Woman wearing niqab.

The niqab is both the most conservative type of Islamic attire and the most controversial. How should it be treated by a free society?


In recent weeks, coffee shops have become unexpected battlegrounds for serious social issues. First came a highly-publicized incident at a Philadelphia Starbucks in which two black men were arrested after they refused to order anything. They had been waiting there for a friend. Instead of leaving them be, a contemptuous manager called the cops. A viral video of the arrest made headlines around the country and re-energized debates on race relations in America.

“Is it Halloween or Something?”

Last week, another coffee shop story came to national attention, this one involving a Muslim woman dressed in a niqab – the traditional Islamic garment that leaves only a woman’s eyes uncovered. A male customer entered the Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf shop in Riverside, CA and began berating the woman.

“Is it Halloween or something?” the man asks sardonically while waiting in line to order. When she defiantly responds and questions his motives, the man replies: “I don’t like your religion, how’s that? I don’t want to be killed by you.” The incident was captured on video and posted to Twitter, where it has since been viewed millions of times:

As can be heard in the video, the man doesn’t get a lot of support for his Islamophobic rant. The barista refuses to serve him, explaining that he’s “being very racist.” Another customer angrily yells at him to leave the shop. He quickly exits without a fight.

Bigotry on Display

Although the Starbucks episode received far more media attention, the incident in California was striking for the brazen and unapologetic level of hate on display. The male customer almost seemed proud of his intolerance.

One wonders if he had any idea the video being filmed would go viral. Given social media’s tendency to shine a glaring spotlight on bigotry, this was almost an inevitability. What a way to become world famous…

Concerns Over Face Coverings

While the hatred on display in that California coffee shop is clearly abhorrent and uncalled for, the man’s comments do touch on an ongoing debate in Western countries: should Muslims be allowed to cover their faces in public?

Here in America, freedom of religion is a strongly-held principle. In theory, anyone of any faith should be able to wear whatever they want. But in practice, it doesn’t always work that way. Most banks, for example, require that customers’ faces be fully visible for security purposes. In that case, Muslim women must remove any face coverings so they can be correctly identified.

Others insist that normalizing face coverings (or even hijabs, for that matter) is essentially enabling the oppression of women. If we accept religious traditions that force women to wear outfits designed to shield them from society, to whom are we really doing a favor?

A woman being arrested in France for wearing a niqab

French authorities detain a Muslim woman for wearing a niqab.

European Battle Lines

While this debate might not be front page news in America, it certainly is in Europe. Muslim populations have soared across the continent in recent years, forcing governments to make clear policies regarding Islamic garb.

Over the past decade – following France’s lead – many European nations have instituted bans on facial veils in public areas. Proponents of these laws argue they send a very clear message about Western values of openness and fair treatment of women.

But opponents content just the opposite – they say banning outfits that make some people uncomfortable actually flies in the face of Western values and the very tolerance we claim to stand for.

What do you think? Should garments like the niqab be banned in public?

 

71 comments

  1. Joe says:

    Should I launch a protest because the bank wants me to take off my hat and sunglasses?

  2. Atatakai says:

    Of course it should not be banned. There is something called freedom of expression. Wearing hijab or burka are NOT profane. It is a covering, not an overexposure. It might help the situation to know the actual facts as to why Muslim women wear them. No, it is not because their men demand it.

    1. Professor says:

      Yes, it is.

      1. Atatakai says:

        Professor – Yes, WHAT is?

      2. Chaplin Allen David Alexander says:

        Should we make Catholics wash their face clean of ash? Why should we not observe Jesus’s teachings and ‘do unto others, as you would do unto me’? Isn’t that the same thing as being ‘politically correct’? And what is wrong with being civil to each other?

        1. William o Dunson jr says:

          I agree with you 100% thank you.

    2. spider says:

      On that note, I think he has the right to like or dislike anyone he feels Fit. That in itself is a freedom of expression. This is America. For now at least.

    3. Profet says:

      Public security overrides freedom of religion, expression and ALL other freedoms. Muslim women can thank the ban in Europe and Quebec to the terrorists and suicide bombers dressed like that and concealing bombs and weapons under the niqab or burka. Any man can dress like that also, his face being covered, that is another reason for the ban.
      Europe has very educated and smart people in governments, strong rights too, and they decided to ban those garments.
      After a terrorist hits US dressed like that, they will put a ban there too and public opinion will change also.

