A group of largely black clergy are formally asking the city of Boston to pay $15 billion to black activist groups, churches, and residents to “atone” for the city’s role in the slave trade.
The Boston People's Reparations Commission, a grassroots organization of activists and clergy dedicated to seeking reparations for black Bostonians, is behind the request. They say that the city’s white churches must also shoulder some of the debt, arguing that they profited off of slave labor, and are now asking them to invest some of the wealth gained off of the backs of slaves into Boston’s black community.
Should the city pay reparations to black residents to fix the sins of the past? Do white churches owe a debt to their black neighbors?
A Painful Legacy
"It is impossible to put any dollar number on what African Americans have gone through in this country," said Edwin Sumpter of the Boston People's Reparations Commission. The amount of money owed, he said, is “incalculable.”
Members of the commission argue that white Bostonians have long benefited from the city’s role in the trans-Atlantic slave trade, and are now calling on churches to help right the wrongs of the past with reparations.
Churches, they assert, were some of the biggest early beneficiaries of slavery in the 17th and 18th centuries.
"All of our colonial churches were founded on the profits of slavery," argues Rev. John Gibbons. "Colonial ministers were among the most likely to have enslaved servants."
Commission funder Rev. Kevin Peterson cosigned that argument, adding that "any of the well-known white churches in downtown Boston are connected to the slave trade and the proliferation of what was a 'slavetocracy' in our city."
He argues that those churches were built upon slave labor, the repercussions of that exploitation still ringing through the community to this day. And now it’s time for them to “pay up.”
"We point to [white churches] in Christian love to publicly atone for the sins of slavery, and we ask them to publicly commit to a process of reparations where they will extend their great wealth — tens of millions of dollars among some of those churches — into the Black community."
Should Reparative Justice Be Taken?
This isn’t the first time faith leaders have called for reparations. Just last year, a group of interfaith Philadelphia clergy met up to discuss how to implement reparations in their community.
And in 2022, Boston became the first major city to formally apologize to the black community for their city’s role in the trans-Atlantic slave trade by offering their “deepest and most sincere apology" for their role in benefitting from and propagating the slave trade, and agreeing they were “complicit” in innumerable crimes committed against enslaved Africans.
Though the city made the apology, no additional steps towards what the commission calls “reparative justice” were taken.
The question remains: will Boston’s white clergy agree to paying off this moral debt with billions of dollars? And, should they?
There is a strong contingent of Christians agree that paying reparations to African-Americans is a moral imperative – but many others believe that reparations is a deeply complicated project that risks stoking divisions rather than help heal the wounds of the past.
What do you think? Should reparations be implemented in Boston – and beyond? If so, what is a fair price tag?
178 comments
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Rev. MichaelRS
"There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles the wrongs and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settle habit of advertising those wrongs partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs."
~ Booker T. Washington~ 1911
Fast forward to the Marxist BLM founders/leaders and their multimillion dollar mansions in neighborhoods that are 98% white.
The problem with reparations, at least when it comes to handing people checks, is that they are indeed, has said in the article, incalculable. Who gets how much and based on what?
It really cracks me up when I hear people like Joy Reid on CNN talking about reparations when both her parents are from African countries who immigrated to the evil United States.
And if you want to talk about the evils of reparations when it comes to the Atlantic slave trade you're going to have to hunt down countries that have tribes in them that help the white man with the slave trade.
Do you think that the slave ships showed up in Africa with large enough crews to go into the jungles of Africa and capture hundreds of black people? Hardly.
And I'm sure many of you heard how when the white man came to North America the native population was devastated by diseases that the white man brought, not on purpose, that the Native Americans had no immunity to because they've never seen it before.
It was the same thing, only in reverse, in Africa. White men going into those jungles were expected to survive only months in many cases weeks before they succumb to diseases that were native to that part of the world. So how do you get by all those problems?
You enlist the help of other African tribes to go capture their brother and sister blacks.
There is no way the Atlantic slave trade could have been as large as it was if it was not for black people in Africa helping capture other blacks.
The slave ships would show up and they're sitting on the shore Shackled or in cages would be a boatload of black people, having, been captured by other black people, waiting to be loaded on the ships.
There might have been some of the activity in a limited fashion, but for the most part white men were not chasing black people through the jungles of Africa to capture them.
Also, with affirmative action and DEI programs reparations are already underway and have been for some time. Most colleges and universities including the prestigious ones allow a significant number of black people entry who are far less academically qualified than their Asian or white counterparts.
No, this reparations thing is just another an excuse to not accept individual responsibility for one's own life. Great great great granddad being a slave has nothing to do with you skipping school, wearing your pants below your ass and hanging out with the boys smoking weed rather than staying in class and studying to get decent grades and get into a college because you actually qualified to be there academically.
Or better yet go to a trade school to learn Plumbing or air conditioning or something like that. Most of those guys make more money in their first year than do any college grads
This is the the whole Marxist oppressed/oppressor narrative at work where the Democrat Party has conditioned black people to suck on the tit of the government you can then guide their lives rather being individuals in control of their own lives.
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Russel A. Kester
Michael, great quote and insightful analysis. Thank you!
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Billy Heckstall
I can assure you this individual knows not once class of colored people anywhere. It just the simple rhetorical response you get from most unenlightened individuals who get their information from others with no personal experience. Especially, when it feeds their preconceived and one side opinion. I challenge everyone with a negative view on this issue (about these Boston church’s dilemmas) to name one so-called colored group, church or neighborhood; that they have lived in and are actively engaging the so-called colored people. The fact that the term ‘colored’ was used tells you just how much this individual has had contact with anyone in a while, wow! Wake up!
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Russel A. Kester
Billy, you couldn't defeat Michael's remarks so you tried to attack him as a person to discredit him. That's not an argument, it's a logical fallacy. I agreed with what he said. I have a black sister, I've been in romantic relationships with black men, and I've had numerous black roommates both male and female from America and Nigeria. Do you want to try to tell me I've never had any contact with black people? I've heard many blacks refer to themselves as a person of color. To quibble over the term is silly. You seem so ready to be offended and to attack others. Why?
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Billy Heckstall
Aren’t you doing that right now! But, apparently it’s okay for you to address me. And I wasn’t attacking anyone, but I was standing up for what I believe in. Just as you seem to be doing here. However, I have no ideas about what you mean I couldn’t defeat this person. Because, that was never my intention. And to keep things straight what does your nationality or whom you’ve known has anything to do with my experiences as an American citizen? If you read his comments to me thoroughly, you might find that he has the problem. I’m not attacking any issues involving his race. But, he certainly is concerned about others. Thanks for defending his position. I well, understand your position. You’ve hung out with a few folks so like always you know us all. There are those of my persuasion that know any better. So, that doesn’t negate anything I’ve said on that subject. Besides, I’ve noticed you speak as if you were raised in the ghettos of so-called black America. I was born there, how about you? I’ve lived, work with and had a number of relationships myself with a number of so-called whites. But, I still can tell you how it is to live with those privileges. Nor would I care to know! And since you agree with this fellow that closes this discussion anyway. If he was doing so well! I don’t know why you felt the need to get involve anyway; except the obvious.
Byee…
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Russel A. Kester
Billy, you did attack Michael win you stated that he didn't know any black people and that his comments were just rhetoric of an unenlightened person. Those are personal attacks. I attacked your argument or you're thinking by showing that it was an ad hominem attack and not an attack on the actual argument Michael had presented. But now I see you continue to go on and equate being black with growing up in the ghetto. Is that true? Is a black person who grows up in a wealthy neighborhood no longer black. If that's the case, then exactly how are you defining black? You then proceeded to try to diminish my statements by saying that because I've known a few black people. What nonsense. I have not known only a few black persons. I have known many. And have had many black romantic partners. That's pretty common for the gay community. So again I'm not sure why you are taking the positions you take and attacking the person who makes an argument that is in opposition to your thoughts or positions. I look forward to the day when you make a post which presents an actual logical argument against that of another person or in favor of your position.
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Billy Heckstall
I won’t discuss that point with you anymore, because it seems you only are able to see that part of the conversation that feeds your discomforts. I did not say that living in a the slums of an African ghetto dictates whether your black or not. I think the attempt was to point out if you haven’t been in the water you cannot tell others how it is to be there. No more than you dating or sleeping with a multitude of Vietnam Veterans, can now tell me what my experiences are having served there. Especially , if you’ve never even seen the coastline. That is the only point I was making. Just as you sadly assumed I was attacking the other person. I was simple stating a fact, which he didn’t deny. That’s why, I wondered what your issue was? If you read all the many comments I left on this chat site. You’d problem get a better idea of my view point; that is, if that matters. As for the gay community camaraderie, I very familiar and have great admiration for public unity and the night life I have spent among my friends. Especially, after spending some the seventies and the eighties between the Art Student’s League and the Village in New York City. Trust me, I am a very well informed individual. But, I digress. The point I attempting to make is simple. That for all the free land given to Europeans in the free land grab of the 1800’s. There is not one so-called white American that shouted they didn’t deserve it. But, if so-black folks ask for one crumb from that same table it seems most of your so-called white Americans go out of their way to express their disgust for these people. Who are merely asking for what their people were in title to. It’s not money coming out of their personal pockets, but money that was promised before many of them were even in this country. They think of it as their inheritance and why should they. I don’t want your money. I trying to figure out why so many! Who never cry about the taxes cut they didn’t earn, go through such disarray when others ask for similar things that do have merit? It just seems that their concerns peak it when the attention is on the people they look down on. Whether it’s immigrants, gays, religious sets, or so-call red, brown and black communities. I just wonder why? No one is upset that America the land of freedom was still collecting funds from Britain for slaves up into this century. Where are their uproars about that? No! A small church ask for reparation and they begin to go into the history of slavery around the world and throughout history. One gentleman, went so far as to dig up the name of former so-called black slave owners in the south!🤣😅😂 My God!!! If nothing else the hypocrisy is the format for Shakespearean play with a splash of a little Satire of ghoulish gospel. What a joke! I still say, take a look in the mirror and ask yourself. Why does this subject trouble you so much? And whatever answer you get. Pray on it, and see if God answers…
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Lisa Miller
Oh, but then you also didn't mention that the majority of slaves brought to the US were from tribes that lost a war or battle against another tribe. Some of the slaves were even sold by their tribe to the slave traders. Very few were chased down in the jungles and caught.
The problem is no one on Earth now is directly related to a slave. No one living has had to be a slave.
But they all want the back pay that slaves would have earned if it was a real job (and if it was the year 2024 and wages were 20+ dollars an hour.) Why not give these greedy churches, activist groups, and outraged pretenders what they would have actually gotten? https://libraryguides.missouri.edu/pricesandwages/1800-1809
So 15-20 dollars a month is 240 dollars per year (this was in NY and included room and board) minus food which would have been about 5 dollars a month which would bring us down to 180 per year. Sadly, the average lifespan of an African slave (there were other races who were also slaves, but you only hear about the African ones) was 21 to 23 years old. So, we will assume for the sake of this argument that this person had been born into slavery. We will also say they died at 23 years old. The reparations for this person would only be 4,140 dollars.
If everyone said... No, and you get the money that would have been due to them. There would be a lot less people screaming for the money. Most of the money comes from the cities.
But outrage is fun because anyone can do or claim it. I could claim it. You could claim it. The Karen down the street could claim it.
I say... DNA testing is in order because many people who are screaming for the money have no skin in the game at all!
