A Catholic Priest performing exorcism
"Let's hope this guy is officially sanctioned by the Catholic Church, or else this won't work." - Pope Francis, probably

If you’re not a Catholic priest specially trained in the rite of exorcism (or a horror movie fan), it’s unlikely that you’re thinking about exorcism a whole heck of a lot. But in the world of demon expulsion, there’s a battle brewing between Vatican-approved professional exorcists and amateurs who claim to be just as effective as their trained counterparts.

Things have gotten so out of hand that the Catholic Church just put out official guidelines on who can and cannot expel demons from the human body. 

Sorry, hobbyists. Your amateur exorcisms are officially no good according to the Catholic Church.

The Devil’s in the Details

Exorcism itself has been practiced by Catholic priests for hundreds of years, and the first official guidelines on exorcism techniques were issued by the church in 1614.

Exorcists look for the telltale signs of demon possession, including speaking in tongues, contorted body positions, fear or hatred of religious objects, and levitation.

The Catholic Church has always been cautious about exorcisms, and historically very few were approved.

In the Catholic tradition, exorcism cases must be investigated thoroughly before the exorcism is approved, and only a handful of submitted cases are actually approved by the Vatican. By the mid-20th century, it was an almost completely forgotten and obscure ritual.

Regan in the movie The Exorcist
Many were introduced to exorcism by the classic 1973 film.

But exorcism was re-popularized in the 20th century by the seminal 1971 novel The Exorcist, and its Academy Award-winning 1973 film adaptation of the same name.

In recent years, the Catholic Church has tread even lighter than before – despite exorcism requests skyrocketing.

Advances in science and psychology have shown that most submitted exorcism requests aren’t really instances of demonic possession, they’re instead profound mental health issues or cases of chemical dependency.

As Vatican-approved exorcisms remain low, it appears amateurs are fulfilling that extra demand. Could the rise of exorcisms really be chalked up to market dynamics? Maybe so. 

Exorcism License and Registration, Please

The International Association of Exorcists, a Vatican-approved group founded in 1990 by Father Gabriele Amorth, is seeking to tamp down on the rogue exorcists. Their new guidelines, reviewed by the Vatican, were just published. They say officially that priests performing exorcisms must receive approval from the church, and warn that unauthorized exorcists may actually leave the door open to further demonic possession

In their guidelines banning rogue exorcisms, the group specifically cites a rogue exorcist who sexually abused women and children after convincing them that they were demonically possessed, then carried out “exorcisms” that involved touching the victims’ genitals. They've also banned accepting monetary compensation for performing an exorcism, in an effort to prevent the exploitation of desperate individuals.

The new guidelines seem well-intentioned, especially since many people asking for help exorcising demons are really in need of mental health care.

Still, the Catholic Church has its own, erm, demons, and approval of the clergy is at a serious low point. It’s easy to see how, in desperation, some might turn to amateurs – either to cut through red tape or simply to avoid the Catholic Church.

What is your reaction? Is an amateur exorcism just as good as a professional one? Or is the whole idea of "expelling demons" just a bit outdated? 

115 comments

  1. Brother William's Avatar Brother William

    So....what happens iff you don't pay your exorcist? Do you get "reposessed"???

    1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      That really a good one.

    2. Michael Spinelli's Avatar Michael Spinelli

      I like that....

    3. Jonah Elias Brummett's Avatar Jonah Elias Brummett

      That was a fantastic Leslie Nielsen movie

  1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

    As Wiccan, I do believe in the existence in good and bad spirits, and have had experiences with such discarnate entities. A day seldom passes when I don't communicate with departed friends and loved ones, and my experiences have sometimes gone far beyond that. I cannot speak for all Wiccans, but in my training I learned that we of the Wicca do not believe in Satan, He'll, or demons. Such beliefs are only part of Christian mythology. In my Wiccan training I did learn techniques for exorcising evil entities, as well as spirits who attach themselves to o others, put have never participated in such activities. However, I have known of many who have, none of which were Catholic priests, but most of whom which were well trained members of the spiritism movement, and also some Wiccans. I didn't know the Catholics claimed to be the final authority on such undertakings, but nothing those fools do ever surprises me. Roman Catholicism has done the world far more harm than good, and anything declared by their worthless pope should be ignored. And you can tell that jack-ass I said so.

    1. Megan “Nicole” Schultz Abeln's Avatar Megan “Nicole” Schultz Abeln

      Love this comment! Completely agree.

  1. the People's Project 5's Avatar the People's Project 5

    I agree with the Catholics. Investigate mental illness possibility first!

    1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      I don't think you have to worry about person that having the demons, devil, Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub, Mephistopheles driven out, but what you should be concerned about is the person or persons that is performing the exorcism and for what reason.

      "Adjure te, spiritus nequissime, per Deum omnipotentem."

      "I adjure thee, most evil spirit, by Almighty God."

      The word exorcism has its root in the Greek word exousia, meaning oath; when translated to English, it means adjure. Thus, to exorcise doesn't really mean "cast out" as much as it means "putting the Devil on oath or invoking a higher authority to compel the Devil to act in a way contrary to its wishes ." According to Toner, "Exorcism is the act of driving out, or warding off, demons, or evil spirits, from persons, places, or things, which are believed to be, possessed or infested by them, or are liable to become victims or instruments of their malice; the means employed for this purpose, especially the solemn and authoritative adjuration of the demon, in the name of God, or any of the higher power in which he is subject." Exorcisms were seen as opportunities to obtain access to hidden information, "a moment when the Devil could be interrogated under compulsion and forced to divulge his supposedly enormous range of knowledge

      What is exorcism in today's term?

      Exorcism is a religious or spiritual ritual carried out to supposedly cure people of demonic possession. It remains controversial, in part due to its depiction in popular culture and horror films.

      In an article about exorcism for The Conversation academic website, Helen Hall, a lecturer at Nottingham Law School, says the practice "signifies freeing a place, person or even object from some form of negative spiritual influence".

      Beliefs and rituals of a similar description "are found in almost all cultures and faith traditions", writes Ms Hall, who is also an Anglican priest.

      In 2018, about 250 priests from 50 countries attended the Vatican's annual exorcism course amid increasing demand for exorcisms among some of the world's Catholic communities.

      In the Catholic Church, exorcisms are performed by trained priests who recite prayers and excerpts from the Bible intended to drive out demonic entities.

      Catholic Online says a possessed person may be bound as the priest traces the sign of the cross over them and sprinkles them with holy water.

      Panama: Seven people found dead after suspected exorcism.

      The bodies of seven people have been found in a mass grave in an indigenous area of Panama where members of a religious sect were believed to be performing exorcisms, officials say.

      The victims included a pregnant woman, 32, and five of her children, aged one to 11. The sixth was a neighbour, 17.

      Fifteen other people were freed.

      Ten people have been arrested on suspicion of murder. The suspects and all victims were thought to belong to the Ngäbe-Buglé indigenous community.