  3. Larry Copeland says:

    You are wrong about men not telling women what, when to wear ect in Muslim territory, it is a very important part of the Muslim men to be in control of their women and they are taught if your not Muslim they will be mattered for killing anti Muslim people. Fact not fiction read the Old Testament about Jews doing what God told them to do to non Israel believers. We will all answer to Gods laws on judgement day not our laws’!!!!

    1. Atatakai says:

      Larry – How many Muslim women have you actually talked with to learn what they believe and why they do what they do?

      No, Islam does not teach to kill “anti-Muslim people”. That goes against the teachings in their holy book, the Qur’an.

      1. BethKCZ says:

        Islam does not teach to kill “non-Muslim people”. It does teach to kill “anti-Muslim people” – those who try to kill them. The Koran teaches that in places where they are allowed to believe and practice freely, those nations and their people are “friendly” to Muslims.

        1. Atatakai says:

          Beth – The Qur’an allows a Muslim to do as much as kill another ONLY in self-defense. With every act of violence mentioned in the Qur’an, there is a long list of conditions which must be met prior to causing any harm to another. If any condition is NOT met, no harm must be given.

          1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

            Atatakai I appreciate your efforts to enlighten, yet you are not entirely accurate. The Prophet of Islam actually made it clear that muslims were to defend and fight for their christian fellows.

            While christians are required by their faith to be true pacifists the muslims are by their faith structure indeed intended to be warriors specifically warriors on behalf of christians.

            http://www.ptwf.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=209%3Amuslims-are-commanded-by-muhammad-to-protect-christians-and-their-churches-until-the-end-of-days&catid=86&Itemid=526

    2. John A Anderson, CD says:

      Larry, you must learn to separate what is taught by the Qu’ran from what is taught by the customs of the country. There is a great deal of difference between the two, in most locations. As an example, even the NT tells us that women should dress modestly out in public. Of course, this is the influence of Saul of Tarsis, who was raised Jewish, and brought those rules into his writings. Would you consider some of today’s normal clothing items, like miniskirts or bikinis, as modest wear?? Yet they are acceptable to wear in public, today. Although a non-Muslim, I can understand the fact that most who wear the niqab and burkha in North America do so, BY THEIR OWN CHOICE, as they are adult females who are aware of their rights. There does exist, by the law of averages, a small percentage who are forced to do so by their family, but, from personal experience, once they are out of the view of their family, they could remove it with no one the wiser. (BTW, I am of a faith that carries an AUTOMATIC death sentence in both Israel and Arabic countries, if I practice openly, so, I’ve had to hide it during my service.)

    3. T'Keren Valmaz says:

      Larry you seem avery ignorant believer. Its very clear in biblical mythology that whatever is mandated by man on earth will be upheld in heaven. So actually it will be the rulings of men that judge you even after death at the gate of heaven.

      If one believes in that stuff ofcourse;)

      1. afrab says:

        The Holocaust was legal. Slavery was legal. American segregation and South African Apartheid were legal.

        The brave people who shelter and care for the oppressed, whether in Russia, Hungary, Africa, America, or anywhere else, are almost always the criminals.

        Legality is not a guide for morality.

  4. Patrick Alfus says:

    Of ALL the faiths, iz-SLUM is dreadful. The horrifying demands engendered and forced upon others is absolutely despicable to the Nth degree! From my childhood home (in Jersey City, NJ) I literally watched THE Trade Centers get built from my bedroom back window. Also, on my way to work, I also saw them destroyed from the NJ Turnpike that September morning. Hence, I have NO RESPECT or feelings of any pleasantry for that d**n faith. While, that may not seem to be ‘politically correct,’ the dreadful actions that meKKKah imposes upon one and all – women, disabled people, gays, and so-called infidels – requires me to ensure that the followers of their profit (misspelled on purpose), mud-HAM-mud, be kept as far away from me as possible. AMEN

    1. Atatakai says:

      Patrick – Sadly, because of your lack of understanding of what Islam teaches, you have attached meaning to something which is untrue. NO Muslim is allowed to commit acts of terrorism. It is condemned in the Qur’an.