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Billy Heckstall
Countries in Europe are still, even to this day fighting to keep from being enslaved by other countries. But, that hasn’t nothing to do with America renege on the 40 acres and a mule; nor, the 300 peace treaties they broke with indigenous people of this land. You speak great deal of what you know little about… America has been getting reparation from British for slaves they freed after the war of 1776 until around 2010. But, I’ve noticed not one so-called white American protesting that! When you’re blind and ignorant to everything around you. It seems uninformed people always have a voice in the wrong direction; because they haven’t got a clue about reality, nor do they care. They just want to voice some thoughts from that dark place where they truly live. Enjoy!!!
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Mark Bales
America did not reneg, the former slaves receivewd their 40 acres and a mule, then proceeded to make so many babies that the land was hopelessly divided up into smaller and smaller plots. In other words, they made too many babies. I am NOT 'Feedin' While You Breedin'.
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Jeffrey Dale Tweedell
I identify as black so give me my money.god forgive us all
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Billy Heckstall
I pray you find God Somewhere between your bigotry, ignorance and rage In all your wisdom, have you ever stopped to ask, what would Jesus have me do? Bless you, I hope you find the Light…
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Rev. MichaelRS
Please explain what about my comments in the kids that I would be a bigot or that I am ignorant?
It is nonsensical for people who had no part in the sin of slavery to pay people that were not victims of it MANY generations after the fact.
And why do we only stop with the government of the United States of America. Should we not also look at American Indian tribes who would take defeated enemies as slaves? Should the descendants of the Comanches be Force to pay reparations to the descendants of the Apache?
And have you ever heard of the Iroquois Confederation? How do you think it got to be so large? Do you think they set out diplomats to all the neighboring tribes and convince them to hold the referendum to join the Iroquois? Well, if you do think that, you would be wrong.
Or maybe today's Romans/Italians need to pay reparations to the peoples of Germany, France, Britain and others more south, for conquering the areas of those countries that they did and enslaving the native people.
Oh and let's not forget the Egyptians. They had over 5,000 years, from 5000 BC to a little past 300 AD, of conquering and enslaving people.
That's just a fraction of the countries that had a habit of conquering and enslaving people as I haven't even touched on the Mayans and the Aztecs in the Americas or any of the countries in Asia (Hello Genghis Khan and the Mongols).
So no, other than what's already been going on through Affirmative Action and DEI programs reparations is simply nonsense. And those programs need to stop.
And please don't tell me about the poor black man and generations of lack of opportunity. You have refugees coming to this country from Asia and Cuba not knowing the language and with little more than the clothes on their back and within in two Generations they are right in the middle of the American middle class or higher.
The problem with the black community in America is not lack of opportunity it's a culture that doesn't reward it. Is a culture that when a child wants to get good grades in school and try to get into a call at the University he is told by his black friends "to stop acting White".
It's a culture that has gone from 20% a single mother households in the early 60s to over 70% today. Why because the progressive welfare state has rewarded that.
I very much doubt that Malcolm X and I would have ever been drinking buddies, but you have to give the man credit where credit is due. Go to YouTube and search "Malcolm X on white liberals" and you'll see what I mean.
But please, if you're going to engage in ad hominem attacks by calling somebody bigoted or ignorant, at least have the courtesy to explain what it is they said that is bigoted or what information did they give or not give that shows their ignorance.
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His Holiness Doctor C.
If it ever came to a fight, Rev. MichaelRS, I'd want you on my side!
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Billy Heckstall
Hello once again!
One of the things that is always common among those trapped for an explanation of their folly and so-called wisdom, is to always point to someone else’s situation. In some strange afford to compare two totally different events, in order to clarify a point of view they wish to win and sadly lose sight of their respective debate. Though sad, however ugly it seems always true. What about this country or that country? What about that time or that people? Sadly, they forget one factor! We’re not talking about any other condition or situation but the one that exists in this time and in this country, that has carried on for three hundred years. You want to swell up in the pride and glory of this country. But, when it’s debts come due, suddenly you’re no longer a gut loving American, but a what if, and what about, guy. Amazing! If this country had kept its promise, as Britain did with their freed slaves. There’d be no request for reparations. If this country hadn’t failed in keeping treaties and promises to the indigenous people of the country for centuries. This would indeed be a fair United States. If they had simply given the forty acres and a mule to the slaves they so-called freed. There’d be no call for reparations, for sure and I would even consider supporting your claim. Although, I don’t see why it would interest you. But, what happened to those commitments? They unfortunately, got trashed along with the people they were promised to, wake up! As for bigotry, it always seems they’re the last to know. I notice, there was no argument about the free land grabs, nor the monies given to countries that attempted to over throw this one. Nor, about the many countries we gave money to and still support reparations to this day, including Vietnam. They bill you tax payers for weapons they never use yearly; they give billions to countries that serve no more purpose than as our “friends “. But, let one so-call black person ask for any justice in this country; and it seems half the country of so called Christian Americans are up and armed. Against a people that have no time in history wage war against this Nation. Astonishing, isn’t it! You want to compare a life I’ve lived to the stats you read somewhere. I can tell you from my own experiences in those communities, which I grew up in; that most of the junk you think you know from books and newspapers are a lies. You’re like the person that never got in the water or even seen it. But go about telling everyone how warm the water is and how to swim. That is exactly what I meant, by ignorance. I’ve noticed also, you haven’t given any group or race of people that were dragged to this country in chains; that were later claimed not human but cargo. That when they attempt to raise up were burnt out, towns destroyed, families separated, denied education, their language, and even denied the rights to claim the rights they fought for, in your Constitution. Where in this country exists any people that match this comparison? Please, inquiring minds would love to know… Please dear person you don’t have a clue of personal experience of what you speak. You’re so busy, not being a bigot but attempting to be a wiseman; and wallowing in your self proclaimed misinformed ignorance. You cannot see the cracks in your cumbersome attempt at a debate. Until, you’ve walked a mile(as they say) in someone else shoes, be still. Perhaps, you need a one on one conversation with someone that has lived that life, rather than make assumptions you know nothing about except from second hand information. I am always here to help… Maybe, you should always consider that, just because you’ve heard a few accounts of a people’s existence. That reality might not have been the truth for the majority. A boat maybe lodged upon a rock in the ocean. One half underwater, the other high above the waves and dry. The passengers below the waterline cry for help while those above claim, what’s the problem? Everything seems fine to us. Sir, it’s nice to watch movies, and hear stories about combat in Vietnam. However, the experiences of each individual maybe different, but only those that serve there know it’s true reality, and you can’t get that from news papers, reporters or books. Trust me my friend! Check your heart and motives for how did you come by such concerns about this article…May God’s light guide you and keep you. Amen
P.S. Please forgive any typos I don’t proofread. Sorry…
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Mark Bales
They got their 40 acres and mules
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Barry Lee Lopatic
No disrespect to you, Billy.....There is a reason that our windshields are larger than our rear view mirrors! If you want to live your life driving by the rearview mirror, passing by the opportunities of life, making excuses based on times and customs which are in the past; you and anyone else are free to do so. SUCCESS has no skin color. The Universe chooses to bless those who are in tune with moving forward, and not letting circumstances that we were not party to, hold us back. I'm not minimilizing what happened here in our country, but all countries, all lands, all civilizatiions had policies and customs that took advantage of one person group or another. Mankind has been inhumane in his quest for POWER.
Unfortunately, we had that happen, but to be FREE, you need to let go. We all need to let go of something that hurt us so we can move on. All those other cultures that had issues in the past have moved on in some way and we need to do the same. Like one said above, too many American make their living stoking the fires of the past, and were it NOT for them, most Americans would be getting along better, loving each other better, sharing lifes awesomeness together....be it not for the religion of enslaving current believers in a hatred that should have been left go of!
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Billy Heckstall
Dear Sir There has been no disrespect from your comments, taken. I appreciate your wit, and your metaphor of the vehicle, that was most amusing. However, I drive a convertible; and the only time I put the top up, is when I’m disturbed by an unpleasant natural or unnatural phenomena occurring around, or upon me. But, It’s my front window glass that frustrates me, for it often gets dirty, blurred by sunlight, snow and rain. So it is often, I need to see what around and behind me, in order to get an I dear, of where I am in any situation. Because, the future as in most cases with people I’ve known is blind to me and I can’t see beyond the veil. But, the past is always clear and so is the present; and navigating life is far easier. When I have points of reference to guide me. If scholars are true when than claim history, as well as, man repeats himself. Then it is well, I look to the past in order to predict the future, “ For as go Spring, so comes the Simmer and their after the Fall..” Sir, I truly believe knowing one’s past is not hate teaching. But, a guard against repetition, “those who forget or doomed to repeat “. Also, what history has taught us is this, where there is retribution made. Rarely, does one meet replication of the same act. Just ask Germany, Japan and Italy. O’yeah by the way, all have and are receiving some form of reparations. Yet, not a word of discord comes from the so-called white American people, and they waged a war against them! As I’ve explained before. I have no dog in the fight of the churches of Boston. But, I do understand and sympathize with their reasoning. Even if I don’t agree, neither do I wish to be counted in on whatever booty they may or may not receive. I don’t want any coins from your country. Please understand that! But understand also, that I can comprehend why a person would want the inheritance of their father or mother’s families which is a debt that America owns them. What I don’t understand, is why people who have nothing to do with that debt (and many have claim so) are so upset and dead set against people that do have an invested interest in that debt? While I do give full respect to your comments, sir. Please believe me sir, I have no hate in my heart for any man at this moment. Forgiven the understanding I serve, I knows it would only cause me harm; and that understanding forbids such ignorance. So, my dear fellow. I do hope you win your discussion with those you think oppose your beliefs. As for me, I don’t think much will come of this. Man will never find peace among himself or within himself; without developing empathy for others. Which the comments of those in this chat circle clearly points out the absence their of. So, as in his past. History lays bare the truth of this and there in man’s review mirror as you put it, is without a doubt living proof of it… his eternal legacy.
Peace…
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Joe Bennett
@Rev. MichaelRS Thank you for explaining the issues so glibly. The they did it absolves us of our contribution is priceless. Perhaps, not all white people owned slaves, but I guarantee you all benefited from the institution. The labor of millions of Black Men, Women and Children created the bounty of the nation without any participation. Also, if you include the numbers of Black communities that were burned to the ground by angry white folk and the perpetuation of Jim Crow laws that continued the abuse for another 100 years. One of the most egregious deeds perpetrated on the Black community is the assessment of taxes to support white schools while preventing young black children from attending. To top that off, even after Black Men had participated in every war that the United States was a part of, being denied the benefits of that service when the GI benefits were only permitted for whites. It took the knowledge of slaves to provide crops to help the colonists to survive. The labor of Black people was stolen from 1619 through 1865. From the end of slavery much of the worth of Black labor was stolen by share cropping and under paying by employers. A good example of what happened to Black People before the 1960s is what happens to undocumented workers currently who are paid far less than their worth and often are robbed of their labor because there isn't a legal entity that will be sympathetic to their complaints.
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Rev. MichaelRS
Yes certain things were horrible in the past and many horrible people did those horrible things. I was not one of them and I don't believe I should have to pay for their sins.
MY only obligation is to not do those things myself.
Also if we're talking about reparations why aren't any of the black activists in the US contacting the governments of Nigeria and Angola and other Central African countries to demand reparations by saying,
"Look we know a number of the tribal people's in your country kidnapped a number of other tribal peoples to sell to the white man for the North Atlantic slave trade so we need you, as the current governments in those regions, to chip in on the reparations. Okay?"
Because the truth is the North Atlantic slave trade would have probably been 60 to 75% smaller if the white flavors did not have a great amount of help from black Africans... who had absolutely no problem selling their enemies to the white man.
