a requirement, as a consideration. “Everyone in the Eastern Church is married, or those who want to,” he explained. “Before ordination there is the choice to marry or to be celibate.”
An Old Tradition
Clerical celibacy has been the norm in the Catholic Church since the Second Council of the Lateran, convened by Pope Innocent II in 1139. There, marriage for clergy was declared invalid – although clergy would continue to marry and bear children in secret for several hundred years afterwards.
While ostensibly adopted so that clergy could more closely emulate the celibate Christ, some historians have speculated that the Catholic Church had other motivations.
Primarily, money. No sex means no heirs, meaning clergy were a whole lot more likely to bequeath their fortune to the Church in their wills.
Still, not everyone was on board with priestly celibacy.
Protestant Reformer Martin Luther believed that marriage was necessary to avoid what he believed to be a very grave sin: masturbation. "Nature never lets up...we are all driven to the secret sin,” he once stated. “To say it crudely but honestly, if it doesn't go into a woman, it goes into your shirt."
Well, that’s one way to put it.
What do make of Pope Francis's change of heart on the question of celibacy? Is such a sacrifice an important part of the priesthood, or should clergy be allowed to live their lives as everyone else does?
When it comes to certain sects, should there be sex?
82 comments
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Mary Haviland
The whole concept of priest not marrying the first place and staying celebite in the first place has always been retarded.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
Your use of the “R” word is disgusting.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
If you look at the history of the Catholic church Celibacy was not always the case. Priest were allowed and did marry. Can remember when but I think it was in the 1200s when celibacy implemented. Why? Financial... The Catholic church did not want the church or church property going to any of the priests heirs.
Church is screwed now. Over the past 20 years the number of priests has declined by 50%. They are in desperate need of of priests. So TEMPERARALLY allowing them to have sex might attract more people to the priesthood.
Doubt if it's going to work
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William Edward Giers
Another reason for celibacy is if the Priest is married, there is concern that having a family would split his time and attention from priestly duties. And offer special privileges to his family over another.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@William Edward Giers Good thought, but no that's not one or two of the reasons. Take a look at history of the church. Remember at it's core, the Catholic church is a corporation and is in the business of selling religion. By not allowing priests to get married and even better celibate protects the church from legal claims by heirs after the priests death. It's as simple as that.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
You're just plain anti-catholic.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@How is stating facts anti-Catholic. Catholics are doing a wonderful job of being anti-Catholic... They don't need my help.
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Gregory B. Gregory
Didn't anyone among these commenters read St. Paul's admonition to his followers? "In consideration of the present troubles [persecution ~~ up to and including burning at the stake of Christian preachers and their families], it is better not to marry."
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Gregory B. Gregory No, people don't read the Bible or or if they do, they don't understand it. Christians find It's just easier to make stuff up and lie.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
fallacy. Of course not. They probably can't read. Just spout crap they see in a movie or hear others comments. The arguments are fictional and humorous at the same time.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
when you understand the history of why celibacy was instituted then you can make a comment.
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Minister Linde
It would seem that the motivation to make celibacy optional again is the same as it was to make it mandatory in the first place - money! The Catholic Church will attract way more clergy by dropping the mandatory celibacy nonsense. The number of men who enter Catholic seminaries has been dropping for several decades and this would certainly be a way to at least try to reverse that trend - and, also, make the Church seem more "woke" to younger Catholics who tend to leave the Church or at least regular Mass attendance and tithing once they leave the parental home. So, yeah, as always with the Catholic Church (I grew up in it, so the money thing is definitely an ongoing theme), it's about money and control. Just my opinion, of course. However, if this does happen, I would not be surprised to see the Catholic priesthood finally opening up to women...some day.
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Michael Hunt
Respectfully, allowing priests to have sex would have nothing to do with making the Church more "woke" since the term is defined as "aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice.)"
If the Catholic Church wanted to be more "woke" they would want to do things like investing in minority communities, advocating for equal pay for women in the work force, or informing their congregations that the LGBTQ community deserves equal rights.
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Lori-Ann Neeb
I have seen it written that priests did marry until about 1100 when policies changed due to married priests costing more money to the church. The heir issue mentioned in replies makes sense too. I hope they do go go back to original policies that allow priests to marry. Female priests would be nice also eventually.
