As protesters in cities across America continue to topple statues of Confederate leaders, slave owners, and other historical figures, some are sounding the alarm that things are going too far. Could religious monuments soon become targets? Conservative organizer Matt Schlapp thinks so, and he's warning that “statues of Jesus are next.”
Schlapp was roundly criticized for fearmongering. But it seems his prediction wasn’t so off base.
Some prominent progressive activists are now saying that Jesus is culpable of upholding white supremacy and thus deserves to come down as well. Writer and organizer Shaun King formalized the call to action in a tweet demanding all statues that depict Jesus as a white European be torn down.
Is Jesus Part of the Problem?
For hundreds of years of Western culture, Jesus has been popularly portrayed as a Caucasian man with fair skin. That’s despite the fact that most historical evidence points to Jesus being a much darker skinned person, probably of Middle Eastern descent.
Critics argue that this inaccurate depiction we’ve adopted is the equivalent of “whitewashing” Jesus, making his appearance more palatable and “pure” to white people. Within that framing, Jesus himself is not the problem – it’s the way he is portrayed in so many paintings, sculptures, and statues because it plays into the idea that white skin is superior to darker tones.
But does that mean we should tear down all the statues of Jesus that don’t portray him accurately? Or should we come to terms with the fact that historical figures – and the artists that create their likenesses – are complicated.
To Topple or Not to Topple
That’s precisely the same debate playing out on the ground in the United States regarding famous figures in American history. Amid massive protests against racial injustice, people began targeting statues of the Confederacy and removing them by force. But now activists are taking things a step further and focusing on a broader range of monuments – figures who had nothing to do with the Confederate flag.
That’s led some to ask: where should we draw the line?
Over the weekend, activists in San Francisco vandalized and toppled a statue of Ulysses S. Grant, the former U.S. president who served as general of the Union Army and led his troops to victory in the Civil War. Their reasoning? Grant once owned a slave (who he later set free).
Protesters in Portland defaced and tore down a statue of the nation’s first president, George Washington, because he was a slaveowner.
So is that the new standard? Anyone who owned a slave?
Well, not exactly. The American Museum of Natural History has announced it will be removing a statue of former president Teddy Roosevelt which has stood outside the entrance since 1940. Roosevelt never owned slaves (he was five years old when the Emancipation Proclamation was signed) but the statue negatively depicts black and indigenous peoples, the museum explained.
Finding Balance in History
Those who support the removals insist that a true reckoning with the demons of America’s past is long overdue. We should stop celebrating men who helped uphold a system built on white supremacy, they argue. Apparently, that also means taking down statues of white Jesus.
But not everyone is convinced this is the right path. Critics are concerned that this exercise amounts to an arbitrary “purity test” by which small groups of activists – not voters – get to decide which statues are allowed to remain and which aren’t.
They also say it’s not fair to judge figures of the past by the standards of today. Critics maintain that if we allow this behavior to continue unchecked, letting the mob “cancel” any historical figure that ever did something wrong, then pretty soon we’ll have no statues left.
Where do you stand?
211 comments
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Carol A siebert
Are you people for real? The only thing I see is not black or white but evil and hate. Just because you feel something about someone or something we are supposed to destroy it and put it away in storage. Who the hell died and made you king! You offend me! Leave our country and take your family with you. Try this bull in any other country and see where it gets you! Prison for a long time! Destroying our country is not the answer. Everyone is created equal. Am I bias, No, my family is half black and white. Stop this madness! Try getting along with each other. If the statues bother you compromise and have black statues. I agree with you James M Slack!
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Saacha T Spade
As a Black Woman, one thing that I have noticed about the United States is that denial is very prevalent. Jesus was not a Caucasian, nor was He a Christian. Many people commenting on this post are more concerned about property damage and looting of material possessions than you are the loss of life at the hands of watchdogs of the controllers aka legalized murder. Police originated from being Slave catchers of my Ancestors. This entire country was stolen based on the slaughter of Native Americans (which are my Ancestors) and built for free by Africans (which are also my Ancestors). So this great country that many are proud of is wreaking with a stench so foul that it can never be in alignment with The Most High until it repairs, repents and restores. If you are upset about the removal of deliberately misleading, untruthful art that contributes to the mental and physical oppression of people of color, you are most certainly a part of the problem. Blacks people contribute a very large amount of the finances to the Christian church in America and unfortunately those inaccurate depictions of Jesus subconsciously have programmed us to view Caucasians as some type of authority over our lives. We are not coming for Jesus... we are coming from this gross, disrespectful depiction of Jesus that has been used as a weapon to suppress truth. If you are a TRUE follower of Christ you would want an accurate representation of who you say you believe in but that may mean coming out of denial and admitting that your Savior was not someone who looked like you. If you were a TRUE follower of Christ, you would be infuriated about the treatment of people of color, you would stand up for the fair treatment of people of color and you would come out of denial about this political entrainment of right wing/left wing and realize it’s the same destructive bird, you would address the mental illness of white supremacy and you would be against the mistreatment of people who have been subjected to draconian laws and legalized abuse and murder. By the way, many of these rioters and looters that you have identified with Black Lives Matter are Caucasian people who have infiltrated the movement for their own cause like they have done with EVERY cause where Black people have unified for our own protection and progression. Beverly Hill’s wasn’t looted by Black people. Large piles of bricks being strategically positioned in front of courthouses and police stations so that people can throw them and set buildings on fire were not placed there by Black people. The KKK masquerading as police officers going into neighborhoods of Black people terrorizing the residents were not Black people. The confederate flag flying trucks that come through shooting up protests with AK-47s and other assault weapon Ry was not done by Black people. ,Using military year gas against peaceful protesters and shooting rubber bullets at peaceful protesters was not done by Black people. We are a very forgiving people who have dealt with CENTURIES of abuse. We have prayed to Jesus and God for CENTURIES to be restored and to forgive our enemies. We have obeyed laws and done what we can to put ourselves in a better position despite no restitution from this government. We are not naturally violent or revengeful people because if we were, no oppressor that we have ever had would be around to talk about it or to continue with those antics. So check your mental programming and search your heart. If you feel offended fand appalled that a country that was built on violence, terror, slavery and murder needs a serious overhaul, I guess you will just be offended. By the way, to the commenters who have said for us to take our family back where we came from... we are already here. Take your false sense of privilege, pseudo-authoritarian and nonsensical superiority back to the pit of hell where it came from. My Ancestors blood is in this soil and if anything, this country is more of ours than it is to those who have lived privileged lives based on our oppression.
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Daniel J. Trebas
Very well said. And I agree with everything. Though, being of French, Indian, and Irish ancestry I find my own inner conflicts in trying to honor and respect all my ancestors, especially when I identify more with indigenous people's cultures. It should also be noted that it was the Roman church's white jesus representations that led the advance of colonialism. With indigenous people suffering horrendous offenses under the pretense of their "souls" being saved by a white Jesus, so the European invaders could rape, pillage and plunder with a "clean" conscious
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Anisahoni
Thank you thank you.
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skye riversong
Just end all representational art. All of it. No statues, no pictures. Of anyone. Christianity is, after all, a religion of wypipo. African people had their own indigenous religion. I'm surprised they haven't returned to it. Nordic people should return to asatru, Buddhism and yoga belong to Asian people and to nobody else. Everyone stay in your lane and stop appropriating beliefs, traditions, religions, clothes, music, and anything else that isn't yours.
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Daniel Gray
And islam is a religion of Arabs....so what?
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Ilmenheru Terikson
Psst hey guess where Christianity was started, yeah thats right the middle east. Christianity is the native faith of no where that would be considered a naturally primary white people country.
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Daniel Gray
And your point is what exactly? And to be honest, it started in Rome when Peter went there, before all it was, was an Israeli teacher and his 12 followers
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T Kosse`
Christianity originated with the ministry of Jesus in the 1st century Roman province of Judea. According to the Gospels, Jesus was a Jewish teacher and healer who proclaimed the imminent kingdom of God and was crucified c. AD 30–33. His followers believed that he was then raised from the dead and exalted by God, and would return soon at the inception of God's kingdom.
The earliest followers of Jesus were apocalyptic Jewish Christians. The inclusion of gentiles in the developing early Christian Church caused a schism between Judaism and Jewish Christianity during the first two centuries of the Christian Era. In 313, Emperor Constantine I issued the Edict of Milan legalizing Christian worship. In 380, with the Edict of Thessalonica put forth under Theodosius I, the Roman Empire officially adopted Trinitarian Christianity as its state religion, and Christianity established itself as a predominantly Roman religion in the state church of the Roman Empire. Christological debates about the human and divine nature of Jesus consumed the Christian Church for a couple of centuries, and seven ecumenical councils were called to resolve these debates. Arianism was condemned at the First Council of Nicea (325), which supported the Trinitarian doctrine as expounded in the Nicene Creed.
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Daniel Gray
Sorry but no. Christianity didnt originate until Peter went to the Roman Empire. Until that time it was still nothing more then a teacher and his 12 followers in the middle east. And if they had not left this area then there would be no such thing as Christianity
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T Kosse`
Believe whatever you want and say what ever you like Daniel Gray. It will never change the fact that you are wrong. As I said before that Just like ostrich you keep your head stuck in the Sands of denial.
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Daniel Gray
I believe what history shows. But if you want to continue to post your myths then feel free.
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T Kosse`
By the way this is what the word "originate" means:
Originate verb
to come from a particular place, time, situation, etc.:
Some example of how the word originate is used in a sentence:
originate in: Although the technology originated in the UK, it has been developed in the US.
originate at: This flight originated at Los Angeles airport and is continuing to Boston and then Madrid.
originate from: sb/sth They are studying complaints believed to have originated from retailers.
The word originate also means:
To start something or cause it to happen:
As in: We plan to improve our marketing program using ideas originated by our customers.
What you are talking about is when formally it was recognized as a state religion in Rome. However it was first legalize In 313, when Emperor Constantine I issued the Edict of Milan
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Daniel Gray
mad because you were proved wrong?
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T Kosse`
mad ? I don't know how you came about that conclusion, anyway it not important. I just posted the facts as they are stated. You can either accept the facts as they are stated or not either way it on you not me.
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T Kosse`
His point is the middle East being where Christianity originated with the ministry of Jesus in the 1st century Roman province of Judea. The people that were born and lived in the area would been more of a olive-brown skin tone rather then white.
“We do have to remember Jesus is a Jew,” Looking at how he has been clothed artistically, he is describes as wearing a Jewish mantle, or tallit, with the fringes — tzitzit — mandated in the Torah.
“He looked like a wandering Jewish sage,” We can credited scientists such as Israeli biohistorian Yossi Nagar with researching “not only skeletal remains, but all aspects of the human body — that kind of scholarship they’re doing in Israel, trying to understand people’s average heights, ethnic profiles, from composite skeletons in Judea and other skeletons of neighboring people in the same time period. “According to Yossi Nagar, Jews of Second Temple times had a lot in common with Jews from the area of Iraq today,” Iraqi Jews are the closest in skeletal type to what is found in first-century burials than other communities in the Jewish Diaspora.
“There’s kind of an ethnography for Jesus, looking at Eastern Jews, that’s really helpful. It’s all really good in terms of coloration, palate for Jesus’s skin, hair, eye color,” When they also examined clothing from the period — assembled a composite portrait, depicting it in a drawing.
Jesus stood about five feet, five inches tall, “with olive-brown skin, brown-black hair and brown eyes,” quite likely that his hair was “shortish” and that he had “some kind of beard (though not a long one).” He plausibly wore two mantles — an outer one for warmth, and an inner tallit with tzitzit — and walked in sandals. he was physically average in appearance, based on the Gospels’ lack of specific descriptions.
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Lumina
You are so correct
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Nancy Cassandra Pratt
In one place in Daniel, another in Revelation and more. " Hair white, like wool... Sounds black to me!
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Frederick Richard Sneathern
In this context. the color of hair was being portrayed not the texture of his hair. Hair white, like wool. it was the color of wool. Jesus had olive skin, not black or white.
Jesus was a Hebrew and often called a Nazarene.
