The Oregon Shooter

The Umpqua Community College shootings that took place last week in Oregon have left our nation in mourning and wondering what could have caused the shooter to do such a horrible thing. Many news stations have declined to name the shooter and instead have focused on the names of the victims and the heroes who saved lives.

For example, Chris Mintz has been hailed by many in the country as a hero after he used his own body to try to block the gunman from entering the classroom. Mintz was shot multiple times, and while he is expected to survive, he will have to learn how to walk again and has a long road to recovery. Still, he fared better than many others did that day. Nine people were murdered in cold blood in their classroom.

mass shooting
Oregon's Umpqua Community College, the site of the U.S.'s most recent mass shooting.

The victims who lost their lives are:

  • Lucero Alcatraz, 19

  • Treven Anspach, 20

  • Rebecka Carnes, 18

  • Larry Levine, 67

  • Kim Dietz, 59

  • Quinn Cooper, 18

  • Lucas Eibel, 18

  • Jason Johnson, 34

  • Sarena Dawn Moore, 44

The victims who have survived were transported to nearby hospitals in various conditions. Some may never walk again, and all of them will have to deal with the traumatic experience that will likely haunt them for the rest of their lives.

Deranged Mind

It has become clear the shooter had a deranged mind. His social media accounts showed he had Nazi memorabilia and also had a sick fascination with torture methods used on the Irish Republican Party. A witness who survived the shooting said the shooter laughed after shooting a teacher in the classroom that was targeted and then said he had been waiting to do that for a long time. He also indicated he was planning to commit suicide after the shooting rampage was over.

In the aftermath of a mass shooting, some assumptions frequently arise. These include the notions that mental illness causes gun violence, and that diagnosis of mental illness can predict gun violence. We saw this after the Sandy Hook killings in Newtown with Anne Coulter announcing that "guns don't kill people, the mentally ill do!" NRA president LaPierre called for a national registry of the mentally ill as a fix to gun violence. Indeed we see these sort of ideas in our discourse about the Oregon shootings.

The problem is that while instances of a mentally ill person shooting people get a large amount of publicity, they aren't all that common. Databases that track gun homicides, like the National Center for Health Statistics, show that less than 5% of the 120,000 gun-related killings in the last decade were committed by people diagnosed with mental illness.

Mentally ill people are also statistically less likely to commit violent crimes than others, with only about 4% doing so according to the National Alliance on Mental Illness. Starting a registry as the NRA president suggests would give us about 61.5 million names to sort through per year, interrogate as possible criminals, and invasively monitor in the hopes of finding exactly the right 4%. Let's hope we can do all of this before they commit the crimes, but even if we pretended like we could, we would still be solving less than 5% of gun-related killings.

Our quickness to discuss mental health after mass shootings is certainly appropriate for particular instances, including for the Umpqua CC shootings. It's role in in solving gun violence however, is nearly moot.

Obama Calls for Gun Control

The day of the shootings, Obama addressed the nation and emphasized how important it was to have better gun control laws in the country. He said he was concerned that we as Americans were getting used to the shootings, and he didn't want us to become numb to them.

The number of mass shootings has increased significantly in our country in recent years. It seems the shootings are getting closer and closer together. What's the cause of this? Is it the lack of gun control? There are some important points to consider regarding the issue:

  • The shootings happened in a "gun-free zone" and were thus not stopped by this form of control.

  • Guns don't kill people, people kill people using guns, and it is relatively easy for said people to get guns through private sales and gun shows, bypassing registrations and background checks.

  • The Umpqua CC shooter was well versed in gun safety and use, suggesting that training required by possible regulation would not have prevented this, and also that a knowledgeable pro-gun environment would not prevent this.

  • Statistics show that having a gun in your home no matter how it is stored significantly increases the risk of death for you and your family members by gun-related accident, suicide, or homicide while not decreasing the likelihood of you being a victim of a crime.

  • People are still able to get their hands on illegal drugs even though they have been illegal for many years. Just because something is against the law to own doesn't mean the criminals won't have access to it.

  • The 2nd Amendment makes clear that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. It also clarifies that this right is for members of a well-regulated militia, not individuals.

  • In nations with much stricter gun control laws like France, Italy, UK, Finland, and Germany, the rates of gun homicides and suicides are substantially lower that in the U.S.

  • Australia banned most firearms and has not had a single mass shooting since doing so 1996. Overall crime rates are also lower now than when they had guns.

Religious Targets

Some witnesses to the Umpqua CC shootings reported that the shooter asked his victims about their religious beliefs. In the cases these specific witnesses saw, the poor students answered that they were Christian before being shot in the head. It has been suggested that Christians were targeted for their beliefs. Any sort of targeting of specific groups can understandably worsen an already horrific tragedy in the minds of the community. No doubt many Christians across the country are unsettled as of late, fearful of being a target of violence merely for their faith.

Cheyenne Fitzgerald was one student the shooter questioned about her religion. She answered, "nothing," and the gunman opened fire on her, despite her not being a Christian. Fitzgerald survived by playing dead.

At this point, we don't know if anybody witnessed the shooter spare anyone based on their answer to the question of religion. As we await further reports to be released to the public, there may be some light shed on the motivations and actions of the shooter during the incident.


  1. ronald page's Avatar ronald page

    As Pastor's not one has said anything as to what God's word tell us......but as for my house I will protect my family with a registers weapons! Rev. Ronald W. Page

    1. David's Avatar David

      The true problem is a question of mental health. We already have background checks but due to privacy issues, mental health providers are not able to share that information so that it shows up a background check. Years ago, states closed hundreds of mental hospitals. Where are the individuals who needed that care. We need to address the needs of the mentally ill before we change the constitution.

      1. cliff's Avatar cliff

        david is right it's a mental health issue

      2. Karleem Poppy's Avatar Karleem Poppy

        Do you know what it's like to get a letter every year from Pinelawn cemetery where my son is laid to rest telling me that it's that time of year to get a holiday blanket for his grave. While everybody else is receiving early Christmas cards and Thanksgiving Day cards. I have to worry about can I do it this year again put flowers on his grave. I am a grieving mother of a murder child. My son was a victim of gun violence. He was killed November 29th 2009 on my father's birthday and the day before his 32 birthday. It is going on 6 years and everyday is a struggle for me and my family to move on. This was a black on black crime mental illness had nothing to do with it. Young people today find ways to get their hands on guns. No matter what you say or what laws you pass they will still be able to purchase them or get them from a friend or by any means possible Just getting the guns off the street is not enough you have to get the murderers off the street. Trust and believe if they got away with it once they will do it again. What I felt when my son was killed was that my community failed me they'd rather protect the murderer Then the victim my son. Until this day the murderer still walks around in the community and I'm sure most people know exactly who they are. And since I'm a black woman with no financial means to pay for a private detective. Also because my son had been in trouble before no church or community leader would rally for him because there is no political gain. So I'm sitting here counting down the days until November 29th so I can say goodbye to my son all over again. I cannot even begin to make you understand what grief is like when you lose your child to gum violence. So I ask everyone to pray for me and my family with the holidays coming to get through this another year.

        1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

          Karleem, I am so sorry about what happened to your son. I know it is a horrible thing for a parent to have to bury their child. My greatest fear is that I might someday outlive a child or grandchild. My cousin lost his son in Iraq and he is not bitter and seems well-adjusted but he misses that boy every day that goes by. A man I worked with years ago, who is 7 years younger than me, died Monday night and I am going to see his widow and parents tonight. His parents had three sons and have outlived two of them. As King David said when his infant son died, "I will go to him, but he will not come back to me." Grief is a heavy burden to bear, and though I don't know you personally at all, I can feel for you to some degree right now. Please find what comfort you can in prayer and the Holy Scriptures, and believe that ALL the Dead, small and great, will be raised, and that God Himself shall wipe away every tear, and there will be no more death nor sorrow at some point in the future. I hope my words have brought you at least some small amount of comfort. It is not much, but all that I have that I can give you.

        2. randy's Avatar randy

          your son is with the lord and his peace is eternal . grief is natural but healing lays at the cross . The 29th is a Sunday so let me make a suggestion . go to church that morning and during the invitation go kneel at the alter and pray this prayer our father in heaven please grant me peace and comfort me in my times of tribulation . show me your presence so that I may let go. I give my son to you for I know you will love him and I will trust in you to not only love him but to take this burden of grief from me! when you stand up open your eyes go find a hymnal and find the song love lifted me approach the pastor and ask if it could be sung and tell him it's in memory of your son who died 6 years ago to the day! I know peace will find you ( I was raised southern baptist so this Is something I'd recommend in a baptist church . not sure your particular practice but I still think this could be done

    2. melinda's Avatar melinda

      good for you.

