It's been 44 years since the U.S. Supreme Court decided to extend a woman's right to privacy to include the decision to have an abortion. However, the issue only seems to have become more divisive over time. Every year since the 1973 decision, opponents of abortion have marched in protest of the court's ruling and attempted to pass regulations restricting the practice. In certain extreme cases, anti-abortion activists have even murdered doctors and employees of clinics that provide the service.
This brings us to 2017, where abortion sits atop the list of controversial political issues.
Abortion for Immigrants?
Earlier this month, a 17-year-old undocumented immigrant made headlines when she was granted the right to receive an abortion. The teen, who was being held in a Texas detention facility by immigration authorities, tried to schedule an abortion. Initially, however, the request was blocked by the Trump administration. Federal officials claimed that she had no right to an elective abortion in the United States because she was in the country illegally. Moreover, federal attorneys argued, it was in the government's interest to promote childbirth and fetal life.
Not ready to back down, the teen (going by the pseudonym Jane Doe) filed an appeal in federal court. The court eventually ruled in her favor, and she was given the go-ahead to terminate the pregnancy. Looking back, Jane Doe explained her decision to seek an abortion:
"When I was detained, I was placed in a shelter for children. It was there that I was told I was pregnant. I knew immediately what was best for me then, as I do now that I'm not ready to be a parent. I made my decision, and that is between me and God. Through all of this, I have never changed my mind."
Naturally, the story provoked a range of reactions. Pro-choice activists hailed it as an example of the law protecting women's privacy and giving them autonomy over their own bodies. Pro-life voices, on the other hand, expressed outrage that an immigrant was allowed to cross the border illegally and receive an abortion in the U.S.
New Rules Up North
Of course, abortion controversy isn't exclusive to the United States. In fact, earlier this week, the Canadian province of Ontario took a firm stance by banning protests outside of abortion clinics. The law specifies that clinics and pharmacies that offer pregnancy-ending pills must have a 50-meter "safe zone" not to be breached by protestors. What's more, the law extends further to include a safe zone around the homes of employees working at any Ontario clinic, and protects the individuals wherever they go. Violators of the new law could receive a fine of up to $3,000 Canadian dollars ($5,000 USD) and up to six months in prison for a first offense. Fines for second or third offenses could reach $10,000 ($7,800 USD) or more, and include up to a year in jail.
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The Heartbeat Question
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Legislation seeking to restrict abortions or otherwise reduce access to abortion services has been a constant in U.S. politics over the years. The most recent example is a proposed bill called the Heartbeat Protection Act of 2017, which would ban all abortions once a fetal heartbeat can be detected (usually around the six weeks-mark).
Opponents of the bill are quick to point out that the term "heartbeat" is misleading because the heart is not developed at such an early stage, and the beat itself comes from motion within one side of the embryo's yolk sac. On top of this inaccuracy, the supposed "heartbeat" occurs before many women even know that they're pregnant effectively making it impossible to receive an abortion under such a policy.
Where Do We Go From Here?
There's no doubt abortion will remain controversial for years to come, but perhaps the above cases can provide some new angles in this ongoing debate. Should a detained immigrant be able to get an abortion in the United States or be forced to give birth? Do "safe zones" around clinics protect women and staff from harassment and potential violence, or do they take the freedom of speech away from those who are pro-life? And what about the Heartbeat Protection Act? Is it a deceptive bill meant to underhandedly outlaw abortion, or merely a good-faith attempt to lower abortion rates?
Sound off below!
150 comments
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Miranda Allison Young
Every woman who wants an abortion, for whatever reason, should be able to get one as soon as she asks for it. There should be no waiting period, no need for permission from anyone else, including parents, and cost for it. She should also get for free any medical treatment she needs and psychological counseling that she needs. This is the only way that this subject should be addressed.
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Rick Pascal
OK, it's with Miranda that I agree 100%
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Todd
When a 15yr old needs permission from a parent to have a cavity filled but not for an abortion, there is obviously an issue.
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Jim D.
Wait. Miranda, did you say there should be no cost for the abortion? Why? Anything medical procedure I have done I or my insurance company has to pay for. Why should abortion be free? Or am I reading you post incorrectly?
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Elizabeth Bailey
I would add that taxpayers should not have to foot the bill unless they want to. There is enough money around for funding abortions without making people pay for it against their conscience.
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Daniel
Short of being raped she should have kept her reproductive organ to herself. The choice started when you did not take your own life. Shame it has to be that way!.
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Jan
Suicide is a sin. Amazed that you don't know that
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Daniel
Jan: God decides what sin is and his son Jesus Died for your sins before you or I was born. I stated was the choice started when they did not take their own life and shame it has to be that way. Taking your own life would be your freewill taking your own life and that is not murder it is just killing yourself. Imposing her freewill to commit murder discarding the new life a God entrusted her with is an abomination.
Sin has nothing to do with it. It is the forcing of ones free will upon another that is weaker.
Maybe Mother Mary should have had an abortion of the Jesus fetus since she had no choice in the mater. She was told she will give birth to the son of God. She was not asked if she would like to have Gods son.
So no, If a female don't want a baby she should kill herself. Read your bible, any bible, any religious book of those times. from beginning to end even the satanic bible, You get pregnant you have the kid regardless not your choice. Raped, not your choice, incest, not your choice, how a female becomes pregnant is some times her choice but most of the time it is not. Although she may like the sins of the flesh from time to time giving it to the man with all her freewill, she don't want a kid but gets knocked up anyway, that is Gods will right there. .
A females only biblical choice is to take her own life because of the original sin of her kind.
But now they can have many procedures to not get knocked up in the first place and now circumvents Gods will with her freewill and runs out and has an abortion so she can do it again on her terms not Gods just like in the garden of first sin!
Again, Its a Shame it has to be that way!
Such is life. I can take any side to have a dialog on this subject in such a forum as this all encompassing religious/non-religious forum.
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Jan
So are you suggesting that God's decisions as to what things are to be considered sins is arbitrary?
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Daniel
With Gods gift of Freewill and the death of Jesus Christ for all sin, God’s decisions as to what things are to be considered sins is arbitrary.
What is not arbitrary is Freewill, Jesus, Worship, Death, Eternal life and where you will spend it come Judgement day.
I will explain;
What I am saying is God defined sin. God gave us Freewill to use at our own peril. God is the Judge. In lue of God cleansing the earth as in the past, God sent Jesus to suffer for humanity. It is the agreement made with Gods only begotten son and the terms there in that are relevant and when abiding to that agreement in it's terms and to those terms only. In that agreement Jesus suffered for all of humanity forgiving all sin conditioned only that whosoever believeth in him shall not parish but have everlasting live. It was an unconditional contract to save humanity from its sins.
It did not state where that eternal life would be spent. It states you will have that everlasting life if you believe. So if you want to have everlasting life in heaven or walking with Jesus you need to meet the bar to get there. Otherwise if you believe come Judgment day and fail to make the cut then you would spend your eternal life in damnation. If you believe in nothing then you become nothing upon death and judgment day.
The punishment of sin is death, that's it, but through Believing that Jesus suffered that death for your sins you get eternal life, where you spend it is up to GOD come judgement day.
