It’s the start of Pride Month, but a wave of vandalism targeting pro-LGBTQ+ churches is putting a damper on the festivities.
Across the country, Christian churches that visibly support the LGBTQ+ community are reporting vandalism on their properties.
From graffiti, to theft, to property damage, it seems LGBTQ-affirming churches are under attack.
Church Graffiti
The vandalism is notable because it's not isolated to one specific area. From California, to New England, and many states in between, churches that hang Pride flags outside their doors, paint rainbows on their steps, or show any public support for the LGBTQ+ community are at risk of having their property defaced.
In Mitchell, South Dakota, the pro-LGBTQ+ Congregational United Church of Christ was vandalized with graffiti. The church is well known in the area as LGBTQ-affirming, and was even scheduled to host a Pride event later this month for the local gay community. But neighbors noticed the church was recently vandalized, with “Repent!” and “Leviticus 18:22” scrawled in red graffiti on the side of the brick building.
Leviticus 18:22 reads, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”
Within hours, church officials and congregants repurposed the graffiti into an uplifting message of love and support.
Pastor Matt Richards responded to the vandals, arguing that “it seems pretty hypocritical for someone who claims to be a Christian to come and vandalize a building and break the law irregardless as to whether it’s a church or not.”
Theft and Property Damage
In Sacramento, Parkside Community Church similarly tried to turn a recent vandalism incident into a positive.
Parkside flies a Pride banner on their front lawn, and it is damaged or stolen so frequently that replacement flags are a line item in the church’s budget. Earlier this year, security video actually captured footage of a theft, with a clear picture of a young man stealing the flag as another man off screen addresses him as “Zach.”
The church opted not to submit the footage to police, and instead hung a new banner on the church addressing the vandal himself: “Hey Zach! Do you want to talk about it?” reads the new banner. The banner has a QR code which links to a letter addressing the vandal with the intention of opening dialogue.
Across the country in Silver Spring, Maryland, Pilgrim Church had their own Pride banner defaced. A well-known pro-LGBTQ+ church in their community, they’ve had a Pride banner reading “God is still speaking” hanging from their church since the early 2000s. That was until vandals cut the banner in half horizontally.
Church pastor Rev. Michael Vanacore insisted on repairing the banner rather than buying a new one, to show that the church will not be deterred in its support of its LGBTQ neighbors.
They want to “send the message that it means something,” says Rev. Vanacore, “both the original banner as it was, and that they’re not going to force us to spend money every time.”
Is Pride Under Attack?
The recent attacks are reminiscent of vandalism that made headlines last year. In March 2023, video went viral of a man pouring gray paint on rainbow steps outside a church in Sydney, Australia.
In the video, a man can be heard saying “[expletive] the LGBT” as he vandalizes the steps. His victory was short-lived: Parishioners repainted the steps the very next day.
In each story, churches have responded to hate with love, opting not to punish, but to open dialogue with the vandals and take the higher road.
Which begs the question: are these vandals accomplishing their goals? They seem intent on combatting a pro-LGBTQ+ position they view as unbiblical and incompatible with Christianity, but is defacing or stealing church property helping win any support for their cause?
What is your reaction?
115 comments
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James Riggle-Johnson
Pride came about because of the shame straight people kept pushing on LGBTQ people. It started when the police raided the Stonewall Inn because it was a gay bar. The PRIDE in Pride month is about self-respect and resistance to discrimination against LGBTQ people. Just 50+ years ago, people were getting fired from their jobs and evicted from their homes because they were gay. No person should have to live like that.
These churches have the decency to let LGBTQ people know they won’t be judged in that house of God. LGBTQ people don’t want to attend church in a place where people despise them. And because these few churches announce that they welcome everyone, other Christians get so outraged they vandalize a house of God. LGBTQ people have been here since the beginning of time and will be here until the very end. God made all of us the way he wanted us to be.
Pride came about because of the shame straight people kept pushing on LGBTQ people. It started when the police raided the Stonewall Inn because it was a gay bar. The PRIDE in Pride month is about self-respect and resistance to discrimination against LGBTQ people. Just 50+ years ago, people were getting fired from their jobs and evicted from their homes because they were gay. No person should have to live like that.
These churches have the decency to let LGBTQ people know they won’t be judged in that house of God. LGBTQ people don’t want to attend church in a place where people despise them. And because these few churches announce that they welcome everyone, other Christians get so outraged they vandalize a house of God. LGBTQ people have been here since the beginning of time and will be here until the very end. God made all of us the way he wanted us to be.
PS… it’s not LGBTQ people shoving this down your throats. It’s the corporations making money off their back that do the shoving.
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Pastor George Day
James Riggle-Johnson,
We were also persecuted by the Nazis during Hitler's Third Reich ad put in prison in many countries like the UK. We still haven't received proper compensation for that.
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Kathryn Darcy Smith
Church religion is a FINANCIAL ART FORM. LGBT crap shoved down outlr throats CONSTANTLY, has to STOP!
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Franklin Kerr Lewis Jr
Now more than ever we are to stand proud and strong for its really not a war yet its a display of the lost souls. I preach for everyone to stand and be their God in their flesh. Call the spirit which is the mindset of the divine Intelligence. Be the change!! The words can not be greater than the creator!
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Pastor George Day
Kathryn Darcy Smith,
How lovely if we just stopped breathing, eh?
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Nonnye Lynn Lucky
Whoever did deface the church's sign lack the beliefs of his so called convictions. Had he actually thought that the church was wrong he would have been an adult, in the true sence of the word,and voiced his opinion.