    3. Richard McKee's Avatar Richard McKee

      As a card carrying member of the NRA and a firearms instructor I am happy to see the number of positive comments about the 2nd amendment and the right to carry a firearm for hunting and self defense. I also agree with a number of people about your lack of positive statistics concerning home defense....if you are going to post FBI information please let it be the CORRECT information. If one would eliminate the following cities from the groups, New Ordeans, LA, Chicago, Detroit and DC our murder rate in the US would rank 4th from the bottom of a long list of countries where statistics are maintained. Please get it right next time. Blessings

      1. Jeff Coxen's Avatar Jeff Coxen

        I agree 100% with your comment! Also, here in the state of Washington we have VERY extensive background checks. And if you go to a gun show you must be a member and still do a background check to purchase a firearm!

      2. Jeff's Avatar Jeff

        I agree with you Rev. McKee. I am a former soldier, a retired reserve police officer and a firearms instructor and the Correct FBI statistics show that if you eliminated those 5 cities, the United States would be one of the lowest for murder rates. Gun Control is not the answer.

    4. William J Davis's Avatar William J Davis

      I am a minister. I am also a retired soldier (25yrs), a teamster and an early pioneer of the world of PCs. I equate myself more to the Archbishop of Riems, see Charlemagne, than Jerry Falwell. We have reached a deadly impass. It has become politically incorrect to preach the morality of the Bible. This has been predicted for a thousand years. Gun free zones are like Christians in the Flavian Amphitheater... freshmeat. I and my wife are 71 years old, we are both CHL holders and will quickly and accurately defend ourselves. The liberal argument regarding a well regulated militia leaves out the fact that the guys at Bunker Hill and Lexinton were using their personal weapons. How do you think Daniel Boone, Johnathan Zane, Lew Wetzel and any other American would react to the government confiscating weapons? It is very clear the police cannot defend themselves much less us. You could start with cleaning up South Chicago. More oeople have been killed there this year than all the mass killings combined. I was raised with weapons. Fireing my great grandfathers Colt at age five. Cars are more dangerous than guns. Let's get tid of them first....WJD.

      1. Denise Swartz's Avatar Denise Swartz

        Totally agree!

      2. shane's Avatar shane

        Then said he to them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his money: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    5. Michael Jones's Avatar Michael Jones

      We have laws on the books and good, honest people follow those laws. Only the law breakers or mentally ill people don't willingly follow laws. Having been a LEO for 18 years I can attest that bad guys will get weapons from somewhere and wont purchase them legally. I will protect me and mine in my home. I prayed daily that as a LEO I would never have to take a life in the line of duty, and that I would go home at EOW to my family.

    6. Sage Drake's Avatar Sage Drake

      As a man of god I would like to point out that this day and age, God is most of the time, not with them. I carry a gun but I know the risks and responsibilty involved. I never wish to take any life. That is not my place. I would much rather a murderer get his knee bown out and be crippled for life, than take his life. Remember that Jesu's most devout follower, Paul was an ex murderer. Most of these people are derranged, they might even be posessed. Jesus teaches us that everyone deserves forgiveness. I don't think there needs to be more gun control personally. I belive there needs to be a movement from leading scientists to prove God exists. Science has already done this and I find athiests do not know what to say back on the subject. People need more faith and there needs to be some sort of change of mindset in society. Everyone is all about me. What can I get from this person. Everyone is selfish and totaly self centered. It's the moral compass of the country has gone to hell and its going to destroy us. People don't even value others lives anymore. Life is cheap now, able to be take over a pair of shoes or a dumb mistake.

    7. Chill Draggon's Avatar Chill Draggon

      Shifting the problem solely to mental illness is convenient but begs the question of how we prevent people iddntified as mentally ill from getting a gun, if they are intent on getting one. Certainly, we need to close the loophole that gun shows take advantage of. I think the NRA leadership have become multimillionaires by raising false alarms and a minority of gun owners buy into their rhetoric. We also need to prevent state legislators like those in NJ from passing laws that infringe on gun owners rights. Ratioal people need to look to compromise to protect innocents from death by him. I have suffered from PTSD for 47 years as a result of combat in Vietnam. I've killed more people with a rifle that in civilian life would brand me a mass murderer. After returning from Vietnam, I was the officer in charge of rifle marksmanship at s bootcamp Army Post. I regularly see a psychiatrist. Would you say I'm mentally ill? Should I not own a gun? What about an assault weapon? Gunshows allow me to buy serious weapons that have no use off the battlefield. My point is this...who is going to prevent me from buying more? who is going to take my guns away? There is no one solution. It needs to be a rational, logical compromise. I don't see a great goverment conspiracy to take our guns away. The evidence shows that people with guns kill. I have no solution to offer. But I see the need for the parties to sit down and calmly discuss their concerns. The age of caring about our neighbors is over, as are the days of muskets. God won't solve this, people will.

    8. Dan Dukes's Avatar Dan Dukes

      We as a nation are ever-increasingly being driven into a death spiral of indebtedness, mismanagement, purposeful chaos, and are displaying our expanding weakness to our enemies with a pride sufficient to promote strikes against us. That bright flash you might see will not be the face of God right before you are vaporized! Our progression down this ugly slope is purposeful and beyond pathetic...and it was voted for and we watch it like a fantasy movie.

    9. Scott's Avatar Scott

      If anyone thinks that the law is a substitute for a moral compass that is fostered by a family and church, they are sadly mistaken. And for the record the the author is incorrect on the 2nd amendment... A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed... The 2nd amendment ensures that The People can obtain arms in order to have a well regulated operated independently of and in spite of the government.

      1. Chill Draggon's Avatar Chill Draggon
        1. Thomas Jefferson supported rewriting the Constitution every 19 years, equated not doing so to being 'enslaved to the prior generation' . Had our founding father's advice been taken, we probably wouldn't have the comma controversy, nor would we have the right to bear muskets be interpreted as the right to bear assault weapons with armor piercing rounds.
        2. Our founding fathers were deists, not avowed christians. The word Creator can mean many things, nowhere in our nation's revered documents is god, Christ, Budda, Allah, Yahweh, etc. included or excluded.
          The so-called bible is an amalgam of various tales that even the original apostles couldn't agree on. Then the Roman church selected which tales were ok and which were not. The "bible" was rewritten for poltical reasons (viz.: King James) and copied by monks (who, of course, never, accidentally or purposely, changed a word here or there as they worked by candle light.
        3. Jefferson wrote his own personal version of the bible.
        4. Who's moral compass is THE MORAL COMPASS? Turn the other cheek or an eye for an eye? Maybe Joseph Campbell had the best advice: "Follow your bliss." And I'd like to be left alone to follow mine.
        5. Don't proffer your "bliss" as objective truth. Living on this planet has constantly informed us that everything is relative.
    10. Kathy Kovachick's Avatar Kathy Kovachick

      I am a strong believer in the right to bear arms. 2nd amendment. Break this amendment, it will not be long until all are broken. Are freedoms will be distoyed. These people that commit these heinous heart breaking crimes are not mentally ill. They are not of GOD. GOD DOES NOT ABIDE IN THESE POOR SOULS! THE DEVIL RESIDES IN THESE PEOPLE AND MAKES THERE SOULS HIS HOME! I believe this with all I am. The Devil walks this earth infiltrates who he can. All he needs is an opening. I BELIEVE THIS WITH ALL I AM!

    11. Olga's Avatar Olga

      Statistics do not support that more gun laws decrease violence. Quite the opposite. Ann Tracy PHD., book "Prozac, Panacea or Pandora Box", research shows mental health is indeed behind all of mass shootings . Remember the USA is great because of our God but also because we have sheepdogs who protect the sheep from the wolves.

  1. Rev. Hoagie's Avatar Rev. Hoagie

    "Statistics show that having a gun in your home no matter how it is stored significantly increases the risk of death for you and your family members by gun-related accident, suicide, or homicide while not decreasing the likelihood of you being a victim of a crime."

    This is demonstrably untrue and is refuted by FBI crime statistics. You really must stop parroting the talking points of leftist who want to disarm us.

    " The 2nd Amendment makes clear that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. It also clarifies that this right is for members of a well-regulated militia, not individuals."

    The Supreme Court has ruled otherwise and noted the "right of the people to keep and bear arms" means exactly that. To deny such is to show complete ignorance of both the Constitution and the meaning of plain English.

    "•In nations with much stricter gun control laws like France, Italy, UK, Finland, and Germany, the rates of gun homicides and suicides are substantially lower that in the U.S. •Australia banned most firearms and has not had a single mass shooting since doing so 1996. Overall crime rates are also lower now than when they had guns."

    Again you are not giving all the facts and I'm not going to teach them to you. I will state that if you remove the statistics for the top ten cities in the US, all run by leftist Democrats and which deny gun ownership our crime stats drop below Finland. It is the "gun free zones" and cities which cause the problem. You're crying about the 9 murdered in Oregon, how about the 18 murdered and 107 wounded JUST THIS LAST WEEKEND in Chicago, a gun free city?

    Finally, if you would be more comfortable in France, Italy, UK, Finland, Germany or Australia who not only have no right to bear arms they also have no constitution guaranteeing freedom of speech, the press, religion or guaranteeing property rights then I suggest you move there. If you are willing to trade your freedom for safety you deserve neither.

