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Speaker of the House Mike Johnson says homosexuality caused the fall of the Roman Empire.

America is getting to know the new Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson.

A previously obscure representative from Louisiana, a national spotlight has been thrust upon him following his surprise election to the speaker role. And inquiries into his past statements have revealed he holds some interesting beliefs, particularly on history and homosexuality.

One newly surfaced statement from Johnson’s past is this 2008 assertion that homosexuality contributed to the fall of Rome:

“Many historians, those who are objective, would look back and recognize and give some credit to the fall of Rome, to not only the deprivation of the society and the loss of morals but also to the rampant homosexual behavior that was condoned by the society.” 

The audio can be heard at the 3:10 mark in the following video: 

We thought that was worth examining. Did homosexuality really cause the fall of Rome?

The Fall of Rome

At its peak, the Roman Empire spanned three continents, held tens of millions of people, and covered more than two million square miles.

It was easily one of the greatest and most powerful empires in antiquity, which made its subsequent fall all the more fascinating. The disintegration of this world power is one of the most-studied events in human history. 

Despite the speaker’s assertion, however, most historians disagree that homosexual citizens of the Roman Empire contributed to its fall.

There were a variety of factors that led to Rome's collapse, historians believe, including:

  • Rampant corruption
  • Overexpansion and division
  • Economic inequality
  • Incompetent emperors who were constantly getting assassinated
  • Frequent invasions

Here's where historians say Rome went wrong:

Corruption

Rome was rampant with political corruption from the top down. Cronyism abounded, and influential seats in government were often sold to the highest bidder, resulting in greedy and/or inept individuals in major positions of power.

This practice not only compromised the integrity of the government but also led to the appointment of many unqualified administrators. These individuals prioritized their wealth and power over the welfare of the people, and funds that could have been used for public works and services often ended up lining the pockets of corrupt officials instead.

Division

The Emperor Diocletian divided the Roman Empire in two in an attempt to make the Empire easier to govern. While that worked in the short term, this split eventually sowed the seeds for deep-rooted divisions that would grow over time.

The Western and Eastern Empires developed distinct identities, with differing economic bases, military capabilities, and cultural norms. This separation fostered a sense of independence that weakened the unity and cohesiveness of the empire as a whole.

Economic Inequality

Constant government spending on wars resulted in increased taxation and inflation on commoners, leading to massive inequality between rich and poor. The wealthy would often flee Roman borders at the first sign of increased taxation, leaving their countrymen high and dry.

For working class citizens, economic woes abounded. Discontent and disaffection among the common people grew, as they struggled to survive under the weight of an economy that favored the affluent and powerful at the expense of the laboring masses.

Emperor Turnover

Leading Rome was a dangerous job; roughly 20% of Roman emperors were assassinated – an astounding stat that reflects the instability and peril of the throne.

This tumultuous leadership scenario was compounded by the fact that many emperors were young and inexperienced, with some being mere children thrust into roles of immense power and responsibility.

Any organization with that kind of leadership turnover is bound to suffer consequences, historians say. 

Invasion

Germanic tribes frequently invaded Rome’s borders, often fleeing attacks from the Huns. While the Roman Empire sometimes tolerated these tribes, they treated them with malice and cruelty. The clear weakness of Rome – from all of the above factors – made it a delicious target for these invading barbarian armies.

In 476 CE, the Germanic king Odoacer sacked Rome and deposed the Roman Empire’s final emperor, Romulus Augustulus, effectively ending the age of the Roman Empire.

What About Homosexuality?

It’s true that the Roman Empire largely embraced homosexual behavior, and men were free to engage in homosexual sex without loss of social status.

In fact, it was often expected that men would have sex with both men and women – so long as they were in the penetrative role.

While things eventually changed in the 3rd century after Christianity’s rise in the Empire, historians largely agree that sexual behavior of Rome's citizens had little, if anything, to do with the cultural, political, and economic rot that plagued it.

In short, most experts and historians would take issue with an assertion that "homosexuality caused the Roman Empire to fall."

What is your take? Do you think it's reasonable to blame the fall of Rome on homosexuality?

86 comments

  1. Katelynne Shouse's Avatar Katelynne Shouse

    Speaker Johnson is an unequivocal moron, therefore anything he says is unequivocally moronic.......intelligent people don't pay attention to morons or what they have to say!

    1. Amante Tadique's Avatar Amante Tadique

      Then dont say anything. Leftist remarks are beside the point of the article.

      1. Tom Herman's Avatar Tom Herman

        Pointing out a moronic statement is not being leftist. Morons are such regardless of party. Once you open your life to public service, all statements you make are relevant to access your character and competence. What Speaker Johnson said about the reason for the fall of Rome has little merit if any and was meant to be inflammatory. It was clearly a bigoted comment.

      2. Lori-Ann Neeb's Avatar Lori-Ann Neeb

        A student of uncle donnie I see. He leads the crowd in the belief that people in politics have the right to ignore any question they do not like. Politics is a public stage. Anyone who can't handle it should not be there. It will be interesting to see if such a blatant bigot helps their cause or not. He may also turn just as many away at the poles by exposing their ignorance and bigotry. We can only hope.

  1. Rev Mark D's Avatar Rev Mark D

    Gee, I thought it was all the lead in the water leached from the lead-constructed aqueducts and pipes. Because homosexuality was not invented by the Romans, nor only AFTER they were at the height of their empire.

    On the other hand, the Roman empire was established and at a tight before Christianity came along. Christianity became the Roman State religion with Constantine, several centuries after Christ showed up, but wasn't widespread in the proportional sense until Constantine made it so. So how do we know it wasn't Christianity that brought down the Roman empire?

    Or maybe it was both, gay Christians who did it... In which case we need to know who did it more, the gay part in the Christians, for the Christian part in the gays? You know, it wasn't me, it was the gay in me who did it. Or it wasn't me, it was the Christian part of me that did it.

    What a silly question.

    Or maybe it was the lead in the water that made everybody gay. That could still be going on, letters everywhere, because of lobbyists and industries that want it so. It's just not in new paint anymore, but it's everywhere else.

    Or maybe it was the Christians who did it because they were jealous of the gays. Or maybe the Christians did it because they felt guilty for being gay. Or maybe the Christians did it because they wanted payback for being persecuted.

    Or maybe it was the Ostragoths and the Visigoths. Or the thousands of other tribes principalities Nations warlords environment changing weather events or geological events, disease, international trade and wars, or the thousand wars that happened among the Europeans between the height of the Roman empire and it's final decline 500 years afterward.

    And where is it written that people stopped acting or being gay or homosexual just because somebody wrote to stop in a book?

    Oh to heck with facts, that's too hard. Let's see, what does that leave us?

