In the world of evangelical Christianity, Robert Morris is a superstar. He is the senior pastor of Gateway Church in Fort Worth, Texas, a megachurch attended by 100,000 people each Sunday with nine campuses in Texas. He’s the author of several books, and was even courted by then-President Donald Trump to join his spiritual advisory board in 2016. Trump attended a service at Gateway Church as recently as June 2020.
Morris hosts a television show airing in 190 countries, and has a radio program broadcast in 6,800 markets nationwide. Hundreds of thousands listen to his sermon every week.
Now, in a few days, his empire has been shattered by a shocking admission. Pastor Morris recently apologized for an inappropriate sexual relationship with a child when he was in his 20s.
Morris has since resigned from Gateway Church. So far, however, he has faced no legal consequences for his actions. Not only that, but stunning details about the original allegations and their aftermath have also come to light.
All this has led critics to ask: are there two tiers of justice – one for regular people, and another for faith leaders?
The Abuse Begins
Pastor Morris admitted to "inappropriate sexual behavior with a young lady" some 35 years ago, when he was 21. Morris came clean after the victim, Cindy Clemishire, went public with the allegations.
One thing he forgot to mention? She was 12 years old.
Morris was a young preacher at Clemishire’s church, already married, and a man she viewed as “safe and friendly.” But that changed on Christmas Day, 1982, when he was staying at Clemishire’s parents’ home and covertly invited her to his room. "Never tell anyone about this because it will ruin everything,” he warned her. Clemishire says he touched her genitals and breasts. The abuse continued for another four years.
When she turned 16, Clemishire says Morris tried to escalate the abuse to sexual intercourse, though was not successful. Clemishire told a family friend, who encouraged her to tell her parents, which she did. When Morris’ wife found out, he resigned from the ministry for two years.
“My father told him he’s lucky he didn’t kill him,” Clemishire said.
The Church’s Response
After Clemishire went public with the abuse earlier this month, Morris’s Gateway Church seemingly downplayed the allegations at first, describing the abuse as a “moral failure” he’s since biblically atoned for.
“Pastor Robert has been open and forthright about a moral failure he had over 35 years ago when he was in his twenties and prior to him starting Gateway Church. He has shared publicly from the pulpit the proper biblical steps he took in his lengthy restoration process,” they wrote in a statement to Christian Post.
Morris himself also seemed to admit to then brush off the allegations, saying that "I submitted myself to the Elders of Shady Grove Church and the young lady's father. They asked me to step out of ministry and receive counseling and freedom ministry, which I did."
“It was confessed and repented of,” he said.
This response failed to satisfy critics, however. After the story blew up on social media, Morris was allowed by church elders to resign from his post. But so far, he’s faced no legal consequences for sexually abusing a 12-year-old when he was an adult.
As outrage grew, church elders seemingly had a change of heart.
"For the sake of the victim, we are thankful this situation has been exposed," they said in a subsequent statement. "We know many have been affected by this, we understand that you are hurting, and we are very sorry. It is our prayer that, in time, healing for all those affected can occur."
Morris stepped down just days later.
Shocking Emails Come to Light
Clemishire says she’s tried to get Morris to face some sort of legal consequences in the past. In 2005, she requested $50,000 from Gateway Church for counseling related to the abuse, but the church offered her $25,000 – and only on the condition she sign an NDA. Then, Morris’ attorney claimed Clemishire was partially responsible for the abuse because she was acting “flirtatious.”
A series of emails with Morris himself have since been released that contain other harrowing details. “Twenty-three years after you began destroying my life, I am still dealing with the pain and damage you caused,” Cindy Clemishire, 35 at the time, wrote to Morris in 2005. “I want some type of restitution. Pray about it and call me.”
Morris ended one reply with a legal threat.
“Debbie and I really do care for you and we sincerely want God’s best for you,” Morris wrote, referring to this wife. “My attorney advises that if I pay you any money under a threat of exposure, you could be criminally prosecuted and Debbie and I do not want that."
“Men that have over 100 counts of child molestation go to prison,” Clemishire wrote to Morris in one email. “Men who pastor churches that have over 100 counts of child molestation go to prison and pay punitive damages. You have not had to do either.”
Two Systems of Justice?
That last point has sparked widespread debate about the pastor's actions – and the lack of legal repercussions for them. Church leaders were made aware of the abuse at the time that it happened, but instead of reporting this crime to the police, they buried it and sent Morris to counseling.
Critics have not been shy about that point.
Rick Warren, founder of Saddleback Church, didn't mince words in his reaction to the news:
“[He] never should have been able to pastor again and should have gone to jail. You can repent and receive forgiveness but you have to deal with the consequences of sin,” wrote one commenter. “I feel so sorry for this victim.”
“I believe in forgiveness, but after jail time,” added another. “He should never again be in leadership of any kind in a church or school.”
Past clips of Morris speaking about age and maturity have also surfaced, raising further questions:
So far, it seems that the only repercussions Morris is facing are financial. He's now out of a job and affiliates are dropping his television and radio programs left and right.
His victim says it’s simply not enough. “I was 12 years old. I was a little girl. A very innocent little girl,” Clemishire explains. “[He] began grooming all of us to do this, which took me decades to wrap my brain around as an adult.”
What is your reaction?
165 comments
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Walter J. Holbrook
To keep from being ugly to my fellow children in Christ. All I can say is why did itt take so long for him to step down and how much is he being payed to step down.
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Walter J. Holbrook
To keep from being ugly to my fellow children in Christ. All I can say is why did itt take so long for him to step down and how much is he being payed to step down.
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Reverend Paula Copp
The gods frown on child abuse… they will have their due.
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Rev Samantha Counihan
they should still arrest that pedophile, even if its a few decades ago, the second its brought to light he shouldve been escorted to a police car and he should register as sex offender because thats what he is
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Rev Samantha Counihan
they didnt arrest him because we have a pedophile for a "president" name biden
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
you mean we 'had' one, and he's trying one more time, right, the cheeto clown felon, lock him up
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David Arthur Lewis
LIES, LIES, LIES! You should be ashamed to be spreading such FALSEHOOD! Convicted FELON Donald J. Trump is the one who used to hang out at Jeffrey Epstein's Pedophile Island, along with his old pal, Bill Clinton.
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Stacey Owens
Why are you even call a Reverend? You call the President a pedophile, as if you were there to see it happen. Christianity has become represented as a religion of hate.
The followers don't realize that Christ died for the sins of the world. He didn't die so the redeemed could condemn.
Vengeance is the Lord's. Everyone else is suppose to not lean to their own understanding. There suppose to be still and wait on God's vengeance.
We are suppose to give it to God in prayer, and after, trust the promises of God become fulfilled. We are to walk in our Faith in Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit and not by sight.
Stop the murmuring.
These thing are to take place in the world but your suppose to be not of the world.
Yet, your reacting.
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September Artrea Calhoun
The tones of discussion in this feed are what is wrong with our world today. We are a mix of believers and unbelievers. Believers are to go to the Book of Wisdom (BiBLE) and see what it has to say. Unbelievers are led by their intellect, which we as believers are instructed not to “lean on our own understanding,” yet both believers and unbelievers join forces in this very act-LEANING-ON-YOUR-OWN-UNDERSTANDING. As a former member of Gateway Church, and one who wrote a letter to the church, as a warning received in prayer, this is what’s called “The Shaking” or SEPARATION OF WHEAT FROM THE TARES” Judgement will and has begun at The House of the LORD. In recent weeks in Texas alone 2 well-known pastors have stepped down. Dr. Tony Evan’s and Pastor Robert Morris.
As a victim and witness of abuse, as a child/adolescence, as one ages and the Skelton of scar comes to life, it can wreak havoc in life. Yes, it is my responsibility to seek healing and help, however, observing a person go seemingly free and unpunished is hard to bear and can sometimes send a person backwards instead of forwards To see Robert Morris in any capacity of daily life has to be traumatic for this victim and that is something that we should all take into consideration. Imagine the most shameful years dangled before you on a level that Robert Morris has been postured to?
Now back to scripture I’m going refer to Matthew 18:6-7
“ If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!”
