Kentucky may soon become the first state in the country without a single abortion clinic. Nearly overnight, the city of Louisville, Kentucky has transformed into ground zero for the fight over abortion. Christian fundamentalists have descended upon the EMW Women's Surgical Center the state's only abortion provider demanding the clinic be shut down.
Tensions are mounting, and police had to be called in to keep the peace. A "buffer zone" has also been set up to prevent protestors from blocking entrance to the clinic.
The Frontlines
Outside the clinic, tensions are high. Protesters have lined up around the entrance, displaying graphic signs and harassing women as they try to go inside. These Bible-emboldened activists have continued to gather, day in and day out, showering visitors with angry chants and threats of eternal damnation should they go through with an abortion. "You're in jeopardy of losing your soul this morning," protesters can be heard saying.
However, supporters of the clinic and the members of the pro-choice community are not taking this lying down. Lined up across from the anti-abortion folks are groups of "clinic escorts", volunteers who help women get from their cars to the clinic and vice versa. Donning bright vests and working in teams, they've created a sort of vanguard to shield patients from the protestors' vitriol.
There's another twist: Christian activists, apparently not content protesting outside the clinic itself, are now planning to follow the doctors home and picket at their places of residence.
Operation Save America
The Christian group organizing the protest calls itself "Operation Save America," and is active in many major cities across the country. A mission statement from the group's website reads:
"As the Church changes its heart toward unborn children, God Himself will hear from heaven, forgive our sin, and bring healing to our land. We believe that Jesus Christ is the only answer to the abortion holocaust."
The Terrorists vs. The Heathens
That headline might seem a little extreme, but the insults really are flying between the two groups. During tense demonstrations this week, abortion-rights activists called Operation Save America "a right-wing Christian hate group," insisting that "they are the American Taliban."
In response, anti-abortion protesters called their opponents "fornicators" who sanction the killing of innocent unborn being. According the Christian group, pro-choice people must repent or face the consequences.
A Hostile Governor
Operation Save American has one thing their opponents don't: a powerful ally in politics. The current Kentucky governor, Matt Bevin, has consistently taken a strong anti-abortion stance. Under his direction, the state government has instituted even stricter requirements for abortion clinics and stepped up enforcement.
On several occasions, government officials have threatened to shut down the EMW clinic entirely, claiming they were not in compliance with the rules. The clinic insists that their supposed "infractions" were really just small technicalities, and that Kentucky officials are fishing for reasons to close their doors.
So, although abortion is technically legal in the United States, it's no stretch of the imagination to think that Kentucky may soon be the first abortion-free state in the country. While this outcome would no doubt please the anti-abortion camp, it might not have the effect they are intending history shows that outlawing abortion doesn't prevent it from happening, it simply pushes it into the shadows and makes the procedure more dangerous.
No End in Sight
If these latest altercations underscore anything, it's that our society is as far apart on the issue abortion than ever before. On one side, you have folks who believe with all their hearts that abortion is fundamentally wrong a sin of the highest order. On the other side sit people who think that's a bunch of baloney; they steadfastly support a woman's right to choose for herself how to deal with a pregnancy.
Is there any way to reconcile these polar-opposite points of view?
197 comments
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Messenger of the way
To add to the problems of the world is against scripture, man will do what man does. We the are called can do very little to ix. We must pray, have faith, reach out to them near us. Others will work on issue's near them! Love heals all problems. Love will be that fix it ticket. Love is what we are told to do. Our Heavenly Father is pure.
LOVE!
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Tom
What ever happened to the idea that if you do not approve of abortion, you should not get one? Can we stop telling others what our God says they should do? Is that not a bit presumptuous? Especially presumptuous if the person you are preaching to does not share your belief. Ist Cor 5:11-12 says, "Who am I to judge? Do we not judge those who are within our church? God will judge those who are without our church. In the meantime, get rid of the evil doers among you." That would include the vainglorious and judgemental. I believe Paul was saying, "Mind your own business, Church." I have been going to church since I was a child over 70 years ago and have never heard a sermon preached on this verse. I asked why that was one time and was told that preachers consider this a UPS...an Unpopular Pulpit Subject along with others on divorce and adultery. A preacher once said, "I don't mind preaching to the congregation, but I am not going to get away with preaching about them and there are a lot of them about whom I could preach. My job is to keep the collection plates full, a roof on the building, the lights on and the doors open. I'll lose parishioners if I start preaching too much truth to power." I suppose that is called pastoral impotency. Shame on Kentucky, they have not read the whole book.
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John Owens
Tom, with all due respect, this is not like judging another person's fashion sense, or even their moral habits ,which we can and SHOULD judge, with respect to whether WE want to be involved, or our children to be involved, but not beyond that. This is about human life. What most humans consider NORMAL is that we should not WATCH others be killed senselessly and mercilessly and do or say nothing. If you SAW someone pulling a baby apart, and did nothing because YOU DON'T WANT TO JUDGE their behavior, you would be the same as a willing participant in that murder. This is how many people see abortion on demand, and YOU CANNOT JUDGE THEM HARSHLY FOR SEEING IT THAT WAY. If you think you can actually come up with a reasonable and rational explanation why they should NOT see it that way, perhaps you could share it with those of us who are so backward and ignorant that we care more about little innocent babies unrelated to us than you do.
What I see is presumptuous, is your argument that Christians have no business NOT approving and are being judgmental when they try to get laws passed to protect human life. Isn't that why we have traffic laws? To protect human life? Who are we to judge how others drive? Don't gun-grabbers claim to want to protect human life? Who are they to judge people who like to shoot? If they don't want to shoot, they don't have to. Didn't the pro-abortionists get a law passed to ALLOW abortion? Who were they to JUDGE those who did not believe in abortion?
This should not even be a religious issue. Absolute pagans and atheists should know that abortion AS IT IS BEING PRACTICED is cruel and evil and genocidal. I think the Kentuckians have read the book maybe a little more than you have, although reading alone is not good enough.
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John Maher
YOU ARE WITNESS to THAT BIBLE QUOTING BOOGER OWINS, READING and COMPREHENSION are TWO DISTINCT ENTITIES, @ LEAST on this BLOG BOOGER you WILL be PRESENTED with SOME KNOWLEDGE BUTT what YOU DO WITH SAME REMAINS a MYSTERY, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Tom
You assume that I believe that conception is It.. For me it is not. When a fetus is viable and can sustain outside of the womb, your argument is valid. Until that time all bets are off. He verse I referred to clearly says, judge your own. God will judge the others. It is rather simplistic to include fashion sense, although I hear a great deal of that today. Stop judging those who do not subscribe to your own deeply held and personal religious beliefs. That is the point.
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John Owens
It is not being judgmental to call murder a murder, or life, life. That is the point.
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Amber
I guess the legal and medical idea of what life is differs from what general religious populace thinks it is. Everywhere in the states it is illegal to abort past the first trimester. That isn't even development enough to be recognizable as human yet, never mind physically functional. It's a bundle of cells about the size of a large wad of bubblegum incapable of taking breath. You want to judge I suggest you focus on those molesting and raping women and children, or robbing and killing store owners. They deserve far more judgement.
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John Owens
Your double standards are so horribly hypocritical that you almost have to be twins.
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Dr. Griffith
John-
Again, you are telling what me to believe by telling me when life begins. I believe it is at birth, stop telling those who do not believe as you do what to believe. It's my girlfriend or wife's choice and my and their personal beliefs that are important in the choice to abort or not to abort. It has nothing to do with you.
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John Owens
David, I didn't tell YOU to believe a DAMN thing. I told Tom a few things. If it's your girlfriend's or wife's choice, how do YOUR personal beliefs enter into the choice to abort or not to abort? You are saying your beliefs matter here. If they do, then so do MINE.
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John Maher
AMEN,TOM JAYNES, AMEN................ DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, ANY MANGINA trying to MAKE or FORCE a WOMANS CHOICE is IMPOTENT 100 %
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Jim D.
Closer, Mr. Maher. They're getting closer.
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John Maher
HEY JIMBO the BIMBO, ANOTHER UN NAMED PUNK COWARD J I M, GET BEHIND MOMMIES FAT ARSE and HIDE from the CRAZY MAN, JIM has JOINED the SKANKS of the VILLAGE IDIOTS,TALK about DRINKING did U SKANKS HAVE UR WINE and CRACKER TODAY ??? POST with UR BUTTIE BOOGER OWINS UR on the same TRACK, TRAINS for BRAINfarts, DUMP THE IGFNORAMUS COWARDLY CRIMINAL TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, DUH JIM there coming to take me away, it would be a RELIEF from ARSEHOLES LIKE YOU
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Jim D.
Oh, no, Mr. Maher. Now you've done it. You have addressed me directly. The one thing you were not supposed to do is address me directly, and you did. It's like pushing the red button, Mr. Maher. The one button you're not supposed to push, and you pushed the red button. I'm so sorry, Mr. Maher. I'm afraid this is the end for you. We're all going to miss your ridiculous posts, your unintelligible grammar, your misspellings... the way you write like a loud-mouth, but you're just a coward, Mr. Maher. You like to flex your cyber-muscles from behind your keyboard, but in person, you have a yellow streak down your back as bright as a school bus. And now, Mr. Maher, you will have to leave us. Goodbye, Mr. Maher. It was a genuine pleasure getting to know a nitwit like you.
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John Maher
THE PLEASURE is ALL YOURS I AM SURE and I am ALSO SURE U get YOUR PLEASURE from tRUMP YOU KNOW the EXALTED HIGH PRIEST of the VILLAGE of IDOTS YOUR HOME TOWN JIM-BOW the BIM-BOW, I am SURE YOUR IDEAS are from that CRIMINAL NAZI.
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Martha Knight
It is naive to predict that there will not be abortions in the state if the last place providing them is closed. There will be many abortions, but many will be unsafe, unsanitary, dangerous, carried out on kitchen tables or in back rooms.
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John Owens
There will be many other occurrences, also, Martha. Death and mayhem and rape and bullying, theft, etc., but they will not occur with government sanction. Do you think the government should supply rapists with clean victims and sterile environments, or thieves with willing, unarmed victims? The principle is the same. The very same.
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John Maher
WAKE UP BOOGER OWINS YOUR tRUMP is DOING that VERY SAME THING YOU JUST WROTE to MARTHA, YOU only JUDGE WITHOUT JUDGEMENTAL CAPACITY VILLAGE IDIOT, SOLOMON GRUNDY, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A.......
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Minister Carey
Government sanctions war on innocent men, women, and children (some unborn) to get control of their land and resources. Such as Native lands and fresh water. Is this cruel, evil, and genocidal? What are you doing to help support their right to life. A woman (womb of man) was given free will to choose who, when, and where she will portal another human being to this earth plane. This is between she and her Creator. Please show me the evidence where the Almighty Creator put you and your like-minded cohorts in charge over women's bodies. If you don't approve of abortion, don't get one.
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John Maher
THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH MINISTER CAREY, the VILLAGE IDIOTS ONLY READ MADD BIBLE MAGAZINE and CONSTANTLY MISQUOTE, MISINTERPRET in their VILE WAY, COMMENT as if GOD told them SAME this MORNING, WAKE UP BOOGER OWINS and the REST of the KNOWNOTHINGS,UNLESS U HAVE a UTERUS, GOT it BOYS !!! or MANGINAS like tRUMP, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP,GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Tom
Amen"
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John Owens
Your arguments are always stupid and always the same: "charge over women's bodies." Mindless drivel. Idiotic nothingness. You should be banished to limbo with that crap. Get a brain.
