Would God support rights for transgender youth? That's the question clergy members in some states are trying to tackle.
Meanwhile, those with trans kids of their own feel like they're backed up against a wall.
Gender-affirming care for minors has been a major source of controversy in this debate. One side argues that medically transitioning a child to their preferred gender is child abuse, and the other side insists that not medically transitioning a child to their preferred gender is child abuse.
More than half of U.S. states have proposed bills in some way restricting gender-affirming care for minors, and five so far have passed bills doing just that. Some states – Texas, Missouri, Oklahoma – have introduced upwards of 20 bills which in some way restrict the rights of trans people this year.
In some communities, local clergy say they want to protect children from overzealous parents and doctors by legally preventing trans youth from transitioning until they reach 18 years of age.
But clergy members with trans children are seeing firsthand the effect these bills are having on their kids, and they're sounding the alarm.
A War on Children?
“Our state is at war with our family,” says Rabbi Daniel Bogard of Missouri. “It’s not an exaggeration that we are up at night talking about when and how far we might have to flee.”
Bogard has a nine-year-old transgender son, and says he fears for his son’s future.
He also views the anti-trans movement as an unjust intrusion of religion into the public sphere. “It’s the imposition of one religious group’s gender norms on the rest of us. It’s theocracy and fascism,” argues Bogard.
He’s referring to the myriad anti-trans bills making their way through the Missouri legislature, 32 and counting just this year by the ACLU’s count.
While bills restricting trans athletes from competing in school to bills restricting LGBTQ-focused books in schools are common, the bills that the Bogards and other parents of trans children particularly fear are ones which would prevent gender-affirming care for trans youth.
They say they’d be forced to leave Missouri if such a bill passed, believing it to be nothing less than an attack on their son’s life.
Changing Minds
But state lawmakers passing these bills say they’re doing it to protect children, and that God is on their side.
Proponents of restricting gender-affirming care argue that transgender children will have every right to medically transition… when they’re 18.
“I am a man of faith and I am a Christian, and I believe the Lord gives us free will,” explained MO. state Rep Justin Sparks in a legislative session. “And when you are above the age of 18, you will have free will.”
Others argue that transgender identity itself is an affront to their religious freedom, however.
Fighting for the Right
In Missouri, clergy members with trans children like Daniel Board are traveling to the state capital to make their case, using the one weapon they believe they have in this fight: empathy.
“We want them to see the cost of what they are doing to families like ours,” says Bogard.
As Rabbi Picker Neiss, parent to another trans child says, “I don’t think God lives in binary. I think everything in our world has so much room for complexity and multiplicity.”
These clergy members hope to provide another perspective to state lawmakers – many of them religious. By using their own status as faith leaders, they hope to reach hearts and minds.
What Comes Next?
Both sides of this debate say they only want to protect children. The problem is, they disagree strongly on what that word means.
We're seeing two different groups approaching the issue from a faith perspective, and yet their opinions could not be further apart.
What is your reaction – do you foresee a resolution to these complicated questions? What is the best way forward?
123 comments
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James Riggle-Johnson
Isn’t it up to the parents to choose what is best for their child? On one hand, these legislators say they stand for parental rights, while on the other hand, they take those parental rights away. What they really mean is you have the right to do only what we say is right for your child. It’s also not about religious freedom. It’s about the freedom to abide by their religious beliefs only. Anything else is wrong.
Doctors, parents and their children are not going through transition surgery, they are going on puberty blockers which are reversible. Lawmakers are trying to make people believe that hundreds of thousands of kids are going on these medications each year while the reality is only about 5 – 10 thousand per year. It’s something considered very carefully by physicians, psychologists, parents, and the child. Also, as an adult, you are required to live as the gender you want to transition to for years before the surgery is done. You don’t just make an appointment with a surgeon and head to the operating room. There is a careful evaluation to make sure the person understands what they are about to do.
This is government and religious overreach.
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Joe
When Christians don’t like something, they add it to their it’s against my religious beliefs or view. Those same Christians can be seen at school hearings cursing or threatening to kill others whom don’t agree with their agenda.
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Michael Hunt
Trans rights are human rights! Gender affirming care is shown to be the most effective way to improve the lives and mental health of transgender persons and it's important to start such care before the age of 18 because it becomes more difficult to transition once someone has already gone through puberty.
These bills being passed are intended to deny the existence and validity of the transgender community and it's absolutely appalling that some people have such hate in their hearts against someone who doesn't fit into their narrow worldview.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Christianity is a hate group. They claim "Love your neighbor", but they've twisted that to "Love your straight, white, republican neighbor".
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Bryan Ayala
Amen! Affirming isn’t “loving” you’re lying to your own child. GOD is perfect and He never makes mistakes.
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Katelynne Shouse
Hahahahahaha, they say ignorance is bliss.......you and your kind must be the most blissful fools in the world!
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David A Foreman
AMEN!
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Rachael Evans
As someone who is intersex, I live the gender-variant discussion daily, I'd like to share my own thoughts.
First, a Eunuch is not someone who is intersex. A eunuch is a male who has been castrated and who then historically, played a specific role in society such as guarding a hareem. We can trace the existence of Eunuchs back to the Sumerian city of Lagash in the 2nd millennium BCE. The concept has been around so much longer than the New Testament for example.