While I am thankful that these 2 religious leaders are leading the charge of repentance in this country, we must all remember their actions are LOW-HANGING-FRUIT, meaning easy to spot, this place of judgment, is a space for US ALL to re-examine our lives and actions daily from telling of white-lies, sharing gossip, tale-bearing, mistreatment of the poor, needy and homeless, yes, I suggest to you all that not only are These Religious Leaders in the seat of judgement, but WE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ALL ARE. So, let’s all take a beat and examine our own lives and hearts here, because no one can fill the others lamp with oil, this is a process that one can only accomplish through spending an extraordinary amount of time in prayer and fasting unto The Great Creator- YHWH.
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Dorothy Hawkins
In hopes of sharing facts instead of popular myths: the answer on whether or not more children are being abused by homosexuals vs heterosexuals, numerous studies have found that the vast majority of them are heterosexual. A simple Google search will tell you so, and the sources aren't Wikipedia.
That said, in my opinion too many leaders of all stripes have gotten away with this for way too long without any responsibility for these heinous acts. Morris should never have had another position of responsibility after the first admission.
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September Artrea Calhoun
September Artrea Calhoun's Avatar September Artrea Calhoun (Delete Comment) Comment Pending Approval Jun 26, 2024 at 09:45 am (0 votes) The tones of discussion in this feed are what is wrong with our world today. We are a mix of believers and unbelievers. Believers are to go to the Book of Wisdom (BiBLE) and see what it has to say. Unbelievers are led by their intellect, which we as believers are instructed not to “lean on our own understanding,” yet both believers and unbelievers join forces in this very act-LEANING-ON-YOUR-OWN-UNDERSTANDING. As a former member of Gateway Church, and one who wrote a letter to the church, as a warning received in prayer, this is what’s called “The Shaking” or SEPARATION OF WHEAT FROM THE TARES” Judgement will and has begun at The House of the LORD. In recent weeks in Texas alone 2 well-known pastors have stepped down. Dr. Tony Evan’s and Pastor Robert Morris.
As a victim and witness of abuse, as a child/adolescence, as one ages and the Skelton of scar comes to life, it can wreak havoc in life. Yes, it is my responsibility to seek healing and help, however, observing a person go seemingly free and unpunished is hard to bear and can sometimes send a person backwards instead of forwards To see Robert Morris in any capacity of daily life has to be traumatic for this victim and that is something that we should all take into consideration. Imagine the most shameful years dangled before you on a level that Robert Morris has been postured to?
Now back to scripture I’m going refer to Matthew 18:6-7
“ If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!”
While I am thankful that these 2 religious leaders are leading the charge of repentance in this country, we must all remember their actions are LOW-HANGING-FRUIT, meaning easy to spot, this place of judgment, is a space for US ALL to re-examine our lives and actions daily from telling of white-lies, sharing gossip, tale-bearing, mistreatment of the poor, needy and homeless, yes, I suggest to you all that not only are These Religious Leaders in the seat of judgement, but WE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ALL ARE. So, let’s all take a beat and examine our own lives and hearts here, because no one can fill the others lamp with oil, this is a process that one can only accomplish through spending an extraordinary amount of time in prayer and fasting unto The Great Creator- YHWH.
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Walter J. Holbrook
I will try to keep my composure in this. How many other victims of these crimes only need to report to the church and not law enforcement. How many young men and women face ridicule from the church and its members for speaking out on abuse by clergy. How many families will fill abandon by the church if the speak up on a loved ones behave? Where the clergy is forgiven, but the victim is persecuted and shamed by the church to defend its territory. I did not say church because it is no longer "holy ground." The evangelical church is a breeding ground for sin. Do not get me wrong. Not all, but some. This the same with any faith. And these so-called men of the cloth hide behind the church for safety. Will law enforcement get involved, NOPE. Talking of this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The victim will be shamed saying she came onto him, and other liess will suface to destroy this family..
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Ashleigh Mitchell
Why should any Deity be merciful to him? (Although it seems to me that at least one is shielding him from legal repercussions.) ⛓️💥
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James Riggle-Johnson
It’s not a deity providing him with protection, its people protecting him and making excuses.
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Pastor George Day
Ashleigh Mitchell,
You do not believe in a merciful God!
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Let's not forget the acceptable sentiment that is widely applicable; 'Thought and prayers' That about covers it all For the victim, Thoughts and prayers For the molester Thoughts and prayers Everyone look under your chair Thoughts and prayers for everyone
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Gary Stephen Lowden
Another 'Christian' leader caught committing a heinous crime and a couple of churches more than happy to cover up. Excusing him saying he prayed for forgiveness and therefore end-of-story. Then they try to blame the 12 year old victim! Criminal charges should be brought. It's things like this that are bringing down organized religion and church attendance.
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Patricia Ann Gross
The way I understand the statute of limitations in Texas with regard to child molestation is that the child has 8 years after they become an adult to press charges (not sure if it is 18 or 21 though), so this particular case is past the point where he could be charged with a criminal offense, and requires the victim come forward to press charges. My info is old, (early 2000s when I was checking on it). The only thing she could do now is file a civil suit, and there may be limitations on time for that as well. Unfortunately that's the way our justice system works.
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Russel A. Kester
Patricia, thank you for that good, factual information. I read elsewhere that she has secured the services of Billy Graham's grandson to represent her in court. May true justice prevail.
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Pastor George Day
Patricia Ann Gross,
Here in the UK, we do not have statutory limitations for child sex abuse.
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Patricia Ann Gross
This happened in the US, and unfortunately, there is here. The only crime without a statute of limitations in any state is murder. There may be some federal crimes without a statute, but I don't know what they are.
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Wilberta M. Berry
As a person who has always been employed in vocations that requires me to report abuses of any kind. I can say from over 48 years of experience predators who are employed always picks jobs that enable them to be close to their prey. These jobs are usually ones that elicits a great deal of respect and trust from society. That is why it takes years in a lot of instances for these predators to be caught.🤷🏼♀️
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ServantOfJudgement
Thank you Wilberta!!!
This has been my point the entire time. Where there are children there are predators planning.
Parents beware. Don't ignore these obvious facts.
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Michele Avery
This disgusts me and causes fear in my heart as I read this watching my 9 year old grandaughter sleep. You, sir should still be in jail yet you have never had ANY legal consequences!!! I HATE WHAT YOU DID AND WHAT YOU CLAIM TO STAND FOR!!! May GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL!!!
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Thomas R King
In his case, I think we could find a used millstone.
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Ari Joseph Bertine
Child molesters need to either go to jail or be put down like rabid animals. It does not matter how sorry he says he is, or whether he thinks he has atoned, he needs to go to jail. He is one of the worst type of predators and for him to get away with it is intolerable. Who knows how many other little girls there have been that have not reported him? Utter slime.
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ServantOfJudgement
Yep, give him a fair trial then escort him off the planet quick.
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Pastor George Day
ServantOfJudgement,
This is pure secular hared.
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James Mounts
I agree there should be 2 tiers of government. One tier for the general public, and one tier for anyone who breaches a public trust. Pastors, teachers, politicians, policemen etc. who think they are above the law should never again be free to abuse it. Jesus may forgive, the law should not.
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Pastor George Day
James Mounts,
Jesus commanded us to forgive unlimitedly.
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Beth
Evidence shows that once people start raping children, they do not stop unless society stops them. They continue to perpetrate on more children, ruining their lives. Jesus forgiveness is, "Go then and sin no more". Past history shows this does not happen.
If they really are forgiven, perhaps this is their opportunity to witness to other inmates in a secure penitentiary. There, they cannot repeat their "sin of choice".
Why did God not protect these children before it happened and prevent such abuse? Many ask for this protection, and God's answer is 'No'. I certainly would take action to stop such abuse if I witnessed it occurring! If I just closed the door, and said, "I'll punish you later." and ignored it (didn't even call the police), I would be deemed a monster. Why does God get a pass?
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John P Maher
THIS IS NOT WHAT ANY GOD WOULD TOLERATE, CLERGY ALL , GOV. ALL, EXTREMELY LARGE % ARE PERVERTED in SOME WAY, DO NOT TALK of GOD WHEN the WORLD is TOTALLY PERVERTED !
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Pastor George Day
John P Maher,
Why are you shouting?
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David Arthur Lewis
Who Would Jesus Rape?
