A 12-year-old girl named Savannah took the stage in front of her entire Mormon church congregation during what's known as a "Fast and Testimony Meeting". Savannah stepped up to the microphone and proceeded to deliver a heartfelt speech revealing that she is gay.
Her testimony, which had been carefully prepared, offered a message of tolerance, love and acceptance -- that is, until her mic was shut off and she was asked by church officials to sit down. Unbeknownst to them, the whole thing was caught on camera. Watch the full video below:
Immediate Reactions
Only a few sentences away from finishing her speech, Savannah became visibly confused as her mic went dead. After telling Savannah to sit down, a senior church member went to the lectern and tried to smooth things over.
However, the message was clear: the church disapproved of Savannah's testimony and decided to censor her.
Fortunately, Savannah's mother was there to comfort the distressed 12-year-old: "She came off crying to me. We both walked out to the hall, and I held her face in my hands and told her over and over that she is perfect and good. That there is nothing wrong with who she is, that she is brave and beautiful."
How It All Began
In many ways, Savannah is a typical teenage girl. She loves drawing and art, and plans to become a Disney animator when she grows up. As it turns out, she also happens to be gay.
About a year ago Savannah came out to her parents, who were immediately supportive. Relieved to get past this first hurdle, Savannah then began the long journey of coming out to her extended family. But she didn't stop there. Confident in her new identity, Savannah decided to take things a step further.
"I had a feeling I should come out to the church," Savannah said shyly. "I came out to all of my family and I just wanted to do something more."
A Brave Moment
Initially, Savannah's parents were a bit taken aback by her desire to come out in front of the entire Mormon congregation. They were hesitant to give their approval, knowing that the message may not be well received. However, seeing how serious their daughter was, they eventually gave consent.
Reflecting on the whole ordeal, Savannah's mother offered some thoughts:
"I'm proud of her, even now, she doesn't want any of this to be about her, she wants it to be about protecting other LGBT kids She wants her story told so that this doesn't happen to other kids."
An Ongoing Struggle: Being Mormon and Gay
Revealing the true nature of your sexuality can be a difficult experience for any person. But as a Mormon, coming out can be exceptionally uncomfortable. For decades, the Church of Latter Day Saints took a strong stance against homosexuality, claiming that it was an affront to God.
While the church has softened its views in recent years, it's clear that a rift continues to exist within the Mormon community. Church officials might claim to be accepting of gay people, but Savannah's story indicates that this message of acceptance has yet to fully take root.
Too Young?
The intentions behind Savannah's testimony appear to have been selfless and genuine. She wasn't trying to cause drama, create a scene, or become the center of attention; she simply wanted to share a message of acceptance.
However, some people have raised concerns about Savannah's age. At 12-years-old, is she really qualified to declare her sexual orientation? Is it possible, critics ask, that she's just a confused pre-teen?
147 comments
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Robert
she is a 12 year old girl ,sure i am sure she has feelings of getting turned on but she does not know her butt from a hole in the ground and besides that a church is not the place to come out, now with that out of the way let me ask a question here, now what goes on in the privacy of one's bedroom is no one 's business right? well if you are telling everyone that you are gay then are you not making it everyone else 's business of what goes on in your bedroom?
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John Maher
I have LIVED AROUND the WORLD and KNOW that HOMOSEXUALITY is PREVALENT in the MORMON SOCIETY, in LATIN AMERICA the GRUESOME TWOSOME are CALLED PALTUDOS, BALLs PAIRED............ WOMEN WE DO NOT SEE as MUCH BUTT my COUSIN MARRIED a MORMON GIRL WHO WENT BONGOs in NEW YORK, MORMONISM is JUST another RICH CULT, DUMP the IGNORAMUS tRUMP,GOD is GREAT so is the US of A
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Rev. Andy
Some WD-40 will help release that caps key that keeps sticking.
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JEFF Ratliff
i am a single father that is gay and i dress like a female at times and my church will not turn any one away like them fools plus my church says come as you are god takes everyone and he does not turn his back on any one
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C
Jeff that's what church is suppose to be about, not judging and welcoming all whom come to worship the Great Lord Jesus Christ.
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Rev Cindy
Very true
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AirenWolf
What an amazing place you have found! Church should be a sanctuary where you feel loved and supported for being who you are. Praise to your group.
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Norma Battes
Rdv. Rob June 27, 2017 at 2:09 pm “...well if you are telling everyone that you are gay then are you not making it everyone else ‘s business of what goes on in your bedroom?" Nope, the business that goes on in your mind is yours and yours only.
Rdv. Rob, these declarations, "coming out," is for one purpose only, self-acceptance - acceptance of who they are and acceptance of their emotions. It has nothing to do sex either in or out of the bedroom. Sexualizing anyone's feelings is immature and sexualizing a young girl is beyond comment. She may have intense emotional feelings for a friend (or all females) that she interprets as love and so what? At her age she is exploring, discovering herself and if it gives her peace then great. Better that then the torture from fear and self-loathing at being thought of as sick and depraved. If you believe in God then trust that she has a purpose. And not as just another wasted soul for Satan.
(What's a Rdv anyway?)
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Eric Beaulieu
Humurous snd insightful appreciate the fresh perspective
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Mark
I think back when I was 12 - hmm, I was more concerned about fishing, baseball and hanging with my male friends. Girls.... nah, they were just a nuisance at 12. I think this young lady has been influenced by all the media. Everyday we see news or shows about gays, transsexuals and other new sexual orientations. Has she even hit puberty? Nah, sounds like a confused pre-teen.
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diggeriraq
I agree with you.
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Cindy
Sorry I disagree!!!
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Mark
Sorry you had an abnormal childhood Cindy.
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Krystal Patterson
Cindy obviously had a normal child hood. A 12 year old child is being influenced by an abnormal society and her parents are buying into it as well. Sad, abnormal, pathetic and sick, Mark. Homosexuality is not normal and never will be. Not knowing which sex you want to be, or which sex you should be with, is a physiological, mental disorder. When someone cannot connect to the reality that 2 men cannot procreate and 2 women cannot procreate, than they need help to reach reality. Whether you are a Christian or not, a man and a woman were created for a reason. Not 2 men and not 2 women. It is common sense, science and logic any way that you look at it. Just because a group of people start a club called the lgbtq that caters to the sexual perversions of the misguided, does not mean the that the world must jump on their crazy train and accept this mental disorder. I just pray that the world wakes up and sees that bowing down to these mentally handicapped individuals is a huge mistake.
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Dee
Krystal. You call yourself a Christian? Shame on you for insulting people with mental disabilities and for being so ignorant that you think being gay is a club!! You truly do not know who God is!!
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Brian Ross
WWJD... for those that don't know, my comment is what would Jesus do? I believe the answer is he would love this child no matter what and allow her to develop as she would naturally. Gay? Straight? We are all children of a loving God
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Cindy
My childhood was completely normal thank you very much. As is my adulthood. I was taught to love a person I look at their spirit I'm sorry you don't.
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Ceci
This child is NOT ABNORMAL. What's so different about her than you or any other person born into this world? Nothing!!! You think drinking, smoking, drugs, adultery, lying, sexual perversion, multible sexual experiences etc are any different in Gods eyes. Sin is sin and not one sin is greater than another. Ask yourself did Jesus hate the prositute, the thief ect? NO he found forgiveness in his heart and continued to love. That's the problem with modern religion. Everybody thinks they are so smart and that God chose them to be the judge. NOT. Pray for the child to change her beliefs but except that she was created in Gods image and he does not make mistakes. Maybe he has a bigger plan for her that all the misinformed and uneducated in this topic lack to see.
Love unconditionally and open your eyes to the bigger picture in front of you. Love is great and does not fail.-
Cindy
Well said
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Norma Battes
Mark Stricklett July 5, 2017 at 5:18 am " Sorry you had an abnormal childhood Cindy. "
Mark, you are having an abnormal adulthood. Man-up and stop it.
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Thomas Lightning Bolt
so do I Cindy! : )
Good for you!
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james hignite
I agree. A 12 year old is still going through a lot of physical/chemical body changes that have an effect on the mind. I will pray for this young lady.
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Rev paul
A twelve year old is just starting to bit puberty and their bodies are going through changes i a gree this is to young to know if your gay or not
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Donna
I agree with you as well. A child is not old enough legally to have sex until the legal age of consent (the age the state deems appropriate, usually between 16-18). How can a pre-adolescent or an adolescent for that matter understand her mixed hot-bed of feelings and emotions? It is only natural for a female youngster to "be attracted" to other females because she "understands" them: however, it isn't sexual. It's also natural at this age NOT to be "attracted" to boys, which isn't sexual either. It's called adolescence for a reason.
Most women are nurturers by nature. What girls "feel" toward other girls is affection-not lust. We as parents are to direct and encourage our children on the path to understanding who God created them to be. Parents are to help children navigate this very difficult time in their lives. This young girl isn't old enough to understand the ramifications of her actions. I believe her parents should have been supportive and in so doing encouraged her to wait before "coming out" in church, especially one that strictly forbids homosexuality. Now unfortunately, the direction of her path is no longer determined by natural means but by the media attention she receives.
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Jerry Spencer
I agree with you as well. A child is not old enough legally to have sex until the legal age of consent (the age the state deems appropriate, usually between 16-18). What society teaches and not GOD. She is innocent of what she knows about being. Gay is wrong even the thought of it is wrong. She is young and she has a lot of growing to maturity. Sex is something that has being abused. Even the church is wrong by what they did. I know this is not a Church of GOD but a church of man. They should have ministry to her to help to better understand that being gay is wrong in the eye of GOD. Man thinks it is okay! GOD has called me into HIS Ministry to preach HIS word to a dying world.
From Ministry Spencer!