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Reverend Marika
People imagine that by letting Catholic priests marry that this will solve the entire child molestation/pedophile problem in the Church. Nothing could be further from the truth. There are plenty of child molesters and pedophiles who also happen to be married. The problem is in the seminaries; they need to do a better job of filtering out these criminals. As long as child molesters and pedophiles can find their way through the seminary system, they will find their way to the children in their parish and the problem will persist.
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Bernie James Rocheleau
As someone who had grown up in the Catholic Church and worked for a Catholic Diocese for several years, I came to know priests who left the Church or at least the priesthood to get married, priests who are gay, priests who would like to be able to marry, all of them very fine men and excellent pastors. After changing to Lutheranism when I got married, I experienced 100% married clergy, men AND women, which cemented my belief that the experience of marriage and family is indispensable in the pastoral duties and Christian leadership of the clergy. While it's not for everyone, for those who would choose marriage, it would do much more to bring them closer to God than any perceivable harm.
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Rev. Kev
There are historians that say the celibacy policy was enacted because bishops were ordaining their sons and passing on the church properties to them as sort of an earned family inheritance. In this way the families built up large fortunes and estates. Bishops and Cardinals often bought their way to their titles. Or were gifted them for some political reason. Laity one day. Instant cleric the next. Usually wielding a lot of power, both religious and secular. Celibacy -- which was loosely based on Paul's writings on the value of being celibate -- chopped off the practise by preventing clergy from having families, and family generational estates. Bishops and Cardinals still have a ton of money and power at their disposal. Just no wife and kids to lay claim to it.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but absolutely not. When you took the oath of becoming a priest, then you agreed to a vow of celibacy. If you now what to break your vow, then you should also be removed from the priesthood as if they cant trust you to keep your word, then how can they trust you to teach the churches teachings? You have way too many people joining religions and then all of a sudden they decide they dont like some of the teachings and want to change them to fit themselves. Not going to happen. If you are a Catholic Priest and you want to have sex or get married, then move to another religion. You should have thought of all of this BEFORE you joined the religion and its not the religions that should change to fit your flavor of the month decision.
Want to bet that if the Cardinals knew all the trouble this Pope would be causing, that he would never have been elevated? And want to guess how long its going to take for another Pope to reverse all this one has done? My safe bet is less then 6 months.
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Lori-Ann Neeb
Before the ban priests married. It was a financial reason for claiming they should not marry. Priests with families were more expensive in the upkeep. And seeing the posts that mention the issues of the church not wanting to deal with the issues of priest heirs, that makes sense too. This pope is trying to undo some of the hypocrisy the Vatican has inflicted for two thousand years. I am not even Catholic but I support the efforts of this pope for the most part. Your Catholic church and Vatican has been hiding truths and manipulating it's members and the world. Your church's whole basis would be destroyed if even some of what they have been lying about for two thousand years ever came to light. I get that your Vatican will never admit to anything for that reason. They would rather die with their lies than own up to any wrong doing. They downplay their known history of inquisitions that murdered millions of innocent people.
Is this the "elevation" you are so proud of? Let priests live as they were meant to live and you worry about yourself more.-
Daniel Gray
Really? When? I have checked the records of the Catholic Church and they have been celibate since Christ. And want proof? ok where are the 12 apostles wives at? Oh wait they didnt exist.
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David Bower
Matthew 8:14- And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.
Mark 1:-29-30 - 29. And forthwith, when they were come out of the synagogue, they entered into the house of Simon and Andrew, with James and John. 30. But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her.
Luke 4:38 - And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.
So as you can see, Peter had a wife. Don't believe what the Babylonian church writes or says Daniel, they have plenty of false doctrines,
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Children raised in a pastoral setting usually turn out to be the wildest kids there is. This is due to the strict upbringing and example they have to be.
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Daniel Gray
And you have some valid proof of this or is it just your opinion?
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Tom Herman
For Pope Francis to continue the discussion of priest celibacy shows his understanding of the times we live in. I've never understood priest celibacy nor agreed with the concept. As a youth, I was on a track to enter the seminary. That ended quickly, as soon as I discovered girls. For the first thousand years of Christianity priests were like all other men, married and had families. Devoting your life to austerity and poverty could be a problem for priests. A husband should be a good provider and in our modern times be an equal partner in marriage. Since the church provides and supports priests, I can see a problem for the Church supporting the families. I admit I don't know how other denominations do it. They probably expect the congregation to give a lot more to the church support. Maybe the spouse is expected to be the provider? While I understand there are many problems that need to be worked out, the Pope moving in this direction shows much progressive thought on at least his part if not the Catholic Church as a whole. I support Catholic priests being allowed to marry. Now, we or the institution of the Church just needs to figure out the answers to all the spinoff questions, ie., support, property ownership, inheritance, etc. I think this will take many years to come to resolution. However, the Church being faced with a declining clergy will promote a lively and continued discussion.
