Anti-Muhammad Billboard Angers Muslims

John Owens

I concur, Doc Glick. Good post.

Brother John

It seems delusion and self-imposed ignorance knows no educational boundaries, "Dr". Glick. You say, "While it appears to be true that historically religions can perpetrate crimes (the Inquisition) none are doing so today in the manner and to the extent of Islam."

Let's set aside the barbarity of Bronze Age nomads and the Dark Ages and stick with modern history. Here are two examples. Denial that they are factual is clear evidence of state indoctrination and delusion.

Germany was one the most Christian nations on Earth in the 20th Century. Atheists and other "infidels" were not imported to commit atrocities like the Holocaust. They were perpetrated by Christians, fired up with nationalism and religious fervour ("the Jews killed Jesus") wearing Gott Mit Uns belt buckles. The worst of them avoided prosecution for their horrific crimes thanks to the "rat lines" and collusion of the Christian churches.

Millions of innocent men, women and children have been, and are being, slaughtered in the GWOT, which was triggered by another false flag attack, accepted by a gullible, dumbed down population. The majority of those doing the killing are Christians from today's most Christian country. The ability to over ride basic human decency and conscience is often a combination of bigotry, racism and the cultural propensity for violence, all rampant in today's America.

And... "There seems to be a sizeable part of that community that has ill will or worse toward Christians and Jews." I'm not sure where you live, Doc, but were it in any of the many countries have are being bombed and terrorized without mercy, I guarantee you would also have more than "ill will" against the aggressors. I'd like to post a few pictures of the dead children the GWOT has produced, but can't do it on this forum, so you can avoid them and carry on in good conscience. The GWOT is not WWII. All subsequent "wars" have been immoral and without honour, glory or victory. It's outright savagery carried out by cadres of dupes, blinded by the flags they're waving, on behalf of war profiteers and psychopaths who sit in plush boardroom laughing at how easy it is to control their minds and emotions of the masses. It's pitiful.

If you're an M.D., here's an excerpt from the Hippocratic Oath .... "I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm."

It's not surprising that Owens concurs. People promoting hatred and spewing bigoted ignorance to fuel it are the reason we all have to live in a savage world. I offer a daily apology to the 8 million+ species we share the earth with on behalf of my "highly evolved" species. Our just punishment is well underway.

And, yes, I do know the definition of "bigot"... "a person who has strong, unreasonable beliefs and who does not like other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life"

Frank Yahoo

What was stated on the billboard is a FACT and true, so why is it an insult? People mock Jesus every day in the US and it wasn't a big deal. It was a big deal because Mohammad cannot be insulted. It is true that there is NO democracy in any nation around the world where majority are Muslims. Christians and Jews are always targeted and considered 2nd class citizens with 2nd class rights in all of these nations.

Joanne Martin

I disagree Dr. Glick that Islam seems to be the most intolerant. It is like I said before, the media will present whatever information is going to get the ratings and have people watch.

I am not saying that there are not countries that have their own hatred towards Christians and Jews, but they receive the same kind of information. They also do not have a constitution that protect a persons right to their religious beliefs.

Muslims in this country are afraid to speak out or drawn any more attention to themselves. I did read an article once, and I will try to find it again, that basically said that the people who hate the Muslim radicals the most are Muslims.

John Owens

Joanne, you need to look at Muslim majority countries and enclaves. They definitely ARE the most intolerant. The only way they will remain tolerant in THIS country is if they stay a very small minority, and are FORCED to follow OUR laws and tolerate our customs. No one says they should become Christians or atheists or anything else, but they cannot be allowed to dictate to us how to dress, what music to play, where to walk our dog. It is kind to be charitable toward people who are different, but it is naïve to think they will automatically reciprocate that kindness, particularly when history shows they do not.

Joanne Martin

I understand the premise John but as a Christian majority country we are just as intolerant of them. No one is telling us how to dress or what music to listen to yet we judge and treat them as outcast because of how they dress....

You are correct that not all people we extend a hand to are going t accept it graciously but it has to start somewhere and with someone for there ever to be a change.

John Owens

I'm afraid you do NOT understand the premise Joanne. We are NOT just as intolerant as they are. We do NOT make them pay extra tribute for being Muslim. We do not single them out for rape or beatings. We do NOT forbid them to worship or speak to others about their religion. We do not behead, torture or burn them. Please inform yourself.

As I said, it is nice to feel kindly toward those who are different, but we are to also be as wise as serpents (whatever that means). We are not to wish them harm, but it is OUR responsibility, not theirs, and not God's, to protect one another. If you have no concern for your own well-being, that is your privilege, but you must be concerned for your neighbors and kin at the same time. Islam is not a friend to Christianity, and the children of light should have no fellowship with children of darkness.

Joanne Martin

John as you know, try not to just assume information so I do try to keep myself informed. Like I have said over and over we can simple assume the media explains it all or understand that the same kind of hate is spewed on all sides and they have been taught to view Christianity as the darkness....its a cycle of learned hatred, however heinous and malicious crimes ARE being carried out against Muslims here in the US and the incidents keep becoming increasingly evil and more often.

What is naive is assuming that we have all the information or that somehow they have not been taught the same fear and hatred towards Christians as is being taught about them here.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/05/11/hate-crimes-against-muslims-us-continue-rise-2016

inga

and that is the problem right there with homosexuality. if it only affected that group. that generation.. they could take responsibility for their actions and accept the consequences.. but the kids get brought into it .. saturday afteroon street parades.. and conversations at school.. what does your two mommies/daddies do. and introduction to an alternative sexuality before their time. some would call this predator behavior. priming the children.. seeking their approval ?? like wtf ?? i dont have problem with gay people. i have friends. but we arent talking my book club... we are talking god s book club. and he says no. my book club is ok. i dont have children present that they are influencing. its an adult book club.

kkk. they influence their kids. if we did not know that to be the forst thing about a person though.. would it not be easier to offer grace sometimes we learn the "faults" first.. but really on that pretense. shoudl we just not stay away from all people ?? or just keeping seeking the wrong in them. first from our perspective.. and if that doenst work.. lets bring god into it.

Brother John

Add Deuteronomy 13 to your list, Travis.

Rebecca Sandoval

Christians are not killing non-believers, nor do they have many wives or marry children, nor do they castrate little girls. Muslims have been killing Christians and Jews for 1400 years and are still at it! Christians are not trying to take over a country and trying to convert you and if not successful they kill you . Christians assimilate with the people in the country they live in. No way can you compare Christians to Muslims. Total opposites, one good (Christians)the other evil (Muslims).

Karma

You took the words right out of my mouth!

Brother John

Keep spreading misinformation and fear if you like, Beca, but there will be escalating blowback and consequences. Both you and Karma need a mind enema.

"Let us leave aside for the moment the fact that since 9/11 not a single American has been killed in a terrorist attack by a citizen from the countries on this list. The reality is that an American is at least twice as likely to be shot dead by a toddler than killed by a terrorist. In 2014 88 Americans were shot dead, on average, every day: 58 killed themselves while 30 were murdered. In that same year 18 Americans were killed by terrorist attacks in the US. Put more starkly: more Americans were killed by firearms roughly every five hours than were killed by terrorists in an entire year. It is unlikely that scrapping a rule requiring extended background checks for gun purchases by some social security recipients suffering from mental illness will improve the situation."

"In 2002 I interviewed the late Maya Angelou about her views on the 9/11 terror attacks. “Living in a state of terror was new to many white people in America,” she told me. “But black people have been living in a state of terror in this country for more than 400 years.” Excerpts from the Feb. 8, 2017 article by Gary Younge appearing in the Guardian.

Romans 12:19 “Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

Luke 6:31New International Version (NIV) "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

John Maher

Mr. BECA, Mr. KARMA, the CHRISTIANS BEGAN the SLAUGHTER HERE in these UNITED STATES since 1492, the GENOCIDE of the RIGHTFUL KEEPERS of this GREAT COUNTRY, the PROUD AMERICAN INDIAN, north,south,east and west, SLAUGHTER and GENOCIDE is N O T a WIN and they did SO in the NAME of GOD, BLASPHEMY !!! THERE is NOTHING to FEAR but FEAR ITSELF, IGNORANCE and DENIAL is FEAR, ask YOUR PRESIDENT thats ALL HE KNOWs,
DUMP the IGNORAMUS tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is AMERICA......

Joanne Martin

Beca, I will have to disagree....all through history Christians have been killing non-believers....

John Owens

If Christians plan to survive, they will sooner or later begin anew to kill non-believers, out of necessity.

Minister Bill

Travis N Montgomery, before you falsely accuse Crusaders of being equal in evil to Islamists, you should study the history of what caused the crusades and the crusader knights to kill their Islamic enemies that had militarily invaded their country's and sought to occupy them,....and they did occupy them. Some of them like Spain were occupied for 300 years by the Moors (Islamists). Look it up and educate yourself on just exactly WHAT caused the Crusades. Don't be like Obama in his speech, wherein he denied historical fact, and said something to the effect of...."Christians shouldn't get on their high horse, Christians did a lot of bad things, REMEMBER THE CRUSADES". That is paraphrasing what Obama said, but is accurate to his accusation that the Crusaders were somehow evil. In making that remark, Obama completely ignored WHY the crusades and crusaders formed and drove the Islamists all the way back to their countries in the middle east. What Obama conveniently ignored is the the Crusades were a reaction by European Christians and knights who's country's had been militarily invaded by Islamists who had invaded large parts of Europe and via conquest and terror, ruled and occupied large sections of European countries, until after many many years and decades of putting up with that, the Christians formed armies (Crusaders) and struck back against the Islamists, eventually driving them all the way back to their middle eastern countries and then the Crusaders rightly occupied Jerusalem in an effort to ensure Islamist invasion never occurred in Christian Europe again. The problem is the Crusaders eventually stopped their occupation of Jerusalem and left Jerusalem.

