A controversial new documentary makes a shocking claim that, if true, could shake the bedrock of Christianity and western culture.
The film, titled "1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture", claims that the word “homosexual” is only listed as a sin in the Bible because of a mistranslation that happened 76 years ago.
If accurate, it could mean that decades of Christian teachings about the evils of homosexuality resulted from a bad translation.
Is it possible that the countless Christian attacks on the LGBTQ community, the denial of their right to marry, and the persistent homophobia faced by queer folks all stem from a human error three-quarters of a century ago?
A Translation Investigation
As the film explains, the word “homosexual” didn’t appear in the Bible until 1946, when a committee gathered to update the English language version of the text from Greek.
It was during this translation – for the Revised Standard Version (RSV) – that committee made a critical error that would become the launching pad for decades of faith-fueled homophobia, the documentary claims.
The filmmakers argue that the Greek word “arsenokoitai”, a word invented by the Apostle Paul, was mistranslated as “homosexual,” when it would more accurately refer to child sex abusers. That simple error, they say, resulted in a “sacred weapon” for Christians to use as a cudgel against the LGBTQ community: 1 Corinthians 6:9, which states which types of people cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Future translations and editions of the Bible have used the word “homosexual” in other passages as well, but all of those references stem from this original mistranslation.
“We’re talking about a word, a medical term that has a connotation of a group of people that have an orientation, as opposed to what the original Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic texts are referring to, which is an aggressor, somebody who was an abuser—somebody who has abused someone else, and there is a victim on the other side,” explains the film’s director, Sharon Roggio. “It’s a very different connotation.”
How Did Nobody Catch the Error?
You might be thinking: how did this rather important translation go unnoticed?
Well, it did, but not until years later, when a 21-year-old seminary student spotted the inconsistency. He then penned a letter to the committee to suggest that it had seriously erred in choosing the word “homosexual” in the translation.
The committee even sought to correct its original error, but by then it was too late; by the 1970s, the belief that homosexuality was sinful had become ubiquitous in Christian circles.
What followed is well documented: the rise of the moral majority and the demonization of gay people by many evangelical Christians in the 1980s. A wave of ‘gay panic’ brought on by the AIDS crisis solidified the gay community as an "unbiblical" group. By then, there was no turning back.
The director of the film insists that this film does not exist to bash Christians. She says that it exists to point out bad theology, and to (hopefully) convince open-minded Christians that their holy text isn’t as anti-gay as they’ve been led to believe.
Even still, not everyone’s buying it. Despite the fact that the film hasn’t even been released yet, there’s already a book out seeking to debunk the film’s thesis, and the director and crew have been subject to countless attacks on social media from evangelical Christians who say that, actually, the filmmakers are the ones with the bad theology.
One critic even compared it unfavorably to the conspiracy-laden novel ‘The DaVinci Code.'
Considering the film hasn’t even been released yet, this is unlikely to be the last time we hear about this groundbreaking claim.
What is your reaction? Is it possible that the source of Christian homophobia comes down to a simple translation error?
The oldest version of the Bible in the world is the Sinai Bible, housed in the British Museum.
There are over 14,800 differences between this Bible and the standard King James version. Just how much proof do we need that the word of God is nothing but the word of men? 🤷🏼
True. But don't forget that spirituality is what really matters and depends on no book published by men.
Hi Lori, may I ask, how does one know that spirituality is what really matters, and what exactly is “spirituality”? Is your comment a type of indoctrinated statement with little, to no, true meaning or understanding?
I am not sure if that was a real question or not as your mind seems to be made up. That is ok though. I can only answer for myself. To me it is a sense of connection beyond religion. It is where my sense of peace of mind comes from. A sense of innate right and wrong come from knowing guide me from it. A direct connection to God as one of his children. It is possible to be religious and spiritual at the same time for some, sadly too many have forgotten how to do that. I trust how at peace and comfortable in my own skin I feel. I feel no indoctrination or any other such thing. The teachings I follow say from the get go to take what you want and forget the rest. I could change my mind tomorrow if I chose but I can't imagine myself ever doing so. Not when I have never felt so connected to Him and His other side so much. I have no idea if that answers what you meant or not, but wish you well in any case.
Thank you for taking the time to respond, Lori-Ann. I actually do understand where you are coming from, and what you believe to be true. I post my questions to elicit thought from others. There was a time in my life that I would answer exactly as you did. I would also make reference. to the "Holy Spirit" quite often, especially from the pulpit. As time moved on, I found I was saying things because they had been said to me and I was expected to say the same things to others. When I finally started questioning things I was saying I came to realize that I was attributing "nice feelings" to the Holy Spirit, because I didn't know how else to account for my feelings. Then I found others, of other religions, not Christian, had similar "feelings" about their faith. Mmmm 🤔. Applying logic, and critical thought, I moved on from how I had been raised. I'm just as happy....if not more so. 🤗
Thank you for your reply.
You are welcome and thank you for a respectful reply yourself. I try to just speak for myself. I respect others right to their beliefs so am never trying to influence anyone else's. I figure they may read and then make up their own mind. But all too many times those with opposite beliefs reply in hostile ways, calling me names, etc. That has always amazed me. I have no issues with their different beliefs at all. Yet they are quick to judge me. Now I am always happy to have respectful engagement with others whether we agree or not. lol.
That's a little condescending.
My question is a genuine enquiry. Do you have any answers?
Hey, it’s Daniel,
You still haven’t shared with me how you know your dog loves you? 🦮
If you suggest that it’s just a ‘feeling’ then what’s next?
After thinking it through, you say, I can’t give you a factual answer then what?
You seem to be at odds with what and how people think, believe and then act in accordance with their beliefs.
A group of young men and women went to Jackson, Miss. and worked almost two weeks helping repair houses and churches damaged by climate change. The church they belonged to fosters the belief of: ‘when you do it to the least of these…”
There are of course a lot of assumptions in life, Daniel. If nice and pleasant feelings is, love, then I will attribute that to my dog behavior towards me, or any individual that enjoys being in my presence.
Likewise, if I see someone in anger and violence towards me, I will assume that is hate. Can I be sure it's hate? No! It could be a mental condition, but unless I'm informed differently I will assume it is.
Emotions, and behavior, are very complex...right?
It's nice that some people went and repaired houses and other buildings, isn't it? I bet some did that out of love, some might have done it as a judicial legal requirement community project, others might have done it for other reasons. Who knows 🤷🏼
Thanks for your interest 🤗
Spirituality is a path, while the Bible, the Book of Mormon and the Kuran are direction signs.
True. But don't forget that spirituality is what really matters and depends on no book published by men.
Lionheart, this is misleading. There are differences in the ancient non-original manuscripts but not in what we consider fundamental beliefs. They are still unaltered. I agree that the translation with the word 'homosexual' is inconsistent. However, the word that was used before (sodomy) says fundamentally the same concept: non-vaginal intercourse. The fundamental belief is that only vaginal intercourse is viewed as the norm.
What you don’t get is that these ‘non-original’ manuscripts are just as ‘original’ as what King James cherry-picked for your bible. All of it blatherings by a bunch of nomadic goat herders.
“Nomadic goat herders”
Interesting phrase. At the end of the Book of Job,
God restores Job with:
4,000 sheep 6,000 camels 1.000 yolk of oxen Plus seven sons and three daughters.
No goats. 🐐
There is a HUGE difference between "act of sodomy" and "homosexuality", in the 1st instance, ANY NONE COMFORMING sexuality is condemn, meaning that even heterosexual people practicing "non-vaginal intercourse" for the purpose of reproduction are considered sinners, whereas when using the word "homosexuality" (which did not exist before the late XIXe C.), the translation misleads the reader against only one kind of sexuality, which was not the case before this word was actually used.
I believe the only issue is consent. As long as both parties are consenting and no one is getting harmed, what people do in their private time is none of anyone else's concern. And God surely does not care. People do many things just for the pleasure. It isn't only to produce children.
You left out consenting "adults". Most important.
The Lord has blessed me with hearing the singing of angels, and their song went like this: Stay on the sunny side. Always on the sunny side. Stay on the sunny side of life. You'll feel no pain, as we drive you insane, so stay on the sunny side of life.
Monty Python had it right
Define "adults". The age of sexual consent varies from state to state.
It seems that anyone from the christian religion who needs to attack homosexuals or anyone else has forgotten the deepest tenets of their Leader's teachings. i.e. judge not... love thy neighbor... and my favorite: Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
Not to mention was different from biblical times. The start of puberty meant the start of adulthood. "Teenager" wasn't considered a child back then.
There are several contradictions between the gospels of the New Testament. Paul’s personal beliefs drove the New Testament all “in the name of God” which has been a statement used over the centuries to control other people’s beliefs and actions. Furthermore so many Christian faiths pick and choose what is relevant from the Old Testament and what is not to their specific benefit, in personal behavior and for their own political benefit. As a former evangelical Christian I witnessed this firsthand.
Of course they are. And, never forget this, Paul is only expressing his OPINION, because at the end of the day, that is all the pronoucements of any religion can be.
The phrase 'this is the word of the lord' is nonsense. NO ONE knows of any words of any gods, because NO ONE knows if any god or gods actually exist or not.
Rev_Shaun, speak for yourself. You do not know if god(s) exists. That is all you can really say. You can't speak for other people.
Strange that he likes to call himself 'reverend', whilst mocking theistic religions.
What is "strange" about this? Rev Shaun is stating a fact: no one does KNOW whether god(s) exist. Billions BELIEVE that the god(s) they adhere to exist, but belief does not equal knowledge.
The Oxyrhynchus Papyri are there as well. The Oxyrhynchus Papyri are the early drafts of the Bible which local farmer had been using for fertilizer.
Sorry Lion, but the oldest bible is the Codex Sinaiticus, and it was not written in the Sinai as you claim
Anh, so the discussion has now turned to what is the oldest collection of Bronze Age Bull***t. All of it still stinks.
Yep, just like everything you post or say. Thanks for admitting it
I didn't claim it was written in the Sinai, Daniel. The Codex Sinaiticus, AKA, the Sinai Bible, are one and the same. It has been considered that the Codex Vaticanus is possibly a good thirty years older, due to its more archaic style, and the absence of the Eusebian Canon tables.
Um no sorry Lion. The Sinai Bible that you referenced was dated to 100 years AFTER The Codex Sinaiticus. According to Webster, Is the Sinai Bible the oldest version? No.Dating to the mid-fourth century C.E., Codex Sinaiticus is the oldest complete manuscript. The Sinai bible came 100 years afterwords.
You. Can read it here, Daniel. You will see that the Codex Sinaiticus is also known as the Sinai Bible.
Nobody in their right mind would use wikipedia as a source. Heck in every college and university in the US if you get caught referencing or using wikipedia as a source you fail your term paper or you fail the course. Heck even wikipedia is saying for you not to use it as a source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_reliable_source and here is a list of all the times they got doing sneaky things and that INCLUDES the co founder Jimmy wales EDITING his own bios https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedia_controversies So please forgive me if I dont believe a word of what wikipedia claims, and neither should you
So the bible is a good reliable source then for truth 🤭
Exactly where the Codex Sinaiticus was written is not known. But, it was found St. Catherine's Monastery at the foot of Mount Sinai. And yes, the Codex Sinaiticus and the Sinai Bible are the same thing. You don't have to rely on Wikipedia to confirm that. Codex Sinaiticus is Latin for “the Sinai Book.”
yes it IS known. Codex Sinaiticus was written in ancient greek, not latin. And sorry but the "Codex Sinaiticus" does not mean what you claim. Codex means manuscript, not book or bible and Sinaiticus is where it was stored. Guess you had to stretch quite a bit to come up with your definition.
Thanks for the laughter you caused! What a dope! No one said that the Codex Sinaiticus was written in Latin. It was given a Latin name: "Codex" which means "book" (specifically, folded sheets with writing on both sides bound together to form a spine); "Sinaiticus" referring to where it was stored (the Sinai) for thirteen hundred years. So, "the Sinai Book" aka the Sinai Bible.
No we should thank YOU for the less then intelligent post of yours. I gave links and facts, so only a fool would try and deny it. So tell me, which one are you?
too many worship a book before worshiping God.
I’m sure some do worship a God before reading a book. That’s one of the problems with the indoctrination of children, before they can read. Many faiths do that, Donald.
The discussion of Codex Sinaiticus and differences is often shouted about by memes and such, but the Codex Sinaitius and KJV are in different languages. That alone is a basis for a claim of "differences." Also, the deuterocanonical books may be in some versions, and not in others, hence, more differences. The Dead Sea Scrolls are another collection that some call an ancient Bible, but what the discussion is missing is, what did the terms in the oldest manuscripts actually mean? There are lots and lots of ancient manuscripts, not all in collections, some in Bibles, some in fragments, and some in partial collections. Throwing around simplistic memes like, "There are 14,000 differences" really does nothing but muddy the waters, and attempt to simplify a very complex topic.
This point would only be valid if it was the only verse about homosexuality. It's not. There are several verses in both the NT and OT very clearly defining sex between men as a sin, and clarifying marriage as the union of one man and one woman. There is an absurd movement in Christianity attempting to pretend these verses do not exist and a desire to treat homosexuality and gay marriage sins we can normalize, accept, and accommodate as something God approves, but the truth is they are sins God can forgive - and only if the sin is first discontinued, and repentance is complete. God cannot and will not turn a blind eye to sin while it is endorsed as a lifestyle under His roof. Moreover, His holy spirit cannot dwell in such a place.
Exodus 18:22, you don't get much older text than this. Man shall not lie with man as he would with a woman. No, the word homosexua,l isn't used but the implication is.
If you can't work that out then go back to school and learn English. It is abhorant to our creater. If you wish to do that or anyone else, God will not stop you, you have been already warned and those who do do it always feel guilty and ashamed because God also gave us a conscience.
Well I'm probely be hated for this! But the mention of homosexual in the translation was put there by man yes, also the Trinity was put there by Simon the sorceror , He saw the aposels performing healings by faith, thought he could buy it but no, the holymen told Him that it was not for sale, you cant buy it, its a gift ect. so simon went on to follow them learning what he can to start his own church He was in the pisition to persway the powers that be at the time to put things like that in scripture, this was the start of Satans Church, the word Easter was mistranslated also it was supose to be translated Passover, it was corrected,in the new King james,so yes some translations are off, King James it the best translation yet,We must under stand that the oridgenal Hebrew Langue is a Lost langue so translation is lost, But good news It''''s called the living word For a reason, I'll get into that latter. The Holy Bible RSV is a bad translation i can show you what! Thats for another time.Every thing is in that word,The Holy Bible I could say, Help On Loving Your Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth. More later.