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Russel A. Kester
If you'd made that remark about the prophet Muhammad, you'd best start running for your life. Now why is it so safe to write such a comment about the founder of one religion but not the other? Such a mystery.
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Beth
He just asked a question. Aren't pastors supposed to be a conduit to Jesus?
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Merlin
“Biblically atoned” is the excuse for redemption allowing for continual support. We are seeing this on a national scale. Forgiveness is not a “get out of jail free card”.
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Nicholas J Page
How many more of this scumbag are out there posing as ministers
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Beth
Oh, he's a "real" minister. Most of them are. It's just that some ministers have these desires that violate modern society's rules. If we could just go back to the Bible teachings, where all he would have had to do is give her father a few sheckles and "marry" her.
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ServantOfJudgement
Every single day there are news headlines involving an adult molesting, raping or killing a child. Every day.
The people doing this are: Preachers, teachers, doctors, coaches, firefighters, parents, neighbors, illegal aliens, family, psychiatrists, principals, scout masters, siblings, military personnel, politicians, judges, cashiers, waiters, homeless, lab technicians, professors, social workers, construction workers, horse trainers. I missed a few, feel free to think of more, you won't be wrong.
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James Riggle-Johnson
I'll agree with that.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Yet another pastor brutally treating a child in their church. HUNDREDS of pastors are getting caught yearly now, and, FINALLY, getting reported. Multiple dioecies have massive files of thousands of priests that have been suspected of, or even caught, abusing young girls, and young boys, in this manner. And what do the churches do half the time? They go and try to move them to another church to try to hide them, and WHEN, not if, they do it again, the church again moves them somewhere else, until it becomes clear they can't hide them, and only THEN ... "oops, our bad, we should've turned this guy in". In the meantime he likely ends up with hundreds of victims over several YEARS, while they bleat about how "Drag Queen Story Hour is EVIL!" and how being LGBTQI+ is "grooming kids" and how Trans individuals are "nothing but predators... "tink off yer daughters!!!!"
While they know who the REAL predators are.
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Dawn
So very well said!
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Beth
It's become "Another day. Another pastor accused of child rape. Another pastor convicted of child rape." It's to the point that current statistics show that the most danger to a child is in a church - not in their home (with creepy relatives and friends of those relatives), not taking candy from strangers.
The good news is that we're talking about this openly now! Without a doubt, this has been going on for hundreds, if not thousands of years. With it so publicized, perhaps it will be stopped.
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Russel A. Kester
While it is clear that this incident happened, it is also clear that it lasted four years. That's long enough for her to have been able understand what was happening. She is not as innocent as she wants to have others believe. She claimed to have had psychological counseling for years because of the incident. If she went to counseling for years it was for many more issues than just those four years. At this time, she is looking for money. Plain and simple extortion. He should be prosecuted only if she is too. While we should express sympathy for a twelve year old girl, there should be none for a woman who is now somewhere close to her late forties and is looking for money. Before all the wokies start howling, consider that Islam allows fifty year old men to marry girls younger than twelve. Also consider that boys become sexually curious and act on their curiosity by playing doctor and other things AND that girls mature faster than boys. This is more proof that feminism is wrong and that boys and girls should be kept separated until marriage. That means single sex schools and worship.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Of course, you immediately blame the victims. Ones like you ALWAYS blame the victims. And when people snarl at you for that behavior, you shout that they're "woke" and that they "are blind" and that they're Feminists / feminazis" or "soy boys".
And who gives a da** what Islam does. This isn't about Islam. You're immediately pushing for Sharia-Law type of situation where the girls are brutally punished, separated into different schools, likely forced to wear clothes with hoods so "they don't tempt the boys".
How about teaching "those boys" to control themselves? This isn't a "Boys will be boys" BS thing. This is an EVIL man using his power and influence to HURT kids.
TONS of pastors are doing this. Only reason this one's getting into the papers is because he's a fairly well known pastor who's made himself filthy rich running a MAGA... I mean MEGA-Church. I feel sorry for any daughters you have, if you have any. You likely treat them like crub and tell them that if they're beaten, abused, rped, that it's all THEIR fault, they should've been "more submissive" to avoid getting such brutal mistreatment.
Let me guess, if you've a wife, you beat her into submission, too, because females are "to be obedient at all costs" right? And if they're sexually abused, or beaten to a pulp, then it's ALL their fault no matter what age, right? After all, they're female, so it's automatically their fault in your eyes.
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Russel A. Kester
I rightly brought attention to an adult woman's unethical motivations. A 15 year old girl who continued to engage in what could be referred to as heavy petting knew what she's doing. There was nothing in the article saying that he'd threatened her or her family with violence. Why he did it, we don't know. Why she went along with it for so long, we don't know. What we do know is that she showed up 35 years later demanding money and threatening to go to the police if he didn't pay up. If she was truly upset, she would have gone to the police and taken him to court. She did neither. She just demanded money. Her claim of decades long trauma rings hollow.
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Beth
The reason we have the notion of age of consent, as well as other minimum ages for such things as getting married, voting, gambling, using alcohol or tobacco is that a minor does not yet have the development to understand the ramifications of what they are doing. At 15, she probably did not understand precisely what was happening, that she could or should say "no", believed that it was (somehow) her fault, who she could go to for help who would believe her, that it was a crime on his part, and so on.
It could well have taken her this many years to get beyond all of this, and admit, "It was done to me, when I did not really know what it was, that I could refuse, that it's wrong and illegal." It might not have anything to do with money.
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Russel A. Kester
Beth, those are all great points. But as an adult she does know and demanded money with the threat to go to the police if he didn't pay up. That is not that action of an uninformed, innocent victim. That is an act of a competent adult attempting to engage in blackmail which speaks volumes to her motive.
I can't recall if we've exchanged comments before, but I think you crafted your response well.
I am suspicious of the claim that she didn't understand what was happening as she went to his room, so it's not like he cornered her in a room in the church. I am also doubtful because we have all been in the age range when this occurred and we knew what was up. We weren't stupid. And I'm older than she is now so these issues were likely discussed in church, in school, hopefully at home, and clearly among friends as stated in the article. The simple truth is that we do not know her state of mind or her level of maturity. What we do know is that she didn't go to the police, but did try to get money.
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Sunshine DayDreamz
Baloney! This child was traumatized at a young age by a trusted male role model. She was groomed, that's why it continued. Sad how you know nothing about sexual abuse and trauma and continue to victim blame.
It isn't blackmail. Why shouldn't she get restitution? That predator ruined her innocence. What price should that be? Plus, he suffered nothing and increased his wealth and social position. He deserves the rest of his life in prison at the very least.
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Russel A. Kester
Sunshine, Here's a headline where the roles are reversed, "US Woman Charged After She Posed As 14-Year-Old To Have Sex With Teenage Boys"
And this news article, "A 32-year-old Texan teacher has faced court after admitting to having sex with a 13-year-old male student in her classroom." https://au.news.yahoo.com/teacher-admits-to-having-sex-boy-13-classroom-014000352.html
This woman was 32 not 21 and the boy's teacher! Do you feel the same sense of outrage? Should these women pay restitution and spend the rest of their lives in prison?
Our legal system has just laws in place to determine the actual harm done and the appropriate punishment. This woman should have availed herself of it to get justice. She didn't. She seems from the article to be a 50ish year old, morally corrupt woman.
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Sunshine DayDreamz
No one is arguing that the predator's gender relates to punishment. You're just changing the subject to fit your narrative that predators shouldn't be punished and the victims deserved it, wanted it or crying wolf. Baloney!
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Russel A. Kester
Not true, Sunshine, I did not say predators shouldn't be punished (a universal statement meaning all predators). In this case I doubt the claims of the now 54 year old woman. And I'm not changing the subject. It's the same subject just switched the sexes of the predator and prey. But you deflected and didn't answer the question I posed. Did you have the same sense moral of outrage? Should these women pay restitution and go to prison for the rest of their lives?
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Sunshine DayDreamz
Of course I have the same outrage regardless of gender. Perhaps if you did some investigation of current trauma research you'd discover that many SA victims do not come to terms with their abuse until decades later. And often it happens during menopause.