A Christian "Crusade" war against the Islamists was created when the Islamists invaded Europe and actually took over in various places in Europe, and then persecuted, murdered, raped, and did all manner of evil against Christians. Except for the northern part of Spain, the Islamists all but conquered and ruled Spain for 300 years, before El Cid and other Christian knights finally drove the invading and occupying Islamists out of Spain. But we still see that Islamist influence today in Moorish (Islamist) architecture (among other left over medieval middle eastern influences we still see in Spain today) and the forever ruined bloodline of pure Spaniards.

Prior to the Islamist invasion of Spain, the Spanish people looked a lot like other Europeans. White skin and many Spaniards also had blonde hair and blue eyes. For the 300 years that Islamists occupied most of Spain, those Islamists raped and bred with the Spanish women, thus forever changing the bloodline, looks, complexion and skin color of what used to be predominately white, European Spainards. Today when we see the average Spaniard, most of the time we see a dark skinned (but usually not totally black) dark haired (only) brown eyes, race of people today. This is due to the Islamists forever destroying the pure Spanish bloodline in their 300 year occupation of Spain.

I once knew a young woman who's family ancestry came from northern Spain that resisted the Moorish invasion and kept the Islamists out militarily. Her skin was as white and hair as blonde, with blue eyes, as any nordic or Germanic European. Unless she told you that her family came from northern Spain, you would think she had nordic/teutonic/Germanic ancestry. Today, for the most part, you only see people like her in Spain in the far northern part of Spain. Because except for northern Spain, her race and bloodline was tainted and for all practical purposes destroyed by Moorish/Islamist inbreeding with white Spanish women.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a racist advocating for an all white Spain, I'm just the messenger who has studied the causes for the Crusades and am reporting what has been historically documented.

Travis N Montgomery, what you missed in your false premise that sought to align Crusaders as equally evil as Islamists, is that the Crusades and the Crusader knights were a reaction to Islamist military invasion and occupation of European Christian countries and they were simply reacting to the Islamist invasion of Europe and driving the Islamists out and all the way back to their own middle eastern countries. Did the crusaders have to be brutal and just as savage as the Islamist armies and warriors they fought in battle? Of course. They couldn't drive out a military invader dedicated to a book that isn't a religion at all, but is a manual for military conquest of the world and FORCED imposition of their dark cult of death upon all the European countries they partially or almost completely had conquered and occupied (as the case with Spain).....with flowers and love. You drive them out by at least TEMPORARILY being just as,...or more brutal than they and their islamist soldiers were, until they are driven out and defeated.

John Owens

...and yet, if I call someone a jerk, I'm spreading hate.

John Maher

Mr. OWINS, I HAVE CALLED U a JERK MANY,MANY TIMES and U CALLED ME a HATER among other INSULTS it is WRITTEN so don't DENY DUMP the IGNORAMUS tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A

inga

i dont think the muslim/islam victims and their families and their neighbors are any more impressed with the behavior than we are and i do feel that they are greatful to be in a society that does not instigate such behaviors. (though we do have our own hiccups and are not free of violent interruptions). i also feel there are many muslim/islam who do not wish to become victims. we need to demonstrate compassion to those who are here now. open your arms. protect all people. offer a safe place.

Joanne Martin

MDA I have to respectfully disagree with the notion that it is Muslims and Muslims alone who are guilty of these acts.

In the US alone there were over 5000 hate crimes in 2016 with more than 56% of them targeting gay men. With 2016 being the year of the deadliest mass shooting in history and it was targeted in inside an Orlando Gay Nightclub.

What about the Sandy Hook Elementary school shooting where 20 first grades were basically executed.

And I can list multiple deplorable acts done in the name of Jesus Christ and Christianity. Timothy McVeigh and David Korech are perfect examples. These are the stories that they are (Islamic/Muslims) are hearing as examples of what Americans are like and what we stand for.

Like I said evil has many faces and often hides behind their individual misuse of their holy doctrine. That is what we need to wake up and realize. The media shows us what will be the most easily sensationalize information to keep people engaged. It works both ways. Their media only shows what is wrong with American and they form their own fears and hate as many do here.

inga

i said that some where already. if north america had a billboard of such nature..it would be MUCH larger.

John Owens

Joanne, could you qualify those hate crimes in 2016? I'd like to know what goes into that statistic. Would that be like, calling them names? Could it include shoving someone because they propositioned you? Maybe egging their automobile. How does one determine motive? If I hit you with a pipe because I want your shoes, how is that less hate than if I hit you with a pipe because you represent some group that has wronged me or my people? I'm just curious. I know they weren't all killed, so, it kinda seems you are comparing radishes to oranges. I know the statistics don't even include hate crimes committed against WASPs for being white.

Joanne Martin

John Owens I actually have the 2014 and not 2016 as I had said. I mistype but her is the FBI hate crime statistics for 2014 https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/latest-hate-crime-statistics-available

John Owens

I looked that up, Joanne. I am not faulting you for it, but that was practically useless, since it did not explain anything about what was considered a hate crime.

Norma Battes

Brother John: Not that your post will help defuse the angst between beliefs, however I see your point - glass houses and tossing stones. Hailing from the 60's flower child era, I follow the live-and-let-live mantra. ...waiting on CW

Most Reverend

Christ fulfilled the law, so we don't stone people in the name of Christianity and God. Keep in mind, there are religions and people who still do. You do however cast these people out of your life for they who work against you don't belong being close to you.

Brother John

It may not defuse, but may expose and weaken extreme views that are both hypocritical and hyperbolic (and sometimes outright false), Norma. This applies to MDA and others as well.

As Islam, Christianity and Judaism all have the same foundation, denigrating one while glorifying another fabricates divisiveness, fear and hatred.

Fuelling these primal emotions in the masses has been used politically to enslave the minds of "believers", justifying and encouraging the slaughter of innocent people on behalf of the slavemasters, for century after century. Sadly, there are many "believers" of all stripes who consciously choose to cling to Bronze Age thinking and beliefs rather than helping our species shed the barbarism and ignorance that continues to foul and destroy the world we all inhabit. Based on our on-going cruelty, brutality and ignorance, Homo sapiens are a plague upon the earth and a threat to all life upon it. Only our overblown hubris makes us the "epitome of creation".

While many Christians conveniently avoid the monstrous accounts of their chosen god and multitude of commands and laws in the OT, they're happy to assume that all Muslims follow every word in the Quran. All great examples of the destructive power of religious beliefs and one of the reasons atheism/secularism is on the rise. It's never too late for mankind to start using their brains, but time is running short.

Brother John

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -- Blaise Pascal

"Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence." -- Anonymous

"Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?" -- James Madison

"I would believe any religion that could prove it had existed since the beginning of the world. But when I see Socrates, Plato, Moses, and Mohammed I do not think there is such a one. All religions owe their origin to man." -- Napoleon Bonaparte

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -- Richard Dawkins

"Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish." -- Anonymous

Dragon Priest

You make some wild assumptions. That koran was changed very early on to be the evil it is today. You also assume that it was God's word. The Creator does not hate believers or unbelievers. He will never want others to murder his creation over a faulty human created belief system. So that makes it not God's word much like the Bible it was changed to support an agenda of control and power.

inga

if youcan not pick anyone or anything to fault. thats your choice. the basics are the same and real. its your choice to believe if god has standards or not, and we dont really need a book for that. even us, decide who we have to dinner or keep company with. dont assume god is going to waste time arguing or entertaining those who are just being a$$holes. you wouldnt.. and yeah. i can assume he wont either. we have the choice to be good people .. or not. both have consequences.. unlike this site .. lol. claims. cause and effect. action and reaction. you can challenge the BIG guy if you like. its your choice. trying to change my mind.. wont further your quest with god. lol. those who dont belive in god. their choice. but no heaven for you, since you dont believe. you dont get it both ways. athiest, perfectly understandable. catholic oh yeah. i get that too. i am neither. but i agree with peoples choices. and respect the consequences of their/our choices. good luck.

John Owens

complementary. The "i" changes the meaning to one who gives compliments, rather than one who completes. Just saying.

inga

english lesson of the day. i did not know that. fortunately ii chose the correct spelling. i am a separate individual.

inga

curiously. in the other room.. "anti mu".. how many north americans do you think still assume god and/or jesus and or moses.. to be a white guy.. lol. compl*ements of the church portraits and hollywood actors portrayals.

Tom B

Inga...spiritually, there is no difference between men and women...these are just constructs to work with karma...Tom

inga

you could be right.

Joanne Martin

Male and female are only relevant while we are in human form

inga

jesus is the "son" of god. there is difference there. else god would have not have a "son" .

inga

but i disagree with this competition between men and women or black and white.. or..

there is no competition. (for some of us. for others there is. we all have our places and roles to play.

thats the thing. realizing that people have different positions. some ARE in competition. its good to identify yourself.

there is no blanket solution. but we MUST realize or learn to recognize the differences as well as the similarities. and not assume one answer.

one answer is a very narrow minded approach. sorry if that offends.. but some thought should be given to if it does, rather than just instantly retaliating. it speaks such volumes and is a reflection of..

inga

bi sexual too ?? arggg

Joanne Martin

Again it has been awhile since I read the Bible but years of CCD classes kind of embedded much in my mind and I clearly remember that it states we are all Gods children. So yes Jesus is the son of God but then so aren't you Tom and wouldn't that make me the daughter of God. Therefore to assume that only one belief system is correct and only this small section of people in this huge world are "heaven worthy" then I see that as saying if we are all God's children then he made a lot of mistakes. That is one claim I am not willing to make.