Also, for a better perspective on this, search this video on YouTube...
"Bill Maher - a unified theory of wokeness"
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Mark Bales
They don't contact them because they know the Central African States would tell pound sand. (Get a real job) The US Needs to say the same.
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Linley Arlene Pickett
An opening has been made. Responsibility rests on an individual level. Of course the many dynamics, merits, affiliations, as well as opinions of particulars can be both argued and debated! This has been proven in previous comments. What can I contribute on an individual level for humanities good? This includes us all. The outcome is not mine to control. What is mine to control is where do I start, how can I help, an opportunity exists for me.
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ServantOfJudgement
Billy,
Jesus would something mind shatteringly brilliant to expose the foolishness and corruption of those expecting a people who didn't enslave anyone to pay money to a people who were never enslaved an amount of money they say will never be enough.
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Charles Heady
My great grandfather and his younger brother left their families to fight to free the slaves. one was shot and the other, 23 years old, died in the fight and his body was never returned home. Maybe I should ask for reparation.
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Billy Heckstall
The sad truth my friend is that the war which was supposedly to free slaves, was not about slavery at all, but political power. Even Lincoln is recorded as confessing to this fact. Perhaps, a little fact checking and a small journey into history might help. Everyone, speaks of slavery as if it’s over. My God, how long must we suffer such ignorance. The rich and shameless still pay for flesh to be trafficked across distant borders. Please, wake up! Men of God! Take your place!
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Rev. MichaelRS
Billy, it is true that a little fact-checking through history does help, so here you go;
While it is true that Mr Lincoln's goal was to preserve the Union and he did say that if he could do it by freeing all of the slaves or none of the slaves or some but not the others he would do whatever worked .
However, SLAVERY indeed was a major catalyst for the Civil War.
Yes the war was "fought to preserve the union", but why was the union splitting in the first place? Here's a hint, Slavery was not a minor or secondary issue.
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Billy Heckstall
Please check farther my friend
You will find that political power, was the main root for the slave owning states and free states surrounding even the idea of freeing slaves. Especially, when it came to voting power, like population per state. (Which turn people into 1/5 of a human being) But, let us digress no farther. Let’s bring this conversation back to where it started. It is only the so-called black churches of Boston that are requesting that the so-called white churches of Boston give them reparation. Now, whatever reasons they had for making such a request. I assure you, I don’t know. But in an act of good reasoning, it might aid us both to find out, the why. For it seems, mostly everyone in this chat is responding to this topic as if it’s a nation wide request, rather than a local one. These discussions alone will not tumble this nation, nor my faith in the good nature of human beings, made in the image of God. But it has revealed one thing, and that is simply this, that the aim of religion nor the collars of faith it may grant. Speaks little to the nature of the individuals that wear them. The better angels of man can be put to the tested in almost any arena. This has been a great lesson for me. Thank you for opening my eyes to that fact. Ciao …
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Barry Lee Lopatic
Actually, Boston is not the only place where demands are being brought forward.
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Rev. B
Perhaps you should. If you do, PLEASE let me know how that works out for you. ;)
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Billy Heckstall
Jesus did ask for reparation for his people, so did Moses. In away, according to most Christian beliefs. God required reparation, supposedly for the sins of Adam (if you choose to believe that) and you were there either. But, the bill got paid! Listen my friend this conversation was started around the idea that a so-called black church wanted reparation from the so-called white churches of Boston. I don’t know their reasoning. But, the question was what did we as individuals think of the ideas. It is not a nationwide request but a local one. Since, neither of us know the full argument. Why don’t we just take five and find out about the facts surrounding the request. Because, to be honest! I have no dog it that fight. However, I did have an issue with people making accusations, about a people they know nothing about; except through books and twilight zone interpretations. Any farther conversation along any lines out side of that. Holds no interest what so ever to me. Especially since, it can’t be resolved here, not with highly unenlightened minds. You can’t breathe air in a vacuum. With that, I wish you and your colleagues a good day. Ciao…
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Rev. Michael Gerraghty II
A beautiful post! Perfectly accurate and 100% TRUTHFUL!
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Richard Albright
One of the primary arguments against race-based reparations is that it goes against the principle of equality. Critics argue that all citizens should be treated equally under the law, regardless of their race or ethnicity. Providing assistance to one race could be seen as privileging that group over others, potentially exacerbating racial tensions and divisions. While there is no denying the historical injustices and systemic racism that certain racial groups have faced, determining who should receive reparations and how much they should receive is a complex and divisive issue. Many argue that it's challenging to accurately quantify the harm done to specific individuals or communities and to determine who is entitled to compensation. Some opponents of race-based reparations argue that it could perpetuate stereotypes and stigmatize the very communities it aims to help. By singling out a particular race for special treatment, it may reinforce negative perceptions and undermine efforts to promote racial harmony and inclusivity. Another concern is the allocation of resources. Critics argue that resources would be better spent on initiatives that benefit all disadvantaged communities, regardless of race. This approach would address the root causes of inequality and uplift all marginalized groups, rather than focusing solely on one racial group. Implementing race-based reparations would require significant logistical and administrative challenges. Questions about funding such programs, determining eligibility, and preventing fraud and abuse exist. Additionally, reparations do not guarantee that they would effectively address the underlying issues of poverty and inequality. Overall, while the idea of government assistance as reparations for one race may have some support among certain groups, it faces significant opposition and criticism due to concerns about fairness, stigmatization, resource allocation, and practicality. Many argue that a more inclusive approach to addressing systemic inequality and injustice is needed to promote true equality and social justice for all.
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Dr Asha Sharma
It was a shameful thing people were enslaves but getting money will not serve any real purpose all the people who were slaves are no more and children do not deserve anything. Free money is not the answer to the problem
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
First of all. There is no problem but 9ne of deadly sins: SLOTH. Too lazy to get a real job and create businesses.
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Father Frederick
This is what I called Colluded Entitled Gross Extortion. It's the ability to fashion yourself so hard as a victim, and find someone who then pays the price, that you can justify a mob and facilitate people into fear if they don't pay.
My kin were killed by the French king for support of the Templars. I had a family member hung in Quebec because he refused to give his farm horses to a corrupt politician and land owner. I had family killed in Germany in both WW-1 and WW-2. So I ask.... when do I get reparation for them? When does someone pay for the deaths of family, and for the taking of land?
OR ... is it only when a minority gins up a cause, and rallies the masses who all threaten violence if they are not paid reparations? Reparations, as defined by the wacko left, is what most educated people call EXTORTION.
For the record, none of my family ever had slaves, traded with people who had slaves, or capitalized as the result of slavery.
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Billy Heckstall
Sir, good life to you!
I am very lost on your comments, please clarify this for me. When has anyone threatened attack on America for not paying reparations? What are you talking about? As for your family’s lost? You have my deepest regards. However, that has nothing to do with what we’re talking about in this article, or about this country. Perhaps my friend, you should do more research on the subject before commenting. No one wishes harm on America, but only that she keeps her promises as the British did with the slaves they freed from this country; and until the 2000(s) they were still paying that debt. Please, try reading and fact checking before commenting. With all due respect to you sir, have a blessed life in God’s grace. Amen…
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James Richard Munro
We just got over Black History month. When do we have White History month? My relatives were Yankies, and some died in the civil war. I think we should have a " Thank A Yank " Holliday.
What's that, did I hear a Thank you?? Didn't think so.
Pastor Jim
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Niqqa Slappa
Just as soon as we get "traditionally white colleges, a "Miss White" USA, a White Entertainment channel, and an NAAWP. But don't hold your breath for that to come. Americas bleeding heart liberals wil lnever allow that. That would be "raysiss". Gnomesaying?
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oy_gevalt
I suppose you could contact your representatives and propose this... Maybe one of your local White Nationalist/Neo-Nazi groups could help you get a petition together... But congrats on making it through Black History Month unscathed. 🙄 I hope you feel better.
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James Richard Munro
oy-gevolt. You might have something there.? I contacted my district councilmen to see if he would support something like that. He wasn't available. Seems he was attending A meeting about discrimination towards Hispanic's. Went to the mayor's office next. He is out of town attending a Black Mayors convention.
Then I contacted our Governers office. You guessed it. Not available. He is off to a Black Governers convention on racism. Next is our congressmen's office. He also is not available. He was attending the Black Caucus seminar. NOTE. Did you know that you cannot become a member of the black caucus committee unless you are black? Sounds a bit like discrimination to me. -
Keith Allen Steele Eash
Thank you! But. I'll be labeled with white privilege.
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Rev. Tim
Every month is White History Month.
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Joe Bennett
James Richard Munro One of the silliest things that could be said about U. S. history is that it neglects whites. I suppose you have not read the history of the United States it is replete with the exploits of white america. There is NO NEED FOR A WHITE HISTORY MONTH.
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Marilyn
No one owes anyone reparations. It's time to move on & stop with the nonsense that anyone is owed anything.
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Jeffrey Charles Harvey
I would think retributions should be made not only to blacks but all legal citizens of any color for Biden's illegal regime running things and giving illegals rights over tax paying American citizens! Slavery is over!..Remember W.W.J.D...Amen?..Amen!
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Billy Heckstall
I do agree half heartedly with somethings you’ve said, but only partially. However, I don’t agree slavery is over, at least not the shadows of it. Still, politicians and others don’t address these people as just Americans, but as Black Americans. As far as, the political angle you threw in. I have no dog in that fight on this site. However, as for people being treated fairly. That’s not Biden’s fault nor any other politician. That blame falls on the American public. When we stopped beating our own drums, in every community and started giving power over us to big business and politicians. Then and only then; did we give up our freedom in every form. I believe the buck stops here at our door and as long as the people stay divided. They will have victory over us, in every way; from taxes, to education even to our religious beliefs. If we claim our politicians are corrupt, then we tell the world we are corrupt as well. We should be very care not to wash our laundry in the eyes of other Nations. It makes us appear weak, as well as, lost. And I believe God’s people, are not lost! I will close with this, whatever your political views, I support your right to have them. But, that doesn’t make either one of us less American because we disagree. God bless and keep you in his grace always. Amen…
P.S. By the way, when one owes a debt. One should pay it. That goes for a country as well.
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Alun Lloyd Palmer
Slavery in the North? Perhaps Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Virginia and other Southern states should pay reparations, but Boston, Mass? What am I missing here?
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John Robert Milner
Mass was a slave State prior to the Civil War. Lincoln had cannons trained on Mass to prevent them from going with the Confederacy! Additionally he intentionally had Union soldiers march through Mass as a reminder! Historical fact
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James Mounts
According to the 1790 census -- and all censuses since -- slavery was nonexistent in MA beginning circa 1780s. The scenario you describe applies to MD, a border state with a large southern-leaning population.
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John Robert Milner
You are correct.
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Lisa Miller
The North had slaves right up into the 1880's. They called them "apprentices for life". So, just like most groups... The more obscure the word or name... The better and easier it is to hide wrongdoing. So, they didn't call a slave a slave... Because slavery is illegal... But apprenticeship is not illegal. So, they are going to be my apprentice doing all the work for me until they die... This is the mindset in the North. But that's always been the case even in politics. (This whole thing is a political game.) Even in politics where people claim Democrats want power to be in the hands of the people. And Republicans want to take everything. You need to look up and find out what a democracy and a republic are... That's why the pledge was taken out of schools. (One republic... Under god...) Lincoln said the slaves could go free... If they helped him with just this one last thing... (Look it up.) Lincoln was also a Republican. (And as much as they say the parties were different then. That is a lie. They are the same. Since it was the Democratic party that founded the KKK.)
https://acwm.org/blog/myths-misunderstandings-north-and-slavery/
And this has been... A The More You Know minute....