Read more at https://www.themonastery.org/blog/2017/06/mormon-girl-silenced-after-coming-out-as-gay-in-church/#SoVMRD80wIFbdPuh.99
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Eric Beaulieu
Very true we should be looking to the old values not what society is trying to make normal
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Thomas Lightning Bolt
Pull your head out of your ignorant American ass! Children in some European countries start having sex with each other around the ages of 11-13! And it is NORMAL! You are a jack ass!
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Rev. Jon
There is no reason to be crude.
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jeremy cloward
I know this girl, and her mother. I am actually in Chat with her right now, and sent her this issue. I can assure you, she is very aware of what she is feeling, and has been dealing with for the last few years. Most gay people I know told me that they understood they were sexually different at a very young age. They are forced into dealing with long before the rest of us come of age. She is not confused, the only confusion she has had over this was when the Mic turned off and she didnt know what happened. The LDS Church has made it very clear that they will do everything they can to let homosexuals know they are not welcome, and that god will never accept them or love them. The young LGBT suicide rate in Utah is the highest in the country. She has faced an onslaught of vitriolic hatred from members of her own family since she did this. The LDS church pays extraordinary amounts of money into "Repairitive Therapy", internal programs to seek and destroy, divide and conquer any members who are "Cursed" with "Same Sex Attraction". This young girl decided in the face of all that, she had to tell everyone that this whole idea was wrong. She is going to put aside all of that, and accept gods love, on gods terms not the church's. Puberty and physical attraction has nothing to do with it, if you think it does, then, you have no understanding of this issue. She will be seen for generations coming as a very brave, strong girl, and an icon for the LGBT community within the LDS church. If it prevents one teen suicide, and gives some other kid strength to come out, and not fear the family and church, then she served the purpose for why she was born gay, and why god put her where she was that very morning.
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SEAN THOMAS
Mark , your remarks show a true lack of understanding of what being gay is all about. It is not a feeling, a fad, or a rebellious period, it is who you are. I have known I was gay since I was 10 years old....I dreamed of having a special boy in my life. My first crush, though he never knew it, lol, is a Judge. I am so happy that we live in an age when one can express his or her, feelings and not live in the closet of despair, hopelessness and self loathing ..
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Norma Battes
Mark Stricklett June 27, 2017 at 2:36 pm " I think back when I was 12 – hmm, I was more concerned about fishing, baseball and hanging with my male friends. Girls…. nah, they were just a nuisance at 12. " Sooo, you are a professional baseball player and you go "fishing" with all those studly male "friends." Cool.
" Nah, sounds like a confused pre-teen. " Nah, you weren't confused at all at 12. Yup.
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Cindy
Kiddos to Savana. I'm sorry people are uneducated, you be whoever you want to be. I do know about morman standards I don't agree with them. When I was married to my first husband his sister went on her mission like most her age. She met a guy over when she was at and he was smitten by her. When she came home he came too. Shortly after they became engaged. Not long after she broke of the engagement. And it was not long after she came out as being gay. She was ex communacated from the church some of the family stood by her a lot did not. She told me. A friend was at my house and he tried to tell her it was against God's Law for her to be gay. Her response I will never forget she said if God did not want me to be gay he would not have let me and when I do what mission he has for me and wants me straight again he will make me straight again? I don't think a church should get in your business. Now the bible says for one man and one women to be together not 2 women or 2 men. Last time I checked we are not judge and jury, that's for God to do when the time comes. Our job is to love our neighbor as ourself. I have many friends who our gay. And a few transgendered as well they are my friends. For those who have issues with this young lady it's their issue not hers.
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Lee
I wouldn't lay this on the stairs of the Mormon temple. Gay bigotry is popular among all religions. Bigotry with the name of God slapped on it is a dangerous choice. Many pulpits justify bigotry starting with "Jesus said" and ending with what he meant when he said it. That same pulpit wouldn't dare send a text without a zillion "lol"s or "ha ha"s. Without tone, facial expression, timing, etc. nobody knows what a text really means. "Jesus meant" will not stand before my God and King and answer for those the church denied his divine love. Sadly many of the people denied their faith were told it was Gods will. Many end up having no faith at all. I try and remind them that the never ending love of God is given freely through the murder of his son. His only son. Start the day in prayer and ask for his divine wisdom. End your day in prayer and say thank you. Everything in between is faith. So often the cast out were the backbone of the church. The church better wake up. Without a spine the body of Christ will fall.
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inga
i seen a documentary once an an older guy.. late 60s who held onto his secret as long as he could, through his marriage and the raising of his children.. but there came a time, he felt to be honest with himself , and those around him. . while not exactly, he wanted to be a woman ?? and so he sought out the surgery for.. the end result is the key. he said when all was said and done.. sure he had the parts.. but he lacked the know how to be a woman. the therapy taught him ?? her ?? how to be comfortable with himself.. his conclusion: he said, he should have went for therapy BEFORE the conversion therapy, as this was the real issue, that he missed as a man. it wasnt a gender problem he learned. he was just not comfortable with himself and the therapy taught him that. he, therefore, warned against, and suggested people seek therapy before such drastic measures. he deeply and sincerely regretted his decision. but the therapy did help him become comfortable as a person. and this was the message he asked of his interview with 60 minutes.. that when ever this came up, to share his experience and hopefully save people the pains if an unnecessary surgery. again, while not completely the same.. maybe the girl. would benefit from some therapy. it will either strengthen her beliefs, or weaken them, though as in the gender x post.. there are those who are born in physical variations, like hermiphidites, so there is no reason why we cant assume mental variations as well. . given her age though, it may be wise to pursue the avenue a little farther.
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hsw
Was he in the US? Most surgeons not only require therapy but also require the patient to live for a year as the gender they seek to be, before surgery.
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inga
it was probably 30 years ago.. it is good that they offer insight along with the sugery ahead of time now. it will re inforse the decisions either way. it doesnt hurt to be sure. it does hurt to be wrong. sigh. not the end of the world, but it does hurt.
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Amber
It's required now but that wasn't instated until about... what, 10 years ago? I think I remember seeing this when my son was in diapers. He's 22 now. Where has the time gone? Anyway, I'm a big believer that if someone wishes to make a big change that therapy to figure out why should be sought out, and then any kind of supportive coaching to help with the transition should be had, providing pressing through the changes is ultamately the final decision.
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Cindy
I don't know about the documentary you saw but I know a friend and his wife and children I trained him and then he became my supervisor. He came out to his workers we all thought is was a fade or whatever. He knew what he wanted. First he went to therapy before hormones, then there was a lot more of that required. To get her name brith certificate SS card driver liscense fast forward 5 yrs and she want the final operation to complete her journey. Once again she had to see a therapist the therapist send a letter to her insurance company that was need for them to make desecration as to if they would cover. The final operation is now complete and she has never been more happier
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claimyourpowerblog
• https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/too-many-end-in-suicide-the-dark-history-of-gender-reassignment On August 10, 1979, Dr. Meyer announced his results: “To say this type of surgery cures psychiatric disturbance is incorrect. We now have objective evidence that there is no real difference in the transsexual’s adjustments to life in terms of job, educational attainment, marital adjustment and social stability.” He later told The New York Times: “My personal feeling is that the surgery is not a proper treatment for a psychiatric disorder, and it’s clear to me these patients have severe psychological problems that don’t go away following surgery.”
Ihlenfeld worked with Benjamin for six years and administered sex hormones to 500 transsexuals. Ihlenfeld shocked Benjamin by publicly announcing that 80 percent of the people who want to change their gender shouldn’t do it. Ihlenfeld said: “There is too much unhappiness among people who have had the surgery…Too many end in suicide.” Ihlenfeld stopped administering hormones to patients experiencing gender dysphoria and switched specialties from endocrinology to psychiatry so he could offer such patients the kind of help he thought they really needed.
Under his guidance, I underwent gender reassignment surgery and lived for eight years as Laura Jensen, female. Eventually, I gathered the courage to admit that the surgery had fixed nothing—it only masked and exacerbated deeper psychological problems. The deception and lack of transparency I experienced in the 1980s still surround gender change surgery today. For the sake of others who struggle with gender dysphoria, I cannot remain silent.
It is intellectually dishonest to ignore the facts that surgery never has been a medically necessary procedure for treating gender dysphoria and that taking cross-gender hormones can be harmful. Modern transgender activists, the descendants of Kinsey, Benjamin, and John Money, keep alive the practice of medically unnecessary gender-change surgery by controlling the flow of published information and by squelching research and personal stories that tell of the regret, unhappiness, and suicide experienced by those who undergo such surgery. Negative outcomes are only acknowledged as a way to blame society for its transphobia.
• http://www.sexchangeregret.com/ transgender sex change regret Contrary to what you may think, male-to-female sex change surgery is a sex change in name (documentation) only. Sex change surgery is only a cosmetic procedure to make it look like a change was made, when in fact no female “parts” are used. Did you know? No amount of surgery, hormone injection or anything else can, or will, change the birth gender DNA. It is absolute. The only thing the surgeon can change is the medical record, birth records and the perception that a change took place on the operating table. A DNA test would prove no sex change took place. Sex change regret may come years later when you understand the surgery did not make you a female or change your DNA gender/sex.
Walt Heyer, author of Paper Genders, A Transgender's Faith and Perfected with Love: "I myself was diagnosed with gender identity disorder and underwent sex change surgery. Seven years later, I realized sex change surgery was not treatment at all. I was misdiagnosed. I was suffering from a dissociative disorder that required talk therapy, not surgery." • http://www.businessinsider.com/sex-transition-plastic-surgery-statistics-2017-5
• https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/woman-dies-from-complications-after-sex-change-surgery
• https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/the-pain-of-transgender-regret MercatorNet: Why don’t we hear much about people who have “detransitioned”, like yourself? Walt Heyer: There is an important reason. They are so ashamed and devastated about their mistake that they do not want to come forward. Walt Heyer: There is no evidence that transgenders are born that way. There is, however, evidence that they are suffering from untreated mental disorders such as bipolar disorder, dissociative disorder, separation anxiety, schizophrenia, and personality disorder.
