Two former construction company workers are suing their employer after they were let go for allegedly refusing to participate in company prayer.
John McGaha and Mackenzie Saunders filed a lawsuit against Aurora Pro Services, a construction company in North Carolina, alleging they were compelled to attend mandatory Christian prayer sessions at work.
The lawsuit asserts that when McGaha and Saunders refused to join the rest of the company in prayer, they were publicly admonished, had their pay cut, and were ultimately fired.
In other words: blatant religious discrimination, the workers argue.
This Wasn’t in the Job Description
Per the lawsuit, one of the workers was told by his boss that he didn’t have “to believe in God,” and he did not “have to like the prayer meetings,” …but he did have to participate in them.
The prayer sessions, held daily, reportedly lasted more than an hour sometimes and included everything from the recitation of the Lord’s Prayer in its entirety, to prayers for poorly performing employees. As part of this tradition, people's mistakes would be aired out in front of their colleagues.
When one of the employees listed their objections to participating in the prayer meetings because they were becoming “cult-like,” the business owner allegedly told them that it would be in their “best interest” to keep praying.
The workers, who identify as atheist and agnostic, were ultimately let go. But one saw his pay get cut in half in September 2020 before he was fired. This punishment, he believes, was for his dissent over attending the company prayer.
Now, the ex-employees are suing, with the backing of the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC).
The EEOC alleges that Aurora Pro Services violated federal law by retaliating against non-religious employees. As one EEOC attorney put it, “employers who sponsor prayer meetings in the workplace have a legal obligation to accommodate employees whose personal religious or spiritual views conflict with the company’s practice.”
Pray to Jesus… or Else
Though Aurora Pro Services’ home page makes no mention of mandatory prayer sessions, it is filled with biblical references, including a testimonial from the owner that “the solution can always be found in God.”
The namesake of the company appears to be the owner’s grandmother Aurora, who, the website declares, “had a [deep] faith in God.”
The company’s career page, however, doesn’t list having a strong Christian faith as a workplace requirement. It also makes no mention of mandatory company prayers.
Business owners are entitled to their faith, just like anyone else.
But the EEOC is arguing that a legal line is crossed when employees are forced to participate in religious activities that conflict with their own beliefs.
How might things be received if the shoe were on the other foot? Consider a Muslim-owned shop that forced Christians to pray towards Mecca every day, or an atheist-owned business that forced Christian employees to denounce Jesus every morning.
Is it okay to force employees to participate in religious activities, or was the company in the wrong here?
78 comments
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Colleen McAllister
Really simple. They were told to attend a mandatory prayer meeting but did not believe in prayer. Were they getting paid for this time? If so, go to the meeting, keep your mouth shut, and zone out for however long the time is. Paid for doing nothing? I'm in.
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Colleen McAllister
Really simple. They were told to attend a mandatory prayer meeting but did not believe in prayer. Were they getting paid for this time? If so, go to the meeting, keep your mouth shut, and zone out for however long the time is. Paid for doing nothing? I'm in.
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Colleen McAllister
Really simple. They were told to attend a mandatory prayer meeting but did not believe in prayer. Were they getting paid for this time? If so, go to the meeting, keep your mouth shut, and zone out for however long the time is. Paid for doing nothing? I'm in.
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Colleen McAllister
Really simple. They were told to attend a mandatory prayer meeting but did not believe in prayer. Were they getting paid for this time? If so, go to the meeting, keep your mouth shut, and zone out for however long the time is. Paid for doing nothing? I'm in.
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Colleen McAllister
Really simple. They were told to attend a mandatory prayer meeting but did not believe in prayer. Were they getting paid for this time? If so, go to the meeting, keep your mouth shut, and zone out for however long the time is. Paid for doing nothing? I'm in.
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Wilberta M. Berry
Jesus told his disciples to spread the good news. However, he told them if people weren't receptive to kick the dust from their sandals and move on. He didn't tell them to force the news on anyone. Yes they were wrongfully terminated. Some professed Christians don't know Jesus at all.