Homosexuality and paedophilia cannot be a sin. as it is a common practise from god's messengers. From the pope to cardinals,vicars, bishops, priests and deacons all happily engage in this practise.ordained by god, .
AND they are still doing it today. Catholics have given over a billion dollars of God's money to victims. And if you look at the other Christian religions they are in on it too.
Jehovah's Witnesses are the Christian organization with more cases of pedophilia. The Catholic Church comes second to them.
@Pastor George Day I will ask you to reconsider and restate your claim. It's a flat out LIE. Anyone who has critical thinking skills (meaning a brain) knows it.
Dude You are claiming every Jehovah's Witnesses, man, women and child is a pedophiles. And not only that, every Jehovah's Witnesses would have to be having pedophilia sex multiple times a day to out pace pedophilia in the Catholic church.
Dude, just look at the numbers. Jehovah's Witnesses have only been around since 1872 and there are only about 8 million today. No we know pedophilia has been going in the Catholic church for over 500 years that's to Martin Luther. How many Catholics are there? There are over 1 billion.
My friend you claim make NO sense. There are too few Jehovah's Witnesses and they haven't been around long enough to even complete with the Catholics. Maybe the Mormons.... But even then I doubt it as there are about twice as many Mormons as Jehovah's Witnesses.
Think about what your saying to see if it makes any sense before saying it. People will respect you more. And when you are wrong, say so.
Actually he said nothing of the sort. That was a huge gap in logic there. High rates in clergy doesn't mean every single person is involved. It just means it's running at higher rates within the clergy those religion than in other religious clergy. Now I'm fairly certain not every single person in those religions are clergy, nor is every single member of just the clergy doing it. Just that higher numbers of incidences are going without punishment.
Oh geez, anti-Catholic much? 78% of all Catholic sex abuse cases were committed by gay men. 81% of all Catholic sex abuse case victims were post pubescent boys, or young men. In the late 1950s the church lowered standards to increase recruitment to the priesthood. 3% of accused priests get convicted and 2% of those received prison sentences in the United States. The propaganda of the left controlled media likes to divide people and use total worldwide numbers to great affect.
And, if you keep up with the news, the Southern Baptist Church was investigated and thousands of sexual abuses were uncovered as well as the LDS Church. Jewish Rabbis were discovered giving infant boys herpes when they sucked the blood from the newly circumcised penises. And, it is difficult to determine just how many ministers of "independent churches" abuse their flock. I have met very few women who couldn't tell me of "Youth Ministers" having sexual dalliances with them or a friend of theirs. The Catholic Church is often used to express the Christian faith as it has many outward expressions that demonstrates a belief to the and membership as a Christian so therefore the Catholic religion is used whenever the author of movie, book, or press wishes to make a point about Christians and Christianity, pro or con.
What is the source of your statistics?
Do you have any sources to back up your numbers? Dividing people? Pretty sure a direct attack on the catholic church, and blaming the left for some conspiracy, does just that.
Pedophilia is a human problem. It is not specific to any organization. It's certainly true that different churches treat this problem differently, as a matter of church discipline - and we can have a fair discussion about how appropriate this is or isn't, but the truth is pedophiles seek out places where they can gain easy access to children. This is not a reflection of bad doctrine in the churches they invade, but bad people abusing God's trust.
Although I'm not sure if I 100% agree with you, I'd like to note that any act in which there is a victim could/should be considered a sin. However, if you are talking about a consensual act, then I'd have to agree with you, there.
Here’s my reaction: Yes, it’s mistranslated, but this isn’t the first attempt to show this translation was wrong. It’s been known for decades that this committee made a mistake. The problem is that nobody in Christian circles cares. It’s far more advantageous to have an easy scapegoat to blame for everything wrong in the world. Religious leaders are looking for ways to control the masses. They’re not interested in truth or accuracy. These people want power and devotion.
I, for one, am tired of being called an abomination. However, I know nothing is wrong with me, and I am exactly what I was meant to be. This religious nonsense, however, has already led to physical harm, even death, of innocent people, and it will lead to more before they’re done.
We are all born to be who we are meant to be.
Agreed and God loves us.
Are you saying that some people are literally born to be victims?
Are you saying that God makes mistakes? Lots of them?
Not at all. I'm saying he is fictional. Unless of course you have proof to the contrary?
Why does anyone give rat’s arse about the nonsense and myths in a 2000 year old book that’s completely irrelevant to 21st century science and society? Religion has a lot to answer for nearly 2000 years of human stagnation!
In the US you have a lot of people who can't think and are brainwashed into believing. And these crazies are in positions of power like the senate where we have one saying Jew control Space Lasers and are starting wild fires and creating a food shortage. Common sense, critical thinking, and science tells us otherwise.... But that still doesn't stop from people from believing.
Social conditioning is a powerful drug, especially when administered from an early age by mommy, daddy and Uncle Billy Bob.
But religious brainwashing is even more powerful.
Dr. Zerpersande, is that your version of Adam, Lillith, and Eve?
I have zero belief in such nonsense. The fact that you do?
Goes to mommy, daddy and Uncle Billy Bob.
"Start children off on the way they should go, and even when they are old they will not turn from it." Proverbs 22:6. In other words brainwash them early so it will be harder for them to question the many inconsistencies and contradictions in pretty much any religious doctrine when they get old enough to think for themselves. Some folks have spent a lot of money on therapy trying to get over the mental damage done by religion.
The Bible is wrong about a lot of things. It was written in a time of wide spread ignorance to the world. I’m not saying they were dumb by any means, just unknowing. Today’s right wing war on the LGBTQ+ individual isn’t new, it’s been hammered into individuals who think critical thinking is going along with the crowd. It is unfortunate.
The Big Bang proves the Bible is wrong starting in Genesis. If one studies any of the older religions and beliefs you find almost all of the stories were ripped off from older religions.
Douglas Robert Spindler, the commonality in all mainstream religions of the stories of old only proves their truthfulness. Also, you are reading the Bible in the wrong way. This book has never claimed to be a treaty of science. It simply tells a story that goes back to ancient traditions. There is deep theological meaning in that. As for the Big Bang, you will be surprised with what they will make of it 20 or 30 years from now. These are mere theories, not facts.
@Pastor George Day I love you. If you tell a lies over and over it only proves their " proves their truthfulness." YES the Nazi's/Hitler, politicians like Sen Joseph McCarthy, Alex Jones, President Donald Trump and products advertisers, like the tobacco and vaping companies have all used this tactic. Thank you for including religion, has to be the biggest lie people believe.
If you know your Christian religion, (please take a class in it) you would know the Bible is the word of God. What do you mean I'm reading the Bible the wrong way? Is there a right way?
Dude take a science class as so you can speak intelligently about science. See it's Pastors like you who use science words incorrectly that makes young people laugh at statements made by Christians. My friend look at the scientific definition of the word theory. So you are saying the the Gradational THEORY is not a fact? Germ THEORY is not a Fact? The Theory of Relativity is not a fact? The THEORY of Evolution is not a fact?
Dude where did you go to school to learn all of this nonsense? Become smart, educate yourself. People will respect you instead looking at you as an uneducated fool. As a trans person don't you want people to respect you?
The issue non-scientific people usually state first is the "theory of evolution. Quick scientific term lesson. Evolution as a scientific mechanic is a fact. Living beings evolve. The THEORY of evolution refers to why it happens. In other words, survival of the fittest is Darwin's theory as to why evolution happens. But evolution itself is a scientific fact.
When young people hear Christians say there's no such thing as evolution they laugh. Law enforcement and our courts use the Theory of Evolution and DNA evidence to convict people of crimes. We trust Evolution and DNA evidence so much we have put many people to death or sentenced them to life in prison. It's in many TV shows and movies. For a Christians to say there's no such thing as evolution and you should believe in Creationism is laughable to young people. They think Christians are just complete idiots.
Best explanation of evolution that I have seen. Yes, the fact that things evolve is a fact. Why and how are theories. Bravo!
Old commonly held stories like eclipses being punishment for lack of faith? Or the firmament and fundament? Those seem a lot more like false witness, than proven truth.
I read somewhere that the Big Bang is no longer perceived as true, Science found some new theory, something to do with the universe having limits.
Just because "science" came up with a new theory does not mean that everyone automatically believes it. If feasible it will be gradually accepted in academic circles. However, if the "somewhere" you read it is not Scientific American or something equally reputable then take it with a grain of salt. Just saying to consider the source (since I do not know what it was).
@Guy Sutherland McLaren Highly unlikely, and here's why. The Bing Bank was theorized about 100 years ago by a Belgium priest. What the came up with was the math to demonstrate there was a Big Bing. Einstein was in disbelief, but after reviewing the Priest's math realized he was wrong and the Priest was right.
Over the next 50 years there countless experiments to "see" if the Priest's/Einstein's calculations were accurate. In 1964 there was a definitive experiment which provided overwhelming evidence for the Big Bang.
The discovery that there was a Big Bang directly lead to the intention of the transistor, modern computers, LED lighting, smartphones, the Internet and GPS.
The Hubble and James Web telescopes have allowed us to look back in time and see the Big Bang. Scientist will always propose new theories but to say the Big Bang is no longer perceived as true, is going to take a lot of evidence. To say the Bing Bang is not true would be like saying Gravity doesn't exist.
Take a look at the work of Georges Lemaître. He was a Belgian Catholic priest, theoretical physicist, mathematician, astronomer, and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Louvain.
"I read somewhere" followed by "something to do with" really gives zero credibility to anything you write. Consider doing some actual research so you can post a comment worth reading.
Except that isn't how Science works, as Kuhn explained decades ago. Immutable truths are the provenance of priests and fortune tellers.
Really a silly argument. One either believes that the Bible is the inspired word of God or doesn't. Neither side will convince the other they are wrong.
One either believes the Bible is the inspired work of God, or doesn’t.
One either believes the book of Mormon is the inspired word of God, or doesn’t.
One either believes the Quran is the inspired work of Allah, or doesn’t.
One either believes in the Bhagavad-Gita, the Upanishads, the Vedas, or doesn’t.
One either believes in the Harry Potter books, or doesn’t. 🤷🏼
You forgot the Lord of the Rings.
The New Testament was a book compiled, written and ratified as the Roman Empire fell into the Dark Ages. Doesn't that say enough?
There is a flow from one side to the other. It occurs in both directions but primarily from ignorance and stupidity to enlightenment and rational thinking.
@CanadianYankee and @DrZerpersande, I agree with both of you. You both said the same thing with different approaches. I love it and I agree with both of you. God Bless and everyone God Bless.
Dr. Zerpersande, I also like talking to myself in the morning when looking in the mirror. Good to see I am not the only one. Bingo! :-)
All scripture is inspired by God and Is profitable for doctrine for reproof for correction and instruction in rightousness
And your evidence to that claim, David, is where?
All scripture? Like the part about stoning your daughter to death after she gets raped? Or the Curse of Ham? Do tell...
The translation of Leviticus 18:22 has also been translated out of context.
See, e.g.: https://blog.smu.edu/ot8317/2019/04/11/lost-in-translation-alternative-meaning-in-leviticus-1822/#:~:text=exist%20in%20Lev.-,18%3A22.,present%20within%20the%20original%20text.
This is a common problem with translations infected by the personal beliefs of the translator. Besides, Leviticus is the Old Testament,. Other proscriptions in Leviticus are also cherry-picked by Christians. Those who shave or eat shellfish are violating the proscriptions of Leviticus. Women who go out into society during their menstrual cycle are also violating Leviticus. Nobody cares about those prohibitions. Why do they only care about one that was mis-translated to damn homosexuality? Because they're homophobes.
Why did he destroy Sodom ?
Again, with Sodom the interpretation to which you refer was distorted by the interpreter. Read the text again, see if you don't agree the Sodom was purportedly destroyed due to the lack of hospitality of its people.
In those times, without highways and hotel chains, travelers relied on the hospitality of strangers. Frankly, if Sodom was really destroyed, I lean toward a natural catastrophe, such as a meteorite exploding.
God gets unfairly blamed for a lot of bad mojo.
Because that event is used by the author to move his plot line along. Do you really not understand how literary fiction works?
He? He who?
You’re using the idea of ‘god’ to support what ‘god’ said.
Sodom? The city that most likely didn't even exist? Regardless, reasons for its biblical destruction are more likely the act of inhospitable behavior towards visitors, the act of sexual assault, murder, theft, adultery, idolatry, power abuses, or prideful and mocking behavior.
The other out-of-context point (than nearly everyone ignores) is that the book of Leviticus was written for Levite priests and members of their families (Aaronites and Kohanim). It was never intended to be applied to the general populace. It was for the priestly class to maintain ritual purity.
It’s still ridiculous nonsense regardless who it was ‘meant for’.
IF that is true, it would only be a problem if that was THE ONLY place in the Bible (here used to indicate the Jewish and Christian scriptures) where the subject was addressed. But it's not.
Anywhere that subject is addressed or reference, the Bible has nothing good to say about it...no matter the mental gymnastics that the alphabet activist go through to say otherwise.
And don't blame me, I didn't write any portion of the bible. I'm just going off of what I see in black and white
You may not have written any part of it but other men did 2000 years ago. They were men of their backward time and wrote according to their agenda. I could write any word of negative meaning and it could be translated any number of ways. Yet, the original base meaning and intent would be that of the original writer. If they were judgmental bigots, the meaning would be the same as they intended.
I agree, except....your premise is totally missing the point of what are supposed to be Divinely inspired scriptures.
If you ( and that is the general pronoun "you" applying to everybody) don't believe that the judeo-christian scriptures are divinely inspired, that pretty much ends the discussion right there.
"If you ( and that is the general pronoun "you" applying to everybody) believe that the judeo-christian scriptures are divinely inspired, that pretty much ends the discussion right there."
That is absolutely true, Rev. Dr. Father JJ
And if one does or does not believe that, what is the point in even having the discussion with somebody on the opposite side? There is none.
