A postal worker refusing to deliver on Sundays
The First Amendment protects freedom of religion. How far do those protections extend, though?

Should religious employees be required to work on the sabbath?

The Supreme Court is preparing to make a key ruling that could answer this question – and fundamentally change workplaces forever. 

Meet Gerald Groff, a U.S. Postal Service worker who is suing the government agency for forcing him to deliver packages on Sundays.

Groff, a devout Christian, has been working a postman for over 20 years. As part of a USPS contract with Amazon, postal workers are required to deliver packages on Sundays. 

Groff requested an accommodation for his schedule, asking that he be allowed to take Sundays off. However, the Postal Service denied his request, and Groff was forced to continue working on Sundays.

He faced disciplinary action for refusing to show up for work, and eventually, Groff claims, he was forced out of his job. 

“I’m put into a situation where I have to choose to honor my earthly authority or do what I know is right to honor God,” he explained. “I have to choose God.”

Now, Groff’s case will go to the Supreme Court, where it will decide whether the Postal Service was wrong not to accommodate his religious beliefs. 

Are Sundays For Prayer, Or Parcels?

The First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees that individuals are free to practice their faith without fear of persecution or discrimination. How far do those protections extend, though?

Groff says that his faith teaches that Sunday is for rest and worship – a day when no labor should be performed so that all of one’s energies can be put toward honoring God.  

“Sunday’s a day where we get together and almost taste heaven,” he says. “We come together as believers. We celebrate who we are, together. We worship God. And so to be asked to deliver Amazon parcels and give all that up, it’s just really kind of sad.”

Groff's case has raised important questions about religious freedom in the workplace. On the one hand, employers have the right to expect their employees to fulfill their job responsibilities. 

On the other hand, employees also have the right to practice their religion without interference from their employers. The question is, how should the law balance these competing interests?

Critics Speak Up

Not everyone is pleased with the idea of workplace legal protections in the workplace greatly expanding. 

Among those voicing opposition to Groff’s claim is Rachel Laser, the president of Americans United for Separation of Church and State. She calls the case “a wolf in sheep’s clothing.”

“Our civil rights laws rightly require religious accommodations for workers, which is especially important for religious minorities whose rights and customs might not be respected in the workplace,” Laser says. 

“But religious freedom does not mean we can shift the burden of practicing our faith onto other people. Religious freedom has never been a license to harm others, in employment or any other facet of life.”

Accommodating Religion at Work

The issue of religious accommodations in the workplace is not a new one. The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) has long recognized that employers have a duty to reasonably accommodate their employees' religious beliefs, practices, and observances, as long as doing so does not impose an undue hardship on the employer. 

This means that if an employee's religious beliefs conflict with a job requirement, the employer must make reasonable accommodations to enable the employee to practice their religion.

In Groff's case, the Postal Service argued that it could not accommodate his request to take Sundays off because it would cause an undue hardship on the agency. 

The Postal Service claimed that Sunday is a busy day for package delivery, and that accommodating Groff's request would require them to hire additional workers or redistribute the workload among other employees, which would be costly and inefficient.

Groff, however, argues that this claim is unfounded. He insists that there are other employees who would be willing to work on Sundays, and that the Postal Service could simply redistribute the workload among these workers. 

He also points out that the Postal Service already provides accommodations for other employees who have medical or disability-related issues, and that his request for a religious accommodation should be treated no differently.

Faith and the Future of Work

The Supreme Court heard recently arguments on the case, and a decision is expected in the coming months. The direction it goes could have massive implications for workers and employers across the United States. 

Employers obviously have a responsibility to respect their employees' religious beliefs and practices, but does that mean Christian workers should never have to report to work on Sundays? 

Then there is the issue of other religions – should Jewish people be exempt from working Saturdays? 

And here’s a question: what if a new religion formed that determined its holy day was Fridays? 

If the Supreme Court decides to provide substantial protections for religious workers on their holy days, one could envision a scenario where this new religion quickly becomes the fastest growing faith. 

What do you make of the issue? How far should religious accommodations extend in the workplace?

211 comments

  1. Rev. Kev's Avatar Rev. Kev

    I can start a new church: the Church of Perpetual Ease. The Easetarians.

    Our faith requires strict observance on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. The whole day. Sleeping in is encouraged. No work is allowed, unless it's to get a cold brew from the fridge or convenient cooler. Driving is only allowed if going to a beach, lake, park, or other restive area conducive to relaxing. Stopping along the way (going to or back) at a drive-through for food is allowed. Otherwise, the faithful adherent orders delivery.

    Obviously, this requires diligent preparation during the week leading to the Holy Days. Ensuring a proper supply of brew and snacks (and non-alcoholic beverages for the kiddies and those who choose to abstain). Foods that don't require any cooking or much prep to make and eat. Things like pre-made subs stored in the fridge are ideal. And no cell phones! Phones and other irritating electronics must stay off. We have intensive unwinding to do!

    1. Amy Minckler's Avatar Amy Minckler

      Where do I sign up? Are there any specific rituals, aside from what you have stated, that must be followed? Can I cook foods on thrusday in prep for the the rigors of Fri-Sun?

      1. Rev. Kev's Avatar Rev. Kev

        Cooking foods on Thursday is totally fine. Other rituals are taking one or more Sacred Naps on the Holy Days (Friday thru Sunday). No specified time or duration is required. But a nap is essential for proper Easing.

        Then there is the Sacred Snack. This is best set on Sunday as a way to close out the Holy Days (but can be any day). Basically, chips or any favorite snack food with a cold brew (brand of choice). For those who don't imbibe alcohol or for the kiddies, alcohol-free brew or Root Beer (regular or diet...or other flavor if someone hates Root Beer). There's no real trifling with details like what brand or what type. That's way too exhausting and gets in the way or relaxing, which is the important Holy Commandment (Thou Shalt Relax). The Sacred Snack is a great way to accent one's favorite sports game or movie. Also a great family ritual to bring everyone together in a relaxed atmosphere.

      2. Rev. Kev's Avatar Rev. Kev

        Signing up is easy. Simply vow (aloud or silently, alone or with whoever wants to join in, as well)) to follow the Holy Commandment (Thou Shalt Relax) and to follow the Sacred Traditions: 1) Observe the Holy Days by relaxing, 2) The Sacred Nap, and 3) The Sacred Snack.

        Then do the things. The doing of the things is the most important. Don't just talk the Ease. Do the Ease.

        There are no tithes. No fees. No oppressive hierarchy. As the founder of the Church of Perpetual Ease I bear the title of Grand Poobah of Relax. But that's really it. No bowing or scraping. No vestments or funny hats (unless someone likes wearing funny hats).

      3. Susan Colmenares's Avatar Susan Colmenares

        I’ll join too!

    2. Rev “D”'s Avatar Rev “D”

      Excellent! Party in Rev Kev! I am in!

  1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

    it's very simple, you get a job, you work the hours and the days you're told to. any of you self-righteous mofo's ever hear the phrase, "...render unto caesar what is caesar's..."? simply put, if caesar says you work on sunday, you work on sunday. YOUR goD knows that you have to do it and is NOT going to punish you for it. you have rendered unto caesar as dictated. don't try and blame caesar for YOUR failings. you can make up that silly sabbath on another day.

    the point was to TAKE A DAY OFF FROM YOUR LABORS AND WORSHIP YOUR goD. do you really think your goD has an actual sunday through saturday calendar and sunday is in red and marked 'sabbath'? or was the 'seventh day' a metaphor for working six straight and using the seventh to appease your psycho-sociopathic alien diety? crust chins need to lighten A LOT!

    1. David Cox's Avatar David Cox

      Rev. Dr. Father JJ you don't know much about the bible sound like when Satan tried to quote it...all wrong bending truth as always the spirit behind you is recognized...and you don't even know it....turn to the living God before it's to late

      1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

        david cox how dare you attempt to chastise me for my beliefs. you are proof positive what is wrong with x tians. stop telling people that only your beliefs are valid and true, you are such a shining (and embarrassing) example of what it means to be a x tian.

        plus, david cox, please find an adult to review what you want to say because as it, your writing is nearly incomprehensible, your comment - the one I am replying to - is gibberish and makes no sense.

        Ave Satanas

        1. David Ashton Watts's Avatar David Ashton Watts

          I thought this place was for tolerant people. Why are there so many of you here with the purpose of being hateful to people of faith?

          1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

            david watts

            you have your extra-large, glaucoma blinkers on I see (pun intended). first think all x tians do when they feel they aren't getting the proper respect they 'think' they should be getting, is to throw the 'martyr' card...why's everyone always pickin on me?'

            it's funny that you manage to accuse me of being intolerant when the comments i make are towards people like you that are expressing your intolerant views of people who don't believe as you

            something something something throw the first rock

          2. Dr. Zerpersande, NSC's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande, NSC

            Sorry, what made you believe as you do? Is that a condition for receiving the plastic badge that makes you a reverend?

            1. David Ashton Watts's Avatar David Ashton Watts

              How much did you pay for that plastic “Dr.” label?

            2. David Ashton Watts's Avatar David Ashton Watts

              Comment removed by user.

      2. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

        There a living god? Any demonstrable evidence of that, David?

        🦁❤️

        1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

          I can provide ample proof God is Dead or never existed. The evidence is overwhelming.

      3. ChiBama's Avatar ChiBama

        I agree...if your faith and belief doesn't allow your soul to work on Sundays. Find a job that does. It is a choice. You knew the position include Sunday why apply for the job. People sue for the wrong reason...this is living proof that we should be mindful of what or where we seek.

