Cross on sheet music
Trey Pearson faced career backlash after coming out as gay. He says there's a "dark cloud" over the Christian music industry.

A Christian singer is condemning the very industry he works in, saying that the Christian music industry - which has an image of being welcoming and wholesome - is anything but for LGBT performers.

Trey Pearson, lead vocalist of Christian rock band Everyday Sunday, who came out as gay in 2016, said in a recent Facebook post that “there is a dark cloud over the Christian music industry,” that many performers are gay but can’t come out due to fear they’ll damage their career, and that Pearson himself has lost friends in the industry due to his own homosexuality.

Unsurprisingly, Pearson himself suffered enormous career backlash when he came out in 2016. Fans dropped him. A Christian music festival dropped him from their lineup. 

If you’re looking at those who’ve made their careers in Christian music, it’s no surprise that very few are members of the LGBT community. Can you still be a Christian musician and be gay?

Personal and Career Repercussions

Pearson’s Facebook post explains the frustrations he's felt as an LGBT artist. “I know there are artists in the Christian music industry that are closeted, and some who are friends of mine. I love them so much,” he says. “And I’m also pissed off.”

In the post, he details how many Christian musicians struggle with same-sex attraction, but can’t or won’t come out for fear of reprisal. He mentions how he lost friends for his own coming out. And he says that if the industry supported closeted musicians coming out, the “whole gross world of the Christian music industry” might actually change. 

Not the First

Pearson is hardly the first Christian artist to face career repercussions for being gay. Singer-songwriter Jennifer Knapp was on a meteoric rise in the late 90s and early 2000s, with two Grammy-nominated albums by her mid-20s. But she stepped away from the industry suddenly and without explanation, and rumors began to swirl that she left because she was gay. And in 2010, she confirmed the rumors were true.

"I'm aware that the evangelical community has problems with divorce and many other facets of their artists, let alone homosexuality," she told CNN.  She mentioned that part of her exile was because she wasn’t ready to come out - and didn’t want to “hoodwink” her audience into buying music from someone living a life they don’t approve of.

Similarly, Christian musician Vicky Beeching also faced backlash for her own coming out, to the point that she had to move back home to the UK from America for fear of her own safety. Even before she came out, her hidden sexuality was literally destroying her. She underwent an exorcism in an attempt to remove her attraction to women, and suffered an autoimmune disease brought on by the stress of suppressing her same-sex attraction.

Uphill Battle

It’s clear that there’s a tough road ahead for LGBT Christian musicians. Any Christian musician who comes out will likely face backlash online from fans and career repercussions within the industry. Hiding your sexuality can cause massive anxiety and personal pain.

It’s quite a pickle for LGBT performers to be in, but there have been strides. Even when Trey Pearson was dropped from the Christian music festival Joshua Fest, the members of Five Iron Frenzy pulled him on stage during their set to perform anyway. And with the internet, the barriers for getting your music out there is lower than it's ever been.

Still, the barriers are real for musicians in the contemporary Christian scene that come out as gay. As Trey Pearson says, “I love seeing the world change, but damn, we have a long way to go.”

What do you think? Are LGBT performers and Christian music compatible? Will things ever change?


  1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

    I wonder how the Songs of Solomon would compare with today’s music. I don’t hear that book in the OT spoken about much by religionists. They prefer to be selective and reference all the nice bits.


  1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

    Acceptance of others is the key.

    1. Jean Bakula's Avatar Jean Bakula

      I agree. Being gay is not a choice. I have a gay son. He struggled for years, not wanting to believe what he knew to be true. People are born gay, not "made" into it. Our society forces them to hide until many don't come out until their 30's, or even later, for fear of reprisal. I am sure there were always gay people. Society just treated them badly in some places. I love my son, being gay doesn't change the beautiful person he is. Jesus accepted everyone.

  1. drfayesnyder's Avatar drfayesnyder

    I am so disappointed in religion across the board. I don't know that there are more ethics amongst leaders and followers than amongst non-believers. The reason I made my home at the ULC in 1969, is because religion needs to solve problems, not make them. Religion need to be charitable, not judgmental. Followers need to be humble, not arrogant and judgmental.