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James Mounts
Lisa, you should have called it a "the more you THINK you know minute."
- Even if some individuals found a way to temporarily skirt the law it does not mean "This is the mindset in the North." From where then came all those blue-clad saviors?...from the West? - The "pledge" was removed from schools not because of the definition of democracy and republic but because it referenced God. - The Emancipation Proclamation freed only the slaves "owned" by those people currently in rebellion. President Lincoln feared if he freed all he would lose the border states like MD and KY. to The Confederacy. - Please don't site internet garbage. As evidenced by me, any fool can publish on line, Check sources not affiliated with Farrakhan or KKKK. -
James C Gibson
Perhaps if the blacks hadn't been brought here these decendants could stillbe in Africa starving to death
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James Mounts
To some, loss of food is less important than loss of freedom.
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Billy Heckstall
It was Confederate Soldiers that formed the KKK! Please learn your history and a southern general was chosen to lead them, I think his last name was Forest a former officer; and I’m not referring to the movie. 😅😂🤣 You’re right about one thing, which your boy Trump is proving. Both parties are the same.(smile)
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Daniel Gray
The largest slave-owner In Mass was Isaac Royall, with 12 slaves in 1754. The Royall's slave house, in fact, still exists, adjacent to the Isaac Royall House now maintained by Medford as an historic house museum. In 1715, Ebenezer Brooks bought some land from William Symmes and built a house near Symmes Corner.
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Nathaniel Joseph Merritt
Certainly! Dig up your long-dead ancestors who were slaves and I will dig up my long dead ancestors (none owned slaves but what the hey) and my ancestors can pay your ancestors. Oh, you mean ME PAY YOU! I never owned slaves and YOU WERE NEVER A SLAVE. Sheesh. More plantation mentality. "Whitey owes me just because I'm black." Grow up kiddo.
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David Buck
These demands for so-called 'reparations' are nothing more than an attempt at blackmail. Wasn't there, didn't do it. I owe them nothing whatsoever.
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Steven Ferrell
Enough of this garbage already. No one owes reparations to anyone. First off, can you prove you are from slaves?
Also what about people like me whose family did not come to this country until after slavery, should we have to pay when we had nothing to do with any of it?
Giving free money will not fix anything.
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Kathryn Darcy Smith
This is just a money grab. People who have never been slave owners paying people who have never been slaves. Yeah no.
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Theresa Lee Siri
What about the Civil War and all the white lives lost so they could be free isn't that reparations enough? 620,000 people died in that war.
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John Casillo
what about all the white slaves???......these ministers need God to give them a swift kick in the a**
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Bishop William Dusenberry, DD
As is done in France; anyone can go to any public college, and/or university -- including medical and law schools - as long as they can pass the entrance examinations. The USA should (as reparations) provide this to everyone entitled to receive reparations -- at least, and until every USA'n became eligible for having the same.
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ServantOfJudgement
That depends on which french government you're talking about William.
France has had 16 government change-outs since we've declared independence. Apparently socialism doesn't work. Everything you suggest america do drives the bus to destruction and revolt.
I'll pass on modeling our country to repeatedly defunct socialist nations and the bumbling idiots leading them.
Unfortunately we've got our own idiots driving us to socialism. In other news, the country is on the brink of anarchy.
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Daniel Gray
No such thing as a Bishop here. Stop trying to inflate your imagined titles.
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James Mounts
Both my great-grandfather and his brother were killed fighting to free your great-grandfather. Because of their deaths, my family lost both their farm, and their business, thus depriving their descendants, including me, of the means to succeed. Don't you think it is time you ponied up and forked over a million or two?
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Larry R Mowrer Jr
I have a problem with anyone of any color demanding this. Now I believe God is color blind we are all equal there was a time when white man thought himself superior over any color and that was a sad time for all now saying that I never had a slave my parents never had a slave my grandparents never had a slave my great grandparents never had a slave I can't go any further then that so for anyone of color to think I owe them is sad in itself especially when slavery is still going on in other countries and it's black man selling Black man and no one bats an eye. We are all gods children doesn't matter what color you are it's time the real problem gets addressed.
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Keith Allen Steele Eash
When it comes to whites being superior that is a crock of crap. God chose the Jews as a Chosen People recognizi.g him as the only God. The message of Christ went to the Jews and Gentiles. The only superiority stems from the fact white were entrepreneurs. That filtered down to those who see themselves as victims of racism. I would say they got their reparations already. Slaves had better living co duties then their fellow Africans running around naked or in skins. They didn't go hungry either. That's the gist of it. Get a job and shut up.
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Thomas P. Davis
God didn't choose the Jews because they were better than any other of His children. He chose the Jews to spread the gospel and when they did not, He took that distinction away from them. God is no respecter of persons.
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Billy Heckstall
It seems there’s a great deal of ignorance flowering among these so-called people of God! Even a little note of anxiety and anger, wow! I wonder what these comments would look like in the eyes of whatever God they claim to believe in. Knowing nothing of what they speak. It’s amazing, how so many have such deep feelings about a subject they’ve never experienced. Nor apparently haven’t any knowledge there of, I have to wonder what God they serve? Before, many of you comment from that deep dark place within you. What don’t you ask yourselves why this article really disturbs you? You’ve never been these people, nor do you know or have lived their American experience. How can you speak now, with such certainty? Is beyond any scholar I know understanding. I’m sure even Jesus would have the same wonder. Maybe, this article is so much about those people in Mass. But, perhaps that article is about us and a chance for each of us to see our true selves. Fact check ourselves for once. God’s grace be with you Amen…
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Todd Leslie Miller
Boy, you are on a roll! How big of a check are you anticipating? Cha ching, cha ching!
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Billy Heckstall
It sad, you seem to have missed the point of the conversation. I don’t want any money from you are the people that control your mind. Besides, the monetary funds these people are asking for has nothing to do with you. Wake up! The conversation was whether the so-called black churches of Boston should receive reparations from the so-called white churches of Boston. Nothing else! How in God’s name, your brain slipped into the idea that I would receive anything is beyond comprehension. For whatever reasons they feel that way. Perhaps, you need to discover why they feel that way before commenting. It might help to clear that veil away so your replies won’t lose there desired effect. Whatever that might be? For that answer, maybe you should check your motives and most of all, your heart! God bless…
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Barry Lee Lopatic
Actually it does....it sets a precedence that will be repeated throughout this great country. And that's when the new culure war takes on its full nature. That is what "THEY" want!
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Lisa Miller
I hate when people say color blind. It's quite offensive. It is because you are saying you do not see that person's race, or acknowledge them as another race.
I believe we need to celebrate our differences and not let them divide us. God made us all in the image of God. God has no race, no gender, no hate, no bigotry... God is God. If we are all in the image of God does that go to reason that God looks like a human? But I believe God is what you want God to look like. Do you want God to be a woman? God is now a woman. A man? God is a Man. Etc.
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Russel A. Kester
Lisa, I thought about your post and have come to think that colorblind applies to impersonal events like getting a job, or mortgage, or into college, and seeing someone's physical attributes applied to personal interactions such as finding a boy/girlfriend, friends in general, social groups. As a society we don't want to discriminate against or for anyone based on physical attributes. As individuals we each have our attraction to or away from said attributes. At least that's what I'm thinking now after thinking about your post.
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Arthur Dixon Jones
My responsibility for slavery is 0 my families is 0. Maybe I could receive reparations for my ancestors who were killed fighting to help and free the African Americans. I have never heard even a thank you for this. I have all the information about my ancestors who were killed for the people of this country. All we have heard from never been a slave citizens is Give me,give me, give me.All I can say is study hard, work hard and you can achieve anything, ✝️
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Michael James Mason
You don't get to collect collect when you weren't the victim!
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John Alex Paxson
Anyone who is still alive now, who was a slave deserves reparations, relatives and offspring deserve nothing but an apology ... why is everyone looking for easy cash ... if you want it ...WORK ... like the rest of this country!
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Cynthia B. Adwell
Well said! No amount of money can make what happened to blacks in this country before emancipation all right! But, no one alive now was a slave then! An apology should suffice. My great-great grandfather, and his two brothers were put in homes to be indentured servants. They were beaten and tortured for imaginary infractions. These were young boys, 7, 12, and 14. The eldest was crippled for life. The youngest brutally murdered at 8, for an imagined slight. Young, promising white boys. We all have atrocities of one kind or another, in our family history. Should I not also be eligible for reparations from the government? Of course not! InAmerica, you get the privilege to make whatever of yourself. My ancestors experience does not make me who I am. I do! About time everyone in this country realize this. Stop blaming someone else for your lack of mobility in this rat race! Put on your big boy/ big girl undies, pull “‘‘em up, and make something of yourself. My parents didn’t pay for my college education. I did. There wasn’t a government tit for me to suck on. I raised my five children on my own. Without help from anyone. I attempted to get help, but was refused even a modicum of help. Why? I was too pale, and they didn’t mind telling you back then, that only black, minorities would be receiving help. I learned to make do,and live without. No crying because my ancestor was mistreated! And no feeling my country owed anything to me. Have pride in yourself. Pull up the boot straps, and take care of yourself. There is no free lunch.
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Billy Heckstall
What are you people talking about? The topic was about whether so-called black churches should receive reparations from so-called white churches of Boston. Nothing else!!! Before commenting on the topic, perhaps we should focus on the question asked. Before, making bold statements that carry no weight in the subject matter. Besides, they’re not asking you are the government for a dime. Maybe, we should ask why they feel that way, first. I do regret the lost of many people’s relatives in their attempts in coming to America. However, their story may differ from the African experience. I know and you can fact check this. That America would not be a world power today had it not been for slavery. And I suppose like any union worker they feel. Why should they get a piece of the pie? Besides, how many of your ancestors would have scurried to get here, if America had become a rich and powerful nation? You had nothing to do with that, nor many of your ancestors, but nonetheless you ate with gratitude from that tree. While, the people who made that dream possible for you, were not allowed the simplest of pleasures in some places. Not even being allowed to enter through the same doorways most so-called whites could cross, even for an education. I know this, because many of these pathetic experiences were mine; and being my great-grandmother was a slave baby. I didn’t have to read about it in a book. And I still don’t want your money, as if their talking about your money in the first place.😅🤣😂 You have contributed one dime to the funds they are referring to, so relax… While I know every word I’ve shared will fall on deaf ears and harden hearts. I needed to say it, for all the people who are blindly ignored by the masses. As they sing the National Anthem and skip happily to work over the bloody slaughtered and forgotten indigenous people of this country. Why in the world would they think twice, about those dead bodies of slaves that helped build and fought for this great land of the free. Where they still fight for voters rights and the indigenous people are still fighting to protect their burial grounds from greedy festering mongers. In God we trust?😅😂
Have God filled life people!!! Read, research, find a heart… Then pray!
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Janis Carol Sommers
Money does not change Racism. Haters will hate more. Resentment boils under the skin of Whites and Blacks. Talking with each other is the only way. I attended a conference where overall theme was DEI. I received financial assistance to attend. Many others did, too. I heard of a black attendee who deemed it part of her reparations to attend to for free, even though she could have paid out of pocket. I thought I was receiving a scholarship. I am white. Are reparations in the mind of the receiver. Knowing she had money to pay, I think it was exploitive of her to accept a free ride without the discussion of reparations. It sounded like stealing or sneaking. Reparations are repayment but who gets to just take money? What GOOD was done towards not repeating the crimes of the fathers?
