Should Satanism be taught to elementary students after school? An after-school Satan Club in an Illinois school is prompting outrage from parents and religious groups alike.
But they say they’re well within their rights to bring Satan to children, arguing the law is on their side.
What the Hell?!
It all started last month in Moline, Illinois, when parents noticed flyers advertising an “after-school Satan club” around the school. Jane Addams Elementary students were invited to attend five different meetings of the After School Satan Club in early 2022, with presumably more to come in the future.
The flyers, featuring a cartoon Satan, chemistry-doing Baphomet, and cutesy blue border, advertised things like: “Science Projects! Puzzles & Games! Arts and Craft Projects! Nature Activities!”
Many local parents were unamused. Others were downright mad, and promptly complained to school officials. For its part, the school district basically told them "sorry, there’s nothing we can do."
“Religiously affiliated groups are among those allowed to rent our facilities for a fee. The district has, in the past, approved these types of groups, one example being the Good News Club, which is an after-school child evangelism fellowship group,” the district's official statement read. “Please note that the district must provide equal access to all groups and that students need parental permission to attend any after-school event.”
Parents and concerned community members have apparently protested each meeting of the after-school Satan Club so far, despite reports that only a handful of students were in attendance.
Careful What You Wish For
How did this come about?
The origins of this controversy can be traced back to a 2001 case involving Good News Club, a religious initiative “whose purpose is to evangelize boys and girls with the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ,” according to their website. The Good News Club sued a New York school district after their request to use school facilities after hours was denied on the grounds that they’re a religious organization.
The case went to the Supreme Court, which ruled that preventing after-school programs sponsored by religious groups was a violation of free speech. Within ten years, Good News Clubs were hosting after-school programs in thousands of schools across America.
The After School Satan Club appears to be a direct response to this initiative – an alternative, non-Christian space for children to gather. The club claims to "give children an appreciation of the natural wonders surrounding them, not a fear of everlasting other-worldly horrors.”
While the exact curriculum of the clubs is not known, flyers passed around the school stressed that students would learn scientific reasoning and rationality, as well as empathy and creative expression. “Satan Club does not attempt to convert children to any religious ideology,” and instead "supports children to think for themselves,” its organizers say.
What do you think? If Christian after-school programs are permitted, is it only fair that other faiths should be represented, too? Or should children be protected from "Satanic" teachings?
This is exactly what the law "Christians sued for" allows. The fact they call it The Satan Club is probably just to horrify parents, which is exactly what it did. Good for them. The parents can't seem to get past the name. The club is teaching kids how to think. I love how all the pearl-clutching, righteous, God-fearing hypocrites are all atwitter. Lol!
The symbols "Satan" possibly translate to "Live long and prosper" in the Vulcan language of Mr. Spock. Ignorance never considers what is actually meant. Some noises in different languages probably translate to rude things in other languages. Everyone (+2/3 of global population) does NOT speak a European derivative.
This is good. The main point is to have equal access for all religions, or even better, no religious clubs in public schools.
@Master Wolf KSC
That is what made this appealing to outsiders. America welcomes all regardless of what they believe.
It would be good if it taught the fallacies and errors of Satanic "thinking" and wasn't unfairly just a proselytizing and recruiting club for Satanism, which isn't allowed for Christianity in the public schools. Yes, better no religious clubs in public schools than allowing wrong "thinking" religious clubs in them, too, and let right religion be taught at home, instead of in schools, where to let everyone have their say, wrong "thinking" would have to be taught. Satanism, despite it's public relations image, self promotion, and propaganda about itself, is, in reality, all the evil that is being done in the world (rape, pedophilia, serial killings, the Holocausts against any people, Communism, child pornography, white slavery, etc...as nauseam!!), and it's public relations image is as phony as a Mafia boss' claiming to be a "legitimate businessman"!! If that reality of Satanism can be made clear to children in Satanic clubs in schools, then they would serve a necessary and good purpose and should be allowed for that reason of educating the children away from all that "thinking"!! It doesn't make pedophilia "a Christian practice" because it is done by some so-called "priests" and "ministers" because they aren't following the actual teachings of Christ, who said "If anyone offends one of these little ones who have put their trust in me, it were better for him that a millstone were tied around his neck and he were cast into the depths of the sea" and "suffer the little children to come unto me and do not forbid them, for of such is the kingdom of heaven and their spirits always look upon my Father's face in heaven". So, pedophilia and really all these other evils, though done by some Christians, are not from God, but from Satan!!!
The primary difference between satanists and Christians? Satanists don’t actually believe in Satan. As always right wing Christians trying grasp at straws by conflating communism as an ideal with great evils whilst ignoring evil done in Christ’s name today and the last couple Millenia. “White slavery” is a dead give away to your line of theocratic thinking. Gross.
Robert James Ruhnke, Satanists' not believing that there is an actual Satan and Satan's not being actual are two different things. He doesn't care if they or you believe that he exists, since your unbelief has no effect on his existence, but only that they and you do what he suggests to you and tells you to do. In fact, he works better when people don't believe in his existence because, then, they aren't on their guard against him and don't take precautions against him. Did you know that Karl Marx wrote Satanic poetry, praising Satan, and, of course, notoriously said that "religion is the opiate of the people", as a Satanist would naturally say?!! The evils done "in Christ's name" were done in defiance of the teachings of Christ and against His commandment that we love one another, as He has loved us, and saying "by this will all men know that you are my disciples: if you have love for one another", and so were inspired by Satan to defame Christianity. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord', will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father in Heaven". White slavery and all the other evils that I listed and more are from Satan, and not in accord with the love commanded by Christ.
May the Goddess light your shadowed path. Everything you listed is older than Christ. It’s not a product of Satan, but man, and his greed, lust, pride, and anger. Satan is as made up as hell is. A construct made by man as a means of manipulation and control. Marx isn’t the end all be all of communism and the ideal of mutual aid. There are other thinkers behind it. Whilst he did write that poetry, I’d say those who spread Christianity by the blade are far worse than any atheist. Christian conservatives love to crow about the 100 million killed by communists, but refuse to look at the body count committed by Christians. Whether it be Protestants or Catholics, it matters not, both spread their ideology like a blight. A blight that still festers in this world today. You’re a white supremacist drunk on social fictions. I’ll pray for you.
If the "Goddess" doesn't "light my path" or "know darkness from light" any better for me than, apparently, she does for you, it wouldn't do me any more good than it has done you and I would be stumbling around in pitch darkness as much as you are!! Prove that lust, greed, pride, and anger aren't incited in man by Satan and that Satan and Hell are just made up and "a construct made by man as a means of manipulation and control" or admit that you have no evidence for your beliefs and don't know what in the Hell you are talking about!! Other writers also being behind Communism don't negate what the foremost writer behind it had to say or his inspiration by and dedication to Satan!! No group of "Christians" or any other people merely swinging blades around can possibly compete in body counts with divisions and whole armies mowing people down with machine guns, tanks, grenades, bombs, flame throwers, and other modern weapons of warfare, and so couldn't possibly have exceeded the body count achieved through those modern methods of warfare!! Again, where is your evidence that "Christians" have killed more people down through history than have Communists, not to mention Nazis, instead of your just tossing out a statement without any corroboration?!! There weren't even more than 100 million people in all of Europe during the Inquisition or Crusades for "Christians" to have killed them all and left Europe empty, if they had been capable of doing it, which they weren't!!! No people are Christian just by calling themselves "Christians", but only by meeting Christ's requirements for calling themselves Christians. "By this will all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another". "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord', will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven". Christianity isn't a blight, since true Christianity teaches love, mercy, and forgiveness, and that isn't any kind of blight, but only a blessing in this world!! I'm not a white supremacist at all and nobody is a white supremacist just because of daring to disagree with you and that statement of yours is more evidence of your irrational, erratic, and sloppy "thinking", and Christianity isn't a social fiction, as are your beliefs!! You need to stop judging other people by yourself and clean up your own house and "thinking" before commenting on anyone else's!!! "First, remove the beam from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye". People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!!!
I’m not throwing stones, fanatic. I’m just casually calling your belief system a wide spread violent cult that was spread through violence more so than peace. Youre practically foaming at the mouth. I left the church, Christ’s teachings fell on deaf ears like yours. 700 million, that’s how many have allegedly died since the crucifixion it Christ. It’s funny that you mention Nazis. They had help from Christians and Catholics all through out the war. Catholics help many Nazis escape to South America. You combine the total dead that have been killed in the 2000 years since the crucifixion. It’s really not that hard of a concept to understand. And that’s not counting the millions of natives who wanted nothing to do with the west or it’s cult and we’re murdered for it. It’s funny you mention a nearly devoid Europe. During the Black Death a pope ordered cats be killed because they were in league with the devil. Cats were one of the few things that kept rats in check. Fleas were the issue causing the plague, not Satan. It’s called opening up a history book or two and realizing that your beliefs were spread by violence. Satan wasn’t even mentioned until the 2nd century ad. History is more than the Bible. History is older than the Bible. Thanks to the valiant efforts of archeologists, we can piece together how people have lived. Other religions, other holy men, have taught about peace and love. There are societies older than Christianity. It’s really not that hard to deduce a body count by taking a hard look beyond superstition and dogma. Again, may the goddess, an older concept of divine wisdom, light your shadowed path. All she require you to do is pull your head out of the sand. Then you’ll see the glory of the stars. Their dying light will wash away all the insanity that fills your mind from all the years of being indoctrinated into the Christ cult. Which, if you knew any better. He never wanted. The first peoples to be slaughtered and bullied by Christ’s blind cultists were the Gnostics by the orthodox following Christians. Again, this requires your to open a history text and look at the facts instead of continued belief in blind dogma. I’ll pray for you.
If calling me a "fanatic" and "casually calling your belief system a wide spread violent cult that was spread through violence more so than peace" and saying that "you're practically foaming at the mouth" aren't throwing stones, I would really hate to be around you when you do start throwing stones because all of that will pass for throwing stones until the real thing comes along!! Since you left the church, Christ's teachings fell on your deaf ears because you allowed people to come between you and Christ and keep you from remaining in the church and so, being deaf yourself, aren't in a position to judge anyone else's "deafness" when you don't even recognize and admit your own deafness!! "First remove the beam from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye". "Judge not that you be not judged, for with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged, and the measure with which you mete will be measured to you again". You shouldn't have allowed the tares in the Church to drive you out of or make you leave the Church, since Christ told us that there will be tares (false "Christians") in the Church, alongside the wheat (true Christians"), but the tares shouldn't be cut down now because the wheat would be hurt, too, and the tares will be collected at the end and burned. We shouldn't let the tares drive us out of the Church!! You think that anything more than no faith in or standing up for Christ is "fanaticism", but that is, clearly, wrong thinking and a double standard on your part, since you don't think that your own belief system is fanatical, and standing up for Christ is just what we should be doing and not fanatical!! Those so-called "Catholics" and "Christians" who assisted Nazis weren't true Christians because true Christians don't cooperate with or help evil. Just someone's calling himself or herself a "Christian" doesn't actually make that person a Christian, but only following Christ's teachings make anyone a Christian. Christ gave the requirement and definition of Christian: "By this will all men know that you are my disciples: if you have love for one another". Even Popes saying some superstitious things, such as blaming cats for the Black Death, don't invalidate all of the Papacy or Catholicism, since Popes are human beings and so can be wrong about some things, the same as anyone else, and our faith isn't dependent on their always being right about everything, but only on Christ. Satan's not being mentioned until the 2nd century doesn't prove that he wasn't active before then. History is older than the Bible, but God is far older, by billions of years and infinitely before that, than history, and so history doesn't disprove God. God is far older than your "goddess", which is a Pagan concept. There have been holy men in other religions who have taught love and peace because God loves everyone and wasn't going to leave people without any light at all, the same as He didn't leave His own Jewish people to whom He revealed His message through Moses and Abraham, since they were most open to it, without any light at all, but when the most of God's light has come into the world, the lesser manifestations of His light aren't as necessary anymore. You have it backwards in your mind and the lesser manifestations of God's light and truth before Christ are "superior to the light of Christ" and the Light of Christ is "inferior to these former manifestations of God's light and truth" because of your allowing people to drive you out of the Church, while still needing some light. Open your mind and heart again to the Light of Christ and you will no longer require the lesser light of the "goddess" to light your path! False "Christians" slaughtering and bullying Gnostics and others down through history can't reasonably be blamed on true Christians or the Church. Faith in Christ isn't blind dogma. I will pray for you that God will open your mind and heart to His Light and Truth, so that you will no longer require substitutes for and imitations of it.
To say my goddess is a lesser light is nothing more than ignorant hubris. Those weren’t false Christians committing woes onto humanity. They were just Christians of various dogmatic cults that were propped up at sword point and violence through the years. Catholics killing Protestants, Protestants killing Catholics, Catholics killing Jews and Muslims. That’s your answer, False Christians killing false Christians? How obtuse. I have no problems with the actual teachings and wisdom Christ actually preached. The dogma and superstition that’s been blighting there world were spread in his name you call truth are but a torch compared to the full scope of the truth that’s out there. My Goddess called me from the church, nursed the wound of my soul and replenished my spirit. Along this path I’ve learned of Christ’s teachings. Things that cannot be found in the church today. You walk a shadowed path because you’ve stared at the torch too long. May Goddess bless you with sight and Epiphany that the truth lays beyond church and the occult.
Robert, Your responses were well reasoned, while Mr. Partin's were just bloviating utter non-sense. I will give him credit however. His use of logical fallacies is well developed. I found his demands that you provide proof that Satan/hell does not exist, while providing no evidence to the contrary was particularly amusing. Even more so when given the fact that there is no demonstrable evidence that a Christ ever actually existed/exists. Your Goddess sounds just as credible to me. Personally, thanks to George Carlin, I now worship the Sun, and pray to Joe Pesci.
What is your standard or basis for deciding that Robert's responses were "well reasoned", while mine were "just bloviating utter nonsense", that doesn't actually prove your own assessment as faulty as that of Robert and, therefore, renders you an incompetent judge of the matter?!! Proof of Hell and Satan are out of body experiences, where people have seen them in visions, which weren't just imagination because those people reported activities and words of doctors and nurses in other parts of hospitals that they had no way of knowing anything about. So, since they were correct about that, it is arbitrary and inconsistent and self-contradictory to say that they were wrong about the visions. Voice recordings of people screaming in torment when played back later and no voices had been heard at the time of recording prove the existence of spirits and a dimension where they were speaking from. Paranormal phenomena around the world have convinced many skeptics and atheists of the existence of the spirit world. "There is more in heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy". A wise-acre comedian, such as George Carlin or Bill Maher or any other such person, is hardly anyone that any reasonable people should be basing their view of life and eternity on!!
The evidence you just said is nothing but hearsay , Mr. Partin. Your view of reality is nothing but black and white twisted nonsense. How sad.
