civil rights, martin luthor king jr, oscars, academy awardsSome time ago, we posted a blog that said, "hate is hate," wherein we looked at the similar feelings behind movements such as blaming and gassing Jews for Germany's problems and the rise of the Nazi party as well as the defense of slavery in the American south that compelled states to secede and form the Confederate States of America. These were both examples where the hatred (or at the very least, the indifference to the suffering) of a group of people drastically changed law and politics of the respective regions.

Having seen the Academy Awards, we are aware that the film Selma depicts a benchmark in our history when blacks fought back against the institutionalized racism of the old Confederate States at the time. We think the time is ripe again to revisit our artwork wherein we designate, regardless of whether it be segregationists, crazed fundamentalists, Klan members, or Islamic jihadists, hate is still hate. Flags of hate have no right to fly on the capitals of the new neo-Confederacy.

There are many that defend flying the Confederate battle flag as an expression of their heritage, but it is as evil as the ISIS flag. Slavery, murder, insurrection, and the assassination of President Lincoln; these actions of terror were born in the bottomless pit of Hell.

We can never allow these acts the dignity of the word "heritage". While for a white man the stars and bars may remind him of where he came from and his family history, it evokes for descendants of raped slaves a heritage of being treated as property. Notwithstanding, no Germans fondly fly the Nazi flag and defend it by saying that they aren't racist, they are just proud of their heritage.

These flags symbolize the racist views of their creators; claiming otherwise is to deny the horrific acts committed under these banners. We can't allow the violence to be whitewashed out of our history books your thoughts?

Violent Expansion

Comparing things to Hitler and the Nazis is nothing new on the internet. There's even a term for doing it: Godwin's Law. It happens so much that it isn't unreasonable to think that the severity of Nazi crimes is somewhat trivialized by how often they are equated to far lessor events. A survivor of the Holocaust would likely be shocked to hear, "the cop gave me a parking ticket even though the meter had only run out a minute ago, what a Nazi!"

The evil of Hitler and the Nazis is rare, but not totally unique and valid comparisons can be made. True, ISIS doesn't have the military capabilities that Germany had at the time and the Confederate States of America (CSA) preferred to beat, rape, and enslave their victims over killing them, but the same hate is there.slavery, american civil war, lashings

The key to understanding the similarities between Nazism, Confederate States of America racist expansionism, and Islamic State Neo-Caliphate ideology is in the motto on the latter's flag. The ISIS flag contains an Arabic statement, "B qiyah wa-Tatamaddad," which translates to "Remaining and Expanding." The state that ISIS has established claims sovereignty and plans to conquer other territories-- more than proven by the state's organized attacks and occupations of areas held by other sovereign nations.

The use of violence to not just promote an ideology, but to expand it to new places, is the very essence of fascism. The CSA sought to conquer or convert their surrounding areas to pro-slavery states ruled with institutionalized racism. The Third Reich under Adolf Hitler boiled over and scorched Europe with their anti-Semitic empire. The Islamic State aims to use beheadings and burning people alive to spread a hateful ideology.

Members of all three barbaric groups are instilled with the notion that dying for their sinful causes is a virtue. This forces the rest of us into a fight whether we want anything to do with it or not because the aggressors will only allow peace over their cold dead bodies. Their hatred has made them so rabid that debate and diplomacy are no longer viable options.

The film Selma shows us that even after the existence of the CSA itself, the repercussions of its ideology stained the region for decades. The same will be true with ISIS, should we even manage to eradicate it. The strong tensions between local groups will cause strife that will live on even after ISIS is dead and gone. That's the power of hatred; dressing it up under a different flag still allows us to see through it. Hate is hate. Do you agree?



  1. Ty Ford's Avatar Ty Ford

    Yes, "Hate is hate." If you deny who hates and for what reasons, there are similarities. Hitler and Isis can be condemned. Slavery can be condemned, but there's more to it. Hitler was about dealing with a burgeoning population and coming up with an abomination of an idea to solve that problem and how to "purify" the country.

    Slavery in the south was not about eradicating a race. It was about forcing people to work in agriculture and houses in order to build the fortunes of the landowners. Without slavery the entire business of the south would fail because there would not be enough labor force to get the work done.

    The CSA was more like the British Colonial societal model; with upper class and lower class distinctions. Was/Is there hate between the British classes? As long as each person "knows his or her place", things seem to run "properly."

    The Indian Caste System (created by the British in India between 1860 and 1920) is another acknowledgement that people stratify themselves and make judgements about each other in groups. On a certain level, that's as hateful as Hitler or Isis. Yet people fawn over Downton Abbey and apparently don't see that societal model as a problem, nor do they associate it with hatred.

    In the USA, there is even friction among blacks. Not often discussed is a bias against how black one's skin is. On Dr. Paul Christo's "Aches And Gains", Ms. Faith Ringgold, an award winning African American artist, author, anti-racism activist and feminist movement advocate to discuss the racial disparities that exist in the understanding and treatment of pain. In that interview she points to evidence that, "We are all black", having descended from races in Ethiopia thousands of years ago.

    I think hatred can take many forms. Self-hatred is another. If I hate myself, one way of feeling better about "me" is to attempt to elevate myself at the cost of denigrating someone else. If we solved the problem of self-hate, I think we'd all be better off. Not an easy thing to do!

    And speaking of "barbaric groups", how barbaric were those who came to North America from Europe to extinguish Native Americans? Yankee Imperialism. Please do not hesitate to look down THAT rabbit hole for hate.

    I guess my point is that this should not be a discussion about "them" and what "they" did wrong. Instead, it should be discussion about "us" and what "we" did wrong. There's more than enough to go around. :)

    1. Steven McGhee's Avatar Steven McGhee

      You should probably study some history before posting. Only 6% of the population of the Confederate States of America owned slaves. Why do you try to imply that a War over States Rights was over slavery when every shred of evidence, including Lincoln's personal papers, say otherwise. It was about hate, the same hate that made the New Englanders leave England to begin with. The fight between North and South was going on during colonial times, and continues today. At that particular juncture the War was over the US Constitution, the South insisted that the Federal government abide by the Constitution, Lincoln refused (much like Obama). Try looking up Morrill Act/Morrill Tarriff. Regarding the last paragraph, what have I done wrong? I have never owned a slave, I have never denied housing to anyone, I have never refused to hire anyone who was qualified for the job I was offering at the time, and the only negative experience I have had with a homosexual was one who just couldn't keep their hands to themselves. What do I have to be sorry for? Maybe it is the hate mongers that try to find trouble, and make trouble when they can't find it, that should be ashamed....

      1. Silver's Avatar Silver

        You are completely correct. Too often people speak (post) with little to no knowledge to the facts. The War between the States was quite a bit more involved than the thought of a bunch of White ( let's us not forget that Blacks and Indians were slavers as well) slave holders fighting to keep their slaves. As previously stated secession was about getting the Federal government to stand by and obey the Constitution ad it was intended after the South tried to work things out peacefully for decades prior, notably tariff laws.c

      2. Fred Armstrong's Avatar Fred Armstrong

        What Constitutional clause or authority has the President refused to abide to?

        Hate typically reacts with anger and venom when exposed for what it is.