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Brien
Hmm, an interesting concept. Let's take it even further. I would like all churches, white, black, yellow, brown, purple, green, ect., to pay restitution for the 2000 years of bloody history up to present day. That should be quite the bill. That is no more ridiculous than this article.
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Daniel Gray
Ok Fine. let them get their so called reparations, and then EVERY ONE of the Native American Tribes/Nations should then go back after these IDIOTS demanding reparations from them for helping to steal OUR land. They are nothing more then a group of people wanting something for nothing. Just like Ben and Jerrys who tried to claim that all the land in American was stolen and it should be given back, (and it should if thats the way they feel) and then clammed up tighter then a Whales sphincter at 3000 feet below sea level when you had a Native American clan/tribe/Nation say they wanted the land back that B&J's HQ sits on and caused such a major backlash that Unilever (who owns B&J's) has decided to cut all ties with them and now they will either sink or swim on their own. Sort of reminds me of the old saying "mess around and find out" Seems they did and they are. Now its time for this group to learn that hard lesson.
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Daniel Gray
One more thing. You should be able to trace your ancestors back to 1863 to see if they were slaves. And if they were not or they came here after that date then you should not get anything. Now in saying that care to guess how many Blacks are going to find out they are not entitles to anything (at least in their minds) and care then to guess how this is going to fracture the black community to the will receive and wont receive? I mean Harris's own family were slave owners.....wonder is she is going to pony up? I mean just in Kentucky alone you have over 3,777 slave owners. And what about the Europeans who were brought to the US and sold as slaves or "indentured servants" shouldnt they get some of this mythical money this group is trying to demand?
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Joe Bennett
Daniel Gray I guess you missed the day in history class where enslaved people were merely a hash mark on the census rolls indicating age and gender. Unless that person happened to have been gifted to another person in a will, the first real trace of the majority of Black People in the country by name isn't until the 1870 census.
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Joe Bennett
Daniel Gray I guess you missed the day in history class where enslaved people were merely a hash mark on the census rolls indicating age and gender. Unless that person happened to have been gifted to another person in a will, the first real trace of the majority of Black People in the country by name isn't until the 1870 census.
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Rev. Tim
How far back do these reparations go? My forefathers were murdered, enslaved, displaced, and so on by someone else's forefathers, if you go back far enough. I feel the effects today. What's the Statute of Limitations (or Repose) on this sort of thing?
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Colleen McAllister
I simply do not see how paying money to descendants of slaves will change anything. The US was hardly the only country involved in the trade of human slaves, and blacks were not the only ethnicity/race enslaved. Human slavery goes on today. What we really need to do is stop it from happening in the future. Try as you might you cannot change the past. Say you're sorry and move on.
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oy_gevalt
“We are coming to get our check.” -- To me, this comes off more as a threat than an effective means of getting others on your side.
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Alexander Arends
I owe no one for any sins committed by my forefathers. Besides, reparations solve nothing. We need to be more focused on today, rather than the past. Having been an adult for most of my life, I can't even blame my parents for how I was treated as a child. I have been an adult long enough to make any correction to my upbringing. We need to stop thinking of people of color as some inferior species of being. They are, or can be far more successful than me because of being more intelligent, more talented, more industrious, more personable, or more ambitious than myself. I wish that on any one. We need to build up self esteem, not self pity. If it's to be, it's up to me.
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Thomas P. Davis
My understanding from listening to a secular geneticist decades ago being interviewed on a Christian radio station, he said that if he was to believe the story of creation and seeing all the color combinations in this world today, in order for that to happen, Adam and Eve could not be black nor white. They would have needed to be brown. So, since they are the ones that put us into this mess, maybe we should go after that race for reparations too. Opps I made an error there is only one race, the human race. For now, I will go by the Word, 2Th 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. Basically, the same words that were on the wall in the mess hall at boy scout camp.
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Rev. Michael Gerraghty II
Racially motivated "pastors" should be relieved of their duties and they are NOT doing what their position requires. What a complete JOKE.
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George A Dale
Have we reached the ultimate stage of absurdity where people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, while other people are not being held responsible for what they are doing today?
This was written by Thomas Sowell an educated Black American.
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David Buck
As usual, Thomas Sowell is talking sense. They'd not get a cent from me in so-called 'reparations'.
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Russel A. Kester
Thomas Sowell's books should be required reading in our schools.
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Thomas William Beavers
All I hear is a racist!
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Russel A. Kester
Thomas, by whom? From the race hustlers today who continue this rhetoric or from living persons who will not be held responsible for what dead people from the past did?
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Daniel Babcock
Slavery has been around for thousands of years, and the ancestors of this group asking for reparations were more than likely slave owners. It was common practice in Africa to make slaves of conquered tribes. If they want reparations go back to the people who enslaved and sold their ancestors. The USA is the ONLY nation that not only freed the slaves, but continues to ensure that all people have equal rights regardless of their Ethnicity. What these people actually want is free money, none of them were ever slaves , so reparations for what exactly?? They have MORE than equal opportunity to make a good life here, and most of those with the same drive as their " white " counterparts have done extremely well. This is the only nation where people of color have everything they need in excess. Stop with the hands out mentality.
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Todd Leslie Miller
I think it was Cedric The Entertainer’s character in the movie ‘Barbershop’ that said if you give people reparations all that will happen is Cadillac stock will go through the roof. And I recall that the comment pissed off a lot of the barbershop patrons.
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Irvin March Cutler
That’s ridiculous,repatriation is a way of begging to cover your own. Inability. I have 1/2 Jew in me and Jews were slaves For 5,000 years yet we never panhandle. Rise Up as Jesus said for we created our reality.
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Todd Leslie Miller
Irvin, ya nailed it! Every single Jew needs to demand that Egypt cut them a reparations check for enslaving their ancestors 5,000 years ago.
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Thomas Edwin Peterson
NO just NO.
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Paul Johnson
Really how foolish are stupid can we the people get? Trying to get people to feel sorry for someone who doesn't want to work. What part of getting a Job and going to work along with an education is that asking to much? How for back do we want to go before we understand that there comes a time in each person's life that you need to stand on your own two feet? Since when do you are I need to pay for something that occurred before any of us were born? I guess that when it comes to some there is never a time that a statute of limitations has ran its course, are do we do what is going on in New York just keep changing the rules until we get our way. HATE, BITTERNESS, GREED, BLINDNESS,WITH SELFISHNESS at its roots.
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Robert Page Matthews
Seeing as all black slaves taken out of Sub-Saharan Africa were first captured and enslaved by other black Africans, perhaps you should first have all black people pay reparations. 🙄 I can't say I'm surprised to see black priests playing their black victim card telling white people to give them money. What a joke! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa
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Paul Johnson
Don't you just love it when people are driven by Greed and Pride which becomes Selfishness. Lets take from Peter to pay Paul that really makes sense doesn't it??
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Rolando Couce
And how about all reparations for the people who had property damaged by black people rioting
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Christopher E Alegria
It was literally hundreds of years ago. Drop it. Go on with your lives. Everyone in America was adversely treated at one point or another. Time to move on and focus on a better future rather than trying to get revenge for something that happened so long ago.
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James C Gibson
Perhaps if the blacks hadn't been brought here these decendants could stillbe in Africa starving to death
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Jack A Mabry
We whites want reparations for the costs to free the slaves during the Civil War!
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Guy Sutherland McLaren
I have never owned a slave and the only of my ancestors to do anything with slavery, was a slave,
I am white though, so no reparations for the like of me, right?
I don't understand why people who were never enslaved, wwant those that have never owned slaves to pay "reparations", Can someone explain this to melike I am 5 please?
I never voted for Apartheid, some of my ancestors did, so that makes me guilty?
Victims that survive are no longer victims unless they desire to be. I meet many victims of Apartheid that were born after 1994, and I meet many that are victimised by "Apartheid" laws renamed and rebadged under the new South African law, some born after the end of opression and race laws were supposed to have been removed.
I suspect this slavery reparations movement is not much different to the land movement ibn South Africa where the landless are given buckets of money by choice rather than taking the land offered, or taking the land and destroying the farming operations with neglect and then complaining that they have no land, or no means.
paying slavery reparations is akin to paying a black mailer, paying once will not styop them from coming back for more.
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Billy Heckstall
I have no concerns about the topic, really. But I do have a remark about the ignorance and blind bigotry displayed, by so many over this article. It’s actually laughable. I don’t recall when I’ve seen so many religious bigots gather in such unisons.😅😂🤣 There were no cries against the so- called whites, when they were given free land grabs in the eighteen-hundreds. A privilege not afforded to so-called black folks. No ones upset about the fact that America has been accepting funds from England into this century. That was paid for the slaves that were taken to Nova Scotia after the War of Independence. (Fact check it, please.) And don’t forget the funds Haiti paid to France for their liberation. Wow! I have lived in the shadows of slavery and bigotry all my life; even now, we’re trying to maintain our voter’s rights. A form President tells us to go back to your Sht-hole country! We were amended into your Constitution, to clarify that we were human beings.
My family, as far as, we’ve been about can be traced back to 1825, not to mention our Native American heritage, Almost every male member of my family has been since WW1 been a participate, and still are participates in every conflict this country has been engaged in. I have family buried in Italy as well as Vietnam, where I served. My grandfather called paying the rent. Years before that, I was still getting on the back of buses; going into the back doors of theaters and being turned down for jobs they told me I was over qualified. I don’t know why many of you are complaining, most of you were even in this country when this money was acquired. But, you behave as if it’s coming from your pockets and as if you’re more American than people who were before your ancestors arrived. Now, that’s humorous. But please know this many of us don’t want your blood money. But, is a decent remark about your dislikes for what these soul are asking, too much to ask of you God loving souls… As for the slave trafficking and the so-call help the indigenous people gave the slavers. It has always been true of warring tribes all over the world. But, name one country that made a busy of raping, killing, burning, slaughtering even those who tried to lift themselves up, denying them education, their language, their religion and force many to sleep with their own parents. Whole fashioning an organization like the KKK to keep them in their lower station. They even sold souvenirs of their body parts and have picnics in the process and until this day still practice some form of discrimination. O’yeah, how many of you stood up and cried against the reparations funds to rebuild Germany, Japan and Italy. Countries that fought to destroy this one? What are you smoking?😅🤣😂 If you don’t know the history of this country, or lived in it during some of these times. Please. Shut up! Besides, it’s not your money they’re asking for God loving people. It’s for something and from some people you wouldn’t ever understand. That’s obvious! You people always taking about woke… Why don’t you wake up!!! I don’t want your money. I’d just like to know. Why, with such disregard for other people’s suffering. How do you form the words in your mouths, to call yourselves, minister! God bless you… Whatever god you’re serving
I’m sure Jesus is not in that line…
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Thomas P. Davis
I work with a black Baptist pastor who has been studying the history of slavery for decades. He told me that he is not 100% black but also part Jew. He told me that it was the 100% black African government that was the entity that started to ship those blacks mixed with Jewish DNA out of their country to keep it pure.
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Billy Heckstall
I don’t know what part of Africa he’s talking about, I don’t. But, most of the coastal countries along the Atlantic were of the Muslim faith, as well as, tribal traditions. That might have been a factor for wars and slaves, yes. But, also in a number years many countries in Africa have asked many people to return to their homeland. In Israel for many years they denied Ethiopians the right to that country claiming they were not true Jews. That has since been corrected. People from India and China have been requested to go home. But, not to purify any race that I know of, but it was done to reclaim their lands from those that would colonize them. Also, many countries in Africa as you call it, have requested that diaspora return home to reclaim their place among their people. As for your friend, I hope he realizes that there are people who call themselves the Jewish people. Then there is the Jewish faith which is he? His DNA must speak to that and his heart. I do know if he has doubts as to how the outside world see him? There are still some sundown towns in Mississippi, that will help him make a decision. I pray he find his way from whatever darkness he is experiencing (no pun, intended). Ciao!!!
