Did Jesus have two moms? According to one priest… maybe.
A Catholic Church in Italy is under fire after displaying a Nativity scene depicting Jesus with two moms, one of the women draped in a rainbow flag.
Now a petition condemning the display has been launched by critics who say the display is nothing short of blasphemous.
Although the petition has been signed by tens of thousands of people around the world, the priest isn’t backing down.
The Virgins Mary
Father Vitaliano Della Sala of the Church of Saints Peter and Paul says he was hoping to modernize our view of Mary and Joseph.
"I wanted to show with this scene that families are no longer just the traditional ones," he said in explanation for the controversial Nativity display, which replaces Joseph with a woman.
"In our parishes we see more and more children from the new types of families that exist and are part of our society, children of separated and divorced people, gay couples, single people, young mothers,” Della Sala added.
Known as "the disobedient priest," Father Della Sala is well known in Italy for his sympathies with the LGBTQ community, including participating in Pride parades as far back as 2002.
"I am a Catholic priest who is often not in agreement and often in dissent with the Catholic hierarchy," he explained. "But I think that dissent is necessary in bettering my faith, to be in such a way that my faith is lived better. I think that dissent is also necessary to better the church that I belong to."
Jesus Gone Woke
Almost as quickly as the Nativity display was put up, so too was a petition denouncing it.
Written by the Italian pro-life group Pro-Vita & Famiglia, the petition decries the display as “dangerous,” “shameful,” and “blasphemous.”
They say it “distorts the meaning of the Nativity scene itself and of the holy family,” arguing that Joseph was “sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.”
More than 25,000 individuals have signed the petition to formally say “no" to the altered Nativity scene.
Blasphemy or Not?
But is it blasphemous? Father Della Sala says he’s simply following in Pope Francis’ footsteps, after the pontiff’s recent announcement that Roman Catholic priests can now bless same-sex couples.
“I say we must welcome in the best possible way. We must make them feel at home,” said the priest of the gay community.
But how far should that welcoming hand truly extend? In the majority-Catholic Italy, the debate over Jesus’ lesbian mothers continues to rage even as the Christmas season comes to a close.
What do you think of the Nativity scene? Was it thought-provoking and inclusive as the priest intended, or did it cross a line?
76 comments
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Colleen McAllister
Blasphemy or not, this is wrong. History is history. As Larry Michael D'Amato says above, to be inclusive would be to add LGBQ people to the surrounding characters. I have been around gay people most of my life and this act by the priest is not the way to show inclusivity. The real way to make LGBTQ people feel like everyone else is to stop noticing sexual preferences and simply treat all people Iike people.
Put Joseph back where he belongs.
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Danny D. Maynard
Then you want Jesus to have two dads!
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
And what's wrong with that? Technically, he DID have two dads when you think about it.
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Lionheart
Fallacies rule! 😜
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Colleen McAllister
Jesus had His earthly father and His Heavenly Father (God). He had one mother. Mary.
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Lionheart
I see you’re still believing in those illusionary mythical stories, Lady Colleen, from that book.
I see no one has yet found any skeletal remains of any Unicorns. Do you still believe in a talking donkey, and a talking snake? Just asking for a friend if mine that actually believes that Mr Jesus turned water into a quality red wine. Do we know if it was just a varietal table wine, or was it a full bodied aged Cabernet? 🤔
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ServantOfJudgement
The unicorns are wild oxen which I've been known to simulate one horned oxen after too much scotch, my ex-boss is a serpent that speaks quite well and over the weekend I heard a neighbors donkey from a half a mile away scream something. I was too far away to make out what he said but he sounded pi$$ed.
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Rev Mark D
Lion, so irreverent. You must know of course by now that the point of most churches is to so reverence, or obedience. Anyway, don't you know that animals can talk and do all sorts of things, it's all right there in Harry Potter.
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Lionheart
You’re so right, Sir Mark. It’s also in other books of myth and fiction, similar to the “Bible”, such as “The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe”, and “Alice in Wonderland”.
Out of those 3 works of fiction I find the last one to be very cleverly written. The worse one being the Bible. Way too many errors.