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Joe R Day
I worked as a union construction electrician and took a call to a contractor. Start time was 7:00 am and I rolled in at 6:50 am. climbed out of my rig, grabbed my tool bag and my lunch box and headed into the shop. There were 8 people on one knee, praying out loud reciting a bible verse. I'm an atheist but a polite one. I quietly set my stuff down and sat on a bench. Boss finishes the prayer, Amen and he comes over to me "You have a problem with us praying? The guys show up at a quarter-till and we pray. You have a problem with that?" I grinned and said "Do you pay them to pray? Or is this just 'off the clock'? I'll be here at 10-till but I ain't praying." He didn't say anything else and he ran a good job. I worked for him for 3 weeks and requested a layoff.
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John A Carreiro
Hi All, here is the logical way to view this question. No matter what the job description is at the time a hiring unless you have an employment contract signed and notarized, as to what your employment duties are to be specifically, then you are an employee at will of the employer. Which means you can be terminated for any reason or no reason at all. You get x amount of dollars for doing the employer's will per hour. You are to do the employer's will for any and all assignments. If in of the assignments, handed out me by the boss, I find not by liking I can walk out and quit. But as my boss is paying me by the hour I either work or quit. On the boss' clock he pays you for your time, therefore unless you find it not your cup tea you have to quit or the boss can fire you. It is that simple. What the boss cannot do is make you obey him when you are on his payroll. The boss does not force you to believe in what he is preaching only to participate. Always rember he who has the gold makes the rules.
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Joe R Day
John, I agree in principal when you said " Always remember, he who has the gold makes the rules." I would remind you that is one reason labor unions were formed. The electricians, plumbers, carpenters and the iron workers would like to remind you that it doesn't have to be that way. Agreements negotiated in good faith stop unfairness in the shop "Which means you can be terminated for any reason or no reason at all." When there is a contract, 'he who has the gold' must abide by it.
Back to the article "John McGaha and Mackenzie Saunders filed a lawsuit against Aurora Pro Services, a construction company in North Carolina, alleging they were compelled to attend mandatory Christian prayer sessions at work. The lawsuit asserts that when McGaha and Saunders refused to join the rest of the company in prayer, they were publicly admonished, had their pay cut, and were ultimately fired."
Even without a union contract, there are still laws that deal with these type of workplace issues. Personally, I hope they win because it is my belief the Religion belongs in the home and church... not the workplace (unless it's blatantly religious lol)
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Praying is a total waste of time. When it doesn’t work (100%), it’s “god swill”. When it does “work” in their minds, it’s still “god swill” and never any human reason!
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Michael Junior Roland
Bishop Mike R. I’m not a fan of pushing religious beliefs on anyone but I will tell them about THE GREATEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED AND THAT WAS GETTING SAVED AND RECEIVING JESUS CHRIST AS MY LORD AND SAVIOR, everyone has a right to choosing how they want to live and that’s for JESUS or against him, and no one should be forced into doing anything that don’t believe in doing, yes the company was wrong and I am praying for them that got fired that they will see the light and receive JESUS as their way of life, Thank You and have a blessed day.
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Michael Junior Roland
I’m a Pastor and I do believe that there right to pray or not pray is totally up to them and to be fired from your job because you don’t believe well to me I do agree that with this the company they worked for is wrong, I do believe in doing my best to lead people to the LORD but I’m not going to push it down their throat and make them worship my LORD JESUS CHRIST that is totally up to them but don’t get me wrong I will continue to throw scriptures out there where people can hear them, yes the company was wrong in firing them because every job I have had plainly says they will not discriminate on color, race, or RELIGION, Thank You and GOD BLESS!!!
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Rev. Kev
It's really silly to force anyone to pray, or attend a prayer session. If they aren't a believer, forced attendance will just push most people away from wanting to learn more about whatever faith is being practised. The people doing the forcing don't appear to care or understand that a forced prayer is no real prayer at all. It's empty posturing. Hypocrisy. Which might lead the casual observer to question the sincerity of those running the show. If it's just vain words then one would think that would be more offensive to God than just skipping the entire hour-long charade and being a decent person the entire day.