To be intersex is to be born with a variation in one's sexual and/ or reproductive organs. It's a natural variation that is said, in its various forms, to impact approximately 1.7% of the general populace. Some intersex individuals, such as I, were born with both male and female reproductive organs and an overtly male physique and deep voice. This required medical intervention later in life. However, for most of my life, I hid as a male as it seemed to suit my appearance (but not my gender) because society forced its black or what definitions upon society. Therefore, some intersex individuals are both intersex and Transgender if we wish to use labels. But my DNA is female, I attend women's health clinics, undergo breast scans, and so forth.
The proposed bill in Florida states that a female is medically aligned to give birth and yet, many of us, for various reasons, are not able to carry children. It's a naive definition that ignores all medical science and instead leans on religious dogma and interpretation. Not science.
As to what is therefore transgender. One can be intersex and transgender and therefore, some transgender individuals are also intersex. For individuals such as myself, we underwent a medical diagnosis before being identified as intersex. We have measurable characteristics. For many, many years we did not, it's a recent change in medical science. The same, with time, may yet be true for transgender individuals. If one's reproductive organs can differ, why not one's gender?
If you disagree with intersex, you are disagreeing with all medical variations from what is defined as typical. Do wish the same harm to become disabled children, redheads, those with green or blue eyes, a cleft palate, the left-handed, ill-will because they are different from you?
If you disagree with the idea of medical variation between individuals, I ask you, in your churches, to ask everyone to hold up their right index finger. Then, try and find a matching pair. When you can't do this, reach out to other churches, locally, regionally, nationally, and even internationally. You'll find that fingerprints are our own unique illustration that each of us is born different from one another. We all medically vary in at least one way that is measurable.
If respectfully, there is a god, I will leave that to everyone to decide for themselves, then they have created each of us in a unique, individual way. Surely, if you believe in a deity, is it not possible that only they can be perfectly formed? Or do you believe that you are also perfect?
So, is it time to change one's perspective and maybe consider that we are all wonderfully unique?
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
Those who want to know, know. Unfortunately, many do not want to know - and it seems do not want anybody else to know either. This is willful ignorance, because science - REAL science - knows.
https://www.nature.com/articles/518288a
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Colleen McAllister
This is such an emotional and knee-jerk issue. Biblically they did not have the ability to do anything to help those who were born with feelings and emotions that did not match the physical body. We now have ways to help thru hormonal therapy, psychological counseling, and gender reassignment surgery.
The Bible does not address this issue but it did occur. We need to use logic and medical knowledge to help us make decisions. And it is the child and their parents who should have final say. As with abortion lawmakers need to stay out of this one.
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Stephanie A Willey
Mathew 19 : 12
For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs (right here for eunuch, read transgender) for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.If you believe God creates life in the womb, then God makes transgender children. Who are you to demean Gods creations and work?
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David Cox
The bible does address it in Roman's 1
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Lionheart
Who really cares what those authors said. Some seem to be stoned out of their mind. Some still believe (with no evidence) a woman was really turned to a pillar of salt, and a man, (still not proven to exist), really parted the Red Sea, and a man walked on water.
It’s amazing isn’t it what some people believe to be true when they read things. There are even some that believe that Elvis isn’t really dead because they’ve read it somewhere. Crazy….right 🤷🏼
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ServantOfJudgement
Actually scientists discovered a asteroid that exploded over Sadom & Gomorrah. They say this is the reason the cities were destroyed, not God. Interestingly, the scientists say the heat was so intense it instantly crystallized living things. Amazing! Athiest scientists proved the biblical accout of the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah., including living things getting turned into salt.
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Lionheart
Your scientific claims are where? Can you lead us to where you’re reading this?
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ServantOfJudgement
It's 2023, search it yourself if you actually want the truth. Search asteroid explodes over ancient middle east. Tons of stories and scientific experts revelations.
Many many accounts from the Bible have been uncovered by archeological digs. They keep finding more and more. It happened Lionheart.-
Lionheart
No wonder I couldn't find it, you were referring to a meteor, not an asteroid. That incident took out over 200 square miles and wiped out a huge part of civilization in that area. It wasn't just a small single place like Sodom and Gomorah, as you might like to think it was. 200 square miles is a huge area. There is no scientific evidence anyone got turned into salt.
There have been even larger incidents of meteors on the earths surface since its creation. Fortunately, not as many as on the moon. All debris that gets pulled into the earth due to its gravitational force, either burn out before hitting land, or actually do damage. It's not an uncommon occurrence.
The largest to possibly have hit the earth was over 66 million years ago that is being suggested could have been the event that wiped out Dinosaurs.
We know many places listed in the Bible were real, which is hardly surprising being as the authors lived there 🤷🏼 There's still no archaeological evidence though that Moses, or even Abraham, were real.
🦁♥️
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Angela D.T. Blackthorne
Katelynne Shouse, I'm surprised that someone so against bigotry and concerned with tolerance as yourself is unaware that the word "moron" is pejorative and fell from acceptable usage decades ago because of its use as hate speech against intellectually disabled people.
I'm constantly amazed at the level of vitriol in diatribes like this. Why is it that people think anyone who disagrees with them can rightly be subjected to treatment as sub-humans?
Whatever your beliefs; two wrongs don't make a right. Never have, never will.
There's no evidence that proves minors or adults need to chemically or surgically transition in order to be safe or healthy. Some people never do even though they could and that is their choice.
There's no question that adults have a right to make their own choices about their transition status whatever they choose to do.