People who strike out like this are not just vandales. They will strike out against anyone or anything that appears to be sanctioned by those in authority. All they need is a reason to vent thier rage. And these kinds of actions tend to escalate.
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Evone Payton Banks (Minister non denominational)
And it also says "GOD has not given us the spirit of fear" also says "And behold love everyone" and it also say David begged God for Jonathan and they were espoused (married)
The point is mans view snuck in there during times of war and twisted words of heaven
"do not add to or take away from".... Was a suggestion and it's one of the oldest commandments. The fact we all have different Bibles we all have been "found wanting" I'm going ask a question I had a thought about for the last two months What religion is God to be put into a box of one way? If he wanted us to be the same the story of the Tower of babel wouldn't be there of the "shaking up and separating". So reading or seeing things like this I present a different view I was raised between LGBTQ family and heterosexual family.. and I'm straight. At one point I thought I was born to be like family and tested my sexuality like most in my time.. 40 yrs old looking at this now.. is like what if a bunch of devil worshippers or Satanist marched and wrote on churches you'd be ready to shut them down just like LGBTQ... The point is your walk is personal and seek and ye shall find meant when the Bible changes don't be afraid to go ask someone who may believe something different than you to clarify words and translation. The problem is uniformity causes wars and denigration. Therefore, no one is right according to older versions of slavery written in black in white by people who were slavers. There's a story in every cultural background.. and that's why seeking is the commandment so many skip over. This shouldn't even be an issue.. you don't like the churches views pick another. But to show up looking for trouble means you asked for trouble. It is a shame that people are not treated how they are supposed to be treated like... Different. And if there's a problem violent behavior will always breed violent behaviors back. But to persecute in the name of the church on a church is an oximoron. Didn't we go through this before? Wasn't this in story of Alexander the great or stories of Spartans or American history itself... Slavery begats slavery and violence will always lead to more blood spilling.. then we all will march for disrespect of something or some beliefs. The part of "he who is without sin, let him cast the first stone.. gets pushed past and brushed aside to leave room for more opinion that shouldn't even be relevant. The point here... Why come to the church if you already know they support.. so you spread your personal hatred and hope others jump on board like sheep or cattle for the shepherd to heard. At the end of the day. Love wasn't present and that we should all be worried about. Problems abroad and on our soil means none of us are watching for the signs the same book people are being persecuted by.. speaks of. Repeating in scriptures over and over in different wording and those blessed to see... Catch the signs. Shameful behavior. Especially since I come from an LGBT family.
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Pastor George Day
Evone Payton Banks (Minister non denominational),
Respectfully, it is tough to understand what you say in your post. That's when correct spelling, punctuation, and paragraphing make a difference.
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Jennifer Rebecca Lovsey
LOL! The US was never "a Christian" nation nor will it ever be.
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Pastor George Day
Jennifer Rebecca Lovsey,
This has already been addressed. Scroll up the posts!
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Donald G Magel
Fyi anti pride folks: You cannot catch Gay. Really, it is not contagious. If you are so afraid that you a will catch it from others then you may already be carrying it inside of you all this time. If you are then it was god's will. We are all made in his name. Even in that bible trump is hawking. Easeup, you will look better in HIS eyes.
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Jacob Burcham
LGBTQ movement was created by the WORLD ECONOMIC FORUM (WEF). Led by Klaus Schwab (son of an engineer for the third reich) the WEF is a collaboration of the dying nazi regime, and the Zionist party that invaded Israel in the 60’s as refugees. With a bit of research, one will clearly find the same propaganda used by the third reich towards youth just rebranded. (purporting a civil rights movement for equality while slowly infiltrating and occupying the education system, government, churches, hospitals, etc….)
The LGBTQ movement is nothing more than rebranded nazi propaganda targeting the youth of the America, as the fastest way to gain control over a nation is to gain control over the youth.
LISTEN UP FOLKS! EQUALITY HAS NOT AND NEVER WILL BE GIVEN BY A POLITICAL PARTY!
It is GOD given and in the hearts of WE THE PEOPLE. THE DIVISION OF FAMILY AND NEIGHBOR COMES FROM A TYRANNICAL POWER PARADING AS AN EQUITABLE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.I implore all of you to please go and read the Geneva bible. The amount of information changed and omitted in later translations of the Bible is astounding and eye opening as to what is really going on in the world currently. Also some research should be done on the elite groups and families that meet and decide the fate of the average individual, which they see as nothing more than ants in an ant farm.
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Jennifer Rebecca Lovsey
You might what to look into getting good psychiatric help instead of posting far out there conspiracy theories.
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Jacob Burcham
Maybe do a bit of research before you go replying to something.
1946 president Truman announced his approval of a bill to allow 100,000 displaced zionists occupancy into Palestine. The occupancy took place between 1947-1948.
On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel was created and established under zionist authority. During this time the third reich was being charged for their crimes against humanity, and members were looking for an escape plan. The Zionist party and the German national socialist party had remarkably similar political agendas, and mutual admiration and trust throughout the 1930’s-1940’s. Out of this relationshio came the MAPAI (the workers party of the land of Israel) aka Zionist socialism movement. MAPAI was the founding and first ruling party over the state of Israel. It takes no time at all to cross reference members of the WEF with the MAPAI party. And come on! are you all too thick skulled and blind to see the clear similarities between hitlers youth propaganda, and modern LGBTQ propaganda infiltrating schools and churches with the implicit intent to indoctrinate young, impressionable minds??-
Pastor George Day
Jacob Burcham,
You fail to report that LGBT+ persons were also victims of genocide from the Nazi regime. They were identified with pink (for males) and black triangles (for women). And so were Jesohvah's Witnesses (purple triangles).