No more than personal testimony in a court of law is "just hearsay" are these testimonials from people who have had out of the body experiences and saw Heaven or Hell in them or heard voices in recordings that weren't there when the recordings were made or experienced paranormal phenomena "just hearsay". It is very sad, indeed, that you don't know the difference between hearsay and non-hearsay and mistake these people's personal testimony for "hearsay", just because it would be inconvenient and damaging to your "case" if they are true. Even sadder still for you!!!
I forgive you for bloviating utter non-sense. It's quite obvious that you just can't help yourself. Some counseling might help, or at least try to get more roughage in your diet.
If you want to stop being ignored and ridiculed, Sheehan, stop being so ignorable and ridiculous and pulling utter nonsense out of your behind, while accusing other people of doing what you are doing, and eat better yourself, so that you aren't so obnoxious anymore!!!
Joe Pesci is the Sun, John. You’re wise to do so. The gods are and have always been the reflection to our mirror of the cosmos. I prefer just gods and goddesses who don’t threaten people with eternity. Whether it be eternal hell or eternal paradise. That’s just boring and myopic thinking. Nothing is truly finite or infinite. All things have an ending and beginning.
Those were false "Christians" committing woes onto humanity because true Christians don't do unto others what they wouldn't want others to do unto them (killing, torturing, persecuting, etc.), in obedience to Jesus' teachings. "Christians of various dogmatic cults that were propped up at sword point and violence through the years" weren't true Christians because Jesus didn't command or approve of any of those methods for spreading or maintaining Christianity, but only love and forgiveness, and so any people who followed those methods or were indoctrinated in those methods were disobedient to Christ and not true Christians!! You haven't given me proof yet that "Satan and Hell are just made up and a construct made by man as a means of manipulation and control", as you said that they are and as I asked you for proof of in my post of February 24 at 8:58 a.m.. So, what's the holdup? Where is your proof? Or else admit that you have no proof of that and that your beliefs have no logical or reasonable foundation and are illogical, unrealistic, and foolish!! Stop stalling!! Catholics killing Protestants, Protestants killing Catholics, Catholics killing Jews and Muslims were all false "Christians" because they didn't love their neighbors as themselves or do unto others as they would have had others do unto them. If you actually had no problem with the teachings and wisdom of Christ, you wouldn't now be following the goddess and be a Pagan. Yes, some of the light of Christ has been obscured by men "in His name", but that light is still there underneath that obscurity and only requires a little searching to find it, as Jesus said to do by saying "Search the Scriptures" and, by extension, Search the Church, for they testify of Him!! So, your choices are search for Christ in the Church and the Scriptures, for "Seek and you will find, ask and it will be given you, and knock and the door shall be opened" or else just accept what is right on the surface, as a lure and temptation, in the "Goddess", and ignore what is just under the surface of that front with her and all the evil lurking underneath!!! Satan can appear as an "angel of light" or "the Goddess" in order to lure people into his trap, who are convinced, as you are, by superficialities and pretenses, because he wouldn't deceive as many people if he always appeared to them, obviously, as Satan!! "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see if they are of God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world". Prove that your "Goddess" isn't really Satan in disguise?!! If you can't, then admit that you have no evidence for your beliefs and that they are illogical, unreasonable, unrealistic, and foolish!! Satan would be willing to show you and other people some light outside of the Church, again to lure all of you into traps and lead you all down to Hell, with his breadcrumbs of "truth and light" that you follow right down to Hell!! There is some truth and light outside of the Church because God loves everyone and wouldn't leave other people without any light or truth at all, but when the most Light has come, the lesser lights aren't as necessary anymore. Nobody who has the light of the Sun still needs to light candles. If the "Goddess" weren't inferior to Christ, she and other demons couldn't be driven out by Christ during exorcisms. You are walking a shadowed path, even if you think that you are "righteous", as the Pharisees whom Jesus condemned did, too, and have had your eyesight weakened by staring at your "Goddess" too long!! May God bless you with sight and clear the shadows away from your mind and darkness away from your heart and true Epiphany that the truth lays within the holy Church of God!!!
Lol exorcism is just another word for torture. My Goddess is Mother Earth, my God is Sun, Life being the wonderful gift they both bring. They are wonderfully balanced. There are many stories of their love affair, and struggles. The cults of Abraham (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) have been a blight on this world, especially War mongering Christians and you are breathing proof of that. Your lot has been demonizing what they refuse to understand. You ignore the pain, torment, and fear Christians have spread. You are are the falsely righteous, and in your arrogance call me blind. People converting to Christianity to be spared torture and murder isn’t proof of your cult’s truth. An even then, that didn’t spare them indignation and murder. It’s proof humans will do any and say anything to survive how they must. But you wouldn’t know that because you’re blind to history. Also, the burden of proving hell exists, which the Catholic Church admitted to invent, lays on your hands. And no, the Bible, a product of man, is not proof enough. The Bible has been translated and transliterated from its original source, with pieces kept out for political reasons. Here is my judgement. Goddess bless your heart, because it is hypocritical of the highest order. May Sophia and Sol shine light on your shadowed path. May you know her love and may she guide you away from the cult like thinking that has plagued your sleep and the sleep of others. Goddess Bless you. 💜
There are no people who have been delivered from demonic possession who would agree with you that "exorcism is just another word for torture" because they were being tortured by evil spirits before exorcism freed them from that!! You keep bringing up the violence, pain, torment, and fear that some "Christians" have spread, but never mention the violence, pain, torment, and fear that many Pagans and lovers of Mother Earth and Sol have spread, and conveniently leave that out of your consideration and picture!! The Pagan Romans, under the direction of their Emperors, conducted 10 major persecutions against the Christian Church, and threw Christians to the lions for their own entertainment in the Coliseum, set them on fire to be torches in the Imperial Gardens, and drove Christians into meeting and living in the catacombs to hide out from the Romans' persecutions and genocide of them!! How could these things have been done to Christians by such "loving" people as you claim that lovers of the Goddess are?!! There wasn't a more militaristic and belligerent and vicious power in the ancient world than Imperial Rome, but how could that be if those traits and practices are only found among the Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam?!! Ancient Rome was a blight on this world, and it's imitators of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy and other dictatorships have continued that blight!! You just aren't in any position to lecture or talk down to Christians about violence, pain, torment, genocide, and fear, considering your own Pagan past!! Your Pagan gods and goddesses weren't very moral or loving beings, either, and "justified" and inspired the practices and attitudes of Pagan society, and were depicted as more immoral by that society to further "justify" their own behavior, in a vicious circle!! You are actually the falsely "righteous", with your history of Pagans behind you, lecturing Christians about love!! Other Pagan societies than Rome were also vicious, hateful, genocidal, war mongering, and violent, such as Japan, in their similar treatment of Christians and crucifying them, among other tortures and methods of killing them. Read St. Alphonsus Liguori's The Victories of the Martyrs, if you are open to reading some of our victimization at the hands of Pagans and don't just want to one-sidedly and unfairly focus only on what "Christians" have done to your groups, but not what Pagans have done to Christians!! But, of course, you will dismiss what Pagans have done to Christians and only focus on what "Christians" have done to Pagans. Your religions' murders aren't proof of your religions' truth, either. You can't have it both ways!! Some "Christians" sacrificed to idols and did whatever they could to survive, too. So, that isn't just something that Pagans have done for false "Christians". Hell isn't only proved by the Bible, but also by out of body experiences and visions of them where those who had them also told doctors and nurses what they said and did in other parts of the hospital that they couldn't have heard, voice recordings of people who are screaming when played back when no voices were heard doing that at the time of recording, and paranormal phenomena around the world, which have convinced skeptics and atheists of the existence of spirits and some of those spirits' being in Hell or Purgatory. No matter how much manipulation the Bible has been through, the truth of God still found its way in there and overcame all of that because man doesn't thwart or overcome God, but He overcomes man. So, it is you who is hypocritical of the highest order, and you are judging me and other people by yourself!! Here is my judgment: May God bless your heart and shine His light on your shadowed path and make you know His love and lead you away from your cult-like "thinking" that has plagued your sleep and waking life and those of others!! God bless you!!
It is true that many Christians were murdered at the hands of pagans. I’ll not deny that. But I’m not calling them false pagans lol. Pagans believed in good and evil, and they too were falsely led into believing Christians were evil. By their politicians and power hungry. But it was those power hungry who took over the cult of Christ and pushed for Christian’s to murder pagans, or push for their conversions later on. The funniest part of this conversation is that im not Roman lol. Nor do I worship Roman gods. It’s not just been Nazis who’ve been imitating Rome. All major European empires have tried to imitate Rome. An most of those forced Jews to convert at sword point. One other biggest conversions of Jews happened in Spain in the early 15th century. Those same Empires were largely Christian lol. Also. When Roman Pagans went to war, they invoked Mars and Jupiter. Not the Earth Mother or Sol. Your ignorance is astounding. “Your religions murders aren’t proof of your religions truth” is more true about Christianity than it is about Paganism. We had our humblings handed to us. Yet. It’s still been largely Christians the last 2000 years doing most of the murdering. But go ahead and keep making excuses.
As for exorcisms, they’re performed on people who most likely have mental health issues that your superstitious lot believe to be demonic possession. And are then tortured into be “saved” to very little help.
As for cult like. That’s the pot calling the kettle black. Lol. The Catholic Church already admitted to making up hell as a means of social control. I will say this fit pagans. We don’t threaten people with eternal damnation due to disagreements. Unlike many right wing Christians like yourself. An you know. You have a point. Now that I think about it. I know many Christians with a live and let live attitude towards nonbeliever. Not calling them false. Or demonic. Maybe it’s just “false” Christian’s like yourself that are problem. Lol May the Goddess bless your twisted heart.
There aren't any people who have been delivered from demonic possession who would agree with you that "exorcism is just another word for torture" because they were being tortured by evil spirits and exorcism freed them from that!! Also, since ULC isn't posting my longer and more complete response to you, Pagans and lovers of Mother Earth and Sol have spread pain, torment, fear, and violence against Christians, too, during the 10 major Roman persecutions of the Christians under the Roman Emperors. You only want to present a one-sided picture of "Christians" doing that to Pagans, but your people were doing it to Christians, too. Christians also, sometimes, sacrificed to idols to escape from Roman persecutions and genocide of Christians. So, that wasn't just done by "Christians" to Pagans, but by Pagans to Christians. How could people who were as "loving" as you say that Pagans are have done such things to Christians, when you say that that is "only done by the Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam"?!! Read St. Alphonsus Liguori's The Victories of the Martyrs and other books on Christian martyrs, if you are open to reading the other side of the story and not just your side. If my more complete answer ever gets published, I can refute you much better, but am frustrated and worn out by trying to send messages and they aren't getting posted!! May God bless you and lead you into His Light and Truth!!!
Ah, there it is, the "no true Scotsman" argument. That is sooooo lame. Surely you can make better use of ad hominem.
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Thank you, wonderfully written.
It's no worse than having christian clubs in schools. What goes around comes around, even though christians don't believe in the law of karma. Maybe this will change their minds about that. I hope they start a Satan club in every school in America. It serves those damn christians right. Ofcourse, one thing leads to another. Before long, don't be surprised to see other religions having such groups too. We could even get ULC groups started at schools.
“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!” - Isaiah 5:20 KJV
We live in the times now where a great many have forgotten what good is and unfortunately the Christian church is in no small part for this fault; for too long man has justified his wickedness by attempting to make God for a fool and deceiving those to believe it foolish to follow after Him. The purpose of spreading the gospel message is the realization of choice, you can choose to live with God or separate from Him and He will not interfere with your free decision. But, that is why hell is made for satan and his angels; because he chose against God. Jesus Christ was made the lamb of God to be the atoning sacrifice for man's rebellion and that only through His blood are we cleansed if we receive Him.
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” - John 14:6 KJV
In truth, I do not understand how people are so ill pressed against Jesus? Are you really turned away because of those who claim to believe in Him? Are you really going to turn down the possibility of eternal life just because of the history of the church in which man devised the Crusades, Salem witch trials, and so on... or your will to neglect the faith? God commanded no such things! Don't blame God for man's free decision to live like a hypocrite and or devise wicked schemes. I don't know much about this "club," but what I do know is that religion tends to hold a specific name and teach that name to their followers, this satanic temple claims to not believe in the devil, but the fact that they use Baphomet as their image is unsettling and that they give his name praise. This is a mystical deity and has it's original roots in Islam/Egyptian practices of varied rituals with the use of the pentagram for sexual magick and sacrificial offerings. It was picked up even by the Knights Templars as a practice too during the Crusades; the hypocrisy even from this cult is also on equal terms. In truth, whether this or evangelism is taught; neither are teaching about the true Jesus Christ who bled, died on a tree, and rose three days later that we might be saved from the day of judgment. Even Elon Musk and all the other rich folks are preparing for "aliens" to come here in the next couple of years which is why they're preparing satellites and rockets for evasive action. This climate change nonsense is due to man alright, but man isn't causing it; Jesus Christ is coming back soon to cleanse the world with fire and those who believe in Him will stand with Him just like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
YEAH and THEY ARE ALL G O PigS ! or DEVIL WORSHIPERS !
Wow Alasehir1495, you really need a better education of the Bible. First, as a Christian why are you using the Old Testament as reference? The New Testament is about Christ and his teachings. The Old Testament writes much about violent acts against those they disagree with. The New Testament is about love and compassion for others even if they are different than you.
Think of the Bible of a Book of Faith. It was written many years after the actual events and has the writers beliefs as part of the writing.
You wonder why people leave the Church? It’s because of people like you who accept the Bible as fact and attack others who believe something different. Where’s the love.
Hey there David! I'm not the most educated person when it comes to God's Word, but no man truly is. By my reference to Isaiah as well as other passages of the Old Testament, I hope with your understanding of the Bible that you'll find many teachings much about prophetic events and God's attributes around Jesus Christ is most certainly applicable as a teaching for today's standard. And you would realize that even much of the Old Testament is referred to in the New Testament as seen from Matthew from his several references to prophets and Psalms; as well as Mark and other allusions to the Old Testament, especially in Revelation. You'll hear some passages of scripture referring to such as Moses, Jonah, Enoch, etc. And Jesus Himself spoke well of Moses and Esaias. I heard you say The New Testament is about love to others even to them who are indifferent, you are most certainly correct, sir! But, I do not know where you get the audacity to assume I am not sharing love and instead attacking? You don't know me personally just as I the same to you. You asked where is the love? Jesus Himself said, “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.” - Matthew 10:34 Now, as a follower of Jesus Christ, if I know the fate of those who don't receive Him as their Lord and Savior from eternal death and don't reason with them, what kind of love am I truly professing? If you were drowning and I was able to save you, wouldn't you want to be saved? Or would you rather say, "I got this, I don't need you? So, likewise; as Paul and Peter did not live for the respect of persons as Jesus Himself did not; I am not going to appeal to an a watered down Gospel of what truly matters, I will abide to what Christ commands. And as for you, I know you have easy access to the resources as I do to know the truth; but for whatever reason it is you have chosen to separate yourself from knowing God personally. So, if your hope is in this life, you have a miserable ending knowing none of anything you do ultimately matters... So, I'd implore you to search the scriptures and the historicity circling around the Gospel message.