Tom B

Joanne...there is no way for us to make judgments about God making mistakes...we are all equally part of God...everyone goes in and out of the peace (heaven)...one thing i suggest everyone consider is that there is no anthropomorphic God...that is simply an ego concept, as the ego acts against God...Tom

John Maher

THATS the US of A, sorry !!!

inga

we had a forest fire in fort macMurray last year. it was pretty devastating and forced alot of people out of their homes fast. like NOW !! the people were displaced and many canadians helped them with food and shelter. they all thought they were going back. they wanted to..

but after being away for a while.. 2/3 of those who had left, have no desire to go back.

immigrants sometimes have all the good intentions.. much like the local residences.. but circumstances change. and we change with them.

i have faith in us. talking about it.. well. sometimes we are "tougher" than we really are.. but when push comes to shove.. we will help them in their time of need,.. just as they would us in our time. be kind. have faith.

Brother John

There's enough misinformation here already, Most Reverend. Did you even bother doing a simple search for "Islam" before posting? Try it and let us know what you learned. Then you may want to begin contacting all the sites that say (correctly) it's a religion to demand they correct their errors.

BTW... your credibility rating just dropped noticeably, but will plummet unless you post an admission of error/ignorance.

inga

he is sorry. can he have cake now. bahahah. sorry.

Brother John

This is not a "religious site", Norma. Atheist, Agnostics and others are welcome and are not religious.

"The Universal Life Church was founded on the basic belief that we are all children of the same universe and, derived from that basic belief, has established two core tenets by which it expects its ministers to conduct themselves:

Do only that which is right.

Every individual is free to practice their religion in the manner of their choosing, as mandated by the First Amendment, so long as that expression does not impinge upon the rights or freedoms of others and is in accordance with the government’s laws. We have made it our mission to actualize these tenets in the world by empowering millions of ministers, whether they come to us from a Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, Shinto, Agnostic, Atheist, Pagan, Wiccan, or Druid tradition, to speak their own truth to power."

You say, "Religious or not, it is the faithless that seek death and destruction."

You've got to be kidding! It's principally Christians vs Muslims today as we can plainly read in forums like this one. We atheists watch in horror as the two fanatical, deluded groups battle over which interpretations of ancient myths are true.

There's a caveat to "accepting all beliefs" in the ULC's mission in case you missed it. Most rational people would agree that forcefully occupying countries other than your own and raining down destruction and terror on it's inhabitants qualifies as impinging upon the rights and freedoms of others.

Fill in the blank and sing along...

Onward xxxxxxxxx soldiers, marching off to war, With the cross of Jesus going on before.

Looks like the first one has too many letters to be "atheist". Hmm.. maybe it's "atheistic soldiers" but it's strange that they'd be following Jesus, especially to yet another war.

"Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions." -- Frater Ravus

"'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'" -- Douglas Adams

Norma Battes

Brother John: Universal Life Church Monastery is not a religious website? Dernnit, "The ULC is open to people of all faiths,...." Who woulda guessed?

Also from the ULC homepage, "Our fundamental tasks are to promote freedom of religion...." "The ULC is open to people..., ...offering everyone the religious freedom..., ... and [to] practice your beliefs." Here, I will take the liberty to assume ULC defines "beliefs" as religion, and I will allow you your atheism as a belief and acceptable. However, I do believe ULC to be a religious site with intentions to promote tolerance and acceptance of diversity. Best of luck to you.

Brother John

Norma said, "Here, I will take the liberty to assume ULC defines “beliefs” as religion, and I will allow you your atheism as a belief and acceptable."

Thanks for your allowance but it's invalid.

You may be correct about the ULC's definition, but atheism is not a belief.

Atheism is one thing: A lack of belief in gods.

"Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system. To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

Older dictionaries define atheism as “a belief that there is no God.” Clearly, theistic influence taints these definitions. The fact that dictionaries define Atheism as “there is no God” betrays the (mono)theistic influence. Without the (mono)theistic influence, the definition would at least read “there are no gods.” Source: American Atheists

There are also countless "beliefs" people have that aren't anything to do with religion.

Racists believe their's is the superior race. Nationalists believe their's is the best country..........et al

No comment about Christians vs Muslims causing much of the death and destruction in the world today as opposed to "the faithless"?

Or this? Most rational people would agree that forcefully occupying countries other than your own and raining down destruction and terror on it’s inhabitants qualifies as impinging upon the rights and freedoms of others.

John Maher

DEAR NORMA, WHAT is FAITH and WHO is FAITHLESS, FAITH in WHOM or WHAT, to EACH THEIR OWN and this POST is NOT RELIGIOUS, its UNIVERSAL LIFE, WHO WROTE the BIBLE ??? DUMP the IGNORAMUS tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A

Joanne Martin

Universalist Churches beyond this website welcome all people regardless of religion, belief system and/or any other thing that separates us from each other. It allows the congregation to learn from each other and teaches coexistence and a life without prejudice.

The Universalist Church that I belong to and sometimes lead services at offer different services every Sunday as well as groups and club meeting during the week. Some of the services have included. Effective and Respectful Communication, The Healing Power of Music and sometimes just information sessions on different beliefs and is followed up each week with a meet and greet after where's everyone gets the chance to have idle chit chat or further the discussion started during the service.

There is also a Buddhist Book Club and Humanist and Atheist Covent group each week.

So whatever the description is regarding this website Universalists are all welcoming and has no definition of believer or. Nonbelievers it is simple a place where Love is its own religion and respect for all people is what it is working for.

inga

which is why i apologized . and pointed out that i apologized repeatedly that what you heard.. on the monkey thing. was not what was said. out of respect for you. again. what you heard.. was not what was spoken. but i still apologized and drew repeat attention to out of respect for you. and you retaliated with suggesting it was insincere.. again.. dismissing the apology.. your choice.. and then.. that there are less bahaha. well yeah !! WITH YOU.. LOL. of course !!

your messed !!

you speak one thing and tel another ?!! lol. you are not someone i wish to play with.. lol

Joanne Martin

Inga I will rephrase, maybe this can all be cleared up once and for all. I was not refusing to accept an apology. I truly never saw one and have still tried to search and can not find the post you are referring to.

So I will then apologize to you because my comments were based on my own post and believing that you meant since I said I.wasnt owed an apology meant I was refusing one. My fault, I did not realize you were referring to previous post that I failed to comment on that was in fact an apology. I would not refuse to acknowledge any kind of comment like that and would not have refused or disregarded it for any reason. As I said I still can't find it but there are almost 900 comments and I could probably look for days and miss half of what is going on. So I will reply to your response regarding that post. I appreciate the gesture and accept your apology and understand that we may view things differently and it was your attempt to lighten the conversation. I will also like to say that as I have tried to go through the posts again I had missed a lot of post you made with valid points regarding the topic at hand. Like I have said each time I scroll back through I find new post that were posted even as far back as a week ago so I was wrong when I stayed and believed you had not offered any valid input. It was in error and not intentional but I can see I was wrong and I apologize for that.

Joanne Martin

Fair enough...we will have to agree to disagree on this point. I am sorry if it appears that I consider myself superior to anyone. It must be in my writing because I often feel like I may be drive people, especially my poor husband, crazy with my constant questions, trying to gather as much information as I can. I do and will speak on topic I understand or believe strongly in however my intent was never superiority. I am emotion driven by nature and there are some matters I know I am intolerable of and perhaps within these conversations that is where I gave this impression.

However, you are correct that some people may view it for what it is and move on, but even on these discussion boards and in this post alone, have come across people who have commented that the truth hurts and we need to warn people of the dangers. It are these kind of thoughts that I find scary and can make a sign such as this dangerous to innocent people.

I guess I should also mention that I have been a true crime/survivor fanatic from a young age.i find the psychology factor as it pertains to like of individuals like Charles Manson and Jeffrey Dahmer or the stories of those who suffered abuse and the phenomenon that makes these kind of people lack that certain something that would make the average person incapable of even considering such acts. I always considered it my way of keeping a heightened awareness of the things going on around me without a clouded view through rose colored glasses. Sadly, there are far more "normal" people who have the potential to do and think evil things. Now I am not saying I live in fear and everyone is bad and trust no one; i am simply saying that news is filled daily with stories that we can comprehend because it seems like no one could do something like that but it is reality.

The only other way I can show my reason for believing this way would be to consider how many times have you heard a news report of read an article where they make sure to mention....so and so suffers from bi polar disorder and was not taking his medication at the time of this crime. Regretfully I fell under the group of people who thought of bi-polar as a scary thing that when not treated would turn people into killers. So much so that on a first date that was set up by a fiend this guy I was out with, for some reason felt compelled to open up to me, and told me he was diagnosed bi-polar but he was weening off the medication because he didnt like how it made him feel. I am ashamed to say I was actually frightened. It wasnt until I had a friend (and through the years a few people) who was diagnosed bi-polar. Well he was definitely suffering but I would have never considered him dangerous but he needs to be on medication. Well that was my ignorance about exactly what being bi-polar really is. Regardless of a person being bi-polar or not and whether they are taking medication or not, it does not suddenly turn them into a serial rapist or murderer. that was simply a way to sensationalize the news story and perhaps a way for the accused to look for some kind of deal based on "insanity"...who know...but it is used as part of news stories a lot.

It is sometimes intentionally unwilling to see past what one wants to believe but often it is unintentionally assuming you have the whole story and the big picture. We are only human after all and what we know and believe depends on where we get our information. Therefore I just fail to see the purpose of a billboard like this unless it is meant to provide the "scary" details in hopes that it will just be considered the whole story of all Muslims/Islamic people.