      The grave was discovered after three villagers escaped and made their way to a local hospital last weekend, prosecutor Rafael Baloyes said. They then alerted authorities about several families being held by an indigenous-run sect.

      On Wednesday, police raided the community, located in a jungle region in north-west Panama some 250km (155 miles) from the capital Panama City.

      "They were performing a ritual inside the structure. In that ritual, there were people being held against their will, being mistreated," said Mr Baloyes. "All of these rites were aimed at killing them if they didn't repent their sins".

      Inside the makeshift church, officers found a naked woman, machetes, knives and a ritually sacrificed goat, Mr Baloyes said. The site was controlled by a religious sect called the New Light of God, believed to have been operating in the region for about three months.

      According to Mr Baloyes, the kidnapping and torture started last Saturday after one of the members claimed to have received "a message from God". The victims were then kidnapped from their homes, beaten and killed.

      The suspects, who include a minor, are expected to appear in court on Friday or Saturday. One of them is the father of the pregnant woman found in the grave, located some 2 km from the makeshift church.

      Those rescued had bodily injuries and reportedly included at least two pregnant women and some children.

    2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      I agree that Catholics are mentally ill, and should be tested, as well as laughed at, whole heatedly.

  1. Delphine S. Pillar's Avatar Delphine S. Pillar

    The Catholic church destroyed real Christianity, Emperor Constantine practiced the cult of Mithra underneath the church, he was like Trump using the name of Christ and his church for his own ends. I don't think you need a college degree in demons if you have faith and wield authority in the name of Yeshua Hamashiach , Jesus Christ. I think that a person should know what they are really dealing with and without total trust and faith in God and his deliverer you should avoid doing this. They might just jump to you for a better ride. lol Most of the time it is mental health issues and not demons. Who are demons anyway, much of the time creations of our own making. If anyone practices violence in the name of Jesus Christ they are not of God for sure. So many twisted cults using Jesus name to practice terrible things or to cash in. But there are dark souls who would do anything to escape the hell they put themselves in, to experience life in a healthy body and they would corrupt it. Call on the white light and Jesus in faith to protect you.

    1. Michael Spinelli's Avatar Michael Spinelli

      Please don't mention our President in your writings. He has nothing to do with this topic. Anyone who needs to berate his countries leader to make a point may need to seek an exorcism themselves. As that is evil.

      1. Eric Salazar's Avatar Eric Salazar

        The Anti-Christ is now running the country, or do you not read the Bible?

        1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

          This isn't a Christian sect, and I think the Bible totally sucks!!!

        2. Michael Spinelli's Avatar Michael Spinelli

          Yes and the mark is on every thing you order. Think about it

        3. Michael Spinelli's Avatar Michael Spinelli

          Respect is a virtue of a Pastor. Where is yours.

          1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

            Well you're not showing any respect to the others people on the blog now are you. In order to get respect you must also show respect. Neither you nor Trump has been showing any respect toward others Not only is respect virtue of a pastor, but also it a virtue of human. And another thing everyone has a right to their own opinion whether you agree with that opinion or not, whether you like what they say or not. As far as Trump goes. He since is now president he is now a public figure and not a private citizen as such he is now open to public criticism. If he is not able to handle the criticism that come with the office of the President of The United State then. Then he is unfit for the responsibility of holding the highest office in the land.

            1. Michael Spinelli's Avatar Michael Spinelli

              Well maybe I am wrong but I was under the impression that love was one of the ideals of our church. Thats all I have to say on that. The only problem I have a question on exorcism ended up throwing President Trump under the train. Just not right. As far as Obama's birth certificate and school records I think that would be a prerequisite to hold an office in the United States. Maybe I am wrong. But don't think so. But yet President Trumps income tax returns seems to be important. It is supposed to be whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Think about this brother's and sister's.

              1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

                Your statement : Well maybe I am wrong but I was under the impression that love was one of the ideals of our church. Well you haven't been showing any "love" or respect to others. As I said before if you want "Love" and respect then you have to show love and respect to others as well.

                All the other candidates show their tax returns whether they are running for the office of the Presidency or any other pubic office. Because it show they have nothing to hide, it shows transparency and honesty.

                Your Statement: "It is supposed to be whats good for the goose is good for the gander." all other President since Nixon has shown their tax returns in including Obama except Trump And No other president has shown their birth certificate and school records and NO it not a prerequisite to hold an office in the United States to show their birth certificate and school records.

                Trump absolutely refuses to show his tax returns, it makes him looks like he is dishonest as if he hiding something that he don't want people to know . So far everything Trump has done has been dishonest, He lies when there no real reason to lie. You know damn well the only reason Trump kept on harassing Obama about his birth certificate and school records was to embarrass him and make him look bad.

                This is your statement: "Anyone who needs to berate his countries leader to make a point may need to seek an exorcism themselves"

                That is not "question on exorcism" You were saying that any one who dare berate the president should have an "exorcism themselves" simply because YOU didn't like what they said. Well guess what this is a Democracy not a Dictatorship that I know Trump would love for it to be, People have the right to their opinions and to criticize the president, whether you like it or not

      2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        I don't have any problem with being evil enough to put down Trumpelstiltskin, the worst president this nation has ever had. Like everything else it's best tostay balanced between good and evil. And, thank God and Goddess I haven't come across any goodie-two-shoes on this blog, yet. Balance is the key. Trump doesn't seem to know anything about that, but seems to by far mostly manifest evil, which could be a sign of possession. Didn't you see that time when his head spin all the way around while he threw up green peas soup. It happened very quickly, so a lot of people probably missed it, or refused to believe what they were seeing, and dismissed it from their memories. Trumpelstiltskin not only needs a good exorcist, but they ought to send in the Calisare, and first time him down. That was another one of my favorite episodes of the X-FILES.

      3. Delphine S. Pillar's Avatar Delphine S. Pillar

        Your response is a bit over the top, are you sure you are not possessed Michael ? A bit strange defending the Godless. I can help you, let me know. In the meantime, God bless!

        1. Michael Spinelli's Avatar Michael Spinelli

          U a sickness with no known cure.

          1. Michael Spinelli's Avatar Michael Spinelli

            I am sorry but I see I cannot help you. God Bless

          2. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

            You say where the love where the respect, yet you say ("U a sickness with no known cure.") now is that how you show love and respect toward others.

    2. John R's Avatar John R

      I agree organized Christianity doesn't represent Christ or His teachings ... but you can just read the Gospels and see that. Mankind wishes to worship mammon, and wants a sheepskin to wrap itself in.

      Some folks apparently want to worship a human construct of power as they are sitting on a deity's throne; but, I wonder how respectful they are of leaders they consider the "other side."

  1. Dr. Bob Thomas's Avatar Dr. Bob Thomas

    All through the Gospels we see Christ and His apostles casting out demons. In no instance was a license or registration required. In fact, for a great many instances The Church did not yet exist! Demons however knew who they were facing and dealt with frauds whenever they attempted to cast them out. I say, let the demons determine who is a fraud or not. They are the real experts here!