I want to reason with ya David and my hope is that you'll consider this saying. You may have concluded you know the answer well enough to say whatever it is you believe, but you believe in something; and you have to live with that with a question I offer you, "What is that I believe in, and what is the evidence for which I believe in to be true?" Is it science? Robert Jastrow who was one of the world's leading astronomers and founder of the Goddard Space Institute admitted that the evidence of the beginning of the universe pointed towards an intelligent creator. You do not get life from non existing life by chance and if you have ever seen such a thing, let me know. Do you believe in evolution? Colin Patterson, a senior paleontologist confessed after twenty years of his profession, not one single fact was ever truly known to him about evolution, but of course some here will say they know better about the subject than him, right? Or another astronomer, Sir Fred Hoyle said the chance of producing the basic enzymes of life by random process without intelligent direction would be about one in 10 with 40,000 zeroes after it... in other word, impossible! No one likes to be wrong and the quote can't be more true, “It’s easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled.” - Mark Twain
I love God, I love Him very dearly and the love of God is to bring His message of hope to those who live a life separate from life itself, I haven't the slightest idea why people so easily believe in the theories given and taught that is based on so little evidence that requires more faith to have than it is to believe in Jesus Christ. Paul said, "But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins." - 1 Corinthians 15: 13-17
Now, surely you have a mind gifted to you know a plenty of good knowledge; but knowing that even teachers today cannot fathom the irrefutable testimony of such individuals such as Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Paul, and many others who were not foolish people, but very intelligent persons. Do you think it wise to gain nothing for a lie? If these people who were beaten with whips and stones, gnashed at and held in filthy prisons, and were ultimately killed; what was their endgame to teach about someone who did not live and die and resurrect? Unless... He of course did such things? And mind you, it wasn't just a handful of people who lived for Christ and died for Christ, but many people did so! So I ask the question, is it so much that the evidence of Christ turns me away? Or is that I want to live my life my way just the way Satan teaches? That's what this "Satanic Club" teaches, is self-realization, just like Hinduism. It doesn't have to be about Satan, as long as the club is not teaching about Jesus Christ, that's the goal for that slimy dirt thing. Anyway, I hope you can see the truth someday and I pray for anyone who reads to come to Christ before you meet Him not knowing Him. God bless and be safe...
You said: It would be good if it taught the fallacies and errors of Satanic "thinking" and wasn't unfairly just a proselytizing and recruiting club for Satanism, which isn't allowed for Christianity in the public schools. Yes, better no religious clubs in public schools than allowing wrong "thinking" religious clubs in them, too, and let right religion be taught at home, instead of in schools, where to let everyone have their say, wrong "thinking" would have to be taught. I agree to a point. The school has no choice based on the court order. They are getting the unintended consequences of their suit. NO religious activities should be in public schools. And the concept of "the right religion" is offensive. It's yours and not other one counts? I know "christians who do not think Catholics are christians and would restrict them being on campuses. Religion continues to be contemptuous.
Then, those "Christians who do not think Catholics are Christians" are the ones who aren't actually Christians, since they are being judgmental, and actual religion isn't contemptuous, but only false religion is contemptuous. Problem solved!! It is a bother answering all the same questions and points over and over again!!
Satanism isn't a religion its an anti religion, its typical that people think children should learn about vile people like Aleister cowley who were anti human abusers, 8 would have no problem with Luciferianism but most people are too uneducated to know the difference
Satanism isn't a religion its an anti religion, its typical that people think children should learn about vile people like Aleister cowley who were anti human abusers, 8 would have no problem with Luciferianism but most people are too uneducated to know the difference
Satanism isn't a religion its an anti religion, its typical that people think children should learn about vile people like Aleister cowley who were anti human abusers, 8 would have no problem with Luciferianism but most people are too uneducated to know the difference
The Satan Club sounds like a Great Idea. I hope to see more of them popping up...Because, hey whats in a name right? People call themselves christians all the time and dont live up to any moral expectations.
The Satan Club sounds like the perfect quintessential approach to evangelico hypocrisy, which believes that eggs have equal rights, but gay couples do not...Which believes that making rules for owning other people as property (in the bible) is a descent and moral thing that god's bible condoned..., however, christians want to run around and make excuses for its inclusion... as if it does not sya exactely what it says...
It is about time to show the level of blantant hypocrisy and double standards which somehow favors christianity above all else...So, I hope many young kids will take part in what the Satan Club has to offer...
If anyone opposes this view, please explain why "christian organizations" should be considered good as a default position, before they have done or shown anything. Some of these "christian" organizations are against vaccines, support Trump, against diversity, against healthcare choices for women, thinks they have the final say on marriage, and openly supports rebelious behavior against democracy, not to mention covering up sex crimes...
So, I think if the Satan Club operates in accordance with its stated mandate for science, critical thinking, and education then that is a good thing, irrespective of the name...
Take care all,
I am a Christian minister, and I don’t believe in any of those issues you mention. No the satan club should not meet in a public/government school. Neither should Christian, Moslem, Hindu, Buda groups or any such religious organization. The 1st Amendment does not require it, but it does deny government support for a religion.
If they pay rent, it doesn’t change; it is still a public building. Maybe they should try to rent the 7th US Circuit Court of Appeals court room, when it is not in use. Hey Supreme Court what do you think?
Tell that to your fellow christians who have long since been doing it anyway, Waldron.
"The Satan Club sounds like a Great Idea. I hope to see more of them popping up... Because, hey what's in a name right?". Oh, yeah, right, what difference does it make what any club or group calls itself in school and why should there be any restrictions at all on what clubs or groups can be in our schools instructing our children in whatever they want?!! Why not have Hell's Angels youth clubs, to "open children's minds about outlaw motorcycle gangs, too", and NAMBLA youth clubs to "open children's minds about that perversion, too", and Mafia Appreciation and Fan clubs, Serial Killer clubs, Drag Queen and Transgender clubs, and everything else that anyone wants to expose children to in our schools, since they aren't for education anymore, but only for social experimentation!! Because all of this is what we are actually talking about with Satanism, before it has been cleaned up, watered down, public relationed, and rationalized for the public's acceptance of it. Satanism actually means following the example and "thinking" of Satan, as far as any human beings can do so--- not a polite version of Satan, but Satan as he actually is, which means all of this evil and murdering in the world!! Nobody thinks that a Jew loving "Nazi" is really a Nazi or black people loving "Klansman" is really a Klansman or person who doesn't know how to do plumbing is really a plumber or person who doesn't know how to do electrical work is really an electrician, and so on for every other profession or philosophy exponent, but all that anyone has to do is say "I'm a Christian", no matter how little they practice what Christ told his followers to do, and haters of Christianity and much of the general public swallow hook, line, and sinker that he is a "Christian" (yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, DUHHH!) because that is what they want to believe and fits their prejudice and propaganda against Christians!! This is the minimalist or just non-existent level of "intelligence" that we are dealing with in such people!!! We were all eggs at one stage of our development, and are only here now because those eggs were allowed to develop, but pro-choicers don't believe that other eggs should be given the same consideration and right to be born and live than was given to them!!! That is the double standard and hypocrisy that these people operate on!!! Everyone, who isn't insane, actually believes in the Golden Rule, since they don't want other people mugging them, assaulting them, attempting to or actually killing them, or doing anything else that they wouldn't want done to themselves. That is belief in the Golden Rule!! But what right do they have to expect or ask that people not do wrong things to them, while continuing to advocate or actually practice wrongdoing against the unborn and other people?!! That is hypocrisy!!! Some "Christians" doing wrong things can't reasonably be blamed on all Christians or Christianity, since that is clearly bigotry!!! This is all of my casting pearls before swine now, since they aren't open to receiving and accepting the truth, and will continue to "think" of themselves as "right" and everyone else who disagrees with them as "wrong", and will do so until their minds and hearts are open to receiving and accepting the truth!!!
Amen to you Minister Wilson!
It's an all or nothing proposition. Either any/all religions, or no religions. Pick one, it's not hard.
I LOVE THIS! ❤️
The Satan Club offers "that students would learn scientific reasoning and rationality, as well as empathy and creative expression." Schools are a dismal failure in these aspects, so somebody has to do it after school.
"Rev." Nolan and Shango MasterExorcist, D.D., Christian Youth Groups are allowed throughout the United States on school campuses because they are teaching love and helping them toward salvation and getting closer to Christ, whereas Satanist clubs sneak in acceptance of Satan and Satanism under the disguise of "introducing 'scientific reasoning, rationality, empathy, and creative expression'", in order for Satan to get his foot in the door and further wedge it open and work his way in!! Every con man who is trying to get people to go for what they really don't want, if they have any sense at all, will first offer them what they do want to soften them up and lead them toward what he really has in mind for them, as drug dealers offer customers marijuana first in order to lead them toward bigger highs from Cocaine, crack cocaine, and heroin to hook them and for his bigger profits. Satan is the same! These Satan Clubs are just Trojan Horses to get them accepted by people, while the evil forces are waiting inside them and will come out, little by little, to attack people and lead them further and further astray!! Those who are warning people against these Satan Clubs as an enticement and prelude to further evils are dismissed as "religious fanatics" and "against progress, enlightenment, and education", the same as Cassandra, who warned the Trojan people against accepting the Trojan Horse into their city by saying "Beware of Greeks when they come bearing gifts", was ignored and dismissed, and Troy was destroyed!! Satan can appear as an angel of light because he wouldn't deceive as many people if he always appeared only as Satan to them!! If these aspects of education aren't being taught well enough in schools, teach them well enough in some other way that doesn't make Satan acceptable to them and sneak in all the rest of what he has in mind for them under that disguise and subterfuge!!! If you are really a Master Exorcist, why aren't you trying to exorcize this devil from your midst, instead of going along with it?!! That isn't really very masterful of you at all!! If you are a Doctor of Divinity, why are you going along with such an evil and anti-divine thing as Satan Clubs?!! That doesn't match your title!!!
There's nothing actually "satanic" about that organization. The only folks getting their knickers in a twist are those with a soupçon of critical thinking skills and a surfeit of gullibility.
You are absolutely correct. Satanism, through TST, is actually a direct mockery of the Christian church. Daily we see the government rally together to take away peoples rights, because of their own Christian faith. Many satanic gatherings are fundraisers for their communities, and many get togethers where you get to hang out with a bunch of friends who like to talk about family and current events. Rarely do you see Satanists out and about, trying to convert others to Satanism
I bet the members attend black masses, but they are held off-campus, maybe even online. That would especially be beneficial for the those children who have Christian parents.
If there is "nothing actually 'satanic' about that organization", they need to stop calling themselves a "Satan Club" and "something that they aren't" and call themselves just a name more appropriate to teaching science and critical thinking. Satan wants to get people to think of evil and himself as "harmless" and even just "educational and beneficial to society", so that they can be led, step by step, gradually, into deeper and more evil! So, he tells them "this is just for teaching science and critical thinking, which nobody should be objecting to, and just nevermind the name of 'Satan Club'" and keeps pushing the envelope, as he knows even better how to do than we do, and leads people around by their noses down the garden path to wherever he wants to lead them, and make all those who are warning against and condemning Satan Clubs in public schools look like "religious fanatics" and "totally unreasonable people who are just trying to fight against progress and education and keep you in ignorance"! Satan can appear as an angel of light because he couldn't deceive and mislead as many people if he always appeared to them, obviously, as Satan! Of course, Satan presents his deception and poison to people as something other than what they actually are, in order to get them to accept it. If you throw a frog into a pot of boiling water, it will immediately hop right back out again, but if you put it into a pot of cold water, and gradually heat it up, the frog will stay in the pot and boil to death!! No human being who wants to poison another person just comes right out and tells them that they want them to swallow arsenic or cyanide, but will disguise the bottle with the label "soda" or "fruit juice" or say that the pill is "just aspirin" or some other harmless pill. What even people can figure out to kill others or boil frogs, Satan can certainly figure out even more because he has been at this business of deceiving and misleading people for thousands or millions of years and has learned all the tricks, and has become very good at it!! We can't, in our own intelligence or wisdom, fight against someone far wiser than we are, but need the help of our God and the Holy Spirit to keep us safe from the Devil's wiles and tricks. As C.S. Lewis wrote in The Screwtape Letters: "Indeed, the safest road to Hell is the gradual one, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts"!!
Christian Youth Groups are allowed throughout the United States on school campuses, so why not Satanist clubs? I missed something.
What I see expressed here is what is referred to as "Non Theistic Satanism" - which does not involve worship or even acknowledge the existence of Satan in reality, but uses the image of Satan as a metaphor for enlightened, rational humanism. Thomas Jefferson saw Jesus as a man who was a moral exemplar worthy of emulation, not as an object of worship. Non-Theistic Satanists look at themselves as rejecting the dogma of coercive theology, and choose to act as thinking, rational individuals, and independent moral agents. Yes, it does fly in the face of Christianity's message of Salvation through Acceptance of Christ because all are Guilty of Original Sin Through Adam. These "Satanists" are people who are simply tired of being told how to think, who to follow, and what to believe. They are "Satanists" in name only - to indicate that they oppose the dogma of Christianity. Satan is actual Hebrew for "Adversary". He's the OT contrarian - while all the Angels were essentially sycophants to the Divine, Satan was the only contrarian - the only one who thought for himself. Since God created a contrarian as his first Archangel, that implies that He knew that he was imperfect, and needed a critic to give him another perspective. This does, however, poke a gaping hole in the notion of the omniscient diety line of thought.
In unison, let's all shout "Hail Satan"!!!
And, in unison, all Jews should shout "Heil Hitler!" and all Ukrainians should shout "Hail Putin!", and all people everywhere victimized and opposed by anyone should salute that person and sing his praises, since a "good idea" needs to be applied across the board to everyone!! Take care and stay well and get better, Mr. Elfstrom.
Excellent speech and all, yet is anything you just said true, and if so, how do you know this? If you just feel it in your heart and soul, please tell us why that should matter to other people about what you feel or believe...?
See, when you start using biblical quotes, I do not understand how most of us here are supposed to feel about the seriousness of your claims, primarily when they are not supported by facts...or evidence other than your holy book.
I listened to this "dissonance laced rationale" before from other Christians on the site; they often times do this; if something terrible or egregious happens, then those weren’t really “true Christians”...
This appears like a no “true Scotsman’s fallacy.”
"No true Scotsman, or appeal to "purity", is an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect their universal generalization from a falsifying counterexample by excluding the counterexample improperly"
So, I dont think people, "...are so ill pressed against Jesus.” as you put it.
I think that whenever a christian does or says something wrong, people or Christians like yourself simply claim that that person was not a true Christian...Yet, you are missing the point. The point here is that despite the person’s claim of being a Christian, their proclaimed belief in a Jesus/or God did not stop that person from doing wrong or hurting others.
For example, if a priest molestes or rapes someone, your response might be that he was not a true Christian. However, that man has potentially taken vows, preached sermons for years, most likely helped other people, and probably believed he did all that in God’s name.