    1. Catherine's Avatar Catherine

      @Rev Mark D

      There was a once-favored flunkie whose name I cannot recall, who was punished by being sent to a far away outpost. In retaliation, he choked trade and supplies to the Roman empire while it was struggling. Don't recall if that was before, during, or after death throes of the Roman Empire. And no idea if he was homosexual.

      If you are familiar with Cassandra Claire's 'Very Secret Diaries', I can imagine a version of this topic written so. That could be fun for many : )

      https://www.ealasaid.com/misc/vsd/

  1. Colleen McAllister's Avatar Colleen McAllister

    Mike Johnson is an idiot. The fall of the Roman Empire was caused by a variety of factors, not the least of which was sexual immorality. Gay or straight had nothing to do with it. Corruption run rampant, lack of education, economic inequality. All were factors. Mike Johnson needs to read some real history instead of making it up.

    1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

      He was quoting the bible. God said what Johnson said but God said it first then gave examples for us to look at, dig up and study.

      1. Anisahoni's Avatar Anisahoni

        The historical bible was written abt 300 AD and was a plagiarized version of the ancient Sumerian Clay tablets made 3500 BCE. The Sumerians created writing. The story of creation, the great flood and the creation of homo-sapiens sapiens was written at that time. The Anunnaki gods were our creators. Constantine and the Roman Catholic church created the New Testament and claimed to the emerging church that it was the word of god. Nope, humans were not monotheistic. It is unfortunate that so many Christians who claim to understand and know the historical bible are ignorant about the Sumerians and Anunnaki.

        1. Catherine's Avatar Catherine

          Catherine Ohrin-Greipp

          A like mind happy dance What the Sumerian tablets lay out is the most plausible and sensible explanation for human existence and foibles.

          For the interested, Robert Morning Sky's 3 hour 'Terra Papers' video condenses Zecharia Sitchin's books and lifetime research. An excellent story telling presentation in which histories gathered by epigraphers, who deciphered the Sumerian tablets, converge to fit like a glove.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFunH0WA0gw

          Darwin did say humans and apes had a common ancestor, never that humans were directly related to apes.

        2. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

          Catherine,

          The vast majority of events of the old testament were written post 3500bc and pre 300ad. The places have been dug up and verified as true. Prophecies have been verified as written before executed. I know of your claims of pre biblical stories and have explored them some time ago when I first attempted to prove the Bible wrong to myself.

          Consider this fact: The first to claim patent rights to the laser was not the first to invent the laser.

          1. Lori-Ann Neeb's Avatar Lori-Ann Neeb

            Just because actual sites exist does not prove bible stories. The people who published the bible just used existing stories of other cultures to their advantage. They edited and deleted from or added to those other previous cultures stories to suit their own church agendas. Look up all the other flood myths of ancient cultures that predate the publication of the bible as just one example. There is also the example of some ancient beliefs that a meteor destroyed Soddom and Gamorah which the church later twisted to suit their purposes. You have to look up every myth from every ancient society and disprove it scientifically before you could begin to try to find legitimate proof of your theories. That is what is wrong with bible thumper statements. You seem to think by just disregarding all other theories, your own magically attain credibility. That is also why you need to accept there are holes in your bible stories that will always remain unproven because so much has been lost to time by this point that parts of theories on either side will always remain mysteries. That is why people should realize that arguing what can't be definitively proven just wastes time. We should be focusing on what we could change if we agreed to disagreed and try to work toward solving issues that matter in our own times. And the concept of Rome being brought down by homosexuality is just wrong. Roman faults and actions had nothing to do with the sexual orientation of any people involved.

          2. Catherine's Avatar Catherine

            @ServantOfJudgement

            Who vets authenticity and experts is a conundrum. Only other experts can do that, right? Why should we think they are unbiased or not bribed?

            Based on the following observations, since we were discussing the effect of homosexuality on Rome, first I think what organized religions say is altogether duplicitous.

            Beginning with the deciphering of the Sumerian tablets, multiple countries sent epigraphers who were put in a position of having to record information as found to avoid loss of reputation in their field.

            Are you familiar with Gunung Padang?

            "...older parts of the structure were made sometime between 25,000 and 14,000 years ago, making it the oldest known pyramid in the world today."

            https://phys.org/news/2023-11-evidence-strongly-indonesia-gunung-padang.html

            And it's possible there may be yet another temple below the last one. That is beyond cool.

            How about the dry falls - once 3x the size of Niagra Falls - in the scab lands of Washington state? Those channels are said to have been shaped by the last great flood. That timing upends certain religious writings, as do dinosaurs.

            Cultural creation stories corroborate each other. Spoken or written, those are too similar to not share a basis. And interestingly, those jive most with the Sumerian tablets.

            Zecharia Sitchin was criticized for his work with telling the story of the Sumerian tablets because he was funded by religious leaders. After sticking to the facts for decades, eventually Sitchin had to throw his benefactors a bone by saying the Anunnaki made Jews the 'chosen ones'. Some things don't change.

            Aside from that, other epigraphers and investigative researchers agree with Sitchin.

            There are also the Dead Sea Scrolls, re-shredded by Harry Hubbard's research on youtube if interested. Dead Sea Scroll believers were clearly wronged.

            So much remains to be discovered that facts are hard to come by when it comes to who wrote what when.

            Except the Sumerian tablets. Those were exceptionally vetted and deciphered. The only problem with what is said on those tablets is that does not jive well with opinions of pedagogues and organized religious writings.

            1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

              Thanks for the info Catherine, ill definitely check it out in time. Truly, thanks.

              The Bible doesn't actually set an age of the earth or man contrary to popular belief. Not pre flood or post flood. In fact the Bible can support civilized man at 100k years+ if we want it to even older would still agree with the document, which tend to think we are.

              We just don't know, not the most faithful Christian or studied atheist, we just don't know very much about us or how we got here. Truth be told, there are just as many holes in evolution as there are with creation, both require faith at the end of the line.

              The Bible stand out to me because it so precisely knows the nature of Man that it was either divinely inspired or mankind is old beyond our imagination and ability to prove.

              1. Catherine's Avatar Catherine

                @ServantOfJudgement

                I could not agree more.

                For the first point, are two examples among others. What bibles and religious writings decided to do with time creates ambiguities.

                https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S163107131730072X

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_the_Bible

                Second, I think the bible is able to describe the nature of man because men wrote the bible.

                However, who better than the Anunnaki to know the nature of men? The Sumerian tablets described genetic experiments with Anunnaki DNA and earth critters resulting in the creation of man. Maybe those experiments involved what we call homosexuality as part of their experiements because the Anunnaki wanted to control humans to mine for them.

                They were said to have been frustrated by humans' enjoyment of sex when humans were intended to reproduce only so Anunnaki wouldn't have to keep making humans. Supposedly they aimed for work animals. Best attempts produced humans. Ultimately their attempt to genetically create miners went sideways.