  1. David Arthur Lewis's Avatar David Arthur Lewis

    As a customer of the USPS, I find Sunday deliveries really annoying. It would be nice to have one day of respite.

    1. Rev “D”'s Avatar Rev “D”

      Then stop ordering from Amazon, as USPS is only delivering Amazon on Sundays! See how easy to end being annoyed by those pesky people that dare disturb your respite.

  1. Najah P Tamargo's Avatar Najah P Tamargo

    Not trying to sound like a smarty pants, but I live in Florida and we DO NOT get mail delivery on Sunday's. Not in the 30 some odd years I've lived here. But, I have worked in companies in other areas and Jewish believers aren't mandated to work on their designated holidays. Same with other religions, accommodations are made. My Dad was raised Seventh Day Adventist and their holy day is Saturday. So nobody worked on Saturday's. I can't see why this man should be persecuted or bothered just because he is following his faith.

    1. Rev. Kev's Avatar Rev. Kev

      I also live in FL (Melbourne). I've gotten Sunday deliveries. Doesn't happen often, but it has happened. And I've seen postal trucks on the road on Sundays.

      Just sayin'

      1. Amy Varela's Avatar Amy Varela

        The mail moves all the time, but typically, Sundays is not regular mail delivery.

        1. Susan Colmenares's Avatar Susan Colmenares

          I received Amazon packages on Sundays in Vero Beach.

          1. Najah P Tamargo's Avatar Najah P Tamargo

            I have lived in Dade County and Pinellas County. I have never received regular mail on Sundays. Yes, the private companies like UPS, Amazon, DHL. etc., do deliver on Sundays, but I have yet to see anything from USPS. Maybe I should move to another county!

    2. David Ashton Watts's Avatar David Ashton Watts

      Agreed. In Maine USPS workers are now working on Sundays for Amazon. But why is it that we hate the idea of a Christian asking to not work on their holy day but have no problem allowing other religions their day? There are plenty of atheists who can work on Sundays and would gladly use that time to worship their god the almighty dollar by working for time and a half. Why is there so much hate on this site for Christians? Isn’t the entire focus of the ULC tolerance? That’s why I came here. I seem to regret that choice.

    3. Charles Leroy Good II's Avatar Charles Leroy Good II

      Comment removed by user.

    4. Diane Minna LaFave's Avatar Diane Minna LaFave

      I agree.

    5. David Ashton Watts's Avatar David Ashton Watts

      Agreed. In Maine USPS workers are now working on Sundays for Amazon. But why is it that we hate the idea of a Christian asking to not work on their holy day but have no problem allowing other religions their day? There are plenty of atheists who can work on Sundays and would gladly use that time to worship their god the almighty dollar by working for time and a half. Why is there so much hate on this site for Christians? Isn’t the entire focus of the ULC tolerance? That’s why I came here. I seem to regret that choice.

      1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

        d a watts

        if you want to discuss tolerance look at your own words!

        you defend x tians for not wanting to work on a sunday by stating that atheists can work on sunday WHILE WORSHIPING THEIR GOD...THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR.

        How stunningly ignorant of you assuming because someone has professes no belief in your or any god that they must instead be worshiping the almighty dollar.

        do you see how you have just insulted everyone who is an atheist/does not believe in supernatural crap (like you do) . I have no doubt whatsoever that you feel the same (insulting) way towards those that, while believing in a god, is not your god so you probably insult them as well.

        and you and j w kasper wonder why intolerance rears it's head here in ULC. it's because people like me lash out at people like you who stroll in here as if you own the place and your religion is the only one worth having.

        hypocrites the lot of you

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          No sir, that would be you. You do know that the SCOTUS has ruled that Humanism and Atheism are BOTH religions, right? Even the US Military has had to put in Atheist and Humanist "pastors"...(and yea I know there is a very strange choice of words right there) As of March 2017, the Department of Defense recognizes 221 belief and faith groups, including the nonreligious designations such as agnostic, atheist, humanist, no preference and no religion.

          So JJ, it seems that you just did exactly what you tried to claim someone else did. So I guess the Hypocrite is you.

      2. Joseph Walter Kasper's Avatar Joseph Walter Kasper

        I'll comment elsewhere on the Sabbath, but I wish to reply to your lament. I too, find the very earthly comments painfully disturbing, enough that I rarely read articles posted here. Rarer still to read comments or reply. Expressing these harsh thoughts are bio-chemically rewarding and addicting . . . so temptingly delicious. As addictions go, increased doses are required over time. That's the internal side. On the outside it's only ego-tripping. Don't let it affect you. Come here by choice. As to the "Christian nature" of ULC, it is an Universal nature. Encompassing ALL of our varied beliefs. Yours, mine and ours together. Too bad nobody seems to get it. ULC tolerance? That's what's taught. Practice is a personal choice. Don't regret it. Have compassion for the lost and shine your light high, and see the light of others. That should be why we chose ministry. In whatever form. Blessings be.

    6. pjm's Avatar pjm

      It has already been established that Constitutional law does not allow for a person to have an automatic day off from work on any day that the person recognizes as their "Sabbath." Why? Because that would entail the government "establishing" a religious practice. Employees need to follow the same rules and guidelines that others do in their workplace. They are not obligated to take a job that they know will conflict with their religious beliefs.

      Before I retired, I was a hotel General Manger. Hotels, like so many other business and services, are open 24/7. Which meant that I, along with all my employees, had to work when needed on Sundays same as other days of the week (although I tried to accommodate them as much as possible; e.g., giving church-goers an evening shift on Sunday). What if your house caught on fire on a Sunday and the firemen said it was against their religion to put it out. Or your house was being robbed and the police weren't available for the same reason. Or what if you happened to have a heart attack on a Sunday and the cardiologist said sorry, it's against my religion to work today. Should airlines, busses, trains, be required by law to give their drivers/pilots the day off on their Sabbath? How about the air traffic controllers? Or heck, even military personnel - who all work directly for the government. Do you honestly think that they should not have to work on their Sabbath?

      How about your minister/pastor? Do they preach on your Sabbath? Jesus specifically addressed this issue 14 times in the Gospels when the hypocrites accused him of healing on the Sabbath and he put them in their place for trying to misapply old Mosaic laws.

      1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

        Sorry PJM, but Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employment discrimination based on religion. This includes refusing to accommodate an employee's sincerely held religious beliefs or practices. Meaning that if a 7th day Adventist or Jewish person would need saturday off, the employer is required to make every available way to allow them to have this day off, and just saying "I cant spare you so you have to work" is not acceptable. This was passed first by the SCOTUS and then it was made into law by the US Congress as is required by the Constitution

  1. Maximillian Martin's Avatar Maximillian Martin

    Yes they should have to work!! Don't like that? Go work for Hobby Lobby or some place like that!!

    1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 says you dont know what you are talking about

      1. Maximillian Martin's Avatar Maximillian Martin

        Then I can take any and all observances of Satanic, Luciferian, or other practices I choose with no penalty of any kind if I want. It has to be equal in every way

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Again yes. As long as you have a recognized religion and it has more then one building with a congregation and services and so on.

          Oh and by the way, the SCOTUS already ruled that Humanism/Atheism are religions and the US Military even has "churches/Pastors" for these two religions, not to mention symbols on the tombstones for same.

          1. Maximillian Martin's Avatar Maximillian Martin

            That's not good enough. Many satanists and Luciferians are solitary practitioners. There are no formal buildings or "congregations". Many are not recognized by the government either but the constitution doesn't state that any of that is necessary for free practice of your religion. And I'm NOT talking about humanism or atheism.

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              yes it is good enough. You want to be recognized then you follow the rules otherwise you are SOL.

              1. Maximillian Martin's Avatar Maximillian Martin

                Where does it state that in the constitution? It doesn't! Recognition is not required for the free practice of any religion. They would have a major lawsuit on them if they tried

              2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                And it states that right next to your mythical separation of church and state.

              3. Maximillian Martin's Avatar Maximillian Martin

                Mythical? This country isn't a theocracy or so called christian nation!! There is NO established religion that governs it. So there is CLEAR separation of church and state. If you want to live where religion and government come together, move to the middle east where your pathetic religions came from!!

              4. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                In YOUR opinion. The Constitution was ratified to be the supreme law of the land in 1787, the very FIRST mention of this myth was 15 years later in 1802 in a freaking letter! The Constitution clearly states that if you want to add to it or subtract from it then you need a constitutional amendment, and this has never happened so your opinion means squat.

              5. Maximillian Martin's Avatar Maximillian Martin

                No, not my opinion, it's fact!! This country doesn't and never has had an established religion. As I said, it's not and never has been a theocracy. And that's a fact.

              6. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                never said it was, but sadly for you every one of the founding fathers except for two were religious. And almost every law they made and put into the Constitution has a religious background.

              7. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                if you want the benefits, then you play by the rules. Sorry but your reply makes no sense.

              8. Maximillian Martin's Avatar Maximillian Martin

                Wrong again. My statement, not opinion, makes perfect sense. What doesn't make sense is you saying what you just did. If you want the benefits then you play by the rules?? So the only way I could have my constitutionally guaranteed rights to FREEDOM of religion would be to accept conversion to one of your established religions? That's completely unconstitutional in every sense!!

              9. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                wrong yet again, I thought you migt be playing at being this ignorant of the US Government but it seems that you are not playing at all. You then drop into hyperbole when you make the claim that you have to convert, never said that and never will. All I said was if you want your religion to be recognized so you can get your "day off to worship" then you have to go by the rules the Government has set up. You want to take a day off, then get it authorized by your employer. If not then you cant complain, but I will bet that you will anyway.