There is significant evidence that family acceptance and therapeutic intervention can alleviate mental health problems arising from gender dysphoria adequately so that children can safely reach the age of majority, and then make their own decision about when, whether, and how much of a transition they want to make as adults.
There's a significant, legitimate scientific concern that puberty blocking drugs may cause unforeseen, long-term developmental and other health consequences, and even accepting parents, are naturally concerned, and right to expect to have an option to weigh the risk for their children while they are children.
Children are not little adults. They are medically vulnerable in ways that adults are not. They are developmentally incapable of formulating consent in every aspect because they have not developed a pre-frontal cortex rendering them incapable of attaining the level of judgement and foresight they may achieve as adults. That's the reason we require minors to have adult guardians. It's the reason they can't enter contracts or be held responsible, in most cases, for crimes.
We don't actually know what the long term effects of medically transitioning prepubescent children may be.
Unlike adults, treating children with puberty blockers and transition hormones is at this point very much experimental treatment. We know that puberty hormones play a role in brain development and it's possible these drugs could interfere with brain development as well as altering physical development. That is not a risk many parents are willing to take. American law doesn't allow any other form of experimental medical treatment on minors without parental consent. You may not share the concerns of parents but that isn't adequate justification for interference with parental rights, nor does anything excuse your vicious denigration of anyone who disagrees with you in this controversy. We ALL have a duty to respect the dignity of other people, even those who don't see eye to eye with us on important and controversial issues. I very much expect a higher level of discourse on this of all sites, dedicated to respect for all people as human beings. I hope to see more respectful and reasonable discourse here in the future.
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Katelynne Shouse
Are you Trans??? If not then keep your mouth shut about things you know nothing of! And for the record I am a Trans woman and know first hand of which I speak. People such as yourself who are trying to make bigoted uneducated decisions for Trans children/adults is tantamount to a White person saying they know what it's like to be Black!
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Marion Wolfe
Angela, can you take the time to explain to me why you are pretending to care about disabled people?
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Curtis W Miller
Well said!!
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
there are two genders. Male and female. God created them. Natural law affirms it. Subject closed.
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Stephanie A Willey
You're wrong and you need to educate yourself. Gender fluidity exists throughout all of nature and the animal kingdom, including humans and always has.
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Angela D.T. Blackthorne
Mostly gender fluidity is common in reptiles, and "natural transitions" generally only occur in evolutionarily selective situations for survival of a species, for example, when all the males of a species local to a given area die off. Also it's limited to females transitioning to males, never the reverse, that is unheard of. It doesn't occur in primates
Gender fluidity exists in nature but in a relatively small percentage of individuals in higher species and very much nominally proportionate to the size of populations in those species, especially in primate groups.
People who want us to believe that biological sex is ubiquitously fluid in nature, (such as those who insist that "everyone is transexual") as any kind of general or common condition are exaggerating the case.
Predominantly binary sex and gender are the rule in nature with notable, but relatively few exceptions, as a matter of survival of species. Binary sex divides evolutionary tasks among individuals making reproduction easier and safer. It's an evolutionary adaptation that's selective for survival and it's not going anywhere. Eliminating any recognition of a general binary division of physical sex differences makes no sense and would do more harm than good for the greater number of people. It's not even a religious question in my mind, it's a question of accurately analyzing everything we know. For years the medical community acted like males and females were nearly identical in every way except for our secondary sex characteristics and medical research was therefore done using male doctors as patients exclusively. That proved to be entirely misguided and modernly we recognize the differences are vast and systemic and very material in impact. As a result a lot of women suffered and died unnecessarily. It is a mistake to assume eliminating any notion of sex or sex differences would in any way improve our understanding of biology. I can agree that being transgender is immutable and not chosen But being male or female is also immutable and not a choice. The differences are material. We want to analogize it with racial differences but actually racial differences are more superficial though not nonexistent medically. A woman is by far more biologically different to a man, than two women of different races are to each other. The medical differences in particular are enormous between men and women. They are not completely transformed because one sex takes on the outer appearance of the other. .
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Kenneth Lafe Eric Sanderson
https://www.nature.com/articles/518288a
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Robert James Ruhnke
Wrong. Trans people have existed long before your outdated concept of “natural law.” Humans are an extension of nature. There are more than two sexes in nature. You’re willfully confusing sex and gender because you’re willfully running your biases off of outdated data. You insult the Gods with your ignorance.
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Pastor Jody S.
Wrong. Look up "Intersex" on GOOGLE or any other search engine.There are 45 different genetic abnormalities out there. And while you are there, look up "Old Covenant" and "new Covenant".
See the difference? Spend more time in the New Testament, if you are a Christian. That's your Faith.
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Rev_Shaun
But every so often, god gets the recipe wrong and puts a woman's brain in a man's body and vice versa. And there is where SCIENCE has to put right what FAITH got wrong.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Keith Allen Steele Eash there are also hermaphrodites. Besides humans, there are trans animals and gay animals.
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Robert Gagnon
Telling any child they are in the wrong body starts the avalanche of disastrous probabilities. Love who you are as you are. Guidance is what all these children need. Chemical castration and hormones are not the answer. If it were, none of the converted (transitioned) would commit suicide. Children have no clue about the difference of need and want. Apparently todays parents are just as clueless. Anyone can wait until they are an adult to make these life changing decisions. Castration, hormones and surgery only complicate an already disturbed young mind. Treat the issue not the symptoms!