      3. Dr. David's Avatar Dr. David

        No, it was about slavery. If not, why was there the Emancipation Declaration? You are trying to rewrite history, very common among certain groups of people. It is similar to Lee being a great General and American and following what was right by going with the state and ignoring the oath he'd made to his country when joining the military. Lee was a traitor, pure and simple. When the "CSA" recognizes they lost the country can move forward, until then we will have what we have now. That is hate, holding others back because of narrow attitudes and not believing the truth.

        Your bigotry shows by stating Obama has broken Constitutional Law, I have not seen that at all.

        1. Silver's Avatar Silver

          Emancipation Proclamation was nothing more than a political move to refocus the war from "saving the union" and enforcing federal control. It also helped prevent the direct involvement of foreign nations in the War between the States.

          The Emancipation Proclamation only applied to states in rebellion as an act in hopes to crippling the Southern war effort. With this being said one must note that Lincoln had no "love" and very little care for the slaves (as equals) as he noted numerous tymes that they were not equal to the White race.

        2. William LaFrance's Avatar William LaFrance

          If you think Obama has not broken Constitutional Law, you are either Stupid or you know nothing about the Constitution. It's also evident that you know nothing about the Civil War or General Lee. and you certainly know nothing about the South It is better to keep you mouth shut and let people wonder whether you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubts. You need to get rid of your hate for the South.

      4. H.G's Avatar H.G

        How about just being SORRY? Mantra the word and a slur of your emotion will thrive. Try it you have nothing to loose..<3

        1. Pastor Deb's Avatar Pastor Deb

          Here's a question for all:

          Why does the US seem to have to take the brunt for all of slavery? It existed long before the US, was commonplace throughout the Bible and history, yet whenever a conversation about slavery comes up, it really only involves what terrible beasts Americans were for owning slaves at a time when much of the world did.

          Let me make it perfectly clear, I'm against slavery, but really people, the US didn't invent slavery, we didn't "perfect" it's use, in fact, we weren't even the last country to end slavery. So why is it that any conversation about slavery concerns only the US?

    2. Dan Dukes's Avatar Dan Dukes

      Sadly and unfortunately, hate has been and will always be. It is alive and well today and spreading faster than wild rabbits! Hate is sanctioned, sponsored, financed, and legally authorized right here today in the good old USA from the lowest places on high and cascading down to the main streets, the mean streets, and in a place soon to be near you. Hate seems to be an unfortunate element of the DNA of the human species that will not be eradicated. The likelihood that we will all fall to the strength of this weakness is ever-increasingly assured!

    3. Doug Barron's Avatar Doug Barron

      Good points and good rebuttal! Well reasoned. Hitlers hate was for a political purpose, southern slavery was for an economic purpose, British classism was for economic and imperialistic purpose. ISIS' hate is purely idealogical. Islam in it's very basest form. Ideology/religion is a very good pursuit until it is twisted and used to fill the innate evil desire and pride present in all men. I choose to follow the way of my Lord Jesus- Messiah, who said all law and prophets are summed up in one statement, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself." He didn't qualify which neighbor, He implied ALL neighbors! No exclusion there. Eliminated the pursuit of hate toward anyone in one statement. No doctrines, agendas or pogroms. God will judge those who love themselves at the expense of others.

    4. Barbara's Avatar Barbara

      Power and history aside, I will limit my remarks to this: the line between good and evil runs through the heart of every person.

      When we discuss hatred or evil as "out there," there is no acknowledgement of the capacity for violence and inhumanity in everyone, nor assumption that each of us is responsible to standards of decency (including efforts to avoid silent acquiescence regarding injustices --- however awkward or imperfect they may be). Remaining silent is a passive form of consent.

      I have helplessly experienced cruelty and I know love. Whether in Abu Grave, Auschwitz, the Killing Fields of Cambodia, Uganda, Ruwanda, you name it... this "insanity" has a long history. I have asked how such barbarism and cruelty can continue and wondered at its persistence. It seems so wrong. With decades as an observer of life and a student of human behavior, I assert that the common denominator in all dictators and despots is the absence of love and trust. No one who has experienced love, caring, and compassion of another, who knows that trust and kindness exist, could stomach treating others with incomprehensible cruelty (by standard norms the world over).

      Yet there are answers. I have found them (both personally and in larger scope). While the roots of hatred and cruelty lie in intergenerational complexities, it does help to consider different perspectives (political, religious, economic, historical, sociological, family-of-origin systems, etc.) and understand what multiple disciplines (history, biology, psychology, etc.) contribute to answering the puzzle. Without this approach, many striving to understand the incomprehensible try to make sense of human cruelty and hatred often misunderstand one another. If we are overly invested in being right," it can be hard if not impossible to truly listen. Letting it remain "a mystery" allows this to continue.

    5. Runt Thornton's Avatar Runt Thornton

      No I don't agree with any of this nonsence. You can interpret that twenty ways of Sunday. But the flag represents no more than our southern heritage of the soldiers who fought and died during the senceless war. There were just as many yankees that owned slaves too. It wasn't about slavery, it was about greed of the northerners wanting gold and power. I could go on but the argument isn't worth it. HATE IS NOT HERITAGE!!!!!!

  1. tomarseneault's Avatar tomarseneault

    A little bit of a rewrite of history there, the Civil War was not fought by the south to expand slavery (that was never a goal of the south, all they ever really asked for was a law to return escaped slaves to there owners) nor was it fought by the North to end slavery. It was all about states rights vs the federal government, Secession being the right in question. Slavery was an adjunt issue. The south was under presure to end slavery but not, mainly, from the fed at the time. Also this was at the beginning of the industrial revolution and the south was the economic power house with its large exports of cotton and tobaco (heavely reliant on slavery I grant you). Many powerful southners were getting tired of supporting the north and felt it would be better for the south to break away and go on its own. They tried to seceed, the north did not agree, hence the war.

    Abolisionist were a small but vocal (and some times violent) minority at the time. So it was the north trying to change the south and not the other way around. The majority of northerners either were not against slavery or just did not give a rats bottom one way or the other. It was not till near the end of the war when slavery became a key issue.

    The flag itself never did, in and of itself, represent slavery or its expansion. The south represented slavery and the flag represented the south, thus to most northerners the flag came to represent slavery. But to most southners (please,if you are from the south tell me if I am wrong. Southern blacks have there own much deserved opinion of the flag) it represents independance, from the north or from the norm. The flag itself did not even exist until the civil war began. The ISIS and Nazi flags from there very begining represented expansion of their evil. The Nazi flag represented the Nazi party who instatutionalized the systematic extermination of the Jews and the right of the Nazi party to rule the world and the ISIS flag represents a very distorted view of Islam. Note that the vast majority of ISIS violence has been muslim on muslim so in that respect I would say its even more evil than the Nazi as it represents hate towards everyone save their small inner group.

    Note that the Koran does espress that Islam should expand to cover the world, but forbids forced conversion and commands peaceable coexistance with other religions. Christianity also has the desire to expand and convert others to Christianity so to use that against Islam is a bit ingeneous.

    1. ronald wolfe's Avatar ronald wolfe

      Thank you brother tim for correcting this misconception, your post is right on and hopefully the writer of the article will do more research before posting misconceptions.

