pregnant woman getting fired at work
"You'd better hope that baby was immaculately conceived, or else you're fired."

General incompetence, distrust, not a good fit… there are many legitimate reasons an employer might let you go. Should having sex out of wedlock be one of them?

That question is at the heart of a recent case featuring an evangelical CEO, an employee code of conduct demanding “righteous living” of its employees, and a woman who just wants her job back.

It's the latest incident to revive a debate over religious views in the workplace and their effect on women. 

You're Fired!

Administrative assistant Caitlin O’Connor got a surprise last June when she was fired from her company, Ramsey Solutions, after announcing she was pregnant. HR cited the fact that she wasn’t married to the father of her unborn child (the couple were longtime partners but hadn't tied the knot). O'Connor filed a lawsuit arguing she was wrongfully terminated. 

Dave Ramsey, the company's CEO and well-known personal finance guru, insists that he has the right to fire employees who don't behave in accordance with certain evangelic values – both at work and in their personal lives. And he stands by his decision to show unmarried pregnant women the door. 

The law is not so clear. The Pregnancy Discrimination Act, an amendment to Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, makes it illegal to discriminate on the basis of pregnancy or childbirth.

But Ramsey’s lawyers relied on a technicality: they argued that O’Connor wasn’t fired for getting pregnant, she was fired for having premarital sex.

Nor was she an outlier – court filings revealed that twelve other women have been fired by Ramsey Solutions for premarital sex in recent years.

Beware the Baby Bump

Cases like these are more common than you might think. 

In 2013 a woman named Teri James sued a Christian school after she was similarly fired for premarital sex (again, her employer found out when she became pregnant).

Back in 2011, a Catholic school district in Cincinnati fired Christa Dias for getting pregnant (while unmarried) via artificial insemination.

Even Senator Elizabeth Warren says she was fired early in her career for visible pregnancy. She recounted an experience early in her teaching career in a 2019 tweet:

Do Religious Rules Discriminate Against Women?

Many critics point out that bans on extramarital sex are clearly slanted against women. Why? Because they're the ones getting pregnant. 

"It is certainly going to be more obvious because of pregnancy,” stated Vanderbilt University law professor Jennifer Bennett Shinall. “It is going to be more obvious if a woman is engaging in premarital sex than men.” She pondered if companies scrutinize the sex lives of their male employees as much as their female ones.

It’s a tough egg to crack for the courts. Discriminating against pregnant women is illegal, but being an individual who has premarital sex is not a protected class.

Companies and organizations that require employees to abide by such religious values are betting on the fact that the courts will side with their reasoning that the women were fired for the sex, not the pregnancy. After all… the sex did technically come first.

Where do you stand? Do religious employers have the right to fire pregnant, unmarried women for engaging in premarital sex, or is the whole concept inherently discriminatory towards women?

62 comments

  1. Linda weeks's Avatar Linda weeks

    since women are the ones who can exhibit the proof of sex, (getting pregnant), they are the ones who experience the discrimination
    I suspect that few of the men in this organization hold to this strict moral code. Usually it is the men who most vocally demand chastity that are caught at 2am in a seedy hotel with a hooker. People have been having sex since the beginning of time. Can we stop being blatantly hypocritical about it. It’s no one else’s business!

    1. Teresa Jane Shearer's Avatar Teresa Jane Shearer

      Absolutely, What about masterbation and all the men that are participating in that activity? I would bet there isn’t one man in that company that isn’t participating or has participated in pre-marital sex. Plus an employer has no right to control an employees personal choices when off the clock.

      1. Lionheart's Avatar Lionheart

        I’m trying my best to understand your logic here by referencing men who masturbate. Is there a reason you left out women who masturbate?

        🦁❤️

    2. Robert A Stiff's Avatar Robert A Stiff

      AMEN! Sexual discrimination against women is as old as civilization despite the fact that it takes two to tango. A woman's sexuality, in all its manifestations, belongs to the woman and no one else.

    3. Michael Allen Smith's Avatar Michael Allen Smith

      Ramsey recently fired his top exec for teen finances for the same offense so no hypocrisy there.