John Owens

I do not doubt your kindness one moment. I just see that we understand humans differently, and we can both be correct at different times in different places, I guess.

Joanne Martin

John thank you for your kind words and I can understand where that could be. I guess a better of understanding of where the billboard was place and the demographics surrounding it. I would like to believe I am just far to jaded in these situations and that you are correct. But you make a good point that a simple locations and events surrounding its erection could make a complete difference.

Joanne Martin

I agree and have dubbed it the Rosa Parks effect. She did not set out to be the face of the civil rights movement she just simply did not think she should have to give up her seat. Keeping in mind she was seated in the "colored" section already but the white section became full. So she didn't even try to be unlawful just felt she should not have to give up her seat. She was not concerned with anyone else who did give up their seats. She did not ridicule them or demean them for not following her lead. She simply Did what she felt was right for her. Inadvertantly this personal stand for her rights became a pivotal moment in the civil rights movement.

One person can not change the world by simply telling them what to do....however if you take a look around yourself and live a life of love peace and remove judgement perhaps someone will take notice and decide to do the same in their life and that is the only true way to make a difference

Just live a life of acceptance and compassion and be willing to work together to help each other because that is the only thing you can actually control and if everyone spent as much time on working on the only tiny part of the world that they can change and improve as they do pointing out why everyone else is responsible for the lack of peace in our hearts....we would see a much quicker change than one could even image.

Tom B

Joanne...absolutely...in the end, all we can really do in this world is be loving and caring, and model that kind of "life"...Tom

John Owens

You know, this is an example of how really stupid Islam is: Of what use is a virgin to a Muslim anyway, except to deflower them? After he deflowers them, are they replaced? If not, they are no longer virgins. If that is the case, in a Muslim paradise, a man who wants to get it on twice a day with a virgin has 32 days' worth of virgins. How many times can you nail a virgin before she is no longer fun to rape? What does he do for the rest of eternity?

Now, from whence come the virgins, and why do they have to serve this particular pig? Did they do something evil in order to be sentenced to this? What is their place in this paradise? Did they do something GOOD in order to be there?

Did you know that a Muslim thinks if you bury his remains with pig blood and pig parts that he cannot enter paradise?

What happens to Muslim women? Do their clitori grow back in paradise? What is their reward for being good subservient oppressed slaves? There is a lot of stupidity in the Islamic system. Also a lot of inbreeding and insanity.

John Maher

JOSEPH Er KNOPICK and JOHN OWINS YOU WHATEVERS are PERVERTED TOTALLY !!!

Brother John

You've made some disingenuous comments about one of the world's most popular religions, Joseph. As you well know, the Bible contains much barbarity and slaughter (as well as a plethora of contradictions) attributed directly to it's version of God, or indirectly through "the Prophet" Moses, who also, like Muhammed, claimed to be in direct contact with their God. While you seem to have some significant knowledge, some of your posts are more proselytizing rather than informative.

John Owens

I think it's cute how leftists like to use big words they really don't understand over and over. It's like code to the rest of the leftists, saying, "Look at me! I'm one of you!"

Disingenuous? I guess that sounds nice to a lefty, but the way you are using it is not correct at all. I notice you did not deny any of the things said about Islam or Mohammed, but instead criticized Yahweh. THAT's disingenuous. "Well, what about so-and so?" THAT's disingenuous. OH, and then you used proselytizing. Good one. So many proselytizers here. Surprised you didn't put misogynistic in there, but I guess since we were talking about ISLAM on this post, you wouldn't want to use it here.

Mr. Maher, did you ask your doctor about your thyroid? I really hope you get better. I was hoping your Tourette's would improve. Maybe cannabis oil?

John Owens

Oh, yes, and "plethora". Just FYI, those contradictions you mention exist in your understanding, not the word of Yahweh.

Brother John

Disingenuous = not truly honest or sincere

Actually I did post contrary information about Muhammed on June 15 and you already replied to it today.

I find it pathetic that people like yourself feel compelled to put others in made up categories. You seem smitten with "lefty" which I'll gladly accept as I'm left handed. No apologies for having a vocabulary beyond the Grade 7 level.

John Owens

Bra John, You just showed that you used the word incorrectly. You are the categorizer. That is what lefties DO, and yes, THAT IS YOUR CATEGORY, and your vocabulary is not above 7th grade, at least not as exhibited here. TRYING to use big words is what children do when they learn one that sounds "cool" to them. I could use fancy words like that in the third and fourth grade but by sixth grade I found them pretentious, as are all affectations. But, HEY, LIVE IT UP, Bra!

Tony Doles

I wonder how many of you actually have read the Quran or hadiths of Islam? What about the bible? Have you studied that? How about the Talmud or Torah of the Jewish faith? The Torah and Talmud of the Jewish faith allows rape of any child as long as they're goyim (non Jew or "cattle") male or female. Every nobleman in the bible owned slaves. The Jews had Jesus Christ murdered!! Whole cities were slaughtered by christians during the inquisition and crusades of "non-believers". Islam is a religion that is no different than the others. You criticize one, you criticize ALL.....

Brother John

Great comment, Tony. Haven't seen you posting here in the past. Welcome!! You'll find a number of "Christians" posting here with beliefs influenced by bigotry and it's constant companion, ignorance. While they're quite adept at showering us with scripture, few will have read the Quran. That will, however, not deter them from denigrating one of the world's most widespread religions, it's founder and it's adherents while ignoring the similarities with their own as you've pointed out.

Had the birth lottery placed these zealots in Pakistan, Iran or Morocco, they'd be praising Allah and demonizing Christians. Ignorance knows no boundaries. Fervent belief trumps reason, logic and reality.

"When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion." -- Robert M. Pirsig

John Owens

...or progressive...

John Owens

Perhaps we define hate speech differently. Saying you are completely wrong and arrogant is not hate. It is an observation that you might find useful to improve yourself, if you were not so arrogant. Retarded means, SLOW. Underdeveloped. Behind. Poco ritardo is a note on sheet music to instruct the musician.

As to this reference, "He was called out in the past for using “disabled tweaker” and “retarded” as slurs against a member who disagreed with him. Although he apologized at the time and vowed to be more civil, I see that he still finds it acceptable to use “retarded” to describe your points of view.", I realized that Bra John and his ilk, who think they should be able to say anything they like and I, I should be Christ-like about everything. In other words, to prove I am good and kind, I should allow them to act like hyenas and verbally strip the meat from my bones without protest or insult. (I see Bra John has nothing better to do than to go back over and over the blogs)

That is the tactic of the left. They say they want you to DIE, but accuse you of hate-speech if you call them stupid or lazy or deranged. Knowing this, I made a conscious decision to not allow impotent small-minded people to silence me.

That is what is happening with the Muslims. They can say they want to take over, rape our women, kill us, take our country, install Sharia law, but if we say anything about them, even if it is truthful, it is called hate-speech.

Now, Bra John says KMA and calls me bigoted and promoting ignorance and hatred, but THAT'S NOT NAME-CALLING. THAT'S NOT HATE. That's just mature, reasonable, educated observation. Well, I think it's pretty obvious he's full of digested stuff.

Brother John

You can take me off your "lefty list", Jack, as I don't meet your bizarre requirements. I've never, in my entire life, said, or even thought, I want some to DIE.

Most people would assume "lefty, liberal, tree huggers" to be pacifists and right-wing conservatives more likely to be warmongers. But there are obviously exceptions.

Norma Battes

(To Brother John erroneously posted elsewhere.)

” Brother John June 21, 2017 at 2:23 pm Good point Rev Paul…. I believe Islam is spreading faster than most, if not all, religions. What it will spread is bigotry, ignorance, fear and hatred….. just what our world needs..” (Would this post be considered hate speech against Islamic belief?)

” Brother John June 21, 2017 at 1:10 pm There’s no reason to accept or promote ignorance, bigotry and hatred in this world, and certainly not on this forum. ”

Does this contradict your post above?

“Brother John June 21, 2017 at 1:10 pm This is supposed to be a spiritually oriented forum for adult discussion and there is much we can learn from one another. ”

Semantics notwithstanding, does this post contradict your post below?

” Brother John June 22, 2017 at 1:22 pm This is not a “religious site”, Norma. Atheist, Agnostics and others are welcome and are not religious. ”

My Brother, I wish you well on what appears to be this arduous journey you have chosen. I pray you accept the many joys along your path that when your time is still you will find your efforts worthwhile. Vaya con Dios

Brother John

I know what you mean about getting disconnected during a discussion, Norma. I think I can piece together what your asking...

No contradiction. The billboard is indeed promoting ignorance rather than knowledge and understanding.

Spiritual has no implied connection to a specific religion. Semantics are important to effective communication. Here's an excellent comparison of the two....

http://www.the-open-mind.com/7-differences-between-religion-and-spirituality-1/

Brother John

Just a head's up, Norma. If your post is tagged for moderation (in red) it may take a few days to appear, especially if it's after 5 pm or on the weekend. I've re-posted and have had both appear like yours. Our moderators are probably all volunteers performing a thankless task.

THANK YOU MODERATORS!! WE APPRECIATE YOUR SERVICE.

Brother John

Hahahaha!! You forgot "retarded", but did toss in some big boy words.

John Owens

Just FYI, retarded is not a name, but a condition, like maladjusted and maleducated. I see you'd rather continue the banter. I'm a little busy but I'll be back.

John Owens

...and you overlooked the little Spanish lesson I gave you there.

Brother John

OK Jack.