  1. rev.roy williams's Avatar rev.roy williams

    Im from the south,and I can tell you the war was over rights and money. The north bought raw goods from us for little or nothing. Then sold the need products back to the south at 10 times the price. Basic usery. Most southerners didnt believe in slavery,and many were slaves themselves. Indentured servents. The movies make out like we were wealthy living life on the hog. Many of us were starving,because slaves had the work. We fought for thr reasons mentioned in the post above,but we also fought because we were protecting (our families. Were there haters. Yes the majority weren't though. They were brave me who fought for their homes and should be honnored. How about the continental army enlisting thr help of black ,indians and mexicans to fight the revolutionary war. Then they made slavery possible. Spent years killing indians and forcing them to live on lifeless peaces of dirt. Raped indian women to try and breed the indians out. My favorite push the mexicans below the borders. Preventing them from enjoying the nation they helped win. If we are the same as isis and the nazis. Then so is the union. I beat when indians see the stars and stripes. They feel like a abused raped people too. Yes brother. Hate is Hate. Just make sure you train yourself to see it. Where ever it exists

    This is said from a place of love and respect. Brother Williams. I get passionate,but never hate.

    1. mike's Avatar mike

      You should seek very serious psychological help.I will pray for you, God Bless, Reverend Mike

      1. Wyatt lee johnson's Avatar Wyatt lee johnson


  1. Kyle T's Avatar Kyle T

    The original documents of the Confederacy show quite clearly that the war was based on one thing: slavery. For example, in its declaration of secession, Mississippi explained, "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world … a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization." In its declaration of secession, South Carolina actually comes OUT AGAINST the rights of states to make their own laws — at least when those laws conflict with slaveholding. "In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals," the document reads. The right of transit, Loewen said, was the right of slaveholders to bring their slaves along with them on trips to non-slaveholding states.

    In its justification of secession, Texas sums up its view of a union built upon slavery: "We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable."

    So while I would love if the above comments were true, the Confederate States took great pains to make very clear the reason they fought and I take them at their word since they are the resident experts on why they did what they did, not any of us.

    1. Steven McGhee's Avatar Steven McGhee

      These are the same New Englanders whose shipping companies continued the slave trade in Central and South America until the 1890's. Typically, you choose a handful of comments taken out of context to support your argument, so silly. You also choose to ignore your hero Lincoln, who stated emphatically that the black man was not equal, and his intention was to deport them all, but by no means were they to be educated, or have the right to vote or sit on a jury. I agree that we should take them at their word, like when Lincoln was asked why the South should not be allowed to secede as the law allowed and he replied, "if that were to happen, from where would we collect revenue?"

      1. Universal Life Church Ministries's Avatar Universal Life Church Ministries

        wow, Steven. Kyle brought up a counterpoint to the views expressed before him, said nothing about Lincoln being his hero at all (as you claim he did), and you act as if the wrongdoing of the northerners somehow makes it impossible that the south was to blame for their insistence on using humans as slaves. You are mischaracterizing Kyle's words in hopes of creating a paper tiger - though you've failed to actually respond to the points he raised.

  1. tomarseneault's Avatar tomarseneault

    Thank you for your clearificatin. My history professor, lo them many years ago, glossed over that verbage in the articles of cessation, stating it was purly, or at best mostly, an economic issue. I agree with Ty Fords assertion, however, that the CSA was aboutvthe subjugation of the blacks rather them their extermination as ISIS and the Nazis did with their hate groups (Nazi was Jews and for ISIS it seems to be every one).

    1. Universal Life Church Ministries's Avatar Universal Life Church Ministries

      I hear ya, Brother Tom. My history teacher in 8th grade did the same thing. A few kids pressed her on the issue since, to them, it seemed like slavery was a central issue. She sort of broke down and said that in her studies, slavery did seem like the central issue but it was just so ugly that she wanted to shelter us from it. I think this is probably a fairly common response and is particularly interesting given the whole situation in Oklahoma where they got rid of advanced placement history across the state because it showed all the wrong things done by the United States. To some there, acknowledging the bad with the good is a mistake because it gives the impression that America is a real country with real people instead of a legendary "exceptional" country where we never make mistakes.

      1. Ty Ford's Avatar Ty Ford

        I think claiming that the USA never makes mistakes is "Denial In The Highest" and probably accounts for much of the hatred against the USA that we see (and feel) from other countries and cultures.

  1. Mack's Avatar Mack

    The civil rights flag was not represent "Hate" to put it up with theses other flags just shows your how stupid some people are of our history.. Your just listening to today's views of the flag you need to take a closer look in the history of the civil rights flag be you post any more of this stupidity.

    1. rev.roy williams's Avatar rev.roy williams

      Kyle T I reapect your position concerning the articles of war. As stared in confederate Papers. That may well be true,but you are talikng a out a group that was only 10% of the states. Still the the majority didnt want or fight for slavery. General Lee set the stage. When he said he did not believe in slavery,but he couldn't raise her swoard against virginia. Thats how most felt. The were fighting to save their homes. Thats what they said I believe them over politician. There was wrong do in the south,but the north didnt. Care unti the south sold their material to england,the forfather made it possible when they declared black2/3 human., We werent expanding or telling folks how to live. Comparing the south nazi or isis is wrong. Many of the stories about the south were dramtized to gain support. The usa has done far more to the peopl of this country,and others than the confederate states. The civil war began in Washington 7 years earlier over the same thing they always kill the young. Money. The southern states are on the verge of succed again. In a few states thr vote has failed by two or three votes. Its sad thing,but one this country isn't ready for. We are not isis,and we aren't anything like them. Its much like the2%the presidents always taliking about.the 10%in the south had enough power to trow us all in a pit or war. Thanks for the adticle of war you posted. It gives me anther argument about how the rich lead the poor to war for their own pocket.

    2. Craig's Avatar Craig

      The Confederate flag is no civil rights flag, no matter how revisionists want to color it. Shame on the analogy.

      1. Steven McGhee's Avatar Steven McGhee

        Actually, you are incorrect. The Confederate Battle Flag is, without a doubt an aggressive symbol to the northerners that continue to desire the complete subjugation of the Southern States as preferred by Johnson. As a result it has become a symbol of hate even to those who love it. The Third Flag of the Confederacy is a symbol of civil rights since it was the last flag to fly over the country when the Constitution was recognized as the law of the land.

  1. Sean hunter's Avatar Sean hunter

    I think I have NO USE whatsoever for the White Supremists (lmao). Moving back to the greatest little city in the World!! Stay away from White County (not joking!), Arkansas!!! Stupid Clan and their hate is Everywhere. God, help us All.....

  1. Qrez's Avatar Qrez

    There is nothing inherently wrong with hate. Hatred is a good first response to anything if you are not ruled by it.

    Hatred must be viewed as “passion for change” and understood as such.

    If your first response is "I hate X" then your second must be to question what you hate about X and to to on examining your feeling on this until you get down to the real underlying issues... With any hope some of that fire and energy from the hate will still be available to you.

    You can also use it to fuel physical ability. Like when the buss does not align with the train because its running late and you decide to walk uphill the rest of the way for a kilometers or so... (usually this will however use up the emotional energy you would have otherwise used to complain about the subject in detail to the people responsible for the problem..)

    The only thing hate is bad to use on specifically is persons. This is largely because people are not sufficiently enlightened to accept someones honest criticism most of the time and will engage in reflexive counter criticism and in this way we get into a feedback loop which only produces more of the unrefined base hate which is pointless..