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Thomas P. Davis
Interesting as you mention DNA, He has not had his DNA tested, but his son did, and he said it has Jewish DNA in it. He has also told me on more than one occasion that all the description of God in the bible shows that He was Black, even down to His afro hair. All that I ever respond is that I did not know they did DNA test back then and I could care less as to what color God is. All I look at is the fact that He is no respecter of persons.
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Billy Heckstall
Thank you my friend I too have no concerns as well about the complexion of Jesus I teach and only concern my people with the Wisdom he bestowed upon the world Which I believe a great deal of which was lost I’m also not overly concern with your friend’s discovery of his heritage and I wish him well on his journey But I thank you most of all for being one of the few gentlemen I’ve met on this medium Thanks! I hope to hear more from you in the future articles to come. Ciao…
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ServantOfJudgement
My ancestors were taken and sold to the colonies from 1747-1750ish.
Everybody reading this has ancestors that were both slave owners and slaves. All nations and people of the earth can claim this.If we're going to hold ourselves accountable for our father's crime we all have these to be found guilty of:
Rape, murder, theft, bigotry, racism, adultery, kidnapping and any other thing you consider bad. No exceptions and no excuses.
Those who are in favor of this insanity are filled with an undying love of hate. They're not happy unless they're angry.
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Nathaniel Joseph Merritt
WRONG. My eldest sister has done extensive research into our family on both sides. NO ONE was ever a slave owner and both the Thwings and the Merritts fought (and some died) for the Union in the American Civil War. To make the sort of sweeping unwise statement you made speaks volumes about you and the caliber of both your native intelligence and your ability to think clearly.
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Steven Ferrell
Wrong!! My family didn’t come here till after slavery and did not own any slaves.
How about go to the country that sold your family into slavery and tell them to give reparations.-
ServantOfJudgement
Nathan and Steven,
The trouble is your thinking about yesterday, last week or last year. I'm talking about mankind's existence.
Expand your mind to the beginning of man's beginning. Once you've done that you should be able to come clean with what you've done. Well, not you but your ancestors. I'm talking about a time period from the second I post this to the moment we made a stone tool.
If we're going to hold ourselves accountable for a centuries past event nobody alive had anything to do with then let's hold ourselves accountable to the beginning of time for all crimes.
Please learn about ex post facto laws and why they violate our constitution.
EVERY SINGLE HUMAN IS THE DESCENDANT OF A SLAVE OWNER OR TRIBE OF SLAVE OWNERS AND WORSE, WITH ZERO EXCEPTIONS. EVERYONE IS THE DESCENDANT OF SLAVES. EVERYONE.
Oh by the way Nathan, it's not uncommon for an idiot to think someone else is an idiot if that person's intellect is vastly greater than their own. Oftentimes they just can't comprehend the depth of the discussion. Their eyes just sorta glaze over once the tough thinking starts.
You don't honestly think some of us have squeaky clean ancestors do you?
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Ronaldo
Some of my ancestors were already here when the European boat people first arrived, and they owned no slaves. Most of my other ancestors came here in the late 1840s from Ireland and Scotland as indentured farmers, due to the potato famine. They didn't have enough money to own slaves, and were barely more than slaves themselves. In fact, the Irish were often considered less valuable than slaves back then. If you have any evidence that any member of my family ever owned slaves, please present it.
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Bruce Charles Delphia
If it is fair, just and equitable to pay reparations to the descendants of slaves who were never slaves themselves, then is it not fair, just and equitable to pay reparations to the descendants of Union soldiers, sailors and Marines who fought for the freedom of those same slaves?
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Richard Albright
It's important to note that discussing reparations for the historical slave trade is complex and multifaceted. While there are arguments both for and against reparations, I'll address a potential negative aspect:
One negative aspect of providing reparations for the historical slave trade is the potential perpetuation of racial divisions and resentments. By singling out one particular group for compensation based on past injustices, it could exacerbate existing tensions and create a sense of unfairness among other groups who have also faced oppression or discrimination throughout history. This could lead to a backlash from those who feel marginalized or overlooked, further dividing society along racial lines.
Additionally, determining who is eligible for reparations and how much they should receive could be a contentious and difficult process. It may be challenging to accurately trace lineage back to enslaved ancestors and quantify the extent of harm suffered by individuals or communities. This could result in disputes over eligibility criteria and distribution methods, potentially leading to bureaucratic inefficiency and legal battles.
Furthermore, there's a concern that providing reparations could create a dependency mentality within the recipient communities, rather than fostering self-reliance and empowerment. Some argue that instead of focusing on past injustices, efforts should be directed towards addressing systemic inequalities and providing opportunities for all individuals to succeed regardless of their background.
Overall, while the idea of reparations seeks to address historical injustices, it's essential to carefully consider the potential negative consequences and explore alternative approaches to achieve justice and equality for all members of society.
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Charles G Sanders III
The people made worse off by slavery were those who were enslaved. Their descendants would have been worse off today if born in Africa instead of America. It might seem harsh but the terrible fate of their ancestors benefited them. Given the fact that there’s plenty of blame to go around for slavery — plenty of blame to go around among African and Arab states, plenty of blame to go around among Western states — we’re better looking forward, not pointing fingers backward.
If there is a debt, it was created by another generation, another time and place in our history, and in America we do not embrace the notion that I am responsible for my father’s debts.
Reparations advocates argue that this current generation of black people has not shared in the bounty that is America and that any pathology in the black community is rooted in the legacy of slavery. How a monetary payment will address either wrong is unclear, as does the morality of taking money from people who never owned slaves in order to pay people that were never enslaved. Reparations fall in line behind the fight for welfare programs that only subsidize black inertia. The demand for reparations is yet another demand for white responsibility, when today’s problem is a failure of black responsibility.
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Ronald P. Dodd
NO, NO, NO, THAT WAS WAY IN THE PAST AND PRESENT DAY DECEDENT'S CAN NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR FOR FATHERS ACTIONS IRRESPONSIBLE THINKING
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Robert Gagnon
The white house was mostly built by slaves, so go ask the president. In fact, go sue the tribes that captured the slaves they sold to the dutch. Let's not forget the banks that up into the 60's loaned blacks mortgages at ridiculous rates. The banks are the most recent, I'd go with that.
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James Richard Norby
Some of your comments are untrue and others are tired old tropes for people of my color to avoid any responsibility from our past.
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Daniel Gray
Did you own any slaves? If not then what happened before you were born does not apply to you
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Russel A. Kester
James, assuming your color is white, no, white people alive today are not responsible for what SOME white people as well as some black and Indian peoples did in the past. You seem to desire to engage in self-flagellation which is better placed in a religious practice with actual whips for any sins you believe you've committed. But if you insist on flagellating yourself for the sins others committed in the past, by all means do so, but leave the rest of society out of your ritual.
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Daniel Gray
they are all historically factual. I guess you slept through history in the schools you attended?
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Lionheart
Is it true the White House will soon be renamed the Black House, or Rainbow House 🤭
🦁❤️
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Russel A. Kester
I would vote for the rainbow 🌈 house, but not the Trans house. Stick with the seven colors of the rainbow.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Churches should not make a profit, period. They don't pay taxes because of that expectation. I believe in reparations, but in the form of government assistance to equalize the opportunities and quality of life and erase institutional racism. The government does owe that to all African-Americans, because the government still contains elements of racial division that holds Black Americans back unfairly.
If churches have the kind of money that would make any community look to them as a financial institution, they should be using it for charity already. If they are coming off as having made a profit, they've earned any attention this brings them.
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Dean Allen White
We have laws in this country (USA), that grant equal treatment under the law to all races, religions, and ethnicities. We owe NOTHING to ANYONE based on race, religion, or ethnicity. NOTHING is owed to any "community", be it black, brown, red, yellow, or white. Until all the citizens of the USA stop pretending that "The Whites" owe them something for nothing, we will have the divisions in this country that we are seeing now. That we are all "created equal" is true enough, we are all born naked and without possessions. It's what we ourselves later choose to do with the life that is given to us, that separates us, each from the other. In a world of individuals, there is no true, absolute, equality. Something to think about. Extortion is a crime under the laws of the USA. Perhaps these people need to be prosecuted? Forgiveness is the Christian way, and I would advocate for forgiving these church leaders. But they too need to forgive themselves, for harboring such intolerance of their fellow Christians..
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Joe Bennett
Dean Allen White When you can return the stolen opportunities, the burned down towns and people killed by whites because they were Black in this nation, and return the benefits whites achieved at the expense of black folk, then there is no debt.
It is special when the idea of christian forgiveness is thrown up as an expectation. I guess you forgot that it was christians who altered the Bible so that the enslaved people would not know many of the principles written in the book. I find it intolerable that you, as a christian, would insist on being forgiven for something you claim you no responsibility.
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Russel A. Kester
Joe, people could quote statistics from history until their blue in the face to show that what blacks in the past suffered happened throughout history to every type of people imaginable, but that wouldn't satisfy the narrow concept of history you've been taught by terrible teachers so that identity politics can be kept alive and well to demoralize our nation. But we're waking up to this treachery and will not stand for it. Maybe one day, you too will see the folly in such woke ideologies.
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Merlin
Instead of a hand out to those over a hundred later, network and create a philosophy of success to be the envy of the world. Entitlement creates poverty.
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Takaya Kovani Sweeney
I hate these posts.
All it does is stir up more division, especially with the racist usuals that always comment here.
The vitriol and hatred pours off of their written words every time there’s a crayon color “Black” issue…but sitting up here talking about love and unity on other topics.😂
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Russel A. Kester
Takaya, when it comes to the issue of someone being a racist, you seem to be a better authority than anyone else here.
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Kathy Green
Reparations to African-Americans are essential to address the historical injustices, systemic racism, and economic disparities they have endured for centuries. Slavery, segregation, redlining, and discrimination have all contributed to the current socio-economic inequality faced by Black communities. Reparations would not only acknowledge and apologize for these atrocities but also provide much-needed resources, opportunities, and support to help bridge the gap and work towards a more just and equitable society. It is a moral imperative and a crucial step towards healing and building a more inclusive nation.
It is quite peculiar that white Americans do not seem to have an issue with compensating the indigenous people of America or the Japanese Americans who were interned in WW II, yet they struggle with the idea of compensating African Americans who played a significant role in building this nation over the course of 400 years of enslavement. African Americans have endured oppression, suppression, and white supremacy for generations, and this mistreatment persists to this day.
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Doctor Loyal
Don't White Slave descendants deserve reparations as well??
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Billy Heckstall
Yes as soon as they can show proof their folks were enslaved for three hundred plus years; beaten, burned alive, hung and lunched just for being your complexions; denied education, jobs, nice neighborhoods to live in, while their taxed dollars were being spent on other neighborhoods not their own; forced to have sex with their own kin, while watching their babies being sold away and until this day still fighting for voter’s rights. Yes!!!! Absolutely, they deserve as much as the indigenous people of this land does and anyone else that suffered these atrocities do! And I’m willing to stand up for your rights to claim it! America was founded on slavery and just like any union work feels if he’s making his company rich. He deserves a piece of the pie, even if he doesn’t get it! The funny thing about you folks is, not one of you complained when Japan, Italy and Germany got reparations and they tried to destroy you and your country. Nor , have you complained about the help we gave Vietnam or other countries we’ve lost our people to, wow! What’s up with that? I wonder what motives you so hard now? That’s a question you need to ask yourselves!!! God bless…
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Irvin March Cutler
I completely DISAGREE. Christ said we create as in Reap what we Sow. Seems to me the black slave traders should be held accountable but really no one should. Life is what happens.
