Gay couple adopting a child
Tennessee lawmakers argue that faith-based organizations should have the right to refuse families that don’t meet their moral standards.

Adoption agencies in Tennessee may soon be allowed to prevent same-sex couples from adopting a child from their system if it conflicts with the organization’s religious beliefs.

HB 836 would allow licensed adoption agencies in the state to refuse to place a child with a family if doing so violates its “written religious or moral convictions or policies.” It would also prevent the Department of Children’s Services from opposing any decisions based on religious objections, and grant adoption and child placement agencies immunity from discrimination lawsuits.

The bill passed an initial hurdle in the House of Representatives last week and will now go committee – even as fierce opposition builds from LGBTQ advocacy groups.

Backlash – and Warnings of Consequences

Tennessee Democrats and LGBTQ advocates have expressed outrage at the proposed policy, calling it a step backward that will ultimately hurt needy kids.

“We have children across this state looking for loving homes,” explained Rep. John Ray Clemmons, D-Nashville. “Why are we wanting to do anything to prohibit a loving couple or a family of any denomination, any religion, any moral conviction from being able to care for a child and take it in and provide for it? We have got to stop discriminating against people. We have gone far enough.”

Others have echoed this concern, pointing out that there are already an overabundance of children living in foster care, and many never get adopted. In fact, the average age of a child in the foster care system is 8 years old – far older than the typical couple seeking to adopt will consider taking in. By removing opportunities for same-sex couples, critics argue, these numbers will only get worse.

Faith Flexes its Muscles

However, conservative lawmakers in Tennessee argue that this is a matter of religious freedom, and that faith-based organizations should not be forced to work with families that don’t meet their moral standards.

“What we’re doing is saying if you have a religious faith, we as a body are going to intervene before the courts do and we’re going to stand with you and say we will stand with you in tolerance and allow you to be you.”

While Tennessee’s attorney general determined in 2007 there was nothing in state statutes preventing gay and lesbian couples from adopting children, this most recent legislative effort appears to be the fruit of religious lobbying efforts involving the Congressional Prayer Caucus Foundation, a group which claims its goal is to “bring back God to America.” 

Shaky Legal Ground

But there is another legal issue to consider: many Tennessee foster care agencies work on government contracts, meaning the proposed legislation may result in these agencies using taxpayer dollars to discriminate against same-sex couples. If so, legal experts don’t expect it to hold up in court.

Chris Sanders, executive director of the Tennessee Equality Project, believes this bill “clearly opens the door to taxpayer-funded discrimination in foster care and adoption.” He continues:

“If this bill becomes law, same-sex couples, people of various religious beliefs, and people with no religious beliefs now face the prospect of being turned away from adoption agencies that they helped fund because they are labeled morally or religiously objectionable, which leaves children and youth with longer wait times for permanent homes.”

Even if some believe that God should have a say in determining suitable candidates for adoption, it’s hard to fathom how anybody with a religious bone in their body could deny the multitude of kids in foster/adoption care the chance to find a pair of loving parents.

Does God really hate gay people so much that he’d rather foster kids grow up without a stable family?


  1. flugo says:

    l. God hates homosexuality, not the homosexual!
    2. A gay couple raising a kid is NOT a ‘stable’ family!
    3. Homosexuality is an abnormal, perverted and lifestyle.

    1. Don says:

      1. Gods are myths
      2. Phlegmo wouldn’t know a ‘stable’ family if it ran him over.
      3 Phlegmo is an abnormal, perverted little man who needs to grow up.

      1. Laurie Cleveland says:

        Actually Don, God/Goddess is not a myth. It is a real force. We humans, being the imperfect creatures that we are tend to worship Him/Her in various ways, which I think is a good thing. I believe that they are so many different religious because God chose to appear differently to each group. We are sort of all colors of the rainbow here. The flood was real. It happened when the poles shifted. If it happened because the world was so wicked,and He/Her got totally PO’d, then God help us because this world is in seriouis, serious, serious trouble right now and ignorance and the inability to not allow another person or people the right to see creation and the Creator or IAM as they choose to see it just shows us that you can see the splinter in other people’s eyes, but you can’t see the plank in your own. Think about that one for awhile. There is no room anymore for hate. That is what you are spouting out of your mouth Flugo, nothing more than slimy hate. You can either continue on your pathway and find out the Truth after you die or you can start now by understanding and learning about different religions and different groups of people. I think your congregation would be very grateful if you did, because, right now, if I had to sit and listen to one of your sick “fire and brimstone” sermons, I would probably excuse myself and walk out and pity you and your parishoners.

        1. Don says:

          A real force? Then you have real evidence to support its existence.
          And you’re seriously claiming the Flood was real? Oh goodness.
          Evidence for your claims please – otherwise, purple fairies created the universe 2 weeks ago.

          1. Gary Minnis says:

            Your ridiculous. If you believe nothing why are you here? Where is your proof that God/Goddess doesn’t exist?

          2. Stoodie Baker says:

            Gary-That’s not how evidence works. You can’t prove something doesn’t exist or didn’t happen. When I was a kid, I had super strength just like Superman. I hit a baseball so hard it left the planet and went into the Sun. That’s a ridiculous claim, that anyone with any sense of reason would dismiss as false. However, you cannot prove it didn’t happen, but common sense governs most people except when it comes to their favorite deity.

          3. Dr. David Griffith says:

            The flood did happen. Too many different groups around the world have stories in their culture about a flood to believe it was not real. Now, what is a flood? Did the word get changed from something else in the interpretation of the Bible? Perhaps, it was just so much rain that rivers flooded their banks, like what has happened recently in the Midwest of the USA.

            I also do not believe their is a God and I respond back to those that ask for me to show proof there is not with, “prove their is.” I never get a answer that can be proved through science. It is always a believe because I tell you.

          4. Malad City says:

            It’s just like saying, prove you love your wife or your mother and father, the proof is in your Testimony and your humble heart to recieve the Holy Ghost into your heart and life, the proof is in your humility to open your heart and pray to your Heavenly Father in the same way, I promise if you do, it will change your mind .

        2. bakoa says:

          A real force. Mass x Acceleration. Action Reaction, Power. Now, God is an emotional force meaning it is as real as your emotion. So take the box that you claim moves by god in your imagination. You swear it moved and you get enough people who say they swear it moved and you guys form a group that have the emotion that a force called god moved that box that never moved. You vilify anyone that says there is no motion and you tell yourselves they are going to an imaginary hell, God is your emotional force that even a a dog thinks dont exist, but Ive never spoken to a dog but my dog dont pray, that I know. Read Numbers 31. Tell me, those 35,000 virgins taken into slavery is that the power of god? All those baby boys slaughtered, all those men women and boys. That is the true force of your emotional god. The urge to murder snd enslave another. Are wolves worshipping when they howl? Or are you saying you are a better living thing than my dog? My dog is a living breathing loving being. Tell me

      2. Laurie Cleveland says:

        Don, The Bible has been re-written I don’t know how many times, and every time that it has been re-written, things are taken out of it or the wording changed. Furthermore, people love to take a small quote out of The Bible to make their point, but what it was part of had been removed centuries before. For instance, we were all told that Mary Magdalene was a whore or worse. She was anything but. The Celestine Bible, which is a different sect tells in very easy to read English that she and Yeshua were wed at The Marriage of Canna. Furthermore, there is more and more Truth being found almost everyday now. Why is that? Well, because there was so much that was hidden from the average person. The Pope got Constantine to go to Egypt and torch the library at Alexandria where many scholars went. They then continnued on up the Nile torching and killing monks along the way. Enough of them got word ahead so that not all of the scrolls were destroyed and these we are finding in sealed jars. Unfortunately, time hasn’t been particularly good, but there is enough evidence to say that, while some of The Bible is correct, because so much of it has been removed and with all of the re-writes, along with whole books being removed from it such as Enoch for one (which has 3 different versions), A friend of mine, who is Muslim said, “The Qu’ran is more accurate because it has never been rewritten.” I’m not quite sure about the accuracy, but he did have a point. You are obviously going on what has been spoon fed to you since you were little. I had an epiphany when I went to nursing school the first time and I realized that I could either remain ignorant or I could learn about different religious and ethnig groups, etc. or I could continue on in the same pathway, which was narrow and you couldn’t see the forest for the trees. Just think about that Don. You have the right to your opinion, but you cannot dis anybody in such a crude way if you truly believed what you preach, because your message would be couched in love, not hate. You’ve a lot to learn and little time to learn it. May the Goddess/God or IAM bless you.

        1. John Owens says:

          Some people are a god (with a little g) to themselves, Laurie.

          1. Don says:

            And some people make claims, refuse to provide any evidence for those claims, then spew insults at anyone asking for evidence.

            Right, John?

          2. Don says:

            And some people are too cowardly to respond directly, and sneak their insults into another person’s comment thread.
            Hiya Johnny! Find that evidence yet?

          3. John Owens says:

            Gave ya that GD evidence several times, Donkey, but you insist I didn’t. Same as the extra-biblical evidence of Jesus’ existence. You just pretend it isn’t evidence. Makes you look pretty damned stupid.

      3. Malad City says:

        I will enjoy being there to meet you in Heaven with open arms and love, Our Heavenly Father loves nonbelievers to .

        1. Malad City says:

          I’m surprised that all these negative comments from everyone is coming from a Christian society, we should be responding to comments with Understanding and Intelligence not with hate and ignorance, Love thy Niehbor and respect one another, God bless.

        2. preacher richard h. says:

          As of now He wont GET TO HEAVEN
          The ONLY WAY is through FAITH in our Lord JESUS CHRIST
          and he thinks he is a MYTH.

          1. Lionheart says:

            If there really is a heaven, which I doubt, I’m thinking that few Christians on this blog, because of the way they write abusive and unloving comments to people, will get there. Just saying!


          2. preacher richard h. says:

            I cant speak for all Christians But not ALL on this Blog are or claim to be Christians
            Christians know the difference, Even the Devil knows the Holy Scripture.