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Russel A. Kester
Even in this comment which was about a 13 year old boy being molested by a woman, you managed to make it about women. Your comments and perspective show you hate males of all ages. Your comments always cry that women are being oppressed but never have a positive statement about men. And no, you didn't express the same outrage. You used one sentence to excuse yourself but wrote entire paragraphs expressing your outrage when the willing victim was female. And you never said that the female teacher should even be punished. That is hypocrisy!
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Sunshine DayDreamz
This article is about a female minor being molested. My comments don't show any conclusions you've reached. There is no female teacher except the one you made up in your fake scenario. Pretty obvious that you're either a predator and certainly a defender of one. Predators of any gender who commit crimes against minors should at the very least be incarcerated and kept there for the safety of society.
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Russel A. Kester
I quoted a news article and provided a link to it. So not made up in my head or otherwise.
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester,
I think it goes down to mere biology. You can't force a man to have an erection. I wouldn't view a woman as an abuser, but a seducer.
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Pastor George Day
Sunshine DayDreamz,
I agree. He goes to prison for sex abuse. She goes to jail for blackmailing him. Fair deal.
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Robert Gagnon
Stockholm syndrome, victim becomes obsessed, even protective of a molester. There is absolutely no excuse for a 17 year old to molest a 12 year old. To say she asked for it is as disgusting as the act. To continue the relationship is a classic case of grooming. You can be sure she's not the only trophy in his closet. People like that hone their skills and make a game out of the hunt. Compensation is only fair for the initial crime. It took a long time for her to realize her white night was just one of the ravenous hoard.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, maybe. How likely is it to have been Stockholm syndrome? "Stockholm syndrome is rare; according to one FBI study, the condition occurs in about 8 percent of hostage victims.May 28, 2024" https://www.britannica.com/science/Stockholm-syndrome
When only 8% of of actual hostage victims experience Stockholm syndrome, which would strongman the case here of molestation, it is highly unlikely she experienced that condition. Remembering that she went to her father and told him furthers the likelihood that she did not suffer from Stockholm syndrome; otherwise, she wouldn't have done so. It's reasonable to conclude that she did not suffer from Stockholm syndrome.
In 35 years no other woman has come forward making a similar claim. There are likely no others.
What doesn't sit well is her saying 'give me money and we're square' 35 years later. That is disturbing.
People not in involved and with no actual knowledge of the events going off the rails, demanding life improvement is rather extreme. Both parties describe the events differently. We don't have all of the facts. Let the court decide. But this woman is now 54 years old not 12. His motives should be properly scrutinized and so should hers.
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Robert Gagnon
So Monika in her twenties was the victim of the power of a certain president Bill. She couldn't say no to his powerful persona. Yet a christian 17 year old that's treated special in her home, was tempted and taken advantage of by a 12 year old. As this progressed, (he couldn't evade her advances), he used her until something better or younger came along. Why should she be used like an old rag while he prospers. He owes her. By the way my neighbor when I was young (he was 11) was molested by a priest. When he told his parents they punished him for accusing a father(catholic) of such a thing. They beat him in front of me for bringing it up that they should do something. This went on for a few years, and no he didn't like it. The point is people take advantage of their station no matter how minor it may be. To put blame on the victim (at twelve thats what she was) Is not taking responsibility. I am so glad he lost it all rather than pay a pittance of his wealth. Bet it was less than trump paid a porn star.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, Monika was not a victim. As you wrote, she was in her twenties. We don't know how things unfolded after the initial crime. Our imaginations can run wild, but they are not facts. What happened to your young friend was wrong and criminal by both the priest and the parents. Thankfully, today there is more information and resources available to victims.
Your comment, for which I'm grateful, brings to mind an observation I've made about some of the different personality types I've noticed on the blog. A very few are driven by facts and data and keep their emotions in check so that they can think clearly as they analyze the topic. Others are much more driven by imagination and emotion. That's all okay. Thank goodness we're not all the same. What is unfortunate is that some of the emotional members engage in name calling, shaming, and other more nefarious tactics against the more rational members. It's always good to have a healthy exchange of perspectives and ideas.
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester,
I fully agree with you. Name calling is detrimental to healthy dialogues.
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Pastor George Day
Beth,
Your argument would stand had she asked for a face-to-face chat. h didn't ask for that. She asked for money. That's illegal It's called blackmailing
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Pastor George Day
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk,
What a stretch of a mental trip! You surprise me!
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
What stretch, I'm being pretty coldly honest here. What part of my statement is a "stretch"?
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Dawn
Clearly you aren’t even on the same planet in having a clue what it’s like to be abused . And by someone with position and power -NO ONE will believe you. And they threaten you, your family, etc.
You truly don’t understand so please stop. Your comment is incredibly offensive and worse-it’s a serious trigger to all of us who have been sexually abused by your gender. We’re all dealing with PTS now and the rage your comment is bringing up is hard to handle.
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Russel A. Kester
Dawn, not sure to whom you're comment was directed, but assuming it was me, here goes. First, everyone is responsibility for his or her own emotions. If one feels triggered, then they need to examine that and learn how to not be triggered. It's called being a mature adult. No one is responsible for other people's emotions and reactions to life. Second, both genders have members guilty of these acts. So speaking of 'your gender' is myopic at best and possibly disingenuous. Again, if someone feels rage at comments like mine, it's time for self examination or perhaps if the experience is too overwhelming, then professional counseling should be considered. And finally, it's usually a mistake to assume that the author of a comment hasn't experienced the topic under discussion.
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Pastor George Day
Dawn,
I was sexually abused by a man, and I think you are talking nonsense.
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Rev. BH
RAK, I'm beginning to believe your "opinions" are only meant to instigate and antagonize. How else could anyone continually express such anger and hatred in response to our mostly decent contributors. I suggest we let him rant alone, ignoring and not responding to him. We will not change his "heart".
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Russel A. Kester
BH, there was no anger or hatred in my comment, that is a mischaracterization. We are all here to engage with the articles provided and to provide comment for discussion. But by all means feel free to ignore my comments. By the way, your above comment contained nothing related to the article only a personal attack against me. You'll note, that I haven't personally attacked you or any of the other 'decent contributors.'
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Colleen McAllister
Russel A. Kester: You, sir, are the reason this continues to happen. Islam's laws do not apply here. This pastor needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent. There is no excuse, nor any reason for him to not be punished.
This is one reason why I am against mega-churches. No accountability. In a smaller church the pastor is overseen by a group of elders or Deacons and held to a higher standard. And this pastor should have been.
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Russel A. Kester
Colleen, as always your comments are stimulating and most welcomed. Islam does not apply here YET (sorry for the caps, but I don't think we have italics). It's my hope that by seeing these issues in the boarder perspective of how religions other than Christianity and cultures other than our own treat of these topics we will broaden our communal understanding of the topics, ourselves, and others. We share an ever shrinking world. Witness the UK.
I too am opposed to mega-churches, but not for different reasons. As to the topic of sexual abuse, they are actually better than smaller churches. They are incentivized by their operations to put in the financial resources to run background checks on anyone who comes into contact with vulnerable people (children, the elderly, and handicapped persons). They are also able to afford the physical barriers needed to reduce the opportunities for predators and they have a professional staff to become educated themselves on this topic and secure the teaching materials for its volunteers. Whew! How do I know? Because I was an insurance underwriting for over 35 years and specialized in provided sexual abuse insurance to churches and other nonprofits.
But I still prefer smaller churches where I can really get to know the other members as real people.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Kester this is by far your most disgusting post you’ve typed up yet. There’s nothing constructive or respectful I can say to you about this. It reeks of victim shaming, gaslighting. You using Islam as a red herring when there’s 50 year olds in this country pushing for religious child marriages is detestable. At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re just a paid Russian internet troll.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, if only I were paid for my valuable contributions. If my comment 'reeks of victim shaming,' then quote which sentence(s) commit such an odious offense. Since you say that child marriage is detestable, a statement with which I agree, I look forward to your coming to my defense the next time I write of the evils of such reprehensible tenets found within the Islamic holy writings and practices.
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Robert James Ruhnke
You’ll never get my defense, only ire, because you are no better than the Muslim fanatics you harp so much against. Leaving you to those fanatics would be giving you what you deserve.
