Alfie Evans was born to proud U.K. parents Tom Evans and Kate James in May 2016. The boy was perfectly healthy or so it seemed. At about 7 months, Alfie began suffering from chronic seizures and was admitted to Alder Hey Hospital in Liverpool. Doctors were unable to diagnose the disorder, which has been characterized as a degenerative brain disease. As Alfie's condition rapidly worsened, he was placed on life support.
Eventually, a team of physicians determined Alfie had become brain dead. Since he had no chance of recovery, they recommended Alfie's life support be removed.
But Alfie's parents refused to let their son die.
Court Battle Begins
Backed by Christian Legal Center, a pro-life organization, Tom and Kate went to court arguing that the hospital shouldn't be allowed to pull the plug on Alfie. They also sought permission to pursue treatment for their son in another country.
As the case wove its way through the courts, things weren't looking good for the family. In February, a judge ruled the hospital could legally remove Alfie's life support. The courts also ruled in favor of the hospital's decision to bar Alfie from leaving the country. Doctors argued transporting the brain-dead child would only result in further unnecessary suffering.
During this prolonged battle, Alfie's cause generated a massive online support network. The group, known as Alfie's Army, has been extremely active on social media as Tom and Kate offer periodic updates about the case. As time appeared to be running out, their response was emphatic.
Protesters Flood Hospital
On Monday, with the full backing of the court, doctors pulled Alfie off life support. His frantic parents posted on social media asking for assistance, and supporters rushed to the hospital to protest. Although things stayed peaceful at first, angry protesters tried to force their way into the hospital and had to be restrained by police.
Incredibly, Alfie was able to continue breathing on his own after life support was removed putting pressure on doctors to reconsider their decision. With media swarming outside, the hospital relented and hooked him back up to oxygen and fluids. Alfie is holding on, but his nutrition remains cut off and the overall outlook is grim.
Pope Extends a Hand
While all this was going on, Pope Francis caught wind of the story and agreed to meet with Alfie's father, Tom. The pontiff, apparently moved by Alfie's struggle, took to Twitter to express his support for the boy:
Moved by the prayers and immense solidarity shown little Alfie Evans, I renew my appeal that the suffering of his parents may be heard and that their desire to seek new forms of treatment may be granted.
Pope Francis (@Pontifex) April 23, 2018 Perhaps at the Pope's urging, Italy offered Alfie immediate citizenship and the Vatican even arranged a private jet to transport him to a hospital in Rome. All that was necessary was a U.K. judge's approval. In an emergency hearing that took place earlier today, the family's lawyer argued the request was "an application for common humanity and common sense."
But a High Court judge rejected the plea, insisting it was a futile cause and that moving Alfie to Italy would do more harm than good:
New: Alfie Evans family has lost its legal challenge to fly him to Italy for treatment in what judge calls the "final chapter in the case of this extraordinary little boy"
Josh Halliday (@JoshHalliday) April 24, 2018
God's Will or Needless Cruelty?
We've written previously about people being declared "brain-dead" and the ethical concerns attached to both leaving them on life support and taking them off.
Supporters of Alfie and his family argue that by stopping treatment and letting the boy die, the hospital and its doctors will be complicit in his death. Experts insist he cannot be cured, but what's the harm in keeping him alive? And if they're really convinced no more can be done, why not let Alfie be transported to another country and let different doctors give the case a shot?
But others argue and the courts appear to agree that Alfie has no chance at a real life. He's in a permanently vegetative state and will never recover. Why prolong the matter? Alfie's story is a tragic one, no doubt, but they insist it would be best for everyone involved if he is allowed to die peacefully.
Where do you stand?
[Update 4/26] Alfie appears to be hanging on, but the situation is becoming more critical:
[Update 4/28] Alfie's parents have announced that he passed away late last night:
121 comments
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Hoggdogg
I rember that saw it on tv its sad that a country can make a decion like that that life like that dosent care a i bet if it was their kid they would fly that kid too the best hosptail and they play god shame on them
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Douglas R O'Shea
Wesley I live in the UK and the majority of the people I know would have liked to have seen him go to Italy for further treatment. It was the courts that took the decision to allow his life support to be turned off. A decision which has divided opinion and I believe that we will see a change in the powers of the court to intervene in cases like this.
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Anita Ganser
Isn't it playing God to intervene in the process Goo had called for our bodies? Being intubated, trachs, CPR and gtubes sounds like playing God
Respectfully,
Anita
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Gary Hynous
Hello Anita, I found your response to the situation with poor Alfie and his devastated parents heart wrenching. Christian Scientist's do not believe in medicine as their beliefs are centered around prayer first and medicine later or never. Many of them end up dead! The power of prayer doesn't always work! If God is the creator of all that is, this would mean that he put the thoughts in inventors minds to devise all kinds of new devices, medical or otherwise thus we have modern technology, computers, mri's, etc. This young lad's parents faced a really difficult decision and based upon what the doctor's told them, decided to end their child's life. This isn't playing God, in my humble opinion, it's two loving parents dealing with a terrible choice. Their son was dying. They were probably running out of money and had done everything they could possibly do. Alfie was terminally ill. What would you do? The fact is that we are not to act willfully but rather pray to discover, if we can what God's will is for us. Just some food for thought. Gary
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JOLENE MARCELLA TRAVIS
Brain dead is brain dead. This boy will never go to school or learn to drive or get married and have a family. He has NO chance of a normal fully functioning life. He really is nothing more than a "Vegetable" . People need to ACCEPT what the TRUTH is.
