One of New York City’s most historic churches is doing what the government won’t: providing reparations for African-Americans for the injustices of slavery and systemic racism.
Middle Collegiate Church, a multiethnic church located in New York City’s East Village, is devoting one tenth of its annual budget - about $200,000 dollars - to righting the wrongs of the past.
The reparations will come in the form of housing assistance and community building efforts, with efforts focused on building a “peacemaking, anti-racist cadre of young people who are learning what adults are learning about anti-racism and how to make a more just America.”
The move comes on the heels of both the incredible job loss caused by the COVID-19 pandemic, and the police killing of George Floyd that sparked worldwide protests that are still ongoing.
Still, reparations remain a hot-button issue in America, with some insisting it is the only moral thing to do after centuries of systemic racism against African-Americans, and others saying the sins of the past should remain in the past.
What does the Bible have to say on the topic?
Biblical Basis
Ask Jacqueline Lewis, head pastor of Middle Collegiate Church, and she might say that investing the church’s funds into African-American youth, helping those who need rent assistance, and developing anti-racist coalitions is the most biblical thing they could do. After all, her church had a troubling start: according to Lewis, the land the church sits on was purchased from the Lenape by Dutch settlers in an unfair transaction, and early clergy were slaveholders.
It’s a way to try and make things right.
“We are doing reparations,” she says. “I think that congregations around the country, who understand how a racist history has brought us to this moment of deep economic disparity, might want to think about how they can make some repair as well. We hope to inspire that.”
She isn’t alone. Keri Day, associate professor at Princeton Theological Seminary, agrees, and cites the case of Zaccheus the tax collector for biblical proof that reparations are biblical.
“Zaccheus is a tax collector who has participated in Roman imperial oppression against marginalized Jewish populations,” she says. “Jesus sits with Zaccheus but is clear with Zaccheus on what his reparative response needed to be and that this reparative response as Zaccheus was tasked to do was not simply and only a political response but was more deeply a theological response… Reconciliation cannot occur until he has given back what he has stolen.”
Day says that this story shows that Jesus has a “reparations ethic”, that God is fully in support of righting the sins of the past - no matter how long it takes.
Forgive and Forget?
Of course, not everyone agrees. Writing at The Federalist, Laura Baxter says that no amount of money can undo the sin of slavery, and that asking the descendants of one group to pay the descendants of another is a miscarriage of justice. To make this point, she cites Ezekiel 18:20, which says,
“The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.”
She also suggests that the biblical thing for African-Americans still feeling the impact of systemic racism today is to forgive. “Christ spoke of forgiveness as the cancellation of a debt. Forgiveness means that when someone wrongs you, instead of trying to collect on that wrong, you forgive the debt,” she says. “If Sutton [Taylor Sutton, a pro-reparations bishop] and the community of faith he represents have truly forgiven white Americans, why are they still acting as if something is owed? Why are they still trying to collect the debt?”
WWJD?
Like seemingly everything in our partisan world, opinions are very divided. And with Congress unable to reach a consensus on, well, anything, it seems highly unlikely that reparations will be taken up any time soon.
But those in favor say that reparations don’t have to be a check for X number of dollars issued to every African-American. In fact, many people in favor of reparations don’t want that. Many, like Pastor Lewis, say that reparations can come in the form of investing in black communities. Ending systemic racism. Giving a leg up to a community that has been marginalized for centuries.
It’s long overdue, they say.
Even Laura Baxter might agree. She says that "Christians should study the structures that promote and hinder human flourishing, and create wise policies."
Where do you stand on the issue of reparations?
83 comments
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Patrick Lewis Lamke
Reparations to a faith, a religion, a skin color or eye shape is ridiculous. Not one citizen in America is directly or indirectly responsible for issues of black slavery in this country. It happened; it ended. Providing money to African Americans for deeds done by others in this country will further the distance between whites and blacks so much so that boundaries are already being set for another Civil War. Nikita Kruschev once said, "America will never be defeated by an attack made at its borders. It will be defeated from inside those borders".
Patrick Lamke, PhD
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John C. Myers
Nothing in the Bible that I know of that talks about wasting your money so this NY church can spend their money as they see fit. I hope their money goes to good use and not to support looting and rioting.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
yeah because that is just what "those people " do right? FFS can you say anything that more obviously paints you as a white nationalist? No never mind, we both no anything more obvious would just get removed from these civil forums.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
You’re wasting your breath in posts like these...most of them are from virulent racists who hide behind their “faith”.
They think anyone with melanin deserves nothing regardless of the situation and would rather they all die so they don’t have to feel guilty any longer.
They know and their evil insides know otherwise though.
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Judith Anne Winters
Kindly fact check your statement. The history of government sponsored programs was designed to help people NOt Black people only.
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Donna L Orr
Paying reparations is a bunch of BS. Most of us have taken a bad hit one way or another. But I'm not responsible for something that was done 150-200 years ago. My family came to this land in 1730 and none of my relatives had slaves. But we and the Irish, Chinese, Japanese and others were treated very badly at one time or another. Then there were 12 Black Slave owners here in the colonies and USA, so lets have all Blacks take a DNA test and if they were related to the black slave owners, then they do not get any reparations, they need to pay reparations. That being said, no one should get reparations for something done that long ago. The way to take care of things is to change for the better, which this country has done, over and over again. The biggest problem we have right now in this country is the attitude that the upcoming generations feel that they are entitled and 13% of the population thinks that they should rule. WE are a country that is supposed to be majority rules.