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JT of the plains
Forcing someone to pray is a violation of the free exercise of religion which is in the Constitution. Forcing someone to pray is also a violation of Christian principles. Matthew 20:24-28 (NRSV) When the ten heard it, they were angry with the two brothers. But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones are tyrants over them. It will NOT be so among you; but whoever wishes to be great among you must be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you must be your slave; just as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many.” The employer who forces his workers to pray is violating both the Bible's principles, and the Constitution. Sad.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
I think the old saying, “You can take a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink!”, says it all! If this issue cannot be resolved legally or rationally, then the employees concerned should should use the time for relaxing, listening to music, or something better than the ignorant Xtian nonsense being peddled and using the paid time to think about their life and whatever else makes them happy!
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Rodney
I understand everyone’s opinion but on any job in the job description it just tells vaguely about the job nothing really about the pay and after you are excepted in the job it doesn’t tell you that you have mandatory safety meetings and the job description and also don’t tell you that you have managers meetings supervisors meetings that you must all attend to so what’s the difference and this guy using Jesus as a safety net for his company but because we say Jesus God then we are doing something wrong and if I was to go to a Jewish theme and had to pray to Mecca and I am going to do it I’m on my breath just like any prayer I be praying to Jesus you can do things without stepping on anyone’s toes or making anyone feel low less esteem this company only wanted his people to get together pray and talk out what was on their mind anything happened anything that they thought about the job any mistakes they made so how can this be so bad one and a lot of the other companies put up safety zero and really thought really less about it because they rather push out more labor and they end the hour and left sitting around this guy offers a one hour talking praying like a stress session that this company was doing for his employees where they can sit around talk laugh and whatever was on their mind but because something so simple is this we want to knock it down and have going in there talking about it made it easier for the employees to get the job done and work together then I think he was doing a terrific job if you don’t believe in Jesus or God or anything else on something like that is happening then all you Gotta do is just sit there and ignore anything that was going on around you it’s nothing more than going into a safety meeting and saying here we go again same thing over and over but people please get a grip on all of this there’s people that believe in Jesus God the devil whoever but the thing about it is is that whatever makes your heart feel safe to talk to someone to make someone feel comfortable you don’t have to abolish it and say let’s get the lawyers and as Sue here in the United States all I ever hear Sue we’re going to assume you guys are ratios of Rusu because you talk to me wrong we’re gonna sue because I was supposed to get a raise and we’re gonna sue do whatever everyone please get your grip song get yourself in order there’s a lot going on in this country without having to tear Jesus down or God down or any anything everyone has their own beliefs and truly when you die will bill find out pretty much what belief was right
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Have you never heard of punctuation.?
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Douglas R. Reynolds
This is not ok. As a Christian I find it appalling to force my faith on others. I don't mind people preaching on the streets and things like that but to force your employees to participate in these prayer meetings and then punishing those that refuse is plain wrong and, most likely, illegal.
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JT of the plains
Agreed.
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Diane Minna LaFave
This is wrong on the companies part. I am a Believer but would refuse to mandatory prayer at work also. This would fall under my Constitutional Right to choose . It's also the WRONG way to show the love of our Father and Jesus to force Prayer on anyone. As a Christian I would sue them too.
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arawngraalrd
There should be no test of Faith for Public Office.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
Why do so many people think they have to be so damn honest about themselves to everyone all the time? The world is my stage, and I am it's greatest actor, but I'm true to myself, and me, myself, and I get along with eachother just fine. And with a BS here, and a BS there, I think we'll make it (without suing anyone).
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David Bartlett
I wish them luck in their law suit. I live in the bible belt and more than half of all the job interviews I have gone on have included questions about my religious beliefs and practices, quite illegal. One business owner said he had never seen me in church and I said that I don't belong to his church and then he said I would need a reference from HIS pastor if I wanted to work for him.
