depiction of human evolution written on chalkboard
Is teaching evolution appropriate for schools?

Should schools be banned from teaching evolution because it's tantamount to a religion?

That’s what one family is arguing in a lawsuit filed against the Indiana State Board of Education, the Indiana Secretary of Education, and their local school district last year. Through the lawsuit, the family hopes to force schools to take all mention of evolution out of public school science classrooms.

What was their argument, and what did the courts say?

Is Evolution Indoctrination?

The lawsuit was filed by Indiana parents Jason and Jennifer Reinoehl, who say that teaching evolution is a violation of the Establishment Clause of the Constitution because it endorses “the atheist religion”.

They argue that the state’s science curriculum – which mandates the teaching of evolution – is nothing less than religious indoctrination for Indiana schoolchildren.

“Penn High School teaches, in accordance with Indiana Department of Education guidelines, the state-sponsored, atheistic, religious Theory of Evolution,” reads the lawsuit. The defendants caused “pain and suffering” to the Reinoehl family by forcing their children “to learn and cite as truth religious origin stories that were different from those in which they believe in.”

“[Their daughter Sarah was] taught the atheist Theory of Evolution as if it were scientific truth,” the lawsuit reads, which goes “against her religious beliefs as a Christian.”

Science or Faith

The 35-page lawsuit not only frequently calls evolution a religion, but repeatedly casts doubt on its overall scientific veracity, arguing that evolution is “inherently religious, not scientific, in nature.”

The lawsuit calls into question everything from the fossil record to carbon dating in its effort to debunk evolution, and the Reinoehls even argue that evolution was once “taught alongside eugenics” as proof it should be removed from school textbooks. 

But the main thrust of the lawsuit is that evolution is just as much of a religion as any other faith. And if other religions can’t be taught in schools, neither should evolution. The lawsuit continues:

“Evolution is a non-scientific belief, made in opposition to the known, tested, and observed laws of science. It bestows upon ‘nature’ both intelligence and supernatural power to select and discern one animal from another. Evolution is inherently a religious origin myth, argument, or assertion that falls outside the realm of science. It is neither scientific nor a testable theory in the scientific sense.”

What Did The Courts Say?

A judge ruled that teaching evolution does not constitute a violation of the Establishment Clause because the lawsuit failed to establish that evolution and atheism are religions.

In her ruling, Federal District Court Judge Sarah Evans Barker wrote that “[the courts] find that Plaintiffs have failed to allege an Establishment Clause violation here,” quoting the 1982 ruling in McLean v. Arkansas Bd. of Ed. which found that “it is clearly established in the case law, and perhaps also in common sense, that evolution is not a religion and that teaching evolution does not violate the Establishment Clause.” 

“Because Plaintiffs are unable to plausibly allege that teaching evolution in public schools establishes a religion, their Establishment Clause claim necessarily fails as a matter of law and must be dismissed,” the ruling concludes.

Fight Not Over

It’s unclear at this time if the Reinoehls will appeal the case. But what is clear is they are not alone in this belief. These sentiments can be found in online posts, for example:

And then there are more formal opposition groups like the Institute for Creation Research (ICR), which argues that "evolution is a religion, not science." The ICR writes on its website:

"Many leading evolutionists have recognized the essentially 'religious' character of evolutionism. Even though they themselves believe evolution to be true, they acknowledge the fact that they believe it! 'Science', however, is not supposed to be something one 'believes'. Science is knowledge—that which can be demonstrated and observed and repeated. Evolution cannot be proved, or even tested; it can only be believed."

The group employs its own scientific team, which it claims can poke holes in the theory of evolution. "ICR scientists have spent more than 50 years researching scientific evidence that refutes evolutionary philosophy and confirms the Bible’s account of a recent and special creation," the website states. 

What is your reaction? Do you buy the argument that evolution is a kind of religion, or is that simply a ploy to advance creationist beliefs?

386 comments

  1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

    This is a comical suit. Evolution theory is based on scientific testing, not blind faith. Science is not the "religion of atheism", it's our best understanding of the world we live in. If you want to argue that atheism is a religious belief we can have that discussion, but it is not a religion itself since it is simply the lack of belief in a creator or religion.

    1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

      You are wrong and must be high. Mathematics and science have quantified the the theory of evolution is fake, there is no such thing as evolution, there is only De-volution. If you don't want to believe in God that's your problem just don't include us in your fallacy.

      1. TheStranger's Avatar TheStranger

        @Mrknowitall—Nothing in your post is remotely factual. Let’s start with your claim that “Mathematics and science have quantified the theory of evolution is fake.” Please, oh, please, delight us with your sources and scientific data for that claim. Secondly, no one was including you or anyone else to believe proven research. If you don’t want to believe in evolution, that’s your problem, just don’t include the rest of us (sane and not high) in your magical beliefs.

        1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

          If you don’t read and know about the second law of Thermodynamics than your hopeless, and quit trying to demean people the way you talk you hardly know anything

          1. Asa William Sprague, II's Avatar Asa William Sprague, II

            The second law of Thermodynamics does not apply to the Theory of Evolution. If you are truly knowledgeable about the second law of Thermodynamics, you know that that law only applies to "closed systems." The Earth is not a closed system because the Sun is an external energy source.

            1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

              You should let the Climbing Change crowd know about that Asa. They seem to ignore that gigantic thermonuclear fireball in the sky when they crunch the numbers.

              1. Asa William Sprague, II's Avatar Asa William Sprague, II

                SoJ - I have no idea what "Climbing Change crowd" you are referring to. I assume it's not "an organization that aims to increase the participation of BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, and People of Color) in rock climbing and outdoor adventure activities," but I could be wrong.

              2. Grand Poobah M's Avatar Grand Poobah M

                I think they meant climate change but your rebuttal is absolutely hilarious....ha ha ha.

      2. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

        math and science have done no such thing. Evolution is factually the way the world works, to claim otherwise would suggest someone came from rocks, or mud, or the mystical magical twisty finger of gawd

        BTW, you're evolving whether you want to or not, problem for us is, just not fast enough

        1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

          Everyone of my cells are dying, no one or nothing evolves into anything better. Read and learn about the second law of Thermodynamics

          1. Philosopher Mike's Avatar Philosopher Mike

            You are being a bit absolutist. Every one of your cells is also in a state of regeneration. I imagine you have scraped your knee or pricked your finger before, and I imagine you didn’t forever have an open wound that never healed.

            1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

              Philosopher Mike,

              That is not the same as saying my great great great grandfather was a monkey!

        2. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

          Jj,

          Just as the old bromide "who created God" is asked, one must ask the evolutionists, where did the first lifeform come from. The answer is chemical evolution or plainly said, evolution. Even more plainly said, rocks and funky mud is where life came from. Or if you prefer, magic dust.

          In the end, as all other religions must believe, so must the evolutionists believe.

        3. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

          Rev. Dr. Father JJ,

          Factually, we come from the earth. That's there, in Genesis.

      3. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

        Mrknowitall, clearly you don't know it all. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK230201/

        1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

          Michael Hunt,

          Darwin was a devout atheist, with evolution as his dogma!

      4. TheStranger's Avatar TheStranger

        Comment removed by user.

      5. Reverend Paula Copp's Avatar Reverend Paula Copp

        Mrknowitall, every post of yours indicates that your name should be Mrknownothing…

    2. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Michael,

      Not exactly. It'd be more accurate to state that evolution is based on scientific speculation and the Bible is based on historical records.

      1. Kirsty Hermiston's Avatar Kirsty Hermiston

        Don't forget about the documented stories of visitors from other worlds in the Bible. The Anunnaki, of the ancient Sumerian. Elijah’s Fiery Chariot, Jacob’s vision of angels ascending and descending a stairway from heaven.

        just what popped into my head

        1. Barry Lee Lopatic's Avatar Barry Lee Lopatic

          Yes, a very interesting sudy indeed! Many of the accounts in the bible predate the characters in the Bible and are confirmed by numerous civilizations and cultures. It takes some work to reconstruct how the Annunaki were involved with history and how they are represented in the Bible. Translations and copyright changes have blurred the characters over time. Very interesting indeed! Stepping outside the aproved Bible and studying the other Books available helps tremendously!

  1. Reverend Paula Copp's Avatar Reverend Paula Copp

    Evolution is provable. It’s not a religion. Just because someone doesn’t like a fact doesn’t make it anything other than a fact.

    1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

      Hardly so Paula.

      Go ahead and find some self spawning life from funky mud and show it to me. I get a cup of coffee while you rummage through the drawers for it.

      You have no choice but to believe.

      1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

        SHOJ

        so the issue is not how life first started but rather, how life evolves. and that is, of course, what evolution is about.

        what you are doing here is wanting to conflate the issue of how life first appeared with what happened to it once it did.

        to understand evolution is to understand scientific investigation and the nature of how life meets and adapts to changes in the environment

        I'm willing to be one of your arguments against evolution is that if we evolved from monkeys why are their still monkeys. right? I bet I am. (hint: dogs evolved from wolves. we still have wolves)

        as for how life first did appear, it's thought natural forming lipids provided a means for the assembly of other chemicals and materials that eventually led to unicellular life.

        it's a difficult concept to understand and there are people whose careers are spent studying the phenomena. will we ever know for sure, probably not but then again, maybe we will, one day. because it's based on studying natural processes and working both forwards and backwards to understand nature and evolution.

        as opposed to throwing one's hands up the air and exclaiming, 'goD be doin it'

        but since you like the snarky approach, go ahead and gather up your proof of a god and show it to me. I['ll] get a cup of coffee while you rummage through the universe for it.

        you have every choice not to believe because you ain't gonna find yo goD nowheres

        1. John P Maher's Avatar John P Maher

          AMEN ! FATHER JJ AMEN!!!

        2. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

          Jj

          I appreciate your kind response. Really, usually you come at me pretty hard. Anyway I get the divergence of species and I'm fine with that. That's Darwin's holy Grail and we can see it everywhere. Dogs make dogs. Horses make horses and apple trees make apple trees. Most Christians want proof of an acorn growing an apple tree. They don't understand what you've said to me and what I've learned when I studied the theory.

          My hang-up is listed in a response to Rev BH. It's a heck of a longshot from my angle. To me, it's unbelievable. Maybe because I'm not a gambler, dunno but the odds make it impossible.

          They're calling autogenesis Chemical Evolution. That's one heck of a longshot too. Like a mighty big-un. As we know, humans regularly do what nature can not. If we ever autogenesis some stuff in the lab,it'll be just that, stuff the boys down in the lab made. Our only hope would be to find it happening live in a place off earth. Ten bucks says we blow ourselves up first.

        3. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Sorry JJ, but wrong again. if evolution is factual and we evolved from apes as claimed, then please tell us why there are still apes around? We have almost the same amount of claimed DNA for DOLPHINS as claimed we do for Apes. So using your logic, I can make the same claim about us evolving from Dolphins.

          Or putting it a way even you can understand, an Elephant Shrew is closely related to an Elephant in DNA, so using your explanation, which one evolved from the other?

          1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

            DG, once again you went to 'answers in genesis where science and facts go to die' for your research.

            Apes are still around because apes, and humans, had a common ancestor about 6 million years ago. "Common" ancestor, form which hominids and apes descended from.

            Amount of DNA and similarity in DNA are two different things. Just recently a small plant was found to have the greatest amount of DNA of any living creator, so 'amount' is the wrong way to look at it.

            As for the elephant shrew, it is more closely related to the elephant than shrews because; "...elephant shrews are not, in fact, shrews. Recent evidence suggests that they are more closely related to a group of African mammals that includes elephants, sea cows, and aardvarks." So yeah, no elephants are not closely related to the elephant shrew other than by a coincidental trunk-like nose.

            Clearly you either have no (or very limited) understanding of biology and evolution or you are here simply stating the usual bibble nonsense as a provocateur. Other than being a mammal (and having derived from a land mammal about 50 million years ago) dolphins are not closely related to humans at all

            Humans and chimpanzees and bonobos) share about 98.7% of genes, which shows how closely we are related to them but are very distinct species.

            You might be better off just correcting people on quoting your bibble correctly because so far everything you've written about evolution (and science) has not just been wrong, but stupendously wrong

            1. Thomas P. Davis's Avatar Thomas P. Davis

              It has more to do with the building blocks that God used when he created all the creatures on the planet. The basic building blocks between all living creatures are the same. It is the last few percent that make us what we are. It is like going into grandma's kitchen and see cakes and cookies and pies. They are all different, but they all share flour.

            2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              Once again I am telling you that if you think its factual then show a transitional species or show a peer reviewed test where more then one person in a completely different setting was able to get the same results. Wont hold my breath waiting and you can stop crying to the mods as I will ask the same question over and over till you answer it.

              1. Thomas P. Davis's Avatar Thomas P. Davis

                I am assuming you were responding to someone else because I have no idea what you are talking about.

          2. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

            Divergence of species Daniel.

            You're right about the DNA though. We actually share about 2 percent of DNA with Neanderthal Man, 25 percent with the alligator, 98 percent with a pig. I believe the latter, there's a lot of pigs in pants these days.

            The average thinking man would conclude that we know absolutely nothing about DNA. Nothing.

            Humans alone stand out as the unchallenged champion of evolutionary speed. No life form has made evolutionary leaps with so few generations. In 9.5 years, the average single celled organism has as many generations as 5 million years for humans yet they remain the same over billions of years.

            That's 3.1x10 to the 13th of generations with zero change. Zero.

            They say we've gone from throwing poop to building spaceships in 175000 generations.

            Lol. Ok Boomer.

            1. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

              "The average thinking man would conclude that we know absolutely nothing about DNA. Nothing" He might conclude that, but he would be wrong. These research scientists know quite a bit: Crick, Franklin, Watson, and Wilkins. Check 'em out.

              1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                we have and even they admit that they still do not understand DNA even after they mapped it.

              2. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

                they are still studying DNA and learning, it's what science does. I suspect you think it's like a book and that one just flips the pages to read about this or that. one day, maybe, but so far it's a work in progress. you should offer up your DNA for sequencing, that ought to be interesting

              3. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                so how exactly then can you say its proved science when even the experts in the DNA field clearly state that they are still far and away from knowing about all things DNA?

              4. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

                Rev bh, when the Popes and Bishops of DNA and evolution tell me they're 98% pig and 2% caveman all I can do is laugh.

                When you see a frog, just remember that your got a better DNA match with it than you do a caveman. I'm not sure how well you jump. Im probably closer to a horse than a frog, I'm still pretty dang fast in my 50s but just a little jumpy.

              5. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

                Who are these "Popes and Bishops of DNA"? Where have they told you such things? Please, less silliness and more thoughtful discussion. unless silliness is your point?

              6. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                No less thoughtful then you trying to claim that evolution is fact and yet not showing one crossover species nor accepting the fact that the so called "experts" in DNA freely admit that they still dont know how it works or even if it does work like they want it to.

      2. James Mounts's Avatar James Mounts

        Why is it that today everything must be binary? Why, if I believe life has, and is, evolving do I have to believe it had one particular beginning over another? If God is all powerful and limitless, why constrain Him or Her or It? Whatever method a supreme being chooses to create life--in a mud puddle, in a big bang, from a hand full of dust thrown into a puddle, or all the above--it is His choice and need not make sense to me.

        1. James Riggle-Johnson's Avatar James Riggle-Johnson

          Best answer I’ve seen so far, James. Thank you.

          1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

            Really a brainless answer, sorry. God says he created man end of story. Mathematics and science says there's no evolution, there's only De-volution the exact opposite....Everything is running down, Everything !

            1. James Riggle-Johnson's Avatar James Riggle-Johnson

              God hasn’t said anything with the possible exception of the 10 commandments. Mathematics and science shows there is evolution. Are you taking your facts from the bible?

      3. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

        SOJ, then you can find some god and show it to her. And choice implies choice not forced belief.

        1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

          The trouble is rev BH, I'm comfortable with creation by God as being a belief. I'm also comfortable with evolution being a belief. I haven't found an atheist willing to admit they can't prove their beliefs. They parrot what the radical islamist and Christians say. Not saying a believing atheists aren't out there, just ain't seen one yet.

          Back when I thought I was an atheist I realized both beliefs are impossible, that is creation and evolution.

          Evolution equates to literally millions of simultaneous beneficial mutations shared across thousands of organisms working in concert towards an unknown and unrealized beneficial outcome spanning hundreds of millions of years without interruption of ice ages, polar shifts, global extinction events and so on.

          Humans of course have achieved evolutionary leaps and bounds unlike any other lifeform and we've done them all at break neck speed. You might say miraculous speed. In order to keep us in the animal kingdom we've got to remove our mind from the comparison. For example, the fastest animal is the falcon at 240mph. Humans can and do travel at 25,000 mph. Pretty good, no?

          One might say our abilities are supernatural for we do what can't be found anywhere in nature.

          If you want proof of a creator, if you're willing that is, just look into your own eyes next time you're in front of a mirror. You'll see an amazingly beautiful creation looking at you.

          1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

            SHOJ, your statement below is absolutely wrong:

            "Evolution equates to literally millions of simultaneous beneficial mutations shared across thousands of organisms working in concert towards an unknown and unrealized beneficial outcome spanning hundreds of millions of years without interruption of ice ages, polar shifts, global extinction events and so on."

            The way it works is there is a population of organisms, many genetically similar, some with varying mutations. If there is a significant change in their environment such that it's detrimental to that population, that species could die out.

            However, within that population are members with varying mutations, some of which may allow a small subset of the main population to survive. If they do they now can take over the habitat previously held by the now extinct members that lacked the necessary genetic mutation that allowed others to survive in that changed habitat

            There is NO "working in concert towards an unknown...outcome..." It's ALL accidental, coincidental, happenstance, fortuitous. Evolution isn't necessarily "survival of the fittest" but survival of the luckiest.

            Your understanding of evolution is either limited or flawed, while some of the conclusions in the following book have been changed, I recommend reading John J. Gould's 'It's A Wonderful Life.' He posits that if life could be rewound, the outcome would be very different because of all of the possible changes downstream each time.

            You can argue the origin of life, decree it a fact, a guess or a belief, I really don't care. But the science of evolution is well understood and very much accepted. And the fossilized remains from the Burgess Shale leave no doubt that there were organisms that have no modern representatives; in other words they were extinguished either through competition or predation.

            Through the 5 major extinction events, populations globally were wiped out due to a variety of environmental changes. Just look at the asteroid 66 million years ago that wiped out dinosaurs; the only survivor, birds. With the extinction of the dinosauria it allowed the small shrew-like mammal to not just survive the extinction event but to thrive, vis a vis humans.