    The other positive aspect of this self examination of hatred is that if your good at it you can spot when your reflecting your own failings onto least hypothetically. (Time spent on critical self reflection is generally never time wasted I suspect)

    If one understands hatred as “passion for change” then it must be a positive because change is a universal constant.

    To lack the passion for it is just apathy and an acceptance of decay.

    thus hate is love of another flavor at least if you make it work for you that way...

    1. Pastor Pete's Avatar Pastor Pete

      Beyond hatred there is fear, beyond the fear there is peace, as ever the discussion founders on points of doctrine.

  1. Stephen Fisher's Avatar Stephen Fisher

    Confederate flag does not belong in this discussion. Certain Southern States wanted to peaceably succeed from the United States, a right that they clearly had, which was denied to them through violence. The war was not fought for or against slavery, but for economic reasons. Lincoln ignored the US Constitution and was a tyrant! End of slavery would have occurred, and if the Civil War sped that up, that was indeed one (and perhaps the only) positive.

    1. Silver's Avatar Silver

      100% agreed!! Deo Vindice

  1. Concerned American's Avatar Concerned American

    First of all as a man of color unthinking his article is rediculous and fans the Flames even more. The fact is that some people are not going to like you for how you look or who you are and that has happened for thousands of years and will never go away. Guess what thatbisbwhat fine because you can't regulate or control how someone feels. As long as someone isn't physically trying to hurt you or someone how someone feels about me being an American Indian and them not liking me because of that is just fine. In fact I find the idea of "hate crimes" insulting because it creates a class system fr crime. Murder or rape or anything horrible like that is a crime regardless of why it was done. The punishment should be the same whether it was done because the intent was because is was racial or for whatever other reason. If you don't stop this mental illness of political correctness this country will fall into the hell the rest of the world is in. We have to stop making excuses for bad behavior and encourage people to do what God and nature extended for us and not making up our own rules because it feels good.

  1. Mat McCall's Avatar Mat McCall

    Hate is hate. Yep. And hate is a poison. It poisons you. Living full of hate is indeed like drinking poison in the hope the other person will die. Hate breeds hate, it does not heal, it will not bring you peace, it will not bring you salvation. Hating some one or something is a form of unseasoned self abuse. Put it away from you, put down that burden of hate, open your heart, mind and soul and learn to understand, accept and love. If God is love. Hate is the Devil, and I don't even allow myself to hate the Devil. Why? Because to hate him is to give him power over me, to hate him is to poison my own soul, to hate is to link me with him. Hate, not the whale, destroys Ahab in Moby Dick; "To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee." Hate eats us from the inside like the most malignant cancer and encourages us to throw away our reason and poison our souls, in the pursuit of what will ultimately destroy us. All those flags above are tainted with racial and religious hate ( though I don't think the Flag of the Confederacy is really akin to the Nazi or Isis flags - but I'm not black and I don't live in Alabama or Georgia - and no doubt people like the KKK use it.).

  1. fantumofthewinds's Avatar fantumofthewinds

    brain washing is alive and well , and it makes me ashamed how in the 21 century folks are still so uneducated that they would live, breed, and still have these sacraments, but then again its part of our shameful history .

  1. Brother Mike's Avatar Brother Mike

    While I agree hate is hate, and that Hitler, Isis, and all other great haters of history have (or will Have) their special place in Hell, I strongly feel that a continuous flow of movies and other media that brings the hate to the forefront can, In its own way, cultivate and reinstate that hate into societly especially to the young who grasp onto things that were done in the past and use it as a crutch to get ahead or get special treatment 200 years later. As far as the Movie Selma goes, I believe their is a segment of the media and production houses that prey on that hate to continue to make money and believe it is one of the saddest tragedies of our time. How can love have a chance when you continually beat the dead horse of how we hate. How about a movie of how we have grown from those times and have tried to get past our guilt of of ancestors. Love overcomes all but ALL parties need to give it a chance.

    1. Brother John's Avatar Brother John

      You are right on it, Brother Mike. Without hatred of an "enemy" the whole business of war would slowly grind to a halt, along with the massive profits it generates. The mass media isn't designed to entertain, but rather to create and amplify mass beliefs. We can see this clearly in the widespread Islamaphobia, which is simply more racism combined with religious hatred, a volatile and effective brew. All it takes is a good dose of ignorance and self righteousness (believing we are the good guys… the Chosen Ones) and stories of barbarism like burning, raping and baby killing and enough people become blood thirsty animals to send themselves (but usually someone else's children) off to another profitable war. People who hate are already living in their own self created Hell however.

      Godwin’s Law is an internet adage that is derived from one of the earliest bits of Usenet wisdoms, which goes “if you mention Adolf Hitler or Nazis within a discussion thread, you’ve automatically ended whatever discussion you were taking part in.”

      Ironically, it's unlikely that Hitler killed anyone, yet he is most often the one chosen to represent the epitome of evil and people believe it, generally because it sounds worse than what their own country, leaders and people are doing. In his case, the bitter reality is that Christian Germans carried out the Holocaust because they believed it was justified. Not Muslims, not ISIS, not alQueda, or any of the other enemies that have been created. Catholic and Protestant Germans. "We were just following orders" was not an acceptable defence during the Nuremberg Trials for the few scapegoat Nazi leaders that hadn't already been escorted out of the country to safety by the churches and Allied countries. History is always written by the victors and hygienically cleaned up before being fed to us.

      These are the unpalatable facts but the sooner we accept them, the sooner racist, bigoted beliefs and the hatred they spawn, can be rooted from our minds and replaced with the universal love that you, and many of us here, are working towards. Our work is cut our for us, however.

      Even here, in a forum promoting peace, understanding and unity, we can find plenty of hatred, mostly for Muslims and other "non-believers", but others like LGBT people, posted principally by fundamentalist Christians. If you've read through the comments on various posts you'll see that these aren't simply misguided beliefs. They are often presented AS FACTS TAKEN FROM THE BIBLE!! THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD!!!. My purpose is not to be sarcastic or to denigrate Christians and the Bible (although I do feel the responsibility to challenge them when they are extreme and contrary to our mission), but to highlight what happens when beliefs are so deeply rooted and fervently defended that common sense, logic and human decency are left by the wayside.

      I doubt that any of us will be able to alter many fundamentalist beliefs with reason, common sense and facts ( or the lack of them). I can only assume that this group feels the obligation to proselytize to the "non-believers" on this forum. I, for one, think that those of us who find bigotry and racism offensive, should speak out against it in an intelligent, and compassionate way… as we would reason with a child as We are all children of the same Universe. We may not affect any of their misguided beliefs, but may encourage others to stay involved with us rather than leave the forum believing there are too many fundamentalists ranting here. I have one foot out the door myself as I'm pretty fed up with the incessant preaching.

