Presidents with their mistresses

Over the years, important political figures have displayed a pattern of improper behavior and infidelity.


We expect a lot out of our elected officials – and rightfully so. They have been given the crucially important task of representing the people and serving our collective interests. But as the old saying goes, nobody is perfect. If there’s one thing recent revelations such as the #MeToo movement have demonstrated, it’s that even highly admired public figures can have a dark side.

Life Under a Microscope

For better or for worse, elected officials are constantly in the spotlight. They are hounded with public attention and required to defend their positions daily. Every vote they make is recorded, every speech carefully analyzed. We praise them for great accomplishments and chastise them for misdeeds or inaction. But the cameras don’t turn off when they head home for the day.

By nature of their public lives, their private lives are also under constant scrutiny.

And, as has been proven time and time again, scandal doesn’t hold up well to scrutiny.

Donald Trump and Stormy Daniels

Donald Trump pictured with Stormy Daniels.

History of Indecency

Important political figures have long shown a penchant for improper behavior. During his time in the White House, John F. Kennedy was notorious for late night rendezvous with women who weren’t his wife. Bill Clinton had an infamous affair with a staffer while he was president. Even Martin Luther King Jr. reportedly had several mistresses.

In short – immoral activity and political power are no strangers to one another.

Which perhaps is why we shouldn’t be shocked to read about the alleged past affairs of President Trump which have been dominating headlines in recent weeks.

Trump reportedly had an affair with porn star Stormy Daniels back in 2006 – just a year after marrying his current wife, Melania. Then, in the lead up to the election, Daniels was paid $130,000 to keep quiet about the incident.

Earlier this week, former Playboy model Karen McDougal came forward with a similar story and publicly apologized to the First Lady for engaging in a sexual affair with her husband.

Biblical Moral Compass

Despite studies showing religion becoming less popular, Christians still make up the majority of American voters. Religious voters are particularly concerned with issues of morality, and in order to win votes, politicians must appeal to Christian values and strive to show good moral character.

So how do the allegations against President Trump square with Christian values?

On paper, not very well.

However, it’s yet to be seen whether this will cause an erosion of approval from religious supporters. On the one hand, these reported transgressions are pretty serious. On the other, the Bible teaches forgiveness over holding grudges – and some religious leaders have been more than eager to forgive. One outspoken pastor even took to Twitter to express support for Trump and mock Stormy Daniels:

Unreasonable Expectations?

When to comes to the expectations placed on elected officials, is it possible that we’ve simply set the bar too high? By demanding perfection, do we fail to account for the fact that humans are flawed creatures?

Some people really couldn’t care less about what politicians do in their private lives, so long as they do a satisfactory job while in office. Others insist that good leadership stems not only from legislative victories and rousing speeches, but also from serving as a positive role model by embracing honorable values and treating others with respect.

Unfortunately, history shows that’s not always what we get.

What do you think is more important: getting things done, or having good moral character? Is it unreasonable to expect both?

 

184 comments

  1. Minister James says:

    …I think what is actually at issue here is a marked decline of public consequences for the breaking of the Eleventh Commandment, “me too/times up” notwithstanding. May we all have a better day.

    1. Carl Elfstrom says:

      I’ve known plenty of couples who had open sexual relationships, so his wife might not care about it. She might have even joined them, or may have been in the background with a video camera. I don’t think what goes on behind closed doors is anyone’s business. I don’t even like trump, but am not going to put him down over sometjng I don’t think should k ow or talk about. That sounds like a witch hunt. Like it or not, he is our president. I’d be quick to vote to peach him if there was just cause, but as long as there’s not, I must support him. That seems like the patriotic thing to do.

      1. Neal VanDeRee says:

        Well Stated Carl (although you have some typos in your comments).
        How can we expect the best of the best to be willing to serve when everything that they do in their private lives becomes front page headlines?

        If we want the best leaders, who are mortal beings that have errors, then, in my humble opinion, let’s get down to talking about REAL issues, instead of becoming a nation of gossipers

        Like you, Carl, I did not vote for Trump and dislike many, many things that he is doing. I hope we can get a better leader with a smaller ego, or at least one that does not put his ego first, in the next election, but in the meantime, the Presidency of the United States should be respected and supported out of respect of the position.

        Sadly, with biased news media acting more like gossip mongers instead of news men (and women), I believe it will be a long time, if ever, before the presidency becomes respected again.

        History and looking back on a presidency matters too.

        Abraham Lincoln, when he served as president was hated by half of the Union. Naturally he was not a beloved figure of the Confederecy, but still, respected by many in the south. When Booth killed Lincoln, most of the people in the Confedercy demonized Booth, as well they should, but the point is, he was respected, even if he was not loved.

        Somehow we must get things back on track in this country or we will certainly fall, as surely as the Roman Empire fell, or the British Empire fell, so too can America.

        Perhaps the next world currency to replace the American Dollar will be the Chinese Yuan. We will only have ourselves to blame.

        Wake up America, wasting time with news time on an affair with a porn star is damaging this country. Where are the real news reports, dealing with matters of substance like the continuing leaking of radiation from the Japanese Nuclear plant into the Pacific Ocean, causing radiation to show up in California waters. OR reporting on new advances in medical technology, like NAD+ that seems to reverse aging in mammals. Reporting on things like this shines a light on issues of true importance.

        1. Ben says:

          Nothing is more damaging to this country then Trump and his supporters (including Fox news, and the Republican Congress & Senate). May they all end up in Tartarus,

          1. Dr.Mangan says:

            Nothing is more dangerous than losing Jesus Christ and the true not fake christians that support Zion .ie masonic jew devils of satan,gay pedophile child molester feminist and islamics al that are ANTI CHRIST we must unite as TRUE CHRISTIANS and do as CHRIST stated “DESTROY THE SYNOGOGUE OF SATAN” PERIOD NO EXCEPTION NON! GOD is calling we have to answer! AMEN CHRIST IS KING

          2. James Merrill says:

            Dr.Mangan’s assine comments aside, I think you are right. People like us, those that can think in broader terms are sure to suffer repression. The Dr.Mangan’s of the world are always quick to dismiss any view but their own and are ready to force feed it to us against our will. Trump very much enables these mental cretins.

          3. Allen Tobolewski says:

            Silly Christians like Dr.Mangan. They neither know the creators name in the Bible they claim to believe in, is from the letters YHWH, roughly pronounced Yahuah, that his son’s name means Yahweh salvation, and pronounced Yahushua. The made-up word Jesus is a concoction of English French German Latin and Greek. It is not transliterated as names are supposed to be. Jesus is derived from the name HeZeus, who was a man, the savior of The Druids who was crucified for the sins of the world in about 834 BCE. HeSeus was voted in by the Nicene council as ordered by Constantine.
            . ““DESTROY THE SYNOGOGUE OF SATAN?” The synagogues of satan are all the christian churches. They only might obey YHWY by accident, and only follow pagan unholydays.
            . 1Jn 2:4 The one who says, “I know Him[YHWH],” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
            1Jn 2:5 But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Elohim has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him[YHWH].
            . The christians only follow paganism and preach against following YHWH, but think they are the answer to the world.
            . Most of our presidents were christian, and they were not perfect.
            . Go Trump. HalleluYah Praise YHWH.

        2. Joseph Langer says:

          Trump’s lack of morality goes way beyond an affair with a porn star. His lack of morality colors what he does as President, and dishonors the office more than anything the press has said about him. The issue with Stormy Daniels is not the affair, but the lawyer paying for her silence, which could be considered a campaign contribution exceeding legal limits. I will honor the office of President when there is a President who honors the office he’s in.

          1. Ben says:

            An educated & intelligent response. Thank you.

          2. Royann Killoren says:

            Perfectly stated!

          3. John Owens says:

            Yep. I don’t guess W was good enough either.

        3. Yonah Zechus says:

          Do you dislike the positive impact Donald Trump has had on our economy?
          I voted for a President who was not an insider and not owned by the banksters or the elites.
          Do you dislike him because you yourself are one of those elites,who never has any financial concerns in your life?

          1. Linda C says:

            Yonah Zechus: No I am one of the working poor, with 2 granddaughters who are both african american and LGBTQ, and I worry about them and the kind of government where we have an Islamaphob, Homophob, Misogynistic President and a VP who still believes in conversion therapy running our country. And “the donald” isn’t the one who made a positive impact on the economy it was going in that direction BEFORE he was voted into office. But what we have is a president who still thinks Mexico will pay for a wall that won’t do any good…a president who said Help the Dreamers but still wants them deported and uses fear to try and get what he wants done…and can’t stop fighting via TWITTER, who does he think he is a 16 year old girl?