Though I see by your name/titles that you think the whole thing is a farce anyway. . So there is that.
But if one is going to practice a faith that is in opposition to the Black and White Plain language of the judeo-christian scriptures, then they need to start their own different religion with their own set of scriptures and not say that the original does not mean what it says.
Kind of weird to join a religion and then start practicing in exact opposition to their written guidelines.
Rev. MichaelRS, here you make a very valid point.... but please no more alphabet language. Try to have some respect.
Michael, the fact is we have no idea whether English will be a dead language in 6,000 years so your "different religion with their own set of scriptures" could have the same exact translation problems in the future.
Except that when people 'join', they are children, whose parents usually have had them baptised. They may even be in a religious school because it has a good academic record, rather than their parents having strong beliefs, and the child is, again, not given a choice. They are then taught how they are off to hell for being born gay, which they didn't choose. Nobody suggests that they leave the faith that hates them, they are told to abstain, and not have same-sex relationships. St Paul was homophobic and misogynistic, and the question is: how far did he deviate from Jesus' teachings?
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Original scriptures may have been inspired. But they were altered or destroyed by the church. So inspired scripture may have existed but little of it is to be found in the Bible the church created. History also shaped original scriptures. Authors of certain books is questioned by some. Time frames of some texts is questioned or who actually wrote what mostly illiterate ddciples would have experienced. All I am saying is to keep an open and inquisitive mind. .
Yours is not an unreasonable argument. But it then brings up a couple of problems.
If they were altered wrongly and significantly enough from the original, how then do we have ANY insight or understanding as to God's will?
But assuming, just for sake of argument, that the various prohibitions on homosexuality made it intact down through the ages, are they not NOW being altered by "modernist" to shed a more positive light on that area?
Because it is a translation correction, not a conspiracy.
Lori-Ann Neeb, you forget that God is in control.
So... god got the translation wrong?
Rev. MichaelRS, again, your choice of language is derogatory and offensive to LGBT persons. Shame on you!
There are numerous other references in the Bible describing homosexuality, that leaves NO doubt as to how the holy, righteous loving God views this amoral, disgusting, unnatural, abominable practice . . . . SIN! (For which Jesus is the only true, permanent rescue.)
Jesus had all the elements associated with homosexuality! Unmarried and over 30, known associates (disciples) all unmarried, no definite female sexual associations! Not saying he was, but not saying he wasn’t! Sounds familiar, cf katolick priests!
You will have to give an answer for that on judgement day
Why should I give an answer to an imaginary event based on a 2000 year old book of nonsense and myths, none of which have ever happened and are based on stupid religious faiths? Definition of faith is belief without evidence!!
David, I am seeing your responses to others as well. I like what you are saying and it does all boil down to judgement day. That is when we will all be verified or all of us will be in shock. I believe the Christian Bible was written by God through the Disciples and many others God told the Holy Spirit to show them/tell them what to write. Revelation does open your eyes to the entire Bible, Old and New Testament. Problem is many sit down and read the Bible like any other book. They don’t realize they need to let the Holy Spirit know they are going to read the Bible and to please inform them of what they are reading and to give them knowledge on what they read. If they do not do this then Satan comes walking on it and messes with the people who do not protect themselves. So they misinterpret what they are reading. Thank you for sharing the truth with everyone. We have some confused people and I want to help them understand where I’m coming from and to see if I can clear any miss perceptions. I was teaching the Bible for a few years and it can be confusing. Unfortunately I obtains Covid and was sick for 6 wks and in less than two weeks of healing I was given Covid-related arthritis in my lower back and I ended up in a wheelchair. This was 2.5 yrs ago for the Covid and the attack. I’m still in treatment. So I had to stop teaching. Stay safe and be well David and everyone reading this.
Where does it say there is a judgement day? It wouldn’t, by any chance, be in that old book would it, David, written and composed by men? 🤷🏼
Revelation. Good book. Scary as all heck but also explains a lot throughout the bi le. Revelation is skater it says it.
'gee frayed': Contrary to your erroneous diatribe, Simon Peter, one of Jesus' disciples WAS married (Luke 4:38, I Corinthians 9:5) And, Jesus was frequently in the company of Lazarus' sisters and other women.
The writings of people, like you, using 'all', 'never', 'ever', 'always', etc are justifiably suspect due to their lacking credibility. To preclude further embarrassment, you'd do well to do your homework prior to posting such inane blather.
You are correct about Simon Peter, flugo, but when you are only talking about twelve people, using "all" is not unreasonable.
Hello Geoffrey - That’s not true. Some of the disciples were married. They left their wives and family to follow Jesus for 3 years. Mary Magdalen was always with them too. Many people can and do put Jesus before anyone, same sex or opposite sex in front of them. Believe it, there are people who are like that, even today. So, you cannot make that claim unless you have proof. I use the Christian Bible for me as proof. Sometimes we should read the Bible again because our memory starts playing tricks on us. We need a refresher. Ok?
Rev. Elizabeth: The bible is not PROOF of anything! It’s just a collection of manuscripts (books) of stories, myths and misunderstandings about times 2000 years ago selectively chosen years after any possible real events to reinforce control over the ignorant masses! It’s absolutely ridiculous to say the bible is the word of the god you want to believe in and at the same time condemn all other religions and their texts from around the world (Taoist, Shinto, Buddhist, Hindu, Islam, etc) as false. Why is your xtian nonsense any more possible than any or all of the other nonsense? At least some of the non xtian religions have created images of their gods whereas xtianity can’t or won’t even do that, except for Jesus being pictured as a western white man rather than a Middle Eastern Jew that he was, if he even existed! Same for the xtian god pictured and thought of as a MAN! Why would a MALE body and all its bits be of any use to a being that could create the billions of years old universe? Beats me! As for the Holy Spirit or Ghost - sounds like a third rate horror movie!🤪 Maybe for you it’s a nice placebo to allay the thought of nothing after life, similar to the nothing before life! Doesn’t make any sense whatsoever! Show me the factual evidence.
I suggest you read The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel.
Penny; The Case for Christ” was recommended to me, as the best evidence that there was an actual Jesus — however one must believe (because there is know way of knowing) in the myth-base King James Christian Bible in order to be receptive to such obvious mythology.
Marx said it best “Religion is the opium of science ignoramuses” — to keep the rabble subservient — promise them an eternity, while floating on a cloud—playing a harp.la,de, la, de, da.
Geoffrey C. Olive, what nonsense and how silly is this comment! ALL APOSTLES were married but John, and Paul was a widower. These are the facts. As for Jesus, he vowed to the Church as his bride. So, please, get some religious education or say nothing!
I bow down to your “superior” knowledge and admit to being wrong about the disciples being unmarried. That doesn’t mean they weren’t homosexual or bisexual! Many married men are also homosexual and particularly in societies where homosexuality is illegal, marriage may be used as a cover. In the past, (and in some places now!) homosexuality was punishable with the death penalty, particularly in countries with Islamic Sharia law! The death penalty for homosexuality was current in Jesus’s time in Israel - see the Bible Old Testament Leviticus 20 - but we’ll never know his sexuality for certain!
Facts are wonderful things until your asked for legitimate proof the romans invented bureaucracy and kept very detailed records but none outside the bible document these supposed facts . And it was assembled roughly 400 years after the fact from verbal traditions . Yes there were many letters between believers making claims .
But then even christian can't agree on what the bile says why else is there 2000 + sect's and none agree on which rules are real and not required .
Yea, it is a sin. I’m not refuting that. But, it is an unforgivable sin. So yes, they continue to sin but at the end of the day if they believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and accept Jesus as their Savior, they will be saved. I was upset when I found out murder’s and child Molesters are saved if they accept Jesus as their Savior. In the Bible it says the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy towards the Holy Spirit. Mistreating the HS, not acknowledging the HS. I didn’t write the Bible and in Seminary the Minister’s couldn’t explain to me why the murders and rapists and molesters are not unforgivable sin, just blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. One Minister told me it is in the Bible and another told me to pray on it. I did but I didn’t get an answer and nothing was pointed out to me either. We are taught to preach what the I le says and always ask the Holy Spirit to guide you when preparing your speech for your congregation. I never did the pulpit. I became a Pastoral Therapist.
@ Rev. Elizabeth: Molesters and child rapists can be forgiven and saved if they repent and come to Jesus. Jesus says Go and Sin No More. also You will know them by their fruits. So if a molester or child rapist claims he has been saved, but then he goes and does that sin again, he is obviously not saved.
The reason the unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit: If you believe that the Holy Spirit is evil, then there is no way for you to get saved. Think about it.
Hello Jo-Anne Head - A pleasure to chat with you. Apparently you are not reading all I have said on this subject, responding to others. I also noticed a lot of my posts have disappeared. So I’m just going to say that you have practically quoted me verbatim, no lie. I was surprised to see this in my emails. I thought the app messed up and sent me my post. I didn’t see your name on the post until I emtered the app and saw it was you. Verbatim Jo-Anne, verbatim I have said this. I’m also not sharing everything about me. I have been teaching the Bible for 25 years and for 15 years I was a Pastoral Therapist. It requires you to know the Bible KJV. So, I thank you for your post to me. Dang, I swear you copied my post. You quoted me verbatim. 😂😂😂😂. I can find many of my posts. For some reason I can’t find many of my responses to others. I wish you well and happiness. God Bless.
It is well documented nowadays that people with such an anxiety toward homosexuality around them are litteraly suppressing same inner feelings...
Contrary to you being so unconfortable in your own skin, GOD is all love for his children, and does not discriminate, because sexuality is not to be feard...
Yes, you are correct. This is where I’m not happy. They are forgivable sins. If they declare Jesus as their Savior and ask for forgiveness, and God knows our true heart, they will be forgiven. It’s there in the Bible as well.
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Oh I'm sorry I'm supposed to believe a book written in the dark ages? Also didn't peasants used to have to buy their absolution? And they did it too, because they had faith.... Who said "God" was really good? 🤐🤫 But u know... What do I know know right .. I'll believe in what I believe until I meet that higher power. Or have we already and we forgot? Interesting....
Jesus loves you and he gives you a chance but you don't accept it it's on you. No one to blame but yourself. If you meet him it's going to be to late He will be judging you because you did not have faith in his son Jesus to die for your sins.
Absolute indoctrinated rubbish, David. Did you read that from somewhere?
Billie Jo Gomez, if by dark ages you mean the Middle Age, your comment points to your own ignorance of the facts.
There are many things that we should remember when referencing the Holy Bible: 1) It was initially created by man; 2) It has been revised and translated several times by man; 3) The translations have been the basis of wars for centuries.
Taking from that I've believed for several decades that the fantastic Amy Grant and many other religious singers have said it best, it is to be used as a lamp onto my feet and a light onto my path. In other words it is to be used as a reference and not an absolute. Joel Osteen is a good and powerful minister but in his opening he says that the Bible 'says I am who I am and says I do what I can do', which makes it an absolute. I don't agree because of the above outlined reasons.
As for homosexuality being a sin, I call blasphemy. When I went through my struggle I nearly cried myself to sleep for several nights begging for the Lord Jesus and the Heavenly Father to show me a sign. I still resisted until New Years of '03 and I had a great friend convince me that coming out was going to be my New Years Resolution. I have suffered, I have gained, I can look back and admit that I was always attracted to males and am happily married to a religious man today. The most religious Auntie that I have has even realized that she too may have been blinded from the Bible's words, and that her trust in the Lord and God have shown her the light to appreciate me.
Extremely well versed, Rev Frankie. You have made me understand part of your struggle and I thank you for that. With much respect, sir!
Rev Frankie PG, I honor your journey and wish you and your partner blessings. But please do not twist the traditional meaning of Scripture. My own limitations are no valid reason to twist Scripture. It is called humility :-)
Thank you Pastor Day. Yet, I challenge you as well as any other person that studies The Word about the creation, development, translations and revisions of the Holy Bible? Many things have been put in, many things have been taken out and many things were not allowed in to begin with. I encourage myself and others to hold the Holy Bible as a light rather than a standard.
Light? I find much if it to be extremely dark, and definitely not a good read for children. I can see why children graduate towards Harry Potter.
I see that.
Yup Thats why I have a hard time believing stuff
So Many misunderstandings out there in all ways of life.
And how do we fix? Probably in impossible unless they just fix it then in a couple hundred years maybe it’ll change
I believe Jesus excepts, everybody exactly who they are That’s all I see his actions are in the Bible I don’t look at the words I look at the actions that Jesus did and shows us
Love is an action Not an emotion But the action can create and emotion within someone Not the point but thought i would say
Agreed. When all else fails remember spirituality which comes from the heart and knows right from wrong.
I question what spirituality really is. If it’s as you say, something that determines right from wrong, then how does one know who is right if a person, using their “spirituality”, comes to a different conclusion that another person that is also using their “spirituality”?
Decisions have been made in the past by religious people using their spirituality that eventually, in some cases, led to wars. How do we reconcile the inquisition, led by religious leaders, if they used spirituality to come to decisions.
How do we reconcile the Catholic Church, with all of its spirituality, being worth more than $30 billion, knowing there are children dying of thirst and hunger on this planet of ours?
Such events as the inquisition and many other atrocities done in God's name were done by men with their own agenda. They hid behind the concept of religion to try to justify their actions. I doubt much spirituality or any at all was involved. Don't get me started on the Vatican and history ! lol. The church of history was very corrupt and run by men with their own agendas. They stood behind all their dogma to justify their actions. I will never disagree that the Vatican's history is full of corruption and power obsessive agendas. To me that is a defining difference between religion and spiritually. I know who I am now would never harm or threaten anyone just because they think differently than I do. I am happy to respect their right to their own beliefs as long as they give me the same consideration. I take a live and let live, as long as everyone is happy and no one is getting hurt, attitude. I would like to think I would do the same if I had any past lives in those times but I do not have any such abilities to remember that. I guess all those memories will be given back whenever my time to return Home comes again. I am glad for the mindset I have now. If I meet or speak with someone else with different beliefs, I am genuinely curious and interested in hearing about those different views and trying to figure out where that person is coming from to have those beliefs whether I personally agree with them or not.