  1. Dr. Zerpersande, NSC's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande, NSC

    In short, yes, just like any other worker. You can’t have the government not charging taxes on churches to maintain a separation of church and state, then ask the same government for special conditions. Of course if I were doing the hiring I’d like religious applicants to ask up front. It would make it easy for me to avoid future issues.

    1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      There is NO Separation of Church and State. The Constitution was ratified in 1787 and the very FIRST mention of this myth was in 1802 in a letter. After the Constitution was ratified the ONLY way for this to be in the constitution is by a constitutional amendment and I have checked the Library of Congress and the Congressional Archives and nowhere in either of them is there ANY mention of a constitutional amendment.

      And no sorry the SCOTUS just cant make this up out of thin air as Article 3 of the Constitution (powers of the Judiciary) does not and never has given them the ability to interpret anything and they dont have the Constitutional authority to grant themselves this power/authority. Now if you want to claim different then please feel free to show what section of Article 3 allows this and when and where the Amendment was brought up and passed and what president signed it to make this myth of Separation of Church and state become part of the Constitution. I wont hold my breath waiting as you cant do it.

    2. David Ashton Watts's Avatar David Ashton Watts

      We didn’t have the USPS contracting with that behemoth Amazon 20 years ago when this man was hired. It is our “I expect what I want today” attitude of society that has forced the change in this person’s job. Once again greed of the consumer and greed of government agencies has created this situation. There are six other days of the week to work. Why can’t we accommodate if any person needs a regular day off? We move basketball games to accommodate students who aren’t allowed to play from sun down on Friday. I remember when there were blue laws and no businesses were open on Sundays. I’d doesn’t “harm” anyone to wait a day for anything being delivered by Amazon. But again, we’re simply talking an accommodation, not wholesale change. And it should only apply for those who show deeply held religious beliefs. Not every angry satan worshipper who wants to deny this man his rights.

      1. Dr. Zerpersande, NSC's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande, NSC

        I didn’t say that workers shouldn’t have days off. But doing it collectively for reasons related to Bronze Age goat herders version of cosmological origins is silly.

        BTW, I think that satan worshippers are as delusional as those for jehovah.

        1. David Ashton Watts's Avatar David Ashton Watts

          Or as delusional as modern age humanists

  1. Alun Lloyd Palmer's Avatar Alun Lloyd Palmer

    The problem here is that, as an atheist, I would be likely to get stuck working on other people's religious holidays all the time. The further problem with that is that a lot of social activities happen on Friday and Saturday nights, and AFAIK the Jewish Sabbath takes in both, on its strictest form. The only apparent solution is to invent, or falsely claim, a religion.

    1. Rev. Kev's Avatar Rev. Kev

      Looks like you could use the Easetarians. 😄

  1. Katelynne Shouse's Avatar Katelynne Shouse

    Y E P !!!

    1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      NOPE. Seems you ignore the federal law that says even an employer cannot force you to work on your religious days as per Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which is federal law, and not just your opinion

      1. Rev. Mike Eggleston's Avatar Rev. Mike Eggleston

        Great, are Odinists also allowed to take Wednesday (Odin's day) off?

        1. Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson's Avatar Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson

          Actually, as a Heathen of near 4 decades, have seen no restrictions in our practices that enjoin us to take any day off as Holy.

          1. Rev. Mike Eggleston's Avatar Rev. Mike Eggleston

            There's a first time for everything.

            1. Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson's Avatar Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson

              But, it would not be me, just like I would not ask for a spurious "Beard Accommodation."

        2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Sure. get your church to be recognized and then show where you have worship services and a congregation and so on and yea, you should be able to have that day off.

  1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

    what happens when that person shows up at a baseball game later on, or goes to a movie, or the beach? Isn't this more like, I need two hours off wednesdays morning to take my grandmother to the doctors? if this guy, or anyone, claims they can't work at all on sunday then had better be spending 8 hours honoring their goD in church or home because otherwise it's less religious freedom and more like insurance/workman's comp fraud.

  1. Susan Colmenares's Avatar Susan Colmenares

    I don’t think we have enough information. Was making Sunday deliveries part of his original work agreement? I don’t think so. Twenty years ago we did not receive parcels on Sunday. However, shall we exclude Jews from working on Saturday? Muslims from Friday? We are a diverse, pluralistic society. Should we and can we accommodate everyone?

    1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      Nope it was not. this never happened until they started working with Amazon. And since I see these Amazon Prime trucks all over the place 7 days a week, why does the Post Office need to deliver the packages for them?

    2. David Ashton Watts's Avatar David Ashton Watts

      That’s just it. Yes, we do accommodate all others. So why not a Christian? Just shows the hate in our society.

  1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

    Was not an issue in the past when Christians DID deliver the mail on Sundays. They protested in 1850 they were told mail would no longer be delivered on Sundays due to the invention of the telegraph 1844.

    Seems like Christians change their mind about everything. The Earth was at the center of the Universe until atheists provided proof it wasn't. Christians could own slave until atheist convinced Christians otherwise. Christians believed God created the heavens and the Earth until atheists provided evidence God got it wrong and there is no heaven and the universe had to be created before Earth. And it was atheists who provided proof God did not create the creatures on the Earth it was evolution. See a pattern here? Christians just seem to get it wrong every time.

    1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      Stop lying Douglas the USPS NEVER delivered mail on sundays till recently. The post master did keep the post office open on Sundays so citizens from neighboring towns could come in and collect their mail but it was never delivered. According to the USPS, Sunday deliver of mail was not started as an option till the early 1990's and even then it was only done when requested, and then it was stopped because 99% of the businesses were closed on Sunday so exactly WHO was the post person supposed to give it to? Even now sunday delivery is something that you must REQUEST as it is not something the post office does naturally. Call your own postmaster and ask. Bet you get told the same thing

      1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

        @Daniel Gray Sorry, you lose on this one. Take a look at the law President Taft signed into law ending mail delivery on Sundays. Feel free to fact check and they apologize for being wrong as usual.

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Sorry you lose on this one as the information I gave I took directly from the US Postal Service webpage. Maybe something you should have done to start with?

          1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

            @Daniel Gray Could there be more to the story than what's on the US Postal Service Web page? Did you bother to click on any of the links I provided so you can fact check? (Don't think so, if you had, you would realize are WRONG, and once again I was correct.

            Try fact checking before posting and post the link so others can fact check to see when you are lying, which appears to be with just about all of your posts.

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              So you are now desperately trying to change or imply whats on the USPS webpage somehow does not say or mean what they say it does.

              This just shows that you refuse to accept the facts that are right in front of you because they dont fit in with your flavor of the month ideals.

              1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

                @Daniel Gray In typical Christians fashion you are just providing a partial truth and not the entire story.

                I provided you a link, but as is typical with many Christians you don't bother to fact check and continue with your misguided beliefs instead of verifiable facts.

              2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                And in typical fashion, you refuse to accept what the Post office says and since they actually do the deliveries, I am thinking that I wont be challenged when asked if we should believe them or you? Hint, it isnt going to be you. But since you refuse to accept when you have been proved wrong, I would bet any amount that you will be right back here complaining and trying and failing to prove me and the post office wrong.

              3. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

                @Daniel Gray Here you go with more lies. Not what is said. Read (if you can) my posts. Never said what you claim I said. If you are a Christian why don't you follow the teaching of Jesus and the Bible?

              4. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                And just how can it be a lie Douglas when it came directly from the United State Post Office Website? Desperate much?

              5. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

                @Daniel Gray When you tell it, then it is a lie because it's only one small piece of the bigger story. Christians ALWAYS do this which makes them come across as liars.

                Are you looking at the USPS web site? Any idea when they came into existence? Try reading about the USPOD. Once you do you will realize you are not telling the truth.

    2. Colleen McAllister's Avatar Colleen McAllister

      Everything you just said is wrong. Atheists are not the ones who keep proving things "wrong". Scientists are the ones who provide the proofs needed to change scientific theories. Many scientists are not atheists. Many are Bible believers. Many are Christian.

      As to whether workers should get Sundays or other holy days off that should be settled upon hiring.

      1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

        @Colleen McAllister If you say "Everything I say is wrong" which means you are wrong because I have been correct at least once. I think you are mixed up with it comes understanding what a scientific theory is. Scientists NEVER prove theories, they only can demonstrate what is not happening.

        I would agree in the past many scientists were Christians and believed in the Bible. If you look at TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram you will find many scientists who were once Christian and believed in the Bible show how the Bible and God got things in our world wrong. There are others who show Christianity is nothing but a con and the stories in the Bible were stolen from other cultures.

        Can you provide any evidence the Bible is the word of God? I can provide proof man wrote the Bible and where the stories came from. Martin Luther exposed the church as a fraud over 500 years ago.

        What can you offer?

        1. Rev. Kev's Avatar Rev. Kev

          I gotta say, Colleen is correct in this case. Theories are explanations of the known facts or evidence as it currently exists. Theories always come with the unspoken caveat that they are subject to change with new data. So if research uncovers something new, the current theory to which it applies is altered to accommodate the new knowledge. This happens quite often. Which doesn't overturn the theory. Simply changes it to make it more in conformity to reality as we currently know and understand it.

          Not exactly sure how scientists can only demonstrate what's not happening when the scientific method involves, among other things, observation and experimentation of the things that are happening.

          And there are many scientists, past and present, in various religions who do excellent work in their respective, scientific pursuits.