We were the only ones who never received any kind of restorative justice, viz LGBT+ & JWs.
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Russel A. Kester
Jacob, there's a lot to consider in your comment. I am becoming more aware of how big money and power have infiltrated our educational system and the similarities between the Nazi takeover of the German educational system and our own by the elites.
Klaus Schwab definitely has an ace up his sleeve for why he started the WEF. We should be weary of both. I don't agree that gay and lesbian equality has anything to do with his motivations. But it is interesting to entertain the idea that the effort to queer all of Western civilization might be part of someone's agenda and not for the good.
I've never read from the Geneva Bible, but will research it.
Truth truly is often stranger than fiction.
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Jacob Burcham
I believe the recent queer push is nothing more than a move to de-masculate the average citizen. Their hope is that Fluffy girly boys won’t have the fortitude to stand up with guns drawn and risk life and limb against a tyrannical coup. Which I think the takeover will be coming shortly, just look at all the millions of foreign born UNITED NATIONS military personnel, being admitted to the US as refugee immigrants, these UN militia members are given state nationality rather than citizenship, (meaning they are not members of UNITED STATES CO. And therefore are not contractually obliged to adhere to federal regulation aka the USC.)
Since they are members of the UN, they also have what’s known as limited diplomatic immunity here in the states. (This is the same diplomatic passport I get for being ambassador of a foreign nation)
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Walter J. Holbrook
The bible teaches us about the, sins of the judgement that claim to do things in God's name. The heretic, self-righteous, the false prophets. This is the devils. God accepts the unsaved to save them. It is not yours or my job to play God or play with his words. The Pharisees with there contempt for Jesus spread false narratives to gain legitimate popularity. Deceit, lies, God said love thy brother and sister. Why can't you. Does your pride override the word of God.
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Sean Nettles
Homosexuality Abomination in its truest form it should not be allowed in any church in the world that practices genuine authentic Christianity I'll stand by my beliefs 100% that man was made for woman and woman was made for men anything other than that is nothing but pure manipulation from the evil devil is manipulate God is love don't mistake the two
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Jennifer Rebecca Lovsey
Typical bigotry wrapped up with hate.
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Walter J. Holbrook
I ask my friend. How do we reach the unsaved if not in the house of the Lord
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Pastor George Day
Sean Nettles,
What about those who are born intersex? Who made the mistake there?
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Chris
Of course PRIDE is under attack. It's being attacked by those who claim they're the ones under attack, the evangelical extreme right-wing who know nothing of love or the teachings of Jesus. They only want to force everyone to follow their version of religion. Their leader called for making Muslims wear a special symbol on their clothing so they can be identified, just like the Nazis did with Jewish people. Several of their number have called for flat out murder of anyone who doesn't identify they way they want. They're the ones boycotting Starbucks for not having Jesus on their Xmas coffee cups. They throw around OT verses like everyone is supposed to follow them while they themselves ignore other verses right around those. They follow a man who has broken most of the 10 commandments.
Basically, PRIDE is under attack by zealots who want to play victim when they're actually the bully.
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Michelle Lynn Vetter
I used to be a part of that group and walked away. The leaders don't believe what they preach. They're all scam artists who do all the things they tell followers not to do. There are true believers that follow them, but all of this stuff is just to keep them occupied so they don't notice their own rights being taken away. The leaders aren't going to "save" them all all with their political machinations, just themselves.
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Lee Ramos
We have to love the people and not the sin. Funny thing is that God himself did not approve of the word pride so we should never partake in anything that will celebrate sometime that we don't believe just to appease the people and times. Who are we trying to please. God or man. Why are churches practicing the ways of man just to get approval? I say continue to love people and speak the truth and stand on the word of God.
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Walter J. Holbrook
Tolerance my friend. Not judgement.
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Lee Ramos
Thanks but I don't think its judgment saying the truth.
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Steven Ferrell
Those so called churches are condoning sin, but they should not be vandalized.
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Merlin
A lot of Christianity = fear = hate. Sad.
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John M. Endress
It’s too bad that religous groups have to advertise their willingness to include all persons. I assume that all houses of worship are open to me until expressed otherwise. You may think that’s a bit nieve, but a positive attitude has served me well, so far.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Maybe some churches advertise who is accepted because so many other churches make it clear that they are not wanted.
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Walter J. Holbrook
So mush my friend we speak of the demon outside of the church. But what of the ones inside the house of God.
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John Alex Paxson
Live and let live ... something most of humanity has not learned to live by .... yet??
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Nicholas J Page
Enough is enough with the constant harassment of the LGBTQ Community what have they done to hurt you so called Christians What gives you the right to deface churches or any buildings
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
The hate and the violence IS their reason. Simply put, the political pundits want scapegoats they can use to point to and use as a "boogeyman" for people to hate, fear, and want to attack, while the talking heads get away with nearly murder.
It's all about "Creating an Enemy". They create an enemy that they then spew hate against, they use their bibles, they convince zealots among a few small select churches to scream it in the pulpits and get people all worked up, and then the microphones get turned onto them and they spread "The enemy" to the people and get people seeing those who are "different" in their view as "dangerous".
They scream about how their very existence threatens "the children". "Oh, think of the children!" And any time news comes out of some youngster under the age of 18 that has come out, they point to the kid and go "See?? See?? They're trying to indoctrinate your kids! They're trying to HURT your kids!!" Among other things.