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John Maher
JOHN Booger OWINS you HAVE been DISCOVERED, A tRUMPIE ARSELICKER, BEARER of FAKE NEWS from FAKE PLACES like the W H, BE HAPPY DONT WORRY BOOGER OWINS SOMEDAY YOUR PRINCE will COME BUTT it AIN'T the tRUMP, DUMP THE IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A..... and DITTO for UR NOTHING COMMENTARIES as ALWAYS !!!
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Minister Carey
Gotcha troll!
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John Owens
You're the troll, you moron. All you know how to do is insult. That is NOT intelligence. That's moronic.
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Amber
I'm sorry but no, it isn't. You are talking about people who are already born, alive and making life difficult to impossible for everyone else. You are proposing forcing choice between putting a woman's life in serious danger or forcing a child into this world that is so violent. I'm still waiting for pro life people to actually focus on the living, people breaking laws and harming others rather than judging and controlling the life of women.
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John Owens
A) I am not PROPOSING anything. I am just saying that a child is a child, regardless of age or their own awareness. IF it is a double homicide to murder a pregnant woman, THEN it follows that it is a SINGLE homicide to cause her to miscarry. You cannot rationally have it both ways. B) The VERY RARE instances where a woman's life is in danger account for such a small percentage of abortions that it BARELY deserves mentioning, BUT in those RARE cases, I don't think many people would object to an abortion. C) I DO focus on criminals and draw the same kind of criticism that I am getting over abortion. It seems that many people don't want any kind of limit on behavior, unless it is typical Christian behavior, which is deemed just horrible. D) It is not judging OR controlling the life of women to call a baby a baby and a life a life. If women are so concerned about having others control their bodies and lives, they could keep their legs together more and have FEWER abortions, and in those cases where they are forced, they could testify against the men and the men could be castrated or killed and there would be MANY fewer rapes and less need for the RARE abortions based on rape.
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John Maher
AH*SHADDUP JOHN BOOGER tRUMP OWINS YOU GIVE EVERYONE NOTHING BUTT STUPIDITY in YOUR POSTS, KNOW NOTHING FRUSTRATED PREACHER !!!
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The Doctor
Every pregnancy puts a womans life at risk. Every ONE!. Even with all our modern tools to help reduce the risk no doctor will ever say there is such a thing as a risk free pregnancy.
In nature it is common for a mother to abandon her young to save herself in times of drought or famine knowing her darwinistic duty is to survive at all costs. Some animals in extreme volatile climates have even evolved the ability to keep a viable embryo in a form of stasis until such time as food and water become abundant.
Kangaroo for example have been known to abandon a joey, starve the baby in the pouch by shutting down their mammary glands, and keep the unborn in stasis when times of drought set in.
It is natural for a female to when ever feeling uncertain of their future recognize that raising a child can only put them both at risk.
Any god that would ask a woman to ignore her own instincts be they to raise a child or not give birth to one is an enemy of all life.
Your god sounds like an enemy to me, and you a traitor to life and the Earth.
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John Owens
Jedi,
You said my god sounds a certain way to you, but you haven't HEARD MY GOD, FROM MY GOD, OR OF MY GOD.
The passage to which you are replying DOESN'T EVEN MENTION GOD, so you imagined everything you hate about me. YOU are trying to INVENT MY GOD in your own warped, tiny imagination. Who is the enemy of humanity here? How can you even USE the word TRAITOR?
You're talking about Kangaroos and joeys like that has anything at all to do with humans, and then trying to JUDGE ME. You need to take a long look at yourself and see how ridiculous your little passage is.
Submitted to you for your own edification.
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JoEtta Yeary Macera
I believe that abortion is a choice and since it is governing my body and law states this is a legal choice then the governor or any official should allow me that choice.
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John Maher
HEAR, HEAR MARTHA and JoEtta, IT IS YOUR BODY, YOUR FETUS and YOUR CHOICE, to BOOGER OWINS W T F are YOU LEAVING the PLANET, VILLAGE IDIOT ??? DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP and ALL the tRUMPIES with their IGNORANT COMMENTs, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Amber
This is where it should stay. We each should have those choices for our own. No one really wants an abortion but there are just situations and incidences that sometimes require it. Making abortion illegal only makes more problems. The only way to get rid of it is to focus on the way life is right now, getting that to a better place for everyone. Fewer people need it when life is managed better at base levels.
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James
As long as my tag dollars don't pay for it, and the father has equal say in the death of their child. Sure, any female can kill off the product of her sexual exploit. Because she is the one killing not the father. However, a few issues could be excepted. Rape proven by law, incest, etc. But to saling parts, ripping living babies out of the vagina until only their had is left inside, and then cut their spinal cord, or stab their brain. Yeah, that's murder. Just my opinion.
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John Maher
HOW about your TAX DOLLARS paying YOUR USELESS tRUMP,HOW ABOUT USELESS tRUMP sending YOURs or ANYONES GROWN CHILDREN into WAR or HARMS WAY to be MANGLED and TORN to PIECES,HOW ABOUT tRUMP PISSING AWAY YOUR TAX DOLLARS on G O L F VACATIONS and USELESS TRIPS to NOWHERE, HOW ABOUT tRUMP TELLING POLICE Depts. to MISTREAT ANYONE they ARREST !!! and JUST HOW ABOUT tRUMP ???......... DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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John Maher
F U and YOUR IGNORANT OPINIONS JAMES, ANOTHER VILLAGE IDIOT !!
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John Owens
You're doing great, James. SEE? Maher is cursing you in his little special way. That means you are on the right track with your words.
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John Maher
AS USUAL BOOGERS FAKE NEWS,the VILLAGE IDIOT GAZETTE, WHO am I CURSING A H OWINS, I LEAVE that to U and tRUMP and MOOCHIE,the KNOW it ALL NOTHINGs, ALL YOUR VAST KNOWLEDGE BOOGER and YOU KNOW NOT WHAT a CURSE IS ??? GET a DICTIONARY and GUIDE to UNDERSTANDING the BIBLE, NOT the BABBLE BOOGER, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A.. WHEN will U ever LEARN OWINS
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John Owens
JOHN MAHER
July 31, 2017 at 9:07 am
F U and YOUR IGNORANT OPINIONS JAMES, ANOTHER VILLAGE IDIOT !!
You should read your own posts, if you're able. Then you wouldn't ask stupid questions about stupid posts.
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John Maher
I do READ MY POSTS with GLEE and ASTONISHMENT HOW POLITICALLY CORRECT 100 % MY POSTS ARE BOOGER OWINS,I ONLY HAVE PROBLEMS when READING YOUR IGNORANT READING of PERSONS that WROTE NOTHING BUTT BIGOTRY and FEAR into a BOOK and STATE that GOD, GOD WROTE this BOOK or CLAIM GOD MADE these CLAIMS,ONWARD CHRISTIAN A Hs, ..DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, only a FEW more DOMINOES LEFT, VILLAGE IDIOT..................
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John Maher
For U and YOUR IGNORANCE as ALWAYS in LIGHT VILLAGE IDIOT BOOGER OWINS, and EXPLAIN to ME WHAT is a C U R S E ??? DOES YOUR FAMILY LIKE YOU BOOGER, I HOPE NOT, POOR PEASANTS, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the US of A and MAY JESUS ENLIGHTEN ALL the PEASANTS, PLEASE JESUS !!!
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John Owens
Just this one more time, Maher. We shouldn't cast our pearls before swine, (my words are the pearls, you're the swine) but I'll tell you one time and one time only--
Trying to be politically correct is the dumbest, most hypocritical, most deceptive, most ignorant thing any person can do, and the only reason it was invented at all, was to convince fairly decent people to allow evil to flourish among them and take over. If that is what is motivating your asininity, you only being duped. If you are naturally asinine, or work hard at it, please don't do it to be politically correct.
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John Maher
THE PEARLS I CAST ARE for SWINE as YOU JOHN* MISS PIGGY *OWINS you will have to STRING them YOURSELF for YOUR DATE with the tRUMP and FAKE NEWS the tRUMP is NOT a FROG PRINCE HE is an ORANGUTAN, BE WARY of HIS LITTLE HANDS, ENJOY YOUR DATE BOOGER OWINS, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, YOUR OUT of YOUR EDUCATIONAL RANGE on this BLOG JOHN * BRAINFART * OWINS
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John Owens
...SAYS THE MAN WHO CANNOT TYPE OR SPELL, SUFFERS FROM TOURETTES, AND MAKES NO SENSE.
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John Maher
TOURETTES SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING YOU JOHN BOOGER OWINS WOULD be SUCKING on WHILE READING YOUR BIBLE BABBLE and POSTING YOUR FAKE IMAGININGS, POOR PEASANT EDUCATION, YOUR the REASON the COUNTRY NEEDS BETTER SCHOOLS and TEACHERS for SPECIAL PERSONS like YOU,YES BOOGER OWINS YOU ARE VERY SPECIAL SPECIES of DYING BRAINFARTs, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Amber
It hasn't been for a while. Money was being donated for it from elsewhere. And your idea of what an abortion is and when it's done is not accurate. The propaganda tapes about that were fact checked and found to be falsified.
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The Doctor
The only thing your or anyones tax dollars do is pay off the ever increasing debt our country owes to the Federal Reserve Bank and those who own it. Seriously how did you reach adulthood and not understand that is how it works. Every Single Dime of taxes goes to the Fed Res the private bank that is run by private investors, and alone holds the power of our countries purse strings.
National Debt is part of their plan. The corporate tyrants all endorse it and have since the end of the great depression that they created to incite fear and put the people into this position of perpetual debt and make wage slaves of all.
Even property tax when you actually read into it, is because the government has a eternal lean on your property. It doesnt matter if it was settled and farmed by a dozen generations of your family, if you home schooled every one of them, if you cut every road on your land and are fully self sustaining. Every year the gov will steadily increase your properties perceived value and raise the sum owed on that lean.
This is not the land of the free it is the land of the owned.
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Beth K
+John Owens: The notion that a conceived blastocyst or zygote, or even a foetus in the first or early-second trimester pregnancy is a human life with all of the value of human life is neither supported by Christian scripture nor by medical science.
Medical science tells us that the peripheral nervous system - which allows the brain to feel pain does not develop until 19 weeks of pregnancy. The nerves that connect the brain to the peripheral nervous system do not develop until 23-24 weeks. The infant's brain on EEG monitors start showing that the infant is awake and conscious at 30 weeks - which is into the third trimester of pregnancy.
In scripture, there is the notion of "quickening" of a foetus. That is when it claimed the soul entered the body. This is felt by the mother, and currently that is believed to be when she first feels the foetus move or "kick", which is also late second semester pregnancy in most cases.
In Numbers where they count people for the census, infants under 1 month old were not counted, and were not officially "people" until 1 month after they were born.
None of this supports any notion that life begins at conception.
Nearly all abortions occur during the fist trimester of pregnancy, during which time there is no brain, no nervous system, no mechanism for the foetus to feel pain, contain a soul, be conscious, or anything else. Few abortions occur in the second trimester, and most of those are early in the second trimester, before there can be any consciousness, pain, or "quickening". In the very rare cases where a third-trimester abortion is performed, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with the foetus where it will not survive birth or in some cases is already dead. Do you know what we call removal of a third-trimester foetus who can survive outside the womb (with or without modern medical care)? BIRTH. Induced labor. C-section. The goal is to have a live mother and baby. In cases where the mother does not want the baby, he/she is put up for adoption.