    Acts 19:13-20 NASB [13] But also some of the Jewish exorcists, who went from place to place, attempted to name over those who had the evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, "I adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches." [14] Seven sons of one Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. [15] And the evil spirit answered and said to them, "I recognize Jesus, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" [16] And the man, in whom was the evil spirit, leaped on them and subdued all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. [17] This became known to all, both Jews and Greeks, who lived in Ephesus; and fear fell upon them all and the name of the Lord Jesus was being magnified. [18] Many also of those who had believed kept coming, confessing and disclosing their practices. [19] And many of those who practiced magic brought their books together and began burning them in the sight of everyone; and they counted up the price of them and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. [20] So the word of the Lord was growing mightily and prevailing.

  1. William Mitchell's Avatar William Mitchell

    I am voting for Trump.

    1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      You might as well have someone hit you over the head with a 2x4 it would make about as much sense voting for Trump would, and I doubt it cause you any brain damage either.

  1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

    Demons are not real, unless of course anyone has a way of “demon”strating they are. Like most other things about religion, it’s just a very outdated myth, unless of course anyone can evidentially prove they are real, and I don’t mean by pointing out to me people like Pelosi, or Schumer. 🤪

    🦁❤️

    1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      Nice play on words Lionheart I love it.

    2. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      Yeah I know that, no self-respecting Demon/Evil Spirit would ever stoop so low as a demonic possession of Trump.

      1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

        🤣 Too cute!

        Out of 30 candidates Biden ended up cream of the crop, which doesn't say much for the other 29. Do you think that Biden is really the sharpest knife in the Democrat drawer to unseat Trump? Just asking for a find. 🤪

        🦁♥️

        1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

          It sounds like Biden was the best salesman in the room. I bet he could sell coastal resort property in Montana!

      2. Michael Spinelli's Avatar Michael Spinelli

        Making low life remarks about your countries sitting President, goes against what this Church is about. You many need to be dropped from its rolls. As I can see you are not propagating the values of this Church. I recommend immediate removal of your standing.

        1. Eric Salazar's Avatar Eric Salazar

          Too late I paid my money just like everybody else and then found I didn't need anything to be a Minister in Texas

        2. Sean Christopher McCracken's Avatar Sean Christopher McCracken

          I am sure you were just as offended when Trump spent years. demanding the birth certificate of the country’s sitting president right?

          1. Michael Spinelli's Avatar Michael Spinelli

            No I think that was more important than Trumps tax return.

        3. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

          Really and since when did the Universal Life Church Monastery become the church of Trump and who in the hell make you it bishop.

          So stop acting like a religious tyrant and start respecting other peoples rights!

          The Universal Life Church’s Stance The Universal Life Church has long championed the cause of religious freedom, but it has also stalwartly admonished against the folly of religious tyranny. True religious freedom means the right to exercise your religion in peace and harmony while also respecting the freedoms of others. It does not mean steamrolling over their freedoms; it does not mean controlling every aspect of their lives; and it is not a free pass to do whatever you want on the grounds of personal faith. Religious freedom ends when it seeks dominion over the basic freedoms of others.

        4. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

          This is not a church, but a ministry.

          1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

            Yes you're right Carl Bernard Elfstrom Every individual is free to practice their religion in the manner of their choosing.

    3. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      You would think that this being the 21st century, that we would have progressed and moved beyond superstition and primitive thinking. And in some area maybe we have, but in other area it seem like we are sliding backward. Whether that a good thing or not we just have to wait and see.

  1. Ty Ford's Avatar Ty Ford

    A lot depends on the exorcist and on the person requiring the exorcism. I did an exorcism some years back. I had hypnotized a friend and the Irishman that came through him did not want to leave. Here's how that went. https://soundcloud.com/tyford/ty-ford-stoop-exorcism

    I had never done an exorcism before. I've not needed to do one since. In retrospect, I was given everything I needed in the moment and it worked. It made me respect the "other world."

  1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

    If there is good then there is evil, all they are doing is arguing over how to fight it

    1. Rev. Jonathan Peebles's Avatar Rev. Jonathan Peebles

      There are no absolutes I am sorry but even the gods do things I do not support esp the Catholic one. I do not believe the so named "Devil" is completely evil just because the man written bible claims so as men are not perfect and often make mistakes...

      1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        Anything totally evil is totally destructive,and would totally destroy itself, therefore it could not exist.

      2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

        again, you have to have both sides of the coin, SO believe what you want but the fact remains if there is good then there naturally has to be evil of the same stripe.

        1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

          Yes there good characteristics and evil characteristics in everyone, in some one characteristics is more dominant than the other.

  1. Len DeSecottier's Avatar Len DeSecottier

    What Dr Thomas is saying in his comments is correct to a point (in my opinion). The demons, if they are indeed demons, know who is a fraud or not. Having a license does not mean a person is not a fraud as we have seen repeatedly throughout history. However, having said this, it is the damage caused by those who are untrained or not validated by the Church that is the problem. The untrained can open up the door to further possession and release of demons if it is indeed a demon or can cause further psychological damage to the person if it is not. Imagine going through life believing that you were possessed at one point when indeed you need help for a mental health issue. You will never speak out again and therefore never receive the help needed. Christ had the power of God behind Him and the Apostles had the training of Christ behind them. Leave it to the experts to determine if it is mental health or demon possession. Regardless of whichever it is, it becomes the work of the professional to make that decision.

  1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

    Anna Elisabeth "Anneliese" Michel (21 September 1952 – 1 July 1976) was a German woman who underwent Catholic exorcism rites

    Born as Anna Elisabeth Michel on 21 September 1952 in Leiblfing, Bavaria, West Germany, to a Roman Catholic family, Michel was brought up along with three sisters by her parents, Josef and Anna. She was religious and went to Mass twice a week. When she was sixteen, she suffered a severe convulsion and was diagnosed with temporal lobe epilepsy. In 1973, Michel graduated and joined the University of Würzburg. Her classmates later described her as "withdrawn and very religious".

    Psychiatric treatment

    In June 1970, Michel suffered a third seizure at the psychiatric hospital where she had been staying. She was prescribed anti-convulsion drugs for the first time, including Dilantin, which did not alleviate the problem. She began describing seeing "devil faces" at various times of the day. That same month, she was prescribed another drug, Aolept, which is similar to chlorpromazine and is used in the treatment of various psychoses including schizophrenia, disturbed behavior and delusions. By 1973, she suffered from depression and began hallucinating while praying, and complained about hearing voices telling her that she was "damned" and would "rot in hell". Michel's treatment in a psychiatric hospital did not improve her health and her depression worsened. Long-term treatment did not help either, and she grew increasingly frustrated with the medical intervention, taking pharmacological drugs for five years. Michel became intolerant of Christian sacred places and objects, such as the crucifix.