  1. Linda weeks's Avatar Linda weeks

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  1. Rev. Howard Slayton's Avatar Rev. Howard Slayton

    When people clock out and go home, the company no longer has control over their activities. It’s none of their business what they write on their Facebook page or anything! Employees are not slaves.

    1. Minister Carlos Ricardo Walls's Avatar Minister Carlos Ricardo Walls

      Amen.However bosses do try to control your life even off the job.

  1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

    When have Christians ever been moral when it comes to women? The Bible tells us Man was created first and Women was created from one of man's ribs. God got that wrong. We all start life as females. Males are made from women due to male hormones.

  1. Kandis Marie Snaith's Avatar Kandis Marie Snaith

    This may be an unpopular opinion, but I didn't become a minister to win popularity contests so here goes;

    First off, I think the question should be did she know that this was an inexcusable act in her work establishment? It's easy to talk about equitable rights whilst talking out of both sides of your mouth, without realizing it. She certainly has her right to have her child, or have sex, according to the Laws of the Government. But what about the l Laws in the Bible? Or HIS right to choose who he wants to work for him and represent his company?

    They all three have their place in life. First and foremost, the Bible preaches against fornication. It should not be in question what the Bible preaches, it's plainly written. Second, He should have the right to hold his employees to the standards and rules that he feels are important. Third, she should have the right to choose to have sex, or get pregnant out of wedlock. It's her body her choice.

    The true question her is Did she sign a contract to uphold certain morals and behaviors as considered by the company owner? Was she aware that this was a stipulation of her continued employment? Or did she just choose to ignore the rules of her employer? And if she did, why should he have to now change the validity of his morals?

    When you talk about women's rights, or men's rights, or Evangelical rights, the question is always WHO'S Rights are more important? We do not know all the facts in this case to have a positive answer one way or the other. We don't know mainly is did she know? Did she agree? when she was employed, and just did it anyway because "It's HER right"

    IN MY OPINION, Yes, we all have rights that we should uphold. But that doesn't mean we have the right to impose those rights on others.

    1. Linda Salavarria's Avatar Linda Salavarria

      Anyone gonna fire the father for HIS part in this equation?

      Do you see the lopsided logic in holding the woman solely responsible? What about HER freedom of religion? Regardless of any agreement she signed, she has a right to her own spiritual/religious beliefs. Restricting that in any way during hiring IS illegal. As others have said, this is a common evangelical tactic to "keep women in their place". THEIR religion is the only religion and gives them carte blanche to do what they want. Guess what, it goes both ways. This mindset is ridiculous, and hopefully illegal in this case.

    2. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

      The bible has no value to society, never has never will. Those who follow it are by and large enemies of society and civilization. Stories like this prove this truth time and time again.

    3. Janice Lee Thompson-Hinz's Avatar Janice Lee Thompson-Hinz

      If a woman is raped, becomes pregnant and continues the pregnancy, is she still fired from her job?

      1. Patricia Ann Wileman's Avatar Patricia Ann Wileman

        I can tell you’re not educated as a Christian. I’m not talking about the denomination of a church. A Christian does not believe in abortion however there are people who say they are but they’re not really Christians because it says in the Bible not kill babies.

        The answer would be no she would not be fired because she was raped and pregnant. But I can see you are missing a little bit of common sense because you don’t have the understanding of what it is to be a Christian. A Christian is one who has a personal relationship with the Lord and tries to live their best at what the Bible says. Not saying people don’t make mistakes.

        However I’m sure when she took this job that she understood the company left by a little higher standard. Didn’t matter if you were male or female they did have standards. If she wanted to live like every one of the world jumping in and out of bed with every Tom Dick and Harry. Then she wasn’t representing the company. They want to people to be married and live in upstanding life to represent your company. Not saying that people in the company or running the company were 100% perfect but they did have standards and she knew with those standards were.

        She could’ve got a job any place they did not care about standards of her sexual life. Or being promiscuous taking drugs or whatever. No I am not condoning any of these things and I’m not approving for someone to do these things. But I’m not going to judge the person who is not saved doing this. However if somebody does say they’re saved you’re not representing the Lord or the company that they said they would work by their standards.

        So you’re dumb question is if she was raped no they would not of fired her.

        1. Janice Lee Thompson-Hinz's Avatar Janice Lee Thompson-Hinz

          One is only a true Christian in their treatment of others.. enough said.