                A fun read is Robert Morning Sky's 'Terra Papers'

                https://ia904508.us.archive.org/24/items/the-terra-papers-by-robert-morning-sky/The%20Terra%20Papers%20by%20Robert%20Morning%20Sky.pdf

                It reads like Star Wars Meets Battle Star Galactica meets Star Trek meets..., etcetera, with long lines of biblical-like begats that later lead to explanations about infighting between Dogons and Anunnaki. Even has a deathstarship. Fun read even if it were all fiction.

                Also, Robert Morning Sky has been targeted with all manner of negativity. I don't know the truth of those. It's also been said he added his 'grandfather's vision story' to personalize his thesis. I wouldn't know.

                Do know he obtained a 5-year degree in religious studies. 'The Terra Papers' was his thesis.

                That aside, I've read most of Sitchin's books, seen a couple old interviews with Sitchin, and yeah, what Robert Morning Sky writes in the 'Terra Papers' (excluding the grandfather's vision), is a condensed compilation of Sitchin's Earth Chronicles.

                Harry Hubbard and Paul Schaffanke, near the end of their Dead Sea Scrolls youtube presentation, describe Morning Sky's epigraphy as the most reliable they'd seen. That kind of compliment by Hubbard and Schaffranke is rare. They tend more toward taking apart research with multiple shots to the heart :)

                Didn't mean to go on and on. It's just that finding good information is so difficult. What works for me is finding the center, where opposing sides agree on facts.

      2. Lori-Ann Neeb's Avatar Lori-Ann Neeb

        History has proven thr bible inaccurate in many places. That is because it was published by a corrupt church with its own agenda to control and manipulate the people through fear. So find some other source and try to prove that.

  1. Leland L. Fuller's Avatar Leland L. Fuller

    I thought this is a non-denominational religious organization, and as such we are all care takers of our brothers and sisters, regardless of religious beliefs and I would think, political beliefs. I personally thought the story was interesting and worth the read, I make no judgements on the author, this is still the (or should be) the land of free speech and thought. I can form my own opinion as to whether I like or disagree with something or someones opinion, but I never call them out or label them. My life's job is to not find fault with a person that I may not agree with, but to still stand by that person's right to be what they are and not judge that person. Be kind to everyone, you don't have to agree but labels cause division and we are still all children of the same universe!!

    1. JL Perkins's Avatar JL Perkins

      100% on everything you wrote. If people truly cared about others as much as they do themselves, the world would be a different place.

    2. Warren Calvin Wall's Avatar Warren Calvin Wall

      The unfortunate trend today is, that for a great many people, politics are their religions. This is insanity. You can see the insanity in the political climate that currently exists. Religion is based on a solid foundation of unshakable belief and faith. Politics are built on a foundation of compromise. When political beliefs become unshakeable and uncompromising, the result can be societal failure. I think we are staring that failure in the face. Hopefully, that coming failure will be an opportunity to set things right, again. We must remember that liberty requires the regular feeding of the blood of patriots.

      1. Catherine's Avatar Catherine

        @Warren Calvin Wall

        Material wealth could be added to political gain as a focus of the new religion. One follows the other. No spirituality. No substance to encourage living well, or living at all since most of us are cannon fodder or collateral damage.

        I think the safest, most effective way to undermine insane power vampires is not feed them ourselves and children. Don't support what they need, to do what they do.

        Only when enough people stop participating in blood games for profit, can people breathe more comfortably. If we don't put ourselves out of existence or trash the world beyond livability, we'll probably be colonizing Mars or who knows where. One way or another there is room for everyone.

        Who keeps the pot of division stirred? Who misinforms and misleads? Who manipulates? Politicians aka businesspersons and religious leaders aka businesspersons.

        Essentially, too many of us are tools used by politicians and organized religions to initiate or maintain conflicts. Every individual has ability to 'stop the insanity'.

      2. Lori-Ann Neeb's Avatar Lori-Ann Neeb

        Religion and politics has been tied together by conservative brainwashed victims of a man who knew exactly the ideal victims would be. He has them convinced that if you disagree you are somehow "anti American". The truth is that he is a narcissistic person. He spotted the weakest and told them what they wanted to hear. Now they do whatever he says no matter hiw many crimes he is guilty of on his own. They will find out he doesn't give a damn about them.

    3. Mountainsage's Avatar Mountainsage

      I agree with you, Leland. My premise is God doesn’t nt make mistakes. I try to accept each person as who they are and meet them where they are. I am a bit dismayed at the hate filled rhetoric and it would be disappointing to leave this site.

    4. Michelle Mary Brandt's Avatar Michelle Mary Brandt

      I appreciate your comment! It is so disheartening to read all of the insults thrown at people just for expressing their ideas or opinions. So easy to hide behind an online platform; it scares me to think that these people would call someone a moron to their face, which they probably would, which is very sad.

      1. Lori-Ann Neeb's Avatar Lori-Ann Neeb

        It is sad. Remember that it has gone both ways. I have been called evil, heratic, blasphemer, condemned to the otherside's "hell", etc. And all that just for my gnodtic christian beliefs.

      2. Warren Calvin Wall's Avatar Warren Calvin Wall

        They wouldn't say anything to someone's face. They are cowards. Insults expressed on social media are easy and cowardly. They know that if they said it to someone's face, they might get punched in the mouth. Cowards.

        1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

          I totally dig warren. My Christian status has been safely insulted online whereas in person nobody would have the guts. Welcome to 2023. Thought I'd never ping anyone personally, they'd not have the nuts to try.

        2. Elizabeth D'Onofrio Halladay's Avatar Elizabeth D'Onofrio Halladay

          I personally have no problem saying what I feel to anyone. Just ask my friends and family. Freedom is for everyone not just those that study or follow Christianity. What I don’t understand is that if you believe in God why would you go against love for anyone or anything? If we want to survive in the U.S. we need to stop being divided or we will fall as the Roman Empire did. Saying that someone is silent when approached by someone trying to put their beliefs on them by banning just shows how so many people have their heads in the sand. Look around you people. We are not all alike even if you believe in creation. Unless you feel God only created those with like minds.Which is just plain ignorance.