Good luck suing in the bible belt. Despite all of the above, I was unable to find one attorney who would take my case, any of them. They all told me it is virtually impossible to win since the only evidence allowed in court would be witness testimony and who is going to testify against themselves?
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Byran Keith Speigner III
So sick of Christian Nationalism. Can this era of history just die already?
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Thomas Edwin Peterson
If not wishing to pray just lower your face slightly and remain silent. Prayer can be silent and man cannot tell whether your doing whats told or not. Attendance is mamdatory so do this and they have no reason to complain since your not upsetting their meeting and such. Good luck
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arawngraalrd
Personal Integrity seems important to me, and I'd rather not receive False Prayer. If I am obliged to be respectful of Left-Handed People, perhaps I am not working in the right place. The Confucian Symbol for Courtesy involves an Alter of Sacrifice, so how is Courtesy different from Prayer? Bosses are demanding respect for Customers all the time, without Rhyme or Reason, why not demand respect for the Genii of a shop, to whom Muslims may not bow?
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James Riggle-Johnson
Once again, Christians are forcing their beliefs on everyone. I don’t care who you are… you cannot require a person to pray for any purpose. You can require them to attend a meeting, but forcing them to listen to the gospel is not a right.
Of course, if you fight this, the Christians in question will say you’re violating their deeply held religious beliefs, that you’re trying to cancel them. Yet they are trying to cancel you by forcing you into prayer. You cannot say Christians only may apply no more than you can say whites only. I am sick of Christians forcing their religion on everyone. FYI… I am Christian.
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Carl Bernard Elfstrom
If I made the mistake of taking a job that required such things, even though I'm nothing like a christian, if I couldn't afford to quit until I found another job, I wouldn't have a problem with acting like a christian, while seeking employment elsewhere. I did it throughout my childhood to please my christian family. Sure, I'd rather be my authentic self, but won't be so when it would hurt me. As soon as I took another job, hopefully where I could be myself, I'd tell practically everyone about that company, and their practices. I'm 59 years old, and haven't sued anyone yet. I could have sometimes, but never have wanted to. I'd rather get away from people I have problems with, when it's feasible, and tell them off when it's not. I think a lot of people think of suing others as a way of making money, and most people are always seeking ways to getore of it, even when it takes hurting someone for hurting them. I get enough money to live on, and am comfortable with that. If I can't get extra moneyit from the lottery tickets I buy I don't want it!!!
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Nicholas J Page
No one religious or not should be forced to attend prayer meetings it's a choice not mandatory.I hope they successfully win their case.If it's written in their country which it shouldn't be.The employees must have a quiet word with the heirachy and say about their non religious beliefs.The management must allow this.
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Rev Mark D
Anyway if I'm correct not for North Carolina is a right to work state.
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Byran Keith Speigner III
Most states below the Mason-Dixon line are right to work states
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Paul Edward Nunis
This has nothing to do with Right To Work states, which in turn have nothing to do with geography.
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Rev. T
It means "No Unions". No collective bargaining for work conditions, which is a flagstone of prosperity for workers. It means, "This place would use slaves if it were legal to do so."
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Rev Mark D
Was the Inquisition okay?
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Charles Jude Platt
More and more, each day here in America proves that Christianity no longer represents Jesus Christ.
WTF, is causing this madness?
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Rev. Dr. James Jacob Showers Jr
If I recall correctly, isn't there such a thing as 'separation of church and state'?..It is always nice when an employer, authorizes us to 'break bread with our neighbors?'.. I do believe that they have a pretty good chance of winning, unless there is something I am missing in the article.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Refuse to pray? What I would have said would have been far more aggressive and specific had I been told that I must do so. Working in sports medicine I was required to be at all high school’s football games. I never, once, participated in the anthem by even pausing. If I was idle I would find something that needed to be done. Nothing was said.