            Back to the origins of life: it is STILL easier to believe in natural causes for the origin of life than it is to believe in some supernatural being. So far there has never been a supernatural event that has been proven, to be responsible for anything.

            There are reasons, facts and evidence whether we have them at hand yet or not, that explains (and will explain) all of life's processes. And when unicellular (or more) life is found off earth, that will be all the proof necessary as to its natural origins (well...unless you want to claim your goD has branch offices throughout the galaxy or there are other goDs)

            1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

              Sadly(for some) JJ the bible covers extraterrestrial life already. It exists. It also mentions a cosmic cataclysmic event prior our creation. I'm surprised we haven't found fossils on Mars. Maybe we have. The place looks like the entire atmosphere exploded. Lol, maybe we were survivors from mars. Who knows?

              1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

                Well your right in some ways, there was a cosmic cataclysmic event prior our creation, it was the fall of Satan and a war which destroyed our planet.....Genesis 1:1 and 1:3, in which the world becomes without form and void, or, as the Hebrew says, tohu va bohu

            2. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

              Dr Fr JJ,

              You may think you are funny by the way you spell God, but you are only drawing bad energy on yourself. You are blaspheming - yet calling yourself 'Father.'

              As for your statement: So far there has never been a supernatural event that has been proven, to be responsible for anything.

              ... have you come across the dance of the sun which took place in Fatima on 13 October 1917?

          2. Pamela S. Casteel's Avatar Pamela S. Casteel

            Bravo! Have a Beautiful day! Pam C. Texas

          3. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

            ServantOfJudgement,

            You have just unpacked the mystery of human reason, which proves, by its very nature, the fallacy of the evolution 'dogma' in favor of creationism.

      4. Reverend Paula Copp's Avatar Reverend Paula Copp

        I don’t “need” to believe anything. I see the effects of evolution daily.

        1. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

          DE-evolution, Paula.

    2. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Paula Copp,

      Exactly where do you base your claim that evolution is provable? Were there any eyewitnesses? If none were there, then it is a speculative opinion at best.

      1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

        If you're not there to watch a tree fall in the forest, we still know it fell because there is evidence of it falling. Just because there's no "eyewitness" to evolution, does not mean we do not have evidence of evolution occurring. In fact, there is lots of evidence to support the theory of evolution. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK230201/

        1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

          Michael Hunt,

          You just said it right. These are all theories. The Bible, on the other hand, is a fact!

          https://www.GENESIS.com!!

          1. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

            The bible is a collection of thoughts, opinions and hearsay compiled many years after Jesus' death. Mark: 64–70 AD, Matthew: After 70 AD, Luke: 62–90 AD, John: 90–110 AD. (Moses, a mere man, wrote Genesis. Not god.)

            Similarly, tell me some actual quotes from your great-grandfather. Facts only, please.

            1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

              Rev. BH,

              I must say I'm impressed by your level of lack of education.

              Now, you are certainly free to dismiss biblical accounts, but all archeological scholars will tell you that the Bible is a historical account.

              1. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

                Which archeologists agree with these "historical" statements? - God gets tired on the seventh day - Adam names every animal on earth - Cain gets a wife from out of nowhere - Noah had three sons when he was 500 years old - Millions of animals boarded Noah’s ark on the same day - Moses doesn’t eat food or drink water for 40 days and 40 nights. (just to name a very few)

              2. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                All archeological scholars do not agree that the Bible is a historical account. There may be locations and specific events that are told of in the Bible that did occur, but it's bot believed to be a completely factual accounting.

                The early stories are held to have a historical basis that was reconstructed centuries later, which are supported by archaeological discoveries. In this view, the stories about the biblical patriarchs are believed to be fictional.

          2. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

            The Bible decidedly not fact. The very first chapter, Genesis, has been easily debunked by science. There's no evidence any of the stories in the Bible are true. There aren't other books from the time period that corroborate the stories in the Bible.

            There are, however, plenty of scientific studies that support the theory of evolution. It's a theory because we weren't there to witness it but that doesn't mean it's not based in fact, George.

            1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

              Michael Hunt,

              See my response to Rev BH.

  1. Gary Young's Avatar Gary Young

    Firstly, they've misunderstood the THEORY of evolution. I quote "It bestows upon ‘nature’ both intelligence and supernatural power to select and discern". It does nothing of the sort! Random mutations happen, those that convey an advantage outweigh others therefore proliferate. Also, scientific THEORY is always open to revision based on new information, such is the nature of science. Religion is usually a set of dogmas, beliefs, without objective foundation that are considered immutable. So easily identified as non-scientific.

    1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

      Any and every mutation is lethal

      1. Gary Young's Avatar Gary Young

        You're so funny. Made me laugh, cheers! I guess we're all consumers of negative entropy, but the more we gobble up the faster our degrees of freedom increase, ironically. Every word you've ever read was written by the hands of men. And, only this moment exists, so just be here, not in some fantastic future magical paradise sitting with a bearded bloke for all eternity.

      2. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

        Im a goat herder and have other livestock Mrknowitall, I've come across quite a few mutations with my animals and none of them have ever been beneficial. All mutations have caused death or the inability to breed or feed their offspring.

        I can't find any fault with what you've said.

        1. Gary Young's Avatar Gary Young

          I think I understood you. And agree. Humans constructing theories to explain their experience in their own terms framed in ways they easily understand expecting to achieve anything other than parody to explain now, let alone all the details of history, hilarious! Then promoting it as the only reality! As granny said "there ain't nowt as queer as folk". Every secret revealed exposes our profound ignorance, inspiring thousands of new questions and new theories. Their billiard board universe with evolution as gospel? I agree, I'll take it with a pinch of salt.

  1. Gerardo Salazar's Avatar Gerardo Salazar

    A friend of mine, a Jesuit priest who was also a geneticist, was giving an interview in his lab and when the interviewer asked him if his research would be akin to playing God his answer was, and I will never forget, that they were discussing Science but if she wanted to talk religion he would be happy to remove his white coat, across the street, change into his black clothes and then they could start. His point was that you don’t mix religion with Science. Evolution is well beyond being a mere theory and there’s ample proof of this fact. People are afraid of losing their faith by asking questions because they’re afraid of the answer. I do believe in God, our Creator, but really don’t care how He did it and each new scientific discovery is proof enough for me of His magnificence.

    1. Therese M. Boehlert's Avatar Therese M. Boehlert

      Ok, so even if humans evolved, it was because of God's creation.

  1. Colleen McAllister's Avatar Colleen McAllister

    Evolution is not religion. Evolution is a more detailed explanation of how God created. The order in which everything was created - or evolved - matches up. I find it much harder to believe that such a universe as we live in just "happened" to come into being with no intelligence behind it. Too bad the couple has such weak faith that simple science threatens them.

    1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

      Colleen,

      You've combined two religions.

      Evolution is self creating life from non living materials. Because it will never be proven, it must be believed.

      1. Asa William Sprague, II's Avatar Asa William Sprague, II

        Not really. The theory of evolution only deals with how life forms change and diversify over time in correlation to their environment. It does not address where life came from originally.

        The scientific theory that living matter sprang from non-living matter is called"Abiogenesis" and it is not widely accepted as valid.

        1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

          Not really and your wrong, at the end of the day evolution says we came from a rock and primordial soup....It's so stupid its scary. Yes there is micro evolution which is entirely different.

          1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

            Evolution does not say we came from a rock. That's patently false.

            1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

              Mr hunt,

              Dust melted into a planetary rock, erosion of rock produces a suspension of minerals and chemicals. Those chemicals evolved into a self replicating lifeform with a better than flawless code copy system written by itself before it knew it needed to be written.

              Life came from rock=chemical evolution=evolution.

              1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                Thanks for the correction. You're right, we did come from the minerals and chemicals that would have come from inorganic materials.

                I still take exception to Mrknowitall's oversimplification as a means to discredit evolution. I mean, we know we are carbon based lifeforms and many minerals and metals are naturally found in our bodies.

    2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      Sorry Colleen, but it is. There is no such things as a "crossover" species so according to the US Supreme Courts decision on Atheism being a religion, if you have no proof that something exists you take it on faith, and the main basis of a religion is you have faith in it.

      1. Asa William Sprague, II's Avatar Asa William Sprague, II

        Dictionary Definition

        Religion re·li·gion (/rəˈlij(ə)n/)

        the belief in and worship of a superhuman power or powers, especially a God or gods

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          which fits your THEORY of evolution perfectly

          1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

            What about evolution is the worship of a superhuman power?

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              the fact that you seem to think that nature can do this. If you think evolution is fact then please come along and take an animal and evolve it to a higher level. I wont hold my breath waiting as it has never been done thus not proving anything other then evolution is a theory and a religion.

              1. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

                For those of you who read beyond the bible, much researched info. Check it out. (Evolution extremely slow, but happening all the time.)

                https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/faq/cat06.html#:~:text=Even%20though%20evolution%20is%20taking,witness%20in%20a%20human%20lifetime.

              2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                yea right nice try but nothing PBS has claimed has been validated or peer reviewed..

                Next?

              3. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

                Next? OK: neither has anything you've ever said here.

              4. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                Um sorry but it has as I am taking the information I posted here directly from science and NASA and NOAA. Do try again

              5. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

                What do NASA and NOAA have to do with the science of evolution? Some quotes and references, please.

              6. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                Evolution occurs over millions of years, not days, in most species. We can, however, see evolution in things like the flu virus which evolves every year and requires us to change our vaccines.

              7. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                And if it happens over millions of years, then who is there to prove it actually happened in the first place. Hence its called a THEORY and not based on observable fact

    3. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Colleen McAllister,

      I'm sorry but the tenets of evolution are not factually compatible with the Bible. They do not explain the deep questions of human existence, let alone the existence of evil.

      One can try to combine them, but as with Cathilcs, one side will eventually have to give in. Why should I believe in a benevolent God who allows evil?

      Only the Bible can answer this consistently.

  1. Najah P Tamargo's Avatar Najah P Tamargo

    Najah Tamargo-USA

    This is a very old fight. If a child is to receive a FULL education, they need to know both sides of the story, and be able to decide, independently, what THEY believe. If parents don't want their children to study, science, world history etc., they should send their kids to a parochial school of their denomination. This is NOT an issue that belongs in the court room! Remember "separation of church and state?"

    1. Thomas P. Davis's Avatar Thomas P. Davis

      The chances of them teaching both views are slim. Those that control the system know that given the evidence, Creationism will win out and that is not what they desire.

      1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

        We have evidence of the earth being trillions of years old, disproving the creationist belief that the earth is merely a few thousand years old.

        1. Thomas P. Davis's Avatar Thomas P. Davis

          The only difference is those that believe it is not, far outweigh those that believe it is.

          1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

            Everyone once believed that the Earth was the center of the universe. Galileo was condemned to death for correctly believing that the sun was the center of our solar system. Just because x number of people believe something doesn't make it true. Plus only about 32% of the global population is Christian meaning 68% believe in something other than Creationism. In America, about 40% of the population believes in Creationism. That's far from outweighing those that believe in evolution.

            1. Thomas P. Davis's Avatar Thomas P. Davis

              As you correctly quoted " Just because x number of people believe something doesn't make it true." Just because a few people promote evolution, it does not make it true. I watched a program from an Atheist professor years ago. Explaining all the facts that show creation and not evolution. If I had the time, I would look for it. Because he showed quotes from books from three evolutionists, and they all said the same thing. Darwin was one of them. His comment was" if he would say that we were created, then he would have to say that there is a supreme being that he will eventually have to answer to. Then he would need to change the way he was living, and I don't want to change the way I live.

              1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                Except that a lot of scientific experts have evidence and data that supports evolutionary theory. It's not a belief based on blind faith.

              2. Thomas P. Davis's Avatar Thomas P. Davis

                One other big difference is in that so called scientific world you refer to; matter can only come from matter. It can change state, but it still comes from matter. In creation matter came from nothing. Reminds of the story where the devil told the Lord that he too could create man. The Lord agreed. The devil knelt down and started to form man from the dirt. The Lord responded no, get your own dirt.

        2. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

          We do not we have no idea 10,000 or 10 mill

          1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

            Actually we do have a good idea of how old the Earth is within about 50 million years. I was wrong about the Earth being trillions of years old as science has indicated its approximately 4.5 billion years. https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/how-did-scientists-calculate-age-earth/

        3. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

          Hardly so Michael. The bible supports any age you plug in. If you say the earth is 38 squintillion years old, the bible doesn't have a problem with it.

          Billion, trillion, squintillion, doesn't matter.

          1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

            ServantOfJudgement,

            It does. On 2 October we celebrate Rosh Hashanah 5785, which is the biblical new year!

        4. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

          Michael Hunt,

          Do speculative leads constitute evidence?

    2. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Najah P Tamargo,

      I agree with teaching both versions, but Genesis records history and Evolution is a scientific opinion.

      That would be fairly objective.

  1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

    Just one more silly, stupid attempt by the kkkristofascists to try and get their religion into schools

    Intelligent Design was laughed out of the classroom...it was just 'goD' but wearing funny glasses, big nose and mustache

    I think the biggest shame is on the part of the lawyers who now better, unless they're kkkris chins, in which they too operate at a stunning high level of cognitive dissonance

    Back to the defendants; they are either so stupid as to have literally no idea of what science is or, they are falsifying a complaint to try and keep science out of schools...thereby dumbing down public education to a level that suits and pleases them

    And some here wonder why others of us here hold those people in such disdain. Trying to convince the court that science is religion...that atheism is a religion...it's like saying Bald is a Hair Color

    la mamma dei cretini e sempre incinta

    1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

      Upon further research I discovered that the Reinoehl famiy filed the complaint on their own, sans lawyers, which makes more sense now. Furthermore, the family has a bit of a history of filing complaints vis a vis krispy kream

      It's not stated anywhere but either they have a lawyer friend assisting them in filing complaints or they're using some form of AI...which is about all one could expect from this family

  1. John P Maher's Avatar John P Maher

    WELL I SEE EVOLUTION EVERYWHERE every day, HUMAN and ANIMAL and PLANT, THE CHRISTIANS SEE GOD EVERYWHERE, I HAVE NEVER SEEN or HEARD " GO D " ONLY EVOLVED HUMANS TALKING of "GOD" ENDLESSLY ITS ALL" B S "

    1. ServantOfJudgement's Avatar ServantOfJudgement

      Evolution takes millions of years, exactly how old are you?

  1. Rev. Carol M Anaski-Figurski's Avatar Rev. Carol M Anaski-Figurski

    The judge is right evolution is not religion & atheist is not religion. ULC guide to divinity copywrite 2016 pg4. " atheistism is not a religion any more than bald is a haircolor."

    1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Rev. Carol M Anaski-Figurski,

      Atheism, Humanism, Deism, and Agnosticism are all philosophies about a flawed understanding of God.

  1. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

    "Many leading evolutionists have recognized the essentially 'religious' character of evolutionism ... That quoted paragraph under "Science of Faith" above, is well written, convincing, but tricky. Mainly, a play on the word "believe". As in science believes in evolution, therefore its only a belief, aka a religion. Had it been stated scientists accept evolution, (as they do), the whole paragraph falls apart. Saying I believe in love, does not make love a religion. Saying I believe in being nice, does not make niceness a religion. A nice try, but tricky lawsuit, yet silly.

    1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

      From the lawsuit:

      “Evolution is a non-scientific belief, made in opposition to the known, tested, and observed laws of science. It bestows upon ‘nature’ both intelligence and supernatural power to select and discern one animal from another. Evolution is inherently a religious origin myth, argument, or assertion that falls outside the realm of science. It is neither scientific nor a testable theory in the scientific sense.”

      This paragraph clearly shows the limp and willfully ignorant attempt to define evolution, science and the scientific method. This was never a 'tricky lawsuit', just another lame attempt by the kkkristofascist agenda task force trying yet another method to get their nonsensical beliefs accepted and included in public school curiculum

  1. Alan Jones's Avatar Alan Jones

    I think that there is a danger of confusing Science with Belief.

    People can believe what the scientific process reveals as testable, verifiable and current hypotheses and theories.

    People can believe in their subjective experiences and “revealed truths” which need not be testable or verifiable.

    I have faith in the scientific method but my personal beliefs may include ideas that I know are outside the remit of science.

    The material world is the realm of science, the spiritual is the realm of experience, One realm is objective and measurable - the other is subjective and may or may not be open to scientific scrutiny.

    Heaven forbid we end up in a situation where beliefs need to be open to laboratory testing.

    Science is Science with objective methodology, Faith is Faith with subjective, personal relevance.

    Alan /|\

    1. Bruce Kevin Jones's Avatar Bruce Kevin Jones

      I wish you would not combine things. "Faith" is hoping something is true. "Belief" is knowing it is true. Please do stop confusing that the two are interchangeable, they are NOT. Faith is flimsy, Belief is solid, like a fact. That is the difference. Yes both are used as the ideology behind most religions. faith is usually used all the time, belief is more difficult to manifest in example because it has to do with what you feel inside to know it to be true. faith you hear it is true, Belief you know it is true!

      1. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

        "Faith" is hoping something is true." Granted "Belief" is knowing it is true." No. If I sincerely believe in Bigfoot, ghosts, the Loch Ness monster, or the moon as green cheese, it does not make these things true.

    2. James C Clements's Avatar James C Clements

      You have my vote!

  1. Robert Gagnon's Avatar Robert Gagnon

    Iv'e always heard it called Darwin's theory of evolution. A theory is not a religion, although someone could use a theory as a base for a religion. But then it would be referred to as the church or religion of evolution. Daughter Sarah will just have to suffer through these lessons and bear the brunt of the same information every other kid learns in school.

    1. James Mounts's Avatar James Mounts

      Until you can show me God, religion will remain a theory, no more or less valid than any other.

      1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

        while I agree, you appear to misunderstand how 'theory' is used in science. evolution as a theory is an explanation of how some natural activity works. from the american museum of natural history:

        "A theory is a well-substantiated explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can incorporate laws, hypotheses and facts."

        so while a theory can be proved, it can also be disproved, or modified as new or different results are discovered or identified. while there have been changes made to the theory of evolution since darwin, essential and new mechanisms having been discovered, it never changed the direction of what darwin set about to explain; how one organism changes into another.

        so NO, religion is NOT a theory, it is a set of beliefs, unproven and unproveable that relies not on studies, or measurements or observations but instead on statements that claim to be inerrant, unchanging and more importantly, unchallengeable. religion is literally the opposite of a theory or science

        1. James Mounts's Avatar James Mounts

          Rev. Dr. Father JJ - from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language the·o·ry (thēə-rē, thîrē) Share: Tweet 1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena. If you don't think Christianity fits this description, then you don't think.