  1. Fr. Matthew Arælius's Avatar Fr. Matthew Arælius

    Well, History is rife with bullet points about homosexuality. None of them lead to a downfall of ANY culture or society. Because no other society tried to control people's sexual orientation. It's not a choice. The fridge magnet doesn't choose to stick to the fridge, it is attracted and can't help being drawn to the metal composition of the structure. Gay men, gay women, bisexual people are drawn to their potential mates based on brain chemistry, reproductive needs, sense of attraction, and pheromonal structuring. Just like straight people. It has been observed throughout history that only those in power were mentioned to have these-what did religious leaders call them?-aberrations? Any reference to the common people was a generalization regarding festivals, or protests against a governing body. And it has always been those in power using constraints like "religion", "national pride", "the enemy at the gate", "the wrath of some god or another", etc. the collar or hobble the people into bending to the wishes of the elite and influencers of the day. Remember this: hard times make strong men, strong men make easy times, easy times make weak men, weak men make hard times. Today weak men and women, often with no honour and no character, are currently leading the world, and influencing our notions of morality, Very few world leaders are strong, or possess character. Opportunists clamor, bargain, or out right seize the position they have in order to take advantage of people's collective low self-esteem (the reason for every war in history) and manipulate the masses through fear or oppression. Those people I speak of are the U.S. conservative caucus and those like it around the world, or those who wish to profit from that body of bureaucrats. The large religions of the world are next: Abrahamic religions. Until every person in the world realizes the power to change things lies within each of them, nothing will change. The cycles of strong and weak, of hard and easy, will roll on, usually crushing the innocent in the process. And until that day comes to pass, WHO CARES? There is something important to be said about keeping your head down and cleaning your own house. I pursued my ordination to officiate weddings, funerals, and celebrations of life in any form. Not to abridge my convictions for a "Facebook of the cloth". Opinions are like excuses, and excuses are like *********. Everybody's got one, and it stinks. This forum should be about why we were all ordained here: weddings, funerals, baptisms, celebrations of life, helping others up when their down, sharing advice how to best execute these privileges. It shouldn't be trying to influence others into following our opinions or beliefs. Strength does not grow in this soil. It withers, and dies. Make an excuse for me, or just call me an ********, but that's MY opinion.

    1. JL Perkins's Avatar JL Perkins

      I actually liked your article and was agreeing with everything you had written until you had to go and point your finger and lay blame. Here's what you wrote, "Those people I speak of are the U.S. conservative caucus and those like it around the world, or those who wish to profit from that body of bureaucrats." Then you wrote, "Until every person in the world realizes the power to change things lies within each of them, nothing will change." I find it interesting that you take no shame in blaming, then point out that everyone is responsible for change, but you choose to "put your head down and clean your house". Sounds to me like you are doing exactly what you claimed not to be doing...Influencing others to follow your opinions. You are 100% correct when you say "Strength does not grow in this soil." It's not about you putting your hand out to help others up, That's the tip of the iceberg, it's about those who understand that lifting someone up is not seen by anyone. Only you and your maker know.

    2. Catherine's Avatar Catherine

      @Fr. Matthew Arælius

      It is not 'conservatives' alone.

      1) There are no longer definitional conservatives or liberals. Voting records, business deals, and actions bear that out.

      2) It takes more than one side to start anything.

      3) Any of us who takes a supposed conservative or liberal side contributes to personal and collective misery.

  1. Peter Schwartz's Avatar Peter Schwartz

    I think Mike Johnson needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

  1. Keith's Avatar Keith

    Speaker Mike Johnson is a typical Trump Republican. Johnson makes statements without any facts to justify his statements. Anyone who studies history or has followed historians chronicling the events that led to the fall of the Roman Empire will realize that homosexuality was not the cause of the Roman Empire's fall. There were many reasons that contributed to the fall of the Roman Empire which included corruption where influential seats in government were often sold to the highest bidder, resulting in greedy and/or inept individuals in major positions of power. This practice not only compromised the integrity of the government but also led to the appointment of many unqualified administrators. The second factor is division, The Emperor divided the Roman Empire in two in an attempt to make the Empire easier to govern. While that worked in the short term, this split eventually sowed the seeds for deep-rooted divisions that would grow over time. The third factor is economic inequality, the constant government spending on wars resulted in increased taxation and inflation on commoners, leading to massive inequality between rich and poor. The wealthy would often flee at the first sign of increased taxation, leaving their countrymen high and dry. The fourth factor is emperor turnover, roughly 20% of Roman emperors were assassinated – an astounding stat that reflects the instability and peril of the throne. This tumultuous leadership scenario was compounded by the fact that many emperors were young and inexperienced, with some being mere children thrust into roles of immense power and responsibility. The fifth and final factor is invasion by Germanic tribes. While the Roman Empire sometimes tolerated these tribes, they treated them with malice and cruelty. All of these factors – made them an easy target for invading armies. In 476 CE, the Germanic King attacked Rome and deposed the Roman Empire’s final emperor.

    Rev. Keith

    1. Catherine's Avatar Catherine

      @Keith

      What is a typical republican or liberal these days? Who is? Haven't both shifted some time ago into being mostly statists?

      stat·ist /ˈstādəst/ noun noun: statist; plural noun: statists

      an advocate of a political system in which the state has substantial centralized control over social and economic affairs. "this is one issue which unites statists of all persuasions"

      adjective adjective: statist

      relating to or characteristic of a political system in which the state has substantial centralized control over social and economic affairs. "a statist approach to healthcare"

      Politicians and organized religions have been worshipping at the altar of profit margins and central banks for how long?

      Economies across the world are regulated through conflict and profits from countries fighting each other for their resources and those of other countries. And those powers ran amuck with scorched earth strategies that scarred earth permanently in some places.

      When Prussia began to implode and areas around it looked to Prussia for leadership because their leaders had killed each other off, a different kind of vacuum was created. Prussia couldn't save itself, so set about assessing resources - natural and human - to lay groundwork for economic survival. It worked. That is the model most countries currently employ.

      What is happening now seems to be the beginning of the end of that, because imbalances created by the relentless power struggles and greed made mere economic survival no longer a viable method for countries to conquering each other. Yet all the manipulations and purposeful divisions remain because that's the cards players won't let go of in this failing game.

      Evidence and results of that can be found by researching 'human capital' in U.S. Code and the Library of Congress. Not as much is hidden from us as might be thought. It's only that most of us don't look in corners and crevices. We mostly look for what validates us. In that way, we perpetuate problems we complain about. What we can do is stop doing what hurts us.

      1. Keith's Avatar Keith

        Catherine, I agree with some of what you are saying, especially this statement “Politicians and organized religions have been worshipping at the altar of profit margins and central banks for how long?” However, I’m not sure what most of your reply has to do with my comments on the fall of the Roman Empire. I did find your statement interesting.

        Blessings, Rev. Keith

        1. Catherine's Avatar Catherine

          @Keith

          Your comment, "typical Trump Republican" was the focus of my response. While a pretense of republican and democrat, left and right remains, Trump is neither. He is a statist.

          Part of my response is an exterme oversimplification of how the United States evolved into a statist government.

          Part of my response touches on the unsustainability of what was and what is.

          I also don't understand using outdated terminology to discuss current events.