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Eric k
This is absolutely correct, this should be done no questions asked, if its not the law it should be
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John Maher
YEP, YEP,and YEP to MIRANDA and ERIC, it is WHAT it is and WHAT it is IS YOURS, MOTHERS BODY, MOTHERS FETUS !!! DUMP the ORANGUtRUMP DOTAR !!!
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Terry
Early abortion is the woman's choice, no doubt. After 20 weeks and the fetus has developed into a child that is murder. This is as simple as that. If you believe it is anyone's right to take another's life then your take is understandable. Not correct, but it is your obtuse opinion...
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Anna Brown
only because you keep repeating yourself, I am reposting a response: A 20 WEEK OLD FETUS IS NOT VIABLE!
Sharon E. Cathcart November 1, 2017 at 9:12 am
The majority of fetal anomalies cannot even be detected prior to 20 weeks’ gestation, and no 20-week fetus is viable.
Furthermore, murder is the unlawful taking of a person’s life with malice aforethought. Abortion fails this definition on at least two levels right off the bat. I’m sure they can figure out what they are …
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Daniel
Anna Brown, Sharon E. Cathcart; What did God say about this? If he knew you before you was in your mothers womb, was the life not viable before conception? If Jesus died for your sins before you where born is not the unborn life viable in his eyes?
When God determines life is not viable then god will remove that from the face of the earth as it is Gods will. It is mankind's misguided freewill that removes life outside the laws of nature with regards to reproductive live.
So not on my dime. It is her freewill that don't mean free money to exercise her freewill!. I did not intercourse. I did not have any active roll in her unwanted pregnancy. I did not supply the sperm or egg. Why should I through my tax money pay for her choice regardless of that choice. If she don't want the kid, give it the church or something no questions asked.
If prolife would sign on to a list and post funds to take a unwanted into their home, care and nurture it to adult hood with no aid from the state of fed then you have a true prolife party. And we all know that won't happen anytime soon.
Now the prochoice crowd should all build a prochoice to kill fund and provide money for all those that want to have an abortion, no aid from the state or fed. We all know that ain't; going to happen either.
In other words each side is looking for the other to fund it's position regarding the unwanted gift God planted in the womb
The answers to when life starts in in the word of God of your religion if you have one. So to you will find the answer to when is life a viable life.
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James
There are pros & cons to this topic & the 3 comments posted so far. But, give ppl free services (post & pre). Lets just open up government run, gov paid penis injections / get preg site (there will always be abusers of any programs) right next to Gov run, gov paid "safe" injection sites. Lets also open up a pot program where ppl can get high for free. Once again, at the tax payers expense. Oh yes, all these ppl are gonna need health care. Lets get another program for that & bill the tak payer. Where is the evolutionary filter to remove abusers from the gene pool as universal law may dictate right / wrong in any given situation. Some will experience the laws of cause & effect sooner, other later when it comes to ones own personal judgment day. Where shall government & others dictate who can do what & when? What is wrong or right? Phaneron shall apply to each perspective. PS: Lets get more gov programs & subsidies going to pay for the real-estate empire "for profit" sports companies (teams). AND, lets put all the private recycling companies out of business & pass laws preventing any competition. Where is gov intervention to stop when it comes to paving a predetermined path to any given destination? If ppl wish to make poor choices in ANY aspect of life there is a point where stupidity can not be regulated & controlled.
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D. L. Hatch
American tax payers should not have to pay for any abortion, let alone one for an illegal immigrant, regardless of the person's age. It would appear to be an elective surgery, one NOT necessary to spare the mother's life, as liberals so often pontificate. The valueless determination of a human fetus (potential baby) is what is contributing to the fall of civilization--no morals seems to be the non-religious path for some.
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Chase
Abortion can never save the life of a mother having complications with pregnancy you say? I noticed you're a man
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D. L. Hatch
The Internet is wonderful; being a man or a woman and staking claim to any name I can create--it would not be the first time a woman used a male name or vice versa.
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Vince Nichols
I'm sorry, I don't know how admitting that you lie makes your original comment accurate in any way.
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Alyx Fraust
It doesn't, my doctors daughter is also a doctor, her field is dealing with fetuses that develope health problems long before they leave the womb. He asked me a simple question, "if you found out the child you were carrying only had half a heart or only half the brain was developing, would you want to be forced to carry that child to term knowing the odds were very high it would die either in birth or shortly after?" My answer is no I would not, nor do I feel it is my place to tell any woman what to do with her body, even my wife if she got pregnant (which would be odd since I cannot have kids myself) I would be there to listen to her, give her the support she needed to make her choice, but in the end I would stand behind her choice.
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Jerry
I think abortion should be a choice and it is actually a moral stand fallacy in my opinion to force a woman to have a baby in many cases. In one hand, your stand claims a stand by "value" and on the other, wants to force an outcome against one's will (such a contradiction - the second is nowhere close to comply with religious ideals). There may be many reasons to push for an abortion, health of the mother included (then who is to chose?), many special circumstances cases (sorry but I am not ready to force my "moral" values on a raped woman as an example), and socio-economic issues (unless we come up with stronger safety nets, I do not see how we can force a woman to have a child if she is in precarious financial stability). However, I would put a time limit after which abortion has to be decided on a case-per-case basis (impact on mother's life would still be on my list of acceptable reasons and I would not impose to make that decision, the mother should).
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Terry
Early abortion is the woman's choice, no doubt. After 20 weeks and the fetus has developed into a child that is murder. This is as simple as that. If you believe it is anyone's right to take another's life then your take is understandable. Not correct, but it is your obtuse opinion...
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toni ortiz
Go to Texas then and stand there and overturn the death penalty. Those are fully formed human beings that being murdered.
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D. L. Hatch
Convicted murderers committed a crime; unborn babies committed no crime.
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Casey
Yeah, Donald or Marie or Osmand or whatever you're calling yourself these days, but those babies didn't not commit one either. They haven't done anything; they aren't born
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Jerry
I do not believe I stated it is anyone's right to take a life (hyperbolic do not help the debate nor attributing beliefs and meanings to what I said by ending your argument with an accusatory statement). My points are simply summarized as (a) I do indeed strongly feel that there should be NO interference with the mother's choice up to some number of weeks [please note that I did not even define that number in my post, only spoke of a time limit] (b) after that time limit, I STILL believe there are cases that need considerations - and if it is down to a choice between the mother's or child life, I am committed to live this choice to the mother, not to me nor will I leave this to a panel of "righteous" (likely men) making such decision.
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Todd
It is fiscally responsible to pay for an abortion over paying for lifelong care of that same fetus for the next 5+ decades. It is also fiscally responsible to pay for birth control for the same reasons. Leaving religion and morality arguments aside, no one can deny this fact.
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Athiest Lite
Let's be truly conservative here. The woman was a detainee, so she could not move to a place where she could take advantage of her rights. She was illegal, but if she had had the child, it would have been a citizen, so you would have had to pay for prenatal care as well as post natal care, and the mother would have been eligible for a variety of government benefits. So which would you prefer the government pay? $20K+ to deliver the baby, or $5K to provide an abortion. While I would not want to force abortions, I will always vote to allow the government to pay for an abortion. I honestly think that all abortions performed in the US should be automatically covered by the government, regardless of the status of the mother. It makes perfect economic sense, and in the long term, helps reduce other social problems.
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Sharon E. Cathcart
American tax payers don't pay for abortions. Look up the Hyde Amendment on your own time.