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David Bower
Considering Roman Catholics believe Peter was their first Pope, which of course he wasn't, why then do they not follow the tradition of marrage as Peter did,
The three Synoptic Gospels recount how Peter's mother-in-law was healed by Jesus at their home in Capernaum (Matthew 8:14–17, Mark 1:29–31, Luke 4:38); this passage clearly depicts Peter as being married or widowed. 1 Corinthians 9:5 has also been taken to imply that he was married.
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Lionheart
I wonder if Pete's mother-in-law ever wrote any epistles? 🤔
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Shirley Ann Friar
Greetings from Minister Shirley - to David Bower:
I appreciate your post. It appears as though you are well read, and know about the Catholic tradition. I would love to get your insights regarding a terrible issue in the spirit world with me. I appreciate your opinion, etc. in advance.
Is there anyone other than me, who suffer immensely from words spoken against God? The Triune God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
I am seeking help from other Universal Life Church ministers who are affected in spirit, soul (mind) and body based on what others say specifically about ministers. A distasteful thing that I had a vision of was a snake crawling forward. This was followed by a psychotic break and 2 days on the psyche ward in a hospital. There were other subsequent visions before hand - good and bad, but very vivid visions that carried messengers to communicate helpful information. Symptoms:
1. Extreme fatigue and feeling faint to the point of "not being able to make" it or live. This has been a persistent feeling for 2 or 3 months - with my strength growing weaker and weaker, almost nil at times. 2. A constant feeling of myself not able to survive other's words spoken against God Triune, as a minister of God - nor how
God represents me with favor through Jesus Christ (Yesua) and Holy Spirit - Vicar of Christ and Paraclete.Kindest regards, Minister Shirley Friar
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Lionheart
It sounds as though you have become a victim of deep religious indoctrination, Shirley, that only a good therapist might be able to help. I genuinely wish you well on your journey of recovery. 🤗
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Amy Minckler
Celibacy has always seemed odd to me. There are so many passages in the bible that say in one way or another "Go forth and multiply". No where does it say "Only some of you may go forth and multiply".
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Rev. Kev
Paul did write that it was better to be celibate, and to only marry if one couldn't control their urges. But I suspect Paul had his own, undiagnosed issues. He was also pretty sure Jesus was coming back before he died. So it's not like we can say he had a direct line with the Almighty and his opinions carried divine weight.
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David Cox
Rev. Kev That's to encourage the people to be always ready....not to be conformed to this world's thinking....Follow Jesus and you will know the truth and the truth shall set you free
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Lionheart
How can anyone know the truth of anything if all one is relying on is faith? Hindu's are following their "truth". Moslems, and Mormons, et al, are following theirs, and all are relying on their faith, because that's all they have. 🤷🏼
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David Cox
Comment removed by user.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@Amy Minckler If you look at the history of the Catholic church Celibacy was not always the case. Priest were allowed and did marry. Can remember when but I think it was in the 1200s when celibacy implemented. Why? Financial... The Catholic church did not want the church or church property going to any of the priests heirs.
Church is screwed now. Over the past 20 years the number of priests has declined by 50%. They are in desperate need of of priests. So TEMPERARALLY allowing them to have sex might attract more people to the priesthood.
Doubt if it's going to work.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Church is using free sex to attract people to the priesthood. (As if there weren't enough priests who are child molesters and rapists in the church right now.)
What's going on is over the past 20 years the number of priests has declined by 50%. Church is in desperate need of of new priests. So the thought is, TEMPERARALLY priests have sex might attract more people to the priesthood.
Doubt if it's going to work.
Celibacy was not always the case with the church. Priests were allowed to marry and have kids. Reason for celibacy is financial the Catholic church did not want any heirs to lay property claims to the church. (Building, property, money or gifts.)