          1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

            @Rev. Kev Sounds like you understand the science and the scientific method. Can you name just one experiment in science which proves something scientific?

            1. Rev. Kev's Avatar Rev. Kev

              This ----> "...name just one experiment in science which proves something scientific?"

              Makes zero sense.

              The scientific method is a process. Science doesn't 'prove something scientific.' It gathers data based on observations and research to help us learn more about our physical reality. Science also doesn't offer proofs. Only math does that. It confirms observations and data with the caveat that new data can always arise in the future to confirm, alter or clarify our current observations and theories about reality.

          2. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

            @Rev. Kev Let me clarify. When it comes to cause of climate change does science prove what's causing it? Is there an experiment we can do to do prove it? If you understand science, and it sounds like you do we do experiments not to show what's causing climate change, but to show what's not causing it. As experiments are conducted to rule out what's not causing climate change our body of knowledge increases and we have theories. As you have stated, a theory can be modified with additional information or completely discredit with new information.

            1. Rev. Kev's Avatar Rev. Kev

              Science doesn't prove anything. Only math offers proofs. But there are experiments to test ideas about what is causing it. Climate is also determined by many different factors. Climate change isn't the result of a single thing. Several systems interact with each other to create positive feedback loops.

              Simply put, someone observes something. They have an educated idea (based on education and experience) of what they are seeing and why they are seeing it. This is stated as an hypothesis. An experimental protocol is designed to confirm or falsify the single, postulated cause of the observed phenomena. If the cause turns out to be verified, the hypothesis is confirmed. If the cause turns out to be falsified, the hypothesis is discarded. All we can say at that point is that one thing is not the cause of that one, observed phenomena. We can't rule it out for anything else, or that it is ruled out as a contributing factor to climate change via some other system.

              But the purpose of the process is to find out the cause. The process weeds things out. Which is helpful. But finding out the actual causes or origins is how we know stuff is the way it is.

              Just knowing what isn't involved isn't ultimately useful to us. I don't think anyone asserts that kitten hiccups are involved. But knowing that gets us no closer to figuring out what IS involved, and how to act to mitigate future change and consequences. Unless we know what's causing it, we can't act those causes.

              1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

                @Rev. Kev I think we agree but with some subtle differences. We have math proofs in math, but when it comes to physics they are called laws. In Physics laws (mathematic equations) allow us to predict the future.

                I'm in agreement with you up until your last paragraph with kitty hiccups. But instead of kitty hiccups I would like to use earthquakes. If I told you the sun is the cause of earthquakes would think that's as crazy as kitty hiccups causing earthquakes. I know I would. Turns out there is something to the sun/earthquake hypothesis. (If you are not aware.) Evidence suggests there's a correlation between sun CMEs sending bursts of charged particles towards the earth. These charged particles interact with the crust of the earth causing earthquakes. (Or is it kitty hiccups?) If one looks at the cycle of CMEs and the earthquake period between earthquakes one can see a pattern.

                Does this prove CMEs cause earthquakes? No, but it doesn't prove it either. We need more research. Does it prove kitty hiccups cause earthquakes? No, but it is highly unlikely as there is no correlation that has been found.

                This is why I say science doesn't prove something to be true, but what is not true or where we have not found a correlation. You say we drop the hypothesis. I'm saying it's false meaning there's no relationship. The wonderful thing about science is that it's self-correcting. So should we find correlation that kitty hiccups do result in earthquakes we update the body of knowledge to reflect new/additional information.

              2. Rev. Kev's Avatar Rev. Kev

                Laws of physics are not mathematical proofs. Laws are inferences based on accepted facts.

                Not CMEs but solar proton flux resulting in a reverse piezoelectric effect. At least that's the guess. Which is only based right now on a correlation study. They'd still need to find a way to falsify and test it.

                Science is self-correcting, but I still disagree with you on your basic premise. And I think that's where we have to simply call it a day and stand unreconciled in our difference.

                Thanks for the discussion.

              3. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

                @Rev. Kev Nice discussion, thank you. I think we are pretty much saying the same thing slightly different. Probably using different definitions for the same words. Laws of physics are mathematical formulas which can be used to predicts the future that were derived from observations and experiments.

    3. David Cox's Avatar David Cox

      Douglas Robert Spindler provide the evidence then let me see.....all just opinion and talk can't provide nothing you are just a God hater

      1. Dr. Zerpersande, NSC's Avatar Dr. Zerpersande, NSC

        I don’t hate god. I just laugh at the notion that one exists.

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          But it does, but it does, in the heads of all those that want to believe it 🤭

          🦁❤️

          1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

            And in those who are deranged and those who use religion to con/scam people out of money.

      2. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

        david cox provide evidence for your god then let me see...all just opinion and talk can't provide nothing you are just a hater

        1. David Cox's Avatar David Cox

          Rev. Dr. Father JJ there is evidence all around you.........since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

          21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.... ...only a fool in his heart believes there is no God. The creator is smarter than all of us he made everything...it's obvious scientist has proven things that has happened in the bible. Mount Sinai is in Arabia things are there until this day. That Moses had made the altars. Noah's ark is on Mount Ararat.. there is a lot of proof all around you. satan has been trying to deceive people from the very beginning....he tried to seperate the church by false denominations...believe the true word of God.

          1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

            david cox

            so your proof of goD is a book written by men claiming to have proof of goD and the way you prove goD exists is by quoting a book that claims goD exists because the people that wrote it believe that goD exists and the reason they believe goD exists is because it says so in a book, written by men, trying to convince everyone around them that there is a goD and that the proof to that goD is the very book that the men wrote proving that there is a goD

            david cox

            do you understand what cognitive dissonance is? or what a tautological argument is?

            let me direct you to google the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, which will prove why the FM is true and your goD is false

            Ramen

          2. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

            @David Cox You do realize there are three books, all written by men, which all claim to be THE authoritative word of God. Bible, Quran and The Book of Mormon. So which one is correct?

            We know the Bible was written by man from the Oxyrhynchus Papyri. If you are not familiar with the Oxyrhynchus Papyri these are the early drafts of the Bible. You can see how the stories were altered and changed before making it into the Bible. We have the drafts so we know the Bible was written by man not God.

      3. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

        @David Cox, there is an abundance of evidence proving God is DEAD. Can we agree agree religion is a complete scam? Martin Luther showed us that over 500 years ago. The scam of religion has been used to control people, fleece of their money, give people false hope/promises, rapes and abuses women and children. All of those are facts are easily verifiable.

        Is there any question God is Dead? I can provide proof o that as well.

    4. David Cox's Avatar David Cox

      Douglas Robert Spindler provide the evidence then let me see.....all just opinion and talk can't provide nothing you are just a God hater

      1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

        @David Cox I most certainly can provided evidence God doesn't exist. The Bible Guaranteed on May 21, 2011 God would return. https://www.recordcourier.com/news/2011/may/19/end-of-the-world-family-radio-predicts-jesus-retur/

        Either God's guarantee is meaningless, God is Dead or God never existed.

        Need more proof God and the Bible is a con men who were not inspired by God? If you read the Bible, Quran and the Book of Mormon they all say these are the FINAL words of God and not to trust any other books claimed to be written by God. If they are all claim to be the world of God then we can't trust any of them to be the word of God. If you think the Bible IS the word of God why are all of the stories taken from other religions which are much older than Christianity. The story of Virgin Birth and reresection date back 3,000 years before Christ was born. How much more proof do you need?

        1. David Cox's Avatar David Cox

          Douglas Robert Spindler who ever said that is a liar. That is not truth the bible speaks that no one knows the time or hour that he will return. .you should read the bible you might learn of the real true God.

          1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

            And there is the very familiar cop-out. No one knows the time, or the hour, that he will return because clearly it’s not going to happen.

            It’s like the Dead Parrot sketch in Monty Python. He’s dead, deceased, expired, no more. It ain’t comin’ back. 🤭

            🦁❤️

            1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

              @David Cox How wrong you are. Christians spent $600 Million dollars telling us the Bible Guaranteed the return would be on May 21, 2011. Are you saying God and Christians are liars?

              @Lionheart Is God resting? Stunned? Dead? Or did God never exist? God sure has nice plumage. Norwegian Blue?

              1. David Cox's Avatar David Cox

                Douglas Robert Spindler and Lionheart the day that Jesus does come back you will be brought before the white throne Judgement and you will have to give an answer. Why did you refuse his son....then you will be begging Him to not throw you into eternal torment because you have rejected a great free salvation because you thought you knew more than God. But before that happens you can repent of your sins and ask for forgiveness and he can save you from this.....I hope and pray that he does save you because you don't want to go to hell...your pride needs to get out of the way....the only religion I see you two bash is Christianity.....why not other religions because of the spirit behind you is scared Satan knows his end he loses so he wants to take as many as he can....don't be fooled seek the word of God and follow those who are true to his word. Satan works in churches all over the world to try to discredit the truth and people like yall believe. The bible tells the future. Don't be a fool who believes there is no God. Stand strong and do not waver because we all know where we are going the true Christians and we want people to go to heaven with Jesus. Jesus is the way the truth and the life no one goes to the father except through him. To bad you don't know God or his word...you condemn yourselves to the torment when he paid the price for your sins...but if you still want to hang on to your sins and die in them then that's your choice......May God the father have mercy on you. God is reaching out to you through others but you reject it...you need to really think this through.

              2. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

                @David Cox I knew God and had a personal relationship with God. But now God is dead. And you don't have to take my word for it, there the evidence is overwhelming and abundant.