          1. Keith's Avatar Keith

            Catherine Colvin, I agree with you 100% that Trump is a statist. I agree that many manuscripts, history books, and the Bible have outdated terminology to discuss current events. The current event is that Speaker Mike Johnson blames the fall of the Roman Empire completely on homosexuality. My response was in regard to the question “Did Homosexuality cause the Fall of the Roman Empire?” My reply was No, based upon history that has outdated terminology. It would be wonderful to rewrite history with terminology of today. It would be easier for people to understand. With that said, I didn't intend for my statement to be political. It was intended to set right a false statement made by the Speaker of The House, based upon facts that are found in more than one source. I see that repeated misinterpreted or distorted facts which are basically lies become believable to some people because they want to put their trust in believing the good in people. I use to be one of those people until someone said don't take my word on what I tell you or what you have heard from others. Investigate, do you own research, your due diligence and make your own decision. I'm glad I listened because my eyes have been opened and I've learned so much. I respect your opinion but I've given my opinion based on the question asked and the information I learned from my own review.

            Blessings, Rev. Keith

          2. Keith's Avatar Keith

            Catherine Colvin, I agree with you 100% that Trump is a statist. I agree that many manuscripts, history books, and the Bible have outdated terminology to discuss current events. The current event is that Speaker Mike Johnson blames the fall of the Roman Empire completely on homosexuality. My response was in regard to the question “Did Homosexuality cause the Fall of the Roman Empire?” My reply was No, based upon history that has outdated terminology. It would be wonderful to rewrite history with terminology of today. It would be easier for people to understand. With that said, I didn't intend for my statement to be political. It was intended to set right a false statement made by the Speaker of The House, based upon facts that are found in more than one source. I see that repeated misinterpreted or distorted facts which are basically lies become believable to some people because they want to put their trust in believing the good in people. I use to be one of those people until someone said don't take my word on what I tell you or what you have heard from others. Investigate, do you own research, your due diligence and make your own decision. I'm glad I listened because my eyes have been opened and I've learned so much. I respect your opinion but I've given my opinion based on the question asked and the information I learned from my own review.

            Blessings, Rev. Keith

          3. Keith's Avatar Keith

            Catherine Colvin, I agree with you 100% that Trump is a statist. I agree that many manuscripts, history books, and the Bible have outdated terminology to discuss current events. The current event is that Speaker Mike Johnson blames the fall of the Roman Empire completely on homosexuality. My response was in regard to the question “Did Homosexuality cause the Fall of the Roman Empire?” My reply was No, based upon history that has outdated terminology. It would be wonderful to rewrite history with terminology of today. It would be easier for people to understand. With that said, I didn't intend for my statement to be political. It was intended to set right a false statement made by the Speaker of The House, based upon facts that are found in more than one source. I see that repeated misinterpreted or distorted facts which are basically lies become believable to some people because they want to put their trust in believing the good in people. I use to be one of those people until someone said don't take my word on what I tell you or what you have heard from others. Investigate, do you own research, your due diligence and make your own decision. I'm glad I listened because my eyes have been opened and I've learned so much. I respect your opinion but I've given my opinion ibased on the question asked and the information I learned from my own review.

            Blessings, Rev. Keith

  1. JL Perkins's Avatar JL Perkins

    So I find all of these answers and comments interesting, but the most obvious thing about all of this... People always want to blame someone or something. How about one word. One word so destructive that it has and will destroy everything, and then even turn on itself. GREED. Greed is destroying the very planet we all live on. The only two things I know every single person believes and agrees upon... we are all born and we will all die. What you do with the in between is up to you.

    1. Warren Calvin Wall's Avatar Warren Calvin Wall

      People seem to reject the fact that, in a democratic form of government (yes, I do surely know that the U.S. is a constitutional representative republic which is indeed a form of democracy), the government directly reflects its constituencies. When you look at the nonsense that is happening in our government today, you are looking in the mirror. Yes, it is YOUR fault we are in the **** show that us going on. It's on YOU. YOU voted and elected these fools. The vast majority of voters today cast their votes in complete and total ignorance. It's time that EVERYONE takes responsibility for the damage that we have done to our nation.

      1. Catherine's Avatar Catherine

        @Warren Calvin Wall

        I agree with the exception that our voting system is dysfunctional.

        What follows is detailed to show how we shoot ourselves in the foot when we conflate a person (or party) with a cause.

        'Black Box Voting: Ballot Tampering in the 21st Century' is an excellent read that provides insights into our voting systems. It can be downloaded free so don't pay for it. David Allen had not intended the book be sold. It was meant to be by and for the people. Harris provides (or used to?) the book in downloadable chapters.

        It includes fascinating early voting machine history through 2004-ish. I organized people and built a database to hold contact information for every Clerk of the Court in the United States so FOIA requests could be sent. Took about a dozen people almost a month to complete. Later it was discovered Harris did not file all the FOIA requests, so valuable time and energy by proactive, well-meaning people were tossed aside like garbage.

        Ultimately, Harris and March used volunteers to file a Qui Tam suit which none of us was aware of. Harris and March settled out of court and profited from a travesty, in my mind, because the unpublished research and data will never available to anyone.

        https://yro.slashdot.org/story/04/07/12/2351241/diebold-sued-again-over-shoddy-voting-machines

        After giving all the parties a shot, in time it became painfully obvious these scams are common. Even so, I came away with more hope for individuals who turn things around through personal every day actions. We can choose differently for the better every day.

  1. Dent L. Sweem's Avatar Dent L. Sweem

    The Roman empire fell because they sold citizenship and because the weathier "Citizens" cheated on their taxes. Homosexuality had nothing to do with the financial down fall thereof.

  1. Craig Schumacher's Avatar Craig Schumacher

    I do love the frieze as a header to the story. And yes mike is dangerous. But what a surprise the GOP gets behind another dangerous politician. PK

  1. John Robert Peters's Avatar John Robert Peters

    Well Mike and poster ServantOfJudgement (is that by appointment or fiat?), the US does meet the bullet points pretty well. We don't need the frequent assassinations since our electoral system is sufficient to ensure there is no consistent leadership at any level of government. That, of course, includes the government appointees who, like in Rome, are more interested in their own wealth and power than the agency's responsibility. Wealthy US citizens are also fleeing to avoid taxation if not by moving than by shifting their wealth overseas and using lawyers to avoid taxes. Economic inequality is pretty obvious with homelessness, starvation, families needing to have both parents working more than one job to make ends meet. We haven't officially divided into 2 nations yet, but practically speaking the divide that is most important, psychological, cultural, and social, is pretty well established. None of this has anything to do with LGBTQ but everything to do with intolerant, inflexible, and surprisingly ignorant orthodoxies. I don't finger Christians like MIke or even ServantOfJudgement with blame here. There is plenty of ignorance, inflexibility, and intolerance in any orthodox religion. Most of them preach LOVE and INCLUSION while practicing manipulation, misogyny, abuse of power, and focus on the collection plate. Pretty depressing overall.

    1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

      John,

      My avatar name is the meaning of my actual name. Actually my full name means Precious and Gracious Servant of Judgement, or variations of that. It's my name by chance, my parents weren't Christian I don't think but they may have been.