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Lionheart
I do realize my comments are very silly, but you have to say to yourself, are they more silly and idiotic than the stories I mention above that people actually want to believe. They even believe someone lived in the belly of a big fish, and a boat contained 2 of every creature on earth. I know that all sounds crazy but I’m serious.
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Rev Mark D
Ever see Life Of Brian? Colleen is Graham Chapman, Brien is Cleese, and you are Cleese too.
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Brien
And you are still a brainwashed zealot. Yet there is still room for you on this world. Go figure
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James Mounts
Either preach morality to empty pews, or preach the culture to full pews. Today, priests have a hard choice.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Yeah, tough choice. Grow up and deal with the world in a rational manner or stick with Bronze Age nomadic goat herders who thought they could explain the origin of everything while simultaneously being stumped with the question of where the freakin’ fireball went at night.
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Rev. Michael Gerraghty II
Best thing I have read all day!
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
Praise cheeses!
Glad my rantings improve the happiness of some.
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Brien
The trouble with teaching "morality" is that it is always someone else that judges what that morality is. What makes someone else have a better moral compass than you? Would you stand idle while someone tries to indoctrinate you with morality that you don't agree with? As you can see, it is a slippery slope when one belief tries to be dominant over others. The term 'woke" is not used correctly. The correct term is "freedom". I certainly would not use any organized mythical belief as a yardstick to judge with. Peace.
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Danny D. Maynard
Mythologies will always be dictated by the masses now.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Not so tough ...if you want to do what gets you into heaven according to Christian scriptures.
Enter at the narrow gate for wide is the gate and broad is the *way that leads to destruction, and there are many that go through it, because small is the gate and narrow is the way. Which leads to life and there are few that find it.
Matthew 7:13-14
*THAT way being the way of the world.
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Brien
That is the way of the world? You do realize that you are not the king of the world, nor is your opinion the only one that counts. How about this, you keep your house the way you want, but leave mine alone. Okay?
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Rev. MichaelRS
Well we can talk about me being the king of the world later, but for now what we're talking about is that passage of scripture where the first the first time IT mentions THE WAY.
In that case it means the PATH. And the wide or broad gate and many people choose to take the easy path through the wide gate by going along to get along with worldly things.
But the path for the believer is more difficult and there is les room for variance least you get off track.
So yes, in that passage the first WAY is referring to the way of the world and all the evil in it.
Now, if you don't like that, you're going to have to argue not with me but with God... who by the way IS the king of the world.
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Brien
You may refer to YOUR mythical being and call it anything you wish, that is your right. Likewise, I may completely disregard your fantasy brainwashing and chose to remain in reality. I have heard the reasons for this fiction all of my life, and chose instead to have faith in myself and own my actions. Two items that don't seem to appear in your brainwashed belief. What does appear is fear, hate, and even genocide. As I said, you keep your house your way, and I will do the same. Peace ✌️
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Rev Mark D
But when they come for the jews, what will you do?
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Brien
Ahh yes, the "deflect and confuse" strategy that a true believer uses to avoid simple facts. I chose not to play. Organized religious posturing is responsible for more deaths than anything else, including events happening right now. I chose not to participate in the mythical beliefs used to justify murder. It doesn't matter which belief, as to me they are all the same. My original request for you still applies: You keep your house your way and I will do the same with mine. Peace ✌️
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Rev Mark D
Thanks for making my point. It wasn't deflect and confuse, but it's your way of quitting the field while you're behind. Your answer is "when they come for the jews, I will do nothing." My point was the way the old adage goes: "when they finally came for me, there was no one to speak for me because they had all been taken while I stood by and did nothing."
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Brien
Not really certain where you are going with this, but your response reeks of organized brainwashing. As I stated, I will not attempt to point out the unfortunate reality of your grossly misrepresented belief, as I have not met a zealot yet that can converse without sermonizing some make believe fantasy about an all mighty being. The ugly facts about organized brainwashing don't go away simply because you ignore them. You keep your house your way, and I will keep mine, and my house does not require your fantasy beliefs. Peace ✌
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Rev Mark D
Once again, the non-sequitur name calling and ad hominem signifying admission that you have no idea, and a logical concession. Pretty clear you've never had to earn a living by debating. There's no need to riposte in kind or add more of your own smarm, your words stand for you, needing no such weakness from me.