                What makes you think God is not dead? The Bible guaranteed restriction day was May 21, 2011 and God failed to show. What happed?

                https://www.universetoday.com/85741/world-ending-on-may-21-dont-count-on-it/

              3. David Cox's Avatar David Cox

                Douglas Robert Spindler that is not evidence...if you believe that you are dumber that I thought....the bible does not say that...who ever believes that is an idiot. Why do you believe such foolish things. Some idiot told you that and you believed it....Satan has been toying with you to turn you away from God and you know what you are letting him win. God is very much alive and there are miracles and changed lives everyday. We walk by faith and not by sight...Satan roams around like a lion seeking whom he may devour....he is having fun but we of the faith should stand strong this body may die but we will live with Jesus ...and because he took our place and took our penalty of sin we can go to heaven and live a life without sin...pain or tears.....they twist the bible to belive what they want it to satan...just like he did with eve he is a liar from the beginning he comes to steal, kill and destroy but Jesus gives life oh death where is you sting oh where is your victory. We have victory in Jesus. Matthew 24 Jesus tells us the sign to look for

              4. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

                @David Cox what do you mean that is not evidence of course it is. God and the Bible GUARANTEED us Judgement Day was May 21, 2011. Are you calling God a liar?

              5. David Cox's Avatar David Cox

                Douglas Robert Spindler..where does it say that in the bible?

              6. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

                @David Cox I will refer you to Harold Camping of Family Radio. He has a long list of all of the Bible versus in which the Bible Guarantees it. There were a lot of Christians around the world who read the Bible who also believed the Bible Guaranteed it. This is not just one person.

                I'll have to ask. If there were so many devout Christians who read the same Bible as you and they all agreed the Bible Guaranteed it, how is it you reading the same Bible doesn't. You are all alone in your beliefs.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Camping#/media/File:Judgment_Day_21_May_2011_(English).jpg

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Camping

                This is solid proof God is DEAD or never existed.

              7. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                No but he is calling YOU a liar as nowhere in the Bible does it say that, and if you think it does then name the book and chapter and verse. You wont because you CANT.

              8. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

                @Daniel Gray Already have in several other posts. You either can't read or refuse to believe what's guaranteed in the Bible. Not sure which, but God is Dead and God's guarantees are meaningless. We have the proof.

              9. David Cox's Avatar David Cox

                At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

                26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

                29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

                “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]

                30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d]

              10. David Cox's Avatar David Cox

                And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

                32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

              11. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

                @David Cox. The Bible is describing a natural event called a solar eclipse and lightning. Thanks to science we know exactly when eclipses will occur for hundreds of years. You should know that.

                How will you know the it’s the messiah when the messiah appears? The Bible tells you if someone says it’s the messiah it’s not the messiah. Just takes one person to say it’s not the messiah, and the messiah is not the messiah according to the Bible.
                Don’t you think this is why so many people are turning away from God and religion? It’s nothing but a lot of lies.

              12. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

                Oh stop it, David. Religious scare tactics, also known as religious blackmail, that are used with little children (which is mental abuse) just doesn't wash with me.

                If your god ever came before me near his white throne I would bend him over it and thrash the living daylights out of him for his brutal and mental abuse of mankind.

                The god you worship is a genocidal, infanticidal, pestilential maniac, and I'd tell him to his face, before punching him on his omnipotent nose. I'd do that, David, in honor of everyone he's killed, or had killed, throughout the history of mankind.

                May the souls of all the little children he has killed have mercy on your soul for worshipping it.

                🦁♥️

              13. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

                @David Cox How is it not evidence. It is something you can see, feel and touch. Like so many Americans I stopped believe in foolish things like God, the Bible, that Christians are good honest people sometime ago.

                Why do you call a man of God an idiot? He's reading the Bible, which is the word of God and you call him an idiot? I think he would call you an idiot for not being able to read and understand the Bible.

                Sorry no need to believe in satin when so many Christians are the evil ones rapping and molesting incent kids and women.

                Seems to me you are twisting the Bible into thinking it says what you want it to say.

                Since you quote Bible versus would you explain Ezekiel 23:20 ? Thank you

                Thank you

              14. David Cox's Avatar David Cox

                Douglas Robert Spindler The lewd image here is meant to be striking and to promote disgust at the lust of the Jews after the ways of their slavery in Egypt, as though Egypt had been the abusive lover of her adulterous youth. God’s judgment is that Egypt, “her lovers,” along with Assyria and Babylon, will turn against her. She will turn to them for support, and they will crush and oppress her as part of God’s judgment for their rebellion against him.

              15. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

                @David Cox Then why didn't God say that in the Bible? Your reply conforms the Bible is NOT the word of God but of man. These are man's poetic words to describe slavery in Egypt and not the actual events.

                Your reply just reinforces the Oxyrhynchus Papyri which are the drafts of the Bible which show man not God wrote the words in the Bible. The Oxyrhynchus Papyri show Bible versus which are different than what's in the Bible.

                It's the exact same scam Joseph Smith pulled when he translated the golden plates to the Book of Mormon. And just like the Bible, Book of Mormon and the Quran they all state they are the final word of God. (All three of them.)

                And let's not forget that we know many of the stories including virgin birth, forgiveness and restriction were taken form other religions that were around for thousands of years before the Bible or anyone every heard the name of Christ.

                I'll have to say you make an excellent argument which is supported by an enormous amount of physical evidence that the Bible is a work of fictions created by man.

                If you ever had any doubt God and religion is a complete scam, you've done it.

              16. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

                @David Cox Calling God's words in the Bible lewd is why is should be banned from libraries and considered obscene - Not to be seen or read by children. Only adults who like lewd stories.

                Thank you.

              17. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

                Comment removed by user.

      2. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

        @David Cox The proof the Bible was written by man and God does not exist comes from the broken guarantee in the Bible. According to the Bible God was guaranteed to have Judgement day on May 21, 2011. God failed to show. God is dead or never existed.

        Here's your proof. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yEcP-nmBYk&ab_channel=CNN

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          um no sorry you are delusional. Your own source clearly says SOME believers, it does not claim nor have they ever claimed that the Bible said this was going to happen.

          Nice try but major fail

          1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

            @Daniel Gray So you are calling your fellow Christians and God a lair? God and the Bible Guaranteed the Judgement Day was on May 21, 2011 and you call me delusional.

            Feel free to fact check me every time.

            https://www.universetoday.com/85741/world-ending-on-may-21-dont-count-on-it/

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              no, I am calling YOU and YOUR SOURCE a liar. The Bible has never said when the world will end and again you neglect to say this was just one sect, not Christians as a whole.

              How pitiful it must be for you to try and degrade a religion you clearly have problems with, just so you can get your jollies.

        2. David Cox's Avatar David Cox

          ,..Douglas Robert Spindler,........ It does not say that in the bible.....these people are wrong as you saw on that day. God does not say that in his word. Don't believe everything you hear. Christians like this make people like you bash God. They will be held accountable for their false accusations

          1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

            Is that what it says in that book you read, David?

            A friend if mine believes everything he reads in his book that he reads, the Book of Mormon. He’s so adamant he has the truth. 🤷🏼

            🦁❤️

  1. Rev. MichaelRS's Avatar Rev. MichaelRS

    Yes. No matter your faith, if you choose to work in the secular world in a public organization that is on the go 24/7, you need to adapt to it, not it adapt to you.

    Whether that is Christians working on Sunday or Jews working on Saturday or Buddhist who normally only eat a vegetarian diet who in the military dealing with field rations and many other examples.

  1. James Riggle-Johnson's Avatar James Riggle-Johnson

    If you are hired to do a job that requires work on Sunday's then you can't complain about it. Get another job.

  1. Allen Nace's Avatar Allen Nace

    Imagine there’s no religion! Above us only skies.

    Religion is a man made concept. It’s based on behavior modification and control of the masses. It’s a great plan and helps keep us from being ourselves, monsters. Harsh? Look at our history. We are a narcissist infection on the planet. The earth will expel us with storms, climate change, freeze us, boil us just like a human body works to get rid of infections so to does the planet. So to is working a schedule a man made concept. Do what you want.

  1. Ronaldo's Avatar Ronaldo

    I've read the Bible more than once and have never encountered a single Scripture that said that God began His Creation on Monday. Just because most people start their workweeks on Monday does not mean God did. We know from Genesis that God Created for six days and rested on the seventh, but we don't know for certain that His week didn't have eight days. The Bible doesn't say, either way.

    1. David Ashton Watts's Avatar David Ashton Watts

      No, but the Bible does say that people should get together to worship. So by denying this person the ability to join when his faith is joining, he is being denied the ability to openly practice his faith. We can’t force people to work 7 days a week. And his job changed long after he was hired. Reasonable accommodations should be made.

  1. JT of the plains's Avatar JT of the plains

    In my option, if a job requires things that are against your religious views, then it is a personal decision as to whether or not that person takes the job. I do not see why an employer is forced to accomodate any religious views. That is an undue burden on the other employees. Should a Jehovah's Witness, who does not believe in blood transfusion, be allowed to dictate to a blood bank that they cannot do their work? Should a Jewish person be allowed to dictate to a pork processing plant that they cannot make ham? Lots of other examples?

    For me, the Sabbath is very important, but it is a spiritual duty and can be adjusted to when I have time off. Romans 14:5 "Some judge one day to be better than another, while others judge all days to be alike. Let all be fully convinced in their own minds."

    So, if an employer requires certain things to be done (which are legal) it fall on the employee to decide if that is the right job, or not.