  1. Minister Mike's Avatar Minister Mike

    Of course religious rules discriminate against women. What dolt wrote that heading? Seriously, how else will men keep women in line if not religion? Certainly no one believes men can come up with logical and sensible arguments to accomplish what "god" has done to women.

    Is premarital sex illegal in that jurisdiction? Even if it is, is it a misdemeanor or felony and does the employment contract specify an employee can be fired for doing it or must they be convicted in court?

    Just another rich white dude pretending to be better than everyone else.

  1. Linda weeks's Avatar Linda weeks

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  1. Linda weeks's Avatar Linda weeks

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  1. Linda weeks's Avatar Linda weeks

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  1. Linda weeks's Avatar Linda weeks

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  1. Erika Suzannah Avery's Avatar Erika Suzannah Avery

    This is why many run from religion. I think we are all one, and each religion (providing it does not cause harm to anyone) is simply another aspect of the divine force, the true God. I believe everyone wants compassion, understanding, and acceptance. I see so many hypocrites, preaching moral values then breaking commandments and doing horrible things. I guess if you're a narcissist the rules don't apply to you. Remember "Let he who be without sin cast the first stone?"

  1. Elizabeth's Avatar Elizabeth

    So men are feeling the pressure of women taking over so they are turning to creating personal ethics from 8-5. At 5:01 they are on the phone ordering an escort then on the phone telling the wife they have a late meeting. The money they save on health insurance they apply to their pornography, or their young person on the side. They should be worried about their last breath on earth. God is everywhere!!!

  1. Kenneth John Bickley's Avatar Kenneth John Bickley

    Sounds like a contractual dispute to me. Why did the lady agree to that term of her employment if she did not agree with those values? Presumably she is a mentally competent individual, of adult age and can read. She is not a child and should not be treated as though she were one. She does not need 'protection' from anyone, especially a male chauvinist society and its courts. Freedom of contract should apply to her situation. No one forced her to agree to those terms and every day she reported to work she ratified the terms of her employment. She should have notified her employer if she had changed her views and accordingly could not abide by the terms of the agreement.

    If she choses to accept certain beliefs, be they something she thinks is in the 'Bible', 'evangelical' or whatever, that is up to her and no one should be judging her or rescuing her from them because you or I disagree with them. That is called freedom of religion.

    It could be that the laws of her State may find the contractual term unenforceable but even then, she would not be entitled to much in damages. At best the employer would be forced to hold her job open but why would she want to go back to work there? Sounds to me as though she will settle and get some money. A normal legal tactic.

  1. Christopher S Whittle's Avatar Christopher S Whittle

    Why do these evangelicals think they should (with Mark hamill's joker's voice) "rule the world!" It is entirely sickening to read that this happens to women. Ladies adu.

  1. Russell Allen Foszcz's Avatar Russell Allen Foszcz

    Was just about to post the same as Linda Weeks - “are the men subjected to the same restrictions?” - but you covered it eloquently. Just another example of blatant sexism.

  1. Michael Allen Smith's Avatar Michael Allen Smith

    Dave Ramsey has a steadfast rule of no pre-marital sex. It’s his company his rules. Pregnant or not she broke the rules. But to show he doesn’t discriminate he also fired his top executive in charge of teen finances. This man was great at his job but he broke the rules and was fired. Rules are rules. Follow them and all is well. Break them and get the consequences. It’s pretty simple. The author needs to refrain from turning this into anything other than it is. She broke a rule she knew about and paid the consequence. I spoke with someone high up in the company and all employees are schooled on the rules during new hire orientation. If she wanted to mess around she should have chosen a different company. Kudos to Ramsey for sticking to his principles. Maybe more of us should follow the example.

  1. Devon LaBelle's Avatar Devon LaBelle

    Something to consider:

    If the employees spiritual and religious beliefs do not require them to abstain from pre-marital sex, would an employer enforcing evangelical principles upon them be in violation of the employees rights to exercise the free rights of their own religion?

    If that follows, ruling with the employer would be asserting that the employer’s religion supersedes the individual’s rights. Which seems to be in direct conflict with the individual’s right to exercise their own religion.