Nazareth is the largest city in the Northern District of Israel. Nazareth is known as "the Arab capital of Israel". The inhabitants are predominantly Arab citizens of Israel, of whom 69% are Muslim and 30.9% Christian. Jesus most likely had Arab type features and skin color. God the father is spirit and not a skin color and dwells is in all people for we are the true temple of God. All people tend to think of God and Christ as being their race and technically they are is the sense of the word. But the Body of Christ was Hebrew and most likely of Arab characteristics. The great artist of the times portrayed Christ in their own image or nationality. The Great Masters of art, were largely European. Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Raffaello Santi's Papal frescoes, Hugo Van Der Goes. of the 1400's Who of course never heard or thought of such a thing as prejudice black slavery or even white supremacy.
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William Breiannis
Ummmm...no it isn’t.
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Daniel Gray
Umm yes. sorry
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
And don't forget about those totem poles, which never represented America as a whole. And not just the Native American totems, but tiki totems too.
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Minister Mike
Any one born in America is a Native American. If the reference is to the people who first appeared in America, including Alaska, Hawaii, and any of the territories, the correct term is aboriginal.
And the tribes of North America are related by DNA to the tribes in Alaska, all of which originated in Asia.
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Anisahoni
Sorry, totems are not Native American. They as Alaska Native. We are not related to them.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
I stand corrected. Thank you mam.
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Anisahoni
You are most welcome dear Carl. :)
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CB Cuff
Totem poles can be found along the North American coast from Alaska to California. As Minister Mike points out, they are of one collective ethnic group. We'll keep Mexico and Central America populace for another conversation.
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Daniel Gray
Then you are a fool. Chehalis, Colville, Cowlitz, Hoh, Jamestown S’Klallam, Kalispel, Lower Elwha Klallam, Lummi, Makah, Muckleshoot, Nisqually, Nooksack, Port Gamble S’Klallam, Puyallup, Quileute, Quinault, Samish, Sauk-Suiattle, Shoalwater Bay, Skokomish, Snoqualmie, Spokane, Squaxin Island, Stillaguamish, Suquamish, Swinomish, Tulalip, Upper Skagit, and Yakama, Duwamish, Wanapum, and Chinook ALL have Totem Poles and they live in Washington State and South Western British Columbia. And I can name you a lot of other Clans/Tribes that have totem poles. So for a person who claims to be descended from Native Americans and yet to this day STILL has refused to name what Clan or Nation you truly are ignorant as the Native Americans in Canada and the US are ALL descended from the Inuit peoples as they expanded out from Alaska. IN fact if you want to be historically accurate, everything east and south of Alaska descended from the Inuit people and thats clear down to the south pole.
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Anisahoni
Poor Daniel. I would like to suggest an excellent read for you. "White Rage" by Dr. Carol Anderson of Emory University. It might be a big help to calm you down. You seem so agitated at us. Maybe a soak in the tub with some lavender would help you. Blessings.
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Daniel Gray
And why would I want to read this? I am not white
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Anisahoni
Truly an Apple. Yes, I have met lots of so called Cherokees with blonde hair and blue eyes who know nothing of our traditions. I am surprised you didn't claim that your great great grandmother was a Cherokee princess. Your CDIB does not make you Cherokee. If Wilma were alive she would give you some strong words for your disrespect toward Elders, arrogance and failure to actually Walk The Talk. She told it like it was and in a diplomatic way and Chad would give you a talking to as well.Your behavior and attitude toward me does not exude the Cherokee Way. To the contrary, you exude White Rage. Shame. In all my 71 years dancing on the Pow Wow trail around the US and attending ceremonies, and working with other tribes, I have Never met a Cherokee or member of any other nation who believed that racist mascots are ok. Please do some self reflecting on becoming a Real Cherokee man. My clan has no meaning for you until you change your ways. Aniwaya are better than this.
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Daniel Gray
Sure you are. and if you were a Native American then you would be proud to say what Tribe/Clan or nation you were...and yet its missing.
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Daniel Gray
And as for Blond haired blue eyed Cherokees, lie to yourself if it makes you happy but do NOT try and lie here about this or to me as Principal Chief Chuck Hoskin Jr is stating that you are not telling the truth. There ARE NO such Cherokee who have Blond hair and Blue Eyes. So either you are lying or they are lying or both. I will let you choose which.
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Anisahoni
You are truly an apple DG. The fact that you claim that we are descendants of the Inuit is not only laughable, but absolutely outrageous and tells me you are fake. Your fake CDIB card and Dawes descendant claim means nothing when you show an absolute ignorance of our traditional stories including our origin stories and utter disrespect toward others. John Partin is right about you. I do not owe you anything, let alone any more info about my clan or my family. You and I are not related and you do not deserve any respect from me. If you have not figured out my tribal affiliation from my response above, then you are truly an apple and fake Cherokee. Probably one of those blonde haired and blue eyed ones who claim your great great grand mother was Cherokee princess that I have encountered many times over the years. Why do you want to know my clan?You expect me to "prove" who and what I am to you because you scream and rant and make false accusations? I don't have to, just to annoy you and will continue to see you rant more and more like an angry White man you are. Get a grip little boy.
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Daniel Gray
And you are truly full of sour grapes when proved wrong. Now I suppose you are going to try and say that the Chief of the Cherokee Nations has no idea what he is talking about? I mean he only runs the Nation so maybe we should listen to you instead (sarcasm intended) And as for Johnny, he has been destroyed more times then Carter has liver spots so only a fool would listen to his claims and not check them out. So what does that make you?
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John D. Partin
DG, "destroyed more times than Carter has liver spots", according to you, and actually destroyed are two entirely different things, since you don't even know or admit the truth about yourself or when you are DESTROYED!!!! and successfully refuted in arguments!! So, how could you possibly know the truth about anyone else?!! What does that make anyone who listens to your claims and doesn't check them out and refute them, except a FOOL!!, the same as you!!
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Vern Dee Wall
Jesus is not just white, He is Italian! All the prophets in paintings and statues had Italian beards. That is because the artists and models were all Italian. So what?
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Lumina
Jesus is Jew what planet did you come from
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Vern Dee Wall
Excuse me, we are talking about statues here.
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William Cureton Fox
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the ...
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
You are right!
No likeness of any thing!
PHOTOS are more accurate likenesses than any statues Please delete ALL photos first.
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Lumina
You believe in not having pictures of your family, then you should destroy them. Is like destroying statues have respect for them. We are not praying to them we pray to jesus is just a reminder of there images. So respect them
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Jennifer A Stauffer
No idols of any. Take all statues down.
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Minister Carlos Ricardo Walls
God loves all his children.However not the violence,racist acts people do in his name.Amen.
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Lionheart
Should the statues of Obama come down?
🦁❤️
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T Kosse`
The question is why does it offend you. Obama is not the reason for all this chaos. He was in charge for 8 years. Trump in charge for 4 years and the country has went to hell. But let's blame someone who left office 4 years ago. You people are a special kind of stupid."
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Lionheart
It appears to be people of the Obama mentality (leftists/socialists/Democrats) that are creating the riots, looting, and destruction of property and businesses. The Democrat states/cities seem to be incapable of doing anything about it. Don’t you think it’s those people that are a special kind of stupid?
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T Kosse`
Get real politics has nothing to do with why people go out to loot and burn and destroys things. They are just opportunist taking advantage of any situation, that may arise were the police or authorities are overwhelmed. They really don't give a damn whether you are Democrat or Republican, Rich or Poor, White black or Brown
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T Kosse`
Sonnet #45 with apologies to Elizabeth Barrett Browning
I how I loathe thee; by Patsy Fergusson
How do I loathe thee? Let me count the ways
I loathe thee to the depth and breadth
and height
Your hair can reach, when combing
out of sight
Your naked scalp and empty pate.
I loathe thee to the level of every day’s
Most desperate need, of children dying
In cages, women scorned, and green
earth fracked.
I loathe thee freely, as you oppose and
Mock all those who strive for good.
I loathe thee purely, as you praise thyself
Without surcease.
I loathe thee with the passion put to use
for honest living.
In my old griefs, and with my
Childhood’s faith.
I loathe thee with loathing I seem to lose
When lost saints held thy office. I loathe
Thee with the breath,
Frowns, tears, of all my life; and if God
Choose,
I shall but loathe thee better after death
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
There are far too many stupid people in this country. That's for damn sure!
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T Kosse`
Trump has shown a total disregard for the rule of the law and the United States Constitution as it applies to him and his cronies. He has corrupted everything and anything he has touched. He has incited racism, prejudice and violence towards others. He has shown no empathy to anyone but himself. He is narcissistic, self-center, racist, bigoted and misogyny.
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Lionheart
Thank you for your perspective. November will decide how many hold your point of view.
Biden possibly has the same point of view. It will be interesting to see if by November he understands he’s in an election, and if by a fluke he wins, I wonder if he will know what he’s won.
🦁❤️
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T Kosse`
Well I guess we'll just have wait and see won't we.
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CB Cuff
And to go back to the topic of statues, Americans can rest assured that they will never have to be concerned about tearing down a Trump statue. Unfortunately his image will appear in various government 'archives'. Who would have thunk that George Bush #2 could be outdone.
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Lionheart
I understand there’s a move afoot to add Trump to all those other Republican images on Mt Rushmore. Perhaps after his second term.
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CB Cuff
Ooohh, well, I guess he would of course have to have his own mountain. Then he'd need to put a fence around it. Then he'd have to..... Appreciate your humour LH.
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Lionheart
I think it’s a bit if a no-brained while ever Biden is struggling with his mental acuity. If the Democrats select a different opposition they might stand a better chance in the election, as long as Hillary is not selected again.
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, there is nothing wrong with Biden's mental acuity, especially considering that he is responding to the covid-19 crisis, racial injustice and police brutality, and other matters and questions being put before him, while your supposedly "on the ball president' never responds to any of it and only evades his responsibility and answers to any questions!! No doubt, he is preparing for his retirement from the presidency on January 20th when he won't have to be bothered with any more questions or presidential responsibilities, as all the polls show that he will be retiring from the office then!!! He never wanted any of those responsibilities as president, anyway, and very soon he will get his wish!!! Until then, he could do himself a favor and follow Joe Biden's lead in being responsive and responsible, with the time that he has left, anyway!!
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Lionheart
It sounds like you’re panicking. I’m looking forward to any debate between the two of them. I’m dying to know if Biden can complete at least one intelligible sentence.
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, if nothing but solid confidence in Joe Biden's LANDSLIDE VICTORY!!!! over Trumpelstiltskin, shared by all the polls and everyone who can still honestly and sensibly gauge the country's feeling and reality, sounds like "panicking" to you, you must be as confused and delusional as he is!!! Once again, the evidence clearly shows that Joe Biden has no problem completing intelligible sentences and even excels at them, despite your characterization of him, since that is what he has been doing in these press briefings and speeches, which is far more than your "man" can honestly claim!! So, Biden will certainly have no trouble besting someone in a debate who can't think or formulate sentences any better than to suggest that people should drink bleach as "a cure for covid-19" or use ultra violet light shown through their skin or up their asses for the same purpose, not to mention all the scandals that Trumpelstiltskin has in his administration and all around him now. You are the one who sounds like you are panicking and need to be panicking!!!
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Lionheart
We will see which one of us is really delusional on November 3rd.
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Minister Mike
Not so much. The people rioting, stealing, damaging property, etc. are criminals with no politics other than 'what's yours is mine', much like the white supremacist supported conservative republican party.
The people protesting, however, are protesting against the white supremacist supported conservative republican party and their blue-clad thugs.
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Daniel Gray
Republican thugs? Are you serious? Its snowflakes and antifa and left wing idiots that are destroying Portland ....not the GOP
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Kim Currier
BLACK LIVES MATTER AND JESUS IS A MAN OF COLOR :)
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
No, the statues of Obama should be placed standing on top of statues of Trump, similarly to how St. Michael is vanquishing the powers of evil beneath his feet, as in those famous paintings, such as the copy I have on my wall, by Bartolome Esteban Murillo.
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T Kosse`
Yes I very much like that idea Carl Bernard Elfstrom. We should have two statues commissioned that is larger than life size, made of bronze. We can placed one statue in front of the Trump Tower in New York city and the other statue placed in front of Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach Florida.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
No, Lionheart, we should add to the statues of Obama statues of Trump down on his knees before him, and one behind that of Biden facing Trump's exposed backside, with a big smile on his face.
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T Kosse`
Carl Bernard Elfstrom How will you be able tell which end is Trump's rear end. Since ends both look alike and whatever come out of that huge blob that is known as Trump stinks, no matter which end it come from. If you were to fill him with helium he would look like a grotesque Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade balloon.
