It was supposed to be an exciting moment for Movita Johnson-Harrell, the first Muslim woman to be elected to the Pennsylvania state legislature. But the swearing-in ceremony was overshadowed by a peculiar introduction given by Rep. Stephanie Borowicz, who used her opening comments to give a long-winded prayer asking Jesus for forgiveness.
"God forgive us Jesus we've lost sight of you, we've forgotten you, God, in our country, and we're asking you to forgive us," Borowicz said. She then quoted a Bible verse imploring God's followers to "turn from their wicked ways."
As the invocation dragged on, Borowicz's colleagues in the House became noticeably uncomfortable. Finally, after more than a minute and a half of intense prayer, they were finally able to nudge her away from the
The incident left many shaking their heads in disgust. Critics called it an "Islamophobic display" that was clearly directed at Rep. Johnson-Harrell.
Using Jesus as a Weapon
The intent behind this rhetoric was not lost on Johnson-Harrell, who had invited 55 guests - 32 of whom were Muslim - to witness her swearing-in. "(It was) highly offensive to me, my guests, and other members of the House," she later told the Pennsylvania Capital-Star. "It blatantly represented the Islamophobia that exists among some leaders leaders that are supposed to represent the people."
Johnson-Harrell was not the only person to take umbrage with Borowicz' emotional and rambling address, which also included numerous references to "evil" and praised Jesus for President Trump and his standing "beside Israel unequivocally."
House Minority Whip Jordan Harris didn't mince words, insisting Borowicz had used her religion to "intimidate, demean and degrade" Johnson-Harrell. He continued:
"Let me be clear. I am a Christian. I spend my Sunday mornings in church worshiping and being thankful for all that I have. But in no way does that mean I would flaunt my religion at those who worship differently than I do. There is no room in our Capitol building for actions such as this, and it's incredibly disappointing that today's opening prayer was so divisive."
Claims of Innocence
However, Borowicz claims she did nothing wrong. "That's how I pray
Her defenders argue that Borowicz simply has a strong faith and that she honestly didn't mean to offend by evangelizing on the floor of the state legislature. She is the wife of a pastor, they point out.
But critics assert that she intentionally weaponized her faith in opposition to a Muslim woman joining the legislature a carefully calculated move intended to remind everyone that Christianity is the "correct" religion in Pennsylvania.
What is your reaction?
223 comments
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Pastor B Stevens
It’s simple remove her from office she does not understand separation ...
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SHAUN
stop the spread of the depraved satanic ideology of Islam - www.religionofpeace.com and www.chick.com
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Sheila
Wake up - there is no separation.
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Writehanded
And thank you Jesus for giving us the gift of advanced weaponry that convince our ignorant brethren by fire and death that only YOU are the Prince of Peace... Politics and religion...What other combination of lunacy allows people to destroy what they don't understand?!
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James Pace
Hello, separation of church and state anyone?
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ET
I agree! Religion not kept as private belief systems leads to anger, sadness, and hostility. If each person recognized and accepted the paths of others, this would be a more peaceful world, but unfortunately, it isn’t in mankind’s tribal nature to do so. It is what it is.
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SHAUN
Only fools accepts he paths of the depraved - The great book of fiction Koran teaches Muslims to do the things the false prophet Muhammad did - rape, child molestation, slavery, disfigurement and murder - see for yourself www.religionofpeace.com, www.chic.com, and www.josh.org.. Oh and by the way Allah is an ancient moon god identified as Satan... NO wonder the Koran has a special hatred of Jews and Christians..
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Sheila
There is no separation of church and state. It is impossible not to be toting someone's beliefs as "socially acceptable" to meet the supposed definition of "secular." Instead embrace all "beliefs" - but we do have laws - such as "don't murder people." So if your beliefs are about murdering people etc. - find another country that allows that, or abstain from following your beliefs.
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Linda Weeks
Why are we praying in a federal meeting anyway? Doesn’t this violate the established rules? Do we ask members of other religions to open with prayers from their own faiths? Let’s follow our own rules people!
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SHAUN
We have lost the way when we allow people of depraved satanic false religions like Islam share prayer time with the one true God.. try getting an education www.religionofpeace.com and www.chick.com
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Charles Fouad
Shaun! You really need help, and should see a psychiatrist soon. Your incessant and repetitive attacks on Islam shows a heart that is arogant in its vengefulness and bitterness. "Shaun Knows the way" and one and a half billion people who see Islam as their path to the One God are wrong , satanic and murderers. See a psychiatrist and please free us from your comments. Charles
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Lionheart
"We have lost the way when we allow people of depraved satanic false religions like Islam share prayer time with the one true God.. try getting an education"
Shaun, you do realize there is a Nobel Peace prize waiting for the first person that can prove a god, any god, exists....right? It seems that you are the one that has lost their way and needs to get an education.
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Sheila
Yes, let's follow our own rules! "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Anyone who wants to pray at a federal meeting ought not be prohibited! Those who don't like it - tolerate it. If you think that infringes on you - well you don't know what it's like to be on the other side of the coin not being allowed to express the truth (in prayer) and have to tolerate that its because of the beliefs of others being enforced on you that your beliefs are poppycock. Here's some news for you - atheist beliefs that they hold to be so undeniable look like poppycock to a whole lot of christian believers. Instead any of us enforcing our beliefs, allow them all to be expressed. Hmmm... - yes that sure sounds like "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
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Kenneth Zortman
Sheila as I have looked over so many of the post on this topic. To me you seem to have the most even hand so far. I am shocked at the comments of many that would denounce all remnants of God from their own lives and wish such a sad state of fairs for mine as well. Freedom comes at a cost to all, that is we be tolerant of each other. Jesus said we must love one another. I see here many that pull out the Bible and speak excellently about THIER thoughts. I could care less of what men say and way more as to what is in their hearts. I see so much hate for the rights of others to believe anything. We cannot be too far from the great time of the return of the SON OF GOD. He will come to repair and heal the misguided world that has been left to satin's plunder at this sad time...
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Sheila
Thank you for your comments Kenneth. Christ's Blessings to you!
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Lionheart
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Tom
That display in no way comes close to what muslims do to non muslims in predominantly islamic countries. At least rep. mojito didn't lose her head.
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Dan Atatakai
Tom - No, Muslims do NOT do such things. You are talking about radicalists. They are no more Muslim than the KKK is Christian.
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Steve
actually no Dan, that is not a radical version of Islam, it is their basic teaching...Islam is a worldview of world domination at all costs and to ignore that is to ignore all their foundational teachings. This woman did what was necessary. As a nation we have lost our way. We have incurred the loss of God's favor because of our actions and the only response is looking for the Holy Spirit to convict us all and engender a spirit of forgiveness and reconciliation with truth.
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glevum1
America is built on murder, of the natives, by a 'Christian' - Columbus et al and the enslavement, and forced removal of Africans from their homeland. You are NOT Christians. You are Anti - Islamics attempting to appease Zionist Israel.
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Sheila
So Israel ought to be eliminated? If that is so, how do you really know the Native Americans didn't have it coming? [By the way, Native Americans are my most favorite people in the world. And, God bless the Israelites - but you've got to realize not everyone of Israel is of Israel - I'm talking only the true Israelites be blessed (Rom. 9:6)]
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Dan Atatakai
Steve - I must disagree with you most strongly. Islam is NOT about world domination at all costs. Nothing could be further from the truth. Please, if you think it is, show in the Qur'an where it claims such an issue.
Remember, too, that there is no forced conversion or penalty of death to those who are apostates, yet in the Bible in Deuteronomy, there are specifics to kill apostates.
How do you figure that the US has "lost our way"? I am curious how you think that. Also, please explain how you think your God of Abraham would favor one country over another. That is like saying God influences the World Series.
Again, not attacking and condemning. I am merely questioning your thought processes to understand why you would say such "unique" claims.
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Wanda
Dan, you do not represent Islam. The clerics, the authorities and teachers of Islam represent Islam. They preach annihilation of non-believers and it has been adhered to throughout their history. They also teach that there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim, they teach "We are all the same, we are only Muslim."
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Gary Minnis
The radicals ARE muslim, correct?
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Sheila
Good point, but the KKK are radical, and they are not muslim.
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Dan Atatakai
Sheila - Yes, in addition to more than 150 Neo-Nazi groups in the US. Groups like al Qa'ida and the Taliban are by no means Muslim as their actions are completely opposite of what is taught in their own Qur'an.
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Ruth Williams
We are specific to this country and this rhetoric you speak of is terrorism and had nothing to do with this woman. Please save this for reflection on kindness and acceptance. There is no room for hatred and fear based intentions in this world. Especially from a person of cultural Universalist ideology.
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Tom
Kindness and acceptance are the antithesis to islam. Enjoy it while you can.
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Dan Atatakai
Tom - You might actually want to pick up a Qur'an and study it - not just skim over it. Also, you might want to stop in at a mosque and have a chat with an imam to ask your questions as to why you think they are not kind or accepting.
You might be surprised at what you learn, finding out that what you thought was inaccurate.
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Writehanded
You might have wandered off topic here...In such a country as you describe, do you think a so-called Christian would be elected in the first place? This article is about the USA, Pennsylvania in particular. . You know...respecting our differences, being united and all that...
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Tom
So now that we have muzzies in congress, our country has to bend or change rules to allow religious head scarves in session but no one can use a Christian prayer? This is how islam works. First they are the victim. Then they grow in number and rank. Then they spread intolerance for all other forms of societal preference; gays, Jews, Christians, etc... Going out to purchase my prayer rug now.
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kimberly
Exactly. Islam is a religion of intolerance to all other forms of religion and unorthodox beliefs. Do you think this head wrapped woman would tolerate the LGBTQXYZ? hardly. In muslim countries, they kill Christians, gays and anyone else they choose to disagree with. Again, this isn't about religion. Its about in-your-face ideology coming into power that supersedes what this country was founded on. Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
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Steve
completely in agreement here!
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glevum1
'Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.'? America is founded on the murder of the natives and enslavement and forced travel of Africans.
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kimberly
wrong...America was NOT founded on murder of the natives and enslavement of Africans. Most natives died of disease brought by those coming to the new land to flee religious intolerance. And, most non-whites were sold into slavery by their tribal enemies or came as indentured servants. Slave owners in this country were not the enslavers. And, reparation of slavery in this country was during the civil war. No non-whites in this country today have experienced slavery and should be grateful they aren't sitting in a mud hut smearing poop on their face to look pretty while the flies ring their eyes or in a hovel eating bugs in China. I suggest that the PC lies about how America was founded not be perpetrated on this forum.
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Norma Battes
Rev Bob March 27, 2019 at 5:21 pm " You know…respecting our differences, being united and all that… "
Reverend, reading all the replies to your post, I am astonished at the level of hate and utter confusion and denial of these people. And this I consider to be a "religious" website. Good Lord.