    I do understand that the law is to prevent government from establishing a National religion or from persecuting individuals based on their religious beliefs. A ruling in favor of the employer (Evangelical in this case) would privilege one religion over another.

  1. Thom's Avatar Thom

    Should we bring our personal morals and ethics into a work place? Should would be the judge and jury in situations like this? I noticed no outcomes were posted because I am sure they were all settled out of court. I employ people and if one of them became pregnant it is not for me to judge them because they may be single. I have friends who have been together for 25 plus years and are not married but they are as true to one another as any married couple I have met. So, who are we to judge?

    The key factor is, responsibility. Is the mother going to be a responsible parent? If so, then good for her. Is the father going to be a part of the child's life and is he going to be responsible? I damn well hope so. I would be more inclined to put pressure on the father who is not being responsible than a mother who becomes pregnant out of wedlock. If the mother is going to be responsible, as is the case in 99% of single mother situations, do you as an employer want to be responsible for someone losing their source of income because of what happened?

    My wife loves Call the Midwife on PBS (BBC) and it is a favorite of mine as well. In one show a woman who is a teacher becomes pregnant while having an affair with a married colleague. The teacher is fired and it ruins her life. She does a self abortion and it goes very wrong and she is forced to have a full hysterectomy before she was 30. In England she could have bene thrown in prison for doing a self abortion by the way. The school did not care what happened to her because they had to keep up their high standards, it was a public school by the way. Also, the father was not reprimanded in any way. He kept his position and not even mentioned. So, who was right in that situation? According to the show, which is based on a book, woman all over the area were having babies out of wedlock.

    Personally, I don't believe it is right for a woman to be fired for having a child out of wedlock but, she should be responsible and do what is right. I do believe the father's should be made to be responsible if they are not. Father's not being responsible, in my opinion, is more of a problem then woman getting pregnant.

  1. Douglas Robert Spindler's Avatar Douglas Robert Spindler

    When have Christians ever been moral when it comes to women? The Bible tells us Man was created first and Women was created from one of man's ribs. God got that wrong. We all start life as females. Males are made from women due to male hormones.

  1. Gail Dobson's Avatar Gail Dobson

    Of course they discriminate against women. It's how the men in power try to remain in power. It's in their book how women are worth less, how women should remain silent - both Old and New Testaments of the bible. Only women can get pregnant so only women have physical evidence of having sex. In that way it's legally discriminatory. Why a woman would want to be a member of such a group, or work for such a group has always been a mystery to me.

  1. Minister Carlos Ricardo Walls's Avatar Minister Carlos Ricardo Walls

    There's a time and place for everything.On a job,if caught you can get fired.Sex outside of marriage is fornication,is punishable by a higher authority.All of us should follow the Bible's teachings.Amen.

  1. Rebecca L Tice's Avatar Rebecca L Tice

    Oh... where have you people been? This has been going on forever. The reason women don't make the same money or hold the same positions as men is all based on the need of a woman to take time off to have a baby.

    Women didn't get the vote until 1920.... men have always been in charge while women have been assigned to dealing with the ring around the collars and or the ring around bathtubs.

    On top of that... this isn't a new problem.... in the fifties.... women who were stuck in abusive marriages had no recourse. Marriage was controlled by men.

    When I was 16 I graduated from high school and went to work at NSA at Fort Meade, MD. The first question I got once training was finished and I was "on the floor".... a man asked me "well little girl... are you going to be able to handle your burn bags".... which I should translate for you.... "can you carry your weight... physically". That same man was a daily terror.... because "women do not belong in the workforce".

    When I was a child.... we thought moms stayed home with babies..... when I was a teen.... I was taught.... women can work... but only in certain "non-essential" jobs... because women get pregnant.

    Wake up.... this isn't news.... it's just more of the same... up for discussion one more time.... on and on and on.... until we get to New Jerusalem.

    This is a link to my Bible Study this morning.... Revelation 21.... No need of a Temple....https://forums.somd.com/threads/no-need-for-a-temple.371028/

    Thank you for taking the time to read an old woman's reply.

  1. Ilmenheru Terikson's Avatar Ilmenheru Terikson

    And this is why Evangelicals in this nation are now being seen since the events in the Capitol as the U.S. equivalent of the taliban. They are not a part of our society but enemies of it seeking to tear it asunder so they may fill the power vaccuum.