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Lumina
You believe in not having pictures of your family, then you should destroy them. Is like destroying statues have respect for them. We are not praying to them we pray to jesus is just a reminder of there images. So respect them
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Minister Mike
And you know what 45's butt looks like from personal experience?
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T Kosse`
No not from personal experience, it just every time see him, I could swear that they must have gotten the wrong end showing. Then who know maybe it is his head showing and he just butt ugly.
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T Kosse`
And Trump lips just look like spinster muscle and when he talk it just sounds like he farting.
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Lionheart
Love you for your humor Bro Carl. 🍻
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Brien
Well, I hate to say I told you so.......rofl. I said all this bs was circling the drain.....TADA...... Will someone please flush now so we can clear the slate? Every day there is a new wack job with an ax to grind. There is plenty of hate to go around. To the law enforcement and emergency fire/rescue responders I give the following advice: Do not risk your lives any longer. It is not worth it. Every day you wake up is now a gift. Care for you and yours, let the rest fall. Eventually, people will run out of things to hate and they will turn on each other. It will happen. Just sit back and wait for the reboot button. 😁
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Jay Wolf
The amount of hate being generated of late is feeling like ISIS and their destruction of all the Christian and historical sights they seized in Syria and the rest of the region.
We now must rewrite history because it offends? This is crazy.
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Lori Mongillo
History does need a rewrite and it should be factual. The history books have glorified those who, in reality, held no glory. We need to learn to be realistic and as truthful as possible. Unfortunately, people truly believe that their personal perceptions are what is real. The political left and right, religious leaders and advertisers manipulate people like pawns in a chess game, whether you choose to accept it or not. When we start realizing this we can step away from the hatred and chaos and start living more authentically. We are perfect puppets that actually believe we are pulling our own strings.
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Nancy Cassandra Pratt
I truly believe the "great falling away" is the result of the understanding that Jesus IS a black man. People just won't be able to accept the truth.
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Minister Mike
History isn't being rewritten, although much of it should be because what American children are taught is only what white supremacists permit. Yes, if you aren't fighting against white supremacy, you are a large part of the problem.
The removal of confederate statues , and any publicly viewable art that continues to revere slavery, is long overdue. Why an American would venerate traitors who fought against our country to preserve slavery is beyond me, but there is a laughable perspective to it. Why in the world is anybody trying to preserve the legacy of a bunch of losers? 🤣
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Ren
This is utter NONSENSE. So far the statues and memorials that have been protested against have been on PUBLIC property. I'm pretty sure that there aren't any statues depicting Jesus on public land (violation of church and state) ... This is a NON-ISSUE ... No government can demand any church do anything, except with regards to public safety.
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T Kosse`
I agree with Ren This is utter NONSENSE is a NON-ISSUE. Just because one or two people make a asinine statement. suddenly everyone take it as the gospel truth written in stone. This is how false rumors get spread and out of hand. First take the time to engage your brain before you engage your mouth, find out what is true and what is false.
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Minister Mike
Interesting, and this time I agree with the nuts. Statues of white Jesus' should come down because the DO represent white suppression of blacks and other minorities. As pointed out, Jesus was not a white man - most likely his skin was very dark, his nose larger than most white peoples' noses, and, because he was a native Jew in Palestine, he looked like many other typical middle eastern men.
White Europeans and their descendants enslaved blacks and North and South American indigenous people for centuries in Europe and the Americas. Whites made pictures and sculptures of how they thought Jesus looked, not how he probably appeared. So, yeah, bring those icons of black slavery down, too.
Don't get all het up - it wasn't and isn't Jesus' fault, so leave the reality of him alone. Want pictures of Jesus -paint 'em how he probably looked - dark-skinned, dirty hair and beard, and all the rest of it.
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Shango MasterExorcist, D.D.
We should first take a look at his birth certificate.
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Brian Konrad Elliott Balke
Actually, paint him any old way that makes space in your heart for him...
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Nancy Cassandra Pratt
And, please, on His return, run to Him.
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John P Maher
NO, UNLESS YOU ARE COMPLETELY FREE of ANY SINs, CRAWL !!!
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Tonnia Marie Hart
In the Bible it says Jesus has hair of wool and bronze feet. It does not say he was blind hair and blue eyes. If you don't believe me read it. I grew up in the Catholic Church, Baptism communion, confirmation, Bible study and when I asked why is this Jesus on the wall look different from Jesus they described in the Bible? Nuns just change the subject as fast as they can. However we were Thought that he was pale skin with hair blue eyes and not brown with hair of wool. People are not keeping Silent anymore.
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Kim Currier
100 percent correct in the 6th century he went from a Brown Middle eastern to a white guy , So many will be surprised on Judgment day when a Brown Middle Eastern guy is waiting on them to Judge them, Most will freak out because they have been lied to their whole life . Jesus was not a white guy,,,, Very brown... and not the white guy churches preach he is ,
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Saacha T Spade
Comment removed by user.
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Brian Konrad Elliott Balke
Thanks for you comment Saacha. The entirety of the Bible resolves around one issue: the authority of love in confrontation with hierarchies of power. The experience of your people in America has brought that point to a focus in a way that no other history could achieve. I pray that you keep your eyes focused on the possibility of justice. I hope the Jesus' ministry points the way toward resources that only those that forgive are allowed to grasp. Blessings.
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Cynthia L. Clark
We love to worship the graven image and not so much to embody the ideals it stands for. Yet, I would not remove statues or depictions of Jesus, no matter what the appearance- they do carry inspiration. Asians don’t own The Dao, they are given the responsibility to teach about it, nor is there any trademark on the Buddha. Native Americans didn’t patent Mother Earth/Father Sky, they are given the responsibility to share their rich understanding of nature in the universe to all who will listen, until we can begin to know the stories ourselves, as a whole people. Christ belongs to no one, no matter where he came from or what she looks like, and everyone no matter where they come from or what they look like. Christians are supposed to embody his ideals and share them, right? This also involves uncovering the ways in which each of these religions and more have been co-opted by states to suit a political agenda. Still, rather than tearing down statues, I would prefer we make new ones in all colors. Keep them in homes and in churches, just like the remnants of a slave holding past belong in museums, not on the town square. Other than that, I am not too upset if those images come down. Is anyone seriously saying their faith in God, or any other religious ideal would be shaken if he couldn't see it in a painting or a statue?
All that said, I think this is a nonissue that has been introduced by a paranoid white evangelical with a white supremacist agenda to undermine the real need in America for criminal justice reform, addressing economic/social inequality and true equality of opportunity for people of all races, genders, cultures, religions, etc. that have been hijacked by white supremacists- since the founding of our country. Black Lives Matter enough for their lives to be defended without having to give "equal time" to the obvious. We are also being asked to quit giving lip service to the ideals of our Constitution and to start living like we mean them.-
Nancy Cassandra Pratt
I"m sorry that you miss so much of the intended scriptures, and its NOT your fault. Ask God to reveal the truth to you and be ready for "The Awakening".
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Rev. Barry
I feel that all Confederate statues should be in museums. Just as there are still Nazi memorabilia Kept in some museums
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Nancy Cassandra Pratt
uh, no!
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TheSound.com
Just paint the faces a darker, more realistic color (olive-colored skin with a tan), which would be more appropriate for a man from Nazareth at that time and remember the Bible say not to make any graven images (statues to worship) so, in Biblical terms, there is no need to have statues of Jesus (Yeshua) at all.
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Nancy Cassandra Pratt
Almost correct, just READ your bible!
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John R
This is about trying to generate hysteria to help save their precious symbols of self-supremacy. There is no burgeoning movement to tear down religious statues.
The threat is not coming from anyone saying THEY WANT statues of Jesus to be torn down, it's about Conservatives saying that's what "the Left" wants to do.
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Jennifer A Stauffer
Jesus was not white or blue eyed. That was part of the white supremacy, take them down.
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Clay Serenbetz
There was a thorough discussion on many sides of this topic on "The View" ABC, 6/22/20. See: https://abc.com/shows/the-view. All four participants had a different point of view, so this episode offers a good opportunity to experience different perspectives. I have been aware of the mischaracterization of Jesus' persona for many years despite my traditional education which included substantial revisionist history. There are also many mischaracterizations of his teaching and revelations since he was born. Education is needed, particularly theological epistemology to better address this issue.
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ed
Here is the problem. Jesus also turned up tables and used a whip. Religious people are going to be nice for a little while keep pushing this idiotic redrick. Relious people will step up and you won't like what you see. God's in control of these far off the wall Pharisee's. May God always be our focal point. We have the book that teaches history seems like the book is right again. May GOD watch over all of us even the defiant. Love, Rev. Edward Morgan
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Daniel Gray
I wouldnt be doing this anymore. The ones who tried to take down the statue of Jefferson in DC are now facing 10 years in a federal pen. And Trump is signing an EO today telling the states and cities that either they protect the statutes or they will face the loss of federal funds and the people who remove the statues will also be looking at 10 years in a federal prison. This stupidity has to stop. and if it takes putting a few of these Antifa or BLM terrorists in prison so they can deal with actual criminals on a daily basis to see the errors of their ways and be used as examples to other brain deads who may want to try this, then so be it. Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeate it and how can we learn from the past if all the examples are removed because they offend someone. I have said it before and I will say it again, one of the most popular chewing tobaccos is called Red man. I am of the Wolf Clan of the Cherokee nation and I dont take offense to this or the naming of school or professional teams after Native Americans. So whats the big fuss?
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John D. Partin
Oh well, Little Baby Danny doesn't take offense at a popular brand of chewing tobacco's being called Red Man or at schools or professional teams' being named after Native Americans, and so that solves everything!!! We didn't have to go through all this harangue of Native Americans' objecting to those names when all that was necessary was just their going to him in the first place to find out what he thought about it because, of course, "he speaks for all Native Americans everywhere"---in his own egotistical and confused "mind", anyway!! Short of everyone's having to wait until he came along to know the "right" way of thinking about this and returning to reality, however, Native Americans' objecting to Red Man chewing tobacco and Red Devils (an insulting term for Native Americans!) and Cleveland Indians, Atlanta Braves, Kansas City Chiefs, Washington Redskins, Florida State Seminoles, and other such trivializing and mocking of Native Americans' names for professional teams and schools is no more unreasonable or surprising than black people's objecting to white people's trivializing and mocking black people in wearing "black face" (shoe polish on their faces) during minstrel shows or supposedly "imitating" black people in the Amos and Andy radio program or Jews' objecting to their being trivialized and mocked by anti-Semitic portrayals and caricatures!! Black people and Jews can't be righteously indignant at such mockery of therm, as they are, but, somehow, Native Americans who object to the mockery and trivialization of their people are, according to Danny and like-"minded" people, "just raising a big fuss over nothing". That is what the "big fuss" is about!! Wasn't it more than enough that their land was stolen from them without all this mockery being piled on top of them, too, adding insult to injury?!! Danny is in favor of his own people's humiliation, which is even worse for him than for a white man's humiliating and mocking them, because he is conservative and, therefore, always on the side of the status quo and keeping things just as they are, even when they are against his own people, but that makes him the equivalent of Jews who collaborated with the Nazis during W.W.II in occupied countries!! Why shouldn't Native Americans be against Andrew Jackson, since he was so very much against them during his "presidency" (and was a precursor of our current non-president Trumpelstiltskin!) They don't even accept $20 bills as payments for anything when they can avoid it because they have Jackson's picture on them, but will insist on two $10 bills or trade them in themselves. So, if they don't like even a picture of Andrew Jackson on a $20 bill, why would they tolerate an entire statue commemorating that S.O.B. in a park or outside a state house or our nation's capitol? We have enough history books telling us about these people, so that we will remember the lessons of history and not repeat the same mistakes---to the extent that we can avoid them, without honoring and commemorating Confederate generals, racists, incompetent "presidents", and other such idiots, just because some of them may have said or done a good thing, here or there, occasionally!! So did Hitler and we don't put up with statues of him for his admirers here, who think that he was "a great statesman" and that his pitiful few halfway "good" deeds "make up for all the evil that he caused"---when they even admit that he did anything wrong!! Why not, if we don't believe in getting rid of any commemoration of such people?!! Why did we blow up the swastika on the Reichstag at the end of W.W.II if we don't believe that any people's bad history should continue to be commemorated? Why did we do that to Germany, but then turn right around and not follow suit in our own country by keeping these statues of Confederates, racists, and idiots standing? Why did we pull down the statue of Saddam Hussein in Baghdad and not follow suit in our own country by pulling down our own staues of rotten people? If that is a crime in this assbackwards country, then standing up for what is right is a crime and only doing what is WRONG!! is "being a good American"!! I'm also 1/8th Cherokee, from my paternal grandmother's being half Cherokee, and I stand with the rest of the Cherokees and other Nations, and against "Chief Full of Bull Danny" and say that these mockeries of Native American names by schools, teams, and chewing tobacco are WRONG!!!