If a prayer was being held at work, and everyone snuck away to do it, I’d treat it lime some weird fetish involving horse feces, baby urine, duct tape, a diaper and a wooden spoon. Ya’ll wash up when you’re done. If they did it openly then my facial expression would send a clear message. If told I must participate I would expound upon the childishness, gullibility, and willful ignorance of following the superstitions of a group of Bronze Age desert goat herders that couldn’t even explain where the sun went at night.
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Eric James Hudnall
No, it's not OK! What if the prayer service consisted of sacrificing live kittens on a BBQ? Would you be onboard with that? No, these doors need to stay closed. The first thing thru it might seem innocuous enough, but other things will follow. Better nothing at all.
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Donald Richard Starns
I would probably attend, if I were being paid. Bring some earbuds, play some heathen rock tunes, nod along with the cultists.
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Byran Keith Speigner III
That's honestly how we should be handling these people in the first place. If they're going to try and punish us regardless, we might as well live how we want.
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Robert Gagnon
The company is totally in the wrong. But, I am sure during orientation it must have occurred to these 2 employees that the prayer thing was going to become an issue. Orientation is three months at most companies, which normally allows an employer the right to let any one go for no particular reason. I once worked in a shop where the owner printed short biblical references on our paychecks. I didn't like it but he paid us very well. If it were an issue I would have left there for a less intrusive paycheck. This was not brought up during my initial interview, and like I stated, we were well paid. As a shop supervisor in later years we had our little peculiarities. Everything from shop voodoo dolls to the Ra the sun God. just for entertainment value. I would never let someone go for not playing along. Then again I looked for people with imagination that could think on their feet. Not a sheep looking for a Shepard.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
If It were me and I did notice, I would have found another job during the 3 months you reference. But Zi would also have contacted an attorney and prepared for a lawsuit. Illegal sh, uh, stuff needs to be punished. And this would have bern too good to pass up.
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Chris
"Chrisitans" are the ones who are forcing their "sincerely held religious beliefs" onto everyone and get all whiny if someone objects. If they want it to be mandatory they need to put it in the job description. Just like all the other cases of religious discrimination, had they been forced to follow some other belief they would have balked and called the news station immediately, not stayed and tried to work it out.
And they say other people are the ones with agendas....
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arawngraalrd
What if your job required dancing naked at a crossroads, or avoiding Pork, or working six days but not a seventh?
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Chris
As I said, if so it needs to be made clear in the job description at the beginning. If I want to apply at a job and they say in the description I have to dance naked at a crossroads then I would know not to apply or at least know to expect to have to do so. In this particular case it was not made clear that forced prayer would be mandatory. In such a case the choices are to either leave or try to work it out.
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arawngraalrd
So this question hinges on a contract explicit or implied?
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Chris
Of course. If a posted job description includes specific details and you cannot do them for some reason, and reasonable accommodation can't be made, you shouldn't apply.
However, if no mention of mandatory religious practices are made or implied an applicant should not be required to follow them.
Mandatory religious practices should be discussed during an interview at the very latest. "Fridays are casual dress, we have mandatory forced prayer every day, and the breakroom is over there." If it's not addressed at the beginning the applicant can't be held responsible for not knowing about it.
I'm not saying this business can't have their prayer time. I don't think they should but that's not the point. I'm saying if they expect applicants to adhere to it such things must be made clear at the beginning.
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JaZe
work prayer assembly? 👎
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Daniel Gray
Says WHO EEOC? And where were you when I filed a complaint against Chrysler saying they were forcing me to work on my Sabbath, and you then sent me a letter saying that this was not a legal option for you to pursue? And yes I still have a copy of that letter. So my apologies if I call BS on this claim of the backing of the EEOC. And show me exactly where it says that I have to make accommodations for non religious workers as I have owned a couple businesses for over 30 years and I have not seen this nor have I been told this by anyone in the EEOC or any state/federal agency. All I was told was that I had to make accommodations for people who were religious and nothing more. Now if this is company policy and they still accepted employment, then they will loose the case because they knew what they were getting into BEFORE they got hired. If it was changed AFTER they got hired, then they might have a case but I highly doubt it. This falls under the same claim by some teens that they have a constitutional right to lift weights....as in no they dont and neither does these two have anything to complain about. This was already brought up in the 6th US District Court and it was decided in a FEDERAL Court that the employer must make accommodations for the employee but then the employee must in turn make up their work. For instance if a 7th Day Adventist could not work on a saturday, then the employer must allow them that day off, BUT the employee must in turn make up these hours either by working more hours during the week or working on a sunday. Sounds to me like two people seem to want to get an easy payday.