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Reverend Krystina S.
Well, bigotry is the mark of the ChristoFaschist.
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Reverend Krystina S.
ChristoFascist. You had me all upset here. I can't believe we are all here at the Universal Life website, which is more than ecumenical, espousing hateful, hurtful and wrong things. The Founding Fathers welcomed "The Musselman," which was their term for Muslims. I think the real "religion of intolerance" is the Evangelical Christian sect of Christianity. I myself was raised Orthodox Christian, and we were taught that in the great United States of America, we were all blessed to be able to be ourselves. And the Evangelical Xtians (X is an appropriate way to refer to Christ, it is the FIRST letter of Xristos, it is the shape of the cross) don't tolerate "the other" such as the LGBTQ people-- or the Jewish/NonEvangelicalProtestant/Athiest/Muslim/Zoroastrian/Wiccan/Hindu/Buddhist/Taoist/etc.etc. people either. The (type of "other") HUMAN BEINGS. Either. The United States is a country in which religion is supposed to be SEPARATE from government. To have a so-called "introduction" of a newly elected person of another party turned into a ChristoFascist and GOP DIATRIBE against Islam ought to end up with censure for Borowicz. And a response/lecture on comportment for the entire body.
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Tom
Don't worry, "ChristoFaschism" will come to a bloody end as IslaFaschism takes it's place. You might miss it... That is if you're not buried up to your neck and having stones thrown at your head for being female while driving a car. ....Well, maybe it won't be so bad, you know, the way women drive and such...
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Carl Elfstrom
However, Christians have been known to burn certain non - believers to stakes. And predominantly Christian countries did once use something called a guillotine. Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
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Gary Minnis
OMG. Really? Carl take a trip to Iran. See what kind of reception you get.
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Norma Battes
Gary Minnis April 3, 2019 at 7:30 am " OMG. Really? Carl take a trip to Iran. See what kind of reception you get. "
Or there's Christchurch. Too subtle? There is religious hate everywhere. Fortunately in this instance wiser minds eventually intervened with the nudge of an elbow.
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Lionheart
This is all about the problems of religion again...right? It shouldn’t even be a part of government. This is exactly what the First amendment is all about.
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Jim Townsend
And that is exactly wrong. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Tell me: where, when and who - ever proposed a bill, let alone passed such a bill, to establish any religion as the state (i.e., federal) religion? In fact, you can't, because it's never happened. Not even close, not within a 'country mile'.
Now, on to the second clause: being elected to office does not mean you give up your 1st Amendment right to freely exercise your religion. Else, why make it newsworthy, or any cause for celebration or recognition in the Assembly, the fact that someone is "the first Muslim to be elected to the Pennsylvania state legislature" - isn't that in and of itself a violation of the 1st Amendment? Hardly ... the first Amendment was meant to protect the people from the government relative to religion and the exercise thereof, not the other way around. And one person (or two, or three, or ...) does not constitute "the government".
Sure, you can quote (as many do) Justice Hugo Black in Everson v. Board of Education (1947), who wrote, "In the words of Thomas Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state." However, and this is where Hugo Black was most seriously flawed, keep in mind that Thomas Jefferson had virtually no part in writing the Constitution (he was in France during the Constitutional Convention and during the congressional debate over the Bill of Rights.).
Or, conversely, you can refer to a later Supreme Court decision Zorach v. Clauson (1952), which upheld 'accommodationism', holding that the nation's "institutions presuppose a Supreme Being" and that government recognition of God does not constitute the establishment of a state church as the Constitution's authors intended to prohibit. Bottom line is - the Supreme Court has been conspicuously & wildly inconsistent on this issue. So, wasn't Rep. Borowicz simply articulating her vision of a/the Supreme Being?
Finally, were Rep. Stephanie Borowicz's words (and length) inappropriate given the occasion ... Perhaps; perhaps even Likely.
Were her comments unconstitutional? ... Extremely, exceedingly, most assuredly doubtful.
Simply shouting 'separation of church and state!!!' as someone on this thread did - simplistic, completely useless, juvenile and ignorant? Extremely likely.
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Tom B
Lionheart...i agree...there should be no religion/praying in government...not at swearings-in; not at meetings, never...Peace...Tom B
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Carl Elfstrom
And nobody should have to take an oath on a Christian Bible, either. It never did any good. If everyone told the truth because he, she, or it swore to do so, it would put attorneys out of business, and only a very small percentage of self-defeatists would ever be incarcerated. Ethical people with good morals tell the truth as much as they can, others tell the truth as much as they have to. Anyone who claims to have never lied is a liar.
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Carl Elfstrom
So, if there isn't a federal religion how and why did they choose the Christian Bible to swear to. They might have been better off choosing the Satanic Bible, and including in the oath that those who don't tell the truth have sold their souls to Satan.
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Carl Elfstrom
They have to believe in the Bible to think swearing to it is going to do any good. And that's called being a Christian. The only good uses I've found for that book are rolling papers and toilet paper. I suppose it could also be used like a catcher's mitt, to make sure I didn't cast my seed upon the ground. Yes, I do have a sick, sarcastic sense of humor, and am not going away. So, deal with it. Atleast I'm not as bad as that cussing preacher, in a recent article.
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Norma Battes
Carl Elfstrom March 30, 2019 at 4:50 pm " So, if there isn’t a federal religion how and why did they choose the Christian Bible to swear to. "
I'm sure you know by now that "they" didn't choose a bible for swearing in ceremonies. It is always the choice of the individual. Several presidents didn't use a bible.
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glevum1
...including Abraham Lincoln.
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Chris
Jesus criticized those who pray publicly, particularly this kind of "prayer." It's interesting their god didn't punish the US for slavery or homeless children or even child pornography, but will punish us for electing Muslims and "the gays." Whatever god it is, it's sure not one I would want to follow.
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JORGE TERAN
Some people mix religion with stupidity
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Rev Jim
The kindest thing you can say is that it was insensitive. Since I am not Divine, only a part of the One, I don't know what was in the woman's mind and heart. But if she was making a statement about someone from another faith entering politics, then she will have to answer for it. As I always say as a citizen of the United States, if you don't like a politician for something the say or do, vote!
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Rev Jim
There is something ironic though, Jesus is considered a prophet in Islam. That is something that the two other major world beliefs (Buddhism and Judaism) don't have in common with Christianity. Food for thought.
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Carl Elfstrom
Buddhism isn't a religion, but simply a way of being. No Buddhist ever thought of Buddha as God, but only a man, Siddhartha Goitama, who had an excelled complete awakening. That may constitute becoming one with God, The All, or whatever you want to call it (like Jesus also supposedly did), but that doesn't mean, or isn't actually the same, as being that ultimate deity, as far as I can perceive.
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kimberly
The United States is a Christian-based nation and legislates the separation of government and religion. If "movita" was arrogant enough to wear muslim clothing in the face of this fact then a Christian prayer was the right response. I don't care for anyone who throws religion in my face by dress or by word and the "election" wasn't of a muslim. Emphasizing that it was as a muslim goes against the fundamentals of the constitution itself. Movita being elected is fine but its not an election to flaunt her religion or to perpetrate it. The same issue applies to dunkards and amish people who think that dressing in a certain way to portray a certain image means we must concede to them based on their religion in spite of who we might be. That is the height of hypocritical religious hierarchy. I'm not "Christian" in the orthodox sense and I'm definitely not muslim. I resent that anyone being elected to office in this country perpetrates their election based on religion. By the way....Public prayer in the Bible wasn't prohibited...it was public prayer to appear religious when not that Jesus spoke against. This prayer was not only to appear religious. Stephanie was true to her sensibilities and quite sincere I'm sure. What did you expect? She did the right thing based on who she was. An example....Being the comedienne that she is, would you expect Rosanne to not spit and grab her crotch after singing the national anthem? Never be surprised when people act based on who they are. Condemnation of Stephanie is not justified. She should be honored for staying true to herself in spite of the obvious pressure not to.
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John A Anderson, CD, CIF Mons ON
A quick question. Would the reaction be the same if it had been a nun wearing a wimple? If not, then the reaction is wrong, as a Muslima's hijab and a nun's wimple serve the same purpose. After all, they both worship the same god of Abraham.
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Reverend Krystina S.
The United States is not a Christian-based nation, in that the founding fathers were not, and did not see, the u.s. as "Christian." "[She] was true to her sensibilities and quite sincere I'm sure. What did you expect? She did the right thing based on who she was." If you put "Movita Johnson-Harrell" in place of "Stephanie" I think that would make sense. You've got it backwards. "I don't care for anyone who throws religion in my face by dress or by word..." Hm. It was "Stephanie" who was forcing down her own version of her religion AND her political party/belief. (God and Trump? Spare me that schtick!!!) Wearing a yarmulka or a cross or a hijab or a turban (sikh not muslim) or long skirt and white muslin cap is a personal preference. It's all ok with me, and not throwing anything in MY face. Preaching YOUR small-minded and bigoted religious/political crap while a person of another faith is in a history-making moment celebrating the diversity and democratic process that elected her as a FIRST of her faith is disgusting. I have TN, and must sometimes wear a mask, yes a MASK, or hat/hood and scarf covering ENTIRE face except eyes. And NOBODY has ever said anything negative to me, in the deep south! Because it is MY personal business, NOT THEIRS.
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SHAUN
THE KORAN TEACHES MUSLIMS TO DO THE THING THAT THE FALSE PROPHET MUHAMMAD DID - RAPE, CHILD MOLESTATION, SLAVERY, DISFIGUREMENT AND MURDER.. NOT TO MENTION THAT HE TELLS MUSLIMS TO LIE TO NON MUSLIMS ABOUT THEIR PLANS TO OVERTAKE THE PLANET BY FORCE.. ALSO YOU ARE NO DOUBT IGNORANT THAT ALLAH IS AN ANCIENT MOON GOD IDENTIFIED AS SATAN AND WHILE THEIR IS MASSES OF HISTORICAL, GEOLOGICAL AND SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO PROVE THE EVENTS OF THE BIBLE (INC MOST IMPORTANTLY THE RESURECTION)- THE KORAN IS PROVABLY FICTION.. DONT TAKE MY WORD FOR ANY OF THIS SEE THE FACTS FOR YOURSELF - WWW.RELIGIONOFPEACE.COM, WWW.JOSH.ORG AND WWW.CHICK.COM AND YOUTUBE - RED ICE TV, LAUREN SOUTHERN AND PAUL JOSEPH WATSON.