          1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

            don't be insulting now, I certainly wasn't being.

            how does one go about repeatedly testing religion? you can't! there is nothing to test, much less repeatedly.

            and there is literally nothing about or in kkkrisinsanity that explains ANY natural phenomenon, it all claims to be the result of some supernatural being, and that can not be tested.

            religion is presented as fact, with evidence supporting it provided by the religion. it's tautological, unprovable and simply made up.

            SCIENCE on the hand is built upon, provided by and defended with evidence, proof. other scientists can test using the same techniques, or trials, or evidence and reach the same conclusion.

            also, science can change due to new evidence, new testing, new methodologies, creating an even truer, more robust conclusion. religion does none of that. it exists in a vacuum as originally presented and disallows no change, no variation, no testing of data or facts. it's make-believe, not factual

            1. James Mounts's Avatar James Mounts

              Father JJ, please accept my apology, My comment was meant as an aside of humor. Apparently it did not succeed. In a nutshell, you seem to be saying that religion is not theory because it is made up and not true while science is based on truth. If that is so, then please explain to me what existed before the big bang. I am not defending one or the other, i am simply saying both are guesses.

              1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                They may both be guesses, but we have evidentiary data that we can use to better inform our guess as to how the big bang occurred and what came before. Additionally, we can perform various tests to see what theories hold up and which do not. We don't have the same ability with religion.

              2. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

                Michael Hunt,

                For the Bible we have eyewitnesses. Do you have eyewitnesses for the Big Bang?

              3. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                Eyewitnesses are not always credible. We have scientific data and findings that support and influence our belief in the theory of evolution.

              4. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

                Michael Hunt,

                You said it: influence!

                That isn't the same as recorded history!

              5. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

                James, no harm no foul, I misread. we're good.

                religion does not meet the definition of 'theory' as it's used in science.

                there is no way to know, period, what was, before the big bang. physicists propose some ideas but there is no way to know what existed before our universe existed.

                it's like another argument here trying to determine how the first living organism appeared. we don't know but scientists, based on present evidence and experimentation suggests a few possible ways. it may be impossible to say for sure unless microscopic life is found elsewhere (in a habitat with both the living and the precursor)

                however, accepting (as we all do) that life, once it began, began to evolve (even that may have taken a billion years to happen, no one is sure).

                one recent thought is that it may be necessary for a planet to have tectonic activity, which disrupts the static, stagnant (so to speak) environments and forces microbes to change, or evolve to adapt to the new environment

                circling back to the big bang, for anyone to state what was, before the big bang is indeed a guess.but science is not predicated on knowing that, only what happened after the big bang. so yeah, pre-big bang, guess but unimportant.

                as for religion and goD, pure guess work all the way. simply no facts to verify or prove goD exists. so while asking what was there before there was a universe is unknowable other than it led to our universe. whereas people today still believe in a goD that is purely made up

              6. James Mounts's Avatar James Mounts

                Father JJ. OK, I give up. You are correct, the religion of science is far superior.

              7. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                Well science isn't a religion so...

              8. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

                Michael Hunt,

                You guys certainly treat it as dogma, though, when dogma it is not!

            2. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

              Rev. Dr. Father JJ,

              I'm afraid it will be too late when you realize you're wrong.

              Eternity is a very long time... I wouldn't want to spend in the company of Satan!

  1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

    I was a bit interested until I read "And Evolution says we "evolved" from Apes. Ok then why are there still apes?' We evolved from a common ancestor and are closely related to chimps and bonobos, sharing about 98.7% DNA.

    It is thought that around 200,000 to 300,000 years ago Homo sapiens branched off from the great apes. And here we are, and here the apes are.

    There are intermediate forms not just of Homo sapiens but of horses, hippos, dinosaurs to birds, and many other. the old saw that there are no intermediate examples is another badly built ruse by the kkkristofascists to deny science and scientific facts and instead reserve the claim of truth to their silly 6000 year old, 7 days-a-making, flat earth nonsense.

    Canis familiaris descended from a gray wolf ancestor, DNA shows about a 99% similarity. in other words we are in effect WATCHING Canis familiaris change from a wolf to a wolf-like dog and eventually to a separate species. there are changes in the jaws of dogs that differ distinctly from those of wolfs. and this was long before people started selective breeding for mini-poodles and dachshunds. human dog (and chicken) breeding mimic a bit of how nature works. and how evolution works.

    since everything you wrote was without a doubt Ctrl/C directly from that stupid answers in genesis website. you're just repeating the same old incorrect and intentionally misleading tripe without the knowledge that backs up the actual science.

    why do you people insist that your pretend religion and clown god is real but nature, natural science and evolution is false? that desperate to force-feed your religious beliefs down the world's throat?

    Oh and BTW, according to the US Supreme Court (I googled it you know) atheism are NOT religions, it is another one of those specious arguments you and your ilk like to promulgate.

    "The Supreme Court has recognized atheism as equivalent to a “religion” for purposes of the First Amendment on numerous occasions, most recently in McCreary County, Ky. v. American Civil Liberties Union of Ky., 545U.S. 844, 125 S.Ct. 2722, 162 L.Ed.2d 729 (2005).   The Establishment Clause itself says only that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,” but the Court understands the reference to religion to include what it often calls “nonreligion.” "

    and further:

    "...the Court has unambiguously concluded that the individual freedom of conscience protected by the First Amendment embraces the right to select any religious faith or none at all.

    Id. at 52-53, 105 S.Ct. 2479.   In keeping with this idea, the Court has adopted a broad definition of “religion” that includes non-theistic and atheistic beliefs, as well as theistic ones.   Thus, in Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488, 81 S.Ct. 1680, 6 L.Ed.2d 982, it said that a state cannot “pass laws or impose requirements which aid all religions as against non-believers, and neither can [it] aid those religions based on a belief in the existence of God as against those religions founded on different beliefs.”

    re: chaplaincy in the military, you're conflating two issues; one that a chaplain has to be from a religious organization and two; being allowed to perform chaplain duty in the military as an atheist means atheism is a religion.

    chaplaincy is about tending to the emotional needs of military members whether it's an extension of an established ('recognized' (see: The Satanic Temple TST) religion or simple as an outreach from a humanist organization that can achieve the same (or better, really) goal(s).

    so the supremes did not recognize atheism as a religion but rather recognized that atheists can be refused chaplaincy simply because the are atheists, therefore for this purpose (as well as others) the court recognized that they are similar in how the law seems them.

    now why would you believe that because a family can request a grave marker that signifies the deceased's belief in something other than religion that it means the SC has declared it a religion? you appear to not be reading between the lines but rather, skipping lines as it suits your argument.

    so everything you wrote (to which I am responding to) i unequivocally wrong, misinformed, misleading or intentionally applied to try and prove something 'special' about your religion

    1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      Yea sure JJ, and again we have almost as many DNA as a Dolphin. So are you now going to try and tell us we evolved from a Dolphin?

      1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

        DG obviously you are mixing up DNA with chromosomes. What I clearly said is that dolphins descended from a group that now includes manatees and aardvarks. Why do you keep insisting that (someone said) humans evolved from dolphins?

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          No JJ it seems you are the one that is desperately trying to cloud the issue. I clearly gave the link that shows we have almost the same amount of DNA as a dolphin, you are just too scared to admit it as it blows your whole claim out of the water so to speak.

      2. Bruce Kevin Jones's Avatar Bruce Kevin Jones

        Chromosomes, we nearly are identical to 7% of the Species on Earth through Chromosomes, Deoxyribonucleac Acid is a different coding altogether Most Rna does not jump species unless Fauci helps it along.

        Chromosomes are nearly identical but DNA is drastically different, one species to the next.

        but umm I have to say this since no Mastadons are walking around with elephants, and no giant killer whate sized Cretaceous Dolphins swim around at Sea World either. So if therte are Monkeys why do you want to believe we are descended from them? No Mastadons, No giant Dolphins...! Humans are NOT descended from Monkeys, but for a different reason that you are ignoring its blatant presence. We are NOT descended from Monkeys.

        here is why: Monkeys lack a soul, Humans have a soul. We are descended through Evolution of the SPIRIT, our physical bodies are almost like everything else except HUMANS HAVE A SOUL AND MONKEYS DON'T!

        So similar to;yes, but evolved from; no. We are Evolved from a completely different being than monkeys!

        1. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

          BKJ, "Humans have a soul and monkeys don't!" 1. Prove to me humans have a soul. 2. Prove to me monkeys don't.

          "We are evolved from a completely different being than monkeys!" Very interesting. Who or what, pray tell?

        2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          No JJ, FACT!

        3. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

          Bruce Kevin Jones,

          That animals do not have a soul is Catholic nonsense.

          Anima = soul Animale = soul bearer

          Go figure!

    2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      really? sort of like you claiming that birds evolved from Dinosaurs when even experts in the field no say that is utter BS.

      1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

        Except experts in the field do say that some birds came from some dinosaurs. https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-birds-evolved-from-dinosaurs-20150602/

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          crocodiles, snakes, lizards, alligators etc are all descended from Dinosaurs. Birds are not. Dinosaurs have scales, birds have feathers. Two completely different things. Just remember that we have snakes that can actually absorb oxygen from the water and yet still have lungs, but that does not make them a fish no matter how hard they try to say so.

          1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

            So the scientists who study dinosaurs and evolution are wrong about birds coming from dinos and you're right? Classic appeal to false authority.

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              These are the same "experts" who took a pigs tooth and a monkey skull and then tried to claim it was a human (Nebraska Man)? You mean these so called "experts"? The same ones who "found" the Piltdown Man which later turned out to be a fraud and turned out to be a human skull and a monkeys jaw? Oh and BTW this was done by Darwin himself. Or should we listen to the experts who claimed that species died out and yet had to eat crow when the self same species popped up?

              Yea right. So lets keep looking at the myths and lies they are trying to pass off as fact and then have to change it all when its proved they are wrong.

              1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                Your examples are 2 cases over 100 years old. Two bad scientists do not discredit the profession as a whole. Science learns and changes when new information becomes available.

              2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                You want more examples? ok

                Dr.T.N.Tahmisian, Atomic Energy Commission Scientists who go about teaching that evolution is a fact of life are great con-men"

                “We must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical or cellular system, only a variety of wishful speculations.” — Franklin Harold, Emeritus Professor of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology at Colorado State University"

                Evolutionists have yet to explain how an amoeba evolved into a Human nor how grunting developed into a written and spoken language.

                All citations are to Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species (New York: NAL Penguin Inc., 1958 in short the following disproves evolution and this is by Darwin himself. 1. The Complexity of Eyes p168 2. Existence of Similar Organs in Remotely Allied Species p176 3. Existence of Different Organs for the Same Function in Closely Allied Species p178-180 4. Parts with Little Importance p181 5. Complex Instincts p228 6. Neuter Ants and Their Different Castes p250-253 7. The Eyes of the Flat-Fish p209-211 and 222-223 8. Absence of any Transitional Forms in the Fossil Record p227/335-336/431 9. Absence of any Transitional Forms Even Within Particular Geological Formations p298/304-305

                And the most damning of all against evolution 10. Sudden Appearance of New Forms of Life p305/310

                Now how can I quote you this if I have not read this fake book?

      2. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

        Not me claiming, evolutionary scientists agree that birds are living descendant of therapods. And please STOP using incorrect answers in geneisis, they are wrong and you are too

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Sorry JJ, its been proved that birds did not "evolve" from Dinosaurs. and the links I give clearly show they did not come from Genesis.

  1. Donald Michael Woodward's Avatar Donald Michael Woodward

    Scientific testing has not produced the needed evidence to explain how life itself began. We cannot create life, and evolution only shows the historical descent of a life form, not the mechanism by which this is accomplished, such as natural selection. It is possible that evolution was the method chosen by God to ensure the continuation and development of life.

  1. Wayne M. Delia's Avatar Wayne M. Delia

    Atheism is certainly a religion. I use my house as an atheist church. But when I apply to the IRS for my religious property and income tax exemptions, they seem to think I'm Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, for some reason, and they deny my rightful exemption. Am I being religiously persecuted?

    1. Farajallah Michael Yazbek's Avatar Farajallah Michael Yazbek

      Are you aware that atheists recognize God? You must mean you're an agnostic. There's a difference. Agnostics don't believe there is a god. Atheists don't believe in any god, but don't deny the existence of a god. I prefer to believe in one God, Jehovah, and in his son, who became man so man could be more like God. I would rather believe there IS God and be wrong than not believe there is a god and be wrong. I lose nothing. However, atheists and agnostics, if you're wrong, lose everything.

      1. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

        You got it backwards: "an agnostic doesn't believe it's possible to know for sure if a god exists, while an atheist doesn't believe in a god's existence"

    2. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Wayne M. Delia,

      No, you're an attempted 'tax evasionist,' which is fundamentally different and fraudulent :-)

  1. Rev. Michelle Love's Avatar Rev. Michelle Love

    Religion is defined as "the belief in and worship of a superhuman power or powers, especially a God or gods."

    Atheism is defined as "a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a God or any gods."

    Darwinism is defined as being "the theory of the evolution of species by natural selection advanced by Charles Darwin."

    With all that being said, I believe the judge was correct in his decision because atheism is not a religion and Darwinism is merely a theory.

  1. Geoffrey C. Olive's Avatar Geoffrey C. Olive

    Atheism has only one “belief” - that there are no gods! There are literally hundreds or more religions with one or to many different gods that claim they are right with no supporting scientifically acceptable evidence! Even christianity has more than one in god the father, god the son, and god the holy ghost (whatever that is?👻) The most logical argument is no god or gods! Until someone genuinely comes back from being dead to prove it one way or another, humanity will never know!

    1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Geoffrey C. Olive,

      With due respect, if you want to argue against Christianity, at least research its accuracy.

      The Trinity is one God, not three. And Jesus did come back from the dead.

  1. Ari Joseph Bertine's Avatar Ari Joseph Bertine

    No. This is absurd. Science is not a religion. And one need not be an atheist to understand how scientific method and empirical studies work. There are plenty of religious people, even Christians, who can separate religious beliefs, lore, metaphorical lessons, and how the physical world actually works.

    Heck, the Bible even drops a major hint about not taking its timeline literally right in there! "One day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like one day" to this deity, meaning that time is utterly meaningless to him. Nowhere does it say that everything was created instantly and fully formed, in a sudden poof. It boggles me that people who can believe in an omnipotent god think that designing evolution is beyond him.

    1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

      You are quoting scripture like you understand the context and scope. God created time and so he lives and waits in it with us......All life forms have to be fully functional at one time or they Die, that's a scientific fact !

  1. Michael Burton's Avatar Michael Burton

    Change the mandate to teaching paleontology and let people reach thoer own conculsions.

  1. Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson's Avatar Ealdormon Piparskeggr Robinson

    I think Gregor Mendel would have a different view than the plaintiffs.

    1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

      would he, or they, appreciate the irony?

  1. Aaron Shayda's Avatar Aaron Shayda

    Evolution is not a religion. Why do people believe that religion and evolution can’t co-exist? I believe that schools should teach reading, writing and math but that’s it. Tax dollars shouldn’t be wasted on anything controversial in schools.

    Beyond that, it should be up to the parents to teach. Parents need to up their game. This is what you signed on for having kids.

    I don’t see why God creating humans isn’t in line with the theory of evolution. God maybe created evolution to allow humans to adapt to climates, food sources, diseases, etc. All part of the BiG plan. So what if we started as apes. We evolved into his likeness as he planned.

    1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Hi Aaron,

      You quote:

      Evolution is not a religion. Why do people believe that religion and evolution can’t co-exist?

      Because the Bible proves it wrong. Evolution isn't possible without death. But death is the outcome of sin.

  1. Charles Paul Biederman's Avatar Charles Paul Biederman

    Evolution is not a religion it is science GOD created all things

  1. Steven Ferrell's Avatar Steven Ferrell

    The couple is correct, it is teaching a religion against God.
    If one is taught, then Creation should also be taught.

    For those who wish to think they came from monkeys, you probably did. I believe the Bible and that God made man and woman and that is where I came from.

    I have been to and taken part in 5 autopsies and I can say after seeing the insides of a person, after hold a brain, a heart, lungs, etc. in my hands, these bodies did not just happen.

    1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

      Steven, creationism is fake science and is simply the bibble dressed differently.

      We didn't so much come from monkeys as from a common ancestor. Which is why monkeys are still here with us, many in fact here in ULC denying their evolutionary path.

      I'm sure your last sentence wows a lot of people but come one, man, you held body parts, so what. Based on what (and how) you've written I have to assume your knowledge of how all those parts work, and how they developed and evolved is still a mystery to you.

      As for where you came from, that would be the incestuous relationships between Noah, Mrs. Noah their children, nieces, nephews, grandchildren etc, all cross-breeding with each other like, well so many incestuous monkeys, from whom you descended

      1. Bruce Kevin Jones's Avatar Bruce Kevin Jones

        Actually you are completely wrong since none of the other original genus are still alive in other 'species' family trees.

        Are there any Mastodons walking around with Elephants, or maybe some Wholly Rinos bouncing around with other Rino?

        . and both of us know Darwin plagiarized an underclassman's idea and he did not invent 'evolution' this was why he could not explain it. He got back from his trip on the Beagle with nothing to show for the trip and happened upon an undergraduate that wanted top publish a paper. But being the underclassman was NOT a tenured professor like Darwin it was unlikely anyone would take stock in the Evolution idea, So we both know Darwin put his name on the paper and used the findings from the Beagle expedition nowe that a scientist made use of the samples Darwin brought back but could not figure out why they seemed connected.

        anyway Yes we are descended from Monkeys and that is why there are no monkeys any more because we evolved. No Mastadons either or whollt Rinocerous, only the moren versions NONE of the originals.

        Now to be obvious but to postulate that Monkeys are not our ancestors, we developed differently than from apes. animals on earth all have evolved bodies, and a spirit that quickly dissipates after death, unless the animal evolved slightly to linger.

        human ghosts can linger longer, about two hundred years through parapsychology examples, but that is because humans evolved a soul, Monkeys don't HAVE one. only ONE other being has a Soul. we are evolved from THAT being, not Monkeys that don't HAVE a soul!

        this is why there are Monkeys, because Humans are NOT descended from them.

        1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

          monkeys and homo sapiens came from a common ancestor about 9 million years ago. from that common ancestor one off shoot developed into the ape line (of which chimps are part of) and the other line into the hominids. from those later came what we know as chimps and ape etc and what became Homo sapiens ----> humans.

          as for ghosts and spirits and goblins, give it a rest. you're talking in a nonsense realm now

          1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

            Yea right JJ, and you can prove that your claim of ghosts are a myth? please do as you will have done something that nobody in Human history has been able to prove.