    3. David says:

      The question shouldn’t be is it legal, the question should be is it in moral for gay couples to adopt children. According to the Bible, I would say not. Homosexuals will raise her children thinking that the homosexual lifestyle is normal, which is a lie from the pits of hell!

      1. Peter M (@zobva) says:

        No David, what YOU are saying is the lie from the pits of hell.

        You make the mistake endemic among many of today’s haughty, self-righteous Evangelical Christians: cherry-picking verses from the old Jewish law in the Pentateuch that fit with your own personal paradigm of what you think God *should* have said and done instead of what he actually did do and say. And in doing this you are nailing Christ to the cross all over again.

        The whole point of His earthly ministry was that it was literally impossible for people to adhere to the plethora of old Levitican laws to achieve Godly perfection, so He made the supreme sacrifice of sacrificing His own Son, the Lamb of God, who took ALL the sins of the world upon himself. It’s very sad that many Christians such as yourself don’t understand that gift. You seem to want to keep qualifying it because you don’t really believe it. You can readily accept that the blood of Christ covers all *your* sins, and continues to do so — but you cannot accept the same thing for others.

        “Man lying with man” in Leviticus is not differentiated from wearing mixed fabrics (cotton and wool), eating meat and dairy with the same utensils, cutting your beard, not growing your hair on the sides, not isolating your wife and daughter in a tent when they are menstruating, etc. All are sins worthy of death. And yet you would single out homosexuals — who are simply the way God made us — for eternal torment merely because of your own human prejudices, fears, or lack of understanding.

        I am a Christian. And I am a gay man. Paul said that “Whosoever believes will be saved.” i believe Christ died for me, just as He died for you. Unfortunately you don’t feel the same; you apparently simply don’t have a grasp on the amazing grace of God’s love.

        I know you will say, “But you cannot be a Christian and knowingly keep sinning.” And yet you do just as everyone does. Because there are none righteous according to basic Christian doctrine. Should you be put to death or not be served in a restaurant if you wear a polyester shirt with cotton slacks? Your condemnation of LGBT brothers and sisters is just as ridiculous. You simply fear that which you do not understand.

    4. Minister J. says:

      A gay couple raising a kid is more stable than a Straight couple just having kids to get on welfare… second the kids that are adopted are at least in a good home. Unlike most kids in the straight world whom are taught to hate and discriminate against all others. The kids raised by gays are taught to love all.

      I find kids with gay parents have a better live than Kids with straight parents.
      Being gay is not a choice or lifestyle. I myself as a ordained minister am living proof being born with the XXY chromosome and yes I’m all Male and yes I’m a gay Male not by choice but born this way.
      With medical proof being gay is nothing new it’s been in the world for many years if social security can recognize gay marriges then everyone should .

      1. Joni says:

        Absolutely agree they offer so much mire because they know the hurt, words cause! They know what it feels like to be judge. They offer compassion, love, time, understanding.

      2. REV. BIGSBY says:

        i agree with minister j. comment, being both transgender myself & grown up in the foster system, if i had of had choice id rather be in a stable lgbtq family enviroment than any form of crazytown one ! my life has literally been destroyed every way to sun. ! its never stopped not in over 40 yrs ! , i didnt come out trans til about 2yrs ago, so i know it wasnt for that ! most kids shouldnt even be in states custody period ! Rev. Bigsby

    5. Dudley Baker-Beall says:

      In the UK, the Equalities Act 2010 resulted in the closure of a Catholic adoption charity a friend was involved with running. They were placing children whose natural parents were Catholic, but were unable to support them, with new Catholic parents who were unable to have children. This seemed to me a reasonable way to resolve two problems, and hopefully give the child a good start in life. It seemed to me unfair that the charity would be deemed to be discriminating if they failed to offer babies to non-Catholic couples, as the charity was solely funded and supported by Catholics.
      Is a Church that supports its own flock to be condemned of discrimination? There is a dilemma here, however much we abhor discrimination of any kind, between supporting our neighbours and being compelled not to, as it may offend others.

    6. Tom Kay says:

      Religious organizations should not be forced to put children into families that conflict with its doctrine.

      If the church’s definition of marriage is a man and s woman, it does not need to operate outside of this definition.

      Although the current social includes homosexual relationships, the core belief of the church does not change based on social norm.

      1. flugo says:


    7. Dr David Griffith says:

      At the very least they want the children. All of the Christians scream about abortion being wrong and save the “children,” but once that child is born no one cares about it. There should be no child without a home because Christians that are anti-choice should be adopting all of the unwanted children and raising them with love, respect, and proper financial support through an undergraduate education, or what the child chooses to do after high school. Again, people who want to raise the unwanted children should be allowed too because Christians are not doing it. Where is the love you so often speak about?

      1. Tom B says:

        David…i totally agree…unfortunately, hypocrisy does not bother opinionated persons…Peace… Tom B

    8. Thomas Lippert says:

      Yes, yes, yes.

    9. Mary says:

      God isn’t real and you’re a nonce

    10. bakoa says:

      Nothing exists Without prior knowledge. Everything needs a pattern from which it comes to be. So if a person is gay that gay behavior did not manifest from thin air unless humans are gods and we create something. If we can create behavior out if thin air then we are gods otherwise god too has gay in it from which the human gay came from. So to say man is born sinful is to say god is sin, otherwise is to say man creates sin in which case man is god because man creates sin. You see the pagan in religion now? Any religion really is Paganism because it is blind belief without logic. A grain of logic blows up a mountain of faith.

      1. preacher richard h. says:

        Adam was created without sin until he disobeyed GOD an eat from the tree of knowledge, he an eve were banned from the garden of Eden,
        Hence forth all men were born into Sin Penalty for Sin is Death ,To be cast out of GODS Grace an Light.
        It took Gods sacrifice of Jesus One without Sin to Pay for the Sins of Man . we are only redeemed through Faith in Jesus Christ

        Homosexuality is a Choice Man makes not God
        just say you wont be Gay Just for today
        Say that every morning an you can recover.

  2. The Rev. Brother Robert Barker says:

    Michigan has outlawed such discrimination. EXCERPT: Faith-based adoption agencies in Michigan that benefit from taxpayer funding will no longer be allowed to legally turn away same-sex couples or LGBTQ individuals based on religious objection, under the terms of a settlement in a lawsuit alleging the practice constituted discrimination.

    Attorney General Dana Nessel reached the settlement with the ACLU on Friday, recognizing that a 2015 law that permitted state-contracted child welfare agencies to refuse to provide foster care or adoption services that conflicted with their religious beliefs violates federal anti-discrimination laws.

    “Discrimination in the provision of foster care case management and adoption services is illegal, no matter the rationale,” Nessel said in a statement. “Limiting the opportunity for a child to be adopted or fostered by a loving home not only goes against the state’s goal of finding a home for every child, it is a direct violation of the contract every child placing agency enters into with the state.”

    1. preacher richard h. says:

      Discrimination lol
      Why do they discriminate against a single straight Man wanting to adopt a girl child/daughter

      Should he be able to do this? its not his fault he is single in todays day n age.
      perhaps he has below average looks
      should he be able to adopt a child.?

      1. bakoa says:

        See what Woody Allan did? He wasn’t even single. He adopted a kid and started abusing her Asap. Should households with men adopt children?

    2. claude says:

      After reading all the comments I came back to yours as it seemed to be the only one which addressed to main issue, discrimination. Most comments are simply opinions about being gay, and have gone on and on, and around in circles. It truly is amazing that a country with such a huge cross section of ethnicity and religions in its’ population can’t come to terms with, or understanding of what a democratic society is. Unfortunately the US version of democracy under the current regime, is undermining not only civil rights but also humans rights. The values / views of VP Pence are is a good example of the hypocrisy which runs through the veins of the right wing zealots in office. (see other article in this posting about Mayor Pete) Democratic laws are meant to end discrimination, not enforce it.

  3. Ken says:

    God had a hand in creating all people on this earth…. all people.
    Does god make mistakes… or could it be he doesn’t know what he’s doing?
    When i look around at what he has created i see only perfection… hey folks why not just trust in your god and be the good Christian you think you are.
    God does the judging not us.

    1. Ralph J Miller says:

      God gave everyone the power of choice.

      1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

        Ah the old myth of free will something all modern experts in psychology recognize as just that a myth. from the moment we are born, and every second we are raised, socialized and absorb that which is around us directly contradicts the idea of free will.

        While we certainly are able to make choice logical or emotional in basis. All that we use to make those choices has been affected by all that came before. Even when people for example that are raised as bigots have an epiphany and shed that bigotry it nearly always comes in tandem with an event that causes that view.

        For example one soldier who Ive given spiritual council to to help with PTSD was raised in a neo nazi family, and he joined the army with a true loathing for all non whites. Then one day his life was saved by a black man who he had treated like shit the entire time they had been serving together. That black man died saving him. after that the man shed his neo nazi views, in doing so lost his family, that turned their backs on him.

        But his change of world view was not an act of free will it was a mixture of trauma and survivors guilt making him turn that hate once directed towards other people due to skin color, towards himself and all he had been raised to be.

        Now he struggles constantly with depression, suicidal thoughts,isolation as his own children do not want to ever see him again so he gave his ex wife sole custody. So now he is no longer a man blinded by bigotry but it cost him so very much. Is he better off ? That none can ever truly say.