So, as there is no scientific nor scriptural basis for calling an early-stage foetus an "innocent human life", what then is the goal of the anti-abortion activists? Moreover, since these same people are often anti-birth control and anti-sex education - BOTH of which are proven methods to reduce abortion/demand for abortion, they are, indeed, very similar to the Taliban. Both groups seek to have all rights taken from women. Both groups lack scriptural support for their positions. Both groups have a goal of enacting a theocracy governed by their own positions - lacking any support in the religion they claim to follow. The whole thing is belied over there even being a debate over whether there are exceptions for pregnancies caused by rape or incest. It's the same for the foetus, who most certainly is not at fault for the circumstances of conception. It is a matter of punishing the woman. They used to stone adultresses and brides found not to be virgins. What did Jesus say about stoning the adultress? Now, the Taliban and the anti-abortion Christians don't stone anyone, but force her to give birth to an unwanted child. Some of them die every day because no one cares. Where are the people who value human life? We certainly have enough unwanted/uncared for BORN children that we don't have to create more!
Truly though, a foetus has its own DNA which is different than the mother's at the moment of conception. In cellular biology terms, that would be considered life. Of course it is "innocent" - at that point, the cell has no ability for agency. Cancer also has its own DNA which is different than the cancer patient's, but is unmistakably human. Cancer also is incapable of deliberate action, thus it is also "innocent". So, removing a cancerous tumor is also "destroying innocent human life".
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Randy powell
No more abortions, let gods children have a chance. Baby killers will have there place in hell
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John Maher
IF they ARE GODS CHILDREN will they RECIEVE MONEY,FOOD,CLOTHES and total SUPPORT from GOD or will they WIND UP LIKE YOUR OFFSPRINGS, BIG MOUTH, SUPPORT YOUR FAMILY and SHADDUP RANDY POWELL, ANOTHER VILLAGE IDIOT, LOOK for some of YOUR BUTTIES also TALKING MANGINA SHYTE ABOUT NOTHING they KNOW OF, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Tom
Well said.
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John Owens
If you're an idiot.
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John Maher
AND WHO KNOWS MORE ABOUT BEING an IDIOT, VILLAGE IDIOT, than JOHN OWINS !!!
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Amber
Sorry but you are the one who is showing the ignorance here. It was well said, well researched and well supported by both science and law.
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John Owens
Wordy as Hell is not the same as researched or supported. Neither science NOR law support a lot of that. You think it is accurate and scientific because it agrees with you. That is at LEAST as ignorant as you think I am showing myself. In fact, you know what? You need to check your attitude. You call me ignorant because you disagree with me, not because you know me, or know how much or little I know. That makes YOU the ignorant one, just by doing that.
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John Owens
I POSTED THIS FRIDAY, BETH, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE I POSTED IT FARTHER DOWN THE PAGE. I WANTED TO BE SURE YOU SAW IT.
July 28, 2017 at 4:01 pm
First, I see a contradiction right here, Beth:
“The infant’s brain on EEG monitors start showing that the infant is awake and conscious at 30 weeks – which is into the third trimester of pregnancy.
In scripture, there is the notion of “quickening” of a foetus. That is when it claimed the soul entered the body. This is felt by the mother, and currently that is believed to be when she first feels the foetus move or “kick”, which is also late second semester pregnancy in most cases.”
Basically you are saying the child is squirming before it is conscious. If it is squirming, it is alive.
Second: “In Numbers where they count people for the census, infants under 1 month old were not counted, and were not officially “people” until 1 month after they were born” They were not counted as dead, either, or ok to kill. Census notwithstanding, at one time, Jesus was less than one month old, as were we all. He was still the prophesied Savior, as John was the prophesied forerunner. Each prophesied person was counted before they were conceived, as was Moses, as was Jacob, as was Jeremiah, as was Samuel, Samson, et al. All of these people had a destiny before they were born. When Mary and Elizabeth were both pregnant and saw one another, the babies leapt in their wombs. To come to the interpretation you have reached according to scripture, someone was trying awfully hard to ignore certain passages and to LEAD you to that interpretation, which I see as completely lop-sided, so this matter-of-fact statement you made- “”None of this supports any notion that life begins at conception,” is, in fact, NOT FACTUAL. It requires very poor observation and/or reading skills and a lack of critical analysis to come to that conclusion.
Now, I think you comparing a tumor to a baby tells a lot more about your thought processes than it ever can mine. You also mention the rape/incest .001% reason for abortion. If you really believe it is a good thing, people should leave that one out TOTALLY because it is such a non-issue. We KNOW babies are aborted AFTER they have developed brains and eyes and limbs and can feel pain, and we KNOW that it is NOT painless or merciful.
If an ovum could be successfully aborted within a week or two after conception, that MIGHT be humane, but with modern birth control, it would be so much easier just to NOT IMPREGNATE an ovum.
Your comparison of Christians and Taliban leaves out something really huge. I call your attention to this statement of yours:
“Now, the Taliban and the anti-abortion Christians don’t stone anyone, but force her to give birth to an unwanted child. Some of them die every day because no one cares. Where are the people who value human life? We certainly have enough unwanted/uncared for BORN children that we don’t have to create more! ”
I understand that people who have NO MORAL COMPASS except public opinion think it is impossible and unrealistic to try to keep girls from allowing boys to dump their sperm into them, or to teach boys that they should not do that outside of marriage. Still, I think even the morally ambivalent and confused should be able to learn and teach how to avoid pregnancy and disease. That doesn’t take too much discipline. You talk about caring about human life? About people dying every day? Hardly anyone in THIS country is forced to get pregnant in the first place. If you CARED about these women, you should consider teaching them to place a high value on their body and reproductive system and the fabled “reproductive rights.” Young men should be taught also. People need discipline if they are to have a decent life. Teach something besides “religion is evil”. Teach something GOOD that is good FOR them.
Read more at https://www.themonastery.org/blog/2017/07/christian-group-fighting-to-close-kentuckys-last-abortion-clinic/#gBv3mwGR9ZJxuQZz.99
First, I see a contradiction right here, Beth:
“The infant’s brain on EEG monitors start showing that the infant is awake and conscious at 30 weeks – which is into the third trimester of pregnancy.
In scripture, there is the notion of “quickening” of a foetus. That is when it claimed the soul entered the body. This is felt by the mother, and currently that is believed to be when she first feels the foetus move or “kick”, which is also late second semester pregnancy in most cases.”
Basically you are saying the child is squirming before it is conscious. If it is squirming, it is alive.
Second: “In Numbers where they count people for the census, infants under 1 month old were not counted, and were not officially “people” until 1 month after they were born” They were not counted as dead, either, or ok to kill. Census notwithstanding, at one time, Jesus was less than one month old, as were we all. He was still the prophesied Savior, as John was the prophesied forerunner. Each prophesied person was counted before they were conceived, as was Moses, as was Jacob, as was Jeremiah, as was Samuel, Samson, et al. All of these people had a destiny before they were born. When Mary and Elizabeth were both pregnant and saw one another, the babies leapt in their wombs. To come to the interpretation you have reached according to scripture, someone was trying awfully hard to ignore certain passages and to LEAD you to that interpretation, which I see as completely lop-sided, so this matter-of-fact statement you made- “”None of this supports any notion that life begins at conception,” is, in fact, NOT FACTUAL. It requires very poor observation and/or reading skills and a lack of critical analysis to come to that conclusion.
Now, I think you comparing a tumor to a baby tells a lot more about your thought processes than it ever can mine. You also mention the rape/incest .001% reason for abortion. If you really believe it is a good thing, people should leave that one out TOTALLY because it is such a non-issue. We KNOW babies are aborted AFTER they have developed brains and eyes and limbs and can feel pain, and we KNOW that it is NOT painless or merciful.
If an ovum could be successfully aborted within a week or two after conception, that MIGHT be humane, but with modern birth control, it would be so much easier just to NOT IMPREGNATE an ovum.
Your comparison of Christians and Taliban leaves out something really huge. I call your attention to this statement of yours:
“Now, the Taliban and the anti-abortion Christians don’t stone anyone, but force her to give birth to an unwanted child. Some of them die every day because no one cares. Where are the people who value human life? We certainly have enough unwanted/uncared for BORN children that we don’t have to create more! ”
I understand that people who have NO MORAL COMPASS except public opinion think it is impossible and unrealistic to try to keep girls from allowing boys to dump their sperm into them, or to teach boys that they should not do that outside of marriage. Still, I think even the morally ambivalent and confused should be able to learn and teach how to avoid pregnancy and disease. That doesn’t take too much discipline. You talk about caring about human life? About people dying every day? Hardly anyone in THIS country is forced to get pregnant in the first place. If you CARED about these women, you should consider teaching them to place a high value on their body and reproductive system and the fabled “reproductive rights.” Young men should be taught also. People need discipline if they are to have a decent life. Teach something besides “religion is evil”. Teach something GOOD that is good FOR them.
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Amber
Thank you, Beth K, for a very accurate and well researched post. I wish more people would actually do this. I think some are just afraid to find out that what they are told by their groups, what they think they know and have been living by for so long might actually be wrong. Sadly some just don't have a very firm grasp on reading comprehension skills and just might not understand anyway.
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John Owens
It isn't THAT accurate. I pointed out errors in it, WITHOUT any research, because of having prior knowledge of some of what she was MIS-speaking.
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John Maher
THAT SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE JOHN BOOGER OWINS, NO GRASP on READING, NO COMPREHENSION SKILLS,NO SKILLS BESIDES HATE and NAME CALLING, A NOTHING 100 %BRAVO VILLAGE IDIOT, GET YERSELF a BLOWUP DOLL that LOOKS LIKE tRUMP
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John Owens
First, I see a contradiction right here, Beth:
"The infant’s brain on EEG monitors start showing that the infant is awake and conscious at 30 weeks – which is into the third trimester of pregnancy.
In scripture, there is the notion of “quickening” of a foetus. That is when it claimed the soul entered the body. This is felt by the mother, and currently that is believed to be when she first feels the foetus move or “kick”, which is also late second semester pregnancy in most cases."
Basically you are saying the child is squirming before it is conscious. If it is squirming, it is alive.
Second: "In Numbers where they count people for the census, infants under 1 month old were not counted, and were not officially “people” until 1 month after they were born" They were not counted as dead, either, or ok to kill. Census notwithstanding, at one time, Jesus was less than one month old, as were we all. He was still the prophesied Savior, as John was the prophesied forerunner. Each prophesied person was counted before they were conceived, as was Moses, as was Jacob, as was Jeremiah, as was Samuel, Samson, et al. All of these people had a destiny before they were born. When Mary and Elizabeth were both pregnant and saw one another, the babies leapt in their wombs. To come to the interpretation you have reached according to scripture, someone was trying awfully hard to ignore certain passages and to LEAD you to that interpretation, which I see as completely lop-sided, so this matter-of-fact statement you made- ""None of this supports any notion that life begins at conception," is, in fact, NOT FACTUAL. It requires very poor observation and/or reading skills and a lack of critical analysis to come to that conclusion.