    Michel went to San Damiano with a family friend who regularly organized Christian pilgrimages. Her escort concluded that she was suffering from demonic possession because she was unable to walk past a crucifix and refused to drink the water of a Christian holy spring:

    Anneliese told me—and Frau Hein confirmed this—that she was unable to enter the shrine. She approached it with the greatest hesitation, then said that the soil burned like fire and she simply could not stand it. She then walked around the shrine in a wide arc and tried to approach it from the back. She looked at the people who were kneeling in the area surrounding the little garden, and it seemed to her that while praying they were gnashing their teeth. She got as far as the edge of the little garden, then she had to turn back. Coming from the front again, she had to avert her glance from the picture of Christ (in the chapel of the house). She made it several times to the garden, but could not get past it. She also noted that she could no longer look at medals or pictures of saints; they sparkled so immensely that she could not stand it. —Father Alt

    Michel and her family, as well as her community, became convinced and consulted several priests, asking for an exorcism. The priests declined, recommended the continuation of medical treatment, and informed the family that exorcisms required the bishop's permission. In the Catholic Church, official approval for an exorcism is given when the person strictly meets the set criteria, then they are considered to be suffering from possession (infestatio) and under demonic control. Intense dislike for religious objects and supernatural powers are some of the first indications. Michel worsened physically and displayed aggression, self-injury, drank her own urine and ate insects. In November 1973, Michel started her treatment with Tegretol, an anti-seizure drug and mood stabilizer. She was prescribed anti-psychotic drugs during the course of the religious rites and took them frequently until some time before her death. Despite taking these neuroleptic medications, Michel's symptoms worsened and she began to manifest "growling, seeing demons, throwing things."

  1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

    Anna Elisabeth "Anneliese" Michel (21 September 1952 – 1 July 1976) was a German woman who underwent Catholic exorcism rites

    Continue because of a limit of 5000 words

    Exorcism

    Bishop Josef Stangl (May 1959) who approved the exorcism ordering total secrecy

    The priest Ernst Alt, whom they met, on seeing her declared that "she didn't look like an epileptic" and that he did not see her having seizures. Alt believed she was suffering from demonic possession and urged the local bishop to allow an exorcism. In a letter to Alt in 1975, Michel wrote, "I am nothing; everything about me is vanity. What should I do? I have to improve. You pray for me" and also once told him, "I want to suffer for other people...but this is so cruel". In September of the same year, Bishop Josef Stangl granted the priest Arnold Renz permission to exorcise according to the Rituale Romanum of 1614, but ordered total secrecy. Renz performed the first session on 24 September. Michel began talking increasingly about "dying to atone for the wayward youth of the day and the apostate priests of the modern church", and she refused to eat towards the end. At this point, her parents stopped consulting doctors on her request and relied solely on the exorcism rites. 67 exorcism sessions; one or two each week, lasting up to four hours, were performed over about ten months in 1975–1976.

    Death

    On 1 July 1976, Michel died in her home. The autopsy report stated the cause was malnutrition and dehydration due to being in a semi-starvation state for almost a year while the rites of exorcism were performed. She weighed 30 kilograms (68 pounds), suffering broken knees due to continuous genuflections. She was unable to move without assistance, and was reported to have contracted pneumonia.

    Prosecution

    After an investigation, the state prosecutor maintained that Michel's death could have been prevented even one week before she died.

    In 1976, the state charged Michel's parents and priests Ernst Alt and Arnold Renz with negligent homicide.] During the case Michel's body was exhumed and tapes were played to the court of the exorcisms over the eleven months which led to her death. The parents were defended by Erich Schmidt-Leichner; their lawyers were sponsored by the Church. The state recommended that no involved parties be jailed; instead, the recommended sentence for the priests was a fine, while the prosecution concluded that the parents should be exempt from punishment as they had "suffered enough", which is a criterion in German penal law, cf. § 60 StGB.

    Trial The trial started on 30 March 1978 in the district court and drew intense interest. Before the court, doctors testified that Michel was not possessed, stating that this was a psychological effect because of her strict religious upbringing and her epilepsy, but the doctor Richard Roth, who was asked for medical help by Alt, allegedly told her during the exorcism, that "there is no injection against the devil, Anneliese". Schmidt-Leichner said that the exorcism was legal and that the German constitution protected citizens in the unrestricted exercise of their religious beliefs. The defense played tapes recorded at the exorcism sessions, sometimes featuring what was claimed to be "demons arguing", to assert their claim that Michel was possessed. Both priests said the demons identified themselves as Lucifer, Cain, Judas Iscariot, Belial, Legion, and Nero among others; they further said that she was finally freed because of the exorcism just before her death.

    The bishop said that he was not aware of her alarming health condition when he approved of the exorcism and did not testify. The accused were found guilty of manslaughter resulting from negligence and were sentenced to six months in jail (which was later suspended) and three years of probation. It was a far lighter sentence than anticipated, but it was more than requested by the prosecution, who had asked that the priests only be fined and that the parents be found guilty but not punished. The Church approving such an old fashioned exorcism rite drew public and media attention. According to John M. Duffey, the case was a mis-identification of mental illness.

  1. tuppennyblue's Avatar tuppennyblue

    Read Aldous Huxley's "The Devils of Loudon". A serious and thorough account of the phenomenon of mass hysteria. (Ken Russell's film is based on the book but has little in common. You might like it if witchcraft porn is your thing.)

    1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      You call yourself two penny blue?

      1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        Having only two pennies would give anyone the blues.

    2. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      The Werewolf Of London was a good movie, too.

      1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

        Yeah it was I remember watch that.

  1. Shawn Dwayne Blankenship's Avatar Shawn Dwayne Blankenship

    No, Catholic priests are not the only ones who can do exorcisms. The authority to cast out demons and evil spirits rests not in a church structure but in the authority given to Christians who are redeemed by the blood of Christ. Christians have the authority to be called the children of God (John 1:12).

    Requirements for Services of Exorsisms include, but are not limited to you answering this questionnaire. Please explain IN full: your Psychological history, including mom/ dad/ brother/ sister/ cousin/ grandparents/ aunt/ uncle/ cat/ dog/ fish. .... Your Addiction issues in full. Have you had an experience or history of engaging in the occult: Witchcraft, Black Magic, Magicians, fortune tellers, crystals, wizards, or bewitched or Demonic bored games? Have you ever tried to reach contact/ or have you ever openly had contact with Demons/spirits, or Satan himself? Do you truly want to be FREE of EVIL influences, that you believe are presently effecting you? WILL YOU DO, WHAT MUST BE DONE!? (c) 2014-2020 by Canon Catholic Law, by order of the International Association of Exorcists!

    How does ONE Church have rites over all of God's people?

    1. Karu's Avatar Karu

      And how does one religion (christianity) claim to have exclusive access to god?

      I do agree with the "common sense" theme of the church's document,

      I disagree with the concept that somehow christianity is superior to any other religion, and the extended tenet that that makes christians superior to all others.