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Michael Hunt
The rate of suicides by trans persons drastically drops after they receive gender affirming care. You're just showing your ignorance of transgender issues.
https://fenwayhealth.org/new-study-shows-transgender-people-who-receive-gender-affirming-surgery-are-significantly-less-likely-to-experience-psychological-distress-or-suicidal-ideation/
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Thomas P. Davis
My comment would be, evidently it depends on whose data that you read. All the data that I read says just the opposite. I guess it would be like the data the pharmaceutical industry publishes, you would need to investigate who took the data and who paid for it.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
If you have trans kids then you need to send them to a shrink or better yet to a deprograming clinic. They're brainwashed by the local public school system.
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Michael Hunt
You just want them programmed to follow your narrow Christian worldview. The young generations today are more knowledgeable and accepting of their true selves than you, and that's a really good thing.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Keith Allen Steele Eash you're the one who's brainwashed. This is America, home of the free. People are free to be who they want to be. People can be trans, and you're free to be a complete stronzo.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
You do not have the freedom to hurt yourself. I think you need to che j the laws on the books.
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Gary Leu
I assume you’re speaking about civil commitment laws regarding situations in which a person is a danger to themselves (Suicide), or others, or gravely disabled in some states DUE TO a mental illness.
I’m an expert on these statues, and they don’t apply to medical choices, even risky ones.
There are many circumstances where it is legally permissible to “hurt” oneself.
I don’t think you’ve read the statutes or understand them.
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Robert Gagnon
But being trans is the newest Tic toc challenge. Find it between auto asphyxiation and the tide pod challenge.
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Robert James Ruhnke
It’s not, bigot. It’s older than your bs concept of god.
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Lionheart
It’s amazing who are brainwashed isn’t it? You might not believe this, but there are some that actually believe a god sired a human being, by impregnating a woman. I’m not kidding, it’s crazy…..right? I know it’s hard to believe but that’s just how gullible many people are. Give them something to read and they’ll believe anything. 🤷🏼
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Rev. B
Which begs the question I enjoy asking people: Did g*d put a magic baby into Mary (all deity) or did it create a magic sperm to impregnate her (half deity). There are pluses and minuses in the storyline for either answer.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Comment removed by user.
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Raul Aviles
My son is hermafrodita.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
So are archangels. Your point?
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Robert J Giammarco
Hmm, lets see, if GOD created man and women, male and female, then WHY all the fuss? If a person wants to change their sex, it should be up to them. AT AN APPROPRIATE AGE. However, parents, teachers, as well as many others PUSHING them in that direction, is wrong, IMHO. How come we hear all these aguments for/against, by so called clergy, etc.. YET, I have YET to see much of the MANY that CHOSE to trangender speaking out so that our children could UNDERSTAND just what is involved? I see NONE of that, because the MSM, as well as those here, seem not WANTING to KNOW exactly what others went through. I guess if your child comes to you and says they want to commit suicide, or blow their brains out, you re going to give them the weapon or pills? Of course not. So WHY can't those who so desperatly want to change the sex of their very YOUNG child, get some facts from those that have done so, and NOW REGRET THEIR DECISION, AND ARE SPEAKING OUT AS TO WHY THEIR PARENTS ALLOWED THEM TO DO SO, ANY DID NOT GUIDE THEM, as we should be doing. Not guiding them into the unknown. GOD would not want that. The evil is spreading, don't be part of it. Think, get true facts. LISTEN to those who have done it, and are having monumental issues in their life.GOD be with us, we all need guidence.
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Katelynne Shouse
The old adage "Better to keep your mouth shut and let them think you a fool, than to speak and confirm it" applies to this response!
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Robert J Giammarco
I do not agree.
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Janis Carol Sommers
I believe Churches, Synagogues, Mosques, Temples, are buildings where religious membership supports, proportionately the majority membership, will support their clergy.
If, I as clergy, put my personal politics before my congregation in the form of a teaching or sermon, I am leading them to believe in what I think, not the words of G_d, Ye, GOD, Allah, Buddha, or the congregants, themselves, think. I, as clergy, as a Leader, honor the separation of Church and State. Clergy does not Lobby our political leaders in any way.
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Maggie McD
Why is a person's gender anyone else's business? How I feel and how I present myself to the world is not for you, your faith or any government to manage. Why is it so important for you to inflict your beliefs on others? Keep your faith at home and I'll take care of my family and loved ones. Signed, A cisgendered, happily married for 30 years with two kids consenting adult female.
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Steven Ferrell
I personally believe that trans hurt the heart of God as anyone who sins. But God still loves them. I still love them and pray for them daily.
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Katelynne Shouse
Thanks but no thanks.....keep your prayers of ignorance out of our lives!
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JaZe
Leaving 'God' out of the equation would be helpful.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
This is a hot and heated topics for the Mormons at Brigham Young University. The President of the LDS church, Dallin Oakes claims God contacted him to prevent this from happening. And this is right in the middle of the sex scandal occurring with the LDS church. If you don’t know what Mormon bishops make your girls and women have to do about sex take a look on YouTube, TikTalk and Facebook to hear what their Bishops make them do.
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Rev_Shaun
"Claims God contacted him"
Tell me, what mental institution is Dallin Oakes in right now. I might want to send him some flowers!
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Dallin Oakes can be found in the First Presidency office in Salt Lake City. I think the LDS church offices are synonymous with mental institutions in Utah. Someone needs to fact check me on this one.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Man set a blaze by Mormons/LDS church at UC Berkeley as the LDS church tries to coverup the $100 Billion tax fraud.