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John D. Partin
Correction: Why did we blow up the swastika on the Reichstag at the end of W.W.II if we believe that people's bad history should continue to be commemorated, as is done for our Confederate and other statues here?
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Rev. Barry
I feel that all Confederate statues should be in museums. Just as there are still Nazi memorabilia Kept in some museums
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Daniel Gray
Awww whats wrong Johnny boy, mad because fact and reality are slapping you upside the head? There are already 500 people who are facing charges according to Barr on GMA today. or are you going to call him a liar now? Seems thats all you do when reality kicks you in the lower section.
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John D. Partin
Little Baby Danny, "A.G." Barr abused his authority by trying to prosecute (actually persecute!!) those 500 people because they objected to statues of traitors to this country and racists being commemorated and honored and tried to take them down. If Barr or you and your ilk were actually patriots and loved this country, you wouldn't be condemning or prosecuting those who destroy Confederate traitor monuments or monuments of incompetent "presidents", such as Andrew Jackson, but out there helping the protesters to tear them down!!! So, Barr and all of you show yourselves to be anti-American and haters of this country!! When are you ever going to face that reality and stop lying to yourselves and everybody else around you?!! And when are you going to answer the points in my previous post to you here and stop being so cowardly and evasive all the time?!!!
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Daniel Gray
Didnt abuse anything child. These attorneys work for Barr and the President and either one of them have the constitutional right to demand their resignations, or are you now going to call the SCOTUS liars because they sure are calling you that. And there is no such thing as trying child, it has started as there are four of them facing federal felony charges which will either land them in prison for 20 years or be facing a 250,000 fine. The Statues do not belong to the ones who tried to tear them down, they belong to the whole country and if they wanted there is a legal way for them to get the statues removed but they didnt want to go that route so now they are going to pay for it. And I notice you have not said "boo" about the founder of the KKK (William bedford forrest) whos statue is in a state park north of memphis tenn. And the persons who kept stopping it from being removed were none other then Al Gore and his father. You really should know history before you start flapping your gums on it child.
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John D. Partin
Little Baby Danny, your calling anyone "child" is just the biggest JOKE!!! in this blog, considering your own immaturity and stupidity, as I and many others here have told you many times before!! Barr and this non-president aren't going to demand any of these attorneys' resignations working for them, no matter what the Constitution says they can do (as if they even gave a damn about the Constitution, except as a front and when they can use it for their own anti-American purposes!!), since those attorneys are abusing (that is the correct term!!!) their authority and are doing the will of Barr and Trumpelstiltskin by rounding up people who object to statues of traitors to this country and racists' being honored and commemorated!!! I don't need to specifically mention Nathan Bedford Forrest (not William Bedford Forrest; get your facts and names straight and know history right yourself before you start flapping your gums on it, CHILD!!!!!, or lecture me or anyone else about it when you don't even know what in the HELL!!!!! that you are talking about!!!) when I have already condemned statues of Confederate traitors to this country and racists because he is included among them and there are far too many of those IDIOTS!!! to name them all!! If Al Gore and his father stopped the statue of that traitor from being removed, it can only be blamed on their having false and mistaken loyalties to their Southern heritage and letting sentiment get in the way of their sound judgment, otherwise, or they most certainly wouldn't have done so. Those reasons are what have kept all these GD statues standing and from being torn down, as should rightfully be done, since they defame and besmirch the character of this great country in the eyes of the world!!! If statues of Adolf Hitler were suddenly to start going up all around this country because his followers "think" that he was "a great man and statesman", you can bet people wouldn't wait for some Sheriff or Barr or anyone else to tell them that it was alright to tear those statues down because they are an affront to decency and public morals and would have them torn down before they could even get halfway put up and tear down the people erecting them at the same time, since they are offensive, too!!!! And these statues of Confederate traitors and racists are every bit as offensive as statues of Hitler would be!!! You can honor and commemorate whatever you want and they can honor and commemorate whatever they want, as long as all of you keep it to yourselves and in your own backyards and homes, the same as you insist that people not shove their heroes and ideas down your throats!!; but when you put that crap in front of people whom it offends, they have every right to tear that garbage down, until you learn to keep it to yourselves!!!! Those statues most certainly do belong to those whom they are offending, the same as a white racist spouting his hatred of black people in their neighborhood now belongs to those people----to do with as they please!!
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Daniel Gray
Still mad because you were proved wrong and a parrot of lies I see.
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John D. Partin
DG, I have belabored the obvious about what you are in calling you by that name long enough, since we all know the truth about you!!! Here is the proof that you are WRONG!!! from your own Native Americans and history and that you are a parrot of white racist lies about your own people and a TRAITOR!!! to all of them and to this country!!! 1. You prefer a murderer and someone who ordered genocide to be committed against Native Americans, namely Andrew Jackson, over your own Cherokee Nation and the Wolf Clan and other Native American Nations by supporting the keeping of his statue standing and arguing against tearing it down!! Andrew Jackson: the Father of Genocide of the South and Eastern Tribes (www.indiancountrytoday.com/archive/andrew-jackson-the-father-of-genocide-of-the-south-and-eastern-tribes-HW7MTDBwi0y-FjbiSrJPzg). 2. The Confederacy was treason against this country and an attempt to split it up, just so that they could continue buying, selling, and degrading black human beings. As such, it deserves no statues or commemorations!! Your being against the tearing down of Confederate statues is your siding with TRAITORS!!! and RACISTS!!!! over your own country!!! 3. The President of Oglala Sioux Nation Julian Bear Runner and other tribal leaders and Native Americans have called the 4th of July celebrations at Mount Rushmore and those faces carved there desecrations of Native American land and a sacred site. Your going along with your non-president Trumpelstiltskin, who is a TRAITOR!!!! to this country, in his celebrations there is proof of your being a TRAITOR!!! to the Cherokee Nation and all other Native American Nations!!! You won't admit any of this to be true, since you never admit the truth about yourself or anything else, but it is still true!!!
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Daniel Gray
whats wrong Johnny? mad because you have yet to disprove anything I have said and it just ticks you off that you cant? But hey keep on as the thunder you hear is people laughing AT you, not with you
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John D. Partin
DG, it is really a waste of my time talking with you because you are always childishly non-responsive and evasive to any points that I bring up in my posts to you, since you have no intelligent replies EVER!! to make about any of them!!! It is YOU!!!, not me, that people in this blog and the rest of the world are laughing at because I have read their comments about you here and that they called you "baby" and "immature" first, before I did!! Why are you a TRAITOR!!! to your own claimed people, as my post to you above proves that you are?!!! You will never answer that question or the points in my post, of course, because you are too afraid to do so, since it would blow your position out of the water, but just know that we are all on to you and the games that you hide behind and play in here!!!
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Daniel Gray
Sorry Johnny but wrong again. All you need do is ask the Chief of the Cherokee nation and you will be told the exact same thing as I told you. But you wont do that as to do that would destroy you and your rants. And sorry yet again as not only am I a member of the Wolf Clan of the Cherokee Nation, but I am listed as such on the records of the Bureau of Indian Affairs in DC and I can trace my family clear back to the Dawes Roll (look it up child). You are just mad because every time you post something you get corrected due to the fact that its filled with lies and made up myths. But please do continue as you are doing far more damage to yourself and your reputation then anything anyone else could do even if they wanted to
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John P Maher
SO YOUR THE GUY BEEN STEALING FROM THE NATIVE AMERICANs ALL THESE YEARS and YEARS !
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Daniel Gray
How can I be stealing anything when I AM Native American?
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T Kosse`
These are the only Wolf Clan of the Cherokee Nation listed any where in North America, I have checked List of federally recognized tribes by state, List of unrecognized tribes in the United States, List of First Nations peoples in Canada and List of Alaska Native tribal entities
The only Wolf Clan of the Cherokee Nation are listed in the List of unrecognized tribes in the United States
Unrecognized tribes in the United States are organizations of people who claim to be historically, culturally, and/or genetically related to historic Native American Indian tribes but who are not officially recognized as Indigenous nations by the United States federal government, by individual states, or by recognized Indigenous nations. The following groups claim to be of Native American, American Indian, or Métis heritage by ethnicity, but have no federal recognition through the United States Department of the Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs Office of Federal Acknowledgment (OFA), United States Department of the Interior Office of the Solicitor (SOL), and are not recognized by any state government in the United States nor by any recognized Indigenous nations.
Alabama
Wolf Creek Cherokee Tribe, Inc. of Florida. Also in Florida
Florida
Wolf Creek Cherokee Tribe, Inc. of Florida. Also in Alabama.
Kentucky
Black Wolf Clan of SE Cherokee Council, Inc
Virginia
Wolf Creek Cherokee Tribe, 501(c)(3) in Henrico County, Virginia
Wolf Creek Cherokee Indian Tribe of Virginia. Failed bill introduced to Virginia for state-recognition 1/19/2015
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Daniel Gray
Sure...you try and tell that to the Tribal Council of the Cherokee nation and you will be lucky if they dont throw you off the Rez buy the seat of your pants liar.
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Anisahoni
The NCAI has released their statement on Washington's "retiring" of the racist mascot name. We real Native People are celebrating today! Finally after 24 years of protests by our activists. NCAI Statement on Washington Football Team's Retirement of R-word Mascot:
WASHINGTON, DC | "Today is a day for all Native people to celebrate. We thank the generations of tribal nations, leaders, and activists who worked for decades to make this day possible. We commend the Washington NFL team for eliminating a brand that disrespected, demeaned, and stereotyped all Native people, and we call on all other sports teams and corporate brands to retire all caricatures of Native people that they use as their mascots. We are not mascots -- we are Native people, citizens of more than 500 tribal nations who have stood strong for millennia and overcome countless challenges to reach this pivotal moment in time when we can help transform America into the just, equitable, and compassionate country our children deserve."
NCAI is the oldest, largest, and most representative national organization serving American Indian and Alaska Native tribal nations and their citizens, and has been leading Indian Country’s movement to eradicate offensive Native “themed” mascots from sports and popular culture for more than 50 years.
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Lumina
People are evil. God created us all of the same without racism. Democrats are just turning people against each other. They want a New World Order that is all connected to the freemasons. They want to turn this country communist. We need to stand up and protect America. I think President Trump is doing a fantastic job. But of course CNN has nothing but fake news about him. Everyone needs to stop drinking their dam kool l Aid and take their blindfolds off.
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John P Maher
PEOPLE are NOT BORN EVIL, THEY are TAUGHT EVIL and SPITE and HATE,OR YOU WERE BORN WITH ALL YOUR FLAWS ???
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Rev. Jonathan Peebles
I understand however the other guys held slaves and tortured them while Jesus was peaceful and all about love. So yeah I see a bit of a difference
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Lionheart
Yes, but Jesus never denounced slavery even when he had a chance to do so during his sermon on the mount. His dad, God, condoned slavery, so should churches be pulled down? I think not, but who knows the minds of millennials nowadays?
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, Jesus did oppose slavery by saying "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" and "Love your neighbor as yourself", thereby logically implying that if you wouldn't want to be a slave and wouldn't consider that to be love of yourself, then don't make anyone else a slave. He gave people credit for being able to put two and two together to come up with four and to connect the dots, but, sadly, overestimated many people's ability to do so. Also, God didn't condone slavery, but men putting their own words into God's mouth, the same as they made Him "condemn homosexuality", made God "condone slavery". If you believe that God condones slavery just because they wrote him that way, then you have to buy into all the other ideas, words, and actions that have merely been attributed to him, and I have some excellent Florida real estate and a bridge that I would like to interest you in buying!!
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T Kosse`
There isn't any one single chapter and verse that explicitly that condemn slavery in any of the Old or the 300,000 to 400,000 different versions of New Testament bible. When it comes to both tacit support and outright endorsement then try: these 30+ Bible Verses About Slavery (continue because of limit of 5000 words)
Ephesians 6:5-9 5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free. 9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.