Now, I think you comparing a tumor to a baby tells a lot more about your thought processes than it ever can mine. You also mention the rape/incest .001% reason for abortion. If you really believe it is a good thing, people should leave that one out TOTALLY because it is such a non-issue. We KNOW babies are aborted AFTER they have developed brains and eyes and limbs and can feel pain, and we KNOW that it is NOT painless or merciful.
If an ovum could be successfully aborted within a week or two after conception, that MIGHT be humane, but with modern birth control, it would be so much easier just to NOT IMPREGNATE an ovum.
Your comparison of Christians and Taliban leaves out something really huge. I call your attention to this statement of yours:
"Now, the Taliban and the anti-abortion Christians don’t stone anyone, but force her to give birth to an unwanted child. Some of them die every day because no one cares. Where are the people who value human life? We certainly have enough unwanted/uncared for BORN children that we don’t have to create more! "
I understand that people who have NO MORAL COMPASS except public opinion think it is impossible and unrealistic to try to keep girls from allowing boys to dump their sperm into them, or to teach boys that they should not do that outside of marriage. Still, I think even the morally ambivalent and confused should be able to learn and teach how to avoid pregnancy and disease. That doesn't take too much discipline. You talk about caring about human life? About people dying every day? Hardly anyone in THIS country is forced to get pregnant in the first place. If you CARED about these women, you should consider teaching them to place a high value on their body and reproductive system and the fabled "reproductive rights." Young men should be taught also. People need discipline if they are to have a decent life. Teach something besides "religion is evil". Teach something GOOD that is good FOR them.
I have to go now, and will not be back before Monday.
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John Maher
WELL BOOGER OWINS in YOUR CASE I HOPE MONDAY NEVER COMES to YOUR VILLAGE, IDIOT BLABBER, GET A MIND BOOGER OWINS, MATURE BOOGER OWINS, HEY YOU NOW HAVE a NEW VILLAGE IDIOT FRIEND to HANG OUT with and TRADE IGNORANT IDEOLOGY , SCARAMOOCHI OR MOOCHIE the NAME SAYs it ALL, ANOTHER P O S, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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True Bible Believer
Interesting that I post a well thought out, reasoned and very personally revealing reply and get censored, but this sorry excuse for a 5-year-old "booger" flinging idiot has plastered these blogs with his immature temper tantrums and has free reign??
Amazing, simply amazing!
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John Maher
true bible believer, IF YOU SO BELIEVE in WRITTEN WORDS and NOT ACTIONs GET a JOB in the LIBRARY and BATHE in INK and PAPER becuase that SEEMs to BE YOUR GOD, GOD DOES NOT TALK SHYTE it is DONE !!! VILLAGE IDIOT,BUTTIE of the BOOGER, WHATS the MATTER BIBLE got UR TONGUE, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP and ALL HIS tRUMPIES, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A,.. TRUE BELIEVER get a BRAIN and leave READING to PEOPLE WHO CAN !!!
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John Owens
He's the moderator's personal nose-picker and butt-wiper.
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John Maher
tRUMPs ARSE LICKER JOHN BOOGER OWINS, try to be ORIGINAL a WEE BIT U KNOW the SIZE of YOUR BRAIN and REPRODUCTIVE USELESS PARTS, PRIVATES for the VILLAGE IDIOTS, LIKE YOU NEVER GIVE ANY MEANINGFUL COMMENTS ALL you WRITE is WHAT YOU READ or tRUMP TELLS YOU, in OTHER WORDS BOOGER OWINS FAKE NEWS
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John Maher
JOHN BOOGER OWINS U post NOTHING BUTT HEARSAY that U BELIEVE, FAKE NEWS and then U CRY like a SORRYASS PUNK { DONALD J. tRUMP ] and then LOOK for SYMPATHY for YOUR IGNORANCE { DONALD J.Trump ] A tRUMPIE is A tRUMPIE, EH' BOOGER OWINS
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John Maher
JOHN BOOGER OWINS YOU ARE GUILTY of SAME EVERYTIME YOU MASTERBATE,in YOUR CASE a MASS MUDERER EH' VILLAGE IDIOT ??? DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the Us of A, MASTER YOURSELF BOOGER OWINS
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Minister Carey
Think on this John, a mother births a child, not give life to the child. Life has already been bestowed upon humans by the Creator. We can only pass life on to our offspring. Thus, an egg and a sperm are already living tissue. When the two (egg and sperm) meet, they have the potential of making a viable living soul (upon taking in and sustaining the breath). A dead egg and/or dead sperm will not make a living baby. The reproductive system of the woman has to be alive and functioning in order to bring a live baby to the world. Life does not begin when the sperm hits the egg. Life already is. Look at this John, it could be said that babies are aborted when a living egg is not fertilized by a living sperm; and babies are aborted when living sperm is spilled without the intention of making a baby. This could get downright sinful. Aren't you glad we have free will over our living bodies?
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John Maher
YOU SAID it MIN. CAREY !!!
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John Owens
You think you are making your case, but you are making mine. Please continue.
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Minister Carey
Hmmm, somewhere on this post you stated that what I say is drivel. If I am making your case as well, then everything you say and think is drivel. Welcome fellow stupid, driveling, fool. Meet you in limbo. Life does NOT begin at conception is my point. The case I am making via all my posts on this matter is a woman can, does, and will choose what she does with her body. IT AIN'T YOUR BUSINESS. Does this incite anger in you? Are you jealous you don't have a womb to be lord and master over? Or, are your responses designed to incite conversation, perhaps even anger in others? Or are you learning from the intelligent responses? There I've gone and driveled again. Just making our case.
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Amber
You missed the timing of the squirming noted... or perhaps you haven't quite grasped that abortions happen in the first trimester, well before that moment of the 'quickening'. What get's removed is a wad of cells not really recognizably formed. Your second point also seems to stem from the idea abortions happen later in a pregnancy, which it typically does not. Your idea on how modern birth control works seems limited as well.
Understanding of human nature and sexuality is a whole side issue that I honestly don't wish to address here other than to note the idea that sexual contact is entirely a moral, social, public issue. It goes so much deeper than that and studies on it would be far more prudent. It really does deserve more than trying to chalk it up to religious no-nos.
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Tom
So far, most of the comments, except one, are from men. Do you think this is a problem? I do!
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John Maher
PROBLEM, YES !!! MANGINA D..K HEADS TALKING SHYTE about NON of THEIR BUSINESS !!! DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP,GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, BIG PROBLEM COMING from the tRUMPIE VILLAGE IDIOTS, ABORTION is for the WOMAN to DECIDE,LOOK WHAT YOUR MOTHERS GOT MANGINA VILLAGE IDIOTS......................
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John Owens
You're both commenting, so what's your point? Men can't comment on abortion? Doesn't it take a woman and a man to make a child? If men can't comment on abortion, then black people can't comment on white people, and vice-versa. Doctors can't comment on dentistry.
I'll tell you why it's mostly men commenting. The women who think similarly to me on the subject don't want to be verbally attacked by the mindless daleks on here, and the rest of them who think like the daleks don't want people like me to show them how stupid they are.
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John Maher
THE ONLY PERSON SHOWING THEIR IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY is YOU JOHN BOOGER OWINS and THAT is ALL I HAVE BEEN DEMONSTRATING to U BUTT ALAS VILLAGE IDIOT YOU ARE BLIND to YOURSELF, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP,GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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John Maher
NEVER SHOW or TELL an IGNORANT PERSON of THEIR IGNORANCE or YOU WILL HAVE an ENEMY for LIFE,THEIRS OFCOURSE !!! DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, ... HELLO AGAIN JOHN BOOGER OWINS a LEGEND in HIS OWINS MIND..........
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Amber
I think the point was that it would be good to hear more women chime in. They are, after all, most affected by this.
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John Owens
Abortees can be male or female. Babies still require a mother and a father to be "quickened". While it is not the male's body who carries the child, it is not a one-gender issue. All of society is affected by this, particularly minorities.
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John Maher
JOHN BOOGER OWINS there REALLY is NO NAME NOUN to DESCRIBE YOUR TOTAL IGNORANCE of ALL YOU POST IGNORAMUS VILLAGE IDIOT
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Minister Carey
I am female and I will always stand for the right of a woman to choose.
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Minister Carey
If you're going to play the race card John, play it well. Right now you're making a bigger ass of your self. But, dang, what you think and say is just drivel anyway. Please help me keep this in mind.
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John Owens
You're working too hard at it, Carey. All pathos with no ethos. Show us what you got. Really. All you have is calling names. That's low class, low IQ stuff. More proof your a lemming.
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John Owens
correction: you're a lemming.
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John Maher
AS the tRUMP NO ONE will get J. BOOGER OWINS to ADMIT ANYTHING EXCEPT his INNOCENCE of WHICH WE ALL KNOW WOULD BE A LIE ANYWAY, JUST LIKE tRUMP !!!.........DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY CRIMINAL TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, BOOGER OWINS insists HE is the VICTIM, TYPICAL VILLAGE IDIOT
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Sarah Hamilton
Of course there are ways to bridge this gap. It cannot be done on a group level though. Each person who believes in the lie of women wanting to murder children needs to be engaged one on one by well informed and patient staff members of the clinic. The violence, the hate, all of this stems from misconceptions about science and women's rights to privacy. At the end of the day, personally reminding someone that it is not right for another person to be allowed to make medical decisions for them is the tantamount argument. You want me coming in to your surgery and claiming you don't deserve it? Suddenly they see themselves in these women, they see the same God that lives in them also lives in these women, and they care for them at last. In summary: If you are against abortion, then you should not get an abortion. Other than that, it will never be your business and you flout the will of God when you judge his children before their time.
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Amber
And this is the whole of it. Thank you Sarah.
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Kristy
Unfortunately, this is not about egotistical thoughts and opinions which should be kept to self and pondered on as such. This is about a woman's right to choose, just as any other human being faced with a life altering (albeit the way it's perceived by that individual) decision which is solely up to them to choose, alone-without anger, protests, ignorance or personal opinion. Think of how it would be if you were diagnosed with a terrible illness in which the only choice for health was unknown or 50/50... Now imagine you're being publicly forced to make a decision (to either have treatment or not) no matter how you think or feel. A different situation yet essentially the same principle Each one of us has a right (God given if you will) to make our own choices in life without being ostracized for it. And for Petes sake folks-PLEASE stop setting such a bad example of patience and understanding! Doesn't our world have enough of this??? ✌????
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John Owens
We all also have a right and a responsibility to NOT make babies we will then DECIDE whether to let them live or take their life from them. Nobody wants to really talk about that. Still, I'm not in Kentucky. Is anyone reading this swill from Kentucky? I'd like to hear from them.
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John Maher
JOHN BOOGER OWINS,CRACKER if YOUSE was in KENTUCK YOUSE BE DED, ...... AND if you get UNLUCKY YOU can wind up in KENTUCKY, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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lolno (@LolNoNom)
I'm in Kentucky and I'm absolutely horrified that people are trying to close down that clinic. Truly horrible people.
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Minister Carey
John, while you drivel, please provide the evidence where it is law (Divine or man-made) that a woman has a responsibility to NOT make babies... What??? Yes, I am enjoying some of your uninformed, misinformed, crazy stupid remarks. You are doing well, making me proud to be your fellow driveler.
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John Owens
You are the stupid idiot, Carey. A complete moron, who somehow manages to type, almost coherently. Who in the Hell said there was a LAW that a woman has a responsibility to NOT make babies. You can't even freaking read, and you are calling ME ignorant! Why don't you go suck on your baby bottle, you dimwit!