Studies show 77 to 94 percent of young people who identify with gender dysphoria will not identify as gender dysphoria as adults. In other words, they grow out of it. The media will show the young people as happy early on. Everyone is happy early on. But the media doesn’t show them years after, when their feelings change, which goes back to the point about regretters not wanting to go public. The media will not talk about the alcoholism, drug addiction, homelessness, poverty and suicide as the real picture of the transgender life.
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Amber
Unfortunately the abuse people suffer for being different has a much higher degree of influence over all this than anyone seems to give it credit. Granted many of those undtreated mental disorders may exist in many cases, these menal conditions also exists to quite a high degree in people who are what we consider straight and shouldn't be exclusively linked to homo/transexuality or implied as it's cause.
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Jess Martin
Faith comes by hearing the word of God, or maybe sometimes you're just born into a family tradition. Belonging to Mormonism, especially if you're a woman or non-white, I just can't understand. The book of Mormon reads like pulp fiction. The claims it makes about civilization on the American Continents are absurd. I think, I hope in time this 12 yr old will grow in grace and the knowledge of God and find her way to Christ. But whatever faith or lifestyle she chooses I hope she studies history and science and becomes a huge success.
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Ama Nazra
Kudos from me to Savannah too. I know a number of adults who knew they were gay or lesbian when they were very young (under 12). They were not forced that way, or made that way by abuse; I also know a woman who is bisexual, and knew that before she was 12. Kids grow up way too fast these days, but in all cases, the parents are 'straight', some horrified with their children's choices, others supporting. It is my firm belief that God made these people who they are, and since God is supposed to have made us all in his/her image, I don't think we have a right to force our fears and phobias on them.
The new gender definitions has me a bit puzzled though, given that my adult daughter recently told me that she had decided her gender was an attack helicopter .. and, knowing her, I am not entirely sure she was kidding. ;-)
We are all individuals, and what others do in the privacy of their own 'bedrooms', as long as it harms no-one, is none of my business. If being who they are is so important and they feel a need to share that with me, I am happy to listen, and happy to support anything that makes them a better person for themselves and for others. God loves us all, its about time we remembered that we are supposed to love everyone else too.
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claimyourpowerblog
You are nothing less than love itself. You are fashioned in the image and likeness of God, not in terms of your physical appearance, but in terms of your energy. You are made of pure love. Everything in you wishes to be the best and most loving person you can be. Everything in you wants to live in harmony with others. Everything in you wishes to create something more. Unhappiness only arises when the flow of love is blocked. Anger, upset, and frustration arise when you block yourself from the experience and energy of love. Note that we say block yourself, for in truth you cannot control the world or anyone else in it. You can’t keep people from being unkind or unloving, but you can choose to love and care for yourself no matter what. You can choose to join others in their dance of anger, upset, and darkness, or you can choose to remain in your love, joy, and light. In the energy of love, the energy of the world’s unkindness cannot harm you. If you choose to love yourself even when others don’t, then they cannot diminish you. If you choose to bear internal witness to the light within another, even when all they show is their darkness and misunderstanding, they will realize they cannot drag you into their sad reality and after a few more attempts, will leave you alone. Their behavior will no longer sway your from your loving center. Love is your greatest power, your greatest weapon against the darkness, and your greatest protection.
https://www.lovehaswon.org/angel-messages-1/messages-from-the-angels-in-the-image-and-likeness-of-love
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claimyourpowerblog
We believe that the purpose of life is to follow God's law, do as God want's, and PLEASE GOD. Yet pleasing God is not the purpose of life. Only an egomanical deity would create beings whose essential purpose was to please him. And only an INSANE egomaniac would then add such treachery and misery to the mix as life contains to virtually guarantee his created beings would stumble and fall. And only an INCREDIBLY cruel, insane egomaniac would go further, saying it doesn't even matter because you ALREADY fell! Before birth!
Jesus told us, and man refuses to believe: We are basically GOOD... not basically BAD.
We do not NEED an angry, vindictive, punishing God to scare us into doing what is "right" from some perspectives/interests of others. Our BASIC human nature, is loving and kind. We are TAUGHT greed. We are TAUGHT fear. We are TAUGHT ugliness, prejudice, violence. We are LOVE.... and we are TAUGHT to be something else!
I was supposed to do this or that. My father told me. The world expects it of me, God DEMANDS it of me. Whatever. Now I'm clear that God demands nothing, the world's expectations are distorted and misplaced, and my father's orders no longer need to be followed.
If there's no sin, what did Jesus die for? As our savior, he saved us from the illusion of our own seperation from God. Jesus is the Son of God, and WE ALL ARE.
His truth about him, and hence about us, was meant to be a demonstration of WHO WE REALLY ARE. Jesus was a Divine Master who possessed ABSOLUTE understanding about himself, and God. He wished to share his truth with the world. Thus, he said "I and the father are one" "Have I not said, 'Ye are gods'" on miracles: "Why are ye so amazed? These things, and more, will YOU do ALSO."
Jesus did not die for our sins, but rather to demonstrate that we are SINLESS. We were made in the image and likeness of God, Which is what Jesus kept trying to tell us, but FEW believed him. He knew that only a real demonstration of Godliness could prove convincing. Well, he resurrected himself from the dead and demonstrated he is God, but many people missed the point. WE ARE ALL THE SAME THING. We started worshiping HIM and HIS demonstration, instead of his message "These things, and more, will YOU do also." "have I said not, 'Ye are gods',
Life is a game, and you have to basic choices. To react to the world as a victim, responding in fear. Or to accept responsibility in your co-creator birthright and express love.
I and my father are one - John 10:30
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one - John 17: 22
That the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them - John 17: 26
"verily, verily I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these he shall do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, I will do it."
Isn't that an EXTRAORDINARY promise? So great and so complete was Jesus's understanding of who he was, and who you are (REMEMBER WHO YOU ARE - "I and my Father are one" he said, and later, "all ye are brethren") that he knew deeply there was NO limit to wha tyou could do if you believed in yourself, or in him. Could there be a mistake about Jesus' declarations here? Could there be a misinterpretation?
NO. His words are very clear. He wanted you to consider yourself One with the Father, exactly as he is One with God. So great was his love for all humankind, so great his compassion at their suffering (from not believing in their connectedness to God - but in their weakness/limits and separation ) that he called upon himself to rise to the HIGHEST level, to move to the grandest expression of his being, in order to present a living example to all humans everywhere, future included.
And than he prayed that we would not only see that the evidence of his Oneness with the Father, but our own as well.
And he warned us the institutions of man would forget this truth, and replace them with their dogmas to keep control.
...and if we could simply believe that we were a part of Christ, we would be by extension necessarily be a part of God.
He emphasized this point many times, but because of it's empowerment to the individual, and the lack of a need for a secular institution to command you - the churches put him on a pedestal and said HE and HE ONLY was the son of god.
To allow the church to dictate what you believe is to deny the message of Christ.
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Ama Nazra
I wish there was a like button for comments like this one. Thank you CYPB. :-)
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claimyourpowerblog
Peace and blessings. The source of that was summarized from the teachings of Neale Donald Walsch, CWG - Conversations with God.
More free resources on these topics for your research:
http://www.nealedonaldwalsch.com/files/part_of_the_change_booklet.pdf
http://www.nealedonaldwalsch.com/files/smp/Mentor_Lessons_28-30.pdf
http://www.nealedonaldwalsch.com/files/HolyExperienceComplete.pdf
http://zeniclinic.com/zen/books/Neale-Donald-Walsch-Friendship-With-God-Volume-4.pdf
You might buy into the fact that you are loved.
You might even begin to see that you are liked.
You might even, just for a minute or two, think, “Sure, I can put a couple of great days back to back, and I’m not so bad.”
But then, it happens. You have one of those no good, awful, horrible bad days. And you blow it.
You yell at your kids.
You lie to a friend.
You speak hurtful words to your spouse.
You judge.
Or worse.
And in the midst of it, you are shocked. Embarrassed. Angry.
You don’t like you right now.
You’d send yourself to your room if you could, but you have to cook dinner.
So you withdraw and hide in your own heart, and hope and pray no one notices.
But, He does. And while you are swimming in the sea of your own guilt and shame, Jesus is tenderly calling out to you, “I want you to know, I think of you as already forgiven.” And somewhere in the middle of washing dishes you begin to believe it. And then, He smiles, and stretches out His arms, and says, “I’ve removed it as far as the East is to the West. It is gone. I carried it away so there would not be anything between us.” It overwhelms and tears drop into your soapy water and right there, in your kitchen on Oak Street, you run into His arms.
Is it like that for you?
It can be.
He wants you to know your sin is not greater than His power of forgiveness.
http://staceythacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/What-God-Wants-You-to-Know-2.pdf
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John Benson
Religion is not God! My God is of the Bible, a God of Love! We are given free will to do as we will, that's a loving God. He didn't say you have to believe in me, its our choice, its our lives to live. But God loves all of us, straight, gay, black, white, everyone regardless of our situations. Its man and religions that try to bend and interpret scripture so it fits their needs. How can you say God is an angry punishing God, he created us, our earth, and allows us to live our lives anyway we desire. The punishment is on judgement day when we all will be accountable for our lives. But if you don't believe that, that's your right, and you have nothing to worry about. Me, I will try my best to follow the Lords teachings and to love all regardless of what they believe each day. Love is the greatest commandment of them all!