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Robert James Ruhnke
😂 or maybe it’s time religious fundies need to grow up from their social opiates and stop taking their bs religious views so seriously. Sounds like religious fundies are also pushing for theocratic fascism. I get that sounds great to Fake Natives like yourself, but it sounds like you’d still be bottom of the barrel 🤷🏻♂️
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Daniel Gray
And maybe its time for people like this to wake up from the haze they are in to understand that not everything belong or revolves around them. You walk into a situation and do it freely up to and even signing an employment contract, then you have nobody to blame but yourself if things dont go the way you want them to. And just remember, they tried this with Chick-Fil-A and lost because this violates the company owners 1st Amendment rights. Nothing they say is going to convince a judge that they didnt know this was a requirement or could be a future requirement.
Using your logic then I could have sued the Military for changing the PT requirements because some idiot in DC decided they likes "grass drills" better then push ups as when I signed up the PT requirement was grass drills. Your claim makes about as much sense and thats no sense at all. Using your logic that would mean that the business owner has absolutely no authority to change the workplace rules. Try that before a judge and see how far it gets you.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Nope. Still using your logic Gray. Not mine. Because I really wish Christians would stop thinking the universe revolves around them and their cult. Considering how it’s them bullying and murdering those who they perceive of as “evil.” Some people just aren’t cut out to be business owners, and should probably just not try to push their religion onto people. Sounds to me like they jumped these employees with it. Which is bs. You christo-fascists need a heavy reality check.
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Daniel Gray
Nope I am using fact and law, and it seems you are doing neither. Maybe you should actually check with what the law and the courts have said before you make yourself look even more foolish and biased then you do now.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Lol you type entire novels of foolish biased nonsense so I can understand why you try to push it off on others as their “logic” lol keep going though.
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Daniel Gray
I type facts and you just get so upset that you cant refute anything. So all one has to do is look at your name and consider the source if they want to believe your fantasy or check the facts and show that you are wrong as usual.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
You’re in the majority percentage-wise so far as your beliefs, but legally, (and cognitively) you’re as unstable as a 3-legged stool with a missing leg. They told you to take your claim, open Word, print it out in color on A4 paper set to landscape mode, fold the printout in half 5 times, soak it in olive oil and stick it where the sun don’t shine.
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Daniel Gray
No I am in the MAJORITY. All you have to do is look at the same sex couples (one in Toledo Ohio and one at Notre Dame) who were both fired for ignoring the the rules they agreed to when they were hired. Both of them were told that they could continue teaching as long as they didnt try and tell the students about their living arrangements. They refused and when they were fired this went to TWO US District Courts (Northern US District Court of Indiana and 6th US District Court of appeals in Cincy Ohio with the 6th being one step below the SCOTUS) and BOTH rulings were that they should have read their contracts as they FREELY signed up and now they cant afford to cry about something they agreed to. Same thing here. They AGREED to the company's rules and if they had a problem with them they should have mentioned this BEFORE they started work. So I guess its YOU who should take your own advice Carl.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
And what's wrong with them wanting an easy payday when it's the law?
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Daniel Gray
Its not, its only what the EEOC claims. And federal courts have already ruled that once you sign the employment contract and start working, you then cant come along and complain about the results. Nor can you complain if the company changes the rules. If that were the case then EVERY business and company in the US would be able to be sued.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
So ifbthe company changes the rules and requires employees to wear rainbow colors, that’s okay? Because there was a recent article where the religious people were really passed about that requirement. Said employers couldn’t do that .