        1. Laurie Cleveland says:

          T’Keren. There is both Karmic and Free Will. However, Free Will cannot be a choice of true attraction to the same sex. Despite everything that has been done to these people over the centuries, they simply are a normal variationi of sexual manifestation. Now we get into the BS sticky wicket part of things. Many children and adolescents experiment. It’s a given. It doesn’t mean that they are gay or not gay. I believe that it is just a part of growing up. Should this be taught to preschoolers? No. Grade school? No. When kids approach high school, then yes, because they need the knowledge to understand that feelings are not “bad” because some church says that it is. There is a lot of documentation regarding Yeshua or Jesus and The Essenes and that he accepted them with love. If He can, than who are we to deny what is obviously just what is. As for transvestites, transexuals and the lot, well, the jury is out. There are true transexuals who are born with both sex organs and the doctors and parents have to figure out which way the child is to be. Sometimes they make the right call; other times, they don’t. A lot of it depends upon what is present and developed vs. not and lab tests of hormonal levels. I believe that we have gone way too far in politicizing something that should be a matter of privacy. The pendulum has swung so far in one direction and now in another. I’m in the middle. The “no gays served here” is the same baloney that was done to the blacks and every new group that came into this country, yet we pride ourselves on our freedoms. If it is OK to sell a gay couple various cakes, then the precedent has been set so a wedding cake should not be a big deal. If I remember correctly, that baker even refused to do Halloween cakes. I get it. I see both sides of the coin here, but we need to come to a rational way of looking at it. I have a niece who is gay. She is getting married this year to her long-time girlfriend. I have another 4-H’er who has found her soulmate and best friend and they are both gay and I couldn’t be happier for them. Gone are the days when people lived with “friends” and then when the long-time “friend” was in the hospital or dying, the family flatly refused to allow their lover to visit. How cruel is that? Furthermore, legally until recently, if you weren’t married or joined in a legally-binding civil union, your other half would be denied health care benefits, etc. There is a lot more to this than meets the eye. Should a man or a woman be forced to marry somebody of the opposite sex just to please convention and be miserable? I don’t agree with this or do I agree with arranged marriages. People should be free to choose the person that they love. It is our job as clergy to help both the couple and the families come to an equitable understanding and remember what Paul Stokey said in his “Wedding Song,” “That whenever 2 or more of you are gathered in His name, there is Love.” People who are prejudiced because they don’t understand something tend to be both ignorant and, it seems, hateful. There is too much of the latter in this world. We need to exhibit love and tolerance. This is not, nor it ever has been a “one size fits all” when it comes to religious beliefs.

        2. John Owens says:

          Sad story, but each of us must walk our own golden pathway. Sometimes that means walking alone, in order to move in the right direction.

          There is an old Spanish saying–“Mejor solo que malacompañado.” Better to be alone than in bad company, (or poorly accompanied).

          He needs a friend or two, and a loving pet. I hope you do well with him.

      2. Joe says:

        How do babies up for adoption choose ?

        1. MICHAEL SPINELLI says:

          Usually a thunbs up

      3. Lionheart says:

        The first born babies that your god killed, and those he drowned in the flood didn’t have a choice either.

        Isn’t it weird what type of mythical god some people like to look up to and follow?

        1. Carrie says:

          I am glad I don’t follow this god. He is a psychotic, sadistic, narcissitic, pervert! Oh wait, I must be talking about the god trump…. To say that gays are anything less than human, or that they are incapable of loving and providing for children is what a true asshole would say. It would seem to me that only certain “christians” and republicans have the market cornered on perversion. They are constantly being arrested for child pornography, child trafficking..aka Epstein, Acosta, Trump…evangelicals caught in sex acts with children and young men….The gays are good and decent people, unlike alot of others.

        2. Rev. Brien says:

          Thank you for trying to open eyes, but I fear that the religious zealot will refuse to see.

        3. preacher richard h. says:

          GOD didn’t KILL the First born male children, The Pharos Chose to do that.
          Moses Parted the Red sea to escape Slavery and Free his people,

          The Lord saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become and GOD was filled with Pain
          The People were given a chance to repent (like you) an refused . GOD Judged ALL the truly righteous were SPARED the evil were Destroyed.
          GOD gave us choice but he created humans to Worship him
          Good Luck

          1. Lionheart says:


            Exodus 11:4-6 New International Version (NIV)

            “So Moses said, “This is what the Lord says: ‘About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again.”

            It seems like your god decided to take his anger out in the first born cattle as well then. Kinda weird don’t you think? I bet you can find a good sick explanation though…right?

            When you say “All the truly righteous were spared” I guess the drunkard Noah was classed as righteous then by your god, and all the little children in the world were not righteous.

            What sort of sick mythical deity is he Richard?There’s no way I would ever worship that sick SOB who can’t control his temper.

            Anyway, you carry on worshipping it if it makes you somehow feel good.

            Good luck!

          2. John Owens says:

            Pharoah was warned. Nobody cares about the cattle

          3. Lionheart says:

            Ohhhh, that’s okay then! Thanks John for clearing that one up. I was mistakenly thinking God chose to kill some of their food source for a reason. What on earth was God thinking if no one cared about the cattle. I wonder why he did that then? His thought structure is magnificent isn’t it?

            As for the little children that suffered, along with the parental trauma the parents went through, because of Pharaoh getting the almighty omnipotent god angry, I’m amazed he couldn’t think of something a little less traumatic and gory, like making him blind, or deaf for a while. But there I go being practical. I bet Gods now wondering “Why didn’t I think of that?” I bet I’m in Gods black book now.


          4. John Owens says:

            All of those who died will be resurrected in the second resurrection, Lionheart. Then they will have a chance to live forever in a world without suffering. Remember, Pharoah was a totalitarian tyrant who thought himself a god. How would YOU have taught him differently?

          5. Lionheart says:

            But that’s only if you believe it John. What if you’re wrong? Children still died, people still suffered.

            I already suggested what I’d do differently. I certainly wouldn’t have taken it out on little children, or cattle.

            Turning Pharaoh into a pillar of salt would have been another option to save the lives of all those children. God could have done that. He did that to Lots wife, and all she did was not do as she was told.

            I believe my suggested options are better than Gods. Does that make me better than God? Ohhhhh I hope so. I think my morals would be better than his. I wouldn’t drown people either because I was angry at my creation. I’d own up to it and say I messed up. But I would have known mankind was going to be a major issue anyway if I was omnipotent…right?


          6. John Owens says:

            Whether I am correct or not, you say it as though you believe it actually happened. If that is the case, you should really be a little more concerned with your own karma. I say this as a friend.

          7. Lionheart says:

            Thank you John. I say it because I don’t in fact believe it, but many on this blog do.

            I also don’t believe in Karma. If I did I would have been struck down long before now. As a septuagenarian, I’m glad I’ve made it this far. Many Christians haven’t! 😇


          8. Tom B says:

            Lionheart (apr 11 5:24)…Respectfully…karma is not vengeance or vindictiveness; it is balance…and it carries from lifetime to lifetime, until we arefree and enlightened, at which point we do not return to this life…fyi, i am 77, and i am also glad i have made it this far…thank you for your various thoughtful comments on various subjects…Peace…Tom

          9. Lionheart says:

            You are very welcome Tom. It’s always fun to respectfully share thoughts and ideas, and sometimes with a little tongue-in-cheek humor. ✌🏻 ☮️


      4. Don says:

        God gave EVERYONE the power of choice?
        Have you ever read the Bible?
        Jephthah’s daughter was burned alive as a payment to God for winning a battle.
        Are you really going to claim she CHOSE to burn to death?

        1. MICHAEL SPINELLI says:

          She knew the rules

          1. Don says:

            She was EIGHT YEARS OLD.
            If you treated YOUR daughter this way, you would be sitting on Death Row.
            Have you always been this wicked and immoral?

          2. Lionheart says:

            They only want to read the nice bits Don, if they’ve read it at all, to try and prove their mythical God is a nice guy.

        2. Laurie G. Cleveland says:

          According to The Bible, the first person out of the house would be killed should Jephtha win the battle. He didn’t know that it would be his beloved daughter. She was the one who told the heartbroken dad to “do to her what he promised to do.” When he tried to cover her face, she took off the covering and held her eyes up to the Light so that she would die iin The Light. She could have said that a slave girl could go in her place, but she was more concerned that the father keep his promise to God. Sometimes, the price of making a promise to God is a very large one. I know that my promise to God that should He see fit to make me a nurse that I would work for Him and that I have done to the best of my ability. I believe that we should live our beliefs, whatever they are. Words are cheap and actions speak louder than words. Would you deny a child a home, a good home, just because you didn’t agree with where that child would end up with? That is very cruel and almost abusive. Who cares so long as the children are well taken care of. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what is right before your nose.

          1. John Owens says:

            He did not say the first person out of the house would be killed.

          2. Don says:

            “He didn’t know that it would be his beloved daughter.”

            But the all-knowing God did, right? And this God could have stopped it from happening at any time, but instead chose to watch as the child was burned to death.
            Nice God you have there. Makes Hitler look like a nice guy.

          3. John Owens says:

            People who believe in late-term abortion hardly have any room to talk.

          4. Don says:

            And people who molest children also have no room to talk.
            But that’s as irrelevant as the previous statement…er, evasion.

          5. John Owens says:

            You make a habit of slinging terrible accusations at people with no grounds for doing so. That shows that you have no scruples and no interest whatsoever in fact or truth. Why would you disrespect yourself so much? How do you live with yourself, having no honor?

          6. John Owens says:

            Moderators, WHY don’t you post at least ONE of my replies to this? I know at least one of them has to be acceptable in thy sight.

        3. John Owens says:

          You keep saying the Bible says things it does not say. The scripture does not say Jephthah’s daughter was burned to death or even killed in sacrifice. That is an erroneous inference at which people arrive based on a lack of knowledge.. A person could offer their child to the service of the Tabernacle or Temple. There was zero provision in the Torah. for actual blood or holocaust offering of human beings.

          The Bible also does not say that Nephilim were the hybrid offspring of fallen angels and humans,

          that the Earth is 6,000 years old,

          that people go to heaven when they die,

          or that they become angels,

          that sinners burn forever and ever,

          that any human has an immortal soul,

          that Jesus was buried on Friday afternoon and resurrected on Sunday morning,

          that ” it is better to plant thy seed in the belly of a whore than to spill it on the ground,”

          that Jesus abolished the Law,

          that Jesus was born on or near Christmas,

          that we should observe Easter.

          There are many other widely-held misconceptions about what the Bible says, that it does not actually say.

          1. Don says:

            Bwahahaa!!! I’ve never made ANY of those claims about Scripture. There are believers that DO make some of those claims, but as you know, I am not one of them.

          2. Don says:

            “The scripture does not say Jephthah’s daughter was burned to death or even killed in sacrifice.”

            Except that it does.