  1. Anne 'Arie's Avatar Anne 'Arie

    I think that if people accept a job they should be willing to work the days and hours specified in the job description. And I also think it's a bad idea to start making exceptions for the simple reason that there are many, many religions and all have holidays. Anyone who wants to be off for religious holidays should use their vacation time. I realize that the USA and other countries traditionally celebrate certain Christian holidays and that many Arab countries celebrate Muslim holidays with time off. But you can't pick and choose which religions are going to be recognized and which are not without causing an uproar. I think this man is wrong. If he doesn't want to work on Sunday, he should seek other employment.

    1. David Ashton Watts's Avatar David Ashton Watts

      I agree. However he accepted a job and long after that the hob description changed. So should he now be forced to do something against his strongly held belief? He accepted a hob offer under one pretense. And then the employer is the one who changed the bar, not the employee.

    2. David Ashton Watts's Avatar David Ashton Watts

      Comment removed by user.

    3. David Ashton Watts's Avatar David Ashton Watts

      Comment removed by user.

  1. Rev. Jim Sutton's Avatar Rev. Jim Sutton

    "Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964" ? ? ? Are you kidding me ! It protects against discrimination in HIRING, and has absolutely nothing to do with work hours or days. If it did, then Steven Hill, who played 'Dan Briggs' during the first season of "Mission: Impossible" (1966-67), would not have quit the series due to the producers not being happy about him taking time off to celebrate Jewish holidays and the Saturday Sabbath. As for not working on specific days, just ask to have them off as your regular days off. Maybe I was lucky, but every place I worked (except one, and I quit shortly after starting) accommodated me. If they don't, find a new job that will. Personally, I think it's a bit ridiculous taking this to court.

  1. Michael Anthony Yuhas's Avatar Michael Anthony Yuhas

    When I would interview people for a line position with the DOC, everyone applying knew they would be required to work nights, weekends, sundays and holidays. Telling us they would need a specific day of the week off would be reason to not offer them employment. If Mr. Groff has been on the job 20 years, working Sunday was not a condition of employment. No matter what the USPS says. Groff needs to be accommodated.

  1. David A. Edmond's Avatar David A. Edmond

    When Jesus was questioned about people working on the Sabbath He ask If any of you have sheep and it falls in a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out. How much more value is a man then sheep. Therefore, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. According to the Equal Opportunity Employment Employers must make resonable accomodate employees' sincerely held religious practices unless doing so would impose an undue hardship on the employer;

    I know every response to this issue can be quite sensitive and to deny someone can be costly to the employer without adequate documantation can cost the employer. The problem how do you verify the authenticity of the request? I know once word get around in certain places of employment people will use religious convictions not to work on tthe Sabbath including public safety. Maybe the only remedy is to have a policy that states specifically that the position requires the emplyee to work on Sunday's, the employee signs the policy stating and they accept working oon Sundays as a condition for employment.

  1. Patricia Ann Gross's Avatar Patricia Ann Gross

    It sounds to me like they are trying to resurrect the "blue laws." When I first moved to Texas, certain things could not be sold on Sundays, except things required to survive that potentially couldn't wait until Monday. In general that boiled down to food and medical care. It got crazy as to what was classified as each. Go into a 24X7 grocery store and there would be whole aisles roped off because you couldn't buy anthing there. You could buy food, but not a pan to cook it in or a plate to serve it on. You could buy baby formula but not a bottle. The craziest, however, you could buy a light bulb but not a lamp.

  1. Steven Frederick Gordon's Avatar Steven Frederick Gordon

    It's not a new religion, but in Islam Friday is the holy day.

  1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

    enough of this bible nonsense, instead let's all quote and abide by the Seven Fundamental Tenets of The Satanic Temple.

    THE SEVEN FUNDAMENTAL TENETS

    I One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.

    II The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.

    III One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.

    IV The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.

    V Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.

    VI People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.

    VII Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

    this has nothing to do with the devil, or satan, it has to do with removing supernatural, superstitious beliefs out of government, out of the public space and inspire people to understand that being good, and doing good has NOTHING to do with some make believe sky pilot.

    instead it has everything to do with just being a decent human being which, from what I've seen around here, is sorely lacking in many of the "ordained ministers" who are limited in both thought and logic and have swallowed the christo-fascist koolaide and aim their rhetoric and their hatred towards people they consider inferior.

    no truly good, x tian would spend so much time quoting their lame ass bible, pointing their finger and telling everyone what THEY think the bible means and what THEY think god wants. they would INSTEAD practice what their jesus instructed them to do..

    THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF

    DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE DONE UNTO YOU

    LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE...

  1. Peggy J Ventura's Avatar Peggy J Ventura

    The gentleman in question here was with the USPS for 20 years. Package delivery on Sundays is a fairly recent addition, so the arguments that this is what he signed up for are not valid. This sounds like bully management that could easily schedule more willing employees but chose to be jerks.

  1. Bishop William Dusenberry, DD's Avatar Bishop William Dusenberry, DD

    In a rational world — a world in which science had fully replaced all religious silliness, the mail would be delivered as the need be.

    In the meantime; if there are sufficient numbers of Unitarians, atheists, Humanists, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, and Secular Humanists — available, to work on Sunday’s— that should carry us through— until the science point of view takes over.

    1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 says you are wrong

      1. Bishop William Dusenberry, DD's Avatar Bishop William Dusenberry, DD

        Rev. Daniel:

        Most people tell me im wrong -- however, as a bishop in the ULC, I'm not wrong -- just because others think I'm wrong.

        Common sense tells me im right.

        That's why im a ULC Bish0p, and you're only a minister.

        You appear to let the government determine what's right and wrong for you.

        1. David Ashton Watts's Avatar David Ashton Watts

          As a “ULC Bishop”, whatever amount of money that took to purchase the title I have no idea, wouldn’t you think being tolerant is your purpose? “Religious silliness” certainly is not a good look on a “bishop”.

          1. Susan Colmenares's Avatar Susan Colmenares

            You too can be a bishop! Just lust yourself as such on the website!!!

          2. Susan Colmenares's Avatar Susan Colmenares

            You too can be a bishop! Just lust yourself as such on the website!!!

        2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          And you have been told numerous times that you are NOT a Bishop. So either you are delusional in claiming that you are something that even the ULC does not offer and has never offered, or you are just trying to inflate your ego. So which is it?

  1. Rev. Barry's Avatar Rev. Barry

    If the Job requires it,work.

  1. Alexander Arends's Avatar Alexander Arends

    This is a complex situation. If a person did not have to work Sundays for the same job function when he/she was hired, then he/she should be grandfathered in. If however this person signed up for a position knowing he/she may be required to work on their day of worship, they should be looking for another job. There are just too many religions to make a blanket statement that employers should accommodate people of all religions. It would simply be a possibility of changing or creating religions to benefit the employee.

    1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

      Things change. Mail was once delivered on Sundays until it wasn't. The Christians at the time didn't have any issue delivering on Sundays then... Why should they now?

      1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

        Sorry but it never used to be. It all started with keeping the post office open on sundays so neighboring towns could allow their citizens to come TO to post office and pick up their mail, this started in 1809 in Washington Pennsylvania. According to the US Postal Service (USPS.com) mail delivery on Sunday is a very recent thing and it is not done all the time, only by special request. So your claim has no historical accuracy

        1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

          @Daniel Gray Keep reading there is more to the story than the one factoid you posted. This is something Christians like to do. Offer one small fact from nearly 200 years ago implying that's the way it's been and that it's never changed. Typical Christian lies.

        2. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

          @Daniel Gray Once again you are incorrect. Try looking at the bill President Taft Yes in 1810, Congress passed a law requiring that local post offices be open for at least an hour on Sundays; most were open for much longer.

          Here's a picture showing mail delivery on Sundays with a car. It was the telegraph and the Labor movement that closed post offices on Sundays but this did not stop Christians for taking credit.

          https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/StateLibQld_2_102724_Newspaper_delivery_vehicle_for_the_Sunday_Mail%2C_Brisbane.jpg

          https://blogs.berkeley.edu/2012/12/06/religion-politics-and-the-sunday-mail/

          1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

            once again you try and use fake sources to back up your claims and fail miserably. I am fairly sure that the United Stated Post Office knows what their delivery rules are far better then the Atlantic magazine or berkley, or in a simpler way; why go to a plumber to ask how to do a brain surgery, why not just go to the brain surgeon. And that little tidbit just wiped the mat with your claim

            1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

              @Daniel Gray Too lazy to fact check me? Or did you fact check me and realize you were wrong as always.

              1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                I did check you, if not how would I know that berkley is a so called college in California and the Atlantic is a swiftly collapsing magazine?

            2. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

              @Daniel Gray Provide a citation that will prove me wrong. I and others have provided many proving you are wrong. Let me know if we missed any.

          2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

            And once again you are incorrect Taft was the President, at NO TIME in the history of the US has a president EVER passed a law. Nice try

            1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

              @Daniel Gray Having trouble reading and comprehending what you have read? Never made that claim, you'll have to again.

              1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                the one who is having trouble is clearly you. The US Post office has said you are not telling the truth and yet you repeat the lie over and over and over again. So who do we believe? The US Post Office who makes their own rules especially since the Post office is NOT part of the US Government and hasnt been for over 50 years...or you?

  1. skye riversong's Avatar skye riversong

    We probably can accommodate everyone. I've often worked the High Holy Days and Saturdays for my Jewish coworkers. They've worked Good Friday for me. We can all cover for one another. I went to school in one of the most religiously and culturally diverse places I've ever been, and there was no way we could cancel class for every holiday, but professors routinely excused absences and gave makeup tests to allow students to attend to religious observances. It worked fine.