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angel
Isn't that a contradiction in statement? If God gave us freewill and the ability to chose, how can he punish us for making the wrong decisions? That punishment would automatically cancel out that freewill,which means we are still being controlled. There is no freewill when we are forced to do something, whether directly or indirectly. Whether the punishment comes immediately or later on. You explanation defeats the entire purpose of freewill, and therefore making it not freewill at all! How do you honestly make choices if punishment if your motivation? Your not doing it because you actually choose to or want to, you do it because your afraid of what will happen if you don't. It makes no sense! Just some food for thought.
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inga
oh com'on . biblically speaking.. she no longer fits in god 's book club. its her choice. he made the rules ahead of time. she is not the exception. dont get me wrong. i dont think she needs to be punished for her differences. but the rules are not going to be bent for her, or any one else no matter how small or big an issue. and THIS is what her parents should be educating her on !! you HAVE to go by the rules of gods book club if you want the rewards of after. else , yoy have limited yourself to human years.
there are other clubs. gay clubs.. bird watching clubs, stamp clubs.. heck, likely now the boy scouts will have to take her if she pushed that club.. lol but the bible CLEARLY states its rules on, and again, this little girl, no matter how cute, and nice her parents are.. well.. sorry. the answer is no.
all clubs have their rules for their own reasonings.
now, she is not written off.. she can get educated and choose to fight her "urges" as demonstration to god.. (not me or you).. "if" she wants to be in the gods book club.. a big IF. she has choices. lets see what she does with them. its not really up to us.
but you cant bring a cat to a dog show.
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Patrick
Have you actually read the bible? Jesus died as a sacrifice so that all who believed in him could go to heaven. We are baptised in the name of the father, the sun and the holy spirit. Standing represents life, they lay you into the water represents death and you are raised our of the water represents resurrection. In the book of Romans it clearly states we are judged by Faith not according to the law. As human beings we are unable to fulfill God's laws and we sin everyday whether we mean to or not and fall short of God's expectations. Tell me if those laws are all still there why don't we follow the old food laws or clean and unclean. You can't declare some laws active and others not. Jesus Gospel is the law as he is God in the flesh who took our punishment. You thank him by condemning people do You think you deserve heaven any of you? if you do then you are blind as no one does so what right do you have to judge anyone as we all are sinners conservatives would do well to remember Jesus never said all gays are bad because those laws died when he died for us and rose from the dead as the new covenant with God started and continues today.
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inga
maybe some of [us] want to evaluate the book club [we] belong to.. even if it is gods book club. you know. if [we] are in disagreeance with.. maybe [we] need to not change gods book club... but make a new one. just saying. wait. yes. thats how new religions are formed arent they ??!!
i guess this little girl is more.. wall street united than mormon. that would be the concensus in our town.
some people are cat people and some people are dog people. some people try and bring their cats to the dog show. and the rest of us with aquariums, leave our fish at home when we go visiting. although.. next time some one asks you for a glass of water, dont be completely caught off guard if they drop their gold fish into it. it could happen. i am not sure what religion they would be.. XXX maybe ?? you fill it in.. lol.
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claimyourpowerblog
Many wise mystics and philosophers would agree that life is a choice between love and fear, and depending on which we choose, moment to moment, a new world opens to us.
Love Tips the Scale
Now, imagine a vibrational scale with fear on one end and love on the other. Choice by choice, every time we choose love over fear, we help tip the scale in favor of love, and we aid in raising humanity’s collective vibration. Making a difference in the world doesn’t require invention, innovation, time, or even money, and, in fact, choosing love is the one thing that makes the biggest difference.
Once love outweighs fear, the world will reach a vibrational threshold where love dominates, and, from that point on, the momentum of love will easily ripple throughout Earth – resulting in peace, cooperation, and abundance for all. No matter how trite, it’s true; love is the answer and love can save the world.
It’s easy to love someone you care about, but what happens to love when faced with those you dislike?
Put Your Weapons Down
Sword, Fist or Anger makes no difference; all forms of defense keep you from the love you seek and the love you have to give. Don’t be fooled by judgment because it’s the biggest weapon of all! As a product of fear and the antithesis of love, you cannot be in love and judgment at the same time, and this means that every time you choose judgment, you reject love. Whether physical or emotional, put your weapons down and choose love.
What Does it Mean to Choose Love?
First ask yourself, “Where am I blocking love in my life?” Maybe instead of shutting down, open your heart, instead of reacting, practice forgiveness, instead of judgment, be compassionate, instead of separating, engage connection, instead of being closed and protective, give love through a genuine smile, handshake, hug, compliment, good deed or some random act of kindness. Make everyone’s day brighter and when you meet people, really see them. Look into their eyes and notice the beautiful beings beneath the masks. When you ask about someone’s day, stop and really listen to the answer! You just never know how a little kindness can change someone’s life!
My mother once asked me, “How can you love everyone – even those who don’t deserve it?” I answered, “But mom, those are the ones who need love the most.”
Your Love Makes a Difference
Love can save the world, but we must all play our parts. What if we miss that vibrational threshold because we are one hug short? Since every act of love and kindness contributes to the whole, let’s not overlook a single opportunity to love and be loved. So love everyone and especially those least lovable, because they need love the most!
More on the topic if interested:
https://openheartedrebel.com/2017/06/27/choose-love-be-change/
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inga
so you go to the wall street united too.. see, there is a time and a place for everyone. i am good with that. so again.. rather than trying to change the mormon religion.. go the toe [united church] that IS thinking your /her way. go to the church that is ok with that. like catholic . unless you reserve the right to divorce. then go anglican . else all is the same. read your doctrines, and find the one that is good for you, rather than assuming you can change me. you got it. this is much like a marriage lecture. its not the partners right to change the spouse !! its not the parishners right to change the doctrines.
adjust or dont. find a new.. [church/partner]. fighting is prohibited.
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angel
But wouldn't tipping the scale and everyone live in peace and harmony defeat the purpose of freewill? I don't think that is what freewill is designed to do. We need conflict in order to learn how to create peace, but not everyone wants peace. You can talk about love but without the deeds of the evil doer's to push the boundaries, you never really know how deep love can go. It's easy to love someone when the deed doesn't directly impact you, but how much love would you have for a person who brutally raped,killed and dumped your three year old daughter in the dumpster as if she was a piece of trash? You can think about it, but when you actually experience, you don't know until your actually walking in those shoes. Only then will you start to begin to understand the depths and capability of unconditional love and or forgiveness. If we all lived in peace and harmony,we would never be able to grow or fully understand the depths that are within us. When there is to much light, we loose ourselves, when there is to much darkness we loose the connection to everyone else. We are individual souls, each unique. We are all part of a collective. I don't think the purpose is agreeing or everyone being on the same page, I think it's about how to exist with one another in spite of the differences without loosing our individuality. I think we are ever changing and each on an individual journey to learn and evolve our souls into whoever we chose to be. Whether light,dark and the rainbow in between, each soul serves a purpose and each contributes to that individual soul evolution and the evolution of the collective whole. But this is just another perspective. :)
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Steven J Frey
Church is not the appropriate place for a twelve year old CHILD to speak about sexual orientation. That child and her parents ambushed the other parishiners. The church was right to stop her speech, regardless if she was straight or gay.
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Chaplain Mike
Actually it's the perfect place since the laws of man imposed on us are derived from people's interpretation of their version of the bible. If society evolves, so does religion. It's no different than when we stood up in churches and synagogues to discuss our changing views on race or women's rights. If we can't openly talk about compassion or human issues, we've missed the message of Christ.
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Steven J Frey
You are missing the point. This kid and her parents decided to subject OTHER people's children to her talk about sexual orientation without the consent of the other children's parents.
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Norma Battes
Steven J Frey July 5, 2017 at 9:14 am " You are missing the point. "
Maybe we all are. Wasn't it a show-and-tell kind of thing that anyone can share about themselves? Unless there are rules about banned subjects like homosexuality. Besides, I felt the girl's share wasn't about her sexuality at all. I thought it was about her acceptance of herself and her faith.
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angel
Since it is a key part of their doctrine, and are taught at a young age about sexual preference and what is acceptable and what is not,I think it was very appropriate. The kids are already subjected to this at a young age, so I don't understand your concern?
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Fr. Steve O'Brien
I don't have all the answers......no one does. The one thing I know beyond any doubt is that Jesus loves Savannah and so do I. God bless you, Savannah! I have faith in you.
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Rev. Cindy
I could not agree more
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Bill Herring
Though it was not Gods intention for us to turn out like we did . The bible says we are to love one another as God loves us .
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Jason Subbie
Well said.
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Rev. Cindy
Very true
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Gallet Christ Sampu
Brothers and sisters , my question is why we are in the world living? ''It Is written: My people perish because running out of knowledge! Let be all together and pray for the just cause of acceptance, because the Master who is in Heaven has a Spirit of Tolerance, so in field let all weeds growth all together(Bad ,Good) and in a proper timing when the field will ready the Master will devise the good from the bad , for us let all be all together according to our mission each one. May God bless all of you. So let ear more !!!!!
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claimyourpowerblog
Affirming someone’s inherent goodness allows you to feel compassion for the suffering that person is creating, for himself or herself and everyone else involved, out of ignorance of the truth. As a result of such an affirmation, you become more interested in dispelling ignorance and healing those involved than judging or punishing the wrongdoer. The human condition is such that you are not able to choose well because you don’t understand who you really are and what is needed to find true happiness. You make choices that bring suffering to yourself and others. But this is all part of your spiritual evolution. No one ever became enlightened who wasn’t first lost in the illusion of separation and hurting himself or herself and others. Everyone passes through this stage in evolution, and the responsibility falls on those who’ve already passed this way to help those who lack understanding.