You don't get it because you don't want to, another concession. Much appreciated.
And stop using the word peace like a dismissive slap, people can see what you do and are not nearly as stupid as you like to think they are.
Now let's see if you are the kind of person I think you are, somebody who can't stand to give up having the last word.
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Rev. MichaelRS
In various aspects the scripture speak at length about human pride and the determination to follow their own path rather than the one God has laid out, as well as the rejection of God period. So your position is nothing new.
But the one you really need to argue with about it is not me but rather God, which it seems that you've already been doing for some time.
But as you say, that's your choice. Despite the gross misunderstanding of too many in centuries past, God does not want somebody coming to him at the point of a sword. That is one of the reasons we have free will.
I continue to pray that all will come out of the darkness into the light.
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Brien
Quitting the field? Your playing this game by yourself. I am fine with who I am. You seem to need approval from your mythical being in order to justify yourself, I do not. Your description, "gross misunderstanding" is just another fine example of deflection. Your belief is responsible for horrible wars, murder, genocide, and even slavery all in the name of your god. Not one of you zealots will accept the responsibility of the horror that your belief has caused. That is a fine example of brainwashed thinking. You are the only one between us that is playing a game. Your belief, like other beliefs leads to fear and hate. Now, keep your house your way and I will do the same. Peace ✌️
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Rev. MichaelRS
@Brien
You were answering two posts addressing them as one. Easy error to make the way this comment section is formatted. But I never said anything about quitting the field.
To your other point, yes horrible things have been done in the name of one religion or another. HOWEVER...
...there have been just as many, if not more, atrocities in human history committed by peoples that were NOT motivated by their religious beliefs; The Romans, the Mongols, the Japanese imperialist and German Nazis of World War II, the various communist revolutions of the 20th century, Russia's invasion of Ukraine and much more before and between any of those.
Like you they relied on their inner sense of self to guide their actions. Not saying that you raised the level of any of those evil people, just pointing out that somebody being self-motivating or motivated by ideologies outside of religion is not necessarily by default a virtue.
However, those who have acted poorly and falsely in God's name, as will those who reject God, will one day stand in final judgment to be held accountable for their actions or inactions related to God's commanding or forbidding it.
Lastly, if I'm wrong, when I die, I'll never know the difference. But if you are wrong, when you die...well let's just say eternity, an eternity of suffering, is a very long time.
A philosopher was once asked how long eternity is. To which he replied,
"Picture the Earth as a solid iron ball. Once a year a crow flies down and pecks it three times and then flies off until next year. Under those circumstances the time it takes the crow to wear the Earth down to the size of a BB is just the beginning of eternity."
A very long time indeed. I pray that you will be ready for it one way or the other
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Rev Mark D
They are supposed to do more than preach. They are to be a model.
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Larry Michael Damato
I BELIEVE INCLUSIVENESS IS THE CORRECT STANCE.....HOWEVER .... I THINK THE INTRODUCTION OF A GAY SHEPHERD OR SHEPHERDESS...OR PERHAPS ONE OF THE WISE MEN.... WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE.... A PITY TO CHANGE THAT CUTE LITTLE STORY SO DRASTICALLY....
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James Richard Munro
Same sex nativity scene? Father, forgive them, for they no Not what they do. Pastor Jim
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Danny D. Maynard
I think everyone involved, including you, knows what you are doing!
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Thomas George-Gilmore
The idea that blasphemy is still this petty crime in parts of the world is bothersome. If blasphemy was taken off the statute books worldwide, not just with Christianity but also Islam and Judaism then and only then the world would be a much better inclusive place. As for this priest I say good for him!!
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Rev Mark D
I don't see how you lump the three of them all together.
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Clay Serenbetz
Religion is a myth going back ages and it's transitory. This display is in keeping with evolving modern religious practices. It understandably riles up Conservatives, but time is not on their side.
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Merlin
The story, if true, is metaphorical. It defines that “God” is a product of our simplistic perfection of which the value is within and not from without. The story offers worth only to the reader and is not meant to be a public statement.