As one Christin asked what would Jesus do with $100 Billion? Would Jesus take the $100 Billion and feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, provide clothing for the poor and assist the ill? Or would Jesus take the money and buy stocks and real estate to make more money for the LDS church while telling members the money helping those in need around the world.
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John Wadsworth
Think about transgender children for a moment at what age does a child really know who or what they want to be or are? Who indoctrinates what the child thinks? There are age limits on many things but somehow now we allow children to make decisions at an age that is way too young. Legal ages for alcohol, driving a car, getting a job. So who really wants the child to change? The system? the child? the parents? Most go to college to be something they want to be and how many end up in that profession? hmmmm.
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Katelynne Shouse
I knew around age 5 or 6.....so yes children know EXACTLY who they are at the earliest of ages!!!
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Deborah Jean Howard
It is pretty sad that here in this great nation. That people are afraid for fear something that they think is wrong. Transgender people have been around for eons. Bisexual homosexual heterosexual have been around for years. We live in a melting pot of different nationalities, different beliefs, and different sexual beliefs. As long as you are following the law. Love, one another becoming to one another. It does not matter what race, or what sexual preference the person is. They are still a human being as long as they are not harming children or elderly people. Can’t we all just get along
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
“I am a man of faith and I am a Christian, and I believe the Lord gives us free will,” explained MO. state Rep Justin Sparks in a legislative session. “And when you are above the age of 18, you will have free will.”
Well put. Let's not force our belief, or interpretation onto our children. Let them decide once they are 18 years old. So that means that no, absolutely NO religious teachings, exposures, introductions to any religion until the child is 18.
Adults deciding what they think best for their child regardless of what harm may come of it is being called child abuse. Forcing a child into any religious belief can scar them emotionally for life, which can mean lost opportunities, lost friends, lost wages, loss of self.
So the motto should be: Wait then, until 18. At 18 a child can decide if they want anything to do with religion as well as if they are truly transgendered, and they can then decide what's best for them in each case
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ServantOfJudgement
@Revfather Surely you can see the difference between words and removing body parts right? When pruning a vineyard, one is wise to wait until the young tender plant is old enough to be pruned. If this is true with a simple vine, how much more will it be true with the most unique lifeform on the planet? When Jesus warned about harming children, he was talking to the people with knives and scalpels.
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Katelynne Shouse
🤣
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Burgos Johnson
I believe that students should be underto dress in what ever school appropriate manner they want. However, bathrooms have always been a place exclusively for biological females. My friends and I ran for that protection numerous times from the late 1950s onward. Now, in some places a 6'4" bearded man can follow women into the bathroom claiming that "he identifies as a woman". That creates a safety issue. In addition, women's bathrooms are already overcrowded with lines 30-40 people long at sporting and other events because all though both bathrooms have the same number of toilets, women's bathrooms do not have a row of 20+ urinals along the back wall!
When I was 7, I was hit with all of the restrictions placed on biological females. I could only wear dresses to school (I wore shorts underneath) I decided that I would rather be a boy because they had more freedom, little did I know that it would only get more pronounced as I got older. In the current climate, someone would have claimed that I was mis-gendered and might even have begun surgery and hormone therapy. That would have been disastrous, particularly with my family history of cancer. Butchering a child's body and using hormone therapy that they will have to stay on for 50+ YEARS is irresponsible. Menopausal women are advised NOT to use hormone therapy for longer than 10 years due to the estrogen based cancer risks and yet doctors now think it is acceptable to put a child on these therapies for DECADES! Bad Science AND BAD MEDICINE!! Let them dress however, they want but wait to make these drastic surgical and hormonal invasive practices!!
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Katelynne Shouse
Your ignorance concerning the matter is flashing bright as a neon sign; either educate yourself or keep your mouth shut!
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Diana Lee Tyree
God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He never changes. If Sodom and Gomorrah burned to the ground and never existed again for much less because they didn't have the knowledge or the technology to actually change a gender, these don't either because you can't change DNA what makes them think that God is in agreement with this changing of human anatomy?! Man didn't create man, God did! We are free moral agents, free to choose what we will, but we are not free of the consequences of our choices!
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Chris
By your own argument, Diana, making these laws is wrong. "We are free moral agents, free to choose what we will..." Putting your religion into law removes that freedom. If your god gave humans freedom of will and of choice then why are so many people determined to take away that freedom?
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Lionheart
There is no demonstrable evidence that your god, or any of the words gods, are real, that’s why all you have is faith. That’s all you’ve got, so making claims like your god never changes is, in reality, without any foundation, because we don’t know if any deity exists.
It’s like me saying, fairies and gnomes never change. I can’t make that statement because we don’t have any evidence they are real, but thank you for your comment.
🦁❤️
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Thomas P. Davis
I think of this verse in the bible.... "Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. " However, having said that, I must concede that you have more faith than I, since there is more evidence in this world that He does exist, than your evidence that He does not exist. I think of this sermon on Pascal's Wager given by David Asscherick many years ago. Basically, in Cliff Notes version it says the cost to believe in God is nothing, the risk is low, and if real, the rewards are great. If I die and He is not real I lose nothing. Under your belief system if God is real, you lose everything. https://www.bing.com/search?q=pascal%27s+wager+david+assherick&form=WNSGPH&qs=SW&cvid=f672cae872f84efaa20756ba92845b13&pq=pascal%27s+wager+david+assherick&cc=US&setlang=en-US&nclid=E8FA72EDD94B043BC9A0467F0E0930E3&ts=1678383740064&wsso=Moderate
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Lionheart
And what about....Krishna, Zeus, Mars, Vishnu, et al? Could one of those, or one of the other 2,995 others, be the real god, if there really is one?