            Judges 11:35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back.
            11:39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who DID WITH HER ACCORDING TO HIS VOW which he had vowed: and she knew no man.

            And his VOW was: Judges 11:31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.

            Enough with the lies.

          3. John Owens says:

            So, where is the verse that actually says, “Jephthah actually burned his daughter.” I’ll wait.

          4. Don says:

            No need to wait as I’ve already posted it. Try paying attention.

            Judges 11:31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’s, and I WILL OFFER IT UP FOR A BURNT OFFERING.
            11:39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who DID WITH HER ACCORDING TO HIS VOW

            Do you need help with the big words?

          5. John Owens says:


            “You are right that the story is at first glance shocking. The Torah clearly detests human sacrifice – or murder in virtually any form. Idolatrous practices which involve child sacrifice are especially abominable to God (see e.g. Leviticus 20:1-5 and Jeremiah 19:5). Likewise, one of the most difficult aspects of the binding of Isaac was that Abraham was forced to (almost) act in a way completely antithetical to the ethics and morality he had until then been preaching to the world.

            In truth, the commentators to the Book of Judges unanimously explain that Jephthah (or Yiftach) did not literally sacrifice his daughter (Rashi, Radak, Ralbag, Metzudat David, Malbim). In fact, if one promises to transgress any law of the Torah, his promise is not binding (Rashi to Numbers 30:2 quoting Sifri). “

          6. John Owens says:

            Same page:

            “Rather, as the commentators explain, the promise was fulfilled in a different manner. Jephthah promised to offer up whatever emerged from his house to God. For an animal it would have meant sacrifice. For his daughter it meant devoting her life utterly to God. Jephthah’s daughter was thus not allowed to marry, raise a family, and interact normally with others. She had to live a life of isolation, fully devoted to Divine service. This is why the Torah concludes that as a result of his promise she never “knew a man.” The Torah does not state that she was put to death, but that she remained a virgin.

            Even so, God was very critical of Jephthah. If a person makes an oath and afterwards finds it is impractical to fulfill due to unforeseen circumstances and the like, he can typically go to a great rabbi or a court and have it annulled. Jephthah’s promise was clearly one he regretted for good reason. Yet he and his daughter went ahead with it anyway.

            God through the prophet Jeremiah later railed against Jephthah for not remedying the situation but allowing his daughter to remain single. “Is there no balm in Gilead, is there no doctor there? For why was not the healing of the daughter of My nation forthcoming?” (8:22). Gilead was Jephthah’s region. As the Sages interpret, he was punished for not seeking out “balm” for his oath and bringing about his daughter’s healing. Likewise Phinehas, then the High Priest, was punished for not coming himself to absolve Jephthah of his oath (see Talmud Ta’anit 4a, Bereishit Rabbah 60:3). “

          7. John Owens says:

            Do YOU need help with the big words? Again, you say it literally says something it does NOT literally say. You might LEARN something if you didn’t think you already know everything.

      5. bakoa says:

        And look what you have dine with your power of choice thats do much bettrr than the gays

    2. Lionheart says:

      “When I look around at what he created I see only perfection”

      I’m guessing you wear glasses…right Ken. 👓

      Anyway, people will always discriminate, it’s just the way we are. Even mythical gods discriminated, and if you believe in the jealous Christian god, everyone was made in his image, so surprise surprise.

      I’m glad that as a secular humanist, my morals of discrimination are better than the gods.

      1. preacher richard h. says:

        Made in his image
        Given Free Will to Worship Him or not to but he made us to worship him.
        those who don’t well Lets just say I’M Not the one going to HELL

        Discriminate against sin and Un natural acts Id say so because if you flock with sinners you will commit more sin

        1. Don says:

          “I’M Not the one going to HELL”

          Kindly take your cowardly threats of damnation and shove them where the sun doesn’t shine. They have no place on this page.

          1. Gary Minnis says:

            Don your double standard is showing. Just saying.

      2. Laurie G. Cleveland, RN says:

        You know Lionhaert, I am really fed up with you putting everything on God. You are clearly one of these people who just loves calling the kettle black and creating dissention whenever something doesn’t feel comfortable in your wheelhouse so to speak. All you have to do is take off the proverbal blinders and actually see the beauty and wonder around you and know that someone or something had had a hand in it and it wasn’t the Rockerfellers! The Bible is part history and part alagorical. I’m not going to say that the flood was God’s way of getting retribution on a world that has gone bad (sound familiar here?). Many times, natural disasters are blamed on something other than what may have caused it. The floods of Noah probably happened with a major polar shift, but that is giving it a scientific bent, which again, may or may not be true. The fact of the matter is that things going back that far in time weren’t written down. They were passed mouth to mouth. Things changed. It doesn’t mean that the core of it wasn’t true, but even the Bible has been re-written so many times, much of what is true has been taken out because it was “politically incorrect,” which, once again, we are seeing. Man’s inhumanity towards man has a long and sordid history. None of us can deny that. I can, however, say that no one religion is to blame or is the savior. It seems that whenever you have people that are on either ends of the spectrum, there is trouble and it’s fact that the “born agains” as part of their platform go out and get up on their soapbox and decry anybody else’s beliefs. Same with the Shi-ites. Same with every religion where there are extremitists. Don’t believe the way they do? You’re put to death. Need a job? Well, if you don’t believe the way the people who own the business believe, then you lose your job. I know that one all too well because I’m Wiccan and it has taken me a lot of soul searching and redoing BSN courses that UOP took away from me (and charged me $41K) that one of the jobs I was at, I was a victim of religious discrimination. Hell, I was a victim of it being a Prostant in a predominently Catholic state growing up. I know all about it! You need to stop. Just stop. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but you do not have to be so abrasive comes to mind here about your own beliefs. You clearly have issues with the IAM. I get it, but don’t put somebody else down for theirs.

        1. Lionheart says:

          Thank you Laurie for your comments. My intention is not to put everyone down, it’s with the intent to open their minds, heart, and eyes, because I too get tired of reading ridiculous unproven religious rhetoric that often causes anxiety, and fear, to the point that some have taken their own life because of the “shame of sin”. I know of more than one teenage Christian boy who has shot his brains out because of his religious guilt. To me, this is appalling, and someone needs to stand up for those lost lives through religion. One boy I know actually did that in front of his girlfriend on the doorstep of her home. Can you imagine the trauma that family went through seeing that happen all over their front door and doorstep all because of religion.

          I know where you are coming from. I too have been involved in Wicca as I moved away from religion. I’ve been involved with sabbats and esbats, skyclad, as the years rolled around. You will understand that Laurie.

          I do indeed see the beauty and wonder around me, but I don’t attribute that to any god, because I also see, with no blinders on, the horror, gore, and destruction that nature can also bring, as well as it’s incredible beauty.

          Please ignore my crusade in my stating truth of how it truly is if anything I say displeases you. I do at times try to make my tongue-in-cheek remarks humorous as best I can.

          Blessed be!


    3. Preacher richard h. says:

      The bible says to judge your neighbors with Righteous JUDGEMENT so Christians know who the Immoral Sinners are.
      So enough of this we aren’t suppose to judge that’s just a Cop out Flagrant sinners use to justify devious behavior.

      1. flugo says:


      2. Don says:

        The Bible also says eating shellfish is an abomination.
        How many Red Lobsters have you protested at?

        1. Gerardo Defendini says:

          Maybe you need to read a little more of the Bible before quoting it.
          Shellfish was unclean in the old testament. Along with snakes, pigs, etc.The old testament came into effect when Moses, in Horeb, sprinkled the blood of a sacrificed animal on the people and said “this is the blood of the testament that God has made with us” Exodous 24:8
          A testament comes in effect when someone dies.
          Jesus said “For this is my blood of the NEW testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. So there is a new testament that replaces the old one.

          Now, on Chapter 10 of the book of Acts, Peter was very hungry and has a dream. And in this dream he saw a large sheet come from heaven. On this sheet were all kinds of animals. “Clean and unclean”. God then said to him “Peter, get up, kill and eat” Peter answered “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”and then God answered “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” Shellfish and other animals that the Old testament called “unclean” are now clean. Your argument, my friend, is not valid.

          1. Don says:

            You skipped over Matthew 5:18, where Jesus says that ALL of the Old Laws are to remain UNCHANGED until his return.

            Unless you now claiming Jesus has returned?

          2. flugo says:


          3. preacher richard h. says:

            First of all, there is a confusion of time. During His lifetime, Jesus always kept the Law of Moses Himself, including offering sacrifices to the Jewish priests (Matt. 8:4), attending Jewish festivals (John 7:10), and eating the passover lamb (Matt. 26:19). He did on occasion violate the pharisaical (and false) traditions that had grown up around the Law (cf. Matt. 5:43–44), chiding them, “You have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition” (Matt. 15:6). The verses that indicate the law has been fulfilled refer to after the Cross when there is “neither Jew nor Greek … for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal. 3:28).

            These ceremonial and typological aspects of the OT Law of Moses were clearly done away with when Jesus, our Passover lamb (1 Cor. 5:7), fulfilled the Law’s types and predictions about His first coming (cf. Heb. 7–10). In this sense, Jesus clearly did away with the ceremonial and typological aspects of the Law, not by destroying the Law, but by fulfilling it.

            When the moral principle expressed in this OT commandment is stated in the NT, it is expressed in a different context, namely, one that is not national or theocratic, but is personal and universal. For all persons who honor their parents, Paul declares that they will “live long on the earth” (Eph. 6:3). Likewise, Christians are no longer under the commandment of Moses to worship on Saturday (Ex. 20:8–11), for, since the Resurrection, appearances, and Ascension (all of which occurred on Sunday), Christians worship on Sunday instead

          4. preacher richard h. says:

            Amen to your knowledge
            Gerardo Defendini

          5. Gerardo Defendini says:

            Don: I did not. Read the whole chapter you quote and learn ths.
            A text without a context is a pretext.
            On the same chapter on the same book you quote you conveniently leave out the context.
            Jesus changed the commandments on that same chapter. The old law is changed by his own authority.
            He says “You have heard” and then says “I tell you that” at least 8 times changing at least the same amount of laws. We have new commandments and not one of them deals with “unclean food”.
            By the way, you offer no explanation for Peter’s vision in Acts, do you? that’s because there is none. Just like there’s no “unclean” food.
            Do me and the community a favor and learn this.