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Alaine Evans
Why worry about things of the passed.Those that really need the help will not get it.I've witness it in the churches,where they will go out of their way to help someone that doesn't need help but,refused to help the ones that do need help.I believe in doing God's will God's way.We would like to believe that all churches are not self will but,many are when it come to them that needs help. They bring out the application,asking question like what are your doing with your income that you need help etc.I know what I'm speaking of because I was in charge of Care Ministry for the members but there was others over the one in that position.which me I was to do what they wanted.ISaid all of that to say this many ,not all churches,are out of line,going backward instead of doing things according to God's will his way.MANY not All come up with these so called good deed to make a name for themselves,etc.The world or let say America is fleecing all of us ,particularly the poor black, white etc.Therefore how can we correct or changes things of the past when there is so much injustice in our present st this time.Greed is every where.
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Randolph George Linck
If you were ever a slave in the U.S, you should be paid.
If you ever owned a slave in the U.S., you should do the paying.
There's no need to involve anyone else.
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Thomas A. Follis
That’s right America. Give them something else to strip away their own pride and integrity. How about give people a job or give them nothing. There isn’t a person alive today that was a slave or owned a slave. Like everyone else, I have my bills and taxes that I pay on time. May not like them but, I pay them. I DO NOT owe any lazy cry babies a thing. There was a time when Indians owned more slaves than anyone. There was a time when black people owned white slaves. Do you see me sittin here cryin and complaining about someone owing me. NO. I went to school, got an education, got a job and paved my own course. I did it all in n my own and got absolutely NO HELP from any crybabies. You people want something out of your sad pathetic life? Get a job and work for it.
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Thom
My question is this, who supporting this happening on the church board? A church this large must have a financial board and if they agree to make it happen then, it is their money. Personally, I don't agree with this being done but, it is not our money. I also hate the whole part of WWJD? First off, who knows what he or any of the followers would have done. As for paying the community back, have they not been paid enough in other ways from the government? If the black community wants to do something, how about they reduce the amount of single mothers? How about they stay out of prison (if they committed the crime they do the time as does anyone), how about they make sure they are there for their children instead of letting the neighborhood raise them, should they not make sure their children go to school and learn? As Joe Biden would say, C'Mon man ..... But, as any normal person would say, be responsible for yourself, your family and, your actions, do things right and, follow the laws. If we are responsible for our little piece of the world and make it a good place, it all grows and the world becomes a better place.
I am sure this will fall on deaf ears and many will not agree with me. Who cares.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Big ben Shapiro fan eh.First the whole WWJD thing, no its not some open area for debate. Actual ancient christian tradition that we have both written accounts from those early christians and outside sources such as roman accounts, to clearly illustrate that the actual original form of the faith was 100% pacifistic, and entirely about eschewing personal possessions, and living entirely devoted towards their faith as humbly and simply as possible, and a large part of that was helping every person they could, and sharing whatever they had with others.
Here is the thing, just the way you use the term black community, tells me you see a separation. That you see black people as a "them" rather then as just people. Nor are you even capable of even coming close to understanding the long standing systematic oppression of people of color in this country. Paid back enough? Buddy boyo the oppression has yet to stop so they can be paid back.
Maybe recognize that the system that keeps holding people back is by design of those in power with the means to change it for the better. Schools for example. Every other single nation today that has similar origins and modern capabilities like the U.S. has nation standards for their education system, and its paid for and taxed at the national level, to ensure that every citizen of their countries has an equal chance at education.
Out system is by design to hold back poor areas, because if the area is poor, the school stays poor, and just the cycle never ends. This is one of those things we mean when we talk about systemic oppression.
Our legal system is also terribly archaic and flawed. Its not suppose to be about punishment, but rehabilitation of those who act out against the rules of society. However everything about our prison system is designed to create a modern slave class. People spending years of their lives isolated in a very dangerous environment that often involves being raped repeatedly, does not help to break a cycle, but instead serves the exact opposite purpose. Again this is because those in power profit heavily from cheap prison labor programs.
No one makes their own little place better on their own. We exist as a society, a civilization, one that is connected on a global scale. But even thousands of years ago, ideas and innovations had a way of slowly spreading around this world, and creating connections without ever meeting face to face. No child is raised just by the parents, such children raised like that are terrible typically in social development. From our earliest years we are part of that neighborhood, and children with a lot of different family groups they spend time with growing up and having lots of different social contact with people of a lot of ages, are much more social and interactive people. Hence why so many with such a social upbringing enjoy social jobs like in sports or as an entertainer. The anti social issues we see in such communities tends to be a product of the social abuse they get from being oppressed and harassed, and living in fear of being randomly murdered by a man with a badge and gun who seems legally authorized to execute them in the street.
Already covered the school thing above.