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Theresa C. Marquess
I'd like to know, where in the holy books, that priest got his information! That's taking the LGBTQ, etc. thing a tad too far.
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Rev Mark D
Maybe it was in the books that were voted out of the canons (maybe the vote was 50 to 49 or something like that...Trump missed being emperor by 30,000 votes among 3 or 4 states, and a congressional district I know was decided by six votes, and some European coalitions are by the strength of an entire single vote. How many lost her decided by one judicial vote?
But since people made up the whole God story anyway, and these two women aren't out killing jews or pillaging Canadian kids or raping anybody else, what's the problem really? At least Jesus doesn't look like some Viking out of Indiana Jones...umm, right?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
I see nothing wrong with this. While the bible stories does say a father and mother, this is true, changing it up once in a while is not a bad thing. And no, for anyone bleating that it would "be the same as saying a human and an animal!", it's not. For the first part, the two in question are BOTH human, not animals. And for two, humans and animals cannot bear young.
Now that being stated, my honest opinion on this is that if people are so upset by it, they simply don't have to visit that nativity scene. This priest is trying to show LGBTQ+ individuals that they are still welcome. That they are still viewed as humans, of value and worth. That they are not "evil" and are not "condemned", but loved.
Problem nowdays is how MANY people are so filled with hatred, that anyone considered "different", esp. LGBTQ+ individuals, are viewed as not even human. And when you view a person as not even being human, it makes it easier to do horrific things to them. And that is likely the most heartbreaking thing of all.
Well, no, there is one thing even more so. The fact that many people use their religion to justify pure, unadulterated, hatred. Saying that they will be "rewarded" for such behavior, and it is what "Jesus would do", when that is 100% untrue. He would've opened his arms and embraced them with warmth and welcomed them. Way too many use their bibles to excuse hate and violence, without even knowing what is IN those pages.
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Rev. Michael Gerraghty II
" If the church does not evolve with the times it will become irrelevant and cease to exist" -- Anton LaVey ,Church of Satan.
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Mark Hannon
I was thinking, wasn't Joseph a fake sperm donor?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
They often say a "Virgin Birth" but while some, though insanely rare that it is, have gotten pregnant without being touched, it's almost always a female that is born, due to DNA. That being said, virgin in the context of back then usually meant "Quite young".
In our parlance, it's basically likely that Mary was a very young teen when she got pregnant.
But it is likely she was pregnant when the two got married, but she didn't tell him, and the family may've already been a fairly prominent one, so they simply told him "God did it"
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XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nah. Mary got knocked up and there was no Jerry Springer and DNA testing back then so poor Joe had to raise the basterd kid. Sorry but Gods don't come to earth and screw earth gals and make babies, guys. That's called paganism.
And the Hebrew test doesn't say "virgin". It says "young woman". King Henry just thought "virgin" added some cool mystical jazz to this book he ordered his bishops to print.
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Lionheart
I always felt sorry for Joseph in that fable. There he is in front of his friends with his supposed virginal wife about to give birth. Ouch!!! Between them, they concoct this story that presumably no one will believe. They pay for a rent-a-crowd, comprising of some Magi, bearing gifts, and what do you know, everyone falls for it. Phew! They dodged a huge bullet there, and better still, they got away with it. Then, all goes quiet for a few years. Weird……right? Wouldn’t you think that boy would have been a great hit at school, and in his neighborhood, with his background history of his dad being God? You’d think all the local historians would be following him throughout his infancy and childhood and writing about him, but, no. Very little info…….for many years. No local historians writing about this boy wonder. No stories of boys bullying him, or pulling his leg for his claim that his dad was God. Perhaps no one told him about his dad was God until he was older. 🤷🏼
I can guarantee that J.K. Rowling wouldn’t have left out his growing up years if she had authored that book. He would have been the local Jewish, Harry Potter, in her book, doing magical mystery things like turning wine into water, or soda, with the stroke of his hands for all the local Muggles. 🤭
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Rev Mark D
Yes it's pretty much the ultimate in cuckholding.