      I'm misunderstood here and mostly everywhere. I don't attend churches, in part for reason you list. Other reasons are my own. I've hired gay people before it was cool to do that sort of thing. I don't have any personal issues with gay people. I got into a pillow fight with a gay guy in a hotel room with my wife on the phone, she heard it all. You can take all that or leave it.

      When I make statements about issues they're biblical statements, which nobody has to believe as truth. I'm just saying what the Bible says. This is a religious blog after all.

      You're right on most of what you've said, virtually all of it. While we don't match rome identically but we're close enough to count. We use the media for character assassination along with actual attempts of political assassinations, there have been many in my lifetime. Truth changes daily. The drugs, homelessness all the things you've said. We're in trouble.

      Use what you've noticed with your own eyes to gather enough food and water to protect your loved ones long enough to form a plan if we fall as it appears we may.
      God appoints watchmen for the things you've seen and said. As in the bible, the watchmen are rarely listened to. Protect all you can, especially your own.

      1. Amber Fry's Avatar Amber Fry

        The bible is only one book of one religion though. This is not strictly a Christian site but a multi religious site. Pushing one religion above all is one of the bigger problems here as it takes attention off those things you say we are in trouble with. So, focus more on the treatment of others and dealing with the actual issues.

        As for God appointing watchmen... no, not really. People appoint watchmen in God's name based on what they think God wants. The whole of the bible is written by men based on their idea of what God wants. That's also a large part of the problem with religions. They each claim it's God's way and if that is true then God is the biggest divider of them all. However I'm more inclined to believe it has more to do with men's prideful vision of being God's chosen rather than just treating people respectfully.

        1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

          Amber I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not saying God appoints watchmen strictly for God stuff. He gives some an insight or attention to detail others may not have. Consider this: My father was born in 1921 and became homeless and starved during the great depression. He made it clear to all of his children to be prepared for the bottom to drop out overnight. "You better be able to feed your family, it could all be gone when you wake up tomorrow". Not all my siblings bought in. Some did. I did. I'm not a prepper but I can feed my family and a couple of my neighbors families. I'm watching for the danger that's on our porch. Not talking about end times, Jesus returning or anything like that. Could happen but I'm not saying that.

          You personally will either say I'm right to prepare to help myself and others (yes, even gay folk) or I'm a fool. You'll either take the same steps to a different degree or you won't. You're a watchmen or your not. That's what I mean.

          By the way, you should gather enough food and water for a couple weeks just in case. It's getting weird outside.

  1. James George King's Avatar James George King

    The ULC and theocracy are not compatible. Mike Johnson, and many other extreme-Christians, advocate that the United States was founded as a Christian (i.e. religious) nation, a theocracy. Therefore, the nation’s legal system should be based on (his or their) Christian values. Such thinking (and subsequent behavior) is emotional, not logical. It cannot be refuted by logic. A theocracy is dangerous to non-believers.

    A tenant of the ULC is tolerance. Theocracy is intolerant. While a theocracy may permit other theological beliefs, it does not permit theologically-aberrant behavior. Those who exhibit “aberrant” behavior in: reproduction, or servitude, or worship, or being LGBTQ+, etc. will be legally punished.

    Mike Johnson and those whom he typifies make it clear that for them religious tolerance extends only (if barely) to belief, not to practice. Mike Johnson, and others, intend to impose extreme-Christian doctrine on all United States residents by means of the legal system with legislation and appointment of like-minded judges.

    ULC beware.

    1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

      The USA and all other civilized nations employ the same basic laws the bible demanded of the Israelites. They all do, there aren't any exceptions.
      The extreme christians are actually quite normal when measured against secular regulations and those that created them. In fact, the extremists are our modern populace. For example, the bible lists a handful of laws concerning clothing whereas the USA has over 27,000 pages of laws concerning clothing. You seem fine with that over the biblical clothing laws. Don't get me started on your extreme dietary laws, they're quite maddening ya know.

      I dare say James, you are the extremist.

      1. James George King's Avatar James George King

        Comment removed by user.

        1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

          Well said!

          1. James George King's Avatar James George King

            Tsk, tsk…you argue against the person (argumentum ad hominem) instead of against the premises that theocracies are intolerant and that Mike Johnson advocates that the United States is (or should be) a theocracy.

            Similarity of laws with other countries has nothing to do with each premise. “The devil is in the details.”

            As for your example, you seem to espouse a biblical simplicity (Deuteronomy) fabric should not be woven of different material (i.e., no blends), verses modern complex regulations such as children’s sleep wear (16 CFR 1615 and 1616) should be fire retardant. What has that to do with the issues regarding legal protections, rights, and freedoms or liberties of women, children, workers, minorities, LGBTQ+ persons, native Americans, naturalized citizens, immigrants, or other legal classes? Depending upon the interpreter, I dare say a strict biblical interpretation of such issues, or their analogs, would not be tolerant.

  1. Amber Fry's Avatar Amber Fry

    Oye... no... greed and poor economic practices was it's downfall. Lavish lifestyles of the wealthy while everyone else suffered was it's downfall. Focusing too much on the little things while ignoring the crushing weight of the big things was it's downfall.

  1. Mark Hannon's Avatar Mark Hannon

    Evangelical Republicans bristle at being compared to Nazi's but it is a historical fact that Hitler used portions of the bible to inter homosexuals in concentration camps along with Jews and political opponents.

  1. Michael G Woram's Avatar Michael G Woram

    The idea that homosexuality destroyed Rome is pretty absurd considering that homosexuality was not some new thing that arouse in the fifth century. But maybe a little history will be interesting. All of the things listed above as causes for the fall of Rome, had existed on and off since the earliest Roman Regal Period when Rome was ruled by kings before the creation of the Roman Republic. Eventually the kings gave way to the Republic which, in turn gave way to the Empire. The primary reason that the Roman empire lasted as long as it did was its insistence on inclusion of all people under its jurisdiction. Once your were conquered by Rome, you were a Roman with all the rights and responsibilities that went with it. Many emperors were born outside of Italy (Trajan was born in Spain) and Senators were elected from all over the empire. Emperors rose and fell and each time an emperor was overthrown, the new emperor considered himself to be just that: Emperor of Rome. A large number of Germanic tribes living inside the empire also considered themselves to be Romans and even bragged that their Germanic blood would revitalize the empire. But their habits tended to gross out the rest of Romans and for the first time, an actual apartheid system rose up inside the empire with the Germanic people on the short end of it. Needless to say, they didn't like it very much. So when tribes from outside the empire invaded, the inside Germans joined them and the result was the defeat of Rome's forces. But this time the new ruler did not consider himself to be the new Roman Emperor, he ruled as a Germanic king and that was the end. Had they stuck with their principles, the Romans might have hung on a lot longer and maybe Germanic blood really would have revitalized the empire.