          2. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

            Daniel Gray and George Day - you names are quite similar as are your "contributions". Might you be the same person taking up too much space here? Just curious.

            Father JJ - combatting nonsense is apparently impossible. But necessary.

            1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

              Rev. BH,

              This is just more nonsense coming from you!

              Daniel Gray, back me up!

          3. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

            Rev. Dr. Father JJ,

            Homosapiens = homosexual...

            There you go. Do as you feel = evolution!

        2. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

          Bruce Kevin Jones,

          Even Pope Francis said animals have a soul, and the Bibe clearly describes animals in heaven - as do many reported apparitions of Mother Mary.

          Who are you to say that animals don't have a soul?

          This is not a theological dogma.

  1. Thomas J Kasprik's Avatar Thomas J Kasprik

    Everyone is born Atheist Teaching a child faith based on one religion is indoctrination

    It took me years to unlearn religion

  1. Ronaldo's Avatar Ronaldo

    After reading this and similar articles, and some of the comments on them, I have come to the conclusion that very few have actually read Darwin's works on evolution. A lot of claims about what he said are flat out wrong. His books never said man evolved from apes or monkeys, nor did they ever state how life began, but these statements are often assigned to him, with some demanding proof of such from those who believe in the evolutionary theories.

  1. Geoffrey C. Olive's Avatar Geoffrey C. Olive

    Atheism has only one “belief” - that there are no gods! There are literally hundreds or more religions with one or to many different gods that claim they are right with no supporting scientifically acceptable evidence! Even christianity has more than one in god the father, god the son, and god the holy ghost (whatever that is?👻) The most logical argument is no god or gods! Until someone genuinely comes back from being dead to prove it one way or another, humanity will never know!

  1. Freddie Lee Cosgrove III's Avatar Freddie Lee Cosgrove III

    This is insanity. This legal action should have been rejected when it was presented to the court. How long ago was the Scopes trial ? Does no one rememeber that the issue of belief vs and faith, versus science and inquiry, was discussed then, with a decisive outcome and tremendous fallout?

    It takes nothing to have a belief. Anyone can awaken with a belief, inspired by a dream. No one is harmed, in being expeosed to facts. We are all supposed to use our intellect to reason; consider facts and determine whether we belive them to be true or false.

    I understand the value of faith to many people. Faith and belief are powerful tools for many people in coping with the realities of life. Realities of life exist. If somone does not pay their rent for long enough, they violate the terms of their lease, and barring an intercession of funds from some benefactor, they will be evicted. An infected wound will fester and worsen, unless there is some intervention. Loss of control of a car, is likely to result in some degree of collision. An organism deprived of nutrients and water, will eventually starve and die. These are all realities. Faith can help to hope there is relief to them, but they remain real.

    Anyone can have a belief about anything. That is one of the delights to belief, there are no boundaries. There is nothing to restrain belief, unlike reality. Anyone is free to choose what to believe, and some of their choices may result in their injury or death. It has happened.

    Evolution exists, it is real. DNA is present in a rat and in humans. We may not fully understand the mechanisms of evolution, but just as we generally understand the mechanisms of the earth's rotation, we generally understand the process of evolution. If someone chooses not to believe, that's fine, but the state or any other body, has not harmed them, by having intruded on their belief.

    Just because someone chooses to have an alternative belief, does not allow them to penalize society for their choice.

    1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

      Macro evolution exists...Micro evolution does not, there is a Yuge difference !

      1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

        microevolution most certainly does exist, a good example is cockroaches becoming resistant to certain pesticides, along with plants resistant to herbicides and bacteria resistant to antibiotics.

        or are you mixing up the two?

        in which cast then, you would still be wrong

        1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

          That's not the dumbest thing I ever heard but its up there and you know nothing about Bactria, It becomes resistant because it loses info, it never gains.....Next

    2. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Freddie Lee Cosgrove III,

      DNA does not prove evolution.

  1. Paul C Holsombeck's Avatar Paul C Holsombeck

    Evolution is not a religion, it is a scientific theory. It changes and expands as human knowledge and understanding change and expand. It lacks dogma and a creation myth. Atheism on the other hand is certainly a religion, having a creation myth and using various scientific theories as its dogma.

    1. Geoffrey C. Olive's Avatar Geoffrey C. Olive

      Atheism is not a religion any more than not believing that fairies live at the end of the garden! It’s just means not believing in any religion! I don’t believe the lies of Trump! That’s not a religion either! Why does anyone try to make the term mean something it isn’t?

  1. Deborah Jean Frankum Perkins's Avatar Deborah Jean Frankum Perkins

    It is a Scientific Fact! IF SOMEONE DECIDES IT IS A RELIGION SO BE IT. Both

    1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

      Your delusional, there is a scientific observable law called the Second Law of Thermodynamics. There is no Evolution...Fact is there is only De-volution !

      1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

        so why are organisms evolving? over millions of years of humans evolved, from small, tree climbing monkey-like mammals to the upright Homo sapiens. but according to you there is only de-volution so shouldn't we not be here at all? shouldn't there be no mammals, no birds, no dinosaurs, just everything de-volved back into pond scum. I mean, according to you

        1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

          We’re here because of modern medicine, we’re not smarter we just know more. Nothing evolves, nothing. The I can’t teach you everything but the second law of thermodynamics, you can’t avoid it and you can’t pretend it’s not there.

          1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

            You're applying the second law of thermodynamics incorrectly by assuming Earth exists in a closed system despite it not being a closed system due to the Sun providing energy to the Earth.

        2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          So where are they JJ? No scientist has ever been able to prove your claim. So if you can do it you would wint a major prize as nobody in the history of humanity has been able to prove your claim.

      2. Deborah Jean Frankum Perkins's Avatar Deborah Jean Frankum Perkins

        Mrknowitall, Thank you for your opinion. Tadpole!

  1. Linda Callagy's Avatar Linda Callagy

    IT IS SCIENCE. IT IS NOT FAITH OR RELIGION.

    1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Linda Callagy,

      Why are you shouting? Trying to make your point clearer?

      No need to shout if you know you're right!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    I wrote a paper on that theory in graduate school called "Fact or Faith"! No one has ever seen the missing link the actions of natural selection or the gradual change in species so that's clearly faith. As I mentioned before that theory is a new phenomenon and it follows the line of thinking that humans are getting smarter and more intelligent which isn't true at all. How we treat ppl determines intelligence therefore war like leaders create war like citizens and we Americans are super war like - we're the war gangsters. The American system of bitter hate as well as status fever has allowed a theory with NO real evidence to take hold and toss our emotions around. Why are human giants no longer a part of the American discourse? B/c it blows away that theory!! When God created the lower realm He said the time of refreshing has begun however after the evil spirits tampered with His creation we are now in a state of decay. God has cleansed us through the flood and next He will refine us through the use of fire and to all that God says: "Don't be afraid - I have seen how ALL have come before ME and trembled in fear." Seriously, who can really stand up against God?

    1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

      graduate school for what, exactly?

    2. Geoffrey C. Olive's Avatar Geoffrey C. Olive

      Graduate school MMJ - Master of Mumbo Jumbo!

  1. Angelyn Joy Krout's Avatar Angelyn Joy Krout

    It's science, plain and simple. These people probably just don't subscribe to evolution. Evolution is based on facts, not religion. Religion is mostly faith-based.

  1. Glenn G Caskey JR's Avatar Glenn G Caskey JR

    Evolution is a fact.

    1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      in your dreams as nobody has been able to prove this myth

      1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

        Except we do have proof of evolution... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK230201/

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          and no we dont. https://thednatests.com/how-much-dna-do-humans-share-with-other-animals/#:~:text=The%20genetic%20DNA%20similarity%20between,even%20taken%20place%2C%20called%20xenotransplants

          1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

            What does our genetic makeup and the similarity to other species have to do with disproving evolution? I provided you a scientific paper as a source showing that we have proof of evolution and you have not provided any evidence to the contrary. The fact that we share so much DNA with other species actually helps support the belief that we all evolved from the same single celled organisms.

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              Oh so when you get a link that has been peer reviewed and proved, and it destroys your theory of evolution, you now get very defensive and upset?

              1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                LOL. That link is not to a peer reviewed article that disproves evolution. It's just about "How Much DNA Do Humans Share With Other Animals and Plants," per the title of the article. That does not disprove evolution, in fact it supports the idea that we came from a common ancestor.

                I'm not getting defensive and upset, I'm providing you with a contrary view to yours and then supporting it with evidence, unlike you.

              2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                and as valid as any of the theories you have been posting

            2. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

              Michael Hunt,

              No, it doesn't. It proves the fallacy of evolution theory.

  1. Rev Ned's Avatar Rev Ned

    Teach science not superstitions.

  1. Robbie Ousley's Avatar Robbie Ousley

    God can't be proven by order or faith either one. God can't be expressed by scripture, or made into something like religion. There is only one lengthy way to prove God that most who claim to believe in God have no interest in or patience for. There is only one way to express God, they don't have any interest in that either. They won't even accept the extremely direct instruction given to them to do either. So, there's no reason for atheists to believe in God. At least not when those who claim to believe don't believe in God enough to follow the most direct simple instructions they were given and ignore that "all" people are to be respected, loved, and encouraged as every person is; not judgement, not condemnation, not stumblingblocks. And most have been more interested in being defensive and resistent to taking care of the earth, the first instruction given in no uncertain terms. I believe in the natural God of existence who never called for religion and didn't authorize any title for their followers. So I'm on the atheists side in these kinds of discussions, believers lose every time they show their victim-loving stripes.

  1. Danielle Elizabeth Ostach's Avatar Danielle Elizabeth Ostach

    Okay, 1) Evolution is a theory, it is a well established scientific theory that is taught as part of science with caveat that it can be modified if new facts are found to PROVE it wrong. 2) It does not give intelligence to nature, what it says is that mutations and changes occur and species with best adaptation to environment will tend to survive while those not as adept will die out. This is not intelligence but the way things go. If a place where strength is most important to survival, the stronger folks will live to reproduce and pass down their genetics and strength while the weaker ones will not. Same for intelligence, or any other trait. This can actually be seen in human genetics in that those from certain parts of world have adaptation (skin, hair, eyes) that are more suited to their part of the world. 3) it theorizes that humans came from apes that evolved over thousands or millions of years but does not claim it is true though various fossil evidence seems to support it, it is not taught as definitively conclusive. 4) has has been proven in other species through actual observation and testing.

    This makes it science and not religion. Evolution explicitly denied anything of intelligent design but that just natural survival of the fittest.

    Actually the concept that Nature has intelligence and design to change thing would actually imply a religion and a god as behind the changes and that is more like religion. That sounds more like Christianity and their intelligent design than evolution.

    1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

      Proven wrong all day long, never observed and cannot happen. Every cell in your body must be fully functional or else it dies very quickly, nothing evolves, everything De-volves !

  1. Alexandre Tadeu Fae Rosa's Avatar Alexandre Tadeu Fae Rosa

    Yes, theory of evolution hasn't been tested because it's a THEORY! Anyone who has been in touch with scientific development knows that some aspects of this theory have already been proved right. Others are still waiting to be tested or observed. It's high time we taught in our schools that science and religion explain different things.

  1. Alexandre Tadeu Fae Rosa's Avatar Alexandre Tadeu Fae Rosa

    What is easy to be seen? Miracles or evolution? I've never ever seen a miracle, but I've already seen some proofs of the evolution.

    Fossil record Fossils show how species that existed in the past are different from those present today.

    Genetics Different species have similarities in their DNA.

    Embryology Species that seem very different as adults pass through similar stages of embryological development.

    Direct observation Some populations, like microbes and some insects, evolve over relatively short time periods and can be observed directly. The emergence of drug-resistant bacteria and pesticide-resistant insects are modern examples of evolution.

    Hybrids The existence of hybrids, such as the mule, the liger, and the coywolf, is evidence of ongoing processes of speciation.

    The theory of evolution is one of the best-substantiated theories in the history of science.

  1. Daniel Todd Kamm's Avatar Daniel Todd Kamm

    So someone is wasting whatever minutes they have remaining of their lives, other peoples lives, and tax payers' dollars on this? The greatest evidence yet that modern humans have, indeed, evolved ... from .... And some can de-evolve as well! Peace...tk

  1. Daniel Todd Kamm's Avatar Daniel Todd Kamm

    But it's just my theory...!

  1. arawngraalrd's Avatar arawngraalrd

    Go back to the Bhagavad Gita, where Sankhye Yoga, the foundation of Science, is recommended as a religion... Teaching Evolution as a belief, is the error. Public School, is the other error.

    1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

      I will be the first to raise my and ask; What.......??????? None of what you wrote makes sense so either explain further or include some citations

  1. James Riggle-Johnson's Avatar James Riggle-Johnson

    Religion at its core always comes back to a creator of some kind. Whether that’s one or multiple creators or elements and amino acids or whatever, there is always a creator. Of course, there is the Church of Scientology which is neither religion nor science, but alien spirits or something. Science on the other hand is always changing based on what new facts or methods come into play.

    Most religions teach a God/Gods created everything. I do question how human civilization could have come from two individuals. I seriously doubt that could be possible but it’s a story in the bible and people believe it.

    I wonder why both a creator and evolution can’t exist together. The bible says God created the heavens and the earth in six days, but what is one day to a God? Is it possible that God caused the big bang and caused the right elements and proteins to come together and create life. And that life evolved over billions of years? Why does it always have to be one or the other?

    I’ve said this before… God did not write the bible. Men were trying to bring meaning to their lives and answer the question why we are here. These were power hungry men trying to control the lives of others. I think God, if they exist is beyond our comprehension. Neither male nor female but something more. Just my two cents.

    1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

      "I think God, if they exist is beyond our comprehension." what you may be thinking of as 'goD' is actually just natural processes that are found throughout the universe. it makes no sense to ascribe natural phenomenon to an unnatural, or supernatural being. really, it simply makes no sense to make up a goD rather than accept and marvel at the wonders of the universe

      1. James Riggle-Johnson's Avatar James Riggle-Johnson

        JJ, I was not trying to advocate the existence of god. I was making a reference to how Christianity and other religions are so set in the ways that they cannot accept science at all.

        1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

          ok, got it

        2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Ok then, explain the Big Bang. people who believe in evolution also believe in this, even though NASA and the JWT has shown galaxies and black holes that by all rules of physics and science should not exist but they do and by using the red shift as a basis, these clearly show they were in existence less then 200 million years after your Big bang. Which by Astronomers claims that is impossible as galaxies take billions of years to come together. And as any expert in explosives will tell you, you dont make a circular shape from a single explosion. All you have to do to see this is fact is take a match and light it and show me where the smoke makes shapes like that. Then the big bang is fake anyway as a bedrock law of science and that is Newtons 1st law of Thermodynamics (an object at rest will stay at rest, and an object in motion will stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside source" Now since everything was supposed to be condensed into a infinitely small object, what exactly was the outside source? Am I saying it was God? Nope. But it just proves science wrong. And if science is wrong on this, what makes you think they are not wrong on evolution?

          1. James Riggle-Johnson's Avatar James Riggle-Johnson

            Science is always willing to say as discoveries are made, we must adjust our theories and hypotheses. Science is only as good as our knowledge at that particular time. Science is always open to reevaluating their interpretations. The more we learn the more we know.

            With religion it’s we know our faith, end of story, no interpretation needed. Case closed. God, devil, heaven & hell exists. End of discussion. They are not even open to interpretation of translations of the bible. They cannot explain why some books were included when others were not. The earth is older than 6 or 7 thousand years old, but we have some teaching dinosaurs and man used to live together. Woman was created from the rib of man.

            There is scientific proof that evolution is real. Science deals with facts based on what we know at that time. Religion deals in scripture and faith that is never changing and not open to interpretation.

          2. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

            most recent theory, tired light. google it, you might learn a thing or two

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              yea right, you were just destroyed and to try and save face you bring up this newest THEORY instead of just admitting you are wrong

          3. Thomas P. Davis's Avatar Thomas P. Davis

            In the big bang theory, everything that exploded from it would have spun in the same direction, like kids flying off of a merry go round. Need to explain why we have planets in the solar system that spin in opposite directions or why we have planets with multiple moons that spin in the opposite direction.

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              Nobody said anything about spinning in opposite directions, Science is also saying that there is NO WAY that galaxies could have formed as fast as our new telescope shows they did by the red shift. So that means either the whole red shift theory is wrong or science is wrong. You chose which one.

              1. Thomas P. Davis's Avatar Thomas P. Davis

                Once again, I have no idea what you are talking about. All that I did was added one more proof against the big bang theory.

              2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                and I was speaking to the ones who seem to worship on the alter of this mythical big bang.

          4. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

            Daniel Gray,

            I couldn't have said it better! Bravo!

  1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

    No its not. The peppermill moth in England is a fine example. Evolutionists swore that the two moths in question were the same species. Sadly for them it was found they were two completely different species. And Evolution says we "evolved" from Apes. Ok then why are there still apes?

    Jeffrey Schwartz, professor of anthropology at the University of Pittsburgh has stated "it was and still is the case that the formation of a new species, by any mechanism, has never been observed."

    Darwin has stated "transitional forms leading from the less to the more evolved have never been found in the fossil records, and if evolution was fact, there should be a plethora of them."

    Famed Evolutionist Leslie Orgel, has stated "neither proteins nor nucleic acids could have arisen without the other,. And so, at first glance, one might have to conclude that life could never, in fact, have originated by chemical means. The precise events giving rise to the RNA world remain unclear. . . . investigators have proposed many hypotheses, but evidence in favor of each of them is fragmentary at best." In laymens terms this means Evolution is a theory.

    There isnt any clue as to how the one-celled organisms of the primordial world could have evolved into the vast array of complex multi-celled invertebrates of the Cambrian period. Even dogmatic evolutionist admits that: The Cambrian explosion was the most remarkable and puzzling event in the history of life and they have no idea why it happened overnight in the history of the world.

    The main scientific reason why there is no evidence for evolution in either the present or the past (except in the creative imagination of evolutionary scientists) is because one of the most fundamental laws of nature precludes it. The law of increasing entropy -- also known as the second law of thermodynamics -- stipulates that all systems in the real world tend to go "downhill," as it were, toward disorganization and decreased complexity. This law of entropy is, by any measure, one of the most universal, best proved laws of nature. It applies not only in physical and chemical systems, but also in biological and geological systems -- in fact, in all systems, without exception. No exception to the second law of thermodynamics has ever been found -- not even a tiny one. Like conservation of energy (the "first law"), the existence of a law so precise and so independent of details of models must have a logical foundation that is independent of the fact that matter is composed of interacting particles.