Following the laws, you mean the laws that are often not remotely connected with the acts the police engage and often brutalize PoC claim initiated the contact. That we know police are not only largely inept and ineffective from a statistical stand point, but when you factor in the cases of those eventually proven innocent after spending time they can never get back, police are so woefully bad at what they do, that it makes the societal backlash currently being seen easy to understand the origin of. Which is entirely on the shoulders of the public servants and representatives that have for so long manipulated the system and all the people to serve those few in power, just as they always have done.
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Thom
I love how people make assumptions. Shapiro is interesting to listen too and he makes many good points. However, you must be some sort of SJW to know what his points are and many times he is right.
As for the black community, I have no idea what it is like. I don't judge people by their race I judge them by their actions. If someone acts smart, then I treat them this way. If someone acts a fool, I treat them as such. I don't do the whole, well my black friends, blah blah blah. I treat people with a level of respect they have earned and not what they demand.
I love how people say the legal system is flawed. I am no lawyer and don't pretend to be one. I follow the law and I respect it. As for any legal system being archaic and flawed, take a look at the Muslim legal system. Muslims are not a race, they are not a country, they are a form of government. A form of government which allows for so many wrongs but hide behind a religion. Ever talk to a girl who was raped by 5 guys at the age of 14 and she was told she was at fault? Why was she at fault? Because they said she looked at the guys in a sexual way. The Muslim form of government believed the guys and not the victim. Every talk to a guy who is Muslim and he is gay? Do you know what happens to gay people in the Muslim legal system? They are stoned. Thrown off buildings. They are killed. Damn, the muslim legal system is so fair about things. And we in America are told we are messed up with our form of laws? If you want to fix something, go and try to SJW the Muslim people. Oh wait, you guys are working for this form of government and support it.
Of course the school system is flawed. The schools are no longer true houses of education but indoctrination centers. They are not teaching kids, they are teaching them to either be good little followers of the socialist system or, they are not teaching them so they are made to be dependent upon the system to take care of them. If you keep the poor down then, they stay down and they stay dependent. They stay, slaves. Are you following this? The liberal left is deliberately keeping people stupid so they will vote for the left and keep them in office so they can promise to make things better for the little people who they have taught to follow them. They don't care what color you are they just care that you follow them. But, the black community seems to fall into the system and they like how the system lets them do nothing but get paid. So, don't blame the conservatives for the schools problems, blame the politicians and the people who wish to take any form of ethics, morals or religious beliefs out of the schools.
So, if a church wants to pay people money out of guilt then, let them do it. I could care less. However, don't expect me to support any politician who wants to pay anyone, except the Japanese who were interred, for any suffering their ancestors suffered. Everyone has a chance to make a decision in their life, it is called free will, and they should do what is best for them. But, their decision should only affect my life if I allow it too.
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Richard Lee Cornell
Silly. To be extracted by a bunch of radicals who demand that I pay for something I or my ancestors had nothing to do with it. What about the American Indian who got slaughter by the English maybe they should pay up also. Those Indians in Mexico who got slaughter by Spain might have a word about being paid. A revolutionary war was fought for freedom of religion so that we in these States need never again to bow or take a keen to a king A civil war was fought to take man out of slavery and that they never again are told to knell to a white master. Have times change. Them folks (BLM) are bringing back knelling that must make Rev. King mad as Hell..
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Barbara Kay Bradford Fenchak
Why call doing what Christ called us to do reparation? Are the African tribes that sold people originally paying reparations? History is events from long ago. Time for reparation is over. Time to be the future we want to see..Help folks out of poverty with life skills education, tutoring for learning and job hunting skills. Green up the slum for beauty and food. Help tenants live in decent housing via legal help and handyman skills. Do this with unselfish love for your fellow people.
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Eddie E. Smith
I just want to take this opportunity to thank Universal Life Church for giving those of us that don't have a platform like the news media,the Hollywood crowd and others do to give our opinion, give the silent majority a voice to speak our feelings..we are a powerful group that the poles can't measure..The poles were telling everybody that Trump would never be President..But they completely and totally overlooked the silent majority..Obama telling everybody we are not a Christian Country and we must respect that idiot mohammed. Jesus is the way ,the truth and the life and nobody can go to the FATHER except thru Him..America is founded on the promise's of our heavenly FATHER GOD..and may GOD continue to bless America,President Trump and all the people in the world !!!🙏thank you ,Brother Ed
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Chadwick Stephen Carbo
Someone needs to remind them their ancestors sold them. Ask them for Reparations
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David Ciambrone
reparations should NEVER be paid by the government or anyone else. The blacks today were NEVER slaves. Their parents, grandparent and great-grandparent were never slaves. The blacks today should NOT get any reparations, period. Also to those democrats who are morons we have running around BLM is a terrorist organization and needs to be classified as one. BLM has been PROVEN to be a Marxist organization. They lost their respect and original message when the riots started. And incase the blacks missed this: The African people captured and sold their own people into slavery..620,000 white soldiers in the civil war died to free them. This support from the democrats is a stupid effort to push our country toward communism. It is obvious from the remarks by democratic members of congress like the "squad, Biden, and his black VP candidate.