            “Before you speak, make sure you can improve the silence” J.L.Borges

          6. John Owens says:

            Don is right on this one. Jesus didn’t do away with anything except the need to sacrifice animals, and the Aaronic priesthood.

          7. Don says:

            Do yourself a favor and stop trying to re-translate Scripture to fit your narrow minded views. Thanks so much.

          8. John Owens says:

            Gerardo, Jesus did not change God’s laws. He cited how the teachers of His day were teaching them, but then He told the way it was originally written to be. He did not change God’s law. He was telling them the Pharisees AND Sagicees were twisting the laws, much like the mullahs and priests of today do.

      3. MICHAEL SPINELLI says:

        Thats a cop out

      4. Laurie G. Cleveland, RN says:

        I find that the most judgemental people have the most skeletons in their closet. How many times have we seen televangelists get caught doing all sorts of things. “Judge not, lest you be judged.”


      God only created Adam and Eve .The rest is on us. He did not make any others. So got to expect some failures. Just like the mechanical products we make .Face it its not Gods doing.

      1. Don says:

        “God only created Adam and Eve”
        And Lillith, Adam’s first wife – or haven’t you actually ever read the Bible?
        Not to mention all the people from the land of Nod – where do you think Cain and Abel’s wives came from?
        You should probably open a Bible and READ IT before making any more false claims about it.

        1. Gerardo Defendini says:

          OK this is getting ridiculous.
          Lilith is NOT in the Bible as Adam’s “first wife”. period.
          She makes a solitary appearance in the Bible, as a wilderness demon shunned by the prophet Isaiah. Is. Chapter 34.
          In the Middle Ages she reappears in “Jewish sources” as the dreadful first wife of Adam. but this is not documented or accepted by Bible scholars.
          Please be careful when quoting this book or you may end up looking like, well, youjust did.

          1. Don says:

            Riiiight – So, are the unicorns, satyrs, and cockatrices in Scripture accepted by “Bible scholars”?

            Based on your comment, you seem to have the capability to understand that the Bible is a work of fiction.
            Why do you deny this?

          2. Laurie Cleveland says:

            Geraaardo, I decided to do some checking and technically, you are correct. I decided to check Wikipedia and Lilith, not always the most “religious” of sites, but you get some good information on it and it seems that because of whatever she did or didn’t do, she was demonized, just like Mary Magdalene, Yeshua’s wife, was, for so long. It seems that the farther from an event that something happens, the more myth takes place and the less true comes forward. Then I went to a pagan site (yes, I hear all of you dyed in the wool “Christians” groaning, but folks different strokes for different folks. The person who wrote it is an astrologer and looks as Lilith as that which is hidden, an interesting viewpoint. Let’s face it, anybody who dresses provocatively is thought of in varying terms, none of them nice, and while it may be acceptable if you are single, most men simply do not like their women to “strut their stuff.” If you look at it from this perspective, it is, once again, what is good for the GANDER is not good for the GOOSE. I stick firmly by this based on how many “free” women were put to death, etc. over the centuries and are still being persecuted.

          3. John Owens says:

            Bible scholars know those are flukes of translation.

            Cockatrice should just say adder , see Strong’s tsephaʻ, tseh’-fah; from an unused root meaning to extrude; a viper (as thrusting out the tongue, i.e. hissing):—adder, viper.
            Unicorn should have been a now extinct wild bull (reh-ame’; or רְאֵים rᵉʼêymlemma רְאיֵם second vowel, corrected to רְאֵים; or רֵים rêym; or רֵם rêm; from H7213; a wild bull (from its conspicuousness):
            and satyr–Strong’s Hebrew dictionary 8163– should have been a shaggy he-goat.

          4. Don says:

            Bwahahaa! God’s Perfect Word has “flukes”

          5. John Owens says:

            The translators have flukes, Don. You probably don’t know any other language, but oftentimes, things either cannot be translated directly, or they might be translated in more than one way. In the case of the KJV, the translators were also trying to please the king and the church of England. Modern translations have returned to the Greek and the Hebrew and the flaws of the KJV are well known by those who study it.

            For instance, Jesus’ name was not Jesus. It should be translated Joshua. We know this. We understand it. I say Jesus so people will know of whom I speak, even though it is a horrible transliteration of the Greek name for Joshua, or Yeshua.


    This needs to pass. Raising a child in a home that is not of the male female gender will alter the childs mind as they grow in that family almost certainly creating an unhealthy sexual appetite.

    1. flugo says:


  5. flugo says:

    ‘Stable family’? I think NOT! No way is a gay couple providing a stable family atmosphere.

    NO way should a foster kid be subjected to such a perverted, subnormal home atmosphere!

    God doesn’t hate the gay people, but He DOES hate their homosexual activities!

    1. Don says:

      Your god is a joke, just like you.
      Kindly take your hateful trash somewhere else, thank you.

      1. Gary Minnis says:

        Hey Don, kindly take your hateful trash somewhere else. Thank you. I bet you were the class bully weren’t you?

  6. Miranda Allison Young says:

    If the Tennessee Legislature actually passes this legislation and it gets signed by the Governor, then they are going against what Jesus preached. How dare they call themselves Christians? They certainly do not follow the concepts laid down by Jesus. He would have done anything possible to find homes for those children instead of punishing them. It is not the prospective adopting parents who are the worst hurt, it is the children. The legislature is telling all the children in that state that they do not matter, that they do not deserve to be loved. This is just plain wrong.

  7. Ken says:

    Ill let god do the judging….
    My ego isn’t big enough or hypocritical enough to tell anyone that their not as deserving as i

    1. Don says:

      Which god? Because if Shiva judges us, we’re all doomed!

  8. Carrie says:

    Considering that there are more children in need of adoption than there are couples who seek to adopt, this is both negligent, and short sighted. Gay couple are, in many cases, better parents than straight couples. They seek to adopt out of love for a child and should be allowed if they are able and willing to raise children with love and support. Since marriage is recognized in all 50 states, they should be treated like any married couple! It has nothing to do with religion and has everything to do with the common good of the children.


      Totally disagree. A gay atmosphere is not a moral conducive atmosphere to raise a child.

      1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM says:

        How do you know that? What is a “gay atmosphere”? Is that one of love, care, compassion, understanding child development and making sure the child receive the utmost of basic needs in addition to building self confidence? Am truly curious how you come to this conclusion. Not bashing you for you belief, just curious.

      2. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM says:

        So what is a “gay atmosphere”? How does one know if it is or is not a “conducive atmosphere to raise a child”? Have you ever spent time with a gay couple in their home? I doubt. I agree with Carrie 100%.

        1. MICHAEL SPINELLI says:

          Doesn a wife or husband show their love .So do GAYS. Have been in many homes as a ac tech and have seen it all.

      3. Lionheart says:

        Considering your god doesn’t know what a moral conducive atmosphere is from the amount of people he has killed, especially children, where do you get your morals from Michael?

        1. MICHAEL SPINELLI says:

          From Jesus Christ the true savior.

          1. Don says:

            Wow. So you’re okay with beating slaves (Luke 12:47-48) and murdering nonbelievers (Luke 19:27)? Because those things are not only illegal, they’re evil and immoral.

          2. Lionheart says:

            Michael reads his bible through rose colored glasses Don. He only sees what he wants to see.

            He’s more than likely reading from the King James Bible, which few haven’t realized, or don’t want to know 🤫, that King James was gay. And that’s ok with me, I’m sure he was a very nice man. He had a very limp handshake, but that’s ok, some do 😇

          3. preacher richard h. says:

            DON references LUKE as a GOD that is okay with whipping slaves or murdering an he is very confused MY Guess is he or many don’t understand Jesus spoke in parables to get his point across. Used the slave one to point out the difference between a man who much has been give (The HOLY SPIRIT ) and one who doesn’t have it or even knows the word of GOD. Its about How we will be Judged.

            Luke 12:47-48 47″The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

            But these mine enemies, that would not that I should reign over them bring hither, and slay them before me. See Luke 19:14. A reference in the first instance to the Jews who were citizens of Christ’s kingdom and who were justly destroyed for rejecting him when he ascended his throne. A reference in the second instance to all the inhabitants of the globe who are all in his kingdom and who shall be destroyed at his coming if they had rejected him. It is a fearful thing to contemplate the destruction of sinners, but it is more fearful to think of sin, rebellion, and uncleanness being tolerated forever.

            “These mine enemies.” This portrays the fate, not of church members, but of those who would not have the Lord reign over them. It embraces all the impenitent

          4. Don says:

            It’s both sad and pathetic the mental gymnastics some Christians will do to excuse the atrocities and immorality in the Bible.

      4. flugo says:


      5. Don says:

        Do you have any evidence to support your claim, or are you just making your ignorant bigotry public?

        1. MICHAEL SPINELLI says:

          As a ac tech and appliance tech i have been in many castles and have seen it all

          1. Don says:

            What?! Being a Peeping Tom is not only criminal, but if convicted…
            Are you a registered sex offender??

    2. flugo says:

      ‘caries’: It matters NOT what marriage is ‘in all 50 states’.

      What DOES matter is what GOD considers marriage. And that’s one woman and a man.

      Anything else is perversion, subnormal, and contrary to our Creator’s design.

      1. Lionheart says:

        Ummm! King David had 8 wives, Moses had 2, Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (way to go Solomon). There were of course many others. Then the Jesus guy comes along and I think he moved the goal posts.

        Slightly prior to his birth, Mary had two husband type people, Joseph and god. Though I think god was a one night stand. I assume Joseph was okay with that. I mean, how can you complain when a god does naughty things to your wife, puts his fingers to his lips, and tells you it’s okay. That’s a very difficult situation, but Joseph and Mary got away with it, and everyone seemed to buy it, so that’s good. I’m not sure people would buy that story today, and I bet many have tried.