Wesley I have no idea what you were even trying to say in your post due to extremely poor spelling and grammer.-
Rev. Brien
Jolene, with all due respect, who the hell are you to say who lives and who dies? Did some unknown deity come down and put you in charge of the death wagon? If the parents want to fight all the way to the pearly gates to keep the boy alive, who the hell is been bestowed the right to say no? If another country wants to reach out and help them, who is that harming? The boy? As you stated in your post, ",,,,,Brain dead is brain dead...", what more harm can a plane ride somewhere else do? I personally find this argument a perfect example of a court over stepping its' bounds. The fact that people are agreeing with the court is disgusting, and that is the BEST thing I can say about it.
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Terry
Thank you Brien, my sentiments exactly.
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Gary Hynous
Brien, I absolutely agree with you. Thanks for your post.
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Fay Fleming
Greetings Brien, I live in Australia and I watched my sister fight to keep her son alive, similar situation to this little one. She did everything within her power to keep her son alive. Seven years she nursed him before he eventually passed away. In this time his brothers had time to grow up somewhat and were then better able to understand why their young brother had died. My sister and her family do not regret one second they had to spend with my nephew. Some people need to have a bit more compassion and a lot less judgement.
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George Figueroa
I think I couldn’t have the strength to fight. But I agree this should have been the parents decision and no one else’s.
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Marie Hatch
I totally agree with You, Brien!!!
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John J.
No, Jolene, is right. If the parents objected to blood transfusions would you still be saying it was there choice? The child was being kept in simulated life by a machine. He was dead and we were just mimicking life functions. Usually, this gives the body time to repair and the persons life could go on. That was not the case here. If you think we don't make decisions about who lives and who dies every day your are not paying attention. Usually we are further removed from the consequences but what we decide matters.
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Dr. Griffith
Thank you John. A sane voice among the masses who use only emotion to make, support, or not support decisions. Nice to have another person who lives in reality.
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Candie F
John J, I agree with you and Jolene. And I'll say one thing:
If I am ever brain dead, for God's sake, let me GO!! I would NEVER want to be on life support and end up a vegetable for the rest of my life. To me...being a vegetable is NO life at all. I mean really...how happy do you think a vegetable is?
People only keep their loved one's on life support for one reason and one reason only...because they're selfish and don't want to let them go.
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Yve
Totally agree. Well said
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SeekerOfTruth
__ 183 Coffins For Idaho Children Killed By Faith Healing Parents __
Protesters marched to the Idaho Capitol Monday bearing 183 child-sized, symbolic coffins, which they stacked on the Statehouse steps as they called for Idaho lawmakers to repeal the state’s faith-healing exemption. That law spares parents from criminal or civil liability if they deny their children medical care and the kids die. The protesters said at least 183 Idaho infants, children and teens have died since the exemption laws were enacted by the Idaho Legislature in the 1970s. -
Seth Cunningham
Thank you Brian my thoughts exactly.
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Corinne Geller
I don't know if my comment just posted prematurely DUE TO A TABLET OR SOFTWARE ISSUE. (BTW: This also happens quite frequently when writing text. It causes unintentional, frequent spelling and grammatical errors.) So I'll try this again.
Wesley, I completely understood you and am in agreement. Thank you.
Jolene, your comment was extremely cruel and judgemental. Try to remember that this is a faith-based website. Try offering NO judgement, but only forgiveness, and unconditional compassion in your comments.
As Tony Clark said, "Stop the hate talk".
If that's where you're at, leave the Universal Church and post your opinions elsewhere. I think most of us joined this ministry because it stands for universal love: opposed to religion, which can be judgemental, exclusionary, opinionated and even hateful. Thank you.
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Dr. Griffith
I have no idea where the hate is in Jolene's post. It is the truth and it seems you are the narrow minded one for not accepting another's opinion.
If you were referring to her comment about Wesley, I agree with her, but she could have written it a bit nicer.
Relax, you're getting way too emotional.
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SeekerOfTruth
> I think most of us joined this ministry because it stands for universal love: opposed to religion, which can be judgemental, exclusionary, opinionated and even hateful.
No, this registry is for all religions and none. It tries to cover the broadest range of beliefs. Obviously it is not part of any of the 'official' religions.
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Carl Elfstrom
There is such a thing as a head transplant now, I recently read.
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Gary Hynous
Really, now I can get rid of my aged face and and trade heads with Richard Gere.
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Carl Elfstrom
With the face and the head goes the brain, so some body else would be in your body, Gary. But don't worry, even Abbey Normal would be an improvement, if Igor took that one by mistake.
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Carl Elfstrom
It sounds like you suffer from a poor self image, Gary. You might try addressing that in therapy before seeking a new face.
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Gary Hynous
Amusing comments. You're taking yourself much to seriously. You need to learn to laugh at tongue in cheek humor I'll match my self image with yours whenever you like. This whole conversation is a waste of my time and yours. Peace out good people.