John Owens

Ahora aprendes, Juancito! Ya sabes.

John Maher

JOHN OWINS you are QUICK to CALL NAMES and INSULT PEOPLE a TRUE Email FIGHTER as in TELEPHONE COWARD, EVER BEEN on the FIELD of HONOR ? I AM GOING to REPORT U to THE MONITOR U LITTLE BULLY, F..KT..D the ONLY SHININGLIGHT YOU'VE EVER SEEN is FROM YOUR INCUBATOR, SISSY BOY !!! DO I N OT SOUND as YOU JOHN OWINS ??? DUMP the tRUMP, MY AMERICA is the GREATEST !!!

John Owens

Mr. Maher, I'm so sorry you suffer from tourettes, but feel free to report me as a bully (that's what sissies do, tell on the bullies) anytime you feel like it. Be warned, though, if you call attention to my notes, you may well call attention to your own. I don't do fake F bombs and such like you do, so, it's just something to consider. I think I've treated your ravings with much more respect than you have my grammatically correct ones. Just keep trying to make cogent thoughts, and sooner or later, you'll have one.

John Owens

And, Mr. Maher, I'm not QUICK to call names, but I don't have to take any crap off anyone else either, and you just keep trying to goad me, even when I am not speaking with you. You just jump in and throw feeble insults. My Christian parents taught me to be kind to people like you, but you DO make it difficult. I'm still trying, though.

John Maher

Mr. OWINS, I HAVE POINTED OUT to U a NUMBER of TIMES WHAT an A H you R, Mr. OWINS as U CAN READ BUTT NOT COMPREHEND the GRAVITY of UR MIND, UR MIND is a TERRIBLE T H I N G, DUMP the tRUMP, AMERICA, AMERICA, WE are GREAT!!!

John Owens

Please take your medicine, Mr. Maher.

Brother John

John Maher...... although you may have a reason for it, using the PsYCHO kILLr FoNT for every post encourages me to simply scroll on by. If you'd actually like to have us take you seriously, try typing normally like most of us do... You'll find it's actually easier as you won't be constantly reaching for the caps lock.

Joanne Martin

Woah, John Owens....I have read your replies and respected your insight however "sissies tell on bullies" in really hope that was one of those jokes I just don't understand do to the off set humor.

Bullies are cowards who will seek out individuals who they believe are weaker than them and are often compensating for something lacking within themselves.

My family motto is we dont hit first but we hot last because I have a zero tolerance for bullies and being the mother of a child who was bullied, until it became physical and the so called bully got the beating of his life from I would have assume by your statement, my "sissie" son.

Forget worrying about what Muslims may or may mot be doing check the news regarding the epidemic of bullying and cyber bullying and how ot harms out children and sadly some of them are not strong enough or confident enough to stand up for themselves and reach out for help to make it stop and in the process maybe keep that bully from doing any more harm to other children. O understand this is an adult forum and you are speaking to another adult and feel that everyone should not be free to own their feelings regarding anyone's post but it's comments like only sissies tell on bullies that make me ashamed for people as a whole that you will argue about the harm Muslims are going to cause yet you jus demonstrated one of the biggest problems facing or countries children right now. It sickens me that it came from a grown man....

John Owens

Joan, you took the sissies and bullies think COMPLETELY out of context. That was Maher and me. Maher called me and somebody else (I honestly don't even remember who) sissie-boys. That's were that came from. There are too many posts on here for you to check all of that, but if you read it in context and order, you might even find it funny. I can't believe what a tirade you went off on. When you realize how foolish and judgmental you were, I hope you learn something.

I appreciate you lecturing me on bullies. I am 5'-5" and will be 60 this year. I went to public school on two continents, (well, one was an island) and I am a biker in what is probably the oldest bonafide MC in the world, and very probably the biggest. I probably know more about bullies than you ever dreamed of. I've dealt with them all my life. My son is also small. I taught him how to deal with bullies, not to be a bully. I am not the bully on this blog. There are at least two. Your acrimony is uncalled-for and a little bit show-boat. Please get off your high horse.

Joanne Martin

John, if it is regards to a previous post and I didnt get some kind of connection then I apologize. I took it at face value and simple read what was written.

However I will not be able to apologize for my "tirade" regarding a statement depicting the victims of bullies being sissies if they tell. If you made the connect that I did not see posts that preceded it and you claim yourself to be a victim of bullies then I am compelled to question why you expect any other kind of reaction to that statement as it stands alone.

I included my own experience regarding my son being bullied and a parent I cant understand where I appear "show Boaty" and why you would feel that me being upset by a statement like that is unnecessary.

Again, you let me know there were post that went along with it that would explain it away and I would then realize the meaning behind the words as something else, so my reaction was of a concerned parent and the reality of bullying epidemic that is hurting our kids. If the safety of my child and the emotion I feel when a statement is made (yet out of context I understand but I did not realize that, but you did when you berated me for it) that contributes to very thing that almost every parent is concerned about each time then send their child off to school, is considered being on my high horse, well I ask that you find me something even bigger to climb on because I will always react the same way where the people I love are involved.

Again, I apologize I did not see the full context of the conversation because you are right, posts get out of order and with so many they can be missed; but simply letting me know that would have been responded to with the same apology so the need to question my motives or need to show boat seems unwarranted and the one part that is really unnecessary.

John Owens

Joanne, I can see that you are a nice woman. I thought you were a little over-the-top in your scolding of me over the exchange with Maher. Because it's a blog, everybody sees stuff, but they only see certain stuff, and then react. I reacted to your reaction, but I still think you are a nice woman, and not an unreasonable one. You and I can converse with civility. You can't do that with everyone. Some of them treat you like an ignoramus, and then call you a meanie when you get your hackles up. That's what was going on before. If I don't talk to certain people and they don't talk to me, everything seems more civil here, but some want to control all the conversation. THEY are the bullies here. Not I.

Joanne Martin

I can respect and understand that. sometimes I find myself on the defensive with the wrong people unsure of the intent of their responses. It's my own character flaw i guess and I try to keep it straight but miss the mark sometimes.

As I originally started my overprotective mother rant, I had said how I always read your comments and respect your insight which may have been part of it...it kind of caught me off guard as I guess I just wasn't expecting it in one of your comments. it seemed out of place....and now I know why. no ill feelings and I look forward to sharing and exchanging of information with you.

John Owens

Yes. Right now, the biggest threats to peace are radicalized Islamists and the baby-faced dictator of North Korea. When they are neutralized or killed, there will be others. Nature abhors a vacuum, they say. There are localized threats everywhere, and they should each be addressed by the locals. If people govern themselves, they don't need government. That is what true anarchy should be-- not a lack of order or chaos, but order in which no committee or ruler is in charge. Where people govern themselves.

hedenhardwareshopp

William, I worship Othinn and all his kin. But let me say that the rants about Islam are old and wore out, and yes I knew who the billboard spoke of without reading the article. Keep the billboard to educate the unknowing, but let's have an open minded exchange here.

Brother John

I encourage you to invest a few hours reading through the two sites I linked with an open mind. Truth can be very disturbing and our minds have an overwhelming urge to protect our sense of well being.

Joanne Martin

This is true, however Timothy McVeigh killed 169 people, 19 being children at a day care center...he was not Islamic......or Adam Lanza who massacred 5-6 year old children at the Sandy Hook Elementary School....not Islamic....Seung-Hui Cho who killed 32 people at the Virginia Tech shootings....not Islamic....Jeffery Dahmer, Son of Sam, the Zodiac killer...none of these men were Islamic.

Evil comes from all walks of life and is based on the individual(s) that carry out such evil. Look around, there is no religion that is free from radicals who hide behind a "religion" that they have warped in order to fulfill their warped sense of what it right.

I read an article once and it said that the people who actually have the most resentment towards Muslims are Muslims. These heinous acts are not a representation of an entire religion yet the misinterpretation of the written word that they use to cover up the true evil within them and allows them to find a way to explain their actions away.

Brother John

I understand why Americans do not want to know the truth about 9/11, calumetkid. But you're not left with the "official version". There is a mountain of evidence clearly indicating that the three, not just two, buildings fell through controlled demolition, plus the lack of evidence of any planes at the Pentagon or Shanksville. Much of this is included in the two links I'd posted.

Search YouTube for "9/11 eyewitness accounts". There are many.

Everyone I know here in Canada believes this was another false flag attack that was not only allowed to slide without those involved being prosecuted, but more importantly, has resulted in the deaths of millions of innocent people that had nothing to do with it.

This may be the event that finally bankrupts the U.S. both financially and morally. Sadly, the likely solution will be another world war, planned and instigated by the same psychopaths who've been allowed to rule the planet. They'll be no one to blame but those who sat idly occupying their minds with things that make them happy.

"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.

Brother John

Although there are many 9/11 documentaries available, this is one of the best.The opening does an excellent job of explaining why uncovering the truth should be important to a nation that's cherished freedom and liberty in the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmV5gk5r1bU

Nebraska Jones

You're attacking the man's vocabulary over and over, while giving scant attention to his arguments. That makes someone look petty and juvenile, and it isn't John.

John Owens

Nebraska, just because Bra happens to think like you, you ignore his rudeness and snidery. I pick at his vocabulary because he comes across as smug and snotty. If he would check his rudeness and know-it-all sophomore attitude, I could talk with him, but he thinks being ruder and snottier makes him right. He is not interested in what is right but in winning textual exchanges. This is the same kind of person who criticizes Trump for doing that. I just want him to dig himself. But, Hey, take up for him. I can never be as petty as he is if I tried, and if you choose to think so, that is your prerogative.