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Val Jester
As long as it isn’t tax payer money, They can do whatever they want with their money. What it tells me is that the church is run by guilty white liberal with a reality deficit.
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Daniel R Garza Sr
Black Lives Matter is a Gang of people that believe they’re entitled to whatever they feel like it they go around burning buildings looting putting people out of jobs getting people hurt getting police officers hurt I guarantee you the first time you are in the car accident or a fire you will be dialing 911 when one of your family members are laying there bleeding to death or can’t breathe you’ll be dialing 911 you’re a selfish group of people .All lives matter it doesn’t matter what race you are every person has a mother or a father or brother or a sister or somebody who loves them so every life does matter don’t be racist I’m just saying all lives Jesus died for all of you all of you not just for one person why because he loves all of you unconditionally enjoy what you have in this life because it’s coming to an end very very soon. my Brothers and sisters this will be over soon May Our Heavenly Father Bless You all and your families
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Michael S Cope
Why? I think paying off people debts vs cash is a better way. Or a four year college paid instead of cash. Giving cash is like handing a bucket to boat owner when there is a hole in their boat.
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ed
You should help as a church but don't label it as reperations because to be honest my ancestors were sold I am not asking for reperations. Rioters and looters and blm should not be helped because of their wickedness and before you say anything we all sin,but the people are like Sodom and gammorah they don't care it is just chaos.help people as a church but don't play into this wicked belief because my ancestors I need money. Your rioting means your not working. Man doesn't work he doesn't eat and I understand that some people can't. But all news reports I see young healthy people. Remember churches you too will be judged. If you actually know God and follow this wicked path you will be judged harder.
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Ronaldo
I have no problem with reparations being paid to those who were wronged, by those who wronged them, but slavery ended over 150 years ago, and no one alive today had any part in it. If reparations are due, what about paying back people who lost out on good careers in the 1960s and early 1970s because they were white? Several companies in my area were hiring apprentice electricians when I turned 18, and in at least one case, I scored second-highest on the aptitude test, but neither I nor the highest scorer were hired because we were white. This happened in many companies, but no one in power declared that these events were unfair or racist. Even if we want to pay the descendants of slaves back, the best way to do it is to find the descendants of all slave owners, both black and white, and have them pay back the descendants of the slaves once they can prove they were owned by those families. My ancestors were either born here as Native Americans, or came over during the famine in Ireland and Scotland, and most settled in free states, not slave. Based on that, should I be required to pay reparations for wrongs my ancestors did not commit? I think our society can become better if we could just set aside any argument or event that happened more than 100 years or four generations ago, whichever comes first. Too many focus on yesterday, or tomorrow, and ignore the here and now. Even though Jesus paid debts He did not owe, would He expect people to pay debts they never incurred? I have found no Scripture supporting that concept.
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Eddie E. Smith
Why do the black race love the Democrat party ?? The very group of slave owners that wanted to keep slavery going..Abe Lincoln, the first Republican President put a stop to slavery..But the blacks can't let go of their massars , the democrats. the democrats are the ku Klux klan, in the sixties fought to keep blacks from voting, and too many other travisties to list..democrats tell the black people what to think how to vote,what to do,how to live on and on etc..the Republicans like leaders and thinkers not weak minded follows.. It's not to late ..Join the free people of America , join the Republican Party..GOD bless us all..👍🤗
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Rev Ned
“Be careful what you ask for, you might get it.” If reparations are paid, then it’s all over. No more affirmative action or special programs because reparations have been made and everything is all made right. Just like winning a civil court damage law suit. Something to think about.
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Gerald Gene Duggins
The United states of America did not put Africans into slavery, in fact it was the United States of America that stopped slavery at least in America. Not only did the Country stop slavery, but have provided assistance and opportunity for the freed slaves in many ways including providing a Country in Africa for them to return to if they wished, it is called Liberia and the capital city is Madison named after an American President. All of the food and housing and free educational opportunities that some of them have taken advantage of demonstrates that the American people have already paid reparations. It is time for the Black community to recognize that and move on with life and lift themselves up using the assistance that is already there. Stop trying to be some kind of freak show and start acting like a civilized human being and they will then be recognized and treated like any other human. I know a lot of Black people who have done just that and they are treated like anyone else and don't feel like they are do some special treatment.