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Russel A. Kester
Well, at least your motivations clear.
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James Riggle-Johnson
Russel, do you purposely try to say the most disturbing thing possible? This woman isn’t lashing out just to make money. You are blaming the victim. At the age of 12 – 16 you do not have the mental capacity to realize what is happening to you. This has stayed with her all of her life. Yes, she deserves money. She deserves millions from this man, his old church, and his mega church where he made millions of dollars. I don’t know what the statute of limitations is for child molestation, but the people who hid this need to be held accountable.
This woman has been scared for life because this man groomed and took advantage of her. She holds NO responsibility here.
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Russel A. Kester
James, the twelve year old was a victim when this first happened even though from the account in the article it seems she was a willing victim. She went to his room after the family we to bed. That doesn't excuse his actions and it informs us of her own willingness. After that when she was in her mid-teens, she was aware and still willing. It's amazing that the same people who think 12-16 year olds are mature enough and smart enough to undergo irreversible life altering transgender operations are not mature enough or smart enough to know what they're doing when that they engage in sexual activities. These people are inconsistent in how they view this age group. Give the other side, the conservatives, credit for consistency as they say this age group isn't mature enough or smart enough for either. There was nothing in the article to even hint that she was scared. In fact, a fair reading indicates that she was not. She didn't report any threat of violence or force. When she told her family she had its support. She wasn't stupid. She deserves no monetary damages. If she believes he should be punished by the law, then she can try the courts as there is no statute of limitations as far as I know. Here is the definition of felony sexual abuse generated by Google AI,."The definition of felony sexual abuse can vary by state, but it often includes nonconsensual sexual activity that is aggravated or involves a victim who is incapacitated or unable to consent." So, at what age was she capable of consenting? In the US it is 18. In the UK it is 16. I asked Google AI if any country has an age of consent less than 16, here's its response, "Most countries require young people to be at least 14 before having sex. But there are exceptions. Angola and the Philippines both set the age of consent at 12, which is the lowest in the world." So, throughout the world there is vast disagreement. For all of you multiculturalists, take note as this is where that belief is leading the USA..
So, if my comments seem disturbing then consider the real world from which they are generated. Perhaps the Christian morals so often attacked here will seem more palatable when seen in this light .
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Robert James Ruhnke
You sound like Milo Yiannopoulos when he was defending pedophilia, Kester. There are already Christian right wingers here now pushing for the acceptance of Child marriage in the name of Christianity. Blaming multiculturalism for young age of consent is ludicrous because many of those nations have many Christian, Muslim, or abrahamic cultural influences. The ones that don’t are still heavily patriarchal. Such as patriarchal control over women’s bodies. The right in the US want to lower the age of consent to keep women barefoot, pregnant, and totally reliant on the mercy of garbage men. You’re also using this moment to throw trans people under the bus. Gods Kester, you really don’t have any redeeming qualities, do you? You really are an unwitting agent of darkness, and once more you’ve been staring into hell’s inferno so long you think it the light of heaven.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, child marriage is not a Christian value. Once again you are confusing Christianity and Islam.
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Robert James Ruhnke
They’re both abrahamic religions which draw from the same cultural pools and regions. Mary was estimated to be 12 or so when she had Jesus. In the Old Testament, virgin girls were spoils of war, married to their captors - a form of legalized pedophilia. The Bible has no minimum age for marriage. It was typical for old, wealthy men to marry pubescent girls - they could pay the dowry. This was glossed over in my Christian upbringing. You extol “Biblical values” when in fact the Bible supports child marriage and human trafficking. Not to mention holy war (jihad), slavery, and the murder of non followers. Then why are so many right wing Christians defending the practice when it’s brought to the chopping block.
Truly Educate yourself on these topics. Don’t just regurgitate the echo chamber you were brainwashed in.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, ancient Middle Eastern societies had cultural practices we objective to today. There's no news there. But you err when you claim that Christians are defending those same practices today. Islam, now there you have a case to make, but not Christianity.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Yes Christianity, every time it comes up to make child marriage illegal, a conservative Christian jumps to its defense. Why isn’t there a national ban on child marriage? Islam is 5000 miles away, and many of the of number of Muslims in the US side with right wing Christians and their values. I have a case with both religions. They both have right adherents who want young brides accessible to older men. We have ancient practices today which go back that far, and many Christian right wingers with project 2025 want to bring back many of the practices that have been done away with. Like making being gay a punishable crime again. Seriously deflecting and just be wrong.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, while child marriages do still occur in the US, it is also the case that "[m]ost were girls wed to adult men an average of four years older." https://www.unchainedatlast.org/united-states-child-marriage-problem-study-findings-april-2021
Per Google AI, during the 1700s in the US, "[t]he average age of marriage in the United States varied by class and gender in the 18th century: Middle-to-upper class white women: Typically married around age 22 Middle-to-upper class white men: Typically married around age 26" Again, an age difference of about four years. So the difference in ages has been rather constant for around 300 years in the US. The most likely explanation is that girls mature faster than boys so that a young man four years older than a young woman are pretty much equal in actual emotional and psychological maturity. "
Per Google AI, "[a]ccording to data from 2000–2015, 67% of children who were victims of child marriage in the United States were 17 years old, 29% were 16, and 4% were 15. Less than 1% were 14 and under, with 51 cases of 13-year-olds and 6 cases of 12-year-olds getting married." So, 98 - 99% were adolescent teenages.
Your portrayal of child marriages that do happen in the US as dirty 50-year old men forcing a prepubescent child into marriage simply paints the wrong picture. Of those that do occur, the most likely reason is that the two participants were expecting a child.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Of course you’re defending child marriage. Typical.
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Pastor George Day
Robert James Ruhnke,
The slavery Paul talks about in the New Testament is not the sort of slavery you have in mind. It was a form of rehabilitation while serving a sentence.
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James Riggle-Johnson
First of all, Russel, I nor anyone in this chat has said it’s okay to perform transition surgeries on a minor. Second, you don’t seem to know the phycological manipulation that goes into child molestation that let’s the perpetrator to do it for years. Have you ever been the victim of such manipulation?
Third, I don’t know the laws of Texas in the 80s regarding child molestation. I know from other states dealing with the Catholic church that there were statues of limitations for when charges could be filed. Just because this woman was abused for 4 years does not mean she enjoyed it. It is evil to suggest such a thing. You have no idea what was going on in her mind regarding the abuse. Many predators convince the child it’s okay. You demean every victim of child abuse when you claim one of them enjoyed it.
Do you think a rape victim enjoyed it just because the didn’t report it for years? That’s just wrong. It’s discusting.
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Russel A. Kester
James, there's a correction to be made to your comment. I never said that she enjoyed anything. You just pulled that out of thin air. What I did write was that she willingly went to his room at night after the family had gone to bed as stated in the article. But none of that was the main point, which was the fact that she waited 35 years together with her previous actions (such as not going to the police at 16 when she told her father) attests to her true motivations today in demanding money as a 50-ish year old woman.
As for my comment that the same group of people who find children incapable of making important, even life altering, decisions in one case but deny such agency in another is true. We know it's true because we read about it and these operations have been performed. We also know that there are ministers on this blog who have written in support of 'gender-affirming care' and staunchly so. These surgeries are included in 'gender-affirming care.' So, yes, we have ministers here who have supported it. Are these the same persons? Since no one on the conservatives side supports it, that leaves the progressive crowd. And who clamored the loudest on this blog with vehement hatred in reaction to this article? Yup, the progressive crowd. How do I know they're the same people? It's the same names. So, I think my statement is sound. If the juxtaposition of these two ideas is uncomfortable, it's probably because together they show the compartmentalized thinking of progressives which leads to contradictory beliefs. This article is an opportunity to discern such discrepancies in one's thinking.
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Robert James Ruhnke
They don’t get surgeries till they’re 18 years. 16 with years of counseling and consent of parents. Gender affirming care is about self determination, and how a person perceived themselves. The woman in that situation was actually being groomed. An outside influence trying exert a power dynamic on someone who is their junior. An account of actual grooming, by one of your comrades no less, is right in your face and you’re still trying to throw trans people under the bus. That’s sad. The parents probably knew and convinced themselves it was beneficial in some sick way. These churches are like that more than they aren’t. I say this because he’s not the first powerful Christian figure to use their power to influence and abuse people. She’s not in it for the money, that’s your reckless and ridiculous projection and poor attempt at assassinating her character.