Brother John

Uh oh Nebraska, you're on John's "lefty list" now. Are you new to this forum? Haven't seen posts from you in the past. If so, welcome and be prepared for some extreme comments from some of the hardcore "believers" who frequent this open forum.

Thanks for your support, but John's attacks have little effect on me other than mild amusement. I encourage you not to become frustrated by any of the nonsense that goes on here, and call B.S. when you see it.

Carry on bravely

John Owens

Y'all get each other's phone numbers and you can flirt without the rest of us seeing it.

Brother John

Ready for another foot burger already, Jack Owens? I thought the Moses/Zipporah platter would satisfy your craving for embarrassment. Like most members, I'm not here to flirt. You, on the other hand, have been using this forum as a chat line to connect with Inga and it looks like it could get naughty. Remember, we can all read what you two are saying, including your wife.

Inga to John - "i will watch your waistline too.. while i work on my “more to love” look. lol."

Do you think your Harley would make it up to Fort McMurray? It sure looks like she's given you an invitation and there's probably more than a free tank of gas involved.

inga

silly rabbit. brother john. are you jealous ?? lol. or just have no sense of humor.

inga

its the internet.. innocent. for all we know.. you are the girl and i am the guy.. lol

oh yeah. hmmm.

does cute happiness scare anyone ?? if john.. you are interested in john. please says so. i dont want to step on anyones toes. lol. i suppose i should have asked ahead. my apologies. you werent act like a couple.

inga

and oh.. i am not in fort MAC. that was a reference story apparently taken out of context. that happens when people assume.

thanks for suggesting i am offering more than a tank of gas though.. lol. i havent even got that far in the conversation.. lol

seems your impression of me s based on your assumptions. and your assumptions may not always be correct.. just saying.

Brother John

Thanks Tom. I understand your point, but sadly, due principally to what many people choose to believe is "reality", our planet is on the verge of massive destruction that will make the present look idyllic in contrast. Complacency, apathy and a massive sense of entitlement have allowed psycho/sociopaths to attain positions of power and authority.

As evidenced by some of the beliefs voiced on this "spiritually oriented" forum, and more importantly, on a global scale, events are unfolding that may very well be the "end times", potentially for the survival of mankind, but certainly for life as we've known it.

The "pursuit of happiness" creates protective shields in our minds that deflect anything that might disturb it. Early in my life I chose to seek truth, no matter where it led me. I remain stunned and saddened by what my species has done to the other 8+ million species we share the planet with, including our own. To imagine that Homo sapiens are the epitome of creation is a testament to our overblown hubris.

Tom B

Brother John...whatever we choose to "destroy", even if it appears to be everything, is still only an illusion, and we will still be part of God...and everything we think is past, present and future is all the same, and all in existence always...Tom

Brother John

Curiously, Moses chose to marry a Midianite named Zipporah, John. I guess he liked women that were "filthy, corrupt and inbred" assuming your characterization is even remotely accurate.

John Owens

Yahweh didn't have them killed because they were dark-skinned. Curiously, scripture does not tell us that Moses's sons, while Levites, ever became big-shots among the Israelites.

John Owens

Oh, and be careful reading that stuff. A light might shine into the darkness of your soul.

Brother John

Who said anything about "dark skinned", John? Kind of awkward to recall that Moses chose to marry a Midianite after your scathing depiction of them, isn't it? LMFAO!!

John Owens

That would have been Moses's sister, the one who was watching him in his little basket in the reeds when Pharoah's daughter found him, Miriam, but don't read it-- El Shaddai might hold you responsible for things you read. If you are going to continue to be so childish, arrogant, and hard-headed (all ancient Israelitish traits, by the way), it would be better for you to remain totally ignorant.

Brother John

You're the one who denigrates the Midianites. Moses probably would have kicked your ass (or worse) had you called his wife "filthy, corrupt and inbred". I'll bet gross disrespect for a great Prophet qualifies as blasphemy, so heed your own warning. LMFAO even harder now...

John Owens

I take it back-- read all you like. Nothing is ever going to touch you. You are immune from penalty for acting like a petty, impotent jerk. Surely the law of God could never apply to you. It seems that you believe if you can act snottier than another person, it somehow means you are correct. It doesn't. It just means you are snotty. And petty. And socially crippled.

inga

agreed i used to teach english as a second language for women at the local college. there were msulims there, japanese, chinese, philipines., venuzuela.. all sorts of wonderful people from different countires and cultures. they were beautiful people !!(and ironically, i spell worse now then then. bahahah))

John Maher

MODERATORs CK* WHO FIRST WROTE the WORDs [ SISSY BOY ] Thank YOU !!!

John Owens

Poor Mr. Maher. We must overlook the obvious deficiencies in his medication and give him the attention he so desperately wants. Hi, Mr. Maher. How are you today?

John Maher

Thank U Mr. OWINS, I am in DIRE NEED of ATTENTION BUTT NOT BY U or UR SISSY BOYs, for WHAT it's WORTH DUMP the tRUMP

John Owens

Dear Mr. Maher, I truly hope you don't speak the way you type. If you do, please know that I would not look down on you for that. I might not seek out your company, but I would not look down on you. I'm guessing you type strangely so that people will notice and read your comments. You don't really have to do that though. I believe they will read them, anyway. I will, just because I want to understand you. I'm just saying.

Brother John

Thanks to encouragement by yourself and others, Jack***, Mr. Maher, Inga and others continue to shower us with their random, sometimes delusional thoughts. Why not just scroll by and encourage their exit?

Joanne Martin

I think I got it....and if so then it somewhat reflects my own belief and understanding which is why it seems to only be this one part that I seem to have a disconnect but I believe it the word illusion that had me stumped....so if you dont mind I am going to explain as briefly as I can an explanation of my idea of the hear and now and karma collectively and much like I was stuck because of a single word I will try to make it broad so that it will just be enough to be considered to be me having a better understanding of what you have been expressing......

Joanne Martin

So i guess I will start with my belief that "heaven" and "hell" are not places that you are assigned to upon death based on your present life. If the description of hell as stated in the Bible is to be believed then it is easy to get the sense that the "hell" or so called punishment place we are assigned to is simply the world we live in through our many lives while we search for a heightened sense of awareness and enlightenment that will one day lead us to or final destination or level of existence that is often referred to as heaven.....So starting from out time in human form, we pass away and our soul is then reunited with its "soul mates" after a period of "schooling" for lack of a better word where we take review of the previous life and essentially what lessons we take away from it.

Since we travel through each life with the same set of souls albeit in different roles.....I could be you mother in this life and a coworker in the next, as a whole our lives are basically drawn out for us in advance. Ever have that dream where it is almost insignificant but a time later, some refer to it as deja vu, but i can actually remember when I dreamt the exact scenario I am experience. Could be as minor as driving on a street and know the car in front of you and what is happening in the next 10 seconds as it happens. I use this as my way of understand that our life has already been planned out for us before we get here, and our subconscious mind while in a sleeping state sometimes place a little fast forward by accident.

Or lives journeys are chosen for a number of reasons. The majority of our experiences are assigned based on the Karma we created in the previous life and as a lesson in some way. It can also be accepted as a sort of sacrifice of the ideal life to either protect other souls in your group or like a get out of jail free card per say to bump up your Karma credits. This is the ideal that I ask you not to get hung up on the working but the idea behind it because I am finding it hard to find the right words t describe it to you without it being viewed as me considering it a punishment. Much like the innocent child taken much to soon. The sacrifice may need to taken in order for another member of the group to fulfill his/her karmic balance and I would like to think is indicative to that soul having reached its full amount of enlightenment and that this is the last sacrifices that will allow them to stay on the other side with no need to return to "hell. No more lessons per say.

Therefore our need to judge others or change others is really an arbitrary matter because regardless of our involvement or not, if they are not meant to receive or gain that "lesson" in this trip around then it is pointless. Therefore, regardless of how much money we obtain or the house we live in etc, they are just "illusions" meant to satisfy our needs or thoughts of what we need while we are in human form but whether those things are present or not, our life journey and all aspects of it, good and bad, will play out either way because once again we had a full understanding and knowledge of exactly what experiences and path we were going to travel before we returned to this state of being but will not acquire a full realization or understanding of it again until we once again return to the spiritual plane of existence and everything becomes known to us once again.

Phew...so after much pondering and reviewing your explanations in your posts....without being to critical regarding the words I chose to try and explain it in a logical manner so you can get just an understanding of what I am expressing so the same confusion doesnt happen like when I got hung up on the simple use of the word illusion which made it hard for me to gather a full understanding.

Joanne Martin

Ok i submitted however it is quite lengthy so hopefully doesnt get stuck in moderation for too long

John Owens

JUST AN FYI: The common perceptions of heaven and hell are taught nowhere in the Bible, but pre-existed the western world's knowledge of the Hebrew scriptures and what is erroneously referred to as the New Testament (the word "testament" in the scriptures is a faulty translation of a word meaning "Covenant." It does not mean a book or a collection of writings.) The famous play by Dante, in the section called "Infierno", was a SATIRE of those beliefs, many of which continue to this day, particularly in the Romanesque established churches.

The ACTUAL Hebrew scriptures teach that when a human dies, they die like any other creature, and death is an absence of life, without thought, memory, dream, ambition, etcetera. There are plenty of scriptures regarding resurrections (yes, plural), at a time yet to arrive. These are found throughout the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. I am not advising people to read them or believe them, just informing that most of the teaching today regarding death and the hereafter do not come from the Bible, even within churches which claim to teach it.