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Daniel Gray
Nice try, but there was a company that tried this already out in California and they were sued and they lost the case because the rainbow pins in support of gay rights was not part of the official company uniform. Shows how desperate you are when you try and use smoke and mirrors like this since you cant prove your point any other way
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Douglas Robert Spindler
This is America, EVERY business and company in the US CAN be able to be sued.
Rules about abortion were just changed. Women which hired by a company which offered medical coverage for abortions might not be able to offer them anymore. So company rules do and have changed.
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Daniel Gray
Yes they can be sued, but when they try it for stupid reasons like this two fools, they will be laughed out of court and the case will be tossed with prejudice meaning they cant ever file it again. And they have just shown that nobody will hire them because how can they truest them to not try and pull the same kind of crap on their new employers if they suddenly dont like the rules ot the changing of the company rules. If they dont like it then they should have just quit and got it over with as they wont win this case.
And sorry but there never was any rules on abortion as it never was a right nor a law. All Roe did was say it could not be banned. And the ONLY people who can make a law according to the Constitution is the Congress, and that includes any mandates or new regulations coming out of the alphabet soup in DC or the WH (SCOTUS CDC eviction case and EPA v W Virginia) and Article 3 (powers of the Judiciary) clearly does not and never has given the SCOTUS the ability nor authority to "interpret" anything.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
You might want to take another look at the Roe vs. Wade decision.
Fifth Amendment (Amdt5.4.5.2.4.2.1) Right to an Abortion
The court decided that abortion prior to the end of the first trimester is relatively safe, the mortality rate being lower than the rates for normal childbirth, and because the fetus has no capability of meaningful life outside the mother’s womb, the Court found that the state has no “compelling interest” in the first trimester and “the attending physician, in consultation with his patient, is free to determine, without regulation by the State, that, in his medical judgment, the patient’s pregnancy should be terminated.”
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/amendment-5/right-to-an-abortion
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Daniel Gray
Sorry maybe you should do a little research on your own instead of accepting the lies from the pro abortionists.
FACT Article 3 US Constitution (powers of the Judiciary) at NO time does it say nor give the SCOTUS the right to interpret anything. And at NO Time does it say or give the SCOTUS the right to make up mythical rights out of thin air. And if you read the Roe decision (and you clearly have not) it clearly states that there is absolutely NO right to privacy anywhere in the Constitution. Now after getting slapped with reality and fact, go and read article 1 Section 1 of the Constitution where it specifically states that only the CONGRESS can make a law or give weight of law or make a mandate. and finally nice of you to outright lie as the 5th Amendment does not and never has said anything on Abortion, all it says is that you cannot be made to incriminate yourself. nothing more. So far you have been destroyed by the US Constitution, but please continue is you want to be shown up again
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Umm try reading the First, Fourth, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. Are you telling me they are not dealing with people's privacy? EVERY state in the union has law protecting very state in the Union has laws protecting one's privacy when it comes to communications.
Dude an abortion is a medical treatment. At one time the US forced medical treatments upon women, but we don't do that anymore except in rare and extreme cases.
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Daniel Gray
I DID and sorry "DUDE" but the right to privacy is not mentioned in any of these Articles you try and cite. And if you believe they are then name the article and section. I wont hold my breath waiting as you are "interpreting" and the SCOTUS is NOT allowed to interpret anything a per article 3, heck even the SCOTUS has repeatedly stated they cannot interpret anything so I guess you are calling them a liar now? According to Article 3 the only FOUR powers the court has are The Supreme Court's original jurisdiction applies to cases involving: disputes between states, actions involving various public officials, disputes between the United States and a state, and proceedings by a state against the citizens or aliens of another state. So where exactly is this mythical right to privacy again?