          2. gsl2727 says:

            What positive impact on our economy. It was doing very well before he came in. He has sent the stock markets of the world tumbling with his irresponsible tweets. We are now in a tariff war with China and soon more countries. The working poor are no better off. Jobs are not coming back in outdated industries. And before you say anything about me being an elitist, I have had and still have plenty of financial concerns.

          3. Tom says:

            Linda C…well stated…a lot of people conveniently forget how Trump filed multiple bankruptcies, and put thousands of people out of work…and invested in Russia, instead of the United States…Peace…Tom

          4. Dav says:

            Do you truly believe what you write or defending yourself for the horrendous mistake you made? He has added to the swamp, lied to the American people, his wife, and his children. Trump has no idea what he is doing, nor do his advisors and that is a huge problem. We need true religion people from all faiths to lead us, not a few that Christians are putting them selves in knots to justify what he says.

            The USA is in a downward spiral because of the ignorance of e masses ans what they believe is Christianity. Wake up and find the true religion or find your hell.

          5. John Owens says:

            Damn, Linda, where do you get all that stupid PHOBE crap? I know all the left SAYS it about Trump, but never show why or how they say it. Y’all need to put up or shut up.

        4. Jim says:

          Very well put.

        5. Pastor Dave says:

          True respect is earned. It doesn’t come with a job title.

        6. C. Bardin says:

          The Porn star affair is a private thing until it becomes public and someone lies about it. If Trump is lying about the porn encounter, it is evidence of his pattern of lying to “we the people”
          who pay him a salary.

          If he will lie day after day to we-the-people, how can we or any other nation believe him? His rhetoric becomes meaningless and rank.

          Who, with a minimum of ethical principles, would let a liar stay in their employ?

          Have the majority of citizens, a majority of our government leaders, and too many religious leaders become refuse in a social scrap pile?

        7. Dag says:

          Clinton was impeached because of lying about an affair, but we should give Trump a pass? Seriously, the man has nothing to offer.

          1. Jim says:

            Yea that really hurt him. He should have been kicked out of office and his license to practice law permanently suspended. The clintons came into the white house with almost nothing and left worth about 300 million. Tax payers are still paying a little over a million a year for his office in NY along with Bush’s, Obama and Carter. Why is it that the tax payers have to pay for offices for these folks. They are retired and being paid 400k a year. Plus making millions on speaking engagements. Why do they need an office?

      2. mike says:

        We voted for him for our future and the countrys future, we all have a past and fortunately we are not in the pubic eye. So his past is his and not something that effects me, or I need to think about.

        1. Quasihedron says:

          In the USA, we do not abide thieves, murderers and people who lie under oath in a court of law. Those are the extent of the Big 10 Commandments that made it into secular law.

          1. Yonah Zechus says:

            Noah did not run for President,nor did Jesus or God,or Paul.
            All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
            Name one person who can measure up to your Otherworldly standards that has been President in history or ever existed in History!

          2. Neal says:

            Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, Woodrow Wilson, probably George Washington and John Adams….but I do not wish to be long winded

        2. Ben says:

          Doesn’t affect you Mike? His business model is: make promises he won’t keep, stiff your employees, fire them and file bankruptcy. It’s how he’s running the country. Just think of how awful his behavior is, these are behaviors that we don’t want our children to do ,,, but hey if the President can do it ….

          1. Linda says:

            Yes, it is beyond me how people can view Trump as a good businessman. He IS a good salesman (con man) but a lousy, dishonest and failing businessman who is bringing his “Fake Christian” ethics to our country. SAD

      3. RVW says:

        Hi Carl, Your point is well stated and understood. While I do respect the office of the US presidency, I don’t find that means I must respect and support the office holder, unless he deserves it. Our current president, as the leader of our country, brings us shame, ridicule and disrespect.

    2. Donna Hare says:

      This is political BS for those that are judging others when not based in fact. This is not even a topic to be discussed in church or anywhere. We cannot not judge others.

      1. Ben says:

        Not based on fact???
        Turn off FOX news already.

    3. pablo Fumero says:

      When christianity has been politicized, the devil runs it.

    4. Joannie says:

      My thoughts are only that while we all are sinners in the eyes of God, His message is loud and clear. That being said and understood, WHO ARE WE to pass judgement? As one who walks this earth, we are sinners. None perfect. We can pray with people to try to enrich their lives. We can pray and give comfort to those in pain. We can only pray that those that have sinned against God have asked HIS forgiveness. Again, judgement is not ours or to publicly denounce those that have been put in the spotlight proclaiming they sinned. The “media” does not sit in judgement, either. We do not condone bad behavior, but, our responsibility is to do whatever we can to spread the word of God, comfort those we can, help when we can and let God handle the rest. If we do anything more, WE are declaring ourselves as judges. If we do anything less, we are not doing our job as Christians.

  2. James says:

    Name me the person who is sinless! I’ll be waiting….. Where we do bad, others do good. Where we do good others do bad. No crime, who cares. Not like he is directly responsible for the deaths of over 20 person or is a known and proven traitor. Just saying.

    1. JOHN MAHER says:

      JAMES is ADULTERY a CRIME, WHAT if YOUR FATHER did SAME to YOUR MOM ??? LET the A H start a WAR and then ask HOW MANY DEATHs is HE RESPONSIBLE FOR !!!

  3. Minister Barry says:

    I feel that in the position of President,it is more important to secure the country and get things done.What happens in his personal life is between him and his wife.As long as his flings were mutually
    Agreed upon,and he didn’t destroy anyone’s life (Clinton) so be .We can’t
    Police morals.

    1. JOHN MAHER says:

      Min. BARRY WHAT any PRESIDENT DOES is a 100% REFLECTION on the COUNTRY HE is REPRESENTING, as is the SAME for ALL POLITICIANS, GET REAL, DO NOT COMMENT on the PUDDING UNTIL YOU’VE TASTED SAME !!!

      1. Jim says:

        Do you really believe that John. What Obama did was disgraceful apologizing for our country. Drawing the lines and not responding when they were crossed. YOU CAN KEEP YOUR DOCTOR ETC. I could go on and on. No president has ever done what they said they would do except for Reagan and even he gave an amnesty package to illegals. At this point in our history with the way that congress works and the Rep and Dems the way they are we have become a laughing stock of a country around the world. Its time we got back some respect.

        1. Gabe says:

          you think they were laughing before and not much more so now? You’re not paying any attention whatsoever

        2. Quasihedron says:

          You could keep your doctor. You just don’t always have a choice of insurance though.

        3. gsl2727 says:

          So you think our country has never done anything wrong worth apologizing for? You must have been asleep for the last century. How are we gaining respect in the world by cozing up to dictators. Abandoning our alliances that have served us well for the last 70 years. Starting a tariff war that we will lose. I guess you don’t apologize to each other in your family as it is disgraceful?

          1. Jim says:

            We have done more to help the world than any other country and no I don’t think we need to apologize for anything. Have we made mistakes, Dam right but we have made up for them. You speak of abandoning our alliances which ones have we abandoned. Have we abandoned deals that were made over the years that have us paying for the bulk of everything like the UN. Nato. Etc. Cozing up to dictators is something that has been done since the country started if it is something that we need from that area. Its called diplomacy. I know your referring to congratulating Puton on his election win. The same thing that Obama did in his time. What specifically do you think we should apologize for? What has the US done that was so bad? But before you go grapping at straws remember we are the only country that has defeated other countries in battle and gave the country back to the people. Tell me another country that has done that. I’m proud to be an American and dam proud of my country if you think this country is so bad there are plenty of flights to other countries knock yourself out. Oh wait a minute they have laws against just coming into their country and staying I guess that means you have to stay here.

      2. Carl Elfstrom says:

        John, are you suggesting that Minister Barry swallows? That sounds really gross. Besides that, like the song goes ” You can’t have your pudding before you eat your meat.” How can he have any pudding before he eats his meat?

        1. Quasihedron says:

          Carl needs some personal experience, to understand, obviously!

      3. Yonah Zechus says:

        Where was your moral vision of perfection when the last President was in Office.
        This man was in the public eye for years and the politicians came crawling to his door asking for money.
        He was never slandered or attacked until he dared to threaten somebodies gravy train and hustle.
        I hope he takes the shoes off your feet and the roof over your head.

  4. Lea Weis says:

    Well you can’t police morality..And everyone’s idea of morality is different.