    I like to think that the ULC makes room for minorities of all kinds, as well as those who are so stuck in a category that they cannot be cherished and defended from meanness and rejection. Shame on relations that protect bad behavior as if it were righteous. I think Jesus would be appalled. Dr. Faye

    1. Alexander Clarke's Avatar Alexander Clarke

      Your response is exactly why at age 14 I left religion behind. My God does not need a building or money. Religions create far more problems than they solve.

      1. Ronnie Lee Clayton's Avatar Ronnie Lee Clayton

        Alexander, would you please clarify. Is it drfayesnyder's response and others like it or the sentiment in drfayesnyder's as to why you left the church? Are you agreeing or disagreeing with drfayesnyder?

  1. Johnny Mac 's Avatar Johnny Mac

    If GOD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for their sinfulness I can no more support LGBT. I was a victim of sexual abuse as a child by a relative and was approached repeatedly while serving time at Ft Leavenworth! My Church will not support it either! Repent and know that only one place will accept you if you do not turn back to the LORD GOD! Father forgive them for they know not what they do! Amen


    1. Ren's Avatar Ren

      The sin of sodom had nothing to do with sex... Ezek 16:49- 50

      1. Woodrow's Avatar Woodrow

        REALLY? No. 16:1 Now Korah son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, with Dathan and Abiram sons of Eliab, and On son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men,

        2 And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the Israelites, 250 princes or leaders of the congregation called to the assembly, men well known and of distinction.

        3 And they gathered together against Moses and Aaron, and said to them, [Enough of you!] You take too much upon yourselves, seeing that all the congregation is holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them. Why then do you lift yourselves up above the assembly of the Lord?

        21 Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment.

        22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin and will You be angry with all the congregation?

        23 And the Lord said to Moses,

        24 Say to the congregation, Get away from around the tents of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram.

        25 Then Moses rose up and went to Dathan and Abiram, and the elders of Israel followed him.

        26 And he said to the congregation, Depart, I pray you, from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing of theirs, lest you be consumed in all their sins.

        27 So they got away from around the tents of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram. And Dathan and Abiram came out and stood in the door of their tents with their wives, and their sons, and their little ones.

        28 And Moses said, By this you shall know that the Lord has sent me to do all these works, for I do not act of my own accord:

        29 If these men die the common death of all men or if [only] what happens to everyone happens to them, then the Lord has not sent me.

        30 But if the Lord causes a new thing [to happen], and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them up, with all that belongs to them, and they go down alive into Sheol (the place of the dead), then you shall understand that these men have provoked (spurned, despised) the Lord!

        31 As soon as he stopped speaking, the ground under the offenders split apart

        32 And the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them and their households and [Korah and] all [his] men and all their possessions.

        33 They and all that belonged to them went down alive into Sheol (the place of the dead); and the earth closed upon them, and they perished from among the assembly.

        34 And all Israel who were round about them fled at their cry, for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also.

        35 And fire came forth from the Lord and devoured the 250 men who offered the incense.

        36 And the Lord said to Moses,

        37 Speak to Eleazar son of Aaron, the priest, that he take up the censers out of the burning and scatter the fire at a distance. For the censers are hallowed—

        38 The censers of these men who have sinned against themselves and at the cost of their own lives. Let the censers be made into hammered plates for a covering of the altar [of burnt offering], for they were used in offering before the Lord and therefore they are sacred. They shall be a sign [of warning] to the Israelites.

        It's a sin against themselves. They know what they do and in themselves they resent it.

    2. Aron Mark Doherty's Avatar Aron Mark Doherty

      I assume the person that abused you as a child was a man, Pedophiles tend to be men but not always. Child abuse is a tragedy in every sense, but to use your own logic, most pedophiles are men that abuse young girls so it would be normal to consider you yourself as a pedophile to be condemned to hell. That is exactly what you do when you use your abuse to judge a whole community. Grow a spine, stop being weak and own your bigotry!

    3. SibylTheHeretic's Avatar SibylTheHeretic

      God was pretty clear about homosexuality, he said "don't do it". And also the messages in Christian music are good but the music sounds bad.

      1. Ren's Avatar Ren

        He also said women should be silent outside the home...

        1. Woodrow's Avatar Woodrow


          1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

            Acronyms are good up to a point, except when you start putting up a bunch letters, that have no clear meaning to anyone else but yourself.

        2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

          Amen, brother!