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Rev. John D. Partin
Shaun Clark, are you really offering www.chick.com (the well known anti-Catholic and anti-Muslim and anti-Mason and anti-other things bigoted site founded by Jack Chick) as one of your "proofs" against Islam?!! How is that different than a Nazi's pointing to texts in Mein Kampf or the Volkicher Beobachter as "proof" of the Jews' "vileness and subhumanity" or a Klansman's pointing to texts in a Klan web site or newspaper to "prove the inferiority of black people"? As for the Koran's "being fiction", the main reason why the Bible isn't considered fiction by you and others here and in the world is because it is already accepted by you and these people as "the truth" and so you aren't capable of being objective about it and bend over backwards to convince yourselves of its "truth" and "prove" and "justify" it, the same as Muslims do for their Koran and all other people do for their Scriptures in Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, etc., and as ancient people did for their Pagan religious beliefs. Christianity has also had its terrorists and criminals, too, and so Christians pointing to the same in Islam is the pot calling the kettle "black" and those with sins of their own still casting stones at others, ignoring and defying Jesus' teaching on the matter. All Muslims just aren't committing all of these terrorist and criminal acts, which they would be, if that were actually a requirement of Islam.
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Bob Lemmon
Here then ladies and gentlemen is shining proof that the last thing you want to use to start a coversation is the discussion of religion or politics, no matter how erudite a person is, they will be immediately vilified. We in this country have certain inalienable rights and our beliefs are at their very core, shame on all who attempt to take anyone's right to a belief, whether it be Christianity, or Muslim, Buddhism, or worshipping little green men. If anyone believes that who they worship is paramount, then go find an island to live on, so that you do not have to sully yourselves with unbelievers. God save me from your believers
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Alicia
This is a big problem with Evangelical Christians: They feel that their beliefs are the only TRUE way, so they don't take into consideration that others may not have those same beliefs.
I think it was a mistake to ask this woman to give the invocation simply because all the lawmakers know of her beliefs. I'm sure she shares them readily. If you ask a Christian to speak and aren't specific about what is and is NOT to be said, expect Jesus to come up a time or hundreds of times.
i don't think she was being "Islamophobic". I think she was just being an egotistical Christian who is clueless that others wouldn't appreciate her preaching.
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Writehanded
Amen, Sister...
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Carl Elfstrom
That sounds like another way of saying that she was being a stupid, ignorant, fool, like those who support her.
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Carl Elfstrom
I don't think all or even most Christians are stupid enough to believe that, although many of them might use it as an excuse to validate in appropriate behavior. Christians are just as capable of being insincere as the rest of us.
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Gary Minnis
It's more than just 'Evangelical Christians'.
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SHAUN
no its a question of being educated or ignorant - THE KORAN TEACHES MUSLIMS TO DO THE THING THAT THE FALSE PROPHET MUHAMMAD DID - RAPE, CHILD MOLESTATION, SLAVERY, DISFIGUREMENT AND MURDER.. NOT TO MENTION THAT HE TELLS MUSLIMS TO LIE TO NON MUSLIMS ABOUT THEIR PLANS TO OVERTAKE THE PLANET BY FORCE.. ALSO YOU ARE NO DOUBT IGNORANT THAT ALLAH IS AN ANCIENT MOON GOD IDENTIFIED AS SATAN AND WHILE THEIR IS MASSES OF HISTORICAL, GEOLOGICAL AND SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO PROVE THE EVENTS OF THE BIBLE (INC MOST IMPORTANTLY THE RESURECTION)- THE KORAN IS PROVABLY FICTION.. DONT TAKE MY WORD FOR ANY OF THIS SEE THE FACTS FOR YOURSELF - WWW.RELIGIONOFPEACE.COM, WWW.JOSH.ORG AND WWW.CHICK.COM AND YOUTUBE - RED ICE TV, LAUREN SOUTHERN AND PAUL JOSEPH WATSON...any questions??
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Monrovia
I am sorry... I always say that when the situation is so sad. I feel compassion for the believers of Islam because Muhammad did the best he could to strengthen his people from the deceit of Christian greed. I am sorry for the Christian's who found it necessary to continue to promote such sorrowful visuals in the name of Christ. Muhammed may have implemented a defense against infidels and Christian's may claim self righteousness in the belief that they are not infidels; America does the best it can to be inclusive. It is clear, the prayer that was prayed was a pre- decision from the tried and true evangelical point of view whose right to speak for Jesus superceded all other political and religious views and for that I am truly sorry. I take this discoreded expression of religiosity personal. The hatred and bigatry is overwhelming for the 21st. Century. Even education should have taught us to treat one another with decency and respect. The only way Islam can destroy America is by allowing the Americans that created the U S and the land upon which it exists, to uproot all that has been established under the classification of 'FREEDOM'. I am sorry for not providing the proper words for the faith of the atheist, the hope of Islam and the failure of the Christian to tell the TRUTH.
Please forgive me for being so ignorant. I do apoligize. Min. Hicks
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kimberly
I wouldn't want a nun wearing religious garb being elected to office either. And just to let you know.....Islam's deity isn't the same deity as a nun's. Orthodox Christianity worships a modalistic/polytheistic trinity. Islam worships a monotheistic deity which is a man.
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Carl Elfstrom
The Roman Catholic hierarchy won't let a nun run for office. She would first have to quit being a nun, which is further proof of your ignorance. Go right ahead and keep putting your foot in your mouth. There are always more than plenty of ministers here who will correct your stupid statements.
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Carl Elfstrom
Furthermore Bimbo, Catholics and Catholicism are not orthodox. They'd first have to become protestant, and there's not a chance of that.
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Bob Lemmon
Bimbo? Now there's proof of a closed mind
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Reverend Krystina S.
kimberly, I was raised Orthodox Christian. Were you? What do you know about us? or are you making it up? Are you talking about Catholic nuns? or Orthodox Christian ...nuns? You do know that Islam worships Jesus as well, just not as part of the trinity, not as the Risen Christ... Do you understand the nature of the Orthodox trinitarian Divine, as opposed to the Catholic/Protestant trinity? Have you researched the filioque clause, which created the Great Schism, and which version makes more sense to you? And what about the Eastern Rite Catholic vs. the Eastern Orthodox? Or the Oriental Orthodox, such as the Copts? Are you confused, kimberly? The Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT Trinitarian. The others I mentioned ARE Trinitarian. This does NOT mean polytheistic OR modalist. That is not the nature of God as most trinitarian sects understand it. Try to clarify or speak the truth, please.
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kimberly
I'm not at all confused. When I speak of modalism/polytheism, I'm speaking of the fact that each and every passage quoted to "prove" the trinity is presumptively overlaid with one or the other. For example, the phrase "I and the father are one" is presumptively overlaid with one or the other depending upon what you point out...a conglomerate of so-called "Christian" religious sects that perpetrate a concept denying the absolute singularity of the God of the Bible. "Are one" simply means one MIND and not some sort of abstract unification of multiple persons (or persona). To actually "prove" the trinity, the passage would have to be "I and the Father are God". Islam thinks that Jesus was some kind of prophet. As such, they do NOT worship him as you seem to think. My background is a mix of Appalachian Pentecostalism, cultic Armstrongism and dunkard German Baptist and I'm married to a Lutheran. In addition to that I'm an environmental scientist in chemistry. Believe me, I've had to unlearn more religion that most just to get at what is "right" about the Bible. The only time I've ever been confused was the day I actually picked up the book and started to read it only to discover what was written didn't even come close to what I'd been taught about it. I don't have anything against anyone who chooses their organization unless they try to throw it in my face. And that's just what the "elected" lady was doing by going to her election in religious garb. In case you don't know, she didn't wear such garb when she was campaigning! The "Christian" prayer was fully justified.
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Tom
Hey hey, Krystina. Don't lose your head over it... If you love Islam so much join it since it's just aa stone's throw away... I heard islam is da bomb...
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Linda H Deaver
what an #hole.
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glevum1
Lol! Stop it Krystina! You're confusing these fools. They thought they knew everything till you showed up.
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Minister
Jesus loves everyone no matter who or what they are. Using God to spread hatred will secure a spot in hell for the one that does it...
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Lionheart
A typical religious fallacious statement at its best!
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BRIAN
When are people going to realize that Jesus Christ was not a religous figure. Religion killed Jesus. He was against religous ignorance. To me she sounded like the Pharisees and the religous leaders of the Roman Empire back 2000 plus years ago. Christ himself warned of this: Mathew 6:7
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Sally
It didn’t turn awkward, it turned ugly.
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Ytown
I forgot my pledge to stop reading these reports and comments. Discussion invariably leads to religious intolerance and long posts about a Christian country etc. Please show me where the word God appears In the Constitution. Then tell me if a Jew wearing a Kippah, Sikh wearing a turban, Christian wearing a cross are permitted. Perhaps any Orthodox Jewish woman should be checked for a wig before entering? And no Amish allowed of course. Where does it end?? As an aside, check on what’s happening in the Buddhist country of Myanmar.
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william n Hodges
Religion is a two edged sword. Those that would promote it in the legislative halls must understand that when the pendulum swings and it will swing, that they will be in no position to stop what ever religion gains enough strength to take those halls.
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Nolan
That was pretty embarrassing. I would say that she has real issues if pleading for Jesus to save us all while carrying out a government function seems a reasonable action.
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Andrew
Amen! May Jesus keep working.
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Greg Wallace
Jesus was a no good peace loving flower child. He never worked a day in his life though he could do some nifty magic tricks.
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Lionheart
He does work, he cuts my neighbors grass twice a month. He also smokes cigarettes, which I find interesting for an alledged deity. He charges more than my gardener, so I have sinned and forsaken him for another cheaper deity.
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bmehli
Jesus is surely weeping as you spew hatred of others in His name." Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: "Love your neighbor as yourself." All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew 36-40
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Sebastian
People of the Muslim Faith should not hold seats of power in a Christian country. You would not have a Christian in a position of power in a Muslim country.
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Sheila
In short Muslim Faith people should hold seats of power in our country if we voted them in. The person was voted in. That's our laws in this country. As christians we follow the laws of our country - in-so-far that it doesn't break God's law. In the Bible there was plenty of a non-christian leader God appointed to rule over us - some of them He even used to do good. The leaders that are obviously bad, I don't know why they are there - but God did put each leader where they are (Romans 13:1)
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pops
Does anyone really care about this nonsense?
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walt
Not really, but it's a great place to troll.
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Br. Karsten Johansson
This is literally what the commandment against taking the Lord's name in vain is about. She was praying to appear pious, yet it is entirely her personal vanity and evil words of judgement on display.
James 4:11-12: Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?
This is clear direction and guidance from someone who knows a thing or two...
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David Christopher Rediger
It is my opinion that the prayer given by Rep. Stephanie Borowicz was not in the spirit of hate but a plea for help from the snares and traps of the devil.