I’m not refuting what a young man found. If it is true it must be quickly resolved, other translators consulted. Get to the matter quickly. The Christians of old will need to learn what that word really means. Is God against homosexuality? One place in the bible does say “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is abomination,” Leviticus 18:22 NKJV. When I am asked how I feel I refer to this verse. Even worse scenarios follow with verse 23 regarding animals. Anyway, I believe God gave us the gift of love and acceptance. When I read this verse I’m conflicted because how can we love all but the people who are attracted to the same sex? I also read in Revelation that all Christians are saved except for the people who do harm nor recognize the Holy Spirit. That is the unforgivable sin. Read Relation. A lot is explained about the Bible in Revelation and our end days for better days for believers in Chris, Holy Spirit and God. So, as you can see how many will feel conflicted. God taught us to love no matter sex, race or how a person believes. This verse tells me you cannot lay with the same sex. God knows if we lay with another and not our child, it usually means we love that individual. We are at our most vulnerable part of life when we sleep. Laying with another is giving complete trust and that trust is usually given from some sort of love. I do hope that those responsible for the Bible work on this forthwith so we can teach that it is not an abomination and this way people will accept. It will take forever I’m afraid. Look how we still have a race problem in the United States and other countries. So the Bible could be fixed yet there will be people hurt by others for just the fact you love the same sex, or you feel you weee born with the wrong body, or you like to pretend to be the opposite sex sometimes or marry the same sex. I will still answer with Leviticus 18:22 and then I will say, but God gave us the gift to love one another. Is it Satan making people to love the same sex and have sexual relations? It could very well be. I say live and let live as long as no one getss hurt.
The people responsible for the Bible are in the Vatican and you will never get truth out of them. They have been controlling Christianity for 2000 years to suit their agenda. If they were to admit to lies or let out any of their secret archives, it would undermine the whole basis for their religion. They would rather die with the lie. I know everyone must find their own path and I respect that. But my beliefs are that Satan does not exist and the book of Revelations is total fiction, the writings of a persecuted man. I disregard the entire book.
How many times is satan mentioned in the bible?
David Cox, quite a few. Have you read the book of Job?
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Lori-Ann Neeb, you are speaking and acting unwisely, for you attribute to yourself an authority you do not have, viz to define canon. As for the Vatican or Catholic Church, that is a breakaway from the Greek Church. So no, they are not the ones manipulating anything. The Greek Church also lacks a pontiff, so again agreement on the canon without a common leadership is evidence of the authority of the Bible as it was given to us. Study Church history, sister :-)
How do you define a true relationship of love? I'm a whole lot confused honestly. A love relationship between male and female will will produce offspring. Love between two men or two women produce no offspring. That has to mean something. I can't believe a God would approve of a homosexual relationship because if all people were homosexual, the population would die out in one generation! Does anyone ever think about that? I personally believe in live and let live, but I can't believe a God would understand or accept that.
How do you deal with a love between a man and a woman who are unable to conceive children? Is that an abomination also?
You are not supposed to "personally believe" anything. You're supposed to blindly believe whatever your magic book says. Personal belief is the gateway to independent thought, which is the opposite of religious superstition.
Which of the thousands of non existent gods made up by humans are you claiming gave humans the gift of love? Any one, more than one, or all? If you believe that you’ll believe anything to justify your misled belief in one of the worst things humans ever invented, namely religion(s)! Get real!
Geoffrey, I’m not a religion. I do not promote religions at all. Religions do more harm than good. I read the Bible and I take my time reading the bi le. I cannot quite book and verse, it I know it is there. I believe this is in the gospel about loving others as you love God. It says God loves us. There is a prayer many people say at their weddings. It’s regarding love for one another. There is nothing wrong with loving each other. I believe woman and man need to be together in Ofer to keep people alive. If there is only relationsoa with the same sex, then people will die off and there will be no more. This is why I stick with Leviticus. No one is going to agree even 50%. We all have a right to speak our minds. I agree that it should be done with respect. I respect what you have to say, but it does not pertain to me. I never said I was about religion. The Jewish started that way back in the biblical era, long before Christ. Be safe and be well everyone. 🙏🏼
I don’t know if I answered you. The only God I believe in is the God who created Heaven and Earth and gave us life. The Father of Jesus. There are no other god that I refer to not do I pray on them nor do I acknowledge them. Only the God in the Christian Holy Bible, that God, our Creator.
Rev. Elizabeth, when Paul wrote the word “arsenokoitai,” he was referring to Men have sex with Boys. At the time men were rapping slave boys, and Paul didn’t’ like that. Theologians have been trying to get this changed since the ‘60s but because the Christian sec won’t allow it to be changed, it never has been, nor will it ever be changed.
The word “arsenokoitai” two words to make one. The best description of this would be the word “butterfly.” Combining “Butter” + “Fly” makes absolutely no sense unless you have the context to put it together. We do not have a context of what Paul was actually trying to say. The Christian leadership will never admit to this, because it would threaten their dominance over their disciples.
Canadian Yankee- everyone who has earned a ULC DD — should know that the Holy Ghost is gay — and when the Roman Catholic Church got rid of the Holy Ghost — then replaced him with a Holy Spirit — the Holy Spirit promoted homophobia.
Ergo, use the USA Patriotic Bible — the Thomas Jefferson Bible- which was written by a patriot — rather than by an anti-democratic homophobe such as King James.
There is a sin that will not be forgiven and that's against the holy spirit
David; are the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost two different sides of the same coin?
Or are they “two in one” as the Trinity is three in one?
Only those of us ULC’ers, who have earned their DD are qualified to answer this profound question.
And the answer is: the Holy Spirit is a manmade Spirit, while the Holy Ghost was created by his father (AKA, the Christian God) to impregnate the Virgin Mary (aged twelve) — before Joseph (the Virgin Mary’s 80-year old celebrate non-married spouse) could devirginize her.
I hope this clears this up for you, Rev David.
I bet you read that in an old book written in the bronze age by people trying to explain why the sun goes up and down.
William Dusenberry, first, if God is homophobic, how come one of the first to receive baptism was a eunuch from Ethiopia? The Holy Spirit himself miraculously transferred Philip to the way of the eunuch. Second, Ghost and Spirit just mean the same thing in the English language. This is not theology; it is linguistic. It's a separate field. To your lack of knowledge, the original Aramaic language refers to Ruach HaKodesh, which is a feminine feature. The Holy Spirit was translated Pneuma in Greek (as a neutral feature) and Spiritus Sanctus in Latin (as a masculine feature). However, Ruach is the motherly side of God, who is one in three persons. If in Yahweh we meet the Father and in Yeshua our heavenly bridegroom, in Ruach we relate to God as our mother. That is why Wisdom in 8 & 9 Proverbs is referred to as a divine woman. Dig deeper in theology before you formulate an opinion, please.
A eunuch is a man who has been castrated and has nothing to do with homosexuality. Sure you can be a homosexual and a eunuch but being a eunuch does not make you a homosexual.
The original canon itself was cherry-picked to fit an agenda. That agenda was all about power and money. I don't believe most of what it says in any version.
I've read the comments and all I can say is how sad😔. However, I'm under the impression that we as humans have gotten some things right and some things wrong . Only time will tell but, in the meantime, despite the various opinions we must learn how to get along and RESPECT each other as human beings..😊
There have been as many translations of the ancient texts that became The Bible as there have been cultures who copied and decided what words to use. I’m not surprised entire books of the Bible are included or excluded in some denominations and words are under scrutiny. Check out the differences between Gnostic, Orthodox, Roman Catholic , Ethiopian, and KJV (remember that one had 47 scholars working on it) Having one word ‘ homosexual’ set off a war of prejudice that has lasted decades is very sad.
I have spent the last several months researching LGBT and messages from the bible. At this point I have no conflict with being a Christian and being LGBT. I don't need to justify my existence or the way God made me. However, this was hard won.
What about the ‘Wicked Bible’ which states, "Thou Shalt Commit Adultery".
I don't normally get involved in this discussion, but back in the early 70's, I heard Rev.Troy Perry speak on this subject. I also bought his book, "The Lord is my Shepherd, and He knows I'm Gay". In it, Rev. Perry mentions that the phrase referring to Homosexuality in the KJV and RSV was originally "Temple Prostitutes"! In other words, a mistranslation. I grant that He had an agenda, but after listening to him and talking one on one with him afterwards, He proved to be a VERY well-educated man who seems to know what He was talking about
That makes more sense to me, fwiw, imho! In my opinion, "Judge not, lest You be judged Yourself". At least that is what Our Holy Mother AND Father have said.
Larry Mager, you are right to say that Rev Troy had an agenda. He was, not for nothing, the founder of the Metropolitan Community Church, which is heretical in teaching. Temple Prostitutes were sacred temple servants, just like Catholics have nuns and monks. In paganism of old sex was used as a religious firm of worship to celebrate fertility to the gods. Children were also offered as sacrifices. Today nuns and monks vow to virginity to stand for the heavenly marriage with the Lamb, and he himself is the ultimate sacrifice. Rev Troy, I'm afraid, missed all this theological aspect for noticeably obvious reasons. May God forgive him.
I personally knew R. Troy Perry. I always thought Metropolitan Community churches had the right interpretation of the bible regarding homosexuality. I was a deacon there for a few years and worked with him and some of the leadership. I can tell you that they really did actually READ the bible and I can't say the same for the last couple of main line churches I worked in.
I think of the bible now as being like Canterbury Tales or stories written in the late 1800's. It's interesting to investigate their time period and how they worked life lessons into the stories. This makes me think of Ibsen writing about the Syphilis epidemic without being able to come right out and say their were sex acts outside of marriage.
I have no problem saying the bible and many other writings have information to learn from but the writers were just writers like we have today and just use their own experience and ideas to form their work.
NO PUN INTENDED, DID NOT JESUS CHRIST PAL OUT WITH 12 GUYs WHOM HE LOVED ?
Yes, and these men were hiding after Jesus was crucified and buried. So, the women got to the tomb first, and got their official mention in the books. They were likely there all along.
Homophobia was and is one of the INIQUITOUS phenomena that was PROPHESIED by Jesus. "Fear Allah only." (Quran) But Jesus DID prophesy an increase in INIQUITY and STRIFE. Homophobia fits the program perfectly among other iniquities. Another RELATED iniquity is SUBSTITUTING A MAN FOR A WOMAN AND A WOMAN FOR A MAN in the practice of sexual relations. What God did to Sodom and Gomorrah demonstrates what Allah thought of that aforementioned practice. Have you forgotten the Old Testament story of fire from heaven on the two Iniquitous Cities? But if the Sodomites had not forced themselves on the Angels sent by God to get Lot out the story would have been different.
His name is not Allah it is YHWH
Does your god have a surname, David? I’m sure children dying of cancer would like to know for when they curse it for not taking care of them in their dying hours of need. But not to worry, I’m sure your god will help soccer players score goals in the World Cup, or help people pass their driving test. You know….important things. 🤷🏼
David Cox, that is not true. Allah means God in Arabic. God has many names in the Bible, Allah is one of them if we translate Elohim.
His name is whatever the author of the fairy tale wants it to be.
I do believe that homosexuality is a sin but who of us has not sinned? It may not be the way God intended but the minute Eve and Adam sinned the world was changed into a world that was not what God intended.
We need to accept all people and treat them all the same.
so YOU know the mind of god? interesting. and blasphemous as well
In Leviticus it sexual laws were given. That's part of the Pentateuch which are the first 5 books of the Bible, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Dueteronomy. The Jews believe that this is All they need. In Levitucus, incest, men laying with men as with women, women laying with women as with men. It was also repeated in the New Testament, but before that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed for perversion which is wilful sin. To know it and still do it is woe.
All the yammerings of Bronze Age desert goat herders that couldn’t explain where the sun went at night. In the book “The origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind” it is proposed that these humans had not even truly reached consciousness yet.
Diana Lee Tyree, the Jews that do not accept Jesus (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform and Liberal Jews) have the Torah, the Prophets, and Other Writs. They all make up the Hebrew Bibles. Messianic Jews (who accept Jesus, and we have some in my TOB congregation) accept the New Testament as well. Just a correction to your statement.
Lev. 21:16-23 - Individuals with disabilities are lesser people. That Leviticus, we are supposed to listen to that??
It’s interesting to read some of the comments from openly gay people who try to twist the words of the buybull to keep their beliefs in religious nonsense and hypocrisy. For them homosexuality is an unchangeable biological fact and they are trying to avoid conflict with man made nonsense from a 2000 year old book! It’s the same as a comparison of homosexuality with any other book of fiction posing as truth or reality, for example Harry Potter or the works of Shakespeare, H.G.Wells, Charles Dickens, Jules Verne and thousands of other authors!
Geoffrey C. Olive: wrong! Homosexuality is not a biological condition but a mental health one. Intersex is biological.
Pastor George Day: So mental health has nothing to do with biological conditions? Try asking medical doctors, brain surgeons or psychiatrists that question!🤔 In addition, it seems that religionists can NEVER admit that there may be an alternative to their personal beliefs however absurd they may sound! ALL religions claim to be the ONLY right one and all the others are false. If you believe that you’ll believe anything! As an atheist/agnostic it seems totally logical to say that NO religion is right until proved 100% correct by established scientific or other methods of verification. I’m sure we can all think of something such as any god showing up to the whole world and performing some kind of supernatural natural powers like on the movies!🤪 Remember the definition of (religious) faith is belief WITHOUT evidence!👎
Homosexual behavior isn’t confined to humans. There are many, many animals which exhibit the behavior. Biological.
So you want to claim you are an animal? good to know.
Wow, I haven't heard that ridiculous old argument since the '70s. Thanks for the nostalgia.
the chrs chn god is all powerful, all knowing, omnipotent, omniscient, created the universe, time, the stars, galaxies, planets, the earth, the skies and oceans, all of the plants and animals, man and woman...all of this, single handed, to perfection!!!! yet the chrs chn fascists would have you believe that gay is somehow an oopsie? does chrs chn god do oopsies? that would deny all of the adjectives I used at the beginning of my comment. or is it more likely that the chrs chn god actually included/allowed gay because it's part of the human condition, like red hair, left handedness, people who like starbucks and olive garden...