Deuteronomy 15:12-18 12 If any of your people—Hebrew men or women—sell themselves to you and serve you six years, in the seventh year you must let them go free. 13 And when you release them, do not send them away empty-handed. 14 Supply them liberally from your flock, your threshing floor and your winepress. Give to them as the LORD your God has blessed you. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the LORD your God redeemed you. That is why I give you this command today. 16 But if your servant says to you, “I do not want to leave you,” because he loves you and your family and is well off with you, 17 then take an awl and push it through his earlobe into the door, and he will become your servant for life. Do the same for your female servant. 18 Do not consider it a hardship to set your servant free, because their service to you these six years has been worth twice as much as that of a hired hand. And the LORD your God will bless you in everything you do.
Exodus 21 1 “These are the laws you are to set before them: 2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free. 5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life. 7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
So, by that T Kosse, maybe it's not slavery that's wrong, but who and what we enslave. We could try enslaving primates, but they might someday revolt, and turn this world intoThe Planet Of The Apes. Then we'll pay off our Karmic debt caused by disobeying the Golden rule by enslaving others, in future incarnations. It will all be balanced in the end. As above, so below.
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T Kosse`
Who know they still might Carl Bernard Elfstrom. Since we as human aren't really doing a great job of taking care of this planet that we live on.
I watched that movie -Planet of the Apes a (1968 film) Directed by Franklin J. Schaffner It stars Charlton Heston, Roddy McDowall, kim Hunter, Maurice Evans, James Whitmore, James Daly and Linda Harrison. I even put together and painted the plastic model dioramas kits of the different Planet of the Apes Characters when I was a Child.
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John D. Partin
T Kosse, the Bible writers' putting their words into God's mouth and passing them off as "the Word of God" explain all the veraes that you have cited here commanding or approving of slavery, as I wrote to Lionheart in my post to him above. "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you", "Inasmuch as you have done it unto the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me", and "Love your neighbor as yourself" are 3 verses in the New Testament that condemn slavery and so there are some verses in the Bible that condemn that. "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy" is another verse that condemns slavery, if you and others don't need everything to be explicitly stated and spelled out for you and can connect the dots and figure some things out for yourselves! There is no need to endlessly belabor this subject and cite innumerable verses in the Bible put there by men that command or approve of slavery, which aren't the actual word of God. The proof has just been put in front of you in those 4 verses that I cited that God doesn't approve of or command slavery. If you still refuse to accept that, that's all on you and just what you choose to believe, not what God (which is Love!!) actually says!!
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Lionheart
I guess Luke, Timothy, and Peter didn’t get the email from Jesus that god had changed his mind. They never denounced slavery when they commented and gave instructions on it.
So I guess it’s: Blessed are the merciful with the exception of Luke, Timothy, and Peter who never got the message.
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John D. Partin
God never had to change his mind about slavery's being wrong because he never said that it was "right" for a change of mind to be necessary. That was merely attributed to him. If you don't have a problem with doubting that words and actions that have merely been attributed to celebrities in the pages of the National Enquirer and other tabloids actually were said and done by them without any verification of that, why would you be so gullible and credulous as to believe that someone in the Bible's merely attributing words or actions to God means that "must have been said and done by him"?!! Again, I have a bridge and some prime Florida real estate that I would like to interest you in buying because if you'll believe that whatever anyone says that God said or did in rhe Bible, "he must actually have said and done", you would fall for anything and are ripe for being plucked!! The evidence, again, that God didn't command or approve of slavery is that God is love and slavery isn't consistent with love!! Luke, Timothy, and Peter didn't get it right all the time about what Jesus was saying and he expected them, the same as us, to be able to figure out from "Love your neighbor as yourself" and "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" that slavery is wrong and to connect the dots and not need everything to be spelled out for them, and they, quite often or even usually, weren't able to do that or follow what he was saying. Jesus even said to Peter: "You are thinking as men think, not as God thinks. The devil is speaking through you. Get thee behind me, Satan!". So, Luke, Timothy, and Peter's not getting it and never denouncing slavery and giving instructions on it are irrelevant, since they didn't get a lot of what Jesus said to them and approved of wrong things and they weren't the founders of the religion, anyway.
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Lionheart
You are beyond hope John. It's your god that said slaves can be beaten as long as they don't die in the first two days. If that's not condoning slavery I don't know what is. As for your god being all love, I'm sure that didn't go down well with the parents of those children he killed due to his anger with Pharaoh Good luck in your further interpretations of your religion to satisfy your own beliefs in your faith and your mythical god.
🦁♥️
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John D. Partin
Lionheart, did you hear God say that slaves can be beaten as long as they don't die in the first two days with your own ears and were you an eyewitness to his saying that or are you, in fact, just taking the Bible writers word for it that he said that? I'm very certain that it is the latter because I don't believe that you are 5,000 years old and even if you are, I'm even more certain that you have never been face to face with God to hear him say anything. If it is "sensible", according to you, to just take the Bible writers' word for it about "what God has said", anymore than taking anyone's word for it what anyone else has said, let's just forget about discernment and verification concerning anything and descend hook, line, and sinker into gullibility, victimization, and insanity!!! You are taking the Bible writers' word for it that he made that statement, the same as Fundamentalists believe everything that those writers say that God said or did. So, you are the one here who is beyond hope and as gullible and unquestioning about Bible statements as those Fundamentalists are and think, as they do, that God must be what they say he is and have done and said what they say he did just because they wrote him that way!! It's even worse for you because you don't even believe that the God of the Bible is real, but only an entirely fictional character, whereas they claim that he is real----and this "entirely fictional character can only be one way and have said and done only these specific things just because of how he was written", according to you. I know that the Hulk, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Paul Bunyan, Pecos Bill, and other imaginary beings aren't real, the same as you think that "God isn't real", and so wouldn't say that they could only be one way or have said or done only certain things and no other things, since they aren't real, but could be and say and do whatever their writers want them to be and say and do. Just write them another way. But you dogmatically insist, along with the Fundamentalists, that "God said this" or "God said that" or "God did this, that or the other thing" just because he was written that way!! It makes no sense whatsoever!! God didn't condone slavery, but the men who made him say that and wrote him that way did condone slavery and knew that people weren't just going to take their word for it that slavery was "okay" and so they had to get "divine sanction" for their views, in order to make people accept them, and so put God on their laps like a big ventriloquist's dummy and made him say and approve of and condone whatever they wanted!! God is all love and never was angry with Pharaoh or killed his or anyone's children, but the truth that God is Love isn't very useful to those who want to just use "God" for their own agenda, propaganda, mind control, and persecution of people and as their "spokesman" and "mouthpiece", and so they don't write him that way and prefer not to talk about or concentrate on that!! We don't have to go back to Biblical times to see that happening because homophobes and racists are using "God" for their own agenda today!! The Pharaoh and parents whose children died should have been angry at that fictional "God" that they had been told "killed their children in a plague" (which was just another pandemic, such as the one that we have now and which God isn't putting on anyone, either), but that "God" isn't the actual God. God is Love. That doesn't require theology at all because even atheists can still believe in love. The Bible "God" is largely mythical, as we agreed on before, because he was written that way, but the reality behind that myth and in the Universe isn't mythical and that reality, occasionally, comes out even in the Bible, despite their best efforts not to have it do so!!
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Lumina
I feel sorry for you when GOD the most powerful being will judge you.
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John D. Partin
Lauren Irene Milian-Combs, what is God going to condemn me for doing? For denying that he said that slaves can be beaten as long as they don't die in the first two days? For saying that many Bible writers put their own prejudices and words into God's mouth, in order to get them more readily accepted by other people? Or is he, in fact, going to thank me and reward me for removing that stain from his advertised character and say "Well done, my good and faithful servant!!" and for telling the truth about him? What, specifically, are you saying that he will "condemn" me for?
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T Kosse`
John D. Partin I know that you are a good, kind, compassionate, person and not one to use the bible as a tool to condemn or to persecute another person. Unfortunately the Bible as it is written is often vague and contradictory and too open to interpretation by others, who will use the bible as a tool to condemn and persecute another person. In fairness, there are millions of modern day Christians like yourself who don’t accept a literal interpretation of the Bible and are prepared to read between the historical lines to draw their spiritual guidance and inspiration. On the other hand there are still millions more conservative Christians who view every word as the absolute truth, particularly those who subscribe to a creationist view – like the Australian born preacher Ken Ham who runs the Creationist Museum in Kentucky, believes the world is only 6,000 years old and that dinosaurs roamed during the Old Testament (Hey, I fact checked the Bible and couldn’t find one mention of a Stegosaurus). Perhaps the Bible could do with a bit of updating and revision and some contemporary input from some of today’s more enlightened religious scholars. Needless to say, history and religion go hand in hand when it comes to repeating themselves – ad nauseam!
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T Kosse`
John D. Partin you wrote "the Bible writers' putting their words into God's mouth and passing them off as "the Word of God" So the Bible as it is written, which is it? Is the Bible the word of man or is the Bible the word of God. It either one or the other it can't be both and still be considered a Holy Scripture.
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John D. Partin
T Kosse, part of the Bible is the Word of God and part of it is the words of men and so it can be both and has always been that way. What is truly Love in the Bible is from God and what is hate or other than love in the Bible is from man. Bible writers knew that readers of the Bible would think as you do and accept everything, indiscriminatrly, in the Bible as "coming from God" and so they could get their own prejudices and other ideas accepted by these people as "the Word of God" just by putting those words down in the Bible. It is naive and undiscerning of you and other people not to see that and we are supposed to be discerning and not gullible even in reading the Bible. "Believe not every spirit, but test the spirits to see if they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world". Many false prophets and words have gone into the Bible, too, and so we should test those words as well and not accept everything there indiscriminately and foolishly as "coming from God".
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T Kosse`
That exactly my whole point that the Bible as it is written is often vague, contradictory and too open to interpretation by others, who will use the bible as a tool to condemn and persecute another person. Everyone interpret the bible however they choose, including you.
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The Rev. William C, Millhouse
I personally think that this over reactive wave has gotten way out of control
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
It's the new norm. Get used to it. Spirits walking the wind whisper, the old ways are gone, yet they must begin again, or life on Earth will not go on. He came like a thief in the night, without anyone expecting it. It's called the apocalypse. The age of Aquarius is upon us; the age of Satan is here. Listen to Nostradamus by Judas Priest, in its entirety. Many truths await us, but don't expect the path to be clear cut, and straight forward.
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T Kosse`
There isn't any one single chapter and verse that explicitly that condemn slavery in any of the Old or the 300,000 to 400,000 different versions of New Testament bible. When it comes to both tacit support and outright endorsement then try: these 30+ Bible Verses About Slavery
1 Corinthians 7:21 21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so.
1 Peter 2:16 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves.
1 Peter 2:18 18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
1 Timothy 1:10 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
1 Timothy 6:1 1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered.
Colossians 3:22 22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.
Colossians 4:1 1 Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.
Deuteronomy 23:15 15 If a slave has taken refuge with you, do not hand them over to their master.
Deuteronomy 24:7 7 If someone is caught kidnapping a fellow Israelite and treating or selling them as a slave, the kidnapper must die. You must purge the evil from among you.
Ephesians 6:5 5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
Ephesians 6:9 9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.
Exodus 21:2 2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything.
Exodus 21:7 7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do.
Exodus 21:32 32 If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull is to be stoned to death.
Galatians 3:28 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 5:1 1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
Exodus 21:16 16 “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.
Leviticus 25:39 39 “ ‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to you, do not make them work as slaves.
Luke 4:18 18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,because he has anointed meto proclaim good news to the poor.He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisonersand recovery of sight for the blind,to set the oppressed free,
Philemon 1:16 16 no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a fellow man and as a brother in the Lord.
Proverbs 22:16 16 One who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth and one who gives gifts to the rich—both come to poverty.
Titus 2:9-10 9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, 10 and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
Luke 12:47-48 47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.
Exodus 21:20-21 20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
Exodus 21:26-27 26 “An owner who hits a male or female slave in the eye and destroys it must let the slave go free to compensate for the eye. 27 And an owner who knocks out the tooth of a male or female slave must let the slave go free to compensate for the tooth.
Deuteronomy 23:15-16 15 If a slave has taken refuge with you, do not hand them over to their master. 16 Let them live among you wherever they like and in whatever town they choose. Do not oppress them.