        Don’t you just love religion? Personally, I’ll stick to reading Harry Potter. Better story, nowhere near as much death and gore, and no gods messing around with women, so that makes it better for children to read in my eyes.


      2. Don says:

        You are a perversion. And your god is an imaginary boogeyman. Grow up.

    3. Gail D says:

      Totally agree Carrie. Aside from the illegality of shoving religion into law (again), the best interests of the children is what matters. As one of the opponents said: “Why are we wanting to do anything to prohibit a loving couple or a family of any denomination, any religion, any moral conviction from being able to care for a child and take it in and provide for it? We have got to stop discriminating against people. We have gone far enough.”

  9. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM says:

    This is just another attempt of misguided hypocrites forcing their religious ideology on everyone else. Quite frankly, it is a clear demonstration of how little these people have spiritually evolved. Pathetic that this is even a conversation in 2019. I left formalized religion a long time ago due to the hypocrisy, discrimination, and promotion of fear of others who are different and their belief that only THEY had the answers and only They had the direct line to their god. These are the same people who might “sin” all week and then believe they are forgiven by their angry, jealous and vengeful creator on Sundays. I also find it most interesting that people like this are so concerned about what others do rather than them spending time in contemplation to sort out how they can be more loving, more giving and more compassionate in congruence with their lord and savior. Jesus Christ’s teachings. “We are all Children of the Universe.”


      Its not religion. Its biology. Get real and up to date. Just cause they show movies and tv shows flaunting the sick life style does not make it right. Its a sickness with no known cure…….

      1. Don says:

        Your ignorance and vile immorality are a sickness.
        Luckily for you, there are several cures available, but they all require learning how much of an ignorant bigot you really are, so it may take some effort.
        But you can do it, I have faith in you!

        1. MICHAEL SPINELLI says:

          And the Angels sang…….

          1. Don says:

            And the child molesting vermin all died…
            Oh, sorry! That wasn’t meant as a personal attack.
            But if the shoe fits…

      2. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM says:

        To you it is a sickness, to the rest of us, it is the diversity of life made by our Creator. You get real and up to date sweetheart. It is not ok to discriminate against a part of the population of the world. Movies and TV??? “Our mandate: “We are children of the Universe”. “Lifestyle”??? Hardly a lifestyle. No one would chose to live in the path of constant harassment, hatred and discrimination. What religion? Certainly not what Jesus Christ taught.

        1. MICHAEL SPINELLI says:

          Really, show me the scripture involving gays…

          1. Don says:

            Mark 14:51 And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him:
            52: And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.

            Mark 15:3 And the chief priests accused him of many things: but he answered nothing.

        2. preacher richard h. says:

          What you call Discrimination an bigotry, and “GETTING Up to DATE”
          This just a Sinners way of Denying The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.
          This way Everyday is a party n Every meal a Feast with no Consequences (SO Ya’ll Think)
          What you people call Harassment , Is your in ear shot of a Christian doing his duty as commanded by Jesus, to spread his word to the world an each person on it n Hopefully bring another soul to Christ
          Yes its a Choice or a mental disorder to Mutilate ones body into something it is not or to Lay with the same sex It is a choice, or compulsion to do it,
          Its likened to what an Alcoholic goes threw every day but stop n the compulsion will fade

          Just say I wont be Gay Just for Today
          Do that everyday an you will be in Remission ,

          1. Lionheart says:

            “Yes it’s a Choice or a mental disorder to Mutilate one’s body into something it’s not”

            That’s why I disagree with your gods decision to circumcise. It was a mental decision by him. It was just not necessary.

            As for your daily mantra, I do say daily “I won’t be religious, I won’t be religious “ and i can attest it does work, but I’m thinking it won’t work for biological issues such as heterosexuality, or homosexuality.


          2. preacher richard h. says:

            Actually religion means a guide that helps you in the ups and downs of your life. It is but a Divine Guidance. Faith is a firm belief in the religion and it’s teachings.
            you say biological issues
            Others claim it is a Mental disorder to do unnatural acts. Homosexuality is a result of a weak mind an usually a life style of a selfish minded person

            Well Christ was circumcised, n we are to be more Christ like.
            plus Dr’s say its healthier

          3. Lionheart says:

            Just Googled the data Richard, and apparently there is an average death rate of 119 boys each year from circumcision. Why am I thinking it wasn’t healthy for those boys?

            If it wasn’t healthy, one would have thought a real god worth his salt would have taken care of that during creation.

            For some reason it seems it’s ok for other primates to keep their foreskin intact. Unless somewhere in lost scriptures there’s a paragraph saying all primates should be circumcised because it’s unhealthy for them to keep it, but somehow I doubt it, don’t you?


          4. Don says:

            Doctors do NOT say it is healthier.
            Wasn’t Jesus against lying? SO STOP LYING.
            But thank you for admitting your god has a mental disorder.

          5. Joni says:

            Philippians 4:8 ESV /

            Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

            Luke 6:37 ESV

            “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

            Psalm 50:19-21 ESV

            “You give your mouth free rein for evil, and your tongue frames deceit. You sit and speak against your brother; you slander your own mother’s son. These things you have done, and I have been silent; you thought that I was one like yourself. But now I rebuke you and lay the charge before you.

          6. John Owens says:


            Thank you for quoting that.

  10. Don says:

    “faith-based organizations should not be forced to work with families that don’t meet their moral standards.”

    Silly homophobes. Sexual orientation is NOT A MORAL STANDARD.
    Abusing children IS. How about you work on THAT one first? That way you won’t all look like a bunch of ignorant hypocrites.

    1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM says:

      Yes! Don.

    2. Phataoh says:

      Don, I could not agree with you more. Here we have religious people hating Gays and Lesbians who are consenting, but they swear by Moses who boats to have taken 35,000 virgins. One requirement ot being a virgin is to be a child. So in essence these religious folks rather follow a child molester, and rapist killer of babies than allow a gay person to adopt a child. Numbers 31

      1. flugo says:

        ‘phat toe’: Hey! How ’bout coming up with the Scriptural reference of Moses and the 35,000 virgins. I’m waiting!

    3. flugo says:

      ‘dun’: You’re right! The sexual orientation of the LGBTQxyz-ers is not a moral standard . . . it’a an IMMORAL standard!

  11. Laurie Cleveland says:

    Ffirst of all, there is a thing called separation of church and state. This is one of the founding principles of the United States. Secondly, Yeshua didn’t discriminate against those who were gay. The idea that a gay couple would raise their children to be gay is ridiculous. There are many studies that have been conducted to prove this fact. So many children need families to be apart of. This is a classic example of discrimination. For a country that was founded on freedom of discrimination, it seems that we have forgotten that. I don’t have a problem with a store saying no, based on true belief, and notice that I said true belief. This is just another example of rights being taken away. I don’t like it and it certainly isn’t a Christian thing to do. It hurts more than the adults involved, it also hurts the children and that is terrible.

    1. preacher richard h. says:

      The country wasn’t founded on freedom of Discrimination
      primarily founded for Freedom of religion
      That we didn’t get from England, an France n Spain also were an influence

      I think People think Families in America are like the way Hollywood n the media portray them
      shows like Modern Family is nothing like a modern Christian family
      and it corrupts society n the youth

      Kids should be adopted or placed with a women n a man BOTH bring different life lessons kids benefit from to make a Healthy adult in spirit , mind , and body

      what’s next adoption by pedophiles?
      or those that practice Bestiality?
      They claim they were born like that

      We have free will to choose how we act or who we lay with

      Just say ” I Won’t be Gay just for Today”
      and then Recovering homosexuals can Create their OWN BABIES.

      1. Don says:

        “Kids should be adopted or placed with a women n a man”

        A woman IN A MAN? Talk about unnatural!

        Also, you are one sick filthy piece of trash for equating homosexuality to bestiality or pedophilia…there’s this little thing called CONSENT. The fact that you don’t understand it makes me worry for any children under your care.

      2. Don says:

        Such ignorance. More proof Christianity is cancer.

      3. Don says:

        How cute. The “preacher” doesn’t know the difference between two consenting adults, and an adult molesting a child or an animal. Which tells us all we really need to know about this mongrel. Hopefully he doesn’t have access to children…or pets.

  12. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM says:

    You are so right Laurie, we do live in a nation founded on the principles of discrimination and unfortunately, some people will never evolve spiritually, nor will they walk the talk of their teacher..


      Thank you Lord

      1. Don says:

        You’re welcome.

        1. Lionheart says:


          You beat me to it Don!

  13. Gerardo Defendini says:

    OK here’s my take:
    I think immorality can be present or absent in both Heterosexual and Homosexual households. One only has to look at the news to confirm this. I think everyone should have the same rights regardless of the sexual orientation. The couple will have a mush harder job to do because society’s insistence on judging them but they should have the same rights as you and I. Period.

    1. Don says:

      Not society’s insistence, just a hateful, vocal group of religious bigots.
      Let’s not group these mongrels in with good, decent people.

  14. Rev. Brien says:

    Ok, I have read, threw up, and read some more. I am not surprised that the religious zealots are trying to badly quote their beliefs from some poorly translated book, which seems to be where they find their beliefs. First, belief comes from your heart, not some damn book. God gave you NOTHING. Man created his way, good and bad. Get over it already. Beliefs show in your actions. Those that show open hearts and minds look like good people. Those of you that hate because some damn book told you so look like assholes. I am tired of trying to sugar coat this so you zealots won’t get offended. Frankly, I no longer care if you are offended or not. You don’t care about anything else except some old book. Guess what? The world is waking up and deciding that you zealots are far to hateful to deal with, so the world is beginning to think for itself without you. You don’t get to decide who can and who can’t love. That is far beyond your control. Eventually, you and your bad ideas will be gone. My soul will celebrate that day. Children need homes, and love. If you prevent that, then YOU ARE EVIL. Remember, your actions show your true beliefs.

    1. Lionheart says:

      You are right on Brien. Religion is starting to take a nose dive at last in the right direction. People are starting to wake up to the stupid ideologies of religions. The secular humanists that I know are more caring and loving than many of these zealots who preach doom and gloom, and eternal blackmail, from that pathetic book. Children do indeed need homes of love, and caring, and hopefully well away from religion and all of its stupid religious indoctrination.