    Oh and BTW, according to the US Supreme Court, Atheism/Humanism ARE Religions which is why they ordered the US Military to allow Pastors and houses of worship for these, as well as their symbols being placed in Military Cemeteries.

    1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

      and finally, no, the peppered moth is NOT two species. it is ONE specie with two forms or variations, one is light colored with black spots and the other is black with white spots (melanic version). Either can breed with the other and produce fertile, viable offspring.

      one more egregious attempt to pull a fast one from ?answers in genesis?, where science goes to die

      1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

        Sorry JJ but completely wrong.

        1. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

          Another statement of "fact", DG. but no references, backup, or sources. The word 'wrong" alone will not suffice in argument or debate.

          1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

            Sorry to bust your bubble BH but I gave you the who what when and where. No skin off my nose of your beliefs wont accept that they are wrong. As Jefferson once said in 1789 "When the facts show that my beliefs are wrong, I then change them to fit the facts. Exactly what do YOU do sir?"

            1. Rev. BH's Avatar Rev. BH

              Ignore nonsense.

              1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                Nope sorry JJ, this is factual and even famed economist British John Maynard Keynes said the exact same thing.

                so far its two strikes to you, so why are you trying to make it a third?

            2. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

              Maybe your should take your own advice, Daniel, and accept when you are wrong and change your beliefs based on that.

              1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                Waiting for you to start. I mean you are the one claiming that Evolution is sceintific fact in one post and then saying that they are still studying it meaning it cant be fact if they are still learning. So I will ask again. Where is the crossover species, where is the peer revied study proving that one thing evolved into another. So far you have used word salad and have not provided any answers.

                Yet again sea snakes can extract oxygen from the water via their skin, but they still have lungs and can and do breathe like a normal air breathing animal. But this does not make the sea snake a fish now does it?

              2. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                Plenty of things that are factual continue to be studied. I've provided examples of transitional fossils that show how evolution has occurred over time while you have provided nothing.

              3. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                If you have then you have done something no other scientist in the history of mankind has ever done, and that is prove the existence of evolution. IN fact I can very easily prove it wrong. coelacanth. This fish has not changed anything in well over 150 million years. These fish look IDENTICAL to the fossils they have found of it. Want more? Ok goblin shark, duck-billed platypus, lungfish, tadpole shrimp, cockroach, and the horseshoe crab. And here are some animals that evolution says should not exist, but the do. Siphonophores, Immortal Jellyfish, Saber-toothed Deer, Blobfish, Philippine Tarsiers, Aardwolf, Axolotls, Ocean Sunfish, Blue Glaucus, Pangolins. Sea Sapphires, Weaverbirds, Sea Spiders, Secretary Birds, Horror Frogs, Peacock Spiders, Shoebill Storks, Rock Hyrax, Pyrosomes, Aye-Ayes, Jerboas, Gooseneck Barnacles, Platypus, Frigate Birds, Geoducks. Now close mouth and try and explain why these animals exist when Evolution can find no link between it or another species and all of the animals I have listed here look the exact same as they did in fossils over 100 million years ago.., meaning they never evolved, but if evolution is fact, then they should have evolved.

                Have a headache yet?

          2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

            awww whats wrong BH? Mad because science proving you wrong? https://www.nature.com/articles/nature17951

    2. Asa William Sprague, II's Avatar Asa William Sprague, II

      Just a couple things here: Darwin did not say "transitional forms leading from the less to the more evolved have never been found in the fossil records,." In fact, the fossil record DOES include many examples of transitional features, providing an abundance of evidence for evolutionary change over time.

      Also: Leslie Orgel's statement that "...one might have to conclude that life could never, in fact, have originated by chemical means," relates to the theory of Abiogenesis and has no bearing on the theory of Evolution.

      1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

        yes he did Sprauge, read Origin of the species and see for yourself.

        1. Asa William Sprague, II's Avatar Asa William Sprague, II

          Read it, yourself.

          Darwin used fossil records as a key piece of evidence to support his theory of evolution, concluding that species do vary over time by observing how fossils from different geological layers showed distinct, yet sometimes related, organisms, indicating a progression of life forms throughout history

          1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

            I did Sprauge and it does state exactly that, not to mention his own family at Darwins deathbed all say the exact same thing. So who do we believe...them or you and your fantasy?

    3. James Riggle-Johnson's Avatar James Riggle-Johnson

      Are you using AI to write your responses?

  1. Wendy Irene Copeland's Avatar Wendy Irene Copeland

    Personally, I BELIEVE that a creator started original life. I ACCEPT that evolution has continued that life, as we see evolution all around us. I myself have mutations in some genes that cause a disease process that can now be inherited. I have faith in God AND believe science to be what we know at this time. However, it is my personal belief and I would not want to force my personal belief on anyone. Schools should teach facts as contained in science. Churches should teach and follow faith as contained in their holy book. Kep the two separate.

    1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Wendy Irene Copeland,

      If God is good and almighty, why do we suffer and die?

      Evolution is not only unable to answer this fundamental question, but it's intrinsically reliant on DEATH to uphold itself!

      The Bible gives a better answer.

  1. Michele Marie Miles's Avatar Michele Marie Miles

    Evolution is science. It has nothing to do with religion. If the religious fanatics want everything they deem atheistic or anti-god, then they would only be teaching the bible to children as everything could be skewed that way. This is where it is up to parents to help their children learn what is and is not and to have discussions with their children about their beliefs as a family. It is not up to the schools to do this. Parents are just becoming lazy and want the schools to do everything. Learning starts at home and if you want your children to grow up in a bible based home, it is up to you to help them understand that the entire world is not that way and guide them to the faith you want them to learn. Jeez.

    1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

      it is not a science, its a THEORY as it has never been proved. If it has then were are the transitional species?

      1. Farajallah Michael Yazbek's Avatar Farajallah Michael Yazbek

        Actually, they ARE proving evolution via DNA samples of things we have in hand from the ancient fossils that are constantly being found. Man will NOT have another ancestor because God made us separate and in his image, as he says. Theory IS science proven. Hypotheses are not proven, but developed based on evidence in hand.

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Oh really? then show where what you are claiming is happening and has been peer reviewed. I wont hold my breath waiting.

      2. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

        It's called scientific theory, Daniel. LOL

        1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

          Exactly and there is a reason for it to be called THEORY!

          1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

            A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Wrong again, Daniel.

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              Really Michael. Then why has there been NO scientist ever to scientifically show they have actually evolved one species into another?

              1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                Plenty of scientists have, Daniel.

                https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-scientists-discovered-the-staggering-complexity-of-human-evolution/

                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6428117/

                https://biologos.org/common-questions/what-is-the-evidence-for-evolution

              2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                And not one of these has been peer reviewed so all we are doing is basis it on what a person(s) claims and nothing more.

              3. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                Evolution is a fact and a well-supported scientific theory. It has endured daily and rigorous testing, and it stands as the unifying theory in biology (Rutledge and Warden, 2000). https://www.jstor.org/stable/4450822

              4. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                Nope sorry, it cant be factual when even above I have given 10 different quotes from Darwin himself that disprove evolution

              5. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                Except you haven't provided any quotes from Darwin. Just quotes from creationists.

              6. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                Sorry Hunt, I gave you the exact page and statement from Darwins book, now if you had read the book then you would know I am correct and you?....not so much

              7. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

                Michael Hunt,

                This is a contradiction in terms. No matter how well supported, if it's a theory, it cannot be a fact!

                Bingo!

              8. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                A theory explains facts. The theory of gravity can be observed and proven as fact. Theories can be factual.

              9. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                No a Theory explains what one person want it to be. Even webster is calling you out on this "a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something that has yet to be proved factual"

          2. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

            Daniel Gray,

            It's called BRAINWASHING KIDS!

            1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

              Yep and since by using Darwins own words and the lack of a transitional species, there is far more then enough fact to disprove evolution. Just like the Big Bang theory has been disproved by the JWT. I mean people would want you to expect this whole wide universe to have been condensed into something infinitely small. that in and of itself is impossible. But Even Newtons 1st Law of thermodynamics clearly says " an object in motion will stay in motion, and an object at rest will stay at rest unless acted upon by an outside source." So what was the outside source that caused the explosion. Am I saying it was God...nope. but it proves that not everything in the universe was compressed as claimed. And if they were wrong about that then they are also wrong about this. There was a discussion will Dr Tyson and Bill Nye. I asked one question of both of them and not only did they refuse to answer but they told me I had to leave and that got the group in the auditorium upset and these two called off the debate and ran with their tails between their legs. I asked them if they believed in Issac Newtons findings, and when they both said yes I brought up the above question of the big bang. Guess they didnt expect to be made fools of.

              1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

                Daniel Gray,

                Very clever of you!

                Bravo!!

  1. Ramon de Venecia Josue's Avatar Ramon de Venecia Josue

    We need the Bible, but we don't need "religion" to make us better or be morally good. having said that Faith and Religion become synonymous. Besides according to John 3:16 "Believe" not have faith. And according to Matt. 23:23 Faith is of the Law. So again the Created or Creation needs the EXACT WORD of the CREATOR. Never Religion. The LORD did not teach nor practice any religion including Judaism.

    1. Bruce Kevin Jones's Avatar Bruce Kevin Jones

      Yes. I will have to explain something you may not have knowledge of. the Diet of nicea changed the entire Bible in 323 AD to prevent the masses from finding out the truth; the church is not required, Jesus gathered people together and did a sermon; but a physical church everybody was supposed to pay money to maintain was not originally required.

      the Bible we have today is rewritten from the 'changed' version.

      Most of the Bible has to be re-edited by each pastor as you read it, just know that all explanations in Jesus time had to do with the common knowledge of Astrology, and that everyone was reincarnated, but started out with a clean slate each time, and magic was also removed, only the Pope was allowed to do 'miracles'.

      So when you read the magical texts of Jesus Scripture realize you need to put back in the extra words that Justinian removed for tax reasons. Frivolous reasons, he wanted no excuses for Romans to have to pay high taxes, so he changed the Bible by decree.

      also Jesus time was totally misogynist, women had virtually no rights. So IF a woman rode a Donkey she was Rich, and if she also wore Blue, (not Lapis Lazuli - which makes a pale blue dye) that also meant she was rich, because only rich people could afford indigo dye from southern India!

      1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

        Bruce Kevin Jones,

        You too need a reality check.

        Where do you people even get this stuff from?

        Jesus was outstanding in how he treated women with dignity and respect. The very fact he spoke to women, as in John 4, or that some women were even among his disciples was revolutionary in itself in those days!

        No miracles are attributed to any pope that I'm aware of. The papacy is purey a church office that takes its origin from the Pentarchy - whatever the Catholics have made of it. If anything, miracles are necessary for ordinary dead believers to attribute sainthood to them in Canon Law. Even Martin Luther had one miracle attributed to him when he cured Melanchton of death with his prayer.

        As for the Bible, we have the earliest manuscripts from several sources. Go and check for yourself if the Bible has ever been changed!

    2. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Ramon de Venecia Josue,

      What you have said is complete nonsense, and I say this with respect.

      1. Faith means trust, and that has to do with relation, not the Law.

      2. Yeshua was a rabbi. He took his disciples through the whole Law (Torah) in its process of 3.5 years.

      You need a reality check.

  1. Cheryl's Avatar Cheryl

    Hold on. Science has already found that the genetic leap to our modern human genome in the evolutionary cycle was NOT possible under normal evolutionary conditions. The unique alteration in the second layer could NOT have evolved naturally. Therefore, there was Some Other Hand at work in taking the basic genome to the level of genetically modern humans about 200,000 years ago. So, the question then is, Who created that genetic leap outside of the evolutionary cycle? Both evolution and creation were at work to a certain point. Then Someone stepped in. Darwin - zero, God - One.

    And also, we need to keep in mind that our Master Teacher said to render unto Caesar (governments, schools, institutions) that which is Ceasar's and unto God that which is God's. So, there's no place in "public" schools for this discussion. Yes, churches have to remember this one before trying to wrap God into the syllabus before we become like some of the Middle East countries where crazy religious fervor rules just like in the Inquisition.

    1. Ronaldo's Avatar Ronaldo

      Science has been wrong before, and will be again. I recently read an article claiming that astronomers have found evidence that the universe cannot exist, and yet here it is. Some other works have made claims that some galaxies and/or stars are older than the universe, but offered no rational explanation as to how that could be. If something is, but our theories say otherwise, which is wrong, the fact that something exists, or the theory? On another note, since radical environmental events or other stressors tend to cause evolution, there are no "normal evolutionary conditions", because each one can be different from any other.

      1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

        Yep, and the JWT found a star they named HD 140283 (Methuselah star) and its giving evolutionists and Big Bang Theory worshippers massive headaches as according to the tests done on this star, the age of it comes back as 16 BILLION YEARS OLD. Now how exactly can this be if the Universe is only supposed to be 14 Billion? How can you have a star that is 2 billion years older then the supposed age of the universe? So it comes down to one of two things...1. They made a mistake and thats not possible when you have two different sources saying the same thing, or 2. The Universe is far older then they want to admit. thus screwing up everything they tried to claim an age to. Then you have things like the "Great Void" a spot in the universe that has very little or no stars/galaxies at all. Meaning that there could not have been a big bang as the pressure wave from an explosion goes out in a circular pattern. Anyone that deals in explosives will tell you that little fact of life.

        1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

          Daniel Gray,

          The Bible is clear that our perception of time was mutated once Adam and Eve committed the original sin. One day in God's presence is like 1000 years in this side of the experience.

          All those who have mystical experiences report a different perception of time. That explains the billion years... it is impossible to capture back the week of creation when so much happened.

          Even the story of Lilith, the first woman in Genesis 1, takes further unpacking of the events as we are normally acquainted with. So much happened in just one week because time in eternity is perceived differently.

    2. Bruce Kevin Jones's Avatar Bruce Kevin Jones

      I have a completely different idea, as posted below. Modern man invented all the ape-humans to become laboratory built slaves to do manual labor. instead of using ourselves, in prehistory, we tried building less than intelligent ape-humans. Every time tried, something happened, there were not that many made. bad batch was usually the problem.

      there is evidence that Humans are evolved in a different direction than the physical. our evolution went into spirit, so that Humans are so different from all other lifeforms on Earth, the others have a spirit this is true, but none of them have the evolved spirit we call a soul that is completely separate from the spirit. Everything else including entities outside our Earth DON'T have a spirit soul because they evolved in only the physical body. Sure their technology is a million years ahead of us, but they all lack a soul, for all their supposed superiority to Humans.

      Yes We can't think as fast or do all the amazing things they can, except we have a soul instead of only a spirit. showing that Humans evolved differently than the others, we evolved a higher spirit than anything except God. God made all them too, but only Humans have a soul.

      anyway I extrapolated my theory off of the Tome Sir Colin Wilson compiled in 98. Humans are a tad older than science wants to admit. :)

  1. Morgan Lewis Williams's Avatar Morgan Lewis Williams

    Genesis never denied evolution, nor did it ever say that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman. Seth took a wife without it being called incest.

    1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Morgan Lewis Williams,

      Genesis denies evolution by its very principle. Adam (HaDam) means The Man and Eve was taken from its rib (clearly not of another species!). Set marries one of his sisters - Adam and Eve had other children.

  1. Bruce Kevin Jones's Avatar Bruce Kevin Jones

    I have gathered a completely different take upon the theory of evolution. Besides the fact that an unknown undergraduate with no standing among the professors at Dartmouth or where ever Darwin was a professor, because he simply plagiarized the work of the undergraduate.

    The thinking was that there was no way in hell that an unknown writing a paper on the theory of evolution would get published or read by any of the faculty at all the colleges in England. So Darwin claimed he invented Evolution.

    Now I stated all that to show that Darwin was never the authority upon his own 'science'.

    Now we know that science has cloned sheep and other animals in experiments, the cloned copies don't live long but they live for a short period to study why they die so quickly after the process.

    now the last point I wanted to place in my postulation: Rose Leaky found Homo Sapiens Sapiens footprints in the same level of ash layer as Australopithecus, or the first human. Rose's findings were buried because it flew in the face of established archaeology, Modern Man could not have been alive when the first Humans stood upright instead of walking like a monkey.

    again another fossilized riverbed in Colorado shows a Homo Sapiens Sapiens walking his Tyrannosaurus Rex Pet Dinosaur down a beach, fossilized 65,000,000 years ago.

    both of These examples are presented as existing in the Tome "from Atlantis to the Sphinx" of all sciences collated into one volume in 1998.

    My postulation is this all these not Human and more like an Ape were exactly that cloning methods used to build slaves to do manual labor instead of the Humans doing the work. Proto-humans were invented in labs and tried out in the wild. Modern Humans from 65,000,000 years ago, (we did not evolve any more this is it for Humans), We developed along different lines than other sentint beings, we have a spirit and a soul where they do not, out evolution is in spirit not a body.

    Humans I postulate are older than science wants to admit. Anyway the Bible can't know GOD'S time His time varies to mean more than what is said. I say it like that because God has a timeline that is seperate from ours. we live in linear time, one second after another another. God is in all time seconds both past and present as a spirit. That is the image we Humans are made in, God's Spiritual image, not a Hum,an body.

    all the Cro-Magnons, Neanderthals and other offshoots were all genetic experiments in prehistory, before we had a war or had a catastrophe upset everything, so we had to start from scratch again and go the basic 6,000 years to modern era again All the 'other men' were experiments to make slaves for manual labor.

    Humans are different we have a Spirit and a Soul, animals on Earth don't have a soul, they have a spirit but no soul. The Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal and the others did not have souls, because none of them were natural, they all were built in a laboratory. And for these reason is why there are so few skeletons of them, We did not make many, because they were all lousy slaves.

    Now I have to point out the obvious, all other species alive on earth right now do not have the earlier version of that animal also still living. Only the evolved version.

    So if Dolphins are evolved from killer dolphins, and Mastodons were alive up until the end of the last ice age. How come Mastodons are not walking around with Elephants? and there should be dolphins the size of killer whales still, because if we are descended from monkeys WHY ARE THERE STILL MONKEYS?

    1. Geoffrey C. Olive's Avatar Geoffrey C. Olive

      Absolute nonsense! All life on this planet evolved from single cell life. Using BKJ’s logic there should be no single cell life now! He obviously hasn’t heard of bacteria, etc!

    2. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

      well BK Jones, you win the internet for today with that giant gas baggy thesis. you seem to be missing some significant information along the way.

      human footprints walking alongside t rex?

      there's just so much to unpack here.

      who ever said dolphins evolved from killer dolphins? really?

      as for mastodons, changing climate and being hunted by a new, much smarter animal, man

      hominids and the apes descended from a common ancestor...9 million years ago (?) so we came from a common ancestor but not from monkeys. that idea came from the scopes monkey trial. how about that birds are actually dinosaurs

    3. Thomas P. Davis's Avatar Thomas P. Davis

      In evolution no need for all the beauty and color. Everything would be black and white. No need for sexual organs on man and woman. We would just propagate like the earthworms.