So, if he was not a "true Christian", then who is? Are you? How can you prove that claim?...
See, I would suspect that this person being of the faith and such strongly held beliefs would help him avoid those types of minor human issues. But, alas, he is only human, just like the rest of us.
In your post, you wrote;
“Are you really going to turn down the possibility of eternal life just because of the history of the church in which man devised the Crusades, Salem witch trials, and so on... or your will to neglect the faith? God commanded no such things! Don’t blame God for man’s free decision to live like a hypocrite and or devise wicked schemes.”
My question for you is, what would it take for you to change your mind about what you believe to be true...? Don’t you care if your beliefs are true because just having faith does not make something true?
If actions and behaviors speak louder than words, then why do you keep making excuses or touting fallacious reasoning after the fact. I think you probably do this to protect your own beliefs because those beliefs are not based on evidence or prove just your feelings.
So, ya, no one can blame God, just like no one can blame the tooth fairy...
And, your sermon also suggests that "you also" believe that you are above all this trivial human stuff because you can just “feel the truth”, so are you above other people and utterly incapable of causing harm...too? Could you be wrong about what you claim to be real?
Just remember, and take comfort in the fact that if you “fall” or do something wrong, well, you know the Christian’s playbook, they will just claim that “you weren’t really a true Christian “...too... So, would that be an accurate depiction of you now? Then, why should I or anyone else believe you?
I don’t very much care for your proselytizing because it infers that you think you are above other people and incapable of making some severe mistakes...in your reasoning and rationale, and behavior, also.
So, you could help me get past all that if you could just show any proof or evidence outside of your holy book that Christ is coming to cleanse the world by burning it all down, as you put it...
Keep in mind, that the fire and brimstone thing assumes that everyone actually cares and believes what your saying is factual, not just some mindless resuscitation from a 2,000year-old book...
So, please enlighten me, what makes you the authority on who is an actual Christian and who is not? Before anything goes wrong or you read something, which always seems to be conveniently well after the fact, of course...
Are you against critical thinking and science, as the article claims the Satan Club is about, or is that the devil’s work?
So based on what I have read, I fully support Satan’s Club because they sound like they are doing essential work for the childrens' future that so many christian organizations have just tended to leave out for the sake of "faith".
Lastly, you don’t seem to believe any person claiming to be Christian really is one, especially if or when they do something wrong, so why would you then place any stock in what this group is calling itself?
Hey there, Wilson! I appreciate the response to what I wrote and you brought forth some great points and I will attempt to reason with you based on what we've shared with one another! Firstly, I claim no authority over anyone and I don't think I made the notion that I did; and if so, forgive me. If what I said about what history teaches us about those who claim to believe in Jesus Christ, but yet did horrible things; my stance is that they did not know Christ according to scripture as it is written, "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." - 1 John 4:8 Yes, even I am guilty of a past of hurting people, but that was before I came to Jesus; now I practice and live a life according to His commandments to, "Love one another", to the best of my human ability as well as surrending myself for Him to work on what's broken, spiritually. When people claim to be believers in Christ, that doesn't necessarily mean that they do believe, "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me." - Matthew 15:8 and "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matthew 7:21-23 I can't possibly assume that everyone who does wicked things automatically mean they are damned, but, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." - 1 John 1:9
And there is no way for me to prove to you what fruits that I labor, so I don't ask anyone to believe in me as I will disappoint you as I am ultimately just human as you are, but my hope is to be made perfect through Jesus Christ, "But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." - 1 John 2:5
Now, on the matter of denominations as well as different sects of various beliefs on Biblical Scripture has certainly caused division in the church itself, I will namely speak about the Catholic Church as they proclaim a belief in not just Jesus exclusively, but also Mary and purgatory. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." - Galatians 1:8 "And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt... He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done." - Matthew 26:39, 42 Here in this passage you will find that there is no other way than for Jesus Christ to be made sin for us that we may have a way to the father through Him, “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” - John 14:6 I provide this as an example to show that that people will believe in a Jesus Christ that is not according to scripture, but to man. "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many... Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." - Matthew 24:11, 23-24 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." - 1 John 4:1 and “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them." - Matthew 7:15-20 I'm sure you're bored of these scripture pieces, but understand that these scriptures are what tells the tale of a false Christian and a true one. And if by your understanding, which surely you can agree with the fact of much of what's known specifically about the Catholic Church is very disturbing, you can now see by these words that testify of them who work evil rather than good.
So! You asked a question, "What would it take for you to change your mind about what you believe to be true...?" Well, to simply answer that is if you can prove to me what happens after death, then I will believe otherwise. If you can tell me what the meaning of life is or why we exist or where we are going, then I can consider otherwise... but, I value life and I know you do too; if there is the possibility of eternal life and especially in a world where there is no more pain or suffering or death, would you not consider that either? Now, you also mentioned that I just "feel the truth", in which I reply that I don't feel, but know; feeling is a deceiver made in the flesh, and to know truth is not to urge your feeling, but to believe on an accordance of proof. "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14
Alright... maybe I'm wrong that all of this about a resurrection and eternal paradise is man's imagination, but now, what if you're wrong? If I'm wrong, I live a life of delusion that will ultimately be no different than yours, because if death is the end; then what does my life matter? On the other hand, if you're wrong; you will have to face a certain consequence of that choice to live apart from Jesus Christ in a not so pleasant place. I'm not a gambling man and especially when it comes to life or death and I pray that you're not either. You asked if I was against critical thinking or science and absolutely, I am not! With the combination of the two, we as people have developed many great achievements through science and other means alike, but that doesn't mean that all science is good; there is bad science also and it comes down to theory. The Big Bang theory suggests that matter and energy combined caused a great explosion and all things as we know it exist... so, my question then is; where did the matter and energy come from? Oh, it's only theoretical on a basis of little fact and there are more than enough resources to find that there is very little evidence to support that theory, and the same applies to evolution. Because if evolution is a process, then why are we determined to sustain endangered species? Now as to proof, I hope with a good thinking person such as yourself would acknowledge that history is a good form of knowledge and as such I can in no way prove to you the Armageddon of this world without scripture, just as you can't prove that George Washington was president without an eyewitness account through documentation. So with that in mind, I'm sure you're familiar with these such as Plato, who's writings date around 427-347 B.C. with an earliest copy in about A.D. 900 and approximate time span between original & copy of 1200 yrs with a number 7 copies is widely known to have existed, yes? What about Caesar; with writings around 100-44 B.C. and 10 copies or Homer (Illiad) at 900 B.C. and 643 copies of about 95% accuracy? All these things are true, yes? Well, what about the New Testament? The New Testament is found written thanks to the Dead Sea Scrolls at about the 1st Cent. A.D. (A.D. 50-100) and earliest copy about the 2nd Cent. A.D. (c. A.D. 130 f.) see John Rylands Papyrus with less than 100 years of original and copy and 5,856 copies in Greek at an astounding 99.5% accuracy of what we have in our Bibles today! There is more than 23,000 manuscripts proving The New Testament to be more reliable than any other documented subject and person in history; if you ignore that, then it's not evidence your lacking for faith. Thomas, who refused to believe in Jesus Christ unless he saw His wounds would turn away from Christ, but then Jesus appeared before him, "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." - John 20:28-29
Anywho, I wrote enough for now and I hope I answered some of your questions as well as anyone else here to hear! I only hope you'll consider the truth and disembark from the path of deceit. I pray for your spirit and God open your heart to Him and I pray for your safety in a world full of violence... Peace.
To answer your question, "What would it take for you to change your mind about what you believe to be true...?", well, I can simply answer that if you could tell me what happens after death? Or what the meaning of life is or where we came from and where are we going? Then, I might consider otherwise... but, I value life and I know you do too and if there is a possibility of eternal life in a paradise away from disease, pain, and death; would you not consider that also? So, if your belief is in the theory of the Big Bang or evolution, then I very well can ask you the same question of your evidence that such is viable. The Big Bang suggests that matter and energy combined caused an explosion of all that exists today, my question is, where did the matter and energy come from? Evolution is rather silly to think about, because if it's an acceptable process of life; why then are we keen to preserve endangered species? Well, I hope you can agree that history is a viable source for knowledge, I can't prove to you the apocalypse outside of scripture (I would refer you to Matthew 24) just as you can't prove to me that the holocaust happened without eyewitness documentation. I would imagine you know that Plato, Caesar (Copies 10/100-44 B.C.) Tacitus (Copies 20/circa A.D. 100), Aristotle (Copies 49/384-322 B.C.) and others existed based on historical documentation. Take Homer (Illiad) for example: written around 900 B.C. and an earliest copy at 400 B.C. with 643 copies total at 95% accuracy. What about The New Testament? We have it written 1st Cent. A.D. (A.D. 50-100) and early copies 2nd Cent. A.D. 9 (Dead Sea Scrolls/Rylands Library) (c. A.D. 130 f.) with an approximate time span between original & copy of less than 100 years and over 5,600 copies in Greek at an astounding 99.5% accuracy to what we have in the Bible today! So, I would say the evidence of authenticity is clear here; the Bible does not speak of Midgard or The City of Atlantis, but rather uses real locations such as Jerusalem, Rome, and so on; the Bible does not speak about Zeus or Thor where there is not a single eyewitness account for these fantastical beings, but it does speak about Caesar, Nebuchadnezzar, and so on where we have archeological sites and factual documentation on. the Bible is not written like "Once upon a time...", but is written with historical facts and accounts of real people and locations. Do you really think people would put their lives at stake for a lie to gain nothing in return, but to return the love of God to people who choose to live against Him? What is their profit? They asked for nothing, but to spread the message of hope in a world that is fairly hopeless and dying. I pray that you open your heart to Jesus Christ and turn away from the lusts of this world and share the mercy and love that God asks of us to give in His name; I pray for your peace and your spirit to be ready, be safe.
Teaching kids science? That is crazy. I hope this comes to my kid's school.
Just my opinion, but based on the past actions of Satanic groups, the effort to have these classes is not an effort to proselytize the Satanic concepts but cause American christians (lower case intentional and deserved) to freak out, thus illustrating their hypocritical natures.
My opinion? All religion is delusional, it’s just a matter of degree.
That's probably the satanic temple group. Who I am aware of and reading there 10 tenants there is nothing that should alarm anyone. Fair is fair. Im pretty sure there not to many groups having orgys, sacrificing virgins Especially in the 5th grade. Sometimes I wonder is being a good christian mean allowing any one to harm you with turning the cheek so wise. Or is using logic and sometimes having to bust a few heads the right path. Christianity has more that is share of blood on its hands as well as other things and in one of the comments about the pope and hitler. TRUE. So ??? Try to be good to each other help if you can. And the christians in Illinois be more christian and try to understand what Satanism believe in I dought its what Hollywood has put on are minds. Those must be the AK 47 Christians. There more scary than the Hollywood satanist " IMAGINE If there were no Religion" Lot less death and hatred.
You didn't read the article did you?
No. It ridiculous actually read a lot of comments and found it enlightning that so many feel it not threatening there's nothing wrong with the satanic temple beliefs I was a member.. But I find the though of using satan to represent this was like a commercial appeal thing.
I'm a card-carrying member of the Satanic Temple, the group that sponsors the After School Satan Club. There is no Satan, no Lucifer, no Hell of any kind. We're atheists. We believe in science, equality and reason. If people (read: evangelicals) are going to schools trying to shove Jesus smd the accompanying racism and male supremacy down kids' throats we'll be there to stop them.
Wait til Partin finds out about the Religious Abortion Ritual...
Sarah, if you believe in proof for your beliefs as an atheist before you will accept them, where is your evidence that there is no Satan, no Lucifer, no Hell of any kind, instead of just your tossing definitive statements out that they don't exist without evidence to back them up and demanding proof from Christians and theists for our beliefs, while providing none for yours?! Out of body experiences have testified to the existence of Hell, and these visions aren't imaginary because those having them reported activities and words of doctors and nurses in other parts of hospitals that they had no way of knowing, which couldn't have been the result of imagination. If they were correct in those reports, it is inconsistent and contradictory to say that they were wrong about the visions of Hell and the Devil. Voice recordings have had people screaming later, as though in torment, where no voices had been heard at the time of recording. Paranormal phenomena around the world attest to the existence of spirits and so this arent cases of isolated instances. Where is your evidence that all of that is wrong, if you aren't just discounting all of it without even considering it, which is very unscientific?! Considering all of this evidence would be scientific and reasonable, if that is what you claim that you are, but dismissing it without even considering it is very unscientific and unreasonable. Any racism or male supremacy that Evangelicals have tried to make "synonymous with Christianity" was the result of their twisting Christianity to suit themselves and make it mean whatever they wanted it to mean and turn Jesus into their spokesman and mouthpiece, but that isn't true Christianity, which is loving your neighbor as yourself and doing unto others as you would have others do unto you and loving God!! Go ahead and stop false "Christians", but they don't represent true Christianity!! You, on the other hand, can call anything that you want "religious" or a "ritual", for abortion or anything else, but that doesn't actually make it so, and you are deceiving yourselves as much as the Evangelicals are!!
Your proof of the existence of paranormal isn’t exactly scientifically accurate. People who experience deep psychological psychosis will say damn near anything, sound like theyre possessed by demons, but that doesn’t means it’s true. Most of the time I’d say it’s just a fit of psychosis and they need psychological help and a healthy dose of medicine. Not an exorcist. That being said, I do believe in spirits, but that doesn’t mean they’re all evil. I do believe in gods. Living metaphors, whatever you wanna call them. Good and evil are a matter of perspective. Christianity has spent the last 2000 years demonizing what they refuse to understand for the sake of political domination over cultural narratives. The creation of hell by the Catholic Church is one of them. The perversion of Samael, into Satan is another. The venom of god is not against god, but is a representative of god. Samael may condone sin, but that’s just so he can punish it. He’s not evil, just doing his job. All things have an end, and he just hastens it, considering he’s the angel of death. You trying to pull the “no true Scotsman approach” to Christians doing terrible things doesn’t undo what they’ve done in the name of Christ. Which is another perversion. There is no Jesus Christ. But I do think there was a Yeshua who was a kick *** political is upstart who was sick of the Pharisees and of Rome. Rome would later take the messenger and pervert the message by saying he was god in the flesh. The goddess is wisdom, and she sees through your veiled words. Have a nice day.