Oopsie....lol wow need to study the bible...you don't know to much
I study important and factual things, not fairy tales and myths as a means to live my life by. anyway, if god is perfect and created us in his image and likeness and made some people gay and says gay is a sin then god did an oopsie. on the other hand if god doesn't do oopsies then being gay is perfectly fine and it's the mean and angry people that hate gays that are oopsies...not being very chrs chn or accepting so yeah...lol :-)
After reading this entire thread, the one thing I am convinced of, is that not one of us convinced the other of what they were convinced of😏. What the hell did I just say🤓?
Study your English, David. I’m sure you meant “…too much.”
Why should anyone study a book, written by semi-illiterate goat herders, or by people who didn’t know where the sun went at night, or written by people who never met the people they were writing about? 🤷🏼
David Cox, I agree. His actual choice of language gives him away... if he has any education at all!
Does that mean you are disputing what he said? Would you expand on that please? You gave no facts to support your comment.
Not interesting at all these people are deceived.
And you’re not, David?
Hello & GOD Bless: NO, The Holy Bible Is Not Wrong, That Homosexuality (sexual desire or behavior directed towards people of one's own sex or gender) Is A Sin (namely, an Abomination!) ACCORDING TO THE FOLLOWING HOLY SCRIPTURES:
In Genesis 1:27/ 2:18,20,21,22,23,24, & 25 KJV// ~ 27)So GOD created man in His own image, in the image of GOD created HE him; male and female created HE them.//2- 18) And the LORD GOD said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him./ 20) And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. /21) And the LORD GOD caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and HE slept: and HE took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;/ 22) And the rib, which the LORD GOD had taken from man, made HE a woman, and brought her unto the man./ 23) And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. / 24) Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. /25) And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and and were not ashamed.//
Please See: In Genesis 19, we see that GOD sent 2 Male Angels to Destroy Sodom & Gomorrah,: & the men of the city, even Sodom, compassed Lot's house and demanded to know the 2 Men(Angels) he took in. Lot offered his 2 virgin daughters, but the men insisted on the Male Angels, therefore, they all were smote with blindness, both small & great so that they could not know (have sexual relations with the Male Angels). / Homosexuality IS A SINFUL ABOMINATION! It IS Wickedness! As described by Lot, being a righteous man in whom GOD Favored! Read The Story For Yourself:
Again, over in Leviticus 18: 22-24,30:/ 22)Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: IT IS ABOMINATION! (repugnantly hateful, detestable,loathsome, etc.)/ 23) Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is CONFUSION./ 24) Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things; for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:/ 30) Therefore shall ye keep Mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I AM The LORD Your GOD. //
Also, See 2nd Timothy: 3;1-5// See Galatians 5:16./ 16) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.//
PROVERBS: 16-25; 25) THERE IS A WAY THAT SEEMETH RIGHT UNTO A MAN, BUT THE END THEREOF ARE THE WAYS OF DEATH.//
Revelation: 21: 7-8; KJV/ 7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his GOD, and he shall be my son./ 8) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and the whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.//
Galations: 6:7 KJV / 7) Be Not DECEIVED; GOD is Not Mocked; for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. / 8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit (Holy Spirit of GOD ALMIGHTY) shall of the Spirit (Holy Spirit of GOD ALMIGHTY) Reap Life Everlasting.//
Even if that student had proof of a misinterpreted word written in the Holy Bible, that alone IS NOT Sufficient Proof/Evidence To Erase / Eradicate All The Other Holy Scriptures That Point To The ABOMINATION of Homosexuality! And Why GOD's People Are Commanded To ABSTAIN From Committing Such a Filthy, Detestable ACT! It Wasn't Approved of By GOD ALMIGHTY In The Beginning, Neither Is / Will It Be Approved Of Nor Acceptable In The End, Until The End Of Times!/ Selah! AMEN! HOLY GHOST! AMEN LORD JESUS! ♥ ♥ ♥ CASE CLOSED!
I love that you choose Old Testament verses that one may consider to be anti-LGBTQ+, and then skip over to New Testament verses that only speak of punishment.
Doesn't Jesus Christ very specifically say that He has brought about a New Covenant? A NEW pact with God and Spirit?
Hebrews 8:13 - In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 9:15 - Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
To me, any "good Christian" who still tries to hang on to these 'old laws of the flesh' and judge accordingly, is missing the bigger point; because of Romans 8:1-39 - "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit."
Jesus basically told us, "The Old Testament laws are going away, because God created Me so that He could live as Man, to better understand Humankind. Now He(I) see that those who focus on 'laws of the flesh' are missing the bigger picture... the Law of Spirit. In the Spirit of God, we should all act through Love and Kindness to each other, regardless of each others' flaws.... for we ALL fall short of the Glory of God."
"Good Christians" who continue to judge others simply based on who they love or are attracted to are the modern-day Pharisees... they have only used God's Word to enrich or empower themselves by belittling others. Jesus did not hang with the Pharisees... heck, they even considered Him a blasphemer! No, Jesus made Himself at home and at peace with prostitutes, the unclean, the lost souls of the world. If we all lived in that mindset and heartset.. the true 'Spirit of God'... I think the world would be a little better off.
Good Afternoon Richard W.A.:
I usually do not come back in after I have replied to a Blog. All I want to say is, please do not forget that JESUS did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. In that description alone, you are missing the 'bigger picture'.
See here: Matthew 5:17, KJV: 17) Think not that I am come to destroy (to put an end to; demolish, ruin, extinguish, annihilate) the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Also, the reason JESUS was 'at peace' with lost souls is because they needed inner cleansing and healing in which He was able to offer them and make them a new creature in GOD ALMIGHTY, so that they do not lose their souls into eternal damnation.
See here: Luke 5:32, KJV: 32) I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. / We have to be humble enough to treat people with respect; and to minister to them the Love of JESUS and HIS Salvation Plan of Forgiveness. AMEN! / Take It Or Leave It!
Again, just because we love one another with a "Godly Love" in no way means we want to or desire to know them sexually! To even think this thought in one's mind, that person has sinned already! through his/her Lust!
If any man or woman desires to be physically involved with another person of the same sex/gender as him/her, it IS WICKEDNESS! And that spirit within them is an UNCLEAN spirit!
Last, but not least, read: Romans 1-28-32/KJV: 28) And even as they did not like to retain GOD in their knowledge, GOD Gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;/ 29) Being filled will all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, / 30) Backbiters, haters of GOD, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, / 31) Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: / 32) Who knowing the judgment of GOD, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. / My LORD!
No matter how you think about it or feel towards the Written Word of GOD, you Must have an Understanding of GODLY Love versus Worldly Love.
No one is going to make JESUS Allow / Grant any homosexual person a Right into Eternal Life without True Repentance and a Change of His/Her Damnable Lifestyle! They have to come out of that Wicked Lifestyle and walk and live in Holiness and Purity! /
If they cannot do that, even if they call themself a Minister of the Gospel of JESUS CHRIST, a Priest, the Choir Director, A Deacon, a Bishop, ETC., then they will hear, depart from me, I KNOW YE NOT! ye workers of iniquity! Or, better yet: Matthew 7:23/KJV: 23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. /
Please don't mislead the simple in mind and heart by making them think that homosexuality is okay / normal. Don't Lie for the devil! Or their blood will be on your hands!
Pause, And Think About That!
Closed... and slamming the door in the face of Jesus Christ and His teachings.
I can very well see that this has be a huge egregious error made by someone all those years ago. If this is the case then we shall have a huge fight on our hands by those that think the bible is being made to be seen as more LGBTQ+ friendly and not correcting an error that has caused the harm to some many people. Even then many will amp up their hatred of the LGBTQ+ people and would seek to harm them all the more. All of this is over the simple mistranslation of one word.
God told his early creation to "go forth and multiply." If early creation consisted of homosexuals, how could they multiply?
The entire Bible is a "simple human error". Nobody in the history of humanity has ever been able to provide any compelling evidence for the existence of ANY of the gods on offer. And the god of the OT, NT, BoM and Qur'an? Nope. There is no evidence for that immoral, misogynistic, genocidal monster either. How stupid does a god have to be to make something it hates possible?
Faith extends far into antiquity. Peoples of the world would base their faith on things they saw and the connections they made to a deity. The reason is that the root cause of the events were unseeable (i.e. disease, famine, etc.). They viewed the negative outcomes as deities or a deity being angry. The best example is diet. A clean diet was important because disease could spread rampantly through a community with little to no way to remedy it. What’s more, they had no real doctors or medicine, they relied on priests (the tribe of Levi for example). So ‘divine’ laws were implemented to to control diet to reduce disease, but packaged as law from a deity or deities. This would also track in extramatrimonial behavior. If two people who were without disease were married, the likelihood of catastrophe in the eyes of the people would be low. Conversely, sodomy and the like may have promoted infectious diseases, affecting the community. Ancient people would have wrapped this around a dogmatic brick and born into existence a ‘divine’ law. As for misinterpretation, that happens all the time - it’s as old as the aforementioned portion of my post. That can be particularly damaging, but in no way should cause shaming of beliefs. Every faith has a moral spine. Usually the spine shows it’s self in commandments or tenants. The 10 commandments are a great example, but there are others. Mosaic Law, the 9 noble virtues, to name a couple. The overall moral spine of a faith is very rarely malicious and usually promotes civil wellbeing. At the end of the day, people have faith for various reasons and usually not malicious. The dialogue opens up a fantastic opportunity to study these ideas and understand people better. That is how we truly bridge these divides.
In the Torah it says mand is not to lay with man in the way he lays with a woman. It is specifically forbidden by God. In fact it says it's one of the things God despises, however, Hebrew is gender specific and this applies only to men. Whatever the NT says it is predicated on the Torah as this comes from the Hebrew people. I have never persecuted gays. I do not like what gay men do as I find it a very unnatural and unhealthy act. The Torah also says women should not have sex on their periods. Orthodox Jews practice family ritual purity and this is something that has allowed Jewish women to have healthier sexual organs. There is virtually no endometriosis in the Orthodox community. Torah laws are for life and health. Any rational thinking person would recognize that.
All ULC ministers should try to watch, or, better yet, rewatch, Bill Maher’s classic “Religious nuttiness” now showing on HBO — it covers all one needs to know, about religious silliness.
No one should be able to be awarded an academic Ph.D — if they actually believe in any religions silliness — because if one actually accepts religious silliness, its clear one doesn’t know how engage in primary-source research.
Go away Sir; life was already happening before you got here!! 🧙♂️
Orlando, William Dusenberry and I have been here a lot longer than you, and know a lot more about what it takes to stay here than you. If you don't like our style of ministering it is you sir, not us, who has a problem, and should question your own motives in being here. Not everyone is meant to be here. ULC has other minister blogs where you might fit in better. It takes a rare breed of cat to survive and succeed on this one. And we don't seek to run off those who came before us.
Very well said, William. It never fails to amaze me how many people are willing to believe in something that is clearly ridiculous. A giant magic sky daddy that grants wishes? Just look up people, he's not there.
Your all wrong and mislead by false prophets and or Christians that have completely muddied up whatever scriptural truth you thought you knew. Yes the romans/popes/catholics are to blame for a lot of this. The daughters of the church did the rest. Many roman/greek pagans and well pagans and heathens all together were into homosexuality, pedo, child sacrifice amounst other things. Early manuscripts outside of Bibles, religions and folk lore still say no man shall lie with another man as a woman, oddly enough not much about women doing the same. I would say probably because the early texts were more geared towards men. But, they do also say no man shall dress as a woman either, and as you guessed nothing for women dressing as men. In the early text of the Torah when talking about Man(Adam) it does imply before Eve it was nothing but trouble for man to be alone and almost implys that man was bisexual before woman was around. Like man was just trying to find a "helper" any where or any how he could...... In the Torah it talks about Noah being drunk and passed out in the tent after the flood; we remembered Ham did something in the kjv and was cursed. Well in the Torah the word that is used for nakedness is the word used for sexual(same for Lot and daughters in cave) so implied Ham actually did sexual stuff not just saw dads nakedness, and this is why he was cursed. And no Ham isn't of black decent like some supremacist like to say, he was of Egyptian. This was excluded from kjv or English versions along with other things that might give people a wrong idea. So there is that. The truth is God made man and woman, they were to become one flesh and be fruitful. But see there was that thing called sin that happened, continuously, all the time. So bad that there had to be a flood. Now either you've been under a rock for the past 45 years or you just don't care that actual scientist now say it would be plain stupid to think big bang or something just comes from nothing without something greater than us. Science will actually show you even more how powerful God is. And many scientists, physicist, engineers, etc all say God definitely exsist. Genesis talks about the so called big bang, out of nothingness- a void -boom it all was created from Him, snap of His fingers and wouldn't that be a big bang? Many scientist have found proof of a great flood, many artifacts of many things in the Bible and other geological sites. They also are saying carbon dating isnt accurate like we once thought, many of the dino skeletons(not all)we have are fakes or different things glued together, some of the chimp people they've found are also now being called fakes, along with the pig faced thing(was actual pig bones glued to humans, smh)because they are part glued together different bodies. So many things that science evo people once used to disprove God have now been proven fake as well and more evidence for God has been found. LOOK AROUND. The un-happy, lost, angry at God, blame God people always got something to say, I know I used to be one. They'll always point out the things they don't understand and have been misread or misrepresented to them and say this is why its fake or this is why Ill never follow. Or they point out all the fakes or the hurt and pain and say "see why would God let this or that happen"? But, they wont ever seek truth, and when they find lies they acept that as truth. But if it isnt love if it isnt hope its not from God. Why would you just want to be a fun bag and then worm food? Wouldnt you want something greater?