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William Edward Giers
You have a point. Having worked sexual abuse cases, the Catholic Church had moved closer to the number of sexual abuse cases as the Baptist Church, the LDS ("Morman Church"), the Jewish religion (which also includes the acceptance of sucking the blood off the infant whose penis they just ritually mutilated and giving that infant Herpes for the rest of their life), not to mention the greatest segment of sexual abuse in any religions community, from minister, Elder's Council, Sunday school teachers, and Youth Ministers, is the "independent Protestant Christian Churches" where there is usually no oversight and the local paster is the final authority. AND, ALL of those churches and temples allowed marriage. The difference in perception is based on how much it is publicized vs. the actual statistics. In many communities, there is concern about their "public leaders", LE and local government officials attend that church and things are covered up. Minister transfer, the formation of a new, seperate church. The division within a Protestant church isn't always over a dispute over the color of the carpet. Many communities see themselves as "that would never happen here" yet, if you worked in law enforcement or worked the emergency department in a hospital or as a counselor/therapist you would have a better idea of all the sexual abuse that happens "even in nice communities".
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Douglas Robert Spindler
@William Edward Giers I think it would be fair to say sexual abuse cases happen in all religions. What makes Catholics and Mormons really bad is the structure of the church and that both are really corporations which sell religion. With the Mormons just getting busted and fined by the SEC for hiding $200 Billion dollars from the government and Mormons are furious. That $200 Billion was given to help those in need, instead it's going to make a few Mormons very wealthy. As a result Mormons, especially Mormon women are speaking out over the sexual misconduct that occurs in the church. Its all over social medial.
And this is not to say that religious types are involved in sexual misconduct. We are seeing this within police departments, prisons, and with judges. (We already know it's been going on with politicians.)
As young people hear, see and possibly experience these sexual attacks against children and women don't you think they are thinking is this something I want to be part of?
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
Celibacy is temporary, just like fasting is temporary. That's why "breakfast" gets it's name, "Break Fast".
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Colleen McAllister
Honestly I don't care what Cathiloics think is right. I am a Christian and follow the teachings of Christ. These other requirements that various denominations have added on to Christianity have nothing to do with the commands of Christ. Or the original 10.
Requiring healthy men to remain celibate is to put extra stress on them. It is probably a main reason behind the molestations going on. If someone chooses to be celibate all blessings on them. If some one finds it difficult to do then let them alone. To be blunt God did not ask anyone to forgo sex. He asked us not to sleep around. Priests or ministers of any denomination should be held to the moral standards Jesus mentioned in the New Testament. It covers the original 10.
Love God more than anything or anyone. Love those around you (neighbors) as much as you love yourself. The rest will fall into place.
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William Edward Giers
To be fair in this discussion, I imagine you do not use the KJV bible. As the title on the cover clearly states, VERSION. Which means different from the original. A MAN changed what he didn't like and wrote his version. On what you base your faith is certainly your decision but, you cannot claim Christ centered and GOD inspired if you rewrite the Bible.
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Lionheart
And if one had original writings how could one claim they were inspired by a deity if there is no demonstrable evidence any deity exists?
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Susan Christine Giganti
There is no such thing as an original Bible. There are languages in which the Bible stories and verses were written. Those words have been translated through the centuries. A version was only as good as the translator’s knowledge of words. There are books that were left out of some versions and some kept in. Published that way to suit the point of view of the denomination who was supposed to read that version. The KJV was dedicated to King James because it was published during his lifetime , but the groundwork for that translation was in motion during the late Tudor dynasty.
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Lionheart
Thanks, Susan. I understand that many believe King James to have been homosexual. If that is true, I wonder how many know they read the version of a book of a homosexual? 🤭
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Lionheart
No one has any idea what Jesus ever really said. Why would anyone follow “teachings” of written material by authors who never met the person they wrote about decades later 🤷🏼. Great story though, but definitely not for children.
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Rev. Kev
Tack on to that the fact that we have no original material. There are some very old, and sometimes very small, fragments. But no originals.
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Rev. B
@Lionheart, have you read any of the gnostic gospels? I think you would enjoy the gospel of Thomas. It is simply just quotes of Jeebus.
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Lionheart
I did once glance over it. I'm sure it wouldn't have passed the test during Emperor Constantine's reign. 🤭
I understand there was a Gospel of Judas, and also some supposed writings of Mary?