  1. Maria Nunez's Avatar Maria Nunez

    What a wonderful topic this is today. I would like to add my real life encounter with something like a demon with my mother levitated for 4 days above her bed. The priests came from a nearby church and said it could not be and dismissed it as a hoax. (Mind you, she was at least 5 feet above her bed, levitating for 4 days; sleeping mostly but when I would sneak into her bedroom and lay down under her on her bed, to see her and talk to her, she was totally normal. No demon there, ever. Nor did I ever feel threatened. It was not until my father brought in his friends that were from Haiti and they performed a ceremony. Quiet, prayers, etc., she walked out of there tired, but in good spirits. (No pun intended). It took a long time but they did it. Never did that happen again.

    From the mediumship messages I have received, and it has been a consensus, this type of lesser energy is not interested in us. We are now, plain boring. We are too awakened and they are unable to use lies, deceit and/or fear to bring us down to that level of vibration. We are just plain boring. I have always agreed that yes, rule out mental health first, then if all is well, go spiritual. Just like we all have evolved, so has the spiritual realm.

    Fear based religion brought in a lot of opportunities to open those doors people talk about. Oppression is one of the lowest vibrations one could encounter. When there is a world in this state, or a large group, like a country, city, kingdom, then there is a reason for these lesser energies or entities to blend in with that vibration. Right now, anyone can do an exorcism as there is no real meat in the game. Transformations do have their ups and downs. We're being fed the downs rather than the ups in hopes that it could happen again. It won't. Humanity is tired of the bull it was fed. We are ready for better and higher vibrations. Love and light to all.

    1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

      I sure wish I could levitate. Wouldn't that be cool? Do you think if I contacted the so-called demons who possessed your mother they would make me do it, too. My genie's flying carpet is in the shop. I'd even worship them first, like a woman in my bedroom!

  1. Kenneth E. Salvage Sr's Avatar Kenneth E. Salvage Sr

    Exorcism by amateurs should not be allowed. Even people with good spiritual intentions can cause terrible outcomes. Evil in itself can come in many different forms. It takes a well trained person to determine if evil is actually causing the problem. Walking in to a situation with a bible and a cross, holy oil, holy water and good feelings is not enough! Actually if a person wanted to really help remove evil, they should be allowed to be a per-investigator for a trained Exorcist! True exorcism events are rare and real fully trained priest for them are almost as rare! Common sense, not good intentions should prevail here! Any God you might pray too (besides the evil one himself) would agree that using common sense is the right way approach this issue.

  1. Jennifer Lee Roberts's Avatar Jennifer Lee Roberts

    I have to say, I can see the point on each side here. What people need to remember and understand is that Catholics are not the only religion in the world. Catholics do not hold power over other religions, and many religions have versions of exorcism to rid people of evil. I do believe that if someone from any religion has the intention of truly helping an individual or family in this type of need, they should not be receiving monetary compensation, they should not be performing these rites alone, and they should be accompanied with a psychologist/psychiatrist to verify this is not a medical condition. I also agree that in the world we are living in today, both mental illness, and the presence of evil are flourishing. Training in all religions for expelling evil should be encouraged during this time accompanied with psychiatric training. I am ordained and also in college to obtain my psychiatric license. Even then I would be leary trying to help someone that could utlimately hurt them without the proper training.

  1. Michael Spinelli's Avatar Michael Spinelli

    I look thru these replies and in most other posted items for debate and see how a few here have to bring our President into the post to attack our sitting President. This is not supposed to be a political driven church. It is supposed to be based on Love. When you can deface the office of the President doesn't say much about your intentions in our church and you should be removed. Why this church moderator even allows this to continue is beyond me. But this is not abiding by our charter. Please refrain from turning our church into a political site. Or leave this church. Thank you.

    1. Karu's Avatar Karu

      Your post made me stop and think. And disagree.

      There is a significant difference between "defac[ing] the office of the President" and posting about an individual who happens to to be a President. One is saying "All presidents are bad!" versus saying "Mr. ? lies."

      I see the argument as being the difference between "All priests abuse children." and "That person who is a priest abuses children." But is you extend your observation to "No one can speak against anyone in the office of priest!" it allows abuse of a most serious nature.

      I was raised with one of Confucius ideas that I paraphrase "If a man stands idly by and watches a group of men do evil on another, the first man is just as guilty as the rest of the group." For me it sets a clear rule to respond when I observe instances of abuse and wrongdoing.

      In fact, as ministers and leaders of our church and the communities we serve, is it not our duty to speak up? This church fights for freedom of religion in all its forms. That also includes freedom of speech. So do I.

      1. Carla Ruth Robinson's Avatar Carla Ruth Robinson

        Beautifully said!

        1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

          I hope y'all aren't taking all this crap too seriously. It's just something for us to talk about. That's how the good ol' boys of the ULC gets their jollies. Laughter is good for the soul, and will help us live longer. I bet they're getting quite a kick out of all this, especially from those of you who get emotional about it.

      2. Delphine S. Pillar's Avatar Delphine S. Pillar

        Absolutely, freedom of speech and trying to silence people from expressing their beliefs or thoughts to suit your own opinions is wrong. As for religion and politics look at Martin Luther King, Jr. or the numerous religious people involved in politics . Also look at the numerous people using Jesus like an ATM in and out of politics. Yes, it was beautifully said. It makes me sad today to see the evil being done in many churches and in the name of God. Jesus did not preach the " Prosperity gospel" , have a mansion, secret girlfriends, airplanes and limo's. Even if he was here in body today and preaching I am sure he wouldn't accumulate material goods. He also didn't try to silence people either. Evil should be challenged wherever it is, no one is exempt from the Laws of Man or God in my way of thinking. Starting to Censor people and exclude them is wrong, the beginning of destruction. Just like our journalists, reporters, and others are being intimidated and excluded. Censorship , repression, trying to control what others say or express is not of God.

      3. Michael Spinelli's Avatar Michael Spinelli

        Half of this is true. Half not so much, could probably file it with fairy tale Alibaba and the 40 theives.

        1. Karu's Avatar Karu

          It would be interesting to learn which "half" you are speaking of. Otherwise thank you for the back-handed compliment.

    2. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      I not sure what do you mean by "our charter"and"our church" who are these "our" that you are talking about?

      "Please refrain from turning our church into a political site. Or leave this church."

      Who are you to decide as to who can stay and who is to leave this church.

      The ULC, recognizing the importance of maintaining open hearts and minds, embraces any individual, no matter his or her spiritual background, who wishes to become a member of this family of faith.

      The ULC has also become renowned for its role as a champion of religious freedom, social justice, and spiritual expression.

      The Universal Life Church was founded on the basic belief that we are all children of the same universe and, derived from that basic belief, has established two core tenets by which it expects its ministers to conduct themselves:

      Do only that which is right. Every individual is free to practice their religion in the manner of their choosing, as mandated by the First Amendment, so long as that expression does not impinge upon the rights or freedoms of others and is in accordance with the government’s laws.