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Rev Ned
The plastic Jesus is a sure-fire indicator of a Catholic thing.
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Karsten S. A. Johansson
Isn't Plastic Jesus a Yoko Ono album title?
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
The entire nativity-myth, is mythological; ergo, one might provide any possible rendition, of this myth, anyway one cares to do so — one only needs to be concerned about what the Holy Ghost thinks, because, according to my religious acquaintances, what the Holy Ghost thinks, is more to be concerned about, than the Christian God (only he too, is mythological)
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Russel A. Kester
Yes, the priest went too far. Don't change traditional Christmas songs, Like White Christmas, and don't change the nativity scene. Leave it as written in the New Testament and practiced by tradition as we know it today. Rewriting the nativity or the Bible to be more inclusive makes us loose too much in understanding them, the writers, and the times.
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Karsten S. A. Johansson
The nativity scene isn't ever presented as written in the Bible. Jesus was 2 years old when the wise men or kings or whatever they were brought gifts.
Also, they weren't Caucasian. Isn't it weird that the "3 kings of orient are" always presented as being white?
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Billy Heckstall
Unfortunately, he's done them a great disservice. No one wants to be made the elephant in the room. He’s also did the one thing that eliminates them from coming forward into a community with comfort. You cannot touch or reach people by putting them on display. Definitely, this will have the opposite effect that was desired. Hopefully, if there’s a next time. He might consider having a conference with those groups he wishes to help. Their suggestions, on how to approach any problem he may perceived them dealing with, maybe more ideal than anything he can contrive. How the church is affected by it, is not as important, as how the world is affected by it and especially, those he chooses to aid…
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Rev Mark D
I don't think it was the elephant in the room or a big mistake... The two big commandments from Jesus amounts to loving your God and loving your neighbor as yourself. What other qualification as to tribe race preference strength of weakness wealth or poverty, ignorance or wisdom, youth are maturity, are needed? That's inclusion and doing this Nativity the way he did it starts or reminds us re-stimulates that message and conversation.
Also the specific Nativity fits into a larger theme the pope has been driving for quite some time, and opening up and liberalization about lgbtq+, same sex marriage, etc, which fit in with a line of announcements and moves Pope Francis has been doing. This is in the exact same vein and furthers the larger effort by the Pope.
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Dr Asha Sharma
We are all of one species Human we have different Colors different sexual orientation and we practice religious beliefs. If we truly understand that there’s only one almighty omnipresent one known by many names and spread love kindness to all we will have a great universe peace peace peace
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Lionheart
Presumably, Dr. Asha, your doctorate isn’t in science, where logic, reason, critical thought, and demonstrable evidence, determines truth.
Human kind have always created imaginary omnipresent deities due to a lack of understanding and knowledge.
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Rev Mark D
Well lion, no, that isn't why, it's not from lack of knowledge your understanding... It's simpler, it's from a need to create them in the first place. We have great need of our fairy stories.
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Brien
We have a great need? The only need "we" have is the need to use fact based thinking when trying to make critical decisions. It's not that I mind yours or anyone's fairy-tale beliefs, I just want them kept out of reality, such as "let's go to war and kill in the name of, (insert deity here)". That is currently going on right now. But you are right, it's not from lack of knowledge, it is a refusal by zealots to accept knowledge. The belief doesn't matter as they all behave the same. Peace☮
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Rev Mark D
Sharmav you posit too many " ifs " to follow your premises with any discussion. As if you made no comment at all.
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Rev Mark D
What difference would it make really if Jesus was actually Susanna?
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Rev Mark D
If you want the Bible cover to cover without knowing what sex Jesus was, how would you know Jesus was a man or a woman?
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Karsten S. A. Johansson
The word "He" is used consistently in reference to Him. His name is a male name. Phrases like "being found in appearance as a man" and "only begotten son" make it pretty clear, too.
If you read the Bible cover to cover, you can't not know what sex Jesus was.