PS: Pregnancy is not a state of wellness. Women's lives are saved by abortion on a daily basis.
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Tom
If your religion or you personally do not above of abortion, do not get one. Move on. Abortion is legal and passing laws to make it difficult to obtain these services amounts to obstruction of justice. Move on!
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Terry
Early abortion is the woman's choice, no doubt. After 20 weeks and the fetus has developed into a child that is murder. This is as simple as that. If you believe it is anyone's right to take another's life then your take is understandable. Not correct, but it is your obtuse opinion...
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Tom
I am not asking about time limits. Naturally, if a fetus is able to survive on it's own, you have another question. But, generally speaking, in my view, until it is born, it is a fetus, not a child. Stop making it difficult for women to do what is legal. If you com it approve of abortion, do not get one. Period! Let's all start minding our own business. I find it interesting that the majority of the people talking about this, including on this site, are men. Men do not, and will never, have an abortion. Stop it guys, you know very little about the subject.
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D. L. Hatch
So fathers do not have any rights?
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Tom
Only if they choose to exercise them. However, all too often men disappear when the rabbit dies and do not step up to the plate to support mother or child. Hence, women seek abortions because they cannot support themselves or their child inn their own. The decision to have children should have been had by both parties before the fun began, not after the fact. Sadly, men and women do not engage in this conversation ahead of time. All too often the men that helped create this fetus are absent and glad to be so. You know this to be true!
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Kathleen Baird
Why did you post the identical comment at least 4 times?
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Sharon E. Cathcart
Dude, spamming the same comment over and over does not suddenly make your assertion factual. It just makes you look kind of jerky.
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Milton
RESPONSE TO THIS ARTICLE:
You can be pro-choice or pro-life, that is your right. If and when the time comes for you to have a child, you can make that decision for yourself. But, this does not give you the right to infringe on other people's choice. Your position is irrelevant to their decision. If someone close to you is pro-choice and you are pro-life, your best option is either adopt the baby for yourself or find a home for the child.
Now, it becomes an issue when the government gets involved. You should have the option to contribute funding for either position, but it should never be mandatory. The reaction to this from the pro-choice party typically says that programs like Planned Parenthood need funding therefore the government needs to take action. Although the intentions are good, the methods are bad. When you remove government intervention from these types of programs, you allow the free market to thrive and create non-profit organizations as financial backing for programs like Planned Parenthood.
People aren't against the purpose of Planned Parenthood, but rather the method of funding. Less government intervention means more free market funding. The individual gets to decide what programs they want to contribute to, and not by government enforcement.
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toni ortiz
Do you receive Social Security or Medicare?
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Milton
No, and I never will. I am against those programs. They served a purpose when they were first created and have since them become near useless. Again, the principle argument is that the free market can do a better job a generating effective programs rather than putting the government in charge of the task.
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Chase
Scott Philip Roeder was so pro-life. Audience: "how pro-life was he??" Scott Philip Roeder was so pro-life, he committed murder!
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Dr asha sharma
This is a personal choice we need to place our attention in putting God The One Almighty back in our society, restore faith love for all rid the self Ego of negativity and focus on the positive things the world has to offer us all
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Cecilia Burton
I worked at an abortion clinic many yrs ago. The women that come in for abortions, do not do so lightly, they have weighed the pros and cons and sometimes it's the only choice. We've had as young as 12yrs old and mentally disabled children/adults come in who have been raped by a relative/a neighbor/an employee, why should they have these babies, when these babies will end up in foster care or adoption. There are so many children in foster care and adoption all ready, who is going to take care of these babies and support them, I know I don't have the financial means to. Are these protesters willing to give up part of their paycheck to support these babies/children. Let these protesters volunteer at an abortion clinic fro one day/ listen to the women stories and see the heartache they go through,. Do not judge them , until you walk in their shoes.
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Terry
Early abortion is the woman's choice, no doubt. After 20 weeks and the fetus has developed into a child that is murder. This is as simple as that. If you believe it is anyone's right to take another's life then your take is understandable. Not correct, but it is your obtuse opinion...
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Alyx Fraust
papawterry your message has gotten very old.
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Jerry
Just realized indeed that the same message (I saw following my own post) is being posted again and again. Perhaps a spam?
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Elizabeth Bailey
Cecilia, I have never come across information about or knowledge of any pro-lifer adopting these babies themselves. They holler all day long but do not help the "lives they want to save".
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Merry Christmas to All!!!
those cases are very specific and compassion should be there to support the mothers and children-to-be. If the decision is to sacrifice the child to save the mother, or to save both, that should be weighed very carefully... and its about 'saving' a life...
But please do not dismiss the thousands of cases that are truly for convenience - the sob story might be there - but its truly for convenience ...
abortion should be the last option 'to save a life of mother or child-to-be' - not a solution for convenience / or to fix a wrong / or for any other reason ....
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Al
It's funny that the mothers of all these pro abortionists didn't have an abortion
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Kay
Dear Al, You have definitely missed the point. All of the pro-choice arguments are legitimate, but there is one argument that needs to be front and center- every child deserves to be wanted.
Having been an unwanted child myself, I know what I am talking about. My alcoholic mother should never have been allowed to conceive much less have a child. The hell that was my life when with her has taken more than fifty years to get beyond. I guess you believe I deserved to be physically and mentally abused in worse conditions than you possibly can imagine.-
Lea Weisenbach
My heart goes out to you..I've seen to much of this. Namaste
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Jerry
My best thoughts and wishes for an ever brighter path and future ahead goes to you - it is good to read that you are getting past and beyond and I hope your experience and with your help, others will may be helped. Thank you for the courage to tell us your own ordeal and by then, showing a point of view I had not considered. Kind blessings.
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Sharon E. Cathcart
It's funny how you don't understand the concept of choice. That includes the choice to gestate.
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Jaded Mage
seriously I can't believe this is still a debate.
This is a personal decision and completely up to the person that is pregnant.
If you are pro life, by all means, do not have an abortion. but do not force your beliefs on another person, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO FORCE YOUR BELIEFS ON ANOTHER PERSON, face it and get over it already. Unless you are going to pay for that child from birth to adulthood, STFU and STFD!
If you are pro choice and feel there is no other option, by all means, have an abortion.
we need to keep the option of abortion. But we also need to educate people that there ARE other things they can do. Abortion is not the only thing a person can do.
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Merry Christmas to All!!!
this is NOT about a belief - its about right and wrong - and about responsibilities -
abortion should be the last option (only if there is absolutely nothing else that can be done) ‘to save a life of mother or child-to-be’ – not a solution for convenience / or to fix a wrong / or for any other reason ….
dont drink & drive - too many unwanted deaths
don't be unprotected & have sex - too many deaths for unwanted children
both of these death scenarios - are preventable - its about being responsible... stop playing the victim... cause it doesn't have to be that way ...
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Jan
Especially rape victims should not play the victim.
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Randall Jones
Anyone who is pro abortion has allready been born. There are instances when it should be available, but not as a form of birth control and not at my expense. Ilegals should not have any rights in this country.
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Terry
Correct...!
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Athiest Lite
It is not only about the rights of the individual, but also about the rights of the society not to have to deal with an unwanted child. However you parse it, it is cheaper (whether your currency is money or suffering) to provide an abortion when requested than to refuse one.
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Merry Christmas to All!!!