I'm actually very surprised that Jesus's stepdad, Joseph, didn't write anything. He possibly did, but I bet it was full of hate for Jesus's real dad.🤷🏼
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Rev. B
I read them all some years ago, and yes there is a gospel of Mary Magdalene but most of it has been destroyed (on purpose) so it is rather disjointed. Judas' goes into detail of how Judas did nothing wrong, in fact if he did not "betray" Jeebus, he would not have been crucified and mankind would not be saved. He was just performing his role in the story. Interesting stuff.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Heresy. You believe everything you read. So gullible.
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Rev. B
Seriously? I don't know where you got the idea that I actually believe this religious horse-crap, but I don't believe a word of it. It's all the ramblings of a bronze-age goatherder. And you call me gullible. Haha!
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Evelyn Camasura Pearson
Priests are also humans and they also have the rights to enjoy what other men are enjoying. Priests should not be deprived to have sex with women provided it is blessed with the sacrament of matrimony. Priests from other religious sector can marry and have a family of their own and together they serve God as one small group spreading christianity! Minister Eve
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William Edward Giers
What about same sex sexual activity? In California, pedophilia is considered a "normal sexual activity" and let's not forget bestiality. Where would you draw the line?
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Rev. Kev
That whole thing about California is false. It's just another example of misinformation floating around on social media.
As far as bestiality is concerned, every state in the U.S (with the exception of W. Virginia and New Mexico) have specific laws that impose sanctions of varying degrees for the act. It's been illegal in the U.S. military since the 1950s.
It's not because anyone approved of it before, or now, in the various jurisdictions. There has been a general, social and religious condemnation of it since before the founding of our Republic.
What you're doing there is known as the slippery slope fallacy.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Think about emulating Christ as cosplay. You emulate your chosen hero, to the best of your ability. Some can get close, but remember, there is this Wonder Woman cosplay out there: https://pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Halloween-costume-3-wonder-woman-man-facebook-1.jpg
Also remember Christ's ministry was only 3 year long.
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Lionheart
So it says, in that story book. I wonder how much, if any if it, was really true? I wonder if he was real? 🤔
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Leave.
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Lionheart
One of the differences between you and I, Keith, is that I have a love for my fellow man, even if they have different opinions to myself.
All of our comments should be welcome here, Keith. Did the church that you belong to ever teach you about loving your fellow man? 🤷🏼
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Amante Tadique
the arbitrary decrees by officials who benefit from their own decisions should not be taken seriously. This reminds me of the mandalorian where if you dont wear a helmet at all times you forfeit your identity and are apostate, while other mandalorians do not agree with that and only wear one in battle. This old practice may have encouraged pedophiles to seek out being priests and protected by the institution. Best to leave personal choice to whoever wants to be a priest or whatever, or just join the eastern that allows it. Vote with your feet.
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Mary
It's about time! The whole lifestyle is dysfunctional but don't be surprised when priests start marrying other priests because the church is an umbrella for gay men. It was and is a safe haven for a lot of gay men. They never had to explain to their families why they'd never marry a woman and have children simply by joining the church they had a calling and would serve god and no one questioned it. I know someone who was going to become a priest he even graduated from Harvard with honors but as soon as he learned it was an umbrella for gay men he declined and it wasn't because he was homophobic it was simply because he wasn't gay. Not sure how long this is going to take but it appears it's going to take a lot longer considering that most priests are in fact hiding in the closet still today.
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Lori-Ann Neeb
I doubt the issue has anything to do with lifestyle. If any man ever went into the priesthood to try to deal with being gay that was on him alone. They are two separate issues. If in the future two priests ever did marry that would be fine. A simple issue of two people choosing to share a life together regardless of their genders. God does not judge on lifestyle. That is a matter of the entity's true gender and the gender of the reincarnated entity according to the life charts written. A male entity that chooses to live a life as a female for whatever reason would retain their original attractions. Or vice versa
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JaZe
👏👏👏 Learning is part of a Pope's job too. He can no longer set aside reality for the sake of an imagined sin.
I remember the words of a young chaplain conversing with a mother "If I had known how difficult it is to be a priest and remain celibate I would never have become one!"
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Moral of your story is is celibacy is a spiritual gift meant for a few. The rest should be allowed to.marry.