    1. Gomez's Avatar Gomez

      you don't seem to know why we have the 2nd amendment. It was not put here to defend against people changing the 2nd amendment, it meant to defend against infringements on other liberties. We have rights taken away by the Homeland Security Act. Where are the gun nuts? Nowhere to be found; not standing up for those rights. When the gun nuts like you simply THINK scary Obama might come for the guns, despite the fact he has never given any indication of doing so, there are rallies and people open-carrying into a Chuck-E-Cheese for no reason. If you aren't man enough to not have a gun, then if you must have one, use it for it is meant for. Don't you dare quote the 2nd amendment to anyone until you can show you know it is actually about.

      1. Rick's Avatar Rick

        Just because the 2nd Amendment gives us the power to fight against a tyrranical government does not mean we should start a revolution at the first sign of our rights being infringed and shame on you for suggesting that a "real man" would go off and do that. I agree with you about the open carry rallies being ridiculous, but the rest of what you said is bordering on inciting a riot.

        1. JG's Avatar JG

          Our Founding Fathers, a group of riotous, treasonous revolting revolutionaries who did exactly that I'm sure would disagree with you.

        2. The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti's Avatar The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti

          The second amendment does not "give" us anything. It simply acknowledges a God-given right that existed prior to the establishment of the US constitution. Recall that the American revolution started because the British wanted to disarm the colonists. Open carry and concealed carry are rights of free people. Slaves do not own weapons. Disarmament is a prerequisite of genocide.

          Gun deaths are down 30% on the US since 1993 due, in part, to more shall-issue concealed-carry laws in most states. The so-called "gun-free" zones are actually unarmed-victim zones which are magnets for criminals who will do not obey the law.

          When was the last time a mass shooting happened at a firing range, a police station, or a gun show? Criminals fear anyone who can shoot back, including the armed citizen. If anyone wants to stop mass shootings, support open and concealed carry. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

          “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his house, his possessions are safe.” - Luke 11:21

          May the Lord continue to bless the USA with freedom through strength.

          1. Frances LaMarca's Avatar Frances LaMarca

            Thank you Rev. Ceruti! Well said. Bless you. It is a God given right to be alive. I cannot think of any creature on this earth who would passively allow itself to be murdered. All living things fight to be alive.

      2. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

        Um, Casey, Hoagie wasn't saying that the 2nd amendment is just for militias, he was saying that is what the LEFT says. Hoagie correctly pointed out that the Supreme Court has already ruled that it is for individuals. I'm just pointing that out. I happen to be in actual agreement with both of you.

      3. wildbronco26's Avatar wildbronco26

        Casey, in order to understand the purpose of the Second Amendment you must look to the history surrounding its ratification and adoption: First the US had just ended a protracted war for independence from Great Britain, and the primary starting point of that war began with the attempt of the Government (General Gage of Great Britain) to disarm the Militia of Lexington and Concord Mass. Second of the states who initially made up the US after the Constitution was ratified, 9 had either requested a Bill of Rights guaranteeing the the right of the people to keep and bear arms. Third, James Madison on June 8, 1789 introduced his proposed Amendments to the Constitution at the First Session of the First Congress, his Amendment that we today call the Second Amendment read as follows: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed, and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person." The right of the individual preceded the militia clause for two reasons, the first is that militia members provided their own arms, not the State Government nor did a National Government. Therefore you could not have a militia if the individual citizens did not possess their own arms and munitions. The Second was to clarify the purpose of this right to prevent a future Government from disarming the Citizens and thereby destroying the Militia System. In addition Title 32 US Code defines the Militia as being the National Guard (Comprising the Organized Militia) and the Unorganized Militia comprising everyone else between the age of 17 and 45. However many states have carried forward with what is often referred to as a State Defense Force authorized under Title 32 US Code Section 109c, which gives each state the right to raise such a force so long as it is not under the Control of the States National Guard. So please become familiar with the reason behind the Second Amendment, and yes it is an individual right now Codified in not just the Bill of Rights but also in two separate US Supreme Court Decisions DC v Heller and Mac Donald v the City of Chicago et al.

    2. Rev Ed Diviny's Avatar Rev Ed Diviny

      It' s a shame this site would be dishonest enough to print the liberal anti gun talking points. The reason the second amendment addresses our god given right to keep and bear arms is to make it clear the importance the founders placed on insuring the ability of every citizen to protect every other right included in the Constitution from being trampled on. If you do not think it possible for the politicians in D.C. becoming a tyranical govt. You're not paying attention. Which is the main reason they included the 2nd in the bill of rights. How much complaint would there be if they started limiting what web site owners could say Without prior govt. Approval?

      1. Rick's Avatar Rick

        Amen! And for people who say the 2nd Amendment was for the Army, about 1/2 of the founding fathers didn't WANT a standing army because it was a danger to the citizens for the government to be armed. The only way they acquiesced was by guaranteeing citizens (the citizen militia) the right to arms. Also, if people are really trying to stop senseless deaths, stop drinking and driving. Vehicles and Alcohol kill tens of thousands more each year than guns. Those deaths are just as senseless and hit people just as randomly. I had 2 friends die this year from drunk drivers and another killed by a sober idiot driving with a suspended license. None of my friends died from guns and nearly everyone has guns here. If people aren't protesting the cause of the highest number of senseless deaths, they have an agenda and it's nothing more.

        1. Stephen Fisher's Avatar Stephen Fisher

          If you want to reduce gun violence, abide by the words "will not be infringed" and also legalize all drugs. About 60% of the gun murders are by gangs furthering their drug trade.

          1. Heather Gladman's Avatar Heather Gladman

            Well said Stephen. Respect from Oz (Australia). When the government here decided to make everyone hand in their guns, all it succeeded in doing was take away the guns from the good guys.

      2. Pastor Mark's Avatar Pastor Mark

        I totally agree with you I don't think the church should be involved in this debate .Its politics and the church should not be involved in politics.The church doesn't represent how most of us feel toward the 2nd amendment that I am a supporter of

    3. melinda's Avatar melinda

      i'll tell ya, people just don't get it. this whole thing was written by some leftist nut that made up what they wrote or got it from someone that was just throwing things out there. most is wrong and if they cared to get into some sites that know what they are talking about they might learn a thing or two, but that would be to scary, they would have to get out of their little world and see what is really going on.

    4. Stephen Fisher's Avatar Stephen Fisher

      Thanks for your post. Saved me from having to type all of that. Small quibble with your "love it or leave it" position at the end which is often thrown back at folks like us - small quibble.

    5. Iggles's Avatar Iggles

      If we remove cancer deaths from the top five cities, our cancer rate would be among the lowest in the world as well. Bad argument.

      Remember, when they come to confiscate your guns, it will not be some leftist politician but the military.

    6. Jim Satory's Avatar Jim Satory

      Thanks Hoagie,statistically well put!..Minister James

  1. William Thompson's Avatar William Thompson

    May God hold his precious hand over the souls that were lost, even the shooter. This tragedy was out of our control for whatever reason. One day in the shooters life a dark seed was planted and decided to show itself that day at Umpqua College. Asking their faith he systematically executed them honoring some unknown hatred that should have never been given birth. Was it his upbringing, his sad life story or was it inspired by todays anti-christian thretoric baffling the minds of our young people. We may wonder, but instead must move forward taking every precaution to protect the minds of our children with the love of God. Teach them the road they must take and stay the course. We must deliver unto the world children of God that understand the ten commandments. One of them reads "thou shall not kill". God bless us and keep us under your precious hand. Amen.

    1. Daryl Porn's Avatar Daryl Porn

      Amen Bill

  1. Randy's Avatar Randy

    I agree with Ronald up above. We live in a world full of guns and there is no escaping it. If there were more good people armed in these areas like schools and movie houses we could defend ourselves and stop all of these evil people from killing.


    1. Gomez's Avatar Gomez

      That's what they thought in Idaho so they allowed teachers to carry guns. A teacher accidentally shot his foot. That's all that happened. No armed teachers saved kids from a shooter. A gun accident happened and that's it.

      and yeah, people kill people, so why arm them?

      1. Randy's Avatar Randy

        I'm tryin to solve the killing problem, I'll save solving the US dumbass problem for another day.

      2. Rick's Avatar Rick

        Actually there have been several instances now where someone armed has stopped a school shooting. The national press just doesn't report it because it doesn't increase ratings. Happy endings don't make the news.

      3. Daryl Porn's Avatar Daryl Porn

        The second amendment is about killing each other. There usually is some person that know there is a chance the scooter might hurt someone. Let start saying something about our friend or family or acquaintance that has made comments that they may hurt someone. If we outlaw guns then when are we going to outlaw cars. A lot more people get killed in car accidents than with guns. Just thank about this. Are we going to outlaw baseball bats or our kitchen knives. This hole subject is pushed by the left and thank that making guns unlegal with stop people from killing others. I believe there percentages they stated is wrong they like to group shooting together to make there numbers look like these mass shooting is so big. But there numbers also include gang murders and drug murders. Which has nothing to do with these horable murders. Crazy people kill people. There is millions of people that own guns that never hurt anyone. If 4% is murdered by a gun then 96% is not.