Tom B

Joanne...you are describing "life" as it really is; including the interaction of souls and karma...and it is all basically foredained...thank you for taking the time to understand...i would do the same for you...Tom

Joanne Martin

The concept of Karma is widely recognized within the Eastern philosophies. Although I have not quite grasped Tom's explanation and reasoning of his beliefs or is no less valid than every one elses beliefs.

I have discussed it with my husband and tried to get a better grasp on it so I can more directly connect with him rearing this.

When you consider most beliefs they can seem ludicrous at face value...A Virgin Mother, a commitment to complete inner peace and acceptance in ALL areas or the idea that a man can have many wives. If they were not as commonly known these too may cause use to laugh at the mere thought.

I will say that whether we understand completely or not he is strong and steadfast in what he comments. He has not wavered from exactly the person he stated he was on post 1. So he deserves at least the respect that comes with that. At least I know I have a high regard for Tom and his ability to practice what he preaches all the way through.

Tom B

Joanne...thank you...Brother John...respectfully, please try to meditate on whether when your reaction is to be facetious, is it because you have been challenged, and you are not really committed to the belief in which you are challenged?...all i ask is that you consider...Tom

Tom B

Thank you, Joanne...i am happy to discuss what we know about existence, as opposed to arguing about temporal hate, attacks and a large lack of loving and caring...have a great day...Tom

Tom B

Hi Joanne...i enjoy your writing, and agree with most of it...i certainly agree that being religious in no way defines being spiritual...also, there is a difference between "believing" and "knowing"...we seek to "know" the peace that is there beyond all ego and physical existence...let me know the web-sites to which you refer...have a good day...Tom

Ken

I like that term "Bling faith". They wear it like a cheap trophy.

John Maher

RIGHT ON BROTHER JOHN !!! DUMP the IGNORAMUS tRUMP,GOD is GREAT so is the UA of A

Tom B

Brother John...i certainly agree atheists can be funny...but i need to know your definition of "atheist", in order to comment on "enlightened"...Tom

inga

but tom.. people dont need to tell that ??!! one is supposed to keep all comments strictly om the billboard. (sarcasm) or are you starting to see the relevance of who these children of god really are now. awesome. the coffee is perking. people are starting to smell it !!

Brother John

I find this accurate and clear, Tom. The most common misconception is that atheists do not believe in gods. This is incorrect.

"Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system. To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

Older dictionaries define atheism as “a belief that there is no God.” Clearly, theistic influence taints these definitions. The fact that dictionaries define Atheism as “there is no God” betrays the (mono)theistic influence. Without the (mono)theistic influence, the definition would at least read “there are no gods.”" Source: American Atheists

Joanne Martin

I think the problem is an understanding that Atheism and Agnostic are 2 different things

inga

when i grow up i want to be king !!

Brother John

Just noticed the mistake in my reply to you, Tom. Should have been "the most common misconception is that atheists deny the existence of a "god".

Joanne Martin

Inga commenting on the billboard and any aspect of the meaning or reason for the billboard IS the topic to be discussed here. So its not my way or Toms way or any other individuals way...its the premise and purpose for a blog discussion following a news article. Hows that higher than though IQ treating you now (now that was the "practicing" Buddhist kind of response I was mentioning before. Not temporary insanity, yet inability to remain tolerant when confronted with such a question with an obvious answer....oh but doesnt suit you, yet I am the one who insists others think like me.)

inga

i dont have a problem taking on your angry comments joanne. or your delusions that you represent that room ??lol

Tom B

Joanne...all knowledge is an illusion, fueled by ego...the way to the peace of God is eliminating all egotism/intellectual constructs...not by more knowledge...i tried that; it absolutely does not work...this is somewhat characterized by the 12 steps statement of "let go, let God"...the concept of learning in order to understand is an ego construct, and not helpful...just love and care...Tom

Joanne Martin

I disagree, I think the more we know and understand what others believe and seek out the true meaning in what each religion/spiritual philosophies are truly teaching it removes our ego of assuming that the tiny bit of knowledge we posses and choose to believe is the one and only true way and it makes us less tolerant of others.

John Maher

I SPEAK to JESUS EVERY MOMENT of EVERYDAY BUT ALAS JESUS NEVER EVER ANSWERs, DUMP the tRUMP !!!

Joseph E Knopick

@ John Maher, Even as you are involved with this and reading, typing and being quite rude? So which Jesus are you speaking with now?

John Maher

I SAID that I speak to JESUS but HE DOES NOT ANSWER ALAS HE is TOO, TOO, BUSY TURNING OVER TABLES in the TEMPLES, YOU KNOW the VIOLENT ONE, HOW MANY SONS of GOD DO YOU SCHOLARS KNOW, I KNOW MANY PEOPLE NAMED JESUS, TRY THE PUBLIC LIBRARY, DUMP the tRUMP !!!

John Owens

RIGHT HERE, YOU SAID JESUS TELL YOU DUMP THE TRUMP AND ALL WHO THINK AS HE. THEN YOU SAID HE NEVER ANSWERS YOU.

Brother John

Straight from the apologist's handbook, John. Different accounts of the same event do not "dovetail", they contradict one another. Dr. Ehrman encouraged everyone to simply read about the same event in the four gospels and compare them. Why don't you try it yourself and let us know what you find.

Before you get started, here's an example of what to look for....

Lawyer: How many people were in the vehicle on the night in question?

Witness 1: only one Witness 2: there were three Witness 3: two Witness 4: five. Two in the front and three in the backseat

Lawyer: Your honour, there are no contradictions here. These accounts dovetail together perfectly

What many "believers" hate is when atheists know more about their religion than they do, particularly when the facts don't match their beliefs. Carry on blissfully.

John Owens

Whatever excerpt to which you refer certainly isn't scripture. Maybe that was Ted Kennedy speaking about Chappaquiddick. Not sure. Still, you are taking your cues not from scripture but from critics of scripture. The gospel accounts do not contradict one another at all. Sometimes, they refer to SIMILAR events that happened in different places and times, and nay-sayers interpret those as contradictions. Sometimes, one disciple leaves out a detail that another does not. That is also called a contradiction, when it is not. One says, two thieves, another says, two malefactors. Not the same thing, but not a contradiction. In no place does the scripture say that only three men were crucified that day, so there could well have been two thieves, two malefactor, and Jesus, contrary to the Trinitarian idea that there were only three.

I don't apologize to arrogant argumentative blowhards for scripture, but I beg God to forgive mankind's arrogance, although I have not yet reached a point to consider praying for certain ones.

Brother John

Those were examples of contradictions, not an excerpt, John. I agree that your examples are not contradictions. BTW, it's interesting that you call the extensive work of a well respected NT scholar who has spent decades studying extant Greek manuscripts "pure goofiness". Do you consider yourself to be more knowledgeable than Dr. Ehrman, who, by the way, spent many years as an evangelical Christian?

Just so we're on the same page.... the Cambridge Dictionary defines a contradiction as "the fact of something being the complete opposite of something else or very different from something else, so that one of them must be wrong". My example with the four witnesses makes it clear that only one of them (or none of them) could be correct and the others wrong.

Here's an example that involves the same event, not similar events. Some of the many biblical contradictions/discrepancies are insignificant, but this one involves the Resurrection, a key component of Christian beliefs. It's similar to the example I'd posted about witnesses being asked "how many were there"?

Matthew 28:1: After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. Mary Magdalene and the other Mary

Mark 16:1: When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body. The two Marys, plus a third person, Salome

Luke 24:10: When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles. The two Marys, Joanna, and "the others."

John 20:1: Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. Only Mary Magdalene

These involve the supposed last words of Jesus....

Matthew 27:46: Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani? that is to say, My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Verse 50 says he cried out again before dying, but no mention is made of spoken words.)

Luke 23:46: Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.

John 19:30: It is finished

Again, same important event.... contradictory answers. If Christians would simply focus on the NT and the teaching of Jesus, and quit insisting that the Bible is inerrant and historically accurate, their beliefs would be more readily accepted.

"Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions." -- Frater Ravus

"'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'" -- Douglas Adams

If you're referring to me in your last paragraph (arrogant argumentative blowhards) you can KMA.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-contradictions#SeenGod

John Owens

Regarding the accounts of Jesus' last words, and the women going to the tomb, besides making mountains out of molehills, you are assuming that if says Mary went to the tomb, that it MEANS ONLY Mary went to the tomb. The other accounts say she went also, but include other names. Now, these women were walking through a city, and chances are, their own neighborhoods. It is not inconceivable that they were joined by others. It says Salome went with the Maries to buy spices. You did not quote that she went to the tomb, so it SEEMS she went in one place and Joanna in another. (Luke 24:10) Also, most of us have more than one name, and our co-workers may call us by one, while our close kin may call us by another, so if two people telling the same story use a different name for the same person, that is not a contradiction.

As for the dying words, the simplest explanation for the differences is that different people actually did hear different things, or remembered different things.

Long story short, this "expert" you mention (you only mention him because his teachings back your point of view, and reinforce your vain opinion that you are right, not because you are actually studying to LEARN anything) is LOOKING for contradictions because he wants to appeal to people like you, who are easy.

The fact is, none of these things affect the general narrative, that God became a human and showed us that a human CAN live without sin, then allowed Himself to become a sacrifice to save us from the second death, and THEN rose again to live forever and set up a Kingdom on Earth in which resurrected humans will live and peace will reign.

Ken

Mr. Owens, Your quote I don’t apologize to arrogant argumentative blowhards for scripture, but I beg God to forgive mankind’s arrogance, although I have not yet reached a point to consider praying for certain ones."

You need to start praying, for yourself.

John Owens

I appreciate your concern, Ken, but you're still full of digested beans. I do pray for myself. I pray for my family, my co-workers, and I pray for our country, our leaders (I even used to pray for the Kenyan, and not that he would die, either, but that he would make one or two good decisions), and that God's Kingdom will come to this Earth.