    If you are the kind of person that thinks ANTIFA and BLM are bad, but the likes of those churches that preach the gospel of wealth nonsense and seek to enslave humanity are on the side of good, then you are beyond blind to true evil.

  1. Christian's Avatar Christian

    Reproduction is a constitutional right for all people: Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness.
    If that is what they wish to do.

    Also, medically, new mothers health is protected by various state & federal laws.

    The only exception would be when the type of work may put the mother or baby in serious risk of death or injury. Hopefully, the employer can make reasonable accomodations to protect both lives, light duty, office work instead of scrubbing out toxic chemicals, etc.

    Toxic jobs should be handled by remote operators or robotic automation. Why risk human life when we have technology ?

    Also, the entire world economy needs new babies. New babies grow into new customers and new employees.
    So the more citizens you can grow, the better. If that is your choice to do so...

    God Bless you all, and your spouse & children, grand children, and great grandchildren too ! :-)

  1. Daniel Gray's Avatar Daniel Gray

    can you be fired for becoming pregnant, the short answer is no, AS LONG a you are not an "at will" employee meaning that yo can be fired for any reason and at ant time. "at will" employees. What does that mean? It means your employer can fire you for any reason, for no reason, and even for a factually wrong reason (for example, that you were late one day, when you actually weren't). What your employer can't do is fire you for an illegal reason. Illegal reasons include race, gender, disability, and, you guessed it, pregnancy (among other things).

  1. Grahame Warren's Avatar Grahame Warren

    I have been reading the comments with interest - especially from those who say that this is a "Biblical Principle" or similar- and it seems to me that actually the Bible does not have a particular view about this subject because it was not considered to be important - in as much as the act of consummation and sexual union was in itself the act of "Marriage" - so, technically the first time a man and a woman come together in this act they "become one flesh" and therefore are married.

    Should this then continue as a relationship then theirs is one of "marriage" - this union then can move on to satisfy the civil requirements by becoming a legal wedding and being blessed by the church - but neither the legal nor the blessing can end their union - only death can do that (or divorce) and at one time, back in the days of the Old Testament, a man married a woman by sleeping with her and divorced her by simply saying "I divorce you" three times with a witness.

    So after the first act of sex with one person, all future acts are surely adultery or fornication since they are married at the first act.

    It seems to me that throughout time all these rules have been introduced by MEN to control other people both men and women but predominately, women.

    Far from wanting to get her job back, this young woman should be eternally grateful that she has escaped the clutches of this misogynistic control freak who does it all under the guise of "loving faith".

  1. Kevin Joseph Kervick's Avatar Kevin Joseph Kervick

    An employer should be able to fire anyone for whatever reason. The problem is that in a multi-cultural/secular society, nobody agrees on the same norms. That is not sustainable.

  1. Angelique D. Chelton's Avatar Angelique D. Chelton

    So much for being "prolife". Such harsh treatment absolutely encourages women to terminate their pregnancies so they can keep their livelihoods. What else is new with Evangelical double standards?

  1. James's Avatar James

    I think in emotionally charged scenarios, we miss the point. I see why religious companies hold to the standards of the products they sell. They have a certain clientele that they sell to, who expect them to hold to religious values.

    If the guy who got a job at the abortion clinic, protested the clinic in private, he would probably keep his job. Protest outside the clinic on days off, would he Keep his job?

    That is why the pregnant woman get's fired, she can't hide it. I would think if a man flaunted his conquests, in a religious company, he would be asked to leave.

    if this company found out this employee was a devil worshipper, and fired her, would you still fight her cause?

    Why does this woman want to work at a company who feels this way about her choices?

    Why is it ok to expect a company to change it's moral values, but we are outraged at expecting one person to change their's ?

    She chose to work there, knowing the rules. Broke the rules. Got fired for breaking the rules. ​

    I think all companies have the right to expect that people fall in line with a clearly written guide of expectations based on their own company morality and not a government enforced one.

    I think the free market and our culture at any given time will give rise and fall to these companies without government intervention.

    I think the company Is in the right here, based on the information in this article.