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Tim
A few thoughts: Being gay, not gay or whatever, as long as there is no harm to others, who cares? With that said, in my opinion, there were two screw-ups here. First of all I highly doubt that NO ONE know she was going to do this. This kid is 12, and should have been counseled as to what she was going to do. This was an ADULT action, not something a 12 year should be doing in public; except for attention seeking behavior, there was no point to it. This girl was asking for a headache to be delivered by some closed minded people, and she received it. She should have been counseled better. SHE IS 12!!! Not an adult. Secondly, the Mormon church needs to be more open minded or do not set themselves up for situations like this; if they are not prepared to handle situations like this, then they should not allow these situations to happen. They Mormon church is a private "corporation" for a lack of better terms, and if they do not want this going on, then do not allow it; but don't allow it then whine when things do not go your way. But in the end, this is a CHILD, not an adult; she should be handled tenderly, like a child should be; and not be permitted to do this on such a large scale, it will only cause her problems from morons. And it did.
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Gallet Christ Sampu
Tim , I agree your consent of conception of things . But we must acknowledge it is written '' Nothing will be hidden any more and '' sons and daughters will prophesy, adult will see dreams, and youth will see visions
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Jason Subbie
I think she was brave. She stood in front of her congregation, told them who she was, and they should have supported her. Would you shun your child for being something that a 3000 year old book tells you is wrong? I wouldn't be able to. It's not what a parent, or decent human being should do. We are supposed to love and accept our fellow man, woman, and "other." Love is love, our children are precious, and we should cherish the limited time we get to spend with them.
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Coop a Loop
Regardless of your position on it, she invited a friend to film it and immediately posted it to the internet. This reeks of trying to start a scandal for publicity and money.
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jeremy cloward
Im afraid you are sorely mistaken. She asked her friend to film it, for personal reasons and to archive something historically in her own life. It was a very spiritual moment for her. It was the treatment she got that caused her friend to post it online. They were not asking for the scandal, believe me. She never thought it would go this big. However it did, and I support her all the way on this one.
I am a very outspoken Mormon Gnostic, fighting this issue. She isnt into it for the money, or the fame, I know how she has baid a considerable price for this, but for you to accuse her of trying to do this for the fame and money, then I will tell you it is nothing of the sort. Her motives were clear, to state that she was gay, and that god loves her, she never needed to say god "Still" loves her, because god would not hold this into some sort of condition for his love for anyone.-
Scott Barton
Just a reminder. We are spirit not the body. Form may seem to vary but the message is the same. Love is true worship of God. There is no fear in God. All attack is one's denial of God or another way to think about it is denial of the self that God created. Truth needs no defense to be itself. It is either recognized or not. Peace.
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Cindy
Ty Rev Jeremy for standing by this young lady!!
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Secretary3rd
It might be that at her age she made a statment to say that she did not want to have a dozen children. Not good for a religion that needs a large number of children to spread their message. Something that ever religion has a problem with if enough women decide that they do not want to bred that religion dies out. What happens to a God when there are not enough people who cares about it. They die, fade from memory, become old. Lose a place in history.
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jeremy cloward
A few more words, then I will probably sign out of this convo. First of all, I went to Harvard Divinity school, I studied the bible, not just to find truth from it, but I learned so much truth about it. Doing so, really allowed me to toss so much of it out as garbage. Deuteronomy was not written by Moses, had nothing to do with Moses, it appeared first instance ever in 2 Chronicles 24, when the priests delivered a bogus book to a young impressionable King Josiah, in order to re create a nationalist state, following some bizarre religious laws. The God Deuteronomy was a bastard, and thats ok to say that, he never existed. THAT BOOK IS NOT OF GOD, and I can do that with so much of the bible. Learn the truth ABOUT the bible first, before you try to get the truth FROM the bible, otherwise we are all just pharisees, picking and choosing what we like when we read it, but have to ignore so much else in other chapters.
Now, I am protecting this girl, proudly, standing out there with a nasty battle axe ready to party violently. She has been very brave, and unless you know what she has faced, and is still having to face in the years to come living in the Mormon culture, unless you know her personally, and what she has been feeling, fearing, dreading, loving, and crying over through this, then I ask you please find silence and bless us all with it. I want to protect Savannah so much, but I know that I can't always do that. I became a minister here in this church, because of the great acceptance I saw. I never thought I would have to protect her, defend her or anyone like her here. Shame on all of you. I support open dialogue, but apparently not enough people here know anything of which they speak. She will continue to be hurt, slated, called names, marginalized through her life, but she will continue, she knows nothing else now, she will never need to worry about if she will be loved if she comes out. She is going to tread waters that so many others have, and done well, in spite of how others think God should love her.
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Reverend Ray Marshall.
At 12 years old no one is mature enough to decide what there sexual orientation is! The church was right to silence this person.
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Jim D.
My heart breaks for this little girl. I think what she did took a lot of guts. The guy that cut her off and told her to sit down is a douche bag. I won't blame the Mormon church. There are douche bags like this guy in every religion (some have even posted to this forum). This kind of discrimination won't change until we walk away from the douche bags and find another church to go to. Eventually there will be a huge group of tolerant, accepting people and a small group of douche bags. Soon after, the douche bags will die out.
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Rev. Jeff Ross
Savanna-it's fine to be gay. It's not fine to be stupid.
Your parents are beyond dumb for not preparing you for the reality of your choice to SPEAK.
In speaking-you FORCED your people to deal with your life choice regarding sex. Why is it their job to know you like carpet rather than hardwood flooring? They've got their OWN sins to worry about...and you spewing your feelings ENCOURAGES them to spew theirs.
They had to eat yours. And now, you have to eat theirs. Welcome to Earth.
Parents who allowed this? Get sterilized, you're too stupid to have more children.
Kid. You shared YOUR point-of-view, perhaps expecting acceptance? From humans?
What if THEIR point of view is NOT to accept it? If they can't or won't forgive you, does that EXCUSE you from being forgiving or accepting of THEIR life choice to reject you?
Did they come to you and fag-bash and tell you their life choice? Or did you come to them and cram your gay into their hearts and minds?
Your personal sex choices are just that. YOUR personal sex choices. NO ONE needs to know...but YOU needed to share.
The pastor of your church might really enjoy BDSM, but that's not for him to share unless he is: A) Seeking change-looking to be redeemed of his guilt through the grace of confession OR B) Seeking acceptance, allowance, and confirmation that his penchant to watch other men force dicks downs his wife's throat is fine by his peers.
At 12 years old, sex for you is forbidden--PERIOD. Morally. Legally. So it's NOT RELEVANT which gender you want - 6 years from now.
Your church was RIGHT to shut you down, and your parents offered you SHIT for guidance when they allowed you to speak on that subject publicly.
Be gay later, openly. But here's the bottom line. God made you a girl. Not a boy. Your brain is built differently than a boy. Biochemistry is WILDLY different from a boy. God doesn't MAKE mistakes...He creates all wonder & magic. Be gay. Enjoy the company and touch of women, that's fine. But you? Are NOT MALE. Even if you are boy-ish? Your WHOLE BODY is against you in your belief of male-ness. Be GAY. Don't be a DYKE. Dykes are fake, pretenders to a tradition and set of concepts their BIOLOGY will NEVER allow them to learn. Lessons boys learn by 10? Dykes will never, EVER learn. Be honestly gay. Dykes lie to themselves and others by pretending at something they CAN NOT BE. Like wearing my Iron Man Halloween costume EVERY DAY and saying I'm Tony Stark. Nope. If you cant grow hair on your TESTICLES? Don't insult the realities of men by pretending to understand it.
If you were in my church? I would have sat you down IMMEDIATELY. And if you were one of my daughters' friends? You'd never be allowed in her room again without supervision. Why? 1. You're far to open about sex. YOUR exploration into that subject will NOT influence my child in any way. 2. You're far too young & unwise to deal with that mature subject matter with maturity, 3. Your parents? Too stupid to teach you the ways of the people you live on Earth WITH, and you're likely to cause turmoil in YOUR search for human truths. Like you just did. You are 12. This is not your fault kid--your 'rents should be slapped for this. SHIT parenting. Read the teachings of Buddha. It will make you a better Christian. You? Are Saved By GRACE. You are washed CLEAN of sin by the death of Christ. The Father will welcome you alongside the redeemed murderer, rapist, preacher, saint, and yes--even dyke. And yes, even Marge and Joe Mormon who treat you like SHIT now? They'll be there too. Washed clean of their sins against YOU by the same blood which saves you, child. Be 12. Worry about what gender you wanna fuck whenever that suits you, but keep that to yourself and FEW TRUSTED confidants until you're at least 16. And tell your parents anytime they want to learn how to be parents that are worth a shit to email Rev. Jeff.
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Cindy
I am speechless at your post. Your tone and your use of words.
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Anan Rivera
Dearest Savanna, ( and any other boy or girl going through this trial)
My beloved Child of God. You are loved, a precious gem in God's crown. We human beings have struggle for millions of years with our shortcomings and emotions towards our fellow men. Even withing our own families, communities and churches. It's human condition. It does not matter which God you pray to, which holy book you reference, the hand of man has left a solid print in it. For that same reason, social and moral constructs change over time. ( example: in ancient times it was ok to sell your daughter into slavery ! (Leviticus))
Love on the other hand is timeless my beloved child. As a former Latter Day Saint I know how important it was for you to share your testimony on that Sunday morning dear. Few people from the outside could understand this. Let them be uncomfortable. This means you hit a cord in their hearts. As Christians or followers of Christ is easier to judge and preach than to actually be the word of God. To be yourself, to love others as they are, as God love us, is very hard. I know. But not impossible. You have your whole life ahead of you to figure out your place in life and who you will share your rest of your life with. But don t let the opinion of flawed, sadden, confused people to sway you away from the loving embrace of God. Many, if not most, think that the bible only references homosexuality as a sin. That is not true. One of the lesser known stories in the bible gives us a beautiful love story.( 1 Samuel )
As we are made of clay we have flaws. As we were given the divine breath of God We are called his children.