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Rev Ned
Did this guy’s prayer work? Did Betsy d Vos vanish in a cloud of smoke?
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b
To be fair here is coverage of the imman praying and speaking in Arabic?
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Govannon Thunorwulf
I can not say that I'm surprised. I was born and raised in the extremely racist northeastern area of PA. I left when I turned 18 and finished high school in Maine, while supporting myself. I'm now 46 and I still have no interest in returning.
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JustWondering
Wondering if she was sworn in on a Bible or Quran? If it was the Quran then she could not recognize our Constitution because it is so much different than the Christian faith.
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Lionheart
The Constitution has nothing to do with the Christian faith, or any faith. No god is mentioned in the Constitution. An atheist doesn’t have to use any scriptural text to be sworn in.
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Princess D Hunter
I am glad she did that. She stood her grounds for her 1st Amendment right. She expressed the same expression that they expressed for the respect of their religion and culture. I say Jesus Name is above all names because he is the Most High Sovereign Leader of every religion. When he respected them they turned against him. The thing about opposite spirits are, if you call on Jesus Name and people get disturbed or feel weird for praying to him in any setting that they are consenting to going against God's Most Holy Anointed Chosen Vessel of the Holy Spirit which means they celebrate the anti Christ. But I did not feel like it was racist or discriminatory because she raise who needed for her own personal defense and repented in the same breath.
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yezot
Reading this forum is the best source of entertainment a person could ask for. My chest hurts from so much laughing. Eat your heart out funny papers, you could never beat this forum for humor.
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Rev Ned
Agreed!!!
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Katliet
So now, Christians praying and mentioning the name of Jesus is "islamophobic"? What horseshit. How is the prayer racist since muslims come in all races and colours? Good for Stephanie Borowicz! Once again those who hate christianity and christians want an apology for failing to bend the knee to islam, only this time, they were told to get bent!
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Kenneth Zortman
I pray that my heavenly Father looks down upon my sole through the eyes of mercy and forgiveness of my sins and finds my heart open to love even those who would do me harm for his namesake. Make me tolerant of others and understanding of when he guides my words to speak out for his knowledge to be heard by those that need to hear.
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Duh
You want God to smile on your foot? Soul, not sole.
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Kenneth Zortman
thank you for seeing my faults I know at least you did read the post thank you , I am only a human after all.
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Rev Ned
Thanks!! Now I have that Eurithmics song stuck in my head.
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Bill Fox
The woman was lawfully elected to office, religion and all. I would assume her sworn oath is as good as any elected official. On the other hand, it is refreshing to see a Christian place free speech above political correctness.
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David Christopher Rediger
The 1st Amendment states: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; That does not mean separation from religion. Look at the preamble to the Declaration of Independence.
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BRIAN
Not really :)
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BRIAN
Very well said
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Common Sense
I urge people that think it's ok to put a Muslim in public office to read the Quran, the Quran tells them to Kill disbelievers murder them and treat them harshly. I've heard people say all muslims are not bad, but if they claim to be Muslim then they believe in the Quran and what it tells them to do. We need to remember the story of the trojan horse. God Bless America.
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Lionheart
Don't forget that it was your God, that same Abrahamic god, that approved the stoning of a man for picking up sticks on the sabbath, and he also condoned slavery. So by that edict, people that do not honor the sabbath should be stoned, and slavery is okay...right?
It was Jesus, if he really existed, that didn't put any caveats on beating slaves (Luke 12:47), or murdering nonbelievers (Luke 19:27) either.
Common sense tells you that Christianity is just as bad as Islam if you follow it to the letter. Common sense tells you that your bible is just as bad as the Qur'an, so using your logic, no one that supports the Abrahamic god should take office, which I would wholeheartedly agree with.
?♥️
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Pastor Bob
It is so sad to see so many hateful and ignorant comments about this event. Especially by so called Ministers and Imams. Christianity does have the mission to "go forth and preach the good new across the land to all who would hear" as well as prayer mandates before serious undertakings. Under the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights this is a freedom and right, not to be interfered with. Few folks seem to know that the Koran recognized Jesus, as a prophet and Muslems are directed to observe His teachings. Further Allah is the God (Y.H.W.H.) of Abraham, the same Abraham in both Judaic tradition and the Christian Faith. So the offense displays similar ignorance as the hate speech from the fundamentalist extreme sects in these religions. In my opinion the outrage sadly springs from intolerance and only proves having a goal of eliminating all but that one faith, or world domination by violence and genocide if necessary. This is taught in, If I correctly recall, in the first third part of the Koran, which speaks of wars and domination. The same intolerant concepts are found in the Torah and Bible, describing the Exodis and conquest of the Holy Lands some two thousand years B.C.E.
It is at the end of these faith instructional manuals or philosophies of thought, we find the revolutionary message of tolerance, forgiveness, understanding, and unrequiting love to all. This humanitarian almost impossible goal, given our very nature to compete and dictate, is the very foundation of Judaic, Christian, and Islam philosophies, but unfortunately and tragically too many faithful are ignorant and only read what they want to justify their own lives and established bias, not to improve themselves as human beings or seek saalvation.
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Rudi Richardson
She needs professional help in the form of a therapist.
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Linda H Deaver
She does indeed. A prayer for the well-being of all would have been called for. A prayer to denigrate this woman does not support the ideals of the United States and I don't believe it supports the ideals of the Christ. This was an "oh look, here we go down the drain...." type prayer. Rude, illiterate, and unfortunate. I hope that is not how the majority of Americans think or feel.
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Lone
Would like to see those sworn into government to put their hand on the constitution. Just saying.
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Secretary3rd
Best way is to vote her out of office.To make her point reading from the Qur'an would have been better. Sharia Law some great pointing passages in it.
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BRIAN
I got an even better idea than anybody at this point. Let's all just shut up about this nonsense and let's talk about more important things.....like why did they stop the new AAF football league? I was starting to kinda like it.
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Sheila
For Lionheart:
You say, "... but of course I’m willing to accept I could be wrong ..." and yet you say about God, " ..your mythical god..." Really that's very much already showing you're not willing to consider that you're wrong. But, I may as well take a stab at it anyway right?
You say, "To me, it is totally absurd that anyone can believe in anything that cannot be demonstrated to be true." Obviously that's because you don't know better.
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death" (Proverbs 16:25). So, just because it appears to be so, doesn't make it so - and vice versa.
But God's creation itself speaks of God: Rom 1:19-20,"For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." If you're truly serious about seeing the proof of God by your standards, watch "The Truth Project" in it's entirety - https://www.focusonthefamily.com/promos/the-truth-project .
In the branch of science called philosophy, it is intuition that is the highest form of knowing. Analysis, that you depend upon, misses the boat. Anytime a person relies upon a hunch that completely goes against logic, and the hunch was a true hunch that pans out to be true - that person was believing in something that could not be demonstrated to be true. Couldn't be pre-determined because the situation was unique. Couldn't be proven after the fact, because for some strange reason, the results never turn out again the way that original hunch did. Awfully too bad for you if you've never experienced that. I guess that's what happens when you rely on analysis. You miss out on the immenseness of actual reality. Again, too bad for you.
But, let's call you on what you think would prove God to you. So let's say we bring the reality of an "Oh God" movie to you - and in comes George Burns right over to you (years been dead now) and He says He's God. Really you'd believe Him? No, you wouldn't. If you're being honest with yourself, no that wouldn't be proof God exists. So what is it exactly that God could do to prove to you He exists? Here's what Jesus said, "they didn't listen to the prophets, neither will they listen though someone comes back from the dead."
You want your demonstration proving things? Then I'm curious as to what exactly that demonstration would look like. What would that look like if it were to happen?
BTW, if you think about it just a little bit, Sasquatch and fairy tales don't compare to the obvious "possibility" of the existence of God. I put "possibility" in quotes because it sounds just as absurd as it's "possible" the chair I'm sitting on exists. Absurd because duh the MAKER of EVERTHING and the chair both exist.
What's absurd is the lack of depth in your thinking. But, maybe not so absurd. Lack of depth in thinking is the sort of thing that happens when your beliefs of reality are set in your invention created to fulfill your various psychological and emotional wants and/or needs - like what you are doing.
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Lionheart
Thank you for your religious word salad. It contains much of what I've heard before by indoctrinated people such as yourself, and that's okay, if it helps you get through life. Many people need it. Many people can't live without it. If you can't live without it, I suggest you hang on to it as best you can. It becomes a crutch that many need to get through each day.
To me, if a god was to prove itself it would heal everyone, especially little children, dying of cancer. It would reveal itself in such a way that all other religions would instantly realize they had got it wrong. Clearly, if there was a real god it obviously doesn't give a @&%# about the mess the earth is in, if it did it would have done something about it by now. Wouldn't you if you were a god? I know I would, because I care about people. I wouldn't go around drowning my family, or children, if I got angry.
Anyway, as I've said before, read your fictional book, and hang in there as best you can with whatever illusions, or mythical fantasies you want to make real in your head if it makes you feel okay. You won't be out of place, many do.
?♥️
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Sheila
So you're saying you'd believe God exists if, " ... a god was to prove itself it would heal everyone, especially little children, dying of cancer." No, you wouldn't. He got rid of Small Pox, and you still don't believe He exists. If He got rid of cancer - you'd have the same excuses for why He doesn't exist as you do now. Such as right now you're saying along lines of, "Of course God isn't the ONE who got rid of Small Pox." You'd come up with someone else to credit if He got rid of cancer.
You say, "It would reveal itself in such a way that all other religions would instantly realize they had got it wrong." That's my point. You're so smart - so what would that look like? How would He prove Himself to you?
Verily Jesus let us know, “But Abraham said, ‘If they won’t listen to Moses and the prophets, they won’t be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead'” (Luke 16:31).
Your non-belief in God is set in fallacy. Probably you're mistakenly blaming Him for something, and so punishing yourself by deciding not to believe (just like resentment is like swallowing poison and expecting the other person to die). And, for what? Just because you're clinging to your beliefs of reality that are set in your invention created to fulfill your various psychological and emotional wants and/or needs. In short, you're feeling hurt by Him, so you came up with something else to assuage you.
It's a nice touch having you throw in an idea of what you'd do if you were God, and wouldn't I do that, too? As, I've described before, I went through that whole "if I were God" thinking back before kindergarten - prior age 6. And, I could tell you at the time, even prior to my "if I were God" thinking that God most certainly already has done something for the world. He saved the world. "For God so loved the world, He gave it to His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (ACIM at T-2.VII). And, even while soon is coming when He returns, He and His Father are sill working doing things for the world (John 5:17).