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Carl Elfstrom
Some people are more defensive than others, especially when it hits home. It sounds like Gary's been watching Annie Get Your Guns. ....I can do anything better than you. No you can't ! Yes I can ! No you can't ! Yes I can !
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Carl Elfstrom
I spent a week slipping in and out of a fourth level coma caused by a left periorbital contusion more than twenty nine years ago, and my doctors prognosis was very grim. I sure am glad they didn't pull the plug on me. I came out of it on Christmas day with my Christian mother in the room praising the Lord.
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Colleen
Thank God! Bless you and your Mom! No one has the right to play God!
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Janice A Ellery
If another country is willing to take him and pay for it,then it should be the parent's decision.
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John Owens
A very sad case, but a very good example of why government should not be involved in health care.
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Carl Elfstrom
I'm not exactly a christian, and prefer to think of it as Magick of the Goddess and God instead of miracles, but too many such things have happened in my life and in the lives of many others for me to consider for one moment that even a dead brain could'nt be restored. And what if those doctors made a mistake, as they sometimes do,and that boys brain is'nt as dead as they think. Twenty nine years ago, while I was in a coma, my neurosurgeons told my parents that I would be dead within a week. Then they said I'd never walk without a long leg brace. I only wore it for eight months, and have gotten up to riding a bicycle nineteen miles a day since. I also have a dislocated and crushed knee and patella, and four of my ligaments and all of my tendons in my left leg were extremely torn in that motorcycle accident, according to Dr. Frank Ivy at U.T.M.B. in Galveston. Don't bank on the so called medical profession.
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Carl Elfstrom
Now I'll tell y'all something impossible. At one point during my hospitalization my nurses claimed my temperature got as high as 110 degrees. If that's true we already know of one dead brain that was restored, for mine would have been fully cooked.
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John Owens
That's an inspiring story, Carl.
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Tom B
Unless there is irrefutable proof of suffering, with no chance of recovery, the courts and government should stay out of the problem...Tom
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Carl Elfstrom
My grandmother, Ethel Lorraine Grave Elfstrom was strapped to a bed for years at St.Dominic's Nursing Home in Houston,in the final stages of Alzheimer's disease, totally out of it, without any hope of ever getting better, but the government never once sought to intervene. At least that boy has youth on his side, and maybe before he is old and gray they'll find a cure for him. It only seems impossible before it happens. There is a first time for everything. Never give up hope.
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Gary Hynous
Hello Carl, I want to clarify something in our recent series of comments on this blog. I am a spiritual person who has an interest in this site because it provides important information and support to people who need help and are looking for spiritual insights. You and I have only a limited knowledge of each other so I don't take offense to your remarks. One thing we do have in common is our desire to become ordained. I'm not sure that you have taken this step yet but if you have I do respect you for that decision. If I angered or offended you in any way with my remark about a head transplant please excuse my botched attempt at humor. Your recovery and healing was a true miracle and for that I'm happy for you. One of the many reasons I am ordained is that for a mere $29. I can be ordained and get a marriage certificate to marry our oldest daughter. When she asked me if I would do this I was thrilled. Good luck with all your future pursuits. Perhaps one day we'll meet and shake hands if this ministry service ever holds a convention. Gary
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Carl Elfstrom
Thankyou Gary. I appreciate that sir. I hope you have a successful ministry. I was ordained on my birthday, February 14, 2017. I think it is a prerequisite to be an ordained minister of ULC to post comments on this blog.. A ministers convention sounds like a good idea to me too. Yesterday I saw a very good movie. I believe it was called The ShawShank Redemption or something similar. In it I learned that if enough letters are written to the right people a lot can get accomplished. Good day, sir.
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Carl Elfstrom
This blog is a good replacement for A.A. meetings, and is much more meaningful too. After 34 years of going to meetings you can rest assured I'm telling the truth. Cheers !
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Carl Elfstrom
Please don't take everything I say seriously. I have a dry, sometimes sarcastic sense of humor, and am quite humorous. It helps to read between the lines.
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Gary Hynous
Hi Carl, Thanks for your message. I too have a dry sense of humor so I'll read and respond to your comments accordingly. I too am a friend of Bill Wilson. Amazing! I do appreciate your honesty. Gary
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Carl Elfstrom
Truthfulness and honesty are not the same things, but rest assured I am also true to myself, and very introspective. Writing all those personal inventories has helped immensely with that. Otherwise, I'm just not shy or reserved, although there are times when I wish I had been. And that's why I appreciate the good ol' ULC moderating my comments.
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adrian stocks
People saying that by turning off the life support the doctors are playing God have their facts twisted. By keeping on life support they were playing God.Once they turned off the machines it was truly in Gods hands and God let him die. God made the decision to let him die not the doctors, the doctors merely decided to leave the final decision to God. It was Gods will, it was Gods way, why do you question it.
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Colleen
If you had no nutrition for a number of days you would die too, I don’t think that’s Gods will to starve our children to death. He breathed on his own without machines they withheld all nutrition to get him to die.
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Lizbeth M
I completely agree. All I kept thinking about is exactly this. He’s starving on top of all of this! Cruel. It’s a heartbreaking situation. Parents should be allowed to seek alternative treatment. Anything can happen, anything is possible. He’s a beautiful child who deserves time & patience.