      1. Minister Dem says:

        Lionheart, I don”t know about you, but I for one am so tired of the wacko zealots thinking that they speak truth and law. The only thing that ever comes out of their mouth is ignorance and hate. I use to blame this on the poorly understood and mostly abused system of organized religion, but now I just believe that they are complete assh*les that just need to be swept under some dusty carpet. Maybe we need to ignore them, make them completely irrelevant so that the rest of us can get on with life. Every day I see it, and every day I feel soiled by it. It no longer even matters what the topic is for as long as we still have nutjobs making the rules, we will all be soiled by them. I just need to close my eyes now and drink my coffee.

  15. Ben says:

    Let’s cut the sh*t!
    These children need homes.
    As long as the parents aren’t convicted criminals, or Trump supporters, let them adopt.

    1. Minister Dem says:

      ROFLMAO…two thumbs up

  16. tom says:

    Respectfully…the Bill discriminates against the children…this is not a “moral” issue; it one of ethics…do not deprive children of loving homes because a group of legislators do not understand or abide by the ethics of compassion…Tom B

  17. John Owens says:

    Having never been an orphan, or been in charge of an orphan, I have no way of knowing what the orphans really think about this, but I IMAGINE that most children would be DELIGHTED to leave the orphanage to go and live with two doting parents, and, being children, would not be judgmental about their parents’ sexual proclivities.

    In this day and age, so many people are so damaged by abuse in different forms, bad parenting, bad decision-making, poor educations, substance abuse, crime, apathy, and just plain narcissism, it would be very difficult to say that one couple would make better parents than another. I would never consider myself pro-LGBTQ, but I have known some really really nice men who were gay, were not molesters of children, who would probably make EXCELLENT parents. I have also known some lesbian women who seem to be excellent parents.

    I think the children may well be much better off in the custody of two gay men than many modern heterosexual couples. Being heterosexual does not in and of itself make anyone a better parent. or a better person than anyone else. Some heterosexual couples are the epitome of evil.

    Just observations.

    1. tom says:

      John…well said…Peace… Tom B

      1. John Owens says:

        Thanks, Tom, and Peace right back at you.

    2. preacher richard h. says:

      Its Sick n Getting Sicker
      Here’s a thought If the Homosexuals n Lesbians are born that way as claimed.
      Then lets determine witch of the little orphans are Straight and have normal people adopt them an the deviants can adopt other like minded Little deviants

      That works right?

      1. Don says:

        Or we can just take all the ignorant cowardly hatemongers who call others ‘deviants’ and toss them off a cliff.
        That works, right?

        1. John Owens says:

          Works for me.

      2. Joni says:

        Wow a preacher speaking such hateful words definitely not a man of God. A man of God would give compassion, understanding, love . Nothing less. Bible says do not judge. You’re fear of not understanding others being different is sad.

  18. Laurie G. Cleveland, RN says:


  19. Carrie says:

    I am sick and tired of the stupid people who use “Christian” text to justify hate. You are little better than the white supremeists and nazi jerks who seek to control the country. You low life people are gone! You are in the minority! You, like the dinosaur, (of course you don’t believe in them, Arch Bishop Ussher said the bones were planted by your hate mongering god) are soon to be extinct! More and more, people are turning their backs on your child molesting, murder promoting “religion”. Homosexuals, lesbians, Trans, bi…they have been on this earth far longer than you or your stupid “god”! Marriage is another thing you assholes think you have cornered the market on! It just ain’t so! It has been around since long before you cockroaches crept into our kitchens! Get over yourselves! Jesus was the New Testament, not some hand picked crap from the Talmud! I am a Witch…we have been around since long before you parasites rose too! This site is for discussion…you turn it into a hate fest! Please, for all of our sakes, launch yourselves into deep space and leave this world in peace!

    1. Catherine Ohrin-Greipp, MSW, ADS, OM says:

      Wow Carrie, well stated. It is a disgrace isn’t’ it that some folks here who pretend to be ministers, do not take our ULC seriously or the accomplishments of ULC to embrace ALL people and to stand against discrimination of the LGBTQ community of brothers and sisters. Those poor people you refer to are lost and low vibration spirits who have no clue where they originally came from nor how to love one another. They are incapable of love and compassion and live in utter fear. Those who are not ULC ministers are a bunch of trolls who come here to stir up their brand of trash talk. Thanks for your comment Carrie.

    2. flugo says:

      Wow, ‘caries’, well stated! Your comments clearly illustrated your ignorance, bias, emotive generalizations and lack of scholarship.. Very little facts; immense amount of flatulence. And, your comments are, also, evidence of your decency, femininity, grace, refinement, womanhood.

      1. Christians do not seek to ‘control the country’. A lie.
      2. Jesus hated sin. He told people to repent. He judged the actions and intents of others. He encouraged us to judge, as
      3. You have failed to make the drastic distinction between ‘religion’ and ‘Christianity’.
      4. So, you witches, LGBTQxyz-ers have been around a long time. So what? So has lying, ignorance, sin, corruption, war,
      etc. Longevity is NO proof of validity or value.
      5. Christians do NOT think they have cornered the marriage market. A lie.

      Your posting is evidence you need to consider your eternal destiny. The ‘Jesus’, to which you referred, is lovingly urging you to repent and trust Him.

      1. Carrie says:

        Poppycock! You seem to have a lot of sewage floating around that tiny little brain. The Bible was rewritten so many times by biased individuals and no one knows which fable to fall for. The “evangelicals” in this country are true Nazis. And your god? Love me or I will kill you! Find something better to smoke. I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

        1. Don says:

          Just ignore flugo, Carrie. It’s one of the more vulgar, racist, homophobic coward trolls that lurk on this site. It’s like an itchy rash – ignore it and it goes away.

      2. Thomas Lippert says:

        You ar right. Never mind the leftists

  20. Joni says:

    Lets look at this open eyes really. 1. Who gives anyone a right to judge? 2. Doesn’t the bible state we should love one another as we love ourselves?

    3. What is unnatural? Because someone gay? You ever think man and women is unnatural to them?

    You ever sit and have a conversation with someone that’s attracted to the same sex?
    I have they believe in God just as much as we do! You can’t change how the brain is wired.
    If you could why change who they really are?
    I am a minister, what I believe is God way is just how he made each person! I believe our true sins is when you follow evil.
    Meaning you follow someone other then Jesus! You commit a crime knowing its wrong.
    Being gay isn’t a crime nor do we have a right to judge how someone feels or who they love.


  21. disregard says:

    I’m really too old to care about any of these comments although I think some were well thought out and others have a little more high school to finish. I, myself, will follow my Lord. I had too many things happen to me while in Vietnam to believe in coincidence. I firmly believe God put an entire herd of Angel’s on my shoulders at birth and I’ve certainly kept them busy. I just find it hard to believe so many people have posted such nastiness. Let me settle this my way. God bless each of you. We celebrate his resurrection this weekend. What ever your belief is there is no doubt in my mind regardless of your belief or non belief He is Risen!

  22. Myrna Alvarado says:

    God said NOTHING specifically about Homosexuality. Jesus said NOTHING specifically about homosexuality. Pedofilia, incest, rape; these are things that God and Jesus and the prophets spoke of. It’s only considered “abnormal” because men who say they’re speaking for God said so.

    God and Jesus wouldn’t want any child to suffer. That was another thing specifically mentioned. If a child needs a happy home, then they should have a happy home, simple.

    Render unto Caesar…

    1. Lionheart says:

      “God and Jesus wouldn’t want any child to suffer. That was another thing specifically mentioned. If a child needs a happy home, then they should have a happy home, simple.”

      Unless of course your god gets angry, then he can drown them, or, to please his sadistic side for an added thrill, he can kill the first born of every male boy. Just saying!


  23. Troy says:

    Two gay folks can’t make baby’s on their own, odviously they shouldn’t be given.

    1. Norma Battes says:

      April 17, 2019 at 6:11 am
      ” Two gay folks can’t make baby’s on their own, odviously they shouldn’t be given. ”

      Oh poopy. You’re a dismal failure, yet God still gave you a life.. And gay parents are doing better with their kids than you are with your brain. Obviously.

  24. Joni says:

    Some women and men couples can’t either so your point is what?

    1. preacher richard h. says:

      Well A man n women couple is Normal anything else is abnormal an deviant Choice

      1. Joni says:

        No they both get help from Doctors. Nothing different 😱 education

  25. Rev. Minister Pope Ningo says:

    Unfortunately all the comments above are wrong, as a Ordained Minister Pope of the Universal Life Church there is an imbalance here with homosexuality and I have been sent from above to fix it. Simply what needs to be done is we just need to kill them. Glory to to all that I consider holy and good. I hope that you all see the light and join me in my righteous quest to destroy the homosexual people and ensure that they never try to adopt. Thank you have a blessed day.

  26. Jimmy Moon says:

    If any of you need proof of a real GOD, look in the mirror. We are all created in HIS image. And no,sodomites are not good parents. You need ONE MAN ONE WOMAN .

    1. Lionheart says:

      Great analogy Jimmy. So, my wife was wondering if he has breasts, and a vagina “and” a penis, which would make him an ideal candidate for being an hermaphrodite I guess. What do you think?

      Also, if he has a navel, I’m wondering who his mom and dad are. Any thoughts Jimmy?


  27. Joni says:

    Yes look in the mirror, write down what you see! God would never speak such hateful words as he said you are all my children.

  28. Joni says:

    James 4:11-12 ESV

    Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

    James 1:26 ESV

    If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person’s religion is worthless.

    Titus 3:1-15 ESV

    Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, …

  29. John Palmer says:

    The God I understand doesn’t hate anyone. Have a glorious day.

      1. flugo says:

        ‘joh-knee and jo-knee’: Why don’t you do your homework? The holy, righteous, loving, forgiving and eternal God HATES!

        Psalm 10:31 God hates the coveter. John 3:36 God’s wrath is hanging over the errant. Psalm 11:5 God hates the wicked. And, there are many other references of His hatred . . . . especially sin.