      With your comment of “Amen”, are you claiming that you are Christian? If so, apparently you are also not aware that Muslims worship the same deity (God of Abraham) as the Jews and Christians.

      Your attempts at insult toward Islam and Muslims also shows your lack of understanding, as well as a lack of empathy, all due to ignorance, whether intentional or unintentional.

      Here are just a few sources which shows how Islam and Muslims condemn such acts of terrorism you attach to Islam and Muslims, even though those who performed such heinous crimes are no more Muslim than the Ku Klux Klan are Christians. Just because they CLAIM to be does not mean they are:

      muslimscondemn.com

      http://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2017/mar/26/muslims-condemn-terrorism-stats

      http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/don-muslims-condemn-terror-article-1.3193126

      http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-39392442

      http://www.teenvogue.com/story/teen-makes-spreadsheet-muslim-groups-leaders-denouncing-terrorism

      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-09/muslims-speak-out-against-terrorism/8606296

      There are many more sources which back up my position on this.

      May I suggest you take a simple adult ed class on Comparative World Religions and learn about what terrifies you before you make more horrid and incorrect assumptions.

    2. Professor says:

      If you know anything about how the Trade Centers were built, you would know that pre-wired explosives brought them down. Keeping this in mind, who could pull off such a lie and justify murdering their own people? The Jewish Talmud is far worse than the Quran. Instead of studying this stuff for yourself, you take other peoples word for the lies you believe.

      1. Rev. Ned says:

        😜😆🤣

      2. Reverand Raymond Smith says:

        Very well said.

    3. T'Keren Valmaz says:

      Typical disgusting insulting behavior from a false christian. The KKK that you inference is a U.S. born christian centric group. I use christian only in the loosest sense as true christians are peaceful loving pacifist.

      And just as christianity has been altered and adapted to cultures so to was the faith of islam. Sharia law for example is an ancient cultural thing that predates the muslim faith by many centuries. Sharia law has nothing to do with being muslim it has to do with the region they are from.

      Try reading this if you are more then a loud mouthed bigot trolling here.

      http://www.ptwf.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=209%3Amuslims-are-commanded-by-muhammad-to-protect-christians-and-their-churches-until-the-end-of-days&catid=86&Itemid=526

    4. Chaplin Allen David Alexander says:

      Patrick, did you see dancing in the street on 9/11 as stated by Mr. trump? How many Muslims do think perished then? How about the clerics that just this week condemned suicide bombing only to be killed by one? What about that good old Baptist boy Timothy McVey and the scores of children he killed? Hate is a sickness, prayer would help you.

  5. Stephanie Willey says:

    There are a lot of Americans with really bad manners and this Niqab clad woman certainly encountered a prime example of one.
    The individual freedom to practice ones religion by wearing distinctive garments is a protected right in our Constitution, PERIOD !
    Christians wear crosses, Jewish men wear hats of several types, Muslim women wear head coverings of several designs.
    It’s your constitutionally protected right to do this. That said, I must freely admit that encountering anyone with a concealed face is initially and immediately frightening to me. I just don’t trust anyone hiding their face.
    This is of course a reflection of and a reaction coming from my own western cultural education and life experiences. The Medieval executioner wore a hood covering his face. Bad guys who bear ill will wear face masks. The KKK, REALLY bad guys wear. scary pointy masks. I was raised with these images.
    Today in America I trust that a woman in a Niqab bears me NO ill will and presents NO danger to me, but a masked face is a masked face.
    I have studied many religions, Islam among them and, coming from my own western cultural (some will say liberal) experiences I do not
    yet understand the mindset of the Muslim women who submit to this life style. I certainly could never wear that garment and live the life style it represents but then that’s no different than those among us (some commentators to this blog) who can’t ever bring themselves to
    understand or accept MY life choices.

  6. Lea Weis says:

    A lot of evil hides behind religion. I don’t feel because of anyone’s religion gets a free pass. In the protection of society..no covering of your face.