And they encourage families whose kids may be LGBTQI+ to send the kids to "camps" to be "cured" where the kids are treated so horrible that some even end themselves. They encourage families to mistreat their LGBTQI+ family members calling them "perverted".
But the hate and violence IS the message. It IS the reason. There's no reason for it, it's the reason itself.
The LGBTQI+ are not hurting any christians. Them living their lives freely like any other person does nothing. But apparently it's "evil."
They especially target MALES who are LGBTQI+ Because apparently, two women being together is "hot", but two males being in love is "gross and evil."
A woman wearing men's clothing complete with tie is "Just fine, it's just clothes."
A Man wearing women's clothing, such as a dress is "Evil, perverted, they're pedophiles!" Even though they've never touched anyone. Apparently they're "perverted pedo's" just because they wear a dress.
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Walter J. Holbrook
Remember. You that judge these people were once and still judged for believing in Christ Jesus. Stop Hating.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
There is no hate, like Christian "love".
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Pastor George Day
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk,
Can you explain how a male person can be 'L'...GBTQI+? Boy, your stretch of imagination never seems to amaze me!
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Colleen McAllister
Another person's sexual practice, or preference, is no one else's business. If you believe they are sinners then treat them as such. Love them. Welcome them. And share your beliefs with them in a loving and non-judgemental way. Leave the rest to God.
Committing crimes is not the way to protest.
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Stacey Owens
God's house is not the building. It's the the body is the church. The building means nothing.
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Alexander Arends
If you condemn PETA or environmentalists for vandalism, then you should condemn religious ZEALOTS for doing the same thing. It benefits no one.
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Merlin
Fear is the “secret sauce” of control.
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery. Why isn't anyone howling for Trump to be dragged into the streets and stoned as Leviticus preaches?
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Russel A. Kester
Matthew, now you want to be a believer in the laws of the OT when you don't like the possibility of Trump being president again? LOL. Talk about situational ethics!
Okay, now to be a little more serious. If the US is to be a Christian nation in the cultural sense, the NT doesn't demand any stoning. In fact, the Christ said to the woman that he didn't condemn her and that she should go and sin no more. Also, I'm not sure that stoning applied to men. It seemed to be a females only crime from the accounts I remember reading in the Bible.
After all, like Eve, it's the woman whose the temptress and therefore to blame ... a sexist would say.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Ok, first, this is NOT a Christian Nation. The United States is a Secular Nation. Even culturally, the USA is a Secular Nation. If it was a "Christian Nation", then all other religions would've been banned from this nation. And being Muslim, pagan, or Atheist, would be a prison sentence.
And yes, it would be quite sexist to say that women are only the ones to be blamed when it comes to adultery.
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Russel A. Kester
Bridget, our wonderful nation started out as a culturally Christian nation as one can read in Federalist Paper No. 2 which specifically says that the several states all practiced the same religion and therefore should have no issues with federalization. I do agree that secularism does seem to hold sway today, but with enough faith we can make it go away. (I just had to try to find a rhyme to go with sway.) But we probably still have a Christian culture in many ways. Being a Christian nation would not necessarily mean there would be no other faiths only that they would not be the dominant faith. Islam completely takes over a nation and they are Islamic nations without a doubt, but even today after centuries of persecutions one can still find a few Christians or even Jews.
I was just shocked; shocked I say to see that you think men could in any way be held responsible for adultery. Okay, even the OT didn't give that much leeway. But then it didn't need to as men like the patriarchs could have several wives and still have sex with the female servants (slaves). Today, we just call it being polyamorous.
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Joy
"I do agree that secularism does seem to hold sway today, but with enough faith we can make it go away."
Are you kidding me? You would force Christainity on everyone, taking away our individual rights? I think you have been watching too much Handmaid's and taking Orwell to heart. You are part of the problem with Christianity and why no one takes you seriously. Who'd want to be a part of that?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
First off, the United States is NOT A Christian Nation and never been a Christian Nation. Both the 1st Amendment, which makes it clear there is a strict separation of Church and State, "No laws shall be written which endorses or enforces any one religion", and then there is the Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11 which reads the following:
“As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religious or tranquility of Musselmen, and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”
This was written by our founding fathers. And no, most of the founding fathers were not Christians. They were mostly protestants and deists. There were very few who practiced Christianity.
The fact you state hared toward other religions in your posting is one of the reasons that the Founding Fathers made it clear that our nation is Secular. Period.
And no, we will not be making it "go away" and we will not be turning the United States into a "Christian Theocracy." To do so would mean individuals like myself would either be put in prison, or summarily executed, for the "crime" of refusing to be Christian.
To be Muslim is no different, same behavior, just different name of calling it.
You also speak as though it is your belief women should be held beneath a boot. That is to say, that women, because we are female, are lesser beings that should be forced to be "obedient" when that has never been true except in times where it was either "Obey or be beaten into it, or killed".
And no we didn't start out as Culturally Christian either. In fact, most individuals were, again Protestants, or they didn't actually follow any religion at all. They were too busy surviving. Even the thing in Salem was due to Protestant and Catholic beliefs. Though in that era Christian was not much better.
Fact is, to ram one religion down people's throats would be to completely eliminate ALL other religions. You look at what's happening in the Middle East to "religious minorities". They are massacred. Genocided, every man, woman, and child, slaughtered.
Are you saying you want THAT slaughter to occur here too?