WestCoastCon - so you are telling us that this whole thing is about money - AFTER THE FACT -- what about dealing with this - BEFORE THE FACT - when are you people going to put the responsibility on the OFFENDERS - I didn't make this male & female - decide to do the nitty gritty - THEY DID - all knowing there is a possibility of them 'creating' a life ....
but its like children ... if they do something they were not supposed to, and they know their parents are going to come and save the day --- with minimal punishment .. its human nature - they will most likely continue to to do it again, and maybe even worse ... cause there is minimal to no consequences...
if anything - you should care and feel sorry for the child that was created by 2 able people - and they chose to create - and now will kill just because they blame it on 'no birth control' or 'no free birth control'...
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Anna Brown
YOU ARE SO WRONG! People don't have sex thinking that it will result in pregnancy. We are biologically driven to have sex.
My own story: I never wanted to have children. Even as a child I did not play with dolls or play “Mommy”. As a young married woman, I was on the pill. After a few years my DR wanted me to take a break from the pill even though I had expressed a wish to have a tubal. My DR said I would change my mind but in case I didn't, we could revisit the tubal thing when I was 30. So now I was not on the pill but using an alternative and I am having what turned out to be morning sickness. I truly anguished over this even though to me there was no other answer than to have an abortion. I have never regretted my decision but I never wanted to experience this again, so for my 30th birthday I had the tubal.
Personally, I would like to see the need for abortion diminish. Lots of accurate sex education in schools and widespread access to inexpensive birth control will help.
But when other options fail, please don't ever force any woman to carry a fetus to term.
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Daniel
Only a God creates life to hold the sole of mankind! Male and female or the interments God uses to do so. God is love, so a child created from that love will be loved. All those created from a position of lust is cursed for 10 generations. A child created from love is never aborted and those created from lust are subject to abortion, abandonment, strife, and a host of other dominations. Even if they are so loved by others the life created from a false god of lust is subject to the selfish acts of that creation.
Birth control is not perfect and all intercourse with birth control is a selfish act of lustful personal gratification for those that use it.
But that is what freewill is all about. Do you think if God sent the world a message and said I will smite all those that support abortion and birth control if in the next 90 days just 1 person has an abortion or uses birth control would that be a deterrent. Then you handed a condom to a man or a pill to a woman and it was used, and at that moment All those that supported such action died world wide, would the serving population practice abortion or birth control? I think not.
It takes place because there is no more fear of God so free will shall rain in abated until judgment day.
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Elizabeth Bailey
You are wrong when you say there are no to minimum consequences to abortion. Most women agonize over the decision and pray for guidance. That possibility of a child is never forgotten, no, not for one day. Most abortions are because birth control didn't work, or because of rape, incest, etc. It is not an easy decision to make and the consequences are that you agonize over the decision daily after the event, forever.
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Lea Weisenbach
I've never met a women that was happy to be in line for an abortion. Its a hard choice and still her choice.
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David Schoenling
While I personally do not agree with abortion, it is not up to me to force my beliefs onto the masses. The decisions that we make in our lives are a reflection on who we are as individuals. Those reflections will be our ultimate judgement of how we lived our individual lives. I am not here to pass judgement, nor should you. At the end of the day we will all be judged by the good Lord and we will face the consequences of our choices on that day. I pray that my life choices will reflect well on me and the Lord will judge me kindly.
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Tammy
Every opinion we form within our mind will outpicture itself as division in the world. How difficult it is to not have an opinion...to let things play out knowing that in that, the Holy Spirit that lives with us all is at work for Our Greater Good.
As Ministers we must ask ourselves what is most important...to be self serving or to serve selflessly. When we form an opinion and BeHold it with thoughts of right or wrong, Heaven or hell, we are actually judging one another...All That Is.
The answer?
When confronted with questions as sensitive as this one about abortion, Ministers must still themselves and reflect on all inward emotions, thoughts, beliefs and judgments for the purpose of clearing their own self. This, So To Be That reckoning Force of Unconditional Love. Only Love can heal. Only Love can witness Heaven on Earth.
We've got work to do and it begins within ourself until we See there is no longer need for forgiveness...for in that moment former things have passed away and only Love remains.
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Helen Brown
As a minister, I feel you are right. It is a womans right.I believe all these people who are against this law never stand up and say have the baby and I will take care of it for the rest of its life. If we are christians we should help these dear souls if we are against abortion, however you never see these people stand up to do that, all they want to do is critize. Do not pretend to be a christian, if you have false testomony.
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Jim D.
Pro-choice, but not on the taxpayer's dime.
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Sharon E. Cathcart
Hyde Amendment. Look it up. Thanks.
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Jim D.
Okay, I looked it up. What's your point? Do you think abortion should be paid for by tax payers?
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Kathleen Baird
Had an abortion a long time ago. At that time, my husband had to sign that he agreed with my choice. (Canada, 1976.) I had an IUD Coil for birth control so I wasn't irresponsible. Had lost my 24 year old brother in a car accident and was a basket case. Doctor prescribed medication to get me at least functional and to deal with my depression. Shocked when my doctor said I was pregnant. The medications I had been taking could cause brain damage and cleft palate in an unborn foetus, and I still had the coil implanted in my uterus. Totally unable to cope with 9 months of not knowing how much damage had already been caused by medication and the IUD, and not knowing what I would have, and I don't mean boy or girl. My choice, my body, my survival. There are those who are careless or raped or birth control fails or they just don't want kids. Whether or not I agree with their decision is not the issue. The issue is a woman as a human instead of just a child bearing body. Choice should be available with few restrictions. And reliable birth control should be easily available and NOT a sin. Woman as brood mare, child as unwanted, or as more consumers, or as more followers for religion. Not the best way to improve life on this planet!
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Merry Christmas to All!!!
Your circumstance is sad, and as a father - i would be so heartbroken for all of this - because i could not carry the child, I would feel helpless - cause i couldn't have you both - YOU AND MY CHILD...
But lets be completely honest - most of the abortions are done for convenience - not for the safety of child or mother/mother-to-be. birth control should be available, but not at my expense. Why should I pay for someone else's birth control - they should be able to pay for their own.... if they decide to have sex - its their responsibility to them, and the this planet as you state, to make sure they are taking all precautions...
Please don't make this some sob story about them not being able to get birth control - there are many things people want - and if they want it bad enough - they will find a way - drugs / alcohol / money / job / good health care / food / shelter - its choices and how they go about it...
You are a smart person - don't make availability of birth control or not funded birth control a SIN issue - cause the sin is knowing what is right and wrong / or knowing how to prevent the wrong - and then decide to do the wrong anyways - and expect someone else to make it right ... or its someone else's sin cause someone else didn't pay, because of their lack of desire to make it right first BEFORE having sex....
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Lea Weisenbach
Simple American...your very unkind and unloving..Your misused words are far from a god loving person..
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Daniel
You are correct in stating your life your choice. You still had an open house, although you did not want Gods gift or possible curse in the form of your unwanted pregnancy and lustful life with your spouse. You go and line up excuses in you lame attempt as to why it is okay to do what you did. By doing so you open the dialog for comments be it sweet or with vinegar, it is your choice so do not try to explain as to why you had forsaken Gods Word and Gift of Gods love. Forsaken Gods Will for your lustful ways and subsisting your own freewill in your sinful actions of lust and murder. Gods Law trumps mans law. But your freewill is yours to do with as you please as is the consequences of your exercising of that freewill in a manner contrary to Gods Will.