      4. kc's Avatar kc

        thanks Casey for a rational response

  1. rfox44's Avatar rfox44

    We Sots do not need guns because the bad guys can not get them.Stop people getting guns and you be safe.

    1. Rick's Avatar Rick

      There are hundreds of millions of guns. And as evidenced in CT and NY nobody is turning them in and nobody is foolish enough to try to force them.

    2. Daryl Porn's Avatar Daryl Porn

      The bad guys will always have guns.

      1. Chris's Avatar Chris

        only in America

    3. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

      You Sots? I'm guessing you mean Scots. I actually used to live in Prestwick, Scotland, when I was a child.

      You said Sots don't need guns. Most days, I don't need a jacket, but any time I leave my house I carry a long-sleeved shirt or a jacket, because you cannot be sure you won't need it. I carry tissue, too, a multi-tool, and a pocket-knife and lighter. I've never needed a gun. Neither did my parents, but we've all always carried one. In our liberal environment, we MIGHT need them at any time. We will not let this nation turn into Zimbabwe.

      Scotland may be immune to these problems, because it's full of Scots, but here, we have all kinds of people, whose goodness has been assumed, but that assumption has not been proven correct. Our founding fathers said my right to be armed is absolute. I will defend that right, for the sake of my grand-children, and I will teach them to defend it as well. The Japanese did not invade our west coast because the Emperor was told that if they did there would be a rifleman behind every blade of grass. Just the hunters in our country outnumber most standing armies in the world. That does not include all of those who do not hunt, but do carry weapons.

      Carrying a weapon is not evil or cowardly. Neither am I. It means you are at least somewhat mentally prepared for the poop to hit the fan, which it might at any moment. Being shot by a nut was probably the very last thing any of these mass shootings expected to happen. They believed in the illusion of safety, because up to that point in time, it seemed true. Chances are, if I am in a similar situation to theirs, I may not get a chance to draw or fire. Hopefully, while I am being shot, someone ELSE will have a chance to draw and fire. If you were to try telling that no gun stuff to an Israeli, you would feel silly before the second word got out of your mouth, because you know in their environment, it would be a very silly thing to say.

  1. Rick's Avatar Rick

    Anyone who believes that a group of people, who just successfully overthrew their government because of their INDIVIDUAL, PERSONAL gun ownership, didn't intend for that individual right to continue and that only the military should have firearms is completely devoid of the ability to use contextual logic and shouldn't be bothered with. This site has become nothing but a slightly mild version of the HUFF Post comment section with huge amounts of misinformation, faulty logic, and everyone in favor of it - not because the owners of the site think this way, but for the same reason that the media only publishes stories about death, not people being saved - just for ratings. It's sad. Originally there was some actual thought and kindness being passed around. Now it's slander-and-debate-over-nothing central...

    1. Daryl Porn's Avatar Daryl Porn

      Very well said Rick

    2. Freedom's Avatar Freedom

      Precisely this. "Having thus defeated an oppressive government, let us hereby grant power to government".

  1. Pastor Davila's Avatar Pastor Davila

    Let's all pray together for the victims and their families of this horrible tragedy. My they find love, comfort and solace. . .

  1. Minister Rob's Avatar Minister Rob

    Is there any word on if the shooter had been bullied or psychologically abused by somebody? I think that may be a common factor in many of these kinds of incidents.

    1. The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti's Avatar The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti

      The common factor is that the criminal selected an area in which he knew that no one else would be armed. Unarmed-victim zones are very convenient for criminals. Left-wing politicians want them because they identify with other criminals and favor the destruction of the rule of law. To deter such crimes in the future, support shall-issue concealed carry with reciprocity in all 50 states and DC. Society is safer when criminals don't know who is armed. Pray for more freedom in America. We need it now more than ever.

  1. Sue Nicholai's Avatar Sue Nicholai

    Although our world shapes our thoughts and actions,It is our reponibility to guard our hearts and minds,If we teach our children and grandchildren that what we think on and the words we use are important and have power. He may or may not have been mentally ill.l He certainly didn't understand love inorder to embrace such negative aspects of power and control..Some personality are drawn to power and control their are many who are in our society with the samew personality who go into business politics ect.. Love is the answer,we need to notice the hurting people around us and show them a better outcome.

  1. Tom's Avatar Tom

    What interesting comments! So far, no one seems to have addressed what's seen as a universal issue in this country. Increasingly, there is little respect for the lives of others. Whether it be based on race, color, creed, sexual orientation, politics or religion. More and more people are disrespectful of any position other than their own. Just because guns are legal does not mean that I have to purchase one. If I own a gun, I can choose not to use it. Guns are a very impersonal way of harming someone else who is different that you are. A knife is more personal. You have to get up close to the person you hate in order to use it. Pulling a trigger is quite simple and a convenient way to put down those who are against us. After all the video games we have exposed our kids to, most of which have to do with killing someone else, is it any surprise that so many people fail to see the actual danger. If you have momentarily lost your senses and believe strongly enough in your position on life's issues to the degree that those who do not agree should be put out of their misery, then the problem is not guns. It is people! The art of the debate has disappeared. Cherishing the fact that diversity is what makes us all greater is a lost art. Somehow it has become easier to hate than to love. It is easier to be angry because now one understands you than to try to understand the one on the other side of the table. The "I am right and you are wrong" mentality has taken over. On the streets in cars, in classrooms, in homes, in businesses, in churches, everywhere. It seems to be "all about me". It has led to great paranoia among those who now firmly believe that the federal government is out to get them. That they are an island and their island is sacred, the government and anyone else who tries to tell them what to do can go to blazes. I can carry a gun to send the message, "don't mess with me"! All of which just alienates them further from the mainstream of our society. If I am in a store and someone comes in carrying a weapon, I leave the store. I do not even want to be near that individual. I do not go to open carry states for any reason. What a shame that I have come to feel,that certain parts of my own country are off limits because of the behavior of a decided few. I am not always right. I tend to respect every opinion even those opposed to mine. At least that is a opening to dialogue. But not any more. Now I tend to remain quiet and not engage in conversation lest that other person take umbrage with my opinions. Yes, I can still spout off on places like this and retain a certain degree of anonymity. Thank goodness! I no longer honk my horn at what I perceive to be idiots behind the wheel of other cars. I have had to go into hiding. In public I can no longer be who I am at the risk of ticking some one off who just may own a gun and not own all their senses. Is this the kind of society we want to live in? I dare say no. We need to return to our homes and teach our children that everyone has a right to think whatever they want and that we should respect that, even if they want to be Wyatt Earpp. But we must teach them to stand tall and strong for the good values we have tried to instill in them, even if they are living in a world that does otherwise. We need not worry so much about being governed by a government if we could only learn to govern ourselves. And that, my friends, is a very tall order.

    1. Jo Williams's Avatar Jo Williams

      Thank you. Of all the posts I have read so far, yours stands out. In fact I was so surprised to see so many gun loving enthusiasts comments on this site. What a relief to hear from someone with beliefs that make sense. Hopefully, many will read this and see guns are not the answer.

      1. Go's Avatar Go

        Almost as if the freedom practice one's own personal religion had not only an historical but a very present-day implication.

      2. Mike's Avatar Mike

        Jo: If guns are not the answer, then what is the question? (Seriously).

        For one, I don't believe all of Tom's assumptions. For instance, I don't think there is little respect for the lives of others nowadays (as compared to when?). I think people are just as concerned as they/we ever were (my assumption). However, I do believe we are undulated with news and data about the "bad stuff" due to our vastly increased modes of communications.

        There are other examples, but I always try to take generalizations with a grain of salt. "The sky has been falling" probably since the first man looked up and noticed there was a sky.

        As I mentioned elsewhere: America doesn't have a gun problem; America has a violence problem. But, historically, that is nothing new.

    2. Kelly W's Avatar Kelly W

      Well-said, Tom! It boils down to selfishness - and intolerance for other people. God put us here on Earth with other people for a reason. I understand the practice of Christianity to be "The art of loving the unloveable". And you are right about the impersonal-ness of just pulling a trigger vs. having to take someone out with your bare hands. These people are cowards, no one has taught them how to cope with life and other peoples' differences.

  1. Bryan Strawser's Avatar Bryan Strawser

    "The 2nd Amendment makes clear that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. It also clarifies that this right is for members of a well-regulated militia, not individuals. Read more at"

    This is completely false and not supported by any historical evidence or legal analysis. The Supreme Court made this clear in the DC v. Heller case as well.

  1. ed akin's Avatar ed akin

    May God forgive you for your ignorance

  1. Jerry Black's Avatar Jerry Black

    When you have a society that is in decline you need to look at the change in the direction of government. As government pushes for more power they push for a more secular society. Mankind in history has always looked for some kind of higher power. In secular societies ,you can research and find that the government is behind the push in order to gain more and more control and power. When people are drawn away from belief in God, there is a concerted effort to replace that belief with stronger faith in government. This is where our society is today, and until we bring respect, responsibility, and common sense back into our lives, nothing will get better.