    1. HSW says:

      How is society being protected by not allowing Muslim women to practice their religion as they choose? Unless a crime has been committed and she appears to fit the description of a suspect, it’s a private thing between her and her faith.

    2. T'Keren Valmaz says:

      So if the protection of society is so paramount, and just wearing a facial garment is so threatening, how much more threatening to you are all the drunk racists gun fanatics to you? I personally have no issue with someone having their face covered. Strangers walking around armed on the other hand now that is a real threat to my life if they have a bad day or just decide I am just by my dress or beliefs someone to be killed.

  7. Canadian Yankee says:

    Masks of any type are a danger to the public. Our Constitution is a wondrous document and public safety trumps all. Many of our surveillance systems are based on facial recognition and to defeat them would cause a huge hole in our safety net.

    1. Atatakai says:

      Yankee – You must really hate Halloween, then. There are a plethora of masks around that time. I would be curious to hear what you have to say about the dangers of costumes.

      Wearing burkha or hijab are not masks.

      1. Carl Elfstrom says:

        And you better not dress like an Arabian knight to go trick or treating ! Someone might think the country has been invaded, and come after you with his AK47.

    2. T'Keren Valmaz says:

      Canyan mask are in no way a threat to me. Weapons yes, masks not so much. Makes more sense to have weapon bans than garment bans

  8. James says:

    More propaganda…. assimilate in to the American way of life, else go somewhere else. The issue is the Islamic faith has allowed and some have supported the actions of extremist. Just like yelling fire in a theater, coloring your hair pink, or wearing a nijab, it all draws attention Good and bad. That is the American way. Not crying because someone expressed the belief as you are. You wear something to make a statement he told her what that made him feel like No one was injured. As far at the store, who cares. Right to deny service. And with gay, fat, Muslim and Christian. An owner had the right to refuse service because they hate your eye color. God bless America and our freedoms and don’t let scared crybabies take them away. Ha I say..ha

  9. PAT WOODARD says:

    It should not be banned. It’s their freedom of religion, and just because the US may not or does not fully understand the FULL reasons for the cover up does not mean we should demean it or change it to suit us. There could be more reasons other than the main reasons we are aware of, making the women comfortable to cover up even in a country that does not have laws making them cover up. If we want to give the freedoms our constitution states or implies, then let them know they have the freedom to not cover up here if they choose, and nothing will happen to them by authorities.

    1. Atatakai says:

      Pat – Thank you for your well thought-out comment. I believe you are absolutely correct in your statement about one’s freedoms. It should NOT be freedoms for some and not for others.

  10. John Owens says:

    Funny. If I am riding my motorcycle and stop at any business, I am required to remove my helmet and goggles when I enter that business. That is so that my face can be recognized. It is a security issue. This kind of woman’s wear is equivalent to a balaclava as far as facial concealment. The person under it is unrecognizable. They could be anyone, male or female. If they commit any crime and get away from the scene, no one can have a decent clue of who they were. Of COURSE if they go into a business, they should be required to remove it. If they take a license photo, they should be required to remove it. If they enter an airport, train station, or bus depot, they should be required to remove it. If they enter a mall, they should remove it.

    1. Atatakai says:

      John – With what government does it require you to remove your helmet and goggles? Methinks you might just be making an assumption about this issue.

      1. John Owens says:

        Well, I don’t just make assumptions with no evidence.

        People at demonstrations can be required to remove their masks. This may go back to the old days of the KKK, or it may go even further to the old West, when armed robbers used their bandanas to disguise their faces. It has most recently been seen in the Antifa riots.

        It is posted at gas pumps and on the doors of many convenience stores and some malls that one must remove helmet and goggles before entering. If you walk in with your helmet on there is a good possibility that 911 will be called, and I have no problem with that.

        I am not aware of the particular statute or even if there is one, but a store clerk can refuse service and insist you leave. Security cameras and facial recognition are a factor here.

        If you doubt me, try walking into your local police station or courthouse with a helmet and sunglasses. No, don’t do that. I was kidding. I don’t want you to get shot, and it IS a possibility. The same is true in a convenience store.

        1. Atatakai says:

          John – We are talking about a coffee shop here, not an area where security is an issue.