  1. Danny D. Maynard's Avatar Danny D. Maynard

    Even the Book of Leviticus proves we have been around for at least 4,000 years. What everyone does not understand is that the mixing of the genes in our chromosomes is bound to create all sorts of interesting people, of all sorts of interesting persuasions, all sorts of interesting mental states, all sorts of physical capabilities, all sorts of emotional states and all sorts of sexualities! That is basic Biology, Chemistry, Genetics and Epigenetics.

    Who can say definitively whether we are one kind of person or another ... or not? Certainly not any person dead or alive, alive now or in the future! The workings of meiosis process (the splitting of the genes and mixing/re-joining of the genes in our DNA) that happens in each human with reproductive capabilities cannot be predicted with any degree of certainty.

  1. Lisa Anne Carmichael's Avatar Lisa Anne Carmichael

    Thank you, Rev. Mark. Not even three sentences into the read, I thought, "Huh, I thought it was the lead pipes". Yep. I'm sticking with Lead Pipes, however they were used.

  1. Kirk England's Avatar Kirk England

    Caligula and a couple other’s whose names I have forgotten. Most of the posters on this page have also forgotten them. I don’t trust the new speaker just like I didn’t trust the last one who claimed to be Catholic when it was politically convenient, but consistently voted against her Catholic faith. I think we’ll see the same from the new guy since he is a member of the uniparty that thrives on greed. Biden isn’t the only politician that receives money illicitly from front companies, LLCs and charitable organizations. He was the only one dumb enough to give some control to his cokehead son who let the cat out of the bag. Hunter proved that the swamp Trump referred to exists and exposed why republicans stabbed Trump in the back. Homosexuality in Roman society was a physical form of domination according to the use in the article of the term “penetrative”. The alphabet community’s preferential status over the majority heterosexual population shows dominance in the political sphere today. This dominance is a ghost since it is just a tool in the uniparty’s toolbox to divide and conquer the whole. There are many negative similarities between the Roman Empire and America today. Corruption of the “leadership” by greed for money and power is the primary problem we face today, just like the Romans did back in their day.

  1. Tom Herman's Avatar Tom Herman

    The article was informative and relevant for our times. Speaker Johnson needs to learn to be open to all people, regardless of who they love. As Speaker of the House he is third in line to the Presidency. A President needs to fight for and represent all Americans.

  1. Paul E. Albert's Avatar Paul E. Albert

    I don't think we are here to judge Mike Johnson or anyone else. We should judge ourselves and do unto others as we would like them to do to us. People who do no want others to judge them should not be judgmental of others.

    1. Catherine's Avatar Catherine

      @Paul E. Albert

      If Mike Johnson were only a next door neighbor representing himself, not Speaker of the House third in line to be President, I could agree without contention.

      To be an objective representative of millions of people, someone who could become President needs to be as bereft as possible of extreme idiosyncrasies. Given the weirdness of Johnson's actions with his son, I have zero confidence that Johnson could objectively represent a majority of Americans.

  1. Liliana Janeatte Vasquez's Avatar Liliana Janeatte Vasquez

    The stupidity of all of us. The Roman Empire even if it was managed to perfection would have eventually gone by the wayside. EVERYTHING DIES EVENTUALLY. How dumb are we that we just don't accept this fact

    1. Amber Fry's Avatar Amber Fry

      That isn't the fact people are missing. Everyone knows that. The issue is how and why. Since we are all going to die eventually, since all civilisations fall eventually, shouldn't we choose more carefully in what ways? Shouldn't we be trying to at least help each other through instead of tearing each other down and rushing headlong to a less favorable end? What's wrong with helping people live better until that end? We don't have to like or agree with what other's lives are but as longa s they are not hurting anyone else then why do we have to condemn or control it, or worse, savatage it?

  1. Russell J Macomber Jr's Avatar Russell J Macomber Jr

    The fall of the Roman Empire started after Augustus was assassinated by his wife. She did it so her son would become emperor that being Tiberius, and he was a pervert and molesting children and then, alas, Caligula and I won’t get into him.

  1. James Marvin Tofte's Avatar James Marvin Tofte

    Ok, I am not some historical guru...but the biblical based community certain behaviors while ignoring others. In Biblical instances of "godly punishment" ie...The Flood of Noah, and Sodom and Gommorah, It was not one thing that brought about the God's judgement. In both instances, it was just rampant disregard for anything that went against a person's personal level of depravity. People did what ever, when ever they wanted, regardless of it's impact on others. The same goes for Rome...In all ways, it was in a state of deploration, (Not even sure if that is a legit word). Anything went...If it felt good...it was deemed appropriate to do. It didn't matter. There is a portion of scripture that bible thumpers use to condemn people who participate in any form of alternative lifestyle...lets put it that way. But if you look at that scripture, there are lots of things that are in the same list that are "acceptable" in the same group of people. Hatred, condemnation, judgementalism, Disobedient to parents, gossips, talebearers, cheats, liars, etc... As far as God is concerned...the person who steals a piece of gum from the gas station, is just as guilty of death as a person who does something that humans consider tragic. We tend to accept people whose sins do not exceed our own. We all have our personal list of "acceptable sins". But are quick to condemn those who do things we don't accept. Hope this makes sense... Have a good one

  1. Rev. B.D. Rees's Avatar Rev. B.D. Rees

    NO... That's it in a nutshell...
    Homosexuals have been blamed for everything from the fall of the Roman Empire, to the creation of the Pandemic! Mr. Johnson when voted in as Speaker of the House of Representatives ceased to have a personal opinion... In this I mean that he is now in a position for ALL OF THE PEOPLE... Let me say that again... He is the Speaker of the House in OUR GOVERNMENT therefore he represents a SECULAR government and ceases to have a Religious opinion in the Political Arena, now, that is the way it is supposed to work. Unfortunately, Mr. Johnson has decided to NOT REPRESENT ALL OF THE PEOPLE. Instead, he seems to be representing the RELIGIOUS FAR RIGHT!! For my money he is protesting the Homosexual far too much, which makes me think as a Gay man he has a dark past and a secret present...