And you seem to be, subtly, not so subtly, stating that being LGBTQI+ should also be completely wiped out Would you insist, as it is in nations that ARE religious theocracies, that they be imprisoned and publicly executed?
And again, no, the United States has never been, and will never be, a Christian Nation. No matter how many try to force it. Unless they intend to BREAK the Treaty of Tripoli, and completely erase the 1st Amendment of the United States constitution.
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ServantOfJudgement
While the founding documents prohibit a government mandated religion, 75-98% of the population were Christians during the revolutionary war. We might expect the elected and appointed leaders at the time would share this with their constituents.
Those constituents were the ones that secured the freedoms we used to enjoy. I wonder if there's a connection between the decline in Christianity and the decline of our freedoms.
We're a non Christian nation that was filled with and secured by Christians. Very interesting indeed.
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Nonnye Lynn Lucky
This country was not founded by Christians. It was founded by the Natives who had arrived centuries before and they did not have a Christian belief system. If this country Had been founded by Christian and they had truely followed the Christ teaching the massicure of the nativies, would not have happened. Nor would we be living in a Fasciest country. What freedoms have the white men of this country lost?
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Russel A. Kester
Nonnye, if we accept the year 1776 as the year our nation, The United States of America, was founded then, yes, it was founded by Christians and hence is culturally a Christian nation. The other tribal nations were established long before that time, but were not and are not the nation we live in today unless you live on a reservation which is recognized as a separate nation.
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Robert Gagnon
thought most of them were free masons
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester,
As with my country (the Principality of Sealand), it is a shame that the Indian nations do not appear on the maps. If Palestine does, ours should also be there!
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Pastor George Day
Nonnye Lynn Lucky,
The Indians were decimated primarily due to the fact they had no antibodies to fight the diseases the Europeans carried with them.
The USA is not the same as the native nations. They still exist with their own sovereignty and international representation via the USA.
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Patricia Ann Gross
I agree with most of what you said. I just have one question: when did Protestants get removed from the Christian faith? Protestants are most of the non-Catholic denominations that arose from the Reformation.
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Russel A. Kester
Patricia, Protestants are Christians. Bridget does not ascribe to the Christian faith and so gets some things wrong. But she has great passion and a good heart.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Just because I do not ascribe to the Christian Faith does NOT mean I am wrong, nor does it mean I know nothing about the faith.
You judge me, but do not even know me. I happen to have been born and raised Roman Catholic. I have likely read more bibles than you ever have. Also Protestants are NOT Christians. And they would fight you on that. They are one of many Catholic faiths, though in truth, the two are almost identical these days.
Also, what "decline in freedoms" are YOU seeing?
Are you being imprisoned for following your faith? Are you being harassed / abused for loving someone of the same sex? Are you being harassed / abused for being of one gender but looking like another gender? Are you being told? Are you being told that you no longer have autonomy over your own body? Are you being told you're nothing more than an incubator with legs and if you try to travel out of your home county / state you could be arrested?
Tell me, what "Rights" are being eroded when people demand the 1st amendment, and the Treaty of Tripoli be both acknowledged and enforced so that people are NOT forced, by law, to worship a religion that is NOT their own?
What "Rights" are being eroded when people demand their children NOT be forced to worship a religion that their family does now follow?
You are not losing ANY rights, but you sure seem intent on slamming your bible over the heads of others and removing THEIR rights.
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Pastor George Day
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk,
You sound a bit rather confused.
I am Protestant. We are Christian. You seem to confuse the words Catholic to mean Christia and vice versa.
I think you need to chill a bit.
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Pastor George Day
Poor dear Bridget Kielas-Fecyk!
You are so confused!
First, Catholics and Protestants ARE Christians - to your dismay. And second, you need a history lesson to review your alleged knowledge!
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
By the way, what you say of "The Federalist"? This is the same rag that hates Dolly Parton for encouraging children to read more books. It has become, and in truth always has been, an Alt-Right, Ultra-Conservative rag that spreads hate and religious zealotry, not any actual honesty.
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Russel A. Kester
Bridget, I was referring to the book, The Federalist Papers, which is a compilation of the newspaper articles written by some of our founders encouraging the several states to ratify the new federal constitution not the nonprofit organization. The book can be found on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Federalist-Papers-Alexander-Hamilton/dp/0553213407
I specifically referenced Federalist Paper No. 2 which says that the several states shared a common religion. That religion was Christianity. That is our nation's history regardless of whatever they pass off as history in education today.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Even IF they shared a common religion, that does NOT mean the USA, is in any way, shape, or form, a Christian Nation. Never has been, never will be.
Two things, 1st amendment FORBIDS our courts, or our lawmakers, to enforce any religion. The United States of America is a SECULAR nation, not a Christian one, not a Catholic one, not an Evangelical one, not a religious nation at all.
1st Amendment -- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Then there's the Treaty of Tripoli which the USA is STILL bound to. Written by our Founding Fathers. It strictly stated that the United States is a SECULAR nation.
Treaty of Tripoli - Article 11 - “As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religious or tranquility of Musselmen, and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”
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Russel A. Kester
Bridget, I responded to you else where and show that the treaty to which you refer was broken by Jefferson when he refused to continue to pay tribute to pirates and was superceded by a new treaty. I also address their the idea that the term secular today is used differently than it was back in the 1700s. It was used to distinguish a nation whose head of state was not a cleric or Pope as opposed to those which were. Today secular means an ideology. That is way secularism today is considered by many to be a religion which it was not in 1776 when it simply meant not a matter of the church.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
First off, no it wasn't broken by Jefferson and it is NOT "superseded by a new Treaty". All treaties that the USA has signed that has anything to do with religion have ALL said the same thing. "The United States is a SECULAR nation. I.e. Non-Religious. Not following a single ideology, but allowing for the following and worship of many.