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Corinne Geller
Thanks Adrian. So true.
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Rev Adrian
Had the pope prayed directly to God to restore the child to health "ask and you shall receive" etc. Then it would have been proof of a god. Possibly irrefutable. The pope knows why he took the direction he did instead of paying for a miracle from God.
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Michelle Corson
The child had a disease that literally turned his BRAIN to water. His death was slow and painful via suffocation. As a mother and one whose lost a child close to me due to this disease, I 100% agree with the doctors.
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Amber
This isn't playing god. This is about knowing the limitations of being a doctor. If there is nothing more they can do and and everything they were doing was not changing or helping, that's it. Taking the child off life support was putting that child entirely in Gods hands. This child wasn't just in a coma, it was brain dead. Coma patients have some brain activity. This child had nothing.
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Rev.Dr.Karen ORourke,JD,MDiv,SJD
Thank you Amber...key brain function to be distinguished, this child had no brain capacity whatsoever at the cellular neuro level and was permanently incapacitated blocked neurologically --- which is quite different from having a full functional brain capacity that is temporary impaired (coma) because of an accident or virus,etc....been an RN for 40+ yrs and most people really struggle with the fact that these ethical issues are always tough but the right decision was made....my suggestion to the parents is genetic counseling before trying to conceive and bring another child into this world.
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George Figueroa
I couldn’t imagaine having to decide that for one of my kids... god forbid any of us do. I’m out for now folks, name is George, god bless and have a great day.
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Mark Ownby
The doctors have the right to discontinue treatment when they have reached the limits of what they can do, and if the government is paying for the treatments they have some say in when it should stop. My biggest disagreement is the courts not allowing a willing country to try to help.
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Douglas R O'Shea
Despite disagreeing with the court decision, the courts of the UK took the decision to withdraw life support in the best interest of the child to prevent further suffering based on the advice that no more could be done to help Alfie.
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Dr. Geoffrey C. Olive
Cherry picking about whether the doctors’ decision is morally or medically correct is pointless if your God is part of the equation. If you believe in a sky daddy, then it created this sad situation in the first place for its own reasons! Praying obviously didn’t work, so the doctors’ efforts were futile from the start. If you don’t believe in a god, then you must accept that modern medical science has exhausted all possible solutions and nature should be left to take its course. Letting this child remain on a life support machine is a futile and cruel exercise, as is hoping for a miracle from a non-existent god. If the Pope is willing to let Italy try to save him then let it happen, and also face the consequences if it fails. No doubt God will get the credit for success (“It’s a miracle, praise the Lord!”) and the doctors will get the blame for failure. Wait for the usual, “God works in mysterious ways. “‘ “God’s will...”, etc.
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George Figueroa
So it seems you don’t believe in god? Or at least you’re comment is coming off that way, so I ask why are you here?
If I don’t like Boxing, which I don’t, I won’t go to a boxing website to comment on how I don’t like it. Is this what has become of trolls? Having to come to ULC to try and shoot down peoples faith?
I’m not your normal goody too shoes christian I will put you in your place. Out of respect for others I won’t. But I will tell you a story about the WWE, they used to be called the WWF and lost the rights to use that name, so they changed to the WWE and ran a campaign that had a catchphrase and t-shirt that read “WWE- Get the F out” let’s see if you get the point.
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sheryl A clyde
It is hard to justify leaving someone on life support that is brain dead as being God's will because the very act of keeping them alive artificially is not what would happen if he were allowed to live or die on his own. As a EX CNA I have watched elderly people being kept alive artificially and know that they are suffering. To me it is all kinds of cruel to see someone trapped in their body with their minds dying on them, being confused, and in pain. It would be so much more merciful to allow them to pass naturally. I am not advocating medical suicide. I do think that we should allow God to take His children home when it is time and stop keeping them here long after they should have left.
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Kathy
My heart goes out to this family, so very sorry but we must remember that the Doctors did not give this child the illness, the Physicians tried to do all that they could for the child. And if it is God will for us to leave our human bodies for a Heavenly peace then we must accept this. I see this in the Job that I do everyday and people hang on to a body that is not really the person. And it is truly sad.
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Oh Mo
Come, ULC, this is ancient "news". For Goddess' sake, become relevant.
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CRAIG
One, doctors give diagnoses and suggest treatments. Parents of children have the ultimate responsibility of making the final decision. And ultimately, they have to make these types of decisions and live with that responsibility. So let's not start judging people because the critics aren't living in their shoes. And from a religious vantage, it's not anyone's job to judge in the first place. That is reserved solely for the divine because people are flawed and as much as they like to follow religious doctrine, they cannot see the bigger picture like the divine.
Now, this particular issue is only an issue because we have the technology to intervene on the body's behalf. Fifty years ago, perhaps more, it would have been a moot point. In these cases the child would have died. Period. So now do we have the right to sustain life at all costs just because we can keep blood pumping to the brain? My answer is no.
One, I believe the soul exists within the body, but the body itself is only a vessel for the soul. In death the soul shrugs off the mortal body and moves on. So, keeping the body alive serves no purpose for the soul beyond a point.