  1. Christian's Avatar Christian

    Salvation empowers your spouse and children, your grand children and great grand children, multiple generations of
    Life and Success !

    May ALL souls be Blessed, Go Forth, Be Fruitful & Multiply - repopulating the many Worlds of our Milky Way Galaxy and far, far beyond ! The UNIVERSE is our playground !

    SPACE ! It sure is wonderfully big - and teaming with Life ! THE Future is waiting for you ! Yay!

    You can Change the World !
    Grace and Blessing, Life and Salvation to all who fill their heart with the Creator's Love and Compassion ! :-)

  1. Martha Knight's Avatar Martha Knight

    Jesus was not said to have said anything about sexual orientation. At that time sexual behavior was discussed, but the concept of sexual orientation was not known. Some Romans and Greeks and other Gentiles were known to accept men using boys or other males, often enslaved persons, for sex, because they could not become pregnant as female prostitutes or mistresses might. Christian leaders generally opposed all forms of exploitation, including the use of prostitutes, although some Gentile converts to Christianity already had plural marriages and those probably continued. It seems highly unlikely that Jesus would have considered same sex attraction a serious danger to spiritual health or covenant with God, and not mentioned it.

    1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      Obviously, Jesus was in an openly gay relationship with his apostles, who left their wives to be with him. He was especially close to St.Judas, who only turned him in after Jesus left him for Peter, just because Peters had a big one, and Judas couldn't compete with that.

      1. SibylTheHeretic's Avatar SibylTheHeretic

        This is offensive. Please remove.

    2. flugo's Avatar flugo

      You must have forgotten that Jesus said that He and His Father are 'one! He, also, said 'if you've seen me, you've seen the Father'. The Bible is full of accounts of the Father and Son in complete unity, of purpose, righteousness and focus.

      NO where in the Scriptures do they commend homosexuality. But, the Father finds it repugnant, and 'abomination'! Those with a sense of decency, morals and wisdom also find the LGBTQxyz lifestyle degrading.

      God's original design in the Genesis creation was a man and woman relationship. Any deviation from God's marriage blueprint is 'deviancy', plain and simple!

      1. Ren's Avatar Ren

        You know what else God declared an abomination? Eating shellfish (shrimp, clams,oysters, lobster, crab, etc.)

        1. Woodrow's Avatar Woodrow

          not true

          1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

            Christian Practice Here are a few examples of Old Testament laws that Christians generally do not observe: Prohibited foods Pork (Leviticus 11:7) Certain other animals (Leviticus 11:4-6) Shellfish (Leviticus 11:10) Certain birds (Leviticus 11:13-19) Certain insects (Leviticus 11:20-23) Meat still containing blood (Leviticus 17:12) Circumcision required for males on eighth day (Leviticus 12:1-3) The death penalty for: Attacking or cursing a parent (Exodus 21:15,17) Disobedience to parents (Deuteronomy 21:18-21) Failure to confine a dangerous animal, resulting in death (Exodus 21:28-29) Sex with an animal (Exodus 22:19, Leviticus 20:16) Doing work on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:14, 35:2, Numbers 15:32-36) Incest (Leviticus 18:6-18, 20:11-12,14,17,19-21) Adultery (Leviticus 20:10; Deuteronomy 22:22) Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:14,16, 23) False prophecy (Deuteronomy 18:20) False claim of a woman's virginity at time of marriage (Deuteronomy 22:13-21) Sex between a woman pledged to be married and a man other than her betrothed (Deuteronomy 22:23-24) Feast day observances required: Feast of Lots (Purim) (Esther 9:28) Passover (Pesach) (Deuteronomy 16:1-8) Feast of Weeks or Pentecost (Shavuot) (Leviticus 23:15-21) Feast of Trumpets or New Year Festival (Rosh Hashanah) (Leviticus 23:23-25) Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) (Leviticus 16:29-32) Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) (Leviticus 23:39-43) Saturday (seventh day) Sabbath observance (Exodus 20:8-11, Exodus 35:1-3) Animal sacrifices For sin (Leviticus 4:27-35) For Passover (Exodus 12:3-11)

            1. Kevin Singleton's Avatar Kevin Singleton

              So much misunderstanding of scripture.

              Matthew 5:17

              "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

        2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

          I spit out all my oysters.