I think I'll leave my options open, and just take care of my fellow man as best I can, with respect and love, and take what comes, if there is anything after this mortal life. 🤷🏼
🦁♥️
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Katelynne Shouse
Your superstitious Christofascist "beliefs" don't get to have a say in other people's lives. Butt out!
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Donald Michael Woodward
It always will amaze me how we put our wants into the word of God. God speaks through the individual and only the individual can be guided by his word. To listen to the voice of another who says their God wants you to obey is stupid. God only speaks to each of us and not to any one individual to be disseminated amongst the masses. So many religions use the idea that God speaks through one person for the masses to listen to and obey. This is just a reason for man's desire to control man. Not too many religions will teach that God speaks to the individual because the preacher then loses control of his flock.
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Chris
What it boils down to is this: Whether you agree or not with Trans people, it's none of your damn business who they are or want to be. Your religion does NOT belong in law. Not at a local level, not at a state level, and by Constitution not at a Federal level. Hate all you want, but take your religion and shove it up your sanctimonious ass.
And just in case you're not sure what my point is:
YOUR RELIGION IS NOT AND SHOULD NOT BE MADE INTO LAW!!!
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Dawn Lorraine Pisturino
Protecting children from harmful surgeries and hormones has nothing to do with "religion."
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Katelynne Shouse
LOL......says the Christofascist Nationalist!
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Angela Lewis
As a Christian, I believe God loves us all, and teachers us not to judge, but I'm at a loss to see where this issue is spoken of or agreed with in the Bible, God made man & woman, nowhere is it mentioned that we are to change the nature of his design, we all have free will, which I believe should be exercised as an adult.
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Dawn Lorraine Pisturino
It clearly outlines in the Bible, in both the New and Old Testaments, what God condones and allows. People who want to do what they want don't care about God or His laws, so they condemn God and His followers. Or they try to make up their own rules.
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Asher Page
I am a ordained minister and I am a trans man and my partner is a trans woman. Our pronouns are he/him and she/her. WE ARE NOT BACKING DOWN!!
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Katelynne Shouse
AMEN!
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Dawn Lorraine Pisturino
I have 15 years of experience working in inpatient psychiatric facilities as a registered nurse. If we are to believe in SCIENCE and not emotion, male DNA means MALE and female DNA means FEMALE. There is no dispute about that. Transgenderism is not a physical condition, it is a psychological one. And all of the assertions that there are 150 genders, etc., are mental fantasies, people acting out roles. It's fake. It's not real. Children do not have the mental capacity to make such serious and life-altering decisions as changing their sex with surgery and harmful hormones. And the parents who encourage this sort of thing are NOT protecting their children. And the doctors and hospitals who engage in this sort of thing are just making money off of it. We have to protect our children from harm until they are adults and have the mental capacity to make those decisions themselves.
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Kcoyle
I don't think anyone is "telling any child they are in the wrong body," (as Gagnon said above). Let's give children more credit for understanding themselves. Of course they need parental guidance, but children don't come out as trans just for the fun of it. I don't know anything about TikTok or other social media challenges, but kids who seriously come out aren't making it up. They need support just to be who they are--something the rest of us take for granted.
Being trans is not a mental illness, just as being homosexual is not a mental illness. However, gender dysphoria incongruence (when internal gender does not match biological sex) IS a mental illness that can lead to suicide. Some trans children need access to hormones and surgery just to be able to live long enough to reach adulthood. Gender-affirming care is approved by the American Academy of Pediatrics. Anyone working in health care who is up to date on their education should know this.
Laws that force kids to live with gender incongruence until age 18 will result in unnecessary deaths.
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arawngraalrd
Gender Affirming might mean making a confusion permanent, but such "care" is often a bit violent and irrevocable for use on Children. Each of us have been glorified in some capacity or other in many previous incarnations, and these capacities may be suitable for current circumstance.
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Pastor Jim
Wow, such disrespect and BS narratives. Half of you are trying to rewrite history and cram these trendy unsubstantiated ideas into the collective belief system like they existed all along, while the other half don't seem to understand that they are immature theologians just trying to flex their wings and experimental ideologies.
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Pastor Jody S.
Amen!
And for people that insist on dwelling in the Old Testament, here is another:
"4 For thus says the LORD: To the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths, who choose what pleases me, and who holds fast to my covenant
5 I will give them, in my house and within my walls, a monument and a name,
Better than sons and daughters;
an eternal name, which shall not be cut off, will I give them".-Isaiah 56:4-
What this means is that if you are anti-trans, you are against God the Father, and God the son.
I'm guessing things won't go well for you at your Final Judgement.
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David Cox
Read Roman's 1 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
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Katelynne Shouse
Pfffffft......more religious hocum and willful ignorance that the Christofascist are trying to force upon a Secular country. Keep it to yourself!
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Thomas P. Davis
You could also include this verse as well. Deu 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
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Paul Wallace
I will not place myself into the position of the Almighty. It seems to me, the last person who did that became the very devil. I'll try to live a life by the golden rule, and let God sort out the rest.