  1. Steven J Frey's Avatar Steven J Frey

    Gun control laws are not effective on criminals and the mentally ill. They only serve to dis-arm law abiding citizens. I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon in Michigan, and as a law abiding citizen, I do not carry it into venues that are prohibited by law (bars, sports arenas, theaters, school campuses). I pray that the next time I am in a bar, sports arena, theater or school campus is do not need to protect myself, or my loved ones.

  1. Guairdean's Avatar Guairdean

    Ending the shooting sprees will require a two pronged approach. First, the stigma must be removed from mental health issue and treatment must be made available. Second, the media must be held accountable for turning the shooters into heroes. The media is only too happy to oblige them and spread their name and life's details to all who will listen. There are even trading cards dedicated to mass murderers and serial killers. If the press were only allowed to refer to the killer as "the cowardly micropenised killer" copycat killings would end. As for those blaming the inanimate object, please remember that the incident at Columbine was a failed bombing. The bombs failed and the two killers decided to start shooting. If the bombs had been successful, the deaths would have been in the hundreds. The bombs were mentioned in the media, but they weren't the report's focus. I shudder to think what would happen if the copycats begin to successfully use incendiary bombs as a starting point.

  1. J.Gorrell's Avatar J.Gorrell

    I'll agree with point 1,2 and 4 in your post above, but never 3. People advocating the complete removal of firearms from civilian hands are dubious at best and worry me more than the infinitely remote possibility that I or anyone I know will ever be threatened by an armed person. It's absurd to think that the Australian model would ever work here and, unless Heller vs DC is overturned, which won't be happening in the near future, then the Second Amendment DOES in fact guarantee my rights to own firearms and, indeed, the right to protect myself and my loved ones with them outside my four walls. Keep guns out of the hands of criminals by all means (as delusory as that is): OF COURSE. Keep guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens: NEVER.

  1. Gabe's Avatar Gabe

    "The 2nd Amendment makes clear that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. It also clarifies that this right is for members of a well-regulated militia, not individuals."

    Sorry, but this is just wrong - specifically that last sentence..

    The text reads: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

    Pay attention to the commas. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed because a well-regulated (read: "well-regulated" in the archaic sense, like a mechanically sound watch) militia is necessary to keep us safe. The Second Amendment absolutely guarantees the individual right to bear arms. It's right there in that second sentence clause.

    1. The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti's Avatar The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti

      Good post. Moreover, the militia consists of the people bearing arms. People come together in times of need to provide for the common defense, just as the states came together to form the union. It is interesting that the phrase "shall not be infringed" appears in the second amendment only and no where else. The founding fathers knew that governments would try to infringe on this most precious of all rights. "Well regulated" indeed refers to the fact that weapons must be in good working condition or else the militia is useless. Firearms need to be loaded also. Those who do not study history will be doomed to repeat it.

  1. CRAIG's Avatar CRAIG

    When you boil it all down, it's not about gun control. Not at all.

    It's about how people deal with their problems. We live in a society where it’s become commonplace to choose violence when we get frustrated with our lives don't go according to plan.

    Yes, in a lot of these shootings, the persons going on the rampage do have mental issues. Or, I guess you could argue that they do because they chose to shoot people in the first place. Either way, people are not coping with loss and disappointment in healthy, constructive ways. It becomes an “all or nothing” game and there are too many people that give up and choose to lash out.

    What we really need to do is to look at the “why,” and more intensively, and then begin to teach people alternatives to personal destruction.
    It feels like, in this country especially, we’re all about winning and succeeding, but we don’t teach our children and ourselves about how to lose and how to fail. I do not buy the slogan that you have to “focus on winning to be a winner.” Winning is not always about coming in first and taking the top prize. In fact, some of the best “wins” are small personal victories other people never know about you.
    Losing and failing is part of learning. Having children of my own, I see how the schools push kids to “succeed” and learn, but I do not know how much is taught about how to pull yourself back up on your feet after you fail. To my child’s teachers’ credit—the teachers my child has had have been very encouraging and not overly hung up on “perfection.” We as parents and members of the community need to step up and teach. Teach our children and our peers that everyone fails (I hate to burst the bubble, but we all do). We need to teach by talking to our children and teach by example about how to keep getting back up even when life knocks you down.
    Raging against other people for real or perceived wrongs, while it may achieve attention, it doesn’t solve the problem. For those who are even now contemplating the next mass shooting, realize that you are in trouble and ask for help. Tell anyone you trust, and if you don’t have that someone around find a doctor, a policeman, anyone—but get help for coping skills. For the rest of us, reach out and be there for someone who may be spiraling down that path. We’re all in this game of life together. We’re here to help each other. Not to judge. Craig

  1. Preacher mccoy's Avatar Preacher mccoy

    Do we not know what we do? The gun did not kill, the person behind the gun killed. The gun was the tool. Removing guns from citizens will not change what happens. Bad guys will be able to get one no matter how hard the government tries to remove them. Is it not what we see in the world enough to show how evil has imbedded intself everywhere. We do not need to harp about gun control but lather what could be done to prevent it!! We preach to sheep but not to wolves! Go to the hoods and bad areas and see how well accepted we are and see what happens ! While the christan faith is being killed off around the world we sit silent and do nothing about it. We need to stand for what we belive in and fight for it or one day it will disappear and be no more. Drive the demons from the world and eden will be born again. What do you fell in your heart after reading this? A little ptessure? You should. May god bless us all and be safe

  1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

    Broken homes and lack of religious upbringing contribute more to these incidents than any other single factor. I would venture to say that we are reaping the fruits of secularism. The absence of a moral father and mother who see that their children are schooled in the belief that certain behaviors are totally reprehensible has allowed one or two generations in some places to grow up without an acceptable moral compass, and therefore freed their mind to absorb whatever demented behavior tickles their fancy. The leftists' answer to the crime THEIR doctrines have created is to take freedoms from non-criminals. Their answer is always less morality, less religion, more gov't control. History has proven time and time again that lack of piety, general morality, work ethic, and individual responsibility creates an atmosphere where great societies come apart at the seams.

    How could we begin to remedy the current situation? A manageable first step would be to stop excusing crime. First of all, poverty is NO excuse, and never was. ENVY is what causes most crime. One person sees something another has, and thinks they have the right to take it if they can. Because they place no value on another's life, they think they deserve what the other person has.

    If children grew up knowing that armed robbers, kidnappers, molesters, rapists, and murderers were being put to death when captured and convicted, they would teach themselves NOT to think about committing those crimes. Punishment is not just vengeance, but is a teaching tool that has not been used effectively for some forty years or so in this country, due to liberalism and the incessant cries of victimhood on the part of the perpetrators. There is a greater good being ignored and oppressed here.

    People who do NOT steal, kill, maim, or otherwise bully others are not being rewarded for their good behavior, but are being punished with fear and expense, and sometimes hurt, robbed, and killed because those who commit evil in our society are NOT being punished to the level that will cause them to turn away from crime.

    I know my writings will conflict with the swill washing around in the brains of some, but if you talk to anyone who works in criminal justice they can tell you that the criminals think what they can get away with is right and if they don't get away with it, it is because of stupidity or bad luck. The battle for hearts and minds is won and lost in the home, church, school, and the courts.

    The people killed in these mass shootings are not the victims of the NRA or the Concealed Carry or other 2nd Amendment advocates. Their blood is on the hands of the liberal, progressive, socialist, anti-religious movement and its policies and practices since the 1950s.

    1. The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti's Avatar The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti

      Good post. Concealed-carry license holders are less likely to commit a crime than those who do not hold such licenses. It seems to me that if we want to promote more law and order, more people should apply for licenses. Better yet, have constitutional carry in all states. Crime would decrease rapidly. Everyone needs to have the option to be armed, not just the criminals. As usual, the left favors conditions that help criminals, with whom they identify.

      1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

        Historically, communities who pass laws requiring law-abiding adults to carry HAVE had drastic reductions in crime. The left completely ignores the facts about this subject, like they do about everything else-- VD, perversion, crime, economics, God. They want crime and all evil to multiply, while claiming to want to help everyone.

  1. JG's Avatar JG

    More liberal left-wing garbage from the heads of ULC. Might I suggest you and those that support this liberal junk move to a random Euroepan country of your choosing. I think you'll find the grass isn't always greener on the other side....

  1. JG's Avatar JG

    I love it how the President calls from tighther gun control while surrounded by armed Secret Service. Hypocrite much there Barry?

  1. James L Franey's Avatar James L Franey

    What an ignorant article posted by an ignorant author.

  1. Rev. Michael A. Yuhas's Avatar Rev. Michael A. Yuhas

    A gun is simply a tool. Like a knife or saw or automobile. People die in auto crashes everyday. We don't sue the auto industry for them unless the auto was defective. The only thing defective on a gun usually is the loose nut holding it.