Secondly, if this is a true test of the divine, then remove life support and let the divine intervene. That solves it. Again, people are incapable of seeing the bigger picture. People are creations of the divine--the divine works through its creations. We now have the ability to extend life and quality of life through medical technology, but with that comes a responsibility to know our limits. Just because we can keep a body alive, does that serve the soul?
It's an individual question and it's up to the family. Not the rest of us. We're not big enough to judge it. And the divine has left this decision in individual parents hands because of our inability to solve every medical problem. There is a reason for that. Judge your own self and no one else because you don't have the wisdom to judge everyone else.
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Abdullah
We only see that this is a baby but do we know the pain he gose true everyday his budy has allredy prepeared to meet his maker it wasn,t god who sed death is like a theef in the night no man knows the hour or minet he/she wood pass so to try and sheet death from doing his job is a sin it self the baby wood only sufer the longer he stay on life sopourt
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Tony Clark
Common sense tells us (as well as science) that our brain controls our organs and tells them when to work what to do and if there is something wrong? Now God! Has created our bodies to listen to what it tells us, such as to eat when hungry, that a strike will cause some degree of pain and so on. Thus young boy was placed on life support due to an assumed brain dead state? If that were completely true then why did they stop the feeding and hydration of the child? It would not matter if he was truly brain dead correct!!!! The Dr's played God and used the lack of Knowledge of the courts to minipulate the facts. And because of the courts lack of knowlwdge and experience on the subject they fell to the belief of what Dr's told them. Now I truly believe God showed that this boy under his watchful eye would have sustained further if they(dr's) would have treated him and allowed his young body to heal. Did he have more seziure in the comma? Did his organs shut down when he was hydrated and fed? Did he display signs of deterioration when fed and hydrated? If the answer is no then Humans made this case worse by not taking God's lead. There is only one expert of human life, and they (drs) didnt listen him.
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David L Byrd
No human being, not doctors, not judges or anyone else should try to second guess Gods plans and purposes. Whatever time a human life is with us is a time to be cherished.
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Wayne Stevens
My sentiments exactly may God bless you
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Diana Lee McAnsh
This child should have been given every opportunity for life. Help was offered, no one has the right to dictate life or death to parents.
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Rev William Dorsch
It should be up to the parents to decide what care is necessary for their children, not any government or court...
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Wayne Stevens
Once more my sentiments exactly may God bless you
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Marguerite Rathbone
Death is NOT the worst thing that can happen to a person. Life support IS artificial and is playing God. Taking him off still allows God to intervene. My Love & Blessings to him & his family and friends. Marguerite RN.
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Milly
After becoming a mother recently I understand the love for your child, the bond all of it. I agree with what the doctors done, if poor Alfie was brain dead he deserved to be let go with dignity, which is what happened.
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Jim Mitchell
Under normal circumstances, my belief is, once a patient is brain dead removing life support is not playing God. Rather, it is putting it into God's hands!
However, this situation is somewhat outside of the norm. Once life support was removed this child continued to breathe on his own. Once the medical staff made the decision to put this child back on life support they should not have denied him the nutrition necessary for his body to try and heal itself.
Additionally, I can find no compassionate reason under the final circumstances for the courts to deny the petition to allow that child to be flown to Italy and examined by other doctors. This act specifically was cruel, unkind, and lacked either love or compassion. And while this child may have been fated to die regardless, it would have eased the parents suffering to know that they had done everything humanly possible to try and save their child.
And lastly, I totally agree with everyone who spoke before me that the life support decision belongs to the family. Not to the doctors, and unless the family is divided the courts should play no role in this decision either! And in this particular case, both parents were in total agreement and neither the courts or the doctors should have been allowed to intervene!
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Ana
I am divided in this issue as I do not know enough of his illness but if there is a slim of a doctor helping him; making his life better then by all means the child should be allow to travel with his parents. I do not understand England with the mingling in people health and things like that. This is like the second or third case of a child being left to die.
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Breanah
I hope this baby gets all the care he can get. Let him be on life support! Let him keep trying to live!! If the family is willing to try, let the baby be on life support. The baby isn't showing signs of wanting to be taken off, ie, organ failure.
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Warren Wall
Just observe the entire situation. This is the result of putting the government, ANY government, in charge of your health care. It doesn't matter what you call it, universal health care, single payer health care, social medicine, it doesn't matter. What matters is that a government agency, ministry, whichever, has the final say on whether you live or die.
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Thomas Lightning Bolt
should they play God? they already do! But in most cases they are actually playing the DEVIL! deliberately poisoning and killing their patients! In fact, they steal my medical care, and give it to the boarder jumpers!
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James j
I read a couple of articles about this. The interesting part of this story compared to others I’ve encountered is that the pope himself was willing to take on the responsibility for The child ! Yet the court refused him ! This move by the court is truly a vanity thing for the British. Even if they were right and the child would have died, I believe this was a foolish move by the judge an the court!!
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Bill Fox
Free government healthcare has unintended consequences. A parent needs to understand their rights before having children, and if they want control of the child's destiny, they may need to move to another country and foot the bill for having and raising children, rather than relying on the state.