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jeremy cloward
I can pass this on to her if you wish.
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Bill Fox
She is old enough to understand the consequences of her actions. She can choose to the Mormon or choose to be gay. Whether or not she can control her sexual feelings, she can control her conduct.
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Mitzi
GOD lives in us, as us. We were created in HIS likeness. Where in that does anyone hear judgement? HE did/does not create mistakes!
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Joanne Martin
I think this little girl is very brave and has obviously been raised to be self assured and confident. On the matter of the church and their opposition, I just have to say that sometimes we need to practice and celebrate our faith outside the 4 walls of a house of worship. They can chastise her and evict her from their church but no one can stop you from practicing and holding onto your faith as you know it.
However, I do think 12 is a confusing age and so much is going on. Especially with girl because they find a bound and closeness with their girlfriends that can easily be mistaken as a love that they are not equip to understand yet. These are the years where you start to figure out who you are and not to say some people dont know right away, but it almost every person alive, one time or another, thought and questioned themselves. Its a natural part of sexual development and at 12 years old the love you feel for others should not be confused with the intimate and sexual love you will feel for someone else in the future.
Whether she continues and really has the answer to her sexuality or not, she is still a very brave girl who hopefully at least makes it easier for other pre-teens and teens to have these conversations with their parents or whomever they can confide in because it is a confusing time and we should be giving our kids the power to ask questions and get help through some of the confusion.
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James.ULC
And a little child will lead you off a cliff.
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jeremy cloward
Interesting you feel that way, care to expand sir? I know this girl and her family, I saw them this weekend. When you say "little child" you must only mean because she is short (she is very short). She is anything but a young naive kid taken by every whim. She is very aware of herself, and what is going on inside of her, and around her, well, immediately around her. She has no idea its gone this far, and that so many people are talking about her like this.
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Li
Goodness how many people claim to following a loving God and then turn around and do something like this? Even if she was influenced by the media (which doesn't happen), her peers (again, doesn't happen), or "the Gay Agenda" (which doesn't exist), she's a young girl discovering herself.
If she's shot down and censored for something like this, nothing good can come of it in either direction. She'll feel as if she can't be open to her own congregation, her own community. Children who receive reactions such as this tend to end up one of two ways. They bottle up their feelings, develop depression, and become untrusting of others. Or, on the other end, they could hold onto that moment and not allow themselves to explore further, and if there's more to the equation like if they've bisexual or demisexual, they start to resent that and repress it because of their assurance that they're something else, to the point where an identity crisis is as common as a show on television.
Silencing a child like this has no positive outcome and anyone who does so should feel ashamed in themselves for being directly responsible for halting their development as a person.
And on the note I've frequently seen about her being too young, don't fool yourselves. Children understand sexuality better than adults, they've not had years of ingrained bigotry and misconceptions programmed into them, they just understand that it's a thing that exists as well as breathing or that the sun is warm.
For those that were too lazy to read it all, trust the children, support the children, because if you don't nothing good will come, you'll only bring unnecessary stress and anguish that will persist throughout that child's life.
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Nix
My heart hurts for this brave little girl
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Gallet Christ Sampu
Tolerance and admission are permitted in these matters!!! The Field is not yet ready, let the bad seed (weeds)and good seed growth all together and it is written to be all together until when the right time will face. so We don't have to judge but by having a spirit of understanding according to our own faith , peace of mind will be with us. so don't anymore be trouble for the little girl because she was right to claim the truth!!! May God blesse all of you!!!
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Sandy
Poor child-- pouring her heart out to people that she reveres and trusts,only to be basically slapped in the face and embarrassed in church! I don't think her mother should have permitted her to do that at only 12 years old! Hopefully, she hasn't had any sexual experiences being that young-- I actually think it could be a phase at her age-- when I was her age, I had a couple of friends that thought they were probably gay, but it was only an experimental phase, and when they hit puberty they changed their minds completely-- I don't think her parents should have let her expose herself as of yet, I only think they made the situation worse and probably regressed the child even more--
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Rev Marti
I think the title "sexual orientation" is the key to the debate. It is much more than sex and certainly more than being "oriented" in a sexual practice. When I was very young I felt boys were my friends and girls stimulated my heart. It is not a choice unless you are bisexual. If I asked you as a heterosexual person when was your "coming out date" to be straight it would startle you. That is what I feel when someone asked me when I decided to be a Lesbian. It wasn't a choice ever, but who I am.
There are many more ways I am like you than un-like you. I have hopes and dreams for a solid job, a consistent salary and good co-workers. I love to take vacations and enjoy time with my friends. I worked hard to earn my first home and have added to it over the years. I love having friends from all walks of life because I think our differences make us more interesting. Although I didn't choose to have children, I enjoy spending time with the children in my family and those of my friends. I enjoy good food, cooking and I love my little VW Beetle. I am a good student and enjoy learning. I was a good child to my parents, and loved and took care of them until they passed. My dogs are part of my family and they make my heart sing. I have enjoyed learning to play the guitar and also enjoy dancing and singing. I adore my wife and would do anything for her. All sound familiar? The only difference is our choice of partner.
As a young girl I found I could "love" boys, but it wasn't the same. When they touched me it felt foreign. I had not been sexually abused or had any circumstance that would have made me "gay." As a matter of fact, I never met anyone who identified as gay until I went to college. I tried very hard to date boys and even was engaged in college to an amazing man, but I just couldn't have sex with him. I would get to a point and be repulsed by the thought of it. Emotionally I connect with women on a whole other level, and it isn't about having sex. On some spiritual level I knew being straight was not the right choice for me and I had to stop fighting it or risk an unhappy life.
I was a youth pastor at my church in my early twenties, and didn't act on my emotional connection to women during that time. I went to graduate school in psychology to better understand the differences between mental illness and mental stability. I soon realized this is who I am, and had nothing to do with any notion my church told me made me inferior or a sinner. I prayed about it and studied it. I soon realized that many churches use this as a tool to convince women they should be married in a conventional manner and raise children. It fit in a nice and neat package for church doctrine, but certainly was distorted from the original text in the Bible.
The more you study the Bible and the more you read the opinions of Biblical scholars, you learn that a lot of church doctrine is created to shape our behavior in a likeness they want. We are motivated and controlled by what they think. It doesn't matter that a great deal of the books of the Bible contradict each other, and some were not even written at a time the translations would be deemed reliable. We accept a pastor's interpretation as fact and are discouraged from debate. One thing I love about the Jewish traditions...they always encourage debate in their quest to be one with God on a personal level. The Rabbi is considered fallible, but we think Christian ministers are the last and perfect word because they hold a Bible above their head.
I saw myself for a very long time as somehow inferior. I didn't want to mix with many people and felt there was something wrong with me, because they said that often in my church. I had two choices: allow the opinions of others to limit me, or to reject the thought that anyone was any better than me. Every once in awhile those old feelings seep back in and I have to remind myself that God made me as I am and that was perfect in every way. I am a child of the King, which makes me special in my own right.
Many of the people who are writing here are rather closed-minded, which I find unbelievable. Did you take the time to read what Universal Life Church is all about? It is inclusive and all-accepting. Isn't it a sin for you to belong if you aren't inclusive and all-accepting? My only hope is that you learn something from some of the comments. This isn't a traditional "Christian" Church. I think it is symptomatic of our relationship with organized religion. We assume it is all truthful and that everyone agrees to various judgments. Too sad.
This little Mormon girl came out because she is certain. Don't put words in her mouth or criticize her parents. Aren't you certain about being heterosexual? There is no difference in how we know. It is merely how you were born.
There is a big difference between someone questioning it and someone knowing it. I could have told my parents at age 7, but I didn't know what to call it. To make it clear to the woman who thinks it is wrong for her to state it, people who question whether they are or not are likely bi-sexual. Those who are truly LGBT know. There are some people who don't fully identify with one gender over the other. Please don't make up stories from your own experience when you aren't able to understand. Don't think because you don't feel it that it isn't real.
The sexual part is not the most important part, but a factor. The most important factor is that you feel, think and behave differently than your same sex friends, because you ARE born different. Don't give us reasons like "faults" in our DNA or that our mommies took some medication that screwed up our hormones. You can't understand what and who we are as people, so stop putting excuses, labels or judgments of us being inferior to you. Quite honestly, I can't imagine why a woman wants to be with a man...so that feeling works in reverse.
I don't want your "tolerance." What is there to tolerate? You don't need to accept me any more than I need to accept you. I don't need forgiveness from you, because the only forgiveness I need is from the Creator. But, it is not for the reasons you would give it. I don't believe in "sin" as you call it. Any "sinful nature" or behaviors are merely separation from God. I am very right with God, thank you very much. If you want to pray for me, pray for joy, happiness and God's pure Light, not my sexuality. You will never need to worry about it because I don't intend to engage you in it any more than you want me in yours.
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claimyourpowerblog
Beautiful. Thank you for your intelligent contribution to the debate! I value your perspectives, and wish for peace and happiness to fill your path!
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angel
So, quick question. If the soul is genderless and the only thing that dictates our gender is the body, then why are we so concerned about the body dictating what is inside the soul?
Even at younger than 12, many children know that there is something different about them. With the help of loving, acceptable parents, they are able to understand what this difference. Whatever age they are, once they know that they fit into the LGBTQ category, they should be able to come out with acceptance from their friends and the public. I know that if I were to tell my church that I am a lesbian, there would be problems. I have come out to part of my family and received acceptance. I am lucky in this way. Had I discovered this when I was a teenager, I would have been afraid to tell my parents. I know that my father especially would not be accepting. My mother might have been sympathetic, but she always went along with my father's decisions. All churchs should be accepting. I wish mine were.
you want to be gay? fine but you sound like a moron
Really, Rob? Is name calling all you learned from studying Jesus' words? Shame on you. Your dismissive remark indicates fearful ignorance on your part and adds to the burden of rejection placed on the LGBTQ community.