The reason why so many victims of SA and R*pe don’t come forward is because of the treatment they receive when being questioned by police. In many ways the mistreatment of the victim (the way you’re talking now) makes them relive that trauma. Theres also another part of the power dynamic to consider between the pastor and his victim, had she of gone forward there’s a chance she and her family would have been targeted and mistreated by the congregation at the behest of the pastor. These situations aren’t cut and dry. She is trying to hold him accountable for his actions. Nothing more. Once more Kester you demonstrate misogyny, transphobia, internalized homophobia, xenophobia, gaslighting, and your ability of weak deflection.
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Daniel Gray
Robert just Stop. Even the head of the health and safety (HHS) department who is a transvestite himself has been pushing for the age limits to be removed so a 3 year old can get this treatment.
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Robert James Ruhnke
No she hasn’t, Grey. That’s just more made up news max propaganda.
The only actual surgeries I’ve read about were done at the insistence of the parents to correct a physical complication with an intersex situation. The individuals later developed in ways the parents didn’t expect.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, the first paragraph of your comment has been refute by past conversations wherein I quoted chapter and verse that you are simply wrong. Conversations you always conveniently forget ever took place. I do hope your memory improves with time.
There was a time when your concerns about victims being blamed had merit. That is not the case today.
When this was revealed to her father by her, the father spoke with the young man (as he was only as young man at the time) who confessed to him. If the girl had gone to the police at that time there would have been both her statement and her father's. And it seems likely the boy would have confessed to the police too. Too many ministers here seem to have a mental image of a 12 year old girl and a powerful, 60-ish year old church pastor. Not the case.
She had already held him accountable for his actions when he confessed to her father, confessed to his church (after which he ceased being a pastor for two years), and apologized to her. If she felt that was not enough, she could have gone to the police which she did not do. So, no, this was not about holding him accountable.
Again you engaged in a personal attack at the end of your comment which you do in every comment to me. Doing so does not further the conversation, and it does not provide any other useful information about the topic of the article.
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Robert James Ruhnke
No Kester, I don’t forget because you’re wrong in your assessment of trans people on every topic you’ve brought up misinformation with. Those aren’t attacks Kester, nor are they personal, but descriptors of your atrocious fallacy ridden arguments. A personal attack would be suggesting that you’re a child predator with the way you attack this predator’s victim with insinuations and feeble attempts at assassinating her character. Which I haven’t, though I wonder sometimes why you’re so obsessed with trans people that you bring them up on topics which have nothing to do with them.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, as I already wrote to James, I demonstrated the inconsistency in the thinking of those professing woke ideologies when they believe that children aged 12 - 16 are mature and smart enough to make decisions that will change their lives for the rest of their lives but then simultaneously deny such agency when the issue is sex. Such thinking is inconsistent. That was the point of that comparison.
As I wrote above I've provided you with citations in past comments showing that kids in this age range are getting these surgeries and that they are not getting years of counseling as you claim. That information is also in the Cass Report.
The topic of transgenderism is discussed often because it is a big topic for our nation and many, many other countries at this time. Therefore, your questioning why I write about it using a slanted word like 'obsessed' is a personal attack.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, your are wrong. Here's why. You wrote, "Once more Kester you demonstrate ...." Using the personal pronoun 'you' means that you are describing my personal characteristics. You claimed they were "of your atrocious fallacy ridden arguments." Had that been true you would have written, 'Your argument is ...." You have shared that you have a degree in Sociology so your rhetorical skills are above average and you know the difference I just clarified. It was an attempt to call me those things in a way you hoped I wouldn't notice or that you could justify as attacking my argument and not me. Those terms were applied to me as I've shown and thus were a personal attack.
As to the most recent comment, you did it again. Only this time you used the verbage of "A personal attack would be suggesting" as a cover to say "you’re a child predator with the way you attack this predator’s victim." In math we all learned that if every element in group A is also an element in group B, then the two groups are identical. And that is what you showed with your words.
You are not stupid. You are highly educated and know what you're doing. Please stop. Attack my arguments, great. That's how constructive conversations are done. But attacking me is not engaging in constructive conversation..
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester,
Eloquently said!
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Pastor George Day
Russel A. Kester,
They just just reason out of convenience! Wel said!
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Pastor George Day
James Riggle-Johnson,
and yet she chose the blackmailing route. That makes her no victim. Blackmailing is an offense punishable by law.
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ServantOfJudgement
What I find curious, a piece of the puzzle that's missing is the victims father and mother.
Why didn't they press charges all those years ago? If the father allegedly contemplated killing the man I'd think pressing charges would be the next best thing. But nothing.
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James Riggle-Johnson
I couldn’t agree more.
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Seems at least one 'member' here is doing their very best as an apologist for child molesters. Here we have someone who claims to know why the young girl allowed the molestation to go on for as long as it did. And his conclusion...it was mutual. So again a kkkristofascist is out there victim blaming/shaming and only/barely giving an offhand 'bad preacher the molester...don't let it happen again'.
Clearly this member's idea of religion in school as a means to avoid these kind of 'incidents' is about as reliable as his own conclusions about religion and pedophilia. In fact it reads as a very subtle, sotto voce pass for the minister.
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Russel A. Kester
JJ, someone has written multiple times that no one knows why the girl who soon became a young teen allowed the activities to continue. In fact, that was the very question someone has asked.
Yes, proper religious instruction does ensure that both boys and girls understand that the church teaches these actions are sins. So yes, both boys and girls know about bad men or women and about stranger danger.
Someone else seems to read into articles and comments things that do not exist. Otherwise that someone else would provide quotes not innuendos.
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Robert James Ruhnke
Lots of psychologists and people who’ve studied psychology can tell you exactly why she didn’t go forward. It’s about the power dynamics between predator and victim. It’s about our society and how we treat female victims. It’s many things you’re undermining or choosing to ignore. Amazing how you have so much in common with predator, Kester.
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Russel A. Kester
Robert, any power dynamics which might have existed between these two persons disappeared as soon as her father and the church were informed. Your perspective on how society handles cases like this is stuck somewhere back in the dark ages.
As for your comment that I have anything in common with this or any other predator, it was a personal and odious attack of the worst kind. I do not understand why your comment was allowed to be published containing that sentence.
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James Riggle-Johnson
PS... this man's website is still up. He's still making money off his podcasts and books.
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Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox
I find this so very amusing! Here we have another old white "christian pastor" molesting a little girl and you know what? He is not transgender nor is he a Drag artist! Nope. He is the absolute profile of a child molestor. I wish there really was a god and a hell he could burn in for eternity but alas...
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Alexander Arends
I don't find anthing amusing about this at all,
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Pastor George Day
Elizabeth Jane Erbe Wilcox,
There is a hell, but he has repented. Chances are you won't see him there :-)
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Matthew Mastrogiovanni
Christianity continuously proves itself to be an evil death-cult, yet we allow it to exist. Why?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Freedom to worship as people wish to worship. It's as ancient as most other religions are. Religion is not a BAD thing, but it's the individuals using it to brutally control and harm others that causes the bad within it.
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Alexander Arends
You are exactly right. The idea that non-religious people are less likely to commit incestuous relationships is most likely untrue.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
What does incest have to do with this situation?
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Wrong! Religion has been the bane of humanity for millennia! Exactly what has it done for humanity as a whole? Wars, power, hatred, persecution, murder, genocide, hypocrisy, theft, indoctrination, to name just a few, all in made up non existent entities to peddle to the gullible ignorant masses!
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Pastor George Day
Geoffrey C. Olive,
Christianity is a message! If Rome made it an empire and Aerica made it a business, that's not God's fault!
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Dawn
It’s not just Christianity. The way the US treats religion is why these issues exist. It offers lots of money and power-and protection to the criminal as they hide behind the Constitution.
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Stacey Owens
What people don't understand, Christianity is now a religion of offerings and profit. Christians are giving Jesus Christ a bad name. It's a MAGA religon of works of serve. In other words, its another gosple of Christ. This other gosple believes in the works of offering and God will bless you instead of the real gosple of Jesus Christ being the Lord of the believers life. Which means, the believer is a living sacrifice, holy and exceptible unto God. The exceptibleness is Christ in you, he is the hope of glory.