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ActionsAreGreater
If the courts had already decided he was going to die and would never have a life worth living if he did survive, then why prevent the parents from taking their child to somewhere that wants to attempt to treat him? He's already dead in their eyes so it should make no difference whether he dies in the U.K. or dies in Italy. All those judges did was victimize the parents by denying them the right to make medical decisions for their baby. I know if it were me I would forever wonder and be tortured by that knowledge that someone prevented me from helping my baby.
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Jlynne
Government doesn't have the right to play God in our lives. This is the result of socialized medicine and citizens becoming subjects of the state.
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Don Wilson
Amen to most comments and " really " to a few others . GOD bless all !
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Rev. HP Lady Fire Star (Laurie G. Cleveland, RN, BSN)
I'm going to give you the perspective that I gained as a home health RN. When I first started in home health, I would do block time nights as my husband worked days so that my daughter would have some semblance of a life with her parents. So, many of the kids I had 2 stood out. The first was a young lady who had literally no skull in spots. She was on a feeding tube, was on a vent and really had no quality of life. The mother told me once that had she known what would happen later, she would have let the child go. The problem with children like this young lady is that while the mum is concentrating on the sick child, her brother, younger than she and her husband and an older child were getting no attention so that the marriage and family felt apart. I felt sorry for the little boy and would often play a board game or something with them. That is until the father, who didn't realize how much anger this boy had, pulled the knife on me and held it up to my neck. I quietly told him that he needed to remove it and that I wasn't the problem. He did and then he gave it to me. I took it and when the dad came home (he was a muscian) I gave him the knife and told him what had happened and strongly suggested that the kid not have it again. The second child was heart wrenching. He had microcephaly, which means small brain. There is a saying with these kids that they are more right than wrong as far as how they act, etc. The nurse who had the 3-11 shift and the ear of the parents said that the kid couldn't tolerate the full strength feeding. I had reported him for having the baby with his head down getting fed via a j-tube (the tube goes through the nose and stomach and into the jejunum which is part of the small intestine. So I would come in at 11 PM and the child would immediately open his eyes and smile at me. Trust me. That kid could eat. He had his own schedule and if the 3-11 nurse would have paid attention more to the child, he would have known this. So, he got fed at 11, 1 or 2 in the AM and the last was generally around 5AM. I was naturally upset at the decision to water down his feedings. In other words, starve the child to death I didn't think that was right. I still don't. I will always speak my mind when I see an injustice and this was one. Yes, they had a normal son. This child was microcephalic because the mother was on anti-seizure medications and didn't realize she was pregnant until after the third trimester and they were practicing Catholics, if my memory serves me correctly, but that is a moot thing. I don't consider myself a Right-To-Lifer and I do believe in treating each case as it comes along, both pros and cons. Nobody can make an Informed Consent until they understand everything and it is a parent's first knee jerk to say "Save my child." At any rate, I was the nurse on duty just before he passed. When I put him down for a second, he would stop breathing, so he spent the entire night atttached so to speak on my bosoms. Around 3 AM, he smiled and me and attempted to play and then closed his eyes and went to sleep again. I literally handed the baby to the nurse coming on for the 7AM shift and told her not to put him down because he would stop breathing. He had been starved down to critical mass, which means once you hit that, death is inevitable. Sort of what happened at the concentration camps in Germany. It was like losing a child because for those 8 hrs. I'm responsible for him while his parents slept. I still get upset about it today because that nurse and those parents were playing God. There are many reasons why these things happen. Sometimes it could be a karma thing. Sometimes, who knows? It's always sadder when the courts have to step in. The difference between the first picture of a healthy child vs. the second picture of a non-healthy child were striking. My daughter lost a baby, Joshua, just before he was born. It was a tragic situation, especially when the doctor whom she saw post-partum said, "I could have saved that child, but I chose not to. He clearly played God. That is unacceptable in my opinion. I can understand the parents wanting to keep their son going, but the truth of the matter is that his soul had already left the body and perhaps the lesson here is that, even if it is difficult, do you keep the child going for your own needs or issues or do you let him go, because its the right thing to do. It's a hard decision for any parent to make, but when the courts have to step in, it makes it even more difficult and they become bitter and angry. In truth, God was being merciful. They didn't have to go through what the first set of parents went through. There is something that I always say. "When the last rays of light are about to be extinguished, love's ray lingers." The other thing that I ask for is healing and that angels wrap their wings around the grieving family members and friends and offer them comfort and solace. Will these parents ever forget this child? No. They have to move on and maybe they'll have other children that are born healthy. But I will say this. Isn't it odd that one minute, the child appears healthy and the next, he is in a coma and brain dead. I would certainly be asking for an autopsy to find out the cause and see if it were something the child inadvertently god a hold of or it was genetic. But I would also be there for them through the entire grieving process which can take years. The biggest problem that could kill that marriage is the blame game, but they should take comfort in that his death was a peaceful one and that they did everything they could for that child. That means they are wonderful parents and people.
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sheryl A clyde
I have to say that letting a child that has a disability but is clearly alive and functioning starve to death is murder and wrong. A child that is showing no electrical activity in his brain is basically brain dead and even those may keep breathing for a little while on their own. Breathing is controlled in the most primitive part of the brain so there is no higher functioning there. That kind of circumstance is heart wrenching because the machines mimic life and the body muscles twitch occasionally which misleads the relatives to think that they are indeed still in there. I can sympathize with the parents being one myself. But I can think no worth fate then being trapped in a body and not being able to move, talk or communicate with anyone. It would be solitary confinement with people talking at you through a door.