    3. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      Seems you have fallen into the trap from the LGBT community when they lie and say Jesus never said anything against homosexuality, All one need do is read the book of Peter and you will see that Jesus did indeed condemn Homosexuality.

      1. Ren's Avatar Ren

        Jesus didn't write 2Pt .. or any of the books of Scripture... The ONLY writing Jesus ever did was in the dirt.

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Since peter knew him far better then you ever will, how are you going to refute Peter?

      2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        Maybe he was suffering from internalized homophobia.

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Typical. When you have nothing to go on or no way to challenge anything you fall back on name calling. You do know that this shows a lack of intelligence, right?

          1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

            Being judgmental and critical of others doesn't show superior intelligence iether, Daniel child.

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              Nope but when your judgement is based on fact it does.

      3. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        I almost never read the comments of some of our fellow Ministers, which is why I don't respond when they seek to belittle me. There are those agitaters among us who I usually seek to ignore. Hopefully their parents will someday find out what they've been writing on here, and properly discipline them.

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          in your case though you deserve this and more.

  1. Minister Mike's Avatar Minister Mike

    Jesus said the second greatest commandment was to love your neighbor as love yourself.

    Jesus said nothing about sexual orientation (or lack thereof).

    1. SibylTheHeretic's Avatar SibylTheHeretic

      Love and sex are different things.

      1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        And which one do you prefer, Sibyl?

  1. Woodrow's Avatar Woodrow

    Apparently God the Father has already called FOUL:

    He said it!!

    God’s Anger at Sin

    18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness.[i] 19 They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

    21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. 23 And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.

    24 So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. 25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen. 26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

    28 Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. 29 Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30 They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. 31 They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. 32 They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.

    1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      “Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.” (Matthew 19:11-12)

      Here Jesus identifies three classes of men who should not marry women. Taking his categories in reverse order, first, there are those who have made themselves “eunuchs” for the kingdom of heaven, i.e., those who foreswear marriage to better serve God. Second, he mentions those who have been “made eunuchs by others,” an apparent reference to castrated males. But Jesus mentions a third category — eunuchs who were born that way. Some might argue that Jesus was referring to males born without testicles, but this would be extremely rare. Moreover, this interpretation ignores how the term “born eunuchs” was used in other literature of the time.

      In the ancient world, including ancient Jewish culture (as reflected in the Talmud), “natural” or “born” eunuchs were not associated with missing testicles. Rather, they were associated with stereotypically effeminate characteristics and behavior (just like modern gay men), and were thought by Rabbi Eliezer to be subject to “cure” (just like modern gays). Moreover, as we have also seen, eunuchs were commonly associated with homosexual desire. (For a complete discussion of the term "born eunuch" and the connection with homosexuality, see The Early Church Welcomed a Gay Man here: As a reasonably informed person of his time, Jesus would have been aware of this common view of eunuchs. Yet he very matter-of-factly asserts that some people are simply born that way. The implication of his statement is profound — God created gay people the way they are! Jesus says so.

      Unlike Rabbi Eliezer, Jesus feels no need to “cure” these born eunuchs. He speaks no words of condemnation. Rather he lists people born gay alongside another honored class (eunuchs for the kingdom), and accepts them as a natural part of God’s creation order.

      1. SibylTheHeretic's Avatar SibylTheHeretic

        Eunuchs were not effeminate they were celibate.

        1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

          Get it through your head once and for all, homosexuals been around as long a man has walk the earth and homosexuals will always be around as long as human shell exist. NOTHING you can say or do will ever change that.

        2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

          What's your point, Sibyl? I've known a lot of gay men who weren't effiminate , and some were even celibate. But what difference does any of that make? People are people, it's plain to see, to those of us who arent prejudiced. Christian rockers should sell their souls to rock-'n'-roll, and forget they were ever evil christians. Christianity totally sucks! Long live rock!!! And we accept all kinds.

          1. SibylTheHeretic's Avatar SibylTheHeretic

            Eunuchs were not homosexuals. That is a lie told to legitimize the sodomites. And you aren't prejudiced to say something is wrong. God said that sodomy is wrong.

            1. Ren's Avatar Ren

              The "sin of sodom" had NOTHING to do with sex .... Ezek 16:49- 50

            2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

              My God says your God is wrong, and not only is the bible wrong, but it's only good for rolling papers!