    The religious world is filled with hippocrates. So I’m not really surprised. We all have our downfalls that some call sin. A moral character is important to me. Trust is important and we have trust in the character in that person to lead us. Along with the fact we have the right to our personal lives.

    So…us humans are flawed and there has been to many witch hunts that have destroyed many lives.
    His afaires are between him and his wife. For the rest of us…Well it was 2 consenting adults…He did not destroy these women’s life’s and it was not of violence like rape. This is not effecting what he is doing in the White House. Not like the Clintons that have left a trail of destruction behind them.

    1. Carl Elfstrom says:

      What if they got out the whips and chains? That would have made it violent, but some like it rough. Have you heard of S & M ? The only definition of morals I’ve ever read in a dictionary stated ” An individual’s set of prininciples.” Not a nation’s, or a religion’s, but an individual’s. If we’ re not using dictionary’s definitions to define our words we aren’t speaking English. And if we don’t all speak the same language we won’t get through to each other.

      1. Carl Elfstrom says:

        I think a lot of people confuse morals with ethics. Being ethical is doing the right thing because it’s the right thing to do. Oh yeah, I’ve taken business management too. [ Plan, organize, implement, and control, in that order always and only.]
        .

  5. Jim says:

    I agree Lea, The problem I had with Bill Clinton was he lied under oath about the affair with Monica. The fact that he had an affair with a girl half his age to me is their business. Kennedy who many consider to be a great president was one of the worst. When Jackie was having a miscarriage he was out on a friends Yacht having an affair with a woman and did not come home when he heard the news that Jackie was in the hospital. Again that was between him and Jackie. Trump had these affairs prior to taking office and as long as he does not lie under oath about this or other things if he goes under oath then it is his business. Oh Yea John Maher my father did same to my mom. In most states while there may be a law on the books for Adultery (other than the Military) when is the last time you heard of someone being prosecuted for Adultery. And what has war got to do with this issue? You obviously do not like the current president but how did you feel about Kennedy and CLinton.

    1. Carl Elfstrom says:

      When was the last time someone didn’t lie under oath ? Surely you’re not talking about attorneys or their protégé. They’re as bad as used car salesmen and insurance agents. It’s not like we’re talking about a car full of nuns. And only one president admitted to chopping down a cherry tree, probably so he could get away with the rest of his bullshit. And don’t y’all dare try to tell me that Billy Graham told the truth. Y’all don’t want me to go there again. The main point of the matter is “Don’t get caught”. However, I voted for Bill Clinton both times, and would vote for him again, even if he ditched the bitch and would shack up with Monica in the Whitehouse. Or should I say especially, even though my political beliefs are republican. By the same token, I didn’t vote for the rebuplican candidate, and look how many times he’s told the truth. Do we really want or care about having an emphatically truthful president. Twitter would say otherwise, and Twitter never lies!

      1. JOHN MAHER says:

        FOR ALL YOU VILLAGE IDIOTs DOTAR ORANGUtRUMP ONLY LIES the MONKEY can NOT SPEAK ANYTHING BUTT LIES and PUTO PUTIN grinds the ORGAN, LISTEN to the TUNE VILLAGE IDIOTs

  6. Martha Knight says:

    It may be healthy for us to let go of anger and resentment, and not to seek revenge. Butwe should be clear about what the Bible tells us about forgiveness, and the circumstances under which we can claim God’s forgiveness. We are expected to own our sin. We are expected to apologize or express regret over our sin. We are expected to ASK for forgiveness. New Testament/New Covenant believers would claim forgiveness because of God’s grace shown to people, through the sacrifice provided by Christ. But it is applied to the guilt of those who have owned their sins, been contrite, turned away from (repented of) their sins and purposed to do better.

    1. JOHN MAHER says:

      GOOD KNIGHT, Ms.GOODKNIGHT !!!

      1. Carl Elfstrom says:

        Personally, I’d rather hear Goodnight Irene.

  7. Ben says:

    Other the WWII – in the past 100 years, more atrocities have been committed by so called Christians, then by anyone else.
    Why doesn’t the church excommunicate or at least publicly condemn the Republican Party for their actions?

    1. John Owens says:

      What’s your source for that stupid crap?

  8. Jim says:

    What actions would that be Ben. I think its the democratic party that should be excommunicated as they are the party that believes that killing babies is OK.

    1. Ben says:

      Jim I’m pro-choice. Pro-birthers are unchristian, because they just want the baby born, but want to cut welfare and other assistance, even though Christ said to take care of the poor.
      All these school shooters? Republican whites.
      White Supremacist-hate crime commiters? White Christian Republicans.
      Cops who shoot blacks needlessly? White Christians.
      #45? White-republican-antichrist.

      1. Jim says:

        Sounds to me like you are a racist Ben. I’m pro life because I think that people have a choice. You choose based on your actions. I don’t think it is unreasonable to assume that everyone knows how babies are made. If you don’t want to do the time don’t do the crime. How about the guys who have to pay child support. Do they get a choice in the matter? How about this, no man should have to pay child support if he does not want the child. After all he does not have a choice does he? it takes two to tangle baby. As for cutting welfare yes it was not supposed to be a lifelong thing. And in the beginning the church helped with the poor not the government. But how long are we going to keep making excuses for people. In this country in this day and age you can be or do anything. It takes hard work but it can be done. I believe in helping people but like the old saying goes, give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him to fish and he eats for life. But the man still needs to want to fish.

        1. Ben says:

          Racist? Me? Reread what I wrote. I’m pointing out how horribly behaved Christian, white Republicans are. I don’t judge by race. I judge by actions.
          Jesus didn’t set a timelimit on helping the poor.
          If a guy helps make a baby, then he has to help support it. Especially with pro-birthers making abortions illegal. These same pro-birthers should also responsible for babies that they wouldn’t allow to be aborted.

          1. Jim says:

            Christian “White Republicans” I know a lot of republicans and they are Black, Hispanic, Asian Etc. When you single out one race you are racist. Sorry but it is what it is. As for the baby issue. He helped make the baby but has no choice in if the mother wants to keep it or not. The mother had a choice this to me is a double standard. I’m a firm believer that if a man fathers a baby he should support it even it he is not married to the mother. However I know that if I happened to sleep with a woman who got pregnant I would want a say so in having the baby. You see at this point we both made the decision to sleep together knowing what might happen, especially if we did not use protection. At this point accept the choice made and take responsibility for our actions. The problem with most of the world today is no one is held accountable. But I truly believe that if a woman has a right to choose so should the male. And abortion is still legal in this country so the argument is not valid about pro birthers.

        2. T'Keren Valmaz says:

          Sorry Jim but ylou are indeed espousing a woman hating view thinking a man should have a right to dictate what a woman does. Giving birth is risky as hell especially for women in rural areas many of which have been losing out on maternity wards and prenatal care as those are the first things to get shut down when budgeting becomes an issue.

          Its also pretty well understood taht many especially christian areas have little or no form of sex education and that many stores in those areas wont carry things like condoms and morning after pills for fear of being boycotted by the community.

          You clearly turn a blind eye on the war on women which is very real.

          You also are espousing the myth of work hard enough and you can prosper. This is a myth that the wealthy elite encourage to fool the working class. But as with the current new tax plan that favors the wealthy and only adds to the burden of the middle and lower income people, the system is blatantly rigged and many will work 80 hour weeks and never even make enough to own a home or pay off outrageous student loan debts.

          You are clearly no christian, as you lack a true understanding of what christian charity is suppose to be.

          So may the Void consume your soul and keep it forever safe in the darkness of Oblivion so that you may not hinder those that seek enlightenment in future lives.

          1. Ben says:

            Right on T’Keren.

          2. Jim says:

            T’Keren you don’t know me so I will overlook your ignorance. Funny but I came from a very poor family and I made it ok. I worked hard and got an education while serving our country. Was able to find my way. I don’t know what country you are talking about but I was talking about America. There are free clinics everywhere so getting condoms etc should not be an issue and they can get them and the morning after pill underage without parents consent so your argument there is BS. Yes giving birth is risky and if the life of the mother is in jeopardy then that’s another issue and not a regular abortion. and again I don’t know what country you are talking about but in America a person cannot be turned away from a hospital period if they are in need of medical help. Again your argument is BS. The poor old me the rich have everything and I don’t get nothing is BS as well. Look at the rich. A good portion of them got there by doing something. IE the deceased owner of Wendys. Bill Gates just to name a few. They made it on their own. Maybe I’m not a Christian in the sense that you think. I don’t pass judgement on folks and I do believe that God watches over me and has saved me numerous times from certain death. So maybe I’m not a Christian because I believe that people should accept responsibility for their actions and if you don’t like your current situation be it financially or other then do something about it. Much like the serenity prayer is how I think people should be so your right maybe I;m not your kind of Christian.