As for all the lame excuses in the world of its my choice so I did it my way because XYZ is a copout. Put the life in Gods hands. Back in 1976 you had no faith id God or you would not have sent Gods will to the waste pile. It will be nice to se he God Judges all of us come Judgement day.
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Jerry
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." - Luke 6:37
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Merry Christmas to All!!!
its called RESPONSIBILITY PEOPLE - it takes a woman & a man to create life - not a partial life / in 20 wks - poof - you have life - its a blessing to be able to create a life that will eventually be strong enough / big enough / healthy enough to enter into this world. The punishment that God placed on Man because of Adam & Eve - was that Man (Male) will have to work HARD - sweat and tears to provide for his family - for the Woman (Female) they will bear children with pain ... there are other inputs but we are focusing on this one - so to say that a 'woman' has a right to her body and she can do what she wants - don't forget the man that she had sex with - he has as much input as she does -
Also --- you don't become partially pregnant / you are either pregnant or not - and to think that there are people that try to 'justify' killing a life form by giving it a time frame - its the most asinine argument there is -- people are more passionate about their pets than about their own kind (homosapiens) ... its truly a sad state of affairs we are in ... because there is no VALUE put on to such an amazing MIRACLE - to be able to mate with the opposite sex, and 'CREATE' a life - to become YOUR child ...
If you DIDNT want to be pregnant - but you HAVE TO HAVE SEX - Get Birth control / both Male & Female - its BOTH of your responsibilities ... Pregnancy is the 'result' of sex --
ABORTION IS NOT A FORM OF BIRTH CONTROL
i think all of this is starting to show its ugly head because:
NO ONE IS TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS - ITS SOMEONE ELSE'S FAULT - There are instances - Yes - and I am sorry for those - Those situations should be handled with great care & concern / for the mother (if she was the victim) and/or for the child (to be born always) - looking at the full picture - this scenario is the smaller of the numbers that abortions are performed on... the rest, its truly for convenience
Grow Up America - The Entitled Mentality is overrated & Its time for all to be responsible for your actions!! Including having sex ...
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Steve
Let me ask you this if I may. what if your mother or sister was raped and became pregnant shouldn't they have the right to choose if they want to keep that baby
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Lea Weisenbach
Ok simple American..its not that simple. I know a Christian women that had a abortion at 43. She spoke to me because she new I was pro-choice. Her doctor told her because of her age she should get an abortion. Her priest told her she should get the abortion because if something happened to her...Well it would be a shame her husband would have to raise the 6 kids on his own..And I guess her husband had his say so also..Well..3 men had a say so but not her. She felt bad about it. But I told her that's why I'm pro-choice..it was her choice and unfortunately no one listened to her. Sex is part of life and unfortunately we don't teach nor live that it is. Its not a sin..its healthy..and should be taught as so..Abortions are down but won't be if pro-life wins.
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Lea Weisenbach
Our jails are full of unwanted souls...There are many childern out there that don't have homes. I would rather pay for birth control and abortions than welfare..etc..
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Elizabeth Bailey
As a Minister, I believe that God/ Spirit gave us free will. We have "to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, for God is at work in us, both to will and to work for His good purpose.' This is why I am pro-choice. I have seen and felt the damage done to unwanted babies. Our jails are full of adults who were not wanted. If Spirit gave us free will, can we, as Ministers, take that away? Again, pro-choice includes the choice to choose to keep the zygote/fetus/ baby until birth. My daughter learned that I had had an abortion when I was really young. "What if that had been me?" she asked. "What if my prayers were answered and it was?" I replied. "One either believes or one does not."
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Daniel
Rev. Bet Bailey: Agreed it is all about freewill given under threat of eternal damnation and/or punishment for many generations if we exercise that freewill in disobedience to Gods Will . Our prisons are full of lost souls, raised by lost souls incarcerated by lost souls, in a world of freewill reeling lost souls.
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Steve
WOW what a subject I am strongly pro choice however I do not think it should be free if your here illegally (PLEASE let me explain before attacking me LOL) Both my wife and I are hard working tax paying people but if she wanted to have an abortion she would have to pay for it so why should someone who hasn't paid a single cent in taxes be able to have one for free and legal residence have to pay for it Although it may be fair if my wife goes to another country and has an abortion and that countries tax payers pay for it OH wait that's right that would never happen. Should she be able to have an abortion? YES by all means. Should it be free of charge for her? Absolutely not. that's just my opinion I could be wrong
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Mark Millar
"illegals" pay quite a bit in taxes and can never take advantage of them. They can't call the cops if they're being robbed or the fire department if their house is burning, but they pay quite a lot in taxes. Also, no tax payer money CAN go towards abortions; it's been against the law for a long time now. Please let us know when you've done the homework and are prepared to discuss the issues as they actually are.
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Bill Fox
Human life of the individual begins at conception. The fertilized, implanted egg is genetically, a complete human being. To kill the fertilized, implanted egg, is 1st degree murder.
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Elizabeth Bailey
If you don't mind sharing, is this a Catholic opinion? The soul does not enter the fetus until much later.
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Daniel
but is not birth control a form of abortion? As the Bible said, be fruitful and multiply. It also states "I knew you before you was in your mothers womb." Or something along those lines. A sperm swims so it has life, it is the selected life that is full of vitality that gets to penetrate the living egg and become the combined life to grow into a larger life. The living egg that don't get used in that manner is discarded from the woman as designed by God. So as you should see, God begat life, and that life begat life. That is life and that life is not to be discarded except by Gods law, not the laws of mankind. But I guess God gave mankind freewill and it is that freewill all we all so freely try to impose on others. Instead of imposing only Gods will. I guess that is an oxymoron. I guess we should all just get along until judgment day and se how that works.
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Jan
In answer to your question No!
Egg is not fetus is not sperm
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Daniel
Yet the supernatural being knew you before you was in your mothers womb? Egg is life, sperm is life, from those two come one a merging of life into a larger life that grows into a larger life that must move out of the womb to continue life. The fetus is a stage of life. If the fetus was not a viable life then nature its self will discard it just like the discarded eggs in the ministration cycle and the sperm that die never making it to the egg. A natural progression of life.
When mankind gets to decide that a life is not viable at any stage then all life is subject to that discretion. Old folks, not viable, have the death care system take car of it. Become a life not viable to society put them to death. Have a religion or belief that is not viable to society put them to death.
Science and Philosophy is still seeking the answer to creation so how can mankind determine when life starts let alone if it is viable or not regardless of some like yourself claiming 20 week viability of the fetus is the spot to draw a line at. God drew that line when he created mankind.
Are not spermicides used to kill living sperm like pesticides kill pest? Aren't IUD's used to Kill/Stop dead in their tracks the living sperm from fulfilling their its mission? Is a Condom used for STD control and to Stop the living sperm? Are Pills used to Stop the Living sperm from penetrating the living egg? Now is there not so called Day after Pills to stop/kill the combining of the living sperm and living egg once they met? The answer to all these question is Yes. If the sperm and egg was not living there would be no need to stop them.
Physics only works one way, Gods way!
As they say what God creates mankind destroys with its freewill.
Good try Jan........
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Jan
So, what is that "you" that God knows--the egg, the the sperm, the fetus, the body, the soul?