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Lionheart
Thank you for attempting to validate your god, but again, I still don't see it attempting to prove itself. It didn't get rid of Smallpox any more than Sasquatch, or fairies did, the ingenuity and brilliance of mankind did, just like the same brilliance of mankind putting men into Space, and to the moon. It seems you'd like to credit your god for these things, but wash its hands of anything that wasn't good, like disease, and disasters of nature.
If your God was worthy, or even capable, of proving itself it would do so by physically showing itself to the world. It's had plenty of time to do so, if it really existed. Appearing to the earth and ridding it of cancer would be a step in the right direction, but you can speak as much as you want to your imaginary friend, it's not going to happen.
Please keep believing in your myth if it helps you get through each day. I wouldn't deny that to anyone. There are many that desperately need to do that, and that's okay by me.
?♥️
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Sheila
You are so narrow-minded. But, at least it's a happy crutch for you. Then again, so is use of cocaine for purposes of feeling happier. You use your crutch at your peril. But, for now, apparently it's still a happy crutch for you.
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Lionheart
That's a very interesting statement to say I'm the one that's narrow-minded. I'm the one willing to accept ALL possibilities. I'm the one saying I could be wrong so show me the evidence. I'm the one saying that fairies, the Loch Ness Monster, Sasquatch, Flying saucers, Unicorns et al could in fact be real, just show me the evidence. I've not heard you say yet that you could be wrong about anything I've mentioned, even your god, existing. So who is being narrow-minded Sheila? Your crutch is your narrow-minded, unsupported, belief structure.
I hope you never get called up for jury duty. You will more than likely not require any evidence to come to your decision.
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Sheila
Lionheart - You're so narrow-minded, you can't admit to your crutch.
So you think this is narrow-minded? The inability to accept one may be wrong when one most assuredly knows oneself to be right? That's not narrow-minded. That's smart. What's narrow-minded is if you have the inability to recognize truth in what others hold to be true that may seem in opposition of what you know to be true, but if you think about it, perhaps it is not. And, if you start off with some sort of bias such as "anyone who admits to believing in a recognized religion is using a crutch" and somehow there exists people without a religion who are strong enough not to need a crutch, hence the lack of using a crutch because such people can truly "handle the truth." That is what most certainly narrow-minded in a most arrogant way. Everyone uses a crutch. Everyone has a religion.
See the difference?
Evidence? Loads of evidence for God. You're not accepting all possibilities, you chose one. You most definitely chose to believe God doesn't exist. There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death. (Proverbs 16:25 & 14:12) “I call heaven and earth to witness against you that today I have set before you life or death, blessing or curse. Oh, that you would choose life; that you and your children might live! (Dt. 30:19) Whoever is not with Me is against Me, and whoever does not gather with Me scatters. (Mt 12:30 & Luke 11:23) But Jesus said to him, “Do not stop him, for the one who is not against you is for you.” (Mark 9:40 & Luke 9:50) See, two possibilities and you chose one.
A true hunch trumps analysis every time. A true hunch captures truth regardless of evidence - you just know. Just prior age 6, I went with my hunch. And since then, I marvel at the evidence in archeology and apologetics that God exists. Romans 1:20 "For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." The Truth Project explains this in great detail, showing even Darwin would refute his own theories if he knew then what we know now (https://www.focusonthefamily.com/promos/the-truth-project) .
Same for jury duty - you have a hunch and it's obviously a true hunch because the evidence supporting it is so clear; is far different than a hunch that's unsupported and you follow the laws of your government as we are told to do by the Bible, and you do not use your hunch as evidence. Duh.
BTW, the Bible says I don't have some crystal clear picture of what reality really is. So according to my "religion" I've no choice but to be open-minded or I'm not following what I purport to believe.(1 Cor. 13:12)
But you, on the other hand - so narrow-minded.
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Lionheart
Sorry to disappoint you Sheila, but you still haven’t convinced me that any god exists, especially yours.
As far as I’m concerned your crutch rests on your ridiculous assessment that your god is real, despite having no evidence. And that’s okay, you are not on your own, if that helps you to know that.
Please keep talking to your imaginary friend if it helps you get through each day. You’ve made it very clear you need it.
?❤️
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Sheila
Unfortunately it hasn't been my goal to convince you my God is real. I suppose that'd be the loving thing to do, but my crucified sinful nature isn't dead/gone as of yet. And, I've a whole lot more growth as a christian to do to be more successful at "feeding the good wolf vs. feeding the bad wolf" each of us has inside us. So, yes, I'm accusing myself as being unloving. Obviously I need to work on that.
Nope - just pointing out that you have a crutch - a religion, and you are arrogantly absurd to think otherwise. You are not a free-thinker, you are bound and shackled by your religion. Admitting it's your crutch would be a step toward being open-minded and free of your need to cling to your beliefs of reality that are set in your invention created to fulfill your various psychological and emotional wants and/or needs. You have various psychological and emotional wants and/or needs that make it necessary for you to believe you don't have a crutch/religion. That absurd arrogance you feel about being above everyone who's religion is obvious to you; yet ironically you can't even recognize your own.
Pretty sure I haven't convinced you of that either. It just means you continue to be absurdly arrogant and narrow-minded.
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Lionheart
It's okay to continue with insults if you feel better doing that, it's what is often expected from some type of Christians. There are some Christians on this forum with the intelligence to hold a healthy intelligent debate, so you might want to consider looking at those posts to see how they do it. Just saying!
It's really is okay to admit, as you do, that you are unloving. I do understand that you have a lot of work to do in that area. Thank you for recognizing that and attempting to be a better person. Try not to beat yourself up about it too much, life is short and we need to make the best we can of it. If anything truly exists at all in the life, it's love.
Please be well.
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Sheila
Lionheart You said, "It’s okay to continue with insults if you feel better doing that ..." Yeah, I disagree. I'm not ok with you continuing with insults although it makes you feel better. Your smug insulting comments include along the lines of, "I, Lionheart, don't have a religion" & "I, Lionheart, don't have a crutch." By making such statements, you've already forfeited having an intelligent debate.
You said, "There are some Christians on this forum with the intelligence to hold a healthy intelligent debate" - whatever that means. What'd they convince you of that you didn't know before? If not anything, then what's the difference? Let me guess, with them it's easier for you to continue to feel wise in your own eyes vs. with me you're getting called out.
Your foundation in "I, Lionheart, don't have a religion" & "I, Lionheart, don't have a crutch" is folly. The proper way to handle folly is to not answer it so you don't also appear foolish but then the fool for sure will continue to feel wise in his own eyes.; or answer it according to the folly so the fool who said it maybe won't continue to feel wise in his own eyes.
So, I guess I've been more loving toward you than I gave myself credit for. I definitely look foolish for answering to your folly; but it was out of caring that there be a chance that you don't continue to look wise in your own eyes.
You said, "If anything truly exists at all in the life, it’s love." Right. God is love. (1 John 4:8) Just saying!
Evidence dependent on the evidence that suits your crutch - what a crutch. And again, you're not a free-thinker & not open-minded. You're incapable it until you can honestly fathom the crutch your using - own up to your religion.
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Lionheart
You are obviously very easily hooked Sheila. You are starting to make yourself look very silly on this blog. Try and work on your love for everyone. Try and live up those things you hold dear in your mythical religion, it really might help you think more clearly and become more loving. Your fellow Christians will then start to look up to you I’m sure.
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Sheila
Lionheart
You said, "Your fellow Christians will then start to look up to you I’m sure." Hmmm... my fellow christians already look up to me - as in we look up to each other. Fellow christians already appreciate what I have to say. Must be because I'm already thinking clearly and have a better handle on love than what I realize.
But, I can tell you there are no "mights" about this: If you'd own up to the religion you so clearly have, you'd be stepping in the direction of becoming a free-thinker and being open-minded. Until then (yeah, I have hope) you're just being smug.
I know the arrogance is a hard thing for you to give up. The allure of getting to feel excessive pride in oneself under the guise of "I don't have a religion" is quite the hook. I don't know how easy it was for you to get hooked there - but you're sure not willing to leave.
You said, "You are obviously very easily hooked Sheila." And, I don't suppose you're willing to share the supposed examples of that? Please do share.
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Lionheart
Sheila, you are obviously the epitome of a religious fanatic that doesn’t know how to let go, and that’s okay, if in some way it helps you.
It’s people like yourself that drives others away from religion, especially Christianity. You have helped me realize that I am obviously on the right path to never get involved in your type of religion, or any religion at all. Im sure your god, if he exists, is shaking his head at your very unchristian responses and attitude.
I’m also sure the friends that you reference that you say look up to you are also shaking their heads in disappointment of what a poor example you are setting for your faith, whatever that really is.
As a secular humanist, I let you go, in the hope you can one day come to terms with love for your fellow man, and treat them with the respect and love they deserve.
My words and sentiment in the hope that you can truly find love for everyone is sincerely meant.
This will be my last response to you in the hope you can find not only peace and love with others that think differently to you, but also that you can find peace with yourself.
Be well Sheila.
?❤️
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BRIAN
Religion was what killed Jesus. Jesus was not a religous person. That's what's wrong with this world. Too many religous fanatics and not enough people trying to just do the right thing. So what if this lady was or is Muslim? So what if her belief system is different from Christians or Islamist or even Pagans for that matter. She was elected for a reason. Our human minds can "assume" We know why she was elected but God knows exactly why this lady was elected. It's not and never is anyone's call to throw stones at her or the lady who prayed her prayer during her swearing in. We all know what opinions are like......and yes most of them stink.
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kimberly
it isn't that she's Muslim...its that she's un-American.
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Sheila
So, the people who tease people for believing the Earth is flat - that's just like believing your race is superior to all others. Yeah, I get it now. ALL OF US (including you) believe in the same way as a racist believes their race to be superior to all others. But, how tolerant is each of us in allowing others (including you) to believe they are right? I dislike racism, but if the racist is tolerant of others believing the racist is wrong - well that's freedom. And, of course being tolerant of the racist to have their beliefs - is freedom. But, there are laws to follow regardless of what you believe. I do have my reasons for supporting censorship of racism expressed on the internet, in advertising, etc. But, the beliefs are legal to have - and my opinion is that is a good thing. How tolerant are you? How honest are you with yourself that you recognize you believe your beliefs to be superior? - particularly to be superior to Borowicz's belief that she was in the right to do what she did?
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Tom B
Sheila...well said...a very good expression of reality, as we live it...Peace...Tom B
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Donald St Germain
Really do you believe that there is no Godat all no matter what religion we espouse to
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Archbishop Yanel Jay Laroche Jr.