As it is written, Know you not that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ypu are.
The scripture states, you as a believer are the church and the spirit is God and we are the servents in Christ.
Jesus said, “Do you see all these (MAGA Church) buildings ? I tell you the truth, they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!” Then he said," let no man deceive you". If its not for Jesus it aginst him. Jesus didn't preach denomination, He preached salvation declaring the word was within him and that word was God.
Instead, the denomination became the Christs. The congregation supported the pastors of these denominations. The message, was sin and fear of being condemned. The love part, was the offering and becoming saved.
Not one pastor could surrender to Jesus Christ totally, they became thieve and robbers. They didn't show the glory of God to declare Jesus Christ within themselves and him crusified. Not one could become a living sacrifice,
Now that would prove God sent the Son by the word of their mouth and the brightnes of the holy spirit.
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Geoffrey C. Olive
Nonsense!
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Stacey Owens
Religion: your personal knowledge of good and evil.
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Pastor George Day
Stacey Owens,
That was the lie Eve believed! :-)
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Pastor George Day
Stacey Owens,
You are well-intentioned, but you quote things out of context with blurred meanings.
The Church is the Third Temple that will last forever. That is why Jesus said the building would come down. Denominationalism is merely about government and theology. Denominations existed at the time of Christ also - he was an Essenes, crucified by the Pharisees and Sadducees. He started a new denomination called The Way.
Document yourself a bit better :-)
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Stacey Owens
He didn't start a new denomination by the way. The Way, the Truth, and the Life is Jesus Christ. Doesn't it make sense that the temple that comes down from heaven would be Christ, the kingdom of God, the life? As John the baptist said, "he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire."
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Pastor George Day
Stacey Owens,
Bingo!
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Lady Mutt Cat
Pesky little thing called the First Amendment.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Something MAGAs use both as a kudgel to try to scream about their "freedoms", and to try to use as an excuse to ram THEIR religion down people's throats, but also are trying desperately to try to rip out from under any who refuse to do things THEIR way.
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Pastor George Day
Matthew Mastrogiovanni,
What does the whole tree have to do with a few rotten apples?
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Rev. BH
Mega-Churches elevate their pastors with money, fame and power, a combination of forces opening the door to many forms of abuse. Hillsong was an even worse example. Care to add a few?
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John Kingsley Price II
Bishop Eddie Long, Reverend Henry Lyons, Juanita Bynum, Benny Hinn, Paula White, Jimmy Swaggart, Pastor Douglass Goodman, Arch Bishop Earl Paulk, Creflo Dollar, Pastor Joe Barron.
Just to name a few.
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ServantOfJudgement
Yea, first time I saw the Hillsong preacher he was hanging with Justin Bieber. The guy put of mega phoney vibes to me. Like super duper phoney car salesman vibes. Some years later we see he's a freaky creep.
Industrial churches gots money to make. Some to the point of cutting the utter of to get the milk. Even so the partitioners are beguiled and will defend to the end.
Got a local industrial church where the preaching demon got caught with his pants down in Walmart doing the asexual thing a couple times, DWI a couple times and his followers will not, WILL NOT stop defending him.
Christians beware!
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Pink Clover
Hillsong was ... Hillsong still is.
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Pastor George Day
Pink Clover,
The phony leaders resigned. The new leaders have repented and changed direction. Bryan Houston is starting a new church online... all telling!
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Pastor George Day
Rev. BH,
I used to be a member of Hillsong. I have plenty of stories to share, besides what's come out publicly!
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Joe Stutler
Ant they throw conniptions about rainbows and performers reading to children....... 🖤🤎❤️🧡💛💚💙💜🩶🤍
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ServantOfJudgement
I wonder why drag queens don't do much performing in elderly rest homes unless there's a large lgbtqia++ presence like out west.
Our Lord told us why this is. He says train them up when their young. They got a few drag queen youth councilors in hot water for child molestation here and there across the country.
I wonder what color of tears the child cried when the extremely inclusive and harmless drag queen abused them. I'm guessing blue.
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Dr. Zerpersande, NSC
You know the color…the same was when a religiously delusional person abuses them.
But just teaching religious nonsense to a child is abuse. But it’s accepted because religious belief is a socially accepted form of insanity. Thing is that you have to teach the ‘locally accepted’ form of insanity. I’m with Forrest… stupid is as stupid does.
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ServantOfJudgement
Coming from a guy that thinks he was once a funky sea monkey, I'll weigh your opinions of our origins accordingly Dr z.
I wonder if the cops would come to my house if my kid was forced to believe and behave like a monkey. I know they would come, that's literally child abuse.
Now, back on topic. One day I'll get through the frothy mouthed antichrists....
Read this slow and twice: Where there are children, there are predators in the shadows. One merely needs to search his heart to know I'm right. You'd be wise to heed my warning if you've got children.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
No one believes they were a "funky sea monkey". And what does Evolution have to do with yet ANOTHER priest, one of thousands, who've been caught abusing kids.
Oh, btw, there is TONS of evidence for Evolution. Not so much any other claim about how life came to be.
Looks like someone is trying to throw a red-herring into the convo to try to steer it away from the fact a STRAIGHT priest, one, again, of thousands, have been caught hurting kids.
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Pastor George Day
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk,
What you claim as evidence for evolution are mere scientific conjectures.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
George, evolutionary progression is actually 100% scientific fact and it's been confirmed by mountains of evidence and scientific studies. The consensus is clear. It's not conjecture at all.
You can see it fully through the fossil records, and you can actually see it in action even today through the changing of various species. Speciation occurs when an off-shoot from one species diversifies to the point it is no longer, even at the genetic level, the same as others of that species.
For example, Great Apes, Monkeys, and Humans are all related in our ancestry. However, humans branched off in one direction, while our primate cousins branched off in a different direction. But if you follow the evolutionary paths back through the fossil record, there comes a point where humans and great apes came from the same type of ancestor. This is why they call Great Apes the "cousins" to the human race.
You see such diversification in plantlife, too. Did you know that Cabbage, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Kohlrabi, Brussel Sprouts, etc, all were bred from the wild mustard plant? The type of species that were wanted, i.e. Brussel sprouts or Broccoli, depended on what was most focused on when it came to breeding the plants. You cannot cross-breed brussel sprouts with Kohlrabi because they are two completely different species of plants now. That is how diversification works.
But let's look at a massive difference between two animals that are, actually, very closely related. The Etendeka - aka the elephant shrew, and the massive African Elephants. Believe it or not, these two animals are genetically related. They share common ancestors. While the african elephants branched off to become the massive animals we know today, the shrews linage branched off to evolve into a very tiny animal.
But if that still isn't enough, you can look into the fossil record at the massive sea-mammals such as whales and porpoises. At one point, these animals had left the sea and had become land-dwelling. Then, over time, they went back to the sea. There was an obvious intermediate stage that made them look more like the walruses, seals, and sea-lions we're used to seeing, before they fully evolved and adapted to an oceanic life. And yet, they're still mammals. They breath air and they lactate to feed their young.
So no, it's not scientific conjecture at all.
ROFL But again, you try to throw a red herring in to try to change the topic. Does the fact that pedophile priests finally being brought to light so people can SEE the priesthood for what it's become bug you?
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Donald G Magel
Wow! Such ignorance.
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James Riggle-Johnson
I’ve been searching for any story or just one story of a Drag Queen abusing a child and haven’t found one. The only stories are adults saying Drag Queen Story Hour is abusive. That’s an opinion. It’s not a fact. Stop spreading the true fake news and let’s get back to this pastor who molested a 12 year old girl for 4 years. Then used it as a redemption story of straying on his marriage, but he left out she was 12.
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ServantOfJudgement
Come on James, I said a few across the country and there are a few across the country. I found four right away. You think putting a dress on with neon lipstick and sparkly eyeshadow makes men immune to crimes of lust?
I've made my opinion of preachers that molest crystal clear. Escort them off the planet and penalize his protectors publicly and as harshly as the stomach will allow.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
He's right, not a single drag queen has been known to harm kids. Esp. not ones doing volunteer events like Drag Story hour. PRIESTS, on the other hand.....