    The constitutional references aside; with freedom of religion, a church as a business, can legally discriminate against anyone:

    Any rule made about sex is inherently discriminatory against women.

    Companies have the right to expect employees to live within rules they agree to.

  1. James's Avatar James

    I think in emotionally charged scenarios, we miss the point. I see why religious companies hold to the standards of the products they sell. They have a certain clientele that they sell to, who expect them to hold to religious values.

    If the guy who got a job at the abortion clinic, protested the clinic in private, he would probably keep his job. Protest outside the clinic on days off, would he Keep his job?

    That is why the pregnant woman get's fired, she can't hide it. I would think if a man flaunted his conquests, in a religious company, he would be asked to leave.

    if this company found out this employee was a devil worshipper, and fired her, would you still fight her cause?

    Why does this woman want to work at a company who feels this way about her choices?

    Why is it ok to expect a company to change it's moral values, but we are outraged at expecting one person to change their's ?

    She chose to work there, knowing the rules. Broke the rules. Got fired for breaking the rules. ​

    I think all companies have the right to expect that people fall in line with a clearly written guide of expectations based on their own company morality and not a government enforced one.

    I think the free market and our culture at any given time will give rise and fall to these companies without government intervention.

    I think the company Is in the right here, based on the information in this article.

    The constitutional references aside; with freedom of religion, a church as a business, can legally discriminate against anyone:

    Any rule made about sex is inherently discriminatory against women.

    Companies have the right to expect employees to live within rules they agree to.

  1. Ms. Darcy's Avatar Ms. Darcy

    I personally believe whether you are married, not married, had pre-maritial sex, or didn't, If YOU are supposed to be teaching your religion, and trying to get people to follow you, shouldn't you show #1 Compassion, and #2 Forgiveness ??? If you cannot show either one of those traits, then I for one would NOT have any desire to follow you no matter WHAT your religion happens to be ...

  1. Amber Fry's Avatar Amber Fry

    Absolutely not. As long as they are able to do the job and doesn't reflect badly over all to the company then it shouldn't matter. A person's private life is not the concern of a boss. Of course everyone has health related issues at some time or another and should be taken into consideration but as long as it's reasonable (and women getting pregnant is reasonable) then it shouldn't be a deal breaker. It isn't like there is no such thing as a temp service to cover their shift while they take care of their health.

    I find it incredibly strange that any company who requires people to function doesn't seem to give a flying flip when those people actually might, just maybe, need to have their health managed some time or another. Our country (The States) is behind the times in this respect.

    1. Patricia Ann Wileman's Avatar Patricia Ann Wileman

      When you go to work for a company you represent them and their values. And if your hormones that run your life is more important than your reputation and the company‘s reputation don’t go to work there.

      This has nothing to do with abortion that has to do with ethics that a lot of people are missing these days. Besides doesn’t anyone know about birth control these days. Abortion is not birth control but I also recommend why don’t you get married before you have sex.

  1. JT of the plains's Avatar JT of the plains

    So the end result is that Dave Ramsey's policies are encouraging abortions. Yuck.

    1. Patricia Ann Wileman's Avatar Patricia Ann Wileman

      So you think abortion is the proper birth control. I got married at 16 my mom said are you pregnant I said no she put me on a pill two weeks before getting married. I finished high school with my class I didn’t have my son till one month prior to turning 21 by choice.

      If I could take care of things 56 years ago without having abortions and deciding the time I want to get pregnant of course I was married by the way. Why is everything abortion for birth control. And the best thing is she understood the requirements of the job. And she didn’t respect yourself enough to say no to her hormones or real birth control and now she doesn’t have a job.

      When you send the paperwork when you go to work you have an understanding then again a lot of young people are pretty stupid these days. I kind of think you’re falling in that category

      1. Robert A Stiff's Avatar Robert A Stiff

        Your letter makes no sense.

  1. Matthew Mastrogiovanni's Avatar Matthew Mastrogiovanni

    See, all this judge not, lest ye be judged and love your neighbor like yourself is all horse fodder. If you're not an upstanding, Christian CIS male, a pedophile priest or The Donald; you're screwed by this religion. Christianity is a hate group and it's time to declare it thus.

    1. Patricia Ann Wileman's Avatar Patricia Ann Wileman

      I can see you have no ethics. You can do anything because the body is just and I can’t use the words a piece of meat.