  1. Charles Thomas Norkus's Avatar Charles Thomas Norkus

    Two things: 1. The greatest warriors of antiquity, the Spartans, were part of the Greek culture of their time (highpoint 500-400BC) and so we’re accepting of bisexuals and homosexuals among their ranks (documented). They were defeated in 371BC by an army led by 300 Theban warriors known as The Sacred Band, comprised of 150 pairs of lovers (the Battle of Leuctra). 2. I get so tired of people expressing the DaVinciCodian fallacy as fact that the New Testament did not exist unti Constantine and that Christianity was not widespread until Constantine. TONS of scholarly evidence to the contrary. Just a couple of supporting points: 1. check out the Early Church Fathers, i.e. the writings of those who knew the apostles or subsequently those who had been taught by the apostles, etc., writings from c. AD 90-400. You will find strongly rooted churches in Jerusalem, Antioch, Rome, Alexandria, Lyons (modern France), and elsewhere, most places across the Roman Empire. 2. There was some confusion by the time of Constantine concerning some of the writings that were to be considered part of the official “canon” of the NT, but for the most part, the churches all across the Empire had all accepted the four gospels, Acts, Paul’s letters, and a few others as legit. As just one piece of evidence, a Christian heretic Marcion (c.AD 124), in one of his arguments, listed all of those writings as accepted. A lot more could be said about either point, but l just wanted to put it out there for what it’s worth. 1. Homosexuals are just as capable as anyone of running or ruining an army, a government, or anything else. 2. Even with the local and imperial persecution of believers and the ordered destruction of Christian writings, Christianity was thriving long before Constantine.

    1. Russel A. Kester's Avatar Russel A. Kester

      Good, scholarly written comment. I enjoyed reading it. Thank you.

  1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

    Those bullet points could be taken straight from the old testament describing a nation God would judge and destroy. Adding culturally encouraged homosexual relationships also plugs right in. Secular historians are not permitted to add the latter to the bullet points whereas the bible has no such restriction.

    In other news, USA fits those bulletpoints flawlessly including the LGBTQIA2++ indoctrination our youth is receiving.

    Smoke'em if ya got'em folks.

    1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

      So what evidence do you have to support the claim that homosexuality caused the fall of Rome? It seems much more likely that historians (you know, people who have made their careers researching the past) have uncovered no evidence to support that claim compared to thinking they're "not permitted" to include it. There's plenty of non-secular historians out there too who could find such evidence and yet the historical consensus is that homosexuality did not contribute to the fall of Rome.

      The corruption, division, and economic inequality certainly describes the United States today though, often caused by the same people who hate homosexuals.

      1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

        Michael,

        My evidence depends on whether you believe the bible is the word of God or not.
        If you do believe that's the case, the bible lists homosexual relationships as one of the conditions that can bring judgment but not a requirement. Usually that's just one of many reasons God lists. Terrible treatment of women and wives is another for example. It usually takes a stack of offensives for God to destroy a nation, rarely a singular cause. Sodom is the only documented city/state to be destroyed for the specific reason of sodomy. Apparently it was so prevalent that the very act of sodomy is named after the now obliterated city, even to this day.

        If you don't believe the bible is the word of God then my evidence shifts to a mere observation albeit a reliable one. All civilizations in history that socially promoted homosexual relationships have been destroyed. Well, that is except ours, we have yet to become history. On that subject, get food and water enough for two weeks.

    2. Craig Schumacher's Avatar Craig Schumacher

      Well I definitely see some issues we have today in America that correlate with Rome, but only the obvious and logical we’re contributing to that”fall” : Corruption Economy Wars Love to see this indoctrination you speak of. ( religion is a form of indoctrination ) PK

    3. Liliana Janeatte Vasquez's Avatar Liliana Janeatte Vasquez

      The old testament is nothing more than a book created by men. There is no spirituality and very little if any truth. If anything its merely an extension of the followers of the ancient Egyptian god of war....to use any of these books as some sort of factual stuff is more or less your own admission to being an IDOL WORSHIPPER.

      1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

        Liliana Jesus quoted the old testament again and again over and over. It's jam packed with spiritual advice and instruction. Jam packed.

        The places of the old testament have been dug up and studied by archaeologists from all walks of life. Other than the miracles of the old testament, the rest is easy to prove after Egypt.

        If the God of the old testament does not exist there is no such thing as idol worship.

  1. Janis Carol Sommers's Avatar Janis Carol Sommers

    Why am I even commenting on the idiocy of this statement? Because, the Governemnt, OUR Government is full of Idiots who make laws. I have to separate my beliefs from the current politics even though I am not a church. Why is this even on this site? Janis Sommers

  1. Richard Faust's Avatar Richard Faust

    The diseases ( physical, mental, and spiritual) associated with that lifestyle where a contributing factor. Plus they did not listen to the face to face warning that Jesus gave them and the rest of the world.

    1. Liliana Janeatte Vasquez's Avatar Liliana Janeatte Vasquez

      And what warning was that exactly?

    2. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Did you read that in a book somewhere, Sir Daniel, penned by someone that never met him, assuming he was real?

      🦁♥️

      1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

        I tried deleting this post 👆, twice, being as its in error. I guess the delete function doesn’t work. Perhaps a moderator can do it. 🤗

        🦁❤️

    3. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Did you read that in a book somewhere, Sir Richard, penned by someone that never met him, assuming he was real?

      🦁♥️

  1. James Marvin Tofte's Avatar James Marvin Tofte

    Just one more comment.... A government is destroyed by it's culture. The great Roman Empire was destroyed by the culture of it's people. The flood of Noah was as a result of the culture of the people. Sodom was destroyed because of the culture it embraced.

    Question: What is the culture that you embrace?

  1. Valerie Zenobia Haughton's Avatar Valerie Zenobia Haughton

    Darwin's book is the origin of the species and the preservation of the favorite races. His book was not a scientific book but a book to prove that certain races were inferior to others. The beginning of eugenics.

    1. John Robert Peters's Avatar John Robert Peters

      You have a serious lack of understanding of Darwin, Wallace, and the Theory of Evolution. I tend to doubt that you understand science and the scientific method.

      Evolution was developed as a theory after extensive observations, consideration of evidence and data, and, for Darwin, considerable soul searching as he understood the theory would be condemned by the good Christians who would insist that humans were created in the image of some god and all derived from a primal couple in which the female was formed from the rib of the male. Subsequently his theory was bastardized by the likes of Hitler and Lorenz to be used in a eugenic attempt to breed back to the origins to create a master race.

      Today, right wingnuts are still insisting that the earth is only about 6000 years old, that humans are created by god as they are today and did not evolve from any proto-ape like being, that some races are inferior because of skin color and cultural differences, and that the myth of world wide destruction by flood with only Noah and his family surviving are all real. It is the Bible, not Darwin, that insists there is a Chosen Race and a rather tortuous twist of sophistry that allows Christians to insist they inherited the mantel of Chosen because the Hebrews denied a mythic Messiah.

  1. Russel A. Kester's Avatar Russel A. Kester

    Good article. It was fair and informative. Thank you.

  1. Quinn R Amaro's Avatar Quinn R Amaro

    Let us look at reality. The destruction of the Roman Empire did not come because if homosexuality. The destruction came from the Me Me Me corrupt government just like what is happening now in the USA.

  1. Peter Senderowitz's Avatar Peter Senderowitz

    U.S.A., the New Rome : rule by cliques and cabals, rampant corruption, severe class divisions, the disappearance of any moral compase and extreme atomization of civil society!? Where is the human agent-party, organization, audacious minority - to organize for profound change in society?

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