God's word is specific about certain sinners that won't be accepted into heaven. It will be interesting to hear what the type of persons live the type of lifestyles they choose to live and how they intend to respond to Jesus Christ on judgement day. For a list of these lifestyles anyone can find them in Paul's letter to the Corinthians. Ch.6:9+10, As for being "born" that way. Study Romans Ch.1 21-27. Vs. 24-27 explains why men desire men and women desire women which is contrary to the way God created all men and women.
Ricky - a quick lesson on the culture and historicity of the bible:
Regarding 1Cor 6:9-10: As of KJV1611, it does NOT mention the term "homosexual" at all. That is a recent addition to the text, not in the earlier writings.
Regarding Romans 1:26-: That was Saul/Paul writing about an ancient fertility ritual to the goddess Diana for increased fertility of livestock and increased crops for the upcoming year. This ceremony of sorts would end in a massive orgy. THAT is what he was writing about when he states "unnatural use" - nothing about homosexuality.
No, ALL men and women are NOT heterosexual. It is not a choice, but a hormonal influence during prenatal development, as found by extensive research at Northwestern University, University of North Dakota, numerous research universities in England, Japan and in Scandinavia.
Do you remember a time until fairly recently when the church, followed by educators and parents, would do everything they could to keep their children from being left-handed, including binding their hands so they would use only their right hand? It is the same issue - a church derived "evil" because left-handed people are called "sinister." (Check your dictionary and the etymology of the term, if you do not believe me.)
Good for you, Barbara, to say this!
You are heartless. Only a monster tells a twelve year old she "sounds like a moron".
Heartless? But Americans are such "Good people"! Religion has killed humanity! Religion is an abomination of hate guilt and cruelty! The only time Jesus went to church was to kick out all the hypocrites!~ A God of love? Only if you are STRAIGHT WHITE MAINSTREAM CHRISTIAN! Land of tolerance? NOT!
A person doesn't "want" to be gay. They are made that way. And that means they are created that way and the Creator doesn't make junk or throw-away people. And before you lambast me, I am a 71 year old straight great-grandmother. If you claim to believe in a loving Creator then you must accept ALL of the Creator's creations, even those you do not understand.
Thank you Karen
I believe that God does not make mistakes . ( accept maybe the platypus) I believe in a God that loves all of us sinners. That is not to say he likes everything we do,say , or think.But still loves us ." Let he who is without sin , cast the frist stone" Just a thought.
Rev. Jon July 5, 2017 at 3:06 pm
” 'Let he who is without sin , cast the frist stone' Just a thought."
In its creation, the platypus was asked about looks, it thought God said books and replied, "Give me a funny one."
God Bless you mama I have to agree with you 100%
To Norma Battes Rock on!
Wow, With age comes wisdom, Most sensible thing I have read for a long time
Amen
Just a few questions. 1. Does God create murderers or child molesters or is that created by society? My thought is it's the same with homosexuality. We aren't suppose to judge, but we are responsible for the world which creates such abominations. Also, 2. If a 12 year old boy had gotten up in front of his church to talk about his future loving relationship with a woman would it have been appropriate? Some things shouldn't be announced in front of a religious congregation even if it is the truth.
Dani, I actually believe that all of our fates are deiced and determined before wee even are born into this lifetime. If you do not believe in reincarnation then my explanation if this will bring n even more outrageous comments. So for now I will leave it at just that.everything that happens while in human form is a direct result f either own own Karma not taken care of in a past life and sometimes it is necessary t go throughout become a certain kind of "human" person as a way of carrying out the karmic energy needed for another one of our "soul mates" (nothing to do with any kind of intimate relationship as often referred) Just as and FYI...I in no way can not explain my understanding of this and would gladly share information respectfully with anyone who wants, just dont like to send this post off on all kinds of off the topic directions.
So just like we live in "free will" it is also inevitable the reason for our existence here is to carry out certain elements of life and some are nto so appealing but we can not fully the reason this was chosen for us and we agreed to go through intl we leave the human wold yet another time and we come back to a full and compete understanding.
However if you consider that reincarnation is possible I can give examples including a 2 year old who has never played an instrument, yet watches someone play just once and sits up on the bench and plays like a master. Or a child who finds themselves Obsessed with historical events such as the Titanic sinking or the Civil War and before they can even read for themselves they know and can report of these events in a way that could never have been read in any text.
To me this is proof of past life memories. or subconscious holds all out old memories and even the future ones too. Like when you have a dream and you know it was about someone but when you recall the dream you realize you knew it was them but now thinking about it, it didnt look like them. Well in sleep, the subconscious takes over sometimes confuses one of your soul mates for a way we knew them in another life which is why we recognize them in the dream but not during recall.
These phenomenon...like the 2 year old musical prodigy is an example of the subconscious not quite turning over completely to the new life and past memories linger and allow these kind of miracles to happen. well then to see a persons sexuality and anything more then exactly a part of them as anyone elses sexuality is. In each life we share ot with the same souls that follow us through all of our lives, which s why sometimes you just meet a person and get a feeling about them with nothing to base it on but its a strong recognition...well its your subconscious trying to remember how you feel connected to them. however in one life I could be your mom and in the next I could be you male cousin or best friend. The only time our sex comes into play is in human state. Well if memories of past talents stick around and the only time are sexuality is even considered anything si once we are on earth then wouldnt it reason that maybe even tho they have come back as a woman in this life, that maybe they were male in their last life and it was just a forgotten part of that lifetime that was mot switched over when returning. Its not a mistake or a defect, infact I think it is the sign of a strong mind since it could be not be totally restarted when returning. your attraction...and adult sexual attraction,not just the ability to recognize beauty in another person regardless of sex, or a preteen confusion regarding the closeness she has to a girlfriend as the same kind of love....comes with you at birth...it is the same lind of reason why one person prefers blonds and some like big guys and some like little guys. We are born with our sexuality but it is not completely understood or should be a concern for any kid until well past 12. Infact a child under the age of like 14 or 15 that finds their sexuality to be such a focus you will usually find some kind of abuse or feeling of neglect and thats how they are searching to feel better....
We'll I'm trans mtg that make me wrong from time I was around 9 I knew I was diffrent I felt things on a diffrent scale still God gave me courage to come out was I accepted by all no I was shined by people I cared about but I'm still me
Richard Transgender is different than being gay. Identifying as Transgender makes me surprised that I have to explain that
Dani - the difference is that to be a child molester or murderer is a choice. Homoexuality is NOT a choice, but a condition which is developed during prenatal development stages. Your "argument" is flawed with inaccurate claims of comparison.
Karen, well said! God is love
Rob - One does not WANT to be heterosexual or homosexual. It is not a "choice" but a hormonal drive. Why would anyone "choose to be gay" when it only leads to intense harassment, shunned, experiencing discrimination to a point of assault and in some cases, murdering of the person who happens to be homosexual.
For a 12 yr old to declare she is 'gay' cant be credible.At 12 notions of sexuality should be years away. Time enough for that when she reaches 'age of consent' She will now be vulnerable to older same sex predators and from a legal point of view bears close watching to ensure she is not exploited.. Perhaps she did this to 'shock' the congregation? Who ,knows? I wish her well..
There is a reason we have laws to protect our children. The jaded world they live in is confusing. At her age she doesn't understand the implications of what she is saying and may ever not be aware of what sex is. I thank God in heaven her community was able to stop this if her parents agreed with what she was doing they should not have children. We are supposed to protect our young from the deviate behavior of the wold. This is as the crimes of sex trafficking in this country. A 12 year old is a minor and not responsible or knowledgeable enough to make these decisions on what their sexual preference is. Anyone that thinks they are is a pedophile. These people will see punishment from God for all the perversions they have produced in this world. This is why Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed by God. We have been given free will and left to our own counsel by God. But we have to remember we are responsible for the sins we teach others to commit. "Amen"
Publicly shaming children isn't protecting them. It is very damaging to children to let them attempt to be vulnerable and then shut them down like that. She might never share her concerns again, which will make it very difficult to guide her in a very dangerous world.
This has my curiosity though: it's my general experience that children don't get an opportunity at a lectern unless it's been cleared with the church leader anyhow. If the entire congregation isn't the best forum for this, then a smaller roomful of church leaders and close family could've sufficed.. however clearly this was initially sanctioned to start.
Regardless of our interpretations of what is right and good for her, I think we all can agree that the inconsistency in that church's leadership has failed to guide her.
Sharing testimony is nit clesred by church officials first so they likely had no clue. All are welconed to speak as they feel conpelled but not necessarily finish as this rudeness demonstrated
Laws to protect children? Depends on who's children! WAKE UP! You people were serving up Indian children as PIZZA for centuries and no one cared! It happens to some White children and suddenly its "cry me a river"! Being human isn't "deviant" unless it one isn't like YOU! There really is no such thing as deviant sex, just different flavors! And Sodom and Gomorra was destroyed for being inhospitable guests! NOT because of being gay! Do your research and stop spreading your bigot trash! STOP twisting your bible to fit your agenda of hate!
I meant to say they (Sodom and Gomorrah) were inhospitable HOSTS! they were in hospitable to their guests1 That Sid a law of the land there! Be Hospitable to your guests!