It isn't the "no true Scotsman" fallacy to say that no people calling themselves "plumbers, electricians, carpenters, roofers, house builders or members of any other profession" are actually members of those professions, if they don't know how to do those jobs or do them correctly, and it also, consistently, isn't the "no true Scotsman" fallacy to say that people merely calling themselves "Christians" are actually Christians, if they aren't following Jesus' teachings and doing that "job" as it is supposed to be done!! That is just common sense and logic!! No "Nazis" who love Jews and support Jewish causes and denounce anti-Semitism are actually Nazis, no atheists who go to church and pray the Rosary and other Christian prayers and love Jesus and testifying to His work in their lives and preaching the Gospels are actually atheists, and no "Christians" who don't love God and their neighbors as themselves and so don't torture, kill, and persecute them are actually Christians, no matter how much they say that they are. Otherwise, you are operating on a double standard: one for yourselves of having to live up to your principles in order for you to be what you claim to be, while saying that Christians don't have to live up to Christ's teachings and follow His example in order to be Christians, which is hypocritical and ridiculous for you to do!! "By this will all men know that you are my disciples: if you have love for one another" is Christ's standard for anyone's actually being a Christian. Not just their saying that they are!! As for demonic possession just being "mental disturbance", again, you must think that you know better about it than those who have dealt with it. There is nobody so crazy that their insanity makes them able to speak in languages that they have never known or studied, tell exorcists about their past lives or about their future lives or what they are thinking, levitate above beds, cause welts or scars to appear on their own or others' bodies, make objects fly around the room or do the other things that have been recorded in cases of demonic possession. You want to dismiss all cases of demonic possession as "mental disturbance" because that "confirms" your narrow-minded view of life and "reality". Read Hostage to the Devil by Malachi Martin and other reliable accounts of demonic possession and educate yourself on the subject before talking about things that you don't know anything about!! Your statement that "there is no Jesus Christ", as usual is just tossed out without your offering any evidence for it, as was your statement that "Rome perverted the message by saying that he was God in the flesh". Where is your proof of that, please? God is wisdom and sees through all your veiled words. Have a better day by turning to Him!!
That’s a False equivalency. It’s called a history book, Partin. Rome co-opted many faiths and gods for its own ends. Isis, Mithras, and many other gods were worshipped in Rome before Christianity hit the city. Hitler tried to create his own kind of Christianity during his time. It didn’t stick well. The Roman Catholics did help many Nazis escape though, which I find interesting. You claim that Catholics aren’t true Christians, but utilize their ideals. How unchristian of you. Lol there was no Jesus Christ. His name was Yeshua. He was a Jew with a message, and being deified wasn’t part of it. Wanna know who deified people for political gain? Rome. They did it to Julius Caesar after his conquest of Pompeii (person not the city) during their civil war. It was part of his Triumph. Open up a damn history book sometime. I fact open up several. But you got to set aside your “gung-ho Christian first” bias. May the goddess shed light on your biases, and you learn the wisdom of the ages to shed your bigotries and foibles. As always, goddess bless you. ♥️☮️♥️☮️
It's pointless replying to any more posts of someone, such as yourself, to whom words don't mean what they actually mean, but only what you want them to mean and a "Christian" is just anyone who calls himself a "Christian", instead of only someone who follows the teachings of Christ, and so on for all other words' meaning whatever you want them to mean because there is no basis for communication between us on those terms. I won't waste any more of my time on someone with that distorted understanding and convoluted "thinking". So, go on in your bizarre little world, but do it to yourself and don't bother me anymore with it!!! Clearly, Caesar didn't conquer Christ or we would still have the Roman Empire today!! You read some history books and try to understand them, as best you can, but whatever you do, do it by yourself or with other confused people, since I won't reply any longer to your insane posts!!! Don't waste your time or mine!!!
That’s because all you’re trying to do is insult my intelligence with dogma and silly copy pasta. Empires since the fall of Rome have been influenced by Caesar’s empire. The last Caesar was technically a Russian by the name Romanov, Czar Is a rough translation of Caesar. All you do is make excuses whist for bad people whilst unwittingly follow in their insanity. You don’t even understand the understand the historical contexts of how “Christian” came about. If you did you’d probably not Bible thump so hard, and have a better life. My bizarre little world is the same world you occupy, yet it’s always men like you who try to push those of us off of it just because we have s different view point. You’re greedy and self righteous. A pity. You harass others here and when you receive the same medicine you can’t handle it. When your lunacy is matched you don’t like the reflection. Lol typical. Goddess Bless you. ♥️☮️♥️☮️
I am a Roman Catholic, and I dislike the fact that Satan is brought anywhere. That being said, I am also a huge advocate of free speech. Weather I like it or not doesn't matter. I think it's only fair that they have the right to express their belief, and allow others to do the same. An educated mind is a powerful mind. Parents, help your children make the best choices for their future. I'm not raising their kids, so I stay out of that slippery slope. There are many ways to show disapproval, and if thats what you feel, do so.
It's no different from how Christians brainwash their kids into religion. Do you really think 5-10 year-olds can understand and rationalize what they are being taught? Most adults including pastors don't understand Christian religion.
There really isn't any "Satan" involved with this organization, not in the literal sense. Satan is no more (nor less) real than Santa, the folks behind these clubs understand that.
What follows, is arguably, one of the most truthful observation any ULC Bishop ever posted on this site; and you can bet your mortgage on it.
Here goes: “The only difference between the Christian Satan, and the Christian God, is in who’s handling their public relations.”
And, what gives MAGA’ers the mental laxity, to be able to blindly (aka, religiously) believe a demagogic misogynistic, authoritarian like DJT, is a result of them having been successfully brainwashed by whatever tribal nonsense they were exposed to, as soon as they were old enough to learn how to talk.
I wish peace for your soul, joy for your heart, and clarity of mind.
Susan, wishing never accomplishes anything.
And you seriously decided to try to toss politics into this discussion?!? I mean, really? Sad.
Good for the kids. First of all, if one reads the article, then they know that the club is a non-religious, free-thinking, and critical thinking space for kids. Besides, Satanism, as a religion, is not about Satan. Period. Ask any Satanist. The fact that the parents got their knickers in a twist is typical of the knee-jerk reaction commonly seen in evangelicals. This makes me happy.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. For years catholics and christians have been shrieking and demanding religion be "brought back into the schools" and that they be allowed to force kids to worship THEIR version of "god". They've been drumbeating about "religious freedom" and the "right to express themselves", etc.
Well, they're getting exactly what they have been begging for. ALL religious views are being allowed with absolutely no religious group, or non-religious group, being excluded.
EXCEPT that's NOT what they wanted. They wanted THEIR religion forced down people's throats and, at the same time, they wanted all OTHER views to be fiercely blocked and forbidden. Heh, but things don't work that way, especially here in the USA.
They demanded "religious freedom" they GOT religious freedom. And now they're throwing temper tantrums because.... what? Because someone's offering something more fun that's more tongue-in-cheek and offers more than just being beaten over the head with a bible for hours on end?
They can't have it their way or the highway, and they're just going to have to either accept that, or walk away. And no, it's not "child sacrifices" and "kneeling to worship the genitals of a goat", or any such nonsense. Nor is it screaming defiance of churches, shrieking out how "god is evil" or any of the cultish nonsense people see in T.V.'s and movies. I looked into this and the "Church of Satan" group actually don't worship any god or demon or anything. The name is a tongue-in-cheek thing to deliberately get under the skin of religious zealots who are trying to force this secular nation to become a religious one. They've seen the harm caused when a nation turns religious, just look at the middle east. And no, being Muslim is NOT evil or bad either, before someone bleats about that on my posting here. What's harmful is forcing zealous religious views down people's throats and harming, even killing, them in the name of religion.
This is telling kids they can think for themselves and discover the world for themselves, instead of following in the footsteps of others. That they don't have to worship anyone, or anything, they don't want to worship. But instead, to make their own decisions.
So LET the religious individuals have their church clubs, it's a free country after all. But this is ENTIRELY fair and goes within the letter of the 1st amendment - Freedom OF religion and, subsequently, freedom FROM religion.
In America we have the Freedom of Religion, this means all religions. As a non denominational minister I read the tenants of many religions and I’ve perused the tenants of The Satanic Church, they don’t seem to pose a physical threat to anyone.
I would 100% join the After School Satan Club, I wonder what I can do to help their cause.
Little Willie's son still foolishly "thinks'" that anyone is going to listen to him and do anything that he says to do because that is all that can be expected of something like that!! Good back to sleep, little Willie's son!!
I'd trust a self-proclaimed 'Satanist' long before I'd trust a Christian Nationalist/Dominionist/Evangelical Fascist. I admire their Seven Tenets"
I One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason. II The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions. III One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone. IV The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own. V Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs. VI People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused. VII Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
If folks don't like them using the name 'Satanist' - tough. I don't like the Religious Reich's appropriation of the word 'Christian'.
I honestly have no problem with it. Back when I was in school, we had a Christian club. If someone doesn't want to join the club, they don't have to.
Wow this is crazzy...
And you don't think the Christian religion is just as crazy?
“Satan Club does not attempt to convert children to any religious ideology” - That's exactly what Satan WOULD say...
You have no idea what you're talking about. Satanists of any kind never try to convert anyone or force their beliefs down people's throats. And they don't abuse children with threats of Hell or burning for eternity like all abrahamic religions do
Satanists of every kind try to convert others or force their beliefs down people's throats through peer pressure and herd thinking, and they abuse children and adults by leading them down to Hell and burning and separation from God for all eternity, along with themselves, since misery loves company, like all anti-God and ungodly religions and philosophies do.
You're confusing us with abrahamic religions. We don't convert anyone or abuse people especially kids. You're just so brainwashed by the hype, paranoia, and propaganda that those religions have spread throughout the years that you can't think for yourself.
You can't honestly or intelligently deny that there is peer pressure and herd thinking among Satanists of your and every other kind and worldly people, generally, because it is well known!! Many people moo and amble along with the worldly herd just in order to be accepted by them and not be different or "weird": drink alcohol because "everyone else is doing it", indulge in illegal drugs or sex because "everyone else is doing it", etc. and conform to the world. That isn't being done only in the Abrahamic religions, who are conforming about different things (going through the motions of church because that is what they are used to doing), instead of going to church out of love for Jesus. There is a worldly herd and a religious herd. Your being brainwashed by worldliness and the hype, paranoia, and propaganda in all of that into not believing that there is a Hell awaiting those who reject God and disobey Him, and not thinking for yourself about that, doesn't mean that there isn't a Hell and consequences for your rejection of and disobedience to God because reality isn't affected at all by anyone's disbelief in it.
I can and absolutely deny all you said. I've never been influenced by peer pressure or anything else to believe the way I do. I chose it by nothing but pure free will. I'm not brainwashed in any way and I know for a fact that there is no such location as hell. It was made up to intimidate and terrorize people so the abrahamic religions can keep people in control. There isn't even a spirit, entity, or so called demon legitimately named Satan. The word is from the Arabic word Shaitan which means the adversary or the one to oppose. By definition, I am Satan to people like you because I whole heartedly deny and denounce your jew god. I could give more technical explanations but you're not even capable of understanding them.
Your not even recognizing how you have been influenced by other people and ideas and your not actually having been influenced by them are two entirely different things!! Many people's pride and self-centeredness and self-justification don't allow them to admit any debt that they owe to other people for what they are and what they have become, but their not allowing themselves to see that, anymore than your not allowing yourself to see that, doesn't make it untrue for them or you. The "self-made man or woman" doesn't exist!! Nobody has in the history of the world entirely made himself what he is. Friedrich Nietzsche didn't come out of his mother's womb being an antichrist and atheist, but grew through the influences on him into becoming what he became. Karl Marx didn't start wailing as a baby about "capitalist exploitation of the working classes and the need for revolution and the dictatorship of the proletariat", but evolved into that "thinking" and political philosophy through the influences on him. Adolf Hitler didn't emerge from his mother's womb screaming against Jews and demanding their extermination, but also became what he became through occult and right-wing influences on him. And you, no matter what you say, haven't gone through life without any influences on you to lead you into being the person that you are today, but just refuse to see and admit those influences on your life. What nobody else in history has avoided, you haven't avoided, either, realistically speaking. It is brainwashing when you wouldn't have come to your "thinking" entirely by yourself, which nobody has ever done. Pure free will would only be possible if you were the only person in the world, but, as long as there are other people in the world and you are listening to them and considering what they have to say and going along with whatever in it makes sense to you, you aren't just coming up with your "thinking" all by yourself!! That is just obvious and logical deduction. Unless you have already been in the afterlife, you can't state honestly and positively that there is no Hell or Heaven or Satan or God there because only residents of the afterlife could make those statements. You could say it all day long until you turn blue in the face and your head swells up and explodes, but that wouldn't make you know what you are talking about, and someone would just clean up the mess and you would be forgotten about!! Anyone who is an adversary to anyone else, as Jesus was to the Pharisees, is, technically speaking, a "satan", but that didn't make Him the same kind of adversary that you and others are. It doesn't matter where the name Shaitan or Satan came from because he isn't defined or limited by his name, but was around before any of those names existed. Your denouncing God is like someone's tossing mud balls at the Sun: you could never throw hard enough to make them reach the Sun, and even if you could, they would only disintegrate long before they reached the Sun, and all that will happen is that the mud will fall back on you and make you filthy!! People only hurt themselves by denouncing God. They don't hurt God.
Replace satanist with Christian and you’d be correct, Partin. Like I’ve said before, it’s not satanists who are running around converting people by force. Again look at the history of Europe the last 1500 years. Especially the last 500 years. Natives were forced to drop their religious beliefs by Christians. By the threat of mobs and law. But of course you turn a blind to that. Hypocrite.
If you have never seen or heard of or known worldly people or Satanists who went along with other people in sinning in order to be accepted by them and not be thought of as "weird", you have been walking around all your life with your eyes tightly shut, your ears stopped up, and your head up somewhere that it isn't supposed to be that kept you from knowing anything about it because the evidence, for all of us who aren't doing all of that, is clearly evident and unavoidable!! Once again, anyone who was converting anyone by force in Europe or anywhere else the last 1,500 years or especially the last 500 years among Natives wasn't truly Christian because all of that wasn't loving their neighbors as themselves or doing unto others as they would have others do unto them or how Jesus wants us to bring other people to Him, which is only through love!!!! So that I don't have to keep saying the same thing to you over and over and over again, endlessly, this time write it on a piece of paper and put it up on your refrigerator door or tattoo it on your arm or forehead, so that you can remind yourself of it and I don't have to keep telling you the same thing again!! Neither I nor anyone else is a hypocrite because we point out this obvious truth to you and the distinction between true Christians and false "Christians", which you should already know, but merely telling you the truth!! Stop being confused about that!!!
I told you to mind your manners,
"...Satanists who went along with other people in sinning in order to be accepted by them and not be thought of as "weird"...,
You seem to be confabulating the human condition with Satanism
A psychology experiment conducted by Solomon Asch regarding "conformity" found that people in general are each susceptible to just going along to get along with his well-known study about the longest line
Here is the link
Asch found that roughly a thrid of participants would provide an inncorrect answer just to conform with the group. However, the reason for this behavior orginates from two distinct standpoint, either a person wishes to be accepted, or a person wants to be right.
If the person placed more emphasis on be accepted the would conform with th group and give the wrong answer...But if that person wanted to right or correct in their thinking then they would answer correctly.
There was however, no metion of "Satan" guiding them...
Your arrgoance and ignorance wants to paint a picture of Satanist the go along with other peoples "sinning" to conform
Then you claim that any christian calling themselves a christian, is not really a christian if they act poorly...