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Man of God
Jonathan
Know this the Father (God), nor the Son (Lord God[Jesus]) are deceivers or liars. They (God or Lord God) did not establish the Roman Catholic Church. That Church was established by the Emperor Constantine. Jesus did not establish a temple. He said his temple is in the hearts of those who believe in him and follow him. Jesus's apostles did not establish a temple. They spread the Gospel and established communities of fellowships to lean and practice the Gospel. The apostle Peter was crucified upside down near what is today called Saint Peter's square by the emperor Nero. At that time there was no Roman Catholic Church, Constantine had not been born yet!
Jesus through his obedience to the Laws of his Father (God, the Creator), became our Lord. Jesus was always the Lord God, but he took on the duty to become one of us through his natural birth. As Jesus the man, he always obeyed the Father up to his crucifixion. Then his rebirth established him as Our Lord and Savior.
On the subject of marriage amongst men. Lev 18:22. "You will not lie with a male as with a woman: it is an abomination." 18:23. "Neither will you lie with any beast to defile yourself with. Neither will any woman stand before a beast to lie down with it: it is perversion."
Lev 11:44. For I AM the LORD your God;....be Holy for I am Holy.
I will close with Pro.1:7. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Leave judgement to the Lord our God for the Father gave that authority to Jesus.
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Lionheart
It’s interesting that all of the worlds gods need us imperfect human beings to defend and promote their supposed omnipotent reality, which is a very clear indication none of them exist if that’s the best they can do to prove their existence. 🤷🏼
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P. Keith Benefiel
Jesus sez: Original sin is not sex, but selfishness.
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Shirley Ann Friar
Greetings from Minister Shirley:
I am wondering if other ministers of non-denominational churches, and Universal Life Church have had some similar circumstances in the spirit world who can help me synthesize what I have gone through.
Symptoms: 1. Family verbal disturbances against me, specifically - followed by actions. This has recently gotten better, however, it bothers me because of words and actions that hindered me with God Triune as the leading force. Good Godly relationships have grown out of proportion for me based on core values that represent family with God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. 2. A recent hospitalization on a psyche unit based on, perhaps, my recent visions that were real. Scare tactics were self-evident in housing communities. This led me into a prolonged vision - lasting sporadically approximately 4 days - good and bad in nature ( 2 days in my apartment, and 2 days in the hospital). Due to a lack of sleep, I called the police to take me to the hospital. Of course, ministers are aware of visionary trances that may last a while, however there was a fear factor with me of a large snake moving forward seemingly, in my direction. Psychiatrists and Psychologists call these hallucinations, but it is suggested never to discredit one hallucinating, but doctors order medicine for such a mental condition.
3. I am a member of a mega-church. The most controversial issue with me was attending a university seminary which accepted, and suggested women be spirit-filled. I don't see a problem with women who are teachers and preachers in church for (discipleship and evangelism). Satan has been on the prowl! Literally taking advantage of words and attitudes that kill in spirit, soul/mind, and body - causing illnesses. Through all of these traumas, God has been true to me as I know him in reality. For trusting him I am most grateful to be spirit-led by the Holy Spirit. 4. I just read the article on Voo-Doo and Hoo-Doo in this issue of ULC's Epistle - Visionary. Does my ignorance of such practices hinder my well-being? If not, could you enlighten me on how to respond to hindering spirits? God's love is very prevalent in my life - but it seems as though Satan has been given permission (obviously) to sift me dry.I would love to hear from other ministers who encounter a Job experience.
Kindest regards, Shirley Friar
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Shirley Ann Friar
Has anyone gone through a Job experience - and as a result encountered Voo-Doo or Hoo-Doo? With prolonged trances that are visions (good and bad). Hospitalization has been a key factor from some experiences in the spirit world. Do you have any responses that you think would be helpful when unusual things occur in the spirit world? Especially negative.
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Lionheart
What exactly is a “spirit world”, Shirley? Do you have any evidence to support your statement that a spirit world is real, whatever that is?
🦁❤️
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Thomas W. Feola
This is absolutely ridiculous... Priests have not been celibate for a 1000 years! As a matter of fact during the middle ages priests were allowed to marry, have relationships, and even allowed to engage with prostitutes in houses of ill repute which were legal then. The catholic church actually encouraged men to have sex with prostitutes to " let off steam "... This all changed with Martin Luther during the renaissance period. Luther convince people that these Whorehouses were an abomination and that the catholic church was violating Biblical principles and the word of god. With public opinion running against them the catholic church revised their position and created celibacy rules for priests. This accomplished 2 things... 1) It shutdown Martin Luther and his attempts at proselytization. 2) Allowed the catholic church to acquire all possessions (money, land etc...) From deceased clergy... Since catholic priests could no longer have wives or children the church inherited all their possessions.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Boy is your study of history messed up.