  1. Billy Roper's Avatar Billy Roper

    Many more people have been killed trying to enforce a mythical and impossible equality, than out of racial hatred. Ask Pol Pot or Stalin or Trotsky or Mao. The Founding Fathers stipulated by law in the very first definition of citizenship, the Naturalization Act of 1790, that only Whites could be citizens of the U.S.. That was the law of the land until after the 14th and 15th amendments were unConstitutionally ramrodded through a conquered and subjugated land where the imperial federal government had proven through force of arms that the United States of America was no longer a voluntary union, but compulsory and subject to strong-armed enforcement. Now, if people really hate the founding principles and ideals of our nation, then they need to be intellectually honest enough to admit as much, but based on modern liberal definitions of the term, ALL of our Founding Fathers, from Jefferson to Lincoln, would be considered White supremacists. Considering current demographic trends, how one feels about that probably depends on how comfortable you are with becoming a minority in the nation which was established specifically for you and your progeny...not the progeny of Asia, or Africa, or Mexico.

    1. Brother John's Avatar Brother John

      Looks like you're correct, Billy… Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia….

      George Washington, the first President of the United States, was a slave owner for practically all of his life. Washington was the only major slave holder among the seven Founding Fathers to, in his will, emancipate his slaves. Washington emancipated no one while living. His will provided for freeing his slaves upon the death of his widow Martha Washington. In January 1801 Martha freed her husband's slaves, just over a year after his death.[1] However, while she lived, Martha did not emancipate any of her own slaves and when she died, on May 22, 1802, at the age of 70, all of her human property went to her inheritors.[2] Nonetheless, at various times in his life, Washington privately expressed strong support for the gradual abolition of slavery.

      Although Washington personally opposed the institution of slavery after the American Revolutionary War, he had no tolerance for slave revolts and in 1791 as President he authorized emergency financial and military relief to French slave owners in Haiti to suppress a slave rebellion.[3] In 1789 Congress passed and President Washington signed a law that reaffirmed the previous ban on slavery in the Northwest Territory; it did not free slaves already in the territory. The 1790 Naturalization Act provided a means to incorporate foreigners as United States citizens, but was available only to "free white persons" of "good moral character." Washington signed the 1793 Fugitive Slave Law, the first to provide for the right of slaveholders to recapture slaves even in free states that had abolished slavery. The Slave Trade Act of 1794, adopted during his administration, limited the slave trade to foreign ships by regulation of U.S. ports.

      Although you may be pining for the "good old days", a full 1/5 of the U.S. was black back in 1790 thanks to the importation of slaves. That's not much whiter than it is now at about 70% white. Assuming you're in the U.S., it looks like the best place for you is Maine, with the highest White population at 96%. I did a quick check and couldn't find any 100% white countries for you, but Argentina is 97%. Your best option would be to dial down your bigotry and accept that "We are all children of the same Universe".

  1. Cheryl's Avatar Cheryl

    There is a very fine line between Love & hate. With great emotions come greater desires and when they grown to the point of swelling or possible implosion panic sets in. In panic the easier paths are chosen. It is easier to hate what is Loved than to Love what is hated. The things that are symbols of what is meant to invoke wanted negative response can also be reconditioned for the positive. Being of the light and Love will always show a better way. The path is challenging, rough, an tough but it is the difficult that is the most rewarding. The balance is the scale in which we measure. Blessings of Love to all

  1. Ti Gonzalez's Avatar Ti Gonzalez

    History is written and changed over the course of time. What remains is the Divine Spirit that each person holds and can emanate. I ask myself, what joy can I bring today, how do I elevate my spirit without devaluing another? We are all cells of one Being. How today can I seek the Peace that surpasses all understanding? How can I Become the Peace that surpasses all understanding? Maybe, collectively, we send pure love from our spirits to those who can hold such feelings of hatred.

  1. Minister Teresa R.'s Avatar Minister Teresa R.

    Hate is hate. But we are judging others. Not all who fly the Confederate flag are racist.To them it is their heritage. Not all Muslims are evil either. While alot of them commit evil acts, they do so in the name of Islam. Even what they do is not allowed in the Quran. Isis is committing horrible evil. But most of the Islamic World condemn them and do not agree with them. Our country is judgemental. When we follows our beliefs we are condemning them for it. I thought this was a country of freedom?

  1. Troy Stotts's Avatar Troy Stotts

    Personally I think we are a bit confused about the hate issue. Slave owners did not "hate" their slaves. Had nothing to do with hate. They had them for profit. Hate is wrong. Slavery is wrong but they are two separate issues.

  1. Zach Rutherford's Avatar Zach Rutherford

    Hate come in many forms, however, governments I feel are the most notorious. Exploiting the lower class citizens to do the bidding of a few rich people. The people gain nothing from war, the leaders reap the benefits of brainwashing young people to die for lies and money. Fear is powerful and fear is how they operate, dig under the skin of the start of wars, manipulation of public perception...enough said

    1. Brother John's Avatar Brother John

      Excellent points Zach! Both governments and churches have used fear and contrived hatred to control masses of people for centuries. The current Islamaphobia is based on 9/11, but many don't make the connection as over 13 years have passed. Let's all remember that their homelands have been invaded and bombed throughout those 13 years without justification. Well over 200,000 innocent people have been killed in the GWOT and there's more to come unless enough of us realize we've been manipulated over and over again. Let's walk a mile in their shoes and understand that we (the West) have created all of our "enemies" to justify the profits of war.

  1. Rev Bill Turner's Avatar Rev Bill Turner

    I agree that hate is hate. I disagree with people teaching that the confederate flag stands for hate or racism. The civil war was fought over whether the south had the right to withdraw from the Union or not. Lincoln made the focus on the slavery issue for economic and political purposes. I will admit that some use that flag to represent things which it does not because they have been taught that the flag stands for that. When you continue to spread false teachings you cause more hate to be spread. It is also too often that certain people decide to hate someone because they assume certain things about them because of these wrong teachings, You might want to be aware that here in Texas there is a well know organization called the Sons of the Confederacy, which is made up of the descendants of Confederate Soldiers, That organization is multiracial, In fact not long ago I know that their top officer in the state was a gentleman of color (black man). I don't know about the current commander because I am not a member, but I know some and they are fine gentlemen. You need to help stop the spread of hate by stopping the spread of hate provoking lies.

  1. Robert's Avatar Robert

    well, since i consider myself a national socialists and that outrageous comparison to Islam , there is a reason and many reasons for eugenics and racial purity that is all too obvious

  1. St. V Frances's Avatar St. V Frances

    I to am a socialist. Don't mistake that for communist. Change is always bound to happen. In my heart of hearts, as a Minister and( foremost) a Gnostic, my aim is to help those whom I come across on an everyday basis. Don't get me wrong, I do stay up on world issues, I just don't air my dirty laundry thoughts. (only to my husband)...

  1. Willie Willaams's Avatar Willie Willaams

    The root of hate is Satan against man kind, it start by him hating on God. The things we are witnessing is the of hate which come from the root. Jesus Christ didn't come to brig peace but to set us free from the vine of Satan. Jesus is the true vine to having peace and love with your self, and if by chance you can spread it across the world

  1. Eddie's Avatar Eddie

    There are symbols that some people see as hate and some see them as other meanings . symbols are what you make of them . Just like other people have different beliefs and gods they worship . I believe in Jesus and he died for our sins . I belive in focusing on the word and sharing the word of Jesus then some one using a symbol the wrong way and then being blind to the truth !! If fellow believers can't help people with hate open there eyes to the truth one day God will.