            3. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

              Homosexuals don't only engage in sodomy, and some of them aren't into that sex act at all. Have you ever heard of felatio. I can't recall that word ever having been mentioned in the bible at all. Besides that, homosexuality is about members of the same gender being attracted to eachother, and feeling romantic affection for eachother, and doesn't have anything to do with having sex at all. Some men and women have been known to have sex with members of their own gender without being gay. It happens in prisons all the time. And I don't think the men of Sodom and Gamorrah were homosexuals iether, just because they screwed some angels, who had the power to stop them, if they didn't enjoy it.

              1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

                They will have to condemn to eternal damnation any heterosexual that engage in "sodomy" as well.

                I really dislike when they use "sodomy" since in reality the word does not apply.

  1. The Rev. William C, Millhouse's Avatar The Rev. William C, Millhouse

    Love is love.

    1. SibylTheHeretic's Avatar SibylTheHeretic

      Sex and love are different things.

      1. Mya-Lia Sharizyn's Avatar Mya-Lia Sharizyn

        Physical intimacy is an expression in action of the relationship and feelings between participants. Physical acts performed without that are not intimate acts, but are physical performances and the fulfillment of bodily functions.

  1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

    And big deal. This is nothing more then the LBGT community trying to worm their way in. This guy claims he knows a bunch of homosexual christian singers, yet wont even name one. SI can say the moon is made of green cheese but that does not make it fact. Same thing here. If this upsets the LBGT community this much then why dont they start their own christian music scene and then they can do what they want. They wont because then they would have nothing to cry about when it fails. Same thing as KD Lang. She was a major record star and was selling records by the millions as well as sold out concerts. It was well known in the Country music scene that she was gay and it didnt matter....right up until she got too big for her britches and demanded that she be put ahead of everyone else and be nominated and accepted to the Opry, a right reserved for a select few men AND women. When that didnt work then she tried shaming them claiming that they wouldnt do this because she was gay. That was the last straw and where is she now? back in Canada and no longer in the music business. And this Everyday Sunday group? the last album they had was in 2013, seven YEARS ago and nobody has heard a peep out of them since. The only reason this guy is making a fuss right now is that he is flat broke even his own former bandmates wont go back on stage with him. Its sad when someone thinks that they can do this to make money.

    1. Ren's Avatar Ren

      Ray Boltz.

      1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

        So? And where is he now? Has he made the same whines as this guy has? Nope. And I still have yet to hear his music on a christian radio station. Try again

  1. Mya-Lia Sharizyn's Avatar Mya-Lia Sharizyn

    If a religion states that a person must be a specific way, and refrain from specific things in order to be a part of that religion, than how is it that anyone who doesn't live that way would be upset about not being welcomed by the people who are against them?

    Jesus said that any who believe in him are welcome, but then they have to change, did he not? If a person does not change after entering that house, therefore, why would they protest that the keepers of the house should change? Why not either start their own church, follow a different religion, or simply live spiritually in their freedom from the bonds of every religious organization?

    1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      Really where in the bible does it say that "If a religion states that a person must be a specific way, and refrain from specific things in order to be a part of that religion,"....."not being welcomed by the people who are against them?". It seem to me it not the bible, but YOU who do NOT welcome them and it YOU "who are against them".

      1. Mya-Lia Sharizyn's Avatar Mya-Lia Sharizyn

        Yeah I'm pretty much against organized religion and anything that dictates what anybody can and can't do to be on the big guys good side, that's for sure

    2. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      What did Jesus say about not judging others?

      The famous quote “judge not” I referenced at the beginning of this devotional comes from one of Jesus’ teachings in the Bible in a book called The Gospel of Matthew. So what I’d like to do is read through His teaching line by line and then we’ll decide exactly what Jesus said and how it should apply to us today.

      Matthew 7:1-2 Jesus says, “Judge not, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”

      In the first 2 sentences Jesus gives a very clear statement…“judge not” and then He gives a clear reason why “or you too will be judged...” Jesus’ command to not judge others is given as a motivation for us to avoid judgment ourselves. It’s important however for us not to stop the discussion there because Jesus didn’t. Let’s listen to the illustration Jesus used to clarify even further what He meant when He said “Judge not.” Matthew 7:3-5 “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”

      So, what is Jesus teaching against? The mere act of judging others? No. Jesus didn’t teach against judging. He taught against a specific kind of judging. The type of judging he spoke against was a blind, ignorant, hypocritical, self-righteous judging that overlooks one’s own faults, failures and sins and only sees faults, failures and sins in other people. And the picture He uses is supposed to be kind of funny. There’s two guys in a wood shop…one guy looks at the other guy and says hey you’ve got some sawdust in your eye…all the while the dude’s got a 2x4 sticking out of his eye.