      What he was trying to do with his ethics is sex between a husband and wife. And you wanna blame pedophile priests as far as I’m concerned should be locked up. But may be forgiven but put them in a convent for the night around kids are people that I would be forgiving it but not to put them back around people. So I’m not talking about religion I’m talking about relationship with the Lord. You’re talking about you can go do anything you want screw anything you want to steal anything you want set fire and everything you want and that is what the generation is doing today.

      I’m sorry I just had to blend it out because you don’t have ethics of right and wrong. Don’t say you’re a Christian believing in the Lord and jump in bed with the opposite sex same sex whatever sex. I don’t care it says one woman one man married.

      Where is the man why didn’t he respect her enough to marry her before having sex. I’ll tell you where he’s at with no respect and use her as a piece of meat. And she thought it was OK that is what Ramsey is trying to teach young and old it’s inappropriate. And now this woman will have a child to bring up and good luck at collecting child support from this has been met love and whatever kind of a person they got her pregnant. Because if he was a real man he would’ve married her and then had sex.

      1. Matthew Mastrogiovanni's Avatar Matthew Mastrogiovanni

        Patricia Ann Wileman Praise the Gods, I'm not a Christian. I'm a witch, and no, I'm not Satanic. That's part of Christianity, not paganism.

        You proved my point. Jesus said, " Judge not lest you be judged," and there you are judging me, as well as Caitlin O’Connor. You're a hypocrite.

        The church allows pedophile priests. It even hides them. They should be executed for their crimes. But no, you think these MEN should be forgiven - where's your forgiveness for this pregnant WOMAN? You're not only a hypocrite, you're sexist. There is no law, that says you need to be a virgin till you're married. Your dominating God demands that, but it's not a law.

        Ramsey isn't her teacher, he's her boss and he wrongfully fired her.

        Stop living in the dark ages. We no longer need to be married to have children.

        Sex between two (or more) consenting adults, is not a crime. Sex is a gift, that should be celebrated.

        As for your comment of "to steal anything you want set fire and everything you want and that is what the generation is doing today." It's not only gibberish, but wholly wrong. I never said any such thing.

        Get thee to a convent Patricia. Maybe from there, you can learn to mind your own business and let God be the judge of people.

  1. Patricia Ann Wileman's Avatar Patricia Ann Wileman

    If the rules are in writing when they get hired then yes you need to No there is consequences.

    She should’ve thought about maybe being married before she got pregnant. I’m not saying I’m judging the person that they’re a really bad person but there is consequences when you know these are the rules and you sign a paper saying you will obey. Otherwise I said I don’t take that job. Go get a job with a company that doesn’t care about ethics or a mature person they hire.

    It’s like a gay couple going to a Christian text shop saying you have to make my cake no they don’t. Go to a cake shop that’s Muslim and see what happens. However they never do that they just want to go after Christians. The gay couple could make a choice to go to a cake shop that doesn’t have a Christian ethics and not do anything they want.

    But we all have choices and stop this crap. Understand if you have no ethics about your body and you can let your hormones run your life don’t go to work at those places. Or you better take some birth control one of the two.

  1. Patricia Ann Wileman's Avatar Patricia Ann Wileman

    If the rules are in writing when they get hired then yes you need to No there is consequences.

    She should’ve thought about maybe being married before she got pregnant. I’m not saying I’m judging the person that they’re a really bad person but there is consequences when you know these are the rules and you sign a paper saying you will obey. Otherwise I said I don’t take that job. Go get a job with a company that doesn’t care about ethics or a mature person they hire.

    It’s like a gay couple going to a Christian text shop saying you have to make my cake no they don’t. Go to a cake shop that’s Muslim and see what happens. However they never do that they just want to go after Christians. The gay couple could make a choice to go to a cake shop that doesn’t have a Christian ethics and not do anything they want.

    But we all have choices and stop this crap. Understand if you have no ethics about your body and you can let your hormones run your life don’t go to work at those places. Or you better take some birth control one of the two.