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sheryl A clyde
worth should have been worse.
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Ron
Where did the Pope get his medical training? People with actual medical knowledge had determined there was no chance of recovery. Why would they listen to any lay person regardless of what title they hold. And yes. In regards to medical expertise the Pope is just a lay person.
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Father Fred
While there may have been no chance of recover, what gives a medical establishment and government the right to keep a child from dying in his own home, or accepting assistance from another jurisdiction?
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mariasdementia
This is so sad. RIP Baby boy.
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crazy greanya
always someone makes every thing a black or white thing----this is why we still have this problem---their is no color--we are ALL gods people---the problem we have is governments are over stepping--they are all thinking they are god----their is a point to witch one must step aside---and let god do his work we need to get this in our brain---we need god in our harts-in our homes--our schools in our LIFE
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corsair red
For those of you who may want to further examine the ethical issues involved in end of life cases. This is by a doctor. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1255938/pdf/bumc0018-0303.pdf
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Rosemarie Ortiz
Doctors absolutely not play GOD!!
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ValdezINC
There is only one Alpha and one Omega. Revelation one, I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. "King James Version" Instead of playing god? Be the best medical provider one can be! This alone will change lives, Selah. This is good, love thy neighbor as thy self. That's it, just that simple. Be blessed. Peace to this family Amen.
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Minister Grant Nicholls.
This child is already dead. Let it move on to the next phase. Minister G.Nicholls , Australia.
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DJ
God bless them. A parent's job is to do the best for their child & they have the right to make decisions. Whether anyone agrees with them or not, is irrelevant.
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Richard Cornell
I like what the Pope said, but since he was not footing the hospital cost then what ever he says means little. Science kept that dead person (child) breathing. If you think that God could or would have started the child breathing on his own to jump up and run around the hospital room to to do everything as a normal child would do then why did it not happen.Did the parents not ring enough bells sing songs or pray hard enough. They did and all I heard is silence. So either God is out for lunch or maybe God does not care one way or the other. Worst no God!
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Richard Cornell
I have a problem when I'm ask for the answers to questions about why God does this or why God does that. That I have all the solutions about why people died and why children die so young or why there is so much suffering or why is why not answer. Think about 200 years ago people died from a common scratch on the hand. They died from a host of diseases that are not common today in the USA. Small Pox killed thousands as did Cholera. Yellow Fever did a great job. Polio something that happen ever summer and all the praying and people still got it.
Before 1957 Polio was a common occurrence in the USA. Small Pox was totally wipe out in 1980. Not one in his right mind would drink straight out of a river today with out treating the water first. Most rivers of the world are not safe to drink out of even if you had a Bible in your hand. I was born into an era where science has kept me alive in spite of my health problems. I have bad genes. I like some of my cousins have all gotten bad genes which if science was not there we would have die off decades ago. I can pray to a half a dozen God's and not one of them can keep me alive as well as a couple of small pills. Take them each day and I can sing out my lungs not take them an me goes silence.
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James
Given the fact Dr's are government representatives that are trained & taught to follow Gov rules & guidelines by way of the FDA. The FDA states only a drug can prevent or cure. Most Dd's are skittish about natural remedies or cures not approved or cleared by the FDA. IE: Only a drug can prevent or cure" type laws.... The kid has been suffering at the hands of non-functional medicine. But now that the parents want a 2nd opinion or other treatments? They claim the old standby excuse. Excessive suffering, unstable or set up requirements that force the parents into financial hardship... Also, wonder if the Dr's have fed the child's brain quality oils, clean salts & low sugar diet? Watch this video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyeC9IiFKpw .
In regard to the young British lad whose life support was discontinued in spite of pleas by his parents to seek medical care elsewhere, I believe that the English courts treated Alfie's parents cruelly and with disregard for their wishes. Even if the poor child died after care was provided elsewhere, at least his parents would have peace of mind knowing that they did everything possible for their son. What I'm about to say may be contrary to your beliefs but it is possible that between lifetimes, Alfie realized that he had chosen the wrong parents for his next lifetime before he transitioned to Nirvana/Heaven. Why would a loving God cause this to happen? Was this free will? Who's will was making these choices. God's? Why would a loving God allow this to happen? Karma perhaps? Perhaps God is also a punishing God. So many questions and so few answers...
They killed him because he was white. Plain and simple if he had been Pakistani this would not have happened.
I disagree, they discontinued life support because of the cost associated with his care and the fact that they believed nothing could help him. While I believe it should be the parents choice, let’s face facts no good parent wants to let their child go. But sometimes you have to let go. You are hurting yourself and possibly your child more by keeping his body alive while his spirit is already in heaven. God let Jesus go. It has nothing to do with race. People seem to forget that Jesus was middle eastern.
I do agree. God was calling him home. It is a sin to deny Him.
Trying to keep him alive was just torturing him. His race was irrelevant - not all countries are like the US.