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Daniel
God is the all knowing God, the Creator God, the almighty God. As such that "you" or "I" that God knows is the egg, the sperm, the fetus, the body, the soul, the spirit, the everything that is, ever was or was not, and ever will or will not.
We are but Freewill pons in a winner take all game that last eons before the God's wipe the board. Then after a 1000y of peace and prosperity, The game starts again.
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Tamara
My body, my choice
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Lea Weisenbach
Its only the privilege Christians that are pro-life just for the plain fact to have more Christians. Child birth is one big factor in building up churches. Its nothing more then imprisonment of your body and mind. I'm pro-choice but I really don't like abortions. But the reality is..abortions will always be there legal or not. Abortions have gone down just because of education and women taking charge of their own bodies...That's because they took their mind back and thinking for themselves.
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Daniel
Freewill makes it the women's/females choice, As in the garden womankind had a choice, a freewill, and today she takes from the tree of life of her own freewill masked as a rightful choice cloaked in eternal damnation marching straight into eternal life with Satan not God.
In the beginning GOD created. On the second day God created on the third, forth, fifth, and sixth day God created, On the seventh day he rested. God made man and woman, male and female. God gave the dominion over all creatures of the land in the waters and in the air. God gave mankind freewill at a price. Eve committed original sin with her free will. Mankind has since been punished toil the soil and fight the thorns and weeds and womankind was serve man an to suffer the PAINS of child birth for her original sin and the joy of motherhood so the woman understands the pains of creations and the joys of life as it blooms. God told Man to be fruitful and multiply. God commanded though shalt not Murder! Jesus said give unto Caesar what is Caesars. Jesus also said he who is without sin cast the first stone. Jesus died for our sins before you were born. The lord our God knew you before you was in your mothers womb.
The choice to have an abortion is the woman asserting her freewill to escape the will of God and to smite the person our lord knew before that person was in their mothers womb. The woman pro choice abortionist forsake Gods love for the world by murdering the unborn child whos sins Jesus Christ did for.
For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, that who so ever believeth in him shall not parish but have everlasting life.
Can a freewill abortion pro choice supporter truly believe in God and Jesus when they never want those helpless baby's God entrusted with them to be born? Not allowing those little ones to be born so they to can experience a life here on earth and experience the Love God had for this world and the Love Jesus had for them when he suffered of that cross for all of us including those unborn those abortionist how could they?
The answer is in the bible. Read it. Understand it. Freewill against Gods will results in biblical punishment. If you get pregnant it is Gods will. If you use your free will to end it that is at your peril. if you support the abortion choice it is your free will at your peril. Gods wrath is mighty. Freewill is at your peril.
You may believe in Jesus and that he died for your sins but if you support the abortion pro choice to murder group you do not fear God.
God made a deal with Jesus on conditions to give us everlasting life. God will not go back on his word and Jesus will not go back on his.
The only question is, where will you be spending your eternal life?
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Jan
Not the tree of life--rather the of the knowledge of good and evil.
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Jan
Correction. I was referring to the original sin. Since then, the try of life has been denied us
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Daniel
As you procreate you beget life, that mortal life has been limited to 120y over the eons. The tree of life is offered everlasting thru Jesus Christ our lord. if the perpetrators of original sin would stop aborting the fruits of life those fruits could be harvested in Jesus Christ, or left to spoil with Satan. The male takes his tree and plants it into the great divide to release its living seed into the to void press upon the fertile bonds deposited there in combining the two to make one united that manifest into be-ing the being that is what Jesus died for providing everlasting life.
So abortion is like digging up the tree of life and destroying it after it was planted. And birth control is destroying the tree of life before it is planted.
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Jan
Tree
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Archbishop Yanel Jay Laroche Jr.
To all nations To all tongues To all tribes To all beasts called 666 which is a man's number according to the book of Revelation. To U.S. President Donald Trump To Melania Trump The First Woman To Disney World To The United Nations To Universal Life Church Ministry To God called LORD To Lord Jesus Christ To The Republicans
Reverend Doctor Yanel Jay Laroche Jr.:
I am Reverend Doctor Yanel Jay Laroche Jr. really. And I am holy. My ex-wife Nanette Gonzalez in actuality was a victim of many rapes before she married me religiously you see. According to the Holy Bible,it is wrong for a man to wear a condom at any time when having sex with his wife as I rhyme. Anyway,my ex-wife Nanette Gonzalez kept committing adultery really. And she never got pregnant before I divorced her spiritually.
Me and my angelic wife in my soul called Priscilla the Chastity as foretold both believe it is okay for a woman to have an abortion so bold if she was raped in the world so cold.Priscilla the Chastity:
So many females have no rights Daddy says I,your Spiritual Girl called Priscilla the Chastity so holy. So many of these wicked spirits were telling me and my DADDY Reverend Doctor Yanel Jay Laroche Jr. actually that they are all dogs called prostitutes really according to Revelation 22:15 indefinitely.And wicked spirits all wanted my DADDY to marry another dog called a prostitute in actuality. Is it possible to give the newborn for adoption,and never committ abortion says I,Priscilla the Chastity, on a mission ? Bye!
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shrek
honestly this seems like a troll and if it is I'm down if it isn't i dont know what the actual fuck did i just read this is as weird as fiona the fairy queen on the 10 signs your house is haunted post
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Donna Reeves
Whether to bring a human being onto the earth or not is 100%up to the woman who will be responsible for it with no help at all from the government once it is born.It is nobody’s business but Her’s!
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Daniel
You are 100% correct it is the Woman's Freewill choice, a choice made at her peril. As so with freewill, a man can chose to or not to abuse, rape, kill pillage, and burn at his peril, it is his choice and no one else.
To those that may say the woman's freewill choice of abortion harms no one else and what I described what a man co do with his free will harms others. So it is nobody's business what the abortionist has done and everyone's business regarding the mans misguided freewill.
I am, in the opinion the woman's freewill choice to abort or not to abort in facts affects the world with that choice.
And murder is murder. How that is defined in your society is up to your Government. How it is defined and adjudicated by God will take place come Judgement day!
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Reb TK
After all these years people still can't come to a place where they abandon the magical thinking of the past about the product of a sperm cell and an egg cell. Heaven forbid it be wasted through incest, coercion or masturbation.
Men still struggle to claim ownership of their sperm after is has left their bodies (unless it's in a wet wipe) and some struggle to extend ownership to the one who has received it (and for the sake of this issue, "conception," we will say the woman.) and ownership of the child, an autonomous person in its own right, who should be free of anyone's "ownership. "
Women still struggle to make choices about whether the sperm of the donor is worthy of being carried forward ( one's partner can be sexy but still crazy, sexy but still not cognitively "quite there") or trusting that dude isn't just "laying up in here" for now and likely to move on as the pressure to be a dad (especially financially) mounts...until child support enforcement catches up.
I see it every day.
I feel that biology, in this case reproduction, is sacred. I feel that biology, in this case death, is also sacred.
In this world we as human beings, make many choices about life and death.Where children are wanted, women accept men freely, carry a child freely, and give birth to that child freely. Where children are not wanted, or cannot be accepted, or carried or given birth to freely: I can have no judgment.
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Ron
Bottom line is it's the woman's body, it's the woman's decision, not the man's, not the government's, not the church's.