Many stories from all these other religions are similar. So we can all say wow, maybe there is something to this. And if you read the Bible and study it you will find that Tribes all were dispersed and went all over, not just Bethlehem hahah. So all these different Bibles, Books, Scriptures, Religions, cave drawings, stories, whatever, are all talked about and shared and have similar stories meaning probably one Big Something Greater than us made us all, I call Him God. Not to mention there are at least 500 witnesses to Jesus resurrection, and historians outside of the Bible or even a Christian faith that seen Him and His disciples and call Him the Christ. Yes many false Christians or prophets are mean or hateful and have dirtied the faith, but He also said that would happen. He also said they would change times and laws and nobody questions why the Sabbath was changed to Sunday they just follow the traditions of men along with other weird holidays they create, just as He said not to do. But also they killed Him so why would anyone who actually loves Him(Jesus)- follow them anyway? Weird. Truth be told there is a God, the one and only true God. The Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the only answer. He said all this would happen and how many would turn away. We need to actually read, not just the Bible. But the history and the history of the church and why they didn't want anyone reading it. Martin Luther and the reformation shook things up, but after they killed all that followed, nobody even cares much and they follow right back to the same old ways. Praying to statues, priest, rosarys, flags, incense, idols,gold, penance,money, dead, etc many lies yes, all from the mother church and now mostly accepted by the daughters as well. Satan has used them to turn those away from the Father. And it's working, the god of this world has turned many of you away. With hate, division, misunderstanding, heracy, hypocrisy, etc. He works all sides because he is the god of this world, walking all about to a fro.(see Job) much misrepresented gospel from false teachers also has turned many of God' children away or made them believe whatever tickles the ears. And then the rest can be done by pleasures of this world. Many will hate and say I'm a fool, but Jesus said that would happen. I pray for you all.
“ So all these different Bibles, Books, Scriptures, Religions, cave drawings, stories, whatever, are all talked about and shared and have similar stories meaning probably one Big Something Greater than us made us all, I call Him God. ”
So because the development consciousness in early man manifested itself through a desire to understand things (which would be evolutionarily advantageous) and combined with an understanding of cause and effect (pet a tiger—>die) led to them all to explain things they couldn’t understand with gods (Zeus et al) THEREFORE…. they must be right. Rather than that’s just an erroneous assumption made by scientifically ignorant pre-humans?
Yeah, you run with that. That’s the basis for belief that most religious people are able to use successfully in justifying their stupidity. Mommy, Daddy and Uncle Billy Joe.
I didn't know anyone ever actually read the bible. I heard it was good for an ecclesiastical high, so I assumed that meant to use it for rolling papers, so that's what I usually do with it. However, I don't think I've ever gotten more of a buzz from those pages than other rolling papers, and it doesn't make good napkins, and is not nearly as soft on my back side as Charmin, so the best I can figure it's totally useless. And as bad as it is for those things, it must be just as bad to read it, and I wouldn't think of wasting my time on such nonsense. I pity those of you who do otherwise.
It’s a crying shame you felt the need to post such a derogatory post. You don’t have to believe, but you don’t have to trash the bible, simply because you don’t believe it. Your post is immature and childish at best and shows your level of intelligence, which is low in my opinion. Could have given an adult version of how you feel rather than what you posted.
Thank you for the prayers and back at you. Lol But there is no Satan. That is another church fabrication. All these deeds being done that you mentioned are on the people committing those acts. Which ever ones may be hiding behind some "Satan" or voices or whatever are either trying for the "devil made me do it" defense or have some sort of mental illness.
It was not lost in a mistranslation. It was either copied incorrectly or done on purpose.
I am sure if it was a big deal, Jesus would have mentioned it.
Exactly! He would have mentioned it on the Sermon on the Mount. The fact that he didn't mention it, or condemn slavery, or stoning people to death, or crucifixion, obviously means he was totally ok with it. Weird type of attributes for a savior, but I'm sure his dad was okay with it. 🤷🏼
All books of religion,manuscripts,writings,carvings,etc... have their good points and bad points...no one religion is right or wrong or is it "The Religion of God" whatever you believe in is what you have been raised on and does not mean you have been taught wrong... nobody really knows the truth...even though some think they do ... so be it... as long as you know the difference between good and bad, right and wrong, good and evil .just know one thing ALL love conquers all!!
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Let us now meditate with the Desiderata to come to unity in our diversity :-)
I have spoken to a few people here in response to their post. All my subsequent posts to others are gone. If we are to have a conversation going on why would our comments be removed. I remember I was answering questions. I wasn’t rude, in fact no one was rude. Why have these posts of how we feel about a subject for your responses to be taken away. All I have of myself is my original post. All the people who asked me questions and I responded and on and on is gone. That tells me this isn’t worth sharing my opinion. I was having. All of them gone. Theirs too, not just me. Wow. I’m done talking in these posts. Not when you are removed and not told why. There was no fighting by anyone. We were just talking.
I’m so disappointed.
As the beginning Bible creation process, "Catholics" chose the "books" for inclusion and tossed others out during an era in which only wealthy men could read and write, to produce one book to be the basis of their "new religion". Even fewer could read and write in multiple languages, so there should be no surprise that a particularly "hateful" definition was chosen concerning particular sexual activities not related to child production. Since entire family fortunes followed "the rightful aire", this is a subject of great concern that only the woman might have known., if not annebriated. Yet even the old testament is filled with stories of lies and betrayals that still become leaders of God's chosen people. So Creating a religion in which the men Were the only Priests and denied sexual pleasures. Really? Sexual pleasures between a male and a female could produce an offspring... Proof of infidelity... This sets up a platform for alternative solutions. The worst of which involves young male children which could be easily dispatched for telling the truth. A sad product of the slip of tongue wordology to hide the truth of sexual desires in a new religion
I’ve been informed, by one of my fellow ULC clergy — who doesn’t have a ULC DD, as do I, that “ghost” (according to the dictionary) and “spirit” mean the same thing— but anyone with common sense knows that they are not one and the same thing,
Ghosts can be seen; spirits can’t.
One doesn’t even need a DD to be aware of this obvious difference.
When you say "ULC DD" do you mean that piece of paper you can buy here on the site for $19.99?
Ghosts and spirits are the same as far as they are energy. What is different is the Holy Ghost/Spirit. He can't be seen. I don't know why. Perhaps the stain of sin? Perhaps he requires blind Faith. You don't need eyes to see him. In his presence every single part of your body feels him before you eyes even see his divine figure/energy.
Interesting. Like anything else, a large part depends on interpretation. In my own experience I saw my father after he passed. Woke me up out of a good sleep when my bedroom door opened and there he stood. I was very surprised and in shock to say the least. I was told later that he came just to let me know he made it across ok and is fine. Would some call him a "ghost" or visitation of my deceased father's spirit? In the end, it doesn't matter to me. I am just glad he is Home and at peace.
humerus. we have a bunch of people trying so hard to claim the bible is wrong and failing time and time again
Leviticus 20:13 already said and so it shall be done
The "Old Testament's" only purpose is to show how the prophecies were fulfilled. NO Christian is to follow any of that as the Christ came to create a New Covenant. To put the "old law" behind and create a new.
Leviticus 22: You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. This is not one word mistranslated.
Right, we can't retranslate Leviticus 20:13 but it was okay to condone divorce by reinterpreting or simply, ignoring, Malachi 2:16? It is okay to ignore "Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material", Leviticus 19:19? Eating pork? Leviticus 11:27, can't eat it “because it parts the hoof but does not chew the cud". Pretty sure we are no longer cutting of women's hands, Deuteronomy 25:11-12. Slavery, Leviticus 25:44-46? Stoning rebellious son's to death, Leviticus 25:44-46? Disabilities, Leviticus 21:17-23? Seriously, the list of biblical rules and laws ignored or reinterpreted today goes on and on and on. And, if it was such a sin, why wasn't it in the 10 commandments? Seriously, the most profound sin didn't even make it into the top 10?
So when has truth and acceptance ever been a part of xtianity?
I suppose we will know the truth when our lord and savior Jesus Christ returns on that glorious day.
I agree with the corrected translation. God doesn't make junk, and I believe homosexuals are wired differently; I believe someone, someday, will discover a gene that explains it. I also agree that the translation indicating that the word should be child sexual abusers should not enter Heaven.
There is only one God; all religions worship Him. The choice of how He is worshipped is ours, and we should accept all religions that worship Him.
Approximately 10% of any chicken flock is Gay. Roosters will sit on nests and hens try to crow. This is true for many animals. A natural happening.
Very interesting! I can't wait to check out the film. I, myself, have struggled as both a Christian and a person who has many LGTBQ+ friends... and always felt that God would never judge people over something as harmless as who they feel attraction towards. To me, it's the same as ethnicity having no relationship to love.... You fall in love with who you fall in love with; end of story. So why would it be any different for LGTBQ+ folks? If an act is is caused by LOVE, and "God IS Love", then how can there be any sin in loving who you love?
This re-translation of The Apostle Paul definitely makes more sense, in my mind. Simply because of what the author stated: when talking about an abuser... these are acts NOT performed out of Love. When there is a victim, there is sin, because we are not "loving others as we would love ourselves."
Who they feel attraction to? Wow that was sanitized. Men put their penis in a rectum that's an unclean area. Exit for our feces. That's not an attraction. That's a disgusting act. Sorry you don't view it realistically.
So presumably a woman licking a vagina is okay, assuming the vagina is clean (and because the bible says nothing against cunnilingus. Oh, but for that matter, if a man has colonic irrigation before engaging in anal sex then it's not unclean, and therefore not disgusting.
Hello Clay, it is true that there was a hospitality issue in Sodom, but that is not the reason for its destruction. If we go back to where Abraham is speaking with the Lord on His way to destroy Sodom, we can see that Sodom was destroyed because there were no righteous people there. Sodom is used as an example of what times will be like in the end of times, where Lott and his family escaped the destruction, which is an example of the rapture/calling up, then total destruction. In Jude 1:7 it seems that sexual sin is a large portion of their unrighteousness and also seems to be ever-increasing in our age.
I believe you (like so many) have a backwards interpretation of the "Rapture". The Good and Holy will NOT be "taken" during the Second Coming. The real presence of GOD will be unfamiliar to those who are not followers, and their physical bodies will not be able to contain HIS presence and they will disappear. Those who follow GOD, will remain to fight Satan. It makes no sense for the evil ones who have turned away from GOD would be enlisted to fight Satan. The reward for the good and faithful will be to fight Satan directly not be whisked away unfettered. What a great honor.
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All of these comments do nothing to grow the gospel. If everyone that claims to be a follower of Christ would put forth the same effort to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ as they have on this translation discussion there would be a massive revival across America and the world. Stop the bickering and tell people about the saving grace of Jesus Christ.
The word "homosexual," like "heterosexual," was created in 1868. As such, how could any Bible or biblical text written over two thousand years condemn something that, label-wise, didn't exist? What the writers of the Bible were 'condemning' were the Greek and Roman ways of life --- multitheism and hedonism. Unlike when I went through Sex Ed in the late 1960s and early 1970s --- when boys and girls were separated and taught about sex by same gender teachers --- the Greeks and Romans had a more 'active' and, forgive the unintended pun, hands-on (aka "physical") approach. Since this shocked the sensibilities of the then Jews/Christians, those men (and women) writing the Word of God chose to condemn those practices. If I remember correctly, there's only one place in the Bible that really "warns" against same gender intimacy. Though a picture may be worth a thousand words and the pen mightier than the sword, words, just like sticks and stone, can hurt; especially when used to bully, intimidate, and mislead the gullible. Very much like propaganda.
lol all thse funny names we give to allow people to do what they do, lets see !: the first christan bible was put together by some guy named Constetine <?> called The Gutinburg bible<?> because it was first printed on the gutinbue<?> ink press it was infact a death sentence to trans late it and any langues until King Henery the 8th did it for his own needs and the English Church, then down the line King James changed it again .. ya the version they use now. The new Test vs the old (written by moses and his crew) and why is the word Sodomy (The destruction of Sodom and gimorea) use for the sexual act witch the Gay community fight for so much and if you disagree with the the LGBTQ community community they have words for you like homophobe and god help you if you reply with anti heteral sectual remarks .Do you reall believe the Lord God Almighty cares (I dont) They still kill the LGBTQ all over the world. Who is right ,,, who is wrong...it all depends who is in power but the LGBTQ comunity cause its own problems by publitic attacking people who disagree with them . and really GOD DOES NOT CARE he just waits for you death and he will sort it out
Here is modern English : Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor passive homosexual partners, nor homosexuals.
Satan changed the word of God also ! Sorry the word of God is not for anyone's personal interpretation, it interprets itself and it wasn't written by men, Holy men of God wrote as God told them by direct revelation....That's a big diff folks. Here is your appendix;
“sexually immoral.” The Greek is pornos (#4205 πόρνος), which is a masculine noun and technically refers to a man who is sexually immoral or a male prostitute. However, the masculine form was used in a broad sense that included sexually immoral women. A female prostitute or a sexually immoral woman was a pornē (#4204 πόρνη), but whereas the masculine form was used to include women, the feminine form was not generally used to include men. In early Greek, pornos and pornē referred much more specifically to prostitutes and prostitution. Greek (and Roman) morals were much looser than Christian morals, and so, for example, in both Greece and Rome slaves were the sexual property of whoever owned them, and a slave owner having sex with a slave was not only overlooked, it was pretty much expected. By the time of Christ, and especially in the Christian world, the words, and the neuter noun porneia, were not just used of prostitution but of sexual immorality in general.
“adulterers.” The Greek word is moichos (#3432 μοιχός ), and it refers to someone who is married but having sexual intercourse with someone other than his or her spouse. In the Old Testament, and in both the secular Greek and Roman world, the definition of adultery was different. In the Old Testament, “adultery” properly referred to a married or betrothed woman having sexual intercourse with someone other than her husband. The Greek, Roman, and Hebrew concept of adultery was substantially the same, the infidelity of the husband did not constitute adultery. The New Testament specifically commands that each man and woman is to have his or her “own” spouse, and thus the New Testament definition of adultery is narrower than the Old Testament definition, including any married person having intercourse with someone other than his or her spouse. The world and its evil forces want to discount the evil in adultery, so it is called “an affair,” cheating” or “indiscretion,” as if it were no big deal. But it is a big deal, and God has always firmly commanded that people do not commit adultery. Verses forbidding it are in the Old Testament (Exod. 20:14, etc.), the Gospels (Mark 10:19, etc.), and in the Church Epistles (Rom. 13:9, etc.).
“passive homosexual partners.” The Greek is malakos (#3120 μαλακός), and it literally means “soft” or “soft to the touch.” Although it had other uses such as “soft clothing,” it was the standard word in the Greek language for the “passive” one in the homosexual relation. In the Greco-Roman world, the “passive” partner was often a youth, and so, for example, the New American Bible says “boy prostitutes,” but malakos is general enough to refer to the passive person in the relationship. The masculine form of the Greek is used, but as it is used in this context it would also refer to the passive partner in a lesbian relationship.