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Eddie E. Smith
The African people captured and sold their own people into slavery..620,000 white soldiers in the civil war died to free them..For thousands of years Africans raided weaker peaceful tribes farmers ,livestock trying to feed their people where raided by lazy tribes and raped and murdered the weaker tribes ,ensalved the younger women ,murdered the old..until the pirates on the barbery coast where willing to pay for slaves..No ,blacks don't deserve nothing from anybody..they have opportunity in the USA to learn a trade ,get a job like everybody else..most of them are lazy , want to steal something somebody else have worked hard to get..May GOD BLESS AMERICA and people all over the world..😀 Ed
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David E. O'Keeffe
Charity, rightfully a function of the Church, has been largely taken over by government in the form of the many welfare programs. In my opinion, providing reparations to one ethnic group at the exclusion of others who could claim the same, i.e. the Irish, Native Americans etc., simply fosters more division and a sense of entitlement. BLM may have had roots based on a justified cause but the movement has since turned into a radical, violent "my way" mob. If a church wants to support a cause, and the members are ok with it, great. If any ethnic group thinks they deserve it, not so great. Getting a handout instead of a hand up does not assist the recipient. I'm reminded of 2 Thesselonians 3.6-112 where Paul the Apostle said. " Thessalonians 3:6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. 2 Thessalonians 3:7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 2 Thessalonians 3:8 nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." 2 Thessalonians 3:11 We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies
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Eddie E. Smith
BLM is a domestic terrorist group..Burning and looting and murdering young children .Floyd was a convict that held a gun to a pregnant womans belly while burglarizing her home threatening to kill her..A 5 year old white boy was shot in the head at point blank range by a 25 year old negro man..Also several other black children have been murdered during their looting stints calling it peaceful protesting..Where was all the News media while this was happening??where are the protestors about this???What a crock!!!They owe white people reparations .Africans captured and sold their own into slavery..620,000 white soldiers died to free them !!!!Floyd had it coming, if you keep on breaking the law it will catch up to you sooner or later..those little Innocent children was just that, INNOCENT! What about the 20,000,000 (twenty million) black babies murdered by abortion ??So, does black lives really matter,to blacks????👎I think not..GOD BLESS AMERICA..
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Walter Jones
It's sad because reparations were paid when slavery ended. The problems blacks have today can be traced back to Democrat policies started in the 1960's, not the 1700's. In 1965 fatherless black families were rare. Black graduation rates were on par with whites and Asian groups. Life expectancy was a bit lower, but not as much as it is now. No, reparations for slavery is not legitimate. Reparations from Democrats for their policies, definitely.
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David Propst
I wish that they wouldn't do that because BLM has been PROVEN to be a Marxist organization (one of the founders admitted it) and the money that is separated out to the different factions within, and partially going to one of those factions called ActBlue, which is actually the Democratic Party and their portion of the money that's distributed to them is being distributed to Democratic Party candidates, thus sneakily getting money by using the BLM movement to get into office and move us more towards Socialism.
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Hawk-A Spiritual Advisor
OPEN YOUR EYES PEOPLE WITH MILDEWED MINDS. No one is responsible for the past. We are all responsible for our actions and our Belief in GOD and CHRIST. Do you not see the writing on the walls. Research everything and every organization carefully. BLM is a racist movement started by ANTIFA a (MARXIST) based organization to cause dissension and distrust among everyone. It also is a smoke screen while they work in the shadows to undermine our government. They have been doing so for a long time. Research, Research, Research. Look at the times of what is really happening. Everyone running around trying to honor the almighty Dollar. Not keeping the Sabbath Holy by Worshipping on the Pagan Day of the Sun. The Seventh Day (Saturday) was commanded by God to be kept. No where in the Bible does God give anyone power to change it to Saturday as it was done. By whom you might ask. The Roman Catholic Church, and I quote: " (ALL THE NAMES WHICH ARE ATTRIBUTED TO, CHRIST IN SCRIPTURE, IMPLYING HIS SUPREMACY OVER THE CHURCH, ARE ALSO ATTRIBUTED TO THE POPE)" Bellamin, "On the Authority of Councils." book 2 chapter 17. Further more in a passage which is included in the (Roman Catholic Canon Law) POPE INNOCENT III declares that the Roman PONTIFF is "THE VICEGERENT UPON EARTH, NOT A MERE MAN, BUT OF VERY GOD." and goes on to explain that because he is the VICEGERENT of Christ, who is "VERY GOD AND VERY MAN". Graven images have been made and brought into Churches under the guise that it will help one to study better. Directly into the church. Commandments have been changed and removed altogether. AGAIN RESEARCH :::: RESEARCH :::: RESEARCH ::::
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John A Carreiro
Hi All, This is all a very cleverly devised plan of Satan to hide from your eyes the real reason for this conflict. It has not thing to do with what your are seeing or hearing, It is Satan rerunning his end of time battle plans. He has been doing it for years. His most aggressive plan, in my view, was the rise of Hitler and his attempt to take over and rule the world by force. He failed and Satan then learned he needed to bring down the church, the governments, all good religion from within. Outside attacks just further steel those being attacked. The long and short of it is as plain as the nose on your face. It is the beginning of the end times. The war between good and evil. No more middle ground to stand on. No more fence to sit on. No more gray area to hid in, and I hope you will forgive my pun here, it will a black or white position. Good vs evil that is the fact of today's world times. Old saying as far as reparations go, Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift and that is why we call it the present. You can not change what has been done no matter what you do. You just move on and try to make sure it never happens again. But in reality are we not all slaves to our federal government who not only gets excise taxes but also income taxes too? Rev J
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Latasha Zelina Dudley
@Gordon D Summers I agree, the church should help everyone. Building homes giving cars and money for those that have need is what the first church did. Started at Antioch.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Stupid questiin. Ridiculous to even ask it and discuss it if you knew Scripture. We are not responsible for the sins of our forefathers.