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Lionheart
Thank goodness there is no substantiating evidence that any of the claims like judgement, God, eternal Hell, etc. as stated in those stories and tales in the Bible are true.
🦁❤️
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Lionheart
On the plus side if things, we actually don’t know if there is going to be a “final judgement”, unless people want to believe everything they read in book written by human beings pushing their agenda. We still don’t know if there is really a god. We do know many men have created them to be what they want them to be if they did exist. 🤷🏼
Reading about a talking snake, and a talking donkey, and a woman being made from a man’s rib, kinda did it for me. 🤭
🦁❤️
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Joseph SCott Queen
These folk believe what humans say about science, but say the bible is a book written by humans and can't be trusted. HA ha ha.
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Katelynne Shouse
Oh you mean those educated people with medical, scientific, and psychological knowledge as opposed to those superstitious Bronze Age people who didn't understand anything? Yeah, I'll take the first group all day every day!!!
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ServantOfJudgement
All animals communicate, most do so verbally. Chickens have about 23 words upon hatching. Ask any zoologist, veterinarian, trainer or pet owner. All animals speak. Some humans understand them and some animals understand human language. Nothing new or exciting about it, just scientific fact. Start in Genesis again and pray for understanding.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
Eunuchs were usually individuals forced into.castration. not something they usually chose. Anti trans by choice I'm against.. anti trans by coercion is a different story.
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David Cox
Do you know what eunuchs are?
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Joseph SCott Queen
Eunuchs are people who choose not to have sex, although they are male and don't say anything to the difference. They also are Eunuchs that are forced to have their sex parts taking out ( not the penis) so there is no sex drive. Eunuchs are usually men. They are not trans-people nor are they children.
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Thomas P. Davis
Vienna boys' choir, whether they chose to do this or not is another story.
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Linda R Small
Is anyone reading the bible, the answers are in the book!
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
I doubt they believe in any of the Holy books, Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon, Buddhist Scriptures, Hindu Scriptures, etc.
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Kcoyle
The Torah (first 5 books of the Jewish Bible), and the Tanakh (Jewish Bible = the Christian Old Testament), as well as the scriptures of other faiths, are tools that can be used to make the world better, or can be used to wage war and sow fear and hate. It's up to us to choose how to use them.
The Jewish tradition is to discuss and debate, interpret and reinterpret, and spend our lifetime learning and relearning, the meanings of Torah and our other religious writings. Literalism and fundamentalism should be avoided. Multiple interpretations should be encouraged, and can yield respectful discussion, if not agreement.
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Katelynne Shouse
Only if you believe in superstitious hocus pocus!
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Paul Wallace
If a Christian is supposed to follow the example of Christ's life while he was living on this earth; then, should they not look into the Bible for guidance? I Peter 2:21 If that's true, let's look at how He handled things in His life. Most everyone is aware of the time that Jesus drove the money changers out of The Temple. But, there is no cover for folk who want to use this as an example. If the story in the Bible is to be believed, Christ was very clear that the people He got rid of were thieves, defrauding poor people who had come to The Temple to worship God. Matthew 21:12,13 So, where can we look to see Christ as being at Christian example? The first part of Like chapter 19 tells the story of Christ having lunch with a tax collector named Zacchaeus. He didn't tell Zacchaeus to stop enriching himself by over taxing people; He told Zacchaeus to believe. And, what should Zacchaeus believe? II Corinthians 5:17 tells us, "Anyone who believes in Christ is a new creation. The is gone. Therefore, Zacchaeus would live differently and no longer take advantage of others. What about the time Christ fed 5000 people with a packed lunch if 5 loves of bread and two fishes. (John 6:1-14) Christ did not means test anyone, he fed them. He even fed the folks who showed up to gather evidence against Home. The point here is, if we live our lives by the golden rule, then the question of how we deal with trans kids is a moot point. I am not responsible for how someone else lives their life. It is my job to treat others with respect and let them find their own way.
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Rev Ned
Garrison Keillor once said, “Lutherans love misery so much that they named a state fire it.”
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
christfascists talibangelists jesazis dominionists nationalists gopers
all different names for the same thing, people pushing their agenda looking to create a theocracy. and while some/many decry too much government, government overreach while preaching the government that governs least governs best do so while consistently pushing government not just into homes, or bedrooms but now into underwear.
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Dawn Lorraine Pisturino
Churches and "Reverends" who follow Christ's teachings and teach Christ's teachings will be successful. Those who don't will go by the wayside. God always wins.
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Daniel Todd Kamm
Bullies always go for the ones they think they can bully.
So too, politicians and their assorted minions.
I've always wondered about some of those 60's, 70's and 80's TV (no pun intended) programs where some "transvestite" commits a crime (allegedly because that's what Trans People always did back then, while the TV networks were trying to present "Gay" as "Ok" but not really...but yeah, really, and their dish soap sponsors tried too.
Just enough to give production meetings and the coffee breaks some meaning. Toss the queers a little affirmation and "wink," suggestively.
Enter the average "Bubbah."
These same "TV" programs could both titillate and disgust the "Bubbah" during his beer and television viewing time... and give their "honeys" a very rough night ( I believe Romanovsky and Phillips did a song way back in the day ... "ever since that night my need for her was twice as strong...." (my apologies to Ron and Paul respectively).
Those old programs.
I've always wondered whether real crime people, not "Wonder Woman," or some other super cop or detective, would be able to catch the modern day Trans spy or thief or assassin?