        2. Dr. Ramona says:

          This is a coffee shop not a government agency you incompetent boob

          1. Jim says:

            Not sure what kind of Dr. you are but you need to work on your bedside manner or MANNERS in general.

          2. T'Keren Valmaz says:

            Jimmy Dean, Owens posting history has stripped him of any hope of being treated as other then the obnoxious and uncivil thug he portrays himself as here.

          3. John Owens says:

            T’Keren, honestly, I am no more obnoxious than you and much more civil. And, Atatakai, how is security less a concern in a coffee shop than a mom and pop gasoline station? I tell you something true from real life, and you question my grasp of reality, so I reaffirm said grasp and then you deflect to something else. And, Witch Doctor Ramona, your little statement is so asininely stupid and shallow, it seems beneath even you.

  11. Lea Weis says:

    Where is my comment? There is no reason to remover it…

    1. Lea Weis says:

      I found it…in not good in the morning..

  12. Carl Elfstrom says:

    Those Muslims need to grow up like the rest of us and realize that hiding parts of a woman has nothing to do with them having lustful thoughts. Those only exist in our minds, and no amount of clothing is enough to cover them up. “Out, out damn spot!” It hasn’t been very long ago since it was unthinkable for women in the United States to not wear dresses down to their ankles. I’ll be going to a local festival in December called Dickens’s On The Strand, here in Galveston, where Victorian era ladies will be wearing hoop dresses and large hats and long gloves. [ I’ll be wearing tails and a top hat.] I hope that will be enough to keep the Victorian gentlemen from lusting over them. We’ve come a long way. Maybe we shouldn’t rush the rest of the world to keep pace.

    1. Atatakai says:

      Carl – Grow up? Are you going to condemn the Amish, too, for dressing modestly as well? It is not necessarily an issue of lust for both the Amish and Muslim women, but of modesty, saving their beauty for their beloved.

      1. assimiliationisgood says:

        Amish men are also modest unlike Islamic males in the US. Amish women can show their faces as well.

  13. Jim says:

    I must say at first reading I thought who cares if she wants to cover her face. It is part of her religion then leave her be and let her do what she is accustomed to. However after thinking about it there is the issue of security. It is true you must remove a helmet etc. when walking into a bank. I think the same is true in airports etc with security in mind. I think that the security issue trumps the social one. Should they be able to practice their religion the way they want? Answer Yes, unless it infringes on the rights of others. Security could be looked at as an infringement on the peoples right to feel safe. As in Europe the US needs to take a serious look at other “situations or attacks” and ask has this been a security issue to date. If not, leave it be. If it has then pass the laws to protect the public. If folks who wear the garbs are not comfortable with the laws here or are not happy with the US there is always a simple answer to the situation.

    1. Atatakai says:

      Jim – There is no security issue in a coffee shop as there is in airports.

      1. Jim says:

        Not yet. There was no need for security at the Boston Marathon, I don’t think they felt a need for much security at the Bar in Florida. Or in our schools now a days. I know it was a coffee shop Atatakai. Right now you would think that a coffee shop would not be a security risk but as I said in the post the Government can look at previous attacks on our and other lands and see if wearing the garments have been an issue. I did not say we should not allow it. I have no problem with them covering their faces or whatever they want to wear. IF it becomes a security issue then we would need to make some changes.

        1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

          So banning garments in the name of security is fine, but banning weapons isnt. Ok Jimmy Dean sausages we can see that your logic circuits burned out and your whole hard drive needs to be tossed in the trash.

          You feel its perfectly fine for random people to be armed in the name of the holy 2nd even though that can include serial rapists and domestic abusers due to our flawed legal system, but people wearing facial garments oh the horror.

          1. Jim says:

            Obviously T, you cant read. I did not say ban them. Me thinks you just want to insult people with a different opinion than you, I think you need to grow up. I have actually started feeling sorry for you because I think you have real issues. There are more kids killed by texting and driving than by Gun violence in the schools. Should the government step in and take away all the cell phones. Besides that is not the issue here. As I stated earlier if it becomes a security issue then we should worry about it. Until then let folks wear what they want.