    1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

      We could accommodate everyone and nothing would get done AND the costs would increase. Just depends what you want. And remember there was a time in this country when Christians DID deliver mail on Sundays and protested when it was stopped.

      1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

        Not according to the USPS Douglas and since they deliver the mail I am sure they know better then you do.

        1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

          Some Post Offices still don’t understand the 1st Amendment of allowing citizens to take photographs in public areas in public property, even though their Poster 7 allows it. 🤷🏼

          🦁❤️

  1. Clay Serenbetz's Avatar Clay Serenbetz

    My understanding is that an employer must make reasonable accommodation for strongly held religious beliefs, no matter how unreasonable the employer views such beliefs.

  1. Mary Haviland's Avatar Mary Haviland

    Nobody who has a religious reason to not work, should not be working. Would this subject even come up if they were not. Christian, if they were say Muslim and wanted to take their times of prayer off. Would the Muslims be allowed that time off to pray. If you honor other people religious preferances and if other businesses take off certain days and if your religion tell you not to work, then of course you should get that time off. This is just another way of trying to make wpipke work everyday and make them into good slaves. No days off for you. Now get back to work slave.

    1. Rev. Kev's Avatar Rev. Kev

      I've worked with Muslims. They took time off during the day to go to the back room and pray. Then came back and went back to work.

      I also worked with a Seventh Day Adventist. He had to take Friday night to Saturday evening off. Which was a pain since this was at a restaurant. Hard to accommodate on the busiest days of the week. But it was arranged before he was hired so we respected it.

  1. James M Slack's Avatar James M Slack

    To Whom All This May Concern I think it’s time we all used some common sense. I believe not to long ago the postal service was in jeopardy. As to financially stay in business. Do we want that again? I don’t think we as tax payers have that deep of pockets. I do believe everyone is entitled to a day off. I we we can go one day without mail. If it’s a bill, it can’t be credited till Monday anyway. If you were hired to work on Sunday, then so be it. But let’s not force people to work that do need a day to themselves. I’m sure others are off on Sunday.

    1. Angelic Realms's Avatar Angelic Realms

      I'm old enough to remember when the PO was closed Sat and Sun. Then I believe in the early 80's they started the PO on Sat but for like 3-4 hours. It's fine and not a big deal.

  1. Steven Santucci's Avatar Steven Santucci

    Technically Sunday is not the Sabbath Saturday is only reason why everyone says it is sunday because catholic church desided to change it and if i am not wrong that is against GOD's Laws So yes they Should it is sad that Because of the Catholic church changing things that every True faithfull Christians Break the ten commandments every week because of the Catholic church

    1. Rev. Kev's Avatar Rev. Kev

      You're right and you're wrong. Sunday isn't the Sabbath. That's true. Sunday is called The Lord's Day. Christians began meeting on Sundays long before there was a recognized Catholic Church because Jesus rose on Sunday. Same reason Pascha (Easter) is celebrated on a Sunday. Resurrection Day.

      The original believers went to synagogue on Saturday. Then met to pray, sing and share the agape meal of bread and wine on Sunday. When Christianity split from Judaism, the believers simply continued to meet on Sunday. The agape meal and their early prayers and songs became the modern liturgy and Eucharist.

      So if you have to blame someone for Christians worshipping on Sunday....I guess you can blame Jesus.

      I have no idea why you say Christians break the 10 Commandments (All of them? Every week?) because of the Catholic Church. That honestly makes no sense.

      To quote the Catechism: “Sunday is expressly distinguished from the Sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the Sabbath. In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish Sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God”

      The obligation to worship on Saturday was only binding on the Jews. Again, since Jesus rose on a Sunday it makes sense for Christians to honor that day for its significance.

      Even St. Paul says the ceremonial aspect of the old law is no longer binding on Christians:

      Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in regard to food or drink or in respect to festival, or a new moon or a Sabbath day—things which are a mere shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ (Col. 2:16-17).

      A little study of the history of your own faith might prove helpful here.

  1. Wellness Counselor's Avatar Wellness Counselor

    No. As the law rightly reflects. Employer’s must provide for religious accommodation. The Bible is pretty clear about the Sabbath. Even if that is not my belief, I will defend the death your right to observe your beliefs.

    That concept is applicable across the board and covers faiths. “because the duty owed to one’s creator is precedent, both in order of time and in degree of obligation, to he claims of civil society.”

    Aside from religion, to those who say work comes first…just wanted to say, make sure you don’t give work your life. I am not saying that work isn’t an important part of life, just that there are things more important. I remember I didn’t want to call into work when my grandpa got sick. I told myself I’m off this weekend. But, by the weekend he was not longer speaking; he passed away early Monday morning. Those few years were probably the busiest time of my life…and the last part of my grandparents. I was raising kids, going to school, and working ..trying to create a life. Life can pass you by while your busy building. Work is only a small part of life. The best parts are free anyway.

  1. Canadian Yankee's Avatar Canadian Yankee

    Accepting or applying for job, requires that one must be willing to meet the needs of the employer. If the needs of the employer are clearly stated to mean they need 7 day coverage and the employment seeker agrees to that, any reneging on the deal is fraud on the part of the job seeker. It is not a religious issue but rather a contract issue.

    1. JT of the plains's Avatar JT of the plains

      You make a good point, but what if the job requirements change after the employee is hired? That seems to be the case here.

      1. Canadian Yankee's Avatar Canadian Yankee

        LIgitimate needs of the business comes first, if nothing can be done but have the employee work so be it. However If reasonalble accomodation can be made then do it.

    2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      Wrong Canadian Yankee Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employment discrimination based on religion. This includes refusing to accommodate an employee's sincerely held religious beliefs or practices. Now if this is the only employer in town or within 50 miles, are you really going to tell someone that they have to give up their lives just to have a job? Federal Government clearly says you are wrong.

  1. Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson's Avatar Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson

    This seems a good discussion to ask a question I have.

    Does anyone know of any religion, which forbids its adherents to NOT work on Friday and Saturday, ALL DAY?

    A co-worker of mine at Lowe's got an accommodation for such.

    1. Robin Cohen's Avatar Robin Cohen

      Yes

      1. Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson's Avatar Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson

        Okay... What religion?

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          7th Day Adventist-Jewish-Sabbatarianism, just to name three.

          1. Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson's Avatar Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson

            Thank you Daniel, had not heard of Sabbatarianism before.

            I know Observant Jews, especially Orthodox, adhere to sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.

            I was not sure about 7th Day Adventists following all day for both days, or being closer to Jewish practice..

        2. Rev. Kev's Avatar Rev. Kev

          The Church of Perpetual Ease.

          Friday, Saturday and Sunday must be strictly observed as Holy Days. All day and night. Very serious stuff.

  1. Merlin's Avatar Merlin

    If they want the job. It's a Federal position. The First Amendment, which was ratified in 1791, states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

  1. Angelic Realms's Avatar Angelic Realms

    If a Muslim asked for the day off the company would fall all over themselves to make it happen. This worker should be reasonably accommodated. My Mom as a 7DA had Saturday and Tuesday off. Her caveat was a split shift she did it for about 5 years. This company surely can do the same. The hatred towards Christians here is palpable. Not very tolerant or loving nor accepting at all. Not sure being a pastor here is a good idea. Whenever I bother to read anything it's a barrage of contempt. Sad.

    1. pjm's Avatar pjm

      I'm a Christian and disagree with you.. You say you're a Christian but in your first sentence you show prejudice and contempt for others -- far from "Christian."
      Sad.

    2. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

      m souza the reason you think that is because you only see the world through your biased viewpoint that your religion is the only true, good, proper one. don't believe me, read your first sentence out loud.

      only someone who resents other religions having the same status as their would make such a bigoted comment. then factor in that people like you are always quick to comment and condemn people with, not just drastically different beliefs but even beliefs that are marginally different.

      as to your penultimate point; i have found that the hatred here for non-xtians, for muslims, for satanists, for pagans, wiccans...your ilk has no love nor respect for them. so instead of coming in here and whining about how you aren't respected (or, I suspect, 'valued') maybe be nice, respect other beliefs and stop with your bible thumping, condemnation, threats of hell fire and all that other childish, mythological nonsense. open your eyes, there's more to the world than what you choose to accept as true

      Ave Satanas

  1. Robin Cohen's Avatar Robin Cohen

    This country is for all people and all religions. Not all religions consider Sunday the sabbath? The Supreme Court, full of Christians must stay neutral on this. If this Supreme Court would vote a Christian law into our lives then this will no longer be a free America.

  1. Amy Varela's Avatar Amy Varela

    According to the First Amendment, people can believe anything they want, and Congress Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof*. Nowhere does it say that companies cannot make deliveries on Sundays. Not everyone has their "day of worship" on Sunday, either.

    • That little "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" bit needs to be expanded to include that the "free exercise thereof" extends only to the person who believes the myth, not everyone around them. In some religions, apparently, the "free exercise thereof" includes making laws that force people to follow things they do not necessarily believe.
  1. stephanny feliciano's Avatar stephanny feliciano

    I cant believe im reading this everything is good just the litte fact that sabbath is SATURDAY NOT SUNDAY This is the day the lord wants us to worship him and only do the things of the father and for the father nothing else Sunday is a pagan day where they worship the pagan sun god .