        Please don’t embarrass yourself and the viewers with your false ‘opinions’!

        1. Joni says:

          It’s Joni, the God i know don’t hate, sorry you don’t carry the same faith or the same God i know! But i do wish you peace:)

          1. flugo says:

            ‘jo-knee’: The ‘god’ you know is NOT the god of the Bible. Sorry about that!

        2. Joni says:

          Flugo you sound pretty bitter. You research what that means. You will find he didn’t hate the person but the wicked ways they was living. Education

          God bless

          1. flugo says:

            ‘jo-knee’; ‘Education’? Alright, show me evidence that God didn’t hate the person.

          2. Joni says:

            First you shouldn’t troll, second spell my name right Joni, 3 you know so much your not looking to educate yourself. Unfortunately for your part, I don’t anger, I forgive, i love, as i said Read more dig for the meaning of the scripture you will find what you are so desperately seeking! Only God can open your eyes to what you need to see. Have a wonderful night

    1. Lionheart says:

      Yes, the ones he did hate he drowned in the great flood and other biblical events, so that took care of them. He can love the rest of us, if he exists at all. 😜

  30. Phataoh says:

    Number 3:17 “So now, kill all the boys, and kill every woman who has had relations with a man, 18but spare for yourselves every girl who has never had relations with a man. ” MOses was a sex slave trading Hitler character. A pagan whose personal God became the god of the ISraelites after who lead the attack and preached that it was OK for the Israelite’s to enslave ancient Egyptians because his god said all other races were bad poeople. The Israel Seed took down ancient Egypt with raids of slavery, selling sex slaves to the Arabs, something they still do today. Hence Hitler’s Final Solution. The only culture that Israelite know is slavery. The Hijab was created so that Arabs could travel with their captured slave women without anyone identifying them. Israel is the scourge of th earth. After the ancient Egyptians fled into Africa they massive slave trade stopped. They then turned to working as farm hands in Europe, still kidnapping people there and selling them to the Middle east. Then technology allowed and a new slave market opened in the Americas They Israelite Seed resumed trading the Ancient Egyptians that had then moved into central Africa. The Israelite horde led this slavery for another 400 years. Then it was abolished, they lost heir largest slave client in the new world and resume selling Europeans to England. When the English stopped they began selling Europeans to Arabs. The Arabs forbade them from selling Christians to Arabs. The The English had had enough of losing their women and children and helped the slave capturing kidnapping Jews to create there own country. No one wants to be their neighbor because everywhere they go so does slavery. The New Testament is actually a recorded document proving the fake trials the Israelite had as a pretext to kill all young ancient Egyptian men who had reach the age of Atate Yesous which simply means a 30 year old in Ancient Egyptian. That is why you have those mass graves in Egypt with yourn men that age. The Israelites took the Ancient Egyptian book of Light and made it into the Tolah or old testament, changing its contents to reflect their paganism. aka the Tanakh wich is the symbol of the Ankh which was a book of Ancient Egyptian logic etc, Ironic fact, Moses was the son of An ancient Egyptian Slave. So he was a half bredd that led to the enslavement and mass murder of his Mother’s People. The Irony here is that So was Hitler. A Pagan of One God is a Pagan of 1000 gods. Moses brought Monotheism to the world which is simply a one god version of Polytheism. A pagan is a pagan in the same way a Box is a Box no matter how much you will it to be a ball. To someone from another planet the logical pattern of a sorcerer is the same logical pattern of a Jew, same logical pattern of a Christian It is the emotion you put in the word pagan that changes, but the pgan is in the act of believing blindly in something that is not there because someone says it is. Good Day

  31. Joni says:

    So God said to Noah, “I have decided to destroy all living creatures, for they have filled the earth with violence. Yes, I will wipe them all out along with the earth!” (Gen. 6:13, NLT)

    “Look! I am about to cover the earth with a flood that will destroy every living thing that breathes. Everything on earth will die.” (Gen. 6:17, NLT)

    “There must be a male and a female in each pair to ensure that all life will survive on the earth after the flood. Seven days from now I will make the rains pour down on the earth. And it will rain for forty days and forty nights, until I have wiped from the earth all the living things I have created.” (Gen. 7:3b-4, NLT)

    1. Lionheart says:

      God! Every mans best friend, but don’t get him angry, he has a real mean streak in him.

      I knew a boy at school that was just like God. No one liked him, but no one dared tell him, or pick a fight with him, because he’d bonk you on the nose. He could be real mean too! The only friends he had were the ones that were scared of him. Just like God and his friends I guess!


  32. Oldaabill says:

    The responsibility for the child falls first to the biological father and mother. Historically, widows and orphans have not faired well in religious based societies. The Bible speaks of the responsibility of the Priest to be responsible for the care and support of widows and orphans, and the tithe is in part, for that purpose. In the US the government has taken over that responsibility. It is a secular function to care for orphans, that is, those children who have been abandoned by their parents. There is no religious aspect of secular functions. As much as one’s religion cries against lifestyle issues, it is up to the state. If you don’t like this, then foster and adopt as many orphans as you possibly can.

  33. Secretary3rd says:

    If you believe in a God the other side of that is a Devil. You can deal with me on a sane level as a God fearing person or deal with me as the Devil.You pray to your God that I do not have you struck by lighting. Have your house infest by flies, have your daughter sleep with half of the football team. If you will not serve me in your place of business then you shall see my wrath upon your house.
    Lice be upon you.
    If any adoption accepts any funds from the US government and or a 501(c) (3) status then it does not matter what their religion values are they must fellow government guidelines.

  34. Gary Minnis says:

    Stoodie Baker, I understand how evidence works. I grow weary of Don being a consistent troll. I am fine with his lack of belief. I am just sick of seeing him berate and name call. He’s a bully. If he can ask for proof of my deity, I can ask for proof of his claim that mine is a fairy tail.

  35. tedmacgillivray says:

    Laurie Cleveland, Bravo!

  36. Norma Battes says:

    Seems the question is does an entity have a right to discriminate by religion. I say yes. If a business can say no entry without shoes, it can do so for head covering. As a private entity it is their choice. HOWEVER(!), if that entity is required government compliance whether certifications, licences, or funding to legally operate, then federal and state anti-discrimination laws and regulations come into play. Do business as you wish, you just won’t have your health certificate. Or fire code compliance. Or ….
    Now, this story is about LGBT issues. What will people say about a Muslin being turned away from a christian agency? But wait, how about a Protestant refusing a Catholic? The religion(and sexual) neutral Federal government can only say, do as you wish but funding for child services, education programs, senior assistance or anything else you applied for is denied. No?
    This isn’t about gay or not gay. This is about attempting to change a fundamental tenet of the Constitution, a government free from religious bias.

  37. Rev says:

    The remarks made on this is very concerning!
    You claim to be a preacher, or a follower of Jesus. But you set here and do what the bible tells not to.

    Why would it matter to any of you who a person lays next to? Shouldn’t, not your home not your life!
    Some of my good friends are just that and raised children who are married to the other sex! Loving caring strong marriages!

    The person that thinks you can change being gay by saying I’m not, needs a lot of education!

    Each one that sets and judges is shameful not our place to do so!

    People that don’t believe in Jesus that’s your opinion keep as that! People who there is a higher power don’t shove it down other people throat!

    Be respectful to others, loving, understanding, listening goes a very long way.


    1. flugo says:

      ‘rev’?: It’s too bad a ‘rev’ doesn’t know what he/she talking about. Nor our place to judge, eh?

      Jesus told us how to judge. John 7:24 He also, told us to rebuke. Luke 17:3. We are to be discerning, evaluative and to rightly judge.

      So, ‘rev’, I hope your congregation is more discerning of truth than you obviously are.

      1. Rev says:

        You must be one bored person. Continue to read your missing a lot!! Have a blessed night!!

      2. Rec says:

        Matthew 7:1-5
        1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

  38. Bobby Sunrider (@BSunrider) says:

    I personally find it disgusting that people continue to use religion to spread the vile disease of bigotry. Can we please reclaim spirituality and religion as a balm of love and unity instead of as a weapon for hatred and division?

    1. John Owens says:

      Of course, so long as other religions are in agreement and practicing the same. If not, we commit a type of suicide by allowing others the upper hand through our being passive.

    2. preacher richard h. says:

      Its a Disgusting and un-natural choice to be Gay
      Get on your knees to Pray.
      say I wont be gay just for today
      every morning

      1. Joni says:

        Thats your opinion! Don’t push it on to others! God will decide that when its time!
        Your job should be is to have understanding, love, compassion!

        My place all are welcome 🙏

      2. Lionheart says:

        Ok Richard say it, you don’t need us to say it for you: “You won’t be gay just for today, you won’t be gay just for today, you won’t be gay just for today.”

        Try not to beat yourself up about it. Many people are gay and are totally fine with it. We’ll still love you Richard


        1. preacher richard h. says:

          If you follow my advice You can recover rom your disease and come closer to GODS Grace

          1. Lionheart says:

            What disease are you referring to Richard? Is it something that one can get a vaccination for to become well?


      3. Joni says:

        It’s not completely known why someone might be lesbian, gay, straight, or bisexual. But research shows that sexual orientation is likely caused partly by biological factors that start before birth.

        People don’t decide who they’re attracted to, and therapy, treatment, or persuasion won’t change a person’s sexual orientation. You also can’t “turn” a person gay. For example, exposing a boy to toys traditionally made for girls, such as dolls, won’t cause him to be gay.

        You probably started to become aware of who you’re attracted to at a very young age. This doesn’t mean that you had sexual feelings, just that you could identify people you found attractive or liked. Many people say that they knew they were lesbian, gay, or bisexual even before puberty.

        Although sexual orientation is usually set early in life, it isn’t at all uncommon for your desires and attractions to shift throughout your life. This is called “fluidity.” Many people, including sex researchers and scientists, believe that sexual orientation is like a scale with entirely gay on one end and entirely straight on the other. Lots of people would be not on the far ends, but somewhere in the middle.

    3. Tom B says:

      Bobby…agreed…Tom B

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