          3. JOHN MAHER says:

            HEY JIMBO the BIMBO DO LIVE IN HARLEM, NY ??? BLACK REPs, YOU MEAN UNCA TOMs

          4. Yonah Zechus says:

            My accountant refutes everything you have said about the new tax plan.
            You must be either on welfare or just cockeyed.
            I came out of prison in 2003 with nothing. I had only a high school education.
            Four years later I bought a home on a paycheck of 400 a week.
            Not buying tobacco and alcohol or even a cable bill really makes a difference in ones budget. If you don’t know how to save money, it doesn’t matter how much you make.
            Your still going to be screwed.

          5. John Owens says:

            Good job calling out the BS, Jim.

      2. Yonah Zechus says:

        If we want to see a drastic reduction in the shooting of innocent men and women by cops, the answer is simple.
        We nee more female cops in service. For some reason, authority+badge+gun attracts a type of male who is governed by his parental ego and this position makes his ass go to his shoulders.

        1. John Owens says:

          I do agree that women make better police officers, on average, because of the ego thing.

      3. John Owens says:

        School shooters are not republicans. You just make stuff up.

      4. John Owens says:

        And black policemen, Hispanic policemen, Asian policemen shoot people too. Your bigotry is incredibly obvious.

    2. JOHN MAHER says:

      HEREs JIMBO the BIMBO, RIGHT LET them LIVE in the STREETs of POVERTY, WORK for NOTHING, SLAVE FOR the RNC/GOP DOTAR ORANGUtRUMP, EVEN BETTER GO to JAIL even CHEAPER LABOR, NO ? VILLAGE IDIOTS

  9. Martha Knight says:

    Do you have trouble distinguishing between fertile eggs and baby chicks? Do you know what the Bible says about abortion?

    1. Carl Elfstrom says:

      What about ovum omelettes?

      1. Martha Knight says:

        Ovum is just Latin for egg. All the omelettes I have made or eaten have been that kind. Well I suppose there can be omelettes made of artificial eggs.

  10. bob says:

    There’s much Biblical evidence that God honors godly morals and that He will bless the endeavors of such persons.

    1. Carl Elfstrom says:

      It’s more likely that God doesn’t care about our morals, but only wants us to have a good time without causing any harm.

  11. Jim says:

    Not sure if your comment Martha was for me or not. But to answer the questions yes I know the difference between a fertile Egg and a baby chick. And I do not see the similarity in that and an unborn baby. The fetus was fertilized, it is no longer an egg. an egg does not grow until it is fertilized. once it is then it starts to grow the beginning of life. While I admit it has been some time since I read anything in the Bible about abortion I’m pretty sure that god was against it.

    1. Ben says:

      Jim old Testament God was for stoning disrespectful children, selling daughters into slavery and other such atrocities. But Christ came and brought a new Testament – which replaced the old Testament. Christ has nothing to say about abortion. He was all about love your neighbor as yourself.

      1. John Owens says:

        Ben, came you come up with a book, chapter and verse in scripture that says a person should sell their daughters into slavery, or even suggests that? Oh, and BTW, the word translated Testament does not mean testament, and the new COVENANT does not do away with any of the commandments outside of sacrificial ones. Jeremiah 31:31–

        1. BethCZ says:

          Exodus 21:7-11 gives rules about selling your daughter into slavery, and says that she must not be freed at the end of 7 years, as is the case if you sell a son into slavery.

          If God did not mean for people to be owned as chattel property, he could have included, “Thou Shall Not Own People as Property” in the commandments. If Jesus wanted to change that, he could have said, “Do not buy or sell people as property.” Instead, we have instructions that those in slavery must stay in slavery, must obey, or can be whipped or killed.

          1. John Owens says:

            Beth, Exodus 21:7-11 says nothing about selling a daughter into slavery. It speaks about betrothal.

          2. Beth CZ. says:

            Ummmm. Okay, if you want to call it “betrothal”. She was forced to have sex with the guy who bought her. Unlike male slaves, she was not to be freed after 7 years. She was not allowed to leave. He owned her.

    2. Carl Elfstrom says:

      Some people really seem to think they know what God thinks.

    3. Martha Knight says:

      A fertile egg is a potential chick, but not a chick, as we all know. A fetus developing in a woman’s uterus is a potential baby human, but not a baby human, and has not begun its life as a baby human. Incubating the egg (in an incubator, or under a setting hen) allows the potential chick to develop and become an actual chick which can then free itself of the shell. In mammals including humans, the fertilized egg becomes a fetus, and if nothing interrupts its development and birth takes place, the former fertilized egg/fetus becomes a baby human. We do not find abortion defined as sin in the Bible.

  12. JOHN MAHER says:

    THE MIND is a TERRIBLE THING !!!

    1. John Owens says:

      In your case, I would have to agree.

  13. DaveJ says:

    Wow. Both the article and most of the comments seem to be excusing Trump’s behavior. This doesn’t seem to be fitting in with what I have come to expect from ULCM.

    1. Ben says:

      Dave nothing about Trump or his supporters is excusable. Wish we could take the lot of them to the Arctic, build a wall around them and then forget about them.

      1. Jim says:

        Ben you want to build a wall I know where we can start the southern border of the united states.

        1. Ben says:

          The border wall is one of the most moronic plans that Trump has thought up.
          Every study on the wall proves that, plain enough, for even a Trump supporter to understand.

          1. Jim says:

            If you have a better way to secure the border I’m all ears.

          2. Beth K says:

            I have a suggestion which will keep people from Mexico from crossing into the US.

            Destroy the economy. Stop enforcing laws pertaining to violence – including automatic-firearms and bombs. Do not give out benefits or transfer payments to anyone. Have everyone in a public place subject to searches – bodily searches and to demand ID and “papers” (4th amendment to be ignored). Don’t worry about extra-governmental groups who go out to try to make us “safe”, or anything that they do.

            Basically, make the US an unsafe place for anyone to visit, especially those with dark skin.

            We’re on the road to a lot of that. We’ll get more of it both with the tax plan which has got corporations to cut jobs, and now with starting trade wars that will likely effect the breadbasket states.

            They don’t even arm teachers in schools that exist within war zones! But, people in the US are talking about it.

            The wall might go up, and Mexico will pay for it if only to keep people from pouring into Mexico from the US.

          3. Jim says:

            What study is that Ben? Its funny to consider that the border patrol is wanting the wall. The Vice President of the border guards union was stating that they have been wanting a wall built on the southern border ever since 9/11. This from the folks who have to work the border they feels its a good thing not just because of illegals but also drugs. Beth I would like to know what jobs have been lost due to the tax cuts. 250k jobs were added to the job roles in the past month. Unemployment is down to its lowest levels in history for Hispanic and African Americans so what job loss are we looking at? What Trade wars are you referring to as there is no trade tariffs put on anything at this time. Again listening to CNN and not actually looking at facts. China has not started with tariffs nor has the united states at this time. It is being talked about. Please at least check your facts. Actually some areas of the world do have armed teachers in the schools.

          4. bethkz says:

            What jobs have been lost? Carrier has greatly downsized, even after having their tax breaks given by Governor Pence before the election.

            Corporations are not hiring nor are they doing plant upgrades nor giving raises to employees at any level. The unemployment rate remains unchanged at 4.1% even after 313K jobs added in Feb. Wages have not increased, as they are apt to do if there were a labor shortage. The fact is that there are a huge number of “discouraged workers” who are no longer considered employed nor unemployed, and are working as they can on the casual job market for cash or barter. The reserve of these potential employees has not been exhausted yet. Corporations are using this windfall of cash for stock buybacks, which will both reduce the amount demanded for stock dividends and increase the money available to pay their board, President, and CEO.

            Companies never hire more people nor refurbish their plants nor start new manufacturing lines without increased demand for their products. More demand requires more money in consumers’ pockets, or favorable conditions overseas to export their products. This is why Trickle Down Economics, previously called Horse and Sparrow Economics, has not worked since it was first proposed in 1890.

            I live in a high plains agricultural state in a rural area of it. Although the US tariffs have not taken effect, the threat of them has caused other nations to enact retaliatory tariffs toward things made in the red states.That includes agricultural products such as soy beans and pork to China. That includes massive tariffs on ethanol made primarily from corn. Farmers and ranchers do not anticipate making money on many of their crops. They are considering whether to grow them or not, or to consider alternative crops. The problem with that is there may be futures contracts on some of the already-planned crops or seed companies have planned to have stocks sufficient for what they anticipated planting. There will not be sufficient seed, and what there is will be at a higher price, for these alternative crops. Fields will be left fallow, they will not hire or they will lay off their workers. They will not invest in new farm equipment which they will not be using for at least a year.