I guess you think that remark about arrogant blowhards was hate-speech? If so, you don't know what hate is. Hate is trying to or wanting to physically hurt people just because they are different. That's what hate is. Hate is wanting to take what belongs to them, because you think YOU deserve what they have.

You think everything I say is awful, because I disagree with YOU. If that is any way to measure kindness or goodness, that would make you God. Kinda goofy, you have to admit.

John Maher

THEN SHUT YOUR TRAP JOHN OWINS, THATs EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO EVERYF..K..GDAY, TRAPSHYTING, OLE' OLE' OLE' OLE'....DUMP the tRUMP !!! ANYONE LIKE YOU WHO PROFESSES to be an INTELLECT AIN'T !!! and YOUR TOYING with INGA PROVES UR a SON of a DUMPthe tRUMP !!!

inga

hey. how do you know i am not toying with him.. blink blink.

John Owens

mR. mAHER, DO YOU REALLY hAVE nOTHING bETTER TO dO? dOES yOUR dEMON NOT aLLOW yOU TO sLEEP?

inga

i ll just be over here watching the 2014 live talks out of la with john cleese and eric idle. oh man this is hillarious. did you know cleese put a book out.. "so anyway: oh my, i want to read that one. thats now on my to list. they are doing excerts from it on stage. priceless.

inga

i have the greatest job. the customers fuel me.. while i fuel them.. lol.

this guy just came in. a younger one.. early 20s. we were talking on beer, being friday. yeah he says. but i lost my licence.. me: good for you.. you can drink more now. him: yeah. (in realization), i have a DD, (designated driver) me: yeah. its hardly a punishment !! think of it more as a .. graduation party !! you may never want your licence back. you may keep the chaufer and move on to bigger and better things. its the worlds way of throwing you a bone. alls you have to do is say thank you, and run with it.

Joseph E Knopick

T minus 10...9...8... hee hee!

Joseph E Knopick

I am not sure that I should ask but What is your religious/spiritual stance Tom? are you Gnostic? Theophonist? or a TimeLord?

Tom B

Joseph...i am glad to see you know Timelords...i always loved science -fiction...i assume you like Dr. Who and its spin-off...in answer to your question, i am not of a label, whether religion or otherwise...i believe we are in this illusion of "life" to resolve karmic balance in our souls, but i do not know why...i feel there is no such thing as time, but it appears real; especially since we seem to reincarnate so much...i believe we have fellow-traveler souls, and we have different relationships with them in different "lifetimes"...i try to realize that in this perceived existence i can not understand everything...sometimes it works...ultimately, i have realized that the only real meaning comes from love and caring...thanks for asking...Tom

Brother John

Well said, Tom. It's been said that Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once. Time is the basis for our three dimensional "reality". Always moving forward towards "the Future" with Now instantly becoming the Past, when, in fact, Now is all that exists.

Here's Dr. Carl Sagan explaining dimensions and the existence of a fourth, and likely many more dimensions that we simply cannot comprehend in our 3 dimensional construct. Around halfway mark, he illustrates this when the two dimensional entity cannot explain "up" to his fellow Flatlanders as it's beyond their comprehension.

This parallels all of the deities humans have invented to explain the unexplainable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0WjV6MmCyM

Joanne Martin

Tom,

You are first person I have met in a long time that understand and shares my understanding of "soul mates"...It makes sense now why I con always relate so loosely with your comments.

To anyone who my want to discredit such a crazy notion,; ever dream of someone and when you talk about the dream later you find yourself saying it was you but not really you. I knew in the dream but it didnt look like you. Our we were at my house, well it didnt look like my house but I knew it was? In a dream like state sometimes you subconscious that contain all the memories of past lives gets confused and mixes the lives up a bit. Thats why we recognize the person in the dream and only realize upon an awakened state that they didnt appear to be the same person.

No way to prove that, understandable, but how do explain a 4 year old getting up on a piano bench and suddenly playing like a master......perhaps a past life knowledge that was not quite stored properly?

Just wanted to cut off the "thats ridiculous" comments with an explanation before.

John Maher

I will N O T fathom to tell U how to THINK JOHN OWINS, THAT Sir is UP to U and U ALONE, DUMP the IGNORAMUS tRUMP, GOD IS GREAT and so is the US of A UR PRESIDENT and HIS CONSTITUENTS ALL are GOING to GO to JUSTICE if they TAKE AWAY HEALTH CARE and K I L L 28,000,000 TWENTY EIGHT M I L L I O N AMERICANS, SICK, HANDICAPPED, VETERANS*** HUMAN BEINGS, IS the CURRENT ADMINISTRATION MUSLIMS no BUTT they ARE in MY EYES TERRORISTs and TRAITORs to THE USA

John Owens

Bro John,

I submit to you that it is not ignorance for me to bristle at insults. You, yourself seem to be bipolar at times. When someone acts like an arrogant know-it-all and throws insults at me, YES, I throw it back. That is not ignorant. Ignorant is thinking you know more than everyone else and that your opinion is superior to everyone else's. You change sides a lot. That doesn't make you right. Now, because of your prior military service, I will not insult you. I feel no embarrassment and have shown no more ignorance than I have been shown, as in this last post of yours, and the ones you are still posting as I respond to this one. Maybe you are taking instructions from Mr. Maher.

As for our involvement overseas, if talk of disengaging, people start crying about "isolationists" and "isolationism". If you want to be "citizens of the world" and have a "global community", then you have to accept interference from the larger nations. You speak as if we alone affect the rest of the world. Tell me, how many of the people at that Ariana Grande concert were warmongers? How many on the bridge? How many of the people ISIS is decapitating and stoning and burning? You are using their excuses to excuse them. That is all B.S.

It is not ignorant for someone to disagree with you and think you are full of misinformation. It COULD be mistaken, but that remains to be proven. It seems like you are starting all over with your assininity. I see them popping on my screen. That's what I was calling the bipolar stuff.

If you're going to continue to be sophomoric, I'll just ignore you and let everyone else see your behavior.

Brother John

You're not just bristling about insults, Jack***. In this case, you're bristling because the information I posted, much of it provided by a renowned, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, contradicts the hateful ignorance you posted for all to read.

Go back up to your June 21 post (just under Eric's) and thoroughly read what you posted (I have the feeling that you simply fire off some of your replies without first carefully re-reading them). Was any of it disrespectful or hateful? Did the well researched information by Mr. Greenwald contradict any of what you posted? If so, are you able to demonstrate that your are right and he is wrong? How about the information about Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia? Accurate or not?

You've accused more than one of us of being "sophomoric" in the past.

"conceited and overconfident of knowledge but poorly informed and immature"

Who more closely matches this description?

Keep in mind that you began this exchange (June 23 12:56). What you posted has been challenged. The balls in your court, John Owens. Can you muster an intelligent response, or will you continue to hit into the net?

FYI.... I'm not here to "attack" anyone. I find it personally offensive to see misinformation (including ancient myths) posted as fact, along with hateful, divisive rhetoric, particularly on a "spiritually oriented" site such as this. The simple addition of "that is my belief or opinion" to a statement indicates one is open to correction. But facts are facts, and truth is truth. Denial has no effect on either. It simply opens another door to the dark world of delusion and misunderstanding. I prefer to keep those doors locked, even though the delusion may be more appealing than the truth.

John Maher

GREAT GOING BROTHER JOHN, JOHN OWINS LIKE HIS UNCLE DONALD TALKS CRAP and CHANGES POLICY and LIES, NO FACTS, HE NEEDS to VISIT a LIBRARY, MAYBE the CHILDRENS LIBRARY FACTs OWINS FACTS !!! DUMP the IGNORAMUS tRUMP.

inga

i love you.

John Owens

I get that from all the women who like real men.

inga

WAIT !! you didnt EAT my cake ?? did you ??!!

John Owens

No. I'm watching my waistline.

inga

i will watch your waistline too.. while i work on my "more to love" look. lol.

inga

am i taking the attention away from you john.. my apolgies.. continue. please

Tom B

Inga...allegorically you are on the right track...remember, Archie could have his cake, and eat it too...Tom

inga

lol. which would be good if that was the saying.. but the saying is: you cant EAT your cake and have it too. another group of words that has been re-arranged to fit someones needs.

inga

oh no.. i love you. k yeah you are right. well sort of.. in our house, i love you is generally greeted with : what do you want" .. well it used to be.. now its just NO ! so yeah. k i see what you are saying

inga

my son has his 27 birthday coming up here next week. he is still single. do you think an inflatable doll would be good for a birthday present ?? or would that just a touch much. lol bahahha. we can call her: dolly . bahahah. lol

inga

she could be the strong silent type. like the chur... k. wont go there.. lol

inga

bet this site regrets free speech/no censorship now huh ??!! bahahah. cake ??

John Owens

Freudian slip?

inga

where is your post reply button.. ?? no no freudian slip. it was purely accidental. but i could keep the guy employed.. lol. bahaha. OOPS is my middle name,

John Owens

It will only break down so far, Inga, then it has to continue on the same line.

Um, perhaps since you are such an effervescent personality, you might consider brightening "Brother John's" day or maybe even John Maher's?

inga

ok. cake for every one named john. and everyone not named john too. shhh. wink.

inga

i did offer her cake too. sigh. and when she did not accept. I ATE IT. bahaha. adding to my "more to love" girlish figure.. wink

inga

and it was good.

John Maher

JOHN OWINS YOU HAVE TRULY PROVEN YOURSELF TO BE a F..KT..D IDIOT !!!