    4. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Bruce Kevin Jones,

      When people stop believing in the Bible, it's mindboggling what they will believe!

      Just keep it simple!

  1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

    Darwin's theory is a religion based upon evidence never observed and the omitting of scientific laws we know to be true and tested mainly the second law of thermodynamics. In 2002 in the city of Orlando I litigated the requirement of teaching the theory of evolution to both my daughters who were in public school, they were both excused form learning and testing on the subject as being true ! The school board had no option other than to grant the exception that was argued solely on the basis of scientific fact, I don't know about now but in 2002 in the Orlando public school system you could not be exempt from learning curriculum based upon religious belief only. I am not a scientist so I enlisted the help of Dr. Joseph Mastropaolo, PHD Professor Emeritus Long Beach State University. With his help we proved scientifically to the board and their lawyers that the Theory of Evolution is devoid of facts and is not true, what does exist is the complete opposite, De-volution !

    1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

      florida? lol why of course, florida, where education goes to die

    2. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

      Dr. Joseph Mastropaolo has his degree in kinesiology not evolutionary science. He's a false authority on the subject. https://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/03/28/no-i-will-not-ever-debate-joseph-mastropaolo

  1. Farajallah Michael Yazbek's Avatar Farajallah Michael Yazbek

    The only part of evolution I don't agree with is the evolution of man, or homo sapien. Genesis says God said, "Let us make man in our own image," meaning we were made separately from the others. And Genesis never says HOW God made the different species. The Theory Of Evolution and Genesis agree on the order of the creation of the species. And what made the species adapt and evolve in the first place? Just separate Man from the rest and evolution is, indeed, probable, as a tool God used for the creation of all the animals. If you look at the different evolutionary periods before man, there are five. Man was made on the 6th day, and God reserved the 7th (Sabbath) for relaxation and rest for man. Just read them together, think about the different eras and it all falls into place and makes Genesis possible in agreement with evolution.

    1. Farajallah Michael Yazbek's Avatar Farajallah Michael Yazbek

      Oh, and by the way, no, evolution theory is NOT religion. It's a like any other tenet and belief in any religious sect or order. It's a tool, not an all-encompassing way of life.

  1. Richard White's Avatar Richard White

    I think since the Bible says God fashioned man from the earth then man from mud seems like the way God made man. Evolution was just gods way of creating us. So in that way it is biblical but some teachers use evolution as proof against God thereby making enemies of the Christians. It's unfortunate.

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    If there's an oral tradition a written history and archeology evidence then most likely its true. Hence the evidence of human giants carries way more weight than a theory that has no oral tradition no written history and archeology evidence. The existence of giants refutes that phony theory and that hurts the feeling our modern day scientific atheist. If they admit to the existence of human giants then it really shows that the words of our ancestors are true and the archeology evidence of human giants that they continually try to hide is actually TRUE AND THAT HURTS THEIR FRAGILE EGO!!!

  1. NLilly's Avatar NLilly

    Evolution is just a belief system from some twisted, ungodly person; whose mindset is surely alienated from the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. /

    My answer to banning the Holy Bible in Public Schools? Absolutely Not! The Holy Bible IS very Encouraging and Spirit uplifting; and allows the unrepentant sinner to find his/her pathway to the ALMIGHTY GOD through CHRIST JESUS in Peace, Love, Patience, and Understanding! And it also Helps to keep the repenting sinner closer to GOD in CHRIST JESUS. It also gives us Guidance in our Spiritual Man and Conscience to refuse the evil and all unrighteousness, and to do good and to keep thyself Pure and walking in Faith and Love. AMEN JESUS! HALLELUYAH! ♥ ♥

    1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

      Evolution is a scientific theory subjected to rigorous scrutiny by other scientists to test if the theory holds true. It's backed up by data, not blind faith.

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    We Americans don't know what peace looks like b/c we've never seen it and peaceful leaders produce peaceful citizens. Darwin was surprised how quickly his theory was accepted...what science has done was manipulate and fabricate information to try to create the evidence to make the theory true. We live in the lower realm where hate lies and negativity can win sometimes. The American hate system is so immature bitter and powerful that most peacemakers are silenced or attacked in America and that's not scientific that's social. The theory of evolution comes right out of the American hate system where they try to prove that human intelligence is equal to God's intelligence...which we know is: NOT!!!

    1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

      you seem to be mixing up a LOT of different things, I might first suggest lavender scent for calming

      anyway, evolution comes about from a number of people observing, discovering and asking many, many questions, mostly none having to do with goD or religion (and to which religion is and was opposed, as evidenced here by...some)

      science, as I'm learning here, appears to really upset those most closely tied to their religious beliefs. if one looks calmly at the responses here, one can tell who is highly agitated, not just by what they write, but how they write it.

      people need to understand that the bibble is a collection of man-made stories collected from tribal myths and long lasting superstitions repeated around the campfires until people forgot they were just silly stories and started to actually believe in them

      it is sad what religion has done to people, even here at the fairly civilized ULC forum, people come in all upset about other religions, other sexual orientations, other beliefs. and they are always of a similar form; radical, some might say terroristic, many would agree they are one-minded and extremely intolerant of other ideas.

      so sad that people burn up over things that are so simply and comical

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    This is the elephant in the room...the main reason it was accepted so quickly is b/c it was another way to prove African inferiority by saying if humans come out of Africa then the Africans come from apes and Europeans are higher humans which led to eugenics. The Europeans didn't like how the Greeks gave the Ethiopians such glowing compliments. They called the Ethiopians blameless peaceful ppl tall and beautiful and a place where the gods reside. Those compliments don't match the false narrative of ape like savages with no human soul but that theory fits their narrative perfectly. Plus it served another purpose which is to divide ppl and create more disagreement about God and the Spiritual Realm. Two can't walk together unless they agree and as long as we don't agree we never can become the United States and therefore the American experiment is a failure!!

  1. Rudolph M Garza's Avatar Rudolph M Garza

    “Science is agnostic, meaning that it does not have a particular metaphysical view.”

    However, I did get to know a theoretical physicist that believes the universe is a “network” the “learns” and is alive. That is what I call “a leap in faith”. I don’t know if there are more like him or if this “belief” of his will catch on.

    Lawyers have their own definitions of “faith” and “religion”. Would love to see what they say.

    As for me, I do not mind science. It has its benefits, after all.

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    As I stated before if there's an oral tradition a written history and archeology evidence then most likely its true. Hence the evidence of human giants carries far more weight than a theory that has no oral tradition no written history and no archeology evidence. The existence of giants refutes that false theory and that hurts the feeling our modern day scientific atheist. If they admit to the existence of human giants then it really shows that the words of our ancestors are true and the archeology evidence of human giants that they continually try to hide is actually TRUE AND THAT HURTS THEIR FRAGILE EGO!!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Most of our modern day scientists have the God complex but none of them can talk like God!! God says: I am self eternal and self sustaining (For a moment of eternity) I was alone with just My Thought My Thought is My Counselor. My Wisdom and My Word are made, if I turn away My Face ALL will be destroyed. I have seen how ALL have come before Me and trembled in fear. God said: I create something out of nothing and I speak My Angels into existence and I created My Humans with My Little Finger, there is no difference between My Angels and My Humans. Now know this - NO human can even think up those words to say about themselves so God knows what He knows and we can't touch that. So let us humble ourselves and understand that God is ABSOLUTE and we are His Children inside His Oneness...skin color is an illusion!!

  1. Michael Sledge's Avatar Michael Sledge

    Again free will, we are entitled to belive in what we like. The courts take this away allowing such nonsense lawsuits. If you don't like the theory, turn and walk away. It's not "YOUR WORLD" ITS EVERYONES

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    God is a Consuming Fire that dwells in Unapproachable Light, when He moves He emits fire and it burns, God is ineffable marvelous and terrifying and woe to be in the Hands of the Almighty. Our thoughts and our ways are not like God's, God is Love God is Spirit and God is Super Patient which is something that we're NOT!! Most ppl are fickled, frivolous and flippant and most of us don't like the authority of the truth, we think we know better. There's a way that seems right to us humans but in the end it leads to destruction or more specifically disagreements and animosity - who don't know this?

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    We ALL know the truth by how it feels we know our thoughts and whether they're positive or negative we know our words and we know our actions. What we don't know is our true nature - we really don't know how kind nice and forgiving we can be. Most Americans are too competitive and too hard hearted to understand their true nature. Some ppl think I'm upset and maybe too passionate but actually I'm cool and in control - I just know how to express myself with no fear filled with confidence. My BLACK father taught me this: if you treat other good good things will come back to you and as 57 yr old black man from the streets of Baltimore I believe in that wholeheartedly. I live on the edge and I can handle that - some ppl can't - but really I'm not afraid of treating ppl good and I hope no one reading these words have that fear. Yeah I went off track some...but so what...I got all my words out and now I'm good to go solo!! Most ppl don't know what that means but peace and hair grease I'm OUT!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Some are saying teach that the supernatural is unbelievable and teach that the basics of nature is not super and therefore science is not super hence science is just basic nature. Now that's fine for some ppl cause that's all they can handle - some ppl can't handle life goin beyond the basic natural and that's fine to stay stuck in that mode. But we're able to use our imaginations and to dream a little further for a reason but science can't go there - using our imagination to relate to the Spiritual Realm is frowned upon and that's OK...it has nothing to do with how we treat ppl!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    There was a time when our ancestors knew the names of most of Angels in the High Holy Heavens nowadays we barely know the names of 4 or 5 Angels and if we do know some names then its considered myth talk and that's a subtle way of adding doubt!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    "Teach science not superstition"...how about teach peace not war...in H.S. all I learned was European and American history and it was war on top of war...they bragged about a 100 yrs of war...never talked about peace not even 5 yrs of peace...can science teach peace if it can it need to figure that out...there are books out of Ethiopia that talk about peace and ppl getting along with each other but not in Europe or America...all we get is war war war...in America there are way more guns than humans...we'll run out of humans before we run out of weapons of war...we have alot of money for war but yet we can't feed the poor...war like leaders produce war like citizens...who don't understand that?

  1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

    it takes far more faith to believe in evolution then it does to believe we are created. So yes Evolution is a religion

    1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

      Why does it take faith to follow peer reviewed scientific data? There's zero evidence to suggest the creation story is true and in fact many aspects have been debunked by science including the claimed age of the Earth.

      1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

        because it wasnt peer reviewed. to review something you have to do the exact same thing as what you are reviewing. And to this date not one scientist has shown proof that evolution has or did exist.

        1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

          I've already provided you with a number of sources showing that scientists do have proof of evolution existing.

          "When the facts show that my beliefs are wrong, I then change them to fit the facts. Exactly what do YOU do sir?"

          1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

            And not one of your so called "proofs" have been peer reviewed, meaning they were able to do the exact same thing in a different lab or in a different country. So no sorry you have proved nothing.

            1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

              Daniel, they have been peer reviewed. Carbon dating can be done by scientists around the world to help us determine the age of the earth.

              It's okay to be wrong. It's how you handle being wrong that shows your true character.

              1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                no they were NEVER peer reviewed, and the story about the piltdown man expressly states this

            2. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

              Your peered review of Piltdown man and Nebraska Man went well...They were fakes

              1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                Right, scientists challenged the assertions and found them to be false. That's how science works.

              2. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

                Yes they were proved fake, BUT the people who believe in evolution went on and on and on for quite a long time trying to show that they were real, Heck you even had Professors at Harvard and Yale who were desperate to prove them real as they staked their reputations on it.

      2. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

        Michael Hunt,

        It takes faith because the evolution theory claims something tantamount to this: blend all different colors in a basket and then cast that blend against the wall; you shall get the Monalisa!

        Where does life come from? Why are our organisms so perfect?

        1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

          Organisms are far from perfect. We have an appendix inside of us that is mostly unnecessary for our existence, hence why so many people have it removed when they have appendicitis. Sometimes we grow cancerous cells that slowly, or not so slowly, kill us. Some people are born with abnormalities that have various levels of effects on a person's life.

          1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

            Michael Hunt,

            And so is the Monalisa imperfect. So be my guest. Try to do what I said. Cast a blend of colors on the wall and get the Monalisa.

            You know you can't so stop rationalizing.

  1. Linda P Dettler's Avatar Linda P Dettler

    Evolution is in theory true, but I think it differs from God's human. I believe God put Adam and Eve in the Garden as humans as we think of them I think evolution is also true for certain humans. If you look at the evolution tables and pictures, the end pictures cannot be the "white" maile or female that they show, but darker skinned humans like Africans and Aborigious tribes. They have the same head shape and many of them still have the slanted forheads and wide noses. I believe at one point in history, both human species met, mated and made the commonality of humans we know today. Just my thoughts.

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Science can us help build weapons war but science can't teach us peace...science can help count the number of the dead but science can't teach peace...science can measure the loss of territory but science can't teach peace...there are still a few places on this earth where ppl live in relative peace...there's no military no prisons no juvenile detention ctrs and no locked door like the small island country of Tuvalu...for most ppl that means nothing but what it really means is that it doesn't take American science American math or social studies to find peace...as a matter fact it shows that they do better without any American influence...ain't that right?

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Humans learned to write letters and numbers by observing the stars and watching the movements of the universe not from apes...there were more elements on the periodic table than we have today that's why certain ancient flying machines like the vamanas can't be re-engineered...those elements have gone extinct just like certain species of plants and animals...extinction equates to decay not refreshing or positive evolution...evolution is basically change and change is constant...just like the arrogant thoughts of ppl thinking that they're superior those thoughts are goin to go extinct or an evolution or a change to better thinking will definitely happen...our modern day scientists think they know how God has planned out His Creation but what they won't say is we humans are getting smaller, not living as long as we used too and the universe is in a state of decay! Nature normally regrows regenerates and recycles but b/c we're conquering mother nature all of those actions by mother nature is becoming more and more difficult...we all can see that our fish are abnormally dying as well as animals and trees and grass...if that's evolution then its negative evolution caused by war like humans where hate lies and negativity can win the minds of most ppl...we all can see the decay that's happening can't we?

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    If a human has never heard or read any books about God and the Spiritual Realm then they won't know about God and the Spiritual Realm. The 81 books of the Holy Scriptures is a reference book that references lots of other books that go into more specific detail about ppl places and moments. Alot of those books were deliberately burned so we've lost alot of understanding about the Spiritual Realm so quite naturally false narratives have easily taken root. Now there are a few places on this earth that still has alot of the outside books that go into more detail but those places are hidden and quiet. Also the Holy Scriptures calls itself the Holy Scriptures so when someone calls the Holy Scriptures the Bible they're already showing their naivety about the Holy Scriptures....there's a whole library of books that revolve around the Holy Scriptures that's actually hidden and protected from those arrogant American and European intellectuals. And you know what...that's super duper great news - don't yall agree? Keep their grubby little hands away from those beautiful and Holy Words!!

  1. Joyce Heck's Avatar Joyce Heck

    I believe that it is a religion just like any other religion. Something someone believes in and has faith in. Their faith is in science rather than God and this is a moment where we should just agree to disagree. It's an argument that could last for centuries. As long as we stay respectful everyone should be able to choose religion or science.

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Evolution doesn't wanna touch human giants monolith megalith ancient flying machines and ancient human ingenuity and we all know why! All of those facets of human existence destroys the theory of evolution which says that non intelligent humans lived in alot of different places all around the earth. They can't say that advance civilizations existed near less advance civilizations that's too difficult to admit. We already know that the setting of the Holy Scriptures was in Africa...we know it by the terrain the plants and the animals as well as the ages of the synagogues as well as the tradtions of certain ppl...the oldest synagogue is in Africa...Americans and Europeans have tried super hard to destroy hide and cover up the influence of Africa but for some reason it never can completely do it and I wonder why? B/c lies don't last forever...most ppl know that modern day Israel is not where ancient Israel was located...the Europeans put modern day Israel in that location for land and trade purposes not to be truthful with following the Holy Scriptures that's why the Holy Scriptures said: those Jews are not Jews and most ppl know that...don't we already know that?

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    "Teach science not superstition"...how about teach peace not war...in H.S. all I learned was European and American history and it was war on top of war...they bragged about a 100 yrs of war...never talked about peace not even 5 yrs of peace...can science teach peace if it can it need to figure that out...there are books out of Ethiopia that talk about peace and ppl getting along with each other but not in Europe or America...all we get is war war war...in America there are way more guns than humans...we'll run out of humans before we run out of weapons of war...we have alot of money for war but yet we can't feed the poor...war like leaders produce war like citizens...who don't understand that?

    1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Taurence Duvael Chisholm,

      We are Jews, and that's why we contend the land of Judea & Samaria with the Palestinians. That explains what you guys call 'settlements.'

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Why does American and Eurasia love war so much? Scientists can track the history war and it overwhelming highlights those areas...all learned in HS is war war war...there are books in Ethiopia that talk about peace and ppl getting along with each other...has America ever had a period of absolute peace? Nope! So its obvious that our war like leaders can NOT teach peace...for they don't have the humility that it takes to teach PEACE...we all can see our war like nature can't we?

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    We'll run out of humans before we run out of weapons of war...we have alot money for war but we can't feed the poor...science can help us build weapons of war but science can't teach peace...that's beyond science and we all know this!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Evolution is change and God designing change is clearly visible. The theory of evolution is purporting that these scientists know exactly how God created and the time order of life as well as how everything came into existence. That college try by scientists has done more harm than good especially toward our ancient ancestors as well as our indigenous ancestors (modern day science totally disrespects their thoughts about creation). That theory highlights differences in physical qualities and then says that those different qualities determines intelligence and sophistication. That theory does more harm than good. The 1,000 yrs is like a day is highlighting God's patience and His eternal viewpoint which we can't relate too. Scientists act like they have special knowledge which allows them to say that God did and didn't do this in ancient history. Carbon dating isn't perfect...is a second really a second...is an inch really that size and does a pound weigh what science says. We take that information as rock solid but is it rock solid? Scientists can be questioned and their results can be wrong just like God can be questioned but His results aren't wrong b/c life is actually happening. I can nick pick science all day long and then eventually become a skeptic. I don't believe everything a doctor says or a scientist a sociologist a teacher a coach a cop a pastor a father a mother a brother a sister my TV the radio or the internet...they all can have a hidden agenda. But this a part of God's agenda that's most fascinating to ME and its this: I can have eternal life as a Spirit Being being able to move at the speed of thought. I don't care if anybody believes that cause that's super positive and you can't be no more positive than that. The theory of evolution is not close to being that positive especially toward the African and indigenous ppl on this earth...that's the hidden agenda which most Americans don't want to look at...we come from Greatness and we return to Greatness not we come from apes and we become worm food that's too depressing and it has no spiritual connection at all!!!