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Seth Ben-Archer
Look we can all agree what happened 250 years ago in the USA and British Empire was horrific bit it happened. The past is the past period what has that got to do with a bunch of African Americans want compensation for past crimes does not make sense. It is a liberal leftist mentality that I want some thing for nothing it does not help anyone person. Why should hard working blacks and whites give up what they work hard for so some people who claim they deserve what these people have NO WAY! The past is the past we don't know the future so I chose to work hard like God told us to in Genesis so we can save and build a future not to sit at home an bitch about what happened 250 years ago that's just being lazy and wanting something for nothing.
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Tony Steven Minish
No we do not owe them for something that happened hundreds of years ago. These domestic terrorist should not be allowed to tear down cities and make demands. We are not a racist society. Are you aware there are more black millionaires in the U.S then any other country. They need to take responsibility for their culture only 30% grow up with fathers in the home. It is not the white mans fault. Pastor Tony
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Constance L. Townsend
We can't change the past. We can only learn from the past and go forward. That money can be put to good use in helping the families in the poorer sections of the city... the places Jesus would go.
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Daniel James Hockenberry
This is not right I find it offensive as well what happened back then is over the slaves were set free the government has taken care of them for years soon years while they sat generation after generation and lived off the tax payers because they feel that it’s owed to them. I wasn’t a slave owner, my daddy wasn’t a slave owner, nor my grand father, great grand father, nor great great grand father but and I don’t believe that anyone these days should be held accountable. Their own ancestors sold each other into slavery to the French and English who brought them here and started the practice but we today are expected to keep apologizing for people who we don’t know except what history tells us for the few that stood out. Do you think the regular Tom, Dick, or Harry owned slaves? No it was only the rich if a black man lived with a normal person it was because they worked for food and shelter be cause many of white men and their families were indentured servants Who were pretty much slaves to rich whites. A black man walks up to a white man and says wash my feet and apologize for slavery and the white man takes off his shirt throws it on the ground and says pick that up...the black man says now why would I do that? The white man says exactly , I ain’t never owned a slave and you have never been made to pick cotton! The any church is just feeding the fire.
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tuppennyblue
It's bloody ridiculous. As an Englishman, I want reparations from the French for 1066, and the Italians for 55BC. Perhaps the Germans could make a contribution towards rebuilding our cities after WWII as well.
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Christian
CHRIST is the Ultimate restoration and Salvation for all Beings... regardless of species, feathers, fins, skin, # of legs, wings, tails, air bladders, eyes, or even being human... ALL Sin for ALL Time is Forgiven by the Ultimate Power of CHRIST.
Nothing Else Matters.
Just Jesus.
:-)
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Summer Bree Nichols
It nice the church is doing this but like I said before we need to be looking more at the spiritual stuff like the tribulation
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SibylTheHeretic
Lets call it charity, not reparations.
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Jim
The Church can do whatever it wants with their money. However when It comes to reparations I say if any are to be paid it should be paid by the people who first enslaved them which would be themselves. Blacks sold their own the whites did not go to Africa. But I think before them what about the white Christians that were enslaved in the 1400's to 1600's along the barbary cost. What our ancestors did is history. This is all a bunch of BS. get over it and move on.
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Gerald David Norman
How can they get over it when they are denied equal pay, better jobs and affordable housing. In the end you come back around and collect it in the high taxes. What I,m saying is you all make the rules that even you don’t abide by. Look at what you all did the native Americans!!!
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Willie Valient
Amen 🙏
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Janis Carol Sommers
That Africans sold their own is untrue. African tribes were paid to capture their enemies by Portuguese, Dutch and Spanish traders and brought to Birmingham, UK and sold there to work for Royalty and in mines. Not the best history, but American slaves were captured in Africa by Private Pirateers hired by American Businessmen trading in slavery and delivered to the Savannah, GA to be sold to White farmers and plantation owners and businesses. I think you are correct. There have always been slaves and slavery. However, getting over it for Black Americans has not been allowed by white laws. If you believe there is equality how, and Black people just need to let history rest and move on, they cannot, and nor should we. I am not responsible for my fathers debts unless I keep reaping a benefit long after. Try practicing Anti-Racism. Don't do anything in a day that a Black person might get arrested for, fired for, questioned about, killed over. Think. I wish we were past this time because it's gone on too long. I pray we all start the LOVE soon.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That's right, Kirk. White people deserve just as much welfare, and we all deserve much larger, and more frequent stimulus payments, too!
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arawngraalrd
If they don't want to return to the beautiful land of Africa, that they may abide as of us, should be all the needed recompense but, if they can be oaid to move back, thus did the Jews despoil Egypt. I'd suggest any afro-american be tested for the scicle cell gene and, if positive, take a pension back to the old country, where they'd be treated as wealthy foreigners, who can teach English.
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Kirk England
Forty percent of all welfare programs are gear specifically for the black community. These programs cripple the black community. These programs and affirmative action are the only of systemic racism I see.