It's not used any differently today than it was back in the 1700's. You are hoping it was, but it was not. Secular today does NOT mean "an ideology". Nor is being Secular a religion. The ones that claim it is are the same individuals who outright claim being an Atheist is being religious.
Secularism is a way of life and thinking that rejects religion. I.e. Secular is the same as saying an Atheistic nation. A nation that does NOT worship any religion. And while there is a very minor christian majority at this time, that was not always the case. The founding fathers, and many that followed them, were Deists. You'd call them Agnostics today.
However the "christians" are trying to NOW ram their religion down everyone's throats, trying to REMOVE people's freedom to NOT worship. Trying to REMOVE people's freedom to worship what they want without having other people's religions forced into their faces all the time.
You address nothing than your wish that what I state were false. However, I have given you the information multiple times. The only thing you have shown me is a book worshipped by the Alt-Right to try to use as their reason to ram THEIR religion down everyone's throats and rip the "No religion shall be officially recognized as the state religion" and the "People are free to worship however they wish" out of the 1st amendment. And completely rip up the Treaty of Tripoli.
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Russel A. Kester
Bridget, in another post I've addressed the errors of your thinking and provided some outside quotes to help. I'll sum some of it up here by simply saying that to supercede means to replace. The old is gone and of no affect and the new is present and in full force.
When people write or speak of secularism today, it is an 'ism' which means it is a likely religion. I asked Google AI if religions had to have a belief in God. It responded, "No, not all religions require belief in a god or gods. Some religions, such as Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, and Jainism, are considered nontheistic. For example, Buddhism doesn't accept a theistic understanding of God because it assumes the universe has no beginning and therefore doesn't need a creator god. Hinduism is also sometimes considered nontheistic because it emphasizes following one's dharma, or duty, over worshiping deities." Of note, words that end in 'ism' in the quote are religions. Words like secular which distinguishes it from its opposite, religious, do not end in 'ism'.
To say that no one religion, denomination in the thinking of our founding fathers, is officially recognized is not the same as saying that a nation does not have a cultural religion. Many countries are acknowledged to be Islamic or Buddhist or Christian culturally even though they might have republican or monarchical forms of government.
One of the definitions of religion as described by the Oxford Language online dictionary is "a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance." That sounds like a way of life and thinking which are the words you used to describe secularism. So, secularism seems like it's a religion using your own descriptors.
Finally, I asked Google AI if Protestants were Christians and it responded, "Yes, Protestants are Christians: Explanation: Protestantism is a branch of Christianity that began in northern Europe in the early 16th century. The term "Protestant" refers to a large number of Christian groups, with The Handbook of Denominations 1 listing over 240 groups that can be identified as such."
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester,
You're wasting your time with Bridgie. That energy can be spent somewhere else. But you give a good detailed explanation.
Thank you :-)
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Pastor George Day
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk,
What pills are you on? Are you sure it's the tight prescription?
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Pastor George Day
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk,
Anyone a the tiniest knowledge of Christian History would tell you that Islam is a Christian matrix. It was birthed during the Mya[phsite/Nestorian controversy.
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Pastor George Day
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk,
Te USA was founded on Christian principles by the Pilgrim Fathers.
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Pastor George Day
Matthew Mastrogiovanni,
Because Trump has repented :-)!
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Michael Holland
God's promise was the rainbow! People need to get over themselves and their beliefs and stop casting judgment, only God can do that!
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ServantOfJudgement
That's right. The rainbow represents a covenant made by God given to man for him to remember the covenant not to destroy the earth with water again.
Now it's a symbol of two trans dudes dressed as nuns crotch grinding a crucifix or whatever you want to have sex with.
You've reduced God's promise to a sexual preference celebrated in pride.
Good luck with that.
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Nonnye Lynn Lucky
You are talking about a "god" who encouraged, no commanded the slaughter of men, women and children because they were on land he wanted for "his"people. He not only commanded the murder of these people but ordered that anyone who tried to prevent this butcheray should be stoned. This same "god" allowed Job, one of his most devote servents to sufer all the torments that "satan" could heep on him just for a wager. This torment meant the murder of ALL his children. You know you could be right, this "god" and his people do seem to have taken over this country.
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Pastor George Day
Michael Holland,
You are right on the first pt of your argument. However, the dilemma is that the LGBT community has sabotaged the property and meaning of the rainbow!
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
As a ULC bishop, who’s been twice sainted, with two DD’s, I refuse to allow anyone to be a member of my congregation— unless they agree to try their best, to apply the Golden Rule to anything they say, write, argue about in the public view— or use to appeal to intolerant voters. As Buddhism is credited with first putting into words, what’s now the Golden Rule, the Universal Life Church as now “picked up the torch” which the Christian Churches dropped. and made it an assumed part of its motto, We are all part of the same Universe” and if you don’t like that, you can lump it.(short for what was formerly called, excommunication)
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ServantOfJudgement
You mean if a guy wants to be beaten up with a hammer it's ok for him to beat someone up with a hammer? If a chick likes cutting herself with a razor, it's ok for her to cut people with a razor?