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Karla K Thomas
I have been reading other stories that say he is not considering it.. So, time will tell. Religion is changing course every day anymore.. hard to really know what is truth and what is not, sometimes.
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David Bower
Shirley, that is a demonic attack. You need every day to confess to our father in heaven your ongoing sin. here is how;
• 1. What you need to do is call out to God and say, Father, I confess all known sin, all unknown sin, all ignorant sin and all unforgiveness. • 2. I rip up every bad crop that I have sown with my mouth or in the things I have done that may not have been of you. Anything I may have said, sung or danced or spoken about or spoken, too. • 3. I place all of it at the foot of the cross. In Jesus' name, I receive your forgiveness. “By faith”, not by feelings, or by sight, no! I receive your forgiveness by faith in your Word and who you are, that you will not lie. • 4. I plead, the Blood of the Lamb, the shed Blood of Jesus over myself now. Washing me whiter than snow, Cleaning all previous sin off me in Jesus' name. This includes guilt and shame. • 5. I will not listen to the devil or any of his cohorts. I will listen to you Father. Your word tells me that if I confess sin unto you, that you will not only forgive me, but you will remove it away from me as far as the east is from the west and you will remember it no more. • 6. I do not need to worry because you have heard me and you love me. • 7. I thank you that the Blood of Jesus will remove all guilt and shame from my mind and by faith I will hold onto that in Jesus' name. • 8. When the doubt comes I will ask you to help me. Now read these scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to place them into your spirit and into your mind and go over them until you know them and you believe them. If you are having doubts about believing these scriptures, then ask God to help you with any unbelief you have, and then walk by faith. That is your responsibility. We can only please God, through our faith, in Him, His word and all his promises.
Now place the whole armour of God upon yourself and go into batle. Ephesians 6. Bind all principalities, powers, rulers of the air and every stronghold that is above you and with the authority Christ has given you, you bind them all in the heavenly relms and you pull them down.
Yopu then command them to loose you, and with the sword of the Spirit You severe all root of attachment to yourself and then you plead the Blood of Christ upon yourselfself cleansing you from all unrighteousness.
This is now who you are as a born again Christian.
Galatians 2:19-21 – 19. For through the Law I died to the law, that I might live to God. 20. I have been crucified with Christ, and I live, yet no longer I, but Christ lives in me. And that life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith toward the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself on my behalf. 21. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness is through law, then Christ died without cause.
.........................................Get this into your spirit as well as, .........................................................
Romans 8:37 - But in all these things we more than conquer through Him who loved us.
Philippians 4:13 - I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me
Hebrews 9:14 - how much more shall the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God) purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God. (The blood will clean you, clean your conscience so coming to God is easy and all the guilt and shame has been taken away, so your relationship with God will flourish unhindered).
Isaiah 1:18–20 - 18. Come now, and let us reason together, says The Lord; though your sins are as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be like wool. 19. If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land;
Revelation 12:10-11 – 10. And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven, Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night. 11. And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony. And they did not love their soul until death.
Pastor David Bower, Providing a Faith-Based Teaching Ministry through God's Word.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
age old argument. Once again fundamentalist take scripture for every word as litetal. Do some study on the doctrine of the Church before you become critical.
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Mary Haviland
To whomever contacted me, you must think I'm stupid. I know exactly why the priest first considered celibacy, but it was illogical then, and it is still illogical. There is no good justification tow as rds it, unless a person, personally wanted to be celibate, but that should be an individual decision, done in a volunteery issue. Otherwise, you have much of the problems which you are having. Jesus Christ never preaches for celibacy. And he was infact married himself, like rabbis were supposed to do. So they didn't learn it from Jesus
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Mary Haviland
To whomever contacted me, you must think I'm stupid. I know exactly why the priest first considered celibacy, but it was illogical then, and it is still illogical. There is no good justification tow as rds it, unless a person, personally wanted to be celibate, but that should be an individual decision, done in a volunteery issue. Otherwise, you have much of the problems which you are having. Jesus Christ never preaches for celibacy. And he was infact married himself, like rabbis were supposed to do. So they didn't learn it from Jesus
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Bull faced lie. Jesus Christ was never married. That is new age bs. You're been watching to.many Tom Hanks movies and to many novels. So quit spouting heresy. You'll go straight to hell.