            This is also affecting Kentucky & Tennessee bourbon in the EU. With the price of bourbon being higher, they’ll easily switch to other products. That includes Harley Davidson motorcycles in the EU and China.

            In short, the tariffs imposed by foreign nations are designed by them to target the states that voted for the GOP in 2016. That is a tried-and-true way to influence another nation’s policies: It has been used by many nations throughout history, including the US. Elections have consequences.

            My rural area does not have television, except through some very high-priced cable, which only includes CNN for a premium above that. I, and many people, do not have televisions. I get my news from several sources, many of them print sources. I still get my “morning paper”.

          5. innomin says:

            And, yet, bethkz, you have internet access which allows you to troll places like this.

            Methinks she doth protest too much. LOL!

          6. John Owens says:

            Good observation, Innomin.

    2. Carl Elfstrom says:

      Trust me Dave, there are à lot of other things we don’t like about Donald Trump, but fooling around with a beautiful babe? I didn’t vote for him and won’t vote for him, but my hat’s off to him for scoring with the ladies.

  14. T'Keren Valmaz says:

    The President is suppose to be a representative of the people of this nation. However most of us have already grown numb to the revolting behavior of Cadet Bone Spurs Drumpf.

    We all already knew he had zero ethics and thus are just apathetic and know that his sycophants are going to use what aboutism to excuse anything vile he does.

    I mean even having a trophy wife like Mel he couldnt be expected to act honorably to her or stand by the vows of marriage he made. I pity that kid of theirs that likely is being spoon fed how great a man his father is and how he should want to become just like him.

    I imagine Bone Spurs is already having his lawyers draw up divorce papers and having his master Putin arrange a new russian wife that will likely be a spy master.

    Run while you can Mel before you end up being used as a human shield by hubby.

    1. Carl Elfstrom says:

      They might have only jumped a broom. Is that considered a legal form of marriage? And how can we be sure that Mel is really a womanising? Don-na might be more of a closet queen than ” She” has lead us to believe. Stranger things have happened. Just ask Rod Sterling, or Fox Mulder.

    2. John Owens says:

      The force of ignorance is strong with this one.

  15. Kirk says:

    Everybody sins, or at least breaks a law now and then, even Presidents and even T’Keren Valmaz and his buddy John Maher. Those two must have forgotten their own flaws during their rants against Trump. Isn’t jealousy a sin too? Lol! Anyway, I’d prefer politicians do what they say they are going to do during the campaign!

    1. Jim says:

      I think Kirk the problem is Trump is not a politician. These folks are so use to a politician saying whatever they need to too get elected or to please the people that elect them that even when they are lied to they feel good about it. “you can keep your doctor” and Nancy P “we have to pass the bill before we can find out whats in it.” That was about the dumbest thing I have ever heard a politician say. Trump is not a politician and While I’m not fond of his Manor he seems to be getting things done that has needed to be done. Not crazy about the recent budget and I think that will come back to haunt him and the republicans later. Key there was if the liberals like it it’s not good for the country.

      1. Ben says:

        Jim, Trump isn’t getting anything done.
        At this point, I believe you’re a troll, just trying to start trouble.

        1. Jim says:

          Well I assure you I’m not a troll and have no desire to cause trouble. I just state my opinion and you know what folks say about that. I just think that the fact is he was voted our president. Like it or not. He at least should be given a chance to see what he can do. I said the same thing when Carter was elected whom I voted for, Reagan whom I did not first time around, Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama. We elected These folks so I think each should be given the chance to do their thing. Time will tell what kind of president they will make. As for what he has done well at least they have passed a budget first time in 9 years (yes that all the time Obama was in Office). Passed tax cuts I for one don’t call that nothing. Renegotiated trade deals and just kicked Russia out of Washington state.

          1. Ben says:

            You’re postings are that of a troll.
            As for Trump was a rotten person before he was elected and has proven himself to being an even greater evil, in his year in office.

          2. Jim says:

            Well Ben if you want to resort to name calling etc that’s OK. I on the other hand do not lower myself to that level. I prefer to state an opinion and let others do the same without fear of being called things. Give it your best shot.

    2. Pence says:

      Kirk,
      Trump hasn’t done what he said he was going to do! If the 17 women who came out on Trump aren’t enough for you to see this pig for what he is, there is no hope for you to ever see what he is. FYI, how about the video? Still not enough? Case closed on all of you so-called Trump supporting religious apologist.

      1. Ben says:

        Right in Pence.

        1. Ben says:

          Sorry on not in.

          1. John Owens says:

            Freudian gay slip.

      2. Jim says:

        How do you feel about Bill Clinton and John F. Kennedy. Are they “pigs as well” Just asking or do we have a double standard.

        1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

          Well in the case of JFK he was well before my time, was a mutton shunting mic and womanizer but it was also in a different era when that behavior was seen as part and parcel with being masculine. He did at least try to do some positive things as President and was capable of speaking like a sane human being.

          He attempted to break the power of the banks and was likely killed because of it.

          Clinton was a good ol boy redneck type, Frankly his voice alone made me shake my head at the idea of him being presidential material, but then again we all felt Hillary was doing the heavy lifting in the thinking department for that family and presidency.

          On a side note based on interviews and writings about herself Monica always planned to do what she did. She was a seducer not a victim, and in fact meats the definition of a traitor guilty of treason as she planned to sabotage the administration.

      3. Yonah Zechus says:

        17 Trump
        37 Clinton. and what has he not done?
        That is is not trying to do that you hate.
        Send me all your chump change you don’t need.
        I will donate it to Trumps 2020 election.

        1. Ben says:

          Yonah in detail, explain EXACTLY what Trump has done to make America great again.
          (Hint: it isn’t).

          1. Jim says:

            America was great back in the day and remains great today. It is the best country in the world and if you disagree hey that’s your right. Move somewhere else Ben.

    3. T'Keren Valmaz says:

      Scotty! We need Kirk Beamed up he again is confused and assumes everyone is christian.

      I am not nor do I subscribe to the idea of sin original or otherwise as defined by christians.

      I am not an elected official representing an entire nation on the world stage. If I was Id like to think Id have enough common sense to leash my tongue and act in a way people could look upon and say to their kids that is what a leader should be like.

      Ofcourse you just as always attack. You dont want to discuss nor acknowledge any of the very accurate statements made about a topic you disagree with.

      Bones please sedate Kirk and Spock please use a mind meld to figure out what kind of brainwashing Kirk has undergone.

    4. Ben says:

      I’m a witch and not a Christian and I don’t believe in sin. So, I don’t commit sins.

      1. John Owens says:

        And yet you post uninformed stuff like this:

        “Ben

        March 24, 2018 at 8:47 pm

        Jim old Testament God was for stoning disrespectful children, selling daughters into slavery and other such atrocities. But Christ came and brought a new Testament – which replaced the old Testament. Christ has nothing to say about abortion. He was all about love your neighbor as yourself. ”

        So, like T’Keren, you don’t want to be a Christian, but you want to tell others how to be a Christian.

        1. BethCZ says:

          Ummmm…. some of us cannot worship or respect a divine being who says to stone children to death. You don’t have to be a Christian to read or understand the Bible.

          If you don’t go along with commands such as stoning your disobedient children to death, you really cannot say that you agree with the Bible. So, by what method do you decide what is worth keeping or believing, and what is not?

          If a doctor or firefighter is working on the Sabbath, and saves someone’s life, following the Bible, you must stone the doctor or firefighter to death. Do you agree or disagree?

          1. John Owens says:

            Well, Beth, you are partially correct. Most Christians do not understand their own bibles because they are steeped in whatever their church’s dogma is. Stoning, however, is not part of Christian dogma, and very few Christians believe in or observe the Sabbath.

            Jesus (who is God personified) said it is lawful to heal on the Sabbath, so a doctor would be exempt. That principal would apply to milking one’s cows (because the cows would suffer pain from full udders otherwise) and to putting out fires, being a watchman (military or police), and other occupations that are necessary to occur seven days a week. I don’t know how Moses and the captains (which is where the system of judges came about) handled those occupations in the wilderness for 40 years, but they most assuredly had caveats regarding some occupations.