  1. JD's Avatar JD

    You will notice that what it leaves out is most mass shootings are not done with legally acquired weapons either. Most are done with illegally purchased or stolen weapons, including the New Town shooting where he had previously been denied purchasing an AR from a local gunshop. But it is always funny how those things are left out of the fear mongering media and how the people preaching gun control do so while holding current CCWs and from behind armed body guards.

  1. Walter Green's Avatar Walter Green

    In discussions of the Second Amendment many assume that the right to bear arms and the militia are intended to protect the citizens from government. This is so historically incorrect as to be laughable. The Militia is now and always has been a military force called into being through the enactment of laws and at the order of the Governor of a state or the President of the United States. That happened routinely in various wars against native Americans, to suppress uprisings by slaves and other late 1700s rebellions against governmental authority, the War of 1812, and the first days of the Civil War on both sides. My family includes militia officers from the 1650s, the Tuscarora War of 1711, the War of the Regulation in 1768-1771, both sides of the Revolution, and the War of 1812. Their records of service and contemporary documents clearly show that they held government issued commissions and were acting on the orders of the governor or the President. The reason the Second Amendment states that a militia is necessary is clearly only for national defense, and that was based simply on the unwillingness of the early Congress to fund a meaningful standing Army, in order because of (first) fears that a standing army might force the Congress to actually pay the pay owed to Revolutionary War soldiers, (second) because the states were unwilling to come up with the funds to pay their share of a standing army, and (last) because of vague fears that a standing army would be used to coerce legislators. It was about the money. The right to bear arms phrase was important because state militia laws specified what arms a militiaman was required to have, and because a substantial portion of the militia simply did not own firearms. Contemporary accounts are full of examples where the militia had to arrange to borrow weapons either from the federal authorities or from other members of the community - one of the first requirements for recruiting Minutemen was that they had a firearm or could borrow when when needed. Before you argue about the militia and guns and the constitution, read the actual hand written record on the original paper - don't rely on political arguments or the comic book version of history.

    1. J.Gorrell's Avatar J.Gorrell

      Actually, if you read discourse from around the period, particularly the Federalist Papers, there is reason to believe that this is precisely what was intended (i.e. empower citizens to protect themselves against a potentially tyrannic government). At any rate, what's relevant in this discussion is the Supreme Court interpretation of 2A as laid out in Heller vs DC. Of course, that could be overturned at some point, but it won't happen any time soon.

    2. Guairdean's Avatar Guairdean

      You should refer to Title 10 Section 311 of the United States Code. The militia exists without the intervention of any government action. Supreme Court rulings state that when activated, the militia members should respond with their own weapons and these should be of a type commonly in use at the time.

    3. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

      Unarmed colonists could never have successfully mounted a revolution against the leading world power of their time. Do you think the King of England would have let them arm an ARMY? The wording, "the right of the People..., " is what you are missing. Because of your socialist leanings, you think "People" means "Government" or "Collective". THAT's where you are so far off. "People" means people. The right of the people shall not be infringed. A militia by definition is a volunteer, local group, like a volunteer fire department or a posse. The National Guard is called State Militia, but it is not. It is a branch of the US Armed Forces, with equipment and retirement benefits for those who are full-time. A militia is TOTALLY different. I admire your ability to read and write, but your take on the meanings of words is skewed kinda far to the left. Our founding fathers were not leftists, and neither were their documents.

  1. JR's Avatar JR

    Unfortunately the dialog is not about gun control, it is about the banning of guns altogether (as illustrated by the citation of the Australian crime statistics). As with much of politics this day, common sense and middle of the road discussions in which some compromise might be arrived at don't seem to be possible. While access to guns is part of the problem, the entertainment media glorification of guns and gun violence (even if to noble purpose) is a strong contributor to the situation. Most of us older folks grew up with ready access to firearms, but didn't conceive of mass murder followed by suicide.

    1. The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti's Avatar The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti

      Before we do anything idiotic like adopting the Australian system in the USA, we should ask the Australians whether or not they like being at the mercy of armed criminals. Ask them if they want to take more classes in how to stop a knife attack with their bare hands. The Australians warn us not to repeat their mistakes. Clearly, firearms are the best form of self defense and contribute to the defense of freedom in general. A free people is an armed people.

    2. Mike's Avatar Mike

      Keep in mind, as well, that the Australians only collected registered weapons or those freely-surrendered by its citizens. I would be willing to bet that there are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of UNREGISTERED firearms still in the hands of the Australian people. I have no proof, of course, but based on human nature....

  1. Stephen Fisher's Avatar Stephen Fisher

    Dr. Green Your post is so confidently written and so full of conviction while at the same time being so wrong. Please do some of the reading that you suggest others to do.

  1. Stephen Fisher's Avatar Stephen Fisher

    Try this one on:

    "A well educated population being necessary for the furtherance of freedom, the right to free speech shall not be infringed."

    Does this mean that you can only exercise your right to free speech if you are part of the population that is somehow defined as "well educated"?

    Anyway, as mentioned by others, the Supreme Court in Heller has already affirmed that the right is an individual right.

  1. Rev. David Wight's Avatar Rev. David Wight

    I don't understand why The Monastery keeps publishing opinions that they know are going to cause controversy with it's members. Aren't we all supposed to be above the political garbage we see every day in the media. How about The Monastery promoting peace and goodwill instead of dissention between it's members by printing opinions that bring us together to work toward a better world.

    1. J.Gorrell's Avatar J.Gorrell

      Couldn't agree more. I was frankly surprised to see this here.

      1. The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti's Avatar The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti

        Unfortunately, I was not surprised. ULC has had a left-wing bias from the start. This does not diminish the good things ULC does. We need to use the good and reject the bad, as always with ULC just like anything else.

        Personally I would like to see more discussions regarding the underlying truth behind all religions and less political bias against the freedoms we hold dear in the USA. The left-wing lies do nothing to promote mutual respect and brotherly love among members.

  1. Stephen's Avatar Stephen

    Hello, I am sorry to see the purported voice of a church, our church, spreading blatant lies and taking sides in political hypocrisies.

    Murder of the Month was a title in poor taste. The parroting of blatant lies and even questioning the laws of our land in an attempt to persuade others is reprehensible. To suggest that the decision of the supreme court regarding private ownership of firearms is incorrect is to put doubt in our minds regarding the legitimacy of that court and its decisions. Let me point out that it is that same court that the Hensleys faced all those decades ago, and it isthe decision of that court that gives credibility to this very church. To fall for the trap of questioning the decisions of the US supreme court is to begin unravelling the very fabric that protects the existence of the ULC.

  1. Dr. David's Avatar Dr. David

    The problem is very complex and it is a systemic, societal, issue. Emotionalism is a primary contributing factor, much more so than "mental illness". We have glamorized extremism and it has become the "face" of society.

    Some additional points include:

    We have tools in place that provide excellent practice for "killing" called video games that have equipped people, who have never shot an actual firearm, with both systematic desensitization to the concept of killing and the actual skills necessary to accurately fire a firearm. These "video games" use the same technology that is used in video based firearm training. Read Lt. Col. David Grossman.

    Then there is the data which is grossly misrepresented by those who want to enact more laws. Depending on which breakdown of the data one uses the overwhelming number of firearm use by criminals is in 8-12 major cities where "gun control" is the "toughest". If you eliminate those cities from the data set the U.S. has a very low rate of criminal use of firearms - primarily handguns. Then if you remove the people who were shot during the commission of a crime from the list of "victims of gun violence" the numbers drop even lower. Next separate out suicides, they are not victims of gun violence, they are suicides, and the numbers go even lower for "victims of gun violence".

    Objectivity and understanding of data sets, how they were collected, who determined what was included and why, when, where, etc. is grossly lacking in a society that is driven by "sound bites".

    Extreme emotionalism coupled with radical individualism are the driving forces of emotional fanaticism and are being perpetuated by mass media for multiple reasons, but primarily for money. These factors contribute significantly to an "us vs. them", "we're right - you're wrong" dichotomies that are extremely destructive.

    People do have the right to defend themselves and their loved ones from harm. I believe we also have the responsibility to protect those who are unable to protect themselves. If one chooses to be a pacifist and not protect themselves or their loved ones that is their choice also, but neither group has the right to dictate to the other what they can and cannot do in relation to protecting self and others.

    We should be promoting mutual respect and understanding for these positions.

  1. Ed's Avatar Ed

    Actually, yes, we do know he was targeting Christians, specifically. You may want to research your commentary, before actually posting. There are several collaborations, where if a person said they were Christian, they were shot in the head. If they said anything other than Christian, they were shot, often in the leg: Would we even be having this debate, if he was shooting Muslims? Doubtful. That would be all over the news.

    Before you go on about more gun control, perhaps you should be asking why 90% of those who are responsible for mass shootings--around the globe!--are people with mental health issues? We don't have a gun issue, we have an issue with people with mental illness not getting the help they need! The =family= of the Santa Barbra shooter reported him as having mental issues, =WEEKS= before the shooting. The police did nothing, despite numerous concerns voiced by multiple people. Then, the shooting happened.