  1. Renee J Bridges's Avatar Renee J Bridges

    Lets start with Moses who wrote Genesis 1513 years before Jesus arrived, so there was no witness to this blessed event. Evolution also has no witnesses EXCEPT thru the bones of creatures & human skulls...now in continuing with the account of Genesis, Adam & Eve left the garden without having children (possibly a deal breaker) & struggled in an under developed landscape where the only comfort they had was each other. Thus FINALLY having children & WHO do you think these children mated with? There were OTHER CREATIONS, other beings that were living according to their own development from other creatures that were already there...there are so many statements of our Creator creating animals long before He allowed His (or Her, I'm saying it this way for sexist) image to become flesh. Eons of creatures created & destroyed for various reasons but some apparently "domestic" adapted (evolved) to surroundings because they didn't eat miles & miles of vegetation in one day! Causing their own demise. "Domestics" were probably the warm blooded animals that survived BECAUSE they adapted to the surroundings w/o destroying it. I believe that is WHY there were so many statements of creating vegetation over & over because of the SCALE of animals created like it was a learning process for our Creator...Now let me repeat because of it's importance... our Creator HAD A LEARNING PROCESS...where primates were seen to look up to the stars (an instinct of something greater) & found their own tools to eat! NOW the extra DNA that developed in primates to increase & adapt their development CAN be said given from the Creator directly OR the Creator ALLOWED superior beings, created LONG before us within that learning process to give us that DNA! After eons crude beings adapted & developed that were eventually considered "people" . Now after SEEING this development our Creator REFINED this image into It's CHILDREN that were given directions to LEARN but they did nothing else. They did not have to adapt to survive. So now RULES were created for these CHILDREN to create DESIRE, the desire to be like their Father. And what child wouldn't? Told by the only animal allowed to speak. (How & why did THAT happen?)But learning & decision making had effects & consequences, in being like the Parent they were no longer children where everything gets provided. But they had to know there was no way back to being a child. They were no smarter than other beings except THEY KNEW their Father & perhaps that was the start of religion! What I'm trying to demonstrate is that science AND faith go hand in hand, where one will prove the other. But TO HAVE FAITH in the LEARNING PROCESSES of the universe & BEYOND. we ARE THE CREATIVE CHILDREN OF A GROWING & ADAPTIVE CREATOR...it was the fear of mankind that created the word "sin" in the 4th chapter of Gen. Our Creator just told them what to expect NOT that they were wrong. Now I know there will be some of BLIND faith who CAN'T understand or won't understand or accept this explanation of a LOGICAL procession of possibilities recorded in layers of this planet than you don't believe in an intelligent Creator that in order to stay 'all knowing' it must have a constant input of information from all sources of life. A constant learning process.

  1. Renee J Bridges's Avatar Renee J Bridges

    What is this "&amp" that shows up in my sentences?

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Only using the 66 books called the bible does not give the full picture of our ancestors' understanding. Per the book of Jubilees: "And on the new moon of the fourth month, Adam and his wife went forth from the Garden of Eden, and they dwelt in the land of Elda in the land of their creation". Adam was taken from Elda then he was cleaned purified and sanctified before entering the Garden, and when they were banished they went back to the land where they were created. Now what's also missing is that Adam and Eve petitioned God to go back to Paradise and God granted their petition! Now the evil spirits petitioned to go back to the High Holy Heavens and God told them No - so we humans have good favor with God b/c of Adam and Eve. Now don't you think that the evil spirits don't like that? Now if the stronger human qualities survive and was passed down and we yes know certain things about human history through human bones then why haven't the qualities and strength of the human giants survived. There have been numerous discoveries of their bones - especially during the 17 and 1800s - 6 fingers 6 toes and 2 rows of teeth - so why isn't that common? God put them into extinction so that the unprotected humans of today wouldn't have to deal with human giants as well as arrogant scientists all at the same time. That's kind of a joke but we don't see 6 fingers and 6 toes on a regular basis for a reason. It would be easy to say that 6 fingers and toes has no advantage in our modern world when you don't have them!! Being a skeptic and a doubter is easy when we don't completely understand God. Don't some cultures look at time in cycles and not linear? And their understanding is totally put down and disrespected. Adam and Eve did something super unbelievable and we can't relate it - they stayed married for over 900 yrs without a divorce - yeah they went through a separation period but they never divorced and we can't believe that at all - how can ppl stay friends for that long? We sell ourselves short so easily and we don't even know it - most modern day scientists are big time skeptics filled with lots of doubt about our human Greatness but not ME - I see it all over the place!!!

    1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

      That's absolute nonsense, Holy Jesus people are so gullible !

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Modern day intellectuals would rather believe in big foot aliens and flying saucers instead of believing that we humans learn from the Angels (or for some ppl the evil spirits) and at times some humans have been carried to different realms/heavens by the Angels - the evil spirits can't do that but having those seriously cool connections and relationships is considered super far fetched and myth talk. But big foot who's TV name is Darryl has a connection to modern day humans and its all over TV - yall seen Darryl aka Big Foot on TV? When are the aliens coming in their super fast flying saucers? Christ said no one knows - not me or the Angels - know the day or the hour of my return except for my Father and when Christ does return we're told that the Angels will be right by his side. However modern day intellectuals will always doubt that and say: that ain't true cause the aliens are coming - not the British but the aliens. What does that have to do with evolution? Hate lies (like black ppl/Africans evolved from apes) arrogance (thinking certain ppl are superior aka the colonizers' myths about Africa) and greed has led the majority of modern day ppl into believing that the aliens are coming. We can't even believe that a better generation is coming that will see the hate and the lies, dissect the lies and then correct the lies and refuse to live by the lies - its called a generation that will rebel against rebellion hence better thinking. But who wants better thinking right now - per modern day thinking we got science and technology evolution money and material stuff and best of all we got big foot along with some aliens in those fast a.. flying saucers so we're super intelligent and super sophisticated!!! REALLY - SMH!!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Modern day intellectuals have so much angst against God and the Spiritual Realm that if they're told that they're Spiritually Gifted and Spiritual Great they'll quickly not believe it - a fabulous compliment does nothing to sway their thinking. Science and technology along with the theory of evolution has so disconnected modern day thinking from the Spiritual Realm that nothing that they come to understand will spark any interest - they've giving themselves over completely to the thinking that we humans have NO connection to the invisible aka the Spiritual Realm. God talks about mercy and forgiveness for all ppl and for all that we do but that still isn't enough. They can be told that no human has a completely dark soul and spirit - definitely not as dark as the evil spirits. Our darkest modern day humans - some would say like Hilter and maybe Stalin - are not as dark as the evil spirits - even their souls have a little light. Even that glowing compliment isn't enough to sway their thinking. Telling them that their physical body will change to a powerful Spiritual Body is not enough. Telling them that ALL babies of ALL skin colors who mis carry or are aborted or pass away prematurely b/c of neglect or bad judgment (thrown away into the garbage) or by evil spirit sacrifices are still saved by Christ and his special Care Taking Angels - even that understanding isn't enough. The only words that their itching ears like to hear is that we got science technology evolution material stuff money and we're smarter and better than all of those ppl in what we call 3rd world countries. How sad for them that they're not like us cause we're advanced ppl straight 1st world - insulated by our weapons and money - so who can touch us? Well God can - God touches ABSOLUTELY ALL b/c He dwells in everything - God says I dwell in the AIR My place of abode. Modern day intellectuals have such over blown egos that ALL glowing compliments that God bestows on His "intelligent" humans falls on hard hearted ears. The Word of God is alive and active - sharper than any double edged sword - it reaching down into the intentions of our heart and thoughts. Our motives and intentions is what our life review and judgment will be based on and no one receives any favoritism from God - just mercy through our Big Brother who sits on the Mercy Seat - isn't that great news - its definitely not like the bad news we see on 1st world TV!! Smh!!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Modern day intellectuals say that evolution is a well established theory that's taught as a part of science. Its been well established by ppl with an agenda and it is taught as if the scientists actually lived on this earth millions and millions yrs ago. Black ppl/Africans evolving from apes is the most well established part of the theory and no one has never seen that happen (an ape becoming human). As a black man with a Spiritual Family and a Spiritual Connection that teaching is blind non sense. My African ancestors built fabulous cities with libraries as well as flying vessels and they sailed around the world. The main lie of the European colonizers was that the Africans couldn't do all of that but again there's (((an oral tradition written history and archeology evidence))) with all of that but with the theory of evolution none of those criterion are met - NOT 1 ancient European scholar has ever purposed that theory or concept. There's ZERO evidence that proves that black ppl evolved from apes - no other culture in the history of mankind has any oral tradition or written history that co-signs evolution - NOT 1!! Why is that? B/c our ancestors understood the connection between the physical realm and the Spiritual Realm not the connection between apes and black ppl. Just b/c we need to create a theory and then put it a book and then teach it to unsuspecting minds doesn't make it true. Again the theory was thought up 1st and then some "evidence" was later "found" to prove it to "true" and that's called modern day science. I believe Europeans come from the evil spirits and now Imma find evidence and then put it in a book and teach it to unsuspecting minds and that's what we call modern day science. The way the Europeans treated Africans Native Americans the ppl of India and Chinese ppl shows traits of being super evil. Their conquering spirit which the Africans didn't have comes directly from the evil spirits. The Europeans' need for war division and competition comes directly from the play book of the evil spirits. So why don't we teach that - it ain't offensive at all b/c some ppl think its true. Just like some modern day intellectuals think that Africans evolving from apes isn't offensive b/c there are other scientists who agree with that. So don't be offended with being connected to the evil spirits - accept it as science - the gruesome wars and the petty divisions is the evidence that can found all over Europe - its science with actual evidence unlike with evolution - its blind science!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Modern day intellectuals tell us in a book that Europe is continent but Europe is NOT a continent its just a part of Asia hence Eurasia. But b/c its in a book and its taught by so called "intellectuals" with an agenda most ppl believe that little white lie - who believes that? Who believes that America and Eurasia has more atheist than Africa and South America. The theory of evolution has NOT taken hold in those areas of the world but its totally taken hold in America and in Eurasia and why is that? B/c that theory is the perfect thinking process to Ease God Out (EGO) which is 1 of the main agendas of the atheist movement or the evil spirits. To say that the theory can change as new evidence is found means that its really not that established and there are still some major holes in that theory. But in the minds of modern day intellectuals that theory actually fills a hole that they've already fallen into and that bottomless pit of false reasoning sprinkled with little white lies is where they wanna be!!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Modern day intellectuals won't attach the theory of evolution to Europeans only!! Why don't they just say that their ancestors came from apes and other ppl like the Africans Native Americans the ppl of India and the Chinese came the star ppl that they mention so much in their own traditions - why don't they just do that? Evidently they don't feel that comfortable with the theory to label themselves that way (((Europeans come directly from apes yall and they've established that fact through their own science))). In the writings of Marco Polo he said this about other European descriptions of China: he made a clear distinction that they are what he had heard rather than what he had seen. Also, from (Marco's descriptions of China) his accuracy is supported by archaeological evidence as well as Chinese records compiled after Polo had left China. The theory of evolution is something we have heard about but have not seen and its not supported by any archeology evidence or any ancient written records or oral traditions. Instead of just attaching themselves to that theory - as arrogant conquerors they had to keep reinforcing the myth about them being best of all ppl. And now they are over feeding themselves with that line of reasoning and they just can't stop eating lie of "We Da Best". Our eyes the atom and the universe itself disproves evolution. How much of an evolutionary change has our eyes made? Doesn't the atom have a mechanical mechanism which shows a designer and isn't the big bang theory changing as well as the age of universe? The theory of evolution is a shape shifter - its fluid like liquid - nothing is real solid about it - the best way to cancel it - is to vaporize it into thin AIR which is the abode of the ABSOLUTE TRUTH!!

  1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

    What a lie . There has never been one transitional fossil found anywhere in the world ! If Evolution weee true we would have a Gazillion transitional fossils, there would be so many we would be sick of looking at them ! So it’s a lie, move on

    1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

      We have found plenty of transitional fossils which support evolution... https://ncse.ngo/transitional-fossils-are-not-rare

      1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

        There are none, sorry your wrong !

        1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

          So the National Center for Science Education is lying? I provided you with a credible source that proves your belief to be incorrect and your answer is just "no I'm still right." If I'm wrong, provide me with some credible evidence that contradicts my source.

          1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

            That’s not credible Timmy, it’s delusional and a made up story, like I said where’s the billions of transitional fossils of every creature ?? Where is the address of one of the giant warehouses where we can all see them ?? Please we’re all waiting…

  1. Mark R Robles's Avatar Mark R Robles

    I started a comment on this on Facebook. So it might rea a bit different here.

    Evolution and Creation: In a report I received, there is a discussion in an ongoing lawsuit “Evolution is a Religion” not a “Science”. I never really looked at evolution as a religion, until I read this article. Here is what I do know, man cannot prove either one, evolution vs creation, none of us were there! Either one, you must have faith in, in fact. This was quite mind blowing and you hear all the time, “I believe in creation” or “I believe in evolution”. When I was out of the church for many years, I leaned on evolution, however, I always thought that it was all by God’s hand, yet I held true that we did not evolve from apes. In other words, sure big bang and here we are in this universe, through God’s hand. Then when I got back into the church, I am solid as can be in all things Creation. This is based on teaching in public schools’ evolution as a religion and that creation should be taught as well, leaving the students to decide which way to learn on and decide on based on individual faiths. This would be in fact the correct way to do this. In the article it said, “Science’, however, is not supposed to be something one ‘believes’. Science is knowledge—that which can be demonstrated and observed and repeated. Evolution cannot be proved, or even tested; it can only be believed.” The things you learn. I never really looked at it like this until I read this article. I know this is different than what I usually post. I usually post scriptures and discuss what I felt from it or little quotes from songs that are on my mind. So here is where I stand in this: Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” Genesis 1:3 Let there be light Genesis 1:6 Land and divide it from the waters Genesis 1:11 Grass, herb yielding seed, the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind Genesis 1:15 Stars and moon Genesis 1:20 Animals of the waters Genesis 1:24 Animals on land Genesis 1:26 “And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.” Genesis 2:2 Rest. You might not think this is part of creation, however it is. This day of rest later became Sabbath which later became the day of the week Jesus (God robed in flesh) rose from the dead, the most supreme work of the Lord for us ever accomplished (Research shows he died and buried on a Friday and rose on Sunday based on the way they calculated the days of the week back then). If you tie that in with all the examples of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John of the examples of acceptable work to do on a Sunday you accomplish “let us make man in our image” in Genesis. Make man in our image. That is to follow His Word and take care of His creation, it’s what He created us to do from the very beginning. Creation is where I firmly stand. However, we are each given free will, therefore, public schools should teach both, and let each student decide which path they want to take based on what they have faith to believe. The very definition applies to faith, whatever you have faith in. Hebrews 11:1 “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen”. I have faith that my automatic dishwasher cleans the dishes, and without being able to go in there and watch the thing clean the dishes, faith is all I got. All I know is they go in dirty and come out clean. We are all born with a portion of faith and free will, God just sits back, gentleman that He is, to watch us decide the path we want to go, in hopes we chose Him, His Word, His Works, His laws and so on. I love doing these. Some of you might not care for these posts, but they are there for those who enjoy them. There is no one or nothing I am pointing at here. Just the research of the Word I enjoy doing.

    Amen!

  1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

    This discussion got weird in a hurry

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Modern day intellectuals like to use catholicism and rome as their shining example of Christianity...catholicism is the worse point of reference to use to understand Christianity!! Christianity started in Ethiopia 🇪🇹 therefore Ethiopia should be the 1st point of reference...European history is filled war and paganism and catholicism is just dressed paganism. B/c modern day intellectuals are using catholicism as their example of Christianity, they can easily discount it b/c catholicism is filled with hypocrisy...catholicism doesn't even teach the right day of God's Rest so we know its counterfeit...catholicism has set a bad example of the Christian Walk whereas Ethiopia 🇪🇹 has NOT...Ethiopia has set a great example of the Christian Walk but b/c its in Africa Ethiopia 🇪🇹 is totally disrespected by modern day intellectuals and we all know its disrespected...American TV constantly shows Ethiopia as 3rd world ppl who are poor and hunger and yet we have the same poverty and hunger in America as well as in Europe...that's a move to disrespect and discount their intelligence but I don't go for that fake out move!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Modern day scientists like to say their smarter than their ancestors and there is no Creator God and that's their choice...IT DOES NOT MAKE THEM SUPERIOR...I choose to say that my ancestors were smarter than me and there's a Creator God and it doesn't make me superior. The average modern day intellectual has not read all of the books that rome removed from the Holy Scriptures so their understanding is limited therefore they can be skeptical of God. Just like I haven't read all of the books about evolution so I can skeptical about evolution but still doesn't make either of us smarter or superior. Modern day intellectuals try to present an argument that believing in God is a weakness and the God of the Holy Scriptures is the blame for Europeans being war like and dressing up their paganism and calling it catholicism. Ethiopia 🇪🇹 calls it the influence of the evil spirits to be that bold to change God's 4th commandment!!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Modern day scientists and intellectuals would rather reference Buddhism as a positive source to help build humanity's goodness and that's b/c Buddhism doesn't believe in an Intelligent Creator God who thought up everything to create...in Buddhism they believe that knowledge is unnecessary to contemplate which is fine b/c they don't believe no human is more superior smarter or better than another human. No one is equal to no one we all have qualities that's better than someone else...there are ppl stronger faster and smarter than me and that's OK...it doesn't make me inferior to them. Men and women are not equal just like men and men and women and women aren't equal. Americans and Europeans like to play the blame game and the who's superior game that's why they love war and they love to create a hierarchy of ppl like the Germans are the best Italians are black and Africans are animals...that's how most Americans and Europeans reference their existence!!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Modern day scientists and intellectuals are subtly trying to tell us that humans are inherently bad or barbaric and savage...if humans come from apes then humans had to learn from apes and the apes taught humans to barbaric and war like...modern day intellectuals can't accept that God (((who thought up everything to create))) created humans as inherently good and to have super awesome intelligence...for God said: our human intelligence comes from the swiftness of the Angels and its design for sweetness or (harmony relationships) which we clearly don't see on a consistent basis in war like America and Eurasia. The leaders in most of those countries operate in the space of disharmony more often than not!! War like leaders produce war like citizens!!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    The fossil record shows more evidence of a flood than evolution...there are sea fossils recorded on top of mountains and just b/c insects can defeat pesticides that doesn't prove evolution...a scientist said humans are 1 chromosome away from an ape...so what...that 1 chromosome still reveals we're different in alot of different ways...wanting to find physical similarities can be found between all physical matter...big deal...our eyes are made from the sun but no one go to the sun to make that physical comparison but when we change to Spirit our eyes change into flames of fire like the sun...some say evolution and miracles are similar...I can easily say I never saw evolution but I have seen plenty of miracles like someone being healed from a disease a sickness or an injury without any medical help...for modern day intellectuals that's just nothing to them but for the person who's life was changed it was a miracle that science and doctors couldn't achieve...they have to sit down be quiet when events like that happen!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    The discussion got weird b/c some ppl don't go for the line of reasoning that evolution purports...the theory of evolution is trying so hard to prove that God is not an Intelligent Creator and Designer that its stumbling all over itself and constantly changing its premise...using catholicism as an example of Christianity and mature Spirituality is the wrong premise...catholicism is NOT built on the right foundation of God's Spirituality and most ppl KNOW THAT!!!