            The common misconception among Christians are apparently lost on you, which may be a good thing. They believe (erroneously) that unless Paul commanded something in one of his epistles, that it doesn’t apply to them, because they are ignorant concerning the New Covenant. That exempts them from Sabbath observance, dietary restrictions, and stonings.

    5. Carl Elfstrom says:

      Face it Kirk. What much of what Christians call sin is a lot of fun, and we should do it more often. God would only get a great laugh out of watching us.

      1. Carl Elfstrom says:

        Sin to Christians must not be an English word, for the dictionary defines it as”Missing the màrk.” It probably came to them while talking in tongues, in the language of jibberish.

        1. Carl Elfstrom says:

          Still, even though they don’t know it, what goes around comes around, hree fold. Blessed Be!!!

          1. Ben says:

            Agreed

      2. Ben says:

        Ain’t nobody gonna love ya like the devil do.

  16. Jim says:

    T’Keren I take it your a trek Fan. I agree with your comment about Elected officials. That said we live in a world where there are not many people to look up to anymore. Christian or not I do think that there is a moral code that people should live by regardless of faith. Trump is not a moral beacon by any stretch of the imagination, then again nor has any other president in the past 20 years. Again we elected him if you voted for him or not or did not vote in any regard the people have spoken. He is our president. And I know he did not win the popular vote but that was California. Take that state out and he would have won the popular vote as well so the system worked as planned. It will be very interesting to see how the next 2 years plays out.

    1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

      Sure there are jim. Just like the mythical figure of fiction Jesus that you look up to we have other iconic heroes of modern fiction like super heroes that are great role models for kids to look up to. Then again I suspect you hate shows like the Arrow or Legends of Tomorrow that have openly gay characters on them.

      Sadly enough I once witness a so called christian living next door to me pin his son to the ground and begin slapping him because the child was doing the classic running around with arms held out saying Im flying I am super man. The dad kept saying are you super man and slapping him until the boy crying said no.

      I caught it on my phone cam and called the law on his arse and was rewarded with seeing him dragged out in cuffs by the deputies.

      In my experience so called christians seem so insecure about their faith and feel such a need to shove it down the throats of their kids that they feel violence against a helpless child is acceptable because how they raise their kid is their business as they like to often say.

      And considering california should just become its own country, same with alaska and texas Im pretty sure nevada would happily leave the republic and be part of cali since they supply it with alot of money in exchange for water and power.

      I very strongly feel the U.S. is too big and needs to separate some.

      1. Jim says:

        Hey I would have no problem with California succeeding from the union. Just out of curiosity do you have a faith? I have kids who are now adults and in their raising they were exposed to many different religions. I encouraged them to go with friends to their churches, temples etc. They have their beliefs and I respect that. I believe what I believe but I don’t think it is my place to say one religion is right over another that is for god to sort out not me.

        1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

          I consider myself a Meta Physicist. When I chose to become ordained through the ULC nearly 10 years ago now I took it quite seriously and am an ardent defend in the non denominational aspect of it. I am very fine with any form of faith people have as long as they recognize it is not the only valid form of faith. The moment they act as if they are the only one that is right and all others are wrong I treat them as the mindless zealots they are.

          I study aspects of many ancient spiritual practices, am a big supporter of Karmic Field theory which makes all forms of killing equally wrong hence why I say it is better to accept death then take a life in self defense.

          I have a strong appreciation for aspects of some of the older parts of the new testament like the actions the 7 sins warn against. Words attributed to Jesus such as turn the other cheek and judge not lest ye be judged are simple and worth admiring even if one does not subscribe to the mishmash of revisions that the bible has gone through at the hands of countless kings and popes for centuries.

          And on the subject of beings called Gods. I do think they all exist, but see them as manipulators of humanity and suspect they are what one might label psychic vampires feeding on the faith of those that pray to them. Hence I council all to have faith first and foremost in themselves and each other, and in nature and the very energy that makes up what we call existence.

          Think on this light or in other words energy is both a particle and a wave. but it seems to only become a particle when observed. So which came first reality or sentience?

          1. Jim says:

            I can respect that. However when you talk about nuking a state (in another blog) it kinda goes against what you are saying here. in the “better to accept death than to take a life. Just for conversation purposes have you ever been shot at or been attacked where your life was in danger, just askin.

          2. T'Keren Valmaz says:

            Ive been in several violent encounters in my life, been shot at, and even put on my knees with a gun to the back of my head. The main type of people I offer spiritual counsel to are active gang members and often try to act as a peace broker between them to try to keep their conflicts from boiling over into the community.

            You refer ofcourse to my post in the article about Mississippi well you need to understand that I do see death as a mercy for people suffering. I feel that most people in such regions are suffering and there is no cure for it in this life. I would burn my own soul to ash to end their misery and if letting them move on to oblivion could be accomplished in a sudden flash for power Id make that sacrifice.

            Not to mention inbred creatures are not human they are abominations in the truest sense. I firmly feel such beings are without what we might call the soul of the heavenly spirit. As they are not meant to exist and only harm the genetic potential of the species and condemn their offspring to high risk of horrific mutations.

            It may sound harsh but to see our species thrive and pursue its full potential one must destroy those that chose to dehumanize themselves by creating offspring that should never be.

            And a state that would not allow abortion in the cases of rape and incest is a state that is like a cancerous mass needing radiation treatment.

          3. John Owens says:

            T’Keren Valmaz, your comments regarding inbreeds are very intelligent. I concur.

        2. JOHN MAHER says:

          HEY JIMBO the BIMBO BET YER KIDs LIVE in YER BASEMENT or GAYRAGE………………..

          1. Jim says:

            Both my kids own their own home and make a hell of a lot more money than I or you. I can tell by the way you talk that your on the lower end of the totem pole. Hell I bet you probably still live with your parents.

  17. British Colin says:

    The mental gymnastics so-called Christians go through to defend Trump’s repugnant behavior truly brings me pleasure to watch. Trump serially gropes women without their permission, routinely sexualizes his daughter, raped his ex-wife and pulled a chunk of her hair out in a fit of rage, has been married 3 times, and regularly has affairs with Playboy centerfolds and porn stars (with no condom!).

    In fact, the only person he seems to NOT be screwing is his own wife.

    1. JOHN MAHER says:

      THERE AIN’T NOTHING PLEASURABLE about DOTAR ORANGUtRUMP or the RNC/GOP ALL of them PIMPS, THIEVES, LIARS, COWARDS, CAN’T think of MORE RIGHT NOW BUTT I WILL

    2. John Owens says:

      Again, you just sit and lie like Hell about things you cannot possibly know, and don’t even feel guilty. You are a very dishonorable person.

  18. Jim says:

    Well T I think you hold yourself in very high regard. To be judgmental that you can decide on a whole state that it is full of incest and that you would do the human thing to drop a bomb and kill millions. And you can judge who has the soul of the heavenly spirit. I guess you must be a saint or hell even a god yourself to be able to see all these things without probably ever setting foot in the state to which you speak. I truly feel sorry for you my friend because first I think your full of S but more if you truly believe what you say then there is no sense in talking about it anymore, you have went over the wire and while the lights are on I don’t think any one is home.

    1. T'Keren Valmaz says:

      I am a Libra that means yes I am based on my astrological sign meant to judge others. Call it my celestial given duty.

      And considering I use the name of the lord of demonkind as my handle here well I can safely say I am not trying to come across as a saint. But I do place Demons as equal to gods and the Lord of Demonkind as above gods in the cosmic power totem pole. Meanwhile you are clearly a radicalized false christian pray and pass the ammunition type so yeah there is no reason to act civilly to the american equivalent of a violent islamic jihadist.

  19. Tigerz says:

    Politicians and Priests. Maybe the big problem is with the P P.

  20. John Owens says:

    Everyone has ideals to which they aspire but fall short. Let he among you that is without sin cast the first stone. Otherwise, STHU.

  21. David Cecil Winebrenner says:

    As much as I remember from school is that in the U.S. there is a separation of church and state. Is it morally right? No of course not and I think that may be some people’s issues. However no matter what you personally believe it doesn’t give anybody the right to put down someone else’s beliefs. Or to attack their character. We look at Mormon religions out west you have those who practice polygamy. Muslims doing the same in the Middle East and Asia. We have the church of Bob and the church of wizzards. Who are we as Christian’s to judge another that is God’s place. As Christian’s we need to quit preaching if we do not follow the word ourselves read John 8. For all of us live in sin and Jesus is the only man who was without sin. We must follow the path of Christ and live through him. Not try to be him. We are all still learning and we all have much to learn from Jesus. Instead of translating it to what we want to hear let’s listen to what Jesus has said unto us.