    Here's something else to ponder: our government has said that they're giving arms to rebels in Libya and Syria, to "overthrow an oppressive government," yet they don't want Americans to be armed. Hypocritical, much? NSA illegal spying, billions being given to banks in the US and abroad, billions being given to every other military in the world, arming "rebels"--and in the case of Syria, they deserted, and gave their arms to al-Qedia!--with arsenal, and so forth. One may also wonder why Russia did more damage in 2 WEEKS to ISIS than the US did in 2 YEARS! Nope, can't see why any American would want to be armed.

    Now, let's address some issues that gun-control advocates love to quote.

    "Well regulated means arms are to be regulated." The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Examples:

    1714: "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world."
    1812: "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial."

    From the Oxford English Dictionary.

    "The right is only for the military/militia." Over 30 state constitutions specifically say individuals have the right to be armed, for self defense. Those rights, specifically for individuals, would not be possible, in those states' constitutions, if they were in opposition to the union's constitution.

    "The right only applies to certain types of guns. There were no high powered guns in their day." This is a fave, and brings a smile to my face. I present the Puckle Gun: This can be considered the "proto-type" to the gatlin guns that were used in the US Civil War, and later. It's high-powered, for its day, and came out more than 50 years before the 2nd Amendment was even thought of. There's a reason that they said "armed," as opposed to "muskets." They realized that everything changes over the cenutries. So, whatever arms are possible, the people to keep them are not to be infringed!

    16 cases of armed citizens stopping potential mass shootings from happening:

    Most Mass Shooters Pass Background Checks. FBI: Background check failed to stop confessed Charleston shooter from buying gun

    I'll close with the following, of what happens when people can't get a gun to protect themselves:

    When people can get a gun to protect themselves:

    We gun owners would rather be like the second, to where we can stop a group of attackers from killing us and our loved ones, than have psychos come in, and kill us. Cops CANNOT be everywhere, 24/7. Cops may be "minutes away," but when seconds count, it ain't enough.

    1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

      Good post, Ed. You did a good job of picking apart the liberal talking points. Seems if they were half as smart as they think they are, they would have figured all that stuff out for themselves. Maybe they have, but they aren't interested in truth or common sense at all. Poor things

  1. Russell's Avatar Russell

    STOP focusing on the guns and ask what Big Pharmaceuticals drug have these people been taking for months before they went into a rage. No one is pulling the curtain back to see what is really the cause, also the talking heads ( TV personalities), are not allowed to ask any real questions, there job is to read what is given to them. Believe it or not ,but these shooting are the new norm.

  1. eliud colbath's Avatar eliud colbath

    Obama just gave the Iran the nuclear pistol and he wants gun control laws. Law abiting citizens don't need this.

  1. Rev. F. W. Irvin's Avatar Rev. F. W. Irvin

    I am an Independent so I'm going to all over the place on this one. I am also an Iraq War Veteran so first and foremost, you will not take my guns from me alive! With that said, I collect firearms (when I have the money) and upgrade them as a hobby (when I have the time). I am not a very mechanical or hands-on person and when I joined the military, weapons nomenclature and functioning became a fascination. Now that I am a civilian, I do weapons research (both firearm and others) on a continual basis just out of curiosity and to keep current.
    The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution guarantees the right to keep and bear arms to maintain a well-regulated militia in order to ensure a free state. This has been interpreted many different ways. The way I interpret it, the Founding Fathers knew what happens when you disarm the common citizen and only allow government approved agents to carry and use firearms, or arms in general. In order to prevent tyranny from threatening the newly-formed United States of America, they entrusted their citizens with the ability and responsibility of keeping arms so if anyone threatened the country (foreign or domestic), they would be capable of defending themselves, and be able to repel the threat (Bachelor's in Criminal Justice specializing in Homeland Security).
    I am a firm believer in the Second Amendment and believe everyone should keep at least one firearm just in case. I'd rather have one and not need it than need one and not have it. Furthermore, I think our Country should not be anti-gun, but rather provide the resources to educate our Citizens on the meaning of the Second Amendment and find ways to promote gun knowledge and gun safety.
    Everyone has seen the movie Red Dawn (both versions) and I honestly think it is purely fiction. With as many people in this country who own guns alone, anyone who would invade the United States would only make it a few feet before being struck down in a hail of rounds. A situation such as this is a prime example of why our Founding Fathers specifically included the Second Amendment in the Constitution. Will it ever happen? It may; who knows? As for who can own or have access to a gun, I do agree more effort should be put forth in identifying mentally unstable individuals and finding a method to limiting, or eliminating their access to firearms. However, I do not feel it is right to penalize law abiding gun owners every time someone who is mentally unstable takes people's lives with a firearm. Murder is murder whether if it is with a gun, a knife, a car, or a pen (yes, it can easily be done). Thus, the government needs to focus more on who is holding the weapon rather than the weapon itself. You can take away all the firearms from every United States Citizen, but criminals will always have a black market. Before you know it, only criminals will have guns and law-abiding citizens will be defenseless.

  1. Dameon Keller's Avatar Dameon Keller

    Where this is a tragic case, the story contains an error. He wasn't a Nazi, he was a black Muslim, his skin tone was lightened in the media, look up pictures of his mother. This was an act of terrorism, that's why he only shot confirmed Christians. This was likely the first school shooting in which the motive of the gunman was NOT simply mental illness. And in cases in which it is, it is the meds and mental programming of the shooters that make them do what they do, not whatever "mental illness" they were "diagnosed" with by the licensed government drug dealers known as "psychiatrists" and "psychologists." The only way to stop these shootings is to stop the horrible chemicals - and programmers - that cause them from reaching the addicts.

    1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

      Dameon, I might just inject- adherence to Islam as it is being demonstrated to the world IS a mental illness.

  1. Bam's Avatar Bam

    Stop relying on gun-free zones!!!

    A gun free zone is a magnet for murderers who take advantage of the fact that everyone inside is expected to be legally disarmed. (Of course, criminals don't pay any attention to what is legally allowed, while most law abiding peaceful citizens do.)

    Gun free zone's kill!!!

    Anyone who sets up a gun free zone is therefore liable for assuring the safety those who enter unarmed and thereby trust pronouncements that such areas will actually remain gun free (which of course nobody can ever guarantee).

    Gun free zone's kill!!!

    1. Mike's Avatar Mike

      Question: Do you really think gun-free zones are a magnet for criminals? Any data on that claim? I think gun-free zones are a danger to law-abiding citizens, but as to how many criminals uproot and move to this cities... I wonder. For those gun-toting thugs who already live in a gun-free zone, it's a gift from the liberals.

  1. Mike's Avatar Mike

    America doesn't have a gun problem; America has a violence problem. "Gun control" is a smokescreen for "people control". Unfortunately, the ones will need to be controlled cannot and will not be controlled. Only responsible people need fear the law; the lawless ignore it.

  1. adamsg600's Avatar adamsg600

    I would like to take a different approach. Whatever we focus upon, we bring more of to us. Instead of focusing on the killings and how bad they are and how we need to protect ourselves and our families, why not focus instead on the good we want for ourselves, our families, friends and all mankind. Focus on all the good that is and can be done. Do not allow someone else's bad thoughts and feelings to get in the way of us creating a positive, peaceful life for ourselves, our families, friends and all we can reach.

  1. Frances LaMarca's Avatar Frances LaMarca

    So much of your information is inaccurate. The Supreme Court clearly stated the 2nd Amendment is an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT as upheld in the most conspicuous case; the Heller case. Also, with regard to the confiscation/buyback of firearms in Australia in 1997, the overall crime rate was reduced, but the VIOLENT crime rate increased by about 400% in the first year. There was a 5% average growth in assaults for each year from 1995 to 2007. The incident of armed robbery compared robbery never increased after the ban, as if the ban made it easier for robbers to rob. People murdered by knives increased after the gun ban! Presently, Australians have bought themselves back to firearm ownership that is close to being equal to ownership prior to the government confiscation. Firearm suicide and accidental deaths dropped in Australia. As for Europe, with the influx of refugees entering, especially Austria, gun sales have skyrocket due to the fear of an unknown terrorist element. And in European countries with a culture of hunting, EVERY home has a firearm. The problem in this country is a government that wants to control it's population and make them totally dependent upon said government. Instead of posting armed security in Gun Free Zones, they have posted signs stating such. Instead of enforcing the present gun laws, educating the uninformed public about the requirements and procedures for obtaining a legal pistol permit and the procedures for purchasing firearms, they preach about the need to disarm everyone. Last week, a suicidial nut job ran her car into a crowd of people at a parade. Seven people were murdered. The talk wasn't about the Nissan Optima she used to kill, it was about her mental illness. As members of the NRA, as an attendees at numerous gun shows and competitive events, I have never been worried about being harmed by a gun. On the other hand, when we travel and are not allowed to carry, I worry about some crack head thief taking away my life because our government sees fit for it's citizens to lay down our rights for a handful of people who will find a way to hurt and kill others regardless of the tool.