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Brien
Ok, someone took a myth, and made another myth out of it but used the same story line. My only question is are the mythical scriptures copyright protected? If so, then one could argue infringement of property. Of course the author(s) would have had to initiate the copyright, and then dictated representation of the works in question. Now I believe that all of you believers call your fantasy book, "The Word of God". Now, is your god willing to go to court and file for infringement? If not, then it doesn't matter what symbols or dolls are used, (I thought your god didn't like symbols or statues), the property is public. I am sure one of you hearty zealots will say this is wrong. My answer to you is this is a joke. ✌
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Rev. Rory
This seems silly, because if you are a believer, this depiction is not what is in the NT. However, if you believe in the immaculate conception, it would be possible. One priest in one place did this - not a big deal.
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ServantOfJudgement
Believing in immaculate conception is irrelevant. This is a case of altering biblical data to pacify the antichrists spawning from the Woke Hive Hatchery. The priest is not a priest of God that did this. According to the bible, the priest is one of Satan's.
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ServantOfJudgement
If you're a Christian then the lesbian scene is blasphemous by definition. If you're not a Christian then why would you care what Christians say of their own? Oh, I know why you'd care.
I thought Christians were supposed to worship their God and keep their mouth shut about it. Here we see the woke hive mind contradict itself, which it must do in order to exist.
Edict from the Woke Hive Mind: Christianity must keep to itself or suffer punishment. Contacting non Christian entities is strictly forbidden. Christianity must permit penetration by Woke Hive Mind Agencies or suffer punishment.
The Woke Hive Mind has spoken. The Hive loves you. Praise the Hive. Long live the Hive.
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Rev Mark D
SOJ, I think if you look the Pope fits into what you describe as the woke hive mind now. What does one do with that?
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ServantOfJudgement
You're right D, the pope definitely is of the hive. Departing from Catholicism is always an option. For an actual Christian, religion is not needed nor is a religious leader. No living thing can be or should be between Man and his maker.
Search for pictures of the Pope's throne room. Jesus is nowhere to be found. It's rather satanic if we're honest about it all.
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Karsten S. A. Johansson
John 14:6 in the Catholic Bible: Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Mary.
I've always had a problem with Catholics claiming Mary and other "saints" as the Intercessor, when Jesus made it clear that he is the only intercessor.
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David Lee Zutz
The priest mentioned here needs to Heed the Warnings in Revelations final Verses! Revelation 22:18 ESV I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, NIV I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. NASB I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; CSB I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book. NLT And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. KJV For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
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Karsten S. A. Johansson
Is it even relevant in the case of a virgin birth?
You could argue that at least at the time, she was (allegedly) asexual. Her partner, Joseph or Josephine played no role except to lead her to Bethlehem and help her raise Jesus throughout his childhood.
It really doesn't matter unless you believe Joseph was the father.
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XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
The same Catholic church that allows priests to sodomize little boys and then hides money offshore so they don't have to pay the boys they raped?
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RAYMOND BENITEZ
The Bible defines marriage in Genesis 2:24 as a union between one man and one woman. Jesus Christ upholds this definition of marriage in Matthew 19:5, as does the Apostle Paul in Ephesians 5:31. Any and all sexual activity which takes place outside of this context is treated as sinful, what Jesus calls ‘sexual immorality’ in Mark 7:21.
God's message to us hasn't changed since the beginning of time. It remains the same: Do not tamper with the Truth of God. Christ taught His disciples the importance of knowing, speaking, and defending the Truth because Jesus Himself is Truth incarnate.
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RAYMOND BENITEZ
When it comes to living according to God’s Word in our time now, there are many Christians who want to change or twist God’s Word to make it fit their life or culture. They say that some of the Biblical principles are outdated. For them it’s OK to have pre-marital sex, abortion is OK, even homosexuality and transgenderism seem to be OK for them. They say the Biblical principles need to be adapted to our modern society and even Jesus would accept this. Some people say the Bible was mistranslated and contains errors. Other people say that some topics are not mentioned in the Bible and if they are not mentioned, then we should deal with them on our own. Shameful.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
It’s like having two comic ‘enthusiasts’ arguing over whether Superman with blonde hair is ‘wrong’.
I don’t really care what the Catholic Church thinks is blasphemous.
They have no credibility with their history of preaching hate from the pulpit while hiding the priests that committed atrocities against children.