  22. Mitchell Halper says:

    The ends never justify the means. No one who’s read Matthew and believes in it’s wisdom could vote for or support Trump. No man can serve God and money. Love your enemy. Someone who even looks on a woman with lust has committed adultery, judge not least he be judged,etc. It’s not that he sins, it’s that he is full of pride, lies and flaunts his sins. Very convenient morality among so called Christians throughout history, nothing new here.

  23. R. Hill says:

    The Donald is needed for these end of days to come to a start and an end.

  24. Minister Dorothy says:

    The current occupant of the oval office is morally bankrupt why do evangelicals condone his behavior? Political power this is just as morally wrong

    1. JOHN MAHER says:

      ITs CALLED GREED, PLAIN GREED, A FAKE BELIEF in THEIR OWN GOD and ONLY FAITH in the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR, FOLLOW the PIMP DOTAR ORANGUtRUMP

  25. James says:

    This is a weird thread. You can almost tell the one thing that unites us all is that we’re willing to be ordained online. That’s not troll talk. I’m saying we’re all perfectly willing to be dramatically unorthodox to get something accomplished. That is a mild defense of Trump voters generally. However, many ULC ministers seem to use the ULC ordination as a shortcut to Christian ordination, rather than noticing ULC ordination is ordination into a post Christian idea, regardless the intent of the founder. As for Trump, bravo for attempting to be an outsider. When it comes to the Trump supporters, bravo for a willingness to pursue unorthodox methods when it seemed necessary in your eyes. I think you were mistaken.

    1. Ben says:

      If Trump supporters represent some kind of Christian ideal, then praise be the Gods that I was ordained through the ULC as a Pagan High Priest. It’s a shame that Christianity now espouses: money worship, racism, sexism, rape, betraying Democracy, intolerance, lying, hatred of the poor, etc … because that’s what Trump is about.
      It seems that the teachings of Christ and love thy neighbor have been cast aside.

      1. JOHN MAHER says:

        HEAR YE, HEAR YE, BEN !!!

        1. Ben says:

          Thank you brother.

      2. Gwendolyn Lord says:

        Bright Blessings Ben. I am always glad that I walk my faith path, and have no connection with falsehoods. Jesus must be mightily dismayed at what occurs under his faith-flag.

  26. Bill Fox says:

    We’ve sunk a long way down from marriage is between a man and a woman.

    1. Ben says:

      Doesn’t matter what sex 2 consenting adults are,who marry. The point is, stick to your wedding vows or divorce.

    2. Beth K says:

      The Bible shows a lot of models for marriage as Godly.
      1) 1 man 1 woman
      2) 1 man, 1 woman, and her maidservant(s)
      3) 1 man, many women
      4) 1 man, many women, and MANY concubines
      5) 1 woman and her rapist
      6) A conquering Army and the virgins, including girls, of the defeated.
      7) 1 man, 1 woman, and her sister
      8) 1 man, and as many girls and women as suited him to purchase from their fathers

      1. Ben says:

        That’s old testament. Christ came and brought a New testament and he says NOTHING about homosexuality.

        1. bethkz says:

          I would refer you to Matthew 5:18-19: (5:18) “Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (5:19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.”

          The Old Testament is part of the Christian Bible, and is part of Christian teachings.

          1. Oh Mo says:

            Bethkz – I still didn’t see the term “homosexuality” or any reference to it in your quote. Want to try again? You are free, in America, to believe as you wish, but you are NOT free to try to force your unicorn farts on others. It’s called the First Amendment and most often referred to as the right to freedom from religion. Go back to church and worship your god and let everyone else worship, or not, as they see fit.

          2. bethkz says:

            Homosexuality is not referred to in Matthew, nor is selling your daughter into sexual slavery nor is sacrificing your daughter. Those are both parts of those pesky “jots & tiddles” to which Jesus was referring.

            Sorry if you don’t like it, but that is Christian scripture.

            I can only write my own thoughts. I don’t have the power to force my opinions on anybody. If you believe something, great, but please at least try to be consistent about it – before you force someone else to follow it, often with the power of the State.

            I choose not to worship the Christian God, nor to refer to myself as a Christian.

          3. Ben says:

            What about Leviticus 20:10? If any of you men have sex with another man’s wife, both you and the woman will be put to death.

            When does this start happening?

          4. bethkz says:

            Ben – it seems that a lot of people like to call themselves Christian and wear that label so they can put down others who don’t wear that label. It just seems that nobody wants to follow the teachings, except a few they cherry pick for themselves, and a few they cherry pick that somebody else is NOT following.

            When is the last time you saw anybody stone a disobedient child at the city gates? (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
            When the secular authorities find someone selling their daughter into sexual slavery (Exodus 21:7) or sacrificing her (Judges 11:31-39), they lock the parents up.

            This is still part of Christian teaching, still part of the scripture, which Christianity’s founder (Jesus) said people must follow if they are following him.

            To end any confusion, I don’t call myself a Christian. I have had to learn enough of Christian scripture to defend myself from the cherry-picked verses that say I deserve eternal torment for anything I could possibly do in a finite lifetime, and how these alleged Christians will enjoy it – in love, of course.

  27. Rev. Dr. Marion Ceruti says:

    It is absurd to think that getting things done and having high moral values are mutually exclusive. I support President Trump and his effort to improve our country, especially in the face of unprecedented opposition and disrespect. I agree with 90 % of what he says and 95 % of what he does. He is the president and I believe that he has made an effort to improve his behavior, as opposed to his speech, over the last decade. He espouses Christian values because he wants to improve. We want our presidents and all of our other elected official to be perfect but generally they are not. If anyone becomes perfect in the spiritual sense it is not because he or she ran for political office.

    If you don’t agree with the President’s policies, visit whitehouse.gov and send him a message advising him where you think he went wrong and what he should do instead. Be logical, factual, polite, and respectful if you want your message to get through. A friendly note is much more likely to be effective than any rant full of hate speech devoid of a real message.

    While you are on the web site, take a look at what he is accomplishing for the US. The main-stream news media will not tell you much of anything about the good he has done.

    I want to improve myself, to strive for greater spiritual goals. In my efforts to improve, I want to choose love and respect over hate and discontent. Remember that God is in charge of this world, not us. As a minister, I want to make a difference in people’s lives. As ministers we should all lead the effort to spread love and joy. Please join me in doing what we can to contribute and in praying for the success of our country, regardless of who is in elected office.

    1. Ben says:

      Trump didn’t go wrong, he’s been that way his entire adult life.

  28. anonymous4u4me says:

    Accusations are not proof, why people are so quick to condemm without proof is almost scary. They would not want people to judge them just on an accusation or accusations, so why not give the same to others. Was a time when a man or his reputation was not destroyed in the press or by a few slinging mud. Was a time when a man was given due process before most would consider judging him,but not today, a selfish society that thinks others do wrong but not them so lets forget about how to deal with things so an innocent is not hurt or destroyed, unless that innocent is me. Many who condemm Trump for so called sexual acts, did not or still do not find Bill Clintons so called sexual acts bad, so why the hypocrisy? I did not vote for either, I have no politcal affiliations what so ever, but find that justice would be best served if they both were treated equal, and judged by due process, which is what are Republic is all about. Judging people by accusations, or mob rule mentality is shamefull, a disgrace, and fits right in with those that think we are a democracy and have no idea what a republic is all about. Christ problems started with accusations and most were willing to condem just on that alone.

  29. Glenn says:

    Look, addressing the Stormy issue and ignoring a world of crime nullifies all your spray on piety and patriotism. He’s a rapist, a child molester and an accessory in countless crimes. This is a deliberate distraction and I’m wondering how much moral outrage you’ve wasted on others. Or are you just selling your own morals for a fake tax cut?

  30. CBW says:

    I would expect better from this news source then to spread fake news. She claims she has proof but does not bring it forth. A picture in a social gather is not proof of sex. This is crap news and a bitch with a picture of her and Donald years ago at a Vegas porn awards show REALLY. That was a good 20 years ago or stormy age 4 times as fast as any woman ever.

  31. Gwendolyn Lord says:

    Regardless of your faith path….Morality should be an innate character trait. The Evangelical movement often talks out of both sides of their mouths, so their continued support of Trump does not surprise me. Too many of THEIR ministers and leaders have been caught out in what we would consider morally compromising situations.
    As to morals…When someone enters into the partnership of marriage, it is an assumption that honesty and fidelity is part of that emotional and spiritual compact. (Not sure what promises Trump made in his vows. Considering his history, he has had his fingers crossed a few times.)