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Janis Carol Sommers
Interesting. You bring to my attention the goal of the Freedom Riders. To get equality for Blacks. The National laws passed in the late 1960's, Affirmative Action and Fair Housing, we're meant to build a foundation for advancement, a step up for poor people of all colors, later, for women. A form of reparations that should have brought healing but it did not. The the research to implement these laws has been skewed to make people think these programs we're welfare. That was clearly white supremacy at it's finest. The Mother's Study by Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan in the early1960's was exactly that. That research was skewed so to prove his hypothesis that Black families are Matrilineal and Black men non existent in the family dynamics. More White Supremacy at work because it reinforced the racist ideas of the lazy Black man and the oversexed Black woman giving birth to too many children. Now, churches want to give reparations in the same form as government- build housing, pay back rents. That's not reparations. Reparations is Respect. Ask Native People what would constitute reparations. Ask interred Germans and Japanese. Ask any poor white person whose legacy is underemployment, and no educational expectations from family or school that gets them farther than a fast food line but who believed they were better than Blacks because of their skin color. Ask descendants of slaves what would help them. There's not much to return or restore when they were not even allowed personhood. Black Lives Matter very much but work on reparations has a long way to go. I believe Jesus would want people to be happy. I believe people should want that more than anything, too. Love and happiness. If some needs money, give them some, but give them respect and love. Ask for respect and love. We allowed these two things to heal and thrive and it doesn't come from government.
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SibylTheHeretic
Maybe reparations to former slaves only should be paid by the government that promoted slavery; that would be The Confederate States of America. As far as discrimination after the war, those people are called Democrats. Democrats successfully fought all US government efforts to stop discrimination. Now the Democrats perpetuate slavery by telling minorities that they cannot succeed without help (reparations) from the Democratic party.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It makes more sense to me for the descendants of slaves (which doesn't include people like VP Harris) to pay reparations to European Americans for saving them from jungle living, teaching them to be civilized, and eventually setting them free. Indians never complain about not living in teepees anymore, iether, or only having buffolo chips to snack on.
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SibylTheHeretic
BLM is another racist organization as are all (fill in the color) only organizations. For liberals who live vicariously through the failures of others, pandering is their lifestyle. In 1821 the citizens of the US (not the government) bought the freed slaves there own country, Liberia, to do with as they will (lets call it reparations). Liberia is now just another third world s hole. And also remember that the Demoncrats successfully stopped reconstruction after the war . Reparations for people who were never slaves and never even met a slave is stupid. At this point in history there are just as many black racists as white racist. There are just as many black a holes as white a holes. And there are just as may white people who will never succeed in life as black people. I believe that one on the jobs of any church is to make peoples lives better. But not just black people. So give the needy some money to help them out but don't call it reparations, call it charity.
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Rev. Donut
Agreed.
The church should do whatever they want with their money. But don't call it reparations. Call it helping out the neighborhood. Call it the big charity basket.
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Latasha Zelina Dudley
@Gordon D Summers I agree, the church should help everyone. Building homes giving cars and money for those that have need is what the first church did. Started at Antioch.
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Minister Mike
It's not our money so it's not our place to agree or disagree with what that church does with its money. 🤦♂️
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Lionheart
I’m sure Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn et al also agree with you.
🦁❤️
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It's just something to talk about, Mikey. Chill out!
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Willie Valient
Well who do you think the churches get there money , God doesn’t send it to them We The People supports Church’s and the Government.
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Willie Valient
Well who do you think the churches get there money , God doesn’t send it to them We The People supports Church’s and the Government.
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Minister Mike
Those churches didn't get any of my money.
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Latasha Zelina Dudley
Especially when they are helping their community, maybe other churches should for the example 🙌🙌🙌
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Thomas A. Follis
NEWSFLASH MINISTER MIKE; It is your money. You pay taxes, it’s your money too.
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Uhm bud did you even read the article, this has nothing to do with taxes.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
What about the Native Americans. They were here before the Europeans and the African's brought here for slavery. Isn't what the white European-Americans did to them even worse? Their land was stolen fair and square and we killed, starved and used germ warfare in an attempt to exterminate them. Maybe we should offer the same reparations to the blacks as we did the Native Americans. What if "we" gave them free land to live on, (a reservation) and were given a casino? Or we could do what we did to the Japanese after talking their homes, businesses and placing them in concentration camps... $20,000.
Questions is what is fair for the actions of our ancestors? It's what you find in your heart. Who are we to questions what a church does with their money. It's their money. let them do what they want. Be thankful we have religious foredoom in this country.
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Lionheart
At what point do historical injustices, and reparations for them stop? Perhaps never, I don’t know. At least we don’t have slavery anymore in the U.S. even though the mythical god of the Old Testament condones it. What about the historical injustices of Native Americans? Unlike slavery, one could argue that is still going on. Is their voice less than African Americans?
We have Juneteenth, Black History Month, and Martin Luther King Day, all in recognition of black Americans. What days and month do we have that celebrates, or recognizes, Native Americans?
🦁❤️
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flugo
What gross inconsistencies! BLM! Hogwash! In NYC, more black women abort their black babies than birth them! (New York Times) What sheer hypocrisy!
B-abies' L-ives M-atter!
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Charles Richard Bezio
Is this a complicated issue. Our answer is complex as the issue with Self.