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Rev. B
What movie did Tom Hanks play Jeebus? I think I missed that one. Or you're just talking out your butt again.
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Mary Haviland
Jesus was married. There is the tablet they found that said my wife, and then there is the fact that to be considered a rabi, you had to be married. And Jesus was not going to disobey that law. You don't know what you're talking about. The info about his wife, prob Mary Magdalen was either that he kept her his out, or there was so much jealousy with him living his wife, prob Mary so much that they omitted it, just as they portrayed Mary to be a prostitute. But it doesn't change the fact that he had to be married to be a rabi. There were many things the Catholic church did that was opposite of what Jesus said to do or did, because the Catholic church is anti-Semite, and they hated the Jews.
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Jerry Dean Griffin
Quite a lot of "interesting" comments here, but mostly just non-Biblical opinions. Everyone, including the Pope, is certainly entitled to their opinions and philosophies and personal beliefs. But for those who believe in the Almighty God (יְהוָה, Yahweh, Jehovah) and in his only begotten son Jesus Christ (The Word), the sole authority upon which that belief can be based is the Holy Bible. It alone is inspired of God and written down for us through men (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 3:1:20-21, 3:3) so that we can be complete and competent in all that God has seen fit to tell us and have us do. No one has to accept that, but those that reject the Holy Bible as God's word run the risk of also rejecting God and his son. None of the opinions, philosophies, non-Biblical beliefs or other thoughts and words of man change what the Holy Bible is to those who believe.
On the basis of the Holy Bible, Pope Francis is correct on one point, singleness or celibacy, is a gift. Not everyone has it. The apostle Paul recognized that and simply said that those who are single, men and women, can focus more on spiritual matters without dividing attention with a wife, husband, or family. But it must be clear that he also said that those who do not have the "gift" should not allow temptation to lead them to sin. It would be better to marry than to sin. Mind you again, he did not say, 'better to relieve your sexual passions with relations of any kind outside the bounds of marriage (in fact, quite the opposite). Paul's very straight forward admonition on singleness and marriage is found at 1 Corinthians 7:1-40.
Regarding overseers, elders, deacons, bishops, et.al. (whatever title is used for the role) Paul consistently says that that man must be the husband of one living wife (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:6). In other words, not that you have to be married or single, but if you are married, you can only have one wife. Peter, who the Bible tells us was married (Matthew 8:14-15), refers to himself as an elder in the Church (1 Peter 5:1). If I recall correctly, Peter ("Saint Peter") is considered to be the first Pope of the Catholic Church.
What I find interesting about Pope Francis' comments though, isn't about the scriptural basis for married or single priests, as important as that is. Rather, it is the recognition given to what the Holy Bible says versus non-Biblical doctrine, rules, and tradition. I personally welcome the Pope's admission (?) and pray that all the doctrines and traditions originated by the Catholic Church and still held by so many non-Catholic Churches would receive the same level of scrutiny against the clear teachings of the Bible. "Test all things [against the Holy Bible]; hold fast what is good." - 1 Thessalonians 5:21
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Rev. Z.D. Caballero
Little known by most folks, even by some Roman Catholics, is that the Catholic Church harbors or is the Mother Chirch to some 22 Congregations, or other catholic churches. The Latin Rite church (The Roman Catholic Church) is only one of the few among the 22 that practices celibacy, or has unmarried priests. In per capita numbers, most catholic priests can marry, and many are. This issue is only an issue for Westerners and those who worship within the Latin Rite. I am glad Francis is rethinking an old canonical law that has no Biblical basis, and became law because of misunderstood religious points. The thousands of priests and ministers in the other rites AND other Christian denominations that ARE good priests and serve their parrishes well, should be more than enough empirical and practical spiritual evidence that unmarried priests, like celibacy, should be a voluntary practice.
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Eric Remington
So when w nun be ones bride of Christ it is ok that priest plants Holy seed in nun?
I am married with three children and 6 grandchildren. It doesn't make me less closer to God! I think this could be one of the smartest things the Catholic Church has considered in centuries. Maybe, just maybe, we can start raising more children that have a greater understanding of right and wrong.
Children raised in a pastoral setting usually turn out to be the wildest kids there is. This is due to the strict upbringing and example they have to be.