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Mark Hannon
Someday, no human will die from pollution, genocide, starvation, diseases from poverty and abuse. And someday humans will provide alternatives for children born to parents that don't want them or will harm them.
When someday comes I will probably become a pro-birth supporter.
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Dave
To give in to the selfish desire of sex knowing you could be hosting the life of a presious child and to give into the selfish desire to terminate that life which belongs to God makes you totally selfish! How do you really think God will look upon you? Keep your clothes on or resolve to support your irresponsible acts. Getting some other person to agree with your actions does not exempt you.
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Ada C. Alvarado
Is so selfish to not allow abortion in most of cases because people that is against it simply won't take care of the children, they say that God will help them but the human is the tool of God, so, if you at least took the time to see all the facts that make abortion a blessing instead of a sin you won't be that blind.
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Timothy Carlstead
I am against abortion because it is murder to kill a baby. I don't care if you if you don't want to raise the baby you should either put it up for adoption or give it to your parents, or fiend, or whoever but no abortion that is disgusting. Married couples no abortion because you knew what you were doing when you got in that mess in your room. Same thing for dating couples you no abortion because you knew what you were doing when you got in that mess in your room. I don't care if you are raped and pregnant you are not gonna kill that baby because you are a murder because you are killing an unborn child. I am not saying someone should put a gun your head you should put the baby up for adoption if you don't want it. So if you abort that sweet baby before it comes into the world you are a sick, and disgusting human being because you want that baby dead.
abortion in my opinion is up to a women and no one should be able to make that decision for them, and to not give them a buffer zone to go to these clinics is just wrong. It is the law of the USA to allow this and it is a women's right even if I personally think its wrong to have an abortion.
I agree with Erick Karr 100%
Further to my agreement with Eric, I do not think it is wrong, but I do think that it's a very difficult decision to make. Personally I do not like the idea of having to abort a fetus, but there are times - such as in the health of the mother, or severe abnormalities in the fetus that would make life virtually impossible for it - when I cannot disagree with the decision to abort. It's not a matter of right or wrong. It's a matter of personal values.
A woman's right to choose should not have exceptions. As you say, it is personal.
Early abortion is the woman's choice, no doubt. After 20 weeks and the fetus has developed into a child that is murder. This is as simple as that. If you believe it is anyone's right to take another's life then your take is understandable. Not correct, but it is your obtuse opinion...
The majority of fetal anomalies cannot even be detected prior to 20 weeks' gestation, and no 20-week fetus is viable.
Furthermore, murder is the unlawful taking of a person's life with malice aforethought. Abortion fails this definition on at least two levels right off the bat. I'm sure they can figure out what they are ...
Thank you, Sharon, for your insight. Also, for myself, no man should have an opinion on the subject of abortion.
Men do not have a dog in this hunt. They have no idea what it means to be pregnant.
Anna, I think your attitude is misguided. If a man witnesses a woman he does not know choking a small child, he should not intervene? If your standard on this is that since a man cannot become pregnant that he should have no opinion or that it doesn't count, then, would that mean the following:
People who do not own animals should not have any say in how they are treated? People with no children should not have any say in how they are treated? People who are not drug addicts should not have any say in how drug addicts are treated? People who are not murderers should have no say in how murderers are treated? Black people should not talk badly about white people? People who do not own a handgun should not be allowed to speak about handguns? People who do not pay taxes should not have any say in government? Women should not speak badly about men?
You see where I am going, I guess. If you apply your same logic literally to other situations, it becomes ridiculous. There is another thing wrong here, though-- you said we have no idea what it means to be pregnant. We don't know how it feels to the woman, for sure, but we do know something about what it means. I'm sure gynecologists, and most decent fathers do. However, we WERE babes in the womb at one time. We don't have conscious memories of that, but somewhere in the recesses of everyone's brains, there are some vague, indescribable memories, that we carry with us.
Another point-- roughly half of those babies aborted are male, and women have no idea what it means to be male, and men do, so, I'm just saying, your perspective lacks something when it comes to depth. It is just too narrow. I'm not asking you to change what you believe, but to more thoroughly examine why you believe that way.
I watched my Irish Catholic mother give birth to 10 children. She had the last 5 in 7 years. It wrecked her body. By age 50 she had no teeth. She was tortured by the Catholic priests with visions of going to hell if she practiced birth control. (Probably some of them were molesting children and they had the right to tell HER what to do with HER body?) She was an intelligent woman with no power over her own body. Imprisoned by her own biology. I was the second oldest daughter and was her constant companion and helper. There was no room for a bassinet with the last three and many slept on the floor. We lived in a house that was 900 sq feet. Get the picture?! I believe women absolutely have Sovereignty over their own body. They have the absolute biological right to choose whether they can bear and nourish a child successfully. The Woman's health should come first. I am 68 years old and have watched this debate over the years. Child that are born and the mother is forced to bear them are often neglected and then become a problem for society.
toni ortiz: Are you a problem for society? For all those that are for abortion and make these lame excuses, Take your life and end it before your reproduce. If you have reproduced and are pro-abortion the do a post birth abortion and eliminate your offspring and their offspring from this world. Is it not interesting that abortion is only about selfishness, the wants and what ifs of a godless society.
God has provided freewill to mankind. So it is the freewill to make a choice and that choice is between you and your God. Remember that he "Knew you before you was in your mothers womb" Therefore it is silly mans law that allows the female to chose to take the life God placed in her womb and subvert the freewill of that life he Knew before God placed the life in that womb.
Something to think about. There are a number of ways not to get pregnant in the first place.
if a woman is raped and becomes pregnant its in god's will ? because that sounds more like satan also what choice if you say god places the foetus in the womb
Seems unfair that the father's rights are totally ignored in the process of thinking by most people. Is it legal for a woman to ingnore and disrespect the rights of a biological father who may want the child, even if the woman does not want the child? Where is the fairness in that example? Sounds as if a man's civil rights can be violated in the liberal mainstream just because it is a woman's body? What baloney! That unborn human baby should have Constitutional rights, too; and those rights are being violated when only the mother gets to make what should be a mutual decision. Adoption is always another option. Life should be valued. Odd, how the people who scream for the power to have the abortion are already born. Maybe more people are grateful that their parents chose to keep them?
Since there has never been a man in history that had to make the incredibly personal decision as to whether to carry a child in his body for nine months, men shouldn't even get a vote in the matter. When you can deliver a baby then you can decide what you want to do!
If the father wants the child he can contract with the specialist (the mother) to carry the child. I think the going rate for surrogate mothers is over $100,000 plus all medical benefits, room and board, etc. However this is negotiable, so it might be higher. The fee and whether to take the contract is up to the mother. All the father did was (in most cases) to violate the trust of the mother.
As the father is not assuming any of the physical risks of gestation, this point is moot. It's so easy to be an anti-choice male, handwaving away the very real risk of death that comes with every pregnancy (three woman die of gestational complications every day in the US alone ...and no complication can be predicted until it arises).
All the same, I'm curious about something: yyou wish to assign "constitutional rights" to a zygote/embryo/fetus ... which means you think it is a person. In order to assign rights to a fetus, one must abrogate the rights of the pregnant person. We have only two words in the English language for persons whose rights have been abrogated: prisoner, or slave. Which one would you prefer we apply to pregnant women?
Sharon...very interesting point...Tom
Sharon, your points are valid, well thought out, and correct. And, it's what I was going to say! I agree with you.