Well, sorry John "conformity" happen to Christians too, god/ jesus has not exempted them...
So you and any other person christian, satanist or otherwise are not immune to these effects...
So, please provide proof that your a real christian and that you are personally immune to these effects _______
Because your definitely not trying to be right...or correct in your assumptions
And pro-lifers who keep trying to make abortion illegal claim they have no religious agenda either. Well, it sure ain't science that's motivating them - that's for sure.
You make Satan sound like a really cool dude, Tippenyblue. May He bestow all good blessings upon you.
This is good i think
People i have met always bashed satanism and witch craft and what ever else
When I became a Minster threw ULC I thought about Universal in the title of this church To me Universal ment that I had to be Universal in what I know. You never know what Faith you might talk to as we walk our path as a Minster. I want to help people so I went on a quest to learn all the faiths i could. I already knew that Witch-Craft was not bad as people Claimed it to be. No Harm Do as you. If you do harm. Like a spell that would cause harm to someone then you shouldn’t do it. Sure you could do a spell that causes harm but after the harm is done that the spell includes forgiveness because now you got your pay back and then the spell goes on to heal the person of what harm was caused. I will tell you do not do this because it is a harm full spell and do a spell instead of forgiveness so to make it right with you and let karma deal the dealing of what will happen. Then I learned Read the Holy Bible The Koran The Satanic Bible- wild read but Satanism is not a bad faith. Sure some groups are on the wrong path but alot of faiths are lead wrong The 66 laws of the Illuminati And im still learning
But I have to be able to talk to everyone If I want to live the path I see as a Universal Life Church Minister.
Well I think all should be taught in school. Just so the child can pick what they want to walk
Thanks Minister Gray
While I can accept that there are old gods n religion's like (Bringer of LIGHT) The concept of xstain satan is a perverted mistranslation that provides the Ultimate scapegoat... For weak gods and perverted xstains. So I find this an amusing story of Karma coming back to bite the hipoxristians for forcing their self serving duality of big daddy god n evil temptor Satin.. ;)
We ought to start a Satan club for ULC Ministers. Doesn't that sound like fun?
This seems like a good time for me to watch my Judas Priest concer DVD!
Teaching kids science? That is crazy. I hope this comes to my kid's school.
I wonder if they had just called it "The Naturalist Club" or the "Charles Darwin Club" would there have been such a stink about the whole issue?
How are there so many fundamentalists in here? Are you just here to troll? Anyway, Ave Satanas!
What's next child sacrifices
No, Karen, there will not be any "child sacrifices" because that is not what the "church of satan" does. And no, I'm not a member. I'm a witch, a practitioner of the Shamanic Tradition. The name, itself, is tongue - in - cheek meant to get under the skin of religious zealots who are trying to push their religions onto others.
It should be OK. After all Satanism is what most of the worlds leaders practise.
It is an after school program that needs parents permission, this is FREEDOM, nothing wrong here the parents that don't like it should provide an alternative on the same day and time.
We are all humans and will end up where we belong when the time is right.
You need to know bad to know good , suffer loss to appreciate what you have.
Wow liberals and conservatives where up in arms when the thought of allowing the Bible in school's. This takes the cake. My loyalty is to the Lord above and his son Jesus Christ. I will never bend to gods fallen son Lucifer.
Maybe you already have.
First - The Satanic Temple does not believe in or teach Satanism. After School Satan (ASS) has programs that teach "Benevolence & empathy - Critical thinking - Problem solving - Creative expression - Personal sovereignty"
This is not a religious organization. The name is intended to tweak the evangelical right, and it works.
Second - the question, "Should Satanism be taught to elementary students after school?" As part of an official school program? Hell no.
TST comes in when public schools open up their facilities to Christian organizations and allows those organizations to advertise to children during school hours. They only ask for Constitutionally guaranteed equal access.
To be clear, the After School Satan Club does NOT teach satanism. The Satanic Temple doesn't even believe in a literal Satan. Their tenets are based on bodily autonomy, fact-based science and respect, not mythological or supernatural nonsense.
Now if being a died hard Republican and I wanted to bring to school my elephant to worship it who in their narrow mind would say that I could not. If it is a public run school then all the other faiths have no say in whose pagan God is worship.
Ain't nobody gonna love you like the devil do Ain't nobody gonna love you like the devil do You can dunk me in the river, gonna clean my sin But you might as well dunk me in a bucket of gin Ain't nobody gonna love you like the devil do
Ain't nobody gonna love you like the devil do Ain't nobody gonna love you like the devil do I got drunk on whiskey, drunk on wine The Lord don't like it but the devil don't mind Ain't nobody gonna love you like the devil do
Ain't nobody gonna love you like the devil do Ain't nobody gonna love you like the devil do Well, I've been to church and I declare They ain't got nothin' I could learn in there Ain't nobody gonna love you like the devil do
Ain't nobody gonna love you like the devil do Ain't nobody gonna love you like the devil do Well, I ain't been saved, honey, what for? If I went to heaven I would only be bored Ain't nobody gonna love you like the devil do
Ain't nobody gonna love you like the devil do Ain't nobody gonna love you like the devil do Gonna get drunk, get my gamblin' on Gonna get real dirty, gonna get real gone Ain't nobody gonna love you like the devil do
I absolutely believe it’s ok to teach our children about different religions, doctrines and dogmas. It gives them a more open mind to people, and to life. The words Satan Club are most likely to scare parents etc. But honestly I know Satanists in real life, have married a few, and they are the nicest, most kind hearted people I’ve ever encountered.
The Pagans who murdered Christians weren't false Pagans because Pagans never believed in loving their neighbors as themselves, doing unto others as they would have others do unto them, inasmuch as you have done it unto the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me or loving one another as I have loved you, since those are Christian teachings, and so they were just being true to their beliefs when they persecuted, tortured, and murdered Christians.
You seem to forget the Inquisition and witch hunts that christians inflicted on innocent people. Christians are not innocent of horrible violence inflicted in the name of god.
The Inquisitors and witch hunters and other "Christians" who committed horrible violence on innocent people weren't following Jesus' teachings of love and forgiveness and mercy, and so weren't true Christians. Problem solved!!
No Partin, the problem isn’t solved because people are still commuting social witch hunts on minorities and people who don’t fit the “social mould,” that people like you create. There’s this saying they love to hide behind “hate the sin, love the sinner,” whilst condemning the person’s flesh to a hellish miserable existence.
Wow this is crazzy...
How so? Please be specific.
Who says Satan exists.We were never taught this at school.Jesus had risen to save our souls.There is evidence Jesus existed nothing about Satan.
Actually, there is very little evidence Jesus existed. There might have been many people similar to him, but real conclusive evidence is hard to come by. Is the older personage that the Bible talks about the same as the infant child, who really knows? Too many lost years!
The after hours Satan class seems to be approved by the Supreme Court. I'd be happy with an after hours Harry Potter class as well. All fictional classes are good with me, and possibly non-fictional classes too. Children minds could do with being stimulated as much as possible into accepting critical thought.
Lionheart, there are lot of men right here on Galveston Island. I've met some of them. Once I met two of them in the same day! But they claimed to not know eachother, even though they were both wearing white bracelets from the same mental hospital. They must have escaped at different times.
That’s interesting. I suppose mental illness existed even 2000 years ago, but presumably people just assumed it was Satan taking them over. 🤗
Satan loves you Nicholas, but I'm his favorite.
Ummmm... "Save our souls" from whom? Not Satan? Not Antichrist? What about that incident in the desert where Satan allegedly tempted Jesus? Did your school not teach that part? Here's a link to the story. It is documented in THREE of the Gospels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temptation_of_Christ Check it out. Maybe your teacher didn't tell you everything.
And Bible scholars have repeatedly pointed out that the Gospel authors copied from one another. That's not independent correlation. So basically, not proof.
Matthew 4:1-11 At that time Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
Just curious, when you read books, do you believe everything you read?
Nicholas, do you believe everything they taught you in school, without question? I bet you believe everything they say on TV too. You must never question the sincerity of the BBC! Even the Queen watches it!
Nicholas J Page; Satan and Jesus are not supposed to be "proven". They are both mythological figures, that are a matter of faith.
I notice that many Christians love to cherry pick from the bible. It's an all or nothing thing. If there's a Jesus, there's a Lucifer. If homosexuality is an abomination then adulterers need to be stoned to death, in the streets.
Separation of church and state" is paraphrased from Thomas Jefferson and used by others in expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution which reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Therefore State run Public Schools should not have religion, only private academic institutions that post Religion. Also signs and buildings that have Landmark status.
Did you argue this when Christians were fighting for their right to party it up at schools? or did you change your mind when the name of Satan was invoked?
Let them fail honestly. They're trying to push buttons, in the Name of Satan, and using an artist's interpretation of my image, which doesn't bode well for business success. Satanists are described as Atheists With Attitude, and they might be trying to teach Materialism, of which The Nazis did a much better job. Science in the name of Pagan Atheism, when the smarter sientists can tell you, Atheism isn't provable either. The Preachers' Kids should go. Religion can be taught in Scientific Fashion, as described in the Bhagavad Gita and demonstrated by Hubbard, and I'm hoping to rerelease The Holy Grail.
As a parent and as long as the student is a minor you have the right to forbid their attendance to any after school activity regardless of what others may think. Remember, you have the right to say NO.
This takes the cake. Who started this group ? An adult ? It's one thing to join hands with people that don't believe in God. Some times non believers are more human than believer!! But, to allow a satanic group to gather among children is so messed up. First thing that comes to mind is the separation of church and state. What kind of school allows such a group on school grounds. And second, for those of you believe in the evil one, why in God's name are you allowing these children to be followers of the evil one !!!!! Is all reason and decency gone now ??? We have enough problems in this country with communists trying to take over our government and compromising our strength in the world. It's mind boggling. There is a limit to how open and supportive one can or should be. Sorry, I'm anit-satan, and all it stands for.
THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN A LITERAL SATAN. FFS, religious people are simple-minded. Until you can PROVE the god of the bible exists nobody should be taught the bible, other than to show how many lies and false claims it contains. Very little in the bible can be proven to be true, and a lot of it have been proven to be false. PROVEN! No Adam and Eve; no Garden of Eden, no global flood, no wandering in the desert for 40 years, the 10 commandments so many profess to be the highest moral code are not what the bible actually calls the 10 commandments, bats are not birds, the moon is not a light, and so many other things that an all knowing, all powerful, supreme creator of the universe would know are wrong. Nobody from any religion ever has provided any evidence at all for the existence of a god. Nobody ever. There is no reason to believe in any of that, including Satan.
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Well if they stick to the types of activities they list on the flier, it certainly wont be as ACTUALLY harmful to the children as the Jews are! They openly mutilate infants genitalia and then sexually molest the child after the fact, yet they aren't thrown in jail for their crimes because they have insidiously managed to shield their CHILD MOLESTATION & RITUALIZED MUTILATION behind The First Amendment, as "protected religious freedom".....
Why are parents shocked and dismayed? Does it simply go back to what's been happening by the majority of groups, praise as we praise or be condemned. Acceptance is great, tolerance is best. Until people learn and practice tolerance we'll continue having these shock & awe moments.
Satan is the enemy of the human race!! He doesn't stop being the enemy of the human race because some people have deluded themselves into "thinking that he is their friend" and hates those people even more than the rest of the human race because he considers them even bigger fools than other people, who, at least, know that he isn't their friend. Satanists and others who "think" that "Satan is our friend" because he gives them some little bit of power are like Jewish capos in Nazi death camps, who would "think" that "Nazis are our friends" because they gave them a little bit of power, so that they can help the Nazis control the rest of the Jews in the camp, whereas the Nazis' actual attitude toward them was "You are just more of these damn Jews and when we don't need you anymore, you will go into the ovens with the rest of them!!". Someone who is even more hateful toward people than the Nazis were toward Jews doesn't think of people in any more kindly way than Nazis did toward Jews!! The same as any other con man, Satan will tell people whatever he needs to tell them to get them to do what he wants them to do and lead them wherever he wants, and will present himself as an "angel of light" to them and Satan Clubs as "just harmless educational programs", since he couldn't deceive as many people if he always appeared to them just as Satan!! God, the same as any father who loves his children, doesn't want them taken in and conned by con artist gods and goddesses, either, because everyone in the spirit world isn't our friend, anymore than everyone in this world is our friend, and many spirits hate us passionately!! "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but try the spirits to see if they are of God, because many false prophets are gone out into the world".
Maybe they’re false satanists lol who are just edgy atheists who like the dark imagery without the belief. Who love others and live better than most modern Christians. Like your frothing at the mouth self. lol
You hit the nail on the head
That’s it blind mind, keep spitting your deranged occult venom.
You have to be on the side of Satan, since you deny the obvious truth that Satan is the enemy of the human race. Friendship with the world and Satan is enmity with God, as Scripture clearly tells us, and that isn't deranged occult venom, as you claim. You are full of deranged occult venom (to call it by another name and put it politely) and are merely judging me and others by yourself!!
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who think in binary and those who don’t.
I’m not judging, I’m simply saying you’re full of bull poop, Partin. An no, I’m not on the side of Satan, silly goose. If anyone is full of judgement it’s you calling me a Satanist just because I disagree with your boring rhetoric. An realistically anything dealing with religion is occult. Religion is madness. I left the church, because of its venomous rhetoric and foolish notions that people should believe in one notion of the spirit, in one path. I may be wandering but I’m not lost. As per usual, may the Goddess shed light on your shadowed path, Partin. Goddess bless your little heart. 😘
Truth isn't required to entertain you and not be "boring", according to you, in order for it be truth, but is still truth, regardless of your stupid opinions about it. Two plus two being four and all other mathematical truths are still true, despite being boring. Go to a movie or a party or whatever else excites when you don't want to be bored, and come back after all that, when you have the need to be excited out of your system for a while, and listen to the truth, but the problem with that is that indulging in enough of that need to be excited will make you or anyone addicted to it and not capable of being anything other than "bored" by spiritual truth, except as made up to suit yourself, which is your situation!! Somebody who has to be entertained and excited all the time, such as yourself, is a very shallow and immature and unreasonable person!! You just toss out the statements that "anything dealing with religion is occult" and "religion is madness", instead of, sensibly, abuse of religion is madness, without offering any proof for your statements, which is very unreasonable!! You are lost, as long as you are doing these things, no matter what you "think" about it, as the rest of us can clearly see!! May God shed His light on your shadowed path and bless your withered heart!!!
Besides which, the spiritual truth of God isn't boring, but only very exciting and vitalizing for all sensible and attuned people!! Getting to be with God in Heaven, which eye has not seen and mind has not dreamed how wonderful it is, can't be anything other than exciting to all right-thinking people, and is only "boring" to those, such as yourself, who aren't able to think very much at all or think correctly and are used, unknown to yourselves, by Satan, who wants to discourage and eliminate all interest in and desire for Heaven, so that he can get more people into his clutches and torment them forever!! The most effective tools of Satan have always been those who didn't even believe in him or think that they had anything to do with him, such as yourself, because you have all not been on your guard against him!!