Who are all these Muslim women and all Christian women on the earth according to Revelation 18:1-8, according to Revelation 17:5, and according to Revelation 22:15? According to Revelation 17:5, Babylon the Great is the mother of harlots in all Christian churches that are all in a dwelling place of demons and are called dogs that are male prostitutes according to Revelation 22:15. And the dogs, the sexually immoral, the liars carrying out a lie,and the sorcerers are outside the city says Revelation 22:15. I fell in love with a beautiful white Hispanic woman called Nanette Gonzalez. I married her religiously, but not legally because a demon stole my wallet while I was still in Miami, Florida at night with Nanette Gonzalez says I, Archbishop Yanel Jay Laroche Jr., so holy. While me and Nanette Gonzalez were in a rental room in Hollywood, Florida. She told me that she was a hoe.And I never knew hoe was slang for prostitute until I looked it up in a dictionary a few weeks later when I divorced Nanette Gonzalez for committing adultery so many times. Nanette Gonzalez was a victim of many rapes before I met her at some Hospital in Hollywood, Florida. That is what she told me a long time ago says I, Archbishop Yanel Jay Laroche Jr.,so holy.
This is a blatant display of Christian arrogance and intimidation. I am sure Rep. Stephanie Borowicz thinks she is some kind of warrior for Jesus and feels oh so smug about her 'evangelization'. I think she is simply being rude to Rep. Johnson-Harrell and embarrassing those Christians who don't feel the need to 'prove how holy they are' to others. Shameful conduct.
Let's crucify Barowicz !!!
How about a little water torture instead?
Borowicz is not a Christian. She is a religionist and should be removed from her position as a lawmaker.
Her wearing of a flowing all-white dress is proof to me that she wanted to appear to be a devout Christian, when her actions prove that she doesn't really follow the teaching of her "God."
What's worse than an arrogant Christian? An ignorant population Read the quran find out why people are against islam. Knowledge is power and obviously not many on here have any
And also read the Bible to find out why people are against Christianity, and religion in general.
Yes, knowledge is power!
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For Lionheart
Like you don't have a religion! You most certainly do - and you are completely arrogant to think otherwise.
As for the "religion" of Christianity - yeah, you read the Bible and you'll find whatever it is you are seeking to find in it, “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you" ( Matthew 7:7). But why would you look for something negative? The biblical charge is to, "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." Here's the thing about God in Hebrews 11:6, "And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to Him must believe that God exists and that He rewards those who sincerely seek Him." So if you want to find God, believe He exists and believe He rewards those who sincerely seek Him. My guess is that you don't want to find God - but it's just a guess.
For Sheila
No, I certainly don’t have a religion, and you are completely arrogant to think otherwise.
Your mythical, genocidal, pestilential, infanticidal god, among many other pathetic traits, is not even worthy of being called a god, even if he really existed.
My guess is that you have convinced yourself that your god really exists, and don’t want to think otherwise - but, like your mistaken belief in a god, it’s just a guess.
For Lionheart,
You are so trite & insincere to claim you don't have a religion. Yes, you do have an interest or pursuit to which you ascribe supreme importance. And, yes, that's the definition of "religion." You are so hoity-toity. And, it makes no sense to call me arrogant for thinking you've got a religion. Oh yeah, I'm so arrogant to be putting EVERYONE on an even "playing ground" - how arrogant of me. At least put some intelligence into your name-calling.
Look I came to terms with GOD long, long ago when I was 6. I mean think about it - "The Lord's Prayer." As it starts out, "Our Father Who art in heaven ..." If He's truly in heaven - then we're all sitting pretty in the ultimate sense of eternity. If He's in heaven, He's most definitely a good guy - if you can comprehend heaven in the sense of the word. But, if He's NOT in heaven "Hell would be our name." So yeah, I had no problem at that age or now comprehending what it means if God is not GOOD.
Not worthy of being called God? How little is the depth of your thinking that you can't comprehend the hypothetical? If God were NOT in heaven - He most certainly STILL is God; you know, absolute Author of ALL that is in existence; but if He is NOT in heaven then Hell would be our name. The absolute Author of everything is GOD; regardless of the nature of what He's like. Duh! Sounds like you can't accept the reality of things if it seems too negative to you. It seems your beliefs of reality are set in your invention created to fulfill your various psychological and emotional wants and/or needs. How trite.
Of course I believe my God really exists. Duh! However, I do have over 4 decades of practice of looking at the other side of the coin (yes, I'm older than 46). If I'm right, and others are wrong - does my God have the compassion to save them? In light of Jesus Christ saving us from sin - yes, my God has the compassion to save them. That's the God I believe in. If I'm wrong, does their God have the compassion to save me? If not, then it's unfortunate that my hopes were in a more compassionate God. But, faith is the evidence of things hoped for. So, why would I want to hope for less - I wouldn't, and I don't.
My belief in God is just a guess? No less a guess than yours not to believe He exists. And, at least I'm not closed off to considering everything. You spew "... is not even worthy of being called a god" - oh please, obviously you don't comprehend what God is. You don't get to judge your Maker - ultimately might does make right, and so it just doesn't work that way.
You are wrong again Sheila, but that’s ok. Clearly you lack understanding after your 46 years of being here on earth, and that’s ok. I’ve been where you are, so I understand. It took me until I was at least 60 to realize how indoctrination truly works, so you have a way to go yet.
I’m glad you came to terms with your mythical God at the age of 6. I had a similar epiphany at about that age, or possibly younger, with Santa Clause. Eventually, I grew up and became educated to reason and logic. I also no longer believe in the tooth fairy. I hope the tooth fairy reality hasn’t shocked you too much. No, it doesn’t exist, and Santa Clause isn’t real either. You need to know this to help you along your journey of discovering reality. I really do hope you get there one day. Then, and only then, will you be free of all dogma, and indoctrination. Being a free thinker, and not to be bound and shackled by religion is a wonderful experience Sheila.
I really wish you well!
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For Lionheart
Proverbs 9:10 NIV "...knowledge of the Holy One is understanding." Clearly I don't lack understanding. Yes, you're wrong.
Oh yeah, like I accepted my beliefs of God so uncritically. Like I didn't already know about evolution when I was 4, but regardless knew what was real - the knowledge of the Holy One was mine. I even asked my mom prior kindergarten, "I wonder what it's like to be God?" And I get this sharp scolding, "You shouldn't think like that!" With very much a "you are in BIG trouble with God to be thinking like that" look on her face. And, I knew God, and knew the 10 commandments, etc., and knew the personal holy fear of Him (probably not at all like however you define fear - but fear in terms of reverence - fear as in fear that God Himself feels when He fearfully crafts each one of us). So, I don't suppose you'd guess what my reaction was to my mom, beings that I'm such a non-free-thinker and all. My reaction was along the lines of immediately thinking in anger toward her, "That's the last I'll be telling you stuff like that." And, then I went on to contemplate what it'd be like to be God, of course knowing He knew my every thought. I went through all sorts of different scenarios and realized I'd be quite bad at it. And, you'd realize that for yourself, too, if you could truly think it through. Yeah, I'm sure not a free-thinker.
Santa Claus - yeah that was a no-brainer from the get go wasn't it? I'm not impressed. And, my parents still act like he's real. Yeah, I'm so not a free-thinker to realize what's real and what's not - and you know, to really critically think through my beliefs. But, seriously nothing wrong with being a sheep. If you happen on the right path without putting much thought into it - power to you. If you get "indoctrinated" into true stuff - power to you. Awfully too bad if you can't comprehend it that way. But, it's also true that if your beliefs don't have a lot of depth, you can be ripped off the right path pretty easy. I suppose especially if someone convinces you that you've been indoctrinated, and somehow that in and of itself is proof that what you believe is false. Rubbish. So, I've got lots of depth due to decades of lots of deep thinking - but you know, that certainly makes a person not a free-thinker.
You most definitely are shackled to your religion - and yes, you do have one. The fact that you apparently don't see it makes it all the worse. If you could see it, at least you'd have a chance at being a free-thinker.
Hang in there Sheila, you'll get it eventually.
I still wish you well.
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For Lionheart,
Yeah, I've had it for a long time. Maybe sometime you will, too. And, we are all ONE so of course I wish you well. Unfortunately, you probably don't comprehend that either.
A religionist is someone who believes their rellgion to be superior to all others in the same way as a racist believes their race to be superior to all others. This is the case with Borowicz.
Let's not forget that immediately after Borowicz spoke, then a Muslim cleric gave a prayer in Arabic. So If you want to remove one religion then remove them all.
Exactly, this country is based on freedom of speech too, not just religion?? Not all people have the eloquence they maybe should have around others. That's just a matter of personality and we need to be more understanding of one another. I am of no religious sect. Stop jumping down each others throats!
Absolutely Correct! I agree completely, Alex!
What is good for one is good for ALL! "Separation" as in the Constitution, literally means the state shall NOT establish, impose or direct religion on the citizens. IE: A STATE RUN RELIGION! READ YOUR CONSTITUTION! The U.S. was founded on Judeo-Christian principals, and has ALWAYS HAD "INVOCATIONS"! "Separation" was never meant to be what it is purported to mean "today", until somewhere in abt the 60's, when it was "re-defined...
The US was established as a non-religious-centric government (remember WHY the pilgrams left ??). While Christianity's views are heavily embodied in the constitution, great effort was used to NOT put explicit religious references into the document. The 'judeo' part was added in the 50's.(or later) to be PC...
Agreed
No one is saying that one religion or the other should be banned. The problem is when religion is used as a weapon which is what what's her name was using it for. "Jesus hates you this I know, cause the bible tells me so." That's not the song I leaned in Sunday School.
Ok Greg. Wait until they get a foothold in the U.S. government. It's already happening. The blood is going to start flowing and it may just be yours and mine. They hate us. We are their sworn enemy and their ultimate plan is to destroy us as infidels. We citizens are going to pay the price for what our own government has done in their countries throughout modern times. I am not a hater, just a realist. We are indeed killing ourselves with our own kindness. You will see.
Anne, I hear what you're saying but I think you are being misinformed about the true Islamic religion. Like Christianity, there are many sects with different referendums. I don't think everyone in the Islamic faith wants to kill all infidels or even considers them there sworn enemies. At one point in history, Christianity was considered the bullies of religion during a time known as the Inquisition. I hear what you're saying but I pray you are misinformed.
Anne, meet a Sufi and your entire notion of Islam would be overturned. I have and it was. And I have met Christians and Jews that scare me. There are good and bad people in the world. Always been that way and always will until we evolve, it will always be that way. Read the Tora, read the Koran than re-read the bible. Knowledge is key. Just saying ...
Exactly
" ...then a Muslim cleric gave a prayer in Arabic. "
And tell us please, what did he say?
Allex...i just read your post...i agree there should be no reference to any religion whatsoever in any official functions of our government, as such references are prejudicial and un-American...Peace...Tom B
so why was the issue only directed at the Christian prayer? explain that one.