      ULC into an ethical and inspiring beacon of freedom and justice around the world. We have been able (and continue) to mobilize our millions of ministers to act as champions of society’s underdogs and oppressed as the legacy of Christ, King, Kennedy, and Gandhi taught. Unlike other international churches our size, we will never ask our ULC ministers or congregants to bow before us or kiss our rings and we steadfastly reject the idea that a church’s members should be made to obey the commands of any central leadership structure — we are all equal.

    3. Eric Salazar's Avatar Eric Salazar

      If I read your comments I bet you didn't defend Barrack Hussein Obama with the same vigor you do Trump. I wonder why??? But hide behind this church as the reason we can't voice the truth on this forum. Side note... Really funny I just realized that Trumps first name is Donald... All this time I thought it started with the letter "F" lololololol.

      1. Michael Spinelli's Avatar Michael Spinelli

        I kept his picture of him and his family on my refrigerator. He was my President at that time. Its called respect. Your mommy should of taught u that. God Bless

  1. Mr.Antonio Rivera's Avatar Mr.Antonio Rivera

    Our faith.in jesus,not religion.or other,,,.its ur faith.that moves mountains. Jesus said in Mathew,,,that if u bealive.all things are possible, if you bealive.plus.in my name, in the name of jesus.u will perform miracles,,,,,but only in his name, that is above and under.and in the center of heaven and earth.

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      It seems then, from what you’re saying, that the faith of those that believe in your Jesus could possibly save people from death of not only the Covid-19 virus but from all illnesses. Forget the moving of the mountains bit, instead, perhaps you could send some of your Jesus friends, with all their faith, to the hospital wards of children dying of cancer, just as a starter. I look forward to hearing of your success in all the newspapers very soon. If I don’t hear from you on the news I will assume that your above comments are as worthless as I’m thinking your god is, but I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and genuinely hope your comments have great merit and precious little children will get well. What better advert, and opportunity, could your god want to prove he is real.

      🦁❤️

  1. Reverend Steve's Avatar Reverend Steve

    I'm a Catholic and I was acquainted with the late Father Halloran who assisted in the well-known [at the time] exorcism of the 13 year old boy that served as the basis for William Peter Blatty's blockbuster book "The Exorcist" in 1971. Possession and Exorcism are real and rare. The case of "Ronald Doe" (not his real name) involved college educated parents, a reputable hospital, the police, the press, doctors and psychiatrists and finally, the Vatican. This occurred initially in Maryland where I lived. Although I was only 6 years old the the story headlined the local papers, as I grew up, Ronald's story was very legitimate to me and all other local people.Twenty years ago I met and spoke with Father Halloran about the incident.Halloran was a tough old guy, and detailed the story with a dispassionate recollection that left me with no doubt of his veracity. Long story short, Demonic possession is indeed rare if genuine, and indeed fraudulent or misinterpreted 99% of the time. The very idea of demonic possession has been ruthlessly exploited by avaricious televangelists and Gypsies for as long as anyone can remember. The Vatican is very sensible and serious about this extremely rare phenomenon, and it's trained Exorcists are the ONLY people who can rectify this mysterious conundrum. I agree with Kenneth Salvage (above) than amateur or "rogue" Exorcists should be banned; they are dangerous and ineffective. I'm a former police officer and I have seen lots of crazy stuff, and a lot of people who thought they or their relative were "possessed." They weren't - they were just crazy most of the time - or on drugs. But if you've seen a real case, you become a believer pretty quick, and you literally thank God for the church and her devoted professionals.

  1. John R's Avatar John R

    People have the capacity to believe what they want ... and not to believe something they don't.

  1. Gregory Lynn Valentine's Avatar Gregory Lynn Valentine

    Please Watch St. ANNELIESE MICHEL https://youtu.be/_E-5u5Hpkcw

  1. Albert Yeung's Avatar Albert Yeung

    Needs rating of any known exocist so no cheat cheat money and woman.

    1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      If by "no cheat cheat money and woman." you mean you or someone else has a problem with cheating, money and woman, then that would be a psychological problem and not a demonic problem. Then you or that someone else should seek out a psychiatrist and not an exorcist

      1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

        Or maybe even Dr. Ruth.

        1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

          Yeah she would be perfect.

    2. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      Really and since when did the Universal Life Church Monastery become the church of Trump and who in the hell make you it bishop.

      So stop acting like a religious tyrant and start respecting other peoples rights!

      The Universal Life Church’s Stance The Universal Life Church has long championed the cause of religious freedom, but it has also stalwartly admonished against the folly of religious tyranny. True religious freedom means the right to exercise your religion in peace and harmony while also respecting the freedoms of others. It does not mean steamrolling over their freedoms; it does not mean controlling every aspect of their lives; and it is not a free pass to do whatever you want on the grounds of personal faith. Religious freedom ends when it seeks dominion over the basic freedoms of others.

  1. Steven Michel Rawlings's Avatar Steven Michel Rawlings

    When it comes to matters of spirits- we are all amateurs. Even we’ll practices mediums are challenged when it comes to benevolent spirits. The Catholics have the advantage of centuries of documentation that they intentionally keep hidden and confidential in the archives of the Vatican library. According to a religion professor I had who was librarian in the Vatican, there are many accounts of exercise, each of which are different. But one thing g is constant, if you are afraid, don’t try it. All demons find our greatest fears and use them against us. The reality is, the physical relm is our.. but the spiritual plane is theirs. If you are confident and fearless, they cannot maintain in this physical plane. Show them fear and you are weak. If you cannot be fearless, don’t try it, no matter how Experienced.

  1. Ferdinand Tauscheck's Avatar Ferdinand Tauscheck

    Should this not be about the spiritual well being of people. No need for money!

  1. William Mitchell's Avatar William Mitchell

    How can you trust the catholic church? What if Satan is working within the catholic church. The pope seems to be making bad decisions nowadays.

    1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      Yeah, yeah, Yeah, I have heard all that before. The Vatican City is the pits of hell and the Pope is the devil incarnate yada yada yada. Really get a life I could say the same about the white House and Trump, However I know the devil would never go so low as to be associated with a sleazebag like Trump.

      1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

        Satan had no problem associating with Obama, so I’m sure if he wanted to associate with Trump it wouldn’t be a problem, but Trump is doing such a good job that Satan would rather get into the heads of Pelosi, which is driving her to drink, and into the head of Biden which is obviously messing with his ability to think and speak clearly.

        🦁❤️

        1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

          Obama just naturally gets along well with everyone even Satan loves him. Satan doing that so Pelosi and Biden can give Trump a real taste of hell.

        2. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

          Oh yeah, right, Trumpelstiltskin, who never makes any statements about covid-19, racial injustice, police brutality, or anything else of consequence or deals with any of it or tells us about his plans for his desperate and imaginary "second term" is an example of "someone who speaks and thinks clearly", while Biden, who is talking about all these matters and about his plans for his actual upcoming election as President in November and for his next term in 2024, too, is an example of "someone who can't speak or think clearly". I'm going to remind you constantly of your predictions of "victory for Trump" after he loses in November and gets thrown out of the White House when he refuses to leave in January and ridicule you mercilessly over it!!!