      The issue Jesus is going after is the pride that was in the people’s hearts which made it easy for them to see other people’s faults, but be blinded to their own. And notice what Jesus called them “you hypocrite.” Now, what’s a hypocrite? Someone who pretends to be something they aren’t. In the 1st century you usually only had one or two play actors would use different masks to play in different roles. They’d pretend to be something they weren’t. Here Jesus is going after people who wear a mask of piety over a heart that was judgmental, critical, and self-righteous toward others.

      Jesus wasn’t telling people not to judge. He was telling people not to be a hypocrite when you judge. He’d been speaking to a crowd about what true righteousness is. He’d been talking about issues of the heart and about what makes a person pleasing before God. He was teaching against people having a critical, condemning, self-righteous, judgmental attitude toward other people. It was what some people might call social or spiritual B.O. That pompous posture of looking down on others because you’ve got it all together and they certainly don’t. That kind of judgmentalism was found in the hearts of many of the religious leaders of Jesus’ day and among the crowd who was listening. And if we’re honest, it’s an attitude that’s present in our own hearts.

      If we’re honest, we find ourselves being critical people by nature. We tend to think that we see things rightly and that others are wrong. We tend to think that our reasonings and our perspectives are at least just a little better than people we disagree with. We seem to be quick to find fault and condemn people.

  1. SibylTheHeretic's Avatar SibylTheHeretic

    Carl Bernard Elfstrom is trolling the forums. He adds nothing to the conversation except offensive gossip. Please have the admins ban him from the forums.

    1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`


      Stop acting like a religious tyrant and start respecting other peoples rights!

      The Universal Life Church’s Stance The Universal Life Church has long championed the cause of religious freedom, but it has also stalwartly admonished against the folly of religious tyranny. True religious freedom means the right to exercise your religion in peace and harmony while also respecting the freedoms of others. It does not mean steamrolling over their freedoms; it does not mean controlling every aspect of their lives; and it is not a free pass to do whatever you want on the grounds of personal faith. Religious freedom ends when it seeks dominion over the basic freedoms of others.

    2. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      So I assume you see your comment about Carl as being constructive to this conversation? Everyone has a viewpoint, some serious, some humorous.


      1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

        Lionheart is right even if we don't see eye to eye on everything or have different view points.

      2. SibylTheHeretic's Avatar SibylTheHeretic

        So how do Carls penis jokes add to the conversation?

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          Do you think he’s being too much of a misogynist only referencing male genitalia? Just asking for a friend. 🤪


        2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

          I bet you wish you had one, don't you Sibyl?

      3. SibylTheHeretic's Avatar SibylTheHeretic

        Apparently I was censored. Very funny admins. So how do Carls weener jokes add to the conversation?

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          These are only discussions to get people’s points of view. Levity can often help people come back down to earth, especially when the comments are becoming vindictive. However, Carl has offered lots to these discussions over the years, as do we all.


  1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

    I only write these beautiful, awesome, inspirational comments. I'm not to blame for what gets posted on this blog. The good employees of the ULC take care of that. And they don't post all of our comments. This isn't a free for all. They only post the ones they think are appropriate.

  1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

    I only write these beautiful, awesome, inspirational comments. I'm not to blame for what gets posted on this blog. The good employees of the ULC take care of that. And they don't post all of our comments. This isn't a free for all. They only post the ones they think are appropriate.

  1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

    Sibyl, I've been an active contributor on this blog for well over two years. I'm 57 years old, and my oldest living relative will be 100 next month. I spent 36 years arguing with the best of the best in A.A. and N.A. meetings. There's not a chance of any minister on this blog saying anything that's going to make me go away. And there's a very good chance that I'm going to be ministering on this blog for very many years to come. And sometimes, we will be discussing weinies.

  1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

    I've gotten much better at ministering to others on this blog. They don't delete nearly as many of my comments as they used to. Someday it might even lead me to opening my own church. Imagine that!