  1. William J. Daniels's Avatar William J. Daniels

    If you distil all emotions down to their essense, you are left with only Love and fear , ALL hate is fear, in it's sickest manifestation Brother bill

  1. Diane Baum's Avatar Diane Baum

    I think back to Jesus' day, when all that He stood for brought "fear" to those who were in power: the Pharisees. Herod. Pilate. The felt that no way would anyone so looked down upon as this simple Jewish man from Nazareth would take over their rule. He had nothing. No riches, no wealth. He didn't hail from a well known family. He was a simple carpenter's son. So, in reaction to that fear, they instilled another fear into the people around them. He was indicted and, by the choice of the people, was crucified like a common criminal. How DARE he say he was the Son of God! It was and still is the way we treat those who are different from us today. If you are anything other than what I am, so it goes, you must be evil/hateful/eradicated. And if by law I can't eradicate you, I will get all of my friends and whoever else will listen to ALSO hate you, until there is such a commotion to get rid of you that it SHALL be done! Yes, we do this, you know you do. Negroes? Yup. Jews? Oh yes. Muslims? Definitely. The thought that" if you aren't what I am, you are unworthy".. pervades through all of us. How can we avoid this? Human nature being what it is, I doubt if we ever can. Jews were against Samaritans, back in Jesus' time. And it will always be thus. Until we look each INDIVIDUAL in the eye and declare them to be our brothers and sisters, we shall always feel as though they are "less than" us. It has NOTHING to do with religion. It has everything to do with common human decency!

    1. Brother John's Avatar Brother John

      Much of the current (and past) hatred has to do with religion, Diane. Two of the three examples you used were religious. Fervent mass belief has the ability to overshadow people's conscience whether it's religious dogma, racism, capitalism or patriotism. Only when enough people stop believing untruths about their superiority to others will humanity regain it's dignity and compassion. Moral guidance should be the role of the churches, but many "look the other way" to avoid political confrontation with the exception of the Peace Churches. Virtually major belief systems today have the Golden Rule as their basis. It's time for them to start practicing what they preach and do what's right.

  1. Bruce Tishman's Avatar Bruce Tishman

    There's a new campaign underway for young people to join the Peace Corps. We need more support for the Peace Corps. Kindness, Joy, Love and Happiness will always prevail over hate, killing, stealing and lying. Get behind the Peace Corp. if you do nothing else for this beautiful World.

  1. Matt's Avatar Matt

    Hate is too complicated to just say it is what it is.

  1. Frank Cottone's Avatar Frank Cottone

    Unless we look at others based on God's word and make a deliberate decision to love, forgive and try to understand others who are different than us, we fall under the powers that be. I don't think hate is that complicated, I believe its what we are taught from childhood and unless you have the Lord it's pretty much impossible not to " Hate ", if only because someone is different in the way they look or live life. Also I believe it's me and God, not what my church or any other says.

    1. Brother John's Avatar Brother John

      Bravo Frank!! Unfortunately, you'll find people on this forum whose interpretation of the bible leads them to preach bigotry, hatred, and damnation, particularly for "non-believers". I think you'll find that it's quite a challenge to enlighten them.

  1. Rev. Wayne Gibbons's Avatar Rev. Wayne Gibbons

    I believe Hate comes from ignorance and fear of those we do not understand. Many atrocities have been committed in the name of one god or another. Hate is easy. Compassion and understanding is more difficult.

  1. Michael Roth's Avatar Michael Roth

    The funny thing is that I used the same picture, as in this article, in my Facebook page a few days ago to remind people of the time when Republican Party lost 400,000 patriots to free blacks from slavery. All in all close to 600,000 people died during the Civil War. At that time Republicans and Democrats were fighting for what they believe was right. Not all people understood, at that time, that slavery was horrible and they were fighting to protect their "property." Today, in my opinion, the Confederate flag doesn't represent slavery, but more like a memory of people died for their believes. Islamic State's flag, on the other hand, does represent 1,400 years of savage killing of ALL people and more is coming. Some people will claim that the Qur'an doesn't call for atrocities toward infidels, which is false. I have read the entire Qur'an, from 1st surah to the 114th surah and that book is filled with such horrible things, that I doubt that the Muslims themselves are able to finish that book.

    1. Brother John's Avatar Brother John

      We should be highlighting the similarities of all religions, with the focus on the positives, Michael. Both the Bible and the Koran are filled with similar atrocities, one no more horrific than the other. I believe the Bible comes the closet to the total annihilation of ALL people when God drowns everyone but Noah and his family, but details much slaughter and genocide in many other instances and also calls for the deaths of infidels. Somewhere in the Bible it warns us that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

      The slaughter, destruction and pillaging involved in the current GWOT is more political than it is religious, just as it has been for centuries. Sadly, it's still relatively easy to convince masses of people that they are the superior and righteous ones and pit them against the evil enemies that are created. Just think about how many boogeymen have been presented since 9/11…. alQueda, the Taliban, BinLaden,Hussein, Ghadafi, ISIS, ISIL, the Islamic State, Boko Haram, etc. etc. Many of these people and organizations were created, assisted and encouraged by the very countries that now denounce them. The business of war needs new enemies and fear to continue decade after decade. It also needs the support of the general population who will pay for it with both blood and money.

      This is accomplished by having enough people believe in the teachings of religious dogma, patriotism, nationalism, capitalism and racism. The ULC's credo is "We are all children of the same Universe" and as such should be promoting unity, love and acceptance; not division, hatred and rejection.

      1. Michael Roth's Avatar Michael Roth

        Brother John, I completely agree with you that ULC should promote unity, love and acceptance, however we should'n close our eyes, ears and soul on killing of thousands of people by followers of radical Islam. All of these organizations that you listed above, ALL of them committed atrocities in the name of ALLAH. The unique position of UCL is that we can discuss controversial issues without asking permission from Rome or Mecca. As I stated in my previous post, I have read Qur’an and the Bible completely, from cover to cover and to equal both of them is wrong. I'm not a theological scholar, however I read both of them with open mind, like anyone can do, and in my view and from my personal experience they are as far from each other as day and night. Nowhere in the Bible you will find so much horrible staff as in Qur’an. The problem is that very few people have read it and they judge the Qur’an based on opinions of other people. The sad part is that the majority of victims of radical Islam isn't the Jews or Christians or Hindus or atheists, but Muslims themselves. We shouldn't be silent on controversial issue we should speak up and be heard.

        1. Brother John's Avatar Brother John

          We'll probably just agree to disagree on a few of your points, Michael.

          Setting the horrors in the OT aside, if I'm not mistaken, as I'm not a bible scholar either, Revelations details the second coming of Christ. Justified or not, it is violent and cruel beyond anyone's worst nightmare. Perhaps there is something more horrific in the Koran. I'm not sure as I've not read either of them completely.

          Not surprisingly, there are strong cases for both sides when we ask which of the two "holy books" are more violent. Those that are secular rather than opinionated should carry more weight as scholarly works and there are many.

          The Bible has been revised and translated many times over the centuries and there are dozens of versions in print today, all with differences. And there are those who believe that their's is the true and only Bible. You are probably one of them. What version did you read from cover to cover and how did you decide that it was the most accurate version/translation? Which one is the original Bible?