For the same reason that the issue is directed at you by Amy, Beth, T'Keren Valmaz, myself, and so many other people here: because you are offensive, obnoxious, and bigoted!!!
Kim...i can not answer that...i stand by what i said...bible/koran etc swearing in court should also be done away with...Peace...Tom B
Wrong - Nothing arrogant about opposing the depraved false religion of Islam and its depraved teachings - See the ironically named www.religionofpeace.com and www.chick.com
This woman struck me as one who fears that our government will fall to Islam as other governments & countries have fallen in this way. It was an opportunity for her to present her fears in prayer to God. Who am I to judge what she felt called to do in that moment? There are many among “We The People” who share her concerns. Here, our elected representatives swear an Oath of Office on the Bible. I can truly understand her fears. May God be the judge, as He founded our country.
And I thought our country was founded by some wealthy landowners who didn't want to pay taxes. If a god created the United States which god was it? My guess would be Dionysus. And if the US was founded by Dionysus I suppose all the other countries were founded by gods too. It would be fun to figure out which god created which country. But I'm skeptical about gods founding countries. I don't think they are really interested in such silliness. It's more of a human idea.
His name is: I am Read the Bible and he will show YOU who HE IS. Start in The book of JOHN. If your house wad on FIRE would you want people to tell you or let you sleep through it? Its TRUTH that sets people FREE.. NOT LIES...... Ask him to reveal himself HE WILL... THE FEAR OF THE LORD IS THE BEGINNING OF WISDOM...
My house wad is fireproof. Bought it on Amazon.
Dionysus is pretty wild with his ecstatic trances and so on but he's not known as a fire bug.
First: "I Am" is a pretty stupid name, but I've heard worse. Are you sure it wasn't a mistranslation of the name Ian? Second: I' have read the Bible and I've been shown that it's all a load of rubbish. Third: Start reading the first book Harry Potter. Much better fictional story AND great for children. Fourth: If you really want TRUTH to set you FREE, and NOT LIES, get a real education, and drop religion altogether. Fifth: Don't ask any man to reveal himself. If you do, he more than likely will, and you. might not like what he reveals. Sixth: FEAR of anyone is NOT the beginning of wisdom. FEAR is the beginning of hate, and emotional bondage.
wrong. Jesus' name was not "I am". In the old testament when Moses asked God's name (ie/surname) which meant Moses was asking who God's patriarch was God simply shrugged and said "I am what I am". Meaning that God was telling Moses, he had no predecessor. The REAL name God gave Moses was in the following passages which was "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" being their patriarchal Father. And just as God said then, Jesus said God was his patriarchal Father (not familial). Consequently, Jesus' "name" was and will always be "Son of God" or in modern vernacular "Godson". Prior to his birth, he was EVER that Son and NEVER God. Just as declared by God when he rose from the baptismal water. In isa 9:6 the phrase "his name shall be called" means "and he shall be the SON of". ie/Son of the Father. When Jesus uses "I am", he is referring to God the Father, not himself. A simple misplaced comma in the translation has allowed the lie that Jesus was "god in the flesh" (a phrase never found in the Bible) to be perpetrated. Before Abraham was I am...not "Before Abraham was,(extraneous comma) I am". The Bible is highly patriarchal and must be interpreted in that context. Not presumptively overlaid with modalism/polytheism to "prove" a Christian doctrine (trinity) that simply is never there.
Thank you for a dash of reason, and historical common sense. The founding fathers decisively create a separation between church and state. Church is private; state is public. And who supported that separation most vigorously? The Catholic and Baptist citizens. Otherwise, they would have been under the yoke of the Anglican church. The separation we now enjoy allowed them to worship as their hearts and minds saw fit. I just wish individuals today would allow their fellow citizens the same courtesy and respect. The U.S. was not originally a "Christian" nation, and it's a good thing, because it is clear in the common attitudes and actions of today that we are not.
I think you need to reexamine your history books. Most of the framers of the constitution where members of the Anglican Church and most states prior to the constitution have provision for a state sanctioned religion. It was the consensus of the framers that government corrupted religion and blocks an individual from practicing his faith in his own way. which was also underscored by Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802.
Thomas Jefferson: "Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law" "In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty."
John Adams: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"
Thomas Paine: All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
James Madison: Religion and government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together."
There is no god. There is only brainwashing and propaganda. When will people drop these silly dogmas. Santa Claus is more believable. Its scary that we have leaders of our country who are fundamental christians.Enough damage has been done in the name of god and jesus christ. And now we have muslims in office. There is supposed to be a separation of church and state. Religions of any kind have no place in government. We will never progress forward as long as people believe in fairy tales and fables. Wake up people, open your eyes and use your brains!
Finally, the wind of truth amongst all the BS. Religion is a false construct designed to shackle reason...and judging from the majority of these comments, it is working.
Like you don't have a religion. How arrogantly absurd!
What is arrogantly absurd about not having a religion? Please can you explain?
Bob and Lionheart...I agree with both of you...at its best, religion is an opiate for the masses; at its worse, it is divisive, prejudiced and destructive...to lead a good life, it is simply necessary to be loving, compassionate and forgiving...there is no need for religion to live like that...Peace...Tom B
Joseph...please correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that whenever i state that religion is not good, i am moderated...Tom
atheism is a religion. one has to have faith to prove non-existence without evidence. Consider that most atheists acknowledge the existence of extra terrestrial life in spite of there being no evidence there is. Logically then atheists contradict themselves by rejecting God. The ultimate extra terrestrial. Sure, religion is a contrived and false construct. It usually contradicts the Bible. But, the Bible isn't contrived and remains a viable indication of God. One should rightly reject religion and all its trappings but that does not justify rejection of the Bible or the existence of God.
Atheism is not a religion Kim, and I don’t have any concrete evidence that extra terrestrials exist. It would be nice if they did, just as it would be nice if God’s existed, but being as no one can currently prove either exist, or the Loch Ness Monster, or Sasquatch, we have to assume they don’t.
For Lionheart You ask, "What is arrogantly absurd about not having a religion? Please can you explain?" Religion is this: "a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance." You've most certainly got that. EVERYONE does, including you.The arrogantly absurd part about claiming one doesn't have a religion rests in circular thinking residing in no clout whatsoever. The implication about the word "religion" is that somehow whatever it is that's being called a "religion" is not real. Thus, if you supposedly don't have a religion, then whatever it is that your beliefs are, they are real. Then what in the world are you going to call it when it turns out that some "religion" was completely right on and is completely real - it was that each and everyone of its followers were just a little off in one way or another of interpreting said "religion"? And, then what will you call it when your supposed "non religious" beliefs turn out to be poppycock - far beyond missing the mark of reality than ANY of the believers were in interpreting it a little wrong?
In short, what are you going it call it if a recognized "religion" turns out to be reality; and what are you going to call it when your supposed "non religious" beliefs turn out to be poppycock?
My point is "religion" isn't something that's necessarily false - and everybody's got it, including you. And, yes, it's arrogantly absurd if you think you don't.
For Sheila
To me, it is totally absurd that anyone can believe in anything that cannot be demonstrated to be true.
If I tell you I believe Sasquatch really exists, it’s for me to prove that belief, not for you to try and disprove it.
If I tell you that I believe fairies really exist, it is again for me to prove it.
This doesn’t mean Sasquatch and fairies don’t exist, because it’s possible they do.
Currently, I find those two beliefs absurd, along with the belief you have of your god, but of course I’m willing to accept I could be wrong and could change my mind once someone can demonstrate they do exist.
The question is, are you willing to believe you could be wrong? Where is your evidence that fairies and Sasquatch are real? Are you waiting for evidence to prove that they are real before you believe? If so, what is the difference between those two myths, and your mythical god?
atheism is indeed a religion. it involves faith in ignorance. However, even an atheist (as you've demonstrated) thinks that truth exists without any evidence of that existence. Can you honestly say that truth of which we don't know or understand doesn't exist? Truth is absolute, universal, incomprehensible in its entirety and completely singular. It is NOT an accumulation of factual data. Even science postulates the existence of everything possible/probable with the theory of infinite universes which parallels the philosophical existence of absolute Truth. Consequently, atheism is a religion.
Wrong Kim. Secular humanists don’t believe in ignorance. Quite the opposite. We believe in factual data that can be demonstrated over and over. Unlike Christians, Jews, et al that only rely on faith. Now “that” is ignorance.
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your belief is irrelevant since it can easily be based on pure fantasy, and reliance on fact alone never ever leads to absolute truth since an infinite accumulation of fact is beyond human capability. Such a belief is simply justification for ignoring philosophical logic which chooses the acknowledgement of existence over non-existence in the unknown every time (for example....extraterrestrials "must" exist). And what has been hardwired into the human genome since mankind's beginning is that God exists. Even the most primitive peoples acknowledge some kind of god. As an entity mankind universally acknowledges the existence of God. Regardless of a few obtuse individuals. The problem comes from trying to define God. Not from whether to acknowledge existence or non-existence.
Kim...Respectfully, the "existence" of "God" is an entirely separate issue from the fact that religions are divisive, prejudiced and destructive...Peace...Tom B
Tom God is never a separate issue, "There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, Who is over all and through all and in all." (Eph 4:4-6).
God is inescapable, and so never a separate issue.
Don't you just love it when people quote paragraphs from a book of fiction as though we are all meant to believe it came from a deity.
These sayings are just as powerful, and possibly more meaningful:
You are protected, in short, by your ability to love! — Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince)
It is impossible to manufacture or imitate love. – Professor Slughorn (Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince)
It takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to your enemies, but just as much to stand up to your friends. – Albus Dumbledore (Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone)
The ones that love us never really leave us. – Sirius Black (Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban)
For Lionheart: Philippians 4:8 New International Version (NIV) "Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
So yeah, I've not a problem with finding truth elsewhere and everywhere. Ya found it in Harry Potter books? Whoo hoo - awesome! I've not a problem with it. Yet, you've definitely some bugaboo about the Bible. That's just stupidity that knows no bounds. You seek so desperately to cling to your beliefs of reality that are set in your invention created to fulfill your various psychological and emotional wants and/or needs. Yet, what you're accomplishing is lack of depth in your thinking. Unfortunately your erroneously find it worth it to do that.
No Shiela, I quote Harry Potter purely to let you see how often and absurd anything can be referencing books of fiction and calling them words of truth, and that's the only reason. I'm amazed you didn't see my stating Harry Potter as tongue-in-cheek. You can quote as many passages as you want from your book, and I'll reply with passages from different books, just for fun. There are some very nice passages to ponder in both books aren't there to make one think. Equally, there are some very nasty bits that don't bare giving any thought to at all.
Rumi has some very nice quotes as well that you might want to consider. Here's a nice quote from Rumi:
“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.”
Here are two more: “Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, so I am changing myself.”