    1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

      that could be true except for one thing, evolution is a real thing and everything you espouse is just make-believe, made-up, children's fairy tales.

      funny who people who understand science (and by extension, evolution) simple state known facts whereas those of the...religious ilk, claim everything they say, know, believe in is undeniable truth and yet...with absolutely NOTHING to prove their religious beliefs but their religious beliefs to prove their religious beliefs to prove their religious beliefs to prove their religious beliefs to prove their religious beliefs to prove their religious beliefs to prove their religious beliefs to prove their religious beliefs to prove their religious beliefs to prove their religious beliefs

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Who doesn't know that European history is filled with paganism and war like ppl and Europeans were historically known as war like and very barbaric ppl? Who doesn't know that catholicism is just dressed up paganism and God's Day of Rest is on Saturday not Sunday? Some ppl try to debate that but that can't be debated b/c counting to 7 is super easy even a 1st grader can count to 7...the lies and more lies like easter christmas the new year being in the dead of winter sunday worship and so many other accessories that don't mesh with the Holy Scriptures is amazing and most Americans and Europeans accept it and eat it up every Sunday which is the 1st day of the week...I guess most Americans and Europeans can't count to 7 they tend to get confused after the #2...ppl who believe in the theory of evolution can easily highlight the hypocrisy of catholicism and say that catholicism does nothing to help build a good and mentally healthy society and they would be right and I totally agree with that!!!

  1. Rudolph M Garza's Avatar Rudolph M Garza

    A Catholic point of view from from Google AI Overview:

    Evolution guided by God: The Catholic Church believes that evolution was guided by God, which is different from fundamentalist Christians who believe in the creation story in Genesis.

    Catholics are free to choose: Catholics are free to accept or reject any part of evolutionary theory.

    Theistic evolution: The Catholic Church supports theistic evolution, also known as evolutionary creation.

    Catholic schools teach evolution: Catholic schools teach evolution as part of their science curriculum.

    Jesuit influence: Jesuit priest and scientist Erich Wasmann was a leading voice in the late 19th and early 20th century in promoting the compatibility of evolution and the Christian faith.

    Pope Francis: Pope Francis has written favorably about evolution and called for harmony between science and religion.

    1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

      Rudolph M Garza,

      Does that surprise you? The Catholic Church is well known for its diplomacy!

      1. Rudolph M Garza's Avatar Rudolph M Garza

        Comment removed by user.

      2. Rudolph M Garza's Avatar Rudolph M Garza

        Comment removed by user.

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Its easy for most American and European scientists and intellectuals to say that they're smarter than their ancestors b/c their ancestors were WAR like and didn't leave any spiritual words of significance. My ancestors were taken to the Heavens/Spiritual Realm and they left spiritual words for me to read. My ancestors like Adam and Eve was super smart b/c they wasn't afraid to ask questions and ask for extra help. My ancestors not only passed down their words but also the words of the Angels - and that takes intelligence. My ancestors did the hard part to help make my life be a little easier. My ancestors were smart enough to preserve those words and also smart enough to protect those words from war like ppl like the Arabs and the Europeans and that's major!! So yes, my ancestors are definitely smarter than me plus they could tell the difference between an Angel a fallen angel a human giant and a "God created human" which is ppl like me!! Most Europeans can't give their ancestors those type of flowers cause all they see and hear from their ancestors is war war war which is their calling card. I'm so proud of my ancestors - had they not persevered certain WORDS I wouldn't be able to appreciate God and His Creation the way I do. Oh yeah my ancestors never worshipped money and they never tried to be conquerors of ppl as well as mother nature especially on a worldwide scale - that's a Eurasian trait - and that trait is still celebrated - we see it through the celebration of confederate soldiers - don't we?

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    What the catholic church does - is not surprising at all and it makes total sense from them to snake their way into the discussion that way. They wanna act like they're representing God's knowledge and goodness when in reality they're doing the complete opposite. The decisions of the catholic church is so secular its sad - the catholic church is in bed with all the wrong groups of ppl - that's the wrong source to use to say Christians should accept evolution - they can't count to 7 so they less than elementary in their Christian Walk - they still like pre school in their understanding - they super weak with no credibility!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Why WON'T the catholic church advise ppl to keep the Sabbath on Saturday which is the 7th day and why don't they highlight the Feast of Trumpets the Day of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacle? Why is our Saviors born day on Dec 25th and why is the new year during dead of winter when most cultures kept it in the spring when Mother Nature becomes new again. What do rabbits 🐇 and eggs have to do with Christ? The catholic church is a joke - the hypocrisy too self evident. Didn't the catholic church accept hitler for a second? Not a good look cause it can weaken their credibility especially for ppl who are really paying attention and DON'T go for the fake out move!!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Part of intelligence is asking the right questions part of knowledge is knowing the answers but it can be dangerous cause the knowledge can be given out in a tricky way. We're told by God to go to our WISDOM and use HIS WORD for sound advice and counseling. But any human can masquerade themselves and say this is real knowledge while knowing its not hence the catholic church. They KNOW that books have been taken out and libraries were burned b/c they encouraged it - ask the right questions use your WISDOM and use GOD'S ENTIRE WORD!!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    We're all free to make our choices as long as we don't think we're superior or better than the next person. The American hate system is set up in controversy and the American hate system is the most bitter and vicious of all hate systems in the world and that's b/c of African slavery - plain and simple. The average American white person thinks they're superior smarter and better than any good black person - most can't see hear or even contemplate equality between black and white ppl. There's a prophecy in Daniel about the feet and the toes on a statue - that description is America - weak and strong. Weak in harmony strong in arrogance so it gets smashed by a ROCK and not Iraq!! Calling America united is a misnomer - she likes to masquerade as being good but she always reneges on ALL her treaties and peace agreements and that's definitely not a good look!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    Death is the greatest equalizer to life - so for most atheist and the ppl who believe in evolution death is our finality (worm food). OK so no one knows exactly how we got here and no one knows exactly what happens after death. So what modern day scientists and intellectuals are saying is that our ancestors never asked the question of how we got here and what happens after death. They pretend like those question about our humanity just came up yesterday. OK if they're so smart why don't they ask this question: what will ppl look like after they die - now our ancestors asked that question and they got an answer. Now anyone can NOT believe the descriptions in the answer but at least the question was asked and again anyone can choose not to believe the given answer but at least respect the question especially since modern day intellectuals didn't come up with the same question nor have a description to share!! FYI: all of the descriptions I've read have been exciting positive and powerful and that resonates with me but just being worm food that doesn't resonate at all - that sounds so boring 🥱 !!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    God said: My Angels don't even understand My Creating - so if His Angels can't figure it out we humans (((especially modern day scientists))) definitely can't figure it out. God said: I took some light and some darkness and I said "Be Thick" and it became water - the lightening comes from the gleam of My Eye and I commanded My Wisdom to create My Humans with 7 natures and with 7 consistencies. Per the book of Jubilees God created or He completed 22 major accomplishments to His physical creation in 6 days then He rested. He used 2 Angels to lay the foundation of the physical or lower realm that's why the Angels shouted for joy and that's why they're so invested and involved with humanity's fate!! For most modern day scientists and intellectuals this is some unbelievable "ish" and it means nothing to them b/c the theory of evolution is the theory of their EGO (Easing God Out)!!

  1. Taurence Duvael Chisholm's Avatar Taurence Duvael Chisholm

    The only real fact that the theory of evolution can present is that nature itself naturally changes and they act like that's a big time revelation. Our ancestors understood that nature goes through different changes so that's like a boring wow - my ancestors understood biology chemistry and physics.The biggest leap of faith with the theory of evolution is the fairy tale that humans come from apes and our modern day intellectuals are goin to stick to that idea like stink on "ish". Somebody please give us some type of evidence (((some type of quote!!!))) that shows that our ancient ancestors shared that same idea about humans coming from apes...I mean if humans really came from apes and supposedly humans came out of Africa then why don't we have any corroborating writings to verify that fairy tale. When humans 1st started to write if that was really true they would have written about it - don't try to insult our intelligence with hollow words from nowhere. All of the writings from Ethiopia Egypt Ghana and even Saudi Arabia 🇸🇦 Persia India China the Mayans and even Europe itself says nothing close to that (i.e. humans come from apes). Just b/c nature goes through different changes doesn't prove evolution. Most ppl know that if someone creates a cat mixed with a dog the offspring will be sterile and that new mixed offspring will not be able to produce more cat-dog mixes - now that's a scientific fact. If 2 cats of different types have an offspring then that offspring won't always be sterile and that's a fact that science can prove. All of the other mumbo jumbo is phony EGO talk - please share what discovery has substantially proven evolution mainly humans coming from apes? If you identify with apes and you want them to be a part of your genealogy then so be it - my genealogy begins with Adam and Eve and I consider them to be the superstars of my family. Modern day intellectuals want some ape parents to be their superstars - what kind of line of reasoning is that - ape superstars in their family genealogy and they proud of that - they so proud of that they tying to convince us that our genealogy starts with ape parents as well - now that's some bold strong arm "ish" - this what they really saying: we goin make your genealogy start with apes whether you like it or not!! NOT!!!

    1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

      your understanding of evolution, human evolution, science and nature is practically null. the 'things' you write are ramblings of bits and pieces of things you think are facts, mixed in with made up facts and set in nonsense. for writings are humorous but I'm pretty sure that's not what you were going for

  1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

    For the last time for all the fools out there . There are no transitional fossils. Zero…There is no argument, God created everything from nothing, save your breath and move on

    1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

      Mrknowitall

      Sep 23, 2024 at 06:26 pm

      For the last time for all the fools out there

      There is no god, there is no proof. zero...There is no argument. Evolution created everything from nothing, safe your breath and move on

      1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

        Maybe you'll give me a name and address of one of the hundreds of museums holding all the transitional fossils that exist ?? I'm waiting.

        1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

          You can go to Chicago's Field Museum to see one: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/chicago-museum-unveils-the-most-important-fossil-ever-discovered-the-feathered-dinosaur-archaeopteryx-180984312/

          1. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

            If mrknewitall wanted he could easily google "list of transitional fossils" and peruse hundreds of resources from which to learn the truth. I suspect he's a board member of answers in genesis where intelligence goes to die

          2. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

            Good grief Charlie Brown, another wild forgery made up from a fantasy world. They took bones of a dinosaur and added wings with feathers. Holy Christmas you've got to be completely Ignorant to believe that, don't you think for a minute that the museum would have millions of transitional fossils found over the last 3500 years ?

            1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

              Classic. Call it a forgery with zero evidence and call us ignorant for believing people who's careers are to study this and present their findings to the world.

              Meanwhile you believe the absolute truth was written in a book by men thousands of years ago and all of these wild miracles that sound like they are from a fantasy novel happen in it yet you still believe that these miracles most definitely happened, despite the Bible being the only book that corroborates said miracles.

              Christians have been calling fossils fake for generations in an attempt to discredit evolution and any rational, critically thinking person would be able to see the strong evidence for evolution. There's testing that has been done and fossils that corroborate evolutionary theory.

              What you're really arguing is that there is a grand conspiracy within the scientific community to put false evidence of evolution into the world for centuries in order to discredit all other theories of how our world came to be. Such a grand conspiracy would require so many people to remain silent for their entire lives about this deceit that it's absurd to think such a conspiracy exists.

              1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

                A grand conspiracy it is. Anytime you draw a picture from one’s imagination and pose it as factual means it’s a fraud, a fake and a wild forgery like Piltdown man and the rest, your gullible to anything that feeds your hatred toward God

              2. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                I don't hate God, I don't believe in a God. You're the one who is gullible enough to believe that anything in the Bible is truthful and blind to any evidence that contradicts your faith.

          3. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

            Michael Hunt,

            They didn't want to call it God's creation, so they came out with evolution!

            Then they found the bones of ancient dragons, so they said: there must have been dinosaurs!

            What sophism!

        2. Rev. Dr. Father JJ's Avatar Rev. Dr. Father JJ

          due to your rather aggressive cognitive dissonance I doubt that you'd be able to recognize a transitional fossil if it sat up and barked at you

          yet transitional fossils DO exist whether or not you can accept scientific truth. but I suppose you beliefs go hand-in-hand with a flat earth theory as well, amirite?

          evolution is pretty simple to prove but you have to start at the beginning and work your way through the evidence, understanding how these things are made, found, identified and classified.

          what you want is to dig a hole and find the entire series of evolutionary changes, like the image of a knuckled-ragging prot-hominid (floridian) up through erect walking Homo sp

          instead you just bark out that evolution is false and people who believe in it are fools (your statement up above). so one HAS to ask, what is it about nature, science facts and truths that upsets you the most? truths? facts? I'd really love to hear why you are not just against evolution, but so angry about it

          1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

            You are a hater for starters, so you Googled transitional fossils and there are hundreds of them ?? Really ? Like I said you lack reason and when shown to be completely wrong you defend your lies to the end of time...Can you please give me the address to one of the hundreds of museums holding the untold millions of transitional fossils ?? Yea, didn't think so.

            1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

              I gave you a museum you could go to and you called the fossil a forgery. Go to your local natural history museum and you're likely to find a transitional fossil there.

              You're not discussing this in good faith because you can't accept any stance but your own. We have presented you scientific papers supporting evolution and examples of transitional fossils and yet you believe you've shown us to be completely wrong and lying.

              It's impossible to reason with you because you are so brainwashed into believing the Bible is the one and only truth that any evidence to the contrary of your beliefs that is presented to you, you immediately find a fallacious reason for dismissing the evidence and call us wrong with nothing but your word to support your stance.

              1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

                Like I said and will not say again, there are zero transitional fossils, I’ve been to history museums and read. Your hatred to the thought of a creator drives you mad, you point to pictures and say whoa a transitional fossil….Sorry we would have giant warehouses overflowing with them. When I’m wrong I’m wrong I learn, but you press on with delusional lies….Romans 10:9 to you, best wishes

              2. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

                You've clearly shown that you don't learn when you're wrong because several people have provided evidence that contradicts you but you still deny the evidence.

          2. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

            Rev. Dr. Father JJ,

            What you describe is the process of human wisdom faced with evidence of creation. Human wisdom cannot grasp the terms of creation, let alone how we perceive our experience of time after the fall from grace.

            The Bible says that fear of the Lord is the beginning of true wisdom, knowledge (aka science), and clear understanding. Wisdom is a person, identified as or mother in Proverbs 8-9: Lady Wisdom, aka Holy Spirit.

            She gives birth to God's Word (aka Yeshua), and in him, we find salvation from the fall, back to grace. Yeshua means: God saves.

            You reject this very notion, that true knowledge is rooted in the things of God, and that the human mind can fathom the terms of the origin of existence. That is irrational a best.

      2. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

        I don’t have many words left for those who have no reason . Do the energy for your big bang just evolved until ??? Yea I get it

      3. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

        And where exactly JJ is your proof that there is no deity. C'mon we are waiting and I will bet that in 1000 years we will still be waiting on you to show your proof.

      4. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

        Rev. Dr. Father JJ,

        The Bible says: only the fool says there is no God!

        Mark these words!

  1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

    But but but but but evolution is a fact because they used carbon dating they claim. Oh really? you mean THIS carbon dating?

    "there are so few atoms to count; even a little extra carbon from contamination will throw off the results significantly. A million-year-old sample contaminated by only a tiny amount of carbon could yield an invalid age of 40,000 years, for example. Other dating methods have different strengths." https://news.uchicago.edu/explainer/what-is-carbon-14-dating

    The slow, steady process of Carbon-14 creation in the upper atmosphere has been dwarfed in the past centuries by humans spewing carbon from fossil fuels into the air. Since fossil fuels are millions of years old, they no longer contain any measurable amount of Carbon-14 Smithsonian Museum

    Inaccuracies in radiocarbon dating https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/06/180605112057.htm

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5774753/ Radiocarbon dating uncertainty and the reliability of the PEWMA method of time-series analysis for research on long-term human-environment interaction

    However, there are several limitations to carbon-14 dating. Due to the short half-life of carbon-14, organic artifacts over 50,000 to 60,000 years old cannot be accurately dated. Additionally, samples can be contaminated by the organic matter in contact with the artifact. So you mean this carbon dating that even the experts are saying is inaccurate?

    1. Michael Hunt's Avatar Michael Hunt

      Per your own post, "Other dating methods have different strengths." Carbon dating isn't the primary method of dating the Earth. The primary dating method used to determine the age of the Earth is radiometric dating, which relies on the predictable decay of radioactive isotopes like uranium, potassium, and lead, providing accurate age estimates for events dating back to the Earth's formation, which is estimated to be around 4.5 billion years old. There are plenty of ways of corroborating the scientific belief that the Earth is that old and not about 6000 years like Genesis suggests.

      1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

        Anytime you have to assume it’s wrong and all dating has assumptions so none of it is credible. Is the earth 10,000 years old ? Is it 10 billion years old, we weren’t there and No one knows !

  1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

    2 Corinthians 10:4-5 AMPC

    For the weapons of our warfare are not physical [weapons of flesh and blood], but they are mighty before God for the overthrow and destruction of strongholds, [Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One)

  1. Pastor George Day's Avatar Pastor George Day

    Colossians 3:2 AMP

    Set your mind and keep focused habitually on the things above [the heavenly things], not on things that are on the earth [which have only temporal value].

  1. Mrknowitall's Avatar Mrknowitall

    Those who say there are a few transitional fossils because they saw some drawings are completely ignorant. We should have millions of fossils showing every stage of development from every creature known to man…..Why would I expect more from people when 42% of Americans are OK with the direction of the Democrats Government, Satan rules the earth by using Democrats

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