You obviously know nothing about the LDS Church (Mormon). LDS believe children come of reason at the age of 8 and from then on are responsible for their own actions. So a 12 year old is old enough to decide if she is homosexual. The Church's reaction is no surprise. It is antiquated to say the least. The Church still promotes marriage at an early age; women staying at home to have children; and men being the head of the household and making all the major decisions while supporting his family. In polygamous clans girls are married as early as 10 years of age. The LDS Church view towards homosexuals is cruel. The policy of "you can be homosexual, just don't act on it" is like saying "you can be straight but don't act on it." The LDS Church is intolerant in many ways and open in others. The best thing for this young girl would be to leave the church and find a more tolerant group to be with. But the church is extremely cruel to those who leave, "banishing" them and ordering all their friends and family to do the same. That is why many gay people never come out in the LDS Church. This young girl was very brave but she is going to have a hard road ahead of her if she remains LDS. I'm glad her family stands with her and loves her. They too will be challenged and encoruraged to send their daughter to the damaging clinic run by Mormons to turn gays into heterosexuals causing lifelong damage. The LDS is not a believer in live and let live.
Lds do not encourage banishment of people who leave the church not once have i seen or heard it said to cut ties with someone who leaves the church and in actuality missionaries frequently try to get them to reestablish ties if they left for ressons other than nonhetero lifestyle
I have, in fact, seen just this behavior of the LDS. They do banish and counsel all family members to banish those who either decide to leave the church or are not "acceptable". TO say it doesn't happen smacks of a heartfelt hope or a blinkered view. Perhaps YOUR LDS community doesn't do such hateful things but I am here to say that others do.
Eric I have a dear friend who was raised in Utah, devote Mormon family. her 2 sisters both married very young and after very short courtships and my theory is it is the way to be able to act on their natural sexual desires without going against church law.
Well this friend of mine moved around a lot and due to the secrecy of the church and its happenings and because it was embedded into her she still had a hard time revealing much about the religion that she seemed to have left behind.
She went home for a trip and adorned herself with her sacred undergarments and prepared for church with her family. When she approach she was asked by one of the church elders to please leave the premises (she was living with her boyfriend/later husband her in MA and apparently they found out) and was also asked to remove the undergarments and have them returned to the church.
So like any congregation, I guess it is up to the church elders to decide and maybe some are less stringent than others.
GOD has called me into HIS Ministry. Jesus is the only one who can help us humanity to get things right in this world we live. The Holy Spirit is here to help us to stay sealed in Jesus. It is coming to a day that every knee will bow to GOD and confess with their mouth that GOD is GOD all be HIMSELF. HE (GOD) does not need a human being to make HIM, GOD. The young person that stated that she was gay; she needs to repent of being gay. I still have love for her because Christ Jesus came into this world just for her and others, to help her to change from such a life. I had to repent myself from my sin against GOD. My heart goes out to her to change. I will be praying for her to change her life from living a gay life, to living a life for GOD by receiving Jesus as her personal Savior. I pray that GOD will bless her soul.
From Ministry Spencer.
This is one of the best comments and word of encouragement I have heard so far. You did not judge or condemn her.
Well worded thank you for not adding to the cruelty
Jesus spoke of tolerance and love for everyone...EVERYONE. Never did HE say that we should repent for things we cannot help. HE spoke of love- of self and of others. This sweet child has nothing to repent for but the judgmental men and women who claim to speak in God's name have much to repent for.
Thank you!!!!
Amen. Jesus said suffer the little children to come unto me for such is the kingdom of GOD. Let GOD be the judge rather than man.Our thoughts and prayers be with this young person as she goes forward.
Spencer - It seems you think that being homosexual is a choice and not developed before a child is even born. If this is what you think, please tell us when you CHOSE to be heterosexual.
This young girl may be living a life for God by, as you say, receiving Jesus as her personal savior. She just happens to have developed prenatally into being homosexual. Are you going to then admit that maybe you do not understand the process of where homosexuality comes? If you are unknowing, please study, but don't condemn someone because they are homosexual and you do not understand your own holy writings.
At what age did you decide to like girls?
HA, I did not DECIDE to like girls, I just one day realized that Belinda Carlisle singing 'Mad about you" was far more interesting than playing Gi-Joes. Simple, I like girls, I never decided it. I never "Decided" to love my wife, I just DID, it happened, it was what I felt, and was overcome with love, and understanding, (and yes sexual attraction). Decision to love her, makes no sense. Deciding to make efforts to try and convince her to marry me, yes, that was an active decision, loving her, was not.
So you are saying that your sexuality was not a choice, it simply was.
Rev. Joseph, we do not protect our children. This person, if she committed she would be charged as an adult. Sir help me understand how one minute a minor is not knowledgeable, then in the next thought moment they are a full fledged adult. Re: Sodom & Gomorrah was destroyed for being inhospitable, as per the Talmud.
If she committed what? It is EXTREMELY RARE that a 12 year old would be charged as an adult. Tradition common law states that no one under 14 can be charged with criminal intent. However there are a few few rare cases and these usually involve vicious murders, mutilation or something along those lines. i.e. an 11 year old boy shoots an 8 year old boy in the face with his fathers shot gun after he asked to see the boys puppy and he said no.
only 14 of the 50 states have no written documented law stating the age at which a child has to be to be considered an adult.
Most of these kids who would commit such ruthless acts need intense monitoring and psychological care. I have never heard of a child, even charged as an adult, getting life without parole. But they need more rehabilitation then letting them free onto the streets in 5 years when they are 18 and considered an adult and that is when they consider whether they should be charges as an adult.
Its a little off subject but where it ties in is that if we spent more time protecting our kids and nurturing their self confidence and self esteem and took more responsibility for their development then there would not be a need to charge a child as an adult. So it starts with protecting...
If "your" GOD does not want this, then why does "your" GOD keep creating straight people that continue to have GAY children. It just IS,, so accept it, and stop making this about religion,, because it is NOT.
Michael, The letter written by Paul to the Romans first chapter explains why men and women desire the same sex. Specifically vs 21-27. This might help you to understand this misconception that ppl. are "born" this way. It is a choice everyone makes.
Ricky, your ignorance is breath-taking. So, you as a straight male (I assume) "decided" to be straight - it had nothing to do with your innate desires. By that logic, you could just as easily have decided to be gay. I'm assuming you made your choice before becoming a Biblical scholar, so at what age did you sit down and say, "Hmmm. I can be straight, or I can be gay. Which should I choose?"
I do agree that she is too young to know the difference between loving your girlfriend and the kind of sexual, intimate love she will experience as she gets older.
My son is 12 and he came home from basketball practice and said he needed to have a talk with me. Well we sat down and with tears in his eyes he told me he thinks he is gay. I had the whole talk with him . that I will love you no mater what I just want you to be happy yadda yadda....well when I asked him when he decided this (since he has been flirting and loving the ladies, usually teenagers, since he was 2 I wondered where he suddenly realized this) he said while they were practice with his all boy basketball team he got an erection. I tried not to laugh but I asked if that was all...He looked confused and I restated that if he is gay then great I just want him to find someone to love who loves him back the same way and they make each other happy BUT if getting an erection means he is in love then as a pre-teen and teenager you are going to think you are in love with the wall, and the chair, and the lunch lady, and the dog......because you have many more random episodes of that coming your way. We hugged on it and he seemed relieved. He got the validation he needed from me that it is nothing wrong if you are gay, you are you but he is far to young to know yet and he may question it a few more times who knows but 12 is too young to understand the kind of love that defines your sexuality.
With that said, she at least showed courage and maybe it will at least let other ids know that they should be able to feel safe and talk about these kind of things with someone so maybe it can make this confusing time a little easier
Well said sister. Think of how many children assumed this and went on to live a homosexual lifestyle because they didn't have anyone to talk sensibly about this subject. Or the many who were molested and took on the sexuality of their molesters. We need to be more open to having dialogue with our children about sexuality, bottom line.
Joseph - If you had actually read the Bible in Genesis, you would know that Sodom & Gomorrah were destroyed, NOT because of homosexuality but because of inhospitality and rape. The Bible even states that the people of those supposed communities were warned by God before destroying them.
It's not easy being a Mormon especially if you're a woman and as a child that make you feel guilty about everything. We are not to judge only God and Jesus can judge us, I grew up in the Mormon church and I know how hard it is their is a made up Faith They believe that you're only path to heaven and buy your works not by the grace of God I give the girls got a credit to stand up in that atmosphere And say what she said coming from your heart if you've never had to stand up in a Mormon church and give your testimony to very difficult thing to do
So she was not wrong she was following her heart God bless you R
First and foremost Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for their iniquities (sins). The act of homosexuality is spoken about in the Bible as an abomination unto God. I do believe it is a sin to be with anyone of the same sex. It is asking to be sent to Hell, for you are defying God's word. There is a reason people feel uneasy about coming out. It is because down in their very core they know it to be wrong. There is a common saying out there that is so true, "God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve". Understand this, it is not a sin to have feelings, it is a sin to act upon feelings that are not righteous. Where do these feelings come from? Satan puts all forms of perversion into and around us. Satan has power in the world to test us and lead us astray. He constantly offers us instant gratification. I have a daughter that is gay, even though I love her. I pray for her to repent and walk away from that lifestyle. She will spend eternity in Hell if she doesn't. I would help her walk away from her sinful lifestyle, but not stay in it. One must turn to GOD for strength. One must follow God's will not Satan's illusions.
You want to be gay?!?! Is that really your question RDV, Tom??? I am not even sure how to word this in a way that can possibly come off compassionate for the ignorance in your question.
You dont want or not want to be anything, you just are who you are. You can want to hateful, you can want to be intolerant, and you can want to be judgmental but to be who your are is just being, nothing else.
Some men like heavy women, some men prefer blondes.....some women like big guys, some women like muscle heads....which one of these people sound like morons; the man who prefers blondes or the woman who likes heavy guys....because if the person you choose to love and the person you are attracted to makes you sound like a moron because it does not match the idea of who someone else believes you should be attracted to and love, then we should cover all the reason one person loves another.
She can want to live in a society and belong to a church that would welcome her with open arms and without judgement but who you are can not be expressed through do you want?
In fact that question alone is the only moronic thing I have read so far.....