          2. John Owens says:

            A garment like in the photo could hide any small arms, sidearm or bomb or hand grenades, plus hide the identity of the person. Just saying.

  14. Paul Jones says:

    Sometimes I become suspicious that the “Universal Life Church Monastery” is some sort of a “meddling” organization that just likes to generate as much hate as possible out there, everywhere. All of these forums seem to quickly degenerate into escalating hate speech.
    Its a good thing this is on line because if it were in person, violence would certainly result. (Note; someone above already threatened to shoot another.). I guess we could call it “religion rage”. I read a famous old quote that said,” I have decided to leave religion and return to God.”

  15. Jose castillo says:

    “As for me and my father, we judge NOT by the acts of man but in the spirit ALONE”-

    Remember our rules ,, are our rules only… We do not fully understand almighty rules…. We only need to follow ONE rule …..

    Treat one another as you would have someone else treat you. ….

    Too bad there is so much HATE from FEAR and JEALOUSY that is clouds our eyes (the window to our soul) and distorts our words (a product of a hardened or a receiving heart)

    Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus would NOT and IS not proud of all of us. Return to the ONE source that provides one single river of life towards man’s kind.

    And if you dont believe in LOVE and GOODNESS then….leave this place you do not belong here you must go far away to find yourself AGAIN for you have forgotten who we are.

    You are called by The ALL MIGHTY CREATOR to progress to a higher state of vibration dont get stuck here bickering over life , death and dishonor… There is much more available to you than you think. Ask and you SHALL receive. Have faith in more than yourself. Heaven is right where you are standing and that is the place to love.

  16. Craig says:

    I find all of this interesting because there is definitely a clash of cultures and this forum is perfect for demonstrating that. There is a lot of ignorance on what is really part of Muslim traditions and the reasoning behind them. The key is education and before that can happen, there has to be the desire to want to know the truth about Muslim traditions and culture and not being content with stereotypes and misperceptions.

    Unfortunately, a lot of western perceptions of Muslims comes from the small, violent fundamentalist factions who don’t represent the larger goals and attitudes and morality. That’s what we have to remember. There are plenty of radical fundamentalist Christian groups who have resorted to violence in the USA. And I doubt most Christians would identify with them or say that they represent the basic teachings of Christianity.

    The issue of the face coverings is cultural at its core and not to be confused with larger political issues. I can see where it could be an issue for security in certain settings, but not in a public coffee shop or other service establishments. Again, people have to get past stereotypes and educate themselves about what is the truth and what is perception and media driven.

    Peace.

  17. Chief Joe says:

    Wow, talk about an offensive individual. He is a poor representative of the Christian religion and gives it a bad name. You don’t insult someone then get angry when they respond. In other life, I probably would have slapped him and dragged him out of there, after he apologized to the lady, and the staff.

  18. Ruby says:

    ULCM is opening the door for conversation. All I see are folks forcing THEIR agendas and beliefs. Our species will never be tolerant of others; that’s history continually repeating itself. Not everyone has grown up in an open belief / open opinion environment. Some are products of their parent’s beliefs and weren’t able to openly express an opposing or different opinion. I was raised somewhat that way. But as an adult I try to respect the rights of others who feel, look, act and live differently. I appreciate that opportunity and if someone has something different to say, I give them their soapbox moment to voice their opinions, perceptions, morals, ethics, etc. Ridicule and demoralizing someone for that is just wrong, whether I agree or not. “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” So quickly we condemn those who are simply different. Live and let live giving berth to those choosing a different path.

  19. sheryl clyde says:

    I love how men demand to see what a woman is hiding. There is no reason why she should be forced to take it off. If she feels safer wearing it or it is her religion leave her alone. What if it was one of your daughters and some stranger demanded that she take off her blouse? They feel the same kind of violation that your daughter would feel. So leave them the F* alone.

  20. Bill Fox says:

    I see no difference in this clothing and wearing a cross or star of David. It doesn’t prove one is God fearing. It proves the person wants to appear to be God fearing.

  21. Tom says:

    Ha ha, she looked like the black ghost from Pac Man

    1. Atatakai says:

      Tom – Way to show your deliberate ignorance and bigotry. Do you even know WHY Muslim women wear Burkha or Hijab? My guess is that you have no idea and you think that Muslim men demand they wear it (which is clearly not the case.)