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Dude did you not learn anything about the history of our country and our laws in school? My friend do you have a right to privacy to do whatever you want in your bedroom or closet? Do you have a right to privacy when you speak with your lawyer? Doctor? Or priest? Do you have a right to privacy when it comes to computer passwords, PIN and decryption keys? If you murdered someone do you have a right to privacy and the right to remain silent? Should you want a sex change operation is this something you would need to tell the government? Or do you have a right to privacy? Even our President has recognized the people's right to privacy and just how important PRIVACY it is to the citizens of our country.
Facts are the enemy of your truth in this conversation.
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Daniel Gray
yea the facts ARE your enemy as nothing you have said is valid, that is unless you want to call the US Supreme Court and federal courts liars as they didnt rule how you wanted them to. So keep spinning as all you are doing is digging your hole deeper and deeper and you didnt bring a ladder or a rope. So when it caves in on you then its all on you in more ways then one
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Rev Mark D
Seems to me if they wanted an easy payday all they had to do was stand around for an hour mumbling false Ascent to prayers. What's wrong with that, free money.
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Douglas Robert Spindler
Nothing, they should get it.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Obviously it's not okay to enforce employees into ANY religious activity that they were not reasonably aware of, prior to taking the job, might be required.
And that applies to any religious activity or faith such as Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism or Wokeism.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Woke isn’t a religion. It’s just a dumb buzzword conservatives have hijacked to make false equivalency claims with.
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Rev. MichaelRS
There is religion and then there is "religion". The extreme, often irrational, zeal with which wokeness is approached puts it firmly in the "religion" camp. Very similar in nature to various Pagan practices.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Irrational zeal? Lol Pagans don’t have the blind zeal of Christians. Maybe they once did, but that 2000 years ago. Before Charlemagne brought Christianity to the rest of Europe through the sword. Christians have been murdering in the name of their god for far longer than any one pagan group. You’re projecting so you can play victim and plot murderous retribution to where you’re pointed. I didn’t realize being anti racist, anti-fascist, ati-slavery, and anti superstitious were irrational. But I’m sure you’ll have some backwards *** statement to make where you miss the irony completely.
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Rev. MichaelRS
It's nice for one to be "anti" this or that and if you will show me somebody who is racist who is pro slavery who is profession I will stand with the anti people against them.
UNLESS what those particular anti people are for/pro is just as destructive on the other side of the coin. In other words you don't just look at what people are against you also look at what they are for.
And as we have noted of late every time the left does not get their way on issue they have become very destructive these days.
So yes, I will fight against racism and discrimination but that also includes racism and discrimination against white people. (And assigning certain characteristics or attributes to a group of people because of the color of skin IS racism)
I will fight against fascism, but also against its companion totalitarian philosophy communism or socialism. Each one out to destroy the freedom and liberty of the individual in favor of the collective and group think. In that regard they are on separate paths to the same destination.
As far as slavery goes... well I don't even know why you brought that up. That issue was settled in 1865.
And every time something does not go the way the left wants they want to blow it up or tear it down. Don't like a Supreme Court decision?; Threaten the justices or threaten to pack the court.
Don't like Roe being overturned? Attack pro-life organizations and persons. Oh sure I know there were crazy people on the right that bombed abortion clinics. But it's a matter of degree. Violence on the right for pro-life is nothing compared to the violence from the pro-choice side.
And then the violence all across the country for months after Trump was elected and what do you have with the Biden election? One day, January 6th. (which, if I have to say it, I thought was disgusting as well)
But the way the left, particularly a number of leftist women, are so fanatically reacting to the Dobbs decision, one is left with the impression that the only reason they have sex in the first place is so they can look forward to the abortion.
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Rev. MichaelRS
First paragraph above should have read: Show me somebody who is pro-racist, pro-slavery and pro- fascism and I will stand against them too.
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Rev. MichaelRS
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Really simple. They were told to attend a mandatory prayer meeting but did not believe in prayer. Were they getting paid for this time? If so, go to the meeting, keep your mouth shut, and zone out for however long the time is. Paid for doing nothing? I'm in.