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Lionheart
How do we know what Jesus ever really said over 2,000 years ago, Sir Irvin?
Did he really exist? It’s possible he might have.
🦁❤️
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Todd Leslie Miller
So you believe that ‘cut me a check and that will settle the matter’? I assure you it won’t. Why? Because enough is never enough.
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Russel A. Kester
Kathy, you seem to have tunnel vision and a very short timeframe when it comes to past wrongs by some people against other people LONG before any people today were born. Think of how many opportunities both Irish and Jewish people were denied in America. Both groups did what they needed to do to carry on despite what happened to their ancestors. Blacks are capable of doing the same and many, many have. Or do you think Oprah is a failure in a racist society? Although there are other examples like Bill Cosby and P. Diddy which might make one wonder if the problems faced by the black community today are due more to internal issues than to external or historical ones.
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Billy Heckstall
That so funny! It doesn’t deserve a response. Forty over forty million people and you name a half a dozen, really? Unfortunately, there’s not enough opening for entertainers as you might think, poor soul. O’yeah, and we all don’t play sports either, wow! You right about one thing the problem is in the community. The trickle down effect of our taxes rarely reach the communities that need those funds the most; and many of the folks living in those closed off area often lack the education to complain. The same conditions exist in the Appalachian communities and towns in this country, wake up! We give tax cuts to the rich and shameless. While the middle class and poor foot the bills, but it’s our children that fight their wars and protect their properties. This is not a racial condition, this is a people divided condition, join the march, stand up! The topic of this conversation was about so-called black and so-called white churches in Boston over reparation. I don’t live in Boston, nor do I attend any church there so I have no dog in that fight. I don’t want any of your money. But, what got me is how many people got on board for this chariot ride. They’ve done history checks; they’ve bought their ancestors up; they’ve even got irate about the matter!😅🤣🤣 My one question is, I wonder if they ever asked themselves why this topic pulls on their nose do hard? My God! Do you see yourselves?😅😂🤣🤣 Bless you… wow!
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Russel A. Kester
Billy, for something you thought didn't deserve a response, you provided a rather lengthy one. Why was that?
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Billy Heckstall
It was needed!
Just thought Others more alert to understanding, might care to know something based on reality. Especially, from someone that was in the game and not on the side lines Read it again pal!
Then buy a mirror! Byeee
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Russel A. Kester
Billy, how can I say this? You come across as if your perspective of reality is factual and true in an objective sense. So when you write that you thought someone might want to know something based on reality from someone who is in the game and not on the sidelines it doesn't really provide any information that helps people understand where your coming from and seems to say that you don't care where they're coming from. Also, to many different topics or ideas make it difficult to respond each one in this format. From other posts you've written, I have the sense that you survived some tough life experiences. Many of us here have. And I'm glad we have. I'm looking forward to future discussions with you where we can narrow the scope and length of our comments to better understand one another.
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Jennifer Leigh Franklin
So yet another church fight? So that's the problems in New England right now.
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Jay Ryan
I find it interesting that so many here say they are not responsible for the actions of those that came before them, yet willingly take on the mantle of "sinner" for the actions of Adam and Eve. But, none of my business...
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Doctor Loyal
Well, as a TV actress said, "Kiss my grits"
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
The problem isn’t so much reparations as addressing the problem of inherited poverty. And that impacts all races. Heard a statistic about the chances of a person born into poverty rising out of the classification. In the US it’s about 1 in 28. In Finland it’s about 1 in 6. Bernie Sanders was ready to address this problem but, well, another problem is that many Americans are also eetarded.
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Billy Heckstall
Righteous!!!
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Harvey Zeller
I don't see anything wrong with the wealthy churches giving money to the blacks. They need everything they can get. It wouldn't hurt wealthy blacks to pitch in too
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Billy Heckstall
Right on!
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Shelley McKinstry
When the United States went against their own people, they apologized, and those people were given restitution in the sum of what the government saw fit. I’m talking about Japanese Americans during WWII. It was something that was paid to my aunts, uncles, my grandparents and my mom. They didn’t ask for it, and tbh it was kind of a slap in the face. The money did not replace the fact that “if you got too close to the fence, the guards would shoot you”. OUR OWN COUNTRY! BUT, we are very prideful in who we are. It was hush money. My grandmother said she wanted to send the money back, and tried to! She didn’t want money, she wanted her family back! That being said, Shame on you for wanting a handout. Shame on you for thinking it’s okay to put one person in front of another! It does not excuse the injustices black people have gone through, or any one else for that matter! If you had to sit in the back of the bus, or if your immediate family was tortured by their owner, my heart goes out to you and I’m truly sorry for what you had to endure. I don’t feel the back person should get any more money than a white person, asian, Martian or otherwise. If money is to be spent on restitution, it needs to be to the people who are alive now. Those people who did suffer. My Gram and Mom are both gone now, and you don’t see me knocking on anyone’s door for a handout? Won’t ever happen. Even if there wasn’t hush money paid, I still wouldn’t ask for a handout. You preach to others about being holy, what would Jesus do? He would forgive and move on, but it doesn’t mean forget. It means to forgive and learn from the past to mold and sculpt the future. Amen
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Billy Heckstall
Even the Hebrews took some form of reparation from Egypt. Let’s get real! So, has Israel in its own way up to this day, or they wouldn’t exist. I admire your ancestors for their pridefulness. But, they did spend nearly three hundred years in bondage to this country making her richer, to the point that other nations wanted to come here. While, still to this day receiving advantages you will never realize because they are norms to you. So much so, you can’t even see them! Thank you for sharing But, try asking yourself What does this trouble you? It doesn’t even effect you in anyway, wow!
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Rev. MichaelRS
PART 1 - I can forgive the typos, but the lack of separate paragraphs is a different story. lol.
My main problems with the reparation issue are as follows and maybe you, with some separated paragraphs, can solve them for me;
. I'm disinclined to pay a penalty for something I have not done to somebody who has not suffered that particular wrong.
One's great great great grandparents number 32. 16 men and 16 women. Let's say one of YOUR 16 3 x great Granfathers Was a Highwayman who robbed and murdered one of MY 16 3 x great grandfathers leaving my 3 x great grandmother to struggle through life with three snotty nose little kids, one of whom would be one of my 2 x great-grandparents.
For that crime and hardship on my 3 x great-grandfather and grandmother, that was the result of the actions of your 3 x great-grandfather, what do YOU owe ME?
I'm going to suggest that you don't owe me anything as I would not owe you anything if the situation was reversed.
I mean you would owe me not to do the same to me or anyone else, and if you heard the story it would be nice and polite of you to say "I'm sorry that happened to your three times great grandparents", but as far as owing anybody anything... I think not.
The white people of America already paid a heavy price for the sin of slavery through a little dust up called the Civil War. The death and destruction visited on the white people of the South by the white people of the North was apocalyptic.
Even before that at the founding of the country there were white people trying to end slavery. There is the so-called 3/5th compromise that has been mischaracterized by the black activist for a long time now.
They say the 3/5 compromise at the 1787 constitutional convention was white people saying that black people were only 3/5th of a human being. That's not true at all.
Slave owners wanted their slaves counted as one whole person FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE CENSUS so they could have more representatives, more power, in Congress. Anti-slave people we're going for that because they know if the slave owners had that much power in Congress there is there would be nothing they could do about slavery then are in the future. So they fought it until slaves were only counted as 3/5 of a person for the purpose of determining congressional representation.
Which is kind of silly anyway because back then slaves and women could not vote. So what would be the point of them having congressional representation. But whatever that's how they thought.
But thankfully that provision passed because some years later in 1807 Congress was able to pass an act banning the importation of new slaves. Which didn't help the ones that were currently here are the ones that were born in slavery but the point is they were white people in the country fighting to end slavery and they were doing the best they could at the time...until that all came ahead with the election of Mr Lincoln.
So you see, Donald Trump was not the first president that the Democrats had a BIG problem with.
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Billy Heckstall
I’m glad you did some reading. But, it was my great granny that was a slave baby and it was I that was denied better schools. I was denied the jobs. I grew up in fear of the insanity that still haunts some parts of the south to this day. But, for all your research you’ve learned nothing but contempt (for lack of a better word). You even believe you’ve proven some twisted point and that’s how sad your rhetoric has become. Until, you’ve live someone else life or at least talk them like a civilized man. You don’t have a clue what their lives or environment has been like! Please, stop shouting from that dark place you live in! Long after the Civil War was over, life for indigenous people as well as so-called freed black slaves was not easy as you think. Soldier were required to protect my family, the KKK rose up to stop any that tried to achieve a goal. Why don’t you read that history that seems to be hidden from you? Perhaps, your research is biased as you seem to be, as most if you people seem to be. To this hour, we’re still fighting just for voter’s rights; there’s still sundown towns in some places in the lower south. Right now they’re trying to write out our history. Where have you been? You speak of that which you know nothing about. Just as Jesus said if the Gentiles in his time and the more you talk, you show your slip. But, I ask you to search your soul and ask this one question. What does something that has nothing to do with you; nor cause you one red nickel, trouble you sooo much? Ciao!
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Rev. MichaelRS
Part 2 - And the reason I engage in what-about-ism is because the black activist would have us believe that the United States is pretty much the only country in the entire history of the world that engaged in the awful practice of slavery.
We weren't and we didn't do it alone.
The North Atlantic slave trade could not have been as big as it was if it was not for the help of black Africans.
So why are none of the US black activists who are calling for reparations from the US also seeking out the descendants of the black tribes in Africa that helped the white man capture other blacks for slavery?
Why aren't they going to the governments of Nigeria and Angola and saying...
"You know, back in the day a lot of your ancestors captured my ancestors from this area and sold them in slavery to the white man. So we think the Nigerian and Angolan governments should pony up some reparations to us black Americans for that."
So then we come down to who gets paid and from whom? Does the whole nation pay every black person? What about all the white people from the formation of the country through the Civil War and beyond who fought politically and physically in war to end slavery. Do their descendants have to participate in the reparations.
What about somebody like me who through my father's side of the family from Tennessee had people fighting on both sides? My Grandmother's people were DieHard Confederates and grandfather's people were unionists and that was before either of those Grandparents were born.
And if we determine the cash reparations should be paid how much do they get paid and who should get them. Certainly not every black person in America. Because here's a fun fact, the majority of black people in America are NOT descendants of slaves, or at least not American slaves. They are descendants of black people that have immigrated here since the end of the Civil War.
No. Sorry to tell you the reparations argument is something that is propagated by the anti-American Marxist who want to put forth the oppressed/oppressor narrative to divide the country. There's no practicality to it and it's only used as a political cudgel against white people.
Yes the United States has not always held up to the high ideals of the founders, but it has always been moving toward them. But today's black activist would have you believe that it's still 1950 and nothing has changed. But they are as disingenuous and wrong as wrong can be.