“Ignore those that make you fearful and sad, that degrade you back towards disease and death.”
Be well, Shiela
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For Lionheart: You say, "Be well, Shiela" - yeah, that's good. But, I'd be better if you spelled my name correctly. You say, "...I quote Harry Potter purely to let you see how often and absurd anything can be referencing books of fiction and calling them words of truth, and that’s the only reason." Yeah, I realized you were calling the Bible a book of fiction. I thought you'd know I knew that, but that by my response, I was undaunted by it. But, of course it is awfully too bad you don't realize the Bible is nonfiction.
Nevertheless, you failed at showing me it's ever absurd to reference truth regardless of source.
As for Rumi - it appears to be truthful stuff. Nice. And, if it so happens he really didn't say that stuff and someone's fibbing by attributing it to him - well fortunately it doesn't make the information any less true.
It's in your best interest to realize that you’ve definitely some bugaboo about the Bible - I mean such as that whole need to call it a book of fiction; and attempt at sarcasm comparing it to books of fiction. You do seek so desperately to cling to your beliefs of reality that are set in your invention created to fulfill your various psychological and emotional wants and/or needs. Your thoughts are shallow to not be in touch with the reality of this, and you do so in error.
But, I do wish you well. We are all ONE.
Sorry for spelling your name wrong Sheila. I was thinking that i is before e unless after h. ?
Try not to take things in life too seriously, unless it's a life or death situation. Life is too short, and is more than likely the only one we have. It's here to enjoy and show love while ever we can. That's only my theory, you don't have to believe that. I have no evidence to prove that statement. But it sounds nice, so I might write that down in a book for someone to read many years from now. They might actually think a god said it, who knows?
Peace!
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Lionheart Thank you for the apology about my name.
You said, "It’s [Life is] here to enjoy and show love while ever we can." "They might actually think a god said it, who knows?" God did say that: "Love others as I have loved you" (John 15:12) "And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me.’" (Mt. 25:40) "God loves a cheerful giver" (2 Cor. 9:11) "Joy" it's one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit - and "Love" too - and 7 other fruits of course. (Galatians 5:22-23)
And, christians don't do it to be saved (unless it's a christian who wrongly believes otherwise) but because it's the fruit of being christian.
The Bible - it's all in there. But, I'd be surprised if Harry Potter has not got it, too.
And yes, you want to do it while you can. Because if you find yourself on the wrong side of the chasm, there's regret and no longer a way to share your concern that it not happen to someone else. (Luke 16:27-31)
Chris Otterbein April 3, 2019 at 9:36 am " And now we have muslims in office. There is supposed to be a separation of church and state. "
I'm confused. In your use of "separation of church and state", are you implying only agnostics or atheists, i.e. non-religious people, should be allowed to be in public office?
I doubt that will ever happen, but it would be a step in the right direction knowing politicians don't believe in mythical tales, and fables for their daily inspiration.
To Sheila...Respectfully...I disagree...I do not consider the ULC a religion...to me it is a recognition that all of us are equal, and should treat each other as such...that is not religion; it is spiritual...bibles, baptisms, etc are from the intellects of people...religions are like corporations; they are created by individuals or governments...and "God"" is not anthroporrmorphic (nor "Father")..."God" is the totality of existence of everything (which is also why there is no difference between evolution and creation)...Peace...Tom B
actually God is "Father" in a patriarchal sense. And, perceiving God as an extension of nature is making a god that is of human making. The perspective should be that God is extra-natural. Not supernatural. My impression is that ULC doesn't recognize equality but does recognize differences. We should do the same with equal respect.
Steffie - Given that the US is a secular society/government, why are you afraid of Islam, especially since they worship the same deity as you and other Christians and Jews?
If a Muslim is sworn into office, should he or she use the Bible, or do you find the Qur'an suitable? What about atheists? Do you have a problem with them not using any book?
Not attacking, but asking so I can understand your perception better.
Please keep your nonsense out of my liberties. I didn't serve in the Army so that selfish white women could trample on the rights of those with different beliefs.
I served in the Navy so that 'selfish white woman' as you put it, or anyone else can say what they feel is right or even wrong.
The 1st Amendment guarantees it. But that does not mean we have to listen to it. If you do not like what an elected official saids, vote against them. But do not try to change the constitution to suit your needs because you will have a problem with me.
Awesome prayer by her !!! I mean truly why attack her for what she believes? She prayed for us to turn from our wicked ways - and that'd include herself. "Forgive us" - yes, Jesus please forgive us for judging unbelievers that Paul told us not to do. Quit attacking people. Instead look for Philippians 8:4 NIV "Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things." Sure it seems her intent is obvious to attack Muslim beliefs of a particular Muslim - but I'm looking for what's right with the prayer. Then throw what's right about her prayer in her face - not meanly, but matter-of-factly of what I heard that her prayer means. And, it'd be wonderful to explain to Movita Johnson-Harrell what it means - if she'd listen. And, what'd be cool is if we made it a practice to use that prayer after the swearing in of ANYONE. It's got somber thoughts for the person being sworn in - all of us are sinners. (Yes, people are allowed to believe otherwise; & I support that freedom - but do you support my freedom to believe I'm right?)
Sheila - What wicked ways?
What do you mean, "if she would listen"? Are you saying Ms. Johnson-Harrell would be blind to listening to another's perspective?
Yes, you can believe that you are right, but if someone disagrees with you does not mean they are wrong? You are talking about subjective issues, a.k.a. religious faith, NOT facts. Passive-aggressive attitudes are not healthy, especially in governmental issues, imho.
Dan - "What wicked ways?" Well - it doesn't specifically state what Bible passage Rep. Stephanie Borowicz was using. But I'm guessing she's referring to 2 Chronicles 7:14 along the lines of "If My people, who are called by My name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." To further decipher, biblically there are only 2 ways - explained in different ways in the Bible. One of the passages is Deut. 30:19 along the lines of, " I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,". Anything leading to "death" in the full biblical sense of the word which can be summed up as the word "sin" - any of that is a wicked way. Another place I can think of that greatly describes the life path, and therefore the opposite is the wicked ways path is Mark 9:40 along the lines of Jesus saying, "for whoever is not against us is for us." So, biblically speaking, anyone who is for Jesus and His disciples (everyone following Jesus is a disciple) - is on the path of life. And well, the opposite would be a wicked way.
You asked what do I mean by "if she would listen?" Really? Isn't EVERYONE that's not Jesus Christ of Nazareth guilty of NOT listening? So, yeah, I think there's most definitely been times that Ms. Johnson-Harrell has been blind to listening to another’s perspective. It gets more difficult to listen when you've personally got a bugaboo about the topic to start off with. And, based on the reaction of a whole lot of people to Rep. Stephanie Borowicz - in that they were having a bugaboo about it; I'm thinking Ms. Johnson-Harrel has a bugaboo about it, too, since she was the targeted person. So yeah, that's what I mean by "if she would listen." What did you think?
You asked, "...if someone disagrees with you does not mean they are wrong?" Well, if I think I'm right, then yeah, I'm going to think the other person is wrong. And, it goes vice versa. There's different scenarios of what the truth really is. But, the point is supporting the freedom of others to have their beliefs. Support my freedom to believe I'm right and support my freedom to believe another is wrong. And, support the freedom of another to believe the absolute opposite of what I believe to be true.
You also said, "Passive-aggressive attitudes are not healthy, especially in governmental issues." What are you talking about? How does that specifically pertain to anything I said?
What was suggested in her very own Bible about prayer? That it should be in one's closet, NOT a public display of arrogance.
Apparently, the concept of compassion or simple empathy is not in her area of expertise. This was not her time, but a time for the swearing in of a Muslim woman, someone who prays to the same God of Abraham as the Jews and Christians.
If you want to quote the Bible, it would help if you knew it. All, yes ALL, the prayers you'll find in the Bible were spoken in public and there are thousands. Mrs. Borowicz was asked to publicly pray in the assembly.
A one minute prayer could not possibly be disrespectful or weaponized, unless it was a prayer to bring judgment and failure upon someone. It wasn't, so what are you really trying to accomplish with this outrage? Repeating an answered prayer, which 2 Chronicles 7:14 is an answer to prayer, it is not judgment. It is the contractual result of repentance for healing... the very thing we need all across America.
Think you misspelled your name.. that D should be a K? You're welcome ;-)
No one should be praying on the floor of the state legislature, it's the government of the people (all of them), not just Muslim, Christians, or any other singular religion. Someone should have stopped her as soon as she started. I think she is trying to tell the public that she only makes laws for Christians.
I am a former native citizen of Chester Pennsylvania. I am now a registered democratic voter in the state of Delaware. I am a Moabite-Moorish Christian. The display of ignorance of the Christian Scriptures, "love one another as I have loved you" (Jesus Christ Teachings for his Followers) was truly misinterpreted by one of our christian sister in Christ. Also, the Holy Quran has been another light of understanding that 'there should be no compulsion in religious faiths'. It has also taught us that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has been in the company of our Prophet Muhammad and his followers for protection from others who wanted to kill him. In closing remarks, I can only leave my sister in Christ-Rep. Stephanie Borowicz a quote/scripture in Jesus Christ Words' of Life....1) lean not on thy own understanding and, 2) study to show thyself approved rightly dividing the word of truth....
Go live with them Embrace Islam Let's see how that works out for you
Prayers are the key to those praying to God for forgiveness. Christ Jesus died for our sins in the world of sadness. At the end of a prayer say 'Amen' which expresses approval at the end of a prayer.
It all fallacious Yanel. We don’t even know that any god exists, so why speak words to an imaginary friend that’s all in your head? In fact, worse still, there is no real evidence that the Jesus you reference ever existed. I’m not saying he didn’t, and I’m not saying he did, because currently, we don’t really know.
It is about time someone stands up for the truth and the what is right. She is right we are letting those that do not proclaim the Almighty into office and sooner or later we will be run by those people ISIS. Her prayer was the truth.
Rudeness was Harrell wearing religious gear to the ceremony when none of that was worn while she was campaigning for the position.
God bless Stephanie Borowicz for proclaiming the truth. I pray that all who hear this message will be changed by the power of God unto salvation through the work of Jesus Christ. Amen!
Kathryn Reed, would you also be saying "God bless" anyone who prayed a Muslim or Hindu prayer to overrule, disrespect, negate, and minimize a Christian representative or Senator upon their claiming their seat in Congress or is your praising God for this offensiveness only reserved for "Christians" doing that to Muslims or others?!! How is such offensiveness in any way following Jesus' teaching "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" when you wouldn't want that to be done to you?!! Jesus said that loving your neigbors as yourself and loving God were the two pegs on which the whole law hangs and this offensiveness isn't loving your neighbor as yourself.