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Minister Carey
Ok John, this is where I get off this train. You are losing your composure and I don't want to participate in stumbling you even though I can and am so tempted to take your immature mind to task. I know I gotcha again. John bye.
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John Owens
I got YOU, and you want to pretend I didn't. You can't stand when I show you how full of holes your arguments are, and you cannot believe it is possibly because YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE FULL OF HOLES. It's okay. I'm not angry at you. I get frustrated when you stubbornly stick to the crappy pablum people are being fed now, instead of chewing on the real meat of reason.
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John Maher
MINISTER CAREY I HAVE BEEN SAYING as YOU that JOHN BOOGER OWINS is a VILLAGE IDIOT, ALL ONE MUST do is READ his POSTS, HATE,PERVERSION, DRIVEL, HE KNOWS NOTHING and LIKE tRUMP CANNOT GIVE a STRAIGHT ANSWER to A STRAIGHT QUESTION, ASK HIM ONE, GO AHEAD,BIBLE BABBLE HE CAN'T SPEAK for HIMSELF the SIGN of a CRONIC LIAR,LIKE HIS DA tRUMP.....
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Preacher Jim
Would you not all agree that it doesn't matter what time during the pregnancy you terminate it you stop a life. I personally think that using abortion for birth control is totally out of bounds. Perhaps birth control should be considered the night before.
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John Owens
I agree with Jim.
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Minister Carey
I personally think that poisoning the water as a form of birth control and murder is out of bounds. There are several ways to abort a life. Why is only one method the highlight of concern. Oh - 'Let the babies be born so they can experience and die from fear, war, starvation (of affection, love, attention, food, etc), abuse, poison water. Woman, regardless of your circumstances and what you feel for the child in your womb, let it come to full term to experience your worst fears.' How many women have given away their babies and come to regret it for the rest of their lives? How many adopted and non-adopted children have fallen into the hands of sick, corrupt people. How many women have felt something dreadful when she found she is pregnant?
If you have absolutely NO idea what a woman is feeling about what is going on with her body and the contents within, stand down. This will be worked out between she and her Creator. Can you and driveling John discern when her Creator has a hand in this matter? Is it possible that the Almighty knower of all things may guide her to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, even a wanted pregnancy because of circumstances she or her family (support system) will not be able to handle.
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John Owens
Your last statement applies to those who practice abortion, as well as those who oppose it. "With whatsoever measure ye mete, it shall be meted again to you." Is it not JUDGING an unborn's life worthless to take it? If there is a resurrection, will the aborted be resurrected to ask their mothers and fathers why their life was judged not worth living?
You are somewhat correct. I will not answer for any abortions in the Judgment, but those who judge the innocent and take their lives shall.
Also, if it is not my business, then not one cent of my tax money should be spent on it, and if the abortion is not my business, then also the children of other people are not my business, and not on cent of my tax money should be spent on them, either. Again, you cannot rationally have it both ways. Either it IS my business, or it ISN'T. If it IS, then I have a say. If it ISN'T, then I shouldn't have to provide any funding or support.
It will ALWAYS be my right to say that I feel that something is wrong, at least as equally and loudly as you say it is NOT. I do not hate you, or anyone specifically, but there are abhorrent practices which I do hate, and opinions I think are totally wrong.
You say if I am against abortion, I shouldn't get one. I say, if you are not in Kentucky, you have no say-so in this, and neither do I. Still, if you want to express your opinion, you can read mine. We all might learn a little bit.
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john shephard
Yes, there is a way to have the two groups come together as one, and that is Adoption. Both sides need to work together to facilitate and support the expectant mother's psychological and physical well-being through the pregnancy and then during and after the adoption process. They come together as one group on the realization, the principle, that all life is sacred and a creation of God and if it is not appropriate for someone to raise a child they need to be lovingly helped to endure the pregnancy, deliver the baby, and permit it to be placed in an appropriate environment. If all this is done lovingly, the parent or parents the child is given to will be the one intended by God for them to be with at that time. There is no need for fear, guilt, shame or anger on the part of any party. Just kindness.
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Janice A Ellery
Thank you for a voice of reason. read my post.
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Lark Phillips
If we are going to follow religious beliefs in regard to abortion, which religion should that be? In Judaism the fetus is not considered a person until it has breathed air. It is for this reason that Jews do not hold baby showers, nor do they usually announce a name before the baby is born. It is also why rabbis are virtually all in favor of a woman's right to choose. Isn't Christianity based on Judaism? Where did Christians get this idea that abortion is murder? Certainly not from the Bible – the original five books, nor the Talmud. It is high time that they to work to better inform themselves. http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-fetus-in-jewish-law/
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Wil
Answer this please if a person kills a pregnant woman, why are they charged with both the murder of the woman and unborn child? Why is it ok for the woman to directly cause the death of the unborn baby?
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John Owens
Because of their horrible double standards, Wil. They want everything their own way, regardless of right or wrong, good or evil.
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John Maher
BOOGER OWINS, WHO EXACTLY is T H E Y ??? ANYONE WHO wishes NOT to HEAR / READ YOUR ASININE HATEFUL BIGOTED POSTS to EVERYONE and EVERYTHING, YOU MUST HAVE ASSUREDLY a PHD in ALL SHYTE, BRAVO VILLAGE IDIOT, DUMP THE IGNORAMUS COWARDLY CRIMINAL TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, SUCK on YOUR TOURETTES BOOGER
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John Owens
Maher, you being an expert in asininity, you should know that my posts are not hateful OR bigoted OR asinine. Hateful and bigoted are words your buddies use because they have faulty neurons and are unable to justify their horrific double standards and lack of morality. You got the words asinine and booger and tourettes from me. They say mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery, so you must LOVE me, but in spite of your man-crush on me, I already told you I don't go for any weird crap.
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John Maher
ME NEITHER BOOGER I was under the IMPRESSION YOUR tRUMPS BUTTIE, NO I AM SURE YOU are THAT HONEY BUNNY, COME OUT of the BIBLE BABBLE CLOSET JOHN OWINS, JESUS LOVES YOU, YES I KNOW, I HOPE YOU DO NOT ACCUSE JESUS of a MAN CRUSH BUTT then YOU R YOU, JOHN BOOGER OWINS VILLAGE IDIOT
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lolno (@LolNoNom)
They made a religious argument and you fire back with legality? If you're going to argue it, keep it in the same place so that it's a direct comparison. If you want a legal argument, start it somewhere else.
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John
I like what Joseph wrote. It bears repeating. "As Christians we do not have to like abortion. But we also do not like liars, cheaters, thieves. But GOD tell you to love them in spite of their failings. As Christians we do not have the right to tell anyone else what path GOD puts them on. You do not agree with abortion then do not get one. Its that simple. But when Christians choose to interfere with others beliefs and actions that go against theirs it wrong. Mind you own business, dislike what they may do, and do as GOD demands love the person anyways. When Christians choose to act against a person they are not acting GODLY nor Christian."
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John Owens
I don't think they ARE acting AGAINST anyone in this case. They are acting IN DEFENSE of someone helpless and voiceless. BIG difference. Whether you agree with their position or not, that is their purpose, and even if you don't subscribe to it, it should be respected.
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Sue
I have always enjoyed the articles and perspective on the ULC page. However, I am saddened to see the vile hate being spilled out into some of these comments. No need to reply or make hateful comments about my post. I will not be returning to the ULC page. I'm sure I can find another church to keep up on my learning and growing to try and please the Lord with my actions and words. Blessings to you all.
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M.E.Holt C.N.
This is 'ALL' a waste of time by men with a grudge or ignorant of the problems women have when for some reason they need help. Most women will seek help from a doctor, look at the long term emotional issues generally with a pastor,good friend, or parent and make a decision that is NOBODY"S business. The entire issue is between the female, her doctor, and her relationship with GOD not yours. With that being said all these radical men making a show , fools of themselves for a minute in the lime light need to but out.
Personally I do want a doctor who can help her rather then a bottle of pills or a neighbor with a knitting needle. I'm hoping we've moved past cave man days.
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John Maher
WELL THOUGHT and SAID [posted] MARY HOLT, GOD BLESS ALL THAT THINK and FEEL as HUMANS !!!
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Wil
If the woman is Hell bent on killing their own baby they should be sterilized so they can never again take the life of an innocent creation of our almighty God. My personal opinion is if you insist on ending that purely innocent baby they should terminate themselves. Either way if they go through with it, it's a one way ticket to spending eternity in Hell. There is very, very few reasons an abortion should ever be allowed and a means of birth control is never one. There are so many women and couples that can not have children and would love to adopt the baby. If you have ever observed the procedure as i did on video( for OB rotation)you may understand my opinion. I am in the medical field and I have refused to participate in the procedure every time! Wether it costs me my job or loss of license I'm okay with that.
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Janice A Ellery
While I do not agree with your more extreme stance, I do agree health care providers should be allowed to refuse to participate in an abortion. The exception would be in a situation where the mother's life is in danger. Those situations are extremely rare nowadays.
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The Doctor
Yeah your not in the medical field. Those in the field are science minded sane folk. Your a mentally ill psychopath that needs to be locked in a padded room.
Your also a hypocrite and false christian. a Real Christian only knows love and peace. so endorsing suicide of those pregnant and suffering emotional duress from being in that way is classic misogyny.
You also seem to forget that all sins can be forgiven. So there is no such thing as a one way ticket for hell. Even for vile scum.
Also no there is not some abundance of couples wanting to adopt. Adoption is heavily regulated because most trying to adopt are child abusers and predators. As are most who run foster homes. Unwanted children are a very real thing and a major issue in our global society.
Ending the fetus is a mercy and the only people who should be sterilized are those who betray humanity by giving their faith to a god.
There is no Death only the Force!
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Janice A Ellery
There is no easy stance on this issue. On one hand I believe life begins at conception. However. forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy she doesn't want would be like making someone donate bone marrow or blood against their will.As some have also correctly noted, eliminating legal abortion increases illegal "street" abortions. Many women get an abortion because they feel like they have no choice.Christian groups need to do more to help these women find housing or medical services they need and many will see there is an alternative to abortion. More people are going to have to be willing to adopt the children out unwanted pregnancy. I have seen couples spend fifty thousand dollars to try and have a biological child when there are hundreds of children in foster care needing a home.Many people who are against abortion are also against women having access ti birth control that would prevent pregnancy in the first place. Abstinence is a admirable goal but not realistic for most young people today. The priority has to be preventing pregnancy in the first place. The sin of killing an innocent unborn child is much greater than young people having premarital sex. If we want to reduce abortion we need to step up and be part of the solution. Screaming at women or women or calling them murderers will not accomplish anything.
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Gary Wells
http://americanrtl.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion .You have to read it all. .You have to read your Bible. .You will have to answer to almighty God for your actions, inactions and 'interpretations'. .There is simply too much Biblical evidence and emphasis on the sanctity of a child's life } even in the womb {. .To argue in favor of abortion of the unborn is not Biblical, hence the backing up into the realm of "well, science says" or even dragging further downward into the darkness of name-calling and politicizing for advantage.