          1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

            I get the feeling from you John that you actually believe Joe Biden is going to win the election, assuming he comes out of his basement and remembers where he is. I bet you actually believe Nancy Pelosi isn’t an alcoholic, and that’s ok.

            By-the-way, I know you might find this also hard to believe, but the earth isn’t flat, and Santa Clause isn’t real.

            🦁❤️

            1. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

              I get the feeling from you, Lionheart, that you actually believe that Trumpelstiltskin is going to be elected for a second term, despite all the evidence staring you in the face that he won't be and the fact that everybody here in the country and the world hates his guts and only angry old white men are on his side!! That really makes you the delusional and confused one here and somebody who still thinks that "the Earth is flat" and who believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy!! Come out of your own delusions and confusion first before you try to lecture anyone else about "their confusion and delusions"!! "Lionheart" is only your handle in this blog, but not your actual nature and level of courage!!

              1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

                The proof of the pudding will of course be in the eating, on November 3rd, which will show Trump winning by a landslide majority. The riots, and looting, are killing the Democrat party.

                🦁❤️

              2. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                The proof of the pudding will be your eating your own words on November 3rd when Joe Biden wins by a landslide over Trumpelstiltskin and I begin ridiculing you and all other Trumpophiles mercilessly for all your predictions of "victory for Trump"!! That will be a double victory for me by ridiculing you and Trump and for the country, and that is how confident I am that Trump will lose that I'm saying it now!!! The only way that he coild "win" is by cheating and stealing the election, as he is trying to do with the post office now. Other than that, he is gone and will be kicked out on January 20th, if he refuses to leave voluntarily, which would be fun to watch, too!! Go on and keep your head buried in the sand and refusing to see the truth and what's going on around you and deluding yourself until then because that will make your humiliation so much sweeter for me!! Do you even look at the polls at all?!! Trump is responsible for all the riots against him because of his support of police brutality and corruption in law enforcement and his own Justice Department and using tear gas to drive peaceful protesters out of a park just so that he could have a photo op holding a Bible upside down in front of a church---against the wishes of the pastor. He is responsible for those riots and for the peaceful protests against him, which are destroying the Republican Party and dragging it down with him, as any honest observer can see is happening!!!

              3. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

                Hey John, I want whatever you are on. It must be LSD...right? It’s a great hallucinogenic drug.

                🦁❤️

              4. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Hey, Lionheart, if telling the truth, facing facts and reality, and talking common sense means that you must be high on something, such as LSD, you need much more of those "drugs" yourself!!! It's called Truth Serum!! What the Hell drugs are you taking that have you so delusional and believing in and telling LIES!! all the time!! Is it Lies Serum? Believe whatever you want because it will guarantee my ridiculing you and Trumpelstiltskin on November 3rd!!! Get ready for that!!!

              5. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Hey, "Lionheart" (in your dreams!!), truth telling and accurate observation and exposing lies such as yours, as I do, aren't the result of taking any drugs, except Truth Serum, but only of being honest. What drugs are you taking that make you so delusional, evasive, gullible, brainwashed, and hypnotized because those drugs that you are on make any other drugs, including LSD, weak and pale in comparison!! Come off your drugs before you talk about anyone else "being on drugs" and stop lying and believing Trumpelstiltskin's lies, stop being evasive and just answer the questions and points in my posts, and come out of your hypnosis and delusions about him!!!

              6. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

                I see that our wonderful president has now been nominated for TWO Nobel prizes. Isn’t it nice that people recognize his talents and true gift to bring nations together, unlike the divisive Barack Obama?

                🦁❤️

              7. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                And Adolf Hitler (Trumpelstiltskin's mentor, role model, and former incarnation) was hailed by the Catholic hierarchy as "the God sent Savior of Germany" for a time and was Man of the Year in Time magazine and received other accolades! So, why wouldn't this incarnation of Hitler similarly pull the wool over people's eyes and convince some fools that he is "great" and a "peacemaker"?!! What's your point? Still practicing your evasiveness, smoke screens, and game playing I see, since your "president" is the worst president in U.S. history, while Obama is one of the best presidents in U.S. history across the internet, country, and world!!! That is certainly unusual when, as you say, "people recognize Trump's talents and true gifts to bring nations together, unlike the divisive Barack Obama". Trump can't even bring America together and get all people here behind him, but, oh yeah, right, "he can bring nations together"!! Have you been practicing your concession speech for the night of November 3rd, along with Trumpelstiltskin, as he sees he will be giving when he loses the 2020 election because you know that you will need it and don't want to wait until the last minute on that?!!

              8. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Chickenheart (alias "Lionheart"), I see that you are evasive and delusional, as usual, about answering what kinds of drugs you are taking that make you so delusional, dishonest, and evasive all the time!! Trumpelstiltskin's "being nominated for Nobel prizes" is just more evasiveness and camouflage, the same as it was for his former incarnation Adolf Hitler, who was praised to the skies as "the God-sent savior of Germany", for a time, and received other accolades and was Man of the Year in Time magazine. Those accolades, praises, and honors didn't change the truth about what Hitler really was and "nominations for Nobel prizes" and other attempts to pull the wool over people's eyes, as has been done to you and your ilk, don't change the truth about what Trumpelstiltskin really is!! He couldn't be all that "wonderful of a president" when he is condemned as the worst president in U.S. history all through the internet, country, and world, while Barack Obama is called one of the best presidents in U.S. history by those same sources!! Only your "president's" hypnotized and brainwashed drones consider him "the best president ever", while all non-hypnotized and non-brainwashed people know and admit the real truth about him!! Have you been practicing your concession speech for November 3rd when Trumpelstiltskin loses the election to Joe Biden's landslide victory over him and been preparing yourself for that and your humiliation by me and many others because you really don't want to wait until the last minute to do that?!!

              9. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

                Delusional, which is what you are is an adjective adjective: delusional characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder. "hospitalization for schizophrenia and delusional paranoia" based on or having faulty judgement; mistaken. "their delusional belief in the project's merits never wavers"

              10. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Chickenheart (or would you prefer The Cowardly Lionheart?), "delusional: characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder, etc." describes you perfectly because you are contradicted by reality and rational argument and all the polls and evidence all around you that screams at you that your "president" is going to lose the 2020 election to Biden, but still you go right on saying that "Trumpelstiltskin will win"!! When somebody looks up "delusional" in the encyclopedia or dictionary, they see your picture!!! Adolf Hitler kept visualizing "victory" down in his bunker at the end of W.W.II as the Russians were bombing Berlin into rubble because he needed to turn that situation around and thought that enough visualizing and willpower against the overwhelming reality confronting him could make him "victorious over his enemies". Likewise, you "think" that enough insane and blind insistence on "Trumpelstiltskin's victory in November" will overcome all the reality and evidence against you that is shouting in your face that he won't win, but you will be just as disillusioned as Hitler was by the Allies' victory over him when your guy loses in a landslide victory for Joe Biden on November 3rd!!! Tell yourself whatever fantasies and lies that you want, if they help you to get through the night, but still know that I and others will be ridiculing you mercilessly when Trumpelstiltskin loses the election!! Get ready for that!!!