“homosexuals.” The Greek is arsenokoitēs (#733 ἀρσενοκοίτης), which is from arsen, “male,” and koite, “bed,” and describes a man who “beds” another man, i.e., a homosexual. Although arsenokoitēs is sometimes used in a wide sense referring to all homosexuality, it also had a narrower sense, referring to the one who took the dominant or “male” role in the homosexual relation. Because 1 Corinthians 6:9 also specifically refers to the malakos, the use of arsenokoitēs in this verse refers to the dominant homosexual.
God created the human race with two sexes, male and female (Gen. 5:2), and designed them to be together and to have families, and the family was designed to be the stable center of God’s human society. The “natural use” sexually, of the man is with a woman and vice-versa (Rom. 1:26). As this list in 1 Corinthians shows (and it is quite limited), godly human sexual behavior has been under attack since Genesis. The list in 1 Corinthians 6 starts with “sexual immorality,” which is a very broad category and covers many sexual behaviors that are sinful, and then the list gives a few specific sins under the broad category of sexual immorality, including adultery and homosexual behavior. Homosexual and lesbian relationships are sinful in the eyes of God, as is adultery and other acts that defy, ignore, or destroy the centrality of the God-designed human family. (Other verses that mention homosexuality are Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, and Romans 1:24-27).
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Go back to where Jesus lived all females had one child each year rather they liked it or not.That child would work the fields, herd animals, catch fish from the time they started to walk. Females got pregnant from the time they had their first period to the day they died usually in child birth. Armies do not march without men to march and females provided those numbers.
Still like that in many countries and religions today.
To everyone here and outside the thread...
No matter what religion you are with, GOD IS GOD...You believe in God, You live according to Gods (WORD). You will reap with fulfilment and love from GOD... Simple...
So stop judging other religions of who is right and who is wrong, because GOD IS GOD...no matter which religion...
If "People" are going to have Homosexual tendencies, and If it is really an Abomination then GOD will sort them out, just as he will sort out the Murderers, child molesters, ect...If your your living pure of heart, you can see the bad ways and if your living in the non pure way, you should repent and ask for forgiveness
I know alot of people cannot believe in what all the bibles say, and because of the rewrite of it many many times over. All you have to do is believe in God, He will set you free
Genesis says God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Evan. Jesus was not asked about gay marriage because it was understood that marriage was for having and raising children.
Actually, god created Adam and Lilith but she mouthed off so god replaced her with Eve.
I believe that God wanted Lilith to return to Adam, but she refused. So God had to make Eve. I wonder, if Adam could have accepted Lilith as she was and did not demand she be subservient, would the fall have happened? This question assumes the fall did happen.
I would guess that it would all have depended on whether Lilith gave into temptation.
So god messed up by creating Adam, who couldn't deal with a strong woman.
Rev. B, I heard Lilith & Eve were a hot number, whenever Adam left her for Steve.
Even if they did make it error and translate to Bible wrong stating about homosexuality in Corinthians saying it's just a sin but God clearly states clearly in Leviticus 19 that man shall not sleep with man and woman should not sleep with woman for it is an abomination God clearly states this so homosexuality is not just a sin it's an abomination and it should not be practiced at all and that's God's word and that is a true translation of any Scripture Leviticus 19 homosexuality being gay men want to sleep with another man and woman wanting to sleep with another woman it's an abomination and there's only very few places in the entire Bible where God considers something as an abomination and that is one of them the very top one
Doesn't say anything about women. Go back and read it again. I'm not pro gay I'm just pro factual.
Leviticus wasn't "written by God" but by man.
Here is the literal translation of I Cor. 6:9 from the YLT version (Young's Literal Translation):
"have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,"
For those of you that do not understand words, "sodomites" are men who have sex with men. We see them at Sodom and Gomorrha in the Old Testament as well.
Here is another literal translation of I Cor. 6:9, this one from Kenneth S. Wuest's translation of the New Testament:
"Or do you not know that unrighteous individuals will not inherit God's kingdom? Stop being deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor those who are of a voluptuous nature, given to the gratification of sensual, immoral appetites, neither men who are guilty of sexual intercourse with members of their own sex, nor thieves, nor those who are always greedy to have more than they possess, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit God's kingdom."
For those of you that do not understand words, the phrase "men who are guilty of sexual intercourse with members of their own sex" is the definition of "homosexuals".
You can try to wriggle out of this but I am here to warn you, Repent of Your Sin.
That goes for all you fornicators too. Sex outside of marriage (between one man and one woman) is sin. Period.
How can you have two "literal" translations that aren't identical? At least one of them isn't a literal translations.
You people will stop at nothing. Your sick, I don’t want to be associated with you any longer.
Here we go changing the rules as the race changes. Same crap different day. So just because some idiot says this one interpretation means it’s ok to be gay the whole world has to accept that. Hogwash!!!
I have three different bibles before 1946.. two were translated and printed in1888.. the second in 1905.. and they say the same thing in my 2012 Bible.. we have become a society of changing the past to what we want it to say… interpretations are just that… instead of changing the past to what we want it to be.. how about taking the good and build on it.. and the bad and learn from it so it doesn’t keep happening.. if you choose to be gay.. that’s your choice and no one of you believe in God has the right to judge you or tell you what they think.. God will tell you what he thinks when we stand before him. I have never read anywhere in the Bible where it says GOD HATES anyone.. again .. interpreted by the individuals..
Maybe you should re-read the original comment. We are not discussing problems with reprints of the same interpretation of the bible.
I have three different bibles before 1946.. two were translated and printed in1888.. the second in 1905.. and they say the same thing in my 2012 Bible.. we have become a society of changing the past to what we want it to say… interpretations are just that… instead of changing the past to what we want it to be.. how about taking the good and build on it.. and the bad and learn from it so it doesn’t keep happening.. if you choose to be gay.. that’s your choice and no one of you believe in God has the right to judge you or tell you what they think.. God will tell you what he thinks when we stand before him. I have never read anywhere in the Bible where it says GOD HATES anyone.. again .. interpreted by the individuals..
The problem is not what’s written in the book; the issue is a transcription problem_ To say the Bible is maleable is to say, “You May as well throw it out-the-window”, so it either is, or isn’t true. We can’t ignore the Old-Testament, and before you get in a Hoot, let me speak my mind. First mistake made by populace is the general idea, that when referring to man, it is a sweeping statement across the board including women, which is false. So when the Bible iteration of early on mentioned that no man lay with another man, like with a woman, you have to take in consideration the appropriate context, in lieu of the fact that was no t.v. for instance. The context is clear that it is making a statement about public display of sex; nobody in their right mind had a public police system to retribute against people hiding in their privacy doing whatever it is that people do, so guess, you couldn’t arrive at the assumption that because a man was effeminate, or showed any inclination of wanting to be with another man, that by proxy he was “sleeping” with another man. The instance here then, and in the context of criminal activity has to be indicative of rape against another man, boy, child, understanding that rape of woman was clearly defined as criminal, to include other crimes like incest, which by the way does not as a matter of fact include first cousins. You see my friends, you can’t tailor the book to fashion your ideology, you can’t say this is my right and this is your wrong, if homosexuality is not punishable, then neither is marrying a first cousin, or poligamy for that matter. You CANNOT SAY GOD SAID WHEN GOD DIDN’T SAY SO!! 😇😇😇😇😇😇😇
What 1 Corinthians 6:9 means, NON BELIEVERS will not enter into the kingdom of heaven. As it is written, Jesus said, "Where I go you cannot come." Those who don't abide in the Life or keep His word, will not enter the kingdom of God.
Stacey, some of us don't want to go to christian heaven. It seems like a very dreary place. It's much nicer in the Summerland, and all you have to do to get there is go to the other side of the light. You don't have to be good to go there, and there is no condemnation.
Christ is the life. The kingdom of God is in you. The flesh (you) profits nothing.
Stacey, Christ doesn't have any life, but has been dead for a very long time. Don't you think it's about time you got over it? Life is for the living. Let the dead bury the dead.
Did you read that somewhere, Stacey?
Here’s a Novell idea: Stop reading the Bible horizontally, and begin reading it Vertically!! 😇😇😇😇😇😇😇
Orlando, here's a novel idea: Stop reading the Bible completely. There are zillions of other much more interesting books you can read.
I have noticed that a lot of you are going down the rabbit hole. Worring about what year a book was published or what language it is in. Stop, take a moment and read, my collection of books is written down in what we call the King James Bible, it was wrote by more than 140 different authors within 1500 years and is the complete collection of inspired words of God. The original text was written in Hebrew was collaborated on and transcribed into Greek, late in time it went into German which gave the first collected print later still was translated into many different languages including English. The KJB is the only Bible in English to use, all the others take words and even entire verses away changing the meaning to what was wrote. Now that that is out of the way lets read Gods word and learn. Go to Romans 1:25 - 32, "25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie," This is talking about men changing things. '26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:" Self-explanatory, I think. "27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." Now you can see here that both women amen have been implicated to be in what our language would call Homosexual, no matter what you call it, label it or use it in a sentence the meaning is clear. "28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;" Do you see this, this right here is what will condemn you to the second death. Just because you want something to be a certain way to fit your need or your desire doesn't mean that it will. If I say go down the rocky path to the right and you go left because it is smoother don't mean you, did it right. "29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." After all this see what God has said, "are worthy of death", don't take that wrong it don't mean to kill everyone like that, it means that you are worthy of the second death. Please learn how to read first before jumping to conclusions. Thank you for reading, my hope is that you don't get mad at me but to take away something good for your life.
William, when done in the right way, don't you think that sinning, as christians call it, can be a lot of fun? Go ahead and do it. He'll forgive you. That's the christian way.
wow, not blaming no one. didn't i read he made woman for man? this sin of pleasure has been going on for awhile. The Flesh!
The only person who I ever heard made a woman for a man was Dr. Victor Frankenstein. And I don't think she turned out exactly the way he planned, but the monster man he made her for didn't seem to mind. I've also heard they've been happily married for nearly a hundred years, and are still going strong. They only need to be struck by an occasional lightning bolt to replenish them.
Can pure, true love, where the other person is always put first ever be wrong? I think not.
It's despicable that these people that call themselves Christians are full of so much hate; cultured ignorance just like our politics
Mistranslation or not it is still child abuse just as much or more so then the child abuse of heteros do. More so maybe because worse. Because it makes the children have mental illness.
Mistranslation or not it is still child abuse just as much or more so then the child abuse of heteros do. More so maybe because worse. Because it makes the children have mental illness.
Mary had a little lamb, little lamb, little lamb. Mary had a little lamb. It's fleece was white as snow. Don't snort that snow, Mary. Masturbation might cause warts, but sodomy between two men won't cause mental illness. Love between them won't do it iether. Only humping their ears, clear through to the other side could do that.
I thank you my good brothers & sisters of the ULC for telling me I have a right to be here! To what that was in response to really cracked me up, and I bet it did the same thing for y'all too. I'd really like to see y'all post that one.
I looked in my Scofield reference Bible printed in 1917. I also looked in my King James Bible printed in 1975. Neither of them has the word homosexual. Please read Genesis 1:27. God created man and women, not man and man. Now read Leviticus 18:22. Sexual relations between man and man, or women and women is abomination.
...Judge not that thee be not judged. Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love; but the greatest of these is love. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Love thy neighbor as thy self. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord.
How can anyone cherry pick the bible? How can contempt for those god created be a part of the belief that is based on love. Your Christ said:..Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.
Christians today just don't realize they are lost in the desert worshiping a golden calf.
Not everyone has the ears to hear. God has given you the freedom to believe what you will. It surprises me how vindictive some people are with their comments. Especially those who on one hand support their right to a viewpoint yet chastise others for theirs.
If you don't believe in the saving nature of Jesus Christ. Fine. If you don't believe that God exists. Fine. As for me, I do. Although my studies in Theology have only given me more questions, I leave God's plans to God. I accept his will.
To me it's a matter of Faith, Repentance and Grace. I am a Sinner and I repent and try to do better. Others Sin and decide to celebrate it. Their choice. God's will be done.
There are so many different versions and translations of the Bible. And there are as many different denominations and nondenominational churches in the U.S.A. Now maybe I'm reading the Gospel, the words the Lord Jesus Christ seems to of said. The Church is One Body . What also happened to Love Thy Neighbor As Thy Self. Before people go on a Witch Hunt to hurt our Neighbor because of a mistranslation . We need to good after countless Child Molester's male and female that break a child's spirit, soul and body and blame the child for being molested because they didn't keep Quiet about who was touching them. I know all to well how that Rip's a child apart. I WAS a Victim of this horrible abuse as a child and back then no one would listen. Praise God now people do listen. I forgave my molester before she died and she said now I can go to heaven. May God have given my Nana rest. I am here for anyone who have difficulties with what I've posted. Just because someone preaches something out of the Bible does not mean it came from Gods word. Rev. Trish Hughes
I suppose it depends on what you as an individual believes. Personally, I try not to get overly tied down on one word and minutia of interpretation (versions dialects). The old testament was written in Aramaic and Hebrew and the New in Aramaic, Koine Greek, Hebrew and if you're Catholic Latin.
I suppose what counts for me is the essence of the multitude of the messages written. Many would agree with your viewpoint that Love is a key. In this, we should not condemn or ridicule others for the perceived sins they commit. It is for God's judgement not man's. We should not however, condone it.
The message I read is to love and forgive the trespasses others commit. Salvation is (as a Christian) through confessing one's sins, repentance and the Grace of Christ. I do not condemn anyone, but I do not condone and support sinners sinning as a lifestyle choice and who celebrate in their sin.
All sin is wrong and by my understanding the Bible states homosexuality is a sin. For it to be forgiven, their must be repentance like any other transgression. Personally I admit to many and try to do better. It's a work in progress. :-)
Homosexuality is not a sin and I got some Ocean Front Property in ARIZONA... lol
Since you're in Arizona, Sneathern - I'm sure you and the other Trumpist liars, criminals, hypocrites and anti-American morons have plenty of "Ocean front" properties for sale to unsuspecting, decent human beings. Try looking up the Hebrew for the word "sin." I know that this will be news for the likes of you, but Jesus was not only a Jew, but a Rabbi. He spoke Hebrew - not a word of English. So, sadly for ignorant mopes like you - Jesus never used the word "sin" - in fact. That word did not exist at the time. The writers of the "new" testament, a gang of drunken, boy-loving monks (centuries after the death of Christ) at the first council of Nicaea (325 A.D.) invented and inserted a latin 'translation' of the original Hebrew "טעות" which means "Mistake." Editing, twisting, eliminating and mistranslating 600 books to suit their political game (dictated by Constantine) then gets passed off - to this day - as "The Word of God." It isn't.