    However, when one takes on the role of President, the general populace, including other nations, would presume that a world leader would have integrity, and some kind of moral compass, as to truth, discipline, kindness, and the ability to RESTRAIN THEMSELVES
    when it comes to earthly “temptations”.
    Trump has none of the qualities of a world leader, or even the head of a successful business person. His rudeness, intolerance, condescending manner, and ever rampant ego make him a figure of fun, a figure of fear, and hardly the diplomatically and culturally
    sensitive being needed to lead a nation.

  32. Rick R Williams says:

    Trump wins again by a landslide in 2020…cry me a river snowflakes

  33. Joannie says:

    April 5, 2018 at 2:25 am

    My thoughts are only that while we all are sinners in the eyes of God, His message is loud and clear. That being said and understood, WHO ARE WE to pass judgement? As one who walks this earth, we are sinners. None perfect. We can pray with people to try to enrich their lives. We can pray and give comfort to those in pain. We can only pray that those that have sinned against God have asked HIS forgiveness. Again, judgement is not ours or to publicly denounce those that have been put in the spotlight proclaiming they sinned. The “media” does not sit in judgement, either. We do not condone bad behavior, but, our responsibility is to do whatever we can to spread the word of God, comfort those we can, help when we can and let God handle the rest. If we do anything more, WE are declaring ourselves as judges. If we do anything less, we are not doing our job as Christians.

    1. Ben says:

      Joannie;
      First, I’m not a Christian. So, I’m not a sinner as I don’t believe in sin. If if we don’t judge our leaders, how are we to know whether or not to re-elect? Doesn’t a jury sit in judgment of the accused?

  34. Father Fred says:

    The question asked is “Are ‘Christian Values’ A Farce?” I don’t think they are a farce, but many people are, including a minority of the faithful. An accusation is not ground of an action. Anyone can be accused. And to be blunt, before we judge Donald Trump those who are faithful remember about having no sin and casting the first stone. Today the news media and people on social media order river rock by the ton as it’s their only lifeline to being relevant in their empty world. I’ll say this in closing, while I don’t know if Donald did it or not, I really don’t care as I don’t have all the FACTS. And I find it hard to believe a porn actress who has been goaded and pushed by the media to “tell her story”. Ask yourself, who gains in this exploit. And let’s be fair, many on the opposition have done far worse without remorse or accountability. Again, I don’t care. And I would hope that those with lower IQs who continue to troll social media, news, and public forums realize they have nothing to gain except to paint themselves as disturbed.

  35. secretary3rd says:

    Being photograph with a person and it being in media does not mean that they are going out with each other. POTUS Trump have been photograph with hundreds of men and women, dogs and cats. It does not mean any type of relations are going on. If I wanted to have one of the ladies I know being photograph with any of you gentleman it would not be hard to in social media say that both of you are lovers. If that lady was 350 pounds instead of many pounds smaller it would be a joke.

  36. Oh Mo says:

    Surprisingly, “christian” values are not “christian” in any sense. The “christian” values christians claim America is founded on came from other religions and philosophies. Even Jesus’ great commandment, love thy neighbor as thyself was first put into text by the Chinese philosopher, Kong Qui, more than 500 years before Good ‘ll Hey-Suse walked on Israeli dirt. And since the books of the new testament weren’t committed to writing for nearly 300 years after Hey-Suse preached, it is doubtful he ever said it. Nothing in christianity is new, different, or better than any other guiding principles. The differences lie with the christians, themselves, and their unearned arrogance.

  37. Jim says:

    Funny we talk about what is said in the old testament, New testament, Pagan, Jewish, Hindu, Muslim. All of these teachings were written by MEN, all interpreted by different Men. Most say relatively the same things in one form or another. Who said it first, Who said it more often. Folks these are things that were written a long time ago and have been interpreted by many over the years. Translated from one language to another. Anytime you have an interpreter there is things “lost in translation”. The basics are the same in most of the texts. Concentrate on the basics Teachings.

    1. Ben says:

      Jim … most (witchcraft)paganism was written less then a hundred years ago and most of it by women. A vast majority of these writers are still alive.

      1. M PHILLIP says:

        Paganism is any non-christian religion not considered a major religion, and depending the christian sect making the claim that includes every religion on the planet except christianity. Seriously, read the definition in a dictionary. And what writers are you pointing out? Names, please, along with birth dates and death dates to support the supposition. Let’s start with Druidism, maybe some Odinism, Shamanists, Sikhism, Wicca, Kemetism,Taoism, and on and on. Or pick out three of YOUR favorites you think fits YOUR definition. Are you SURE you want to say “most”?

        1. Ben says:

          Surprisingly, I’m educated and know that definition. That’s why I specified witchcraft-paganism. Wicca was created by Gardner and his peers, but Silver Ravenwolf really brought it mainstream in the 90’s. Druidism was lost. Neo-Druidry exists largely due to the A.D.F. and Isaac Bonewitz (recently deceased). Le’s not forget Laurie Cabot who debunked all the connections of neo-paganism to Satanism. If you want to know more, either ask more respectfully or go check out your local library.

          1. bethkz says:

            You’re both right. Paganism simply means that it’s a non-Abrahamic religion. Certainly, there are Paganisms that have been here 1000s of years – Hinduism, Shinto, many many tribal and animist faiths, and some dead ones, such as Druidism.

            Druidism was lost, along with all of the regional Pagan religions practiced in various regions of Europe about 2000-1800 years ago. There may be a few remnants of them in superstition and folklore, but those are lost completely. Wicca was created by Gardner, much of his Book of Shadows written by Doreen Valiente, Aleister Crowley, and Mir Bashir – all of whom were alive in the 1940s, some living into the 1990s. It became mainstreamed by authors such as Alex Sanders and Sybil Leek in the 1960s, Janet & Stewart Ferrar in the 1970s, Margot Adler and Skyhawk in the 1980s, and others since then.

            Wicca has numerous “traditions”, but none of these traditions can be traced back much before 1950. Alex Sanders had a different “tradition” than Gerald Gardener, allegedly learned from his Grandmother, but his book of shadows was almost identical to Gardener’s. In all of it, there are whole chunks taken from the rituals of Freemasonry.

            All spiritual beliefs seem to have a mythical need to be “ancient” systems, as revealed by God (under some definition) to ancient people in simpler ties – although they may be reputed to have a great deal more than modern humans in some way in terms of life expectancy, wealth, land, or technology. These claims lack any evidence.

            Nonetheless, it’s much more appealing to follow a religion which is very ancient than to follow one that was revealed to a prophet about a week ago last Thursday.

  38. Deborah says:

    He’s leader of the United States of America. I think people can reasonably expect the ‘bar’ to be higher for the President. It’s no more complicated than that. He’s the example of whom American children are supposed to aspire. Pretty poor example. Makes one want to cover the childrens’ eyes and plug their ears, or at least to explain to them that he’s an example of doing it wrong. And if he’s claiming to have Christian values; it’s a poor example for Christians too.

  39. Bro. James the Apostate, OSHSF says:

    Yes. The Fundamentalists entered into a contract with Absolute Evil, when they sold their souls – along with any decency they had – for power. Whether Jerry Falwell Jr. “saved” him or not, it seems everything that comes out of the So-Called-Ruler-Of-The-United-States (“SCROTUS”) is vile and divisive, giving transparency to everything that is within him.

    Matthew 15:10 – 20 (KJV)

    10And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

    12Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? 13But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. 14Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

    15Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. 16And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? 17Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

  40. L. Michael Black says:

    Spiritual people, not “Christian” phonies, might try to be like the lotus flower. It is the rarest of all plants in botany because it germinates its seed, grows and blossoms in muddy waters. The life of every human being is as unique as this botanical wonder. Life started for more than a few us in an abyss of dirty water. What develops is up to what’s inside the seed. Just as a mighty oak tree resides within an acorn, the capability to change ourselves and the world resides within each of us, bar none. The life of a human being is limited only by the condition of one’s belief system. Beliefs are like the body, and behavior its shadow. As the body bends, bobs, and germinates weaves, so does its shadow.

    COMMON SENSE is the glue making all things possible. Common Sense is required to be an advocate for peace, especially inner peace and WORLD PEACE. It is important to understand that everything we experience leaves a signal or a prompt within our intellect. Many are unaware that the intellect is not the key to changing “self.” Instead, it is the lock. Our interpretation of experience is related to the law of cause and effect, which is a primary characteristic of dualistic thinking. When we like something, we consider it right. We support and accept it as our truth. But when we dislike something it is thought to be wrong or evil. Consequently, we are against it and reject it as being contrary to our beliefs.

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