              11. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Chickenheart, since you haven't replied since Sept. 14th, may we assume that it is dawning even on you that Trumpelstiltskin is going to lose the election because of his terrible debate performance and his contracting covid-19 and everything else that has gone wrong for him and you are just too embarassed and humiliated by that to post in here anynore?!! The worst for you and the best for us is yet to come on November 3rd when it is finally over for him and on January 20th, if he refuses to leave voluntarily, and gets thrown down the stairs and booted out the front door of the White House---and your real daily humiliation begins!!!

              12. John D. Partin's Avatar John D. Partin

                Well, Chickenheart, has Joe Biden's being declared the President-Elect of the United States' finally woke you out of your self-induced slumber and bunker "victory" visualizations of "Trump's getting a second term" or are you still insanely and desperately clinging to those fantasies, despite the reality of his defeat staring you in the face, the same as a Flat Earth Society member who won't be convinced by any amount of photos from space clearly showing a round Earth and testimonies of astronauts who have observed Earth from space, as well as every other fanatical and unreasonable and unreachable by evidence person in the world?!! What other of your delusions will you now admit are delusions, now that "Trump's second term" has been shown to be a delusion?!! What else are you WRONG!!! about, since you have been proved to be so very WRONG!!! about that?!!!

      2. Reverend Steve's Avatar Reverend Steve

        Kudos, Kosse. I agree. No self-respecting evil demon or spirit would have anything to do with a piece of human filth like Trump

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          Well, Israel and Saudi Arabia have, and a peace deal has materialized. Could our President be in line for a Nobel Peace Prize?

          🦁❤️

  1. Waya's Avatar Waya

    Please, please crack down on the Exorcist for Profit, Reverend (or Doctor from his correspondence title) Reverend Bob Larson, who is gouging "patients" without concern for HIPPA (he publicly annouces whether or not the person is sexually abused, even though the person's "possessed" status should not be announced at his seminar/freak shows) or privacy laws. At 300.00 an hour to have your body wacked by his Bible, and have you screamed at for the entire time. He has been duping people for profit for decades, and charging 1000.00 for his so called University of Exorcism. Please I pray they crack him down and put him out of business.

    1. T Kosse`'s Avatar T Kosse`

      The Bob Larson Experience

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVHD9eHckeU

      https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2019/01/03/exorcist-bob-larson-unwittingly-rid-the-demons-of-an-undercover-atheist/

  1. Frances Zibert's Avatar Frances Zibert

    I had an exorcism done when I was 16. The fundamentalist minister that did it believed that since I had epileptic seizures I was full of demons. Didn't work and I think I was just an experiment for him. Real spiritual power imo is lead by the impulse of the inner, not by curiosity or judgement of the mind.

  1. Martin Norman Bates's Avatar Martin Norman Bates

    My ancestors have been performing many purification rites, including exorcisms since before the pyramids

  1. Mya-Lia Sharizyn's Avatar Mya-Lia Sharizyn

    Yes, experience is required because through the process of getting experience, one develops training and skills. Another requirement is a higher power that is present with the one performing it. This is Source. Don't mess with Source or with anyone who is part of Source.

    Amateurs only? Not hardly. Catholic Church only? Not hardly. *Backing of experience in exorcism with higher power as Source? Absolutely.

  1. Carl Bernard Elfstrom's Avatar Carl Bernard Elfstrom

    I am voting for Biden, so there!

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Were you the one person I saw at his rally?

      🦁❤️

  1. Joerg Hornemann's Avatar Joerg Hornemann

    hi could we open the possibility that the possesed are shaman. thats what poped into my mind because ive seen the movie "a bigger world" where a women felt in trance while hearing shaman drums and some of you had put the case of anneliese michel into it. so we shouldnt let the catholics completly overrun the discussion and let em kill whats not in there way of there roman katholic way and open the kindergarten at least to thimothy learys "interpersonal diagnosis of personalty". i know the shaman sacrifice booze and zigarettes to the ghosts to make em mild but we should go away from the understanding that god is a mighty punishing father and the spiritualst thing is to understand the pragmatism of things and teach ... or learn when its more necessary to call a shaman to help and teach and it would be allowed through the witchhammer (maleficus maleficarum) cause the bible say that one king went to a witch to help by some and it says that if god wants it magic exists.

  1. Robert Charles Lunt's Avatar Robert Charles Lunt

    First a true demon encounter is very very rare. this whole attitude of it must be a demon is a crock. second most of yall spouting off would probably crap their pants and run at the first encounter with a real demon. They can see into your heart and soul. you better have all your ducks in a row. you better know what your buried secrets are and be at least be prepared to have them revealed. The first one i participated in went okay the demon was removed however some steps were not done correctly and there were ramifications for years. I have learned. Now I am much more careful in my approach. No money has ever been involved when I have offered or been requested to help.Although if there is anyone out there that is rich and needs help!! All kidding aside my friends and I are not members of a church. We work at the direction of Source. We do follow the vaticans guidelines in respect to process. Remember the universe is not as weirdly wild and wonderful as you can imagine It's so much more than we can conceive in the limits of our meatsuit. Quote from a demon "your christian symbols mean nothing to me!"

    The schizophrenic is drowning in the very same water the mystic swims with delight - Joseph Campbell

  1. Christian's Avatar Christian

    Salvation was Finished on the Cross of Christ. ALL sin of ALL time for ALL beings has been forgiven by the POWER of CHRIST Jesus...

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      That’s an interesting thought isn’t it. There are some wonderful quotes and Mythical ideas in the Harry Potter books by Dumbledore as well. I think you’d enjoy them. Just as a spoiler though, don’t take them serious, I get the feeling you might be open to irrational mythical thought as being truth.

      🦁❤️

  1. Diana Heineck's Avatar Diana Heineck

    I read an excellent book on possession. It was the result of a academic conference. As such, views on the subject were written by well-educated, experienced theologians. It discussed many aspects on the subject including how it is often a process, rather than an acute onset. Although, it may be sudden. What struck me was how becoming addicted and this process are very similar and cyclic. It also had an excellent discussion about how to discern demon possession from mental health or other issues.

    I had a friend who's niece she felt was possessed. She said she witnessed her engage is very disturbing behavior and she had tried like five times and finally succeeded in killing herself.

    The tittle was Possession.

    I have often felt that addiction is a form of possession. I have seen people literally morph who were under the influence which it is pretty flipping strange since I am pretty conservative.

    It did also mention that the casting out of demons is very serious in that often we are familiar with those that reside within and even scripture says a man casts out demons from his house only to have more stronger than before reenter.

    Whatever one believes this is a serious matter and the requester should be taken seriously because anyone who is seeking out this service is in extreme emotional pain and needs to be assisted regardless of means to pay. Which is the worst kind of sin.....to withhold help on the basis to pay.

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