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Deborah Alexander-Gioello
I did not come to this forum to see name-calling nor hate speech. As spiritual people, we should be showing love and kindness to all. God tells us in The Holy Bible that we are not to judge others; "Judge not, that ye be no judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" - Matthew 7:1-3 ,
That being said, please understand that only a very minute percentage of women view abortion as a method of birth control. Also, no method of birth control is 100% effective. Studies indicate that at least 50% of pregnancies are not planned (that includes married/committed couples). Most women who seek abortions are in committed/married relationships, and are not young girls, nor promiscuous. Circumstances in a woman's life may make having a child lead to hazards and hardships for her family, not just herself. It's a heart-wrenching decision for a woman to make, regardless of whether she decides to abort, or continue, a pregnancy. If you have never been pregnant, or given birth, you have no credibility in this argument,
Most pregnancies and births turn out OK, but pregnancy and birth are hard on even a healthy woman. Every organ and system in her body has to go into overdrive to grow not only the child, but a new organ, a placenta complete with umbilical cord, Her body also has to produce new cells to increase the size of her uterus so that it won't rupture; new skin cells to accommodate the growing uterus. Her breasts increase in size and prepare to produce milk, Her ligaments loosen, so that her hip joints can widen her stance for balance and make room for the birth. Her blood volume increases so that there will be enough to provide oxygen and nutrients to her and the child, and carry away waste products for both of them. This increases the workload on the heart, lungs, kidneys, and liver- just to mention a few systems. As the child grows, the intestines, bladder, stomach, and lungs get compressed, putting even more load on them. It takes more iron to carry enough oxygen, blood pressure can increase to levels dangerous to both, resulting in cardiac and kidney dysfunction or failure. It takes a minimum 25-pound weight gain to produce a healthy, full-term baby, due to the increased cellular growth needed.to sustain the mother's body systems and provide for the child.
And we haven't even gotten to the birth, yet. Gentlemen, have you ever passed a kidney stone? Birthing is far more demanding, potentially life-threatening, and painful. The average labor lasts 12-16 hours. I assume that you gentlemen have seen a vagina, I assume you may seen a newborn baby; a healthy, full-term newborn should be around 19-20 inches long, weigh at least 7 or more pounds, with a head circumference of about 12-13 inches. Yet most women, even in difficult circumstances choose to have their child. And where is the father? I hope at her side, loving and caring. If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. If you don't want your partner to get pregnant, do your duty to help prevent it. If you want every woman to carry her children to term, do your part to assist those who need medical care, food, shelter, clothing, and other necessities. Be willing to help families bring up their children to be healthy in body and mind, loved, cared for, educated, and given opportunities to fulfill their potential. Without reservation, and no begrudging. Be the loving example of a Christ-led fellow human, with mercy for all. Wouldn't we want the Lord to be merciful with us?
"And when you stand praying, if you have a grievance against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in Heaven may forgive you the wrongs you have done" -Mark 11:25
"Love your neighbor as yourself" - Mark 12:31
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DJ
God gave every human being DOMINION. First and foremost over one's own body. No one has the right to take that away or try to impose their beliefs on another. Every woman has the God given right to make that decision. It doesn't matter if one agrees with it or not. I personally choose life, but respect God's law of dominion for everyone. All life returns to the CREATOR. Judgement is for God alone.
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John Maher
AMEN, WELL SAID REV. DONNA,DEBORAH ALEXANDER GIOELLO, A MIND and a HEART is RARE in THIS tRUMP ENVIOREMENT, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY CRIMINAL TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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John Owens
What about the baby's dominion over its body?
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John Maher
DEAR Mr. JOHN BOOGER OWINS, WHILE the FETUS is in the WOMB of the MOTHER it is in the DOMINION of the MOTHER and THEREFORE the CHOICE of the MOTHER, LOOK at WHAT YOUR MOTHER BROUGHT FORTH, HOLY SHYTE, F..KT..D.....DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY CRIMINAL TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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John Owens
She should have dominion BEFORE she gets impregnated, Maher. AFTER is late enough that a life must be TAKEN.
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Jaded Mage
wow, nice seeing how kind, compassionate and empathic people there are here.
Can't wait to hear the horror stories come out of Kentucky when women and girls get impregnated and are forced to carry when they really want no part of it.All of the those that say they are pro life, will it make you happy seeing children being dumped, beaten and neglected and murdered after they take breath? I hope not, but tell me what will you do when this comes to fruition? Because human nature is predictable and you know as well as I do, where there is a will, there is a way, you take away the clinics they will still abort or abuse...
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John Owens
Why does it have to be either kill them early or beat them and kill them later? Who set that up? Pro-life people don't believe in child abuse or human trafficking. What are you talking about?
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Jaded Mage
because people that do not WANT a child enough to consider the option of abortion are not going to take care of that child, if they are forced to keep it. Sure they could put it up for adoption but even with abortion being the law of the land still, there are 1000s of kids that never get adopted and end up in foster homes where again, they get abused, neglected and are just a check for a lot of people. Don't you read or watch the news?
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John Owens
Don't be obtuse. I read more, listen to more news (seldom watch TV), than most people, but you keep touting abortion like it is the obvious choice. It IS a choice, but you only put out two possible scenarios for an unexpected pregnancy-- abortion or a life of abuse and neglect. There is a VERY obvious third option, which would be taking care of that child and teaching him or her to be a good, responsible, kind and decent human being, teaching by example.
I would submit to you also that growing up in an orphanage or foster system is preferable to death and total obliteration.
The IDEAL thing, of course, would be to control one's own body BEFORE one becomes pregnant, although I know, that just seems like an insane suggestion to people that anyone would actually do that, but people have really been practicing that very thing for thousands of years.
One of my own grandmothers was an orphan, born sometime after 1890. I'm sure that to you, my life has no meaning whatsoever, nor that of my siblings, but if Granny had been aborted or miscarried, none of my family would be here, nor my nieces and nephews, my own children, my own beautiful grandchildren. To ME, when you kill one, you wipe out a whole family tree.
I understand you thinking abortion is merciful, and I am sure there are cases for both abortion and euthanasia, but it would require a certain lack of hope, which is not really justified in MOST cases. I don't think you are stupid or evil, but I feel that your perception is just a lot darker than mine. I don't believe in rainbows and unicorns or any utopia or holding hands and singing Kumbaya but I cannot reasonably make a determination as to the value of an innocent person's life, what the future may hold for them. It MIGHT be bleak. It could be horrible. It could just as easily be wonderful, or at least, normal, maybe even extraordinary. If we abort without some pressing cause, we eliminate all the possibilities FOR them. That is a choice that no one is really qualified to make, because they do not have the information to make it, since we do not know the future.
I don't think I will change your opinion on anything, but I would ask that you consider what I have said. I did not come to my present frame of mind in a cloister or cave or on a farm, nor in a seminary. I think a lot.
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John Maher
YEAH ! RIGHT J. BOOGER OWINS in YOUR MIND, BRAINFARTs or TRAINFARTs, DOESN'T MATTER from YOUR MIND IT'S ALL SHYTE ANYWAY, DUMP the WHITE SUPREMIST tRUMP, the COWARDLY IGNORAMUS CRIMINAL TRAITOR tRUMP and ALL WHO FOLLOW the NAZI, FACIST, ALT-RIGHT like tRUMP
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Jaded Mage
I'm not really obtuse, i'm just speaking in reality and the climate of the populous today.
In a perfect world you are absolutely correct, the 3rd option would be to keep the child a raise them to be a good caring, responsible person. Personally, that would be my decision for myself If I had to make it, when I was younger.
BUT the majority of people that actually get an abortion are either young, on drugs or the poor and they don't want the child.
I have seen my share of drug addicted babies and children starved and stuffed into suitcases among other things. To live a life of nothing but hopelessness and helplessness and suffering, you can not think that is a better idea. From reading your words I know you are not without compassion and empathy.
But what it really all comes down to is Personal Responsibility and Decisions.
People, all individuals, should and do have the right to decide for themselves what is good for themselves and that includes having or aborting a child. It doesnt really matter what you or I think when it comes to someone else's life. We don't walk in their shoes, we don't know what their circumstances are, we can not make that decision for them and we shouldn't.
People need the right to choose.
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John Owens
To be honest, I also think there should be a choice, but it should not be a decision made in a cavalier manner. I also think voters should have a say-so. If a majority of them decides one way, then that should become the law, so long as it does not contradict the Constitution. Any citizen worthy of being a citizen will vote their conscience, not necessarily their own self-interest. That is all that can reasonably be asked of them. If their conscience is informed by their Faith, then so be it. If it is informed by the mainstream media and social engineers, so be that.
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John Maher
BRAVO JADED MAGE, NO MORE CHEAP SLAVE LABOR for the WHITE SUPREMISTS FAMILIES as the tRUMPs and the REST of the WHITE SOUTHERN GENTLEMEN of the RNC / GOP, as they SAY, WE DON'T BELIEVE in SLAVERY or WHITE SUPREMACY, WE JUST MAKE it HAPPEN WITH LAWS, PIG POLITICIANS, HEY tRUMP JUST KISS the BULLETS YOU WANT to KILL MUSLIMS WITH, YOUR A PIG !!!
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John Maher
KENTACKY should lose its STATEHOOD for BEING as TACKY as the NAZI tRUMP LEADER of the VILLAGE IDIOTS, OH' WAIT SUPREME EXALTED WHITE LEADER of the VILLAGE IDIOTS..........................................
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Jaded Mage
Actually Kentucky is a beautiful state, as all states in this nation have some defining attribute. As much as your comment made me laugh, saying things like that will never change a person's mind in any direction. I just really wish that ProLifers would THINK about the other side and care a little more about the situations some children are born into. Beaten, starved, raped, abused, If it were a choice I was making for myself, I would rather be aborted than live a loveless lonely life.
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John Maher
the WHITE BIBLE BABBLERS of KENTUCKY only want IGNORANT ORPHANS PREFERABLY of COLOR to ENSLAVE in CHEAP or NON PAYING JOBs, JUST LIKE tRUMP is trying to do with the REST of the COUNTRY, YEAH COAL MINING, WHAT a CAREER for ALL, GIVE YOUR KIDs a JOB in the MINE, Mr. WHITE SUPREMIST, COWARD, CRIMINAL, TRAITOR, NAZI, FACIS, I NEED a DICTIONARY to go on, DUMP the tRUMP
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Jaded Mage
OMG dood you make me laugh. I don't know if it's because I actually agree with you or or what but thanks for the LOL this morning.
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John Maher
THANK YOU and PEOPLE with HEARTS and MINDS must COUNTER the BIBLE BABBLE HATE and IGNORANCE, JUST LOOK @ the IGNORAMUS NAZI tRUMP
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John Maher
the ABORTION LAWS of OLD are the RESULT of WHAT and WHY you HAVE @ this MOMENT, CATTLE VOTING, this is WHY YOU HAVE the NAZI tRUMP in the W H, the STICK and CARROT, the CATTLE PROD, UNEDUCATED CATTLE MADE to VOTE THEIR WAY, the NAZI WAY, the FACIST WAY, the WHITE CRACKER WAY, the WRONG WAY, the RNC/GOP WAY, RACISM is WRONG, READ UR BIBLE BABBLERs, ABORTION is A PERSONAL ISSUE NOT A LAW ISSUE,DUMP the NAZI, COWARD, CRIMINAL, TRAITOR,tRUMP, GOD is GREAT, so is the US of A
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No. The two viewpoints cannot be reconciled. Ever. One group thinks innocent human life is sacred and has value, and another does not. There is no reconciliation for that, until one group has disappeared from the planet.