I agree after being taken off life support he did not s survive that is god's way of calling him home
Be at peace brothers and sisters This is no time for war or placing more worry or trouble on the child's parents,we as believers should be standing in the gap with this family through this unbelievable trying time with intercessory prayer,Faith,Love,the Ccmpassion,and full Armor of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ Prayer changes things and God's Mercy, Power,and Grace is the same today manifested in each and everyone of our lives as it was for Moses when the Chariots came,Joseph in the Midst of persecution and Slavery,Noah and the flood So too the Family of this child Believe have Faith and take your inquiries up too our Heavenly Father in this time and just know my prayers go out on behalf of you all and im believing with you that God is not a man that he should lie for he say in his word that whosoever calleth on the Name of Jesus and believe in their heart that he died on the cross for our sins and rose shall be saved and im believing for you all right now that your son will pull thru in Jesus Name I pray Amen!!! and Amen!!!.
John. You're a bigot. Plain & simple!!!!
John, I did a bit of research on the issue of life and death in Pakistan. You can be put to death in this country if you blaspheme God. As for ending a child's life who is brain dead, this would probably also be left in the hands of God and parents who made this decision might be considered blasphemers. Different country, different rules and values.
socialized medicine.
Its not up to any religious leader or doctor. Its up to the parents. Period
Agreed.
And yet you trust a doctor to make any other decision concerning your health and well-being because they are qualified to do so after years of experience and learning. I accept that there are and will be occasions where this isn’t always true but there aren’t many exceptions and that’s a fact. I don’t blame the parents as I’m a parent too but even I know when to stop and I’ve felt the same about things like this even before I became a parent. LLAP ??
If the parent will pay ALL cost involved, no help from government or insurance, with keeping him alive then let him stay on life support.
Given the fact that the poor child has been deceased since April 28th I believe it may be a little on the late side to switch the life support back on, on another (Related) note i sincerely hope if you find yourself in a similar situation you have to pay ALL the costs to keep your child alive you unsympathetic goit
It can't be. There's a point at which it is just irrational to keep someone with no brain alive.
In the US politicians do this so they can posture as 'saviors', while cutting deeply into Medicaid and Medicare.
You're right NO one has a say in it but our Lord sayeth let the dead bury the dead and let the living taketh care of the living so as the living and the child still living not yet dead i believe it is our duty too take care of him through prayer and physical means and he's fighting for a reason we as believers should be strength for the ones weakened at this time as also was Our Lord's teachings and yes Will is at play here.
I strongly agree.
I am Minister, Justin Theriault and I believe that any religious leaders or Doctor it's not up to them it's up to the Parents and God.
But that's not what happened The Doctors are planning God and that is not right and God knows it was not right .
Prayers God loves All. Amen.
Omgsh STOP THE HATE TALK!!!!!! You who think God punnishes a little boy are not competent enough to understand what our lord has said, or you just like controversy. Jesus said if you can not live your neighbors you can not love him. You dont have ti agree with what they do, you can even stand up and fight against evil. But for the sake of humanity stop hating others and spewing such nonsense. Pray for them and do something constructive instead of spreading more hate.
Amen!!
I recently saw the movie, "The Shack" , even though it is "Just" a movie, I believe GOD speaks to us through many ways (not jus the Bible), through people, places, songs and movies to get his message through. It changed my entire perception of GOD, Judgment, Blame and Free Will. I believe 100% in free will. I Believe GOD neither causes events or prevents them. I highly recommend everyone see this movie. If Alfie's spirit wanted to leave, he would have died even on life support. I believe his parents should have been allowed to take their child anywhere they wanted. The hospital, doctors or judges have NO Right telling these parents they could noT seek help elsewhere, especially since the Pope was in favor of bringing him to Italy!!!
I totally agree with you. Very well said
What does the Pope have to do with this? Because the Pope was going to pay for his travel, was he also paying all continuing medical costs? What if it was just a concerned citizen making the offer, would that not count? You did not mention he was paying for it, just that it was the Pope. He is just a regular human being like the rest of us.
Amen!!
Well said!
Alfie came here to be an example to us. Through his life and the choices he has made we must face the dilemma of fighting till the last breath or to let go when all seems lost. It is our obligation to breath every breath we have been given. Where there is no suffering, it is also our obligation to allow others every breath. There, then, is what only appears to be the perplexing question of Alfie. For me, it is quite clear, and I will belabor if you would want to humor me.
Take the LIFE SUPPORT away and see what happens. Is it his breath or the machine forcing the air through his lungs? What about eating? He would die of thirst and starvation. People are wanting to keep something alive using extraordinary measures and expect others that this is correct.
It probably cost the UK medical system from $2 to $4 million to care for this child, despite the fact that no cure could ever be possible. Unless we have the technology to do a brain transplant, it was impossible.
Let's compare that to the US 'system':
Toothache Leads to Boy's Death - ABC News
Mar 5, 2007 - Toothache Leads to Boy's Death. That is the sobering message a 12-year-old Maryland boy left when, after his dental problems went untreated, he succumbed to a severe brain infection. Deamonte Driver's life could have been spared if his infected tooth was simply removed -- a procedure costing just $80.
Americans are hypocritical if they complain about the UK system - at least there is one.