    1. Woodrow's Avatar Woodrow

      I'll help you open it.

  1. Angelique D. Chelton's Avatar Angelique D. Chelton

    One of the things I find fascinating is what happens when we look at gay folks in the light of what scripture actually says in its original language. Some of us do believe that scripture- as originally written- is God inspired.

    One thing we find is that the words used for homosexual (a word that NEVER appears in the Bible) are filtered in English- meaning a translator looked at a word in Hebrew or Greek and decided that word meant homosexual. But the Bible doesn't actually say it. Often some other word like "man bedder" is the literal term used and we have to look at the context to understand how that word should be translated. We may even need to understand something about how the word was oriented when the word was used to understand the MEANING.

    Then, we go on to all the arguments about Sodom which- according to Scripture- was about "inhospitality" to strangers. The people of Sodom were NEVER condemned in Scripture for male on male lust- they were condemned for treating the vulnerable badly.

    There are many, MANY of us Bible-honoring Christians who believe our holy Word has been misinterpreted through a lense of homophobia reflecting something that isn't actually in the Bible.

    I recommend reading "Unclobber" for more on this topic.

    1. flugo's Avatar flugo

      You are so typical of you Bible 'experts! You quote Ezekiel 16;49 and cry 'lack of hospitality' for God's anger at Sodom. Read :50! Why did God (destroy) 'take them away'? They committed abomination, were haughty. Like the abomination in Leviticus 18:22.(sodomy)

      Sodom DID showed hospitality. Lot was at the gate, where visitors were greeted, He begged the visitors to come to his home, where he prepared a feast for them (Genesis 19:1-3 Inhospitable?!

      Townspeople wanted to 'know' (either being hospitable to, or having sex with) the visitors :5, which Lot called 'wicked'. : 7. Early in Genesis, Adam 'knew' Eve and she conceived..

      Sodomy is men using the anus as an entrance, which was designed for mankind as an exit. .It's contrary to God's design, and is sin.

  1. DB Lowery's Avatar DB Lowery

    Agree. I think there has a bit to much procreation, way to many homeless, fostered, abused. Some people do not want children. I also believe in sterilization of both genders, if repeated behavior. I sincerely deeply love our Lord. I sincerely detest what the `leaders of the world are fake prophets.

  1. Constance L. Townsend's Avatar Constance L. Townsend

    Personally, I feel that the "church" and no one else has the right to judge another. God is Love... God has no gender. God is love and only love. Love simply IS and when we love, we love the inside... the God part... of a person and so grow to love the whole. We lose sight of what is most important when we reduce love to the sexual act. People are who they are and we should love and accept them as God loves and accepts them.Who are we to judge?

  1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

    DB, that's ànother good reason why even us Republicans need to vote for Biden.

  1. John R's Avatar John R

    The rightwing conservatives are obviously the hypocrites damned for their using Christ as their camouflage. They ignore Jesus' crystal clear instructions about not judging others and loving their neighbor, and go digging in the dead letters for old tribal customs the Jews themselves stopped writing about in the rest of the Old Testament ... and then they go to the other end, coughing up secular interpretations by the political Paulists who saw worldly power in pretended conversion.

    So much ugliness and hatred from the religionists of the rightwing. They condemn everything but war, hate, and violence. They've abandoned the Gospels to go whoring after the mammon-worshipping Republican party and have instead replaced the New Testament with the Old in their churches to be the hateful materialists they choose to be. The tax-exempt american church is fallen and they are the damned who killed it: now they are the ones helping to heat up the world for their biblical Satanic hellworld by refusing to move forward into reality. Always pointing fingers, always blaming and finding fault with others.

    I'm only human, so I can't say when time is up for seeing the Light ... but in my weakness I have given up on those evil human beasts who call themselves "Christian" but have never been reborn into Spirit but wallow in materialism and revel in doom. I used to believe everyone would find God, but after a lifetime watching the poisonous acts of conservative rightwing "christians" I really don't know what I believe for them. But I have been a witness of their evil and pray for deliverance of this world from their sickness.

    I hope that wasn't too negative. But there is another point of view, rightwingers: one more based in the Bible and the reality of modern times than yours is. Repent if you can. I want to be able to love you, as I'm instructed to. Please help me do that, it's not easy.