It's funny the people trying to save infants' lives are being called Taliban. That is stereo-typical name-calling from the left. Anything extreme they can think of, and the more opposite it is from reality, the better. Just like Troll, Fascist, Nazi, Hitler, etc. That's great. American Taliban. That really took a lot of imagination for a Dalek to think up. Artificial intelligence is progressing, or the programming has improved.
John, YOU have no say over what anyone else thinks, says, or does; only your own mouth is in your command. Your threatening stance about "until one group has disappeared from the planet" is ignorant, self serving and aggressive beyond belief. How are you, or your ilk, trying to save infant lives? How many unwanted infants are you feeding, educating, clothing, and tending? God, I hope no innocent child is ever in your clutches, please reassure me and tell me you have no children.
Having an abortion is not a point of view. YOU will never have an abortion. You don't have a point of view about whether or not anyone else should.
If you have not yet got the drift of what I think about your "viewpoint" let me know and I will try to communicate more clearly. As the Mother of five wonderful adult children, I definitely have experience with communicating. Ann Wood
Thank You ANN WOOD, SET ALL the VILLAGE IDIOT KNOW NOTHING MORONS to REST, SHADDUP MORONS, it SEEMS that it is the MALE do NOTHINGS that ALWAYS have a COMMENT about SOME THING they SHOULD NOT,BOOGER OWINS I tell YOU AGAIN STAY AWAY from tRUMP MENTALITY, a BIG MOUTH is JUST THAT !!! DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
Mr. Maher, please don't drink and post. It results in unintelligible comments.
Ann, you took it as a threat. It is an observation. You call me threatening, ignorant, self-serving, and aggressive.
Let's examine your statement, point by point: threatening? Show me where I threatened anyone. ignorant: Can you prove I am wrong? If not, you cannot honestly say it is ignorant. self-serving? in what alternate universe are you living, where you think I am being SERVED? I have nothing to gain or lose.
So, I think everyone here can see that you are just blathering typical pseudo-intellectual claptrap and code-words that mean exactly NOTHING, but just sound like something meaningful to YOU, just babbling so you can hear yourself in your own mind. Tell me, does it seem intelligent to you on playback?
ILK? No innocent child in my CLUTCHES? I don't belong to an ILK, and I don't have CLUTCHES. I am a wonderful father and a wonderful grandfather. YOU are the insane one here. You are spouting goon-babble.
The fact that Maher is applauding you should be a definite red flag to you that you are perilously unbalanced.
HEY BOOGER, PEOPLE are STARTING to READ YOUR DRIVEL tRUMPIE IDIOT, WHAT YOU HAVE and MAYBE SHOULD be PROUD OF DOESN'T MEAN EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD LIVE YOUR WAY / LIFE, BACK to the VILLAGE BITTIE, DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, HEY BOOGER you got a NEW CAKE EATER AIRHEAD BUTTIE, JUNE RANGEL AIN'T LOVE GRAND !!!
Please continue, Mr. Maher. I usually just iggy everything you say, but I can use you to show the others how delusional their thinking really is.
Mr. Maher, we've talked about your drinking and posting. Please stop before drastic measures are needed.
Ok, here's a fact, life is life. The Bible is clear how precious it is. I have two points to make. 1. Bro sides are wrong in how they go about this. Name calling, threats of going to hell, or comparisons to hate groups is totally wrong and against Goda word! Jesus is love and only through love and knowledge can one achieve the true closeness of God. You don't threaten and swear or. Lock entrances. This is wrong! People have a choice. It may be wrong, but it is their choice, and they have to live with it forever. 2. Thinking this possibility, that the unborn life has a purpose in this earth. Mark Twain once said "There are only two important days in a persons life. The first is when they are born, and the second is when they find out why!" The person who would be another Einstein, Mozart, Voltaire, cure cancer, discover clean energy, end disease, double our lifespan, could have been the child aborted yesterday! True they could have been a Hitler too, but there was only one of him and thousands of the other kind. A last thought. As a minister I have had to listen to women who years later regretted their secession. Have seen depression and even suicide by women so torn up because they had aborted a baby. Some had no choice. Other had multiple. Not every woman feels this, but many do. I have to remind them that Jesus lives and forgives and that the child is safe, in heaven and they can see that child again one day... this is a possibility. We as ministers must teach love and forgiveness and teach those who do not know. Once taught, not forced, but informed, each must make their own decision and that is their God given right!
Thank you for a well-reasoned and Jesus/God-based response.
I've never said we should kill abortionists. I think we should do our level best to try to convince them not to abort. Of course, we should ALSO do our level best to try to convince EVERYONE that they should not be creating unwanted pregnancies in the first place. That is not hateful AT ALL. If people really care about women who may "have to choose" between abortion and giving birth, let us all care enough to teach young men and women NOT to make unwanted pregnancies. That will benefit them in other ways, too. Less chance of STDs, better career choices, lots of things. That's LOVE. All I keep hearing is talking points.
Thank you very well said. God Bless you!
Thank you! Excellent response.
I agree with your pro-choice stance, but using religion (yes I know what site I'm on) is not a valid argument in us government due to the delegation of church and state, it is the same reason that Leviticus 18:22 cannot be used as an argument against same sex marriage. Otherwise a nice well thought out response.
If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. Leave everyone else alone.
Donald, Please don't take umbrage over my comments. I just got tired of reading all the bombast and randomly stopped here to enter my own.
It's hard for me to recognize many of the comments as comments from Christians. But I guess there are as many brands of Christianity as there are people. Seems that many believe their positions on a particular topic has come from the mouth of Christ without any intermediary, be it a book or a man. Faith is the belief in that which cannot be proved. If one has faith in something someone says, one is entitled to claim she/he is right...but it can't be proved. A person can argue aggressively, but, if I don't have faith in that person, then, to me, the person is not right. I may have my own belief, and, if so, to me, I'm right. Therein lies the problem, two immovable minds. So, I'll leave people to their own beliefs. It doesn't bother me. It would be nice, if people would reciprocate and leave me to mine. It feels that people have to militarize their arguments and descend into verbal or physical violence. We should all just congregate with like-minded cohorts...but even then there's a good chance disagreements will arise.
Now, Donald, in re-reading your comments, I disagree that the bible is clear that life is precious. If the goal of one's life is to attain heaven, isn't it better to make it as short as possible and get to heaven as soon as possible before one does something that merits hell. And, if you believe that a fetus is a life, doesn't abortion get the fetus to heaven as fast as possible? One more, if I may. I don't believe the Old Testament has anything to do with Christisnity. The god of the Old Testament is not Christ, the god of the New Testament, because Jews don't consider Christ to be god. No need to reply, Donald. I state my beliefs, but I don't try to convince anyone I'm right.
Just saying, the Bible does not teach that people go to heaven when they die. That comes straight from the pagans, who also believed in Mephistopholes who is what most consider Satan to be like. The Bible DOES teach of resurrections (yes, plural), but only those in the first resurrection become spirits right away, and that will happen at a specific moment in time.
Let's take one often-repeated thing here, "if you don't believe in abortion, don't get one, but leave everyone else alone," and apply that same logic to say, oh, I don't know, FIREARMS-- if you don't believe in private firearms ownership, don't buy one, but leave everyone else alone.
Oh, here's another-- If you don't believe in working for a living, don't work, but leave everyone else alone.
Here's another-- if you don't like my posts, don't read them, but leave everyone else alone. It is not a truly sensible argument, and you know it.
The bottom line is you are trying to take your religious beliefs and force everyone else in the country to abide by them. And before you call everyone with a different point of view the "stereo-typical name calling left" you should look at your own responses. They are full of name calling. I think the point trying to be made is it is great to proclaim yourself as "pro-life" but when people then oppose all the supports that could be given, you really are only pro-birth.
Again, I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything. For instance, I didn't try to force you to be whatever it is you call yourself, or NOT to be. I give everyone the opportunity to know my point of view, and they can take it or leave it, and by the way, I call a lot fewer names than I get called, and you really don't know much about me, but I know you don't read very well.
JOHN BOOGER OWINS, YER FULL of SHYTE and BIBLE BABBLE, TOTALLY WORTHLESS ANTIQUATED DRIVEL from YOUR VILLAGE of IDIOTs EDUCATION, DUCKING GARBAGE THROWN UPON THEE !!!
Ann and John, are you two children of our living and loving God? hard to tell, or have you two allowed a topic, to project an image that is not of God. Remember my brother and sister, only God has the right to judge all.
I agree, James, but you know, I see over an over that there is a double standard on the part of the anti-god people, and they think it is okay for them to judge and call names.
You can say any stupid thing that agrees with them and they will call you smart, but say an intelligent thing that does not agree and they will call you ignorant, hateful, bigot, anything.
AMEN MINISTER JAMES TAYLOR, AMEN !!!
Thank you ann i quite agree
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. Jeremiah 1:5
Excellent quote, Michael. If we were dealing with God-fearing people here, that scripture alone should start the healing process in the synapses of their damaged brains. Alas, they lack the necessary neurons to love and respect their Maker. They will not win.
Abortion is murder. There should not b any unwanted children in this country with all the birth control that is out there. People just need to use there brains and b responsible human beings.
Ms. wood thank you for your refreshing, well communicated, spot on point of view. So relieved there are still sane people in this world.
The only reason you are saying all that is because it represents the same view as yours, not because it was any of the things you say it was.
As Christians we do not have to like abortion. But we also do not like liars, cheaters, thieves. But GOD tell you to love them in spite of their failings. As Christians we do not have the right to tell anyone else what path GOD puts them on. You do not agree with abortion then do not get one. Its that simple. But when Christians choose to interfere with others beliefs and actions that go against theirs it wrong. Mind you own business, dislike what they may do, and do as GOD demands love the person anyways. When Christians choose to act against a person they are not acting GODLY nor Christian. They are acting as Muslim extremist and just like ISIS. So they need to really take some should searching into themselves and why they have the right to tell someone else what is right for them or how to live? Worry about their lives and paths and stay out of others lives.
Anen! Well said.
To say Christians are acting as Muslim extremists and just like ISIS is a HUGE, hideous exaggeration, since Christians are not blowing themselves up to kill people or chopping off heads and filming executions for shock effect. Not that I have heard, anyway. So, you should already know that without my pointing it out, but since you said it, I had to point it out, because some people are so stupid they will believe that without thinking about it.
Now, do we, or do we NOT try to teach our own children rules by which to live? Don't children NEED that, in order to survive and thrive? Is it HATE, when we punish our children for going against those rules? Of course not, but it is an expression of love and concern for their well-being on this Earth.
Why is it that people cannot understand that it is not hateful to tell people there is a better way? Of course we cannot make them believe in that way or follow it, but we OWE it to them to give them the opportunity to accept a different way of life or reject it. Whether they accept or not, they should not hate us for trying.
Once again, since we aren't in Kentucky, it's a little silly for us to get all bent out of shape over it. I just have to point out the BS once in a while. I can't stand for people to be smugly spouting propaganda without pointing out the holes in it.
What about the Doctors who were killed for doing a service, maybe they didn't have an abortion scheduled that day, but were there to provide clinical health care to women who couldn't afford a private doctor? I'm sure there are still groups out there hunting for these doctors. Also many hospitals perform abortions all the time, the only reason you don't picket or know about them is because they don't advertise that fact. There are many reasons for women to have theraputic abortions, several come to mind like an ectopic pregnacy or a hydatidiform mole that is cancerous or the fetus is dead and the body hasn't caused a miscarriage. Should these women be penalized for having abortions too? There is always a reason for doing something another person doesn't like, but to do away with a needed service because you don't have real facts is a shame. You want to quit the BS, then try to understand why women feel the need to abort their fetus in the first place.