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James Riggle-Johnson
Where?
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Where, what?
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James Riggle-Johnson
I was asking SOJ where he found a story about drag queens.
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Pastor George Day
ServantOfJudgement,
Entertaining children isn't a crime. Molesting them is!
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Pastor George Day
James Riggle-Johnson,
Well said!
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Angella Barnaby
This is a travesty first and foremost... the fact this man is still standing free speaking to anyone through the mouth that admitted these atrocities is beside me. The moment this man admitted 1 act of inappropriate behavior with an under age minor charges should have been filed and I don't care who it is or how long ago it was... end of story!
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Rev. Dr. Father JJ
Another instance of a conservative "man of god" grooming yet another child to molest. This is what many straight men do, using their positions of authority and trust, where they take their time grooming a child, getting them comfortable being around them before they finally attempt to sexually molest the child.
While the conservative and kkkristofascists attempt to accuse gay men of 'grooming' boy to molest, it's almost always the married, straight, authoritative male that turns out to be the pedophile. Caster aspersions on the gay community is the way they are able to deflect attention from themselves.
I would not be at all surprised to see a few more young girls come out about run-ins with the reverend pedophile. I don't believe a pedophile tries to assault a child only once. And the bit about confessing...who is he blaming, the devil made him do it?
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Robert James Ruhnke
Every conservative accusation, projection, or pointing of fingers is a confession.
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ServantOfJudgement
It's fascinating that the gay community says a priest that molests a boy isn't gay while a priest that molests a girl is straight. I'm not able to crunch the numbers to come to your conclusion without deluding myself.
Anywhere you find children you'll find pedophiles. It's not exclusive to any group or organization. You'll never exhaust cases of teachers, priests, daycare workers, coaches, doctors, dentists, parents, policemen, fire fighters babysitters, cub masters, pilots, servicemen, truck drivers and plain ole creeps of molesting children. I just read an article about some gay big wig of some lgbtqia++ group got stung for trying to pedo a boy. I guess you'd call him a MAP. Soon you'll have he lgbt2qia++map logo to whip up, pick some funky colors for their flag.
It's as you said, any pedo in a position of power will exercise that position against children. That part you're on the money with. Ignoring your own church's pedophiles is the same as the Catholic church ignoring theirs. Our Lord Jesus The Christ says we are prone to judging in hypocrisy, faith in Jesus not required.
Increase the punishment of pedophiles to a publicized lethal level and you'll make a dent on the problem. Legally torch those who protect them and you'll get good results.
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James Riggle-Johnson
It’s not about gender when a pedophile molests a child, it is about power and control. The sex doesn’t always matter with many of them. Either way, you’re right. They make sure they’re in a position that brings them close to children. We need to be more aware of the people around children. Be mindful.
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John R Maynard
Absolutely!!
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
However, just because a person is LGBTQ+ does NOT automatically mean they're a pedophile like Alt-Right and Religious zealots constantly scream.
And, btw, those "funky colors" have nothing to do with this priest. Those colors are a representation of all the diverse individuals who are LGBTQ+ and so one guy who WAS such got caught doing such things. How many STRAIGHT individuals, esp. male priests, have gone after young girls as well as young boys?
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ServantOfJudgement
Bridget, I fully agree with you, being gay is not connected with pedophilia. I don't have an issue with someone's sexual preference nor do I think poorly of a person because of it assuming it's all on the up and up.
I use drastic comparisons to bring this to light when only christian preachers are attacked while ignoring the many other sources of pedophiles. Im trying to turn everyone's attention to the source of the problem which is much greater than any church. I recognize that churches protect predators as to schools and many other organizations. Even family will. I've made it clear what I feel we should do with these predators and those who protect them.
Consider this, when weeding a garden we don't just pull one type of weed and ignore the rest. We pull them all or we'll lose the whole thing to the weeds.
The punishment must be terrible and absolute no matter if it's a cashier, priest or president.
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Russel A. Kester
SOJ, I agree with your efforts to have everyone see the problem to its full extent. I also think that some people do not wish to do so. They wish to point out the wrongs of a specific group as it furthers their narratives about that group and dismiss wrongs done by those within groups with which they identify because that would tend to discredit their narratives. But keep up the good fight.
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Daniel Gray
It makes no difference what religion you are. We have just as many Muslums who go after young boys and girls as we do members of the Jewish faith and the Christian faith, and dont even get me started on the harems that Atheists and pagan religions have done to children, Far as I am concerned, if you go after a child you should be dealt with swiftly and fataly.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
Hate to burst your bubbles, but pagans and atheists don't have "Harems". And, btw, Atheism is NOT a religion. They do not believe any god or gods, or any higher deity at all. A-Theist - aka No Religion. A Theist - a person who worships a religion. See how that works?
And, also, most pagans don't have polygamist weddings. Polygamy tends to be a Christian tradition, or a Baptist one, not a pagan one. Though some pagan traditions do allow for multiple spouses, it's never with anyone underaged. All pagans, at least the true pagans, reject such behaviors.
Unlike the Christian faith, where if their pastors are caught doing that, they simply shunt them from church to church, where they keep up such behavior, until the scandal grows so huge that they can't hide it anymore and they know the "jig is up" and then, only because they're forced to do so, do they denounce the individual.
As far as Muslims? Again, same as with the Christians, though it's MORE rare in their religion. Yes I'm aware of what happens to young girls under Sharia laws in the nations that are under the rule of hardliner zealots. In truth that is more about deliberately terrorizing and controlling the women of their society than it is anything to do with their actual religion.
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Pastor George Day
Bridget Kielas-Fecyk,
A theist (by definition) is someone who believes there is a god or gods. It's not necessarily a reference to religion.
As for Christian polygamy, I'm not sure what planet yo're on! Probably you confuse Baptists with Mormons - another thread of its own!
Pagans are known for orgiastic sexual rituals, s again I'm not sure which plane we are talking about.
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Bridget Kielas-Fecyk
You're separating a and theist. A theist is, indeed, a person who believes there is a god or gods. An atheist is someone who does not believe in any god or gods, or in any higher power. An individual can be an atheist, and they can be a theist. I know that sounds odd, but it depends where the space is when that comes into play.
For example, many who believe that there is a higher power, but not, necessarily, in any specific god, is an agnostic. An individual who's a theist is, as you stated, who believes there is a god.
An atheist, again, notice no space between a and theist, believes there is no god or higher power. Being an atheist is not a religion. They have no religion. I know, I'm married to an atheist.
I'm talking of this plane of existence. I'm talking of reality here. While some rituals do include sex, and keep in mind it's sexual between Consenting Adults, not the whole "Hedonistic ritually harming of kids" like so many "good christians" try to accuse us of, but that does not mean that pagans are, in general, polygamists.
You see polygamy more in the Christian faiths with multiple wives, almost never multiple husbands, than you do the Pagan beliefs. People think we're all about wild orgies, but the fact is, the vast majority of all of our rituals are not like that at all.
I'm sure you'll say "But that's the common knowledge." But the fact is, the "common knowledge" about pagans is often very, very wrong this time. I know, I broke away from the Christian - to be specific Roman Catholic" church at age 15 and have been staunchly pagan since. And I'm now 50.
I'm curious, why would you think being an atheist means you still believe in a god or gods? And why would you think pagan rituals all involve wild orgies?
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Robert James Ruhnke
SOJ, yourself are amongst others who are the most regressive of voices of the blog. Every accusation you push is just a confession of what the conservative and the maga cult are going push and strive for against the groups you’re trying to undermine and throw and under the bus.
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Pastor George Day
Another evangelical megachurch pedo has been outed!
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I’m just a Faithful believer in JESUS CHRIST but I believe that I was made in Gods image by GOD. And it seems like there are a lot of people who are just trying really hard not to discuss the situation with the Minister that admitted to abusing a child of GOD and is not facing any consequences from that I may go to hell for this but I’m sure there is a lot more fathers out there that would be willing to do that to protect any child from such a POS pretending to be a servant of the GOD and JESUS CHRIST that I was raised to believe in and love with respect.I really believe that GOD will be His final judgement