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Lumina
Iam so proud of you God Bless You
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Albert A Hernandez
EXCELLENT!
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T Kosse`
There isn't any one single chapter and verse that explicitly that condemn slavery in any of the Old or the 300,000 to 400,000 different versions of New Testament bible. When it comes to both tacit support and outright endorsement then try: these 30+ Bible Verses About Slavery (continue because of limit of 5000 words)
1 Timothy 6:1-2 1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare of their slaves. These are the things you are to teach and insist on.
Leviticus 25:44-46 44 “ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Exodus 21:7-11 7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.
Exodus 21:2-6 2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free. 5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.
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Minister Mike
Well said, T Kosse` !!👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
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Larry Scott
A simple fact in my opinion It is not the politican, activists, or minority to determine the validity of religion or symbols that they disagree with. Its the faithful and community of that religion to decide. As granted by the first amendment. I am both disappointed and ashamed of those in religious positions who won't take a stand and voice their objections fiercely defending their religion and community. Its everyones right to voice independently within and out of the community of any religion but not the right to impose their will without the communities consent This how Nazis and communism approached things in this last century. A whole lot of good innocent people and children died with these approaches simply because censorship and rights for all were controlled by the mob, media and then government I know that many will say otherwise but we can have our cake and it too if we don't act like radicals wanting to burn everything down but act like a community to work everyone's issues. God k owns we all have a few we should work out. Just all my opinion of course but do we need a revolution or a community resolution?
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Donald James Brown
Remember we are not fighting flesh and blood we are fighting the devil. Satan comes to steal kill and destroy and he's doing a great job of it. We must remember as Christians who we're fighting against. It's not white black brown yellow or whatever it's the devil so keep your suit of armor on and fight! Remember we've already won the battle so pray for your country! 💥💕
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Frank Saint
Anyone who know Christ also knows 'Jesus' wouldn't really care if statues and stuff were torn down. But tearing down one another is the real problem.
If love for God and love for others are not leading our speech and actions, it's a lie--albeit popular one--to call it Christian.
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Nancy Cassandra Pratt
Amen!
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Delphine S. Pillar
Yes, Europeans culturally co-opted Jesus and made him white, he was a Middle Eastern Jew, but to destroy precious and beautiful artwork is wrong. Come on, just educate people and put up a few black Jesus along with him. This kind of cultural destruction has been going on way too long, from the dawn of history. We don't have to destroy things to change them, we can educate, advocate, show up when it's needed. But wholesale destruction is a sin, art is beautiful and represents the spirit of humankind. Just teach the children who Jesus really was and what he stood for and it wasn't current mainstream Christianity the way it is practiced now. ritual without spirit is dead, there is no meat in what is taught now or spirit.
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Nancy Cassandra Pratt
uh, no!
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Delphine S. Pillar
Your reply, says nothing. Zero, you want to make sense here? I suppose people would destroy Micheal Angelo's artworks because the Jesus looks white. Priceless art because of a cultural flaw. There are ways to address discrimination without destruction. It is one thing to have a statue of a known slave owner, but totally another to destroy statues of Jesus. If you want to answer me, please make some kind of effort at an intelligent conversation. Thanks and God bless.
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Gerald Gene Duggins
Jesus was a Jew, not a European and not Black. The Democratic (Demon-cratic) party kicked God from the party on television at their National Convention while the Muslim terrorist took over and they are trying to take over the U.S.A. I honestly believe that we are facing the coming of another cleansing of the earth and that God will step in and give direction. We as a nation have been losing contact with God and it needs to be fixed. I just prey that we as a people have the nerve to stand up to these satin driven evils.
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Frederick Richard Sneathern
Mary the mother of Jesus Mary was a first-century Galilean Hebrew woman of Nazareth, the wife of Joseph, and the mother of Jesus, according to the canonical gospels, Christian bible and the Quran.. The gospels of Matthew and Luke in the New Testament and the Quran describe Mary as a virgin. In Matthew and Luke she is betrothed to Joseph. According to Christian theology she conceived Jesus through the Holy Spirit while still a virgin Jesus was Hebrew and spoke Aramaic. had olive skin, black hair and brown eyes. Which is common to the area of Nazareth. Nazareth is the largest city in the Northern District of Israel. Nazareth is known as "the Arab capital of Israel". The inhabitants are predominantly Arab citizens of Israel, of whom 69% are Muslim and 30.9% Christian.
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William Breiannis
They are correct - images of a white Jesus and Mary (peace be upon them both) are certainly part of the psychological influence of white supremacy.
When the Judeo-Christian doctrine is that man was taught in the image of God and that image is understood and taught as a physical image, and then the god/son of god/partner of god/one third of a triune god - and his mother are white - then the white man is the image of god and the white woman is the image of the mother of god. That is, they are both, beauty and perfection.
What that also means is the further you are away from that the further you are from god’s image and hence, the less beautiful and perfect you are.
This imagery has been used to justify racism here and around the world for centuries. Add to that, blackness is described by these same people as the mark of the curse of God upon the son of Noah. And so, white equals beauty and perfection and black equals cursed.
These are teachings found in synagogues and churches around the world.
Add to that, the Bible commands that there be no images - but the iconoclastic battles of the biblical commands were lost in the churches long ago. I personally would like to see all idols removed period - but that’s just me.
Having said all of that, and despite that, it is up to a religious community Whether or not to remove the idols from their temples, community centers, schools, offices, homes and persons.
We have a role to educate people but we do not have the right In this nation to dictate to others how they manifest their religious beliefs...as long as it neither violates the law or the rights of other human beings.
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Frederick Richard Sneathern
Our christian church does not have any statues or idols. Never did. We opted back in 1875 to spend that money feeding the hungry and still do today.
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Thomas William Cornfield
Really make Jesus the scapgoat for these POS. Heck you can get a poll of how many people have been envolved.I cant find a amount but I will guess the amount around 5 to 6 thousand over the last 3 months . There are around 330 million in our country. and only half of the protesters want to hurt the image of Jesus. I would like the lord god almighty to help give pause on the total reaction of these nut cases .. In the long run they will pay for their deeds along with That Hungrian Nazi Soros who fund these dememenstrators, and I lived through the 60's when demistrators groups where hugh .<?> PRAISE THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY CREATOR AND DISTROYER OF ALL THINGS IN THIS UNIVERSE AND THE hELL WITH THESE POS WHO ATTACKS CHRISTANITY
Minister Thomas
and PS Please I don't care about replys to me because it's like talking to a wall it doesnt hear or see a thing. and I dont check the box about getting emails of replies lol Lord Bless your ways
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
Jesus IS white...Yashua was African/Black.
If the first people on this earth were African/Black, (by now I HOPE we all know where life started, if you aren’t there yet then you need to do some MAJOR research/reading/studying), and we were made in HIS tangible physical image then simple deduction informs you what coloring he had while in his physical form.
Other people need to deny this because of their innate centuries old hatred and racism for African/Black people.
I say who cares what happens to erroneous statues, which is old works that we’re no longer supposed to be doing anyways, like tithing. It’s a form of idolatry, like those death necklaces a lot of people are so fond of.
Let the hateful/denial filled commentary ensue...as always when truth of Africans/Black people is told.
FYI: You’ll be talking to the wind because I’ve long since learned how racists operate...especially on the internet.
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Burma Dene Dugger
I believe that communities should hold a vote. If voters want statues removed, by all means let majority rule. I feel that statues of Confederates should be moved to museums, those men were traitors. But, their stories need to be discussed so that their wrongdoings aren't repeated. I do not feel that statues of American heroes, regardless of race, should be defaced. Those persons served the Country of their times. Would they be accepted today? Probably not due to many of their views regarding race or gender. Although most of our founding Fathers were Whites who wrested the land away from the Aboriginal people's, Many of our ancestors came as slaves or indentured servants. We worked hard and gained freedom. Is freedom completely equal? No, we need to continue to improve. Our family is very mixed, Black, Brown, White, Aboriginal and Asian. I do not want any of then treated as Less Than based on their appearance, body or hair type, gender or faith choice. I believe in a Brown Jesus who taught a message of love and forgiveness. He showed by His actions that he was intent on following God's rules, remember the riot that He started in the temple? The point is that we can't change history's crimes, but we can move forward treating each other fairly, with love, as equals, judging one another on character and actions. Hating groups of persons simply due to skin colorhumans is counterproductive and does nothing to improve the situation. Hate leads to the other individual shutting down. Through loving discourse and actions, minds become open. Open mindedness leads to acknowledging flaws in one's self. Acknowledgement leads to learning to change. Learning to change leads to real change in society. So yes, call them out, but please make it a teaching moment. Our purpose in living is to Glorify God and Love our fellow humans.
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Mary Catherine Small
Most of these comments are so similar to Facebook and I’ve stopped posting on Facebook. Down with BLM. ALL HUMANS MATTER. The government has caused division. The world is going to hell and we will soon be in a New World Order. No I don’t wear a mask. This has all been planned and staged to destroy the world economy. Shut your tv’s off and quit listening to mainstream media, the dictators In each of our states, take off the masks. The plandemic will disappear. You will learn to think for yourself. Wake up. Not one of us will be left because they want to destroy us , kill us off. Wearing a mask won’t help when they come for you. New reset by the World Economic Forum coming soon. Event 201 look that up. So much more. There is no going back to the lives we once lived.
The rioters need to be arrested.
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Deborah Perrin-Wooner
So Mr. King...white supremacy? Didn't go to Sweden? Wasn't white or blue-eyed? Really a lot of thought. You're talking about my freedom of religion. What gives you or anyone else the RIGHT to DESTROY things that don't belong to you. These statues are part of history, good and bad. They create discussions about what happened, etc.. We're suppose to evolve from this, not go backward because of ignorance. If you don't like this country and where it came from to now, do something constructive going in a positive direction. I'm tired of weekend warriors who jump on bandwagons.If you want to keep causing destruction and spewing garbage then move because you obviously aren't happy here.
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Carole Anne Hill
Jesus was a Jewish man and no one knows exactly what he looked like. When people start making Jesus political I find that ridiculous since he was anti-political. If we are tearing all statues down, let's just keep going and tear every single statue in existence. All people have done wrong so the one that has not done wrong, cast the first stone.
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Daniel Gray
Not that hard to see after reading your posts...
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Daniel Gray
Poor Daniel. I would like to suggest an excellent read for you. "White Rage" by Dr. Carol Anderson of Emory University. It might be a big help to calm you down. You seem so agitated at us. Maybe a soak in the tub with some lavender would help you. Blessings.
Posted by a person who claims to be Native American and yet refuses to say what clan or Nation. Guess she just dont understand
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Daniel Gray
No johnny, YOU are the waste of time. YOU take five hours and 60 paragraphs to say hello and the rest of your claptrap means nothing as it is so easy to refute. Then you get so angry when you are corrected meaning you didnt know what you were talking about in the first place. I mean for crying out loud, I have found corrections to your claims in less then 10 seconds and an internet search. maybe you should stop while you have some dignity left?
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John D. Partin
DG, here are the corrections of your statements!!! You said "William Bedford Forrest", but his name was Nathan Bedford Forrest. You say that you are a "Native American", but you don't side with Native Americans, as an actual Native American would; instead, you believe that the statue of someone who ordered the genocide of your own claimed Cherokee Nation (Andrew Jackson) and of other Native American Nations should continue to be honored and go on standing, as no actual and loyal Native American would!! You believe that mockeries of Native Americans are "okay" and "no big deal", as no true Native American would believe or say!! You don't side with Native Americans against desecraters of their land and sacred sites, as Julian Bear Runner and other Native Americans did at this "president's" celebrations at Mount Rushmore and over the faces carved there and as all true Native Americans will do!!! You are a TRAITOR!!!! to your own claimed people!!! You are so easy to refute and the whole world refutes you, even though you refuse to admit and see it!!! That is the real waste of time, for everybody about you!!! As I told you before, every post longer than "if" is too much for you to "understand", but that is your problem!!! If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen---and the blog!!! You are refuted repeatedly by other people and myself, even though you refuse to admit or see it and you still haven't answered the points in my post to you and why you are a TRAITOR!!! to your own people, if that doesn't overwhelm your pitiful "mind"!!!