Without a superior moral reference, the golden rule equates to putrid rotten meat regurgitated by a sick dog.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
and so if someone believes in and wants to be governed by a silly cloud clown god and follow without question nonsensical stories and cruel, homicidal/infanticide/misogynistic rules and laws it's okay to make others believe in the same silly nonsene?
without a superior moral reference the bible equates to putrid, rotten meat regurgitated by a sick dog
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Nonnye Lynn Lucky
You don't actually know what the Golden Rule is do you. Are you a bot? It seems like your responds are designed to offend without breaking the 3 rules listed in the reply section. And it seems like you know just enough to use the right words but not the right language. Hmmm? This is a inquire not insult or criticizem of you. But I have noticed in the things you write the simularities of the bots on twitter and here.
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Pastor George Day
Bishop William Dusenberry, DD,
As I have pointed out, Universalism is a radical branch of Protestantism, like Quakerism - hence, 'inclusive' Christianity.
I am curious as to how many members your congregation has.
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Val Jester
I will never condone the destruction of property for any reason. Having said that, why are these “churches” who do not believe the Bible calling themselves churches.?
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Joy
I think these churches believe in Jesus’ message far better than the majority of “Christian” churches today.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
These churches very much believe in the bible. In fact, they believe more strongly in it than those individuals who spew hate, vitriol, and act in violence towards the LGBTQ+ Community. Many of them follow the TRUE Teachings of their holy man, Jesus.
A common representative of this is the Sermon on the Mount. Mathew 5 - 7 New Testament.
Unfortunately, sadly, a lot of these hate-filled individuals also believe that the words such as the Sermon on the Mount is "weak" and should be "pulled from the bible". It's heartbreaking to see how many want to turn to hate and violence, instead of acceptance and kindness towards others.
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Russel A. Kester
Bridget, I don't know of any measurements one uses to determine who believes the Bible more between two persons or groups. Perhaps this is an area that Christians will determine for themselves through time. But it seems to be an impossible task for an outsider to determine.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Here's the thing, I'm not an outsider. I was born and raised roman catholic and I learned multiple bibles pretty thoroughly. Even though I broke away at age 15, I haven't forgotten.
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Walter J. Holbrook
The Apostle Paul in Romans speaks of how the Jews looked down on Gentiles because they worshiped God differently than in The Old Testament. Does this makes an uncircumcised man less than one that is.
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Russel A. Kester
Bridget, thank you for sharing your background. I doubt many youth have a deep theological understanding of the Christian faith at only 15 which is when you chose a different path for yourself. I'm in my 60's and am still learning deeper truths in Christian theology. It's a life long pursuit to gain understanding and then, God willing, wisdom. As the church has defined its doctrine throughout the last 2,000 years, its membership will be able to determine who believes it adequately and who falls short.
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Pastor George Day
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk,
Catholics, with respect, are well known for not reading the Bible, or reading bad translations when they do - not to quote the additional texts!
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Pastor George Day
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk,
Catholics, with respect, are well known for not reading the Bible, or reading bad translations when they do - not to quote the additional texts!
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John Condron
Oh no! Another group of Christians who interpret the Bible differently than Val Jester?
We can't have that! Stone them! Burn them!
Only Val Jester gets to say how to interpret the Bible!
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Pastor George Day
Who's Val Jester?
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Michael Holland
Cheap comment!
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Pastor George Day
Michael Holland,
Whose comments are you referring to?
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Michael Holland
Unnecessary comment!
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Walter J. Holbrook
Let me say thank you for that point.
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ServantOfJudgement
Val,
Seems like everyone nowadays loves to quote Jesus but ignore half the quote:
Love your Lord your God with all your heart all your soul and all your mind. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Everyone belts that out as a tool and knows nothing of nor agrees with the first of the two commandments.
They'll shout that to a bible believing Christian to shame them then go crotch grind each other or a crucifix.
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Walter J. Holbrook
Well Said.
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Pastor George Day
Val Jester,
Homosexuality is not a core biblical teaching to disqualify churches like pro-LGBT churches and Metropolitan Community Church. A Christian accepts Jesus' atoning work on the cross (or torture stake) and Jews are those who are born or adopted into Israel.
I happen to be both!
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Quinn R Amaro
How is it that those who desecrate a church believe they are right for the what they do? It is the individuals in their ignorance who are causing the problems, not buildings. The same applies to those who attend church yet have no true concept of what you speak. Read Romans 1:18-2:11 and Romans 3:9-20
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Those that are hate-filled and enraged over the idea of love and acceptance should remember the teachings in the New Testament of their holy man, Jesus.
A common representative of this is the Sermon on the Mount. Mathew 5 - 7 New Testament.
Unfortunately, sadly, a lot of these hate-filled individuals also believe that the words such as the Sermon on the Mount is "weak" and should be "pulled from the bible". It's heartbreaking to see how many want to turn to hate and violence, instead of acceptance and kindness towards others.
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Pastor George Day
Quinn R Amaro,
These are very appropriate Bible quotes to target this situation.
Thank you!
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Robert Gagnon
If you're a christian, you are still desecrating Gods house. It's not your job to judge parishioners. Don't complain if they find out who did it and you get a rainbow painted on your house.It's so weak to damage anyone's property.
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Russel A. Kester
These vandals may well be getting their messages across to the general public. And the more it's made newsworthy the further their messages will spread. The messages didn't start with them. They're acting on messages they've heard and what has been reported to them. As this response to the trans and queer activists spreads throughout society advocating that it's time for people to fight back and not feel shamed for doing so in order to protect children from predators and bad gender ideologies the more severe will be the actions of such actors as these. Lesbians and gays are being included because the HRC decided to include T and Q in order to continue it's funding after gay marriage was ruled constitutional by the SCOTUS and HRC needed a new cause as gays and lesbians had achieved equality. It's quite sad.