The path is fine, I’m just saying misrepresent the path is all. Another “false Christian” in a long line of them lol. All your copy and paste parrot squawking. Satan is a perversion of Samael, who is just doing his job, as God commanded. Not evil, just creating a contrast. But oh Lordy Lordy do Christians love to demonize what they refuse to understand. But that’s only if you understand the history of the Abrahamic cosmology and mythology, and the history of the politics that accompanied them. Without biases. Project all you like, Partin. The gods will judge you venal, manipulative, self righteous and a bearer of falsehoods in the end. But no worries, there’s no hell for that. For someone who says that the Catholic Church is a false faith you sure do like to invoke their copyrights of exorcism and hell alot lol. May the goddess bless you. hugs
Again, you aren't offering any evidence that there is no Hell, but just toss out that statement without any proof, as usual with you!! Exorcism and Hell are true for everyone, not just Catholics, and even true for you, since your denials don't make them not true for you and games never succeed in making the truth "untrue". The "gods" are going to have too many problems of their own, even more than they have now, to be able to worry about judging me or anyone else!! Semantics of "Satan being a perversion of Sammael" don't actually make him a "good guy, just doing his job", since the reality behind the semantics is still Satan as a rebel against and enemy of God! Cosmology, semantics, and "mythology" are only taken for reality by fools, such as yourself, but aren't mistaken for that by all sensible people, which is one way that we tell the difference between your kind and sensible people. Go ahead and deceive yourself in any way that you like!! May God bless and lead you into His Light!!!
Just because you set your oily venomed words on fire, doesn’t make them truth. It’s not semantics, it’s context, and context is evidence enough that the hell of the Christian faith isn’t real. Why does it need to be real when Christian’s have be creating a hell on earth for anyone non Christian. Anyone non Catholic, anyone non Protestant. Face it Partin, y’all want an after life hell to be real because most of the wars, all the crusades, and all inquisitions have been created by Christians who get their inspiration from the Bible. Holding fast to one verse whilst ignoring the others. And no, they’re not “false Christians,” they just humans who know not what they do. They are Christians whether you like it or not. You call yourself sensible But then threaten me with eternal hell. That the difference between your cult and my spirituality. Hell is here on the earth, and it’s spread by fire and torches by cultists like you. My gods don’t need eternity to bait believers to their views. We simply see their wisdom for what it is.
May the goddess bless your heart to see that the almond smell of your words is actually cyanide. ♥️☮️♥️☮️
He certainly stops by not existing...
While it horrifies me personally, if you start denying one group then any group can be denied access. Just as when you deny one group the freedoms you have you are setting yourself up for oppression as well. Making a big deal about this will only drive students to explore it. I taught middle school for 22 years and teach high school right now
May I ask why it horrifies you?
What's next child sacrifices
It's obvious that you did not read the article.
Technically they should allow it. But they can have fun with it and send their people and teach kids that it's wrong. Win by being better and more appealing.
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I'm a 61yr old female, white conservative. I am a Republican and a Trump supporter.I left christianity because of its prejudice and blindness. May the Goddess show those who wear blinders her path. Using the word Satan is simply an attempt to show that they are not Christian. No more, no less.
Wow Liz, congrats on leaving christianity because of it's prejudice and blindness! Don't stop now, you're on the right track! Now if you can just apply the same logic to remove the blinders of being a conservative, Republican, **Trump supporter, you'll really be kicking it. Unfortunately there isn't much you can do about being female and white.
absolutely not, they did away with the church in schools and we know now what that did.
In my opinion, religion, of any stripe, has absolutely no place in a secular setting. Public schools are, and should be, open to all and any religion at all needs to stay out of it. That being said, deal with what you wish for; if it’s good for one faith, it’s good for all faiths
Satanism? That seems questionable, but Pastafarianism and the logic of the Flying Spaghetti Monster would be useful since it is a satirical approach to exposing the ridiculous nature of most organized religions.
No, I don't think elementary students in any state or country should be learning Satanic studies, Our country wasn't built up on Satanism it was built on God even though it was taken out of context. What they learn about Satan is taught in Church and the Holy Bible that's if they go and their parents teach them the truth. God has always been in schools till different religions had it taken out of schools and the government
Jehovah, Yahweh Elohim, was taught in schools and the government before all these other people and their beliefs had it taken out. Satanism is going to far. The Holy Bible teaches us about that conniving, lying falling angel and in Church too! If the parents are teaching their children about God then they're learn about Satan too even in Church if they attend.
Well! Blessed be!
I believe that all faths should be shared Freely with the public so that way we can get rid of the nasty stigmas That may be placed upon said faith by opposing belief systems. Educate yourself before you judge people. Besides according to the Christian faith we aren't to be the ones to judge that's up to God.
All I know is if we train/teach/prepare our children/kids/students/etcetera in the right way they won’t leave it. They will cleave to it.
Change perspective, save lives - Author Unknown.
"By their fruits, you will know them", as Jesus said, not by what you or anyone else says about yourselves, but only by the actual evidence of your actions and words here, which tell the real story about you and not your self-justification. Your not admitting that you are on the side of Satan and your not actually being on the side of Satan, despite all your denials, are two entirely different things!! Many people, such as yourself, don't know the truth about who they are, as you don't know the truth about who you are!!! Dismissing my or anyone else's words as "boring" is irrelevant and just an evasion of their telling the truth about yourself, which you want to avoid facing, no matter how you have to do it!! I'm not here to entertain you and not be boring you, but just to tell you the truth!! There is some light and truth in many religions because God loves everyone and wouldn't leave people without any light or truth at all, but that is a trillion light years away from saying that there is no standard for truth and light, without which we couldn't be sure of light and truth in any of these other religions, either. There is one way ultimately of going to God and being accepted by Him, even if God will take into consideration the light that you responded to. No standard for truth in measuring distance or weight or in mathematics or any other area would leave the world in chaos and anarchy, and the Tower of Babel, and so we need the standards even more in religion and spiritual matters than in these other areas!!! May God bless your little heart and lead you back to the path of Truth and Light,
He with shadowed vision should not talk about truth and light. ☮️♥️☮️♥️
So why are you with your very shadowed vision, more than anyone else here, talking about truth and light?! Practice what you preach!!
I agree with all earlier posts . It really has nothing to do with Satan . It is about separation of church and state. Public schools should not be Christian centric. It could have been a Taliban club instead of Satan club(or a Christian club) - same difference. In Parochial schools - it should not be a problem to have a Christian oriented club. I don’t believe they are pushing Satan- it sounds more like after school daycare- with a twist to make a point.
The Bible talks about the Devil and how he was cast out of Heaven, I think it is only right that children should be able to learn more about the Devil
The Unsatanic Temple does not represent the religion/philosophy of Satanism ... Nor is it a separate denomination. In order for anything to be considered a denomination (no matter if its Christians, Jewish, whatever) the denomination has to share key philosophical doctrinal views that are "mostly" aligned with the top main branch. And The Unsatanic Temple in no way shape or form shares these key philosophical views (hell I'm willing to bet most of their membership doesn't even know what these key points are. And the few who do have been busted openly misrepresenting these facts in order to further their agenda. * recordings exist of these misrepresentations on podcast and other forms of social media)... Rather The Temple likes it or not in 1966 Anton LaVey codified what it means to be a Satanist. Satanism stopped being a loose term that year. TST depends on the Satanist label remaining a loose term in order for them to exist. But I'm sorry, you cannot change history just because you don't like it. TST counts on lazy, fearful, stupid people who do not engage in the necessary research to better understand the borders that define what a Satanist *is from what a Satanist is not in order to further their agenda..(rather it be the people who join them, or who write articles like the one above.)
Here are a couple reasons why TST claims to be a separate denomination of satanism...
individuality (people can embrace their individuality without being a Satanist)
Secular beliefs (people can hold secular beliefs without being a Satanist)
their 7 Tenets ( even with the inclusion of their seven tenets that mostly go the opposite direction of satanic philosophy they have confined what they think it means to be a Satanist into this little tiny bubble..)
.... they also claim to be an inclusive community...
Real Satanism is exclusive... and most certainly not a community. (Look at it this way, two separate satanists could have two separate goals that go completely against one another, and they may admittedly hate each other. We are very much a "divided we stand" philosophy which embraces realistic standards of what it means to be a satanic individual.)
So no I don't think this claptrap of TST disinformation should be at all taught to kids. (1) real Satanism isn't for children. (2)Tricking children into thinking they are part of a legitimate religious organization is a form of indoctrination.(3) TST depends on the impressionable minds of children to better secure the existence and future of their organizations... confuse and trick them while they are young and they will be yours forever...
Educate yourselves people... educate yourselves...
IMO , all Faiths should be taught in school. Ignorance causes many conflicts. The school I attended did this, which served me well in my many travels. In my school [ I had 70 students in my classes] the Bible was read over the intercom every morning . I was one that did that . After retiring I became a Pastor. Because of my understanding of other Faiths I respect them and have many friends I may not have had if I didn't have that understanding. We did not have "clubs "after or during classes that were based on faiths. The Churches or whatever should have these ; diffidently, not public schools .
Open your door to all or open your door to none
Teaching about religious beliefs is one thing but teaching religion is another. Religion of all kinds should be banned from public schools.
The Pagans who murdered Christians weren't false Pagans because Pagans never believed in loving their neighbors as themselves, doing unto others as they would have others do unto them, inasmuch as you have done it unto the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me or loving one another as I have loved you, since those are Christian teachings, and so they were just being true to their beliefs when they persecuted, tortured, and murdered Christians. Whereas, "Christians" had to disobey and ignore Christ's teachings in order to commit any evils against other people. It didn't take too much, if any, misleading to make Pagans do to Christians what they were already inclined and used to doing to other people, anyway. It doesn't matter that you aren't a Roman because you are a Pagan and so include yourself among all Pagans. You are known by the company that you keep. Romans also worshipped Sol (Apollo) and Terra (Gaia or Mother Earth) among their gods and goddesses. Romans didn't march across their world and conquer it by loving their neighbors as themselves. It doesn't make Nazi Germany any less imitative of the Roman Empire just because "all major European empires have tried to imitate Rome", anymore than serial killers are any less murderous because some other people are killing a few people once in a while, too. It is also not strictly true that other Empires have imitated Rome or Nazi Germany because the British Empire never went to Rome's or Berlin's extremes and neither did the Spanish or Portuguese colonizers. As for forced conversions of Jews in early 15th century Spain or those empires being "mostly Christian", how many times do I have to keep telling you over and over and over again that no people or whole empires are truly Christian just because they call themselves "Christian", but only by following Jesus' teachings of love, mercy, and forgiveness. So, those who forced Jews to convert and committed all other crimes against any people disqualified themselves from actually being true Christians!! This time, write it down on a piece of paper and put it up on your refrigerator door or tattoo it on your forearm or forehead, so that you can remind yourself of it and I don't have to keep telling you the same thing over and over again, endlessly!! Why do you call anyone "Christian" who doesn't practice that belief in loving people or know how to do it, consistently speaking?!! Except that non-practicing "Christians" fit your prejudice and propaganda against Christianity!! Christians haven't even been killing other people for the whole last two thousand years, but only during the Inquisition and Crusades, and some religious wars, and during the war between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland, which haven't lasted all of two thousand years, but, put together, less than 100 years, and, again, those who have done those things weren't following Jesus' teachings of love and so weren't true Christians. As for exorcisms "only being done to mentally ill people", you must think that you are the only sensible person in the world, who would know enough to make sure that these demon possessed people aren't just mentally ill and, if they are, get them psychiatric help before performing an exorcism ritual on them, but your conceited opinion of yourself isn't true because the Catholic Church definitely investigates these people to make sure that there is no mental health problem going on with them or anything other than strictly demonic possession happening with them, since they want to avoid any more superstition being hung on them than already is!!! Read any reliable history of demonic possession and familiarize yourself with it before talking about something that you know nothing about!! What some "Catholics" (in name only!) have said that Hell is and what it actually is are two entirely different things!! People don't go to Hell for disagreeing with other people, but because of defying God, and then they put themselves in Hell and God respects their free will enough to let them have what they want, which is an eternity without Him. They can have it their way, but there is a price for having it their own way. That isn't a threat, but just reality, the same as breaking man's laws will put people into prison. If you can't do the time, on Earth or in eternity, don't do the crime or ask forgiveness if you do. I'm not right-wing just because of telling you and others the truth, but both wings are needed for a bird or plane to fly, other than in circles. I'm not a false "Christian" because it is loving you and following Christ to tell you the truth, and not just tell you that there is nothing wrong with you, like a "doctor" who tells a cancer patient that "there is nothing wrong with you"!! May God untwist your twisted heart and lead you out of your cult-like "thinking"!!
Geez Partin, someone like you who doesn't understand, or refuses to use paragraph structure should step away from the keyboard forever. Just typing more words does nothing to get your point across and you aren't winning. Do you talk that way too? I bet you're the kind of person people want to run away from, or make excuses to hang up the phone because they can't get a word in edgewise.
Voltaire said to a friend at the end of a letter: P.S. "If I'd had more time, this letter would be shorter."
I don't expect you'll get that...
You aren't able to understand any statement longer than "if" and so paragraphs are wasted on something like you and your ilk, and therefore my statements are fine as they are and good enough for you and your kind. Of course, you won't get this, either. Your very obnoxious statements are proof that it is you whom other people run away from and hang up on, and you are just judging other people by yourself. If you had had less time, your post would have even more B.S. squeezed into it!! All that nonsense of yours doesn't make any non-existent "point" of yours any better and you should do yourself and everyone else here a big favor and never put another post in here again, since you aren't any good at it and are too easily refuted!! Leave the posting in here to we adults and go back to your nap time, little Johnny Sheehan.
Sorry Partin, but your Kung Fu is no good! It's actually comical watching you gnash your teeth and wail in a feeble attempt to appear superior. Astound us all with another deluge of disjointed ideas and blithering that convinces nobody of anything, and refutes nothing.
Children, such as yourself, are never convinced by what convinces adults, consider things "disjointed" and "blithering" that aren't (to the extent that they even know what "disjointed" and "blithering" are!), are amused at things that are only amusing to themselves, think that things are "feeble" that, again, aren't, and are always being astounded and amazed, and so your admitting all that about yourself is just more evidence for the prosecution and proof that I'm correct about your immaturity and non-comprehension!! Keep those admissions and evidence for prosecution coming, little Johnny Sheehan!!!
LOL you certainly don't disappoint. When your critical thinking skills fail (which doesn't take long), you resort to logical fallacies and absurd circular arguments. You seem like the kind of guy who yells at kids to "get off my lawn".
Here's something to get your panties in a knot over: If there was a single shred of demonstrable evidence that the Bible is the true word of God, there would be no need for apologists such as yourself.
Yet, here you are...