          Virtually all religious scholars agree that the only true version of the Qu'ran is in the original Arabic. It's not a translation or a revision. It's the original. Those of us who choose not to learn fluent Arabic, have to rely on a translation into our own language. Although the possibility of mistranslation is there because we choose not to learn Arabic, there are many people who speak and read both Arabic and English fluently. But the fact remains that it is difficult to translate nuances and arcane concepts from one language to another. But millions of Muslims around the world can read their holy book in it's original language, and do so everyday. Thousands upon thousands can recite if from memory.

          Not so with the Bible. It is a collection of writings in different languages written hundreds of years apart, some from mere fragments of parchment. Who decided which books were included in our current Bibles? Who decided which men were real vs. "false prophets" whose dreams and visions were promoted as messages from God? Were these prophets literate? Did they write them down, or were they passed from person to person, generation to generation, as oral traditions? Who eventually put them in writing and did they have any agenda that would cause them to make changes that suited them?

          I don't deny that I'm a skeptic. As you can see above, I question and challenge what's presented to me as factual. I'm not afraid of admitting that I don't know many things rather than believe without proof, simply to feel the comfort of an explanation.

          For those reasons, and more, including the behaviour of many "religious" practitioners, I put no faith in the Koran and certainly not in the Bible. That doesn't mean that I deny the existence of a higher power, just the detailed and humanized descriptions they provide.

          The Islamic Golden Age flourished from the mid 7th Century to the mid 13th Century. Advances in science, medicine and mathematics were being developed and stored in the House of Wisdom in Baghdad. This coincides with the Dark Ages when the Catholic church was burning witches and heretics. As late as the early 1600's, Galileo was accused of heresy for proposing that the Sun did not revolve around the Earth (heliocentrism), and that tides and comets existed.

          Virtually all of the men who wrote and selected the information included in today's Bible would be thought of as ignorant, bigoted and delusional in today's world. Much of what they believed has been proven to be false, yet millions of people still cling to what's left of their stories. We hear from some of them on this forum and they should be neither surprised nor angry if their beliefs are challenged.

  1. wickedpa's Avatar wickedpa

    I don't know if this fits in this discussion or not It's just something I ran across awhile back "Fear leads to Anger ,Anger leads to Hate and Hate leads to Suffering".

  1. jared's Avatar jared

    I believe you can kill those people with such hate but you can't kill a belief the influence that are young people receive is in are day to day news in are schools even on homes there needs to be more places for are youth to take part in a movement of love for other faiths and respect for others beliefs everyone is and should be a missionary of god and remember we are all created under god through the first stone if free from sin no one is perfect everyone has fallen but many walk by lets pick each other up and start being humanitarians bottom line is it starts with positive influence on are children reach out to them show them the love of the lord and let them testify the power of god to there children that's a snowball worth pushing down the tallest mountain life is to short for animosity we don't want to take that home to are god or do I want to explain the hardness of my heart surrender to god and listen to the holy spirit put your trust in our lord cause it is so awesome to know you have the free will to turn the other check Jesus Christ paid for are sins but it doesn't mean we can sin we as humanity should remember are history to do better and learn from are mistakes it doesn't matter what has been done to us or what's said my favorite thing to say is "i love you and forgive you" it does leave them speech less

  1. Jeremiah's Avatar Jeremiah

    So true hate is hate !!!

  1. Frank Villari's Avatar Frank Villari

    You can almost bet money this was not written by a southerner, knows nothing of the true history of the Civil War, and the writer seems to forget the wealthy north owned southern land being worked by slaves, and owned slaves in the north as well. One need to remember that the winner of any conflict writes the history of what happened, and you can bet that history is skewed to the winning viewpoint. I am concerned that The Visionary has allowed this ignorant article, spewing hate toward an entire region of people. Hate is hate, so how about we post articles that are well researched and don't fail from the same failings they write about. I expect more from The Visionary.

  1. James Hecker ORDAINED ULC MINISTER May 29th, 1996's Avatar James Hecker ORDAINED ULC MINISTER May 29th, 1996

    The worst kind of hate is the lie. This site is doing exactly that by putting the stars in the swastika. This is a not so hidden attack on the states of the union that took part in the civil war. The common understanding is that the civil war was over slavery. This is a lie, John Fremont who was a northern officer decided that he would write an emancipation proclamation so that the southern slaves would go north and not support the supply function for the confederate army's. A good war tactic that resulted in The president expanding it to the complete war effort. The civil war decided if this country was going to be agricultural or industrial based. The destruction of our agricultural state was the result. Industry took over agriculture and now we have legislated poisoning of the citizens of this country. Most country's will not allow this. Your hidden re-wright of history and comparing american citizens to World War II Germany is just another sick attempt to cause fear in America. A type of Terror. Shame on you ULC. I have been a minister for twenty years, whoever is responsible for this trash needs to be removed. Thank you.

    1. Universal Life Church Ministries's Avatar Universal Life Church Ministries

      you are ignoring the secession papers from the southern states themselves, which make it obvious that the south seceded because they wanted slaves and the north didn't want them to have slaves. Know your history, or as the phrase goes, you will be doomed to repeat it.

    2. Derek's Avatar Derek

      Actually the civil was fought over politics and economic status then in the late years of the civil war they wanted to free slaves

  1. Brother John's Avatar Brother John

    Our role as ULC ministers is to encourage widespread unity, love and acceptance. As both the Koran and the Bible condone slavery, pointing to one but not the other is hypocritical. Some of the "founding fathers" of the U.S. were slave owners, but that was then and this is now. Although few people condone traditional slavery today, it is still as prevalent as ever through the mental slavery of racism, dogma, patriotism, nationalism, capitalism and other belief systems. The widespread belief in something that causes fear in a society has always been the most effective method of control and enslavement. This can range from the threat of eternal damnation to terror attacks to skin colour. We can only throw off our invisible but powerful shackles by discarding the beliefs that anchor them in our minds.

  1. Silver's Avatar Silver

    And religion? (To follow your thought pattern.)

  1. Pastor Deb's Avatar Pastor Deb

    The article basically asks is all hate the same? Then compares the uncomparable to prove his/her point (I saw no author's name).

    First, no, all hate is not the same. My hatred of the number on the scale when I step on it, does not compare with my hatred for a pedophile or rapist. So no, all hate is not alike.

    Neither is comparing apples to oranges. I admit, I am not terribly familiar with the whole ISIS situation, so I won't really speak to that.

    However, I am quite familiar with the war between the states, and the author is posting baisc propaganda, it saddens me to say. There are quite a few realities about that war that are omitted. I haven't read all the replies, so if I repeat any, I'm sorry.

    First, while slavery was part of the reason for the Civil War, it was not the main one. Yes, the plantation owners needed their slaves to work the farms. Those farms provided the cotton that the northern textile mills turned to cloth. Slavery was not primarily what we saw in "Roots" or "12 Years a Slave." A field hand during that time cost upwards of a thousand dollars. Do the math for inflation on that. You don't buy a Ferrari and drive it in to a tree. Likewise, you don't spend a great deal of money and then damage your slave so they are unable to make you money. It's poor business practice, plain and simple.

    Now, we hear how slaves were treated so horribly. Let's look at that. They were fed, they were provided clothes, or the cloth to make them. They were taught various trades such as blacksmith and midwifery.. They received medical care when they were ill, typically from the female head of the plantation family. Yes, they were servants, and were treated as servants/

    Do I believe slavery was a good thing? Not for a second. But while many like to believe that opening scene in Roots, were Kunta Kinte is hunted down, captured and made a slave, the reality is that most of the slaves were slaves within the tribes they belonged to in Africa and the leaders of those tribes traded their slaves for goods. Yes, some were captured against their will but not all.