  1. Allen Haas's Avatar Allen Haas

    Laws are only attempts to maintain social order based on what elected officials perceive as standards for acceptable and unacceptable behavior by human beings. In most states fired for cause simply defines the what a person is entitled to by law in terms of unemployment compensation. Been fired twice in my life and no necessity for stating a reason as unemployment compensation was not contested. I don't think any person should be terminated for behavior outside their scope of employment which is not illegal. Certainly legitimate to terminate employment when such activities interfere with the employees performance or its public persona. Sexual activity without a religious sanction or civil legalization of the contract is not sufficient in my opinion to warrant dismissal. Opening Pandora's box like this would allow an employee to be publicly vilified for any action the employer deems 'sinful' - do they keep Holy the Sabbath Day (and what is the Sabbath day?), Do they honor their mother and father? Do they covet their neighbor's spouse or goods? Lie? All considered sinful in the Judaeo Christian beliefs of many people. Other religions have different behavior considered sinful - strict Muslims do not allow the consumption of alcohol. And I object to the classification as 'evangalical' I certainly identify myself as evangelical but I have no book of beliefs which circumscribes that belief. Can't say I've ever met anyone with whom I completely agree on belief and anyone who says they have is deceiving themselves.

  1. John P Maher's Avatar John P Maher

    IGNORANCE IS BLISS, PEA BRAINED EMPLOYERS !

  1. David Ciambrone's Avatar David Ciambrone

    I hope she wins the law suit.

  1. Linda Salavarria's Avatar Linda Salavarria

    I work in financial literacy education. I have students who ask about Dave Ramsey and his philosophies. I will never discuss him again when I speak to students. This case can go under the "religious persecution" category, since the employee's religious affiliation may not have such strict adherence on premarital sex and to fire her can be considered persecuting her based on HIS religious beliefs to the discrimination of hers. She needs a good lawyer!

    1. Patricia Ann Wileman's Avatar Patricia Ann Wileman

      This is what’s wrong with people like you. Do you think it’s OK for young people were of all ages for that matter to jump in bed not being married and now they’re stuck with a baby and the man/male moves onto the next woman. He has standards and that is what he’s teaching the young people.

      But your standards are it’s OK just !!! every woman because she has right right to have sexual relationships with anything or anyone and that’s where you’re wrong. That is what’s happening that’s incorrect in our world today.

      So you technically come onto a so-called Christian site and think it’s OK if you’re real Christian to jump in bed I’ve sexual nations without being married. Take the time to read the Bible. I’m not talking about denomination I’m talking about a one on one relationship with the Lord. And try try to leave your best by what the word of God says which is the Bible.

      In the old testament they were really cruel to the woman who jumped in bed unmarried. I think it was a little bit serious there in the lower did say whoever hasn’t sin throw the first stone. However he also told her to go away and not do it again.

  1. William Vasiliou's Avatar William Vasiliou

    Minister William, I was under the impression that the dark ages and the inquisition were over. This couple, although not legally married have been living together for some time. This should count. If her employer was as evangelical as stated his company should not have hired her in the first place, as it would appear she was living with a man before being hired. I have had first hand experience with religious bigotry and the problems women face. Decades back when my wife was expecting our first son the parents at her school terminated he contract because they did not want their children exposed to an educator in that condition. This despite some parents being in a similar state. It has not stopped since.

  1. Donna Christ's Avatar Donna Christ

    Shouldn't the guy get fired for getting the woman pregnant. Equal time for the crime!!!

  1. Donna Christ's Avatar Donna Christ

    Shouldn't the man get fired also ,equal time for the " crime"

  1. Rev. Jack Harte, DD, MscD's Avatar Rev. Jack Harte, DD, MscD

    Don't work for that company. You have the legal right to have sex with whomever you choose. A company should have the option to choose employees who follow its philosophies.

  1. Richard Lee Cornell's Avatar Richard Lee Cornell

    It is in the handbook.

  1. John R Ruland's Avatar John R Ruland

    we have to learn to seperate earthly things from spiritual things and what is of this world does not mean anything. we have to teach spiritual things not eathly things like what our bodies do. our mind, body, has nothing to do with spritual things at all. so hire her back and only teach spiritual things. it is like teaching what Jesus did not what he taught. it seems you are teaching what Jesus did and where he went instead of what he taught. teach what he taught love one another and teach salvation not things of this world. Minister John Ruland

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