We do not believe that we have to pay for what our ancestors did. I believe the past is the past and should not be forgotten. We will be doomed from not learning from our past mistakes.
Black lives do matter. All lives matter. We are a equal in our democracy, injustice against one citizen is an injustice against all citizens.
Putting money aside to assist those who have been discriminated we agree. Putting statues in museums not tearing them down.
Protests yes
Rioting and lutein no
Cash will not change much. We need to change minds by education and support.
Pray for all lives.
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Wanda Lynn Houston
Thank you for your completed and insightful thought on the issue.
It’s nice that some want to give back through money and housing. That’s fine. But changes in our policing, educational and govt systems is paramount. For example, the Electoral College and red lining are examples of systemic racism that is accepted and still go on and it disenfranchises EVERYONE. Why is this allowed? Yes, let’s pray for ALL our lives, but we must recognize what is happening to Black lives right before our eyes on national television. If this continues eventually no lives will matter, truthfully. It happened in Nazi Germany and it’s happening here.....
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The Right Reverend D. Batch
If this Church wants to assist Africans Americans as a group with their Money, then why not? I am against giving individuals Money with no strings attached as this could lead to offensive behavior not inline with Church Values.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I'm totally against giving anyone any of my money. They sound like a bunch of forever guilty, self-defeating, unassertive christians, to me.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
That would depend on how far they're willing to bend over to get it.
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Rev. Laurie G. Cleveland RN
I find this extremely offensive. NY shouldn't be kowtowing to one group of people when my rights are being impacted as well by Gov. Cuomo, who is bucking for a higher spot when he can't even run his own state! It infuriates me that he wants to do this, but can not afford to pay New Yorkers unemployment money because he flatly refuses to fully open the state back up. How can you sing praises when you are wearing a rivulets mask? You can't and music is such an integral part to most churches. How can your parishioners connect on a 1:1 basis when you have to maintain 6 foot distancing? You can't and for some people. Yhe coffee hour afterwards is vitally important. If you have a small church, you cannot meet in a bldg, but meet outdoors and because it's a meeting ov over a certain number of people, you are required to wear masks where the risk is lower! It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. All of this is to force people to get a covid vwccine which has either nanotechnology or a microchip in it so that someone can monitor your every move 24/7. Right out of arecelations. Look, I believe in equality, but if he's going to make reparations to one group of people and the heck with everyone else, that's unethical and just plain wrong.
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Minister Mike
How wonderful to see you've read no further than the headline and only part of that. 🤣🤣🤣
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Tom Thackrey
1) Cuomo is opening up the state, just carefully so we don't kill any more than we have to. 2) I hate masks, too. But, I'd rather wear one and keep my friends and family from getting the virus. BTW the virus affects anyone. If you survive it, many will have long term heart and lung damage. 3) It is inconvenient to adjust your church activities to comply with the guidelines, we do it to save lives and keep people healthy. If you can't sing with a mask on, sing outside or online. Many churches who've not followed the guidelines have been hit by large outbreaks. 4) If you have a smart phone, monitoring your every move is easy. There is no need to include nano tech in a vaccine to gain this ability. I also doubt that that technology exists.
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papawterry
This was supposed to be about reparations. I am tired of constantly hearing about masks over and over. Try to stick to the subject.
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Earl Detwiler
There are NO slaves every country, that had slaves, are not, White people need it for all the violence and Racist attacts against them for being white.. Chaplain
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Daniel Gray
Thats clearly up to them. But before they do maybe they should see how Native Americans have been shafted repeatedly, or how the Buffalo Soldiers almost wiped out the Wolf clan of the Cherokee Nation. The wolf clan was the most powerful clan of the Cherokee Nation and claimed 3000 members. And the Buffalo Soldiers MURDERED all but around 455 members. Men Women and children were shot or cut down. So maybe before the church gives BLM anything....they might want to look at the people who are in line well before BLM or Blacks for reparations.
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Willie Valient
You are CORRECT SIR .
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Earl Detwiler
Gods Son the Christ has done , with slaves He died for the black who killed him, that is the real issues you have discounted Jesus death by your comments, God Matters if you say black lives only you are RACIST.
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Janis Carol Sommers
No one is saying Black lives only.
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Latasha Zelina Dudley
LOVE AND HELP ONE ANOTHER, NOT JUST BLM, GOD LOVE EVERYBODY. PRAY FOR YOUR ENEMIES THAT THEY REPENT 🙏🙏🙏
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Europeans have been fighting wars between each for centuries before the Roman Empire split up Europe. When it fell in 540AD people drew bountaries and from that day fraught each other. Enslaved each other. Boundaries change hands ever generation or so. Slavery ended when Europe was plunger into the Black Death in 1344 AD. After that serfs came into being. My ancestors in Europe were serfs. This country was started by English serfs, street homeless, and misfits. They were sold on the belief that if they served over in the colonies for ten years as serfs they would be given free land. Thousands fled England many died from being over worked and some lived long enough to be land owners. When it came to slavery. They replaced the serfs. It was not just blacks from Africa that were slaves. European families came to this country with their own slaves. My great grand mother was sold in Europe to a family in this country where she worked until the day she died as a slave. Her child was not part of that bargain.