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Robert James Ruhnke
What’s quite sad is you’re arguing for the scapegoating trans and queer people for the actions of right wing religious hate mongers who’ve always had it in for the entire LGBTQIA+ community. What’s saddest of all? You’re using a twisted version of their bigoted logic to justify your own veiled hatred.
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Patricia Ann Gross
This is like "blaming" the media for the rise in gun violence and mass shootings. What alternative do you propose? Informing the public of a hazzard within its midst is responsible journalism.
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Russel A. Kester
Patricia, good point. I only claimed that the perpetrators might be getting what they want and are therefore so far successful. It's assessment of their strategy. How the media should handle such events is their problem. Does it want to contribute to the problem by making these person 'famous' and possibly leading to copy cats? That is the journalist's dilemma. Thank God I'm not a journalist. What do you think they should do?
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Patricia Ann Gross
Simple. Error on the side of an informed public.
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Russel A. Kester
Patricia, an informed public? You must live on another planet. Watch some YouTube videos in which people are asked very simple questions which they cannot answer. One person was asked who was the first person to walk on the sun and she answered Neil Armstrong. Really? On the sun? No, the general public is not so well informed as it was in the past. But that was a gracious thought.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, I haven't argued for the scapegoating of anyone. I stated my assessment of what has happened to get us to the point where some people are beginning to act out more aggressively and what might be the case in the future. What do you see in my "logic" that would cause you to believe that it is twisted, bigoted, or hateful as your comment lacked any specificity about it.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
So you are saying they should be trying to focus the hate on Trans and Intersex individuals and use them as the "target"? Esp as these hate-mongers are getting more and more violent? Will we be willing to sacrifice these individuals, let them get beaten, possibly even killed, while everyone turns a blind eye?
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Russel A. Kester
Bridget, no, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that understanding the possible underlying reasons why many people in society are reacting to gender theory and trans activism is important to understanding why we are seeing some people act out. I also question how far this will go. I also mean that it is the activists who made this a front and center issue in society. Now that there seems to be a backlash, look to those who started the fight not to those who intend to finish it.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Here's the thing. We already know why people are "back-lashing" at it. Individuals in pulpits screaming hatred to the ones listening. As well as political mouthpieces using the LGBTQI+ individuals as scapegoats as to "what's wrong with this nation.
Since these individuals are a major minority in the United States, they make a good scapegoat. Especially if people can whip up a religious fervor about it and call it a "holy war." Remember what happens to religious minorities the moment powerful, and rich, individuals call a "holy war" against them.
Tell people enough times that a small group are the "source of all your problems", and then throw in BS horror-stories of "they're hunting your children", and "They will destroy your families", and other BS rhetoric, and watch how people who would've otherwise been fairly reasonable, suddenly turn toward hate and rage.
Sadly, this often also means if their own children come out as LGBTQI+, they end up turning on, and sometimes even killing in extreme cases, their own children. Though more often than not, they throw their own kids into the streets to suffer, then blame the rest of the community on something they, themselves, did.
Since being LGBTQI+ is genetic, it's just how a person was born, it's not like the individuals are actively choosing to be that way to "rebel", it's just who they are.
This reminds me of the kind of rhetoric I used to hear as a kid even in the 1980's, when people talked of blacks and whites marrying and having children. Or mixed - race families trying to adopt white children. Or if a mixed-race family had given birth to white kids.
Same kind of hate and avarice, now directed at a different group.
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Russel A. Kester
Bridget, I think I'm seeing more clearly where you're coming from. Seeing how college campuses have become radicalized by Islamists to become grossly anti-Semitic confirms your concerns about how quickly the masses of uninformed, useful idiots can be persuaded to do unconscionable things. I'm a gay man myself and support full rights and responsibilities for lesbians and gays. That's not what this fight is about. The fight is an ideological fight over really bad gender and queer theories. Not science. Sociological theories. What too many gays and lesbians have yet to realize is that those theories are actually working against the legitimacy of this community by 1) declaring that gay and lesbian do not exist because gender is a social construct and one is male, female, gay, or straight based solely on their actions which can change daily. I am gay because I am a man attracted to men not the other way around as these theories would have us believe. 2) It is the activists pushing these ideologies that are to be resisted and made all of this a big issue which brings undesirable attention to persons experiencing transgender dysphoria. These activists are concerned with their ideological theories which they hope to use to aid in the destabilization of our country and unmoor it from its culture and historical foundations. They are not concerned with actual persons. Only the ideologies. Finally, these activists latched onto the legitimate successes of gays and lesbians by trying to identify their cause with that of the former. The causes are not the same. They are very different. Being gay or lesbian is an inherent, enduring sexuality, a part of our very being. Gender dysphoria is a mental healthcare issue to be addressed by professionals in that field. Activist want to conflate the two for ideological and political reasons.
My comments are not about hate. They are about protecting the legitimate civil rights and protections for gay men and women from bad social theories that threaten my community and could in the long run cause it to lose the ground it has gained. The LGBs are different from the T's and both groups are radically different from the Q.
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester,
I am a gay man diagnosed with gender dysphoria.
What you say makes perfect sense!
Thank you for taking the time to elaborate it eloquently.
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Btw, to the straight, religious, individuals screaming about PRIDE -- Since WHEN were you guys arrested, put into prison, beaten, and MURDERED for being straight?
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk,
Good point!