SARA RAWLINS ACCORDING to the SCHOLARS or as I CALL them the VILLAGE IDIOTS, YOU are the DEVIL, ACCORDING to ME and MY GOD you are a VERY INTELLIGENT PERSON with OUT HATE,ALL I EVER HEAR from the VILLAGE IDIOTS is HOW GOD will STRIKE YOU, KILL YOU, PUNISH YOU, I HAVE NEVER HEARD of this GOD in MY TEACHINGs and I CERTAINLY AM HAPPY and DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHERE I'M GOING ALIVE or DEAD, THANK YOU SARA !!!
A) I only know of ONE doctor who was murdered, by a nut. Christians don't go around murdering abortionists, so YOU quit the BS.
B) I have never picketed anything or anywhere because I work for a living and had a family to raise in earlier years. C) Abortion clinics provide ABORTIONS, not health-care, not mammograms, not rectal exams, just abortions. That's all they do. D) NOBODY is trying to STOP therapeutic abortions, only wanton convenience abortions. E) If hospitals are doing abortions "all the time" then we have no need for abortion clinics, which are proven unsafe, unsupervisable, and unscrupulous. F) You ignore at least as many "real facts" as you claim to recognize. G) Why don't YOU quit the BS and try to understand why women feel the need to get pregnant with a BABY (not a fetus) they do not want in the first place. H) I STILL don't live in Kentucky.
AGAIN BLOWHARD BOOGER OWINS it is NOT the READING of the BIBLE it is the TEACHING of the CHRISTIAN FAMILY that STOPS HATE, BY the WAY what do you teach in YOUR VILLAGE, ONE LEARNS from HOME, FAMILY, LOVE of SAME, GOT IT LEG LEAK...........KISS the tRUMP
John-
I have read your different responses and you just do not understand why some Christians, not all, why they are being compared to ISIS. They are being compared in that ISIS is telling people how to live, what they can do, wear etc. That is what Somfe Christians are doing. They are not in need of learning a different way, or having people scream and harasss them as they enter a clinic. Every woman who enters a medical facility to have an abortion, men do not have to face this choice, they have thought about the many choices they have and have decided this is the best choice for them now. Do they regret it later, some do, some do not because they knew it was the best choice for them at the time.
You do not owe it to others to try and teach them about a "better" way. How do you know that they way they are doing things that they believe are better? I know that what I believe is best for me, but may not be for someone else. I don't try to change them, it's not my business what they believe and feel is right. It is ashame that you cannot see that.
As far as it being in Kentucky and we are not, it does concern those of us that believe pro-choice is better than anti-choice and letting Kentucky get away with this will lead it to happening in other places.
The anti-choice forces need to be stopped and when we ignore what they are doing they will try to close more medical facilities or fight to make absurd laws to close these facilities.
I also find you self-serving in your comment that until one side of the abortion issue is gone from earth there will not be peace.
I stay out of your life, you stay out of mine. We all can get along that way.
Well, you see, David, you JUST now did NOT stay out of my life. We can still get along, but by inserting your commentary, YOU are telling ME that YOU think that YOUR philosophy/attitude/way of thinking is somehow superior to MINE, so you see, WE DO OWE it to people to share our beliefs. You just proved one point which you were trying to refute. Thank you for that.
I agree that the shouting and protests are undesirable. I wish someone would tell Antifa and BLM that. I'm not saying those groups have anything to do with this subject. I'm pointing out that Christians are judged a lot more readily by people who consider themselves "mainstream" than those groups are. It's HORRIBLE and Taliban and ISIS if Christians do it, but it's legitimate protest if anyone else does it. That's whacked thinking.
Again, you repeat what someone else said, that I am somehow self-serving in a comment. That phrase doesn't even make any sense at all. How can a comment serve the person who made it? Even it could, how was it serving ME? That's ridiculous.
As always you seem to fall into the trap of considering your view of god the right one, and christians good guys.
The fact is All who give faith to an inhuman entity are traitors to all life on this planet Earth. End of story no room for argument. you either side with humanity or an unseen extra dimensional entity that feeds on the latent psychic energy of sentient life via faith.
You see there is only that fact you have to argue against and always be in the wrong when siding with that being you choose to betray your own species for by calling god and feeding with your faith.
meanwhile I am a jedi. I know there is no death, only the Force. That energy that composes all existence and proven to be real thanks to quantum physics.
Since you said you feel it is the duty of the enlightened to teach the ignorant hopefully you will now grasp how ignorant you are to have faith in the unseen enemy of all life that you called god.
And you are right about one thing, there is a line in the sand and one side needs to cease to exist. The thing is that would be your side. The Traitors.
Gods are real and they are the enemy of all life.And no they did not create anything. They where born in the same moment that the universe was. The Universe is the pond, the gods the leeches that feed on all the life within it.
Do not side with superman, but batman. Always side with batman because he is always the one who is right and in the right.
I can see the hate and animosity you carry. I pity you that. Maybe it is a result of the mental illness your meanderings depict. It was obvious from your chosen handle-- Jedi. About one half of what you are saying is unintelligible. My mother got like that when her Alzheimer's had advanced significantly. I hope that is not what is wrong with you. Perhaps a chemical imbalance in your brain that can be treated with chemicals.
But, know this, Jedi, if people like you tangle with people like me, the people like me will make beer mugs of your skulls.
Holy crap! What are you, 11-years old? There's no jedi, no force, you don't have a light saber, and you can't move s#!t with your mind. Now, grow up, move out of your parents' basement, and get a life. "I'm a jedi." Ha ha! What a joke!
Welcome, everyone, to the "John Owens knows everything and everyone else is wrong" comment section.
BOB, I HAVE BEEN SAYING that FOREVER, BOOGER OWINS is a CLONE of tRUMP I HEARD THIS from RELIABLE SOURCES, BELIEVE ME its TRUE,NO MATTER WHO SAYS WHATEVER HE is an EXPERT on it, TYPICAL VILLAGE IDIOT and LIAR.............. DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY CRIMINAL TRAITOR tRUMP, GOD IS GREAT so is the US of A, HI BOOGER OWINS !!!
Mr. Maher, THAT IS IT! You have been warned numerous times. I'm afraid there is only one thing left to do with you. They're coming to take you away. Can you hear them? They're getting closer, Mr. Maher. Closer... closer....
GLAD YOU SEE THINGS MY WAY, BOB. IT'S NOT THAT I AM RIGHT. I AM JUST MAKING OBSERVATIONS THAT HAPPEN TO REFLECT REALITY AND COMMON SENSE.
They're coming, Mr. Maher. Can you hear them?
If anti abortionists were as vehemently invested in the welfare of the children they claim to want to protect as they are with the unborn, then there would not be such a push to cut off social safety nets for children. Fund school lunch programs. Provide health care for these children. Provide day care, so their parents can work. Provide these children with an education. Don't defend the fetus and abandon the child.
That's a sweet argument, and I mostly agree, but you are saying it as if it is a counterpoint. it isn't.
Christian Fundamentalists will be in their own self made version of Hell. Its not about abortion but getting is wrong in so many ways. First, jesus IS NOT GOD! The Bible does not talk about abortion at all! They are politically motivated for the republicans. But the most disturbing thing is that they are so pro-life for the fetus but care NOTHING for the child once its been born! HYPOCRITES! all of them. The good thing is that Heaven and Hell is a christian made up thing and really does not exist at all. People will live for a while in a world of their own making. Its about where they are resonating in their consciousness. I perceive very little compassion and forgiveness from the christians. In the bible, that jesus taught 2 things. 1: Love God 2: Be kind to others. THAT IS IT! And by the way, saying jesus and the devil in just about every sentence... jesus all the time will not cut it. And that devil does not exist either. BAM!... there goes that bubble.
You're a freaking hypocrite! You're trying to teach Jesus' love like you know what the HELL you're talking about, while You are saying Christian fundamentalists don't care about kids after their born! How many ATHEIST or MAINSTREAM RELIGION orphanages have you ever seen? ATHEIST or MAINSTREAM soup kitchens? MAINSTREAM OR ATHEIST homeless shelters? MAINSTREAM anything doesn't DO anything to help anyone but themselves. All atheists know how to do is bitch and call names and criticize people who are different from them, calling OTHERS bigots, hypocrites and haters the whole time, and you are FOLLOWING THE ATHEISTS. Stick that in your references. BAM: There goes that bubble.
THAT TICKLED UR FANCY FLAMING JOHN BOOGER OWINS, SEE HOW THEY RUN, U PROFESS VILLAGE IDIOT NOT to SPEW HATE,CALL NAMES, POST FAKE NEWS, SPEAK of WHAT YOU KNOW NOTHING and THEN U POST, POOR LOST SOUL, BIBLE BABBLER.. DUMP the IGNORAMUS COWARDLY CRIMINAL TRAITOR tRUMP,GOD is GREAT so is the US of A, BEFORE YOU AGAIN POST READ ALL the CRAP U HAVE ALREADY PUT FORTH WITH FIRE and BRIMSTONE LITTLE NICKY !!!
closer... Closer... CLOSER....
You are a sad joke. Understand I do recognize the existence of the entities people like you call gods. And I call you all traitors. You side with the unseen enemy of life and can not see that truth through the fog of delusion you where programmed as a helpless child to buy into.
Charity in all its forms is proven to be about guilt not a desire to help. Any 1st year psych student can tell you about the clear causality between charitable actions and guilt.
So yes the guilty false christians like yourself do indeed practice charity as a way to ease the burden of knowing on a very subtle level of consciousness that they are in the wrong.
Just the fact you are full of aggression by the by proves you are not truly christian. True Christians are only full of love, compassion, understanding, and tolerance. They are 100% pacifist and never speak an argumentative word. The moment you attempted to argue your view you betrayed the Teachings of the Messiah.
No, Jedi. YOU are a judgmental prick. I am not aggressive here. If I respond to aggression, that IS NOT AGGRESSION, no matter how much judgmental, self-righteous goobers like you try to turn it that way. You are being evil. It is NOT evil to defend myself and point out YOUR hypocrisy and double standards. Yeah, if you call me something, I may call you something back. There is nothing you can teach about the Messiah because there is nothing that you know besides mainstream spiritual pablum, WHICH YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT BELIEVE NOR PRACTICE, or you would be a bit more honest and a LOT more humble.
I only tell you these things because you are a naughty, spoiled, self-centered, self-righteous, small-minded little child, and I want you to grow up to be a real person with a brain and a heart. So, take it as medicine, and it will do you good.
YOU just want Christians to be all nice and mousy so people like you can push them around without any blowback. Well, we've seen the results of that kind of behavior on our part. It doesn't teach you anything. The only thing you understand is behavior similar to your own, only better and stronger.
Oh my gosh! You're still here, Luke Pudwacker? Haven't you packed your Lego Death Star and storm trooper jammies yet? Your parents can't wait for you to move out so they can enjoy what's left of their very disappointed lives. Now put away that gold bikini pic of Princess Leia and let go of your little light saber and get to it! But wash your hands first!
JIM! You're cracking me UP! Little Jedi here is gonna need a safe space! Bwa ha ha ha!