    Another fact that is often ignored is that many of these slaves WILLINGLY fought for the South, wanting to maintain their way of life. Their lack of education was not the fault of the plantation/slave owners, poor whites weren't educated either.

    So when the North won the wore, the slaves were free. Now they had no homes, no medical care, no concept of how to work for money. Whose fault was that? Pretty much Lincoln's, because he didn't have a plan in place to assimilate the slaves into a free life.

    So no, the Civil War wasn't all about slavery and slavery wasn't all about the mean 'ole overseer beaten the tar out of the slaves.

    Now WWII. It can't be compared to the Civil War at all. The Jews (and later the Japanese in America) owned businesses and homes that were just taken from them (whereas the slaves had no possessions). Has the author visited any WWII sites? I have. I have seen the attic where Anne Frank, her family and two other family hid for several years. I have seen Schindlers factory, and I have visited Auschwitz and seen the horrors there.

    You compare the horrors of the death camps to slavery in the US prior to the Civil War. You do realize that the US didn't invent slavery and by far weren't the most barbaric in their treatment of slaves throughout history. Have you forgotten about the slavery in the Bible, and how it was perfectly ok for Abraham to rape his slave since his wife seemed barren?

    As I said, I have seen with my own eyes, Auschwitz, the crematoriums, the possessions just taken away and the deplorable conditions the Jews were made to live in under true threat of death each day. The wall where Jews were shot primarily for sport.

    I have also had the honor of speaking with people who survived life in those camps (yes, I'm old enough to have done that), as well we those who simply lived through WWII in Germany.

    So while hate in all forms can be a bad thing, before making comparisons, I would seriously suggest you truly know your history before making such invalid comparisons.

  1. Mary Benoit's Avatar Mary Benoit

    Whether individual or institutional, hate is hate. There are many interesting comments about institutional hate now and over the years but we need go any further than a boss or spouse who controls through threats and intimination. The institutions of hate just give permission to behave badly. We need to start with the attitude of entitlement; those who think that others should defer the aggressive behavior. We saw the results with child abuse, domestic violence, gun use and even cutting someone off in traffic. Where does it start: where does it end?

  1. Gregg's Avatar Gregg

    Hate is hate and love is love. We can talk about different kinds of love such as love for a family member or love for a relationship partner, for a pet or an object, but they are all love. And we would not know love without hate any more than we would know hot without cold. We know these things because we took from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Lest we take from the tree of life, we shall till the ground from whence we came. Genesis 3:22-23. When we take the proverbial forbidden fruit we separate ourselves from God and eternal life. When we "put forth our hand and take also of the tree of life", we return to a life with God where we know only love. Peace and love to you!

  1. Bard David's Avatar Bard David

    What an interesting discussion. While our erstwhile goal as ULC Ministers is to cross the boundaries of all religions - fostering harmony among all peoples of the World, I see mostly Christian perspectives addressed here, as well as U.S. regional perspectives. We MUST be wiling to leave ourselves behind - all we were taught - and Listen to The Creator of the Universe. I have to ask... are there other religious perspective represented within the ULC Ministry? If so... where are their voices? Have their voices been silenced - as in this Christian nation - only the voice representing God as Christ is honored? I certainly hope NOT! I also hope that by raising this issue - to open the door to a more harmonious discussion of the nature of hate no matter where it is found - rather than see our fellow ministers attacking one another for any perceived misperceptions or historical inaccuracies. We are ALL very HUMAN and make mistakes - can we not treat each another with respect - even while we disagree on particular subject matter? I also hope to open the door to those of our Ministers with religious affiliations differing from that of Christianity to join in this discussion.

    God IS Love All else is folly

    Peace and Blessings,

    Bard David

    1. Brother John's Avatar Brother John

      I am not a Christian, Bard David, nor are some others here. However, there are a number of what appear to be, fundamentalist Christians in this forum and they often have far more to say than the "non-believers". There have been a number of concerns voiced about a few of them in particular who are often abusively and aggressively proselytizing their beliefs. I do find it odd for someone to bring rigid dogma to a forum that is clearly designed to be universal in nature, but they are here AND MANY OF THEM SHOUT TO BE HEARD. I've begun to scroll past anything that's in ALL CAPS as it invariably extreme.

  1. Parson's Avatar Parson

    Academic Dr. David Duke's book My Awakening and try to refute it.

  1. chicka balter's Avatar chicka balter

    the confederate battle flag is not a racist flag and you can not erase history so get over it, do you homework people and quit following the tards that think that way.....

    i fly and or wear the confederate battle flag when ever i can and am very proud to know what it really stands for, i am not going to let some racist group take over my flag and make it their own..i will defend that flag until the day i die.

    do your homework before you hate

  1. Matt's Avatar Matt

    The reason that the Southern states seceed had nothing to do with slavery. The North was more pro-slavery than the south, as the North actually owned more slaves than the South. The ACTUAL reason that the Southern states seceeded was because of taxation without proper representation (which is the same reason that America seceeded from British rule. The Federal government was unfairly taxing the import/export of goods to & from the Southern states, while giving the Northern states cutbacks (basically). The South asked to have a more fair represenation in the House & Senate, but the requested was ignored. So, they seceeded & the civil war started; NOT because of slavery, but because of unfair taxes. No journal found by EITHER Union or Confederate soldiers mention anything about fighting to protect or destroy slavery. For the North, it was all about "preserving the union" & for the South, it was about gaining independence from an oppressive government. Slavery didn't becom ean issue until Lincoln made it one. So, respectively, before you start bashing the Confederate States of America, please take the time to research the FACTS, instead of the popular belief by uneducated mass groups of people.

  1. Rev. Donna's Avatar Rev. Donna

    I pray for the day when hate will be a forgotten, outdated, emotion. Someone once said: “The medicine is love & if you are not getting results, increase the dose.” May we all increase the dose & focus more on our service & less on our differences.

  1. wibill's Avatar wibill

    An uncomfortable reaction... Why does it seem that many of these ULC posts incite hatred and division? I joined ULC because I wanted to preach love and kindness. This should not be a forum for hate. DJ gets it.

  1. Derek's Avatar Derek

    Yes because the middle won stand for the Islamic state which is Isis and they are terrorists, the nazi or swastika was the emblem of the third rich lead by hitler Germany's military dictator, the confederate flag was chosen during a vote and it was recommended by the north Virginian army under the lead of Robert E. Lee. And all the people that lead and flew those flags all had different reasons

  1. Bryan's Avatar Bryan

    Our flag doesnt represent hate, read a history book how about you morons.

  1. coleman's Avatar coleman

    ya their is the confederate flag stand for haritige not hate i know a lot of colored people who would agree with it to.

  1. James's Avatar James

    Its all about ones Phaneron... Is the swastika a symbol of hate? Lets cherry pick the details. No matter what symbol is viewed. Most look at a cherry picked section of history THEY wish to hone in on. Should Hitler (or any symbol in any period of time) be banned becasue of some one twisting it to be THEIR meaning and only their meaning? Lets take the swastika? .

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