Lastly, since the link does not seem to work, for a proper perspective on this subject I would encourage everyone to look up the Bill Maher video on YouTube
"Bill Maher - a unified theory of wokeness
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Billy Heckstall
Bill doesn’t live in my community He cannot speak for me And if you think you know what’s going on in other communities where you don’t live Nor, ever experience that world You are as blind as Bill is with his stats Bill is one of the rich and shameless He doesn’t know anymore than what he’s told and that’s a fact! Come on down to Mississippi See what’s really going on Ain’t no bodies down here ever seen a Bill Who???😅😂🤣🤣 My friend, I can see your limited knowledge is based on podcasts channels. Good luck with that. Life experiences you seem to have little in this area. I’ve worked some aid stations down in the lower bottom parts of the Appalachian areas where tourists dare not tread. Believe me every dollar they get from any form of help government or not is appreciated and those hands come in so-called black and white! They’re not asking you for nothing! Their asking that this government that has robbed so many to give to the do wealthy few. Pay their debt. Jesus tells a story about a son to collect for his father. Why is it so hard for people to see that the voices of the dead want their due? Well.., from what is being done this country won’t be here long anyway. So, it won’t matter whether that debt is paid or not. Even your young don’t believe in this lie anymore… so, More power to ya, wise one. Fact check that Then check your heart
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Rev Morse
I don't agree.
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Rev. Zander Nocturn
So...what about black slave owners? If whites need to pay reparations, then so should blacks. Let's see what history tells us about black slave owners...
In 1830, there were 3,775 black (including mixed-race) slaveholders in the South who owned a total of 12,760 slaves, which was a small percentage of a total of over two million slaves then held in the South. 80% of the black slaveholders were located in Louisiana, South Carolina, Virginia and Maryland.
Do the names Anthony Johnson, Antoine Dubuclet or John Carruthers Stanly mean nothing? These are literally just the first 3 of 3,775 that I came across on a simple Google search. Let's see what history shows us about these three alone...
--Anthony Johnson ran a tobacco farm using indentured servants (a term for slaves who could "earn their freedom"...eventually...maybe...). One of those servants, John Casor, would later become one of the first African men to be declared indentured for life.
--Antoine Dubuclet - By 1860, he owned more than one hundred slaves and was considered the wealthiest black slaveholder in Louisiana.
--John Carruthers Stanly was one of the largest slave owners in North Carolina and the wealthiest free black resident.
Now, let's do a quick dive into the other side that isn't discussed... WHITE SLAVERY!
"From Barbados to Virginia, colonists long preferred English or Irish indentured servants as their main source of field labor; during most of the seventeenth century they showed few scruples about reducing their less fortunate countrymen to a status little different from chattel slaves – a degradation that was being carried out in a more extreme and far more extensive way with respect to the peasantry in contemporary Russia. The prevalence and suffering of white slaves, serfs and indentured servants in the early modern period suggests that there was nothing inevitable about limiting plantation slavery to people of African origin." --David Brion Davis, Sterling Professor of History at Yale University
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Billy Heckstall
It was never stated that any ethnicity was to pay reparations. But, the country called, America, which that founded its wealth off of slaves, and still until the 2010’s was still collecting funds from the British for slaves they freed after the war of 1776. From all the research you’ve done, wow! You really are worked up about a so-called black church in Boston asking reparations from the so-called white churches of Boston! I’ll bet money, you don’t belong to one church in Boston. But, you being such a liberal minded fellow travelled all over time and history to find some unbiased bit of history you could prove your point with; whatever that might be. It certainly, has nothing to do with the topic this conversation started on. Nice work champ, at least we know you’re being to think!😅🤣😂😂 Hod bless you dude….
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Rev. Zander Nocturn
So you're saying that a BLACK church asking for reparation from WHITE churches has NOTHING to do with ethnicity? Did you even READ the article? Have you read ANYTHING that ANYONE has said in rebuttal to all of your comments? The entire article is about BLACKS wanting reparation from WHITES for their slavery over the centuries. How does that have nothing to do with black slave owners or white slaves? It's ALL about ethnicity, because the blacks of today seem to think they're entitled to something they haven't earned and don't deserve. Every ethnicity in the entire world has faced slavery, yet only the blacks are asking for reparation, because the black people refuse to let the past stay in the past.
I believe Morgan Freeman (a black actor, in case you don't know) said it best. "How are we going to get rid of racism? Stop talking about it!"
If the black people of today's America would pull themselves up by their bootstraps, they could do something with their lives. Gang violence among blacks is rampant in the inner cities, because the cities don't do anything to curb it. I know several well-educated black people, and they're doing really well for themselves. They also think racism is BS, because it's a lie perpetuated by people who want something they shouldn't have. I'm not saying there aren't racist people in the world, but for a black church to blame a white church for racism, that's where I'm calling BS. As someone said much earlier in these comments, WWJD? Or what would Allah do? Or Buddha? Or Shiva? Or any other religious icon? I promise you, they wouldn't be telling people to give money to blacks for a life of slavery they never lived, nor had to deal with at any point in their lifetime.
The 13th Amendment, ratified in 1865, abolished slavery. That means any slave owners after that time were breaking the law, and should/would have been punished. But it was few and far between. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 abolished segregation. That doesn't mean it didn't still exist, but it was unlawful, and wasn't a standard. So the only black people living today who would have been oppressed by segregation would be 60+ years old, and there are no living black people who ever suffered from slavery. So all in all, this black church doesn't deserve anything from anybody, on a personal, city, state, or country level, let alone any other church in existence.
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Rev. Zander Nocturn
Also, on a slightly more educated and grammatically correct level... I'm BEING to think? What does that even mean? And who is Hod and why would they ever bless me? I certainly hope English is not your first language, because that's the only way your grammar is excusable. Otherwise, maybe you need to go back to elementary school and see about furthering your education.
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Billy Heckstall
Sorry for the computer typos, Slick! But, no need to get worked up. It won’t win any brownie points here. I would figure someone with your great ability to research black history. You would be able to make out what was meant, even with the typos. But, I guess… that was wrong. (Sorry) Your comments are well taken and expected. Because, we knew that your experience living in so-called black communities would benefit us all. Thank you for sharing and telling us how little you know! O’yeah, I’m well over sixty sir! And by my great grandparents being slave babies, my grandparents being born to people with no skills or education also affected my mother and father. Yes, and with the aid of the KKK and white racism which you are apparently well aware of, they made life and the ability to move a head, hell. Especially, since they held positions in government and other authoritarian offices. A piece of paper doesn’t change that kind of ignorance. You’re living proof of that! A country with over forty million people of my race and you decide that an actor (Just stop talking about it!😅😂🤣) and a few successful associates of your’s dictates the lives of everyone else. You people have been do that, since the early 1900’s. What a joke! Denied education, jobs, proper housing; terrorized by ignorance racist. Hung, dragged to death, burnt alive at picnic for fun. Hate by people for just being born, not allowed to eat in the same places, nor schools, nor to walk the streets after dark. Policemen entering your home at will. We still fighting to protect our voting rights. Still, some parts of my state I can’t travel without fear of being arrested. While paying the same taxes for all the above! Yeah, I’m sure you know all about living like that. You know what it is to enter the back door of a theater and the bus and to have people curse you for simply going to school, or even having a neighborhood or town burned down around you for being too successful. Yeah! Sure. After all, the way you talk, I would assumed you lived next door to many of us. Why I bet you even live in a so-called black neighborhood. Really? You want to make fun of something? Perhaps, you should start with your ignorance. Oh! By the way, last time I was attempting to pay you a (Hod) God bless. But, I suppose even he knew better and crossed that off! Sorry… Ciao! ( that Italian, if you didn’t know)
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Russel A. Kester
Billy, your thinking seems bad in a couple of ways. The United States never owned a slave, individuals citizens did. One would have to sue the person who owned the slave. Persons have ethnicities. So your statement that is not about any ethnicity making reparations is wrong. Another issue is your failure to realize that if the US as a nation made such a reparations, then every citizen would be paying said reparations. Why should Asian and Latinos have their taxes pay for these demands for reparations? Again, the SOTU has said that such schemes of having citizens today pay for historic wrongs is not legal. So, why should the white churches pay the black churches? They shouldn't.
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Billy Heckstall
I believe this Nation claims to be A government of the people, by the people and for the people. Which, I believe covers all the individuals involved in this nation. It’s strange though, how everyone wants to bath in the light of America’s glory and the shadow of her pride, but not her debt. America as a whole became a world power, mainly because of ‘King Cotton’ of the south and free slave labor. She never denied the profit then, but wants to deny the debt today. I have no idea what the churches argument is based on. So, I can only support it from this angle. I can only say from my point of view I want nothing from this country, nothing. But, I would like some truth to be known. I don’t teach my people anything less. Just one fact in particular should be expressed clearly and exposed. No immigrates have caused more corruption and death in this country than those coming out of Europe ( including Asia and Russia) from the late 1800 to present day. Yet, the focus seem to be on poor brown people in this country or attempting to get in, please… I think like the union brothers I grew up with, and they are of all nationalities and persuasions. But, we agree upon one thing, and that is: If a company makes its wealthy off of labor. Then labor deserves a share of that pie. The money these people are talking about was in America’s coffers long before many who are complaining had families in this country. Yet, they claim to be more American than the indigenous people that were here from the very beginning. Jesus wasn’t even about money. So, why are so many that claim to be about him, so concerned? Trust me, a country that can drop a bomb on the world and destroy it; a country that can put an entire history of a world on the head of a pin and send satellites into the universe; can definitely figure out this dilemma within a months (If it chose to), of people who should get awarded. And I would agree with you. If I were of your understanding and beliefs. Except, I believe in fair play. And I don’t care for whatever reason they want this money, even for profit! Who am I to deny them the right to fight for it! Their people died creating it… I am not in Boston and I don’t know the full argument and there, I must leave it. As I hope and pray you will… Peace be with you, sir God’s peace…
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Billy Heckstall
What does anything you’re chatting about, has to do with Boston and the churches? They’re in conflict not your ancestors. It won’t cost you or your ancestors a dime. Maybe, you should ask yourself. What’s really bothering you about this? Wow!!!
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John McElligott
Nope
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Peter Senderowitz
Rev. Peter S., I'm a transracial Afrikan-Amerikan- show me the $! But seriously, gang, not one african-american living now has been robbed of his labor by a "master". Ok, if that's the case, I want reparations for the true value of my grandparents' labor ripped off by wage-slave bosses in the sweat shops and basement dens where my ancestors toiled! End racism and class exploitation now, in the present. And how can one measure the value of the labor of chattel and wage slaves? Best to adopt the attitudes, " From each according to his/her abilities, to each according to their needs ."
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Rev. MichaelRS
So, just who in particular gets the money and how much do they get?
It can't be raised beaters like CNN's Joy Reid who is always going on about reparations because both of her parents immigrated to the United States from an African country.
In fact since 1990 more blacks have immigrated from African countries than wherever brought here as slaves.
So who gets the money and how much do they get?
You don't take into consideration people who NEVER owned slaves. I have info that some of my ancestors who came to America on ships were slaves (whites) in ordered to get here. So, what about that? Shall we get reparations, too? Also, what about Indians? Let's not forget that Black people had slaves too! We all should just drop it and enjoy what time we have left on this earth.
Cindi,
Your story is extremely common for Americans. Even now the human trafficking today effectively bring slaves here. They're in debt to their trafficker. Mine were captured from Scotland and sold to the colonies. Many here have ancestors that died to make slavery illegal.
In the state of Ohio, slavery was made illegal when the state was formed in 1803. Sheriffs would hang slave hunters from the south looking for former slaves.
This ultimately isn't about so called reparations. It's about a new brand of slavery, racism, control and division.
The country must be broken before it can be conquered.
Amen!!!
You are right, Cindi!