Same happened with Mary M. Not all that surprised.
Being a christian requires having faith in GOD!!
Like air is real but you cant see it, so is the LORD! Some he makes his presence known others he is simply just there for them and they can feel his presence.
Being a believer and spreading the word on how Great he is can surly show you are a christian. I think anyone has the right to believe and spread the word no matter your sexual preference. I believe GOD loves us all.
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17 NIV https://matthew.bible/matthew-5-17 “ ‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. Leviticus 20:13 NIV https://leviticus.bible/leviticus-20-13
It is all about Christ, his life and teachings are well documented. As to the text of the many versions of the Bible, I can only suggest that mistranslation is of course possible. As to the people of the lgbtq+ community, the most visible members of that community seem to feel it is necessary to perform (I do mean perform), the most offensive public displays of what should be private moments, with their consenting partner. Like they what happens in the bedroom, stays in the bedroom. Once you show no respect for your partner, no respect for your shared intimacies, no respect for your fellow citizens. Then why would you be upset if those who do not share you vision of acceptable social behavior. Respect is not just given. It must be earned as a shared social construct.
the sodomites are mentioned as debased many times in the bible including in the earlier ethiopian more complete version that james didnt doctor- the talmudic old testament text is shown as using the showing of the god reversed satan as a way to trick men in the descriptions and the basis of mk ultra mind splitting to allow demons in is sodomy so there is no way god or any good man or woman would agree to that!!!!!
In my opinion, God decides what is and is not sinful during our final judgment. Until then I will have my opinion of what is and is not sinful and I will live my life accordingly. I know right from wrong. How many people know without being told, it is a sin to steal or murder but use their free will to decide what they will do or not do? My sense of what is right and wrong controls only my behavior. What is or is not a sin to God, as written in any version of the Bible, are facts we cannot be sure of during life. Although we are entitled to our opinion about anything we are not entitled to our own facts, as if God told us directly, whether written in a book or not. God's commandment to humans is to love and serve each other. Judgment, vengeance and reward is for God.
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Ya know, if you read the Gospels, you should detect that there is a certain drift to them. They're a bit more toward being kind to people and not judging them and not so much about persecuting them. This stuff about homosexuality is a great example of how we use religion to act out on our worst instincts while giving it all a righteous gloss. This, of course, is nothing new, it's a little hard to detect the teachings of Jesus in the Spanish Inquisition.
As Christians, we need to tell those who choose this way, that it is a sin to live that way and they need to repent for that sin and live the way God wants us to live.
By now, it has become completely clear that sexual orientation is not a choice but something you are born with. We might just as well declare that having blue eyes is sinful.
Read Leviticus, before you commit a sin. Many people don't like to follow the old testament, but Jesus did. He makes a statement in Matthew 5:17 "“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. 19So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 “But I warn you—unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven!.
It's not about whether or not the word homosexual was mistranslated. The homosexual community is all about subterfuge. The alphabet people are making a "to do" about an alleged mistranlation to lead the vapid masses away from the truth of Leviticus which states clearly [though I'm paraphrasing] that a man who lays with another man as he would a woman is an ABOMINATION and both shall be put to death with their blood on their own hands so mistranslation or not of the word homosexual aside, COMMITTING homosexual acts is an ABOMINATION in the eyes of the lord and those who commit these acts are to be put to death and it is their OWN FAULT when they are put to death FOR committing the abominable act we are warned NOT TO COMMIT! There is no logical, realistic argument for homosexuality that can make it "ok" or normalize it. Theirs is a perverse sexual fringe group based in lust which IS A SIN leading to their committing abominable sex acts that they are to be put to death for committing. PERIOD. Whether the proper name for their group was mistranslated or not, the sex they engage in is an unrepentantly unholy unclean act deserving DEATH as its punishment with no redemption thus hell is the destination of their unclean soul! FULL STOP! There is no arguing the semantics of that. Once the homosexual ACT itself has been committed, there is no repentance, they've SEALED THEIR FATE at that point, if they only THINK ABOUT COMMITTING THE ABOMINABLE ACT and DO NOT PHYSICALLY COMMIT IT, they can repent and be saved however once the act is committed THATS IT, ITS OVER, DEATH IS the punishment they deserve and they've brought it upon themselves! This cannot be misinterpreted IN ANY WAY! IT IS SPELLED OUT VERY CLEARLY. The homosexual community will go to any length to justify their deviant behavior which is indefensible. What they choose to do is their own business HOWEVER forcing it on others crosses every line and must not be tolerated or allowed.
Ok, so if this happened in the 1940's how did it superseded the previous translation...especially the KJV?
That is a serious "misinterpretation" that has been handed down from generation to generation. It more or less seems like someone had an issue with the idea of same sex couples and conveniently "misinterpreted" what the bible actually said. My question is how many people will change their view and their treatment of these people?
Matthew 15:19, Mark 7:21-22 condemn fornication and "the works of the flesh." Whether heterosexual or homosexual, fornication was definitely condemned by Jesus Christ.
Matthew 15:19 and Mark 7:21-22 are the words of Christ and he condemns "fornication" which would include both heterosexual and homosexual activity. "The works of the flesh" have no proper place in the life of a true seeker of the One True God. Genesis 19:24 states "Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of Heaven." Jude 7 reads, in part, "giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE"(emphasis mine). Jude 18-19 reads,"How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit(of Truth). Whether one is hetero or homo, we still need to repent before our Creator.
Why? Because the word HOMOSEXUAL isn’t used?
Leviticus 18:22, Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, that is detestable.
Love thy neighbor as thyself. Respect all. God made all the people. Judging anyone is a useless pursuit. Don't punish those who love. Never trust those who hate.
Is there any demonstrable evidence that any god is real….even yours? Just asking for a friend.
Not to you Sir; your eyes, ears and heart appear to be closed to the Spirit.
Perhaps you have some demonstrable evidence as to what a spirit truly is, before you make a statement saying I am closed to the spirit.
What does it mean that eyes are closed to a spirit? There are people that have tried to see “spirits”, but no one has ever recorded any…..whatever they are 🤷🏼
Is it possible you have been indoctrinated into beliefs, with no evidence to support them?
Thank you for your comments.
Yes, I have personal experience with the Holy Spirit. Enough to prove to me God's existence and his involvement in my life.
I've studied many religious beliefs at university and have spoken with people of different faiths. What a person believes to be self-evident is a result of personal experience and decision. The decision process is difficult if that person harbors personal bias on the topic.
Existence in many ways is a mystery. I don't know anyone who claims to be all knowing or has an answer to every question.
I can no more prove to you that God exists any more than I can prove to you that love exists. To believe either, you must have personal experience and an open heart and mind. A failure to do so does not mean that God and love don't exist, simply that I can't prove it to you. Personally, I strongly believe in both.
Have a pleasant day.
Thank you, Earl. In reality, what you have experienced is an emotional feeling that you have decided, with no supporting evidence, that’s it’s the “Holy Spirit”. People do this when being filled with euphoria, such as going to a Beatles concert for the very first time back in the 60’s, and passing out because of the euphoria.
Listening to someone they revere such as a Minister, a lover, a Rock star, reading a book classic, or a poem, nature, all gives them good feelings of euphoria.
If that euphoric feeling happens to be religiously based, people attribute that feeling to the “Holy Spirit”. It’s one and the same feeling. I know, because I’ve been there, and convinced myself it was something different, something divine, because I wanted it to be. I eventually had to realize, if I was honest with myself, it was simply a euphoric feeling. Possibly no different than my dog feels every time he sees me.
Happy New Year.
That is (predictably) your opinion. I happen to disagree,
It's too bad I couldn't sit down with you to hear more about your experience and share some of my own. We likely both have good reasons for our positions on this matter.
Have a good day.
It’s good that we all have experiences isn’t it, and make determinations from those experiences?
It’s my belief (dare I use that word 🤭) that we should use logic, reason, and critical thought, to determine truth from all of life's experiences.
I have witnessed too many people suffering from RTS (Religious Trauma Syndrome) from a variety of faiths, including Christianity, to ever consider going back to being involved with any religious cult.
You too have a good day 🤗
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God is the judge and he can only can Judge his people, however the book of revelation state's that a man that lives as a women are full of trouble and days are number: However we are dealing with a forgiving God and his love do not have know title he love us all, gays are striaghts black are white I dont agree with gay life stly but i respect it because it's alot behide it all. God teaches me every thing mostly is a sin in God eye sight however Jesus paid the price for our sin's however God will have the last say so.
Ministry: J. R. russell
Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
1 Corinthians 12:10
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
“It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live, remember that.”
Dumbledore. from Harry Potter
That is a matter of perspective. What you believe to be dreams for me is a proven reality. All we know is what we choose to accept as truth; remember that.
Where does the sun go at night? I can't say, as I don't know from my personal experience. I can only relate what I'm told. I can chose to accept it or not.
As far as God's concerned, you seem to choose not to accept his existence because you don't have personal knowledge that he exists. You can't disprove it, but choose not to believe it. , Although many have told you he does.
On the other hand, you no doubt have accepted many things 'as fact' without the personal knowledge that they are true. You choose to believe what you've been told. It's interesting you choose to accept where the sun goes but not in God's existence.
Perhaps you might do a bit of research into the people that you believe have existed in the past and what they accomplished with their lives. People like Julius Caesar, Plato, Lincoln and Christ. Examine the documentary evidence of their deeds. Count the sources for each. I think that you will be astounded by the evidence.
You may still disbelieve the evidence of one with thousands of sources, but believe the one with only five. You're free to make that choice, however irrational.
I don’t accept the existence of any of the gods that mankind likes to believe in due to the lack of demonstrable evidence for any of them. It’s basically as simple as that, Earl. No matter how many people have written about them all, it doesn’t make any of them real.
There is still very little evidence that Jesus ever really existed, even though it’s possible someone like him did exist. All those that wrote about him were not contemporary to the time he lived, in other words, they never met him.
The things I do accept as fact, are things that have proven science, such as, where the sun goes at night, and is the world flat 🤭. I’m truly sorry if you find relying on factual evidence, and using logic and reason as being irrational.
I am curious though as to how you have decided other people’s gods that are worshipped on earth, are not real in your eyes, even though they have possibly applied similar “faiths”, and “feelings”, to determine their god is real.
You are right though when you say I can’t disprove the reality of your god, or of any god. I equally cannot disprove the existence of fairies, elves, or the Loch Ness Monster. 🤷🏼
Thank you for your comment.
We each decide as an individual the weight of the evidence. Our belief system is based on that decision. It's unfortunate that we don't always do our homework and measure validity before we pass judgement on what others believe. It's easy to be smug and offensive.
If one doesn't seek, they seldom will find. Personal bias is a hard thing to overcome. Alter-all it's much easier to just accept what's in vogue at the time. What we're being told as fact.
I'm sure that many Russians today accept Putin's truth as their own. Millions accept that they're fighting Nazis that attacked Russia. Finding out the truth is seldom easy.
II have studied many different religions over the years and spoken with those who have adopted it. I have chosen that many do not convince me as valid. That doesn't detract from those that have adopted it. Simply that it was not for me. I do not say anything negative about their choice. I have made mine and appreciate others showing me the same courtesy. There is no stupidity, no foolishness, simply the choice that should be respected.
God made man and woman don't mess with God if you boys want to jump into the sack together it really is a sin before Jesus he is destroyed entire cities because of homosexuality Don't Mess With God you can make up all the excuses you want and hide behind the woke way of life of today but God is awoke he only thinks one way you can't change his mind if you men want to sleep together you will s i n together and you will be judged by the Lord save yourself and save your soul if you don't like girls just don't do anything good luck boys
Not true, God Yahweh condemns homosexuality and lesbianism. God Yahweh condemns men from wearing women's clothes, and women from wearing men's clothes. Just because the word homosexuality isn't exactly in the bible, that doesn't mean that God Yahweh accepts the vile practice. A classic proof of this is Sodom and Gemorrah. The men of Sodom wanted to have sex with the angels. Sodom and Gemorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality, lesbianism, transgenderism, and so forth. God Yahweh condemns homosexuality.
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If you look back further than this possible mis-translation, you can find the Old Testament clearly states, without possibility of mis-translation, the condemnation of MALE homosexuality:
According to Leviticus 20:13: “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
It is notable that this does not include female homosexuality.
It’s also notable these stories and tales were from a book written, in some cases, by people who didn’t know where the sun went at night, and believed the sun and universe revolved around the earth. What could go wrong with their uneducated philosophy?🤷🏼
God-made man God-made woman. God did not make man to be with man or woman to be with woman. Men cannot have babies. How can you say when you believe in God if you want to mutilate your bodies. God-created you the way you are for a reason your journey is Find out what your purpose is. And trust me your purpose is not to mutilate your body. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed because that is a sin!!
There are also 1 in 1000 intersexed babies born in this world. 1 in a thousand children have both male and female genitalia and what happens in our western christian dominated culture is that a physician chooses for the family which sex the child shall be and the start of many surgeries throughout their childhood is commenced, instead of allowing the child to grow unaltered and authentic. Religious imposed shame has driven parents to hide this occurrence from the very children themselves and all relatives and friends. For all who doubt this or reject it on face value, please open your minds and research it yourselves in the name of truth and fact. Stop the harming of this incredibly large group of people by continuing the false hood that only two genders were “created by god” Someone above mentioned that we tend to repeat what we have been taught in churches and accept it as truth when in fact much isn’t.
Not sure who I am responding to, Lots of comments. This is to the person who said Medical Doctors choose the sex of the baby who are born with both genitalia I am in the medical field and have seen this. Physicians go to great lengths and chromosome testing, blood testing to find out which these babies are more male or female. The results are given to the parents and it is there decision with the information at hand to decide what they want..