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      Yes, Saturday is the day for worshipping the pagan Christian god. 🤭

      🦁❤️

    2. Rev. Kev's Avatar Rev. Kev

      Stephanny, Jesus rose on a Sunday. The apostles met on a Sunday. St. Paul said not to judge people by what Sabbath they keep. The earliest records of the church shows they gathered on Sunday.

      If you're Jewish them sure, the Law applies to you. But Christians are not under the Law. Jesus established a new covenant. Christians worship on the Lord's Day (Sunday) in honor of their risen Saviour.

      Of course, there's no reason to limit worship to one, single day. A person can worship every day.

      If you want to say that Jesus rose on a pagan day and is somehow damaged goods because of that....well...I suppose that's your choice to believe.

  1. Troy D Jones's Avatar Troy D Jones

    I am a Seventh Day Adventist, our day of worship (Sabbath) is from Sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday. I am a Team Leader for the local Ace Hardware, we are closed on Sunday for the Sabbath of the owners of the store.

    I was Baptized into the church in my teens, was a Junior Deacon and gave my sermon in my early 20's, but still I understand the difference in having gas to go to church every other Sabbath and following scriptures that say the Sabbath is a day of rest.

    I follow all other teachings concerning Clean and Unclean foods, the reasons we tithe and so forth. So I have to choose between the Laws of God and the modern living, I choose to live my life as I feel it is necessary to fulfill the laws of God and to abide by the laws of Man.

  1. Joseph Knopick's Avatar Joseph Knopick

    Obviously he claims to be Christian. If he were a Muslim, the day is Friday. Fir Jews, Saturday. If he claimed Sabbath prohibition in Saturday or Friday. He likely would be exempted from working those days. But because so many of us have a Christian background and gave up our cultural exemption to Sabbath, he has a hard time. The I go to church but work Sundays because I have to pay the bills, attitude is the issue. We forget, God is our provider, not. Our payroll office.

  1. Jesse Allan Watson's Avatar Jesse Allan Watson

    I was raised Baptist and Sunday is the Lord's day! This is not new, it's hundreds even thousands of years old. It is not made to be lazy, vengeful or passing the buck. I would say if this were made recent for the purpose of being a fad or so on then no.Who is Amazon or the USPS to say we have to work on Sunday? I would say an additional argument is they don't deliver mail on Sundays but do deliver packages... WTH up w/ that? Why would the most profitable part if GOVT agree to something like that?

  1. Dollylee - Jett's Avatar Dollylee - Jett

    being older, I remember the days of all closed for sunday for curch.

    before the internet, before, with simple times. stores and doctors offices and, and and...were closed for the day. Im not saying it was right, for I know other religions have other days of rest.

    It was nice though, family, day of rest and all that. What happened...did we go overboard even a little or were the masses wrong at that time? got to go with the flow, I guess.

    1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

      @Dollylee - Jett Not so sure those were simpler times….. As I recall war never took Sunday’s off. Once they did for a few hours on Christmas Eve, but that’s it.

      Try shopping for food and other items on a Sunday in Europe, specifically in Germany. You’ll have a difficult time… In America we are the land of capitalism and making as much money as quick as one can. Opening on Sundays meant more shopping hours and more money to be made. Heck in Texas in the 1970s the laws were changed so even women could go shopping on Sunday’s without a permission note from their husbands.

      In the United States businesses making money is far more important to us than the church making money or people attending church. Those are our priorities.

  1. John Darryl Dodd's Avatar John Darryl Dodd

    Postal carriers should not be Forced to deliver packages on Sunday's over their religious Beliefs.It is the Sabbath the day of Rest the LORD says!!!.

    1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

      @John Darryl Dodd If we are supposed to rest, why are so many stores/businesses open on Sundays? Why did we used to have mail delivery on Sundays?

  1. Lindsay Jeanae Preissner's Avatar Lindsay Jeanae Preissner

    If the postal service falls under government rule, then it should function the same as any other government agency, subject to the same days off that the rest have. If that means we suddenly now have mail being delivered on Sunday's, then that's what it means.

    The workers who do not want to work on Sunday's should not be persecuted or even fired at all. What about all of the other religions whose day of rest is on Saturday's? In our diverse world today, it's incredibly unfair to treat Saturday and Sunday as different days of the week.

    However, if you open this can of worms, expect for every business to deem their own closure days, and for employees around the country to decide when they want their 2 days off during the week.

    Inclusivity means not being biased, so an employee who can't work on a Saturday or Sunday should still be hired, but those businesses will need to hire someone who can fill in on those 2 days.

    1. ChiBama's Avatar ChiBama

      Absolutely

  1. pjm's Avatar pjm

    There are 14 different verses in the New Testament about how the hypocrites accused Jesus of healing on the Sabbath... and he called them out for being hypocrites each time. Yhe Old Testament Mosaic laws were fulfilled in Christ, and the new age of Grace began. IMO it's the bane of modern Christianity that so many people use the OT laws to justify their own very human actions, prejudices and convenience, using their religion as an excuse.

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      It’s interesting what people like to believe is true with their religion, isn’t it? I wonder if we will ever get to find out if any of the worlds religions are true in this lifetime? In fact, I wonder if any of the worlds gods that mankind has created are real? 🤷🏼

      🦁❤️

  1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

    At one time you could send a child through the mail. Postal carriers would collect the postage and transport the child to the delivery address.

    1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

      It can have its consequences. It’s been suggested that Dylan Mulvaney was a postal baby. 🤭

      🦁❤️

  1. Thomas P. Davis's Avatar Thomas P. Davis

    From my limited understanding, it is legal for anyone to have off on what they believe is their Holy day as long as it does not place a burden on the employer. Most cases it does not. Many times, other employees will fill in to make a little overtime or just swap places with the individual. I worked in supervision for many years and when Overtime was a must and us supervisors needed to fill the weekends. I ended up with all the Sundays because I would not work the Sabbath. It was never a problem for my superiors. I have read many court cases where the employee lost his job because of his belief and won in court and got his job and back wages back as well. There have been others that lost their job and the Lord provided a better one. We need to have faith. Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

  1. Matthew Mastrogiovanni's Avatar Matthew Mastrogiovanni

    You just don't take job that requires you to work, the hours you are unavailable.

  1. Jeffery Boyd Lyles's Avatar Jeffery Boyd Lyles

    I dated a preacher’s daughter many years ago. My job required me to work Sundays sometimes. Her mom told me that Gog wasn’t going to bless me for working on Sunday. I told her when I worked Sundays and got double time pay, I considered that a blessing. If you can’t fulfill the job requirements, don’t take the job. Some jobs are very demanding.

  1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

    "The First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees that individuals are free to practice their faith without fear of persecution or discrimination. How far do those protections extend, though?"

    • Groff is not being persecuted or discriminated against, he can practice his belief without any problem, nobody says he can't. He just has to make a choice how he's going to go about doing it.

    "Groff says that his faith teaches that Sunday is for rest and worship – a day when no labor should be performed so that all of one’s energies can be put toward honoring God."

    • I asked earlier, can Groff go to a baseball game, or a movie, or even watch TV at home on Sunday? I would say no, because he is not honoring or worshiping his god as he claims he must.

    "He [Groff] also points out that the Postal Service already provides accommodations for other employees who have medical or disability-related issues, and that his request for a religious accommodation should be treated no differently."

    So Groff is claiming that religiosity is akin to a medical or disability issues. I would like to know what the treatment is for religiosity, lorazapam? anti-psychotics?

    1. ChiBama's Avatar ChiBama

      Rev. Mr. Groff knew where he was applying. Where you seek employment is a choice. Choose wisely Groff

    2. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

      @Rev. Dr. Father JJ Isn't this more like a doctor being hired an abortion clinic to preform abortions? Then after being hired the doctor says I can't do abortions as it's against my religion.

  1. Sue's Avatar Sue

    Well if they ask him to work on Sunday I guess if he want to keep his job he will and try to get another day off

    1. Billie Jo VanEss Exorcist's Avatar Billie Jo VanEss Exorcist

      It is of Works that you shall not boast and in that it meant on the Sabbath as it is and has throughout history proclaimed to be inherited through Jesus Christ and in that they Zlso did Works on him on Sunday putting him on the cross So when it comes to Sunday the scheduler must continue ▪︎Vampire Billie Jo War Saw Heaven Stands With Fist VanEss

  1. Peggy J Ventura's Avatar Peggy J Ventura

    More Christian hypocrites.The very same people who want accommodation for Sundays off want other people to work on Sundays to serve them. Sure that’s great , Those people don’t have same beliefs but bring up abortion , birth control and we will strive to impose Our religious beliefs on them.

  1. Lady Mutt Cat's Avatar Lady Mutt Cat

    Here is the current state of the law: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/what-you-should-know-workplace-religious-accommodation The key is reasonableness. No business is expected to change its entire way of doing business to accommodate religious beliefs and practices, but an attempts needs to be made to accommodate those.

  1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

    Well well well, I tried to tell you what was going to be ruled on in this case by the SCOTUS and you refused to listen So here is what was decided

    The Groff case new rule states that religious accommodation requests should be granted unless they impose a “hardship” on the employer that “would be substantial in the context of an employer’s business. Now since the post master has done it before even though he thought he shouldnt be required to do it, the SCOTUS ruled against him and for Groff. And it was a 6-3 decision meaning the chance of it ever being overturned is impossibly slim to not a chance. This also means that if Groff wants his job back, the post office MUST rehire him and make him whole, meaing giving him any raises and promotions and benefits that he would have received if he had not been forced to choose between his religion and a job as is clearly claimed as a violation of the 1st Amendment.

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