  1. Rev. L. J. Werner's Avatar Rev. L. J. Werner

    Your bullet point reflects a mis-interpretation of the 2nd Amendment: "The 2nd Amendment makes clear that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. It also clarifies that this right is for members of a well-regulated militia, not individuals." In fact, in the parlance of the times when it was written, the term "well-regulated militia" meant an effective militia well-versed in the use of arms, not a militia that was regulated by some governing body. Further, current federal code differentiates the unorganized militia (made up of individuals) from the organized militia (national guard). Further, recent Supreme Court rulings have held that the Second Amendment applies to individuals. That said, I personally believe that no solution to this problem can be found in any secular action. Rather, the world is crying out for healing via Divine Love, and all of us can contribute to that healing through prayer and kind action in the world.

  1. billy's Avatar billy

    I am Rev Smith I teach fire science at the Umpqua community collage I live 1 mile from their and am friends with Chris Mintz. It was a sad day for us here in Roseburg and in the nation. Here in Douglas County, OR we like our gun rites i will protect my family with a gun always. i don't believe that guns are to blame its the bad people who do evil and nothing will stop them from doing evil guns or no guns.....

  1. Bob Biddle's Avatar Bob Biddle

    If someone hasn't already noted this, the Supreme Court ruled that the 2nd Amendment applied to the People and not just a well-organized Militia. Score one for the people!

  1. Rev. Kevin Mitchell's Avatar Rev. Kevin Mitchell

    My congregation will have open carry encouraged. The Shepherd has plenty of sheep, He could use more sheepdogs.

  1. John Owens's Avatar John Owens

    I am encouraged that this blog has not been given over to sheeple. We must realize there is a great spiritual warfare being waged against us, of which we are physically unaware. We can only see the manifestations of that warfare in the fruits of the different societies which make up the world, including our own. We can hear the voice of Satan trying to fool us by sounding concerned and semi-rational when liberals speak. We can see how he has convinced us as a nation to legalize the murder of the innocent unborn and NOT to murderers to death. A muslim does not have to do his job delivering beer but a baker MUST cater to an unholy union. We must stand against the trickery and defend what God has given us or it will all be taken.

  1. Catherine Venis's Avatar Catherine Venis

    I don' t understand what the gun lobby is afraid of. The government is not the enemy. Hunting is evil. I personally will boycott the states with loose gun laws. They allow gun traffickers to bring guns into urban areas. where only criminals want them. The Founding Fathers were very specific that the right to bear arms is for a well-regulated militia. If you are not in the National Guard, the armed forces or a police officer, you do not have the right to bear arms.

    1. Guairdean's Avatar Guairdean

      Does that mean that you have no right to free speech if you aren't a member of the news media? Title 10, section 311 of the United States Code disagrees with your definition of the militia.

    2. The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti's Avatar The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti

      Dear Rev. Venis,

      There is nothing wrong with your opinion that history lessons and shooting lessons can't fix. What you call the "gun lobby" is what most of us call civil-rights organizations. A government that protects our rights and our property is not the enemy. A government that infringes on our rights is out of line and must be corrected. People created government to serve them, not the other way around. The second amendment is not about hunting. I don't know what you call "loose gun laws," but if shall-issue concealed carry is any indication, the states without this are in a single-digit minority. If you want to live in a place where guns are not allowed, there are plenty of places in the world where rights are restricted. Try the UK for instance.

      The part about the well-regulated militia in the second amendment is in a subordinate clause. The main clause clearly states that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The unorganized militia consists of the people bearing arms. No where in the constitution or in any of its amendments does it state that only people in the National Guard (the organized militia) may bear arms. If you continue your historical studies, you will find that many times, armed forces and police were the only ones bearing arms. Examples, include Stalinist Russia, Nazi Germany and Communist China. We know that under these governments, millions of unarmed and defenseless people were slaughtered because they had no effective means to fight back. An armed people is a free people. Free people own weapons. Slaves do not own weapons.

      Please do not be afraid of guns or the people who carry them. People with concealed-carry licenses are 6 times less likely to commit a felony than police, and 13-times less likely to commit a crime than those who do not have such licenses. No one with a concealed-carry license wants to lose it. More honest people carry weapons than criminals. Society is safer when criminals don't know who is armed.

      To overcome your fear of guns, I recommend a class in gun safety. The NRA has been on the forefront of gun safety and regularly conducts classes of this type. You will see that the majority of people with guns are very nice and willing to help you get started. Go to the range a few times. When you are familiar with guns you will see the advantage in being armed and you can overcome your fear. Also, trust in God and pray to him. God helps those who help themselves. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

      1. Olga's Avatar Olga

        The mass killings in Paris,France, where citizen's are not allowed to carry to protect themselves, shows us what happens when we are defenceless.

    3. randy's Avatar randy

      if you believe hunting is evil you are delusional! God put the animal on the earth to feed us ! secondly the second amendment doesn't read as you and liberals would like it to! the first part talking about a well formed militia is the authority for a national guard and for the citizen guard . the second part says the right of the people it deals with the individual citizens right to bear arms! The first deals with the right of the stage to be able to protect itself from the other states in the union forcing their will on them! the second deals with the right of individual citizens to carry this is two fold one to hunt so they can feed their family and secondly so they can stop the state leaders from usurping authority and not following the will of the people

  1. Roger Hittle's Avatar Roger Hittle

    The 2nd Amendment Ratified December 15 1791 States" A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, The right of THE PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall NOT be infringed" The statement in the article stated that the right is for the militia that is false the right is to the people. Not to a government, but the PEOPLE. if it was for a militia only, the Government (operating the militia) would have control. The founding fathers of our country knew that the government could be controlled by a few (King George etc) The people fought that government but the Militia started as the PEOPLE, farmers, shop keepers, teachers, layers even the wives and mothers, brought their personal guns to stop the unjust Government from imposing the will of the Government on the people. Our country is not the Government but " WE the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, Establish , Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common Defence, promote the general Welfare and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity. do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America'. The 9th Amendment states "the enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people". So the right to keep and bear arms is to the People. We have gun laws that need enforced. The health issues need addressed more. If you say that a person with a gun kills so all guns are bad and need controlled. Then we should apply the same to cars ( more people are killed by cars than guns each year). Yes the car is a tool, like the gun is a tool. When a tool is used right then it is a good thing. When used wrong it can be deadly. You can put a hammer and a gun on a table they will not jump up and attack anyone. It takes a person to make the hammer kill and also a gun to kill. So it is people not the gun that kills. Health issues need addressed. History has shows that when a government can impose their will on the people 6 million Jews went to their death. That country had gun control laws that kept guns out of the hands of the people. I have a state issued concealed firearms permit, I carry a gun often. I work in the healthcare area and under the law I can not have a gun at work but I have one in my car. I keep myself well trained in the use of the gun and keep it well maintained. I might be an ordained minister and do not want to do harm to others. But I will not allow myself to be harmed or others around me. I have 20 years of military service. I lived overseas and saw first hand what unjust governments can do. I will keep my guns. God has given me the rights stated in our constitution. But it is the Constitution and all 27 Amendments that protects these rights. That includes the first Amendment " Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." I have taken an oath to support and defend this constitution. All of it, to do so I might need my gun.

  1. Roger Hittle's Avatar Roger Hittle

    You are wrong! it states "the PEOPLE" not the militia "have a right to bear arms"

  1. Rev Ned's Avatar Rev Ned

    In the 18th C. "well regulated" meant "well trained in the infantry drill regulations". Words change over time. Thinking "well regulated" means "well controlled" is the same as thinking "Don we now our gay apparel." has something to do with dressing in drag.

    Earlier someone commented that the Rev War was fought because the Brits wanted to take our arms. Actually, our aristocracy revolted because of the taxes that the Crown imposed on us to pay off the debt incurred defending the colonies in the French & Indian War.

    G. Washington started the F&I War in 1755 and later was the general in charge of our Rev War forces.

    He truly is "The Father of Our Country".

  1. The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti's Avatar The Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti

    Dear Rev. Brubeck,

    Thank you for pointing out that words have had different definitions in the past. I posted that the Revolutionary War started because the British came to take the guns away the guns. Actually it was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was the match that lit the firewood and tinder that was already arranged in a heap and ready to burn. Many other "logs" were already in place. Gun confiscation was really only one of many problems that the colonists had with British rule. The colonists made a list or grievances and sent it to King George III in an effort to avoid a revolution. The revolution actually was a last resort. You are right that taxes were unreasonable and unacceptable, especially without adequate representation. President Kennedy said that those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable.

    This country was founded based on the principles of freedoms to exercise our God-given rights. Government exists only to protect our property and our rights. Government ought to be vigilant to ensure that no one ever infringes on our rights. Freedom and liberty ultimately are the reasons for America's success. If governments deviate from their acceptable role, they need to be corrected before more damage is done.

    If we let go of God and stop trusting in Him, the result will be the decline of our great nation and the deterioration of a free society. Please join me in praying for America and for our future leaders, that they should have at least a modicum of integrity.

    God bless you and your family.

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