      Are you going to insult the Amish women, too, because they wear bonnets for the same reason?

  22. Tikkun Olam Reb TK says:

    There is too much intellectualizing and debate over non-issues. Here in the USA there are freedoms associated with religious observances. I think this sums it up. There would be no such fuss over nudists.
    At the polar opposite end is the right of a baker to refuse business from a male couple who just want a damned wedding cake.

    “Those whom the gods would destroy they first make crazy.”
    “We have met the enemy and it is us.”

  23. Judy Riggenbach says:

    There are places where such face coverings are inappropriate in our society. any place , such as a court of law or places of high security should have at least a check point where the person must show their face briefly. I respect their wanting to continue what they feel is proper religious behavior. Some Jewish women cover their natural hair because of religious beliefs.Men wear head coverings, some wear steel bangles, there are many trappings of religion. There is nothing wrong with the Burka and to insult someone for wearing it is wrong. this man was behaving inappropriatly and was properly asked to leave the store. Faith is personal and the trappings we wear are how we chose to show your beliefs or not show them. no one should be insulted for wearing them , and no one should complain if asked to remove something that prevents identification when it is appropriate!

  24. P`tar (@IamPtar) says:

    While I don’t approve of covering your face in public, with minor exceptions for the weather, this was still wrong. It’s also not a religious act, it’s a cultural affectation. This was wrong, regardless. No excuse for this behavior.

  25. Christian says:

    Why do so many religions demand HATS ?

    Islam, Jewish, Sik, etc.

    I would thinknGOD is more interested in what is in your HEART – not on your head.

    Do you Love God and are you Happy to EXIST ?

    Kinda more important than the flesh and bone and clothing which all shall return to the Soil for recycling by worms.

    Give to the tax collector what is his,
    give to the Creator of all the Cosmos what’s HIS – your heart, your Soul, your Love.

  26. mdengland says:

    How do Islamic countries deal with it? Figure maybe half population is wearing a ‘disguise’. How do husbands, etc recognize their women? Seems there is or isn’t a in place system? If you like 25 women up wearing the garb? How does a Muslim man pick out his wife, daughter or sister. If they are all wearing same color outfit? Or is it an honor system? Sikhs wear turbins? Jews wear yamikas? Catholic women wear head coverings? Some Muslims wear headgear? Quakers wear hats? Seems there must be some common ground?

    1. assimiliationisgood says:

      Women must travel outside in the company of male relatives who keep an eye on them in most countries where women wear the full garb. In the US it is different. No OTHER religion has women covering their entire faces. NONE. The other religions that you mention also require modesty for the men but Islam does not seem to do that. I see men in shorts and t-shirts with the fully covered wives. It is hypocrisy and should not be permitted in the US. I have seen American teens being told to remove hoodies in malls but yet it is perfectly fine to have someone totally covered. NOPE. Nuns are not even that covered. In fact, most nuns have shed habits in public. If you want to move to another country, then you should adopt that country’s culture. I don’t blame European countries for banning this stuff. If sharia law is that great then live in a country that is run by sharia law. I do not mind moderate Islam one bit though. It is no different than moderate Christianity or reform Judaism.

  27. We-CARD says:

    Again…. nothing to do with Souls.

    Private Property Rights:

    Sign says, “NO MASKS” –
    you are free to wander around with a mask on outside, but if you want to perform business transactions, the shp owner needs to see you.

    If you use a credit card, you need to show your face and your 2nd ID.

    This is to ensure the Credit Card is not stolen.

    Nothing to do with mythology.

    If you are afraid to show your face in public, consider shopping on line.

    But even for online purchases you need valid identification and honest financial information.

    Enjoy your purchases!

    1. Atatakai says:

      We- It is not a mask. It is one of many ways women save their beauty for their beloved. What is so horrible about that? No, the owner does NOT need to see your face. How many stores have you gone into to use a credit card and they asked you for a photo identification? If it is, as you say, to see if the credit card is stolen, just compare the signature on the back of the card to the signature of the person signing for the purchase.

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