"If there was a single shred of demonstrable evidence that the Bible is the true word of God, there would be no need for apologists such as yourself". So, consistently, we would have to conclude that Democracy isn't real or true, our families don't really exist, and everything else that we stand up for and defend and speak about out of love for it "isn't true" and "doesn't really exist" or we wouldn't need to talk about it. WRONG!!! Why are those people fighting in Ukraine at this very moment if the Democracy that they are fighting for isn't real or doesn't matter or wouldn't need them fighting for it if it were real?!! You aren't able to think correctly and this statement of yours is just more proof of that!!! Leave the adult conversation to we adults here and just go back and play with your blocks or toys or play with yourself some other way, and stop trying to get into a conversation that is too far over your head!! These children are so cute when they try to imitate adults, aren't they?!! Look, he even signed his post this time with his name Little Johnny. But it's nap time for you now, little guy, and so run along to bed and pleasant dreams!!
Thanks for proving my point entirely. You should give up being an apologist because you just aren't any good at it. You're just an angry old man screaming at his computer.
You could be off your meds, which would explain a few things, but I'm finished here. Not because you've defeated me with your superior intellect, but because I'm fresh out f***s to give about your odoriferous rantings.
Please don't hesitate to entertain us all with a parting shot, even though it will fail as miserably as all of your others.
My friend your knowledge of history is flawed. It is well documented the British were no better than the Nazi's in their treatment of the Germans in the Bohr wars. Placing them in concentration camps and starving them to death including women and young children. The British used Nazi torture techniques on the Mau Maus during the Mau Mau uprising. And what about Americans rounding up and killing Native Americans. Do you not know about "Manifest Destiny"? The Nazis used America's "Manifest Destiny" to justify their actions. They were only doing what white Christian Americas had been doing for many centuries.
Remember it was the Native American's who feed, sheltered and were kind to the original European settlers. And they had the own Gods and no Bible. It was the white European Christians who brought their God and Bible and with it the killing of the people who feed, clothed and sheltered them. Why would you want to be part of a religion and a God that supports massive killings, rape and enslavement of people who believe in different Gods?
I have found people consider themselves "True Christians" or False Christians believe only the good parts of their religion and what's in the Bible. If you are a "True Christian" please explain Ezekiel 23:20. Thank you
I'm not and other actual Christians aren't part of a religion and a God that supports massive killings, rape and enslavement of people who believe in different gods because those who have done such things weren't true Christians and following Christ's law of love, mercy, and forgiveness and their false "God" that they believed in and followed wasn't our God. They weren't part of us, for the 10,000th time!!!
@John D. Partin Sorry, I thought you were a Christian and followed the teachings in the Bible.
It's sad the Christian God allowed so many followers, young girls and women to be rapped and murdered by the Japanese during World War II as comfort women. That same Christian God allow the same thing to happen in Europe. And we are seeing it happen again today with the Russians rapping and killing young Christian girls in the Ukraine.
People's doing all kinds of evil things in this world and God's wanting them to do them are two entirely different things or else there wouldn't be any such thing as sin in the world, if everything that people did or do was or is God's will. That is just idiotic and ridiculous for you to say that!!! The only way that God could stop people from deciding to do evil and then doing it would be for Him to take away their free will, which He won't do because then He would make their doing good things and loving Him and other people impossible, too!! It is very strange that you aren't able to understand and agree with such obvious logic and common sense as this, but that reveals the very low level of your intelligence and so I just have to take that into account when I tell you anything, and not expect more maturity and comprehension from you than you are capable of giving!!
Firstly I think introducing factual educational information about any religion would be easier to understand starting in 3rd grade and should be done in every school public and catholic ect. I believe theres 5 religions that are most common Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism which should be studied and i believe that Satanism under Allister Crowley should be studied around 7th grade because what you think you know and what is real is quite different especially when your real exposure came from Kolchak The Night Stalker. This critical thinking concept I don't get at all and went to college for 2 years with the promise of every class being taught that way and 20 years later i still think it's a crock marketing tool. And if the Satan is an abbreviation for something being used in a get back way than these people need to be gathered up and plopped on a uninhabited south pacific island for awhile.
Did the British or Americans, at their worst, murder six million Germans or Mau Maus or Native Americans each, not to mention millions of other people?!! If not, the Nazis and Soviets even more so still have them beat!! Ezekiel 23:20 is explained as either just human beings putting their words into God's mouth or else God's letting some of that in, since the Bible is His dealings with the human race, which would have to relate some of these wrong incidents.
If Christian dictators arent responsible for 700 million deaths since the 2nd century AD. Aren’t responsible for the crusades. Aren’t responsible for the mass conversions. Aren’t responsible for the concepts of racism and white supremacy. Then neither are Communist Dictators responsible for the death of a100 million people. Here’s the actual point I’ve been trying to make Partin. Fascist individuals love to co-opt and appropriate ideologies for their own gain and call it progress, love to call it betterment, love to justify the ends by any means they deem fit. Mao, Stalin, Hitler, are just a few names from a long line of names who are responsible for the deaths of millions the last 2000 years. There were kings and presidents too. Washington, King George, Jackson’s trail of tears. Hell. There are a 100 million dead natives because of contact with unclean westerners like Cortez and Pizarro. Plus all the dead native children being found in Christian boarding schools.
But nope, instead you’ll probably just sit there and make up excuses like “wElL tHeYrE fAlSe ChRiStIaNs” or parrot some other nonsense when your trapped in a philosophical corner. 🤷🏻♂️ As always. goddess bless you.
Nah! Your mythical god has them beat. He’s supposed to have committed an even bigger genocide than anyone. On the plus side, did save that drunkard Noah though and his family. 🤷🏼
For both of you, are people who are going to church and praying every day and love Jesus and testifying to other people about Jesus actually atheists, no matter how much they say that they are, or do their actions prove that they aren't really atheists?! If you have any sense and discernment at all, you will say that they aren't really atheists! So, why don't you follow suit and not keep insisting that people who don't do what Christians are supposed to do (love their neighbors as themselves and forgive and not kill them) are "still Christians"? There can only be one reason for your refusal to do so: because unloving "Christians" "confirm" your bigotry and propaganda against Christians, and that is more important to you than reason, common sense, consistency, and fairness, and so they go flying out the window!! But no matter what games you play with yourselves, people who don't follow Jesus' teachings of love, mercy, and forgiveness aren't and weren't Christians, no matter how much they say or said they are or were!! If all accusations said against you shouldn't be believed and mere allegations and attributions against you aren't the same, to you, as actual evidence, then why are you operating on the double standard of saying that all accusations against God should be believed and mere allegations and attributions against Him are "the same as actual evidence", and make yourselves hypocrites?!! Again, God bless you and lead you into His Light!!!
Poor little victim. the truth is that when Christians weren’t butchering each other in their holy civil wars, Catholic vs. Protestants, they were butchering non Christians. Ask the Spanish Jews before their mass conversions in the 14th-16th centuries. Even that wasn’t enough. Look up what happened to Comversos. The problem is that while the “false” Christians were butchering, the so called good Christians just stood by and let it happen. So many women murdered all because of the mere allegations of witch. So many women abused all because their husbands “had god ordained authority to.” The last time Christians as a whole were a troubled minority was just around the time of when Constantine converted to Christianity.
Not everything is as black and white as you trying to make it. There are people, though rare, are atheists and Christian/Pagan. They rationalize the reality surround history of the. Myths. And in some way, draw inspiration from it. It’s a fine line, but it can be walked. Goddess Bless you, Partin. Goddess bless your ignorant heart. ♥️☮️♥️☮️
My post of March 15 at 11:13 p.m. is my reply to you. Go and read and try to understand it, if you can, and don't waste my time or your time with any more of your nonsense here, since I won't reply.
I’m just matching your Venom Partin. You’re entitled to your opinion as i am mine. Insult me all you like. Doesn’t prove anything. Other than the words love and light ring hollow in your voice. I am passionate in my defense of everyone’ right to their own views. Perhaps there will be topics we can agree on sometime in the future. In the mean time, I’ll leave you be. Goddess bless your heart. ☮️♥️☮️♥️
Hello there Robert! I pray that you have a well spirit, I'm curious of you, you've said, "I do believe in gods," which may I ask? You speak of a goddess of wisdom? Who, for there are many... and importantly, why? What is the reason for which you believe in this figure to be the staple for your belief and what does it offer that Jesus Christ doesn't? Now, you've acknowledged Jesus (Yeshua), being a political figure against the religious system; now Jesus spoke well against the Pharisees and Sadducees of how they polluted the people of Israel to commit sin, by establishing laws outside of the law of God. He Himself also is a high priest; He was called Rabbi and received His baptism at the age of thirty and according to the Old Testament or perhaps found in the Talmud/Mishnah; the minimum age to become a priest was thirty. He attended the synagogue as was His custom and read from the Torah... Jesus doesn't seem to show much anger towards Rome or the Gentile in any particular way as you could read how He spoke well of the Centurion who placed his faith in Him about the healing of his servant and later then healed the ear of a Roman guard (Malchus) who Peter stabbed off. You mentioned the Catholic Church created hell? I find this odd to hear as Jesus spoke much about hell (hades in Greek) in the New Testament which is far older than the Catholic Religion and from the Old Testament there is known concepts about hell and can be referred to as Sheol (a place of darkness and separation from God) as Jesus also describes in the New Testament. You are rather correct about politics and religion joining together to establish Jesus Christ as something other than what the Apostles taught (referring to Constantine), but Jesus did claim to be God in the flesh; “I and my Father are one.” - John 10:30 and "For unto us a child is born (Jesus from the virgin, Mary), unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." - Isaiah 9:6, refer to: Immanuel (God with us)
We see throughout the New Testament how many come to worship Jesus, yet He does not turn any from Himself as the angels however did, who are servants also. In the Old Testament, God claims that none shall receive glory or worship, but Himself; He also claimed that beside Him there is no God/Isaiah 44:6 and beside Him there is no savior/Isaiah 43:11 The well known prayer of the Shema Israel; "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:" - Deuteronomy 6:4 Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM." - John 8:58, this is the known name of God (YHWH/I AM) and is what God spoke to Moses from the burning bush; Exodus 3:13-14 And how the Apostles/Disciples declared Jesus being God our savior, especially Stephen before his death. There are a number of secular documents written about Jesus Christ, namely Flavius Josephus and Tacitus who were and are known as some of the greatest historians of our time, they recorded history at its finest and not myth; why would they speak of Jesus Christ if He is a myth, they spoke that He was wise and performed great miracles? The Talmud is another record that states of one by the name of Yeshua who was crucified before the passover and was considered a blasphemer as the religious sect declared Jesus to be according to the scriptures. There are several other historians and archeological findings that point to the evidence of Jesus Christ. Now, you can testify He was a real person who lived and died, but according to scripture; He rose from the dead? From the eye witness accounts of 500 people who spoke and walked with Him afterwards over a period of 40 days before ascending to heaven. Now, given the testimony of governors and other figures of authority you can read by from the Roman Empire; they spoke of "Christians," as being radical, but non-threatening; these people attempted to speak about the Truth of Jesus which many then and now reject, these men and women only testified of the love and promise of life everlasting to the many and were scourged, beaten, and killed for it. Would people who spoke of such innocency really die for a myth? They asked for no gain other than to provide for the helpless and poor; to put your faith in Jesus Christ as being reliable! Is He reliable? One sure way to know God is real, prophecy; just look at Israel... In the Old Testament, God promises to multiply Abraham, He also promises to prosper Israel should they keep His statutes and commandments, but should they not and follow other god(s); God then allows them into the hands of their enemies and that would be killed, humiliated, enslaved, and scattered, unless they return to Him; they were not entirely destroyed because of His promise. Throughout the Old Testament, it's about the nation whereas the New Testament it's about the Man. From the Old Testament, you can clearly see the violence and sin the people of Israel commit, of which God does not command as some like to accuse. You will at times see God exact His vengeance upon evildoers from the such like Baal worshippers and whatnot, because the atrocities they committed by sex rituals and the sacrificing of children in the most vile of ways...
People like to accuse God for killing people, but if someone came to you by force and said, "Give us your child so that we may have sex with them and split them into two, opening their entrails for Baal (or any other god)." Would you not want justice? So God does so through His prophets of old... Now look at the history of Israel, they have been killed, humiliated, and enslaved more than any other nation in the world, but still stand today? That's unheard of given the history of some of the most powerful kingdoms like Ancient Rome/Greece and Egypt, how do they stand now in the ruins? Or we can acknowledge the odd prejudice against Israel from the world, how so many seem to hate these people who own a land full of desert and hills that takes 1/1000 of the earth. How the UN has repeatedly more than 270 times condemned Israel; whereas not once has done so to the Arab nation who has known to terrorize the world, isn't that a bit odd? Even the Catholic Church has attempted throughout history to destroy the Jewish people and Hitler himself stated that he was only trying to finish what they started. I can testify of the Catholic Religion not being Christlike on the fact that they claim to be the new Israel when God made His specific promise to Israel that they would be established above the nations of the world. Now, I'm not saying all Catholics are evil, but the belief Catholicism holds is in no way Biblical. They believe that Jesus Christ is not the only way to heaven, but one can work their way to heaven through purgatory or they can pray to His mother? Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." - John 14:6
Anyway, I offer this for you to think about; if you value life, would you not seek the possibility of living eternally? I understand it can be difficult to put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ, because the world opposes Him and it's not popular, but Jesus promises to those who endure the temptations of this world shall be given a crown of life, that you will be kings and priests of the new heavens and earth after the day of judgment. Why reject this offer? What does science offer other than theories and unlearned technology that still doesn't compute the universe as a whole, now there is good science which I'm for, but the former is bad science. What does self-realization offer other than knowledge? From the words of David, "he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow." - Ecclesiastes 1:18 What is reincarnation to man? If this is true, it offers no solution to evil, because karma teaches that if a man abuses a woman; he will be the victim in his next life with no remembrance from the previous? You are correct about the error of religion, Jesus spoke to the woman at the well; “The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.” - John 4:19-26 You are right to reject religion and should, be it Catholicism or Christianity/Protestant as man has polluted the Gospel of Jesus Christ to be a religion of hypocrisy and violence; whereas Jesus came to fulfill the law and thus we as people only need Him, nothing else… “Follow me…” says the Lord. Again, think about these things as your life is very important and is a precious thing to care for, is it not? I only desire for your mind to be open towards Jesus and that your heart may not be hardened away from His love, I pray for the Lord to bless you...
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You have no idea about what "proves any point" or "doesn't prove it" or you wouldn't be mistaking your "points" for "having been proved". You don't have any idea about what makes any point "fail or win" or, again, you wouldn't be mistaking your "points" as "winning" or my actual points as "failing", but go ahead and delude yourself as much as you like!! All of that and your saying "off your meds, fresh out f***s, odoriferous rantings, and parting shot, blah blah blah!!!" are just your very immature and transparent attempt to avoid answering the discrepancy in your "thinking" once again in saying that "if what people stand up for were real, they wouldn't need to stand up for it", as I proved erroneous. Back to bed, little boy, and leave the conversation here to us adults!!