Well said.
Thanks again for your comments. Well put!
Sharon E. Cathcart ; if the woman by freewill to on the penis and copulation, then can the woman rightfully take the freewill of the life so created? Should she not offer it to the man to chose if he wants raise the kid or if he agrees to the murder?
Is the man to be the slave as you put? Given the fact that the man will have to pay to support the birth child born of solely the choice of the woman I'd say yes.
I's say before any male has intercourse with any female at anytime he should post the cost of abortion or have an abortion insurance policy to cover the cost of it. Hand proof of coverage to female and he is done it is now truly the choice of the female to abort or not abort! This should be mandatory like car insurance except in NH where car insurance is not mandatory! A financial responsibility thing>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if its all about money and not life.
"odd how the people who scream for the power to have the abortion are already born." Yeah but consider, had they been aborted, would they care? Nope. Would a kid whose parents didn't want her or have the ability to take care of her give a crud if she has to suffer because you're so pro-life? Yup.
I had crappy parents and am still happy to be alive. Had a bad childhood, but I am so thankful to exist. :)
Reproductive rights should not be a government issue.
EXACTLY!
nor should health, education, welfare, and the pursuit of happiness or use of real and personal property.
The government does not force anyone to copulate.
I believe in my right to do as I wish with my body. I am a woman, no man has the right to dictate how I treat myself, certainly no religion. Don't believe in abortion? Don't have one.
Deborah...exactly...and if one understands karma, there is no issue...Tom
If you believe in abortion up to the day of delivery you are a sad individual, and I as most do, consider that murder...
Do you know what they call abortion on the day of delivery? DELIVERY. Abortion merely terminates a pregnancy. No woman in the history of ever has been in active labor while demanding a mulligan on the whole thing.
Sharon...you are right...i do not think late term abortion is a good idea, but each instance should have a review of the reasons, which, i believe, should not be purely medical, but should consider all of the life circumstances of the mother...and i would like to know if each person against abortion is also against war and killing...the attitude toward "killing" should not be selective...Tom
Don't like abortion....? Vote on it, on a state to state bases. Get the government out of our future children's lively hoods. If the people of the state welcome it and don't mind paying for it, let it be. Others words I believe that the father of the child should have just as much of a right to the life he helped create as the mother. What do you think??
I want to know how much of the pregnancy the father will be gestating.
I believe that the father should know about it and I believe that there should be communication between the mother and father to come to an agreement. If that man was good enough to lay down with. Than he is good enough to have a say in the welfare of his child. Now a days there is no reason for unplanned pregnancies. You get educated in school, and can get free condoms and birth control from planned parenthood. If there was a rape or molestation that's a whole different picture. I believe that before a decision is made you should get educated. I have a friend that went in for an abortion when she was 18 and they showed her a video on the procedure and she walked out. Her daughter is 34 years old married with 2 children. Yes it was hard to raise a child at 18 but with family and friends we raised her. Remember it takes a village to raise a child. God Bless and remember the child in that womb is your child that God picked for you.
Beautifully written. I too had a child at 18. It was considerably harder for me at 18 vs now in my 30s...but do I regret keeping my child? Hell no! I am so proud of my 8th grader. I worked harder, and so did he. He is an AllStar baseball player, wide receiver for his school football team, in Jr rotc, and plays the Bass in orchestra. I am so dang proud of that kid! & trust me... he is happy to be alive!!! I am so very happy he is alive as well. :)
If a man can dictate that an abortion can’t happen then the opposite is true. A man can dictate an abortion will happen. Men need to stay out of female issues.
How would a man like it if he was told he could not have his prostrate removed when he has cancer because he would no longer be able to perform for his wife and that his wife had the choice.
Men would not like it, just like women don’t.
What happens to one can also happen to the opposite gender, just wait awhile and Society could turn on you.
Thought shall not kill!
Is killing a cow for meet ok? Is killing a spider or insect ok? Is pulling a weed ok?
So God must have been meaning thou shall not kill humans.
What is humans then? A baby, a child, an adult we can all agree are human, I hope.
A human cell is that human? Some may say yes and others no. Skin cells have t-cells and can be turned into any cell. Is this human. This is a debate that has valid issues on both sides.
Example - your in a fertility clinic making a donation and a fire breaks out. You can save the child playing in front of you or the 5 thousand frozen embryos. What should you do? Save the child v save the 5 thousand embryos that could potentially be 5,000 people.
So let’s say you choose the child because they are a living, breathing human with great potential. Does this mean because of your choice you killed 5,000 people?
So, if a human being is living and breathing and they have the protection of the law and what is moral and ethical and the embryos do not, where is the debate? Embryos act like w parasite of the mother for the first three months and can not live out side of the womb. When this is the case the mother must make a decision while the embryo is still not able to live out side the womb. When the embryo can live out the womb the mother should be responsible for the care of her self and embryo.
Ultimately I do not believe this to be a religious topic or even a topic for men. Reproductive issues are the rights of the mothers and females only.
Just my honest opinion.
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I agree!! I don't believe the baby is alive until it takes it's 1st breath!! That's why some are still Born!!
"I don’t believe the baby is alive until it takes it’s 1st breath!!" Karol, Have you ever been pregnant? Dead babies don't kick.
So if it's kicking, it's alive.
The one big problem with abortion/early termination comes with this fact, that nobody talks about: the rich do as they want, and if they cannot get their choice they leave the state or country and secure an early termination of pregnancy where no one can stop them. The lower income groups however are stuck with the decisions of a generation of (frequently) older conservative white people and thus with no option or choice. " No law should be on the books unless it can be enforced, for the greater good of the people, and to all the people!" And there are choices in this time which were frequently unavailable in the past such as plan B, the morning after pills. If they are available in all states.
It is between the female and their god. Ergo a male should not be forced to pay child support for a child the female chose not to abort. Short of the Woman being raped/forced into a pregnancy (that is a pregnancy without choice) then the male should not have to pay no more then his share of the abortion cost when first notified of the pregnancy. The female/woman's choice can't be both ways. If the male agreed to support and/or raise the kid as any Man of God would, and the female wants to abort the pregnancy that is tuff for the man. If the man wants the Woman to have the abortion and the woman keeps the kid as any good God fearing Woman would, that is tuff for the man and he has no choice. Short of Force, it was male and female that chose the course that caused the condition of pregnancy, in the first place yet only the female has the choice to abort or not, not the male.
Does your god condone abortion? You can look to Gods word for the answer or Ask the almighty God come judgement day.
Does your god condone a female being raped/forced into a pregnancy (that is a pregnancy without choice)? You can look to Gods word for the answer or Ask the almighty God come judgement day. on the other hand one could ask Mary the mother of Jesus some day.
Ponder that.
I agree with Eric! Jesus said we were not to judge another. We never know circumstances. There’s a lot that goes on in this world that I don’t like, but I need to accept all others as myself. I need not judge myself nor my neighbor. The trouble is that we all were taught we were unworthy so we thought we could point fingers at others to erase our unworthiness. Remember the Pharisees? No one, no one has the right to put their values on another. No wonder there is so much strife in the world. It is the outward projection of our inward thoughts & our egos.
Let us unite in Love and prayer that we all can awaken to the true Spirit that is ours to claim. God gives unconditional Love. Let us do the same .
I agree with eric karr. It is a woman's choice.