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Daniel Gray
Oh really John? Then you had better go and tell the state parks of Tenn that they got the name wrong as this is what is on his tomb and on his statue. And I actually do side with the Native Americans and you had better be glad as all its going to take is a few more decisions where almost half the state of Oklahoma was given back to the native Americans and you wont have a home to go to as it will go back to its rightful owners. And as for refuting anything, child you have been refuted and proved telling myths in more threads then Carter has liver spots. And no I stop reading your posts except in sections as only a windbag takes 6 pages of words to say hello as you do. And as usual, when you have nothing to base your idiotic claims on you resort to calling names like a 3 year old child with a full nappy.
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John D. Partin
DG, the name of the founder of the KKK was Nathan Bedford Forrest---PERIOD!!! Go look it up in Wikipedia or an encyclopedia or any reliable and reputable source and that is what his name was!!!! None of them have it as "William Bedford Forrest". If the state parks of Tennessee and his tomb and his statue had had his name as "William Bedford Forrest", that would only have proved that those who put that as his name were as STUPID!!!! and UNEDUCATED!!! as you are and so, naturally, you would cite other IDIOTS!!! in order to "justify" your own IDIOCY!!!!, but they didn't do that (www.history.com/topics/reconstruction/ku-klux-klan),(www.politico.com/story/2016/12/ku-klux-klan-founded-dec-24-1865-232856), (www.thoughtco.com/the-ku-klux-klan-history-721444). Besides which, the state park in Tennessee named after him isn't called William Bedford Forrest State Park, but Nathan Bedford Forrest State Park (www.tnstateparks.com/parks/info/nathan-bedford-forrest)!!! His tomb and his statue are named Nathan Bedford Forrest (www.foxnews.com/us/confederate-general-remains-removed-memphis-park-nathan-bedford-forrest)!! So, it's been proved once again that you don't know WHAT IN THE HELL!!!! that you are talking about, as usual with you!!!! You are the WINDBAG!!!! in here, always talking a lot of obvious and easily proven LIES!!! and just FULL OF HOT AIR!!! (to put it politely!!!)!!! Catherine Ohrin-Greipp and I and many other people here have refuted you every time that you posted anything in here and the only reason why you don't think so is because you are as WRONG!!!! and confused about yourself as you are about Nathan Bedford Forrest and everything else that you say in here!!! Catherine is right about you when she says that you are an Apple (red on the outside, but white on the inside!!). I have read your own long posts in here and "taking 6 pages of words to say hello" or nothing at all!! So, you are also a HYPOCRITE!!!! for talking about my or anyone else's doing what you are doing, as I've told you before!!! I've also told you that any post in here longer than "if" would seem "too long" to you and overwhelm your puny "mind"!! If you can't stand the heat and actual responses to your posts, STAY OUT OF THE KITCHEN---AND THE BLOG!! Yours are the IDIOTIC!!!! claims in here, as I just proved about Nathan Bedford Forrest and have been proving all along!!! Telling the truth about you isn't name calling, as I have told you before, too!! You are the little baby in here with a full diaper!! It is truly a waste of my time talking to something like you because you never talk any sense or admit the truth about anything!! You don't take the side of Native Americans when you say that mocking them is "no big deal" and that it is "okay" to desecrate their land and sacred sites and that a statue of their killer and persecutor "should continue to be honored"!!! I'm not worried about not having a home to go to, even if the Native Americans took back over this country because they are different than you are, which is more proof that you are an Apple, and they would welcome me here even with only 1/8th Cherokee blood in me, unlike yourself!!
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Daniel Gray
Still mad johnny boy because of your hot air post? And that the Tenn State Historical Society has proved you wrong yet again? You really need to stop listening to CNN and MSNBC otherwise all you are going to do is post lies and myths
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John D. Partin
DG, it's www.tnstateparks.com, www.history.com, and www.thoughtco.com, not CNN or MSNBC (right here, anyway) that say that YOU!! are posting hot air and lies and myths once again!! They have proved you WRONG!! yet again, but you are too bullheaded and obnoxious to admit it and would argue with a STOP sign that it really says "go". It is a waste of time talking with you because you don't even admit that you are wrong when the evidence is put right in front of your face that you are!!! CNN and MSNBC are great and factual news outlets and you should start watching and listening to them and, maybe, you could come out some of your insane and erroneous "thinking", but probably not!!!
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John D. Partin
DG, this is all just a game with you and you don't seriously believe anything that you are saying in here, but only want to irritate and aggravate other people with these stupid opinions that you spout in here and say that we "have been proved wrong" when you really know that it is you who has been proved wrong. Play all the games with yourself that you want, as you will anyway, but you know as well as I and all of us do that I have destroyed you with my previous long post to you, as I have been destroying you all along, and that I will continue to destroy you every time that you post in here!!!
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Daniel Gray
No it seems to be a game with you because you just cant accept the truth. I mean good Lord why would anyone listen to someone who has more hot air in them then the goodyear blimp and takes 6 paragraphs to say hello? Not to mention you have been proved wrong 99.9% of the tiem
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John D. Partin
DG, as usual with you, you are transferring your own actual behavior and "thinking" on to others and accusing them of what you are actually doing because it is you that is full of hot air, more than the Goodyear Blimp, and I have seen your own long posts here where you take 6 paragraphs to say NOTHING!! and you are continually being proved WRONG!!! by Catherine, me, and many other people here!!! You just can't accept or admit that that it is true about yourself, but it is still true!! I have DESTROYED!! you and will go on DESTROYING!! you, as will others, every time that you post in here, which you should be used to by now!! That is why you are still mad about that!!
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Daniel Gray
as usual I am stating fact and seemingly you just cant accept that you are wrong johnny. That wont do well in life so maybe you need to change a bit?
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John D. Partin
DG, as usual with you, you are stating only your own fantasies, which, in your confusion and delusion, you mistake for "facts", as is quite obvious to everyone here, and won't ever admit that you are WRONG!!! That won't do you any good in life and so you definitely need to change quite a lot or even entirely!! Just get used to always being DESTROYED!!! in every post that you put in here and save yourself a lot of trouble!!
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Anisahoni
John, you are so right! Today is the day we real Native People celebrate. Ignore the wannabes and posers. They are just trolls NCAI Statement on Washington Football Team's Retirement of R-word Mascot
WASHINGTON, DC | "Today is a day for all Native people to celebrate. We thank the generations of tribal nations, leaders, and activists who worked for decades to make this day possible. We commend the Washington NFL team for eliminating a brand that disrespected, demeaned, and stereotyped all Native people, and we call on all other sports teams and corporate brands to retire all caricatures of Native people that they use as their mascots. We are not mascots -- we are Native people, citizens of more than 500 tribal nations who have stood strong for millennia and overcome countless challenges to reach this pivotal moment in time when we can help transform America into the just, equitable, and compassionate country our children deserve."
NCAI is the oldest, largest, and most representative national organization serving American Indian and Alaska Native tribal nations and their citizens, and has been leading Indian Country’s movement to eradicate offensive Native “themed” mascots from sports and popular culture for more than 50 years.
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Daniel Gray
Whines the person who claims to have seen blond haired and blue eyed Native Americans and is calling the head Chief of the Cherokee nation a liar. LOL I would love to see her go up to him and try and convince him she is Native American or of the lie of the blond haired blue eyed Native American. She would have her butt tossed off the Rez so fast that she would see herself entering. You listen to her myths at your peril
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John D. Partin
DG, have you personally met all the Native Americans in the country, so that you can definitively state that "there are no blonde haired and blue eyed Native Americans or Cherokees, specifically"? If you haven't met them all, then you can't honestly make that statement! When Catherine says that she has seen and met blonde haired and blue-eyed Native Americans, why don't you just believe her and stop calling her a "liar"? Here is the proof from the internet that there are such people: www.mysteriousuniverse.org/2017/10/the-mysterious-tribe-of-blue-eyed-native-americans/, www.eraoflight.com/2017/10/28/the-tribe-of-blue-eyed-native-americans/, www.mysticbanana.com/my-father-is-a-native-american-yet-i-have-blonde-hair-and-blue-eyes-real-native-americans-please-answer.html/, www.nativeheritageproject.com/2012/04/29/the-mandan/. So, there is the proof, but, as usual with you, you can't see it in front of you or accept or admit to it, even if you do, but you can't say that it wasn't shown to you, anyway.
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Daniel Gray
And have you proof that there are blond haired blue eyed Cherokee? I have been on the rez more times then I can count and have never seen one of these mythical beings. And anyone can claim they are Cherokee, but the ONLY way for them to actually BE Cherokee is either be born FROM a Cherokee male or female (girlfriend or boyfriend or marriage) or be able to trace your linage back to the Dawes Roll and be more then 1/64th Cherokee blood. Unless you can do this you can claim whatever the heck you want and it wont make a bit of difference as no Cherokee clan or Nation will recognize you.
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John D. Partin
DG, someone born from a Cherokee or other tribal woman and a white or Negro father would still qualify as a Native American, according to your requirement of a Native American's being among the two parents. That would still allow for blonde hair in their children. Barack Obama had a black father and a white mother and is still considered and considers himself black. The same for many other black people. Many Asians have Asian mothers and white or black fathers and still consider themselves Asians. So, Native Americans wouldn't necessarily have to have only Native American parents, but could be mixed and still be Native Americans. What applies to other people in the world also applies to Native Americans because they aren't that unique or different from everybody else. The Dawes Roll, as I told you before, is just the Native American version of some white people's saying that their ancestors came over on the Mayflower: something for them to be snobbish about over other people!! I'm 1/8th Cherokee myself, which is 8 times more than 1/64th, and so, by your own standard, deserving of the designation Cherokee. It doesn't matter whether the Nation or clan recognizes me as one or not!!
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Daniel Gray
Um no.....for that to happen you have to have their TRIBAL name as well as be able to trace their ancestry clear back to the Dawes Roll. Otherwise the Cherokee wont recognize you as anything but a wanna be. This comes directly FROM the Cherokee Nation Tribal Council. Try again
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John D. Partin
Um, yes...since that has already happened just from people of mixed parentage's having one Native American or Cherokee parent, even without the Cherokee Nation Tribal Council admitting that or knowing anything about it. The fact of that parentage isn't diminished or disproved by the Council's not acknowledging or knowing anything about it. They also don't know all of the 1/4th or less Cherokee bloodline people in the country, as any reasonable person already knows (which, of course leaves you out!!). None of those people need the Council's permission or recognition to be of their actual ancestry, either, and obviously aren't wannabes because of that, but only less of the bloodline. The Council, the same as every other human organization, is wrong, sometimes, and, as you already know and admitted yourself, the Dawes Roll is just the Native American version of some white people's claiming that their ancestors "came over on the Mayflower", in order to be snobbish and lord it over other people, and nobody is any less Cherokee or Native American for not being on that roll. Come on, you know that! Try again...and get it right next time!!
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John D. Partin
Catherine, thank you! I try to ignore the wannabe and Apple DG as much as I can, except when he irritates and angers me so much that I can't, as in my post to him above. I'm very happy to read that the Washington team has finally dropped their insulting and hateful mascot name, which is long overdue, and such names are unnecessary! Best wishes and take care!
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Daniel Gray
Sorry Johnny, but when fact is fact you can be upset all you want but you cant change it no matter how hard you try.
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John D. Partin
Sorry, little Danny, but when your fantasies are just fantasies, you can be upset all you want when you are proved wrong and contradicted: they still remain just your fantasies, no matter how hard or much you try to claim that they are "facts"!!
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Daniel Gray
Oh great, here we have a person whos posts and claims have more holes in them then a block of swiss cheese and when shown he is lying, the best he can do is lie yet again and hope someone believes him? Sorry Johnny but when you lie you are going to get called on it.
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John D. Partin
Oh great, here we have DG, who is constantly being proved WRONG!!! every time that he posts more of his IDIOCY!!! in here and whose posts are more full of holes than a block of Swiss cheese, but who refuses to ever admit the truth about himself or his lying statements, and when he is shown to be LYING!!!, the best that he can do is to lie even more and hope that somebody as STUPID!!! as he is will believe him!!! Sorry, little Danny, but when you lie in here, which is every time that you post (and then deflect by saying that "other people are lying"), you are going to be called on it and exposed as a LIAR!!! once again!!!