  1. Adam Paul Shivers's Avatar Adam Paul Shivers

    We're talking about a community (Christian) that would find it inappropriate if I speak about what goes on in the bedroom (I am straight and married). I just wanted to point that out. The very idea that a gay person is supported requires knowing something about what they do in the bedroom. I cannot fathom sharing what makes my bedroom experience different (publicly), expecting that everyone know (whether or not they participate in this specific act), and expect to have much of a career in an industry (Christian music) that cavalierly sharing such info is considered inappropriate. Reminder: What I describe above doesn't even touch on homosexuality. In a professional position, for instance, I keep the fact that I pick my nose in the bathroom under wraps (with discretion) because eventually they would stop choosing me to give presentations, representing their company, if I felt I needed to share my bathroom experiences. Especially if I felt they needed to be known and accepted by all and made my agenda apparent. In simpler terms... We are expected to be considered a bigot if we don't agree with information we never asked for (in many circumstances). If you believe you are excepted by God then you shouldn't need everyone's approval. You are loved and such actions are between you and Him.

    1. Kat Strid's Avatar Kat Strid

      I just don't understand white people especially Christian people can accept everybody for who they are and understand that God put us here to be Who We Are that you have to remember the 10 commandments we're done a long long time ago and also a lot of the stuff people believe comes from very long time ago not today people are trying to step up and say hey who are you to tell me who I can and can't love just because you don't think God loves me doesn't mean anything because God loves all of us all colors all nationalities and I'll personalities remember that last one all personalities all people no matter what we will be judged by him why do you think it's okay for you to judge someone else or not like them or not be kind to them are you God no you're not remember that and that what would Jesus do he would hug every person and say I love you and God has a place for you in his home remember that Love to you all Minister Kat

      1. Woodrow's Avatar Woodrow

        Whatever race one belongs, if you get cut it"s all pink on the inside and we all bleed red. BYITNOJ

    2. John R's Avatar John R

      Adam, that's hilarious. Upset about bedroom activities being broadcast to the world? Really?

      EVERY movie or teevee show has a heterosexual relationship shoved into it, whether it's a mystery, tragedy, comedy, or drama ... if it's based on a true story, some hetero angle will be teased forth or invented and crammed in somehow. Corporate music has been reduced to one endless retelling of some form of sexual yearning by heterosexuals; every commercial product from cars to stereo equipment to soap is targeted at hetero titillation to move product.

      Meanwhile, gay people can be fired for their natural orientation. Gay bashing is common enough to have its own crime category. AIDS was stigmatized instead of investing in viral technology (which the world is paying for now). Careers being cancelled for the crime of loving other gay people has been the norm in this culture, not the exception. This isn't because gay people are having sex in your face. Gays exist and it's YOUR problem if you can't keep your mind out of their private bedroom.

      I wonder at people like you who insist being gay is all about sex. I assume your wedding band isn't meant as an announcement to the world you have a woman in life-long bondage to use for sex anytime you'd like.

  1. Paul Donaldson's Avatar Paul Donaldson

    Jesus never left specific instructions All writings were done by men after Jesus left town.

  1. Richard Lee Cornell's Avatar Richard Lee Cornell

    Gay people do not have children. Without children religion will not grow. Just ask the Shakers who died out when they did not grow.

    1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      I've known several gay men who have had children with women. Being gay doesn't mean they have to only have sex, or even only love other men. There are as many forms of homosexuality and bi-sexuality as there are people who identify as such. A very good friend of mine who was gay, and even owned a very successful gay bar, after retiring from being a leutinant-colonel from the U.S. Army, and was previously married to a woman for many years who he was still friends with, and they had children and grand children who he never stopped having a close relationship with. And, I can give numerous other examples

    2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      The world will never be primarily gay, and we will never become extinct by lack of men and women having sex with eachother.

  1. Christine Tenpas's Avatar Christine Tenpas

    I think that if a gay musician faces the courage and pushes through their fears, they indeed, would lose many fans who sit on the far right. But imagine the fans they would gain?? If gay Christians, who long for a place to worship next to people like themselves, found that likeness not just in the people next to them, but in the people leading and guiding them, the newly out gay Christian musicians would be doing exactly what they feel led to do- bring people into closer communion with Christ.

  1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

    And it doesn't even matter if Jesus and his twelve apostles were in a gay relationship with eachother. People are people!

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