Trans, non-binary, whichever whatever people can live in shadow, entering light or retreating to dark at will. Most enter the light after their nascent darkness and stay there, basking in g-d's glory of creation, destruction and re=creation. Blessings.
But most depending on where they are at, could choose, at any time to move from the shadows, to light and dark and back at will.
The "bullies" are now at a certain disadvantage.
On the side: I offer that LGBTQ+/- and et al communities are also at a certain disadvantage: how do you tell a Proud Boy or any of these other types from any other self -respecting queer person in the back room of a gay leather cruise bar?
There are advantages to the bullies way and two or more can play at that.
The bullies have cleared the way nationwide with their narrow interpretation of the second amendment and sloppy access, conceal/carry & self defense laws, to weapons of all types... tsk, tsk.
I just remembered a "Wonder Woman" episode from Season One... she protected her beloved Steve by catching a mortar fired, and throwing it back at the perpetrators....
I love peace, and feeding my cats and the birds and other critters in my yard...and growing green things and food in my garden... and I would never personally support, condone or commit any kind of violence.
Just say no to bullies...
Paece and out
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Daniel Todd Kamm
Oh, sorry, forgot, I am a he / him... too old for anything more politically correct.... Peace tk
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Asher Page
I am an ordained minister and I am also a trans man and I am not backing down my partner is a trans woman and she is not backing down our pronouns are he/him and she/her and we are not backing down
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John Alex Paxson
Sincere love overcomes everything .... beliefs ... cultures ... EVERYTHING!!!!
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TJ
My child was born both male and female. It happens actually more often than people think. Trans people/Intersex people have been around since the beginning of our species. The first documented trans person was back in 7000BC!!! Please 🙏 no matter your belief you should love one another as you would want to be treated. All I am seeing is hate even in this thread.
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TJ
My child was born both male and female. It happens actually more often than people think. Trans people/Intersex people have been around since the beginning of our species. The first documented trans person was back in 7000BC!!! Please 🙏 no matter your belief you should love one another as you would want to be treated. All I am seeing is hate even in this thread.
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TJ
My child was born both male and female. It happens actually more often than people think. Trans people/Intersex people have been around since the beginning of our species. The first documented trans person was back in 7000BC!!! Please 🙏 no matter your belief you should love one another as you would want to be treated. All I am seeing is hate even in this thread.
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TJ
My child was born both male and female. It happens actually more often than people think. Trans people/Intersex people have been around since the beginning of our species. The first documented trans person was back in 7000BC!!! Please 🙏 no matter your belief you should love one another as you would want to be treated. All I am seeing is hate even in this thread.
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Andre' Carl Bedard Winter
Being born that way is one thing, removing your genitals and glands out of your body is another thing.
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Katelynne Shouse
No No, not any difference at all!
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Well let's see......one side absolutely refuses to believe modern medical wisdom and wants to inject their Christofascist"beliefs" onto everyone; the other side not only comprehends the Medical and Psychological aspects of the situation but are loving and affirming parents trying to give their children the best possible life. You're a moron if the second group isn't the ones you side with!
This moron stands with the fact that GOD mad no mistakes and if born with male DNA you are male female DNA female. HE does know best not us or a child.
Keep your ignorance and Christofascism to yourself......we are a Secular Nation and as such your version of religious "beliefs" should hold no sway over the people themselves nor the Country as a whole!
You cannot change your sex. You cannot change your DNA is a determinator of sex. You can only castrate yourself. Children are not old enough to make such so-called medical decisions. There are many problems with being transgender. Such as constant pain from complicated surgeries. Endless pharmaceuticals and pills for pain. High levels of suicide and what's called tranny regret. Also the male homosexual lifestyle is not a safe lifestyle. And they tend to die 25 years earlier than heterosexual males. I don't think transvestites should be reading to children in public school. It's a whole different culture from heterosexual culture. And this transsexual culture is trying to impose its belief system which is genocide upon everybody else. So is the violent gay lifestyle. I don't think I could marry a non straight couple.
You've clearly never met or had a meaningful conversation with a transperson if you can actually believe any of the nonsense you commented. Do some research first instead of just repeating anti-trans fake facts.
It really isn't that simple. Yes, there is male and female, but modern science, which looks closely at the REALITY of genetics and biology finds plenty of overlap and variation.
If you believe that God makes no mistakes, then you have to LOOK at creation and ACCEPT what is created.
https://www.nature.com/articles/518288a
Are you even sure 100% that god is a HE?
Francis Robert Johnson, you are absolutely correct that God makes no mistakes! Therefore, trans people are here to stay and deserve a seat at the table of humanity. Just because your human brain cannot comprehend the fact that trans people exist in divine perfection, doesn’t mean they don’t belong. I urge you to expand the love in your heart to include every body. Console that fear in your mind because we are all going to be ok. Trans people exist and deserve God’s love and our compassion… just like every other person on this Earth.
@Kaitlyn In my lifetime accepted modern medical practices have gone from standard procedures to outlawed barbaric treatments. In fact, Mankind's entire medical history excluding 2023(for now) have been now deemed primitive and barbaric. In reality, the medical practices documented in the Bible are still used today by modern scientists even though it took thousands of years to catch up with God's word. Better late than never right? Soon the modern medical practice of child/gender mimicking surgery will also be recognized for what it is.
Pffffft......keep your "beliefs" out of my reality!