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Daniel Gray
Oh great, here we have Johhny boy who said he was done talking to me and yet here he is posting again to me, meaning his word isnt worth a bucket of warm spit. Sorry Johnny boy, but each and every time you post a LIE, I am going to call you on it. Deal with it
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John D. Partin
Oh great, here we have DG, who is still going on spouting off to me and yet expects not to be refuted and responded to back again, proving even more that he isn't realistic or rational and his word isn't worth a damn. He stops and I stop; he continues and I continue! Sorry, little Danny, but every time that you LIE!! in here, you are going to be called on it and exposed as a LIAR!! once again, and I'm not required to keep any word to a LIAR!!! Reason is useless to talk to you because you aren't smart enough to ever understand or agree with it and it's just casting pearls in front of pigs!! So, I'm just going to give you back your own words and garbage every time that you post!! Write back when you want more of it!! Deal with that!!
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Mark A. Sullivan
Jesus himself did not promote slavery or racism. He was a very loyal yet radical Jew, and some bigots might have a problem with that. That white supremacists and imperialists have used him to promote slavery is not Jesus' fault. It's an abuse that goes back to Saulof Tarsus, aka Paul, who urged his followers to obey the imperial Roman authorities, slaves to obey their masters, and wives to obey their husbands. Unlike Paul, Jesus had harsh words for the oppressors of the poor. So did his brother and successor, James the Just. James and Paul were adversaries. Paul was probably a Roman infiltrator. From the beginning, the Empire has been trying to use Jesus to its own ends, but somehow Jesus keeps escaping the trap. Further, Jesus the symbol transcends Jesus the historic person. So in addition to symbolic White Jesus, we have Middle Eastern Jesus, Black Jesus, Latino Jesus, Filipino Jesus, East Asian Jesus, even Gay Jesus and Christ the Woman. Jesus (and/or Christ) needs to continually be taken back from the "powers in high places" that continually try to kidnap and imprison him. Christ is the full potential of humanity. Jesus belongs to everyone. And the only condition to possess him/her is to give him/her away. As the story goes, the Powers tried their worst to kill Jesus... but even that did not work and the grave did not hold him. It's a good story, and the statues can remind us of that. Of what story, on the other hand, do statues of Robert E. Lee or Jefferson Davis remind us? What does the person depicted as a statue really stand for? That is the question. +Mark Aelred, Circle of the Free Spirit, markaelredcfs@aol.com
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Christian
All people born of flesh will Die. And what happens to your Soul once the burden of time tears down your body ?
REPENT ! Turn to Jesus and Live.
Bodies made of stone, bodies made of metal, bodies made of flesh ? ALL will pass away...
Will you be Ready to Face Jesus ?
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Alun Lloyd Palmer
As for Jesus, he wasn't European but he may probably have looked closer to a European than a sub-Saharan African. No, the representations are probably not accurate, but oh well. Jesus statues on Native land are another matter, and I can understand why they may not want them. As an atheist I don't think they are appropriate for government buildings either.
I believe our politicians have allowed this rioting and parading to go on long enough. It’s time to put an end to this. Our Heavenly Father has to be totally upset with us. I’m sure that some wound say What Would Jesus Do. I can’t believe he would allow this to continue and watch our nation be torn apart from these radicals. I agree with our President. If you can’t stop it I will. Just let him know and it’s time to do so. We need to act now before it’s to late and we have no country. The Democratic Party is laugh at us and we sit by and let it happen. God Bless Our United States of America and All Lives Matter
Lets face it we are a devided country. Stop blaming the Democrat's. It's both parties. We need to find the middle ground. Our country does best when we find the middle, a point of compromise. When a person takes the oath of office it is to REPRESENT ALL AMERICANS, period. The idealism of a party has or should have no bearing on how a Judge should rule. Look at the oath, "that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially". So consertives and liberals alike, take note. This is America and if you can't follow what our forefather set in motion, get out of politics. Please don't tell me you believe in the sanctity of life because you oppose abortion and yet support the death penalty, or don't think the government should give handouts like Social security, feed the needy or provide for the sick. And if you wondering I don't believe in abortion but believe in a womans right to choose and it is with careful prayer to her God. I believe in free medical though I don't have or will ever have Medicare or Medicaid and pay $27k a year for medical. I believe in Social Security and a liviable amount, I paid into it and cannot collect it, ever. And yes I am of age late 60's. I am an American, 2nd generation, not a criminal, not a politician, it's ok to have a gun for protection - not as many as you want and no assault weaponry, every person should be provided an education - we don't need ignorance - it allows people to be controlled by others. The fight between the north and the south - greed and ignorance and no not all northerners are right or southerners wrong. Evil is just that, evil, and it takes many forms. We need to teach the truth about our history as a country and remember not to allow it to ever happen again. A person elected to government to serve its citizens is for a period not lifetime or we risk dictator, king, queen and not what they our forefather's fought. It was clear to Washington then and it should be clear now, let them that serve for a period, return back to their profession, job or trade. May we all be enlightened by God, or your Higher Power guided by the Spirit and the love of one another. Be kind to each other. Peace, Brother David
I liked your statement. We are too divided and that is the fault of how the political parties act encouraging the division. The people rioting today do not care about history. BLM has now shown itself for what it is, a hate group. BLM original message is lost. Now for example I do not care about BLM. Do they understand there is more crime/murder of black on black than white on black? Do they care that they actually commit more crimes and that's why the prison population does not reflect the outside environment? They have more uneducated people, more on welfare and then they want something for nothing from the government that others who work for a living and pay taxes pay for. As far as I'm concerned BLM organization is out of touch and is doing more harm than not. As to the statues, they were not alive when the cycle war happened and neither were their grandparents, great grandparent to there great-great grandparents. A lot of them were not born or were babies when the civil rights movement happened. They can all go to hell.
You continue to show your ignorance in a manner which seems as if you are proud of it. All this data you seem to think explains your opinions. As a person who is paid to play with data I suggest you ask yourself some questions. Such as: 1. Why are black people "less" educated? 2. Why do black people make less income? 3. Why do black people have higher incidents of crime? Don't take guesses at these answers. You seem bad at it. Look up actual data to see if you can determine what is really at play. I know you won't. It just felt good to type what you will ignore.
Why don't you enlighten us with the answers to your three questions? And while you're at it, perhaps you can justify the re-writing of history taking place by those "woke" individuals. None of the subjects of these statues were perfect. They were all human, sinners not saints. Historically they must've done something, or stood for an ideal, that was worthy of being remembered. MLK was certainly no saint, but I don't hear any hue and cry to remove his statues, or remove his name from streets. The past is just that..It cannot be changed, or removed because you don't agree with it, or it doesn't line up with your feelings about it. It happened. End of story.
Yes, if it were the requirement that all people who have statues made of them had to be perfect and saints, no statues would be made at all. Commemoration and statues are made for people who have done far more good than they have done bad and made the world a little better place. MLK wasn't perfect, but made the world a better place. Abraham Lincoln wasn't perfect, but made the world a better place. And so on for those who are truly deserving of statues in their honor. What did the Confederate generals or Andrew Jackson do to deserve statues to honor them? Nothing!! They only fought for a treasonous cauae to split up the country, so that they could maintain slavery of black people, or genocided Native Americans. That doesn't deserve commemoration! No doubt, as human beings, they had some good and fine points, but, again, the wrongs and evil that they did outnumbered their good points and deeds and we don't honor people who just did a few good things here and there, out of a majority of bad and wrong things. Hitler liked dogs and children and brought Germany out of the Great Depression and, if you didn't oppose him or the Nazis, was good enough to most Germans. Mussolini made the trains run on time. They don't deserve statues or honor because of that, anymore than these Confederate generals or Andrew Jackson do!!
Brother David, You brought up some great points. I believe schools should improve and begin telling the truth about American history. And it was a state that sided with the Union who tore down Grant's statue. Were they too uneducated to realize he fought for the North too? Education is in a terrible state in this country. The teachers are lazy, because they get paid so little, and not respected at all.
Guess you have forgotten the radicals involved in the Boston Tea Party? Now they were radicals, same with the southern Confederates who were treasonous. It is about time these statues come down. History of the US has been white washed to make some feel good about the horrors committed on our land. You founding fathers are not our founding fathers.
Oh the irony, ..people who know nothing about history using it to justify their erroneous positions. :-/
Oh! And if "You founding fathers are not our founding fathers." is true then this must not be your country...luckily you are always free to leave. ;-)
History is exactly what you are lacking. If you knew about real history, you would've never posted that ridiculous comment. The greatest sleeping giant in the history of mankind is something called "The Truth", and I can't wait until these truths are completely revealed to the entire world. The same exact thing that's been happening in our world for thousands of years is exactly what happened in Exodus in the Bible, and read very closely as to what happened to the oppressors. Don't mention history, or post anything referencing history if you know nothing about history. Another truth is that this country was stolen from the rightful people who can actually claim this country to be their's. So luckily YOU are always free to leave. There is a shift here in America and all around the world, and I hope it means that the time has finally come for all the hidden truths to be revealed. Keep watching because we're coming, and there's nothing you or anyone else can do about it. DESTINY!
HEAR YE, HEAR YE, HEAR YE, JAMES ASHE I BELIEVE to BE EXTREMELY CORRECT and I MAY ADD WITHOUT EXTREME PREJUDICE, BRAVO !!!
I invite you to return to the country of YOUR ancestors. This is my homeland, invader. You are only an immigrant. You be gone.
Why don't we put all those statues together in one big orgy, with a statue of Jesus leading the way, since the world has been screwed ever since the beginning of Christianity.
Sorry but no, Atheists and Humanists have killed more people then any religion has. And I bet that if you asked someone from China how their atheist controlled government is working for them, I would bet you would get a much different response then your beliefs.
Please, attempt to prove what you just said. We wait for the evidence.
Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Hitler just these four men have murdered well over 2 billion people.
Mao killed over 30 million that he admits to, and these are not counting the forced labor camps and the re-education camps where he sent "enemies of the state" and where they died. Even the UN says that number would bring the total close to 1.2 billion people. mao killed 45 million during the great leap foreword, thus being the largest mass murderer in human history
Pol Pot, was charged with the murder of over 200 million people and he admitted to the fact that he personally ordered the murder of at least 2 million
Hitler. Murdered 6 million Jews, over 30 million others who were gays-seniors-crippled-etc. Total amount according to the World Court in the Hauge for Hitler and the Nazis was close to 500 million when you add in all the Americans and Russians and British and French and so on that he ordered killed.
And Stalin...ahh here's the rub. He murdered or killed (from his purges to his labor camps) almost half of the entire population of the Soviet Union at that time.
You cant refute history or historical fact
I have to agree with you on this one Daniel Gray
read the post below you, and there is your proof
Hey, Carl, per the other comments above re. history, we can either agree with Napoleon - "History is a pack of lies agreed upon," rendering it mostly useless or at best a tool of those who created their version of it - or we can look through history for the lessons we can learn, for the repetitive patterns that emerge, and the way things we don't prefer lead us in surprising and often unpredictable ways to things we come to see as "better" or blessings.
In the spirit of deeper understanding of 'history' both recent and ancient, let me offer two things I've recently come across you might find interesting.
Ancient: I just finished a book by Tom Holland (who appears to be neither a Christian nor of any other particular religious persuasion) called Dominion. A historian, documentary maker, and author of high quality, it was an eye opening look at the history of what has come to called Christianity. Tom describes the impact, warts and all, of how a disgraced rabbi, murdered as less than a common criminal, became the unassuming "leader" of a revolution that has in fact transformed the world. Whether for better or worse depends on the moment in time in which we focus, or perhaps the topic under scrutiny.
Recent: Oliver Stone, noted filmmaker, has completed a collaborative effort with others in his industry to produce a series called, "The Untold History of the United States, covering mostly the 'modern' era beginning just prior to World War I. Even as an amateur history geek, I found a lot of information about the US, our role in world politics, and how we got from where we started to where we are now I had not seen presented in the way Stone laid it out. Excellent watch and worth the time (Netflix is where I found it).
History and the people in it are complicated, as someone observed above. I agree. Reactionary policy, that has lead to most of the wars in our history and the things about which we are most embarrassed and ashamed now, are predictable because they are easy. What's not easy is being able to take a breath, look at what's really going on below the surface, and calling out the Lies - no matter whose they are.
Blessings to you and yours.
I would not hesitate to remove Confederate statues, as the leaders of the Confederacy and of its armies were fighting to preserve slavery, regardless of what anyone says to the contrary. Most of them were erected later by segregationists anyway. I feel the same about some but not all missionaries, at least those who aggresively pushed religion.
After that you get into shades of grey. Very few people are all good or all bad, today or in the past.